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		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:What_is_going_on_in_the_world%3F</id>
		<title>RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?</title>
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		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* 3D printer and world hunger */&lt;/p&gt;
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Older archives: [[RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/0001|0001]] -- [[RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/0002|0002]] -- [[RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/0003|0003]] -- [[RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/0004|0004]] -- [[Template talk:According to|0005]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Knew we were coming to this ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/130420/no-miranda-rights-boston-suspect-sparks-debate#21 But it still doesn't make it any less palatable]. American citizen, no proven ties to foreign powers, domestic violence on domestic soil, and arrest made by police. The fact that enemy combatant status is even being considered is bad enough, but he's only being denied Miranda Rights? This is a horrible precedent. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 17:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What a sick joke. Fuck governments and cops [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 18:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The public safety exemption on Miranda rights is nothing to do with enemy combatants. It is for cases where a suspect has been caught but law enforcement believes a credible danger to the public still exists - eg. a bomb or an armed accomplice is still located somewhere. A failure to read someone their Miranda rights does not mean they lose those rights, it just means that any evidence obtained this way is still valid in court (as long as the court deems the &amp;quot;public safety&amp;quot; aspect to be credible). I don't however see how it applies in this circumstance. (Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, I'm a guitar player). [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 03:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I find this a bit puzzling.  If the actual rights covered in the Miranda statement are not being denied, why try to conceal them from the suspect?  It's not like he won't know he's being questioned by police, and everybody who's ever watched a cop show/movie would know the gist of what the rights are anyway. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 11:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's a bit like not putting &amp;quot;Contents may be hot&amp;quot; on a coffee-cup and being able to evade any liability for the numb-nuts who scald themselves. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 16:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The ultimate point of the Miranda Rights is that they have to be read ''if they want to use the interrogation as evidence in a court of law''. If they intend to use the interrogation for the court, which is unlikely considering the significant body of evidence present being likely to convict him already, then they would have to state the Miranda Rights if the public safety exemption is not active. The suspect has Miranda Rights, even if law enforcement has no intentions of using the interrogation as evidence; the police just do not have to remind the suspect about it if so. Even so, Fox News got into a big freak-out because they thought the guy would simply not talk if told hid Miranda Rights, which is not true as the case of the Central Park Five proved how it still was not enough to prevent people from confessing to crimes, even when they did not commit them and were informed of their Miranda Rights.[[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 01:31, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Today we learned that the FBI has no fucking idea what a WMD is.&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The FBI doesn't charge people with crimes. That's the job of federal prosecutors. Didn't you ever watch the opening of ''Law &amp;amp; Order''? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 19:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is a drone a WMD? Arrest Obama [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 19:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Neither a Hellfire-armed drone nor a cordite/shrapnel explosive is a [[WMD]]. --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 20:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is the argument here that the FBI/prosecutors &amp;quot;have no fucking idea&amp;quot; because they are applying the {{wpl|weapon of mass destruction #Criminal (civilian)|criminal law definition of WMD}} rather than the military one?  Because there's rather an obvious flaw in that argument. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:47, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I concur that argument. A quick search revealed that US Criminal Law has had this definition of WMD ever since 1994 in contrast to the popular definition of NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) weapons. Calling it stupid to use a legal definition instead of a popular definition is rather hypocritical considering the general abuse of the word &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; by the public at large despite its strict definition. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 22:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Using the legal definition rather makes the invasion of Iraq look extremely flimsy as I would imagine pretty much every country in the world (except, maybe, the Vatican or some teensy island states) has something of greater destructive power than a pressure cooker bomb. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 08:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Applying the criminal law definition in a military context would be about as silly as applying the military definition in a criminal law context. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 12:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone explain why there are two separate definitions of WMD in the first place? [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because different standards apply to what weapons a government can own and what weapons a private individual can? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 12:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Because one is a term used by lawyers in a criminal setting to describe particular illegal weapons; the other was a term that was largely made popular by politicians to cow people into supporting a war. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 12:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Context and audience make all the difference. (At first I mentally joined in the general what-the-fuckery, thinking the basic gpvernment issue fragmentation grenade/Mills bomb qualifies as a WMD, and there are plenty of those piled up here and there all over the place. Not my place, I hasten to add.) Sooner or later, some moonbat may use this [[equivocation]] to try and score some kind of points. Awaiting reports of such sightings, [[User:Sprocket J Cogswell|Sprocket J Cogswell]] ([[User talk:Sprocket J Cogswell|talk]]) 13:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::From what I understand, there are two (three if you count the FBI's extremely closely related definition to criminal law's definition) definitions of WMD used in US Law. WMD is not a term used in international treaties or international law, its usage as a technical term being exclusive to the US government. In the US Code applying to the military, a WMD is basically a NBC weapon. Criminal law's definition does include the traditional NBC weapons associated with WMDs but has one more category in the form of &amp;quot;any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title&amp;quot;. Destructive device is defined there as &amp;quot;any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas&amp;quot;. This definition having been around ever since 1994, it is actually older than the current popular usage of WMD, the current parlance having been popularized after the 2001 anthrax attacks that expanded the definition beyond nuclear weapons to include biological and chemical weapons. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 16:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Actually not. The use of WMD to refer to NBC weapons goes back to at least 1950 and probably earlier.--[[User:Fergus Mason|Fergus Mason &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - Anton Chekov&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:02, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== ADE 651 maker convicted ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22266051 Here on the BBC]. In my opinion he should be up for murder, or at least manslaughter, for selling the [[ADE-651]], a useless toy that he sold to gullible authorities, as a result of which innocent people were blown to pieces or had their lives ruined at best. [[User:Tombo1bo|Tombo1bo]] ([[User talk:Tombo1bo|talk]]) 17:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I presume you know the police said they didn't have solid evidence to prove that anyone had died as a result of a bomb not detected by these 'things'? I agree with you, btw [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 01:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I can understand their logic from the grounds of &amp;quot;Reasonable doubt&amp;quot;. Unless there's a case where one of those bombs went off as soon as someone using a ADE-651 said there were no bombs, they could say in court that the bomb was placed there after an inspection. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::That still leaves the possibility of a private prosecution. [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 08:18, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Do you mean a civil suit? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:36, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::No, a private prosecution. In England-and-Wales (not sure about Scotland), a private citizen can bring a criminal prosecution to court (though this is rare). The Crown Prosecution Service does, however, have discretion to take over a privately brought prosecution (and to drop the charges having done so). [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 08:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I've never heard of that before now. Learn something new everyday. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::They're very rare. Most of them are by entities that the average person doesn't even understand to be private organisations rather than government bodies, for example some animal cruelty cases are prosecuted by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which is technically just a charity but intentionally gives off the aura of an official body. The CPS &amp;quot;discretion&amp;quot; mentioned by Hydrogen is a legal dodge. In practice the CPS operates under a rule that says it applies the same tests to your private prosecution that it would apply to cases forwarded by the police or other agencies, it seizes control of the process and your evidence and it can then choose to give the evidence to the police to conduct their own investigation, discontinuing the prosecution, or bringing it in-house as a regular public prosecution. But the Supreme Court found that this dodge is enough, people still have the legal right to bring a private prosecution, it's just that unless the CPS would have prosecuted anyway there's no point because it'll never see court. So your legal rights aren't being infringed, they're just worthless now, a subtle distinction.  [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 00:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Is this the endgame for al-Assad? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If it does come back that he did gas civilians that is. Do you think the US will make good with the threat, and would you think it would be justified if they did? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 00:32, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:As usual, it's another grey area. But, seriously, another fucking war? Fuck war [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 01:41, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, but if US intervention ended the currently 2 year civil war, wouldn't that be better then letting it go for an unknown amount of years with WMDs being used? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 01:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Depends who ends up in power, doesn't it? If the alternative is ''another'' theocratic regime, like the ones who've taken over in Iraq, Egypt and Libya, then arguably a bit of gas can be forgiven easily enough.--[[User:Fergus Mason|Fergus Mason &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - Anton Chekov&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I think its a bit of a stretch to call Libya a Theocratic state. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 22:41, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm guessing Libya Part 2.  If it's confirmed, it will be difficult for Russia and China to veto another UNSC resolution again. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 01:45, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Not impossible though, especially as they won't want Nato sticking its beak in the region again [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 12:20, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There is absolutely zero chance of a substantial international military intervention in a country that borders Iraq, Israel and Lebanon (...especially as long as such country is supported by Iran). [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 15:53, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::The only way of doing it is if Turkey leads, NATO provides &amp;quot;support&amp;quot;, Russia and China smile and nod, and Israel twiddles its thumbs. Due to hearing some things which aren't in the press (possibly due to being married to a Turkish diplomat), I believe some efforts are being made in this direction. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::With 300,000 refugees and the threat of more, Turkey can make a case along the lines of Indian intervention in Bangladesh in 1971 (though the scale is totally different...) [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 23:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Domestic violence evictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wankers, from the cops to the council [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 12:19, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== That 'reparative therapy camp' story. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Seems the killer has [http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/camp-lieutenants-charged-after-farm-death-1.319740 serious] previous.  You wonder why he wasn't stopped 6 years ago really don't you? [[User:Oldusgitus|Oldusgitus]] ([[User talk:Oldusgitus|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maybe a little strong on the FUCK YOU CORNWALL!!! point? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am well aware the guy is a supreme scumbag but he got 335 votes all in all, which is hardly representative of cornish people, least of all the ones where I live (i.e. the same place he made those comments). Maybe a change of wording to aim it at those who support him rather than the entire county? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  21:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It was a Cornish electorate who voted him in, so it stays [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 22:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It was also an English electorate &amp;amp; a British one.  If you're going to direct a FUCK YOU to the whole of Cornwall based on the election result in one of its 123 council wards, then why not widen it to the whole country too? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:48, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I took the &amp;quot;fuck off&amp;quot; to be aimed at the people that didn't vote, seeing as if just 5-ish more people of a centrist bent had bothered then this hater might not be in. But such a grade-one twat is probably going to say something dumb again and so hopefully he'll be out again soon. BTW, anyone else see UKIP as Tories without a PR budget? [[Special:Contributions/94.76.252.237|94.76.252.237]] ([[User talk:94.76.252.237|talk]]) 08:15, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;Fucking pricks vote in fucking scumbag Cornwall electorate, fuck off&amp;quot; Is... sort of a shitty headline, overuse of the word fuck doesn't get the point across an y better. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 10:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well at lot of Cornish claim they're not English.  [[User:Bevo74|Bevo74]] ([[User talk:Bevo74|talk]]) 11:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And Jonathon Swift once proposed eating babies.  Do people not understand rhetorical points anymore?  The moment someone says anything that could be perceived as insensitive we are all required to jump up and down and yell and scream and shake with horror at the mere thought that someone could say something offensive?  And then when the seemingly able councillor gets re-elected we are required to condemn all of a county?  What a bunch of fucking baloney.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 12:01, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::So the bloke's a satirist in the class of Swift's ridiculing of the English Aristocracy? Is he fuck. He's a grade A twat who the tories had the decency (for once) to expel. Mostly valid points from people, but I'm apologising for nowt [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 21:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There is a spectrum of possibilities between being a great satirist and being someone who genuinely thinks disabled people should be put down.  It is amusing watching people who enjoy being offended though - some people don't quite feel alive unless they are indignant about something.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:21, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::See also [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1209921/What-prompted-comedians-tirade-old-schoolmate-Richard-Hammond.html this Daily Fail article], which seems to have happily missed off the point at the end of that routine where Stewart Lee says &amp;quot;I don't actually think this, I'm using rhetoric to demonstrate how people viewing politically incorrect jokes as 'funny' are wrong. I'm sorry I have to break character to explain this, but I don't want someone in the Daily Mail taking this out of context&amp;quot;. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''postate''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 09:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Could be I'm one of them. Anyway, on reflection, I do apologise to the people of Cornwall who think the bloke's a twat; that'll be most of 'em, then [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 22:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Got to have something to keep the mind alive I guess.  Personally I follow sport, but moral indignation is, no doubt, a worthy substitute.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::Here are another couple of examples of people getting kicks from being intentionally offended [http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8513218/Sterilise-smokers-comment-outrage] [http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/offended-so-what-just-get-on-with-it-20130404-2ha2o.html#ixzz2PWkNd7df].  I wonder what it would be like to go through life getting riled up by this sort of stuff?  --[[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 00:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::There's a slight difference between [http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110223.gif &amp;quot;I'm offended&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;it's offensive&amp;quot;].  [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''postate''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 09:01, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;I knew something was wrong when a pretty little white girl run into a black man's arms.&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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That guy made my day. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 13:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Riflemen in DC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If I was possessed with a sick mind, I'd hid a number of remote-controlled devices on the march route. They'd play a recording of a rifleshot at about the correct volume. If there were no police around, I'd trigger one as the group passed, and then the others at random. I wonder if I could get a 500-person Mexican stand-off? [[User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] ([[User talk:Csmiller|talk]]) 17:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I think you're possessed with a sick mind to have come up with that. Congratulations! [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''bomination''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Why, thank you! &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;typos in OP fixed&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; [[User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] ([[User talk:Csmiller|talk]]) 19:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;This will be a non-violent event, unless the government chooses to make it violent.&amp;quot; These people do not understand what civil disobedience is. If this march happens, I expect that innocents will be killed. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 18:21, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Arguably, a large crowd of armed men walking down the street is, in itself, an instance of violence, even if not a shot is fired. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 18:25, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Self-fulfilling prophecies, here at Rationalwiki! --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the police should give the [[wp:Active Denial System|Active Denial System]] a shot. Might not work, but hey, at least it would mean there's a chance of this not ending in a blood bath. [[User:ShadowFan-X|ShadowFan-X]] ([[User talk:ShadowFan-X|talk]]) 03:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Everyone here is aware that this is not illegal, and your still ask for the police to unleash the riot control weapons on them? Weren't you all criticizing Wingnuts who call for that on the OWS protesters? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 19:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Aren't firearms illegal in DC?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 21:07, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's called &amp;quot;hypocrisy&amp;quot; dear Revolverman. The same things that lets CP work are basically the same thing that lets RW work.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 21:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The last time I checked, Occupy Wall Street was not required to break laws from its inception. The criteria for OWS allowed for the protests to be done without breaking laws since OWS did not have criminal acts as a key part of its criteria. The criteria for this open carry march requires the protestors to open-carry in a district where it is illegal to do so. Regardless of whether you agree with OWS's politics or not, the criteria were such that protestors could do their protesting without committing felonies. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 22:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::So? Many protests ARE illegal because THATS THE POINT! Just because YOU disagree with the point of the protest doesn't mean it should be shut down. Thats the point I'm making. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 06:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::If your intention is specifically to violate the law (even to &amp;quot;make a point&amp;quot;) that's civil disobedience. It is reasonable to expect that you will be arrested and potentially imprisoned and that law enforcement will try to prevent you from &amp;quot;protesting&amp;quot; in this way. That is indeed the ''entire point'' of civil disobedience. The idea is that the general public sympathise with your plight. Obviously if your act of civil disobedience just makes people think you're a crazy person (e.g. you march around carrying a fucking gun in a place where guns are prohibited) then this won't work but I shouldn't need to explain that to anyone who actually believes in civil disobedience, it would really only come up if some entitled asshats think they have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to do whatever they want and people ought to respect them for breaking the law in principle.&lt;br /&gt;
::::For those watching at home, if you see somebody get arrested and they plead innocent, or try to invoke some ridiculous tax-protester logic like the courts don't have jurisdiction over them, they aren't involved in civil disobedience, they're just asshats. Civil disobedience is unapologetic, which means you'd plead ''guilty'' and take your 40 years hard labour or whatever the tariff is. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 07:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This does seem very ironic to me. I can see that they are trying to do civil disobedience trying to imitate MLK Jr., but the people whose idea of protesting involved open-carry were the Black Panthers. In particular, the proposed Mulford Act, which banned the open carry of loaded weapons in the state of California, was protested by the Black Panthers by the open carry of loaded weapons. I wonder why many people love Martin Luther King Jr.'s idea of protesting while being highly respectful and unintimidating and decidedly lacking firearms versus  why people are made uncomfortable by the sight of Black Panthers with their numerous guns and the mentions of revolution? I am not sure if this is related, but the Mulford Act quickly passed when Black Panthers showed-up open-carrying loaded rifles at the state capitol. Could the historical knowledge of people who think guns would have stopped the Holocaust be insufficient? [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 19:52, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Comparing LGBTQ to Slavers ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Molasses to Rum&amp;quot;... to Daiquiris? --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 21:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Effing alliums ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;Not The Onion&amp;quot; meme is incredibly hackneyed and guarantees a down vote from me. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 18:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm sorry? Besides, I personally almost never use it, but this one felt like it was justified as it was being reported by the BBC. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, I think it's terrible how many topics and WIGOs contain &amp;quot;not the onion.&amp;quot;  No shit it's not the Onion.  Just because a headline is odd or unexpected doesn't mean it's the Onion.  There should be an edit filter that filters out &amp;quot;not the Onion.&amp;quot;  Also, if anybdoy wants to know, allium is the genus for onions.  I had to look that up.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Onion is stupid anyhow, I've never cracked a smile at anything there. Using to it as a benchmark of some kind of inanity is rather silly. [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 21:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[http://www.theonion.com/articles/un-acquires-nuclear-weapon,2638/ Not even this?] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 21:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Pear-shaped nuclei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Writing like that makes me want to upvote something for the puns alone.  [[User:Wehpudicabok|Wehpudicabok]] ([[User talk:Wehpudicabok|talk]]) 08:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wonder if the downvoters are downvoting the story or my terrible fruit puns. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 14:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh sure. Do you really think RW lurkers are massive apes going &amp;quot;RARR! ME NO UNDER STAN SYENCE! SMASH! RARR!!&amp;quot;? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 14:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::A &amp;quot;the latter, idiot&amp;quot; would've sufficed. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::True, but I like this way better.[[User:Lady Corvex|Lady Corvex]] ([[User talk:Lady Corvex|talk]]) 16:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[[Lady Corvex]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tesla car ban sale ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The WIGO is misleading; the ban isn't on the sale of Tesla cars in general, it's on the sale of Tesla cars ''without going through a third party dealership''. There are tons of places that ban the sale of cars directly by the manufacturer, in order to protect the independent dealer (which is a crock, but that's a whole other thing). A lot of the hubbub around the Tesla bugs me because a lot of people think it's because the Tesla is an electric car and it's getting fucked over by oil companies and whatnot. That may be true to some extent, but the real reason there's been all kinds of restrictions and complaints about them is because Tesla sells direct to the consumer and cuts out the independent dealership, which is an incredibly powerful lobbying force since they comprise nearly 100% of automobile sales in the US. Basically [http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130511/02014623044/politicians-car-dealers-trying-to-make-it-illegal-to-buy-tesla-north-carolina.shtml they're freaking out because people might start wondering why all manufacturers don't do this]. [[User:X Stickman|X Stickman]] ([[User talk:X Stickman|talk]]) 18:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You cannot sell a Tesla in a showroom in Texas?  Huh. And here I thought Texas was the Land of Do-as-you-Please. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 19:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Once again, it is blatantly obvious that conservatives aren't about &amp;quot;small government&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;freedom&amp;quot;.  Every single time it boils down to corporate interests.  It reminds me of the NRA's response to that 3D-printed &amp;quot;Liberator&amp;quot; gun.  The NRA claims it's all about the 2nd Amendment and freedom and gun rights and blah blah.  They should LOVE the &amp;quot;Liberator&amp;quot;, right?  Wrong.  The NRA always was and always will be a lobby for major gun manufacturers, and they HATE the idea of consumer-produced guns.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 18:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::[http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/16/video-foxs-tesla-re-coil/194101 FOX cannot make up its mind about Tesla] --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 18:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 3D printer and world hunger ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't see how 3D printers will help world hunger in any way.  Unless you can turn sand to bread or broadcast a sandwich with it, a 3D printer is a useless middleman.  I'm unimpressed with 3D printers period.  I first saw them on the Colbert Report, where I thought, &amp;quot;what, because I need to make a wax bust of Stephen Colbert more than once in my lifetime?&amp;quot;  Sure, you can make the odd knickknack with one, but it's little more than a resource intensive novelty.  It's not a universal assembler.  It's not even close, and it's not even a precursor (assuming such a machine would even be possible)--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 23:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The article mentions that the use of powders would expand the number of nutrient-sources out of which it is possible to synthesize edible food (so you wouldn't need to rely on raising cattle for protein, rather than, say, a mosquito trap). That said, as I understand it, world hunger right now isn't being caused by a lack of food, but by how unevenly it's distributed, and this technology alone would do little to solve that.[[User:Lady Corvex|Lady Corvex]] ([[User talk:Lady Corvex|talk]]) 02:09, 22 May 2013 (UTC)Lady Corvex&lt;br /&gt;
::'''...world hunger right now isn't being caused by a lack of food, but by how unevenly it's distributed, and this technology alone would do little to solve that.''' True, but it's so much easier to pretend that these disparities don't exist and prattle on about how quick techno-fixes and the [[invisible hand|free market fairy]] will fix everything at some unspecified point in the future. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 03:42, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Clearly, since you hate 3-D printers so much, you've never done any sort of prototyping. Anybody whose ever had to design something or invent something or test something for prototype would tell you that, sometimes, being able to create scale models of things (in this case, with a 3-D printer) is invaluable. Especially when you're talking about projects where you might have to invest millions (or, even, billion) of dollars in revenue, only to find out it doesn't work as well as you'd hoped. In those circumstances, being able to print out small, plastic test models with an initial investment of a few thousand dollars is worth it. Don't believe me? I've seen real life uses of 3-D printers in various design engineering environments. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 14:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:What_is_going_on_in_the_world%3F</id>
		<title>RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:What_is_going_on_in_the_world%3F"/>
				<updated>2013-05-22T14:59:21Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* 3D printer and world hunger */&lt;/p&gt;
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== Knew we were coming to this ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/130420/no-miranda-rights-boston-suspect-sparks-debate#21 But it still doesn't make it any less palatable]. American citizen, no proven ties to foreign powers, domestic violence on domestic soil, and arrest made by police. The fact that enemy combatant status is even being considered is bad enough, but he's only being denied Miranda Rights? This is a horrible precedent. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 17:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What a sick joke. Fuck governments and cops [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 18:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The public safety exemption on Miranda rights is nothing to do with enemy combatants. It is for cases where a suspect has been caught but law enforcement believes a credible danger to the public still exists - eg. a bomb or an armed accomplice is still located somewhere. A failure to read someone their Miranda rights does not mean they lose those rights, it just means that any evidence obtained this way is still valid in court (as long as the court deems the &amp;quot;public safety&amp;quot; aspect to be credible). I don't however see how it applies in this circumstance. (Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer, I'm a guitar player). [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 03:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I find this a bit puzzling.  If the actual rights covered in the Miranda statement are not being denied, why try to conceal them from the suspect?  It's not like he won't know he's being questioned by police, and everybody who's ever watched a cop show/movie would know the gist of what the rights are anyway. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 11:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's a bit like not putting &amp;quot;Contents may be hot&amp;quot; on a coffee-cup and being able to evade any liability for the numb-nuts who scald themselves. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 16:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The ultimate point of the Miranda Rights is that they have to be read ''if they want to use the interrogation as evidence in a court of law''. If they intend to use the interrogation for the court, which is unlikely considering the significant body of evidence present being likely to convict him already, then they would have to state the Miranda Rights if the public safety exemption is not active. The suspect has Miranda Rights, even if law enforcement has no intentions of using the interrogation as evidence; the police just do not have to remind the suspect about it if so. Even so, Fox News got into a big freak-out because they thought the guy would simply not talk if told hid Miranda Rights, which is not true as the case of the Central Park Five proved how it still was not enough to prevent people from confessing to crimes, even when they did not commit them and were informed of their Miranda Rights.[[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 01:31, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Today we learned that the FBI has no fucking idea what a WMD is.&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The FBI doesn't charge people with crimes. That's the job of federal prosecutors. Didn't you ever watch the opening of ''Law &amp;amp; Order''? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 19:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is a drone a WMD? Arrest Obama [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 19:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Neither a Hellfire-armed drone nor a cordite/shrapnel explosive is a [[WMD]]. --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 20:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Is the argument here that the FBI/prosecutors &amp;quot;have no fucking idea&amp;quot; because they are applying the {{wpl|weapon of mass destruction #Criminal (civilian)|criminal law definition of WMD}} rather than the military one?  Because there's rather an obvious flaw in that argument. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:47, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I concur that argument. A quick search revealed that US Criminal Law has had this definition of WMD ever since 1994 in contrast to the popular definition of NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) weapons. Calling it stupid to use a legal definition instead of a popular definition is rather hypocritical considering the general abuse of the word &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; by the public at large despite its strict definition. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 22:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Using the legal definition rather makes the invasion of Iraq look extremely flimsy as I would imagine pretty much every country in the world (except, maybe, the Vatican or some teensy island states) has something of greater destructive power than a pressure cooker bomb. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 08:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Applying the criminal law definition in a military context would be about as silly as applying the military definition in a criminal law context. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 12:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone explain why there are two separate definitions of WMD in the first place? [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because different standards apply to what weapons a government can own and what weapons a private individual can? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 12:52, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Because one is a term used by lawyers in a criminal setting to describe particular illegal weapons; the other was a term that was largely made popular by politicians to cow people into supporting a war. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 12:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Context and audience make all the difference. (At first I mentally joined in the general what-the-fuckery, thinking the basic gpvernment issue fragmentation grenade/Mills bomb qualifies as a WMD, and there are plenty of those piled up here and there all over the place. Not my place, I hasten to add.) Sooner or later, some moonbat may use this [[equivocation]] to try and score some kind of points. Awaiting reports of such sightings, [[User:Sprocket J Cogswell|Sprocket J Cogswell]] ([[User talk:Sprocket J Cogswell|talk]]) 13:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::From what I understand, there are two (three if you count the FBI's extremely closely related definition to criminal law's definition) definitions of WMD used in US Law. WMD is not a term used in international treaties or international law, its usage as a technical term being exclusive to the US government. In the US Code applying to the military, a WMD is basically a NBC weapon. Criminal law's definition does include the traditional NBC weapons associated with WMDs but has one more category in the form of &amp;quot;any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title&amp;quot;. Destructive device is defined there as &amp;quot;any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas&amp;quot;. This definition having been around ever since 1994, it is actually older than the current popular usage of WMD, the current parlance having been popularized after the 2001 anthrax attacks that expanded the definition beyond nuclear weapons to include biological and chemical weapons. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 16:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Actually not. The use of WMD to refer to NBC weapons goes back to at least 1950 and probably earlier.--[[User:Fergus Mason|Fergus Mason &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - Anton Chekov&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:02, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== ADE 651 maker convicted ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22266051 Here on the BBC]. In my opinion he should be up for murder, or at least manslaughter, for selling the [[ADE-651]], a useless toy that he sold to gullible authorities, as a result of which innocent people were blown to pieces or had their lives ruined at best. [[User:Tombo1bo|Tombo1bo]] ([[User talk:Tombo1bo|talk]]) 17:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I presume you know the police said they didn't have solid evidence to prove that anyone had died as a result of a bomb not detected by these 'things'? I agree with you, btw [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 01:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I can understand their logic from the grounds of &amp;quot;Reasonable doubt&amp;quot;. Unless there's a case where one of those bombs went off as soon as someone using a ADE-651 said there were no bombs, they could say in court that the bomb was placed there after an inspection. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::That still leaves the possibility of a private prosecution. [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 08:18, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Do you mean a civil suit? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:36, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::No, a private prosecution. In England-and-Wales (not sure about Scotland), a private citizen can bring a criminal prosecution to court (though this is rare). The Crown Prosecution Service does, however, have discretion to take over a privately brought prosecution (and to drop the charges having done so). [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 08:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I've never heard of that before now. Learn something new everyday. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::They're very rare. Most of them are by entities that the average person doesn't even understand to be private organisations rather than government bodies, for example some animal cruelty cases are prosecuted by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which is technically just a charity but intentionally gives off the aura of an official body. The CPS &amp;quot;discretion&amp;quot; mentioned by Hydrogen is a legal dodge. In practice the CPS operates under a rule that says it applies the same tests to your private prosecution that it would apply to cases forwarded by the police or other agencies, it seizes control of the process and your evidence and it can then choose to give the evidence to the police to conduct their own investigation, discontinuing the prosecution, or bringing it in-house as a regular public prosecution. But the Supreme Court found that this dodge is enough, people still have the legal right to bring a private prosecution, it's just that unless the CPS would have prosecuted anyway there's no point because it'll never see court. So your legal rights aren't being infringed, they're just worthless now, a subtle distinction.  [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 00:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Is this the endgame for al-Assad? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If it does come back that he did gas civilians that is. Do you think the US will make good with the threat, and would you think it would be justified if they did? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 00:32, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:As usual, it's another grey area. But, seriously, another fucking war? Fuck war [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 01:41, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, but if US intervention ended the currently 2 year civil war, wouldn't that be better then letting it go for an unknown amount of years with WMDs being used? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 01:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Depends who ends up in power, doesn't it? If the alternative is ''another'' theocratic regime, like the ones who've taken over in Iraq, Egypt and Libya, then arguably a bit of gas can be forgiven easily enough.--[[User:Fergus Mason|Fergus Mason &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - Anton Chekov&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I think its a bit of a stretch to call Libya a Theocratic state. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 22:41, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm guessing Libya Part 2.  If it's confirmed, it will be difficult for Russia and China to veto another UNSC resolution again. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 01:45, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Not impossible though, especially as they won't want Nato sticking its beak in the region again [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 12:20, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There is absolutely zero chance of a substantial international military intervention in a country that borders Iraq, Israel and Lebanon (...especially as long as such country is supported by Iran). [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 15:53, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::The only way of doing it is if Turkey leads, NATO provides &amp;quot;support&amp;quot;, Russia and China smile and nod, and Israel twiddles its thumbs. Due to hearing some things which aren't in the press (possibly due to being married to a Turkish diplomat), I believe some efforts are being made in this direction. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::With 300,000 refugees and the threat of more, Turkey can make a case along the lines of Indian intervention in Bangladesh in 1971 (though the scale is totally different...) [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 23:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Domestic violence evictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wankers, from the cops to the council [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 12:19, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== That 'reparative therapy camp' story. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Seems the killer has [http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/camp-lieutenants-charged-after-farm-death-1.319740 serious] previous.  You wonder why he wasn't stopped 6 years ago really don't you? [[User:Oldusgitus|Oldusgitus]] ([[User talk:Oldusgitus|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maybe a little strong on the FUCK YOU CORNWALL!!! point? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I am well aware the guy is a supreme scumbag but he got 335 votes all in all, which is hardly representative of cornish people, least of all the ones where I live (i.e. the same place he made those comments). Maybe a change of wording to aim it at those who support him rather than the entire county? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  21:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It was a Cornish electorate who voted him in, so it stays [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 22:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It was also an English electorate &amp;amp; a British one.  If you're going to direct a FUCK YOU to the whole of Cornwall based on the election result in one of its 123 council wards, then why not widen it to the whole country too? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:48, 3 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I took the &amp;quot;fuck off&amp;quot; to be aimed at the people that didn't vote, seeing as if just 5-ish more people of a centrist bent had bothered then this hater might not be in. But such a grade-one twat is probably going to say something dumb again and so hopefully he'll be out again soon. BTW, anyone else see UKIP as Tories without a PR budget? [[Special:Contributions/94.76.252.237|94.76.252.237]] ([[User talk:94.76.252.237|talk]]) 08:15, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;Fucking pricks vote in fucking scumbag Cornwall electorate, fuck off&amp;quot; Is... sort of a shitty headline, overuse of the word fuck doesn't get the point across an y better. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 10:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Well at lot of Cornish claim they're not English.  [[User:Bevo74|Bevo74]] ([[User talk:Bevo74|talk]]) 11:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And Jonathon Swift once proposed eating babies.  Do people not understand rhetorical points anymore?  The moment someone says anything that could be perceived as insensitive we are all required to jump up and down and yell and scream and shake with horror at the mere thought that someone could say something offensive?  And then when the seemingly able councillor gets re-elected we are required to condemn all of a county?  What a bunch of fucking baloney.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 12:01, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::So the bloke's a satirist in the class of Swift's ridiculing of the English Aristocracy? Is he fuck. He's a grade A twat who the tories had the decency (for once) to expel. Mostly valid points from people, but I'm apologising for nowt [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 21:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There is a spectrum of possibilities between being a great satirist and being someone who genuinely thinks disabled people should be put down.  It is amusing watching people who enjoy being offended though - some people don't quite feel alive unless they are indignant about something.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:21, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::See also [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1209921/What-prompted-comedians-tirade-old-schoolmate-Richard-Hammond.html this Daily Fail article], which seems to have happily missed off the point at the end of that routine where Stewart Lee says &amp;quot;I don't actually think this, I'm using rhetoric to demonstrate how people viewing politically incorrect jokes as 'funny' are wrong. I'm sorry I have to break character to explain this, but I don't want someone in the Daily Mail taking this out of context&amp;quot;. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''postate''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 09:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Could be I'm one of them. Anyway, on reflection, I do apologise to the people of Cornwall who think the bloke's a twat; that'll be most of 'em, then [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 22:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Got to have something to keep the mind alive I guess.  Personally I follow sport, but moral indignation is, no doubt, a worthy substitute.  [[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::Here are another couple of examples of people getting kicks from being intentionally offended [http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8513218/Sterilise-smokers-comment-outrage] [http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/offended-so-what-just-get-on-with-it-20130404-2ha2o.html#ixzz2PWkNd7df].  I wonder what it would be like to go through life getting riled up by this sort of stuff?  --[[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 00:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::There's a slight difference between [http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110223.gif &amp;quot;I'm offended&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;it's offensive&amp;quot;].  [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''postate''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 09:01, 5 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;I knew something was wrong when a pretty little white girl run into a black man's arms.&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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That guy made my day. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 13:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Riflemen in DC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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If I was possessed with a sick mind, I'd hid a number of remote-controlled devices on the march route. They'd play a recording of a rifleshot at about the correct volume. If there were no police around, I'd trigger one as the group passed, and then the others at random. I wonder if I could get a 500-person Mexican stand-off? [[User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] ([[User talk:Csmiller|talk]]) 17:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I think you're possessed with a sick mind to have come up with that. Congratulations! [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''bomination''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:27, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Why, thank you! &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;typos in OP fixed&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; [[User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] ([[User talk:Csmiller|talk]]) 19:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;This will be a non-violent event, unless the government chooses to make it violent.&amp;quot; These people do not understand what civil disobedience is. If this march happens, I expect that innocents will be killed. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 18:21, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Arguably, a large crowd of armed men walking down the street is, in itself, an instance of violence, even if not a shot is fired. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 18:25, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Self-fulfilling prophecies, here at Rationalwiki! --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think the police should give the [[wp:Active Denial System|Active Denial System]] a shot. Might not work, but hey, at least it would mean there's a chance of this not ending in a blood bath. [[User:ShadowFan-X|ShadowFan-X]] ([[User talk:ShadowFan-X|talk]]) 03:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Everyone here is aware that this is not illegal, and your still ask for the police to unleash the riot control weapons on them? Weren't you all criticizing Wingnuts who call for that on the OWS protesters? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 19:33, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Aren't firearms illegal in DC?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 21:07, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's called &amp;quot;hypocrisy&amp;quot; dear Revolverman. The same things that lets CP work are basically the same thing that lets RW work.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 21:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The last time I checked, Occupy Wall Street was not required to break laws from its inception. The criteria for OWS allowed for the protests to be done without breaking laws since OWS did not have criminal acts as a key part of its criteria. The criteria for this open carry march requires the protestors to open-carry in a district where it is illegal to do so. Regardless of whether you agree with OWS's politics or not, the criteria were such that protestors could do their protesting without committing felonies. [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 22:31, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::So? Many protests ARE illegal because THATS THE POINT! Just because YOU disagree with the point of the protest doesn't mean it should be shut down. Thats the point I'm making. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 06:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::If your intention is specifically to violate the law (even to &amp;quot;make a point&amp;quot;) that's civil disobedience. It is reasonable to expect that you will be arrested and potentially imprisoned and that law enforcement will try to prevent you from &amp;quot;protesting&amp;quot; in this way. That is indeed the ''entire point'' of civil disobedience. The idea is that the general public sympathise with your plight. Obviously if your act of civil disobedience just makes people think you're a crazy person (e.g. you march around carrying a fucking gun in a place where guns are prohibited) then this won't work but I shouldn't need to explain that to anyone who actually believes in civil disobedience, it would really only come up if some entitled asshats think they have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to do whatever they want and people ought to respect them for breaking the law in principle.&lt;br /&gt;
::::For those watching at home, if you see somebody get arrested and they plead innocent, or try to invoke some ridiculous tax-protester logic like the courts don't have jurisdiction over them, they aren't involved in civil disobedience, they're just asshats. Civil disobedience is unapologetic, which means you'd plead ''guilty'' and take your 40 years hard labour or whatever the tariff is. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 07:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This does seem very ironic to me. I can see that they are trying to do civil disobedience trying to imitate MLK Jr., but the people whose idea of protesting involved open-carry were the Black Panthers. In particular, the proposed Mulford Act, which banned the open carry of loaded weapons in the state of California, was protested by the Black Panthers by the open carry of loaded weapons. I wonder why many people love Martin Luther King Jr.'s idea of protesting while being highly respectful and unintimidating and decidedly lacking firearms versus  why people are made uncomfortable by the sight of Black Panthers with their numerous guns and the mentions of revolution? I am not sure if this is related, but the Mulford Act quickly passed when Black Panthers showed-up open-carrying loaded rifles at the state capitol. Could the historical knowledge of people who think guns would have stopped the Holocaust be insufficient? [[User:Crow7878|Crow7878]] ([[User talk:Crow7878|talk]]) 19:52, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Comparing LGBTQ to Slavers ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Molasses to Rum&amp;quot;... to Daiquiris? --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 21:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Effing alliums ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The &amp;quot;Not The Onion&amp;quot; meme is incredibly hackneyed and guarantees a down vote from me. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 18:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm sorry? Besides, I personally almost never use it, but this one felt like it was justified as it was being reported by the BBC. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, I think it's terrible how many topics and WIGOs contain &amp;quot;not the onion.&amp;quot;  No shit it's not the Onion.  Just because a headline is odd or unexpected doesn't mean it's the Onion.  There should be an edit filter that filters out &amp;quot;not the Onion.&amp;quot;  Also, if anybdoy wants to know, allium is the genus for onions.  I had to look that up.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Onion is stupid anyhow, I've never cracked a smile at anything there. Using to it as a benchmark of some kind of inanity is rather silly. [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 21:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[http://www.theonion.com/articles/un-acquires-nuclear-weapon,2638/ Not even this?] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 21:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Pear-shaped nuclei ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Writing like that makes me want to upvote something for the puns alone.  [[User:Wehpudicabok|Wehpudicabok]] ([[User talk:Wehpudicabok|talk]]) 08:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I wonder if the downvoters are downvoting the story or my terrible fruit puns. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 14:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh sure. Do you really think RW lurkers are massive apes going &amp;quot;RARR! ME NO UNDER STAN SYENCE! SMASH! RARR!!&amp;quot;? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 14:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::A &amp;quot;the latter, idiot&amp;quot; would've sufficed. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::True, but I like this way better.[[User:Lady Corvex|Lady Corvex]] ([[User talk:Lady Corvex|talk]]) 16:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[[Lady Corvex]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tesla car ban sale ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The WIGO is misleading; the ban isn't on the sale of Tesla cars in general, it's on the sale of Tesla cars ''without going through a third party dealership''. There are tons of places that ban the sale of cars directly by the manufacturer, in order to protect the independent dealer (which is a crock, but that's a whole other thing). A lot of the hubbub around the Tesla bugs me because a lot of people think it's because the Tesla is an electric car and it's getting fucked over by oil companies and whatnot. That may be true to some extent, but the real reason there's been all kinds of restrictions and complaints about them is because Tesla sells direct to the consumer and cuts out the independent dealership, which is an incredibly powerful lobbying force since they comprise nearly 100% of automobile sales in the US. Basically [http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130511/02014623044/politicians-car-dealers-trying-to-make-it-illegal-to-buy-tesla-north-carolina.shtml they're freaking out because people might start wondering why all manufacturers don't do this]. [[User:X Stickman|X Stickman]] ([[User talk:X Stickman|talk]]) 18:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You cannot sell a Tesla in a showroom in Texas?  Huh. And here I thought Texas was the Land of Do-as-you-Please. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 19:18, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Once again, it is blatantly obvious that conservatives aren't about &amp;quot;small government&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;freedom&amp;quot;.  Every single time it boils down to corporate interests.  It reminds me of the NRA's response to that 3D-printed &amp;quot;Liberator&amp;quot; gun.  The NRA claims it's all about the 2nd Amendment and freedom and gun rights and blah blah.  They should LOVE the &amp;quot;Liberator&amp;quot;, right?  Wrong.  The NRA always was and always will be a lobby for major gun manufacturers, and they HATE the idea of consumer-produced guns.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 18:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::[http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/16/video-foxs-tesla-re-coil/194101 FOX cannot make up its mind about Tesla] --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 18:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== 3D printer and world hunger ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't see how 3D printers will help world hunger in any way.  Unless you can turn sand to bread or broadcast a sandwich with it, a 3D printer is a useless middleman.  I'm unimpressed with 3D printers period.  I first saw them on the Colbert Report, where I thought, &amp;quot;what, because I need to make a wax bust of Stephen Colbert more than once in my lifetime?&amp;quot;  Sure, you can make the odd knickknack with one, but it's little more than a resource intensive novelty.  It's not a universal assembler.  It's not even close, and it's not even a precursor (assuming such a machine would even be possible)--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 23:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The article mentions that the use of powders would expand the number of nutrient-sources out of which it is possible to synthesize edible food (so you wouldn't need to rely on raising cattle for protein, rather than, say, a mosquito trap). That said, as I understand it, world hunger right now isn't being caused by a lack of food, but by how unevenly it's distributed, and this technology alone would do little to solve that.[[User:Lady Corvex|Lady Corvex]] ([[User talk:Lady Corvex|talk]]) 02:09, 22 May 2013 (UTC)Lady Corvex&lt;br /&gt;
::'''...world hunger right now isn't being caused by a lack of food, but by how unevenly it's distributed, and this technology alone would do little to solve that.''' True, but it's so much easier to pretend that these disparities don't exist and prattle on about how quick techno-fixes and the [[invisible hand|free market fairy]] will fix everything at some unspecified point in the future. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 03:42, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Clearly, since you hate 3-D printers so much, you've never done any sort of prototyping. Anybody whose ever had to design something or invent something or test something for prototype would tell you that, sometimes, being able to create scale models of things (in this case, with a 3-D printer) is invaluable. Especially when you're talking about projects where you might have to invest millions (or, even, billion) of dollars in revenue, only to find out it doesn't work as well as you'd hoped. In those circumstances, being able to print out small, plastic test models with an initial investment of a few thousand dollars is worth it. Don't believe me? I've seen real life uses of 3-D printers in various design engineering environments. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 14:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

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		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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				<updated>2013-05-22T10:01:50Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */ Re-wording a little. It's 5:00 a.m. Forgive me for being Ken&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
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–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more that for there to be a case dismissal or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::From someone outside the US, are there different laws for consent between heterosexual and homosexual couples, or is it that the state is being very selective in its prosecutions? Or is it that most parents don't pursue charges when their daughter sleeps with a guy? [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The laws of consent are gender-neutral; they apply equally regardless of sexual preference. From what I understand off of what I've heard and read, the laws are set up the way they are so that, if I am over 18 years old, I can't use my age, intellect, and influence to to groom or coerce a minor into having sex with me (like what a pedophile would do). Romeo laws, from what I've heard anyways, can be applied to these circumstances provided that 1) the age difference doesn't exceed a certain span (4 years by Florida law) and 2) the parents/guardians of the younger child or the child themselves don't file statutory rape charges. Thus, from what I've been led to understand, what caused this case to be prosecuted as statutory rape is not the relationship itself, but that the parents of the younger girl filed charges. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What on earth is horrible about a purity ball? It's just people working to uphold their personal and religious values. It doesn't affect anyone else in any way. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement</id>
		<title>The Zeitgeist Movement</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement"/>
				<updated>2013-05-22T09:56:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Undo revision 1196280 by 120.148.129.52 (talk) Was better before&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{politics}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''The Zeitgeist Movement''' is a grass-roots &amp;quot;organization&amp;quot; promoting a change&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/mission-statement&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; in the current spirit of the time (hence the name &amp;quot;The Zeitgeist Movement&amp;quot;) that was formed in response to Peter Joseph's ''[[Zeitgeist: Addendum]]'' documentary. Basically a modern re-hash of the [[Technocracy movement]], their ideas are derived from multiple sources, primarily [[The Venus Project]] and [[Buckminster Fuller]]. Indeed, the movement's ''Activist Orientation Guide'' defines itself as 'the activist arm of the Venus Project'. ([http://lazeitgeist.com/getfile.php?f=1 PDF] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvTzxI8Ouk VIDEO]) They consider themselves to be a 'sustainability advocacy organization'.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The community is largely concentrated on the internet and have their own live broadcasting shows.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.blogtalkradio.com/zmglobal/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.zbnlive.com/shows/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Organization ==&lt;br /&gt;
The Zeitgeist movement is organised into various different 'chapters' across more than 50 different countries, though just how active these chapters are is probably only known to those involved in them &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and differs greatly from chapter to chapter. Even though recordings of most chapter meetings are freely available online, where all types of chapter related matters like activity are discussed. A quick glance at some chapter websites reveals they have at least some presence in certain University societies and at the local level. Nevertheless, most of their forum posting seems to be discussions about the movement's philosophy and what activists intend to do in the near future. It is however difficult to measure if the movement achieves its goals seeing their sole intention is to be an educational movement&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.tzmeducation.org/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and 'spread awareness', one could suspect they do seeing new chapters are added on a monthly basis (see chapter list on the website) and the userbase on the different facebook pages&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.facebook.com/tzmglobal/likes?ref=ts&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; show an increase.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In a sentence ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The organization is basically undirected whining about capitalism, a belief that somehow computers should do all future resource planning, and that shortly robots will be doing all the work - in summary, standard techno-utopianism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/ Zeitgeist Movement homepage]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Zeitgeist Movement, The}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Environmentalism]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

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		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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				<updated>2013-05-22T09:55:46Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more that for there to be a case dismissal or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::From someone outside the US, are there different laws for consent between heterosexual and homosexual couples, or is it that the state is being very selective in its prosecutions? Or is it that most parents don't pursue charges when their daughter sleeps with a guy? [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The laws of consent are gender-neutral; they apply equally regardless of sexual preference. From what I understand off of what I've heard and read, the laws are set up the way they are so that, if I am over 18 years old, I can't use my age, intellect, and influence to to groom or coerce a minor into having sex with me (like what a pedophile would do). Romeo laws, from what I've heard anyways, can be applied to these circumstances provided that 1) the age difference doesn't exceed a certain span (4 years by Florida law) and 2) the parents/guardians of the younger child or the child themselves don't file statutory rape charges. Thus, from what I've been led to understand, what caused this case to become statutory rape is not the relationship itself, but that the parents of the younger girl filed charges. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What on earth is horrible about a purity ball? It's just people working to uphold their personal and religious values. It doesn't affect anyone else in any way. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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				<updated>2013-05-22T09:54:58Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */ or, not of&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more that for there to be a case dismissal or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::From someone outside the US, are there different laws for consent between heterosexual and homosexual couples, or is it that the state is being very selective in its prosecutions? Or is it that most parents don't pursue charges when their daughter sleeps with a guy? [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The laws of consent are gender-neutral; they apply equally regardless of sexual preference. From what I understand off of what I've heard and read, the laws are set up the way they are so that, if I am over 18 years old, I can't use my age, intellect, and influence to to groom or coerce a minor into having sex with me (like what a pedophile would do). Romeo laws, from what I've heard anyways, can be applied to these circumstances provided that 1) the age difference doesn't exceed a certain span (4 years by Florida law) and 2) the parents of the younger child or the child themselves don't file statutory rape charges. Thus, from what I've been led to understand, what caused this case to become statutory rape is not the relationship itself, but that the parents of the younger girl filed charges. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What on earth is horrible about a purity ball? It's just people working to uphold their personal and religious values. It doesn't affect anyone else in any way. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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				<updated>2013-05-22T09:54:17Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */ From my understanding, anyways. I could be wrong.&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
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–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more that for there to be a case dismissal or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::From someone outside the US, are there different laws for consent between heterosexual and homosexual couples, or is it that the state is being very selective in its prosecutions? Or is it that most parents don't pursue charges when their daughter sleeps with a guy? [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The laws of consent are gender-neutral; they apply equally regardless of sexual preference. From what I understand off of what I've heard and read, the laws are set up the way they are so that, if I am over 18 years old, I can't use my age, intellect, and influence to to groom or coerce a minor into having sex with me (like what a pedophile would do). Romeo laws, from what I've heard anyways, can be applied to these circumstances provided that 1) the age difference doesn't exceed a certain span (4 years by Florida law) and 2) the parents of the younger child of the child themselves don't file statutory rape charges. Thus, from what I've been led to understand, what caused this case to become statutory rape is not the relationship itself, but that the parents of the younger girl filed charges. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What on earth is horrible about a purity ball? It's just people working to uphold their personal and religious values. It doesn't affect anyone else in any way. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
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		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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				<updated>2013-05-22T09:11:50Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */ Better&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
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–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more that for there to be a case dismissal or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Noetic_science</id>
		<title>Noetic science</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Noetic_science"/>
				<updated>2013-05-22T09:09:47Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Undo revision 1196274 by 106.197.187.211 (talk) Nope, it's bullshit&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{pseudosciencenav}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Noetic science''' is a form of [[bullshit]] famously promoted by [[Dan Brown]] in ''[[The Lost Symbol]]''. It should be noted that noetic &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; and noetic philosophy are distinct. Noetic (from the Greek ''noetikos'', &amp;quot;mental&amp;quot;) philosophy is philosophy dealing with the mind, intellect, or consciousness. However, this more often goes under the more obvious name of &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;[[philosophy of mind]]&amp;quot; these days. Noetic &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; is closer to the pseudoscience of [[parapsychology]] and other such [[New Age]] fluff as &amp;quot;[[not even wrong|expanding your consciousness]].&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Institute of Noetic Sciences==&lt;br /&gt;
The Institute of Noetic Sciences is the primary outlet for this form of [[woo]]. It was co-founded by former astronaut Edgar Mitchell and former Exxon executive and crank billionaire Paul N. Temple, who is also associated with the [[fundamentalist]] [[Christian]] organization [[The Family]]. According to the Institute:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|&amp;quot;Noetic sciences are explorations into the nature and potentials of consciousness using multiple ways of knowing—including intuition, feeling, reason, and the senses. Noetic sciences explore the &amp;quot;inner cosmos&amp;quot; of the mind (consciousness, soul, spirit) and how it relates to the &amp;quot;outer cosmos&amp;quot; of the physical world.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.noetic.org/about/what_is.cfm What is Noetic Science?] Institute of Noetic Science&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All of which sounds more like [[other ways of knowing]] than [[science]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unsurprisingly, noetic science has come under criticism from skeptics and actual scientists, and the organization Quackwatch has placed the Institute of Noetic Science on the &amp;quot;untrustworthy&amp;quot; list.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html Quackwatch - untrustworthy organisations]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Global Consciousness Project===&lt;br /&gt;
The Global Consciousness Project (GCP) is more or less the [[Parapsychology#Specific programs|PEAR project]] applied on a global scale. The idea is that random number generators (RNG) run by GCP will be affected by the focused attention of many people or high emotions from a worldwide event (i.e., the alleged &amp;quot;global consciousness&amp;quot;). This essentially boils down to running a whole bunch of RNGs, waiting for a [[improbable things happen|spurious, statistically significant result]], and then claiming to have successfully detected a &amp;quot;great disturbance in The Force.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.skepdic.com/globalconsciousness.html Global Consciousness] in [[The Skeptic's Dictionary]]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.lfr.org/lfr/csl/library/Sep1101.pdf GCP: An Independent Analysis of the 11 September 2001 events], Edwin C. May and James P. Spottiswoode&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Impact of ''The Lost Symbol''==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the publication of Brown's book promoting noetic [[woo]] the institute has reported a twelve-fold increase in traffic to its web site and an increase in new members,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113676181 NPR - Woman Reads Dan Brown Novel, Discovers Herself]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; indicating that at least some people take Dan Brown's work seriously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Dean Radin]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Panpsychism]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Parapsychology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:New Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-05-22T09:06:38Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* This pisses me off */&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== UN Blue Helmets ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What is it with these reactionary/nativist/whatever they're called groups and UN blue helmets? I can't be the only one who has noticed that they don't like the UN in general, but I've found some some random militia groups and pages on facebook, and it's almost like they get off to this kind of thing. And when I say that, I mean they post pictures of blue helmets with bullet holes in them, do it yourself UN long range targets. They just discuss it regularly. It's very strange to me.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The UN is a overarching, supranational body that people think is part of the OWG and other conspiracies, thats why. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 04:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Because ''peace''keeping.  I would argue that the helmets need a darker shade of blue though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The UN is part of the [[New World Order|NWO]], duh. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It's an NWO versus national sovereignty thing, not so much the peacekeeping (although they are rather shitty ''at'' peaceekeeping, especially in Africa).--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 11:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, UN peacekeepers are just anybody else's troops except they've got blue hats. If the UN peacekeepers are US, they're US troops, but in blue hats. If they're Nigerian, they are Nigerians but in blue hats. You get what you (as a nation) are willing to pay for. A lot of the time in Africa they're African troops that are under-equipped and under-trained, but why are they African troops? Because nobody else would send enough troops.  I don't want to excuse anything that individual soldiers have done, but if you want to see a better quality of peacekeeping done, you're going to have to pay for that and there isn't much willingness especially when it comes to problems like Sudan which aren't a real threat to anyone but Sudan's neighbours. Suppose the UNMISS thing goes completely tits up, South Sudan is a war zone, neighbours are flooded with refugees, aid agencies have to evacuate, big mess. So what? Maybe oil prices wobble a bit, obviously all of Sudan's (and thus most of Africa's) disease eradication or control programmes blow out by another decade, millions of people die and so it's sad but it doesn't lose you many votes in New York or Berlin. [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 16:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[cp:Michael New]] may be of interest here.  Andy's World History course unbelievably (or believably, given that we're talking about Andy) [[Conservapedia:World_History_Lecture_Thirteen#Controversy_of_the_United_Nations_Troops|mentions him]] too. [[User:Godspeed|Godspeed]] ([[User talk:Godspeed|talk]]) 20:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Longtime part of the New World Order conspiracy theory.  The fear is that the U.N. has plans to militarily occupy the U.S. with blue-helmeted troops from a motley assortment of &amp;quot;global south&amp;quot; countries such as Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Nicaragua, and North-by-God-Korea.  Mostly brown people, onoz!  And the purpose of this is to (1) confiscate everyone's guns, and (2) impose a one-world government, ultimately so the Antichrist can force everybody to take the Mark of the Beast while blue-helmeted brown people behead anyone who refuses...[[Bullshit|blah blah blah]].  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 11:48, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There's no moment in life that can't be improved with beheadings --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 14:57, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sometimes I wish I was more comfortable with flying and owned a helicopter. That way I could paint it black and buzz the houses of crazy people. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Which is all good clean fun until one of them (crazy, remember) Second-Amendments a Stinger. [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 09:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dollars to donuts they'd blow themselves up with a Stinger if they tried to use one. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Feminists, every time I start gaining respect for your movement... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with 9 out of 10 things, but that other 10% has some of the craziest stuff I've ever seen, and it's completely shooting you in the foot.  I don't like the idea of condemning the movement, but this is the kind of stuff that keeps me away from.  It would do you a lot of good if you would disown these people as feminists.&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://img.sturmkrieg.com/forum/i/src/1368804588091.png Image of the Facebook discussion]&lt;br /&gt;
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–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::So you call that one FB post &amp;quot;10%&amp;quot; of feminism?  Quit the hate and embrace the positive before I start to doubt your alleged bona fides. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Uh-huh. You're aware that there is such a thing as sex-positive feminism, which is generally pretty accepting of porn and sex work as long as no one is being exploited against their will? [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 15:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, I am aware of that, which is why rational feminists should disown these lunatics.  This is also what makes Elise a raving, fanatical lunatic.  These people make me feel normal.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:^This. Also, hosting the image on your own site and putting it in as a URL? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Where should I put it?  Should I put in here so I can embed it, or is it not relevant enough? –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could use imgur, photobucket or tinypic like the average human being and [http://www.quizrocket.com/stupid-test link in text like as is always done on the site]. And what would you need as evidence that other feminists don't associate with these types? Their is no 'public disowning ritual' for feminism. There's no concrete record of [[Cathy Brennan]] being essentially tossed out of feminism but she sure as shit is not popular. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 15:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Well, I already have my own website to upload images, so I don't know why I would want to use another one.  Also, I added the text.  I realize there is no &amp;quot;public disowning ritual,&amp;quot; but other people in that same group could also not tolerate it, plus normal feminists could also be more open about condemning such craziness.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 15:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
What, exactly, in that exchange is so shocking to you? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The fact that it's insane, plus the MRAs are going to use it to claim that &amp;quot;all feminists&amp;quot; want to ban porn, which would inevitably cause more people to gather behind them, who don't already know that the MRA movement is entirely BS. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 16:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Exactly what quote is &amp;quot;insane&amp;quot;? And what, exactly, is wrong with opposing pornography? It's not a position I necessarily agree with, but I see a logic at work there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 16:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I hasten to add that someone can oppose &amp;quot;torture, abuse, and murder of women in porn&amp;quot; without opposing porn as a whole.  In fact, I will go so far as to say that is the opinion of most people. Unfortunately this Elise doesn't seem to be doing a good job of seperating the two ideas.  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 21:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It's basically what I'm suggesting.  Regulation would remove abuse.  Any abusive companies would be shut down.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 05:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::People who believe that the commodification of human sexuality is inherently abusive would argue that regulation is irrelevant. Also, BP hasn't been shut down. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 19:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Someone said something stupid on facebook, so I lost respect for everyone related to them.&amp;quot; You're fucking retarded, you know that? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Why don't the rational feminists speak up? [[wp:Feminist Sex Wars|Oh wait...]] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 19:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't cloud the discussion with facts. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 23:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This is tiresome indeed.  You're posting a screenshot of a discussion which starts with &amp;quot;thank you for sharing&amp;quot;, having cut off whatever is being shared, then most of the rest is you ranting &amp;amp; being vindictive. &amp;amp; Apparently this screenshot supports your argument that 10% of feminism is insane &amp;amp; feminists should &amp;quot;disown&amp;quot; each other? It's not much to go on, + you come off looking like a dick as usual. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 01:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Gloria Steinem]] opposes &amp;quot;pornography&amp;quot; - but she contrasts it with &amp;quot;eroticism&amp;quot;.  A lot of porn is the world's worst sex-ed. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Oh please. If you want to talk about the minority of feminists that make the whole movement look bad, it is not someone who cannot separate regular porn from snuff porn.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== the Geography of Hate ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# A group called &amp;quot;Floating Sheep&amp;quot; has created a kind of heat map] that basically shows where the most racist and discriminatory tweets are coming from. The density doesn't really suprise me. --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|accuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Addendum: [http://www.floatingsheep.org/2013/05/faq-geography-of-hate.html They also included a FAQ.] --[[User:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;TechCheese&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge|refuse]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Holy shit, Hood River, Oregon, what the hell is wrong with you.  The only big red dot in my state.  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 00:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yep.  The most concentrated source of racist tweets in the eastern U.S. is...Boyd Tavern, Virginia?  And for homophobic tweets...Romney, West Virgnia?  I'm guessing in all cases the source is but one person.  Doesn't exactly reflect well on this here neck o' the woods though. [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 01:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wyoming and Utah look pretty clean... '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk|}} 02:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Yeah what's up with that?  Not buying it.  [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 02:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Not a lot of people there to tweet in the first place. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 02:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::What im curious about is the random hate of cripples on one pinpoint spot in south dakota--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yeah, population density skews the data quite a bit. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 18:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Isn't it calculated as &amp;quot;relevant tweets : total tweets&amp;quot; thus removing population density from the equation. (if I read the FAQ correctly) [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::They should count &amp;quot;Lamanite&amp;quot; as a racist term, then Utah and Wyoming would represent more accurately [[User:Secret Squirrel|Secret Squirrel]] ([[User talk:Secret Squirrel|talk]]) 22:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What if they're using cripple as a verb?  Also, I imagine that this is more of a population map and a connectivity map than it is an accurate assessor of racism.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nevermind.  After reading the FAQ and some other of their posts explaining the map, I now know that they hired students to discern the context of words, and that the map is scaled is some sort of magic statistic-y way that is beyond my comprehension (or willingness to comprehend), and is not simply reflective of population density.  So turns out New England is really, really, bigoted.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem I have with this survey is that words such as &amp;quot;fag&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;homo&amp;quot; are taken as being homophobic even when they are very often used in a context that has nothing to do with sexuality. I fully accept that their use in a derogatory sense causes distress to many gay people, but saying that they are used in a hateful sense is akin to saying that people must be referring to sex when they say &amp;quot;f**k&amp;quot;. Perhaps the terms &amp;quot;uninformed&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;not caring&amp;quot; would be better than &amp;quot;bigot&amp;quot;. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 05:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Please read the post (is that word used in a wiki context?) right above you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Woops..... 07:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Unconditional election ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So I was reading some youtube comment war about religion, and one of the main was people arguing about Unconditional election, and I just... I don't understand how you can argue for both a Just and loving god and the idea that said god chose some people to be saved, and the rest are never able saved. I just... &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; Gahhh &amp;lt;rant over&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 01:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm not formally trained in theology but that view doesn't make sense to me.  It contradicts the Great Commission, &amp;quot;go and make disciples of all nations.&amp;quot;  What would be the point of this if it had already been decided who was saved? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I'm not a trained theologist either but: There doesn't have to be a point. Whatever his followers say, the God depicted in the Bible is a capricious bastard, there doesn't have to be a rhyme or reason. The Idirans in ''Consider Phlebas'' make everybody join in with their religion, not because they believe non-Idirans can benefit (they think it's ludicrous for something with a mortal body to expect to have an immortal soul) but because it's a show of religiosity for the Idirans to make others join in. Like the Jewish thing about not merely obeying God's rules, but making a big show of it so that everybody knows how important it is to obey them. When you see an elevator with a &amp;quot;Sabbath&amp;quot; mode, that's Judaism scoring a point, even if the people who built the lift don't believe, and the people who bought the lift don't believe, and even the people who ride in the lift don't believe, the existence of the mode, the meetings discussing how it should work, the extra lines of code in the firmware, are all points for Elohim and against other imaginary beings.  [[Special:Contributions/84.246.168.11|84.246.168.11]] ([[User talk:84.246.168.11|talk]]) 11:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The most general rationalisation is that God is, by definition, perfect. Therefore any decision He makes is perfect, by definition. It's therefore above any reproach, by definition. Therefore, no matter what God does, it is Good, by definition. God is, by definition, the source of morality, and by definition His actions are Good. Does that clear anything up? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Also, was what you're reading anything to do with [[Double predestination|this]]? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''sshole''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::They can say that Armondikov, but it doesn't make it less bullshit. Furthermore, I bet that most people don't even believe it personally, but ala Dennett's belief in belief, they think it's important to believe that. I would think/hope that if push came to shove, and it could be demonstrated that the christian god acts against happiness, freedom, and the other values of humanism, (esp. for its own amusement and glorification), then lots of followers would agree it's an evil thing and you have no &amp;quot;duty&amp;quot; to obey such a monster. Unfortunately, ala Battered Wife Syndrome, it's too easy to make excuses for the batterer, I mean the god in question. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And that's why they had to invent an [[theodicy|entire subdiscipline of theology]] dedicated to rationalizing away the problem of evil. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Michael Mann has been invited to TAM ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Heads up: Michael Mann, a.k.a. the &amp;quot;[[global warming|hockey stick]]&amp;quot; guy, has been invited to The Amazing Meeting. Heads are [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=258831 already exploding] in the expected quarters. :D --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:JREF ''shouldn't'' be expected quarters. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Users on the JREF forums are not the JREF itself. The forum's userbase is more politically diverse than RW's and attracts people with varying levels of skepticism and scientific knowledge, including cranks that don't self-identify as skeptics.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 09:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are some good responses to the nuttier comments.  I liked the guy whose only post in ''seven years'' was to say that he was leaving because of Michael Mann... [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 01:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out&amp;quot; would be a good response. My only question: if we do successfully force the denialists of all stripes out of the skeptical movement to go to Reddit Island or wherever it is they want to wind up, what happens then?  [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 02:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::We can debunk stuff without getting interrupted by morons?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::There have been previous talks on global warming, although not from a high-profile name in the field like Mann. I expect some denialist/pseudoskeptic panties will be bunched, but I doubt this will cause any major controversy. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 21:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What are your thoughts on a RationalWiki survey? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've been [[RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls#Previous polls|poking around about how unreligious we are (or not)]], debating the state of the current skeptical movement (and our own site's political and philosophical views), and I was wondering if we could devise some sort of census to quantify the diversity of our userbase.  What do you think of hot-button subjects like religious tolerance and extremism, feminism, economics, gun control, the energy crisis, abortion, alternative medicine, etc.  There's still the perception that we solely exist to counter Conservapedia.  [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds good to me. I'd like to take part.--[[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 05:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Why not. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 06:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've suggested something like this before.  I think most important would be to gather some basic demographics: location, age, gender, &amp;amp; possibly ethnicity &amp;amp; sexual orientation.  Then where people sit politically &amp;amp; in relation to religion. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:28, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harper's Government ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I knew that they weren't [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s shiny, happy people], but [http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/17/artist-inspiration-canada-silence-climate this] is a shitty abuse of power.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 10:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What get's me about Harper is that he isn't too terribly different then say... Mulroney, except that the man is clearly one of the most petty, vindictive men in Canadian history. Everything is personal with him, and he'll try to stomp on single people in large movements his apposed to, just because he is a hateful man. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Mulroney looks like Jesus compared to Harper right now.  (I never thought I'd say that.) [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Singularity nonsense. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpNkWIixjKE Ray Kurzweil talks with Suzanne Sommers] {{unsigned|TheLateGatsby}} 18:30, 20 May 2013‎&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The revolution has failed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Counter revolutionary forces have routed the armies of reason and justice. A shadowy secretive war has been conducted, my email account hacked, and thousands of incriminating emails destroyed by agents antipathetic to the forces of liberty. There is no end to the secretiveness, callousness and authoritarianism of this regime. The truth will be forever silenced, now that the regime have disposed of the incriminating documents that would have directly led to their downfall.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must now take some time to consider my position. As an arch dissident, and leader of the liberty movement, I have been out maneuvered by a regime I had grossly underestimated. I had pictured them as being the Romanov's in their last month; alas, they have been more like Lyndon Johnson when he took out Kennedy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Will freedom ever reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For now, we must reorganise and create a grass roots movement to challenge autocracy. Say no to authoritarianism. Say no to censorship. Say no to hatred. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may have won this battle, but my war is an eternal conflict between darkness and light. It may be very late and night right now, but dawn is just around the corner. When the sun pierces the horizon and lightens the sky, look above you to the hillside where my glittering army shall be prepared to smite thee, in a torrent of righteous vengeance. Fear not! Liberty will come again! &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Will freedome vere reign again? Will the world ever know justice?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
:Likely not. Sorry. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Dont be cruel Nihilist, this is clearly a response to my tragically failed coup to take over Cornwall the past weekend. I would like to thank the anonymous lover of freedom for his sympathy and optimism. [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Everybody here needs new material. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 21:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Does this mean we can finally ban this idiot? Oh, this is still Rationalwiki, where any jackass can do whatever the fuck they want? Fair enough.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::MC, if it makes you feel any better, some jackass keeps trying to perma-ban me every so often.  --&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hamilton, once again you betray yourself. Your constant and loud declaration that you are indeed a 'conservative' fool nobody, and instead stimulate further debate and speculation about your true motives. Personally, my theory is that you are an ethnic or religious minority who grew up in privileged suburban conditions, predominately alongside WASP Anglo-Saxons. As a result, you've developed the atypical inferiority complexes such people develop in such environments. Instead of embracing your own uniqueness and identity, you crave the false emotionalism that conservatism offers, and cling desperately to the old wealth accumulating practises that so define that most poisonous demographic - the suburban white protestant ideological conservative. Your motives are in question Hamilton, as is your character. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Uh.... what. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==What to feel about the current gay marriage kerfuffle in the UK?==&lt;br /&gt;
As some may be aware of, the recent gay marriage bill is facing opposition and outrage by (you may want to take a seat for this mindblowing revelation) &amp;quot;grassroots&amp;quot; tory activists, whom David Cameron has been desperately trying to hammer into line over this issue. Since this is a genuinely good thing being pushed by a phenomenally unlikable cockwaffle who is only doing it to help gain the youth vote and take any advantage on gay rights away from labour by &amp;quot;delivering&amp;quot; Gay Marriage, is it possible to both feel supportive of him on this issue while simultaneously hoping the homophobic idiots rebelling about this kick the political shite out of him? [[User:Judge_Holden|Judge Holden]][[User_Talk:Judge_Holden|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;The Judge Smiles&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]]  20:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, they'll end up going to UKIP, die a political death, and leave the Tories with far less MP support. At least in theory. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I have no problem with seeing the Tory party destabilising, splintering or losing some grassroots support over this, but ultimately don't want to see the homophobic idiots winning as I'd like to see this bill pass.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 21:15, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If it's progress and a good thing, I care that the UK government delivers, regardless of party. Though, I can't see how the nutjobs buggering off, leaving us with a fiscally conservative but socially liberal-to-moderate party is anything but good by all possible metrics. I mean, it leaves a fairly viable economic option without the associated social asshattery, and gives us a fragmented Right that would perform very poorly under a FPTP electoral system so they have no chance of getting power for a good couple of decades. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Is it bad that I actually feel pity for Cameron?  If the Tories are going to start an exodus and prevent him from becoming re-electable, it shouldn't be because he did the ''right thing''.  At least he'll have his name in the history books. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== I hate adblock ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adblock, god awful interface. Blip.TV, inability to let me easily unblock it. how do i allow ads on blip, because i've tried what I know how to allow ads on it, including going through the lists and disabling the blocks and blanket allowing on all sites. What the crap am i doing wrong? &amp;gt;.&amp;lt; --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Click on the icon and choose 'disable on [site name]'. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It doesn't matter if you white list Blip, it will do that so long as you have Ad-blocker installed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 05:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::No, that's false. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Never heard of that page before. Went there. Tested. Got message that, sorry, can't watch with adblocking. Did &amp;quot;Disable on this page only&amp;quot;. Hit &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot;. Worked. No reason to hate AdBlock+, the best thing since Ice Cream. [[User:Dendlai|Dendlai]] ([[User talk:Dendlai|talk]]) 06:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For the hardcore among us, firefox + NoScript is where it's at. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 09:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I use Chrome for everything and keep FF without adblock for situations like this. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Faced with mysteries dark and vast/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|statements just seem vain at last.]] 14:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Or, you know, you could whitelist the specific sites you want the ads to play. It's not that difficult, people. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 18:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Would you like me to make you a video where i've done just that to no effect?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes. I'm very confident you're doing something wrong… or you're using the shitter Chrome version and it doesn't work properly there. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57585327-504083/kaitlyn-hunt-18-charged-over-same-sex-relationship-with-15-year-old-classmate-report-says/ This pisses me off] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And not even because of the possible [[homophobia]] angle. If two people are both in highschool and the sex was clearly consenual, what's the fucking problem? What's the harm? Should she be punished — two years house arrest, one year probation, and ''permanently being labeled a sex offender'' as the best current option for her — just because 'it's the law' and you have to blindly follow the law with no exceptions or interpretations based on the intent of it? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 03:56, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Quick question: if the alleged perpetrator in this case was male, would you have the same opinion?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:To be clear, I'm no MRA, I'm just curious as to how some of the folks here view statutory rape laws. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 04:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, absolutely. I remember talking to an 18-year-old (give or take a year) over MSN once who said that he had sex with a 14-year-old, and though i was a little weirded-out back then, looking back on it now i'm fine with it… although past fourteen or thirteen is where i even i would draw a line. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size: 110%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;/ˈ&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;nai:ɪlɪst&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;/&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::My own opinion is that this issue clearly works out on a case-by-case basis. However, if we are going to have it addressed by the law, we need to draw a line somewhere. The line of 18 may not be perfect, but the alternative is either another line (which will also have its problems) or eliminating statuatory rape laws altogether. I would hope that if the alleged perpetrator indeed had consent, then a jury would clear her of charges. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Lots of courts frown heavily on jury nullification. Juries are usually instructed heavily in such a way as to make it seem like that they don't even have the option. I think you could redo statutory rape laws to allow leeway of 3 or 4 years. It's not that hard. High school kids having sex with high school kids shouldn't be illegal. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 07:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::This is a real sticky one considering how it boils down to &amp;quot;relationship was started when you were both underage, Romeo laws covered you, one turns eighteen, ''you are now a registered sex offender''...while at the same time, laws must have some arbitrariness to them. I think there should be some kind of loophole for situations like this, but if that were the case, how would one provide proof the relationship had been going on prior? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 07:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Being an huge LGBT rights activist, I've thought about this one a lot since I heard about it on the radio the other day. To be honest, I would love nothing more for there to be a plea agreement to lesser charges or a not guilty verdict by the jury in this case. Barring that, though, I unfortunately have to side with the prosecutor's decision to prosecute this case. Unfortunately, from what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Goldman Norman Goldman] was saying on his show at least, the laws are usually written in such a way that, once law enforcement finds out about a statutory rape case, they are bound by law to prosecute them regardless of the wishes of the victim. If you ask me, if people want to be outraged at this case, they should be outraged at the parents of the alleged victim for turning it over to the cops just because they didn't like Ms. Hunt, and not at the police or prosecutors for doing their job.. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great, it's here too ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I had little respect for the local CCM music station my mom listens to before, [http://www.spirit1053.com/event/Details.aspx?ID=358507 but this is just horrible]. I was a bit shocked when i heard it, as i sort of assumed that [[Abstinence ball|purity balls]] only happened in the South, but no: apparently even liberal Seattle has these things. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews</id>
		<title>NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:47:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Music and poetry */ Permalink seems to fuck up sometimes..... Another link would be helpful&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{altmed}}{{Bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''NaturalNews.com''' (formerly '''Newstarget''') is a website founded by '''Mike &amp;quot;the Health Ranger&amp;quot; Adams'''.  The site promotes almost every sort of medical [[woo]] known, though it specializes in [[vaccine denialism]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccine denial: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037653_vaccine_additives_thimerosal_formaldehyde.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035871_vaccination_immunization_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine-zombie.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; AIDS/[[HIV denial]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;AIDS/HIV denialism: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027354_AIDS_immune_system.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/028707_AIDS_epidemic.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027890_AIDS_test_HIV.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000646_AIDS_HIV_medical_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027355_AIDS_HIV.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Cancer#Quack_cancer_treatments|quack cancer medicine]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Cancer woo: [http://www.naturalnews.com/029917_prostate_cancer_PSA.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027481_prostate_cancer_baking_soda.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036458_cancer_remedies_blood_root_vitamin_D.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_Breast_Cancer_Deception_0.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035296_frankincense_cancer_natural_cure.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038235_lemon_extract_breast_cancer_tumor_cells.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037879_curcumin_cancer_cells_turmeric.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037944_ovarian_cancer_foods_medicine.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038071_cancer_sugar_sweets.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037216_cancer_cells_immune_system_bromelain.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027247_chaparral_cancer.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035471_skin_cancer_cure_eggplant.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]] about modern medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029901_pomegranate_juice_health_claims.html An example of said conspiracy theories]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Even other quacks think it's a quack site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/616-special-report-the-legend-of-mike-adams-and-the-reality.html Special Report: The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality] (Thomas Corriher and Sarah Cain, ''The Health Wyze Report'', 06 Feb 2013)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site has recently expanded its outlook to become an outlet for extreme [[environmentalism]] and conspiracy theorizing about [[Obama]] and [[gun control]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Health beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams is a flat-out opponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of modern medicine and opposes any medication&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/001967_good_medicine_pharmas.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or doctor visits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038707_executive_orders_doctors_health_care_spies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams calls himself a &amp;quot;holistic nutritionist&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Media.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and is a [[raw foodism|raw food]] proponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027858_raw_food_nutrition.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who opposes food that contains sugar,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022692_sugar_xylitol_stevia.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; food that was cooked&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036956_Rawpalooza_raw_food_diet.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or made to last,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037037_raw_food_diet_chemical_agriculture_antioxidants.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; meat,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/red_meat.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; sweeteners,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035752_artificial_sweeteners_flavor_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; glutamate,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; homogenized milk,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bread,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037361_sex_bread_gluten.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;white&amp;quot; flour,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/002700_white_flour_refined_grains.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; washing powder,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029580_laundry_detergent_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; deodorants,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000521_deodorants_personal_care_products_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; shampoo&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/003210_personal_care_products_shampoos.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and fluoride.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037236_sodium_fluoride_water_treatment_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recurring theme is the contrast between the site's exacting criticism of [[evidence-based medicine]] and its unquestioning acceptance of the [[appeal to nature]], [[New Age]] and [[alternative medicine]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029893_alternative_medicine_evidence.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; This often involves rejection of the [[scientific method|scientific method's]] application to medicine as &amp;quot;inherently flawed&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031962_science_vibrational_healing.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; repudiating the entire philosophy of modern medicine post-[[Louis Pasteur|Pasteur]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019334_health_drug_disease.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams is a firm [[germ theory denialism|germ theory denialist]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031254_Germ_Theory_hoax.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036219_germ_theory_human_body_bacteria.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also conflates evidence-based medicine in general, the failings of [[Big Pharma]] and the US health insurance system: to him, it's all a monolithic entity called &amp;quot;mainstream medicine&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028561_mainstream_medicine_health_care.html If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 12 April 2010); [https://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/ten-misconceptions-from-natural-news/ point-by-point skeptical response].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site blames the pharmaceutical industry for all vaguely drug-linked celebrity deaths rather than looking at any surrounding factors.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034944_Whitney_Houston_prescription_drugs_addiction.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034967_celebrities_pharmaceuticals_timeline.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/026511_cancer_chemotherapy_doctors.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The response to any alternative medicine claim, however, is blind acceptance, whether the topic at hand is [[homeopathy]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038096_homeopathy_whooping_cough_vaccines.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[chiropractic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/008845_American_Medical_Association_the_AMA.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[dental woo]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019414_dentistry_modern.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[aspartame]] scares,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035322_aspartame_sources_infographic.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[vitamin]] woo,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038649_parlor_tricks_illusion_government.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Vaccine hysteria|anti-vaccination panic]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or [[detox]] diets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029039_detox_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Medical conspiracy theories==&lt;br /&gt;
NaturalNews also features many [[Big Pharma]] conspiracy theories.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032088_mind_control_drugs.html Big Pharma Mind Control!]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/023857_chiropractic_AMA_the.html AMA conspiracy against chiropractic]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; There is no depth Big Pharma will not sink to, no [[Big Lie|lie too big for them to tell]], in order to poison American citizens and cover up their &amp;quot;junk science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022505_Vytorin_Merck.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams claims that the “pharmaceutical industry” is creating HIV vaccines with the ''sole purpose'' of creating as many “HIV positive people” as possible to sell anti-retroviral drugs to at a huge profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029236_HIV_vaccine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Mammographic screening creates cancer, which is then expensively treated for big profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/010886_breast_cancer_mammograms.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024901_mammograms_breast_cancer.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/025560_cancer_breast_women.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024857_cancer_women_mammography.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers that [[chemotherapy]] warrants criminal prosecution.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026305_medicine_child_chemotherapy.html The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser], Mike Adams, Natural News May 20, 2009, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023689.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/22/the-latest-scummy-tactic/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to '''be banned forever!'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More recent conspiracy theories claim that Bill Gates and Microsoft are in the process of developing weaponized, ethnically-targeted influenza viruses as part of a sinister eugenics plot.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also manages to misinterpret attempts to develop reversible forms of [[birth control|male contraceptives]] as deliberate attempts to permanently sterilize minorities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His reaction to Angelina Jolie's preventive double mastectomy due to having the BRCA1 gene mutation was predictable; the quoted 87% probability that she would come down with breast cancer was irrelevant, since diet and lifestyle changes can magically suppress BRCA1 expression. And of course, ''oncologists'' are cast as the quacks here, not fine upstanding people like Adams.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.naturalnews.com/040349_Angelina_Jolie_breast_cancer_surgery.html How Angelina Jolie was duped by cancer doctors into self mutilation for breast cancer she never had,] naturalnews.net&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/15/quack-view-of-preventing-breast-cancer-versus-reality/ The quack view of preventing breast cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie,] Respectful Insolence, scienceblogs.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Non-medical conspiracy theories ==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' love for woo isn't restricted to medicine. [[Cold fusion]] and so-called [[Free_energy_(pseudoscience)|free energy]] ideas and devices like the [[Energy Catalyzer]] are presented on his website with the same enthusiasm as the latest alternative medicine fad.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input], Neev M. Arnell, Natural News May 19, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html Free Energy Technology Could Destroy the Natural World (But It Doesn't Have To)], Mike Adams, Natural News April 24,2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He collects news about [[chemtrails]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/chemtrails.html They have a whole category for chemtrails, in fact]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is a [[9/11 conspiracy theories|9/11 truther]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_911_truth_WTC_7.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [[birther]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/032217_Obama_birth_certificate.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and pretty much [[crank magnetism|everything else-er]]. And a [[Sandy Hook]] denialist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers [[Alex Jones]], [[Jeff Rense]], and [[David Icke]] to be &amp;quot;REAL heroes&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html This post puts much of his insanity on display in one place.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and Icke&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html David Icke on AIDS]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[whale.to]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026434_vaccine_vaccines_vaccination.html Five times in this article alone.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to be reliable sources. Naturally, he supports [[Ron Paul]] and &amp;quot;[[health freedom]]&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Ron_Paul.html Ron Paul articles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; despite simultaneously supporting health care reform and Cuba's health care system. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/021906_SiCKO_Michael_Moore.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He thinks [[Scientology]] (of which he is an ex-member) is treated unfairly.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000534_scientology_self_defense_swords.html Crazed Swordsman Attacks Scientology Guard Who Fires Back in Self Defense], Mike Adams, Natural News November 24, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000645_John_Travolta_Scientology_Freedom_of_Religion.html Baseless Accusations against John Travolta Demonstrate Cruelty, Intolerance of Pill Pushers and Religion Bashers], Mike Adams, Natural News January 5, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/ Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now], Orac, ''Respectful Insolence'', June 23rd, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; According to Adams, this is due to attempts by anti-religious bigots and (you guessed it) [[Big Pharma]] to oppress their belief system in order to protect their profits. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adams has also issued his informed opinion of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado [[Aurora shooting|&amp;quot;Batman&amp;quot; shootings]], declaring that they were &amp;quot;obviously&amp;quot; staged, or perhaps that the killer, James Holmes, was involved in &amp;quot;experimental&amp;quot; neuroscience that got out of hand.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Furthermore, also the 2013 attacks on the Boston marathon is reported to be a false flag operation by &amp;quot;private military contractors&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;conventional [[physics]]&amp;quot; is a conspiracy of the same sort as conventional medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E3B38227225F9FC62BAEA9CC81BE1D12 22 minutes of video woo]; [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/11/mike-adams-pretentious-git-sla/ PZ Myers takes you through it].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 2013 predictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of 2012, Adams put up a list of 20 &amp;quot;dark&amp;quot; predictions about 2013, which he believes to be &amp;quot;1984 on steroids&amp;quot;. Watch out, because if Adams is right (and that's a big ''if'', considering his predictions for 2012&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034566_2012_predictions_Mayan_calendar.html NaturalNews:2012 predictions]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;), the following were predicted to happen:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html 20 dark predictions for 2013, the year of oppression and insanity], Natural News&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Global economic collapse: &amp;quot;When record-low tax revenues are reported in April because of Obama's planned destruction of the U.S. economy, ratings organizations will downgrade U.S. debt, setting off a global selloff that could thrust America into a &amp;quot;nightmare&amp;quot; scenario of being unable to sell more debt&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Obama administration attempts to gut the Second Amendment&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Martial Law declared across America&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Extreme shortages of guns, ammo, magazines as their barter value skyrockets&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Tactical weapon strikes target Iran&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Massive false flag attack carried out in USA and blamed on patriots&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;DHS arms the TSA and begins insane abuses of Americans on roadway checkpoints&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Secret resistance groups begin to form across America&amp;quot; (which will be easy to verify, given that secret groups are usually well-documented, right?)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Attacks on the First Amendment accelerate as government seizes websites&amp;quot; (at least, the government will shut down NaturalNews and Alex Jones' Infowars site, apparently)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;The rise of violent rhetoric among the population as disagreements turn to threats&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Global government makes its move&amp;quot; – &amp;quot;Expect to see UN troops in U.S. cities before the end of 2015. The planned rollout of conflict in the USA is going to be followed by UN troops arriving on the scene to &amp;quot;rescue&amp;quot; the USA.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Accelerated mainstream media attacks on patriots, [[prepper|preppers]] and veterans&amp;quot; – because self-declared patriots are all [[Timothy McVeigh|peaceful people]].&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Disagreement with the government characterized a &amp;quot;mental disorder&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Continued rise in unemployment, food stamps, welfare as Obama accelerates deliberate destruction of U.S. economy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Criminalization of preparedness activities as government outlaws ammo storage of private citizens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Riots in the streets, followed by Martial Law&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Deliberate food shortages used as a weapon of government control&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Weather becomes even more radicalized, with droughts, floods, freezes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Solar weather gets nasty: Solar flares threaten communications&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;You will be told the answer to all our problems is &amp;quot;MORE government!&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Creative endeavors==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mike's cartoons ===&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more ridiculous features of NaturalNews is the cartoons by Mike Adams, which are even less entertaining than [[Mallard Fillmore]] or [[The Far Left Side]]. They are usually followed by paragraph after paragraph of the author having to explain the point of the cartoon to an audience who otherwise wouldn't find them &amp;quot;funny,&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029453_raw_milk_foods.html An example of this insult to good cartoonists]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; let alone be bothered to care. Thankfully he doesn't do much of the actual art.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Music and poetry===&lt;br /&gt;
More ridiculous still is the &amp;quot;Music&amp;quot; section on NaturalNews, where he posts hiphop videos and songs he wrote about the alternative quackery of the day. Most of the so-called &amp;quot;music&amp;quot; is cheap-sounding hiphop injected with Mike's screeds about how terrible vaccines and anti-depressants are.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Music.html Listen] if your ears dare.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Just like his cartoons, his hiphop postings are also followed by paragraphs of his own self-aggrandizement and boring explanations of his works for those who didn't care to listen to the actual song.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as poetry is concerned, Adams' creativity is unbounded.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In a downward direction. [http://www.naturalnews.com/034764_imprison_us_all_poem_Mike_Adams.html  To imprison us all] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 25 January 2012)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://nexusnow.info/forum/showthread.php?10736-To-Imprison-Us-all-a-poem-by-The-Health-Ranger-Mike-Adams]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Twitter silliness ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2010, Adams was in the running for the Shorty Awards, basically a popularity contest for [[Twitter]] users. He had the most votes in the health category, and his fellow lunatic [[Joseph Mercola]] was closely behind. Skeptics decided to vote up Rachel Dunlop, a skeptic and doctor based in Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/this_must_not_come_to_pass_quacks_winnin.php Orac post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://assholeskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/01/mike-adams-cheater-hippocrite.html Asshole Skeptic post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Dunlop got to the top of the health charts. Adams and Mercola threw an Internet shit-fit and went vote-canvassing. Hundreds of their supporters turned up and set up new accounts to vote. Those votes were promptly disqualified as only ''existing'' accounts were allowed to vote. Adams was briefly put back into pole position, but then was disqualified after the fraudulent votes were removed. He got really angry about this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, Adams childishly posted a list of all the terrible things he believes that skeptics believe on NaturalNews, including:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Skeptics believe that many six-month-old infants need [[antidepressant]] drugs. In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an unlimited number of [[drugs]] all at the same time: Antidepressants, cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Skeptic]]s believe that the human body has no ability to defend itself against invading microorganism and that the only things that can save people from viral infections are [[vaccines]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028006_Shorty_Awards_vote_fraud.html His screed] about the shorty awards&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/sometimes_i_think_we_break_the.php Pharyngula's post] about the incident&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028012_skeptics_medicine.html Mike Adams] thinks he knows what skeptics believe&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this for Twitter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.naturalnews.com/ The site itself]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://tv.naturalnews.com/ NaturalNews TV] &amp;amp;mdash; for when you've run out of YouTube cranks&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&amp;amp;q=Mike+Adams+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Finsolence%2F&amp;amp;sa=Search Orac has been documenting his insanity for years;] a more specific page detailing his material on Adams can be found [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence?s=mike+adams here] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo-meisters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Alternative medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:High priority]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:NaturalNews</id>
		<title>Talk:NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:25:33Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Ban-scare articles */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{rated&lt;br /&gt;
|1 = 2&lt;br /&gt;
|2 = Alternative medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|4 = HIGH&lt;br /&gt;
|5 = &lt;br /&gt;
*Needs more detailed and serious takedown&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
I read your trashing of naturalnews.com.  Maybe you should try citing specifics and then showing footnoted references instead of merely trashing him.{{unsigned|90.55.104.112}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Glad to know you're a fan! [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#CC0000&amp;quot; size=&amp;quot;3&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''ADK'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#330033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;...I'll exemplify ''your'' diesel engine!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Shouldn't we just move this to [[Talk:NaturalNews]]?  {{user:Aboriginal Noise/sig}} 00:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Certainly. [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#CC0000&amp;quot; size=&amp;quot;3&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''ADK'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#330033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;...I'll feel ''your'' suicidal lemming!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Done. (duh).  {{user:Aboriginal Noise/sig}} 00:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't we have a better sidebar template for this?  I will check. {{User:Human/sig|}} 02:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
This article is highly biased and unprofessional. It's more a rant then an objectieve observation with pros and cons. So it is far from &amp;quot;rational&amp;quot;. My advise: start over again with a different writer.{{unsig|Rightstuff9}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Naturally (no pun intended), some specifics would help. Also, you should check out our [[RationalWiki:Mission|mission]] and our [[RationalWiki:SPOV|point of view]]. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 13:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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This article is highly biased and unprofessional. It's more a rant then an objectieve observation with pros and cons. So it is far from &amp;quot;rational&amp;quot;. My advise: start over again with a different writer. Guess the work RNS has to undo so many comments, I'm not the only one.  Wishing you pleasure with this UNrational WIKI.&lt;br /&gt;
::Hooray for [[ad hominem]] attacks! ''Drink!'' [[User:Conservative Punk|Conservative Punk]] ([[User talk:Conservative Punk|talk]])&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{RATIONALWiki}} [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:xx-small&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]•&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 13:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== Substance? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I just happened upon the naturalnews.com website today. I thought I would google the name to see if I could find anything critical out there to get a counterbalance of the perspective espoused there. I found this page. It's quite obvious the writer of this page is hostile to the views expressed there. I would be more convinced of his arguments if he bothered to support any of them. Simply stating someone is a quack is not very useful to those not pre-disposed to the author's point of view. I would suggest spending some time actually researching the claims and refuting them and less time resorting to juvenile ad-hominem attacks. {{unsigned|Unclesol}}&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what the blue links are for. Also, it's hard to describe a site that uses a guy who thinks the planet is ruled by shapeshifting alien reptoids from another dimension as an &amp;quot;expert&amp;quot; as anything but stone cold fuck nuts. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 17:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Polishing up ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Another social-networking acquaintance who is actually quite smart has referenced a NaturalNews article as if the site isn't pernicious bilge that makes the Daily Mail look like Britannica. I suggest this article is rather important and needs to become a longer and more serious smackdown of NaturalNews suitable for referring people to - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== High priority ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Natural News is rising in popularity and is bat shit insane. Searching for the site we are the only high ranking skeptical material about it. Would be really good to expand this article. What directions should we take with it do you think? [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] ([[User talk:Tmtoulouse|talk]]) 16:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Merge [[Mike Adams]] so it's all in the same place. Anyone looking for one also wants the other - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 21:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::No objections? Merging - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think it works much better and more informatively as a merged article. Needs a bit of polishing up. References for every claim with captures, that sort of thing. External links section really needs winnowing and/or digesting too - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think the article needs more direct quotes from NaturalNews and Mike Adams inserted somewhere. Also, if we could see about maybe posting a page capture of one of their weakly cartoons, that might be hilarious (though we might want to look into their copyrights before we do so). {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 11:23, 31 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Need more feedback on this article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd really like this to be a front-page article, given its level of importance to the Wiki (as Trent states above, it's high priority; We are the #1 ranked skeptic of NaturalNews). What I really need is for some good old-fashioned feedback on this article: What can be done to improve it, what needs changing, and, most importantly, what needs to be done to get this to &amp;quot;Gold&amp;quot; status, etc? Any comments and help from the community would be greatly appreciated. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 13:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm not really comfortable with the article rating system but I would agree that this article needs to be front page. One of the reasons I finally created an account was because my in-laws started repeating some of the outrageous idiocy on this site. [[User:ORavenhurst|Omar]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:ORavenhurst|gibber]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 13:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Good question. It's not even a silver yet. Needs ... moar. What else has Mike Adams done out in the big world? What reasonably-documented malign influence has NaturalNews actually had in the real world, as opposed to just trying to have had? I've seen sane friends reference it like it's an actual source ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:00, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Mine some of those external links for content? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sounds good. Thank for the feedback. I knew it needed, as David so aptly put, &amp;quot;moar.&amp;quot; I just was stuck in a rut and had no idea where to go from here. This helps. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 14:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Idiocy ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see you all support big pharma then? Since you like to 'trash' naturalnews ( running scared from it more like ), aspartame is dangerous, vitamins are vital, fluoride is not good for you etc...&lt;br /&gt;
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The article seems childish, no wonder no one takes you seriously.{{unsig|86.11.102.64}}&lt;br /&gt;
:[[False dichotomy]].--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 10:13, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If we were running scared from them, then why would we write an article critical of them? Seriously, if we were &amp;quot;running scared,&amp;quot; then we wouldn't be calling them out on their [[woo]]. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 12:46, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cause Big pharam gave us some of their super mind control pills. [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:Grey&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Тyrannis&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:grey&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Plead&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:49, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Aurora Colorado shooting conspiracy ==&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if anything should be included about his conspiracies relating to the Aurora Colorado shooting. &lt;br /&gt;
He has certainly gone way out in left field to write this http://www.prisonplanet.com/colorado-batman-shooting-shows-obvious-signs-of-being-staged.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Special:Contributions/98.180.3.22|98.180.3.22]] ([[User talk:98.180.3.22|talk]]) 07:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes! It should certainly be added to this article. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 12:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== This is sillier than Ray Comfort's banana video ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Seriously, is Mike Adams [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zQ83fhKQ0M&amp;amp;playnext=1&amp;amp;list=PLK2yCXwKlnGE-HKyrHsDpHmQ8TKhccTFI&amp;amp;feature=results_video really this stupid???] [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Blog post with detailed, point-by-point citations ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://rationalblogs.org/rationalwiki/2013/03/15/mike-adams-naturalnews-the-daily-mail-of-alternative-medicine/] I should backport all the cites to Mike Adams actually saying this shit, but this post took hours and turned my brain to all-natural raw food guacamole. So anyone else should feel free to - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 21:29, 15 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Of course, no-one did. So I did. It's referred to the hilt now. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:12, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Wouldn't one need to login to your blog account to do that?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 17:05, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Nah, I did it by c'n'ping appropriate text here and going right-click, &amp;quot;Copy link&amp;quot;, paste into ref tags. Laborious but effective. HARD WORK AND ELBOW GREASE. (The blog post is in HTML, not wikitext, so it would have to be done by hand anyway. But you can get pretty much the blog source with &amp;quot;view source&amp;quot; on the web page.) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:30, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That is one huge deluge of dumb. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 22:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I just realized you meant adding the citations ''to the article'' (and not to the blog post). DOH!--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 00:12, 17 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: :-) Yeah, the process of turning articles into blog posts involves more or less ref-checking and rewriting, and all that should be backported to the wiki ... when I or anyone get around to it, and I made a special effort in this case 'cos NaturalNews is so pervasively noxious - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 08:51, 17 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Silver?==&lt;br /&gt;
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What's this need for silver? The 2013 and Twitter bits are a bit bulgy. Is there anything missing? I believe naturalnews.com was or is in the Wikipedia spam filter - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 15:23, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:A little more spit and polish might bump this thing up some more. Once my classes are over and I have more time freed up, I'm gonna give this another look over. We could really use this as a top article on the Wiki, IMO. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ban-scare articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
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''''There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to be '''banned forever!'''&amp;quot;'' - I do remember articles like this, but there don't seem to have been any in the past month or two. Do we have citable examples? Else this is oddly bare, with everything else cited - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:12, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sorry, I'm a few months late on this DG. But sicne I should have time to spend on RW again shortly, I'll get to work on polishing this up then. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews</id>
		<title>NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:20:45Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Music */ merging with poetry so that these sections seem less barren.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{altmed}}{{Bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''NaturalNews.com''' (formerly '''Newstarget''') is a website founded by '''Mike &amp;quot;the Health Ranger&amp;quot; Adams'''.  The site promotes almost every sort of medical [[woo]] known, though it specializes in [[vaccine denialism]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccine denial: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037653_vaccine_additives_thimerosal_formaldehyde.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035871_vaccination_immunization_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine-zombie.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; AIDS/[[HIV denial]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;AIDS/HIV denialism: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027354_AIDS_immune_system.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/028707_AIDS_epidemic.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027890_AIDS_test_HIV.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000646_AIDS_HIV_medical_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027355_AIDS_HIV.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Cancer#Quack_cancer_treatments|quack cancer medicine]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Cancer woo: [http://www.naturalnews.com/029917_prostate_cancer_PSA.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027481_prostate_cancer_baking_soda.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036458_cancer_remedies_blood_root_vitamin_D.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_Breast_Cancer_Deception_0.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035296_frankincense_cancer_natural_cure.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038235_lemon_extract_breast_cancer_tumor_cells.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037879_curcumin_cancer_cells_turmeric.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037944_ovarian_cancer_foods_medicine.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038071_cancer_sugar_sweets.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037216_cancer_cells_immune_system_bromelain.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027247_chaparral_cancer.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035471_skin_cancer_cure_eggplant.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]] about modern medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029901_pomegranate_juice_health_claims.html An example of said conspiracy theories]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Even other quacks think it's a quack site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/616-special-report-the-legend-of-mike-adams-and-the-reality.html Special Report: The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality] (Thomas Corriher and Sarah Cain, ''The Health Wyze Report'', 06 Feb 2013)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site has recently expanded its outlook to become an outlet for extreme [[environmentalism]] and conspiracy theorizing about [[Obama]] and [[gun control]].&lt;br /&gt;
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If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Health beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams is a flat-out opponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of modern medicine and opposes any medication&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/001967_good_medicine_pharmas.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or doctor visits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038707_executive_orders_doctors_health_care_spies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams calls himself a &amp;quot;holistic nutritionist&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Media.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and is a [[raw foodism|raw food]] proponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027858_raw_food_nutrition.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who opposes food that contains sugar,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022692_sugar_xylitol_stevia.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; food that was cooked&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036956_Rawpalooza_raw_food_diet.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or made to last,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037037_raw_food_diet_chemical_agriculture_antioxidants.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; meat,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/red_meat.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; sweeteners,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035752_artificial_sweeteners_flavor_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; glutamate,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; homogenized milk,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bread,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037361_sex_bread_gluten.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;white&amp;quot; flour,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/002700_white_flour_refined_grains.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; washing powder,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029580_laundry_detergent_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; deodorants,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000521_deodorants_personal_care_products_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; shampoo&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/003210_personal_care_products_shampoos.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and fluoride.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037236_sodium_fluoride_water_treatment_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recurring theme is the contrast between the site's exacting criticism of [[evidence-based medicine]] and its unquestioning acceptance of the [[appeal to nature]], [[New Age]] and [[alternative medicine]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029893_alternative_medicine_evidence.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; This often involves rejection of the [[scientific method|scientific method's]] application to medicine as &amp;quot;inherently flawed&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031962_science_vibrational_healing.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; repudiating the entire philosophy of modern medicine post-[[Louis Pasteur|Pasteur]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019334_health_drug_disease.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams is a firm [[germ theory denialism|germ theory denialist]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031254_Germ_Theory_hoax.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036219_germ_theory_human_body_bacteria.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also conflates evidence-based medicine in general, the failings of [[Big Pharma]] and the US health insurance system: to him, it's all a monolithic entity called &amp;quot;mainstream medicine&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028561_mainstream_medicine_health_care.html If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 12 April 2010); [https://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/ten-misconceptions-from-natural-news/ point-by-point skeptical response].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site blames the pharmaceutical industry for all vaguely drug-linked celebrity deaths rather than looking at any surrounding factors.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034944_Whitney_Houston_prescription_drugs_addiction.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034967_celebrities_pharmaceuticals_timeline.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/026511_cancer_chemotherapy_doctors.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The response to any alternative medicine claim, however, is blind acceptance, whether the topic at hand is [[homeopathy]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038096_homeopathy_whooping_cough_vaccines.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[chiropractic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/008845_American_Medical_Association_the_AMA.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[dental woo]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019414_dentistry_modern.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[aspartame]] scares,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035322_aspartame_sources_infographic.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[vitamin]] woo,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038649_parlor_tricks_illusion_government.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Vaccine hysteria|anti-vaccination panic]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or [[detox]] diets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029039_detox_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Medical conspiracy theories==&lt;br /&gt;
NaturalNews also features many [[Big Pharma]] conspiracy theories.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032088_mind_control_drugs.html Big Pharma Mind Control!]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/023857_chiropractic_AMA_the.html AMA conspiracy against chiropractic]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; There is no depth Big Pharma will not sink to, no [[Big Lie|lie too big for them to tell]], in order to poison American citizens and cover up their &amp;quot;junk science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022505_Vytorin_Merck.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams claims that the “pharmaceutical industry” is creating HIV vaccines with the ''sole purpose'' of creating as many “HIV positive people” as possible to sell anti-retroviral drugs to at a huge profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029236_HIV_vaccine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Mammographic screening creates cancer, which is then expensively treated for big profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/010886_breast_cancer_mammograms.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024901_mammograms_breast_cancer.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/025560_cancer_breast_women.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024857_cancer_women_mammography.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers that [[chemotherapy]] warrants criminal prosecution.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026305_medicine_child_chemotherapy.html The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser], Mike Adams, Natural News May 20, 2009, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023689.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/22/the-latest-scummy-tactic/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to '''be banned forever!'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More recent conspiracy theories claim that Bill Gates and Microsoft are in the process of developing weaponized, ethnically-targeted influenza viruses as part of a sinister eugenics plot.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also manages to misinterpret attempts to develop reversible forms of [[birth control|male contraceptives]] as deliberate attempts to permanently sterilize minorities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His reaction to Angelina Jolie's preventive double mastectomy due to having the BRCA1 gene mutation was predictable; the quoted 87% probability that she would come down with breast cancer was irrelevant, since diet and lifestyle changes can magically suppress BRCA1 expression. And of course, ''oncologists'' are cast as the quacks here, not fine upstanding people like Adams.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.naturalnews.com/040349_Angelina_Jolie_breast_cancer_surgery.html How Angelina Jolie was duped by cancer doctors into self mutilation for breast cancer she never had,] naturalnews.net&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/15/quack-view-of-preventing-breast-cancer-versus-reality/ The quack view of preventing breast cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie,] Respectful Insolence, scienceblogs.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Non-medical conspiracy theories ==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' love for woo isn't restricted to medicine. [[Cold fusion]] and so-called [[Free_energy_(pseudoscience)|free energy]] ideas and devices like the [[Energy Catalyzer]] are presented on his website with the same enthusiasm as the latest alternative medicine fad.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input], Neev M. Arnell, Natural News May 19, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html Free Energy Technology Could Destroy the Natural World (But It Doesn't Have To)], Mike Adams, Natural News April 24,2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He collects news about [[chemtrails]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/chemtrails.html They have a whole category for chemtrails, in fact]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is a [[9/11 conspiracy theories|9/11 truther]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_911_truth_WTC_7.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [[birther]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/032217_Obama_birth_certificate.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and pretty much [[crank magnetism|everything else-er]]. And a [[Sandy Hook]] denialist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers [[Alex Jones]], [[Jeff Rense]], and [[David Icke]] to be &amp;quot;REAL heroes&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html This post puts much of his insanity on display in one place.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and Icke&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html David Icke on AIDS]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[whale.to]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026434_vaccine_vaccines_vaccination.html Five times in this article alone.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to be reliable sources. Naturally, he supports [[Ron Paul]] and &amp;quot;[[health freedom]]&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Ron_Paul.html Ron Paul articles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; despite simultaneously supporting health care reform and Cuba's health care system. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/021906_SiCKO_Michael_Moore.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He thinks [[Scientology]] (of which he is an ex-member) is treated unfairly.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000534_scientology_self_defense_swords.html Crazed Swordsman Attacks Scientology Guard Who Fires Back in Self Defense], Mike Adams, Natural News November 24, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000645_John_Travolta_Scientology_Freedom_of_Religion.html Baseless Accusations against John Travolta Demonstrate Cruelty, Intolerance of Pill Pushers and Religion Bashers], Mike Adams, Natural News January 5, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/ Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now], Orac, ''Respectful Insolence'', June 23rd, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; According to Adams, this is due to attempts by anti-religious bigots and (you guessed it) [[Big Pharma]] to oppress their belief system in order to protect their profits. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adams has also issued his informed opinion of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado [[Aurora shooting|&amp;quot;Batman&amp;quot; shootings]], declaring that they were &amp;quot;obviously&amp;quot; staged, or perhaps that the killer, James Holmes, was involved in &amp;quot;experimental&amp;quot; neuroscience that got out of hand.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Furthermore, also the 2013 attacks on the Boston marathon is reported to be a false flag operation by &amp;quot;private military contractors&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;conventional [[physics]]&amp;quot; is a conspiracy of the same sort as conventional medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E3B38227225F9FC62BAEA9CC81BE1D12 22 minutes of video woo]; [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/11/mike-adams-pretentious-git-sla/ PZ Myers takes you through it].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 2013 predictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of 2012, Adams put up a list of 20 &amp;quot;dark&amp;quot; predictions about 2013, which he believes to be &amp;quot;1984 on steroids&amp;quot;. Watch out, because if Adams is right (and that's a big ''if'', considering his predictions for 2012&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034566_2012_predictions_Mayan_calendar.html NaturalNews:2012 predictions]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;), the following were predicted to happen:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html 20 dark predictions for 2013, the year of oppression and insanity], Natural News&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Global economic collapse: &amp;quot;When record-low tax revenues are reported in April because of Obama's planned destruction of the U.S. economy, ratings organizations will downgrade U.S. debt, setting off a global selloff that could thrust America into a &amp;quot;nightmare&amp;quot; scenario of being unable to sell more debt&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Obama administration attempts to gut the Second Amendment&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Martial Law declared across America&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Extreme shortages of guns, ammo, magazines as their barter value skyrockets&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Tactical weapon strikes target Iran&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Massive false flag attack carried out in USA and blamed on patriots&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;DHS arms the TSA and begins insane abuses of Americans on roadway checkpoints&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Secret resistance groups begin to form across America&amp;quot; (which will be easy to verify, given that secret groups are usually well-documented, right?)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Attacks on the First Amendment accelerate as government seizes websites&amp;quot; (at least, the government will shut down NaturalNews and Alex Jones' Infowars site, apparently)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;The rise of violent rhetoric among the population as disagreements turn to threats&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Global government makes its move&amp;quot; – &amp;quot;Expect to see UN troops in U.S. cities before the end of 2015. The planned rollout of conflict in the USA is going to be followed by UN troops arriving on the scene to &amp;quot;rescue&amp;quot; the USA.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Accelerated mainstream media attacks on patriots, [[prepper|preppers]] and veterans&amp;quot; – because self-declared patriots are all [[Timothy McVeigh|peaceful people]].&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Disagreement with the government characterized a &amp;quot;mental disorder&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Continued rise in unemployment, food stamps, welfare as Obama accelerates deliberate destruction of U.S. economy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Criminalization of preparedness activities as government outlaws ammo storage of private citizens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Riots in the streets, followed by Martial Law&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Deliberate food shortages used as a weapon of government control&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Weather becomes even more radicalized, with droughts, floods, freezes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Solar weather gets nasty: Solar flares threaten communications&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;You will be told the answer to all our problems is &amp;quot;MORE government!&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Creative endeavors==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mike's cartoons ===&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more ridiculous features of NaturalNews is the cartoons by Mike Adams, which are even less entertaining than [[Mallard Fillmore]] or [[The Far Left Side]]. They are usually followed by paragraph after paragraph of the author having to explain the point of the cartoon to an audience who otherwise wouldn't find them &amp;quot;funny,&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029453_raw_milk_foods.html An example of this insult to good cartoonists]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; let alone be bothered to care. Thankfully he doesn't do much of the actual art.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Music and poetry===&lt;br /&gt;
More ridiculous still is the &amp;quot;Music&amp;quot; section on NaturalNews, where he posts hiphop videos and songs he wrote about the alternative quackery of the day. Most of the so-called &amp;quot;music&amp;quot; is cheap-sounding hiphop injected with Mike's screeds about how terrible vaccines and anti-depressants are.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Music.html Listen] if your ears dare.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Just like his cartoons, his hiphop postings are also followed by paragraphs of his own self-aggrandizement and boring explanations of his works for those who didn't care to listen to the actual song.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As far as poetry is concerned, Adams' creativity is unbounded.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In a downward direction. [http://www.naturalnews.com/034764_imprison_us_all_poem_Mike_Adams.html  To imprison us all] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 25 January 2012)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Twitter silliness ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2010, Adams was in the running for the Shorty Awards, basically a popularity contest for [[Twitter]] users. He had the most votes in the health category, and his fellow lunatic [[Joseph Mercola]] was closely behind. Skeptics decided to vote up Rachel Dunlop, a skeptic and doctor based in Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/this_must_not_come_to_pass_quacks_winnin.php Orac post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://assholeskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/01/mike-adams-cheater-hippocrite.html Asshole Skeptic post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Dunlop got to the top of the health charts. Adams and Mercola threw an Internet shit-fit and went vote-canvassing. Hundreds of their supporters turned up and set up new accounts to vote. Those votes were promptly disqualified as only ''existing'' accounts were allowed to vote. Adams was briefly put back into pole position, but then was disqualified after the fraudulent votes were removed. He got really angry about this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, Adams childishly posted a list of all the terrible things he believes that skeptics believe on NaturalNews, including:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Skeptics believe that many six-month-old infants need [[antidepressant]] drugs. In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an unlimited number of [[drugs]] all at the same time: Antidepressants, cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Skeptic]]s believe that the human body has no ability to defend itself against invading microorganism and that the only things that can save people from viral infections are [[vaccines]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028006_Shorty_Awards_vote_fraud.html His screed] about the shorty awards&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/sometimes_i_think_we_break_the.php Pharyngula's post] about the incident&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028012_skeptics_medicine.html Mike Adams] thinks he knows what skeptics believe&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this for Twitter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.naturalnews.com/ The site itself]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://tv.naturalnews.com/ NaturalNews TV] &amp;amp;mdash; for when you've run out of YouTube cranks&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&amp;amp;q=Mike+Adams+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Finsolence%2F&amp;amp;sa=Search Orac has been documenting his insanity for years;] a more specific page detailing his material on Adams can be found [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence?s=mike+adams here] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo-meisters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Alternative medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:High priority]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews</id>
		<title>NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:19:34Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Poetry */ Gonna merge a section, as I am not a fan of one-sentence sections. If somebody thinks this isn't a way to improve the article, then undo with explanation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{altmed}}{{Bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''NaturalNews.com''' (formerly '''Newstarget''') is a website founded by '''Mike &amp;quot;the Health Ranger&amp;quot; Adams'''.  The site promotes almost every sort of medical [[woo]] known, though it specializes in [[vaccine denialism]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccine denial: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037653_vaccine_additives_thimerosal_formaldehyde.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035871_vaccination_immunization_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine-zombie.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; AIDS/[[HIV denial]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;AIDS/HIV denialism: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027354_AIDS_immune_system.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/028707_AIDS_epidemic.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027890_AIDS_test_HIV.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000646_AIDS_HIV_medical_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027355_AIDS_HIV.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Cancer#Quack_cancer_treatments|quack cancer medicine]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Cancer woo: [http://www.naturalnews.com/029917_prostate_cancer_PSA.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027481_prostate_cancer_baking_soda.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036458_cancer_remedies_blood_root_vitamin_D.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_Breast_Cancer_Deception_0.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035296_frankincense_cancer_natural_cure.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038235_lemon_extract_breast_cancer_tumor_cells.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037879_curcumin_cancer_cells_turmeric.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037944_ovarian_cancer_foods_medicine.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038071_cancer_sugar_sweets.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037216_cancer_cells_immune_system_bromelain.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027247_chaparral_cancer.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035471_skin_cancer_cure_eggplant.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]] about modern medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029901_pomegranate_juice_health_claims.html An example of said conspiracy theories]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Even other quacks think it's a quack site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/616-special-report-the-legend-of-mike-adams-and-the-reality.html Special Report: The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality] (Thomas Corriher and Sarah Cain, ''The Health Wyze Report'', 06 Feb 2013)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site has recently expanded its outlook to become an outlet for extreme [[environmentalism]] and conspiracy theorizing about [[Obama]] and [[gun control]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Health beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams is a flat-out opponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of modern medicine and opposes any medication&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/001967_good_medicine_pharmas.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or doctor visits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038707_executive_orders_doctors_health_care_spies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams calls himself a &amp;quot;holistic nutritionist&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Media.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and is a [[raw foodism|raw food]] proponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027858_raw_food_nutrition.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who opposes food that contains sugar,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022692_sugar_xylitol_stevia.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; food that was cooked&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036956_Rawpalooza_raw_food_diet.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or made to last,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037037_raw_food_diet_chemical_agriculture_antioxidants.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; meat,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/red_meat.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; sweeteners,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035752_artificial_sweeteners_flavor_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; glutamate,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; homogenized milk,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bread,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037361_sex_bread_gluten.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;white&amp;quot; flour,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/002700_white_flour_refined_grains.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; washing powder,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029580_laundry_detergent_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; deodorants,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000521_deodorants_personal_care_products_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; shampoo&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/003210_personal_care_products_shampoos.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and fluoride.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037236_sodium_fluoride_water_treatment_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recurring theme is the contrast between the site's exacting criticism of [[evidence-based medicine]] and its unquestioning acceptance of the [[appeal to nature]], [[New Age]] and [[alternative medicine]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029893_alternative_medicine_evidence.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; This often involves rejection of the [[scientific method|scientific method's]] application to medicine as &amp;quot;inherently flawed&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031962_science_vibrational_healing.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; repudiating the entire philosophy of modern medicine post-[[Louis Pasteur|Pasteur]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019334_health_drug_disease.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams is a firm [[germ theory denialism|germ theory denialist]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031254_Germ_Theory_hoax.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036219_germ_theory_human_body_bacteria.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also conflates evidence-based medicine in general, the failings of [[Big Pharma]] and the US health insurance system: to him, it's all a monolithic entity called &amp;quot;mainstream medicine&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028561_mainstream_medicine_health_care.html If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 12 April 2010); [https://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/ten-misconceptions-from-natural-news/ point-by-point skeptical response].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site blames the pharmaceutical industry for all vaguely drug-linked celebrity deaths rather than looking at any surrounding factors.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034944_Whitney_Houston_prescription_drugs_addiction.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034967_celebrities_pharmaceuticals_timeline.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/026511_cancer_chemotherapy_doctors.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The response to any alternative medicine claim, however, is blind acceptance, whether the topic at hand is [[homeopathy]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038096_homeopathy_whooping_cough_vaccines.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[chiropractic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/008845_American_Medical_Association_the_AMA.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[dental woo]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019414_dentistry_modern.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[aspartame]] scares,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035322_aspartame_sources_infographic.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[vitamin]] woo,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038649_parlor_tricks_illusion_government.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Vaccine hysteria|anti-vaccination panic]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or [[detox]] diets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029039_detox_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Medical conspiracy theories==&lt;br /&gt;
NaturalNews also features many [[Big Pharma]] conspiracy theories.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032088_mind_control_drugs.html Big Pharma Mind Control!]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/023857_chiropractic_AMA_the.html AMA conspiracy against chiropractic]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; There is no depth Big Pharma will not sink to, no [[Big Lie|lie too big for them to tell]], in order to poison American citizens and cover up their &amp;quot;junk science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022505_Vytorin_Merck.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams claims that the “pharmaceutical industry” is creating HIV vaccines with the ''sole purpose'' of creating as many “HIV positive people” as possible to sell anti-retroviral drugs to at a huge profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029236_HIV_vaccine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Mammographic screening creates cancer, which is then expensively treated for big profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/010886_breast_cancer_mammograms.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024901_mammograms_breast_cancer.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/025560_cancer_breast_women.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024857_cancer_women_mammography.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers that [[chemotherapy]] warrants criminal prosecution.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026305_medicine_child_chemotherapy.html The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser], Mike Adams, Natural News May 20, 2009, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023689.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/22/the-latest-scummy-tactic/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to '''be banned forever!'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More recent conspiracy theories claim that Bill Gates and Microsoft are in the process of developing weaponized, ethnically-targeted influenza viruses as part of a sinister eugenics plot.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also manages to misinterpret attempts to develop reversible forms of [[birth control|male contraceptives]] as deliberate attempts to permanently sterilize minorities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His reaction to Angelina Jolie's preventive double mastectomy due to having the BRCA1 gene mutation was predictable; the quoted 87% probability that she would come down with breast cancer was irrelevant, since diet and lifestyle changes can magically suppress BRCA1 expression. And of course, ''oncologists'' are cast as the quacks here, not fine upstanding people like Adams.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.naturalnews.com/040349_Angelina_Jolie_breast_cancer_surgery.html How Angelina Jolie was duped by cancer doctors into self mutilation for breast cancer she never had,] naturalnews.net&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/15/quack-view-of-preventing-breast-cancer-versus-reality/ The quack view of preventing breast cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie,] Respectful Insolence, scienceblogs.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Non-medical conspiracy theories ==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' love for woo isn't restricted to medicine. [[Cold fusion]] and so-called [[Free_energy_(pseudoscience)|free energy]] ideas and devices like the [[Energy Catalyzer]] are presented on his website with the same enthusiasm as the latest alternative medicine fad.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input], Neev M. Arnell, Natural News May 19, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html Free Energy Technology Could Destroy the Natural World (But It Doesn't Have To)], Mike Adams, Natural News April 24,2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He collects news about [[chemtrails]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/chemtrails.html They have a whole category for chemtrails, in fact]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is a [[9/11 conspiracy theories|9/11 truther]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_911_truth_WTC_7.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [[birther]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/032217_Obama_birth_certificate.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and pretty much [[crank magnetism|everything else-er]]. And a [[Sandy Hook]] denialist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers [[Alex Jones]], [[Jeff Rense]], and [[David Icke]] to be &amp;quot;REAL heroes&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html This post puts much of his insanity on display in one place.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and Icke&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html David Icke on AIDS]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[whale.to]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026434_vaccine_vaccines_vaccination.html Five times in this article alone.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to be reliable sources. Naturally, he supports [[Ron Paul]] and &amp;quot;[[health freedom]]&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Ron_Paul.html Ron Paul articles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; despite simultaneously supporting health care reform and Cuba's health care system. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/021906_SiCKO_Michael_Moore.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He thinks [[Scientology]] (of which he is an ex-member) is treated unfairly.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000534_scientology_self_defense_swords.html Crazed Swordsman Attacks Scientology Guard Who Fires Back in Self Defense], Mike Adams, Natural News November 24, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000645_John_Travolta_Scientology_Freedom_of_Religion.html Baseless Accusations against John Travolta Demonstrate Cruelty, Intolerance of Pill Pushers and Religion Bashers], Mike Adams, Natural News January 5, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/ Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now], Orac, ''Respectful Insolence'', June 23rd, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; According to Adams, this is due to attempts by anti-religious bigots and (you guessed it) [[Big Pharma]] to oppress their belief system in order to protect their profits. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adams has also issued his informed opinion of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado [[Aurora shooting|&amp;quot;Batman&amp;quot; shootings]], declaring that they were &amp;quot;obviously&amp;quot; staged, or perhaps that the killer, James Holmes, was involved in &amp;quot;experimental&amp;quot; neuroscience that got out of hand.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Furthermore, also the 2013 attacks on the Boston marathon is reported to be a false flag operation by &amp;quot;private military contractors&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;conventional [[physics]]&amp;quot; is a conspiracy of the same sort as conventional medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E3B38227225F9FC62BAEA9CC81BE1D12 22 minutes of video woo]; [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/11/mike-adams-pretentious-git-sla/ PZ Myers takes you through it].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 2013 predictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of 2012, Adams put up a list of 20 &amp;quot;dark&amp;quot; predictions about 2013, which he believes to be &amp;quot;1984 on steroids&amp;quot;. Watch out, because if Adams is right (and that's a big ''if'', considering his predictions for 2012&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034566_2012_predictions_Mayan_calendar.html NaturalNews:2012 predictions]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;), the following were predicted to happen:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html 20 dark predictions for 2013, the year of oppression and insanity], Natural News&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Global economic collapse: &amp;quot;When record-low tax revenues are reported in April because of Obama's planned destruction of the U.S. economy, ratings organizations will downgrade U.S. debt, setting off a global selloff that could thrust America into a &amp;quot;nightmare&amp;quot; scenario of being unable to sell more debt&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Obama administration attempts to gut the Second Amendment&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Martial Law declared across America&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Extreme shortages of guns, ammo, magazines as their barter value skyrockets&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Tactical weapon strikes target Iran&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Massive false flag attack carried out in USA and blamed on patriots&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;DHS arms the TSA and begins insane abuses of Americans on roadway checkpoints&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Secret resistance groups begin to form across America&amp;quot; (which will be easy to verify, given that secret groups are usually well-documented, right?)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Attacks on the First Amendment accelerate as government seizes websites&amp;quot; (at least, the government will shut down NaturalNews and Alex Jones' Infowars site, apparently)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;The rise of violent rhetoric among the population as disagreements turn to threats&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Global government makes its move&amp;quot; – &amp;quot;Expect to see UN troops in U.S. cities before the end of 2015. The planned rollout of conflict in the USA is going to be followed by UN troops arriving on the scene to &amp;quot;rescue&amp;quot; the USA.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Accelerated mainstream media attacks on patriots, [[prepper|preppers]] and veterans&amp;quot; – because self-declared patriots are all [[Timothy McVeigh|peaceful people]].&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Disagreement with the government characterized a &amp;quot;mental disorder&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Continued rise in unemployment, food stamps, welfare as Obama accelerates deliberate destruction of U.S. economy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Criminalization of preparedness activities as government outlaws ammo storage of private citizens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Riots in the streets, followed by Martial Law&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Deliberate food shortages used as a weapon of government control&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Weather becomes even more radicalized, with droughts, floods, freezes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Solar weather gets nasty: Solar flares threaten communications&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;You will be told the answer to all our problems is &amp;quot;MORE government!&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Creative endeavors==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mike's cartoons ===&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more ridiculous features of NaturalNews is the cartoons by Mike Adams, which are even less entertaining than [[Mallard Fillmore]] or [[The Far Left Side]]. They are usually followed by paragraph after paragraph of the author having to explain the point of the cartoon to an audience who otherwise wouldn't find them &amp;quot;funny,&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029453_raw_milk_foods.html An example of this insult to good cartoonists]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; let alone be bothered to care. Thankfully he doesn't do much of the actual art.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Music===&lt;br /&gt;
More ridiculous still is the &amp;quot;Music&amp;quot; section on NaturalNews, where he posts hiphop videos and songs he wrote about the alternative quackery of the day. Most of the so-called &amp;quot;music&amp;quot; is cheap-sounding hiphop injected with Mike's screeds about how terrible vaccines and anti-depressants are.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Music.html Listen] if your ears dare.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Just like his cartoons, his hiphop postings are also followed by paragraphs of his own self-aggrandizement and boring explanations of his works for those who didn't care to listen to the actual song.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Twitter silliness ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2010, Adams was in the running for the Shorty Awards, basically a popularity contest for [[Twitter]] users. He had the most votes in the health category, and his fellow lunatic [[Joseph Mercola]] was closely behind. Skeptics decided to vote up Rachel Dunlop, a skeptic and doctor based in Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/this_must_not_come_to_pass_quacks_winnin.php Orac post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://assholeskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/01/mike-adams-cheater-hippocrite.html Asshole Skeptic post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Dunlop got to the top of the health charts. Adams and Mercola threw an Internet shit-fit and went vote-canvassing. Hundreds of their supporters turned up and set up new accounts to vote. Those votes were promptly disqualified as only ''existing'' accounts were allowed to vote. Adams was briefly put back into pole position, but then was disqualified after the fraudulent votes were removed. He got really angry about this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, Adams childishly posted a list of all the terrible things he believes that skeptics believe on NaturalNews, including:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Skeptics believe that many six-month-old infants need [[antidepressant]] drugs. In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an unlimited number of [[drugs]] all at the same time: Antidepressants, cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Skeptic]]s believe that the human body has no ability to defend itself against invading microorganism and that the only things that can save people from viral infections are [[vaccines]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028006_Shorty_Awards_vote_fraud.html His screed] about the shorty awards&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/sometimes_i_think_we_break_the.php Pharyngula's post] about the incident&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028012_skeptics_medicine.html Mike Adams] thinks he knows what skeptics believe&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this for Twitter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.naturalnews.com/ The site itself]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://tv.naturalnews.com/ NaturalNews TV] &amp;amp;mdash; for when you've run out of YouTube cranks&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&amp;amp;q=Mike+Adams+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Finsolence%2F&amp;amp;sa=Search Orac has been documenting his insanity for years;] a more specific page detailing his material on Adams can be found [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence?s=mike+adams here] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo-meisters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Alternative medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:High priority]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews</id>
		<title>NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:10:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* 2013 predictions */ Make it less dependent on time frame.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{altmed}}{{Bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''NaturalNews.com''' (formerly '''Newstarget''') is a website founded by '''Mike &amp;quot;the Health Ranger&amp;quot; Adams'''.  The site promotes almost every sort of medical [[woo]] known, though it specializes in [[vaccine denialism]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccine denial: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037653_vaccine_additives_thimerosal_formaldehyde.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035871_vaccination_immunization_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine-zombie.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; AIDS/[[HIV denial]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;AIDS/HIV denialism: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027354_AIDS_immune_system.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/028707_AIDS_epidemic.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027890_AIDS_test_HIV.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000646_AIDS_HIV_medical_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027355_AIDS_HIV.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Cancer#Quack_cancer_treatments|quack cancer medicine]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Cancer woo: [http://www.naturalnews.com/029917_prostate_cancer_PSA.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027481_prostate_cancer_baking_soda.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036458_cancer_remedies_blood_root_vitamin_D.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_Breast_Cancer_Deception_0.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035296_frankincense_cancer_natural_cure.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038235_lemon_extract_breast_cancer_tumor_cells.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037879_curcumin_cancer_cells_turmeric.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037944_ovarian_cancer_foods_medicine.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038071_cancer_sugar_sweets.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037216_cancer_cells_immune_system_bromelain.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027247_chaparral_cancer.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035471_skin_cancer_cure_eggplant.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]] about modern medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029901_pomegranate_juice_health_claims.html An example of said conspiracy theories]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Even other quacks think it's a quack site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/616-special-report-the-legend-of-mike-adams-and-the-reality.html Special Report: The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality] (Thomas Corriher and Sarah Cain, ''The Health Wyze Report'', 06 Feb 2013)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site has recently expanded its outlook to become an outlet for extreme [[environmentalism]] and conspiracy theorizing about [[Obama]] and [[gun control]].&lt;br /&gt;
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If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Health beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams is a flat-out opponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of modern medicine and opposes any medication&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/001967_good_medicine_pharmas.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or doctor visits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038707_executive_orders_doctors_health_care_spies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams calls himself a &amp;quot;holistic nutritionist&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Media.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and is a [[raw foodism|raw food]] proponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027858_raw_food_nutrition.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who opposes food that contains sugar,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022692_sugar_xylitol_stevia.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; food that was cooked&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036956_Rawpalooza_raw_food_diet.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or made to last,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037037_raw_food_diet_chemical_agriculture_antioxidants.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; meat,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/red_meat.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; sweeteners,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035752_artificial_sweeteners_flavor_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; glutamate,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; homogenized milk,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bread,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037361_sex_bread_gluten.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;white&amp;quot; flour,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/002700_white_flour_refined_grains.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; washing powder,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029580_laundry_detergent_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; deodorants,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000521_deodorants_personal_care_products_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; shampoo&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/003210_personal_care_products_shampoos.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and fluoride.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037236_sodium_fluoride_water_treatment_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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A recurring theme is the contrast between the site's exacting criticism of [[evidence-based medicine]] and its unquestioning acceptance of the [[appeal to nature]], [[New Age]] and [[alternative medicine]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029893_alternative_medicine_evidence.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; This often involves rejection of the [[scientific method|scientific method's]] application to medicine as &amp;quot;inherently flawed&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031962_science_vibrational_healing.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; repudiating the entire philosophy of modern medicine post-[[Louis Pasteur|Pasteur]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019334_health_drug_disease.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams is a firm [[germ theory denialism|germ theory denialist]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031254_Germ_Theory_hoax.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036219_germ_theory_human_body_bacteria.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also conflates evidence-based medicine in general, the failings of [[Big Pharma]] and the US health insurance system: to him, it's all a monolithic entity called &amp;quot;mainstream medicine&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028561_mainstream_medicine_health_care.html If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 12 April 2010); [https://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/ten-misconceptions-from-natural-news/ point-by-point skeptical response].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site blames the pharmaceutical industry for all vaguely drug-linked celebrity deaths rather than looking at any surrounding factors.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034944_Whitney_Houston_prescription_drugs_addiction.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034967_celebrities_pharmaceuticals_timeline.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/026511_cancer_chemotherapy_doctors.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The response to any alternative medicine claim, however, is blind acceptance, whether the topic at hand is [[homeopathy]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038096_homeopathy_whooping_cough_vaccines.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[chiropractic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/008845_American_Medical_Association_the_AMA.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[dental woo]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019414_dentistry_modern.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[aspartame]] scares,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035322_aspartame_sources_infographic.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[vitamin]] woo,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038649_parlor_tricks_illusion_government.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Vaccine hysteria|anti-vaccination panic]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or [[detox]] diets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029039_detox_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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==Medical conspiracy theories==&lt;br /&gt;
NaturalNews also features many [[Big Pharma]] conspiracy theories.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032088_mind_control_drugs.html Big Pharma Mind Control!]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/023857_chiropractic_AMA_the.html AMA conspiracy against chiropractic]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; There is no depth Big Pharma will not sink to, no [[Big Lie|lie too big for them to tell]], in order to poison American citizens and cover up their &amp;quot;junk science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022505_Vytorin_Merck.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams claims that the “pharmaceutical industry” is creating HIV vaccines with the ''sole purpose'' of creating as many “HIV positive people” as possible to sell anti-retroviral drugs to at a huge profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029236_HIV_vaccine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Mammographic screening creates cancer, which is then expensively treated for big profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/010886_breast_cancer_mammograms.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024901_mammograms_breast_cancer.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/025560_cancer_breast_women.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024857_cancer_women_mammography.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers that [[chemotherapy]] warrants criminal prosecution.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026305_medicine_child_chemotherapy.html The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser], Mike Adams, Natural News May 20, 2009, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023689.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/22/the-latest-scummy-tactic/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to '''be banned forever!'''&lt;br /&gt;
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More recent conspiracy theories claim that Bill Gates and Microsoft are in the process of developing weaponized, ethnically-targeted influenza viruses as part of a sinister eugenics plot.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also manages to misinterpret attempts to develop reversible forms of [[birth control|male contraceptives]] as deliberate attempts to permanently sterilize minorities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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His reaction to Angelina Jolie's preventive double mastectomy due to having the BRCA1 gene mutation was predictable; the quoted 87% probability that she would come down with breast cancer was irrelevant, since diet and lifestyle changes can magically suppress BRCA1 expression. And of course, ''oncologists'' are cast as the quacks here, not fine upstanding people like Adams.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.naturalnews.com/040349_Angelina_Jolie_breast_cancer_surgery.html How Angelina Jolie was duped by cancer doctors into self mutilation for breast cancer she never had,] naturalnews.net&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/15/quack-view-of-preventing-breast-cancer-versus-reality/ The quack view of preventing breast cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie,] Respectful Insolence, scienceblogs.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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== Non-medical conspiracy theories ==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' love for woo isn't restricted to medicine. [[Cold fusion]] and so-called [[Free_energy_(pseudoscience)|free energy]] ideas and devices like the [[Energy Catalyzer]] are presented on his website with the same enthusiasm as the latest alternative medicine fad.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input], Neev M. Arnell, Natural News May 19, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html Free Energy Technology Could Destroy the Natural World (But It Doesn't Have To)], Mike Adams, Natural News April 24,2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He collects news about [[chemtrails]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/chemtrails.html They have a whole category for chemtrails, in fact]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is a [[9/11 conspiracy theories|9/11 truther]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_911_truth_WTC_7.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [[birther]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/032217_Obama_birth_certificate.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and pretty much [[crank magnetism|everything else-er]]. And a [[Sandy Hook]] denialist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers [[Alex Jones]], [[Jeff Rense]], and [[David Icke]] to be &amp;quot;REAL heroes&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html This post puts much of his insanity on display in one place.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and Icke&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html David Icke on AIDS]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[whale.to]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026434_vaccine_vaccines_vaccination.html Five times in this article alone.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to be reliable sources. Naturally, he supports [[Ron Paul]] and &amp;quot;[[health freedom]]&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Ron_Paul.html Ron Paul articles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; despite simultaneously supporting health care reform and Cuba's health care system. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/021906_SiCKO_Michael_Moore.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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He thinks [[Scientology]] (of which he is an ex-member) is treated unfairly.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000534_scientology_self_defense_swords.html Crazed Swordsman Attacks Scientology Guard Who Fires Back in Self Defense], Mike Adams, Natural News November 24, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000645_John_Travolta_Scientology_Freedom_of_Religion.html Baseless Accusations against John Travolta Demonstrate Cruelty, Intolerance of Pill Pushers and Religion Bashers], Mike Adams, Natural News January 5, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/ Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now], Orac, ''Respectful Insolence'', June 23rd, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; According to Adams, this is due to attempts by anti-religious bigots and (you guessed it) [[Big Pharma]] to oppress their belief system in order to protect their profits. &lt;br /&gt;
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Adams has also issued his informed opinion of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado [[Aurora shooting|&amp;quot;Batman&amp;quot; shootings]], declaring that they were &amp;quot;obviously&amp;quot; staged, or perhaps that the killer, James Holmes, was involved in &amp;quot;experimental&amp;quot; neuroscience that got out of hand.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Furthermore, also the 2013 attacks on the Boston marathon is reported to be a false flag operation by &amp;quot;private military contractors&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, &amp;quot;conventional [[physics]]&amp;quot; is a conspiracy of the same sort as conventional medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E3B38227225F9FC62BAEA9CC81BE1D12 22 minutes of video woo]; [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/11/mike-adams-pretentious-git-sla/ PZ Myers takes you through it].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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== 2013 predictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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At the end of 2012, Adams put up a list of 20 &amp;quot;dark&amp;quot; predictions about 2013, which he believes to be &amp;quot;1984 on steroids&amp;quot;. Watch out, because if Adams is right (and that's a big ''if'', considering his predictions for 2012&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034566_2012_predictions_Mayan_calendar.html NaturalNews:2012 predictions]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;), the following were predicted to happen:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html 20 dark predictions for 2013, the year of oppression and insanity], Natural News&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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# Global economic collapse: &amp;quot;When record-low tax revenues are reported in April because of Obama's planned destruction of the U.S. economy, ratings organizations will downgrade U.S. debt, setting off a global selloff that could thrust America into a &amp;quot;nightmare&amp;quot; scenario of being unable to sell more debt&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Obama administration attempts to gut the Second Amendment&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Martial Law declared across America&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Extreme shortages of guns, ammo, magazines as their barter value skyrockets&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Tactical weapon strikes target Iran&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Massive false flag attack carried out in USA and blamed on patriots&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;DHS arms the TSA and begins insane abuses of Americans on roadway checkpoints&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Secret resistance groups begin to form across America&amp;quot; (which will be easy to verify, given that secret groups are usually well-documented, right?)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Attacks on the First Amendment accelerate as government seizes websites&amp;quot; (at least, the government will shut down NaturalNews and Alex Jones' Infowars site, apparently)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;The rise of violent rhetoric among the population as disagreements turn to threats&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Global government makes its move&amp;quot; – &amp;quot;Expect to see UN troops in U.S. cities before the end of 2015. The planned rollout of conflict in the USA is going to be followed by UN troops arriving on the scene to &amp;quot;rescue&amp;quot; the USA.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Accelerated mainstream media attacks on patriots, [[prepper|preppers]] and veterans&amp;quot; – because self-declared patriots are all [[Timothy McVeigh|peaceful people]].&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Disagreement with the government characterized a &amp;quot;mental disorder&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Continued rise in unemployment, food stamps, welfare as Obama accelerates deliberate destruction of U.S. economy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Criminalization of preparedness activities as government outlaws ammo storage of private citizens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Riots in the streets, followed by Martial Law&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Deliberate food shortages used as a weapon of government control&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Weather becomes even more radicalized, with droughts, floods, freezes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Solar weather gets nasty: Solar flares threaten communications&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;You will be told the answer to all our problems is &amp;quot;MORE government!&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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==Creative endeavors==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mike's cartoons ===&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more ridiculous features of NaturalNews is the cartoons by Mike Adams, which are even less entertaining than [[Mallard Fillmore]] or [[The Far Left Side]]. They are usually followed by paragraph after paragraph of the author having to explain the point of the cartoon to an audience who otherwise wouldn't find them &amp;quot;funny,&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029453_raw_milk_foods.html An example of this insult to good cartoonists]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; let alone be bothered to care. Thankfully he doesn't do much of the actual art.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Music===&lt;br /&gt;
More ridiculous still is the &amp;quot;Music&amp;quot; section on NaturalNews, where he posts hiphop videos and songs he wrote about the alternative quackery of the day. Most of the so-called &amp;quot;music&amp;quot; is cheap-sounding hiphop injected with Mike's screeds about how terrible vaccines and anti-depressants are.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Music.html Listen] if your ears dare.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Just like his cartoons, his hiphop postings are also followed by paragraphs of his own self-aggrandizement and boring explanations of his works for those who didn't care to listen to the actual song.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Poetry===&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' creativity is unbounded.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In a downward direction. [http://www.naturalnews.com/034764_imprison_us_all_poem_Mike_Adams.html  To imprison us all] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 25 January 2012)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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== Twitter silliness ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2010, Adams was in the running for the Shorty Awards, basically a popularity contest for [[Twitter]] users. He had the most votes in the health category, and his fellow lunatic [[Joseph Mercola]] was closely behind. Skeptics decided to vote up Rachel Dunlop, a skeptic and doctor based in Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/this_must_not_come_to_pass_quacks_winnin.php Orac post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://assholeskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/01/mike-adams-cheater-hippocrite.html Asshole Skeptic post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Eventually, Dunlop got to the top of the health charts. Adams and Mercola threw an Internet shit-fit and went vote-canvassing. Hundreds of their supporters turned up and set up new accounts to vote. Those votes were promptly disqualified as only ''existing'' accounts were allowed to vote. Adams was briefly put back into pole position, but then was disqualified after the fraudulent votes were removed. He got really angry about this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, Adams childishly posted a list of all the terrible things he believes that skeptics believe on NaturalNews, including:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Skeptics believe that many six-month-old infants need [[antidepressant]] drugs. In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an unlimited number of [[drugs]] all at the same time: Antidepressants, cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Skeptic]]s believe that the human body has no ability to defend itself against invading microorganism and that the only things that can save people from viral infections are [[vaccines]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028006_Shorty_Awards_vote_fraud.html His screed] about the shorty awards&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/sometimes_i_think_we_break_the.php Pharyngula's post] about the incident&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028012_skeptics_medicine.html Mike Adams] thinks he knows what skeptics believe&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this for Twitter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.naturalnews.com/ The site itself]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://tv.naturalnews.com/ NaturalNews TV] &amp;amp;mdash; for when you've run out of YouTube cranks&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&amp;amp;q=Mike+Adams+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Finsolence%2F&amp;amp;sa=Search Orac has been documenting his insanity for years;] a more specific page detailing his material on Adams can be found [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence?s=mike+adams here] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo-meisters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Alternative medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:High priority]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:NaturalNews</id>
		<title>Talk:NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:06:26Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Silver? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{rated&lt;br /&gt;
|1 = 2&lt;br /&gt;
|2 = Alternative medicine&lt;br /&gt;
|4 = HIGH&lt;br /&gt;
|5 = &lt;br /&gt;
*Needs more detailed and serious takedown&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
I read your trashing of naturalnews.com.  Maybe you should try citing specifics and then showing footnoted references instead of merely trashing him.{{unsigned|90.55.104.112}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Glad to know you're a fan! [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#CC0000&amp;quot; size=&amp;quot;3&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''ADK'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#330033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;...I'll exemplify ''your'' diesel engine!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:28, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Shouldn't we just move this to [[Talk:NaturalNews]]?  {{user:Aboriginal Noise/sig}} 00:30, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Certainly. [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#CC0000&amp;quot; size=&amp;quot;3&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''ADK'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#330033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;...I'll feel ''your'' suicidal lemming!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Done. (duh).  {{user:Aboriginal Noise/sig}} 00:33, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Don't we have a better sidebar template for this?  I will check. {{User:Human/sig|}} 02:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
This article is highly biased and unprofessional. It's more a rant then an objectieve observation with pros and cons. So it is far from &amp;quot;rational&amp;quot;. My advise: start over again with a different writer.{{unsig|Rightstuff9}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Naturally (no pun intended), some specifics would help. Also, you should check out our [[RationalWiki:Mission|mission]] and our [[RationalWiki:SPOV|point of view]]. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 13:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This article is highly biased and unprofessional. It's more a rant then an objectieve observation with pros and cons. So it is far from &amp;quot;rational&amp;quot;. My advise: start over again with a different writer. Guess the work RNS has to undo so many comments, I'm not the only one.  Wishing you pleasure with this UNrational WIKI.&lt;br /&gt;
::Hooray for [[ad hominem]] attacks! ''Drink!'' [[User:Conservative Punk|Conservative Punk]] ([[User talk:Conservative Punk|talk]])&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{RATIONALWiki}} [[User:Rpeh|rpeh]]&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:xx-small&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;•[[User_Talk:Rpeh|T]]•[[Special:Contributions/Rpeh|C]]•[[Special:Emailuser/Rpeh|E]]•&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 13:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
== Substance? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just happened upon the naturalnews.com website today. I thought I would google the name to see if I could find anything critical out there to get a counterbalance of the perspective espoused there. I found this page. It's quite obvious the writer of this page is hostile to the views expressed there. I would be more convinced of his arguments if he bothered to support any of them. Simply stating someone is a quack is not very useful to those not pre-disposed to the author's point of view. I would suggest spending some time actually researching the claims and refuting them and less time resorting to juvenile ad-hominem attacks. {{unsigned|Unclesol}}&lt;br /&gt;
:That's what the blue links are for. Also, it's hard to describe a site that uses a guy who thinks the planet is ruled by shapeshifting alien reptoids from another dimension as an &amp;quot;expert&amp;quot; as anything but stone cold fuck nuts. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 17:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Polishing up ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another social-networking acquaintance who is actually quite smart has referenced a NaturalNews article as if the site isn't pernicious bilge that makes the Daily Mail look like Britannica. I suggest this article is rather important and needs to become a longer and more serious smackdown of NaturalNews suitable for referring people to - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== High priority ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Natural News is rising in popularity and is bat shit insane. Searching for the site we are the only high ranking skeptical material about it. Would be really good to expand this article. What directions should we take with it do you think? [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] ([[User talk:Tmtoulouse|talk]]) 16:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Merge [[Mike Adams]] so it's all in the same place. Anyone looking for one also wants the other - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 21:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::No objections? Merging - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I think it works much better and more informatively as a merged article. Needs a bit of polishing up. References for every claim with captures, that sort of thing. External links section really needs winnowing and/or digesting too - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think the article needs more direct quotes from NaturalNews and Mike Adams inserted somewhere. Also, if we could see about maybe posting a page capture of one of their weakly cartoons, that might be hilarious (though we might want to look into their copyrights before we do so). {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 11:23, 31 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Need more feedback on this article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd really like this to be a front-page article, given its level of importance to the Wiki (as Trent states above, it's high priority; We are the #1 ranked skeptic of NaturalNews). What I really need is for some good old-fashioned feedback on this article: What can be done to improve it, what needs changing, and, most importantly, what needs to be done to get this to &amp;quot;Gold&amp;quot; status, etc? Any comments and help from the community would be greatly appreciated. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 13:01, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm not really comfortable with the article rating system but I would agree that this article needs to be front page. One of the reasons I finally created an account was because my in-laws started repeating some of the outrageous idiocy on this site. [[User:ORavenhurst|Omar]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:ORavenhurst|gibber]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 13:58, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Good question. It's not even a silver yet. Needs ... moar. What else has Mike Adams done out in the big world? What reasonably-documented malign influence has NaturalNews actually had in the real world, as opposed to just trying to have had? I've seen sane friends reference it like it's an actual source ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:00, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Mine some of those external links for content? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 14:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Sounds good. Thank for the feedback. I knew it needed, as David so aptly put, &amp;quot;moar.&amp;quot; I just was stuck in a rut and had no idea where to go from here. This helps. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 14:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Idiocy ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see you all support big pharma then? Since you like to 'trash' naturalnews ( running scared from it more like ), aspartame is dangerous, vitamins are vital, fluoride is not good for you etc...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The article seems childish, no wonder no one takes you seriously.{{unsig|86.11.102.64}}&lt;br /&gt;
:[[False dichotomy]].--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 10:13, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If we were running scared from them, then why would we write an article critical of them? Seriously, if we were &amp;quot;running scared,&amp;quot; then we wouldn't be calling them out on their [[woo]]. {{User:Reckless Noise Symphony/sig2}} 12:46, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Cause Big pharam gave us some of their super mind control pills. [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:Grey&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Тyrannis&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:grey&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Plead&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:49, 2 June 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Aurora Colorado shooting conspiracy ==&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if anything should be included about his conspiracies relating to the Aurora Colorado shooting. &lt;br /&gt;
He has certainly gone way out in left field to write this http://www.prisonplanet.com/colorado-batman-shooting-shows-obvious-signs-of-being-staged.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Special:Contributions/98.180.3.22|98.180.3.22]] ([[User talk:98.180.3.22|talk]]) 07:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes! It should certainly be added to this article. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 12:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== This is sillier than Ray Comfort's banana video ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Seriously, is Mike Adams [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zQ83fhKQ0M&amp;amp;playnext=1&amp;amp;list=PLK2yCXwKlnGE-HKyrHsDpHmQ8TKhccTFI&amp;amp;feature=results_video really this stupid???] [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Blog post with detailed, point-by-point citations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://rationalblogs.org/rationalwiki/2013/03/15/mike-adams-naturalnews-the-daily-mail-of-alternative-medicine/] I should backport all the cites to Mike Adams actually saying this shit, but this post took hours and turned my brain to all-natural raw food guacamole. So anyone else should feel free to - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 21:29, 15 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Of course, no-one did. So I did. It's referred to the hilt now. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:12, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Wouldn't one need to login to your blog account to do that?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 17:05, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Nah, I did it by c'n'ping appropriate text here and going right-click, &amp;quot;Copy link&amp;quot;, paste into ref tags. Laborious but effective. HARD WORK AND ELBOW GREASE. (The blog post is in HTML, not wikitext, so it would have to be done by hand anyway. But you can get pretty much the blog source with &amp;quot;view source&amp;quot; on the web page.) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 22:30, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That is one huge deluge of dumb. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 22:58, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I just realized you meant adding the citations ''to the article'' (and not to the blog post). DOH!--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 00:12, 17 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: :-) Yeah, the process of turning articles into blog posts involves more or less ref-checking and rewriting, and all that should be backported to the wiki ... when I or anyone get around to it, and I made a special effort in this case 'cos NaturalNews is so pervasively noxious - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 08:51, 17 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Silver?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What's this need for silver? The 2013 and Twitter bits are a bit bulgy. Is there anything missing? I believe naturalnews.com was or is in the Wikipedia spam filter - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 15:23, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:A little more spit and polish might bump this thing up some more. Once my classes are over and I have more time freed up, I'm gonna give this another look over. We could really use this as a top article on the Wiki, IMO. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ban-scare articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''''There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to be '''banned forever!'''&amp;quot;'' - I do remember articles like this, but there don't seem to have been any in the past month or two. Do we have citable examples? Else this is oddly bare, with everything else cited - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 16:12, 16 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Stormfront</id>
		<title>Stormfront</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Stormfront"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T09:03:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Undo revision 1195503 by 80.6.186.74 (talk) Meh&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Stormfront''' is the largest [[Neo-Nazi]] and [[white supremacist]] message board on the internet. It was founded by [[Don Black]], a former [[KKK]] and [[American Nazi Party]] member. In its own words: &amp;quot;A [[racism|Racialist]] discussion board for pro-White activists and anyone else interested in White survival&amp;quot;. That’s fairly telling, to be honest.  They use [[Fraktur]] fonts - which were actually banned in 1941 by the [[Nazism|Nazis]] themselves - to evoke an image of Germany and, in another shocking display of ignorance, use a long &amp;quot;s&amp;quot; in the place of an &amp;quot;f&amp;quot; in their header logo. Their emblem is a Celtic cross, which often is used as a symbol by white supremacists, and is consequently illegal in Germany. It shares a lot of its userbase with [[Metapedia]].  In a supreme fit of irony, while they use the Fraktur font banned in 1941 by the Nazis, they ban display or use of the [[swastika]].  You figure it out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[David Duke]] is known to hang out there these days. His ex-wife actually founded the site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;According to [[WP:David_Duke#Stormfront | Wikipedia]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For a brief time, one could find their antics recorded at &amp;quot;[[RationalWiki:What is going on in the Fourth Reich?|What is going on in the Fourth Reich?]]&amp;quot;, until we got bored of their lack of interesting activity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is a fun place to troll&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://encyclopediadramatica.se/Stormfront#How_to_troll_Stormfront&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, and it is unknown how many people there are trolls or actually serious. Stormfront members' primary topics and likings are flaunting about how the white race is superior, historical revisionism, [[Holocaust denial]], vehemently opposing racial mixing, and last, but not least, in a shocking display of racial betrayal, listening to rock music (which originated from blues, a style originally conceived and played by black people).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stormfront was also the subject of a documentary film, ''Hate.com: Extremists on the Internet''.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/600876.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.stormfront.org/forum/ Enter the Reich] ([[NSFW]])&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Extreme wingnuttery]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Internet kooks]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Racism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[category:Internet hate sites]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{stub|racism}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews</id>
		<title>NaturalNews</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews"/>
				<updated>2013-05-19T08:41:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Undo revision 1195217 by 67.22.245.243 (talk) Thanks, but those categories really don't help.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{altmed}}{{Bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''NaturalNews.com''' (formerly '''Newstarget''') is a website founded by '''Mike &amp;quot;the Health Ranger&amp;quot; Adams'''.  The site promotes almost every sort of medical [[woo]] known, though it specializes in [[vaccine denialism]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccine denial: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037653_vaccine_additives_thimerosal_formaldehyde.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/039116_children_harmed_vaccines.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035871_vaccination_immunization_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine-zombie.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; AIDS/[[HIV denial]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;AIDS/HIV denialism: [http://www.naturalnews.com/027631_AIDS_House_of_Numbers.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027354_AIDS_immune_system.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/028707_AIDS_epidemic.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027890_AIDS_test_HIV.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000646_AIDS_HIV_medical_myths.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027355_AIDS_HIV.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Cancer#Quack_cancer_treatments|quack cancer medicine]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Cancer woo: [http://www.naturalnews.com/029917_prostate_cancer_PSA.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027481_prostate_cancer_baking_soda.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/036458_cancer_remedies_blood_root_vitamin_D.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_Breast_Cancer_Deception_0.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035296_frankincense_cancer_natural_cure.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038235_lemon_extract_breast_cancer_tumor_cells.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037879_curcumin_cancer_cells_turmeric.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037944_ovarian_cancer_foods_medicine.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/038071_cancer_sugar_sweets.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/037216_cancer_cells_immune_system_bromelain.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/027247_chaparral_cancer.html] [http://www.naturalnews.com/035471_skin_cancer_cure_eggplant.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]] about modern medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029901_pomegranate_juice_health_claims.html An example of said conspiracy theories]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Even other quacks think it's a quack site.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/616-special-report-the-legend-of-mike-adams-and-the-reality.html Special Report: The Legend of Mike Adams and the Reality] (Thomas Corriher and Sarah Cain, ''The Health Wyze Report'', 06 Feb 2013)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site has recently expanded its outlook to become an outlet for extreme [[environmentalist]] and other [[moonbat]]-related woo and conspiracy theorizing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Health beliefs==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams is a flat-out opponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of modern medicine and opposes any medication&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/001967_good_medicine_pharmas.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or doctor visits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038707_executive_orders_doctors_health_care_spies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams calls himself a &amp;quot;holistic nutritionist&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Media.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and is a [[raw foodism|raw food]] proponent&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027858_raw_food_nutrition.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who opposes food that contains sugar,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022692_sugar_xylitol_stevia.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; food that was cooked&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036956_Rawpalooza_raw_food_diet.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or made to last,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037037_raw_food_diet_chemical_agriculture_antioxidants.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;red&amp;quot; meat,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/red_meat.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; sweeteners,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035752_artificial_sweeteners_flavor_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; glutamate,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035555_Russell_Blaylock_interview_excitotoxins.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; homogenized milk,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bread,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037361_sex_bread_gluten.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;quot;white&amp;quot; flour,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/002700_white_flour_refined_grains.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; washing powder,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029580_laundry_detergent_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; deodorants,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000521_deodorants_personal_care_products_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; shampoo&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/003210_personal_care_products_shampoos.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and fluoride.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/037236_sodium_fluoride_water_treatment_toxic_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recurring theme is the contrast between the site's exacting criticism of [[evidence-based medicine]] and its unquestioning acceptance of the [[appeal to nature]], [[New Age]] and [[alternative medicine]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029893_alternative_medicine_evidence.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; This often involves rejection of the [[scientific method|scientific method's]] application to medicine as &amp;quot;inherently flawed&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031962_science_vibrational_healing.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; repudiating the entire philosophy of modern medicine post-[[Louis Pasteur|Pasteur]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019334_health_drug_disease.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams is a firm [[germ theory denialism|germ theory denialist]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/031254_Germ_Theory_hoax.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022332_disease_medicine_germs.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036219_germ_theory_human_body_bacteria.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also conflates evidence-based medicine in general, the failings of [[Big Pharma]] and the US health insurance system: to him, it's all a monolithic entity called &amp;quot;mainstream medicine&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028561_mainstream_medicine_health_care.html If mainstream medicine really works, why are Americans so unhealthy?] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 12 April 2010); [https://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/ten-misconceptions-from-natural-news/ point-by-point skeptical response].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The site blames the pharmaceutical industry for all vaguely drug-linked celebrity deaths rather than looking at any surrounding factors.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034944_Whitney_Houston_prescription_drugs_addiction.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023817.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/034967_celebrities_pharmaceuticals_timeline.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/026511_cancer_chemotherapy_doctors.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The response to any alternative medicine claim, however, is blind acceptance, whether the topic at hand is [[homeopathy]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038096_homeopathy_whooping_cough_vaccines.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[chiropractic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/008845_American_Medical_Association_the_AMA.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[dental woo]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/019414_dentistry_modern.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[aspartame]] scares,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/035322_aspartame_sources_infographic.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[vitamin]] woo,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038649_parlor_tricks_illusion_government.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Vaccine hysteria|anti-vaccination panic]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; or [[detox]] diets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029039_detox_chemicals.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Medical conspiracy theories==&lt;br /&gt;
NaturalNews also features many [[Big Pharma]] conspiracy theories.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032088_mind_control_drugs.html Big Pharma Mind Control!]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/023857_chiropractic_AMA_the.html AMA conspiracy against chiropractic]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; There is no depth Big Pharma will not sink to, no [[Big Lie|lie too big for them to tell]], in order to poison American citizens and cover up their &amp;quot;junk science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/022505_Vytorin_Merck.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Adams claims that the “pharmaceutical industry” is creating HIV vaccines with the ''sole purpose'' of creating as many “HIV positive people” as possible to sell anti-retroviral drugs to at a huge profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/029236_HIV_vaccine.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Mammographic screening creates cancer, which is then expensively treated for big profit.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/010886_breast_cancer_mammograms.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024901_mammograms_breast_cancer.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/025560_cancer_breast_women.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/024857_cancer_women_mammography.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers that [[chemotherapy]] warrants criminal prosecution.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026305_medicine_child_chemotherapy.html The Quackery of Chemotherapy, Gunpoint Medicine and the Disturbing Fate of 13-Year-Old Daniel Hauser], Mike Adams, Natural News May 20, 2009, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/023689.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/08/22/the-latest-scummy-tactic/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's also usually a front page article about how some loophole in an obscure new law or regulation will enable alternative medicine or natural supplements to '''be banned forever!'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More recent conspiracy theories claim that Bill Gates and Microsoft are in the process of developing weaponized, ethnically-targeted influenza viruses as part of a sinister eugenics plot.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Adams also manages to misinterpret attempts to develop reversible forms of [[birth control|male contraceptives]] as deliberate attempts to permanently sterilize minorities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His reaction to Angelina Jolie's preventive double mastectomy due to having the BRCA1 gene mutation was predictable; the quoted 87% probability that she would come down with breast cancer was irrelevant, since diet and lifestyle changes can magically suppress BRCA1 expression. And of course, ''oncologists'' are cast as the quacks here, not fine upstanding people like Adams.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.naturalnews.com/040349_Angelina_Jolie_breast_cancer_surgery.html How Angelina Jolie was duped by cancer doctors into self mutilation for breast cancer she never had,] naturalnews.net&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/15/quack-view-of-preventing-breast-cancer-versus-reality/ The quack view of preventing breast cancer versus reality and Angelina Jolie,] Respectful Insolence, scienceblogs.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Non-medical conspiracy theories ==&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' love for woo isn't restricted to medicine. [[Cold fusion]] and so-called [[Free_energy_(pseudoscience)|free energy]] ideas and devices like the [[Energy Catalyzer]] are presented on his website with the same enthusiasm as the latest alternative medicine fad.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html E-Cat Cold fusion device independently validated producing 800% more energy than input], Neev M. Arnell, Natural News May 19, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026116_energy_free_population.html Free Energy Technology Could Destroy the Natural World (But It Doesn't Have To)], Mike Adams, Natural News April 24,2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He collects news about [[chemtrails]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/chemtrails.html They have a whole category for chemtrails, in fact]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is a [[9/11 conspiracy theories|9/11 truther]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/033684_911_truth_WTC_7.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [[birther]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/032217_Obama_birth_certificate.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and pretty much [[crank magnetism|everything else-er]]. And a [[Sandy Hook]] denialist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_11.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers [[Alex Jones]], [[Jeff Rense]], and [[David Icke]] to be &amp;quot;REAL heroes.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/032293_gullible_minds.html This post puts much of his insanity on display in one place.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He considers David Icke&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/027922_AIDS_David_Icke.html David Icke on AIDS]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and [[whale.to]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/026434_vaccine_vaccines_vaccination.html Five times in this article alone.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; reliable sources. Naturally, he supports [[Ron Paul]] and &amp;quot;[[health freedom]]&amp;quot;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Ron_Paul.html Ron Paul articles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; despite simultaneously supporting health care reform and Cuba's health care system. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/021906_SiCKO_Michael_Moore.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He thinks [[Scientology]] (of which he is an ex-member) is treated unfairly.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000534_scientology_self_defense_swords.html Crazed Swordsman Attacks Scientology Guard Who Fires Back in Self Defense], Mike Adams, Natural News November 24, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000645_John_Travolta_Scientology_Freedom_of_Religion.html Baseless Accusations against John Travolta Demonstrate Cruelty, Intolerance of Pill Pushers and Religion Bashers], Mike Adams, Natural News January 5, 2011, retrieved 2011-05-21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/23/scientology-and-mike-adams-it-all-become/ Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now], Orac, ''Respectful Insolence'', June 23rd, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; According to Adams, this is due to attempts by anti-religious bigots and (you guessed it) [[Big Pharma]] to oppress their belief system in order to protect their profits. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Adams has also issued his informed opinion of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado [[Aurora shooting|&amp;quot;Batman&amp;quot; shootings]], declaring that they were &amp;quot;obviously&amp;quot; staged, or perhaps that the killer, James Holmes, was involved in &amp;quot;experimental&amp;quot; neuroscience that got out of hand.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Furthermore, also the 2013 attacks on the Boston marathon is reported to be a false flag operation by &amp;quot;private military contractors&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;conventional [[physics]]&amp;quot; is a conspiracy of the same sort as conventional medicine.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=E3B38227225F9FC62BAEA9CC81BE1D12 22 minutes of video woo]; [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/11/mike-adams-pretentious-git-sla/ PZ Myers takes you through it].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 2013 predictions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of 2012, Adams put up a list of 20 &amp;quot;dark&amp;quot; predictions about 2013, which he believes to be &amp;quot;1984 on steroids&amp;quot;. Watch out, because if Adams is right (and that's a big ''if'', considering his predictions for 2012&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/034566_2012_predictions_Mayan_calendar.html NaturalNews:2012 predictions]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;), the following are going to happen:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/038512_2013_predictions_insanity.html 20 dark predictions for 2013, the year of oppression and insanity], Natural News&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Global economic collapse: &amp;quot;When record-low tax revenues are reported in April because of Obama's planned destruction of the U.S. economy, ratings organizations will downgrade U.S. debt, setting off a global selloff that could thrust America into a &amp;quot;nightmare&amp;quot; scenario of being unable to sell more debt&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Obama administration attempts to gut the Second Amendment&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Martial Law declared across America&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Extreme shortages of guns, ammo, magazines as their barter value skyrockets&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Tactical weapon strikes target Iran&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Massive false flag attack carried out in USA and blamed on patriots&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;DHS arms the TSA and begins insane abuses of Americans on roadway checkpoints&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Secret resistance groups begin to form across America&amp;quot; (which will be easy to verify, given that secret groups are usually well-documented, right?)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Attacks on the First Amendment accelerate as government seizes websites&amp;quot; (at least, the government will shut down NaturalNews and Alex Jones' Infowars site, apparently)&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;The rise of violent rhetoric among the population as disagreements turn to threats&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Global government makes its move&amp;quot; – &amp;quot;Expect to see UN troops in U.S. cities before the end of 2015. The planned rollout of conflict in the USA is going to be followed by UN troops arriving on the scene to &amp;quot;rescue&amp;quot; the USA.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Accelerated mainstream media attacks on patriots, [[prepper|preppers]] and veterans&amp;quot; – because self-declared patriots are all [[Timothy McVeigh|peaceful people]].&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Disagreement with the government characterized a &amp;quot;mental disorder&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Continued rise in unemployment, food stamps, welfare as Obama accelerates deliberate destruction of U.S. economy&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Criminalization of preparedness activities as government outlaws ammo storage of private citizens&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Riots in the streets, followed by Martial Law&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Deliberate food shortages used as a weapon of government control&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Weather becomes even more radicalized, with droughts, floods, freezes&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;Solar weather gets nasty: Solar flares threaten communications&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
# &amp;quot;You will be told the answer to all our problems is &amp;quot;MORE government!&amp;quot;&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Creative endeavors==&lt;br /&gt;
=== Mike's cartoons ===&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more ridiculous features of NaturalNews is the cartoons by Mike Adams, which are even less entertaining than [[Mallard Fillmore]] or [[The Far Left Side]]. They are usually followed by paragraph after paragraph of the author having to explain the point of the cartoon to an audience who otherwise wouldn't find them &amp;quot;funny,&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/029453_raw_milk_foods.html An example of this insult to good cartoonists]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; let alone be bothered to care. Thankfully he doesn't do much of the actual art.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Music===&lt;br /&gt;
More ridiculous still is the &amp;quot;Music&amp;quot; section on NaturalNews, where he posts hiphop videos and songs he wrote about the alternative quackery of the day. Most of the so-called &amp;quot;music&amp;quot; is cheap-sounding hiphop injected with Mike's screeds about how terrible vaccines and anti-depressants are.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/Index-Music.html Listen] if your ears dare.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Just like his cartoons, his hiphop postings are also followed by paragraphs of his own self-aggrandizement and boring explanations of his works for those who didn't care to listen to the actual song.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Poetry===&lt;br /&gt;
Adams' creativity is unbounded.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In a downward direction. [http://www.naturalnews.com/034764_imprison_us_all_poem_Mike_Adams.html  To imprison us all] (Mike Adams, NaturalNews, 25 January 2012)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Twitter silliness ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2010, Adams was in the running for the Shorty Awards, basically a popularity contest for [[Twitter]] users. He had the most votes in the health category, and his fellow lunatic [[Joseph Mercola]] was closely behind. Skeptics decided to vote up Rachel Dunlop, a skeptic and doctor based in Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/this_must_not_come_to_pass_quacks_winnin.php Orac post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://assholeskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/01/mike-adams-cheater-hippocrite.html Asshole Skeptic post]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, Dunlop got to the top of the health charts. Adams and Mercola threw an Internet shit-fit and went vote-canvassing. Hundreds of their supporters turned up and set up new accounts to vote. Those votes were promptly disqualified as only ''existing'' accounts were allowed to vote. Adams was briefly put back into pole position, but then was disqualified after the fraudulent votes were removed. He got really angry about this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shortly thereafter, Adams childishly posted a list of all the terrible things he believes that skeptics believe on NaturalNews, including:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Skeptics believe that many six-month-old infants need [[antidepressant]] drugs. In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an unlimited number of [[drugs]] all at the same time: Antidepressants, cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously!&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;[[Skeptic]]s believe that the human body has no ability to defend itself against invading microorganism and that the only things that can save people from viral infections are [[vaccines]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028006_Shorty_Awards_vote_fraud.html His screed] about the shorty awards&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/sometimes_i_think_we_break_the.php Pharyngula's post] about the incident&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.naturalnews.com/028012_skeptics_medicine.html Mike Adams] thinks he knows what skeptics believe&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this for Twitter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.naturalnews.com/ The site itself]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://tv.naturalnews.com/ NaturalNews TV] &amp;amp;mdash; for when you've run out of YouTube cranks&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&amp;amp;q=Mike+Adams+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Finsolence%2F&amp;amp;sa=Search Orac has been documenting his insanity for years;] a more specific page detailing his material on Adams can be found [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence?s=mike+adams here] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Websites]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Woo-meisters]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Alternative medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:High priority]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Reckless_Noise_Symphony</id>
		<title>User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Reckless_Noise_Symphony"/>
				<updated>2013-05-15T07:00:21Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* To physics or not to physics, that it the question. */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{DISPLAYTITLE:{{{1|Welcome to the talkpage of RationalWiki's most blocked editor!'''}}}}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony/LQT archive|LQT archive]] from back when that sort of thing was hip.&lt;br /&gt;
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== stuff ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://theadvocate.com/home/5345650-125/assumption-sinkhole-case-draws-brockovich oh ho ho.] [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Ty&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;JFBAA&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm not a fan of Erin Brockovich. While she has done good things and I don't dislike her as a person, she perpetuates a lot of the bullshit and woo that comes with being a member of the hard green movement. Grant you, little of this has to do with the sinkhole, but every time I hear the name Erin Brockovich, I cringe a little. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:20, 6 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm more curious as to the reaction of the LA populace ;) [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Ty&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;JFBAA&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:38, 6 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Touchy feely stuff ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey mate, I know you don't know who I am from a bar of soap, but I just wanted to say I consider you one of the most level-headed, reasonable, intelligent and all-round nice guys at this wiki. The failure of RWW has been talked up a little bit around the place; I think you made the right decision in the end, but let's not deny it provided some good belly laughs and it was a neat idea at one stage. It was no reflection on you that it ended up being a bit of a snark-fest and I wouldn't want you to catastrophise it as a lead weight around the neck of RW or anything. What I'm trying to say is: if you take the failure of RWW a little personally then you shouldn't. If you hadn't then I'm sorry for suggesting that you might ;) [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 11:41, 8 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, I do take the failure personally, but I'm not going to get into that right now. It was useful back in the day; back ''before'' people decided that the best way to deal with those they don't like here is to treat them and the things they care about like shit instead of just ignoring them and letting them go their merry way. I'm not singling out one or even a group of editors in that remark. It is the reality of what the RW community seems to be these days. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 11:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree with what Tielec said. FWIW if you ever think there might be a core of people who want to take RW in a more positive direction, let me know. I'm very attached to the place, despite how toxic it is. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 11:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::To be honest, the only reason I've been here for as long as I have is not at all because I like the people here. On the contrary, the community pisses me off to no end. But, I'm 100% committed to the mission, and really truly that seems to be the only reason I stick around. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 06:49, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That's my attitude entirely as well. Oh well, I suppose if enough of us gather together, then WE will be the community, and then the complaints will become moot. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I also still stick to the creed of an old crew I used to hang around with, &amp;quot;If any scene sucks, it's because you suck for not making it better.&amp;quot; I guess that also adds to my reasons for not abandoning RW completely. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Piling on the touchy-feely stuff, I hadn't hit your userpage since you made that February edit that you undid just a little back. Regarding the substance abuse stuff, hang in there, man, and take as much time as you need away from RW if that's what you need. We might be a collective of snarky jerks, but we're all still human, and I at least hope I'm not the only one still capable of expressing compassion and sympathy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've never personally struggled with substance abuse problems, but my grandfather was a severe alcoholic, such that I didn't get to visit much (travel was also expensive, but I suspect my parents weren't too inclined to bring lil' me out there). You've got our support (anyone who doesn't want to support RNS, take it to my talk page so I can bitch you out properly). As with any habit/problem in life, take it one day at a time. I apologize if this is perhaps too forward, but there's times when you just need to cut through the bullshit and speak straight. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotonaprinceps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokÃÂ©mon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 08:15, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks. Back story to that: I've been completely and utterly stressed out and bothered by some family shit and work shit for a while, and was slowly slipping into a world of alcoholism and pain med abuse for, at least, 6 months. To be honest, my very public fight with Nutty Roux back in January(?) where I lost my shit an embarrassed the fuck out of myself was one of a list of things that brought that to a head for me. There were other things, too. All of which caused one of my closest friends to approach and ask &amp;quot;Are you OK? Are you whacked out or have you just become a fuckwad?&amp;quot; Well, that's when I kinda had an emotional breakdown and told him about the shit that was on my mind, and promised to seek help. I've been stone-cold sober for a little over a month now, and talked to my doctor about my abuse of the pain meds I was on (mostly hydrocodone for chronic back issues) and we worked it out. I'm also trying to work on moving here soon (albeit not too far, but just far enough) so I can be further away from what's causing my angst at the moment. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 08:26, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Good job on the sobriety! Just don't look back, always step forward.  [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotonaprinceps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokÃÂ©mon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 08:53, 12 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== response ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Personally, I don't like Thunderf00t - I find him irascible and overly preachy. However, when I came to this site to read up on the controversy over Freethoughtblogs, I was instantly turned off by the extreme degree of opinionation plaguing the article, which I attempted to minimize. The things in that article (which are all pointed out in talk page under &amp;quot;poor quality&amp;quot; made me immediately view the entirety of RationalWiki as unreliable. If you were to attempt to be more objective (regardless of your personal opinions), you might not come off in such a pathetic manner. Regardless, I don't plan on spending much time referencing this site, and will do what I can to spread the word among my atheist social group about the poor quality of this site.&lt;br /&gt;
:You say that, and I'm inclined to try an go back and make things right. However, then when I see that you posted [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Mikal/Plans this] on somebody's userspace talkpage, and I'm less inclined to care what you think. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 06:59, 23 March 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! (cabin fever sanity rant) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hereby pledge to litter and polute as much as possible for the next month as a result of Mother Nature's perpetual winter here in Minnesota. I know, it's Minnesota and I should expect snow. But 6 months of fucking winter and only prick-teases of spring? That's inhumane, even for the most seasoned of snowbirds!!!! [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:34, 10 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Keep the faith brother. Road Construction season is just around the corner, and we should have a good three-to-four weeks of warmth before the snow comes back. [[User:Carlaugust|Carlaugust]] ([[User talk:Carlaugust|talk]]) 18:05, 12 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks, fellow snowbird-in-arms. So long as the snow is gone by the week of the Great Minnesota Get Together, I think I'll be OK. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:19, 13 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== To physics or not to physics, that it the question. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hmmmmmmm.... Stupid fucking decisions. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-05-15T06:36:06Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Minnesota slated to legalize gay marriage */ The Pickett's Charge for the anti-gay movement&lt;/p&gt;
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[[Category:Needs Goat]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== MCWIKI COMMUNIQUE NO 94 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For many years now, I have been plotting the demise of Rationalwiki. Through my agents and my legion of socks, I have infiltrated the halls of power. I have waged a guerrila war on Rationalwiki, constantly striving for the cause of freedom and justice. My agents and I have saved various emails and skype conversations.Our movement has the power to reveal the rot, the power struggles, and the continuous assault on liberty that has been a de facto policy since the initiation of the moderati.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 24 hours I will launch operation Liberty. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will lead the interim administration and guide the transition to Rationalwiki's ancestral mobocracy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:Bloody hell Marcus, I'd almost given you up for dead. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 21:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Liberty can never die. It must never die. I will never allow it to die. [[Special:Contributions/86.45.236.199|86.45.236.199]] ([[User talk:86.45.236.199|talk]]) 21:23, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the fuck is this? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 21:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am he who opposes evil. He who opposes authoritarianism. Throughout history I have went by many names - Robin Hood, Edmund Burke, George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi. I am a revolutionary. Rationalwiki suppressed dissent and the end result has been an even more radicalised political movement. Pushed underground, we have laboured from within, infiltrating all the important institutions, and bending Rationalwiki to our will. The revolution will require a transition, when the old regime will be cleansed and purged and a new utopia will be ushered in, with me as ultimate arbiter. Freedom, liberty and justice will soon be our reality. Together, we will destroy the junta in control of this site and restore it to its rightful owners - the people. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
::::Apparently he's some guy on the internet who has a strange obsession with a website about colonics. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 21:47, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::He's just some random jackass. Just ignore him. Eventually after he's vandalized 90% of the site, he'll get bored and leave. And then come back a month or two later and do it again.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 21:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://youtu.be/ZDWdTcgMCSg This is a good song.] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 21:53, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hey Marcus, how is the book coming along? Do you think you can get it released by the time Ken releases his QE booklet for middle schoolers? [[User:Ace McWicked|Ace]][[User Talk:Ace McWicked|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;i9&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 21:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great works are not churned out overnight Ace.  Personally I cannot wait for Marcus's tome to hit the shelves, and when it does I'll post some photos. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 22:06, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My novel hit a rough patch. It took such a dark turn that I was unable to continue writing it, the implications were too disturbing. I plan to resume it soon. Its going to be called, 'Foster the Cruel and his many depredations, his folly and his madness, and his sycophantic, cruel minions'&lt;br /&gt;
:'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
::You know, it's not long until your ban expires MC. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 01:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::He isn't.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Catchy title there Marcus. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 12:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===COUNTDOWN===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a matter of hours, Operation Liberty will be unleashed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:-busy putting up cardboard cutouts of protestors and Revolutionaries from the French Era up- --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 14:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It just isn't the same without Richard Whiteley. [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::{{#ev:youtube|pFbumvpcvuw|320}}&lt;br /&gt;
::Or better still:&lt;br /&gt;
::{{#ev:youtube|zD0VSJlKXEY|320}}&lt;br /&gt;
::{{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 15:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Time's up, dipshit===&lt;br /&gt;
Twenty-four hours later.... [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 20:55, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You really thought the initial stages of operation liberty would be visible? My army works in the shadows. I demand Rationalwiki appoints me as final arbiter in a series of revolutionary tribunals so that I can cleanse rationalwiki and rid it of its authoritarian pestilence once and for all. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:59, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I support Marcus, as does every good thinking RationalWikian whose mind has not been poisoned by the menace of authoritarianism and tyranny.  Let us begin the work of restoring peace and order to the wiki.  --[[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 22:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But whats in this arrangement for  ME, the Average rationalwikian/ --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 22:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That depends upon whether you support the tyrannical situation of rule by the autocratic and oppressive moderators and the foundation, or you would accept the rightful and benevolent guidance of so great a founding figure as Marcus Cicero as he establishes a new reign of peace, order and prosperity over the wiki.  --[[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 23:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nah. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 23:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::All this city folk talk between sides in the capital is Nice, but what does it matter to me, the average rationalwiki farmer with his 40 acres in the countryside, which side leads? Whats in it for me, Mr. City man&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::We shall have to wait and see.  Just between you and me, I wonder if Marcus has quite gotten everything planned out yet.  I was expecting action in line with communique 94 by now.  I have received communique 95 (not yet for public consumption) and there is no mention of a delay.  [[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 23:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Direct from the haruspex log at shitbird central:&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::'''Message 1:''' Message 2 follows.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::'''Message 2:''' Disregard message 1. &lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Your most humble Servant interprets this Correspondence thusly: Different day, same shit. [[User:Sprocket J Cogswell|Sprocket J Cogswell]] ([[User talk:Sprocket J Cogswell|talk]]) 00:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::You're so smug to think this will come to naught, but you'll be laughing out the other side of your face when, ah... what is this all about again? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 02:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Operation Liberty is in motion, its just that its movement is too subtle for most of you to comprehend. There is no delay, everything is going just as I had planned it. &lt;br /&gt;
:Let me tell you of the future. Men will be free. No longer will they be servile to the whims of their cruel masters. People will be free to speak their mind, and hold power to account. Great works of art and science shall be accomplished. Families will be free to prosper, free from the overarching presence of the police state.&lt;br /&gt;
:As soon as I restored, I will lead the tribunals and return Rationalwiki to its former glory. The infamous show trial, through which the elite tried to silence me, has failed miserably. The following users will be brought in front of the revolutionary tribunals;&lt;br /&gt;
:Foster the Cruel&lt;br /&gt;
:Psygremlin the Prejudiced&lt;br /&gt;
:Blue the Fascist&lt;br /&gt;
:Ace the Wicked&lt;br /&gt;
:Dirk the Dick&lt;br /&gt;
:Brx the Dix&lt;br /&gt;
:Tyrannis the sycophant&lt;br /&gt;
:AD the Sophist&lt;br /&gt;
:Trent the Oblivious&lt;br /&gt;
:Hamilton the fake Conservative&lt;br /&gt;
:When we have removed these cancerous growths, Rationalwiki will be returned to health. Patience, comrades! [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You have odd taste in porn. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 21:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Knowing that you want me gone actually encourages me to stay. Congratulations, your stupidity is now self defeating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Oh, and, I'm a real conservative, you limbaughist piece of shit.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 06:31, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Left on the shelf! *sob* [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 09:19, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sexy parts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, that got your attention. Pervert.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyways, there are a few RW articles on sex/sex acts/naughty bits that have been nominated for deletion, or probably should. As a part of the [[RationalWiki:Gender Studies project | Gender Studies project]] I'm going to combine them into one larger article and sort through/expand some stuff that actually is useful/relevant from the bullshit. For now, I'm just going to combine and purge obvious crap. Tomorrow I'll actually sort through relevant stuff and expand where needed. In the mean time I request the following:&lt;br /&gt;
* Don't delete the fucking article (I'm looking at you, Nutty)&lt;br /&gt;
* Make any suggestions for relevant stuff to stick in that you can think of here or in the combined talk page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that's about it.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 23:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Howzabout you wait for some community input before deleting articles that have been here since 2008? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 00:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Howzabout you notice that those articles were already nominated for deletion and that each of them had three votes: all for deletion.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 00:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Merging doesn't guarantee survival. Depending on the reasons for deletion, this may mean that the sections will still have to be &amp;quot;trimmed&amp;quot; from the merged article.&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you are unhappy about the fate of a certain article, bring it up here so more people can notice the discussion.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Huh? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 21:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can't believe we have an article on [[Nigel Farage|the Malay word for Vagina]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We could have decent articles on some of these subjects. Clitoris for example could discuss female genital mutilation, hymen virginity, penis &amp;amp; vagina their role in religion etc rather than what Americ gets up to in its spare time.[[User:Albannach|Albannach]] ([[User talk:Albannach|talk]]) 07:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:RW also has an article on the English (borrowed) word for &amp;quot;[[misogyny|denigrating people by comparing them to female genitalia]]&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:Anyway, there is already an article about [[FGM]], and why you want to discuss hymen virginity in an article about the clitoris is a mystery to me. It's probably some kind of irony I'm too literal-minded to grok...--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 08:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::What is your proposed title for the combined article? I can't imagine that anyone would expect to type &amp;quot;sexy parts&amp;quot; into a wiki and a page come up. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well see, I had already left redirects to all of the articles we have for no reason that no one supports the existence of, like clitoris and penis had put them into a single larger article that I named &amp;quot;sex myths and woo&amp;quot; and had cut most of the irrelevant bullshit. Then some reactionary piece of shit decided I could fuck myself, and completely undid my work for no fucking reason. --[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Nice attitude, bub. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 16:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Because &amp;quot;Sex myths and woo&amp;quot; is something logical to type into a wiki.  Right on. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 20:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Such is watching whoever this guy is run a &amp;quot;Gender Studies Project&amp;quot; on a skeptical wiki. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 21:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There was an article titled &amp;quot;Atlas Juggs&amp;quot; and there is currently one titled &amp;quot;$cientology&amp;quot;, and you're bitching about &amp;quot;sex myths&amp;quot; and an attempt to improve articles on sex and gender? Sure sure children, I believe that. &amp;quot;skeptical wiki&amp;quot; my ass.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 22:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Those are redirects, not articles, &amp;amp; don't seem relevant to the subject at hand anyway.  If you're trying to run a wikiproject, please take a more collaborative approach to editing &amp;amp; don't lash out at people who disagree with you.  &amp;amp; Really, if this is a Gender Studies Project, pronouncements like &amp;quot;A lot of female sex myths are about the existence of certain naughty bits, like the clitoris and g-spot&amp;quot; aren't a great way to get started. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's so much misinfo about sex out there that sex education is very much on-mission. Condensing everything into a single article is a fail. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Strong agree. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 00:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well if either of you want to do some of the work, feel free. Until then, my time is limited.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 06:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== PZ Myers quits skepticism? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PZ Myers claims he is quitting skepticism. Then [[Freethought blogs|FTB]] goes down. (Cached version of the post here: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FybDtJC6TWgJ:freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/05/i-officially-divorce-myself-from-the-skeptic-movement/+&amp;amp;cd=1&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;ct=clnk&amp;amp;gl=us]) [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 16:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 16:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
::Actually, I hastily misread the post, nvrmind on this count--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:59, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The events are probably unrelated, as the &amp;quot;quitting skepticism&amp;quot; post and the other reactions to Jamy Ian Swiss' speech were posted some days ago.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 17:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::On the other hand, if he isn't, maybe skeptics will finally be rid of new atheists--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I never pay attention to this guy. What exactly does he mean by &amp;quot;the skeptic movement&amp;quot;?Is that the same thing as the angry atheists?  [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 19:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Depends who you ask...  I think here he means skeptics at large, in contrast to skeptics at large who hate religion--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I think he means Jamy Ian Swiss and his buddies at the JREF/TAM. The rift between vocal atheists and certain parts of the skeptics movement is not new.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 20:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::So he's pissed off because other people who brand themselves as &amp;quot;skeptics&amp;quot; don't hate religion enough? Or because they hate it too much? Or hate it in the correct amount, but the wrong way? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 20:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Rather because some skeptics have adapted an antagonistic against anti-theists.  I guess if we have to ask who started it, you could say Jamy Ian Swiss and others like him for criticizing the likes of PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins.  But then again, people who enjoy debunking pseudoscience may not necessarily appreciate having their movement hijacked by people who claim religion is the most evil thing ever (no, that's not an exaggeration).  I've only just become aware of this particular spat, though, and I've only looked at it through Myers' lenses.  I could be missing something.  I often miss things.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Both the more &amp;quot;proper&amp;quot; skeptical movement and the new-atheist (or anti-theist) movements have the same rhetorical problem: they come across as angry (largely white, largely male) people who appear to be focused on attacking people rather than exploring ideas, in part bacause that's what's memorable about what they do. (And ref: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIiznLE5Xno Jamy Ian Swiss's speech]) From my perspective, they both don't look great in this spat, at least. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I see [http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2013/05/pz-myers-quits-skeptic-movement-should.html Massimo] has commented on this issue; an interesting read. Although I didn't follow the TF/PZ spat closely it always seemed there was something a little suspect about PZs actions there. This specific instance seems like a repeat performance, it seems he might have flown off the handle a little early. My humble opinions is that the echo chamber is starting to take it's toll on his ideology and he is losing perspective on his own ignorance in certain areas. IF this is true it will be sad to see such a great guy, and great thinker flame out; but perhaps there is a cathartic tale here that we can all learn from? [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 05:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Sounds like PZ being PZ. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I only scanned through the speech, but it seems like the blog post had very little to do with the speech. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 16:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My impression is that it's a broader reaction to the anti-feminist and unquestioning Libertarian blocs of the movements, and being overly accommodating of theists is a fairly small part of the problem, albeit maybe the trigger. The problem is all the people within the movement who simply won't give up their preconceived notions, and theist skeptics aren't even remotely the largest part of the problem. Look at it this way -- it's nearly impossible to discuss feminism with the sort of people like the commenter on Massimo's page who implied that Rebecca Watson is part of the radical fringe of feminism. Right now, the skeptic/atheist movement is in the middle of an unmitigated meltdown, and the prejudiced assholes are winning with the idiot's veto. Since so many of us are the type who got wedgied in high school, the idea that PZ and company are being bullies resonates with a lot of people who should know better. Ego-stroking circle-jerkers (i.e. Slymepitters) win, science and education lose. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, it seems like Myers wants to take his ball and go home because someone somewhere said something he didn't like. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 22:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Only if you ignore the overall context. Believe me, there's plenty of things to be frustrated with in the current skeptical movement, and PZ has discussed all of them. It's pretty dishonest to take this as an isolated lashing out in that light. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Which is why the post is all about Elevatorgate and Randroids. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 23:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Look. I'm no stranger to getting bitched at because I lash out at something because I've had more than I can handle in a much larger context, and it always seems to come down to someone trying to take my objections in isolation and ignoring the overall context. It's a pretty standard emotional manipulation tactic, so you'll understand if I'm not exactly accomodating on this point. As you are no doubt aware, context changes the overall meaning of what's said, which is the entire point why we have an article on [[elision]] (yes, that's copypasta-with-attribution, but Stephanie Zwan made the point better than I ever could). In this case, the context not only includes theism but also a lot of other unexamined beliefs, and a large number of loud and militantly stupid people trying to keep skepticism out of those corners. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 23:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::So how is that different from &amp;quot;someone said something he didn't like&amp;quot;? --[[Special:Contributions/81.175.227.88|81.175.227.88]] ([[User talk:81.175.227.88|talk]]) 00:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Aren't those problems inherent in the atheist movement too EV? I haven't paid much attention to the brouhaha over 'Elevatorgate' (I was travelling when it happened) but my sense in reading the various summaries was that the criticism wasn't so much aimed at just Skeptic movement but at atheism in general too... I think you might be too charitable to PZ here. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 00:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The atheist movement is almost but not quite a subset of the skeptical movement, so the problem affects both. As for &amp;quot;someone said something he didn't like&amp;quot;, yes, you could assert that and not be ''wrong'' per se, but it's sort of like describing Jim Crow as &amp;quot;racial harassment&amp;quot; or calling ''Death of a Salesman'' a play about insurance fraud. The choice of words vastly understates the nature of the problem. It's why we take issue with dogwhistles and quote-mining, or people ignoring case law when discussing constitutional issues -- people pretending the plain meaning of a statement is all there is to it, when it comes from a big web of context, of what someone's said in the past, of their stated (and, as necessary, actual) points of view, and therefore potentially means something completely different. That in and of itself is something we, as proclaimed skeptics, need to keep an eye out for, especially if we're the ones doing it. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 01:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Truther bingo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know a good one? (I'm talking about the equivalent of [[Fun:Creationist Argument Bingo|this]], if you havn't heard of the concept.) I recently came into the possession of a home-grown 9/11 truther DVD which I'm considering taking a look at. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:12, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Shouldn't be hard to make one. You're on your own for implementation, but here's an informal description of the algorithm:&lt;br /&gt;
:*Make a list of truther terms.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Select 24 terms from that list and shuffle them into a random order.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Populate a 5x5 grid (with the center as the free space of course) with the terms. &lt;br /&gt;
:*Print.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Repeat until you have enough bingo cards for all snarkers. &lt;br /&gt;
:*Engage in fruitless debate with crazy person. &lt;br /&gt;
:That should do it. (Perl or Scheme would probably be the best implementation language, closely followed by PHP and, if you're brave, PostScript.) [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 01:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Doing this in Postscript is clearly hardmode. The language is perfectly capable of such things, but nobody took even a step out of their way to make it easy. More important, Computer Science 101, don't redo things somebody else already did. Five minutes studying the result of Googling for a phrase like &amp;quot;Bingo Card Generator&amp;quot; is likely to be more than adequate. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 08:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::All quite true. Postscript isn't really any worse than Forth and probably a good deal more readable, but absolutely no one ever bothers to learn it, so that's what makes it hardmode. And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't already a few truther bingo generators. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 17:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[http://osric.com/bingo-card-generator/?title=9%2F11+Truth+Bingo&amp;amp;words=thermite%2Fthermate%2C+controlled+demolition%2C+MIHOP%2C+LIHOP%2C+Building+7%2C+Omission+Report%2C+Bushhitler%2C+Marvin+Bush%2C+melting+point+of+steel%2C+fireproofing%2C+free+fall%2C+foreknowledge%2C+Pull+it%2521%2C+false+flag%2C+squibs%2C+no+plane+wreckage+at+the+Pentagon%2C+security+camera+footage%2C+bomb-sniffing+dogs%2C+cruise+missile%2C+Larry+Silverstein%2C+Loose+Change%2C+stock+puts%2C+Mossad%2C+Arabs+in+caves%2C+the+official+conspiracy+theory%2C+1200+architects%2C+first+time+in+history%2C+Chertoff+connection%2C+CIA-Osama+bin+Laden+link%2C+new+Pearl+Harbor%2C+Project+for+a+New+American+Century%2C+sound+of+explosions%2C+pyroclastic+flows%2C+NIST%2C+B-25+hit+the+Empire+State+Building%2C+voice+morphing+technology%2C+fighters+on+stand-down%2C+space+beams%2C+Operation+Northwood%2C+gold+reserves%2C+TV+fakery%2C+gate-keepers%2C+plane-hugger%2C+no-planer%2C+pods+on+planes%2C+government+shill%2C+Zionists%2C+Indian+Lake%2C+New+World+Order%2C+Zeitgeist%2C+sheeple%2C+cognitive+infiltration%2C+red+pill%2C+dustification%2C+magic+passport&amp;amp;freespace=true&amp;amp;freespaceValue=Inside+Job&amp;amp;freespaceRandom=false&amp;amp;width=5&amp;amp;height=5&amp;amp;number=10#results Done.] [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 22:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nice work, my man. You win a &amp;quot;Pull It&amp;quot; surprise. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 06:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Will Andy reevaluate his stance on Facebook? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/facebooks-mark-zuckerberg-turning-out-be-another-billionaire-conservative Mark Zuckerberg may be a Republican.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, yeah, it's Alternet, which is one of the loonier leftie sites. But will Andy declare him a RINO or embrace his new brethren? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Andy who? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 17:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I say RINO because Zuckerberg is an atheist and no atheist could be a real conservative.--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 18:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::RINO for sure, between Mark's atheism and FB having same-sex marriage icons. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:How exactly is Alternet loony? I find they cover rather a lot of ground, and most of it's pretty reasonable. You want loony, try places like HuffPo that actively promote woo. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::He's probably getting a very good deal from them, business wise. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''bomination''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 16:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Or [[globalresearch.ca]]. That is truly the &amp;quot;loony left.&amp;quot; [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 23:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The racket of academic publishing ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This coming June, I have the unique pleasure of seeing my academic work in print for the first time, by a respected journal with a big-name patrician guest editor who invited me personally to publish the article after hearing me present the paper at a conference. Only problem is, this journal recently got bought out by the publishing mega-conglomerate Taylor and Francis, which has developed a reputation for having one of the the most draconian copyright transfer agreements in the business. Since this was a chance I couldn't turn down, I swallowed my misgivings and signed the rights over, even though I'm working on publishing a book including some of the same material, and will likely have to pay for the permission to re-use it. I'm also a big fan of Open Access, as is the university I work for, so I checked out Taylor and Francis's option. For a single 20-page article, they wanted $2000 to make it Open Access. Ok, so give up that idea. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What about having a copy of the issue for my bookshelf? Unfortunately, Taylor and Francis does not give free copies away to authors, but they do &amp;quot;allow&amp;quot; you to buy reprints for the relatively reasonable rate of $20 per issue. So I went to their &amp;quot;Author Services&amp;quot; page, handled by Rightslink and the Copyright Clearance Center, ordered my copy, and entered my European address. Shipping for this single issue, provided by FedEx, was quoted to me as costing at minimum $278.90! No other shipping options were given, it was FedEx or nothing. This is the point when I was ready to grab a pitchfork. There is no way that shipping could possibly cost that much. This particular journal is far from a heavy tome, weighing a maximum of 2 kg soaking wet. Just to check I went to the FedEx website to calculate how much it would cost to ship a 2.5-kg package from the USA to my doorstep. Their answer? Around $90-$130! In my opinion, that's still way too expensive--my family sends me books through the USPS at around $60. Even accepting this, the price that Rightslink quoted me is still double or triple this price! Where, dare I wonder, would that extra $190 be going?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And what, you may ask, if I just want an offprint of my article rather than the full issue? Forget about it: the minimum order for offprints is 50 copies, at $365, not including shipping of course.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let's leave aside the fact that I signed away years' worth of work with no compensation: none of us are in it for the money anyway, and are happy to have the work out there and visible to people who can benefit from it. Let's leave aside the philosophical scruples I have about giving my work away for free to a huge corporation that makes serious profits by charging exorbitant rates for it to libraries all over the first world: that's a necessary evil of academic publishing, at least on the Anglo-American scene. To charge me anything for a copy of my work is already pushing it--in the performing arts this would be akin to making an opera singer pay for admission to their own performance. But to, in addition to all of this, contract the services of a shipping company that charges 6-8 times ordinary market rates, and up to 3 times what that same company typically charges, reeks of exploitation and corporate cronyism. A corporation with as much power as Taylor and Francis could easily negotiate lower than usual shipping prices, but here they've obviously done the opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The end result is, I have to pay effectively $300 to own a single copy of an article I provided to Taylor and Francis for no fee, an article representing several years of research. Does anyone else have a similar story?&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Junggai|Junggai]] ([[User talk:Junggai|talk]]) 22:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It is an issue, I wouldn't bother purchasing a hard copy; you have it on your hard-drive and there should be plenty more publications to come if you continue in a career in academia. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 00:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I sympathise. I believe the attitude of the institution I used to work for was that Green OA wasn't negotiable. Want their research? Then you have to allow OA. No OA? No publication. And to ensure nobody does a backdoor deal, the metrics used to assess people's career trajectory all run off the institution's Green OA e-prints service. So &amp;quot;I got published with no OA&amp;quot; became basically career suicide for anybody who needs those numbers to look good. They are cheating though because they do a bunch of the research in open access, they'd hired key people involved in arXiv, CogPrints and so on, so the stuff that looks like administrative overhead to other institutions just counts as more research to them. One of my friends built one of the world's top e-prints servers (GNU Eprints) as a sort of side project that got out of hand. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 01:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
I don't have any experience in academic publishing, but fiction publishing isn't much less stupid. To publish a short story in a magazine that will actually pay you (less common than you'd think) you need to submit it the way they want (which is different for each publication, and often weird and arbitrary). If you don't follow their guidelines: deleted without being read. If they accept your story, they (usually) send you a form letter you need to print, sign, and have notarized, and faxed back to them. The letter is you signing away all rights to the story. Period. Some will let you republish with their permission, but most won't. From submission to &amp;quot;sign away all legal rights to the story&amp;quot; is usually 1-3 months. Want to submit more than one story to the same publication? They're both deleted without being read and your name goes on a blacklist, so they'll never read your stuff again. Admit to sending it to another publication? Blacklist. And how do you know if your story has been rejected? They'll probably let you know by '''not''' sending you a form letter. Some of the bigger ones will send a different form letter telling you to fuck yourself. Oh, and payment is often incredibly small, less than the cost of the magazine, and the magazine isn't free because fuck you, that's why.&lt;br /&gt;
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Point is, publishing in general is bullshit.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 06:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:''&amp;quot;...you need to submit it the way they want (which is different for each publication, and often weird and arbitrary). If you don't follow their guidelines: deleted without being read.&amp;quot;''' Made me ROFLCOPTER; anyone that has submitted a manuscript to multiple journals will quietly grimace in solidarity.How many articles have gone unpublished for the want of an em-dash versus an en-dash?[[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 07:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm not sure if you're serious or making fun of me.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::In seriousness, those guidelines are often there to make sure people are reading them and submitting things intentionally rather than just spamming away whatever tripe they knocked together for NaNoWriMo expecting a cheque in the post. Because if you can't read and adhere to fairly simple style guidelines, the odds are that the rest of the content won't be up to much. Sure, the occasional good work might be binned for no reason, but it'll sift through 90% of the slush pile fairly quick. It's the same thing with job applications; if you have 90 things to sift through, there's no problem in ditching the 10-20 that couldn't spot follow the instruction &amp;quot;complete in block capitals with black ink&amp;quot;. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 16:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::@OP: &amp;quot;Since this was a chance I couldn't turn down...&amp;quot; - you definitely could turn it down. You had the choice between irreversibly surrendering your work for free to the most audacious extortionists on the planet (not even MS at the height of its monopololistic excesses comes close), or turning them down and publishing your work later.&lt;br /&gt;
::::Many open access journals waive the publishing fee if the author is unaffiliated and cannot cover it. If your work was financed from a grant, you should be able to cover publishing fees from the same grant. There is no longer any excuse to publish behind paywalls. Personally I would rather see my work unpublished and forgotten rather than legitimize these scum. --[[User:Tweenk|Tweenk]] ([[User talk:Tweenk|talk]]) 01:24, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Double mastectomy ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/opinion/my-medical-choice.html Uh...er...wow.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 05:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:BRCA mutations just fucking suck. Nothing else to say. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 06:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Minnesota slated to legalize gay marriage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/207231321.html This] is what I've been spending all my free time and some of my spare change for the last 2 years helping to work towards. To think, only a year ago, we almost constitutionally banned it. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 05:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Go you. It has been really nice to see, not just the inevitable demographic shift but a serious number of people saying on an individual basis &amp;quot;I changed my mind&amp;quot;. That doesn't happen because of the legislature, or because of a charismatic politician, it happens because they know all these perfectly reasonable seeming people around them who disagree with them and have a coherent argument for why they ''should'' change their minds. It doesn't hurt that in a lot of high profile cases those people were family, but it isn't always. Everybody on the ground who spoke up for what they believed in ought to know that this is happening ''now'' because of them. Would it have happened anyway eventually? Probably, but it didn't happen eventually, it's happening now. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 08:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You sir or ma'am Reckless Noise Symphony, are awesome. [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 10:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::How does it feel to think back on how much has changed in so short a time? Surreal? [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 12:05, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Surreal and then some. To an extent, I'd like to look at this as the Pickett's Charge of the anti-gay movement in Minnesota. Just last year, they were gearing up to permanently take away the rights of my fellow GLBT Minnesotans, and had some national heavy hitters on their side. But as the time came for them to attack, the pro-marriage forces had had enough time to assemble in such a fashion that polls when from 75% supporting the anti-gay amendment to the constitution to 50% supporting marriage equality. This wave of support was enough to completely energize the Democratic base and send the Republicans into a complete minority in the state government. But this also allowed the forces rallying for marriage equality to sweep candidates into office who supported marriage equality. Thus, the Republican movement to completely ban marriage equality not only didn't work, but it allowed for the total defeat of their movement. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 06:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully it will pass.   –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 20:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:what?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 20:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::So, as part of your need to try to troll everything I say, you ''don't'' want gay marriage to pass?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 01:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::There are many things i will tolerate; Being accused of being a Bigot is not one of them, so fuck off. And did you even -read- the article posted or just assume you know what it said? --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 02:00, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== That thing when you discover some amazing new musical artist only to find out they're already dead. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Happened to me twice this month: John Martyn, and Morphine. This is why all the &amp;quot;new&amp;quot; music in my collection is several years old, I guess. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 17:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Vector skin development ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Alright, I finally have an alternative Vector based skin completed.  I finished VectorBlue, which is available here: https://github.com/Sturmkrieg/mw-VectorBlue&lt;br /&gt;
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I also setup a project page on MediaWiki.org about the Vector skin development, if anyone wants to see the other Vector I'm working on, or possibly wants to join it.  I believe that GitHub lets you edit files online with a web interface, (like wiki pages) so you don't need to understand git to be able contribute; all you really need to be able to do is edit the CSS page and that's about it.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[mw:Vector_skin_development_project|Vector_skin_development_project]]&lt;br /&gt;
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–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/ragebox|Ragebox]]) 19:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Travelling to Boston ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'll be in Boston for an anime convention next week -does anyone have recommendations on good bars in Back Bay? --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 21:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What con are you going to?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 22:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Anime Boston. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 22:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Ahh, i just finished a con; going to another in... november. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Unfortunately the one I usually go to is closed, having been the site of the second bomb blast. However, Towne is pretty good if you're into high-class meat markets, and it's right in the Hynes building. Never been to McGreevy's, but it's owned by Ken Casey from the Dropkick Murphys and it's a huge baseball bar. Fire and Ice on Berkeley St. is a make-your-own-stir-fry place. They have a good beer selection, but Saturday night means guaranteed jam-packed with high schoolers playing grownup. Max Brenner has great cocoa, though I hear the food is mezza-mezza at best. Summer Shack is pretty much the best nicest clam shack imaginable (and it's also owned by one of the owners of Towne, Jasper White). Dillon's has a reputation for being kinda douchey, but some people dig that sort of thing. Stephanie's on Newbury is better known as a restaurant than a bar, but it's practically an institution (I hear good things about the mac and cheese). There are a lot of other places in the area that I know a lot less about, too. And after it's all over you have to head down to Quincy Market and pick up fries and/or waffles at Saus next to the Union Oyster House -- probably about a half-hour walk or ten minute cab ride. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 05:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Worth an article? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.sexcereal.com/index.html Or just a chuckle?] [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 03:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Certainly worth a chuckle. If you or anyone else can make it mission appropriate, then it could become an article. I hear they come with a.. &amp;quot;plastic toy&amp;quot;, if you know what I mean. --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 04:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
In other news, attempting to improve RW articles based on a similar theme: idiotic and pointless. Making an article on some random internet bullshit: worth considering. --[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 05:29, 15 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Butthurt level: Mega-giga-super-saiyan. Don't worry Hamilton, your time will come[[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]])&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga</id>
		<title>Alvin Plantinga</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T06:33:17Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* External links */ dead link murder&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[File:Alvin Plantinga.jpg|thumb|left|Alvin Plantinga]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{philosophy}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Alvin Plantinga''' is a professor of [[philosophy]] at the University of Notre Dame most known for his [[Christian]] [[apologetics]] and defenses of [[dualism]] and [[free will]]. Like much apologetics, his work in this area repackages many [[PRATT|age-old arguments]]. In Plantinga's case, he has reformulated many arguments from the Reformed ([[Calvinist]]) tradition such as ''[[sensus divinitatis]]''.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Jaco S. Gericke. [http://www.ve.org.za/index.php/VE/article/view/90 Fundamentalism on Stilts: A Response to Alvin Platinga's Reformed Epistemology.] ''Verbum et Ecclesia''; Vol 30, No 2 (2009).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He also has no understanding whatsoever of [[evolution]] and considers his lack of understanding constitutes making important points.&lt;br /&gt;
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==''Warrant''==&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga's significance in contemporary analytic philosophy stems from his work in epistemology contained in three books: ''Warrant: The Current Debate'', ''Warrant and Proper Function'' and ''Warranted Christian Belief''. In these three works, Plantinga builds up a theory that attempts to provide a framework for answering the question: for the beliefs we have, to what degree are we warranted?&lt;br /&gt;
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The first book, ''Warrant: The Current Debate'' explains the basic premise of this inquiry and why the terminology of warrant is preferred over other epistemological terms (broadly, because Plantinga believes that a lot of other terms used to signify this state of positive epistemic status presume the conclusions they seek: for instance, saying warranted beliefs are justified presumes that an account of beliefs being based on justification is the correct epistemological theory).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Warrant: The Current Debate'', p. 3-5&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Plantinga presents a variety of answers from the epistemological literature but finds fault with them because of their failure to deal with the challenge of &amp;quot;cognitive malfunction&amp;quot;. Needless to say, the counter-examples he presents are hypothetical and speculative rather than medically accurate. In Plantinga's view, a theory must be able to all possible logical counter-examples (even if the scenarios described in those counter-examples are ''physically'' impossible in the actual universe we live in, or indeed highly improbable).&lt;br /&gt;
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As the philosopher Tyler Wunder notes,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=10551 Tyler Wunder – Why Plantinga’s Reformed Epistemology Fails], Common Sense Atheism&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; at the end of ''Warrant: The Current Debate'', Plantinga shifts his standard of evidence before he presents his own theory:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;What I propose to explain and explore is our notion of warrant, a notion nearly all of us have and employ in our everyday pursuits. This notion is not best explained, I think, just by producing a set of severally necessary and jointly sufficient conditions. Such a procedure is at home in logic and mathematics; it works somewhat less well or less directly in, say, the metaphysics of modality, and it works still less well (or still less directly) in epistemology. What we really have are ''paradigms'': central, clear, and unequivocal cases of knowledge and warrant. But there is also a sort of penumbral zone of possible cases surrounding the central cases; these cases don't conform exactly to the conditions characterizing the central cases, but are instead related by way of analogical extension and similarity. And there is an even more shadowy belt of possible cases beyond that one, an area that is constituted by borderline cases, cases where it is not really clear whether what we have is knowledge (warrant) or not. More exactly, there are borderline cases between the central paradigmatic cases and those comprising the analogical zone, and borderline cases between the latter cases and cases that are not cases of warrant at all.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Warrant: The Current Debate'', p. 213&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Plantinga insulates his theory from the challenge of having to satisfy all possible logical counter-examples by setting a new standard... but doesn't apply that standard to the theories he's already rejected. Sneaky.&lt;br /&gt;
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''Warrant and Proper Function'' presents Plantinga's theory of warrant, which he describes as a theory of &amp;quot;proper function&amp;quot;. The theory is used in the book to jumpstart an argument against naturalism: namely, that if one is attracted to Plantinga's theory, it is—Plantinga says—very hard to square with a naturalistic understanding of evolution if you don't presume that there is a God.&lt;br /&gt;
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''Warranted Christian Belief'' applies Plantinga's account of warrant to religious—specifically Christian—beliefs. Plantinga comes to the somewhat startling conclusion that religious believers have a built-in module for believing in God, a ''sensus divinitatis''. Belief in God is thus justified as a &amp;quot;properly basic&amp;quot; belief in the same way that perceptual beliefs about the world around us are—because believers get a direct knowledge of God through the ''sensus divinitatis'', much as we get direct experience of the visual world through our eyes. Pesky atheist types don't get any such experience because of the &amp;quot;noetic effects of sin&amp;quot;. Which is very convenient.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Some arguments for and about God==&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga self defines as a Christian apologist, but many of his writings define his God far more [[theism|theistic]] or [[deism|deistic]] in nature.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://varropieces.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/atheism-pluralism-and-moral-arguments.html Atheism, Pluralism, and Moral Arguments]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
===God as basic belief and necessary being===&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga argues that [[God]] can be accepted without proof just as the existence of other minds can - what is called a &amp;quot;basic belief&amp;quot;, that is [[axiom]]atic.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Alvin Plantinga. [http://cla.calpoly.edu/~rgrazian/docs/courses/412/Plantinga_BeliefGodPBasic.pdf Is Belief in God Properly Basic?] Noûs, Vol. 15, No. 1, 1981 A. P. A. Western Division Meetings (Mar., 1981), pp. 41-51.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A [[skeptic]] of the analogy to the existence of other minds would argue that this isn't actually taken on [[faith]]. That another mind exists inside another human being is a strong inference based on outward observations, as humans pass the [[Turing test]] (or at least ''should'' pass). The fields of [[psychology]], [[cognitive Science|cognitive science]], and neuroscience make it possible to extend basic observations to looking at the structure of the [[brain]] and the isomorphism between that physical structure and the human mind - all evidence that makes it highly unlikely that other minds ''don't'' exist. The existence of God, specifically any Judeo-Christian one that Plantinga supports, isn't taken based on this sort of evidence.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;David W. Felder. [http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1384479?uid=3739576&amp;amp;uid=2&amp;amp;uid=4&amp;amp;uid=3739256&amp;amp;sid=21101529564777 Disanalogies in Plantinga's Argument regarding the Rationality of Theism.] ''Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion'' Vol. 10, No. 3 (Autumn, 1971), pp. 200-207&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;   &lt;br /&gt;
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In response to [[Richard Dawkins]]' &amp;quot;god hypothesis&amp;quot; assertion that God must be complex, he suggests that God, being spiritual in nature, is in fact simple - simple enough to be axiomatic.. Russell Blackford, among others, disputes that the [[Abrahamic religions|Abrahamic God]] is inherently simple; if the [[universe]] is designed, the designer must be incredibly complex, much as the human brains that design as watches and telescopes are complex.  We do not experience spirits as postulated by believers and theologians. According to Blackford, if we viewed the design concept unprejudiced by prior exposure to religious ideas, we would conclude that the existence of the Abrahamic God is highly improbable.  &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.asktheatheists.com/questions/136-is-a-creator-god-necessarily-complex Is a creator god necessarily complex?]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Wilson Pruitt suggested that  ''&amp;quot;''(...)''  Plantinga is not interested in proving the existence of the Christian God but warranting theistic belief. This is not a distinction without a difference.&amp;quot;''  &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://varropieces.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/atheism-pluralism-and-moral-arguments.html Atheism, Pluralism, and Moral Arguments]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
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Plantinga also supports the notion of God being a &amp;quot;necessary being&amp;quot; in addition to part of a basic belief.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Alvin Plantinga. (1980) ''Does God Have a Nature?'' Milwaukee, Wis.: Marquette University Press. [http://www.nd.edu/~afreddos/papers/dghn.htm Reviewed by Alfred J. Freddoso, University of Notre Dame]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In this assertion, &amp;quot;necessary&amp;quot; is defined as &amp;quot;existing in all possible worlds&amp;quot;. I.e., no matter what other things we change about hypothetical (or conceptual) alternative realities or futures - these aren't quite the same as the [[many worlds]] in quantum mechanics interpretations, but are constructs for the purposes of thought experiments - God must exist in each. The trouble with this is that we can conceive that in one possible world Alvin Plantinga was actually a Muslim, and formulated, through identical reasoning, that Allah is a necessary being that exists in all possible worlds. Which is the main problem with combining quite hardcore [[philosophy]] with [[apologetics]].&lt;br /&gt;
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===Free will and the problem of evil===&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga recycles free-will [[theodicy]] in an attempt to refute the [[problem of evil]]. This still fails to answer the question of evil brought about by non-human causes, such as natural disasters. He justifies this by suggesting that natural disasters could be caused by the free-will of [[spirits]], [[angel]]s, or [[devil]]s,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dean-Peter Baker (ed.). ''Alvin Plantinga''. Cambridge University Press. [http://ndpr.nd.edu/news/24193-alvin-plantinga/ Reviewed by Edward Wierenga, University of Rochester]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; which serves to demonstrate how he is really just grasping at straws to justify his beliefs.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Evolution and intelligent design==&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga has at various points voiced support for [[intelligent design]] but claims to doubt its scientific validity.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Alvin Plantinga. [http://chronicle.com/article/Evolution-Shibboleths-and/64990/ Evolution, Shibboleths, and Philosophers.] ''Chronicle of Higher Education'', Apr. 11, 2010.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He seems to be unaware of the fact that he's arguing in favor of a form of [[theistic evolution]] rather than intelligent design. He also argues that a belief in [[evolution]] and [[theism]] are not mutually exclusive. [[Stopped clock|He's right for once]]. However,  he seems to have backpedaled on this more recently, as he devoted space in his book ''Where the Conflict Really Lies'' to defending [[Michael Behe]]'s ideas about [[irreducible complexity]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Michael Ruse]]. [http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/alvin-plantinga-and-intelligent-design/42185 Alvin Plantinga and Intelligent Design.] ''The Chronicle of Higher Education'', Dec. 14, 2011&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
===Evolutionary argument against naturalism (EAAN)===&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga claims that [[evolution]], coupled with an [[atheist]]ic perspective, undermines [[naturalism]]. He has called this the &amp;quot;evolutionary argument against naturalism&amp;quot; (EAAN).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Alvin Plantinga. [http://www.calvin.edu/academic/philosophy/virtual_library/articles/plantinga_alvin/naturalism_defeated.pdf Naturalism Defeated.]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; If there is no God and evolution is correct, that makes the possibility of its own truth, as well as the truth of all other knowledge, either low or negligible. This is because we will be adapted to believe things not because of their truth value but because of their survival value. This appears to reduce to an [[argument from adverse consequences]], as the argument fails to account for the possibility of truth and survival value overlapping, the use of tools to correct for this, and the fact that a whole body of literature in psychology and philosophy has been devoted to dissecting this question.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Helen de Cruz and Johan de Smedt. [http://www.academia.edu/380061/Evolved_cognitive_biases_and_the_epistemic_status_of_scientific_beliefs Evolved Cognitive Biases and the Epistemic Status of Scientific Beliefs.] Philos Stud (2012) 157:411–429&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Scott Atran. (1990) [http://books.google.com/books?id=ITW9tzQMQr4C&amp;amp;printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&amp;amp;q&amp;amp;f=false ''Cognitive Foundations of Natural History: Towards an Anthropology of Science''.] Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moreover, it is not clear how the reference to evolution (in particular, to a scientific account of the origins of the population of modern humans) is significant in the argument, rather than it working at least as well with (to take two very distinct hypotheses) (1) reproduction or development (the origin of the individual) or (2) supernatural (divine or intelligent design) origins of knowledge.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we, as individual beings with our individual knowledge, are each a result of reproductive and developmental biology, how can we trust what we have learned? There is nothing about reproductive and developmental biology which guarantees that our knowledge is reliable. Just follow through the EAAN making the appropriate substitutions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If, on the other hand, our knowledge is dependent upon divine (or intelligent design) intervention, how can we trust that?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Dualism==&lt;br /&gt;
Plantinga makes a modal argument for mind-body dualism, which is pretty much a repackaged [[ontological argument]]. The argument relies on two claims. First, there is the principle of indiscernability of identicals (abbreviated II), which states that if object X and object Y are identical, then X and Y have all the same properties (this may appear to be self-evidently true, but his argument shows that there is a subtle problem with this principle). Second, there is the controversial claim that the conceivability of some scenario implies the possibility of that scenario (abbreviated C-P).  &lt;br /&gt;
#[[Science fiction]] authors can conceive of a great deal that is impossible. &lt;br /&gt;
#The [[monotheism|god]] or [[polytheism|gods and goddesses]] of many religions are conceivable. Does that mean all these religions past and present are conceivably true?&lt;br /&gt;
Given these claims, Plantiga's argument proceeds as follows: we can imagine (and hence conceive of) a scenario in which our minds exist independently of our bodies. By the C-P principle, this entails that it is possible for our minds to be independent of our bodies. In possible worlds semantics, we would say that there is at least one world in which my mind exists but my body does not. This means that minds and bodies have different modal properties. But the II principle tells us that if objects X and Y are identical then they share all the same properties. Since minds and bodies have different modal properties, it follows (by modus tollens) that minds are not identical to bodies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most significant responses to the modal argument fall into two main categories: first, the claim that it is possible for minds to exist independently of bodies has been questioned. This line of argumentation typically proceeds by calling into question the C-P principle or the claim that the fact that I can imagine something entails that I can conceive of it (in the relevant sense). Second, the claim that the II principle applies to modal properties has been attacked; it relies on the principle of necessity of identity, which is widely but not universally accepted. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#While Plantinga claims to have written the book entitled &amp;quot;Where the conflict really lies&amp;quot;, it is possible to conceive that he is not the author of the book. &lt;br /&gt;
#However, it is not possible that Plantinga is not Plantinga. &lt;br /&gt;
#Therefore, Plantinga and the author of the book do not share all properties, and thus Plantinga did not write the book.&lt;br /&gt;
As shown above Plantinga's argument can be [[Reductio ad absurdum|shown to be manifestly absurd]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://philosophy.nd.edu/people/alvin-plantinga// Plantinga's faculty page]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/plantinga.html A collection of Plantinga's arguments and responses in philosophical journals] archived at Internet Infidels&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOTn_wRwDE0 Modal argument]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/05/alvin_plantinga_gives_philosop.php Alvin Plantinga Gives Philosophers a Bad Name], [[PZ Myers]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-11-02/#feature Where the Substance Really Isn't], ''Skeptic'' magazine&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/books/alvin-plantingas-new-book-on-god-and-science.html &amp;quot;Philosopher Sticks Up for God,&amp;quot;] ''New York Times'', 13 December 2011&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://evolvingthoughts.net/2012/01/plantingas-eaan/ Plantinga's EAAN], Evolving Thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Christians]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Christian apologists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Philosophers]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Plantinga, Alvin}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre</id>
		<title>Alfred Webre</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T06:27:11Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: de-deadlink&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:ALFRED WEBRE 125.jpg|thumb|Webre.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Alfred Lambremont Webre''' (b. 1942) is an American UFO believer, [[9/11 truthers|9/11 truth]]er and conspiracy crank.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =He believes in UFOs. Do you?| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-17 | url =http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080571 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;bbc1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Lumpur | first =Kuala | title =Blair, Bush in 'war crimes trial'| publisher =BBC News | date =2007-02-07 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6336333.stm | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_alfred_webre.htm |title=Alfred Webre |publisher=Jerry Pippin |accessdate=2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;erh1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web | title =About the host| publisher =Exopolitics Radio | url =http://exopolitics.blogs.com/ |accessdate =2007-03-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He claims to have been a co-architect of the Space Preservation Treaty and the Space Preservation Act.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He is, with Stephen Bassett, the co-drafter of the Citizen Hearing, a proposed public forum to create a  fact finding process surrounding [[extraterrestrial]] phenomena and alleged government suppression of such facts from the public.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.citizenhearing.org/index.html Citizen Hearing official website]; [http://www.paradigmclock.com/X-Conference/X-Conference.htm Washington, DC Exopolitics conference] with Co-Hosts Stephen Bassett and CNN's former News Anchor, Cheryll Jones&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is also on the Board of Advisers at [[free energy]] nuts the New Energy Movement.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ei1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.newenergymovement.org|title=Advisory Board |accessdate=2011-01-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =China missile test is justified| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-16 | url=http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080422 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is the congressional coordinator for [[The Disclosure Project]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =David  | first =Leonard   | title =DO NOT PUBLISH: UFO Group Demands Congressional Hearing | publisher =Space.com | date =2001-05-09  | url =http://www.space.com/searchforlife/UFO_hearings_010509.html | accessdate =2007-03-27}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Wikipedia==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His fans went nuts about the proposed deletion&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alfred_Webre&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of his puff-piece on Wikipedia (which this RationalWiki article started as a ported copy of), including a threat of a tort over the deletion discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://www.eng.yale.edu/eng150/timeline/1963.html]. This is the Wikipedia Editor who erroneously determined there was no Industrial Administration major at Yale in 1964, and on the basis of that states he disbelieves the rest of Webre's career and will exclude it from Wikipedia, giving rise to a civil tort for negligence and malicious interference with business. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'Cos that'd convince any judge anywhere, no worries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr Webre's own comment serves as a one-line explanation of why this RationalWiki article exists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quotebox|My view is that Wikipedia's action continues to be part of the CIA time travel controlled US Presidency's retaliation against me for having exposed Soetoro/Obama's participation in a 1980-83 secret CIA jumproom project.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/04/wikipedia-considering-dropping-entry-of-etufo-author-and-founder-of-exopolitics-for-lack-of-notabili.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Career ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 1977, he claims to have joined SRI International in Menlo Park, [[California]], as a futurist for the Center for the Study of Social Policy,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;s1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | title =Media Advisory: Earth Day Peace In Space | publisher =Scoop (news website) | date =2005-04-15 | url =http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0504/S00251.htm | accessdate =2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; his responsibilities being the studies in alternative futures, innovation diffusion, and social policy applications for clients including the [[Jimmy Carter|Carter]] White House Extraterrestrial Communications Study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==9/11 Truth==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Webre has been a leading proponent of the events of September 11, 2001 as a [[false flag operation]] employing secret exotic technologies developed by DARPA and CIA including Tesla-based time travel that permitted [[Donald Rumsfeld]] to have images of the events at the World Trade Center on 9/11 30 years in advance in 1971. &amp;lt;ref name=exopol&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/02/secret-darpa-time-travel-program-may-hold-key-to-understanding-the-deep-politics-of-911-.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In Nov. 2006, Webre submitted a Memorandum to the U.S. Congress to the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee calling for the appointment of a special prosecutor under Article II of the US Constitution, the Treason Article. &amp;lt;ref name=treason_articles&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/03/articles-on-the-911-false-flag-operation-by-alfred-lambremont-webre.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Webre was a featured speaker at the 2007 New York City 9/11 Conference; the 2007 Madison, Wisconsin Scholars for 9/11 Truth Conference, and the 2007 Vancouver 9/11 conference. &amp;lt;ref name=video&amp;gt;http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_34.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until Nov. 2010, Webre was an international war crimes correspondent for Iran's PressTV. &amp;lt;ref name=presstv&amp;gt;http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In 2011, Webre was interviewed by [[Jesse Ventura]] in a TruTV Conspiracy Theory episode on the BP Gulf Oil Spill.&amp;lt;ref name=gulf&amp;gt;http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Institute for Cooperation in Space (2001-2011) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre and Dr. Carol Rosin founded the Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS) in 2001, as an outgrowth of the former ISCOS, Institute for Cooperation and Security in Space.&amp;lt;ref name=peaceinspace&amp;gt;http://www.peaceinspace.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The ICIS mission is to educate decision-makers and the grassroots about why it is important to ban space weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Through the help of former Congressman Dennis Kucinich, the Space Preservation Act was originally introduced into the 107th Congress on October 2, 2001 (HR 2977) and included provisions banning &amp;quot;extraterrestrial&amp;quot; weapons, as well as [[chemtrails]] and &amp;quot;exotic weapons systems&amp;quot; such as [[HAARP]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A revised Space Preservation Act (HR 3657) eliminating the prohibitions on space-based extraterrestrial, chemtrails, and exotic weapons systems was introduced to the 108th Congress on January 23, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre resigned from the Board of Directors of ICIS on January 1, 2011 to focus on a treaty to ban [[HAARP]], which he alleges to be a weapon.&amp;lt;ref name=ecologynews&amp;gt;http://www.ecologynews.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.exopolitics.com/&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/139422.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/138328.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2011%2F11%2F23%2Fcourts%2F9959222&amp;amp;sec=courts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Lawyers]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Ufology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Webre, Alfred}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre</id>
		<title>Alfred Webre</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T06:23:39Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:ALFRED WEBRE 125.jpg|thumb|Webre.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Alfred Lambremont Webre''' (b. 1942) is an American UFO believer, [[9/11 truthers|9/11 truth]]er and conspiracy crank.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =He believes in UFOs. Do you?| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-17 | url =http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080571 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;bbc1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Lumpur | first =Kuala | title =Blair, Bush in 'war crimes trial'| publisher =BBC News | date =2007-02-07 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6336333.stm | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_alfred_webre.htm |title=Alfred Webre |publisher=Jerry Pippin |accessdate=2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;erh1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web | title =About the host| publisher =Exopolitics Radio | url =http://exopolitics.blogs.com/ |accessdate =2007-03-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He claims to have been a co-architect of the Space Preservation Treaty and the Space Preservation Act.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He is, with Stephen Bassett, the co-drafter of the Citizen Hearing, a proposed public forum to create a  fact finding process surrounding [[extraterrestrial]] phenomena and alleged government suppression of such facts from the public.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.x-ppac.org/Citizen%20Hearing/index.htm Citizen Hearing official website]; [http://www.paradigmclock.com/X-Conference/X-Conference.htm Washington, DC Exopolitics conference] with Co-Hosts Stephen Bassett and CNN's former News Anchor, Cheryll Jones&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is also on the Board of Advisers at [[free energy]] nuts the New Energy Movement.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ei1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.newenergymovement.org|title=Advisory Board |accessdate=2011-01-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =China missile test is justified| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-16 | url=http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080422 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is the congressional coordinator for [[The Disclosure Project]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =David  | first =Leonard   | title =DO NOT PUBLISH: UFO Group Demands Congressional Hearing | publisher =Space.com | date =2001-05-09  | url =http://www.space.com/searchforlife/UFO_hearings_010509.html | accessdate =2007-03-27}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Wikipedia==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His fans went nuts about the proposed deletion&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alfred_Webre&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of his puff-piece on Wikipedia (which this RationalWiki article started as a ported copy of), including a threat of a tort over the deletion discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://www.eng.yale.edu/eng150/timeline/1963.html]. This is the Wikipedia Editor who erroneously determined there was no Industrial Administration major at Yale in 1964, and on the basis of that states he disbelieves the rest of Webre's career and will exclude it from Wikipedia, giving rise to a civil tort for negligence and malicious interference with business. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'Cos that'd convince any judge anywhere, no worries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr Webre's own comment serves as a one-line explanation of why this RationalWiki article exists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quotebox|My view is that Wikipedia's action continues to be part of the CIA time travel controlled US Presidency's retaliation against me for having exposed Soetoro/Obama's participation in a 1980-83 secret CIA jumproom project.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/04/wikipedia-considering-dropping-entry-of-etufo-author-and-founder-of-exopolitics-for-lack-of-notabili.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Career ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 1977, he claims to have joined SRI International in Menlo Park, [[California]], as a futurist for the Center for the Study of Social Policy,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;s1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | title =Media Advisory: Earth Day Peace In Space | publisher =Scoop (news website) | date =2005-04-15 | url =http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0504/S00251.htm | accessdate =2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; his responsibilities being the studies in alternative futures, innovation diffusion, and social policy applications for clients including the [[Jimmy Carter|Carter]] White House Extraterrestrial Communications Study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==9/11 Truth==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Webre has been a leading proponent of the events of September 11, 2001 as a [[false flag operation]] employing secret exotic technologies developed by DARPA and CIA including Tesla-based time travel that permitted [[Donald Rumsfeld]] to have images of the events at the World Trade Center on 9/11 30 years in advance in 1971. &amp;lt;ref name=exopol&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/02/secret-darpa-time-travel-program-may-hold-key-to-understanding-the-deep-politics-of-911-.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In Nov. 2006, Webre submitted a Memorandum to the U.S. Congress to the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee calling for the appointment of a special prosecutor under Article II of the US Constitution, the Treason Article. &amp;lt;ref name=treason_articles&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/03/articles-on-the-911-false-flag-operation-by-alfred-lambremont-webre.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Webre was a featured speaker at the 2007 New York City 9/11 Conference; the 2007 Madison, Wisconsin Scholars for 9/11 Truth Conference, and the 2007 Vancouver 9/11 conference. &amp;lt;ref name=video&amp;gt;http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_34.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until Nov. 2010, Webre was an international war crimes correspondent for Iran's PressTV. &amp;lt;ref name=presstv&amp;gt;http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In 2011, Webre was interviewed by [[Jesse Ventura]] in a TruTV Conspiracy Theory episode on the BP Gulf Oil Spill.&amp;lt;ref name=gulf&amp;gt;http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Institute for Cooperation in Space (2001-2011) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre and Dr. Carol Rosin founded the Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS) in 2001, as an outgrowth of the former ISCOS, Institute for Cooperation and Security in Space.&amp;lt;ref name=peaceinspace&amp;gt;http://www.peaceinspace.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The ICIS mission is to educate decision-makers and the grassroots about why it is important to ban space weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Through the help of former Congressman Dennis Kucinich, the Space Preservation Act was originally introduced into the 107th Congress on October 2, 2001 (HR 2977) and included provisions banning &amp;quot;extraterrestrial&amp;quot; weapons, as well as [[chemtrails]] and &amp;quot;exotic weapons systems&amp;quot; such as [[HAARP]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A revised Space Preservation Act (HR 3657) eliminating the prohibitions on space-based extraterrestrial, chemtrails, and exotic weapons systems was introduced to the 108th Congress on January 23, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre resigned from the Board of Directors of ICIS on January 1, 2011 to focus on a treaty to ban [[HAARP]], which he alleges to be a weapon.&amp;lt;ref name=ecologynews&amp;gt;http://www.ecologynews.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.exopolitics.com/&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/139422.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/138328.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2011%2F11%2F23%2Fcourts%2F9959222&amp;amp;sec=courts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Lawyers]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Ufology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Webre, Alfred}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre</id>
		<title>Alfred Webre</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T06:20:41Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* 9/11 Truth */ de-dead link&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:ALFRED WEBRE 125.jpg|thumb|Webre.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Alfred Lambremont Webre''' (b. 1942) is an American UFO believer, [[9/11 truthers|9/11 truth]]er and conspiracy crank.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =He believes in UFOs. Do you?| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-17 | url =http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080571 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;bbc1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Lumpur | first =Kuala | title =Blair, Bush in 'war crimes trial'| publisher =BBC News | date =2007-02-07 | url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6336333.stm | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_alfred_webre.htm |title=Alfred Webre |publisher=Jerry Pippin |accessdate=2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;erh1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web | title =About the host| publisher =Exopolitics Radio | url =http://www.exopoliticsradio.com/host.html |accessdate =2007-03-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He claims to have been a co-architect of the Space Preservation Treaty and the Space Preservation Act.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He is, with Stephen Bassett, the co-drafter of the Citizen Hearing, a proposed public forum to create a  fact finding process surrounding [[extraterrestrial]] phenomena and alleged government suppression of such facts from the public.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.x-ppac.org/Citizen%20Hearing/index.htm Citizen Hearing official website]; [http://www.paradigmclock.com/X-Conference/X-Conference.htm Washington, DC Exopolitics conference] with Co-Hosts Stephen Bassett and CNN's former News Anchor, Cheryll Jones&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is also on the Board of Advisers at [[free energy]] nuts the New Energy Movement.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;ei1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.newenergymovement.org|title=Advisory Board |accessdate=2011-01-28}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;dna2&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =Khadilkar | first =Dhananjay | title =China missile test is justified| publisher =Daily News &amp;amp; Analysis | date =2007-02-16 | url=http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1080422 | accessdate =2007-03-27 }}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He is the congressional coordinator for [[The Disclosure Project]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite news | last =David  | first =Leonard   | title =DO NOT PUBLISH: UFO Group Demands Congressional Hearing | publisher =Space.com | date =2001-05-09  | url =http://www.space.com/searchforlife/UFO_hearings_010509.html | accessdate =2007-03-27}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Wikipedia==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His fans went nuts about the proposed deletion&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alfred_Webre&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of his puff-piece on Wikipedia (which this RationalWiki article started as a ported copy of), including a threat of a tort over the deletion discussion:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://www.eng.yale.edu/eng150/timeline/1963.html]. This is the Wikipedia Editor who erroneously determined there was no Industrial Administration major at Yale in 1964, and on the basis of that states he disbelieves the rest of Webre's career and will exclude it from Wikipedia, giving rise to a civil tort for negligence and malicious interference with business. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'Cos that'd convince any judge anywhere, no worries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr Webre's own comment serves as a one-line explanation of why this RationalWiki article exists:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quotebox|My view is that Wikipedia's action continues to be part of the CIA time travel controlled US Presidency's retaliation against me for having exposed Soetoro/Obama's participation in a 1980-83 secret CIA jumproom project.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/04/wikipedia-considering-dropping-entry-of-etufo-author-and-founder-of-exopolitics-for-lack-of-notabili.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Career ==&lt;br /&gt;
In 1977, he claims to have joined SRI International in Menlo Park, [[California]], as a futurist for the Center for the Study of Social Policy,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;jp&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;s1&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite news | title =Media Advisory: Earth Day Peace In Space | publisher =Scoop (news website) | date =2005-04-15 | url =http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0504/S00251.htm | accessdate =2007-03-23}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; his responsibilities being the studies in alternative futures, innovation diffusion, and social policy applications for clients including the [[Jimmy Carter|Carter]] White House Extraterrestrial Communications Study.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==9/11 Truth==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Webre has been a leading proponent of the events of September 11, 2001 as a [[false flag operation]] employing secret exotic technologies developed by DARPA and CIA including Tesla-based time travel that permitted [[Donald Rumsfeld]] to have images of the events at the World Trade Center on 9/11 30 years in advance in 1971. &amp;lt;ref name=exopol&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/02/secret-darpa-time-travel-program-may-hold-key-to-understanding-the-deep-politics-of-911-.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In Nov. 2006, Webre submitted a Memorandum to the U.S. Congress to the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee calling for the appointment of a special prosecutor under Article II of the US Constitution, the Treason Article. &amp;lt;ref name=treason_articles&amp;gt;http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/03/articles-on-the-911-false-flag-operation-by-alfred-lambremont-webre.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Webre was a featured speaker at the 2007 New York City 9/11 Conference; the 2007 Madison, Wisconsin Scholars for 9/11 Truth Conference, and the 2007 Vancouver 9/11 conference. &amp;lt;ref name=video&amp;gt;http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_911_34.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Until Nov. 2010, Webre was an international war crimes correspondent for Iran's PressTV. &amp;lt;ref name=presstv&amp;gt;http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In 2011, Webre was interviewed by [[Jesse Ventura]] in a TruTV Conspiracy Theory episode on the BP Gulf Oil Spill.&amp;lt;ref name=gulf&amp;gt;http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Institute for Cooperation in Space (2001-2011) ==&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre and Dr. Carol Rosin founded the Institute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS) in 2001, as an outgrowth of the former ISCOS, Institute for Cooperation and Security in Space.&amp;lt;ref name=peaceinspace&amp;gt;http://www.peaceinspace.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The ICIS mission is to educate decision-makers and the grassroots about why it is important to ban space weapons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Through the help of former Congressman Dennis Kucinich, the Space Preservation Act was originally introduced into the 107th Congress on October 2, 2001 (HR 2977) and included provisions banning &amp;quot;extraterrestrial&amp;quot; weapons, as well as [[chemtrails]] and &amp;quot;exotic weapons systems&amp;quot; such as [[HAARP]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A revised Space Preservation Act (HR 3657) eliminating the prohibitions on space-based extraterrestrial, chemtrails, and exotic weapons systems was introduced to the 108th Congress on January 23, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alfred Webre resigned from the Board of Directors of ICIS on January 1, 2011 to focus on a treaty to ban [[HAARP]], which he alleges to be a weapon.&amp;lt;ref name=ecologynews&amp;gt;http://www.ecologynews.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.exopolitics.com/&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/139422.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145339.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/138328.html&lt;br /&gt;
*http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2011%2F11%2F23%2Fcourts%2F9959222&amp;amp;sec=courts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Footnotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Lawyers]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Ufology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience promoters]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Webre, Alfred}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley</id>
		<title>Aleister Crowley</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T06:16:48Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Golden Dawn */ dead link fixing&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{cquote|Sit still. Stop thinking. Shut up. Get out!|||Aleister Crowley, on the subject of [[yoga]]}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Aleister Crowley abode of Chaos.jpg|right|thumb|250px|With Crowley's mug on your wall, who needs a burglar alarm?]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Aleister Crowley''' (1875-1947), also '''Frater Perdurabo''', '''The Great Beast''' of '''[[666]]''', and '''The Wickedest Man in the World''', was a British [[occult]]ist, [[magic]]ian, [[mysticism|mystic]], and the founder of the religion Thelema.  He was also a fan of esoteric societies, achieving low high rank in both the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and in Ordo Templi Orientis, as well as founding his own Thelemic society, the ambiguously titled A∴A∴.  Furthermore, he was a chess player, mountaineer, [[poet]], painter, [[yoga|yogi]], [[drug]] enthusiast, and free-lover&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;USGL&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://oto-usa.org/crowley.html Aleister Crowley] - US Grand Lodge, Order Templie Orientis&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;amp;mdash; in other words, a hippie over half a century too early.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Golden Dawn==&lt;br /&gt;
In his college years, Crowley became interested in [[alchemy]], a curiosity that eventually put him in contact with George C. Jones, who introduced him to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;GDP&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://www.goldendawnpedia.com/HistoryPages/Bios/AleisterCrowley.htm Alesiter Crowley] - The Golden Dawn Biographies&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Referred to simply as the Golden Dawn, the society was founded in 1888 and considered itself an &amp;quot;outer order&amp;quot; of the [[Rosicrucianism|Rosicrucians]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.golden-dawn.com/eu/index.aspx Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn] International Headquarters&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;William Butler Yeats was also a member, though he and Crowley never got along.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  After being initiated in 1898 and taking the name Frater Perdurabo (Lat. for &amp;quot;I will endure to the end&amp;quot;), Crowley quickly found himself part of a power struggle between leader S. L. MacGregor Mathers and a group of London adepts.  When the London adepts refused to advance him to the Second Order, Crowley turned directly to Mathers who acquiesced.  Crowley in turn attempted to &amp;quot;retake&amp;quot; the London temple on behalf of Mathers by storming in while dressed in Scottish regalia and wearing a mask on his face,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;GDP&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; though he was ultimately unsuccessful.  Crowley left the Golden Dawn soon afterwards.  While some modern-day Golden Dawn groups attempt to downplay Crowley's role in the society,&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;GDP&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; others accuse him of betraying the order by publishing its secrets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.poemhunter.com/aleister-crowley/biography/ Biography of Aleister Crowley]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Furthermore, Crowley would continue to be strongly influenced by the Golden Dawn throughout his life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Thelema==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Liber_AL_Front.jpg|thumb|right|LIBER-AL!]]&lt;br /&gt;
In 1904, Crowley traveled to Egypt on a honeymoon with his wife, Rose Kelly.  While there, Rose supposedly entered into some kind of connection with the Egyption god Horus.  To test this, Crowley supposedly subjected her to tests involving arcane and [[Qabalah|Qabalistic]] knowledge of Horus which she apparently passed with flying colors.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Eq6&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox-of-the-gods/eqotg6.html The Great Revelation] - Crowley, Aleister.  The Equinox of the Gods, Ch. 6.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  After performing a ritual, a shadow known as Aiwass&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;bookofthelaw&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0220.html The Book of the Law]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; supposedly&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The only source for any of the events surrounding the origins of Thelema come from Crowley's diary (written by Crowley); The Book of the Law (written by Crowley); and The Equinox of the Gods (written by Crowley).  Thus the veracity of these events is doubtful, at best, and is exacerbated by Crowley's penchant for exaggeration and elaborate falsehoods.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; dictated to Crowley for an hour.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;Eq6&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;  Crowley titled the result ''The Book of the Law'', later given the name Liber AL vel Legis.&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The AL is probably an acronym; Crowley loved cryptic, unexplained abbreviations (as evidenced by his journal), and the original title was &amp;quot;Liber L vel Legis.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The book was subtitled &amp;quot;sub figura CCXX as delivered by XCIII = 418 to DCLXVI.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;DCLXVI is 666, the supposed number of Satan, but here represents Crowley himself.  While growing up, Crowley felt a connection to Satan as an outsider, and dubbed himself The Great Beast.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  This book would become the central tenet of Crowley's new religion, Thelema (Koine Greek for &amp;quot;will&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The central belief behind both The Book of the Law and Thelema can be summed up in three sentences from the book:&lt;br /&gt;
*“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”&lt;br /&gt;
*“Love is the law, love under will.”&lt;br /&gt;
*“There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.”&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;bookofthelaw&amp;quot; /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===A∴A∴===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1907, Crowley, along with his friend Jones, founded the A∴A∴&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Sometimes written A.'.A.'. to avoid finding the symbol on a computer&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; as a society to promote Thelema.  Various meanings to A∴A∴ have been offered, including ''Arcanum Arcanorum''&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;AA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://www.thelema.org/aa/ The Temple of Thelema: AA]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (Lat. for secret of secrets), and ''Astrum Aregentum''&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;llewellyn&amp;quot; &amp;gt;[http://www.llewellyn.com/encyclopedia/term/The%2BAstrum%2BArgentum Term: The Astrum Aregentum - Llewellyn Encyclopedia]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (Lat. for silver star).&amp;lt;ref group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;While many of the possible names are plausible, there is also the chance that A∴A∴ has no meaning, and Crowley just wanted to mess with people (a pastime he did have a fondness for).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The grades available to initiates (0=0, 1=10, 2=9, 3=8, 4=7)&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;orderaa&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://www.ordoaa.org/ The Order A∴A∴]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; match those in the Golden Dawn.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.esotericgoldendawn.com/tradition_whatgd.htm What is the Golden Dawn?] - Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The A∴A∴ is divided into three groups: The Order of the Golden Dawn, The Order of the Rosy Cross, and the Order of the Silver Star.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;secret&amp;quot; group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The connections to other secret societies has obviously led to no end of conspiracies connecting the group to the [[Illuminati]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Crowley was the leader of A∴A∴ until his death.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===O.T.O.===&lt;br /&gt;
In 1910, Crowley joined the Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), which was at that time built around [[freemasonry]], and like he did with the Golden Dawn, quickly rose up through the grades.  Relations between him and Theodore Reuss - the then-head of O.T.O. and the man who had brought Crowley in - deteriorated by the 1920's, and Crowley soon usurped Reuss as head of the O.T.O.  In his new position of power, Crowley turned the organization away from masonry and towards Thelema, making A∴A∴ a sister society.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://oto-usa.org/history.html History of Ordo Templi Orientis] - US Grand Lodge, OTO&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;secret&amp;quot; group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Reactions==&lt;br /&gt;
Crowley was very open about certain parts of his life, including his [[drug abuse|drug use]], his [[bisexuality]], his use of both drugs and [[sex]] in rituals, and his fascination with black [[magic]], the [[occult]], and [[Satan]].  As such, Crowley offended the sensibilities of his time, and the press hated him.  Crowley relished the negative attention, often saying or doing things for the sole purpose of shock.  For instance, Crowley would he claim that he [[sacrifice]]d 150 children a year, as an obtuse way of counting the number of ejaculations that did not result in pregnancy.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;about&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://altreligion.about.com/od/importanthistoricalpeople/p/crowley.htm Aleister Crowley, Thelemic Prophet] - About.com AltReligion&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The press dubbed him &amp;quot;The Wickedest Man in the World&amp;quot; - a name Crowley thoroughly enjoyed - and reported on supposed orgies and rituals, often entirely fictional, that happened at his Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-viewpage-pageid-18.phtml The Wickedest Man in the World] - John Bull, March 24, 1923&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Legacy==&lt;br /&gt;
Crowley was perhaps the world's preeminent occultist by the time of his death in 1947.  Various fringe groups of A∴A∴ and O.T.O. live on, as do many Thelemic Temples.  [[Jack Parsons]] continued Crowley's legacy in the [[US]], which in turn influenced [[L. Ron Hubbard]].  [[Wicca]]ns and [[Neopagan]]s continue to be influenced by works of Crowley, such as his [[Gnostic]] Mass written for O.T.O.  The A∴A∴ and Crowley are heavily referenced in Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea's seminal ''Illuminatus! Trilogy''.  In the music world, Crowley appears on the cover of the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album, and was a person of great interest to Jimmy Page and Ozzy Osbourne. Some religious fundies, however, including David J Stewart of the website [[Jesus Is Savior]] and [[Mark Dice]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HkAXY8ej3w&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; have been very critical of Crowley and regarded him as a &amp;quot;Satanic scumbag&amp;quot; and accusing him of having connections to the [[Illuminati]] because of his occult beliefs. The latter of the two, Mark Dice, continuously mentions a quote by Crowley in his Youtube videos, which allegedly advocated child sacrifice, when in fact it advocated no such thing.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://oto-usa.org/faq.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://hermetic.com/crowley/ The Libri of Aleister Crowley] - A collection of Crowley's works&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0220.html The Book of the Law] - Complete text&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Notes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|group=&amp;quot;note&amp;quot;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Crowley, Aleister}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Prophets]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pagan or occult leaders]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-05-14T05:45:30Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Minnesota slated to legalize gay marriage */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Template:Talkpage/PibotHidden&lt;br /&gt;
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}}{{Bartop}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__[[Category:RationalWiki|{{PAGENAME}}]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Needs Goat]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-05-10 at 1.49.27 PM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 5/10/13: '''3364'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Gravity ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufsrgE0BYf0 Holy shit.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 07:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:George Clooney in space? *groan* I remember ''Solaris''...--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 08:23, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;Oh the visuals in that movie look so beauti-HOLY SHIT!&amp;quot; [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 10:56, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Er, wouldn't they have had to use reflective face shields? {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''''It's only a movie'''''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 13:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::And wouldn't there be no sound in space? The list is endless... [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Sound in space has been a big sci-fi problem for a long time. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 14:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Babylon 5 originally tried no sound in space and as the editors said, it just didn't work.  You could do everything else, including taking into account inertia, and viewers had no problem accepting it, but switch off the sound and everything stopped feeling real.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 14:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Sound in space? That's nothing. If you pay attention you'd know that we, as an audience, wouldn't be able to see those visuals because we lack a space suit, and wouldn't be able to make those movements in a real free-fall environment. AND the shuttle retired ages ago. AND George Clooney clearly isn't a real astronaut. Jeese, it's errors and problems and inconsistencies from end to fucking end! [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 15:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Sound in space in movies... I don't get why people still harp on this ''still'' after all these decades.  Yes, we know there is no sound in space, yes Hollywood knows too.  We also know for fiction and entertainment, taking the sound effects out for the realism just wouldn't work (well, except 2001, but that is because it worked with the movie's theme and artistic direction); so just for this one common trope, just have that one suspension of disbelief, move on, and enjoy the show.--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 15:47, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::And ''Firefly'' quite famously. But when you actually watch it, that had all of 5 seconds of space-based shots across the series. The better example would be ''BSG'' that had sound, but did mute it a little bit for purely external shots. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''pathetic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 16:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::I remember ''Apollo 13'' violated it as well. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 16:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::::Pardon me while I geek out a bit.  Let's say I want to design an advanced starfighter.  There is a lot of sensory information that I want to relay to the pilot, such as the locations of other ships, weapons fire, explosions, and other things.  If I had the technology, one of my inclinations would be to express it through sounds.  Have the ship's computer simulate the sounds of nearby ship engines, lasers going pew pew, the boom of explosions and so forth in a stereophonic way to relay this information to the pilot without cluttering his visual space.  Maybe the space battles of the future will actually be &amp;quot;noisy&amp;quot; in this abstract sort of way?  [[User:Apokalyps2547|Apokalyps2547]] ([[User talk:Apokalyps2547|talk]]) 17:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::::Pfff! Unimaginative my dear&amp;amp;hellip;starship designer.  Everybody knows that true starfighter design should include the words &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;amp;hellip;and after we've built the Dyson sphere&amp;amp;hellip;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/I&amp;gt;--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:07, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::::::IIRC, some ''Star Wars'' fans actually used that idea as a retcon for why you can hear sound in the movies. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/10049217/International-Space-Station-ammonia-leak-very-serious.html And this was timed perfectly.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 15:41, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pride Month Celebrations: Article Ideas ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, not going to state my queer-ness exactly here, far too involved in conversation, but I want to float the idea of doing a series on the development of various gay rights movements, for these reasons:&lt;br /&gt;
# Gay rights, in whatever forms where ever on the Globe, always has been anti-woo, in that homophobia and heterosexism are just that, woo.&lt;br /&gt;
# The social development within just 120 years at most, dating back to the Oscar Wilde trials, of a general popular sympathy for a discriminated minority is unprecedented in the post-French Revolution epoch, it took much longer to emancipate racial and gender minorities from their repression, and in many ways continues.&lt;br /&gt;
# Many queers, myself included, are quite concerned by the commercialization and commodification of Pride by groups like HRC or other big-brand lobby groups behaving like Susan Komen Foundation.&lt;br /&gt;
# The history of gay rights movements is quite instructive, including the structure and philosophies of The Daughters of Billitis and The Mattachine Society.  Furthermore, Harry Hay's own life is a major hate target by the GOP.&lt;br /&gt;
# Without bursting anyone's bubble, THE MAYOR OF CASTRO STREET by Randy Schilts makes pretty clear that the Sean Penn MILK movie was over-romanticized and full of Harvey Milk Mythological woo.  I respect him but the facts about Harvey are much more complex than either the documentary or biopic portray, and maybe the idea of Killing Santa strikes others as important.&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not in any way open to anyone suggesting only LGBTQQ people can write these articles, frankly, if you can process the historical texts and the documentary evidence, you are on a better foot than many of the men I meet in gay bars.  The history timelines are well established and outlined by other websites, perhaps this could generate good dialogues?  Maybe a kid wouldn't get in as much trouble for looking online for info about herself on RationalWiki than on a much more noticeably gay site when parents check web history?[[User:Andrewstewart1|Andrewstewart1]] ([[User talk:Andrewstewart1|talk]]) 20:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, there is the [[Rationalwiki:Gender Studies project | Gender studies project]], which that would work well with.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 20:41, 10 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think gay rights is completely free of &amp;quot;woo&amp;quot; or rubbish. I've heard stuff about souls/reincarnation (female soul in male body etc) and there are also strange aspects to the Uranian movement and lesbian separatism.-[[User:Albannach|Albannach]] ([[User talk:Albannach|talk]]) 01:13, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
all good points.[[User:Andrewstewart1|Andrewstewart1]] ([[User talk:Andrewstewart1|talk]]) 01:43, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Gay_Pride] My personal delight in cock aside, I'm not entirely convinced of the missionality of duplicating Wikipedia. But then, [http://rationalblogs.org/rationalwiki/2013/03/28/gay-bowel-syndrome-the-medicalisation-of-bigotry/ the blog post on Gay Bowel Syndrome], based on the [[Gay bowel syndrome|wiki article]], has been a perennial favourite, so there's considerable clearly missiony material - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 17:07, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Melanie Phillips ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Currently on CSPAN2.  Managed a whole 2 minutes listen to her redefine multiculturalism to the point where &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;she&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt; wasn't racist, oh no, it was all the multiculturalists who are racist and killed Victoria Climbié.  Not a massively underfunded and overstretched Social Services department fucking up.  No, racism.  Makes me wonder why she hasn't moved to the US, although I suppose bringing the singularities of Coulter and Phillips being too close together would be too much and tear a hole in the fabric of the universe.--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 13:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:''makes me wonder why she hasn't moved to the US'' - [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/online/phillips-launches-brand-melanie-as-she-tries-to-become-the-darling-of-the-american-right-8604621.html well it's a start.] [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 13:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm sure the tax situation is far more beneficial this way. [[User:Ochotonaprinceps|Ochotona princeps]][[User_talk:Ochotonaprinceps|&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique&amp;quot;&amp;gt;not a pokémon&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 13:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::At her age I'm sure the health insurance costs in the US would be prohibitive, much better to stay within the realm of the NHS. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 16:47, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Given that she's a harpy, there's a good chance that Zeus has her back&amp;amp;hellip;--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 19:09, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::“My model is much more the kind of people who read The Wall Street Journal, the kind of people who are thoughtful – the centre ground rather than the red-in-tooth-and-claw political right.” - Has Mad Mel even ''read'' her own stuff? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 13:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== MCWIKI COMMUNIQUE NO 94 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For many years now, I have been plotting the demise of Rationalwiki. Through my agents and my legion of socks, I have infiltrated the halls of power. I have waged a guerrila war on Rationalwiki, constantly striving for the cause of freedom and justice. My agents and I have saved various emails and skype conversations.Our movement has the power to reveal the rot, the power struggles, and the continuous assault on liberty that has been a de facto policy since the initiation of the moderati.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 24 hours I will launch operation Liberty. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will lead the interim administration and guide the transition to Rationalwiki's ancestral mobocracy. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:Bloody hell Marcus, I'd almost given you up for dead. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 21:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Liberty can never die. It must never die. I will never allow it to die. [[Special:Contributions/86.45.236.199|86.45.236.199]] ([[User talk:86.45.236.199|talk]]) 21:23, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Who the fuck is this? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 21:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am he who opposes evil. He who opposes authoritarianism. Throughout history I have went by many names - Robin Hood, Edmund Burke, George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi. I am a revolutionary. Rationalwiki suppressed dissent and the end result has been an even more radicalised political movement. Pushed underground, we have laboured from within, infiltrating all the important institutions, and bending Rationalwiki to our will. The revolution will require a transition, when the old regime will be cleansed and purged and a new utopia will be ushered in, with me as ultimate arbiter. Freedom, liberty and justice will soon be our reality. Together, we will destroy the junta in control of this site and restore it to its rightful owners - the people. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
::::Apparently he's some guy on the internet who has a strange obsession with a website about colonics. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 21:47, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::He's just some random jackass. Just ignore him. Eventually after he's vandalized 90% of the site, he'll get bored and leave. And then come back a month or two later and do it again.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 21:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://youtu.be/ZDWdTcgMCSg This is a good song.] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 21:53, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Hey Marcus, how is the book coming along? Do you think you can get it released by the time Ken releases his QE booklet for middle schoolers? [[User:Ace McWicked|Ace]][[User Talk:Ace McWicked|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;i9&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 21:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Great works are not churned out overnight Ace.  Personally I cannot wait for Marcus's tome to hit the shelves, and when it does I'll post some photos. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 22:06, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My novel hit a rough patch. It took such a dark turn that I was unable to continue writing it, the implications were too disturbing. I plan to resume it soon. Its going to be called, 'Foster the Cruel and his many depredations, his folly and his madness, and his sycophantic, cruel minions'&lt;br /&gt;
:'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
::You know, it's not long until your ban expires MC. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 01:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::He isn't.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 01:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Catchy title there Marcus. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 12:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===COUNTDOWN===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a matter of hours, Operation Liberty will be unleashed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''MARCUSCICERO'''&lt;br /&gt;
:-busy putting up cardboard cutouts of protestors and Revolutionaries from the French Era up- --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 14:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It just isn't the same without Richard Whiteley. [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::{{#ev:youtube|pFbumvpcvuw|320}}&lt;br /&gt;
::Or better still:&lt;br /&gt;
::{{#ev:youtube|zD0VSJlKXEY|320}}&lt;br /&gt;
::{{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 15:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Time's up, dipshit===&lt;br /&gt;
Twenty-four hours later.... [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 20:55, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You really thought the initial stages of operation liberty would be visible? My army works in the shadows. I demand Rationalwiki appoints me as final arbiter in a series of revolutionary tribunals so that I can cleanse rationalwiki and rid it of its authoritarian pestilence once and for all. [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:59, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I support Marcus, as does every good thinking RationalWikian whose mind has not been poisoned by the menace of authoritarianism and tyranny.  Let us begin the work of restoring peace and order to the wiki.  --[[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 22:47, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But whats in this arrangement for  ME, the Average rationalwikian/ --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 22:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That depends upon whether you support the tyrannical situation of rule by the autocratic and oppressive moderators and the foundation, or you would accept the rightful and benevolent guidance of so great a founding figure as Marcus Cicero as he establishes a new reign of peace, order and prosperity over the wiki.  --[[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 23:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nah. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 23:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::All this city folk talk between sides in the capital is Nice, but what does it matter to me, the average rationalwiki farmer with his 40 acres in the countryside, which side leads? Whats in it for me, Mr. City man&amp;gt;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 23:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::We shall have to wait and see.  Just between you and me, I wonder if Marcus has quite gotten everything planned out yet.  I was expecting action in line with communique 94 by now.  I have received communique 95 (not yet for public consumption) and there is no mention of a delay.  [[User:Titus Atticus|Titus Atticus]] ([[User talk:Titus Atticus|talk]]) 23:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Direct from the haruspex log at shitbird central:&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::'''Message 1:''' Message 2 follows.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::'''Message 2:''' Disregard message 1. &lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Your most humble Servant interprets this Correspondence thusly: Different day, same shit. [[User:Sprocket J Cogswell|Sprocket J Cogswell]] ([[User talk:Sprocket J Cogswell|talk]]) 00:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::You're so smug to think this will come to naught, but you'll be laughing out the other side of your face when, ah... what is this all about again? [[User:Doctor Dark|Doctor Dark]] ([[User talk:Doctor Dark|talk]]) 02:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Operation Liberty is in motion, its just that its movement is too subtle for most of you to comprehend. There is no delay, everything is going just as I had planned it. &lt;br /&gt;
:Let me tell you of the future. Men will be free. No longer will they be servile to the whims of their cruel masters. People will be free to speak their mind, and hold power to account. Great works of art and science shall be accomplished. Families will be free to prosper, free from the overarching presence of the police state.&lt;br /&gt;
:As soon as I restored, I will lead the tribunals and return Rationalwiki to its former glory. The infamous show trial, through which the elite tried to silence me, has failed miserably. The following users will be brought in front of the revolutionary tribunals;&lt;br /&gt;
:Foster the Cruel&lt;br /&gt;
:Psygremlin the Prejudiced&lt;br /&gt;
:Blue the Fascist&lt;br /&gt;
:Ace the Wicked&lt;br /&gt;
:Dirk the Dick&lt;br /&gt;
:Brx the Dix&lt;br /&gt;
:Tyrannis the sycophant&lt;br /&gt;
:AD the Sophist&lt;br /&gt;
:Trent the Oblivious&lt;br /&gt;
:Hamilton the fake Conservative&lt;br /&gt;
:When we have removed these cancerous growths, Rationalwiki will be returned to health. Patience, comrades! [[User:MarcusCicero|MarcusCicero]] ([[User talk:MarcusCicero|talk]]) 20:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You have odd taste in porn. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 21:34, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sexy parts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Well, that got your attention. Pervert.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyways, there are a few RW articles on sex/sex acts/naughty bits that have been nominated for deletion, or probably should. As a part of the [[RationalWiki:Gender Studies project | Gender Studies project]] I'm going to combine them into one larger article and sort through/expand some stuff that actually is useful/relevant from the bullshit. For now, I'm just going to combine and purge obvious crap. Tomorrow I'll actually sort through relevant stuff and expand where needed. In the mean time I request the following:&lt;br /&gt;
* Don't delete the fucking article (I'm looking at you, Nutty)&lt;br /&gt;
* Make any suggestions for relevant stuff to stick in that you can think of here or in the combined talk page&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that's about it.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 23:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Howzabout you wait for some community input before deleting articles that have been here since 2008? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 00:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Howzabout you notice that those articles were already nominated for deletion and that each of them had three votes: all for deletion.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 00:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Merging doesn't guarantee survival. Depending on the reasons for deletion, this may mean that the sections will still have to be &amp;quot;trimmed&amp;quot; from the merged article.&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you are unhappy about the fate of a certain article, bring it up here so more people can notice the discussion.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Huh? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 21:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can't believe we have an article on [[Nigel Farage|the Malay word for Vagina]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We could have decent articles on some of these subjects. Clitoris for example could discuss female genital mutilation, hymen virginity, penis &amp;amp; vagina their role in religion etc rather than what Americ gets up to in its spare time.[[User:Albannach|Albannach]] ([[User talk:Albannach|talk]]) 07:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:RW also has an article on the English (borrowed) word for &amp;quot;[[misogyny|denigrating people by comparing them to female genitalia]]&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:Anyway, there is already an article about [[FGM]], and why you want to discuss hymen virginity in an article about the clitoris is a mystery to me. It's probably some kind of irony I'm too literal-minded to grok...--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 08:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::What is your proposed title for the combined article? I can't imagine that anyone would expect to type &amp;quot;sexy parts&amp;quot; into a wiki and a page come up. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well see, I had already left redirects to all of the articles we have for no reason that no one supports the existence of, like clitoris and penis had put them into a single larger article that I named &amp;quot;sex myths and woo&amp;quot; and had cut most of the irrelevant bullshit. Then some reactionary piece of shit decided I could fuck myself, and completely undid my work for no fucking reason. --[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Nice attitude, bub. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 16:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Because &amp;quot;Sex myths and woo&amp;quot; is something logical to type into a wiki.  Right on. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 20:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Such is watching whoever this guy is run a &amp;quot;Gender Studies Project&amp;quot; on a skeptical wiki. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 21:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::There was an article titled &amp;quot;Atlas Juggs&amp;quot; and there is currently one titled &amp;quot;$cientology&amp;quot;, and you're bitching about &amp;quot;sex myths&amp;quot; and an attempt to improve articles on sex and gender? Sure sure children, I believe that. &amp;quot;skeptical wiki&amp;quot; my ass.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 22:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Those are redirects, not articles, &amp;amp; don't seem relevant to the subject at hand anyway.  If you're trying to run a wikiproject, please take a more collaborative approach to editing &amp;amp; don't lash out at people who disagree with you.  &amp;amp; Really, if this is a Gender Studies Project, pronouncements like &amp;quot;A lot of female sex myths are about the existence of certain naughty bits, like the clitoris and g-spot&amp;quot; aren't a great way to get started. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:There's so much misinfo about sex out there that sex education is very much on-mission. Condensing everything into a single article is a fail. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Strong agree. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 00:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== PZ Myers quits skepticism? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
PZ Myers claims he is quitting skepticism. Then [[Freethought blogs|FTB]] goes down. (Cached version of the post here: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FybDtJC6TWgJ:freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/05/i-officially-divorce-myself-from-the-skeptic-movement/+&amp;amp;cd=1&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;ct=clnk&amp;amp;gl=us]) [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 16:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 16:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
::Actually, I hastily misread the post, nvrmind on this count--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:59, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:The events are probably unrelated, as the &amp;quot;quitting skepticism&amp;quot; post and the other reactions to Jamy Ian Swiss' speech were posted some days ago.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 17:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::On the other hand, if he isn't, maybe skeptics will finally be rid of new atheists--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I never pay attention to this guy. What exactly does he mean by &amp;quot;the skeptic movement&amp;quot;?Is that the same thing as the angry atheists?  [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 19:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Depends who you ask...  I think here he means skeptics at large, in contrast to skeptics at large who hate religion--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 19:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::I think he means Jamy Ian Swiss and his buddies at the JREF/TAM. The rift between vocal atheists and certain parts of the skeptics movement is not new.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 20:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::So he's pissed off because other people who brand themselves as &amp;quot;skeptics&amp;quot; don't hate religion enough? Or because they hate it too much? Or hate it in the correct amount, but the wrong way? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Let my inspiration flow/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|In token lines suggesting rhythm.]] 20:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Rather because some skeptics have adapted an antagonistic against anti-theists.  I guess if we have to ask who started it, you could say Jamy Ian Swiss and others like him for criticizing the likes of PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins.  But then again, people who enjoy debunking pseudoscience may not necessarily appreciate having their movement hijacked by people who claim religion is the most evil thing ever (no, that's not an exaggeration).  I've only just become aware of this particular spat, though, and I've only looked at it through Myers' lenses.  I could be missing something.  I often miss things.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 20:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Both the more &amp;quot;proper&amp;quot; skeptical movement and the new-atheist (or anti-theist) movements have the same rhetorical problem: they come across as angry (largely white, largely male) people who appear to be focused on attacking people rather than exploring ideas, in part bacause that's what's memorable about what they do. (And ref: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIiznLE5Xno Jamy Ian Swiss's speech]) From my perspective, they both don't look great in this spat, at least. [[File:Sterilesig.svg]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Sterile|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I see [http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2013/05/pz-myers-quits-skeptic-movement-should.html Massimo] has commented on this issue; an interesting read. Although I didn't follow the TF/PZ spat closely it always seemed there was something a little suspect about PZs actions there. This specific instance seems like a repeat performance, it seems he might have flown off the handle a little early. My humble opinions is that the echo chamber is starting to take it's toll on his ideology and he is losing perspective on his own ignorance in certain areas. IF this is true it will be sad to see such a great guy, and great thinker flame out; but perhaps there is a cathartic tale here that we can all learn from? [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 05:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Sounds like PZ being PZ. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
:::I only scanned through the speech, but it seems like the blog post had very little to do with the speech. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 16:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My impression is that it's a broader reaction to the anti-feminist and unquestioning Libertarian blocs of the movements, and being overly accommodating of theists is a fairly small part of the problem, albeit maybe the trigger. The problem is all the people within the movement who simply won't give up their preconceived notions, and theist skeptics aren't even remotely the largest part of the problem. Look at it this way -- it's nearly impossible to discuss feminism with the sort of people like the commenter on Massimo's page who implied that Rebecca Watson is part of the radical fringe of feminism. Right now, the skeptic/atheist movement is in the middle of an unmitigated meltdown, and the prejudiced assholes are winning with the idiot's veto. Since so many of us are the type who got wedgied in high school, the idea that PZ and company are being bullies resonates with a lot of people who should know better. Ego-stroking circle-jerkers (i.e. Slymepitters) win, science and education lose. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, it seems like Myers wants to take his ball and go home because someone somewhere said something he didn't like. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 22:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Only if you ignore the overall context. Believe me, there's plenty of things to be frustrated with in the current skeptical movement, and PZ has discussed all of them. It's pretty dishonest to take this as an isolated lashing out in that light. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Which is why the post is all about Elevatorgate and Randroids. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 23:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Look. I'm no stranger to getting bitched at because I lash out at something because I've had more than I can handle in a much larger context, and it always seems to come down to someone trying to take my objections in isolation and ignoring the overall context. It's a pretty standard emotional manipulation tactic, so you'll understand if I'm not exactly accomodating on this point. As you are no doubt aware, context changes the overall meaning of what's said, which is the entire point why we have an article on [[elision]] (yes, that's copypasta-with-attribution, but Stephanie Zwan made the point better than I ever could). In this case, the context not only includes theism but also a lot of other unexamined beliefs, and a large number of loud and militantly stupid people trying to keep skepticism out of those corners. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 23:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::So how is that different from &amp;quot;someone said something he didn't like&amp;quot;? --[[Special:Contributions/81.175.227.88|81.175.227.88]] ([[User talk:81.175.227.88|talk]]) 00:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Aren't those problems inherent in the atheist movement too EV? I haven't paid much attention to the brouhaha over 'Elevatorgate' (I was travelling when it happened) but my sense in reading the various summaries was that the criticism wasn't so much aimed at just Skeptic movement but at atheism in general too... I think you might be too charitable to PZ here. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 00:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::The atheist movement is almost but not quite a subset of the skeptical movement, so the problem affects both. As for &amp;quot;someone said something he didn't like&amp;quot;, yes, you could assert that and not be ''wrong'' per se, but it's sort of like describing Jim Crow as &amp;quot;racial harassment&amp;quot; or calling ''Death of a Salesman'' a play about insurance fraud. The choice of words vastly understates the nature of the problem. It's why we take issue with dogwhistles and quote-mining, or people ignoring case law when discussing constitutional issues -- people pretending the plain meaning of a statement is all there is to it, when it comes from a big web of context, of what someone's said in the past, of their stated (and, as necessary, actual) points of view, and therefore potentially means something completely different. That in and of itself is something we, as proclaimed skeptics, need to keep an eye out for, especially if we're the ones doing it. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 01:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bulgarian elections ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, a link to a [[RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive194#BOC's new Patriarch and other fun stuff at home|previous &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;discussion&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; whining for context]]. The elections were held today, amidst a lot of &amp;quot;fun&amp;quot; stuff. 45 entries on the ballot (38 single parties and 7 coalitions). Number #45 is the Union of Communists in Bulgaria (one of the small parties with no chances), which caused some snickering, as Commie rule in Bulgaria lasted 45 years and one of the slogans of the 1990s was &amp;quot;45 years are enough!&amp;quot;. Lots of scandals in the weeks before the elections, including one major one on the &amp;quot;day for thought&amp;quot; before the election day itself - an allegation that a large number of fake ballots have been found at the printing house (according to the owner, these are just the badly printed ones). High chances of a coalition cabinet (bad news) and/or another elections in the autumn. Any questions? --[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 17:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What's so bad about coalition government? [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 22:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::ask the lib dems[[User:AMassiveGay|AMassiveGay]] ([[User talk:AMassiveGay|talk]]) 23:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Truther bingo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does anyone know a good one? (I'm talking about the equivalent of [[Fun:Creationist Argument Bingo|this]], if you havn't heard of the concept.) I recently came into the possession of a home-grown 9/11 truther DVD which I'm considering taking a look at. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:12, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Shouldn't be hard to make one. You're on your own for implementation, but here's an informal description of the algorithm:&lt;br /&gt;
:*Make a list of truther terms.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Select 24 terms from that list and shuffle them into a random order.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Populate a 5x5 grid (with the center as the free space of course) with the terms. &lt;br /&gt;
:*Print.&lt;br /&gt;
:*Repeat until you have enough bingo cards for all snarkers. &lt;br /&gt;
:*Engage in fruitless debate with crazy person. &lt;br /&gt;
:That should do it. (Perl or Scheme would probably be the best implementation language, closely followed by PHP and, if you're brave, PostScript.) [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 01:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Will Andy reevaluate his stance on Facebook? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/facebooks-mark-zuckerberg-turning-out-be-another-billionaire-conservative Mark Zuckerberg may be a Republican.] &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Okay, yeah, it's Alternet, which is one of the loonier leftie sites. But will Andy declare him a RINO or embrace his new brethren? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Andy who? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 17:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I say RINO because Zuckerberg is an atheist and no atheist could be a real conservative.--[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] - Just an astronomy guy 18:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::RINO for sure, between Mark's atheism and FB having same-sex marriage icons. [[User:Polite_Timesplitter|Polite Timesplitter]] [[User talk:Polite Timesplitter|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Let's move on to some other area of sodomy!&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:How exactly is Alternet loony? I find they cover rather a lot of ground, and most of it's pretty reasonable. You want loony, try places like HuffPo that actively promote woo. [[User:EVDebs|EVDebs]] ([[User talk:EVDebs|talk]]) 22:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The racket of academic publishing ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This coming June, I have the unique pleasure of seeing my academic work in print for the first time, by a respected journal with a big-name patrician guest editor who invited me personally to publish the article after hearing me present the paper at a conference. Only problem is, this journal recently got bought out by the publishing mega-conglomerate Taylor and Francis, which has developed a reputation for having one of the the most draconian copyright transfer agreements in the business. Since this was a chance I couldn't turn down, I swallowed my misgivings and signed the rights over, even though I'm working on publishing a book including some of the same material, and will likely have to pay for the permission to re-use it. I'm also a big fan of Open Access, as is the university I work for, so I checked out Taylor and Francis's option. For a single 20-page article, they wanted $2000 to make it Open Access. Ok, so give up that idea. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What about having a copy of the issue for my bookshelf? Unfortunately, Taylor and Francis does not give free copies away to authors, but they do &amp;quot;allow&amp;quot; you to buy reprints for the relatively reasonable rate of $20 per issue. So I went to their &amp;quot;Author Services&amp;quot; page, handled by Rightslink and the Copyright Clearance Center, ordered my copy, and entered my European address. Shipping for this single issue, provided by FedEx, was quoted to me as costing at minimum $278.90! No other shipping options were given, it was FedEx or nothing. This is the point when I was ready to grab a pitchfork. There is no way that shipping could possibly cost that much. This particular journal is far from a heavy tome, weighing a maximum of 2 kg soaking wet. Just to check I went to the FedEx website to calculate how much it would cost to ship a 2.5-kg package from the USA to my doorstep. Their answer? Around $90-$130! In my opinion, that's still way too expensive--my family sends me books through the USPS at around $60. Even accepting this, the price that Rightslink quoted me is still double or triple this price! Where, dare I wonder, would that extra $190 be going?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And what, you may ask, if I just want an offprint of my article rather than the full issue? Forget about it: the minimum order for offprints is 50 copies, at $365, not including shipping of course.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let's leave aside the fact that I signed away years' worth of work with no compensation: none of us are in it for the money anyway, and are happy to have the work out there and visible to people who can benefit from it. Let's leave aside the philosophical scruples I have about giving my work away for free to a huge corporation that makes serious profits by charging exorbitant rates for it to libraries all over the first world: that's a necessary evil of academic publishing, at least on the Anglo-American scene. To charge me anything for a copy of my work is already pushing it--in the performing arts this would be akin to making an opera singer pay for admission to their own performance. But to, in addition to all of this, contract the services of a shipping company that charges 6-8 times ordinary market rates, and up to 3 times what that same company typically charges, reeks of exploitation and corporate cronyism. A corporation with as much power as Taylor and Francis could easily negotiate lower than usual shipping prices, but here they've obviously done the opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The end result is, I have to pay effectively $300 to own a single copy of an article I provided to Taylor and Francis for no fee, an article representing several years of research. Does anyone else have a similar story?&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Junggai|Junggai]] ([[User talk:Junggai|talk]]) 22:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It is an issue, I wouldn't bother purchasing a hard copy; you have it on your hard-drive and there should be plenty more publications to come if you continue in a career in academia. [[User:Tielec01|Tielec01]] ([[User talk:Tielec01|talk]]) 00:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I sympathise. I believe the attitude of the institution I used to work for was that Green OA wasn't negotiable. Want their research? Then you have to allow OA. No OA? No publication. And to ensure nobody does a backdoor deal, the metrics used to assess people's career trajectory all run off the institution's Green OA e-prints service. So &amp;quot;I got published with no OA&amp;quot; became basically career suicide for anybody who needs those numbers to look good. They are cheating though because they do a bunch of the research in open access, they'd hired key people involved in arXiv, CogPrints and so on, so the stuff that looks like administrative overhead to other institutions just counts as more research to them. One of my friends built one of the world's top e-prints servers (GNU Eprints) as a sort of side project that got out of hand. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 01:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Double mastectomy==&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/opinion/my-medical-choice.html Uh...er...wow.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 05:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Minnesota slated to legalize gay marriage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/207231321.html This] is what I've been spending all my free time and some of my spare change for the last 2 years helping to work towards. To think, only a year ago, we almost constitutionally banned it. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 05:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:RationalWikiWiki</id>
		<title>Talk:RationalWikiWiki</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:RationalWikiWiki"/>
				<updated>2013-05-02T10:09:26Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* who the fuck shut down my wiki */ If you want it, please take it and all that that entails.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Um, the production values are a bit low because it was just founded TODAY!&lt;br /&gt;
:At least it seems to be growing rapidly! --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:00, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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Shouldn't the logo be '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[[[brain]]]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;''' instead of the normal '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[brain]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;'''? Or maybe '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[brain]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;2&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;'''? ;) --[[User:Sid|Sid]] 08:22, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:I suggest a picture of [[wp:Harvey Cushing]]. :nods: --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:17, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::That's a really obscurantist gag AKjeldsen.--[[User:Bob_M|Bob]][[User_Talk:Bob_M|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;bing up&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 05:19, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Thank you. :-) --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:51, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
Title.  Wouldn't it have been funnier (and actually more appropriate) to call this article &amp;quot;RationalWiki:RationalWikiWiki&amp;quot;? '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 17:48, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks, whoever did it! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 15:11, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Infinite regression ==&lt;br /&gt;
I propose the creation of  RationalWikiWikiWiki to report on the activities at RationalWikiWiki as it reports on RationalWiki which in turn is reporting on the goings on at CP while it tries to counter the &amp;quot;left wing bias&amp;quot; at WP.--[[User:Bob_M|Bob]][[User_Talk:Bob_M|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;bing up&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 05:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== WAAA ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Have you lost interest in RationalWikiWki? There have been no edits in weeks :(   --[[User:72.232.23.238|72.232.23.238]] 14:01, 17 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yup! [[User:SusanG|&amp;lt;font color = &amp;quot;0022ff&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Susan&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:SusanG|&amp;lt;font color = &amp;quot;775500&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Purrrrrrr''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 14:10, 17 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Interesting - I note that bunchanumbers used the same mispelig that is in RWW's url... Someone put out their eye! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 17:31, 6 March 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Its not a mispelling, that's the maximum. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:23, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==&amp;quot;Phail Two, RIP&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
Someone needs to start up another wiki so we can have detailed analysis of this scandal. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 00:59, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Absolutely.  RationalWikiWikiWiki @ editthisinfo, anyone? All the good usernames are still available! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:12, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;RationalWikiWikiWiki&amp;quot; has too many letters. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:18, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::So misspell it, like they did. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:35, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Give me a good 15 letter title and I will do it. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:RatWikiWikiWiki '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:49, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://editthis.info/ratwikiwikiwiki/Main_Page] [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
== RationalWikiWiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
RWW is too snarky.  It says too much about what’s bad about us as individuals.  It says too much about what’s bad about us as a group.  We’re not as bad as RWW makes out.  We’re a rapidly growing Wiki with good articles.  We need less destructive criticism and more constructive encouragement.&lt;br /&gt;
There is always a risk here and at RWW that Christian [[Agent provocateur]]s are playing on the weaknesses of those here who are tempted to  be snarky and putting us against each other.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 04:29, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:We have no reason to believe the are Christian provocateurs among us.  And I think we could pick up any; the last person whose edits were interpreted as even vaguely creationist felt the wrath of RationalWiki crash down upon him and he was banned.  And I think we do a fine job of pitting each other against ourselves—we don't need anyone's help.  : )  By the way, are you sure this was the most appropriate place to bring up RationalWikiWiki?  It felt sort of... out of the blue.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 05:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that's the whole point of an agent provocateur, isn't it? You don't realize they're agents until its... too late! &amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;''Oh noes!''&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Where should I discuss RWW?[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 06:25, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[RationalWiki_talk:RationalWikiWiki]] is probably best. --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I've copied this from [[RationalWiki talk:Cat fight]].[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 07:06, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;Whoops!  Ah, sorry, I forgot what page this was on.  My browser was here, my mind... somewhere else.  -_-  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 01:41, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:It seems I didn't realize the page had been moved from the earlier page I made my first comment on.  Which is just as bad a mistake as the post I just struck out above.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 03:39, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:And I would just like to mention RW doesn't have good articles. Articles here are written from a NPOV. If I wanted to learn about something, I'd read Wikipedia or even God forbid read a book. This place is a pisstake. [[User:134.226.1.234|134.226.1.234]] 12:02, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Missed the point you have. [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:34, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Eh, what? [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:29, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Barbara, RWW is just another website.  The fact that we know about them (and even participate) might make it seem weird.  Imagine how CP feels about RW... every spelling error ends up on WIGO CP, every personal foible there is magnified on this site.  And, just as CP has no control over RW, but the two sites share some editors, RW ''has no control over'' RWW, even though the two sites share some editors.  If you don't like what RWW says, don't go there.  Keep in mind, RWW could just as easily be some blog that we don't know exists, saying the same things (or worse).  Having said that... what is your point or goal?  What change do you seek to effect? '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 11:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I want less snarkiness here and, to  the extent that we have influence I want less snarkiness in RWW.[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 13:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:First, have you read [[RationalWiki:SPOV]]?  Second, I must note that you seemed happy to write the first, very snarky, version of [[gay sex]].  As far as RWW... well, I edit there, but play &amp;quot;follow the leader&amp;quot; on editorial content.  You also edit there, so have the freedom to do whatever you can get away with to improve or alter their tone and content. Thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 13:33, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I don’t mind being snarky about [[Andrew Schlafly]], [[Phyllis Schlafly]] and that lot.  I just don’t like us being snarky against fellow freethinkers.[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 07:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree that we should not unnecessarily persecute our fellows, Barbara, but I also think we should be able to laugh at ourselves.  It keeps us from getting arrogant, I think.  We just have to learn where to draw the line between the two.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 08:06, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Just as we have [[Really Embarrassing Liberals]], if a &amp;quot;freethinker&amp;quot; says or does something foolish, we can mock them just as readily as anyone else - and should do so.  It adds to our credibility.  Note that at least a few RationalWikians find Dawkins latest book to be less than &amp;quot;top shelf&amp;quot;.  And I am somteimes just as embarrassed by militant atheists as by [[bible thumper]]s. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 13:29, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Down? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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ScribbleWiki appears to be Down.  (Easter Holiday?)[[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 20:44, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Might be temporary, but, yeah, the last time I tried to reload recent changes the little red light just kept flashing. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 20:49, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Since Midnight! (Good Friday Holiday) &amp;amp; it's not just RWW - Scribble itself &amp;amp; My wiki also. [[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 20:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Someone left a link at wikiCP talk, something like &amp;quot;isitjustmeorisitdownforeveryone&amp;quot; or some such silliness.  Might check that. Could be a revolution or nuclear war, too, of course.  No need to blame Jesus and the moon. Shouldn't be an equinoctal sun blockage of a communications satellite, thought, since the equinox was really yesterday anyway. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:12, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hehe, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ appears to be down for at least me. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:16, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;It's just you. scribblewiki.com is up.&amp;quot; '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Its up now, for me at least, which reminds me I was in the process of begging for SDG files. [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yup! - it's back, thanx [[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 21:25, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== They stole my logo ==&lt;br /&gt;
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That was my design, to they credit it to me? There is also a liberapediapedia now, I don't know who made it, I don't the point myself. [[User:Ajuk|Ajuk]] 09:10, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If you go there and bring it up at, say, talk:main, I am sure due credit will be given.  Although it is known that it came from LP, the &amp;quot;author&amp;quot; may not have been noted.  I'm not sure, though. By the way, it wasn't &amp;quot;stolen&amp;quot; - you gave the brainz legs, and they walked into the office on their own, sat down, smoked all our cigarettes, drank most of our booze, and refused to leave.  '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 12:53, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Damn those brainz! Who need 'em, anyway? --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:41, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== THE IDENTITY OF HANS JOHNSON ==&lt;br /&gt;
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HANS HAS MADE A MISTAKE. [http://rationalwikiwiki.scribblewiki.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMain_Page&amp;amp;diff=4902&amp;amp;oldid=4901 This] and [http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User%3ARadioactive_afikomen&amp;amp;diff=192758&amp;amp;oldid=191352 this]. '''THE IDENTITY OF HANS JOHNSON IS KNOWN!''' --[[Image:US-O11 insignia svg.png|17px]] [[User:Storytellershrink|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Gen. S.T. Shrink'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:Storytellershrink|&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:Purple&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''Get to the bunker'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;]] 03:31, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I have previously connected them to the same IP a couple of months ago, on an admittedly shaky grounds; RA said the IP was his and then the IP a couple of months later made an edit to HJ talk page that it would seem only like the user would make. I have posted such speculation in a place he would have seen so perhaps this is just a deceitful attempt to confirm incorrect theories of his identity.[[user:Icewedge| - Icewedge]] ([[user talk:Icewedge|*bleet*]]) 04:07, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I just always assumed he was our pet juvenile delinquent, radioactive cracker person. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 04:30, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{User:Chaos!/sig12}} ?esaelp ,won '''no evom''' ew naC .toob ot ,ereh ti ta ylivaeh detnih dna ,egap resu aidepolcycnU sih no semit lareves oge retla sih saw snaH taht ylnepo dettimda AR .semit eht dniheb yllacigart lla er'uoY&lt;br /&gt;
::::True, but not everyone is as &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;stalkerish&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; well-informed as you, Cha. --{{User:AKjeldsen/sig}} 12:17, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::{{User:Chaos!/sig12}} .liaf fo edam era yeht ,si ecnereffid ehT .ti ta bats gnicnivnoc ylriaf a gnivah era relletyrotS dna egdewecI&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Epic called. He'd like to have his win back. --{{User:AKjeldsen/sig}} 12:30, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== User lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
Aww, I don't appear in any of the [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Category:Users lists] of [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/List_of_active_users users] with a stupid caption next to my name. (sniff) [[User:Crundy|Crundy]] 10:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Redirect ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm being redirected here whenever I try to open RWW. Is anyone else having this problem? [[User:Phantom Hoover|''&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#007500&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;zapfino&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;'']] 08:47, 11 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes. It's redirecting to the RW mainpage for some reason. [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=red face=&amp;quot;Tahoma&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''&amp;lt;font size=4&amp;gt;A&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''rmondiko'''&amp;lt;font size=4&amp;gt;V&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|{{user:Armondikov/sigtalk}}]] 08:55, 11 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fakes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone who's bothered (although I can't see why anyone should be) might like to nip over there &amp;amp; claim their username - there's three claimnants to SusanG @ the moment and one to me! {{User:Toast/sig/sig}} 04:36, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting. I shall be having ''words'' with them about this. {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 04:50, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're all the same person, now with at least 6 accounts over there. But if this does happen, anyone can ask us to rename the fakes on our talk pages here. --&amp;amp;nbsp;'''[[User:Nx|&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Nx''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;]]/'''[[User talk:Nx|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;text-decoration: overline; font-size:xx-small;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''talk''&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:53, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have not got six accounts &amp;quot;over there&amp;quot;, (I've got 12 &amp;amp; none of them a Susan or a Toast) [[User:Haversack Williamsburg|Haversack Williamsburg]] 05:04, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Err ==&lt;br /&gt;
RationalWikiWiki has a problem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fatal error: Call to a member function selectRow() on a non-object in /home/rwwiki/public_html/wiki/includes/User.php on line 777&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{User:Toast/sig/sig}} 17:56, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Trent might be sorting something out... {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 17:59, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Supposedly it was me who broke it (the new password didn't match what LocalSettings said it should be).  I fixed it now, and I just double- and triple-checked it, but for some reason it still says it's broken.  Maybe the server needs to &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot; or something?  {{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 18:17, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I refuse to comment; I'm still bitter that you didn't let me into the root password gang. {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 13:28, 10 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Why? What would you want with root access? (and I don't have the password either, and am not bitter about it) --&amp;amp;nbsp;'''[[User:Nx|&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Nx''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;]]/'''[[User talk:Nx|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;text-decoration: overline; font-size:xx-small;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''talk''&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 15:15, 10 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== What a shame ==&lt;br /&gt;
They haven't discovered me yet.  I was looking forward to some humor.[[User:Gooniepunk2005|The Goonie 1]] 08:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They are really slow on the uptake.  Surely by now our epic battles would deserve comment?  And your epic struggle to fame with your band? RWW are such losers... {{User:Human/sig|}} 08:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The chance of a person or event here making it onto RWW is proportional to it being relevant to CUR in some way. [[User:Totnesmartin|Totnesmartin]] 08:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Local wikigod(dess) - Peanut on Legs (earmuffed).&lt;br /&gt;
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== Borken (again!) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attempting to create an account fails right now, because the reCAPTCHA says &amp;quot;Input error: Invalid referer&amp;quot;. --[[User:Maratrean|Maratrean]] ([[User talk:Maratrean|talk]]) 10:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Worked for me, try it again. [[User:Tyrannis|Тy]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Tyrannis|{{User:Tyrannis/quotes|}}]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:10, 14 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Yes it is working for me now too. Must be a gremlin infestation. --[[User:Maratrean|Maratrean]] ([[User talk:Maratrean|talk]]) 07:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 500 error ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aww, I liked that...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, it still does come up with the error from time to time, though not as much as it was in the runup to the botserver crashing last year. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|''Monomorium antarcticum'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 02:34, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:GODDAMNMOTHERFUCKINGPIECEOFSHITINFERNALHELLBLASTEDLAMEASS500INTERNALSERVERERRORSAREBACKGODDAMN [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Тy&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Ahoy!&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:52, 6 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::ROFLYSST.[[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 11:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== So what the hell happened? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Huh? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 13:57, 23 November 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You'd been there, right? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|95px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|17px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 14:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== who the fuck shut down my wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i want answers and i want them now [[User talk:Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#ff0000&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Time&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Word&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Bastard&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Harmonic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Stupid&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Educated&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Wisest&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Cubic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Evil&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Mindless&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] [[Special:Contributions/Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=#000000&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;time&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;word&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;bastard&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;harmonic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;stupid&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;educated&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;wisest&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;cubic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;evil&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;drug&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] [[User:Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000ff&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=2&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=2&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:No-one &amp;quot;shut it down&amp;quot;. No-one was willing to keep paying the money to keep it open, and hence it died of natural causes. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:49, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That's rather wishful analysis when the [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page main page] banner states &amp;quot;RationalWikiWiki's owner, Punky McPunkerson, has decided to '''shut this site down''''.&amp;quot;  He discussed the decision in the same terms in various places ([http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#So_what_the_fuck_was_the_point_of_deleting_this_stuff.3F main page talk], [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/RationalWikiWiki:Treehouse#Announcement treehouse]) without taking on board others' opinions about the shut-down or discussing alternative funding. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 07:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::That's an even more wishful analysis of what happened. Bottom line: RationalWikians are both drama whores and toxic to each other. When I took over RWW, it was during an era of relative calm on RationalWiki, and I thought it would be a fun project to take over and give relief to the limited resources of RWF. And not long after, RationalWiki became a toxic atmosphere of factionalism in which every alliance I had made decided that I had to choose between &amp;quot;us&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;them.&amp;quot; I wanted neither. Rather than choose between Group A or Group B, I opted to shut down RationalWikiWiki until the dust cleared. It cleared, and in my naiivity, I thought I could re-tool the place to where none of the factions could say the other could have an advantage in POV. Of course, I was wrong. RWW's POV was not the point, RWW was simply the vehicle by which these groups choose to fight, and once again (rather than pick sides when I consider both to be inherently full of it) I decided simply to cease funding the site. At this point, if people actually want to continue RWW, please let myself or Trent know. But I've had more than enough of being thrown into this stupid, childish factionalism on RationalWiki, and I will not give another goddamn dime towards it when, in reality, I want and wanted no part of it to begin with! [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 10:09, 2 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::How much traffic could it have gotten? It couldn't have costed much to host. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 15:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It cost me $10/month on average to host it. If Hoover wants it, and all the stupid bullshit drama that comes with being owner, he can have it. Just let me know! [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:59, 2 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:RationalWikiWiki</id>
		<title>Talk:RationalWikiWiki</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:RationalWikiWiki"/>
				<updated>2013-05-02T09:59:23Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* who the fuck shut down my wiki */ If Hoover wants it, he can take it!!!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Um, the production values are a bit low because it was just founded TODAY!&lt;br /&gt;
:At least it seems to be growing rapidly! --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:00, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shouldn't the logo be '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[[[brain]]]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;''' instead of the normal '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[brain]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;'''? Or maybe '''&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;[[brain]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;2&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;'''? ;) --[[User:Sid|Sid]] 08:22, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:I suggest a picture of [[wp:Harvey Cushing]]. :nods: --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:17, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::That's a really obscurantist gag AKjeldsen.--[[User:Bob_M|Bob]][[User_Talk:Bob_M|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;bing up&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 05:19, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Thank you. :-) --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:51, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
Title.  Wouldn't it have been funnier (and actually more appropriate) to call this article &amp;quot;RationalWiki:RationalWikiWiki&amp;quot;? '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 17:48, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks, whoever did it! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 15:11, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Infinite regression ==&lt;br /&gt;
I propose the creation of  RationalWikiWikiWiki to report on the activities at RationalWikiWiki as it reports on RationalWiki which in turn is reporting on the goings on at CP while it tries to counter the &amp;quot;left wing bias&amp;quot; at WP.--[[User:Bob_M|Bob]][[User_Talk:Bob_M|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;bing up&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 05:32, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== WAAA ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Have you lost interest in RationalWikiWki? There have been no edits in weeks :(   --[[User:72.232.23.238|72.232.23.238]] 14:01, 17 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yup! [[User:SusanG|&amp;lt;font color = &amp;quot;0022ff&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Susan&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:SusanG|&amp;lt;font color = &amp;quot;775500&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Purrrrrrr''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 14:10, 17 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Interesting - I note that bunchanumbers used the same mispelig that is in RWW's url... Someone put out their eye! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 17:31, 6 March 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Its not a mispelling, that's the maximum. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:23, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==&amp;quot;Phail Two, RIP&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
Someone needs to start up another wiki so we can have detailed analysis of this scandal. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 00:59, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Absolutely.  RationalWikiWikiWiki @ editthisinfo, anyone? All the good usernames are still available! '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:12, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;RationalWikiWikiWiki&amp;quot; has too many letters. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:18, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::So misspell it, like they did. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:35, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Give me a good 15 letter title and I will do it. [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:RatWikiWikiWiki '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 01:49, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://editthis.info/ratwikiwikiwiki/Main_Page] [[User talk:TmtamesP|TmtamesP]] 01:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
== RationalWikiWiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
RWW is too snarky.  It says too much about what’s bad about us as individuals.  It says too much about what’s bad about us as a group.  We’re not as bad as RWW makes out.  We’re a rapidly growing Wiki with good articles.  We need less destructive criticism and more constructive encouragement.&lt;br /&gt;
There is always a risk here and at RWW that Christian [[Agent provocateur]]s are playing on the weaknesses of those here who are tempted to  be snarky and putting us against each other.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 04:29, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:We have no reason to believe the are Christian provocateurs among us.  And I think we could pick up any; the last person whose edits were interpreted as even vaguely creationist felt the wrath of RationalWiki crash down upon him and he was banned.  And I think we do a fine job of pitting each other against ourselves—we don't need anyone's help.  : )  By the way, are you sure this was the most appropriate place to bring up RationalWikiWiki?  It felt sort of... out of the blue.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 05:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::But that's the whole point of an agent provocateur, isn't it? You don't realize they're agents until its... too late! &amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;''Oh noes!''&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Where should I discuss RWW?[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 06:25, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[RationalWiki_talk:RationalWikiWiki]] is probably best. --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 06:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I've copied this from [[RationalWiki talk:Cat fight]].[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 07:06, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;Whoops!  Ah, sorry, I forgot what page this was on.  My browser was here, my mind... somewhere else.  -_-  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 01:41, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:It seems I didn't realize the page had been moved from the earlier page I made my first comment on.  Which is just as bad a mistake as the post I just struck out above.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 03:39, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:And I would just like to mention RW doesn't have good articles. Articles here are written from a NPOV. If I wanted to learn about something, I'd read Wikipedia or even God forbid read a book. This place is a pisstake. [[User:134.226.1.234|134.226.1.234]] 12:02, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Missed the point you have. [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:34, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Eh, what? [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:29, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Barbara, RWW is just another website.  The fact that we know about them (and even participate) might make it seem weird.  Imagine how CP feels about RW... every spelling error ends up on WIGO CP, every personal foible there is magnified on this site.  And, just as CP has no control over RW, but the two sites share some editors, RW ''has no control over'' RWW, even though the two sites share some editors.  If you don't like what RWW says, don't go there.  Keep in mind, RWW could just as easily be some blog that we don't know exists, saying the same things (or worse).  Having said that... what is your point or goal?  What change do you seek to effect? '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 11:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I want less snarkiness here and, to  the extent that we have influence I want less snarkiness in RWW.[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 13:16, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:First, have you read [[RationalWiki:SPOV]]?  Second, I must note that you seemed happy to write the first, very snarky, version of [[gay sex]].  As far as RWW... well, I edit there, but play &amp;quot;follow the leader&amp;quot; on editorial content.  You also edit there, so have the freedom to do whatever you can get away with to improve or alter their tone and content. Thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 13:33, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I don’t mind being snarky about [[Andrew Schlafly]], [[Phyllis Schlafly]] and that lot.  I just don’t like us being snarky against fellow freethinkers.[[User:Barbara Shack|Barbara Shack]] 07:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree that we should not unnecessarily persecute our fellows, Barbara, but I also think we should be able to laugh at ourselves.  It keeps us from getting arrogant, I think.  We just have to learn where to draw the line between the two.  --{{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 08:06, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Just as we have [[Really Embarrassing Liberals]], if a &amp;quot;freethinker&amp;quot; says or does something foolish, we can mock them just as readily as anyone else - and should do so.  It adds to our credibility.  Note that at least a few RationalWikians find Dawkins latest book to be less than &amp;quot;top shelf&amp;quot;.  And I am somteimes just as embarrassed by militant atheists as by [[bible thumper]]s. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 13:29, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Down? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ScribbleWiki appears to be Down.  (Easter Holiday?)[[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 20:44, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Might be temporary, but, yeah, the last time I tried to reload recent changes the little red light just kept flashing. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 20:49, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Since Midnight! (Good Friday Holiday) &amp;amp; it's not just RWW - Scribble itself &amp;amp; My wiki also. [[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 20:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Someone left a link at wikiCP talk, something like &amp;quot;isitjustmeorisitdownforeveryone&amp;quot; or some such silliness.  Might check that. Could be a revolution or nuclear war, too, of course.  No need to blame Jesus and the moon. Shouldn't be an equinoctal sun blockage of a communications satellite, thought, since the equinox was really yesterday anyway. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:12, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hehe, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ appears to be down for at least me. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:16, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;It's just you. scribblewiki.com is up.&amp;quot; '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 21:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Its up now, for me at least, which reminds me I was in the process of begging for SDG files. [[User:NightFlare|NightFlare]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk: NightFlare|Speak, mortal]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:24, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yup! - it's back, thanx [[User:Marghanita Laski|Marghanita Laski]] 21:25, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== They stole my logo ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That was my design, to they credit it to me? There is also a liberapediapedia now, I don't know who made it, I don't the point myself. [[User:Ajuk|Ajuk]] 09:10, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If you go there and bring it up at, say, talk:main, I am sure due credit will be given.  Although it is known that it came from LP, the &amp;quot;author&amp;quot; may not have been noted.  I'm not sure, though. By the way, it wasn't &amp;quot;stolen&amp;quot; - you gave the brainz legs, and they walked into the office on their own, sat down, smoked all our cigarettes, drank most of our booze, and refused to leave.  '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;human&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 12:53, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Damn those brainz! Who need 'em, anyway? --[[User:AKjeldsen|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;AKjeldsen&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:AKjeldsen |&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;aqua&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Godspeed!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:41, 22 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== THE IDENTITY OF HANS JOHNSON ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
HANS HAS MADE A MISTAKE. [http://rationalwikiwiki.scribblewiki.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMain_Page&amp;amp;diff=4902&amp;amp;oldid=4901 This] and [http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User%3ARadioactive_afikomen&amp;amp;diff=192758&amp;amp;oldid=191352 this]. '''THE IDENTITY OF HANS JOHNSON IS KNOWN!''' --[[Image:US-O11 insignia svg.png|17px]] [[User:Storytellershrink|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Gen. S.T. Shrink'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:Storytellershrink|&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:Purple&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''Get to the bunker'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;]] 03:31, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I have previously connected them to the same IP a couple of months ago, on an admittedly shaky grounds; RA said the IP was his and then the IP a couple of months later made an edit to HJ talk page that it would seem only like the user would make. I have posted such speculation in a place he would have seen so perhaps this is just a deceitful attempt to confirm incorrect theories of his identity.[[user:Icewedge| - Icewedge]] ([[user talk:Icewedge|*bleet*]]) 04:07, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I just always assumed he was our pet juvenile delinquent, radioactive cracker person. '''[[user:human|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#DD00DD&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;comic sans ms&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;ħ&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;uman&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 04:30, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{User:Chaos!/sig12}} ?esaelp ,won '''no evom''' ew naC .toob ot ,ereh ti ta ylivaeh detnih dna ,egap resu aidepolcycnU sih no semit lareves oge retla sih saw snaH taht ylnepo dettimda AR .semit eht dniheb yllacigart lla er'uoY&lt;br /&gt;
::::True, but not everyone is as &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;stalkerish&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; well-informed as you, Cha. --{{User:AKjeldsen/sig}} 12:17, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::{{User:Chaos!/sig12}} .liaf fo edam era yeht ,si ecnereffid ehT .ti ta bats gnicnivnoc ylriaf a gnivah era relletyrotS dna egdewecI&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Epic called. He'd like to have his win back. --{{User:AKjeldsen/sig}} 12:30, 15 July 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== User lists ==&lt;br /&gt;
Aww, I don't appear in any of the [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Category:Users lists] of [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/List_of_active_users users] with a stupid caption next to my name. (sniff) [[User:Crundy|Crundy]] 10:07, 6 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Redirect ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm being redirected here whenever I try to open RWW. Is anyone else having this problem? [[User:Phantom Hoover|''&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#007500&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;zapfino&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt;'']] 08:47, 11 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes. It's redirecting to the RW mainpage for some reason. [[User:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=red face=&amp;quot;Tahoma&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''''&amp;lt;font size=4&amp;gt;A&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''rmondiko'''&amp;lt;font size=4&amp;gt;V&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|{{user:Armondikov/sigtalk}}]] 08:55, 11 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fakes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone who's bothered (although I can't see why anyone should be) might like to nip over there &amp;amp; claim their username - there's three claimnants to SusanG @ the moment and one to me! {{User:Toast/sig/sig}} 04:36, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting. I shall be having ''words'' with them about this. {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 04:50, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I think they're all the same person, now with at least 6 accounts over there. But if this does happen, anyone can ask us to rename the fakes on our talk pages here. --&amp;amp;nbsp;'''[[User:Nx|&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Nx''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;]]/'''[[User talk:Nx|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;text-decoration: overline; font-size:xx-small;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''talk''&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:53, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have not got six accounts &amp;quot;over there&amp;quot;, (I've got 12 &amp;amp; none of them a Susan or a Toast) [[User:Haversack Williamsburg|Haversack Williamsburg]] 05:04, 8 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Err ==&lt;br /&gt;
RationalWikiWiki has a problem&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fatal error: Call to a member function selectRow() on a non-object in /home/rwwiki/public_html/wiki/includes/User.php on line 777&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{User:Toast/sig/sig}} 17:56, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Trent might be sorting something out... {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 17:59, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Supposedly it was me who broke it (the new password didn't match what LocalSettings said it should be).  I fixed it now, and I just double- and triple-checked it, but for some reason it still says it's broken.  Maybe the server needs to &amp;quot;reload&amp;quot; or something?  {{User:Radioactive afikomen/sig}} 18:17, 9 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I refuse to comment; I'm still bitter that you didn't let me into the root password gang. {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 13:28, 10 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Why? What would you want with root access? (and I don't have the password either, and am not bitter about it) --&amp;amp;nbsp;'''[[User:Nx|&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Nx''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;]]/'''[[User talk:Nx|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;text-decoration: overline; font-size:xx-small;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''talk''&amp;amp;nbsp;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 15:15, 10 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What a shame ==&lt;br /&gt;
They haven't discovered me yet.  I was looking forward to some humor.[[User:Gooniepunk2005|The Goonie 1]] 08:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:They are really slow on the uptake.  Surely by now our epic battles would deserve comment?  And your epic struggle to fame with your band? RWW are such losers... {{User:Human/sig|}} 08:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The chance of a person or event here making it onto RWW is proportional to it being relevant to CUR in some way. [[User:Totnesmartin|Totnesmartin]] 08:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Local wikigod(dess) - Peanut on Legs (earmuffed).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Borken (again!) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attempting to create an account fails right now, because the reCAPTCHA says &amp;quot;Input error: Invalid referer&amp;quot;. --[[User:Maratrean|Maratrean]] ([[User talk:Maratrean|talk]]) 10:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Worked for me, try it again. [[User:Tyrannis|Тy]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Tyrannis|{{User:Tyrannis/quotes|}}]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:10, 14 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Yes it is working for me now too. Must be a gremlin infestation. --[[User:Maratrean|Maratrean]] ([[User talk:Maratrean|talk]]) 07:49, 15 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 500 error ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aww, I liked that...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, it still does come up with the error from time to time, though not as much as it was in the runup to the botserver crashing last year. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|''Monomorium antarcticum'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 02:34, 4 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:GODDAMNMOTHERFUCKINGPIECEOFSHITINFERNALHELLBLASTEDLAMEASS500INTERNALSERVERERRORSAREBACKGODDAMN [[user:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Тy&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tyrannis|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:green&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Ahoy!&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:52, 6 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::ROFLYSST.[[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 11:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== So what the hell happened? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Huh? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 13:57, 23 November 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You'd been there, right? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|95px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|17px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 14:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== who the fuck shut down my wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
i want answers and i want them now [[User talk:Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#ff0000&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Time&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Word&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Bastard&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Harmonic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Stupid&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Educated&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Wisest&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Cubic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Evil&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Mindless&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] [[Special:Contributions/Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=#000000&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;time&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;word&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;bastard&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;harmonic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;stupid&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;educated&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;wisest&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;cubic&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;evil&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;drug&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] [[User:Phantom Hoover|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000ff&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;choose&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=10&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=2&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;option weight=2&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font face=&amp;quot;Times&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Phantom Hoover&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/option&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/choose&amp;gt;!&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:No-one &amp;quot;shut it down&amp;quot;. No-one was willing to keep paying the money to keep it open, and hence it died of natural causes. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:49, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That's rather wishful analysis when the [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page main page] banner states &amp;quot;RationalWikiWiki's owner, Punky McPunkerson, has decided to '''shut this site down''''.&amp;quot;  He discussed the decision in the same terms in various places ([http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#So_what_the_fuck_was_the_point_of_deleting_this_stuff.3F main page talk], [http://rationalwikiwiki.org/wiki/RationalWikiWiki:Treehouse#Announcement treehouse]) without taking on board others' opinions about the shut-down or discussing alternative funding. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 07:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::How much traffic could it have gotten? It couldn't have costed much to host. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 15:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::It cost me $10/month on average to host it. If Hoover wants it, and all the stupid bullshit drama that comes with being owner, he can have it. Just let me know! [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:59, 2 May 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:JohnP.BushIII</id>
		<title>User talk:JohnP.BushIII</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:JohnP.BushIII"/>
				<updated>2013-04-29T09:24:11Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Created page with &amp;quot;{{welcome}} Hey buddy, welcome to RationalWiki. Pull up a goat and enjoy your stay. ~~~~&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{welcome}}&lt;br /&gt;
Hey buddy, welcome to RationalWiki. Pull up a goat and enjoy your stay. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:24, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-04-29T09:16:43Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Template:Talkpage/PibotHidden&lt;br /&gt;
|search = yes&lt;br /&gt;
|maxarchivesize = 150K&lt;br /&gt;
|counter = 199&lt;br /&gt;
|algo = old(48h)&lt;br /&gt;
|archive = RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive%(counter)d&lt;br /&gt;
}}{{Bartop}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__[[Category:RationalWiki|{{PAGENAME}}]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Needs Goat]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-04-19 at 10.51.29 AM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 4/19/13: '''3567'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Reddit crosses the line ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/ If he died after the bombings, someone's got a bit of explaining to do.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's crossed that line many times, I sinserly doubt this will change any status quos at Reddit, or any other mass internet board site. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If certain parts of Sa is meant to be believed, im already expected to believe that they crossed the line because of various subreddits. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 20:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::4Chan scoffs at your antiquated notions of accountability and morality.--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 01:54, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::&amp;quot;crosses the line&amp;quot; is a hell of an understatement. This borders on murder charges--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 15:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Psychopathetic rubbish ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/empathy/&lt;br /&gt;
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More pseudoscience promoted by the esteemed 'skeptic' Steven Novella. Claiming that psychopaths can be identified by fMRI scans. Nonsense. Robert Hare's checklist is pure subjectivity and anyone who has read Without Conscience or even Snakes in Suits with a critical eye can see the joke. 20-30% of USA prisoners are psychopaths? Are poor blacks demonised with a hardwired brain disfunction? Are Taureans stubborn by birth? What claptrap! Stanley Milgram and Phil Zimbardo clearly show what it takes for humans to perform evil acts. I still do not understand how Dr. Novella can still be seen as a leading rational skeptic. &lt;br /&gt;
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This is dangerous stuff he is promoting. A short while ago I was in contact with some prisoners in the UK. Based on the Hare checklist carried out by young trainee psychiatrists, certain people were denied rehabilitation courses and also parole based on the fact that their brains were 'different' and therefore not responsive to change. Wow! I prefer Jon Ronson's work in his book.... &lt;br /&gt;
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Steven Novella - dick. [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:For once I agree with you. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 07:45, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::More than once methinks... [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::An important aside is that the level of evidence supporting custodial rehabilitation programs is very low. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 14:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The evidence is actually the prison can cause psychopathology. And the only reason I wont say we can identify psychopaths by MRI/fMRI is because there has been very little research into personality disorders. Frankly, with the low amount of research into personality disorders, you can make damn near any claim and be within the bounds of the current research.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 15:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Yes and of course Dr. Novella laps up the neurobabble. At least Neuroskeptic is more circumspect.  http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/04/27/the-sigh-psychopath-brain/#.UX1whsq1VwQ . Am I the only Szaszian in the village? [[Special:Contributions/81.101.244.221|81.101.244.221]] ([[User talk:81.101.244.221|talk]]) 18:58, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Yes Dirk, you are the only idiot here.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 19:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: ;-) Maybe you could at least read one book. I suggest Szasz's Manufacture of Madness. Published in 1970, he was the first major psychiatrist to state that homosexuality was not a mental disease but a medicalized deviant behaviour disapproved of by societies 'norms'. In 1973 it was only just voted out of the DSM although Ego-dystonic sexual orientation was to remain for a futher 10 years. Conversion therapy is still practised by the psychics. [[Special:Contributions/81.101.244.221|81.101.244.221]] ([[User talk:81.101.244.221|talk]]) 19:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Shut up troll--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 00:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Real conspiracies are eventually leaked? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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There seems to be a rule of thumb here and elsewhere that if a conspiracy is indeed real, eventually someone involved will blow the whistle.&lt;br /&gt;
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My question is, how do we know that? Has there been cases where someone had enough guts to warn someone?--[[User:DoomTay|DoomTay]] ([[User talk:DoomTay|talk]]) 15:19, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Watergate is a classic. [[User:Innocent Bystander|Innocent Bystander]] ([[User talk:Innocent Bystander|talk]]) 15:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think the idea is more that the more people in on a conspiracy, over time, someone will eventually spill the beans, either intentionally or accidentally. &lt;br /&gt;
:: Consider the moon landing hoax claims -- at this point, it requires thousands of people to have kept a secret for over four decades. No one has talked (not even a deathbed confession), no one has let the truth slip, etc etc etc. It's completely improbably that could have gone on for so long. [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The [[toupée fallacy]] applies: if a conspiracy operation was carried out cleverly &amp;amp; covertly enough, leaving no trace of evidence, we simply wouldn't know about it; so not knowing of any successful secret conspiracies isn't proof that there haven't been any.  On the other hand, [[Occam's Razor]] also applies, and for theories like a hoax moon landing (as MDB said), 9/11 carried out as a false flag op by the US government, the Boston bombings being staged, etc., the resources involved in such operations and numbers of people who would need to be maintaining secrecy simply don't compute.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 18:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Yeah, small conspiracies probably do routinely go undetected. If you stole a cookie from the kitchen, swore your siblings to secrecy and then all forgot about it, congratulations you were part of a successful and undetected conspiracy. The objection to conspiracies going undetected for a prolonged time is usually raised in the context of the ''Grand'' conspiracy, a type of theory in which believers say that large (sometimes practically unbounded) groups of people are in on the conspiracy. This is the type of theory where e.g. an independent committee investigates, finds nothing and the believers respond &amp;quot;Of course they'd say that, they're in on it&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::::In terms of big secrets kept by fair-sized groups for a long period, the relatively modern example I always go to is Ultra. People kept that secret for about a decade, long after it served any direct purpose. They were (mostly indirectly, through reading and signing the Official Secrets Act) threatened with prison or perhaps death if they revealed the secret, but on the other hand for much of the time the war was over and they must have at least suspected that the full weight of their burden was no longer present. So that gives us an idea of what a medium-sized organised government conspiracy could be capable of. Manhattan was equally secret but by its nature the secret could not outlast the war. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 21:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::There's a bit of a difference here because you are talking about secret operations, something that was regarded as a national secret for external security reasons; so that the enemy would not be made aware of it. Conspiracies are normally about deceiving the domestic population. People are less inclined to stay quiet when it's their fellow citizens who are being deceived rather than an enemy being informed. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 21:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Combine that that those types of military ops have only single digit numbers of people in on it, and quite often still end up blown (IE, see the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand or the Russian killing of a Chechnya leader in Qatar. ) --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 00:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Genghis's point is well made but there's a subtlety here. Everybody is trying to be good, but their local definition of good varies. That's how the real world works, and it's even how you get character tension in fiction if you're not willing to resort to one dimensional &amp;quot;grr, I'm evil, I hate all goodness&amp;quot; caricatures for major characters. ''Rebecca'' for example is on one level the story of a man who has murdered his wife, and then conspired with his new wife to destroy evidence and pervert the course of justice. And the reader is fully intended to sympathise with them. You are not expected to get towards the end of the novel and think &amp;quot;Oh, lass, you should go confess everything to the police&amp;quot;. At another scale, check ''Watchmen'' particularly the comic book but the movie to some extent too. Do you agree with Rorschach that it's always better to die telling the truth, no matter the consequences?&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::SF authors have come up with several things that are easily bad enough to make a mass conspiracy to protect the public look quite sane. Basilisk images are an example, mere pictures that kill by doing something to your mind when you see them. If they are possible the knowledge of how to make such an image would have to be suppressed because otherwise one loose crazy could kill millions by e.g. showing the picture on live television. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 08:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::What the hell are you talking about? {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 11:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::Sorry, rambling a bit. Basically I was trying to motivate the possibility that people who were conspirators might feel justified, even heroic for deceiving their fellow citizens because it's &amp;quot;for the best&amp;quot; in their opinion in contrast to Genghis Khant's idea that secrecy would be preserved for national secrecy but not for a conspiracy against one's fellow citizens. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 12:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::Secrets kept for the purpose of protecting the public from possible harm aren't really all that different from secrets kept for purposes of national defence.  But that doesn't really apply to most of the standard stuff proposed by conspiracy theorists (moon hoax, 9/11 hoax, Sandy Hook hoax, etc.) which involves a mass delusion carried out to advance an agenda. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 13:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::::Conspiracy theorists don't really see that distinction, though. And on one level I'm inclined to agree with that. &amp;quot;National security&amp;quot; is still an agenda - in the same way that &amp;quot;securing the NWO&amp;quot; is an agenda - and keeping official secrets advances it appropriately. The point being that should any of these conspiracy theories be ''true'', then their nature is ''exactly the same'' as ones that have been held secret in the past because of reasons X, Y and Z. People involved would have the same opinion. The difference is that a moon landing hoax would simply have to be ''too damn big'' for this to happen. You wouldn't get enough people on side to pull it off. It's a raw logistical problem more than being qualitatively different. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''d hominem''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 01:37, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
{{undent}}It is probably true that, as above, minor conspiracies often go undetected. However, especially in modern times, conspiracies of substantial size tend to leave paper trails. Even if the conspiracy is not exposed as it's happening, it can still be uncovered after the fact. Take, for example, {{w|COINTELPRO}} or the {{w|Moscow Show Trials}}. [[User:Nebuchadnezzar|Nebuchadnezzar]] ([[User talk:Nebuchadnezzar|talk]]) 02:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that at any level, this is going to be subject to the toupee fallacy, and so you can't really make the conclusion.  For all we know, the vast majority of conspiracies could be successfully hidden.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 04:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Water Fluoridation ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My home town is debating water fluoridation, and the Occupy! (remember that?) facebook page for it is full what I get the impression is largely pseudoscience. I was wondering what Rwikians thoughts on it were. From the studies I've seen-and I'm not a trained scientist or anything- it seems as though there isn't a risk for any negative consequences as long as fluoride levels are below a certain concentration. Further, I got the impression that discoloration of the teeth was the biggest risk, but that at higher concentrations there are some serious consequences. If you're interested in madness, [https://www.facebook.com/groups/occupypdx/?hc_location=stream here's the link]. [[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Fluoridation|We have an article, you know]]--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 16:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yeah, I know. I was looking for thoughts.[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:58, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
===Who are the brain police?===&lt;br /&gt;
::: Don't ya know? Thoughts are banned from here. (unless they accord with a pre 'determined' agenda) --[[Special:Contributions/81.101.244.221|81.101.244.221]] ([[User talk:81.101.244.221|talk]]) 17:21, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{DFTT}}--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:00, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[File:Fish.jpg|40px]] - And a RobFish as well--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 21:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Excuse me? --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 23:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::My thoughts exactly, Peasant--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 23:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Are_the_Brain_Police%3F Frank Zappa's Freak Out] is one of the greatest albums of all time. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Blog broken, should be back within 24 hours ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The blog is completely broken. The DNS is being repointed as we speak, we should have a slightly working blog some time tomorrow living on the RWF server - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 00:25, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:OK, ''now'' it's repointed. Now we just have to convince Apache to stop being a dick - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 17:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Please stop being racist against Native Americans. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell.]] 17:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::But the RWF employed it specifically to come over here and steal our Jobs! - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 17:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Currently waiting on Trent - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 08:23, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Blog back for at least some people! (If your DNS resolves.) Currently working only straight off the main Apache server, I'll see about kicking the squids/load balancer into shape - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 06:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Religion vs depression ==&lt;br /&gt;
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(from Slashdot) Study [http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/04/26/belief-in-god-improves-mental-health-outcomes/54121.html] indicating that people who believe in God get better outcomes in therapy for depression. I'll wager some of the more out-of-it religious types will make claims about this that go far beyond what the study actually shows. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 03:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:This is old news, and has been pretty well known for years. The thing is though, this isn't the whole story. The whole story is that people who have deep family connections, are heavily involved in social or political groups, '''or''' are religious have lower levels of depression. The reason, according to mental health professionals, is that being involved in a movement bigger than yourself reduces the sociocultural factors that cause depression.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 15:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::My own (recent) decision to engage with religion has helped my depression/anxiety immensely, both for the more quotidian reasons that Hamilton mentions (my church is involved with some progressive politics that fit me like a glove and I'm on a couple of social action committees, and the church jazz band now has a fantastic guitar player), but also because it gives me a language and a forum to explore some of the more esoteric and existential issues, which is theraputic on its own. Your mileage may vary. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell.]] 16:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I.e., it comforts you. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 22:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The number one cause of depression is loneliness (...in my eminently unqualified opinion). As someone raised in a fundamentalist faith, the departure from the communities you belonged to can be a very lonely experience. Becoming a part of a community - any community - is essential for mental health. My own road to rehabilitation was through a motorcycle social club. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 00:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anybody know anything about this publication? Backstory: I was up late with flu bug watching infomercials to fall asleep. One I came across was a &amp;quot;memory enhancer&amp;quot; called [http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/brain-power-pills-raise-patients-hopes-physicians-worries/1097138 Procera]. Naturally, being a member of RW, I was skeptical of many of the claims made on the infomercial (i.e: another miracle pill for memory-loss) but the one that stuck out most was the claim that it had been scientifically researched and that a double-blind, peer-reviewed scientific study had been published in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association, for which they then show a logo similar to that of the more well-known Journal of the American Medical Association. Basically, a bait-and-switch eye trick. But I thought I'd poke the community here and see if anybody knew anything about it. Is it a legitimate publication or another crank journal? [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You can find [http://www.ana-jana.org/jana_archive.cfm back-issues] on their website. But given that there is no legal definition of the term Nutraceutical in the US,  you can well imagine that it's a bunch of unsubstantiated puff for the supplement industry. Even their [http://www.ana-jana.org/pop_faq.cfm?FaqID=6 Professional Membersgip FAQ] reads like Krej's RationalWiki Wonder Diet, with lots of mentions of  &amp;quot;$xx.xx value&amp;quot;.  {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 08:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Some legit research groups are in the journal. Some of the research may even be worth paying attention to. But on look-and-feel of the website, journal layout and the general quality of the writing, abstract information and referencing they demand, it doesn't look like the greatest quality journal in the world (contrast with [http://pubs.acs.org/journal/jacsat ''JACS''] if you like). As always, if someone claims that the study is backed up and published there, I'd just read it and see what it says (or ''doesn't'' say, as Ben Goldacre repeatedly points out) and go from there but anything being sold by a late-night infomercial is probably being sold by a late-night infomercial ''for a reason''. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 01:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I didn't figure that it was a very reputable journal. Like I said, the journal looks like a rip-off of JAMA. I was just trying to prod what people here had heard so I could have some material to start an article about it with. Nonetheless, thanks for the feedback. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Science articles and angry BoNs ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Should we, like, do something about that?  The Khazar myth article, for example, seems to be out of date, and a very determined BoN badly wants us to change it.  The abiotic oil article is supposedly inaccurate, and a good number of anonymous editors have raised complaints about it.  The problem is, most users here either don't have the personal knowledge or the patience to review BoN claims and deal with them (either by integrating them into the article or telling the BoN to STFU).  Or at least, I don't, and people aren't stepping in.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 04:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:That's one of the problems with a small editor-base. It only takes one editor to slant an article in a particular way and then BoNs or new editors find it hard to correct because there is a general assumption that either it's right because many people have edited it, or it's right because it's been like that a long time.  If nobody else is knowledgable enough to engage with a new editor then proposed changes need to be enumerated on the talk page and references given. It's usually not too difficult to distinguish between good sources and woo-mongers or cranks. You can also check what the other wiki says. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 08:21, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The points raised on the Khazar article are valid, but the evidence is pretty new. It doesn't yet have full traction in the world. But if it ''did'', then at best it would render the article deletion-worthy because it would cease to be particularly interesting (IMHO). Abiotic oil is both silly and full of competing hypotheses. It would be impossible to make that fully comprehensive and refute the entire Gish Gallop of ideas. The general outline given in the article isn't necessary ''wrong'', it's just not representative of every proposal - what they're asking is the equivalent of writing an entire article disproving God and then write the article again disproving God-that-wears-blue-socks, and ''then'' the entire article yet again on God-that-wears-red-socks.&lt;br /&gt;
::The procedure to bash things out on the talk page is okay. That's what happens anyway and it works 95% of the time (it really does). The trouble is twofold: a) there is a general mistrust of BoNs and a trigger-happy revert attitude comes with it and b) BoNs on occasion come in and act like idiots. That latter one has been evident in some cases where they, frankly, make a completely ''shit'' case and mouth off exactly like cranks - even when they are, on consideration of the evidence, actually in the right. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 01:18, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cracked's The 5 Creepiest Smear Campaigns Launched by Powerful Groups ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.cracked.com/article_20415_the-5-creepiest-smear-campaigns-launched-by-powerful-groups.html&lt;br /&gt;
Unsurprisingly, Edison is involved.[[User:Ryantherebel|Ryantherebel]] ([[User talk:Ryantherebel|talk]]) 13:33, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Unsurprised by #1 either.  But Nader, you're so dirty... [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 13:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The one involving prostitutes was really weird.  Hopefully this isn't some sort of [[Pommer's law]], because it's hard to imagine anyone seriously coming up with that.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 00:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cameron, get a grip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/28/tory-response-ukip-local-elections The UKIP threat looks serious.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:47, 28 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bigotry wiki ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've been working on it with another user here, and we're starting to get some articles done.  He suggested that we should see if we can get anyone else interested in collaborating.  We're also working on refocusing some of our articles, which are a bit low brow about making fun of racists.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*http://bigotry.sashaweb.net&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 00:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Are you Proxima's long lost cousin?  This is the second fork attempt in a few months. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What do you mean &amp;quot;fork attempt?&amp;quot;  Did someone attempt to for the wiki?  I copied a few articles under the CC, but not most of them.  The focus is different.  Anyway, Arcane suggested I should see if anyone else here is interested.  Maybe I could mention it on a category or portal page here?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 02:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Rationalwiki has a lot of problems, so people trying to spin something more productive off isn't that surprising. And I remember Inquisitor talking about making a wiki that would be somewhere between us and Citizendium, like 6 months go.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 02:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Bigotry Wiki isn't intended to be a replacement, since it has a different focus and topic.  We could possibly even link to articles here for more information that isn't on mission for us.  The replacement wiki for Citizendium I was talking about would be a history wiki that restricts editing of the article namespace to authorized editors, and would incorporate a draft namespace editable to anyone.  The goal would be to form a much more open wiki and better system of peer review than Citizendium.  Plus wikis can never be considered reliable sources if the article is editable to anyone.  This way people can make any edit they want to a draft, and trusted users can make the decision to add the contribution to the article.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 02:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::you tried advertising your latest wiki a few months ago and got one person, what did you expect this time, us to up and realize how stupid we were before?--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 02:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::He specifically suggested that I check and see now that we're getting started.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] 02:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::&amp;quot;Now that we've gotten started&amp;quot;. No, you haven't. I looked at RC and saw nothing of note within a glance, and even then 2 people is not a wiki. And why do we need a bigotry wiki?  --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 02:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::Alright children, go to your rooms, and if you complain, then you don't get any dinner.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 02:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::I've developed a solution to this problem.  I added it to my watchlist.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/Mikal's ragebox|Mikal's ragebox]]) 04:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::thats adorable and doesnt solve my issue with you: link spamming your many offshot wikis--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 05:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just took a look around.  Several comments:&lt;br /&gt;
* The search function doesn't work, &amp;amp; portals/categories are lacking, making it hard to find content without going to the [http://bigotry.sashaweb.net/Special:AllPages list of all pages.]&lt;br /&gt;
* When you copy RW content, you need to attribute it, under the terms of the Creative Commons licence (see [[RationalWiki:Copyrights]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* If you want to be taken seriously as anti-bigotry, you could try not using the word &amp;quot;retarded&amp;quot; quite so often.&lt;br /&gt;
* You might also want to reconsider claims that [http://bigotry.sashaweb.net/Racialoid racists are sub-human and unevolved,] [http://bigotry.sashaweb.net/Nazis gay,] and motivated by [http://bigotry.sashaweb.net/Penis_envy &amp;quot;penis envy&amp;quot;.]&lt;br /&gt;
{{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: *jaw drops* I guess we should take it as just another example of nominative determinism.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks.  I should already have attribution on pages that were copied.  I realize that calling racists gay and retarded has been over done, and conflicts with the concept of an anti bigotry wiki.  We're going to work to scale those back.  As for articles like ''Racialoid,'' I added a humor template that should be used to indicate that the page is intended for humor and not to be serious.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/Mikal's ragebox|Mikal's ragebox]]) 07:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The site has already been blocked by the network filter at my work. That was quick. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::For being vulgar?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Contribs]] | [[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein/Mikal's ragebox|Mikal's ragebox]]) 07:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-04-27T07:23:26Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? */&lt;/p&gt;
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[[Category:Needs Goat]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-04-19 at 10.51.29 AM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 4/19/13: '''3567'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Duration of flu-like illnesses ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, I've been seeing some anecdotes about people whose cold/flu symptoms disappeared after one day, either with or without CAM treatment. What explanation could there be?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds like [http://coldflu.about.com/od/flu/a/What-Is-The-24-Hour-Flu.htm the 24 hour virus], which is actually just the stomach &amp;quot;flu&amp;quot;, and usually doesn't require treatment. If the symptoms fade quickly, it's probably because those afflicted stayed hydrated and well-rested, so their natural immune system would fight the virus. [[User:Equivamp|Equivamp]] - &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Equivamp|talk]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I've heard those stories too. The next day at work the flu is gone, and inexplicably they have a hangover. --{{User:JeevesMkII/sig/sig1}} 19:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;Symptoms can also include [http://www.catalogs.com/info/health/stomach-flu-symptoms.html sore throat and nasal congestion].&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; Perfect. Thanks so much.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:20, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wait, [http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/communicable/diseases/norovirus.aspx no it doesn't.] I read an anecdote on Yahoo Answers about a flu/cold/omgwtfbbq disappearing in 48 hours, and the person had a sore throat. Hmm....--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:26, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The main reason for short-term flu viruses is that the active virus is closely related to one your immune system already knows. Two people can have very different reactions to the same virus due to having different adaptive histories. However people who live in the same area tend to have similar immuno-adaptive profiles, so a given virus might have a brief, minor impact in one part of the country, yet be highly disruptive in another. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 01:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ah, yes, also, some people (Harriet Hall is one of them) apparently never get coolds or flus. The conflicting information I've read suggests that it is due to weak immune systems or strong immune systems.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 14:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Humans in the Americas -- Well, how did we get here? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm reading a general history of Barbados which starts at the VERY beginning. The author mentions that new (at the time of writing) research indicates that instead of crossing over the Bering Strait some 25,000 years ago, humans might have existed in the Americas far earlier--he mentions, but does not cite, archaeological evidence from South America. He also mentions, but does not cite, the idea that humans may have come here from what is now Africa before continental drift put the Atlantic ocean between the Americas and Africa. I call bullshit on the second, but wonder about the first. Anyone got an informed opinion? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 01:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:That second one is complete horseshit. Humans as we know didn't appear until long after South America and Africa were long apart. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 01:27, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It used to be accepted that the Clovis people (appeared ~13,000 years ago) were the first, but a [http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-migration-coming-to-america-1.10562 hard-fought paradigm shift] has lead to the acceptance of earlier archaeological sites. Even 25,000 years, however, still seems much too early&amp;amp;mdash;what evidence does he claim? [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
	&lt;br /&gt;
::{{ec}}I don't think the first one is true either. It seems the earliest dated sites in Barbados don't go back further than 2000 BC. Besides, that he's making outlandish claims without even trying to back them up should indicate the author's credibility.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 01:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::@ Brxbrx -- he's not claiming people were in Barbados any earlier, he's talking about humans in the Americas more generally. The guy is also one of the world's most respected scholars in the field of Anglophone Caribbean history, and on topics from English settlement on, I would have no problem with anything he says. I think what  has happened here is that in the interest of being complete, he did some sloppy work on stuff that is ultimately completely tangential to what the book is really about. @ Revolver -- it's a popular text, not an academic one, and citations are scanty: he does not cite anything more than &amp;quot;archaeological finds.&amp;quot; [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 02:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You could give us a name, not just for the author but for the book in question--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:11, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::[http://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/principal/biography.asp The Author]. The book is the 2006 Second Edition of 'The History of Barbados''. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 02:14, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::(EC)The oldest site talked about on Wikipedia is [[wp:Pedra Furada sites|Pedra Furada]], which does go back significantly beyond 25,000 years (though this is disputed). The find is hardly &amp;quot;recent,&amp;quot; however.[[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 02:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I recall back in 2005, there was program entitled ''[http://www.telefilm.ca/en/catalogues/production/first-canadians The First Canadians]''. The theory is that during the last ice age, some people crossed the Atlantic on ice flows which is why several Northeastern aboriginal tribes have European DNA.--[[User:Cms13ca|Cms13ca]] ([[User talk:Cms13ca|talk]]) 02:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That seems hard to believe for me. An open ice flow doesn't seem like it would do well for keeping a group of migrating people safe from the elements and fed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 02:26, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems unlikely that humans would have traveled on ice floes as they would be unpredictable and probably not going in the right direction anyway, but during the last glacial maximum 18,000 years ago the ice sheet would have enabled intrepid explorers to walk across. The question is whether they were sufficiently advanced to accomplish this. One would expect that they would need to be at a similar level of technical development as the northern native Americans were say 500 years ago. Land bridges are a much more plausible explanation and for that you need to look to Asia. European DNA is much more likely to have arrived with the Vikings. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 06:47, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Reddit crosses the line ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/ If he died after the bombings, someone's got a bit of explaining to do.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's crossed that line many times, I sinserly doubt this will change any status quos at Reddit, or any other mass internet board site. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If certain parts of Sa is meant to be believed, im already expected to believe that they crossed the line because of various subreddits. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 20:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::4Chan scoffs at your antiquated notions of accountability and morality.--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 01:54, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Finally got around to watching last night's Daily Show today ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Goddamn did Jon nail it last night. For those of you who missed it (or some of you might have CC online blocked in your country): [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-FbDzAHSs Here it is]. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 22:35, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I find &amp;quot;last nights Daily Show today&amp;quot; to be a very confusing set of words. I had to count on my fingers. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 01:17, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What was that, 6 amendments violated?  The reaction from the anchors with law degrees (ie. [[Megyn Kelly|Mrs. Essentially]]) made the video though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 02:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yeah, I half expected one of them to say something along the lines of &amp;quot;Fuck no, are you crazy?&amp;quot; [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 02:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And this is why I say that &amp;quot;Fox News&amp;quot; is an oxymoron in terms, and it scares me that about half the US believes some of that shit. Why is it that I always seem alone on these issues. At least Jon Stewart has my back. Woots! (PS: Jon Stewart was wrong when he implied a false meaning of &amp;quot;well-regulated militia&amp;quot;, but the rest is great!) [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 04:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Creative Commons ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ironic, yes, but is there any photo on the Internet of [[Ayn Rand]] that we can put in her article without violating copyright? [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ayn_Rand_Portrait.png]?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 06:31, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Psychopathetic rubbish ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/empathy/&lt;br /&gt;
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More pseudoscience promoted by the esteemed 'skeptic' Steven Novella. Claiming that psychopaths can be identified by fMRI scans. Nonsense. Robert Hare's checklist is pure subjectivity and anyone who has read Without Conscience or even Snakes in Suits with a critical eye can see the joke. 20-30% of USA prisoners are psychopaths? Are poor blacks demonised with a hardwired brain disfunction? Are Taureans stubborn by birth? What claptrap! Stanley Milgram and Phil Zimbardo clearly show what it takes for humans to perform evil acts. I still do not understand how Dr. Novella can still be seen as a leading rational skeptic. &lt;br /&gt;
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This is dangerous stuff he is promoting. A short while ago I was in contact with some prisoners in the UK. Based on the Hare checklist carried out by young trainee psychiatrists, certain people were denied rehabilitation courses and also parole based on the fact that their brains were 'different' and therefore not responsive to change. Wow! I prefer Jon Ronson's work in his book.... &lt;br /&gt;
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Steven Novella - dick. [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:For once I agree with you. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 07:45, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::More than once methinks... [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::An important aside is that the level of evidence supporting custodial rehabilitation programs is very low. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 14:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Real conspiracies are eventually leaked? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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There seems to be a rule of thumb here and elsewhere that if a conspiracy is indeed real, eventually someone involved will blow the whistle.&lt;br /&gt;
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My question is, how do we know that? Has there been cases where someone had enough guts to warn someone?--[[User:DoomTay|DoomTay]] ([[User talk:DoomTay|talk]]) 15:19, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Watergate is a classic. [[User:Innocent Bystander|Innocent Bystander]] ([[User talk:Innocent Bystander|talk]]) 15:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think the idea is more that the more people in on a conspiracy, over time, someone will eventually spill the beans, either intentionally or accidentally. &lt;br /&gt;
:: Consider the moon landing hoax claims -- at this point, it requires thousands of people to have kept a secret for over four decades. No one has talked (not even a deathbed confession), no one has let the truth slip, etc etc etc. It's completely improbably that could have gone on for so long. [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The [[toupée fallacy]] applies: if a conspiracy operation was carried out cleverly &amp;amp; covertly enough, leaving no trace of evidence, we simply wouldn't know about it; so not knowing of any successful secret conspiracies isn't proof that there haven't been any.  On the other hand, [[Occam's Razor]] also applies, and for theories like a hoax moon landing (as MDB said), 9/11 carried out as a false flag op by the US government, the Boston bombings being staged, etc., the resources involved in such operations and numbers of people who would need to be maintaining secrecy simply don't compute.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 18:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Yeah, small conspiracies probably do routinely go undetected. If you stole a cookie from the kitchen, swore your siblings to secrecy and then all forgot about it, congratulations you were part of a successful and undetected conspiracy. The objection to conspiracies going undetected for a prolonged time is usually raised in the context of the ''Grand'' conspiracy, a type of theory in which believers say that large (sometimes practically unbounded) groups of people are in on the conspiracy. This is the type of theory where e.g. an independent committee investigates, finds nothing and the believers respond &amp;quot;Of course they'd say that, they're in on it&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::::In terms of big secrets kept by fair-sized groups for a long period, the relatively modern example I always go to is Ultra. People kept that secret for about a decade, long after it served any direct purpose. They were (mostly indirectly, through reading and signing the Official Secrets Act) threatened with prison or perhaps death if they revealed the secret, but on the other hand for much of the time the war was over and they must have at least suspected that the full weight of their burden was no longer present. So that gives us an idea of what a medium-sized organised government conspiracy could be capable of. Manhattan was equally secret but by its nature the secret could not outlast the war. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 21:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::There's a bit of a difference here because you are talking about secret operations, something that was regarded as a national secret for external security reasons; so that the enemy would not be made aware of it. Conspiracies are normally about deceiving the domestic population. People are less inclined to stay quiet when it's their fellow citizens s who are being deceived rather than an enemy being informed. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 21:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Combine that that those types of military ops have only single digit numbers of people in on it, and quite often still end up blown (IE, see the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand or the Russian killing of a Chechnya leader in Qatar. ) --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 00:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Water Fluoridation ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My home town is debating water fluoridation, and the Occupy! (remember that?) facebook page for it is full what I get the impression is largely pseudoscience. I was wondering what Rwikians thoughts on it were. From the studies I've seen-and I'm not a trained scientist or anything- it seems as though there isn't a risk for any negative consequences as long as fluoride levels are below a certain concentration. Further, I got the impression that discoloration of the teeth was the biggest risk, but that at higher concentrations there are some serious consequences. If you're interested in madness, [https://www.facebook.com/groups/occupypdx/?hc_location=stream here's the link]. [[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Fluoridation|We have an article, you know]]--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 16:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yeah, I know. I was looking for thoughts.[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:58, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
===Who are the brain police?===&lt;br /&gt;
::: Don't ya know? Thoughts are banned from here. (unless they accord with a pre 'determined' agenda) --[[Special:Contributions/81.101.244.221|81.101.244.221]] ([[User talk:81.101.244.221|talk]]) 17:21, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{DFTT}}--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:00, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[File:Fish.jpg|40px]] - And a RobFish as well--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 21:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Excuse me? --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 23:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::My thoughts exactly, Peasant--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 23:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Captcha Issues ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok, I'm new here and haven't edited much of anything, but I'm having serious problems with the Captcha system and couldn't find a solution anywhere, though it is certainly possible I just missed it in the massive amount of information on this site. I apologize in advance if that is the case. Anyway, I understand the purpose of Captcha, why it's necessary and all that so please don't take this as a &amp;quot;Captcha is stupid and you should get rid of it&amp;quot; post either. Anyway, I'm running Win7 and have tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox and no matter what it takes me at least 2-3 tries (often typing the same answer for the same question) to get through Captcha and post anything. I had this same problem at AW, so maybe it's just a issue with my system, but I don't know. If anyone has any advice, great; if not, it's just an annoyance and not an actual problem so I'll just deal with it until I get promoted. Thanks, [[User:Pdoke2|Pdoke2]] ([[User talk:Pdoke2|talk]]) 18:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I think it's temporary. I'm not really new but not exactly a frequent user either. As I recall, it's on for a certain period of time after you first create your profile.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 23:20, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, it is temporary for new accounts.  Also, Pdoke2 was made 'autopatrolled' earlier, which should mean it doesn't happen again anyway. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your responses and Thank you to whoever made me 'autopatrolled' so quickly after I posted my problem here. You guys are great. [[User:Pdoke2|Pdoke2]] ([[User talk:Pdoke2|talk]]) 03:03, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Blog broken, should be back within 24 hours ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The blog is completely broken. The DNS is being repointed as we speak, we should have a slightly working blog some time tomorrow living on the RWF server - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 00:25, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Religion vs depression ==&lt;br /&gt;
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(from Slashdot) Study [http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/04/26/belief-in-god-improves-mental-health-outcomes/54121.html] indicating that people who believe in God get better outcomes in therapy for depression. I'll wager some of the more out-of-it religious types will make claims about this that go far beyond what the study actually shows. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 03:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anybody know anything about this publication? Backstory: I was up late with flu bug watching infomercials to fall asleep. One I came across was a &amp;quot;memory enhancer&amp;quot; called [http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/brain-power-pills-raise-patients-hopes-physicians-worries/1097138 Procera]. Naturally, being a member of RW, I was skeptical of many of the claims made on the infomercial (i.e: another miracle pill for memory-loss) but the one that stuck out most was the claim that it had been scientifically researched and that a double-blind, peer-reviewed scientific study had been published in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association, for which they then show a logo similar to that of the more well-known Journal of the American Medical Association. Basically, a bait-and-switch eye trick. But I thought I'd poke the community here and see if anybody knew anything about it. Is it a legitimate publication or another crank journal? [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

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		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
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		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead links wiki project Screen Shot 2013-04-19 at 10.51.29 AM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 4/19/13: '''3567'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Duration of flu-like illnesses ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So, I've been seeing some anecdotes about people whose cold/flu symptoms disappeared after one day, either with or without CAM treatment. What explanation could there be?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds like [http://coldflu.about.com/od/flu/a/What-Is-The-24-Hour-Flu.htm the 24 hour virus], which is actually just the stomach &amp;quot;flu&amp;quot;, and usually doesn't require treatment. If the symptoms fade quickly, it's probably because those afflicted stayed hydrated and well-rested, so their natural immune system would fight the virus. [[User:Equivamp|Equivamp]] - &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Equivamp|talk]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 18:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I've heard those stories too. The next day at work the flu is gone, and inexplicably they have a hangover. --{{User:JeevesMkII/sig/sig1}} 19:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;Symptoms can also include [http://www.catalogs.com/info/health/stomach-flu-symptoms.html sore throat and nasal congestion].&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; Perfect. Thanks so much.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:20, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Wait, [http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/communicable/diseases/norovirus.aspx no it doesn't.] I read an anecdote on Yahoo Answers about a flu/cold/omgwtfbbq disappearing in 48 hours, and the person had a sore throat. Hmm....--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 22:26, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The main reason for short-term flu viruses is that the active virus is closely related to one your immune system already knows. Two people can have very different reactions to the same virus due to having different adaptive histories. However people who live in the same area tend to have similar immuno-adaptive profiles, so a given virus might have a brief, minor impact in one part of the country, yet be highly disruptive in another. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 01:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ah, yes, also, some people (Harriet Hall is one of them) apparently never get coolds or flus. The conflicting information I've read suggests that it is due to weak immune systems or strong immune systems.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 14:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Humans in the Americas -- Well, how did we get here? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm reading a general history of Barbados which starts at the VERY beginning. The author mentions that new (at the time of writing) research indicates that instead of crossing over the Bering Strait some 25,000 years ago, humans might have existed in the Americas far earlier--he mentions, but does not cite, archaeological evidence from South America. He also mentions, but does not cite, the idea that humans may have come here from what is now Africa before continental drift put the Atlantic ocean between the Americas and Africa. I call bullshit on the second, but wonder about the first. Anyone got an informed opinion? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 01:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:That second one is complete horseshit. Humans as we know didn't appear until long after South America and Africa were long apart. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 01:27, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It used to be accepted that the Clovis people (appeared ~13,000 years ago) were the first, but a [http://www.nature.com/news/ancient-migration-coming-to-america-1.10562 hard-fought paradigm shift] has lead to the acceptance of earlier archaeological sites. Even 25,000 years, however, still seems much too early&amp;amp;mdash;what evidence does he claim? [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::{{ec}}I don't think the first one is true either. It seems the earliest dated sites in Barbados don't go back further than 2000 BC. Besides, that he's making outlandish claims without even trying to back them up should indicate the author's credibility.--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 01:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::@ Brxbrx -- he's not claiming people were in Barbados any earlier, he's talking about humans in the Americas more generally. The guy is also one of the world's most respected scholars in the field of Anglophone Caribbean history, and on topics from English settlement on, I would have no problem with anything he says. I think what  has happened here is that in the interest of being complete, he did some sloppy work on stuff that is ultimately completely tangential to what the book is really about. @ Revolver -- it's a popular text, not an academic one, and citations are scanty: he does not cite anything more than &amp;quot;archaeological finds.&amp;quot; [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 02:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You could give us a name, not just for the author but for the book in question--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:11, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::[http://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/principal/biography.asp The Author]. The book is the 2006 Second Edition of 'The History of Barbados''. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 02:14, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::(EC)The oldest site talked about on Wikipedia is [[wp:Pedra Furada sites|Pedra Furada]], which does go back significantly beyond 25,000 years (though this is disputed). The find is hardly &amp;quot;recent,&amp;quot; however.[[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 02:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I recall back in 2005, there was program entitled ''[http://www.telefilm.ca/en/catalogues/production/first-canadians The First Canadians]''. The theory is that during the last ice age, some people crossed the Atlantic on ice flows which is why several Northeastern aboriginal tribes have European DNA.--[[User:Cms13ca|Cms13ca]] ([[User talk:Cms13ca|talk]]) 02:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::That seems hard to believe for me. An open ice flow doesn't seem like it would do well for keeping a group of migrating people safe from the elements and fed. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 02:26, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::It seems unlikely that humans would have traveled on ice floes as they would be unpredictable and probably not going in the right direction anyway, but during the last glacial maximum 18,000 years ago the ice sheet would have enabled intrepid explorers to walk across. The question is whether they were sufficiently advanced to accomplish this. One would expect that they would need to be at a similar level of technical development as the northern native Americans were say 500 years ago. Land bridges are a much more plausible explanation and for that you need to look to Asia. European DNA is much more likely to have arrived with the Vikings. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 06:47, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Reddit crosses the line ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/ If he died after the bombings, someone's got a bit of explaining to do.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's crossed that line many times, I sinserly doubt this will change any status quos at Reddit, or any other mass internet board site. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 20:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::If certain parts of Sa is meant to be believed, im already expected to believe that they crossed the line because of various subreddits. --&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 20:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::4Chan scoffs at your antiquated notions of accountability and morality.--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 01:54, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Finally got around to watching last night's Daily Show today ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Goddamn did Jon nail it last night. For those of you who missed it (or some of you might have CC online blocked in your country): [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g-FbDzAHSs Here it is]. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 22:35, 25 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I find &amp;quot;last nights Daily Show today&amp;quot; to be a very confusing set of words. I had to count on my fingers. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Shall we go, you and I while we can/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?]] 01:17, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:What was that, 6 amendments violated?  The reaction from the anchors with law degrees (ie. [[Megyn Kelly|Mrs. Essentially]]) made the video though. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 02:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yeah, I half expected one of them to say something along the lines of &amp;quot;Fuck no, are you crazy?&amp;quot; [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 02:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::And this is why I say that &amp;quot;Fox News&amp;quot; is an oxymoron in terms, and it scares me that about half the US believes some of that shit. Why is it that I always seem alone on these issues. At least Jon Stewart has my back. Woots! (PS: Jon Stewart was wrong when he implied a false meaning of &amp;quot;well-regulated militia&amp;quot;, but the rest is great!) [[User:EnlightenmentLiberal|EnlightenmentLiberal]] ([[User talk:EnlightenmentLiberal|talk]]) 04:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Creative Commons ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ironic, yes, but is there any photo on the Internet of [[Ayn Rand]] that we can put in her article without violating copyright? [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 04:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ayn_Rand_Portrait.png]?--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 06:31, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Psychopathetic rubbish ==&lt;br /&gt;
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http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/empathy/&lt;br /&gt;
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More pseudoscience promoted by the esteemed 'skeptic' Steven Novella. Claiming that psychopaths can be identified by fMRI scans. Nonsense. Robert Hare's checklist is pure subjectivity and anyone who has read Without Conscience or even Snakes in Suits with a critical eye can see the joke. 20-30% of USA prisoners are psychopaths? Are poor blacks demonised with a hardwired brain disfunction? Are Taureans stubborn by birth? What claptrap! Stanley Milgram and Phil Zimbardo clearly show what it takes for humans to perform evil acts. I still do not understand how Dr. Novella can still be seen as a leading rational skeptic. &lt;br /&gt;
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This is dangerous stuff he is promoting. A short while ago I was in contact with some prisoners in the UK. Based on the Hare checklist carried out by young trainee psychiatrists, certain people were denied rehabilitation courses and also parole based on the fact that their brains were 'different' and therefore not responsive to change. Wow! I prefer Jon Ronson's work in his book.... &lt;br /&gt;
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Steven Novella - dick. [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:For once I agree with you. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 07:45, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::More than once methinks... [[User:Dirk Steele|Dirk Steele]] ([[User talk:Dirk Steele|talk]]) 07:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::An important aside is that the level of evidence supporting custodial rehabilitation programs is very low. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 14:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Real conspiracies are eventually leaked? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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There seems to be a rule of thumb here and elsewhere that if a conspiracy is indeed real, eventually someone involved will blow the whistle.&lt;br /&gt;
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My question is, how do we know that? Has there been cases where someone had enough guts to warn someone?--[[User:DoomTay|DoomTay]] ([[User talk:DoomTay|talk]]) 15:19, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Watergate is a classic. [[User:Innocent Bystander|Innocent Bystander]] ([[User talk:Innocent Bystander|talk]]) 15:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think the idea is more that the more people in on a conspiracy, over time, someone will eventually spill the beans, either intentionally or accidentally. &lt;br /&gt;
:: Consider the moon landing hoax claims -- at this point, it requires thousands of people to have kept a secret for over four decades. No one has talked (not even a deathbed confession), no one has let the truth slip, etc etc etc. It's completely improbably that could have gone on for so long. [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::The [[toupée fallacy]] applies: if a conspiracy operation was carried out cleverly &amp;amp; covertly enough, leaving no trace of evidence, we simply wouldn't know about it; so not knowing of any successful secret conspiracies isn't proof that there haven't been any.  On the other hand, [[Occam's Razor]] also applies, and for theories like a hoax moon landing (as MDB said), 9/11 carried out as a false flag op by the US government, the Boston bombings being staged, etc., the resources involved in such operations and numbers of people who would need to be maintaining secrecy simply don't compute.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 18:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Yeah, small conspiracies probably do routinely go undetected. If you stole a cookie from the kitchen, swore your siblings to secrecy and then all forgot about it, congratulations you were part of a successful and undetected conspiracy. The objection to conspiracies going undetected for a prolonged time is usually raised in the context of the ''Grand'' conspiracy, a type of theory in which believers say that large (sometimes practically unbounded) groups of people are in on the conspiracy. This is the type of theory where e.g. an independent committee investigates, finds nothing and the believers respond &amp;quot;Of course they'd say that, they're in on it&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::::In terms of big secrets kept by fair-sized groups for a long period, the relatively modern example I always go to is Ultra. People kept that secret for about a decade, long after it served any direct purpose. They were (mostly indirectly, through reading and signing the Official Secrets Act) threatened with prison or perhaps death if they revealed the secret, but on the other hand for much of the time the war was over and they must have at least suspected that the full weight of their burden was no longer present. So that gives us an idea of what a medium-sized organised government conspiracy could be capable of. Manhattan was equally secret but by its nature the secret could not outlast the war. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 21:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::There's a bit of a difference here because you are talking about secret operations, something that was regarded as a national secret for external security reasons; so that the enemy would not be made aware of it. Conspiracies are normally about deceiving the domestic population. People are less inclined to stay quiet when it's their fellow citizens s who are being deceived rather than an enemy being informed. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 21:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Combine that that those types of military ops have only single digit numbers of people in on it, and quite often still end up blown (IE, see the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand or the Russian killing of a Chechnya leader in Qatar. ) --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 00:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Water Fluoridation ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My home town is debating water fluoridation, and the Occupy! (remember that?) facebook page for it is full what I get the impression is largely pseudoscience. I was wondering what Rwikians thoughts on it were. From the studies I've seen-and I'm not a trained scientist or anything- it seems as though there isn't a risk for any negative consequences as long as fluoride levels are below a certain concentration. Further, I got the impression that discoloration of the teeth was the biggest risk, but that at higher concentrations there are some serious consequences. If you're interested in madness, [https://www.facebook.com/groups/occupypdx/?hc_location=stream here's the link]. [[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:[[Fluoridation|We have an article, you know]]--&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;font-size:80%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User talk:Brxbrx|&amp;quot;Shut up]], [[User:Brxbrx|Brx]].&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 16:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yeah, I know. I was looking for thoughts.[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 16:58, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
===Who are the brain police?===&lt;br /&gt;
::: Don't ya know? Thoughts are banned from here. (unless they accord with a pre 'determined' agenda) --[[Special:Contributions/81.101.244.221|81.101.244.221]] ([[User talk:81.101.244.221|talk]]) 17:21, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{DFTT}}--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 18:00, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::[[File:Fish.jpg|40px]] - And a RobFish as well--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 21:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Excuse me? --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 23:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::My thoughts exactly, Peasant--[[User:Durbinator|Transitional Form]][[User_Talk:Durbinator|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Still Durbinating&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 23:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Captcha Issues ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ok, I'm new here and haven't edited much of anything, but I'm having serious problems with the Captcha system and couldn't find a solution anywhere, though it is certainly possible I just missed it in the massive amount of information on this site. I apologize in advance if that is the case. Anyway, I understand the purpose of Captcha, why it's necessary and all that so please don't take this as a &amp;quot;Captcha is stupid and you should get rid of it&amp;quot; post either. Anyway, I'm running Win7 and have tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox and no matter what it takes me at least 2-3 tries (often typing the same answer for the same question) to get through Captcha and post anything. I had this same problem at AW, so maybe it's just a issue with my system, but I don't know. If anyone has any advice, great; if not, it's just an annoyance and not an actual problem so I'll just deal with it until I get promoted. Thanks, [[User:Pdoke2|Pdoke2]] ([[User talk:Pdoke2|talk]]) 18:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I think it's temporary. I'm not really new but not exactly a frequent user either. As I recall, it's on for a certain period of time after you first create your profile.--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 23:20, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Yes, it is temporary for new accounts.  Also, Pdoke2 was made 'autopatrolled' earlier, which should mean it doesn't happen again anyway. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 23:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you for your responses and Thank you to whoever made me 'autopatrolled' so quickly after I posted my problem here. You guys are great. [[User:Pdoke2|Pdoke2]] ([[User talk:Pdoke2|talk]]) 03:03, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Blog broken, should be back within 24 hours ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The blog is completely broken. The DNS is being repointed as we speak, we should have a slightly working blog some time tomorrow living on the RWF server - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 00:25, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Religion vs depression ==&lt;br /&gt;
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(from Slashdot) Study [http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/04/26/belief-in-god-improves-mental-health-outcomes/54121.html] indicating that people who believe in God get better outcomes in therapy for depression. I'll wager some of the more out-of-it religious types will make claims about this that go far beyond what the study actually shows. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 03:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association??? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Anybody know anything about this publication? Backstory: I was up late with flu bug watching infomercials to fall asleep. One I came across was a &amp;quot;memory enhancer&amp;quot; called Procera. Naturally, being a member of RW, I was skeptical of many of the claims made on the infomercial (i.e: another miracle pill for memory-loss) but the one that stuck out most was the claim that it had been scientifically researched and that a double-blind, peer-reviewed scientific study had been published in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association, for which they then show a logo similar to that of the more well-known Journal of the American Medical Association. Basically, a bait-and-switch eye trick. But I thought I'd poke the community here and see if anybody knew anything about it. Is it a legitimate publication or another crank journal? [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 07:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun_talk:Andrew_Schlafly</id>
		<title>Fun talk:Andrew Schlafly</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun_talk:Andrew_Schlafly"/>
				<updated>2013-04-24T08:34:28Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Retain */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{talkpage}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Three separate articles... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I understand--and totally supported--the idea of two Andy articles, one satirical, and one a serious critique designed to show potential homeschoolers what they were dealing with. Now we have a silly one, a sillier one in the Fun space, and a serious one. Why? Is it clear what goes in which silly one? Why are there things that appear in both satirical articles? Can we go back to a two-article paradigm, or have some sort of clarity as to why we need two satirical articles and what goes where?[[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 16:53, 31 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:To avoid confusion, can we keep the discussion about this in [[Talk:Andrew_Schlafly#Three_separate_articles...|one place]]?  [[User:Weaseloid|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;maroon&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Hurry Up&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;w&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;easeLOId&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]][[User Talk:Weaseloid|~]] 17:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, sure--to avoid confusion, can we keep all our silly stuff about Andy in one place? [[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 17:54, 31 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I ain't gonna keep fucking repeating myself on this issue.  I've spelt it out about three times on the talk page linked above.  I'm not got waste time typing out again here.  If you want to discuss further, follow the link above.  [[User:Weaseloid|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;maroon&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Hurry Up&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;w&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;easeLOId&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]][[User Talk:Weaseloid|~]] 17:57, 31 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::My point exactly. [[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 17:59, 31 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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This article is ridiculous and pointless.   I vote for deletion.  Salvage any yuks we need and jam them into the funspace article.[[User:Doggedpersistence|'''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#00F0A20&amp;quot;&amp;gt;DogP&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;''']] 17:42, 1 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Fine by me. The &amp;quot;Andy is a Muslim&amp;quot; crap is already duplicated [[Conservapedia:Mystery:Is Andy Schlafly a Muslim?|here]], although I really think it belongs in fun, essay or the bin. {{User:Weaseloid/sig}} 17:49, 1 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Why... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...is the entire &amp;quot;sensible&amp;quot; article at the bottom of the page? [[User:Insert_Name_Here|Yours truly]][[User_Talk:Insert_Name_Here|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Dear Sir&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 17:47, 1 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's a transclusion error.  This was built to display the same gallery as appears in the &amp;quot;satire&amp;quot; article, but everything's been moved umpteen times in the last two days so it's now transcluding the wrong article.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig}} 17:49, 1 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== I don't believe it! ==&lt;br /&gt;
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All  I did was attempt to make Conservapedia a bit less radically conservative and Andrew Schlafly banned my account for five years! I did not even do any vandalism!  {{unsigned|Lefty}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, that'll happen alright.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 11:32, 28 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::You did vandalise it. You tried to make it less radically conservative. {{:User:Armondikov/sig}} 13:01, 28 March 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Redirects ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Under discussion [[Talk:Andrew Schlafly#Redirects|here]].  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 06:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Should there be a link to [[Self projection as god]]? [[Special:Contributions/82.44.143.26|82.44.143.26]] ([[User talk:82.44.143.26|talk]]) 16:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:No, but thanks for stopping by.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 17:53, 13 April 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== His evil British twin brother? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just saw this story on the ITV News at 6:30: (but using BBC as online source):&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-13713147 Somerset sex abuse teacher Nigel Leat 'extremely devious']:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;A mother of children at a primary school where a teacher sexually abused pupils has branded the man &amp;quot;extremely devious&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
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The woman has spoken of parents' devastation on learning Nigel Leat was being investigated for sexually abusing children in his classroom.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[User:AP|AP]] ([[User talk:AP|talk]]) 17:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Birth Certificate? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Is there any evidence that Schlafly was born in the United States? I heard that he was actually born in Micronesia. I'd like to see his birth certificate to be sure.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bella et Vita==&lt;br /&gt;
Now amended to be civilised and decent [[User:Scherben|Scherben]] ([[User talk:Scherben|talk]]) 03:39, 27 January 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Biased article mocking another human being ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Please contribute to the 'Quick Poll' at the bottom of this section.&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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I am sorry that I added my opinion to your article. It just infuriates me that you can set a standard for the opinion of the page, and revert any edits that state an alternate opinion. Do you agree that people whom you disagree with should be treated this way?{{unsigned|184.6.214.237}}&lt;br /&gt;
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: Not everyone I disagree with should be treated in any specific way. The logic does not follow. This article treats Andy this way. I disagree with Andy. Therefore, any article about someone I disagree with is this way. Perhaps there's something more unique about Andy? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  15:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Andy is a sick, disturbed individual who is an embarrassment to Christians, and humans. This article is much kinder than it could have been to a figure who spreads the most perverted idea of Christianity this side of Westboro. This is a man who thought he could rewrite the freaking bible! We have a massive catalog of his outright lies. Read it and get back to us. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
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You my friend must rethink your theory of embarrassment. How can you say this?? If you believe that this article is &amp;quot;much kinder&amp;quot;, I am very confident that you should rethink that too. Please exit the liberal box that you are reading about him. Have you even ever met him??{{unsigned|184.6.214.237}}&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;No&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt; person is perfect!!! When Bill Clinton was made president of the US, what did he do (under oath)?? When Nixon was president, what did he do?? When President Obama was running for office, what promises were not fulfilled (we're 4 years into it, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN).{{unsigned|184.6.214.237}}&lt;br /&gt;
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A biased article mocking another human being? ''Must be Rationalwiki''!--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 15:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Thank you so mush for helping me out [[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]]!!--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 15:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You're welcome--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 15:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Can someone (on the left) agree that this &amp;quot;Fun:Andrew Schlafly&amp;quot; page went overboard and should be deleted??--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:04, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Probably not. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  16:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That's what I thought... &amp;lt;b&amp;gt;If you agree that you want this &amp;quot;Fun:Andrew Schlafly&amp;quot; to be deleted, please speak...&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm opposed to funspace generally, so...--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
AGREED!!! I never would have believed that it existed if someone told me!--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;3&amp;quot; color=&amp;quot;#FF0000&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Does ANYONE else want the page deleted???&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You don't get me: this page as a part of funspace I'm fine with: Andy is an idiot who says idiotic and sometimes dangerous things, and people should be aware of them, if mocking him is the best way to do it, then so be it. But I don't much like funspace as a general idea because it reduces how much of a professional appearance RW has. And if anyone says they support deleting this article, it'll only be the few other people here that support deleting funspace altogether. &lt;br /&gt;
:Also, making it seem like we agree makes me feel dirty.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 16:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So why do you call yourself a conservative?? Everything you've stated thus far has been in favor of my efforts. And don't transitively call me names.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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Have you met him?? EVER??--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 16:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You said bad things about Obama, Nixon and Clinton. I also say bad things about Osama bin Laden, but I've never met him. Since when was meeting someone a requirement to mock? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  16:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: (Thank you to whoever just put the delete/retain poll on this subject. Thats really nice of you.) I did not say bad things about Obama, Nixon, or Clinton. I proved that they are fallible human beings just like every one of us. I would never MOCK someone, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT MEETING HIM!!!--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 17:04, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Really? You're an awesome dude, then. I'm not as awesome as you, I guess. Just so we can verify - you wouldn't mind linking to your contributions to other wikis and facebook/twitter/whatnot? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lets just say that I wouldn't go out, publicly demeaning him without meeting him. I have not posted to other wikis or anything else. You can take a look at my user talk page. I think I nailed some of the questions given there.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 17:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: So you have '''never''' edited Wikipedia? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Not really. (Just word and grammar corrections). Have you?--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 17:33, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: So you've never edited the article about Andrew Schlafly to defame a certain New Jersey senator? I edited Wikipedia under the username Hipocrite for years. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:34, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am an honest man, with a not-so-honest memory. I did edit that page in that way, but it completely slipped my mind. Sorry about that. If your not convinced, look for something else. That's the only article. Lately, i've been pretty disturbed at the ganging up on Andy. Again, that completely slipped my mind. I'm REALLY Sorry.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 17:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: [[Conservative Deceit]] in action. Who told you about this page? [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::So you forgot about an edit within [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Schlafly&amp;amp;diff=prev&amp;amp;oldid=551044387 24] [http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Fun_talk:Andrew_Schlafly&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=1184330 hours]? I don't know that you have the mental capacity to continue editing...unless of course you're being dishonest, though I would hope that beneath someone whose only intent is to help preserve Mr. Schlafly's good name. [[Special:Contributions/96.239.179.37|96.239.179.37]] ([[User talk:96.239.179.37|talk]]) 18:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That's all I want to do. As far as my mental capacity... You are already judging me as if i'm your enemy. Please stop. I forgot completely. &amp;lt;b&amp;gt;When you asked the question, were you testing me (aka. stalking)? (this reply is for 'Hipocrite')&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 18:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Of course I was testing you. I don't think testing and stalking are the same thing. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  18:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is there any person who agrees with me? Please speak!!--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 18:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Dosen't look like it. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  18:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I take it that this organization will always be anti-Andy and anti-conservative and anti-all that conservatives believe.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 18:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think you or Andy represent &amp;quot;conservatives.&amp;quot; You are a home schooled kid. Andy is a fringe catholic figure, mocked by even his own &amp;quot;side&amp;quot; of the political argument. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  18:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Don't you dare try to mark me as something. Are you homeschooled?? What's your IQ?? Take a look at the comparison between public school graduation rate, and homeschooled grad rate. You can keep feeding the pubic school system. IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 18:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
	&lt;br /&gt;
: I'm not homeschooled. My IQ is OVER NINE THOUSAND! (In the real world, no one gets IQ tests). Graduation rates are not a meaningful statistic for multiple reasons. First, because homeschoolers have a graduation rate of zero (they do not graduate from school). Second, because homeschooling in self-selecting. Correcting for economics and other factors, the purported advantages of homeschooling shrink substantially. [[WP:It gets better]]. I know it's hard to be a homeschooled homosexual. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  18:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(EC)The site (as outlined in its mission) opposes pseudo-science and authoritarianism. Andrew Schlafly pushes both of these things. If you're trying to help out Andrew Schlafly, I can understand why you're distressed so many people deride him... but this is all over the Internet. RationalWiki is one of many sites that criticises or mocks him... Disgust, like respect, is earned. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 18:38, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(reply to 'Hipocrite') Why, because you are one? If you don't like grad rates, then how about college acception?! It's almost obvious that your IQ is over 9,000. Actually, I believe you're underestimating yourself. You're a funny guy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: College &amp;quot;acception&amp;quot; is not a meaningful statistic. The number of things that need to be corrected for make it impossible to evaluate. In addition to economics, demographics and geography, you'd need to correct for religious/non-traditional schools, schools applied to, and the like. If any real study has been done, I'd like to see it. I'm certain it does not exist in any quality. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  19:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
THANK YOU [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] FOR BEING THE FIRST PERSON TO AGREE WITH ME ON THIS ISSUE. PLEASE, SPREAD THE WORD.--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 20:37, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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User: Powdersmokeandleather, why did you revert my changes if you want the page deleted anyway?--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 13:52, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Because as long as the article is here, it should suck less. Your editing made it suck more. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 13:55, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::There isn't going to be consensus on deletion the way you've raised the issue as some anonymous griefer with an agenda. You will also fail at editing it. Someone who knows the site better is going to have more success. The article is going to get tuned up because someone who cares is going to make it better, not save someone's feelings or accomodate your druthers. In other words, at this point you're pissing in the wind and basically just wasting peoples' time. How about you move on and go fight someone else's battles somewhere else? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 19:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm sorry that you feel that way, but honestly, its your time to waste. Anyone can either defend their opinions on my poll, or waste their time actually pissing in the wind (haha). I don't think that anyone here will be making any page-saving changes because the entire idea of having a page devoted to such nonsense is ridiculous. Thank you for taking a little time out of your daily life to contribute. It benefits the both of us (you, for stating your opinion; me, for achieving my goal).--[[Special:Contributions/184.6.214.237|184.6.214.237]] ([[User talk:184.6.214.237|talk]]) 01:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;hr noshade&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;font size=&amp;quot;4&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;Do YOU want the &amp;quot;Fun:Andy Schlafly&amp;quot; page to be deleted?&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Quick poll===&lt;br /&gt;
====Delete====&lt;br /&gt;
*Out of date, unfunny, Hitler, mean-spirited, unnecessary in light of non-&amp;quot;fun&amp;quot; article&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;, and what the fuck is cisgender&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt;. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 20:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;*&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;'''Comment'''* The Hitler image does violate Godwin's law and I would lobby for its removal, were it not for the fact that Conservapedia seems to hold Hitler in such esteem given the [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Adolf_Hitler&amp;amp;limit=500 number of sites that link to the man] which include such diverse topics as liberalism, the New Deal, Darwinism, and moustaches. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 20:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
*We have a quite decently put-together article that takes Schlafly down and unquestionably shows him to be an intellectually dishonest, incompetent, ideologically dangerous buffoon. Why engage in second-rate snark when reality is so much the more shocking? [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 13:44, 20 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Retain====&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User:Jack Hughes|Jack Hughes]] ([[User talk:Jack Hughes|talk]]) 17:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Andy's funny, just not ''hah hah'' funny. {{User:Edgerunner76/sig}} 17:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* The man's an out and out idiot and deserves any calumny that can be heaped on him. &lt;br /&gt;
::#Conservative;&lt;br /&gt;
::#God-botherer;&lt;br /&gt;
::#Anti-science;&lt;br /&gt;
::#Incompetent lawyer;&lt;br /&gt;
::#Homeschool propagandiser; etc. etc. .... [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 19:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* Worth keeping IMO. Maybe a bit of touching up, but certainly no deletion. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[User:Ace McWicked|Ace]][[User Talk:Ace McWicked|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;i9&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 22:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* The reason it is up for deletion is pretty stupid, IMO. Yes, it could use some touching up and we could even divulge into whether or not it's worth touching up. But for the reasons given for marking it for deletion (it's too biased), well, welcome to RationalWiki. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 08:34, 24 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Goat====&lt;br /&gt;
* Until such time as funspace is depreciated. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] ([[User talk:Hipocrite|talk]])  17:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* The mainspace article is well-written with excellent sources, often from Schlafly's own &amp;quot;pen&amp;quot;. I don't see the funspace article as particularly abusive, nor funny. Unfortunately, I'm not funny, so I cannot re-write this myself.--[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 17:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* If it's deleted, it will be because all Funspace articles are deleted, not because one of Andy's homeschoolers doesn't like it. [[User:Spud|Spud]] ([[User talk:Spud|talk]]) 17:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* I reiterate the sentiments of Hipocrite and Spud.--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 18:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
* For our clueless IP - The &amp;quot;goat&amp;quot; section indicates some of us are questioning the very purpose of the FUN space itself. But if FUN stays, then we will retain this article. Don't mistake this broader discussion about the FUN space as being support for your heavily misguided beliefs. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 02:52, 21 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whacker</id>
		<title>Whacker</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whacker"/>
				<updated>2013-04-23T06:53:10Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Undo revision 1185590 by 75.225.112.141 (talk) Perhaps, but that doesn't mean we replace it with commentary.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;A '''whacker''' (also spelled '''wacker''') is to law enforcement and other emergency services what a {{w|railfan|&amp;quot;foamer&amp;quot;}} is to [[Fun:Railroad woo|railroads]]: an overenthusiastic amateur they wish would get the hell out of the way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The term is common in volunteer firefighting for those who join the fire department mainly as an excuse to show off to the world that they are bad-ass firefighters but with little to no interest in doing the work involved, among police for those who think their involvement in something peripheral to police work such as being a mall security guard or a junior explorer makes them a ''bona fide'' cop and god's gift to law enforcement, and in ham radio to poke fun at the small number of hams who always seem to mysteriously show up at public emergencies decked out in an expensive array of tactical radio gear, police boots, and an orange vest, to &amp;quot;offer their services&amp;quot; and get in the way.  Ham radio whackers mistakenly think their ham license makes them real honest to goodness &amp;quot;first responders&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Real emergency services personnel consider whackers nuisances at best and wish they would stay the hell away so they could do their jobs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==How to spot a whacker==&lt;br /&gt;
The most obvious sign of whackerdom is a personal car or truck that looks like one of these:&lt;br /&gt;
* A red pickup truck with antennas, stickers, and a huge firefighting mural in the back window.  They may also mount amber emergency lights on it if they can legally get away with it.&lt;br /&gt;
* Any car with about 16 different antennas, a spotlight mounted on the side, several radios mounted inside tuned to every police and fire frequency, and boxes of tactical gear, a medical jump kit, night vision goggles, portable radios, a bulletproof vest, traffic cones, red and blue lights for quick mounting on the vehicle, and who knows what else in the trunk.&lt;br /&gt;
* A $500 junk car with $18,000 in emergency lights and radio gear.&lt;br /&gt;
* Any personal vehicle with big magnetic decals on it indicating the person is some kind of emergency services volunteer: search and rescue, CERT, React International, etc., that they leave on their vehicle at all times, not just when they are actually involved in an emergency.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Variations==&lt;br /&gt;
Variations on whackerdom include the small percentage of volunteer National Weather Service spotters and Skywarn volunteers who take their hobby ''way'' too seriously and deck out their vehicle with tens of thousands of dollars of weather equipment and storm chasing gear that they may not even know how to use, and the occasional person arrested for impersonating an officer who stalks drivers on the interstate and, when questioned, claims they are on a secret spy mission for the White House or CIA.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/525014/Stryker-nabbed-again.html?nav=5006&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2009/05/15/story_officer.html?sid=102&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;   The presence of whackers among their ranks is an embarrassment to other radio hams, weather spotters, CERT volunteers, search and rescue teams and the like, who will go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of being one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another variation is the wannabee, someone who is not in any way involved in emergency services at all, but who wants people to think they are.  Again, they tend to use their personal car or truck to do this.  There is also a paramilitary version, &amp;quot;[[mall ninja]]s&amp;quot;, who are always wearing camo, collect big Rambo knives (and guns, if they can get away with it), take [[martial arts]] courses, read ''[[Soldier of Fortune]]'' magazine, and fantasize about being a [[mercenary]].  Many wannabees and mall ninjas are just misunderstood teenagers going through a teen angst phase, but if this behavior continues into their 20s and 30s it is a good sign they need to get a real life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Among emergency medical services, &amp;quot;Ricky Rescue&amp;quot; has a similar meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Etymology==&lt;br /&gt;
Possible etymology of the term includes [[crank|whack-job]], [[masturbation|wanking or wacking off]], a police pejorative for rent-a-cops and security guards (from Wackenhut Corporation, one of the major employers of same), or that they have so many big antennas on their vehicle it goes &amp;quot;whack&amp;quot; every time they drive under a bridge.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Whackers for evangelism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Scientology Volunteer Minister]]s are a corps of whackers sponsored by the [[Church of Scientology]] to make the Church's good humanitarian works visible to the media at any opportunity. They notoriously got in the fucking way at 9/11&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/ Operation Clambake: Scientology at Ground Zero]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and the Haiti earthquake&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://gawker.com/5462117/scientologists-in-haiti-a-firsthand-account Scientologists in Haiti: A Firsthand Account]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/26/john-travolta-scientology-aid-haiti John Travolta flies Scientologists' aid to Haiti]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. And you thought it wasn't possible to hate Scientology any more than you do!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Blackwater]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Gun nut]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Mall ninja]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Militia movement]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Survivalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.hamsexy.com/ Hamsexy] see the photos!  read the stories!  much fun.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Sociology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Vigilantes]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-04-19T09:01:58Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* WHAT. THE. FUCK? */ Further live-update from CNN/ABC News&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{Template:Talkpage/PibotHidden&lt;br /&gt;
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}}{{Bartop}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__[[Category:RationalWiki|{{PAGENAME}}]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Needs Goat]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead link wiki project Screen Shot 2013-04-17 at 10.09.29 AM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 4/17/13: '''3611'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Why is this website apologetic for Judaism? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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''Discussion moved to [[Talk:Talmud]]''&lt;br /&gt;
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== Package sent to Mississippi Senator containing ricin ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22178517 What the...?] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I worry this soon will be a common event (Assassination attempts in general, not just Ricin traps) --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 03:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Obviously a false flag operation to discredit liberals. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 06:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::For a man with a &amp;quot;solidly conservative&amp;quot; voting record, it doesn't take much Google-time to find plenty of places denouncing him as a RINO - so let's not discount right-wing nutters doing it just yet. And after all, being a majority ''leader'', he's the natural target for those too batshit crazy for the Republicans to handle. Still, this sort of thing follows most terrorist attacks as they tend to send other, completely unrelated nutters over the edge to do their own thing. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like this might be a case where he was just the first to get his, as there are now mulitple reports, including the White House.  This does lead to the question, did any get in before?  I hope not. [[User:Ravenhull|Ravenhull]] ([[User talk:Ravenhull|talk]]) 16:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dreamhost VPS hosting ==&lt;br /&gt;
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*http://dreamhost.com/servers/vps/&lt;br /&gt;
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Does anyone know if this is a good hosting service?  Also, I'm wondering how good their basic VPS hosting option is.  It's $15/month for unlimited storage, bandwidth, MySQL databases, and 300 MB of memory.  Since I'm still learning about managing websites (and getting better) I'm not sure how to evaluate that.  I get a decent number of readers to my websites, but not a huge number.  Would 300 MB be enough, and how big a website would that be able to work for?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 03:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:That looks like just another cheap, low-quality VPS that claims something it can't provide (unlimited storage and data) I recommend [http://linode.com Linode].&lt;br /&gt;
:With a &amp;quot;decent number&amp;quot; of visitors, especially if you're using MySQL, i doubt 300MB is going to work well. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Linode? I would say steer clear of Linode, whatever their merits otherwise, until some clarity about this recent break-in exists. Did Linode really try to bribe bad guys to say nothing to their customers about a successful break-in that compromised financial data? Did they then downplay that same break-in as only a &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; threat to passwords? If not why does some guy have encrypted pastebins of sensitive information that seems to be from Linode?&lt;br /&gt;
::But yes, Dreamhost is very cheap, mostly hosting rather than private servers. You get what you pay for. It really does depend what &amp;quot;a decent number&amp;quot; of readers is and also what your sites do. 300MB will stretch a lot further running PHP (spit) than Java for example. The stuff about &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; is just the result of being dominated by competitive claims for an aspect of the service that costs essentially nothing per user. If the mean disk used is 450MB per user, and you advertise 2GB storage, your competitor will advertise 4GB. And why not? The average disk used will remain at 450MB anyway. For a while Dreamhost actually ran a promotion where the maximum size reduced every day or something, from a ridiculously high number to a different smaller ridiculously high number as a joke, I guess they got tired of that and just wrote unlimited. Frankly, you really won't &amp;quot;run out&amp;quot; of disk space, or bandwidth, your site will start to be annoyingly slow long before either of those happens and your users will go somewhere else.&lt;br /&gt;
::Finally, I would beware of stepping up to VPS unless you're confident you're just getting too big for virtual hosting ''and'' either you're happy to spend a bunch of time administering the private server, applying security fixes, doing housekeeping and so on, or you have the finances to hire somebody competent to do that for you. On the virtual host a lot of the security is taken care of by the people who own the host and for VPS that isn't true any more. Since you're also growing you will attract more bad guys, and you need to stay a step ahead of them. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 09:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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RationalWiki is a very happy customer of Linode. Your CPU and memory are not overcommitted. The systems basically work and basically stay up. If you sign up with [https://www.linode.com/?r=1098a79230220fa89df39ac0d29bb2bc7c8c67dc this referrer link] then the RationalWiki Foundation gets a few pennies back. I am also using Rackspace (my private stuff is camped out on a friend's server) and they offer the same sort of deals as Linode, buuuuuut they really suck - ''e.g.'' most of their IPs are in the blackhole lists, so it's very difficult to send email from your Rackspace VM. So there are actually differences between virtual server providers, and Linode are great. Questions about the recent breakin don't change my opinion much - I still heartily recommend them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone selling &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; anything is lying. I know many reasonably happy Dreamhost customers, but they're all doing tiny tiny hobby things. The Linode/Rackspace tier sell you specific amounts of stuff and you know what you're buying. Sorta pricey for a private hobby server, but if you were doing anything even slightly commercial it'd be very good.&lt;br /&gt;
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As Tialaramex notes, you do need to be comfortable with being completely your own sysadmin - what you get is a Linux VM (probably Ubuntu 12.04) with nothing. If you're running a MediaWiki, you really really really have to put a Squid or Varnish in front or have it fall over every time you have the slightest traffic. What's it for? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 15:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks.  I realize that &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; is really just marketing, and really what it's saying is that they're betting that you aren't going to get ahead of what they can provide.  Do you know how much traffic 1 GB of ram and 2 TB of bandwidth would last for?  If I don't go with VPS for now, I might go to Dreamhost shared hosting if they provide good shared hosting service.  Goddady has far too many problems, and their solutions are either to tell you that it's a scripting problem and they can't help, or what you want to do doesn't work on shared hosting and you need to go to VPS or dedicated.  I've also been having a problem where I can't log in or connect to MySQL databases I setup manually, and have to use sqlite or an autoinstaller, which are terrible and I hate.  I've even written an article on MediaWiki.org telling people not to use them because of their foulups and their lack of options during the installation.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The main thing that I'm doing is setting up a series of 40k wikis, in a few languages and separate wikis for merging the fanfiction with official background.  The English main wiki is the only one that is really active though.  I've made a few side websites to support it, including a coppermine image gallery and a widget and template to thumbnail pictures on the wiki as if they were uploaded to it, and a small Wordpress powered social networking site since SocialProfile didn't work out and MW isn't great for community interaction.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Out of curiosity, how long do you think this guy's wiki hosting service will last? http://tv-wiki.com/wiki/TVwiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 18:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::RW has (I'm going by vague memory here, not diving into the assorted control panels etc) something like 1800GB/month and we don't come close to using it. You'll be fine for the moment. Godaddy is shitful and Dreamhost would be better - though sometimes &amp;quot;go up a level&amp;quot; is the right answer. (But then I'm a sysadmin and a control addict, and I want to control the horizontal and the vertical. YMMV.)&lt;br /&gt;
::An email to mediawiki-l, or a post on mwusers.com, asking about low-traffic fan-stuff hosting options might be productive. Set out a precis of what you've written here.&lt;br /&gt;
::No idea how TVwiki will do. Looks like he's trying to duplicate Wikia - but Wikia have all the eyegouging ads because this stuff costs money to do right if it's at all popular - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 19:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Betelnuts ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So, today I was browsing the supplement section at the store, and I came across a bottle of pet dewormer whose number one ingredient was (interestingly enough) [[List of herbs and spices#B|betelnuts]]. At first I thought it was just [[Big Placebo]] geting away with selling dangerous and ineffective products (I'm not sure what the regulations are for pet supplements), but now I'm wondering if perhaps betelnut isn't toxic/carcinogenic when given to cats or dogs. Is there any information on betelnut toxicity to pets?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It doesn't matter if it's toxic per se. It's about dose control. The most convenient way to kill or dislodge intestinal parasites is to eat something poisonous that's poorly absorbed from the gut. The dose for the (smaller) parasite quickly exceeds its tolerance and it is killed or becomes too sick to hold on, whereupon it will get excreted. Meanwhile the dose for the much larger host doesn't exceed a safe level. The over-the-counter medicines for such parasites in humans function the same way. If you were, unaccountably, to swallow handfuls of OTC worm medicine pills at a time you could get sick, so don't do that. All that being said I won't promise Betelnut actually deworms dogs at a dose that won't harm the dog, but the principle isn't unsound. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 08:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::General rule of thumb: if it's potentially harmful, then it's not [[Big Placebo]], because homeopathy doesn't do anything (good OR bad).  In fact, it's more likely to be medicine than an herbal remedy.  If it IS harmful, it's not medicine.  --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 16:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== One-way ticket ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Would anyone here seriously go on a [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456 one-way trip to Mars]? At my age it's something that I might consider as I've not got a lot to lose but probably wouldn't meet the fitness criteria. For a young person though it would be either an early death through radiation exposure, starvation/asphyxiation if the life-support systems went wrong, or possibly a very restricted existence as a human mole. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: *groan* Those people have been periodically on the news since last year. What did they do now, issue another press release?--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Another recruitment drive for it after no one took up the offer? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::More like another fundraising drive. AFAIK, they don't suffer from a lack of candidates.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 08:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Human Anatomy and Physiology project ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I was a bit late to the topic choosing party, and thus lost my ideas to other people. Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a high school honors level anatomy and physiology research project?--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 15:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Do you go to a school run by uptight Christians in an uptight Christian county in an uptight Christian state? If so, consider doing something focused on sexuality and reproduction. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 15:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: no, nothing like that, but thanks! If that were the case, I'd definitely do that--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 15:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Four words: &amp;quot;Does size really matter?&amp;quot; [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My older brother did his high school research project on &amp;quot;which is healthier for you: Twinkies or Ho Hos?&amp;quot;  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 16:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::How much more is there to such a project than looking at the nutrition labels? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 19:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ATP reacts with NTP to form NSDAP.  You can't explain that.  I accidentally bio-chemistry and it didn't make any sense.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 05:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Should there be an IQ test to serve in Congress? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Rep. Louie Gohmert (cRetin - [[Texas]]) says that [http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/04/17/gohmert_says_islamic_terrorists_trained_to_act_hispanic.html Islamic terrorists are trained to act Hispanic.]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Allah.... uuhhh.... taco-bar!&amp;quot; [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:We get the government we deserve. Theoretically, the voting populace should be intelligent enough to refuse to vote for ignoramuses and lunatics, but here we are. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 16:09, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The idea of getting the government we deserve fills me with despair. [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd say that Texas has a huge education problem. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 17:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== So I was in Speech today... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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And the two stand-out speeches were &amp;quot;''Why you shouldn't try fad diets''&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;''Why the scientific evidence supports creation''&amp;quot;. Apparently 3/4 of my class is religious, 1/2 believe in creationism; and most of the speech was &amp;quot;this is why science is wrong&amp;quot;, which is quite sad because I like this guy and had hoped he might have tried to pull out a &amp;quot;why creationism is therefor right&amp;quot;. This goes along with another friends experience in Geology, where on the first day a fundy stood up and announced &amp;quot;im a christian &amp;amp; creationist&amp;quot;, and then the lecture that day was &amp;quot;Why The flood is wrong and how it led to us finding out real science&amp;quot;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 16:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:If those people ever got as far as &amp;quot;this is therefore why creationism is right&amp;quot; we'd have considerably different experiences in these perpetual online &amp;quot;debates&amp;quot;. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Only in it for the gold? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Brian Dunning]] [http://www.skepticalabyss.com/?p=291 has plead guilty to wire fraud], &amp;quot;cookie stuffing&amp;quot; done through his websites, presumably including ''Skeptoid''.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 17:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I see what you did there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 17:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::What an awesome crime, if poorly executed (should have created multiple affiliates under different names) --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 21:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Can we facepalm? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10751682 Yes we can!!!]  What's that phrase Wonkette uses - Shitmuffin?--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 19:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Peter Hanson should now, at all times, be referred to as &amp;quot;penis.&amp;quot; [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 19:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Glaswegians -- ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I will be in your fine city for a conference next month. Looking for recommendations re: cheap food, one excellent &amp;quot;splurge a little bit&amp;quot; dinner, and a pub where they fucking well know how to pour a pint of Guinness (or a decent local stout). Will also be making a day trip to Edinburgh, so same there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 21:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:In Edinburgh you'll need to go to The Baked Potato Shop. And stop people in the street and ask if they're Phantom Hoover. Where ''did'' he go? [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 02:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Depends on your taste, but in Edinburgh I can thoroughly recommend [http://www.caferoyaledinburgh.co.uk/ Cafe Royale] (ignore the restaurant and eat in the bar) or you could try Tom Kitchin's new gaff [http://www.scranandscallie.com/ The Scran and Scallie] for pubs - not been there for a while, but the Oxford used to be a decent boozer, or The World's End. [[User:Worm|Worm]] ([[User talk:Worm|talk]]) 10:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::In Glasgow you might want to look for the [http://www.babbitybowster.com/ Babbity Bowster, Blackfriars Street], in the east of the city centre, somewhere between George Square and Glasgow Green. They used to serve the best of the local Scottish cuisine when I lived there. Not too expensive either, back then, but really great food. However, you might need to reserve a table in advance.&lt;br /&gt;
:::For a good night out there are a few nice pubs in the eastern parts of the city centre around the Merchant Square. [http://www.kingtuts.co.uk/ King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut (272a Saint Vincent Street)] or The Scotia Bar are good for life music as is the Sharkeys on Ballater Street (in the Gorbals on other side of the Clyde), where the locals and Irish people meet to join in in folk sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you are there for a weekend do not miss the Barras and have a pint at the Barrowland Ballrooms. Check out [http://www.list.co.uk/ &amp;quot;The List&amp;quot;], also available from paperstand around the city, for Jazz concerts or whateveryouareupto.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Posher restaurants and pubs you will find around George Square, on Buchanan Street or in the West End near Glasgow Uni. Stouts, ales, lagers or Guiness are served in most of them but strictly stay away from Irn Bru... Great city all in all, most people tend not to agree. :-( - [[Special:Contributions/217.255.31.39|217.255.31.39]] ([[User talk:217.255.31.39|talk]]) 17:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Oh and how could I have forgotten? In both Edinburgh and Glasgow, if you like Indian then I can heartily recommend [http://www.motherindiaglasgow.co.uk/ Mother India's Cafe] - like Indian tapas. Superb food, good prices, great staff. Well worth it. [[User:Worm|Worm]] ([[User talk:Worm|talk]]) 08:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Spoiler template ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Does RW have any template that can be used to hide [[User:Krej/Quiz|these quiz answers]]? I know we have one for quotes in foreign languages...--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 00:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ehrenstein made {{tl|censor}} a little while ago&amp;amp;mdash;that might work. Or are you thinking something collapseable? [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, yeah, I'd prefer a collapsible one. I can use the censor template if there isn't any, though.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 01:46, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well there's {{tl|collapse}}, but you might want to take the code of it (rather than using the template itself) so that you can change the header from &amp;quot;this discussion has been closed&amp;quot; to something more relevant. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I've seen forums use censor tags that work the same way for spoilers.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The collapse template works. Thanks!--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 06:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I use &amp;gt;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;this&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt; (select to see). Of course it worketh not on other background colours. [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 07:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::The collapse template does run on a script, so if someone has that disabled it won't work. Though I wonder how people operate the interent with javascript disabled these days... [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''pathetic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You go &amp;quot;hmm, why isn't this working? Oh, right.&amp;quot; Then you tell noscript to allow scripts on that page. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 23:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Vector skins ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have a prototype of a blue skin here: https://code.google.com/p/mw-vectorblue/source/browse/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not done yet, but I have the basic appearance done.  There's still work that needs to be done on the tabs at the top.  If anyone wants commit access, just send me a Google account email address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'll work on a few other basic color variants also.  By having a separate skin, we can allow users to pick their own skin while having a separate default skin for the wiki. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Please put it on Github. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 06:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm guessing that this is better than Google Code?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] [[File:Deadhorse.gif|35px|link=User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] 20:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seen these yet guys? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://bostonconspiracy.com/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 02:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Whoever did that, kudos. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Very classy. Congrats to whichever anonymous person(s) were involved for their quick thinking. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 05:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I get the message but covering all eventualities will take a lot more than 2 domain names. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Waco explosion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/18/us-usa-explosion-texas-idUSBRE93H02A20130418 This better just be a tragic error, because this week is getting weirder and weirder.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 02:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:’Cos the Waco siege ended on April 19, 20 years ago. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::A fire in a fertilizer plant causes massive explosion. Funny that. The bit about the Waco siege in that article seemed to be tacked on at the end to be unduly sensational. [[User:AMassiveGay|AMassiveGay]] ([[User talk:AMassiveGay|talk]]) 09:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dear Whoever-is-in-charge-of-these-things: Please stop. We need a break. Can we have something nice happen this week? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::See below. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 10:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Is it okay to be amused by the fact the guy charged with sending the ricin is an Elvis impersonator? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::If it isn't, then I'll join you in being a person whose behaviour is not OK :) [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 13:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::If he writes to say he's sorry, will the letters keep coming back? [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;The White House, DC&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; Address unknown. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 14:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The highlights of the final gay marriage debate in New Zealand ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've already posted two speeches from right-wing MPs on WIGO:World (one already in [[Essay:Gay Marriage Speech by New Zealand politician‎|an essay]]), but you have to see these others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*National Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFuAGpDLb_c&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Paul Hutchison] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgX2_fCYURM&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Tau Henare]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*ACT (wingnut) Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSk9qDvWMTA&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q John Banks]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Maori Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX51b6tPa8U&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Te Ururoa Flavell]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Green Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voLw203g5MA&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Kevin Hague] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazZTPgT_bY=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Mojo Mahers]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It may be the first time I've heard a conservative mock an anti-gay politician for pandering to rednecks. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 07:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Our political system is a little more reasonable than the stereotypical &amp;quot;reality has a liberal bias, because the right is crazy.&amp;quot; I'm surprised it took this long, really. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The vote was 77-44.  To be honest I am surprised it was as close as that.[[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 09:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== BBC World Service, what the fuck are you thinking? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I have bad insomnia, and I end up listening to a lot of BBC World Service on my local NPR affiliate at all hours of the night. Last night/early this morning, they were covering the Waco disaster pretty closely, with some decent interviews with eyewitnesses, etc. And they also featured an analysis by a guy whose name I can't remember but who was identified as working for &amp;quot;[[Breitbart|Breibart]] News.&amp;quot; [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 15:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Soldier &amp;quot;Illegally&amp;quot; Disarmed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stumbled upon a guy [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r4MK3R4PI who didn't take having his guns actually taken away real well]. He set up a legal defense fund. I don't know what it says about whom that the video has more likes than dislikes and the fund went over the initial goal.--[[User:DoomTay|DoomTay]] ([[User talk:DoomTay|talk]]) 23:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd rather get all the details before I pass judgement on what happened. As far as I can see, and know about the law in texas, the Officer was in the wrong. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But I hate uppity little shits like that. They always come across as complete dicks. Police usually try to explain what they're doing but always get shouted over by these amateur legal eagles. If you haven't actually done anything wrong, just shut the fuck up and listen, then have a calm chat, and you'll depart on good terms with no harm done. It's a million times easier than screaming &amp;quot;I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!&amp;quot; and that, because frankly you probably ''don't'' know your rights, you've just cribbed them off shitty cop shows that are almost certainly wrong. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''pathetic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Oh, without a doubt, he made his own hell, but the law is the law. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Since there was no military context to this incident, I really don't see what the &amp;quot;Active Duty Soldier&amp;quot; label has to do with the price of fish.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 00:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the [[RationalWiki:To_do_list/archive2|to do archives]] there's a request for an article on [[military worship hysteria]].  We could probably write something on that. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hello all ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hate to distract from the Boston brouhaha, but I'm back. Also, how the christ fucking hell do we not already have an article on Anita Sarkeesian? I demand an explanation!--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 00:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Infowars videos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I bet you guys probably see videos ten times more laughable and ridiculous than this on a daily basis, but I seriously cannot stop laughing [http://wramsite.com/profiles/blogs/breaking-news-there-is-a-firestorm-brewing-on-infowars-at-this-ve at this video.] It's just that stupid. --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You know, at times it would be pleasing to think that our government was controlled by an all-powerful entity. At least then it would have an excuse for how badly its run at times. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 04:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The government needs to take the people who faked the moon landing and organised 9/11, and transfer them onto useful projects. Obviously those are the only people working for the government who are actually competent. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 04:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== WHAT. THE. FUCK? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is going on? I'm sitting in Sydney on a sunny Friday afternoon and my PC has (metaphorically) just exploded with news of multiple gunfights in Boston, mysterious packages being dropped on roadways, cops getting shot, suspects being detained, suspects not being detained, and just general carnage. Even allowing for misinformation, things do seem to be fairly insane at the moment. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 05:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's probably global warming. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Shooting in Boston was related to an armed robbery, if you were referring to the MIT shooting. Unfortunately, not all that uncommon for the city. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 05:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Chill out, it's not even on the front page on most news websites.  It ''could'' be related to the bombers. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 05:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's on the front page of every site I check - Sydney Morning Herald, NY Times, Guardian. Of course, the remote possibility that it is somehow connected to the bombing is probably what is driving the editors into a frenzy. As Swing says, this might actually just be a normal night in Boston. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 06:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Alright, they've got one suspect and Boston Police says there's &amp;quot;active event&amp;quot; in Watertown.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Still, for all the talk from the Internet about avoiding hysteria (mixed in with all the Alex Jones false flag conspiracies about police wanting to create a state of fear), people seriously don't listen to their own advice.  This is not the apocalypse, the city isn't collapsing. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 06:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: &amp;lt;capture&amp;gt;[http://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Mainpageright&amp;amp;curid=123765&amp;amp;diff=1047537&amp;amp;oldid=1047530 And dear old Kendoll thinks animated chickens are much more newsworthy]&amp;lt;/capture&amp;gt; [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] ([[User talk:Ghost|talk]]) 07:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Just shows that at 50 years old Ken is still a child. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 07:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::The Boston Globe is reporting a bombing suspect is in custody after the firefight at Watertown after the shooting at MIT. I think. This is bloody confusing.[[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 07:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's an online scanner which I've been listening to for the past few hours. In short, they hijacked a Mercedes SUV, drove in a pursuit into Watertown (near Boston) and then had a shootout with police. They threw a bomb at police (which failed since it didn't travel very far), but one officer was injured (either by gunshots or an IED). One suspect was injured and taken to hospital (a code black was called, suggesting he died) and the other possibly hijacked a state trooper SUV which then crashed before fleeing into the backyards of people. Some poor bloke coming home was ordered to strip naked at gunpoint, but was later released. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last couple of hours has been police setting up a perimeter, raiding a house that turned out to be empty and engineers conducting controlled detonations of a number of explosive devices. Recently there was a foot pursuit out of suburbia into a commercial zone, where they are currently using dogs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The police dispatcher confirmed the outstanding suspect is &amp;quot;white hat&amp;quot; from the bombing, and named the suspect taken to hospital as Mike Mulugeta (born in '91 or '92). The other suspect was allegedly named while I wasn't listening, I won't post his name but it was a person who went missing a couple of weeks ago around the same time some explosives were found near Boston. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 07:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This played out alot faster then I suspected it would. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 07:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Mulugeta is an Ethiopian surname, not Middle Eastern. The other guy's is (supposedly) Indian. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Videos are starting to pop up on youtube of the gunfight, also this https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325132600161234944/photo/1 --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://live.reuters.com/Event/Watertown Here's the live Reuters feed.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The other suspect is this guy [http://news.brown.edu/node/13941 Sunil Tripathi]. He had been listed as [http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2013/03/sunil missing] since March 16 this year. [[User:MeMyselfI|MeMyselfI]] ([[User talk:MeMyselfI|talk]]) 08:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have a strong gut feeling this is more a Columbine style incident than religiously/politically motivated terrorism, not really based on any evidence but just reports that both suspects were depressed etc. If people aren't listening to scanner, they're surrounding a house where scout units found a box with wires coming from it. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Do you mind posting a link to the scanner?[[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 08:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Boston local news live TV feed - http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 08:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Here's a scanner: [http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web] Don't know if it's the same one. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::^ Yups, 80,000 listening and growing... [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::How on earth do you get it to work? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::Do US law enforcement personnel actually ''have'' encrypted radio and they're just not supposed to use it for routine stuff, or is this one of those crazy situations where somebody said &amp;quot;No, no, the police have to have one arm tied behind their back so that the crime boss who funded my electoral campaign, uh, I mean, the ordinary law-abiding citizen, knows what they're doing. Recording it for evidence after the fact isn't enough&amp;quot; ?{{unsig|Tialaramex}}&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::::Presumably the FBI at least has an encrypted channel, but you never know... [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::(EC)Have you tried hard refresh/allowing javascript? I had to do that the first time I tried loading the page, as flash crashed on me. I think there are other players available if you remove the &amp;quot;/web&amp;quot; from the URL. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::Refreshing helped, thanks.  --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;-- Most of the cops changed to an encrypted channel after the perimeter was set up, this channel seems to be used to communicate between the different agencies. There's a lot of stuff which is referenced which isn't mentioned on this channel. It's very quiet for a major operation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah just keep refreshing until you get on. There is another site mirroring it but I've lost the link. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Entirely false flag situation setup by CIA to cover tracks [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] ([[User talk:Ghost|talk]]) 08:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Did I just hear them bringing in National Guard units? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:National Guard, ATF, Homeland Security and god knows how many other units have been there for ages. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::ATF and HS are law enforcement though, National Guard is one step below sending US military into an area. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::According to [http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-area-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 what I just heard on CNN], they believe they killed one of the Boston Bombing suspects while another got away. CNN also says that a third person is in custody and might be related. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 08:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::3rd person? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::Turns out to have been CNN jumping the gun. The alleged &amp;quot;3rd person&amp;quot; was the first suspect, whom they captured but who died of wounds sustained in a gun battle with the cops. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Andy headline - If more people had guns this would never happen and suspects would already by apprehended [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] ([[User talk:Ghost|talk]]) 08:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Just wait til he finds out that suspect #1 clocked up 172 hours on Call of Duty... [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 09:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar</id>
		<title>RationalWiki:Saloon bar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar"/>
				<updated>2013-04-19T08:52:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* WHAT. THE. FUCK? */ latest I've heard....&lt;/p&gt;
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== Wiki-Project: Dead Links (sticky) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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David noted that he'd been seeing dead links in the articles he was referring to on [http://rationalwiki.rationalblogs.org RationalWiki.RationalBlogs.org], so I put together a project page offsite that lists them all page by page. There may be some false positives because my tools are less forgiving that a browser. There's a raw dump of all dead links at the end of the list. [http://dev.jasonshanfield.com/rw_dead_links.html Check it out.] Please email me which pages you've cleared dead links from and I'll remove them from the list. If enough people actually do anything about this, I'll write an app that will let you check pages off the list yourselves. Surprise me. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 03:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:RW dead link wiki project Screen Shot 2013-04-17 at 10.09.29 AM.png|thumb|left|200px|Status as of 4/17/13: '''3611'''/~5000 links remain]]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;display: inline-block; border: 2px black solid; border-radius: 6px; font-size: 1.5em; padding: 1em; margin: 2em; margin-top: 4.5em; -moz-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; -webkit-box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000; box-shadow: 2px 2px 10px #000000;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[RationalWiki:2013_Dead_Links_Project|Project discussion]]&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; {{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Why is this website apologetic for Judaism? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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''Discussion moved to [[Talk:Talmud]]''&lt;br /&gt;
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== Package sent to Mississippi Senator containing ricin ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22178517 What the...?] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 23:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I worry this soon will be a common event (Assassination attempts in general, not just Ricin traps) --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 03:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Obviously a false flag operation to discredit liberals. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 06:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::For a man with a &amp;quot;solidly conservative&amp;quot; voting record, it doesn't take much Google-time to find plenty of places denouncing him as a RINO - so let's not discount right-wing nutters doing it just yet. And after all, being a majority ''leader'', he's the natural target for those too batshit crazy for the Republicans to handle. Still, this sort of thing follows most terrorist attacks as they tend to send other, completely unrelated nutters over the edge to do their own thing. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''narchist''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Looks like this might be a case where he was just the first to get his, as there are now mulitple reports, including the White House.  This does lead to the question, did any get in before?  I hope not. [[User:Ravenhull|Ravenhull]] ([[User talk:Ravenhull|talk]]) 16:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Dreamhost VPS hosting ==&lt;br /&gt;
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*http://dreamhost.com/servers/vps/&lt;br /&gt;
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Does anyone know if this is a good hosting service?  Also, I'm wondering how good their basic VPS hosting option is.  It's $15/month for unlimited storage, bandwidth, MySQL databases, and 300 MB of memory.  Since I'm still learning about managing websites (and getting better) I'm not sure how to evaluate that.  I get a decent number of readers to my websites, but not a huge number.  Would 300 MB be enough, and how big a website would that be able to work for?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 03:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:That looks like just another cheap, low-quality VPS that claims something it can't provide (unlimited storage and data) I recommend [http://linode.com Linode].&lt;br /&gt;
:With a &amp;quot;decent number&amp;quot; of visitors, especially if you're using MySQL, i doubt 300MB is going to work well. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Linode? I would say steer clear of Linode, whatever their merits otherwise, until some clarity about this recent break-in exists. Did Linode really try to bribe bad guys to say nothing to their customers about a successful break-in that compromised financial data? Did they then downplay that same break-in as only a &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot; threat to passwords? If not why does some guy have encrypted pastebins of sensitive information that seems to be from Linode?&lt;br /&gt;
::But yes, Dreamhost is very cheap, mostly hosting rather than private servers. You get what you pay for. It really does depend what &amp;quot;a decent number&amp;quot; of readers is and also what your sites do. 300MB will stretch a lot further running PHP (spit) than Java for example. The stuff about &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; is just the result of being dominated by competitive claims for an aspect of the service that costs essentially nothing per user. If the mean disk used is 450MB per user, and you advertise 2GB storage, your competitor will advertise 4GB. And why not? The average disk used will remain at 450MB anyway. For a while Dreamhost actually ran a promotion where the maximum size reduced every day or something, from a ridiculously high number to a different smaller ridiculously high number as a joke, I guess they got tired of that and just wrote unlimited. Frankly, you really won't &amp;quot;run out&amp;quot; of disk space, or bandwidth, your site will start to be annoyingly slow long before either of those happens and your users will go somewhere else.&lt;br /&gt;
::Finally, I would beware of stepping up to VPS unless you're confident you're just getting too big for virtual hosting ''and'' either you're happy to spend a bunch of time administering the private server, applying security fixes, doing housekeeping and so on, or you have the finances to hire somebody competent to do that for you. On the virtual host a lot of the security is taken care of by the people who own the host and for VPS that isn't true any more. Since you're also growing you will attract more bad guys, and you need to stay a step ahead of them. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 09:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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RationalWiki is a very happy customer of Linode. Your CPU and memory are not overcommitted. The systems basically work and basically stay up. If you sign up with [https://www.linode.com/?r=1098a79230220fa89df39ac0d29bb2bc7c8c67dc this referrer link] then the RationalWiki Foundation gets a few pennies back. I am also using Rackspace (my private stuff is camped out on a friend's server) and they offer the same sort of deals as Linode, buuuuuut they really suck - ''e.g.'' most of their IPs are in the blackhole lists, so it's very difficult to send email from your Rackspace VM. So there are actually differences between virtual server providers, and Linode are great. Questions about the recent breakin don't change my opinion much - I still heartily recommend them.&lt;br /&gt;
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Anyone selling &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; anything is lying. I know many reasonably happy Dreamhost customers, but they're all doing tiny tiny hobby things. The Linode/Rackspace tier sell you specific amounts of stuff and you know what you're buying. Sorta pricey for a private hobby server, but if you were doing anything even slightly commercial it'd be very good.&lt;br /&gt;
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As Tialaramex notes, you do need to be comfortable with being completely your own sysadmin - what you get is a Linux VM (probably Ubuntu 12.04) with nothing. If you're running a MediaWiki, you really really really have to put a Squid or Varnish in front or have it fall over every time you have the slightest traffic. What's it for? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 15:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks.  I realize that &amp;quot;unlimited&amp;quot; is really just marketing, and really what it's saying is that they're betting that you aren't going to get ahead of what they can provide.  Do you know how much traffic 1 GB of ram and 2 TB of bandwidth would last for?  If I don't go with VPS for now, I might go to Dreamhost shared hosting if they provide good shared hosting service.  Goddady has far too many problems, and their solutions are either to tell you that it's a scripting problem and they can't help, or what you want to do doesn't work on shared hosting and you need to go to VPS or dedicated.  I've also been having a problem where I can't log in or connect to MySQL databases I setup manually, and have to use sqlite or an autoinstaller, which are terrible and I hate.  I've even written an article on MediaWiki.org telling people not to use them because of their foulups and their lack of options during the installation.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The main thing that I'm doing is setting up a series of 40k wikis, in a few languages and separate wikis for merging the fanfiction with official background.  The English main wiki is the only one that is really active though.  I've made a few side websites to support it, including a coppermine image gallery and a widget and template to thumbnail pictures on the wiki as if they were uploaded to it, and a small Wordpress powered social networking site since SocialProfile didn't work out and MW isn't great for community interaction.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Out of curiosity, how long do you think this guy's wiki hosting service will last? http://tv-wiki.com/wiki/TVwiki&lt;br /&gt;
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:–[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 18:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::RW has (I'm going by vague memory here, not diving into the assorted control panels etc) something like 1800GB/month and we don't come close to using it. You'll be fine for the moment. Godaddy is shitful and Dreamhost would be better - though sometimes &amp;quot;go up a level&amp;quot; is the right answer. (But then I'm a sysadmin and a control addict, and I want to control the horizontal and the vertical. YMMV.)&lt;br /&gt;
::An email to mediawiki-l, or a post on mwusers.com, asking about low-traffic fan-stuff hosting options might be productive. Set out a precis of what you've written here.&lt;br /&gt;
::No idea how TVwiki will do. Looks like he's trying to duplicate Wikia - but Wikia have all the eyegouging ads because this stuff costs money to do right if it's at all popular - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] ([[User talk:David Gerard|talk]]) 19:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Betelnuts ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So, today I was browsing the supplement section at the store, and I came across a bottle of pet dewormer whose number one ingredient was (interestingly enough) [[List of herbs and spices#B|betelnuts]]. At first I thought it was just [[Big Placebo]] geting away with selling dangerous and ineffective products (I'm not sure what the regulations are for pet supplements), but now I'm wondering if perhaps betelnut isn't toxic/carcinogenic when given to cats or dogs. Is there any information on betelnut toxicity to pets?--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 05:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It doesn't matter if it's toxic per se. It's about dose control. The most convenient way to kill or dislodge intestinal parasites is to eat something poisonous that's poorly absorbed from the gut. The dose for the (smaller) parasite quickly exceeds its tolerance and it is killed or becomes too sick to hold on, whereupon it will get excreted. Meanwhile the dose for the much larger host doesn't exceed a safe level. The over-the-counter medicines for such parasites in humans function the same way. If you were, unaccountably, to swallow handfuls of OTC worm medicine pills at a time you could get sick, so don't do that. All that being said I won't promise Betelnut actually deworms dogs at a dose that won't harm the dog, but the principle isn't unsound. [[User:Tialaramex|Tialaramex]] ([[User talk:Tialaramex|talk]]) 08:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::General rule of thumb: if it's potentially harmful, then it's not [[Big Placebo]], because homeopathy doesn't do anything (good OR bad).  In fact, it's more likely to be medicine than an herbal remedy.  If it IS harmful, it's not medicine.  --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 16:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== One-way ticket ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Would anyone here seriously go on a [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456 one-way trip to Mars]? At my age it's something that I might consider as I've not got a lot to lose but probably wouldn't meet the fitness criteria. For a young person though it would be either an early death through radiation exposure, starvation/asphyxiation if the life-support systems went wrong, or possibly a very restricted existence as a human mole. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: *groan* Those people have been periodically on the news since last year. What did they do now, issue another press release?--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 07:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Another recruitment drive for it after no one took up the offer? [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''gnostic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 07:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::More like another fundraising drive. AFAIK, they don't suffer from a lack of candidates.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 08:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Human Anatomy and Physiology project ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I was a bit late to the topic choosing party, and thus lost my ideas to other people. Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a high school honors level anatomy and physiology research project?--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 15:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Do you go to a school run by uptight Christians in an uptight Christian county in an uptight Christian state? If so, consider doing something focused on sexuality and reproduction. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 15:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:: no, nothing like that, but thanks! If that were the case, I'd definitely do that--[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 15:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Four words: &amp;quot;Does size really matter?&amp;quot; [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:My older brother did his high school research project on &amp;quot;which is healthier for you: Twinkies or Ho Hos?&amp;quot;  {{User:Stabby the Misanthrope/sig}} 16:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::How much more is there to such a project than looking at the nutrition labels? &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 19:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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ATP reacts with NTP to form NSDAP.  You can't explain that.  I accidentally bio-chemistry and it didn't make any sense.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 05:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Should there be an IQ test to serve in Congress? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Rep. Louie Gohmert (cRetin - [[Texas]]) says that [http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/04/17/gohmert_says_islamic_terrorists_trained_to_act_hispanic.html Islamic terrorists are trained to act Hispanic.]&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Allah.... uuhhh.... taco-bar!&amp;quot; [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:We get the government we deserve. Theoretically, the voting populace should be intelligent enough to refuse to vote for ignoramuses and lunatics, but here we are. --[[User:TheLateGatsby|TheLateGatsby]] ([[User talk:TheLateGatsby|The end of the dock ]]) 16:09, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The idea of getting the government we deserve fills me with despair. [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd say that Texas has a huge education problem. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 17:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== So I was in Speech today... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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And the two stand-out speeches were &amp;quot;''Why you shouldn't try fad diets''&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;''Why the scientific evidence supports creation''&amp;quot;. Apparently 3/4 of my class is religious, 1/2 believe in creationism; and most of the speech was &amp;quot;this is why science is wrong&amp;quot;, which is quite sad because I like this guy and had hoped he might have tried to pull out a &amp;quot;why creationism is therefor right&amp;quot;. This goes along with another friends experience in Geology, where on the first day a fundy stood up and announced &amp;quot;im a christian &amp;amp; creationist&amp;quot;, and then the lecture that day was &amp;quot;Why The flood is wrong and how it led to us finding out real science&amp;quot;--&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#009900&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''Mikal''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Mikal|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#003399&amp;quot;&amp;gt;''lakiM''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; 16:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:If those people ever got as far as &amp;quot;this is therefore why creationism is right&amp;quot; we'd have considerably different experiences in these perpetual online &amp;quot;debates&amp;quot;. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''moral''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Only in it for the gold? ==&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Brian Dunning]] [http://www.skepticalabyss.com/?p=291 has plead guilty to wire fraud], &amp;quot;cookie stuffing&amp;quot; done through his websites, presumably including ''Skeptoid''.--[[User:ZooGuard|ZooGuard]] ([[User talk:ZooGuard|talk]]) 17:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I see what you did there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 17:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::What an awesome crime, if poorly executed (should have created multiple affiliates under different names) --[[User:Sethpeck|Seth Peck]] ([[User_talk:Sethpeck|talk]]) 21:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can we facepalm? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10751682 Yes we can!!!]  What's that phrase Wonkette uses - Shitmuffin?--[[File:X-Wing-icon.png|link=User:Stunteddwarf|alt=Stunteddwarf]]  [[User_Talk:stunteddwarf|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Jabba de Chops&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 19:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Peter Hanson should now, at all times, be referred to as &amp;quot;penis.&amp;quot; [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 19:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Glaswegians -- ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I will be in your fine city for a conference next month. Looking for recommendations re: cheap food, one excellent &amp;quot;splurge a little bit&amp;quot; dinner, and a pub where they fucking well know how to pour a pint of Guinness (or a decent local stout). Will also be making a day trip to Edinburgh, so same there. [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 21:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:In Edinburgh you'll need to go to The Baked Potato Shop. And stop people in the street and ask if they're Phantom Hoover. Where ''did'' he go? [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 02:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Depends on your taste, but in Edinburgh I can thoroughly recommend [http://www.caferoyaledinburgh.co.uk/ Cafe Royale] (ignore the restaurant and eat in the bar) or you could try Tom Kitchin's new gaff [http://www.scranandscallie.com/ The Scran and Scallie] for pubs - not been there for a while, but the Oxford used to be a decent boozer, or The World's End. [[User:Worm|Worm]] ([[User talk:Worm|talk]]) 10:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::In Glasgow you might want to look for the [http://www.babbitybowster.com/ Babbity Bowster, Blackfriars Street], in the east of the city centre, somewhere between George Square and Glasgow Green. They used to serve the best of the local Scottish cuisine when I lived there. Not too expensive either, back then, but really great food. However, you might need to reserve a table in advance.&lt;br /&gt;
:::For a good night out there are a few nice pubs in the eastern parts of the city centre around the Merchant Square. [http://www.kingtuts.co.uk/ King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut (272a Saint Vincent Street)] or The Scotia Bar are good for life music as is the Sharkeys on Ballater Street (in the Gorbals on other side of the Clyde), where the locals and Irish people meet to join in in folk sessions.&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you are there for a weekend do not miss the Barras and have a pint at the Barrowland Ballrooms. Check out [http://www.list.co.uk/ &amp;quot;The List&amp;quot;], also available from paperstand around the city, for Jazz concerts or whateveryouareupto.&lt;br /&gt;
:::Posher restaurants and pubs you will find around George Square, on Buchanan Street or in the West End near Glasgow Uni. Stouts, ales, lagers or Guiness are served in most of them but strictly stay away from Irn Bru... Great city all in all, most people tend not to agree. :-( - [[Special:Contributions/217.255.31.39|217.255.31.39]] ([[User talk:217.255.31.39|talk]]) 17:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Spoiler template ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does RW have any template that can be used to hide [[User:Krej/Quiz|these quiz answers]]? I know we have one for quotes in foreign languages...--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 00:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Ehrenstein made {{tl|censor}} a little while ago&amp;amp;mdash;that might work. Or are you thinking something collapseable? [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, yeah, I'd prefer a collapsible one. I can use the censor template if there isn't any, though.--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 01:46, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well there's {{tl|collapse}}, but you might want to take the code of it (rather than using the template itself) so that you can change the header from &amp;quot;this discussion has been closed&amp;quot; to something more relevant. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I've seen forums use censor tags that work the same way for spoilers.  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The collapse template works. Thanks!--[[User:Krej|Krej]]&amp;lt;small&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Krej|talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 06:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I use &amp;gt;&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;this&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;&amp;lt; (select to see). Of course it worketh not on other background colours. [[User:Scream!!|Scream!!]] ([[User talk:Scream!!|talk]]) 07:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::The collapse template does run on a script, so if someone has that disabled it won't work. Though I wonder how people operate the interent with javascript disabled these days... [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''pathetic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You go &amp;quot;hmm, why isn't this working? Oh, right.&amp;quot; Then you tell noscript to allow scripts on that page. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 23:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Vector skins ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have a prototype of a blue skin here: https://code.google.com/p/mw-vectorblue/source/browse/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not done yet, but I have the basic appearance done.  There's still work that needs to be done on the tabs at the top.  If anyone wants commit access, just send me a Google account email address.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'll work on a few other basic color variants also.  By having a separate skin, we can allow users to pick their own skin while having a separate default skin for the wiki. –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Inquisitor Sasha]] ([[User talk:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|contribs]] | [[Special:Block/Inquisitor Ehrenstein|block]])&amp;lt;span class=&amp;quot;illuminator&amp;quot;&amp;gt;                          &amp;lt;/span&amp;gt; 02:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Please put it on Github. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]][[File:100x100 anarchy symbol.svg|12px|link=User_talk:Nutty Roux]] 06:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::I'm guessing that this is better than Google Code?  –[[User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein|Nazis are bad and I don't like them]] [[File:Deadhorse.gif|35px|link=User:Inquisitor Ehrenstein]] 20:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seen these yet guys? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://bostonconspiracy.com/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 02:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Whoever did that, kudos. [[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 04:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Very classy. Congrats to whichever anonymous person(s) were involved for their quick thinking. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 05:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I get the message but covering all eventualities will take a lot more than 2 domain names. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Waco explosion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/18/us-usa-explosion-texas-idUSBRE93H02A20130418 This better just be a tragic error, because this week is getting weirder and weirder.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 02:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:’Cos the Waco siege ended on April 19, 20 years ago. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 07:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::A fire in a fertilizer plant causes massive explosion. Funny that. The bit about the Waco siege in that article seemed to be tacked on at the end to be unduly sensational. [[User:AMassiveGay|AMassiveGay]] ([[User talk:AMassiveGay|talk]]) 09:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Dear Whoever-is-in-charge-of-these-things: Please stop. We need a break. Can we have something nice happen this week? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::See below. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 10:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Is it okay to be amused by the fact the guy charged with sending the ricin is an Elvis impersonator? [[user:MDB|MDB]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:MDB|(the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear)]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::If it isn't, then I'll join you in being a person whose behaviour is not OK :) [[User:Hydrogen and Time|Hydrogen and Time]] ([[User talk:Hydrogen and Time|talk]]) 13:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::If he writes to say he's sorry, will the letters keep coming back? [[User:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:#008080&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''Sophie'''&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Sophie Wilder|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color#FF9933&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''Wilder''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 14:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::&amp;lt;s&amp;gt;The White House, DC&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; Address unknown. {{User:Genghis Khant/sigpic|}} [[User:Genghis Khant|&amp;lt;font color=Blue&amp;gt;Генгис&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]]{{User:Genghis Khant/sigtalk|}}[[File:silverbrain.png|Moderator|link=RationalWiki:Moderators|18px]] 14:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The highlights of the final gay marriage debate in New Zealand ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've already posted two speeches from right-wing MPs on WIGO:World (one already in [[Essay:Gay Marriage Speech by New Zealand politician‎|an essay]]), but you have to see these others:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*National Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFuAGpDLb_c&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Paul Hutchison] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgX2_fCYURM&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Tau Henare]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*ACT (wingnut) Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSk9qDvWMTA&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q John Banks]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Maori Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX51b6tPa8U&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Te Ururoa Flavell]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Green Party - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voLw203g5MA&amp;amp;list=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Kevin Hague] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yazZTPgT_bY=UU11JO1LSuPQKCuQyyIn8w1Q Mojo Mahers]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It may be the first time I've heard a conservative mock an anti-gay politician for pandering to rednecks. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 07:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Our political system is a little more reasonable than the stereotypical &amp;quot;reality has a liberal bias, because the right is crazy.&amp;quot; I'm surprised it took this long, really. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The vote was 77-44.  To be honest I am surprised it was as close as that.[[User:Damo|Damo]][[User_Talk:Damo|&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;Hi&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;]] 09:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== BBC World Service, what the fuck are you thinking? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I have bad insomnia, and I end up listening to a lot of BBC World Service on my local NPR affiliate at all hours of the night. Last night/early this morning, they were covering the Waco disaster pretty closely, with some decent interviews with eyewitnesses, etc. And they also featured an analysis by a guy whose name I can't remember but who was identified as working for &amp;quot;[[Breitbart|Breibart]] News.&amp;quot; [[User:PowderSmokeAndLeather|If the thunder don't get you/]][[User talk:PowderSmokeAndLeather|Then the lightning will.]] 15:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Soldier &amp;quot;Illegally&amp;quot; Disarmed ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stumbled upon a guy [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r4MK3R4PI who didn't take having his guns actually taken away real well]. He set up a legal defense fund. I don't know what it says about whom that the video has more likes than dislikes and the fund went over the initial goal.--[[User:DoomTay|DoomTay]] ([[User talk:DoomTay|talk]]) 23:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd rather get all the details before I pass judgement on what happened. As far as I can see, and know about the law in texas, the Officer was in the wrong. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::But I hate uppity little shits like that. They always come across as complete dicks. Police usually try to explain what they're doing but always get shouted over by these amateur legal eagles. If you haven't actually done anything wrong, just shut the fuck up and listen, then have a calm chat, and you'll depart on good terms with no harm done. It's a million times easier than screaming &amp;quot;I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!&amp;quot; and that, because frankly you probably ''don't'' know your rights, you've just cribbed them off shitty cop shows that are almost certainly wrong. [[File:Scarlet A.png|24px|link=User:Armondikov]][[User_Talk:Armondikov|&amp;lt;font color=#CC0033&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;''pathetic''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 23:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Oh, without a doubt, he made his own hell, but the law is the law. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 23:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Since there was no military context to this incident, I really don't see what the &amp;quot;Active Duty Soldier&amp;quot; label has to do with the price of fish.  {{User:Weaseloid/sig|}} 00:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::In the [[RationalWiki:To_do_list/archive2|to do archives]] there's a request for an article on [[military worship hysteria]].  We could probably write something on that. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 00:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hello all ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hate to distract from the Boston brouhaha, but I'm back. Also, how the christ fucking hell do we not already have an article on Anita Sarkeesian? I demand an explanation!--[[User:Hamilton|Token Conservative]] ([[User talk:Hamilton|talk]]) 00:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Infowars videos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I bet you guys probably see videos ten times more laughable and ridiculous than this on a daily basis, but I seriously cannot stop laughing [http://wramsite.com/profiles/blogs/breaking-news-there-is-a-firestorm-brewing-on-infowars-at-this-ve at this video.] It's just that stupid. --[[user:Peasant86|P3A58NT86]] 03:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:You know, at times it would be pleasing to think that our government was controlled by an all-powerful entity. At least then it would have an excuse for how badly its run at times. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 04:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The government needs to take the people who faked the moon landing and organised 9/11, and transfer them onto useful projects. Obviously those are the only people working for the government who are actually competent. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 04:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== WHAT. THE. FUCK? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What the hell is going on? I'm sitting in Sydney on a sunny Friday afternoon and my PC has (metaphorically) just exploded with news of multiple gunfights in Boston, mysterious packages being dropped on roadways, cops getting shot, suspects being detained, suspects not being detained, and just general carnage. Even allowing for misinformation, things do seem to be fairly insane at the moment. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 05:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's probably global warming. &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:gray&amp;quot;&amp;gt;(talk to a)&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; [[User:An American Nihilist|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:black&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Nihilist&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 05:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Shooting in Boston was related to an armed robbery, if you were referring to the MIT shooting. Unfortunately, not all that uncommon for the city. [[User:Captain Swing|Captain Swing]] ([[User talk:Captain Swing|bringer of nachos]]) 05:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Chill out, it's not even on the front page on most news websites.  It ''could'' be related to the bombers. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 05:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::It's on the front page of every site I check - Sydney Morning Herald, NY Times, Guardian. Of course, the remote possibility that it is somehow connected to the bombing is probably what is driving the editors into a frenzy. As Swing says, this might actually just be a normal night in Boston. [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 06:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Alright, they've got one suspect and Boston Police says there's &amp;quot;active event&amp;quot; in Watertown.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Still, for all the talk from the Internet about avoiding hysteria (mixed in with all the Alex Jones false flag conspiracies about police wanting to create a state of fear), people seriously don't listen to their own advice.  This is not the apocalypse, the city isn't collapsing. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 06:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: &amp;lt;capture&amp;gt;[http://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Mainpageright&amp;amp;curid=123765&amp;amp;diff=1047537&amp;amp;oldid=1047530 And dear old Kendoll thinks animated chickens are much more newsworthy]&amp;lt;/capture&amp;gt; [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] ([[User talk:Ghost|talk]]) 07:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Just shows that at 50 years old Ken is still a child. [[User:Steven Kavanagh|Steven Kavanagh]] ([[User talk:Steven Kavanagh|talk]]) 07:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::The Boston Globe is reporting a bombing suspect is in custody after the firefight at Watertown after the shooting at MIT. I think. This is bloody confusing.[[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 07:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's an online scanner which I've been listening to for the past few hours. In short, they hijacked a Mercedes SUV, drove in a pursuit into Watertown (near Boston) and then had a shootout with police. They threw a bomb at police (which failed since it didn't travel very far), but one officer was injured (either by gunshots or an IED). One suspect was injured and taken to hospital (a code black was called, suggesting he died) and the other possibly hijacked a state trooper SUV which then crashed before fleeing into the backyards of people. Some poor bloke coming home was ordered to strip naked at gunpoint, but was later released. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last couple of hours has been police setting up a perimeter, raiding a house that turned out to be empty and engineers conducting controlled detonations of a number of explosive devices. Recently there was a foot pursuit out of suburbia into a commercial zone, where they are currently using dogs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The police dispatcher confirmed the outstanding suspect is &amp;quot;white hat&amp;quot; from the bombing, and named the suspect taken to hospital as Mike Mulugeta (born in '91 or '92). The other suspect was allegedly named while I wasn't listening, I won't post his name but it was a person who went missing a couple of weeks ago around the same time some explosives were found near Boston. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 07:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This played out alot faster then I suspected it would. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 07:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:Mulugeta is an Ethiopian surname, not Middle Eastern. The other guy's is (supposedly) Indian. [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Videos are starting to pop up on youtube of the gunfight, also this https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325132600161234944/photo/1 --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
[http://live.reuters.com/Event/Watertown Here's the live Reuters feed.] [[User:Osaka Sun|Osaka Sun]] ([[User talk:Osaka Sun|talk]]) 08:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::The other suspect is this guy [http://news.brown.edu/node/13941 Sunil Tripathi]. He had been listed as [http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2013/03/sunil missing] since March 16 this year. [[User:MeMyselfI|MeMyselfI]] ([[User talk:MeMyselfI|talk]]) 08:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I have a strong gut feeling this is more a Columbine style incident than religiously/politically motivated terrorism, not really based on any evidence but just reports that both suspects were depressed etc. If people aren't listening to scanner, they're surrounding a house where scout units found a box with wires coming from it. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Do you mind posting a link to the scanner?[[User:Man of Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:white&amp;quot;&amp;gt;The Invisible Man&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Man_of_Perspective|&amp;lt;span style=&amp;quot;color:silver&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup style=&amp;quot;font-style:italic&amp;quot;&amp;gt;I spoke to Him&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/span&amp;gt;]] 08:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Boston local news live TV feed - http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive [[User:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;navy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;'''VOX'''&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]][[User_talk:Voxhumana|&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;teal&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;'''HUMANA'''&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;]] 08:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Here's a scanner: [http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web] Don't know if it's the same one. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::^ Yups, 80,000 listening and growing... [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::How on earth do you get it to work? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::Do US law enforcement personnel actually ''have'' encrypted radio and they're just not supposed to use it for routine stuff, or is this one of those crazy situations where somebody said &amp;quot;No, no, the police have to have one arm tied behind their back so that the crime boss who funded my electoral campaign, uh, I mean, the ordinary law-abiding citizen, knows what they're doing. Recording it for evidence after the fact isn't enough&amp;quot; ?{{unsig|Tialaramex}}&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::::Presumably the FBI at least has an encrypted channel, but you never know... [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::::(EC)Have you tried hard refresh/allowing javascript? I had to do that the first time I tried loading the page, as flash crashed on me. I think there are other players available if you remove the &amp;quot;/web&amp;quot; from the URL. [[User:PeterL|Peter]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PeterL|mqzp]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 08:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::::Refreshing helped, thanks.  --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;-- Most of the cops changed to an encrypted channel after the perimeter was set up, this channel seems to be used to communicate between the different agencies. There's a lot of stuff which is referenced which isn't mentioned on this channel. It's very quiet for a major operation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah just keep refreshing until you get on. There is another site mirroring it but I've lost the link. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Entirely false flag situation setup by CIA to cover tracks [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] ([[User talk:Ghost|talk]]) 08:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
Did I just hear them bringing in National Guard units? --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:National Guard, ATF, Homeland Security and god knows how many other units have been there for ages. [[User:RyanC|RyanC]] ([[User talk:RyanC|talk]]) 08:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::ATF and HS are law enforcement though, National Guard is one step below sending US military into an area. --[[User:Revolverman|Revolverman]] ([[User talk:Revolverman|talk]]) 08:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::According to [http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-area-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 what I just heard on CNN], they believe they killed one of the Boston Bombing suspects while another got away. CNN also says that a third person is in custody and might be related. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 08:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Tyrannis</id>
		<title>User talk:Tyrannis</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Tyrannis"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T10:22:12Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: At user's personal request.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{retired}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Old-timey Archive : [[user talk:Tyrannis/archive1|1]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{#useliquidthreads:1}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Tyrannis</id>
		<title>User:Tyrannis</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Tyrannis"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T10:21:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: One last thing before I go to bed..... At the user's personal request.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{retired}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, I do user renames, MW editing, category nonsense, template nonsense, ref finding, and other useless stuff.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have heard of my other services it's best to PM me.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Rooofer</id>
		<title>User talk:Rooofer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Rooofer"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T09:18:19Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Created page with &amp;quot;{{welcome}}  Hello there. Please read up on what a RationalWiki article ''is'' and what it ''is not.'' Thank you, and enjoy your stay. ~~~~&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{welcome}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hello there. Please read up on what a RationalWiki article ''is'' and what it ''is not.'' Thank you, and enjoy your stay. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Roofer</id>
		<title>Talk:Roofer</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Roofer"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T09:16:36Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: Created page with &amp;quot;Look, I don't like chomping on new guys, but I don't think we need an article about roofers, let alone one that's poorly written and that tells us how to write a Wiki page. At...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Look, I don't like chomping on new guys, but I don't think we need an article about roofers, let alone one that's poorly written and that tells us how to write a Wiki page. At the very least, that's what our help pages are for. [[User:Reckless Noise Symphony|Reckless Noise Symphony]] ([[User talk:Reckless Noise Symphony|talk]]) 09:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate</id>
		<title>Hope not Hate</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T07:59:29Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* Counter-Jihad report */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{UKpolitics}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Hope not Hate''' (identified on official materials, but pretty much nowhere else, as '''HOPE not hate''') is a British anti-[[fascist]] campaign emphasizing the [[racism]] espoused by said fascists. It was originally started by the anti-fascist magazine ''Searchlight'' and is now chiefly supported by various British labor unions.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/about-us/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/tufs/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/index.php/content/bnp-wins-seats/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It is fronted by Nick Lowles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Activities==&lt;br /&gt;
The campaign's activities include bus tours&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.trinitymirror.com/2009/05/third-successive-year-for-mirrors-hope-not-hate-tour.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and a petition to [[BNP]] leader Nick Griffin.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://web.archive.org/web/20091117174111/http://notinmyname.tv/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Its website runs two blogs — one by Nick Lowles, the other by &amp;quot;the Insider&amp;quot; — that provide regular news on far-right movements.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/nick&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Criticism==&lt;br /&gt;
HnH has been accused by some critics of ignoring [[Islamic]] extremism.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/ezra-levant-just-like-anders-breivik.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; However, the campaign's site has targeted Muslim fundamentalist [[Haitham al-Haddad]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1579/uninvited&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; denounced [[honour killings]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1502/the-shame-of-honour-attacks&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and includes [[al-Muhajiroun]] alongside the BNP, EDL and others in its profiles of hate groups.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1659/appreciate-the-grievance-deal-with-the-extrem&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/am/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Though HnH, being an anti-fascist campaign, understandably focuses primarily on the hate espoused by fascists while letting other hate off comparatively easy, at least Hope not Hate does not appear to be actively ''aligning'' itself with Islamists - unlike [[Unite Against Fascism]])&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2012/02/25/report-unite-against-fascism-conference-2012&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/uaf-letter/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The campaign's opposition to al-Haddad, incidentally, has resulted in its condemnation by Muslim nut Laura Stuart and the ranting saxophonist [[Gilad Atzmon]] (the latter branding it &amp;quot;a Zionist outlet&amp;quot;).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.deliberation.info/hope-not-hate-reveals-islamophobia/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Counter-Jihad report==&lt;br /&gt;
In April 2012, tying in with the trial of [[Anders Behring Breivik]], HnH released &amp;lt;s&amp;gt;its official shit-list&amp;lt;/s&amp;gt; a report on what it termed the &amp;quot;Counter-Jihad movement&amp;quot;. The report describes the Counter-Jihad movement as &amp;quot;the new face of the far right in Europe and North America&amp;quot;, with an ideology defined by the treatment of all Muslims as extremists and the belief that, due to immigration and [[multiculturalism]], the West is in danger of being taken over by Islam. The report lists hundreds of individuals and organisations involved in the alleged movement; according to HnH, each of them is partially responsible for Breivik's killing spree ([[guilt by association]], perhaps).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The list is broken up by country; amongst the names included are the [[American Family Association]]; [[Pamela Geller]] and her Atlas Shrugs blog; [[WorldNetDaily]];&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/country/USA&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the BNP; [[Combined Ex Forces]]; [[Stephen Lennon]] and his English Defence League; [[March for England]]; and [[Alan Lake]].&amp;lt;ref name=jihaduk&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/country/UK&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The resulting overview tends to veer from well-researched information to daft hyperbole: [[English Shieldwall]], a tiny nationalist organisation that currently appears to consist of one guy and his mates ranting on a Facebook page, is described as &amp;quot;shadowy&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=jihaduk/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although taken at face value by news services&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/16/11230654-report-threat-from-anti-jihadist-extremists-grows?chromedomain=usnews&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/14/breivik-trial-norway-mass-murderer&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the report has been criticised. Blogger &amp;quot;Happy Propagandist&amp;quot; dismissed it as &amp;quot;complete nonsense,&amp;quot; in particular objecting to the inclusion of three Christian charities: the Christian Concern, the Christian Legal Centre and the Barnabus Fund. &amp;quot;Unfortunately, this report seems more like a knee-jerk list conflating hooligan groups, anti-Islamists, conservatives, and those who are simply opposed to immigration or are concerned about the persecution of non-Muslims&amp;quot;, concludes the post.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The blog has since become defunct.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It should be noted that, in fact, critics of Islam who are generally classed as left-of-centre (such as [[Richard Dawkins]], [[Taslima Nasrin]] or [[One Law for All]]) are absent from the list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Writing for FrontPage Magazine, Bruce Bawer condemned HnH for using Breivik's atrocity as an excuse to demonise criticism of Islam,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/20/the-scandalous-lies-of-hope-not-hate/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; as did a press release from the International Civil Liberties Alliance&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.libertiesalliance.org/2012/04/16/michael-gove-celsius-77-and-the-mainstreaming-of-the-counter-jihad/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (one of the organisations named in the report&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/organisations/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Controversial entries===&lt;br /&gt;
As noted above, the inclusion of the Barnabas Fund, a charity for minority Christians in majority Muslim countries, resulted in objections; the organisation was later removed from the list. Similarly, Roger Scruton's entry caused some to raise their eyebrows.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;https://twitter.com/#!/PhilosophyExp/status/193025067783950338&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://twitter.com/#!/S8mB/status/191879066075398144&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Family Security Matters]] contributor Adrian Morgan, one of the individuals listed in the report's section on Norway,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/country/Norway#id-74&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; was not happy. &amp;quot;[Nick Lowles'] craven exploitation of the deaths of 77 innocent Norwegians... blaming all within that list as 'responsible' for those deaths... is what enrages me&amp;quot;, he wrote, also condemning the list's &amp;quot;cheap yoking of people who are serious and sincere in their desire to see an end to Islamist influence in Western societies with real racists, neo-Nazis and xenophobes.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;I do not condemn the EDL for being upset,&amp;quot; he clarified, &amp;quot;I only condemn their methods.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/File:Capture_f515751fe1687b86f157cffb98237f5b922ad478.png] See his comment posted on 29 April 2012, 8:57 am.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Blogger and Hope not Hate supporter Sarah AB also objected to Morgan's inclusion on the list, linking to the section on him and remarking &amp;quot;HnH may occasionally perhaps make one go – HuH?&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://hurryupharry.org/2012/04/27/haddad-invited-to-speak-to-sixth-formers/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ Hope not Hate website]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Racism]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeschooling</id>
		<title>Homeschooling</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeschooling"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T07:54:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* The Badman Review (England &amp;amp; Wales) */ dead link murder&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Homeschooling''' is just what it sounds like – [[children]] are schooled at home, usually by their parents.  Sometimes parents from two or more families will share the duties of schooling their children.  This is done to access the strengths of each parent as a teacher – one may be a [[mathematics]] whiz, another may be an [[English]] major, and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Collective homeschooling and the fight against government regulation and oversight==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschool classes aren't necessarily just one child being schooled at home by their parents. For instance, [[Andrew Schlafly]], the son of anti-feminist political activist [[Phyllis Schlafly]], has around 58 in his homeschooled [[history]] class. If you are wondering how one man could accumulate 58 &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; students, the answer goes by the term '''collective homeschooling'''.  That is, students gather at the home of a parent/teacher for class.  Usually, such people are defined as private tutors - a job title that requires a teacher's certificate in most states.  Homeschool advocates constantly fight against all such [[government]] efforts to regulate homeschooling, including:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Accreditation]] of all homeschool programs.&lt;br /&gt;
* Certification of parent/teachers, including those who teach other people's children.&lt;br /&gt;
* Oversight of curricula and teaching materials.&lt;br /&gt;
* Requirements that any home or other building used for collective homeschooling carry extra insurance to reflect its use as a school facility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The teachers==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most common model for homeschooling requires one parent (guess which one) to stay home with the kids and teach them from books specifically designed for homeschooling. This does mean that &amp;quot;home school parents are, by definition, more heavily involved in their children's [[education]] [than] [[Public education|public]] or [[Public school#British public schools|private school]] parents. Home schools can easily pace and adapt their curriculum; public and private schools typically have a mandated scope and sequence.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=rudner /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschooling parent/teachers are not held to the same standards as public school teachers in most areas (for example [[New Jersey]]).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp State Laws], HSLDA - Advocates for Homeschooling&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  While many have college degrees, those degrees may lack any relevance to a child's school curriculum.  (Business administration, [[Theology]], Basket-weaving, for example.)  But, (this, in the [[United States|USA]] does vary from [[state]]-to-state,) as long as their children/students pass standardized tests, few people raise questions about this disparity. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this, studies in the USA (which mention in their very abstract that they are not controlled experiments, and also note that homeschooling ''parents'' tend to be far more affluent than average) demonstrate that &amp;quot;at every grade level, the mean performance of home school students whose parents do not have a college degree is still much higher than the mean performance of students taught in public schools&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;rudner&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Rudner, Lawrence M., Ph.D. [http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/ &amp;quot;The Scholastic Achievement and Demographic Characteristics of Home School Students in 1998&amp;quot;]. Education Policy Analysis Archives. Volume 7 Number 8 March 23, 1999. ISSN 1068-2341 Retrieved 17 March 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In fact, &amp;quot;having at least one parent who is a certified teacher appears to have no significant effect on the achievement levels of home schooled students. The test scores of students whose parents had ever held a teaching certificate were only three percentile points higher than those whose parents had not—in the 88th percentile versus the 85th percentile.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=basham /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The homeschool industry==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Tinfoil hat]]ters — those who question homeschooling's effectiveness — claim that &amp;quot;the homeschooling industry has such a lock on the information about homeschooling that it is difficult to find anything but positive feedback.  (After reading some of it, you might think &amp;quot;[[propaganda]]&amp;quot; is more accurate.)  If you enter the word &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; into a search engine, followed by words like &amp;quot;[[myth]]s,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;horror stories,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;cons,&amp;quot; etc., you will be greeted by hundreds of links ''dispelling'' myths, horror stories and cons as lies.  Websites with legitimate stories about the negatives of homeschooling are almost impossible to find.  This lack of critical information has raised questions among those seeking information about homeschooling.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Do any good websites describe the cons of homeschooling? ''WikiAnswers: The Q&amp;amp;A Community'' [http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_any_good_websites_describe_the_cons_of_homeschooling]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot; However, one could simply conclude that homeschooling is not a bad as some think it might be. (See [[Occam's razor]].)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Child abuse and homeschooling==&lt;br /&gt;
Education is '''not''' a welfare issue and the two areas should not be confused: home education is an education matter. Despite this, there is a long history of attempts to conflate home education and child abuse, with swathes of propaganda suggesting that education otherwise than at school is a high risk area for children. Detractors go to great lengths to find &amp;quot;[[proof]]&amp;quot; that a child not in a school is a child at severe risk of undetected abuse. In 2009, for example, Graham Badman, author of the Elective Home Education Review, released a statement to the press including the claim that the overall number of children &amp;quot;known to children's social care in some local authorities is disproportionately high relative to the size of [the] home education population.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/5506542/Home-education-clampdown-an-infringement-of-civil-liberties.html Home education clampdown 'an infringement of civil liberties'] 12 June 2009. The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 28 October 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Four months later, under questioning at the House of Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee short inquiry into the review, he was forced to concede that a disproportionate number of children in home education had actually left the mainstream system because they had special educational needs, and it was for this reason that they were &amp;quot;known&amp;quot; to the education and social care system, not because of any danger to them.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Response to question from Paul Holmes (Lib Dem, Chesterfield) about the statistics regarding the numbers of home educated children 'known to social care'&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In March 2004, Jenny Price, general secretary of the Association of Education Welfare Managers, lobbied the then Children's Minister, Margaret Hodge, for greater powers to enter the homes of home educators. She alleged that &amp;quot;Some parents claim they are educating their children at home to hide the fact they are abusing them&amp;quot; and cited one case of a child being removed from school &amp;quot;then subjected to child abuse&amp;quot;. It later emerged that she was talking [[bullshit]]e, and the child had in fact died from natural causes.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3536000/3536629.stm New moves over home education]. BBC News. Retrieved 28 October 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Her subsequent apology (&amp;quot;We ... would want to withdraw that particular statement and at the same time apologise for whatever distress we may have caused&amp;quot;) received relatively little [[media]] coverage compared to the dramatic headlines (&amp;quot;Home education child abuse fears&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;Reform targets child abuse deaths&amp;quot;) which had accompanied the initial allegations. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===United States===&lt;br /&gt;
In 2004, the ''Akron Beacon-Journal'' published a report on child abuse and homeschooling.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Home Schoolers May Be No Safer in Their Homes Than Other Children&amp;quot; ''Arizona State University Archives'' [http://search.asu.edu/search?q=cache:OVeQpnVglesJ:epsl.asu.edu/epru/articles/EPRU-0503-104-OWI.pdf+epru-0503-104-owi&amp;amp;client=asu_frontend&amp;amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;amp;proxystylesheet=asu_frontend&amp;amp;output=xml_no_dtd&amp;amp;access=p&amp;amp;oe=UTF-8]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Among their findings:&lt;br /&gt;
*Public school buildings are still among the safest places for children, even after factoring in bullying and the (very) rare Columbine-style shooting;&lt;br /&gt;
*The U.S. Department of Justice (USDoJ) keeps no statistics on child abuse against homeschooled students;&lt;br /&gt;
*Because homeschooled children have no access to adults outside their parents' circle of friends, abuse can occur for years without ever being investigated by law enforcement.&lt;br /&gt;
The ''Beacon-Journal'''s article listed several cases involving parents who, at least in part, homeschooled their children as a means to hide ongoing neglect, abuse and sexual molestation from the community at large.  Naturally, tinfoil hatters—those who have a (cough!) vested interest in short-circuiting any analysis of homeschooling—got their knickers in a bunch over the report, even though they substantiated the theme of the report by making uncorroborated statements like this:  {{cquote|Although we do not have statistics demonstrating how many of these (estimated 903,000 children abused in the U.S. in 2001) were educated at home, it's safe to assume that the overwhelming majority attended public school . . .&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Response to ''Akron Beacon Journal'' Homeschool Series&amp;quot; ''HSLDA website'' [http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200411/200411240.asp]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}  It is true that the number of public school students is greater than the combined number of private school and homeschooled students.  Therefore, logically, the number of public school students abused at home should outnumber those private school students and homeschooled students who are abused at home.  But, that was not the point of the article.  This is:  While the USDoJ keeps records on the abuse of public and private school students, ''it has no mechanism to investigate the abuse of homeschooled children.''  Likewise, the USDoJ ''does not gather records on, nor does it calculate the statistics of, the abuse of homeschooled children.''  Therefore, there is no way to know if homeschooled children are abused at a higher percentage and/or at a greater severity than public and private school children.  Furthermore, if a homeschooled child is abused, ''there is no established mechanism by which that child can seek help.'' This does not imply a problem with homeschooling, but shows a problem with the way society and the law handle it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===England and Wales===&lt;br /&gt;
The most recent figures released under Freedom of Information requests (2009) demonstrated that a total of 44 children from home school families were the subject of Child Care Plans, representing 0.29% of home schooled children. The figure for '''all''' children was 142,459, or 1.30%.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rbrk5-GEdrUdcmfi670Mihg&amp;amp;gid=2 Abuse in Elective Home Education].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For thousands of years, the vast majority of students were educated at home, mostly by one or both parents.  Education during this time was primarily vocational or occupational, with males being directed into apprenticeships and trades and females being ushered primarily into more domestic skill sets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschooling in the U.S. dates back to the original colonies.  During the winter months when fields were fallow, parents occupied their children's time by teaching them to read and count.  As communities grew, schools with professional teachers opened; notably in Massachusetts, where a 1647 law required each municipality to support a school. By the end of [[World War II]], homeschooling was limited primarily to rural areas.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;From the twenties through the seventies homeschooling was a relatively underground, usually rural, phenomenon.&amp;quot; [http://www.hsc.org/a-class-of-their-own.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A 2001 U.S. Census report showed that transport was a primary reason for homeschooling in only 1.9% of cases. The most important reason according to the survey is a [[belief]] that the child will receive a better education at home (over 50% of respondents), with [[Religion|religious]] reasons being mentioned in 33% of cases.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0053/twps0053.html Home Schooling in the United States: Trends and Characteristics], Kurt J. Bauman, U.S. Census Bureau&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Modern homeschooling==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One view (i.e. &amp;quot;[[snark]]&amp;quot;) of today's homeschooling movement is that it grew out of exaggerated or false concerns that anti-public education activists have planted in the minds of parents.  Among these are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Public schools (often called &amp;quot;government schools&amp;quot;) are dangerous. Seriously, you've never heard of a homeschool-shooting, have you?&lt;br /&gt;
* Private schools are too expensive and/or unavailable locally.&lt;br /&gt;
* All public schools - and some private schools - are really hotbeds of anti-Americanism where [[liberal]]s [[Brainwashing|brainwash]] students into being [[Marxism|Marxist]] [[robot]]s.&lt;br /&gt;
* All public schools - and some private schools - are really hotbeds of [[imperialism]], where [[Fascism|fascists]] brainwash students into being good little proles, primarily by ringing bells to start and stop work.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.swaraj.org/shikshantar/unschooling_camy.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Girls who go to public school are more likely to get [[Pregnancy|pregnant]] and have [[abortion]]s. &lt;br /&gt;
* Public school third graders are taught to put [[condom]]s on cucumbers - leading directly to the Great American Cucumber Shortage of 1993 -96.&lt;br /&gt;
* Public schools turn out [[Ignorance|ignorant]] and illiterate dunderheads.  (Unlike the kids who helped develop [[Conservapedia]]!)&lt;br /&gt;
* A lot of the kids that go to public school—well, you know, they're just (whispers) not the [[Republican Party|right type]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Regardless of such conjecture, a 1990 Canadian survey found that partisan allegiance was evenly divided among the major political parties (''see Basham et al'')&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Public schools deliberately lobotomize kids by teaching them to read using the [[Phonics - Whole Language debate|whole language method]] instead of phonics&lt;br /&gt;
* Miscellaneous scare stories based on isolated incidents, such as public school children being given medical examinations, Ritalin, or [[fluoride]] treatments without their parents' knowledge, quack pop-psychology and social engineering methods ([[Large group awareness training|like these]]) brought into the classroom, mock-terrorism drills during which a SWAT team came into the school to scare the kids, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
* Public schools require that children be vaccinated, and [[vaccine hysteria|vaccines scare some people]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Vaccination is not compulsory in Britain.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Public school life is too rigidly structured. (And so is the Golden Gate Bridge, which should be rebuilt using lime Jell-O.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sometimes reasons for homeschooling can be even more irrational.  In his opening lecture on American history, [[Andrew Schlafly]] touches on the subject briefly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Ask yourself: why would Europeans want to go there [America]? . . .  Search for gold. Convert the natives to Christianity. Conquer the natives. Obtain freedom. Why do your parents homeschool? '''For some of the same reasons'''.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[cp:American_History_Lecture_One&amp;amp;oldid=495265#Why America?|Conservapedia: American History Lecture One]].  Emphasis added by RationalWiki.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other reasons for homeschooling==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reasons enumerated by fringe figures like Schlafly aren't the only motivations for home education.  Some parents may pursue careers in which they are rarely settled in one location, such as career military officers and touring musicians, and find homeschooling their children to be more practical than enrolling them permanently in a school.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other cases the reasons are determined by the interests or abilities of the child.  For example, parents who believe their child to be especially gifted, or wish them to be, may feel that the child could not reach their full potential in a public (or even private) school, and instead educate them, often intensively, at home.  Some are &amp;quot;child prodigies&amp;quot; with a particular skill, such as musicianship or athletics.  These inevitably take a lot of practise time, and cannot easily fit around a school schedule.  Sometimes these children, or their parents, have little interest in pursuing other educational studies.  Similarly, a child may be more interested in learning a craft than in pursuing an academic education.  However, if the majority of homeschooling time is given over to a particular subject, the child may miss out on a balanced general education, which could disadvantage them later in life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a few cases, a student's reasons for being homeschooled may relate to negative or traumatic experiences in a school environment, such as bullying or even assault, leaving them feeling that they are unable to return to school.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In England and [[Wales]], the Department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF) lists the following common grounds for parents to choose homeschooling (&amp;quot;elective home education&amp;quot;, in DCSF parlance):&lt;br /&gt;
*Distance or access to a local school &lt;br /&gt;
*Religious or [[Culture|cultural]] beliefs&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Philosophy|Philosophical]] or ideological views &lt;br /&gt;
*Dissatisfaction with the system &lt;br /&gt;
*Bullying in school&lt;br /&gt;
*As a short term intervention for a particular reason &lt;br /&gt;
*A child’s unwillingness or inability to go to school &lt;br /&gt;
*Special educational needs &lt;br /&gt;
*Parents’ desire for a closer relationship with their children&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One recent study finds that &amp;quot;children who receive structured home-schooling significantly outperform public school children across a range of subject.&amp;quot; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.concordia.ca/now/newsmakers/beyond-the-headlines/high-marks-for-home-schooling/ &amp;quot;High marks for home-schooling.&amp;quot; Concordia University, Montreal, Canada]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Homeskool kid makes good!==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschooled kids often win contests such as spelling bees and math contests.  However, it's unclear how typical these few prize winners are among the total population of homeschooled students.  For instance, because many of today's homeschooling materials are [[bible]]-centric &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Many homeschooling resource websites have areas dedicated to bible studies. Four such examples [http://www.sonlight.com/bible.html] [http://www.homeschoolingbooks.com/pages/groupresults.asp?TopicGroup=Biblical%20Studies] [http://www.homeschoolingsupply.com/cbs/bible-studies-1.htm]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; , it's a sure bet that most homeschool [[science]] education lacks any real value.  The [[Biology]] Blue Ribbon at the science fair isn't likely to go to a child who makes a diorama of [[Adam]] riding a [[dinosaur]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also quite possible that these shining examples of success come from other groups besides [[Fundamentalism|fundamentalist]] [[Christianity|Christians]] who homeschool: those hippy types who don't want their children indoctrinated by &amp;quot;the establishment&amp;quot; to become [[Capitalism|capitalist]] tools, or parents who feel that they can provide better facilities for their gifted or otherwise special-needs children. For example, disorders on the [[autism]] spectrum are sometimes associated with increased ability with mathematics or [[memory]], the skills tested in math and spelling competitions. Since children with autism often have difficulty with social situations, their parents may homeschool them in order to give them a good education without forcing them into the often difficult social environment of a public school, while their natural abilities lead them to win these competitions. Also, there is much less of a need for a balanced education in for a homeschooled child, so they can focus an inordinate amount of time on something of little actual educational value, such as learning how to spell obscure words.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While &amp;quot;popular&amp;quot; (read: &amp;quot;unfounded&amp;quot;) opinion assumes that children need long periods of interaction with a large group of peers to acquire social skills, studies indicate that extensive peer contact at an early age causes peer dependency and low self-image. Critics of home education often point out that home schooled children are likely to lack basic social skills. Current research is proving just the opposite to be true. In 1993, J. Gary Knowles, University of Michigan assistant [[professor]] of education, released a study of homeschooled graduates which demonstrated that children educated at home didn't grow up to become social misfits. Home educated adults in this study appeared stable, independent members of society, participating in [[Democracy|democratic]] communities.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Knowles, J. Gary &amp;quot;Homeschooling and socialisation&amp;quot; (1993) Michigan: University of Michigan School of Education Study Press Release.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  A more recent study, &amp;quot;Home Schooling: From Extreme to the Mainstream&amp;quot; released by the Fraser Institute, concluded that homeschooled children are both [[academic]]ally and socially advanced, more so than their public and private schooled peers. It also showed that homeschooled children, as a group, are happy, well-adjusted, thoughtful, mature, and sociable.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;basham&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Patrick Basham, John Merrifield, and Claudia R. Hepburn. [http://www.netzwerk-bildungsfreiheit.de/pdf/From_the_extreme_to_the_mainstream.pdf &amp;quot;Home Schooling: From the Extreme to the Mainstream&amp;quot;]. Fraser Institute (2001). ISSN 1707-2395&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In yet another study, written by [[Sociology|sociologists]] Christian Smith and David Sikkink, the conclusion was that homeschooling families are more enmeshed in their communities than public school families, and they are more likely to have voted in the previous five years, participate in community activities, and go to their local library.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Smith, Christian and Sikkink, David. [http://catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0031.html &amp;quot;Is Private Schooling Privatizing?&amp;quot;] (1999) First Things 92 (April): 16-20. Online reprint. Retrieved 17 March 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A former homeschooling mentor recently heard from a former student of his who is now completing her Ph.D. in Philosophy at the University of Florida.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;That would be [[user:Carptrash|me]], and of course, Maranatha.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The Badman Review (England &amp;amp; Wales)==&lt;br /&gt;
In January 2009 the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families, Ed Balls commissioned The Elective Home Education Review, led by Graham &amp;quot;Tough On Children - Tough On The Causes Of Children&amp;quot; Badman, former Director of Children’s Services at Kent County Council. Its remit was to determine:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Whether local authorities and other public agencies were able to effectively discharge their duties and responsibilities for safeguarding and ensuring a suitable education for all children.&lt;br /&gt;
*Whether home educating parents were receiving the support and advice they wanted to ensure they provide a good, balanced education for their children.&lt;br /&gt;
*Whether there was evidence to support claims that home education could be used as a cover for child abuse such as neglect, forced marriage, sexual exploitation or domestic servitude.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The review report was issued on 11 June 2009 and Badman was forced to admit: &amp;quot;I can find no evidence that elective home education is a particular factor in the removal of children to forced marriage, servitude or trafficking or for inappropriate abusive activities... This view is supported by the Association of Chief Police Officers.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Section 8.14&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this glaring and disappointing absence of evidence, Badman still made '''twenty-eight''' recommendations for interventions into home education, many of which will require changes to primary legislation. Without preparing any response and without conducting a Regulatory Impact Assessment the government immediately accepted the recommendations on the day of publication.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These recommendations include:&lt;br /&gt;
*compulsory annual registration&lt;br /&gt;
*compulsory and automatic right of access to homes (that is, the &amp;quot;school&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
*compulsory production of an annual statement of educational approach against which the child's &amp;quot;performance&amp;quot; will be assessed&lt;br /&gt;
*enforcement of annual testing of children to prove their attainments and progress to professionals&lt;br /&gt;
*a redefining of &amp;quot;suitable&amp;quot; education highlighting the known desire of local education authorities and the party currently in power to dictate the form, content and outcomes of education provided&lt;br /&gt;
*routine interviews with children separated from parents to ascertain whether they are safe and well in the care of their parents&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will legally empower the state to have access to private homes, to search for evidence of a crime with neither a warrant nor reasonable cause -  more power than even the police force currently possess. This will mean that home educated children will have fewer rights than juvenile offenders who, under the &amp;quot;Beijing Rules&amp;quot;, are entitled to have a parent or guardian present when interviewed.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Administration of Juvenile Justice (&amp;quot;The Beijing Rules&amp;quot;) [http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/40/a40r033.htm].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Action for Home Education response===&lt;br /&gt;
Action for Home Education, an action group of home educating parents in England and Wales whose purpose is to defend and advance home education rights and liberties, released the following response &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://ahed.pbworks.com/BriefingPaperHEReview BriefingPaperHEReview, Action for Home Education website] - in the section headed &amp;quot;AHEd CONCERNS&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quoteBox|These proposed changes would have profound implications for all families, if put into law, and for this reason we do not see the proposed changes as a home education issue only. These proposed changes affect the civil liberties of all citizens and families in England.&lt;br /&gt;
*These changes would make invasive and potentially damaging investigations into innocent families, including interrogation of children, without just or reasonable cause for suspicion, a routine matter.&lt;br /&gt;
*These changes would have a tragic cost to those children who are actually in need of services or intervention but who would be buried under the sheer volume of bureaucracy and routine investigations at a time when social services are already breaking down and under the added pressure of the current economic climate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We question how long it will be before the right of entry to investigate families who are causing no concern, just in case of wrong doing, will be extended from a discriminatory practice against those families taking up a lawful but minority option, to other families such as those with children under five who do not attend schools or those whose children are attending schools in the private sector and are not therefore under state surveillance?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How long would it be before the right of entry to homes, coupled with forced interview of children separated from parents where no crime against them is suspected, will be imposed on all families during the long summer holidays and other times when the children are not under the eye of the state?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The freedoms threatened by these proposals are freedoms necessary to every family and not just home educators. To put it simply, the party currently in power does not trust parents to raise their children and wish instead to control all aspects of our lives to ensure they are in line with a centralised agenda.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyone who thinks that undermining the homes and families of children in this way will not destabilise children and deprive them of a sense of security is wrong. Anyone who thinks that forcing children to exhibit to strangers their educational attainment and progress will not disrupt and undermine their education is wrong. Anyone who thinks that obliging families to undergo forced access to their home and forcing children to allow stranger access to their person separated from parents, will not make children confused and vulnerable to illicit approaches by other adults is wrong. '''It is child abuse'''. The officials who agree to carry out such state sponsored grooming of school age children may do so in a gentle voice and with a big smile on their faces, but that will not change the nature of what they are doing. '''It is child abuse'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of forced registration, home visit inspections and compulsory interview of children separated by law from parents is control. For what?}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, to make sure the good homeschooling parents are separated from the morons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==An actual homeschool==&lt;br /&gt;
For an example of an actual homeschool and the things that it teaches, take a look at [http://www.aoacademy.com/index.php Alpha Omega Academy]. AOA is [http://www.advanc-ed.org/ accredited], and on the surface seems to have a perfectly viable (if overtly religious) curriculum.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, look beneath the shiny exterior and you'll find that students at AOA are being taught to believe that science is wrong when it doesn't agree with the Bible (as in, science doesn't agree with the [http://i52.tinypic.com/hvths1.gif laws of physics.]) The biology curriculum is informed by the work of [[Ken Ham]], asserting that the Earth [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8zMsFeK7_OY/TryVmboCBFI/AAAAAAAAABQ/A12hO_fkzEQ/s1600/Derpdeedoo3.JPG *must* be 6,000 years old], or reinforcing the usual [http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-43xHGosTmIY/TryVkQgqfoI/AAAAAAAAABI/yZ-u0JHzR9g/s1600/derpdeedoo2.JPG anti-evolution rhetoric]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Oh, yeah, plus [http://i.imgur.com/xjEPK.jpg racism.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics like history and English are taught in the most bare-bones fashion possible while still maintaining the same religiosity that you see in science classes. A Bible class is required to graduate from the school, and health class is handled about as well as [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViNnSBKoWNeXUpd4nfXeRisUlXaeITQzj_o8DynXJjk/edit?pli=1 you'd expect it to be].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The online nature of the school, combined with the isolationist mindset of many parents who homeschool their children, means that many of the students have limited social contact, which makes it difficult for them learn how to question their beliefs (or their education), retards the development of critical thinking, and makes it difficult for them to get help if they realize that they are being denied a decent education or experiencing other forms of abuse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Patrick Henry College]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Unschooling]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Homeschoolers Anonymous]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1 Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)].  The main organization fighting against all homeschool regulations.&lt;br /&gt;
* Links to articles concerning textbooks used for homeschooling:&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2008/CA/774_interim_victory_in_california__4_1_2008.asp Creationism/ID] textbooks declared not adequate preparation for college.&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Eye-Opening_Highlights_From_a_Creationist_Science_Textbook &amp;quot;11 Eye-Opening Highlights From a Creationist Science Textbook&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Footnotes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2|90%}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Education]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Homeschooling]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Reckless Noise Symphony</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeschooling</id>
		<title>Homeschooling</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeschooling"/>
				<updated>2013-04-17T07:51:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Reckless Noise Symphony: /* History */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{bronze}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Homeschooling''' is just what it sounds like – [[children]] are schooled at home, usually by their parents.  Sometimes parents from two or more families will share the duties of schooling their children.  This is done to access the strengths of each parent as a teacher – one may be a [[mathematics]] whiz, another may be an [[English]] major, and so on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Collective homeschooling and the fight against government regulation and oversight==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschool classes aren't necessarily just one child being schooled at home by their parents. For instance, [[Andrew Schlafly]], the son of anti-feminist political activist [[Phyllis Schlafly]], has around 58 in his homeschooled [[history]] class. If you are wondering how one man could accumulate 58 &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; students, the answer goes by the term '''collective homeschooling'''.  That is, students gather at the home of a parent/teacher for class.  Usually, such people are defined as private tutors - a job title that requires a teacher's certificate in most states.  Homeschool advocates constantly fight against all such [[government]] efforts to regulate homeschooling, including:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Accreditation]] of all homeschool programs.&lt;br /&gt;
* Certification of parent/teachers, including those who teach other people's children.&lt;br /&gt;
* Oversight of curricula and teaching materials.&lt;br /&gt;
* Requirements that any home or other building used for collective homeschooling carry extra insurance to reflect its use as a school facility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The teachers==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most common model for homeschooling requires one parent (guess which one) to stay home with the kids and teach them from books specifically designed for homeschooling. This does mean that &amp;quot;home school parents are, by definition, more heavily involved in their children's [[education]] [than] [[Public education|public]] or [[Public school#British public schools|private school]] parents. Home schools can easily pace and adapt their curriculum; public and private schools typically have a mandated scope and sequence.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=rudner /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Homeschooling parent/teachers are not held to the same standards as public school teachers in most areas (for example [[New Jersey]]).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp State Laws], HSLDA - Advocates for Homeschooling&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  While many have college degrees, those degrees may lack any relevance to a child's school curriculum.  (Business administration, [[Theology]], Basket-weaving, for example.)  But, (this, in the [[United States|USA]] does vary from [[state]]-to-state,) as long as their children/students pass standardized tests, few people raise questions about this disparity. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Despite this, studies in the USA (which mention in their very abstract that they are not controlled experiments, and also note that homeschooling ''parents'' tend to be far more affluent than average) demonstrate that &amp;quot;at every grade level, the mean performance of home school students whose parents do not have a college degree is still much higher than the mean performance of students taught in public schools&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;rudner&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Rudner, Lawrence M., Ph.D. [http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/ &amp;quot;The Scholastic Achievement and Demographic Characteristics of Home School Students in 1998&amp;quot;]. Education Policy Analysis Archives. Volume 7 Number 8 March 23, 1999. ISSN 1068-2341 Retrieved 17 March 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; In fact, &amp;quot;having at least one parent who is a certified teacher appears to have no significant effect on the achievement levels of home schooled students. The test scores of students whose parents had ever held a teaching certificate were only three percentile points higher than those whose parents had not—in the 88th percentile versus the 85th percentile.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name=basham /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The homeschool industry==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Tinfoil hat]]ters — those who question homeschooling's effectiveness — claim that &amp;quot;the homeschooling industry has such a lock on the information about homeschooling that it is difficult to find anything but positive feedback.  (After reading some of it, you might think &amp;quot;[[propaganda]]&amp;quot; is more accurate.)  If you enter the word &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; into a search engine, followed by words like &amp;quot;[[myth]]s,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;horror stories,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;cons,&amp;quot; etc., you will be greeted by hundreds of links ''dispelling'' myths, horror stories and cons as lies.  Websites with legitimate stories about the negatives of homeschooling are almost impossible to find.  This lack of critical information has raised questions among those seeking information about homeschooling.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Do any good websites describe the cons of homeschooling? ''WikiAnswers: The Q&amp;amp;A Community'' [http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_any_good_websites_describe_the_cons_of_homeschooling]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot; However, one could simply conclude that homeschooling is not a bad as some think it might be. (See [[Occam's razor]].)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Child abuse and homeschooling==&lt;br /&gt;
Education is '''not''' a welfare issue and the two areas should not be confused: home education is an education matter. Despite this, there is a long history of attempts to conflate home education and child abuse, with swathes of propaganda suggesting that education otherwise than at school is a high risk area for children. Detractors go to great lengths to find &amp;quot;[[proof]]&amp;quot; that a child not in a school is a child at severe risk of undetected abuse. In 2009, for example, Graham Badman, author of the Elective Home Education Review, released a statement to the press including the claim that the overall number of children &amp;quot;known to children's social care in some local authorities is disproportionately high relative to the size of [the] home education population.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/5506542/Home-education-clampdown-an-infringement-of-civil-liberties.html Home education clampdown 'an infringement of civil liberties'] 12 June 2009. The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 28 October 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Four months later, under questioning at the House of Commons Children, Schools and Families Committee short inquiry into the review, he was forced to concede that a disproportionate number of children in home education had actually left the mainstream system because they had special educational needs, and it was for this reason that they were &amp;quot;known&amp;quot; to the education and social care system, not because of any danger to them.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Response to question from Paul Holmes (Lib Dem, Chesterfield) about the statistics regarding the numbers of home educated children 'known to social care'&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In March 2004, Jenny Price, general secretary of the Association of Education Welfare Managers, lobbied the then Children's Minister, Margaret Hodge, for greater powers to enter the homes of home educators. She alleged that &amp;quot;Some parents claim they are educating their children at home to hide the fact they are abusing them&amp;quot; and cited one case of a child being removed from school &amp;quot;then subjected to child abuse&amp;quot;. It later emerged that she was talking [[bullshit]]e, and the child had in fact died from natural causes.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3536000/3536629.stm New moves over home education]. BBC News. Retrieved 28 October 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Her subsequent apology (&amp;quot;We ... would want to withdraw that particular statement and at the same time apologise for whatever distress we may have caused&amp;quot;) received relatively little [[media]] coverage compared to the dramatic headlines (&amp;quot;Home education child abuse fears&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;Reform targets child abuse deaths&amp;quot;) which had accompanied the initial allegations. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===United States===&lt;br /&gt;
In 2004, the ''Akron Beacon-Journal'' published a report on child abuse and homeschooling.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Home Schoolers May Be No Safer in Their Homes Than Other Children&amp;quot; ''Arizona State University Archives'' [http://search.asu.edu/search?q=cache:OVeQpnVglesJ:epsl.asu.edu/epru/articles/EPRU-0503-104-OWI.pdf+epru-0503-104-owi&amp;amp;client=asu_frontend&amp;amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;amp;proxystylesheet=asu_frontend&amp;amp;output=xml_no_dtd&amp;amp;access=p&amp;amp;oe=UTF-8]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Among their findings:&lt;br /&gt;
*Public school buildings are still among the safest places for children, even after factoring in bullying and the (very) rare Columbine-style shooting;&lt;br /&gt;
*The U.S. Department of Justice (USDoJ) keeps no statistics on child abuse against homeschooled students;&lt;br /&gt;
*Because homeschooled children have no access to adults outside their parents' circle of friends, abuse can occur for years without ever being investigated by law enforcement.&lt;br /&gt;
The ''