RationalWiki:Chicken coop

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:::I vaguely recall highschool: still, it was the best eight years of my life![[User_Talk:Cracker|CЯacke<big>®</big>]] 23:58, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 
:::I vaguely recall highschool: still, it was the best eight years of my life![[User_Talk:Cracker|CЯacke<big>®</big>]] 23:58, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 
::::Yeah, well, I think it is time for me to graduate.  Have fun swarming.  {{User:HeartOfGold/handle}} 00:41, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 
::::Yeah, well, I think it is time for me to graduate.  Have fun swarming.  {{User:HeartOfGold/handle}} 00:41, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
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And perhaps one day, you'll look back in your yearbook and realize you weren't the geek harassed by the popular kids like you thought, but the bully who liked pushing people into lockers until they had to complain to the teachers.  Good fortune. --[[User:Kels|Kels]] 07:10, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Revision as of 12:10, 1 August 2007

Contents

This page is for the reporting of abuse of sysop privileges

They keep taking my name in vain and are all a complete bunch of cunts to boot. I demand their immediate defenestration! --Helena Bonham Carter 19:54, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Tell me about it. Bunch of pussies. --God 20:04, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Personal Attack

Sysops DocSock and Kels have personally attacked me and someone vandalized my castle then an administrator modified the database with yet another wiki glitch so we can't find out who. I demand sanctions! --UL 20:14, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

I think we should give you sysopship so you can help us clean house! 24.141.169.255 20:25, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Human abuses and intimidates users by changing their pages

Well, someone has to start this! Am I blocked yet? humanbe in 23:57, 25 June 2007 (CDT)


Heart of Gold.

I have been blocked for one minute by Heart of gold for calling him a troll. This is abuse of his sysop powers because:

  • He is a troll
  • He has used his sysop powers in an attempt to personally protect himself in an edit battle in which he was personally involved Tower of Babel.

Consequently I request that he be stripped of these powers--Bob_M (talk) 13:58, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I will add to the above his open admissions of bigotry and racism at Talk:Transsexual. Is this what we want representing RW as a Sysop? --Kels 14:01, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
HG subsequently lied about his block by claiming it was for POV pushing. He subsequently acknowledged this on my talk page and added it retrospectively. The "POV" was that the Tower of Babel was a myth. This man should not by a sysop.--Bob_M (talk) 14:31, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

HG has just moved an article to essay without consultation, and was blocked for 3 minutes in response. This is a clear abuse of powers, and as Bob said, he should not be a sysop. For that matter, I argued against his demotion in the first place, I am not a bit happy about being vindicated in that position. --Kels 14:35, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I was also uneasy about his return to powers, but as I had had a few confrontations with him I did not feel that I could comment fairly. But this is different. Blocks like this may the norm in CP but we have a different concept. On occasions, I have myself felt that comments have been uncalled for but I have either ignored them or spoken to people privately. The use of sysop powers by sysops to punish people who (seem to) lack these powers is an abuse.--Bob_M (talk) 14:45, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Being a relatively new 'editor' I do not expect my word to carry as much weight as those above. Since I have been here it has been noticeable that Heart of Gold has been the major confrontational voice. While there is nothing wrong with confrontation pe se, he has taken his attitude to the extreme. He was, rightly in my view, called a troll and immediately used his sysop powers to attack the perpetrator. Is it possible that he is attempting to disrupt RW by sowing dissension? Is it not 'innocent discourse? Is he a cp mole? It's a pity because he seems like a nice guy. Keepoff the grass 15:07, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding" - "My Racist Friend", They Might Be Giants --Kels 15:13, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Get a rope. RubyWalleye 15:07, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Why the alternate account, troll? --Kels 15:12, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

OK, let's settle this nicely, in a WP style way.

A dossier on HoG (oh noes, now we are like CP!)

The purpose of this is to settle this dispute without too much flaming - hopefully as little as possible. I (wikinterpreter) have intentionally stayed out of the various disputes. Note - this is only HoG's actions against others, and a fairly cursory selection at that, so feel free to add more. If he wants to file counter-abuse reports, he is more than welcome.

Who is being complained about

What did he do?

If you believe that something has been missed out, please above sign your name above, with the permalink.

Grounds for complaint Unfortunately, bar TK, HoG is the first user to be prosecuted in the Star Chamber reviewed on the Administrative abuse section. This means that we've got no policies on trolling/suchlike.

Still, there are some relevant passages here -

What is a Rationalwiki article?. See 'RationalWiki is not neutral point of view', Community Standards -

'This is a mobocracy. The only way to describe how things are done around here is with the tautology that things are done around here the way they are done around here. We are ultimately an expression of the active editors on this project. What is written about, how it is discussed, parsed and organized is a reflection of the community makeup, and not a set of rules or policies.'

'Personal "attacks", however justified, are strongly frowned upon.'

'Personal information about other users that is not volunteered by that user should not be posted on this site.' (this would include accusations such as the mental disorders and the drugs, I would argue)

Please feel free to add, debate, discuss, but please, no trolling/flaming, or I will cry. --מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי שְׁלֹום!

Based on the discussion on this page and linked from this page, from Talk:Transsexual and Talk:Tower of Babel, I have promoted HoG to normal user. As with all such unilateral actions, it can be overridden if the community consensus is that it should be, and a promotion for me may be appropriate as well. --jtltalk 16:34, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Weird, I totally missed his apology in the edit summary there, although it's a bit hollow given that he accused me of having a psychiatric disorder on his talk page earlier today. --Kels 16:36, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I don't really have strong feelings regarding HG's sysop powers one way or another but strangely enough find it useful to have a detractor from the RW viewpoint about the place as it makes me think (insofar as I ever think when posting) about what I post when debating. If giving HG sysop status is a requisite to him staying around, then I'm broadly in favour of him having it as a means to an end. If he's happy to stay and provide a counterpoint without sysopness (unlike TK), then I see no reason to return them. Although as a member of the elite non-sysop class, I clearly recognise our superiority...XD HexspecimenIt's an X 16:40, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Heart has strong views that can rankle and left to his own devices his articles and essays almost seem like they are designed to elicit response.
Like an itinerant street preacher bellowing "The Word of God" into passers-by face's, any retort is taken as "persecution" and he rebukes the evil he sees.
I do not, for one, have a problem with this.
It may be a little early to be circling the wagons, just yet. We knew his "style" when he got here. He's intelligent and able to defend his views with a lucidity that most so-called "trolls" fail to possess.
What concerns me more than his...rankling, though, is this...(oh, let's call it) desire to maintain "orthodoxy" or even mainstreamedness. RW welcomed all POV, so we said back in the Good ol' days, but we didn't mean that, did we? Otherwise we'd see Heart's diatribes and pontifications as just another whacky RWer with a POV to push.
"Oh let him stay as an editor with no power over other users, (it was a 'mistake' that he got that power in the first place)."
I do not agree. I have seen him come under attack, almost relentlessly, from many sides for articles and essays that, at best, were so fringe that someone without a bone to pick would have passed by without a second thought. As with the street preacher analogy above, he (very well could) feel that it is him (and his God) against the heathen and is willing to do whatever it takes to survive.
CЯacke® 18:52, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

If that preacher were to set up his stall outside your window and continue all day, every day, then I'm willing to bet that some reaction - not of the "come in and have a cup of tea" variety - would ensue. You'd probably call the cops. That's what happened here. Keepoff the grass 19:41, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I don't believe your analogy holds. You have to: turn on your computer (wake up), fire up your browser (go out of the front door), click on RW (walk downtown), put your ears within shouting range (go to "his" corner), and listen to the rants (actually read the tripe). CЯacke® 19:49, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
This is a fascinating conversation...I like that we are actually discussing it. I respect the opinions of all of the folks who have commented so far. Rob is right, HoG is always intelligent, and usually very coherent. I also agree with the streetside preacher analogy. Tough one here. We did agree to allow all views. It really does fall on us to ignore people we feel are distracting us from real work. But we can't seem to resist, can we....hmmm..User:PalMD
A couple of brief points, Cracker (and I'm glad the chorus here is at least a bit out of tune). One is that HG went to articles that people were working on, altered or challenged them, and when discussion ensued, escalated it to edit wars and insults. IOW, he walked into their workshops, they didn't walk up to his soapbox. I also have to say that analysis or argument by analogy is dangerous, as analogies or metaphors only work to some limited point (look how badly Ashfly does with his vandals/furniture arguments). Two, HG was desysoped for one simple thing: blocking a user (twice?) in an edit war. If it was indeed twice, the second time was after I warned him that it wasn't very nice, and he replied "so block me". In other words, abusing the powerz cost him them. Other than that promotion to regular editor (our highest salaried position on RW), he has not been blocked or in any other way disenfranchised on RW. humanbe in 20:05, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I well agree he's acerbic...my main point was he's on the defensive all the time, sometimes "the best defense is a good offense" gets on mine own nerves too but to take away his admin rights because he "abused" them (two one minute blocks!! PFFT!) high skewl stuff.
Then again he does seem to swagger around a bit with that chip on his shoulder, "I double-dog dares ya to disagree with me!", attitude gets old quickly. Maybe he's just here at the behest of TeeKay to keep the wandism down over to Hell House, I dunno. CЯacke® 23:09, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I seem to recall a link to some guy's website about how he's studied "social software" and the way it's implemented and found that that EVERY "community" came to this juncture sooner or later...the "orthodoxy" thing.CЯacke®

Unfortunately I've put "Recentchanges" as my home page so (although he's making a liar of me now) I usually get him as soon as I log on. Trouble is: I think that if he wasn't so whacky I'd probably like him, but he seems to go all out to make enemies. I really do think that he might be a CP mole charged with sowing dissension (as witness above). Could carry on but I'm waffling - 2:10 am (yawn) Keepoff the grass 20:10, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Honestly Cracker, I don't think it's so much a case of orthodoxy as community standards and civil discourse. Every community has to have some sort of boundaries of what it'll accept in terms of how people respect each other, and the examples above point to a rather blatant breaking of those rules. It's less about his ideas and more about his way of interacting, a good deal of which I believe to be deliberate. --Kels 20:18, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

In my humble opinion HG has become increasingly hostile and confrontational in the past fortnight, almost to the point of being overly so. Locke Random 20:32, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

HeartOfGold

So, this is my idea...take it or leave it. There seems to be mixed sentiment re our politics, mission, hypocracy, etc. HG, when not doing some BS-detecting, likes to incite with his odd brand of politics that was both too right and too left for CP. He likes writing essays...we won't run out of bytes. He does not share the ideas of this website, as much as he might think he does, however, everyone here controls their own fingers on their keyboards.

If the community dislikes HG's rants, and he avoids blatant insults, edit wars, etc, just ignore him. Engage him when you wish, ignore him if you feel he's a troll (I think he sometimes is). I think, given our diverse nature, we should all avoid bigotry, which would include saying you don't want your kids around Asians, TGs, fish, what-the-fuck-ever (pedophiles of course, we all agree are scum). I ask HG please try not to slide into what the rest of us consider bigotry.

Now, HG knows that this is not exactly a religious site. AKjeldsen is probably the most knowledgeable here about things Biblical, and I actually share many of his views (if I understand him properly...he no speakee the english gut). I think its Bob (sorry if I'm wrong) who represents the more atheistic end of things. Either way, there is plenty of room for articles about religion, and they should not degenerate into trash...which doesn't mean they can't be critical. It would be nice if the criticism were intelligent.

Given that religion will be criticized here (including my own), unless someone gets out of hand with "mine is better than yours and your going to hell", well, keep a thick skin. I'd recommend that HG keep his anti-anti-religion stuff to his essays and talk pages, and people can either feed the troll or save a goat. My considerably-more-than 2 cents.--PalMD-Goatspeed! 21:18, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd have to say that I do tend to agree that the don't-feed-the-(unnamed)-troll policy is the best… and I would also suggest tolerance, even verging on, perhaps, excess. My $0.001. --Linus(plot evil tech) 21:25, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
There should be a link to essays about the subject in the see also section or perhaps a essay box kind of like {{Cp}} so the essay contibutors like HG can feel that there responses will be viewd. This might keep the amount of continual responses to responses to responses in an article down. - Icewedge 21:29, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Hmmm...i wonder who has the skillz to do such a thing?--PalMD-Goatspeed! 21:32, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I think "See Also" works fine for that. And an essay writer would usually know an article exists to link from. And, in addition, we should respect the inclusionof such links, no matter what we think or feel about the essay(s) in question. humanbe in 22:06, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I don't know that I'd consider HG to be an abusive user per se, but he definitely suffers from a streak of conservative dogmatism that doesn't really fit in, here or in any peer-collaborative environment. I don't think there's anything we can or should do about it at this point, but I don't think contributing here is going to make him happy, as he's already got himself on auite a few people's bad sides. EVDebs 22:00, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Maybe this is what dealing with Howard Rourke would be like? (Hint Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead.) CЯacke®
Naw, that's me ;) humanbe in 22:09, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Anyone know of any "Jesus wikis" he might like and that we could sugest too him? - Icewedge 22:03, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I was under the understanding a while back that he was planning to found a wiki of some sort. Did anything ever come of that? --Kels 22:04, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Last I heard he had dropped the idea. Hmmm, RationalLibertarianChristianWiki? humanbe in 22:09, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

The name also irks: it sounds so self saisfied.

btw :there's no-one more atheist than me. (Richard Dawkins was just on BBC world sevice - he took a phone call from a guy in wisconsin. Try to catch it - it'll be repeated, everything is repeated on there.) Keepoff the grass 22:07, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I talked to god about that, Susan, and she says I'm more atheist than thou! humanbe in 22:10, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Baal says I'm more atheist, but I still enjoy intelligent conversation about religion.--PalMD-Goatspeed! 22:14, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Highschool comment

What makes you think this is any different than high school? These are the exact same people as in highschool. They just use computers now, fancy words, a little bit more make up--ain't no different. HeartGoldCry Like a little girl 23:48, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Drove up a newcomer in a covered wagon: 'What kind of folks live around here?' 'Well, stranger, what kind of folks was there in the country you come from?' 'Well, they was mostly a lowdown, lying, thieving gossiping, backbiting kind lot of people.' 'Well, I guess, stranger, that's about the kind of folks you'll find around here.' And the dusty gray stranger had just about blended into the dusty gray cottonwoods in a clump on the horizon when another newcomer drove up: 'What kind of folks live around here?' 'Well, stranger, what kind of folks was there in the country you come from?' 'Well, they was mostly a decent, hardworking, lawabiding, friendly lot of people.' 'Well, I guess, stranger, that's about the kind of folks you'll find around here.'"
—Carl Sandburg, The People, Yes
Stolen via Dpbsmith's user page at CP.
Wherever you go, there you are. humanbe in 23:51, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Actually, I just stole this line from you-tube (Cube-girl). My highschool days were a blast. My junior high days, at Carl Sandburg Junior High, were not. HeartGoldCry Like a little girl 23:55, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
I vaguely recall highschool: still, it was the best eight years of my life!CЯacke® 23:58, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Yeah, well, I think it is time for me to graduate. Have fun swarming. HeartGoldCry Like a little girl 00:41, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

And perhaps one day, you'll look back in your yearbook and realize you weren't the geek harassed by the popular kids like you thought, but the bully who liked pushing people into lockers until they had to complain to the teachers. Good fortune. --Kels 07:10, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

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