Freeman on the land
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==Common law== | ==Common law== | ||
| − | Freeman have an obsession with | + | Freeman have an obsession with [[common law]], which typically refers to what is known as case law. |
{{cquote|As distinguished from statutory law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security [rights] of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgements and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs; and in this sense, particularly the ancient unwritten law of England.|4=Black's law dictionary 6th edition 1991}} | {{cquote|As distinguished from statutory law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security [rights] of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgements and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs; and in this sense, particularly the ancient unwritten law of England.|4=Black's law dictionary 6th edition 1991}} | ||
Revision as of 19:56, 7 February 2011
Freeman on the land or freeman is a form of pseudolegal woo existing in various English speaking countries. Freemen believe that they can opt out of being governed and that legislative acts only apply with consent, as they are a form of contract. They believe they are only bound by their own bizarre version of common law. They will often assert that the law doesn't apply as they do not consent and do not agree to contract with the state, even going so far as to believe they have a lawful right to refuse being arrested if they do not consent.
A lot of freeman ideas revolves around bizarre interpretations of entries in Blacks law dictionary (a favourite reference for freemen) or inventing distinctions or seeing distinctions where there are none to support their beliefs such as common vs statute law, policeman vs police officer, understand vs stand-under, words in CAPITALS having a different legal meaning to those in lower-case. There is a lot of pareidolia with words and concepts used to derive and justify ideas in freeman theory.
Freeman believe they can declare themselves independent of the jurisdiction of the government via a concept known as lawful rebellion: that all statute law is contractual and therefore only applicable if an individual consents to it. They believe the only true law is their own definition of common law. Other aspects include insisting that the government is a corporation, an obsession with maritime law and calling themselves such things as 'John of the family Smith' (see below).
Freemen are typically members of the green ink brigade and often indulge in various conspiracy theories such as chem-trails, vaccine hysteria, water fluoridation scares etc... They also exhibit strong anti-government and anti-corporate sentiments as well. Freeman ideas are often used to try and escape tax and debt repayment by arguing that they are not required to pay tax or even arguing that borrowed money was theirs to start with.[1] Freeman ideas are so far out that even arch-crackpot Alex Jones thinks it's quackery (no seriously, see for yourself)[2] and agrees that using them will probably get you sent to jail.
No freeman arguments have ever been recognised in court; some have even explicitly ruled that the term 'freeman on the land' has no legal significance.[3] This probably won't stop freemen from claiming they work.
Contents |
History
"Freeman on the land" ideas inherit several aspects from the older sovereign citizen and American tax protester movements in the US, including their ideas on admiralty law and their obsession with capitalisation of words. The movement appears to have been started in Canada with 'Mary Elizabeth: Croft' (sic) and her book How I clobbered every bureaucratic cash-confiscatory agency known to man ... a Spiritual Economics Book on $$$ and Remembering Who You Are[4]. This then evolved in to a movement in Canada with practitioners such as Robert Menard before transferring over to the UK with people such as John Harris, Brian Gerrish, the Anti-terrorist and Raymond St Clair.
Common law
Freeman have an obsession with common law, which typically refers to what is known as case law.
“”As distinguished from statutory law created by the enactment of legislatures, the common law comprises the body of those principles and rules of action, relating to the government and security [rights] of persons and property, which derive their authority solely from usages and customs of immemorial antiquity, or from the judgements and decrees of the courts recognizing, affirming, and enforcing such usages and customs; and in this sense, particularly the ancient unwritten law of England.
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| —Black's law dictionary 6th edition 1991 |
Freeman use this entry to justify a different definition. They see common law as deriving from some kind of natural or religious law distinct from statutory law. Natural law referring to the concepts of harm and loss. They see common law as applicable to everyone or as they would claim applicable to men and women, flesh and blood human beings, but statutory law as being a choice, an offer of contract. Only applicable to their person and not enforceable except by consent. Some definitions of freeman common law are;
“”"you do not cause harm or loss to another, while you never breach the peace, and never employ any mischief in your promises & agreements
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| —Veronica: of the chapman family" [5] |
“”never harm or causes loss
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| —John Harris |
“”There are only three ways to break the law. Harm another human being, damage someone else's property, use fraud or mischief in your contracts
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| —Robert Menard [6] |
Although Freeman do not understand it all law in England is ultimately under the jurisdiction of Parliament which can revoke, rewrite amend or consolidate case law/real common law whenever it sees fit. This is the principle known as Parliamentary sovereignty in the UK, where parliament is recognised as the supreme legal authority and being able therefore to pass or repeal any law it wishes. The only restriction being that it cannot bind future parliaments. Indeed any other system would pretty soon become unworkable as case law cannot be updated or amended by subsequent case law.
Ultimately law derives its authority from the fact that the state has the means and the will to use force to impose it. You may argue that the authorities have no jurisdiction over you and you may choose not to recognise their authority but as long as the authorities have force to back up their rules they can enforce sanctions against you including throwing you in jail. Freeman would argue that this would be unlawful imprisonment but you would still be in jail.
Legal Person or Straw man
Freeman believe that an individual has two persona's. One of themselves as a flesh and blood human being and one of their legal person, personality or strawman. A legal fiction which is created when a birth certificate is filed with what would normally be considered someone's name (eg; JOHN SMITH), capitalization being a particular obsession. Freeman believe that all legal actions, restrictions and statutes can only be applicable to their legal personality and that by separating themselves from their legal person they can free themselves of having to abide by statute laws they don't like (or acts, as they would insist they are not laws). This is typically done by using a slightly different of their person usually 'John of the family Smith' but variations include 'John of Smith' or even 'John;Smith' and/or entering in to what is referred to as Lawful Rebellion or by filing a Notice of Understanding and Intent and Claim of Right. They also believe that use of titles such as Mr/Mrs refer to their legal fiction as opposed to themselves and will therefore refuse to be identified using them (as this may create joinder). Freeman believe their birth certificate IS their legal person and will attempt to present it in a court room when said person is called for rather than identifying themselves as that person.
This belief seems to stem from a misunderstanding of the concept of legal person-hood. In actual legal theory there is a difference between what is known as a 'natural person' (which is not a legal fiction) and that of a corporate person (a legal fiction known as corporate person-hood, which applies to business, charities, governments and any recognised organisation). Courts recognise human beings as 'persons', not as a legal fiction joined to a flesh and blood human being but as one and the same (though in the past not everyone was recognised as a person before the law). They have never recognised a right to distance oneself from ones person, or the ability to opt out of person-hood. Where this defence has been tried in court judges have rejected it. One cannot escape justice simple by insisting that you are different from your person. If a court can establish your identity, regardless of your consent or cooperation, then they are free to engage in proceedings and sanctions against you.
It should be noted that there is a legal principle known as Idem sonans (Latin for "sounding the same") which states that similar sounding names are just as valid in referring to a person. The relevant UK precedent is R v Davis 1851.
“”If two names spelt differently necessarily sound alike, the court may, as matter of law, pronounce them to be idem sonantia; but if they do not necessarily sound alike, the question whether they are idem sonantia is a question of fact for the jury.
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No defences which relied on a misspelt or slightly altered name has been recognised by a court of law. Nor would any sane person presume that they would.
Because of their obsession with admiralty law and all things maritime freemen believe that their legal person is required to operate in commerce, or the sea of commerce. It is therefore defined as a vessel or ship in the legal realm, floating on the sea of commerce. Evidence of this comes in the form of the resemblance between birth and berth, use of the term birth canal and the fact that courtrooms have docks. All legal action between your person and others is therefore conducted under admiralty law, mercantile law or commercial law, sometimes referred to as the law of the sea.
Contracts and Statutes
Because of their concept of common law as being the only true law, freeman believe that any laws made by the government are not 'laws' but are instead invitations to contract or 'acts'. Giving rise to the freeman maxim 'Acts nor laws'. They do not believe that statute law applies without an individuals consent and that we are just conditioned and deceived by the authorities to believe they do. Freeman claim that statutes while not laws can have the force of law as a binding contract.
Freemen believe that the government has to establish what they refer to as joinder which means they have to get you to voluntarily establish your identity as your legal person. When they ask you whether you are 'John Smith' and you confirm that you are then you are establishing joinder. You have then connected yourself as a flesh and blood human being with your legal person. The next step is to obtain consent. Statutes are seen as invitations to enter a contract, they only have the force of law if one enters in to the contract consensually. If one does not enter in to a contract then statute laws are not applicable. Freemen believe that the government are therefore constantly trying to trick people in to entering in to a contract with them. They often return bills, notices, summons etc. via the post with the message "No contract - return to sender"
Central to this idea is the concept of legalese, referred to as the language of the law society. Freeman invent several distinctions to make reality fit their interpretation. Notices, e.g. from courts, police or various government agencies are supposedly written in legalese. Legalese is designed to look like English by using English words but is in fact not English but legalese instead. For instance they state that the word 'Must' in legalese is synonymous with 'May' (and vice-versa). 'Summons' means 'Invite', 'Demand' means 'Offer' and 'Understand' as in 'Do you understand?' means 'Stand under' as in 'Do you stand under these words', i.e., accept our terms of contract. All these terms are sneaky ways of getting you to contract with the government without you realising. No source is provided for this use of language, but it is a convenient way of getting reality to fit a delusion. After all if you start claiming that somebody says one thing they actually mean something completely different then you can start claim anything at all.
See here for an example of how they redefine a leaflet about the UK TV licence [1]
Notice of Understanding and Intent and Claim of Right
A 'Notice of understanding and intent and claim of right' is a made up legal document freemen use in an attempt to declare sovereignty. They will sign such a document, sometimes with a notary, and then send it to the Queen and sometimes various other figures such as the prime minister and police chiefs. It usually consists of a series of lines beginning 'Whereas it is my understanding' followed by an assertion that is usually not true or completely illogical. Various parts will state their bizarre interpretation of the law and their understanding that they do not consent to it. This is then followed by what is known as a 'Fee schedule' or 'Penalty schedules' which lists a series of acts and associated penalties the freeman will attempt to levy against the government for perceived transgressions. For instance, if the state incarcerates a freeman against their will then will attempt to charge the stat a fee for this action. See here for an example of one. They typically begin as follows
“” I, Veronica: of the Chapman family, hereinafter known as Veronica: Chapman, a flesh and blood human being in possession of a sovereign and individual spirit, a living soul, do hereby make Oath and state the following is My Truth and My Law:
Whereas it is my understanding that in terms of earthly existence there is no species more supreme than a living, breathing, imaginative human being blessed with a living soul, and Whereas it is my understanding that it is impossible to distinguish one soul from any other, and therefore all souls must at all times and in all situations be considered equal in all respects in any fair, just and reasonable context, and Whereas it is my understanding that anything and everything must in practice derive from the aforesaid axioms, and Whereas it is my understanding that any numerical grouping of such souls can be referred to as 'people', and Whereas it is my understanding that a society is, in essence, nothing more than a grouping of like-minded souls since it is defined as a number of people joined by mutual consent to deliberate, determine and act for a common goal, and Whereas it is my understanding a statute is defined as a legislated rule of a society, and Whereas it is my understanding a legislated rule of a society can be given the force of law to act upon, or lawfully bind, all members of that society, and Whereas it is my understanding if a living soul chooses by free will not to be a member of any society then statutes created by said society do not bind that soul to said statute law, and Whereas it is my understanding a living soul who chooses by free will not to be a member of any society can be referred to as a Freeman-on-the-land, and Whereas it is my understanding a Freeman-on-the-land remains entirely and solely under Common Law jurisdiction, and Whereas I Veronica: Chapman am a Freeman-on-the-land, and Whereas it is my understanding that all authority possessed by elected representatives must inherently derive from those who elect said representation, and Whereas it is my understanding that if I have the right to empower representation by casting a vote then I am empowered to represent myself, and Whereas it is my understanding that the right of empowerment does not derive from any government otherwise it would be possible for a government to revoke it, and Whereas it is my understanding that if the right to empower representation were revoked then no representation would thereafter be possible, and Whereas it is my understanding the only form of government recognized as lawful in the United Kingdom is a representative one, and ... |
Lawful Rebellion
Lawful rebellion is another concept in British freeman theory holding that one can lawfully choose cease obeying the rules of society by opting out of that society. This is often an alternative to the Notice of Understanding and Intent and Claim of Right method but are sometimes used together. Freemen believe that one can sacrifice ones legal person entering in to lawful rebellion. This claim stems from clause 61 of Magna Carta.
“”Since, moreover, for God and the amendment of our kingdom and for the better allaying of the quarrel that has arisen between us and our barons, we have granted all these concessions, desirous that they should enjoy them in complete and firm endurance forever, we give and grant to them the underwritten security, namely, that the barons choose five and twenty barons of the kingdom, whomsoever they will, who shall be bound with all their might, to observe and hold, and cause to be observed, the peace and liberties we have granted and confirmed to them by this our present Charter, so that if we, or our justiciar, or our bailiffs or any one of our officers, shall in anything be at fault towards anyone, or shall have broken any one of the articles of this peace or of this security, and the offense be notified to four barons of the foresaid five and twenty, the said four barons shall repair to us (or our justiciar, if we are out of the realm) and, laying the transgression before us, petition to have that transgression redressed without delay. And if we shall not have corrected the transgression (or, in the event of our being out of the realm, if our justiciar shall not have corrected it) within forty days, reckoning from the time it has been intimated to us (or to our justiciar, if we should be out of the realm), the four barons aforesaid shall refer that matter to the rest of the five and twenty barons, and those five and twenty barons shall, together with the community of the whole realm, distrain and distress us in all possible ways, namely, by seizing our castles, lands, possessions, and in any other way they can, until redress has been obtained as they deem fit, saving harmless our own person, and the persons of our queen and children; and when redress has been obtained, they shall resume their old relations towards us. And let whoever in the country desires it, swear to obey the orders of the said five and twenty barons for the execution of all the aforesaid matters, and along with them, to molest us to the utmost of his power; and we publicly and freely grant leave to everyone who wishes to swear, and we shall never forbid anyone to swear. All those, moveover, in the land who of themselves and of their own accord are unwilling to swear to the twenty five to help them in constraining and molesting us, we shall by our command compel the same to swear to the effect foresaid. And if any one of the five and twenty barons shall have died or departed from the land, or be incapacitated in any other manner which would prevent the foresaid provisions being carried out, those of the said twenty five barons who are left shall choose another in his place according to their own judgment, and he shall be sworn in the same way as the others. Further, in all matters, the execution of which is entrusted, to these twenty five barons, if perchance these twenty five are present and disagree about anything, or if some of them, after being summoned, are unwilling or unable to be present, that which the majority of those present ordain or command shall be held as fixed and established, exactly as if the whole twenty five had concurred in this; and the said twenty five shall swear that they will faithfully observe all that is aforesaid, and cause it to be observed with all their might. And we shall procure nothing from anyone, directly or indirectly, whereby any part of these concessions and liberties might be revoked or diminished; and if any such things has been procured, let it be void and null, and we shall never use it personally or by another.
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| —Magna Carta |
Clause 61 of Magna Carta is a historically and constitutionally significant clause. To surmise it gave 25 barons the right to meet and overrule the will of the king and seize his assets, essentially usurping his authority, if this was considered necessary. This was one of the first times that there had been any kind of restriction on a king's power from below. It could be argued as being one of the first checks and balances and the first step toward the move for constitutional government. Clause 61 was only in effect for 3 months as King John later renounced it and Pope Innocent III released King John from his oath to obey it. This led to a civil war between the king and his barons known as the 1st Baron's War.
Freeman claim that clause 61 allows them to cease obeying the state. This sometimes involves sending an affidavit direct to the Queen declaring ones intent to become a freeman and removing authority from the government over them. Some freeman believe that the Queen represents the highest authority in the land as the sovereign but that she derives her authority from we the people. This then makes them sovereign in such that there is no higher authority then themselves. The actual text of clause 61 explicitly refers to the King and the Barons (25 of them being required to invoke the clause), nowhere is there any mention of the people free or otherwise and the phrase 'Lawful Rebellion' doesn't actually appear anywhere in it.
Admiralty Law and Courts
Freemen see a distinction between what they call common law or 'law of the land' and that of statute law, referred to as admiralty law 'law of the sea', sometimes also known as maritime law or the universal commercial code. They see admiralty law as being the law of commerce. The law of ownerShip, citzenSHIP and anything else ending in ship. They see evidence of this in various nautical sounding terms used in court, such as dock, birth(berth) certificate, -ship suffix's etc.... Freeman will take this further by using further nautical terms, referring to the court as a ship, its occupants as passengers and claming that anyone leaving are men overboard. Consequently their legal arguments tend to have a hilarious nautical theme.
Freemen see courts as being a place of business intended to make profit for the government corporation. Sometimes they refer to these courts as courts de facto. When they receive a summons to appear as court they insist that this is not summons but is in fact an invite(an example of legalese) to their place of business to discuss the matter at hand. When one initially enters a court they are operating under admiralty law rather than their version of common law. American Freeman on the land will sometimes try to argue that if the flag in the court has a gold fringe that signifies it is an Admiralty court. British courts tend not to have flags of any type so the claim has largely failed to cross the Atlantic. Believing they are operating under admiralty law freeman will try claim common law jurisdiction by stating 'I claim common law jurisdiction'. Therefore removing their consent to be governed by admiralty law and turning the court in to a common law court forcing the court to proceed according to their version of common law. Any cooperation with the court at all is seen as accepting their terms of contract and freemen will therefore refuse to do anything asked of them. When asked to stand or approach the bench they will often refuse to do so or only do so as long as 'their inalienable god given rights remain intact', to prevent them from entering a contract. Freeman will also attempt to 'put the judge on their oath' to force them to to act in accordance with common law, this will entail asking to see evidence of this oath. Judges typically give short swift to this kind of request and either adjourn the hearing or threaten contempt (to which freemen will ask civil or contempt?). This is because freemen believe that civil contempt would come under admiralty law and therefore require a consensual contract and criminal contempt would require a victim. When Judges leave the courtroom Freeman will attempt to claim common law authority and then attempt to dismiss the charges themselves.[7][8]
Freemen believe that for a common law crime to have been committed that a victim must exist. One of their attempts at defence will be to demand to see evidence of a victim. (victimless crime not being something they recognise). They may also complain that the trial is unfair because the judge and prosecution are on the same team, being both employed by the state. If a Freeman has had their property confiscated, drugs for example, they will request that it be returned to them. None of these defences ever get them anywhere but they persist in using them anyway.
Freemen will never accept legal representation as to do so might entail entering in to a contract with the state. They also believe that professional lawyers and solicitors owe a duty to the crown before them due to their oath and therefore cannot represent them effectively. Professional lawyers are also all part of the evil legal system and therefore not to be trusted.
Other legal woo attempted by Freeman include serving their own papers on courts and the police and even attempting to send invoices, or fee schedules as they refer to them to courts and the police.
Court appearances are by far the most hysterical part of the freeman delusion as various youtube videos will attest. Watching freeman trying to apply their delusions to reality is like watching a slow motion train wreck.
Economics and Finance
Freeman have some bizarre ideas dating back to the Cestui Que Vie Act of 1666. They claim that this act declared all English citizens dead and lost beyond the seas unless they objected within seven years of their birth, after which they would be declared dead without reasonable doubt. The state would then claim all the property of its citizens in trust. The full text of the act can be read [2] courtesy of the national archives. It's very short and reads as follows;
“”Recital that Cestui que vies have gone beyond Sea, and that Reversioners cannot find out whether they are alive or dead.
Whereas diverse Lords of Mannours and others have granted Estates by Lease for one or more life or lives, or else for yeares determinable upon one or more life or lives And it hath often happened that such person or persons for whose life or lives such Estates have beene granted have gone beyond the Seas or soe absented themselves for many yeares that the Lessors and Reversioners cannot finde out whether such person or persons be alive or dead by reason whereof such Lessors and Reversioners have beene held out of possession of their Tenements for many yeares after all the lives upon which such Estates depend are dead in regard that the Lessors and Reversioners when they have brought Actions for the recovery of their Tenements have beene putt upon it to prove the death of their Tennants when it is almost impossible for them to discover the same, For remedy of which mischeife soe frequently happening to such Lessors or Reversioners. |
| —Cestui Que Vie Act, 1666 |
The true intent of this act is obvious: it states that anyone lost at sea for more than seven years will be declared legally dead. How anyone can arrive at a different conclusion is bizarre.
Freemen believe that the UK and Canada are now operating in bankruptcy and therefore is under admiralty law. Since the abolition the gold standard in 1917 UK currency is now backed not by gold but rather by the people, or rather the legal fiction of their persons. They describe persons as creditors of the UK corporation.
Government
Freeman are typically strongly anti-government and believe that the government is a corporation (number uc2279443). The proof is that the government and various parts of it are listed on the website of credit agency 'Dunn and Bradstreets' as having a credit record. Any other evidence that runs contrary to this view is commonly viewed as wrong, lies deception etc... Only evidence which supports this view is accepted as correct, in a similar way to how conspiracy theorists often treat evidence that runs contradicts their viewpoint.
In reality any entity be that corporation, government, person/human, charity or whatever that borrows money or works on credit will need a credit record so that creditors can assess the risk of lending. Credit agencies are also not the arbiters of what is and isn't a corporation. I could set up a credit rating organisation tomorrow and say that such and such is a corporation, but it wouldn't make it so. The idiosyncrasies of how a credit rating organisation's website list entities should not be taken as proof of outrageous claims.
Freemen also claim that when we vote we are in fact electing directors of a company for profit, that MPs are directors and the voters are employees of the corporation. Although the UK government (and nearly all western governments) has in fact been running at a deficit pretty much constantly since the war. Who is supposed to get the profit from this corporation is unclear. MPs get a get a fixed standard salary which is way below an equivalent job in the private sector.
Freeman Failures
Despite the numerous attempts to use freeman legal woo and their obvious failures freemen will always insist that they do work, even clinging to this delusion when arrested and thrown in the cells. Below are some examples.
- Two men are arrested and charged with growing cannabis they claim to be freemen on the land but the courts state that they have "no personal circumstances applying to them which affords immunity to prosecution" and that there was "no legal significance" to the term 'freeman on the land' and that they would be tried anyway.
- Freeman Mark of the family Bond gets arrested [3] after refusing to recognise the court and giving police his notice of intent but gets a suspended 3 month jail sentence anyway, on condition that he pays off his debt
- Freeman 'Brian-arthur: alexander' tries to get out of speeding by telling a judge the law doesn't apply to him. The judge disagrees and the police suggest further charges of obstruction and mischief for his freeman shenanigans.
- Mika Rasila gets stopped by the police for not having a licence plate. He tells them that he doesn't consent to their laws and that he isn't an employee of the 'corporation of Canada'. It doesn't work and they arrest him and impound his van. A judge later gives him a fine of $1,250.
- Freeman Darren Pollard gets arrested Despite telling the police officer he doesn't consent or contract. Not suprisingly it fails and they take him in to custody anyway
- Darren Pollard gets arrested again after refusing to appear in court despite trying to claim that he was 'Darren of the family Pollard' and not the legal fiction of Darren Pollard they were looking for
- A Freewoman user 'girlgye' recollects her account of being arrested for not having road tax or car insurance and having her 'conveyance' impounded. This inspite of all the freeman woo she tried
External links
- THE PEOPLE'S UNITED COMMUNITY
- fmotl.com
- THE BRITISH CONSTITUTION GROUP
- Raymond St Clair Freeman on the land
- Freeman on the land forum on the David Icke website
- Major thread on the James Randi education foundation forums discussing and debunking freeman ideas
Sources
- John Harris Talking About 'Life' at Truthjuice 17th Feb 2010
- John Harris - 'It's an illusion' talk at the Stoke 'Lawful Rebellion' Conference[9]
- John Harris - It's an illusion 2, at London
- Robert Menard Freeman On The Land
Footnotes
- ↑ Section 16 - See here for how the concept of fractional reserve banking in perverted to justify this claim
- ↑ Alex Jones calls freeman ideas 'Quackery'
- ↑ http://news.scotsman.com/glasgow/Freemen-are-told-they-will.6676742.jp 'Freemen' are told they will be tried
- ↑ How I clobbered every bureaucratic cash-confiscatory agency known to man ... a Spiritual Economics Book on $$$ and Remembering Who You Are She actually lists David Icke as a source in this book
- ↑ definition of common law
- ↑ Robert Menard introduces Freeman ideas including a definition of common law
- ↑ Freeman In Gloucester Court 29th Jan 2010 Part 1.
- ↑ ENGLISH FREEMAN IN COURT PART 1
- ↑ At 38:04 in this video John Harris cites Baby P as an example when talking about social services taking peoples children away from them. Baby P was a case in the UK of a child who died at the hands of his mother and her boyfriend. Social services and the various other agencies involved were widely criticised for failing to take the child in to care and not identifying the risk to the child. Not only is it intellectually dishonest to cite an emotive real life example that actually contradicts your argument, to misrepresent a tragic case like this in such a way is downright offensive.