RationalWiki:Saloon bar

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Saloon bar
WIGO Bar colour.png

This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Beer.gif For previous conversations see the automagic barchives. Laughing.gif Puke.gif

What is going on?

The Bar
(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

RationalWiki:Forum
  1. Can I get a 3rd party review? (20:29, 22 May 2013)
  2. Recommend Smart Action/Sci-Fi Novels (01:06, 18 May 2013)
  3. Questions concerning Raw milk (13:51, 15 May 2013)
  4. Matchmaking service for the master races (01:48, 13 May 2013)
  5. Wherein I try to avoid "whining" (16:59, 12 May 2013)
  6. Dream Club (02:09, 12 May 2013)
To do list

Contents


Webhost wondering

It's time to get a website for my stuff. What's a good webhost for a site that will end up hosting mp3s (probably quite long), photos and probably a bit of video? Sophiebecause liberals 14:28, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Youtube. You mean a public website, right? My apologies if you're just looking for a storage service (although Youtube could work for that as well)--"Shut up, Brx." 15:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I'd say MySpace, but you'd probably hunt me down and kill me. Doesn't your ISP offer a web hosting service? --PsyGremlinSnakk! 15:43, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I was thinking of a website of my own, so I was in charge of content management. Sophiebecause liberals 15:56, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, I won't kill you for suggesting myspace, but I invite the RW community to visit South Africa for their holidays just to point and laugh at you. Sophiebecause liberals 15:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I have been running that co-op server for a while now (where RWW is) and still have space for a couple more accounts. Let me know if you want more details on that. Tmtoulouse (talk) 16:20, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Will I get any RWW on me? Sophiebecause liberals 20:22, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
RWW is a like a terror squid spreading its venomous tentacles everywhere. Simply by speaking of it, your website has been poisoned. Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 09:03, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
For something a bit smaller, they're far from perfect, but Dreamhost are competent and offer fairly cheap virtual hosts which have served me well for a bunch of years now. They're employee-owned and they support charities and all that good stuff.
However wherever you land up I would generally caution ordinary users that administrating a web site is a bunch of work. Check what the web host will support for you at the price stated, and reconcile yourself to customising as little as you can bear beyond that. The more you tweak the more of the rest of your life will be spent keeping things working and secure. And if you're not getting paid that will get old fast. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
True. RIP Blightynet. Redchuck.gif ГенгисGum diseaseModerator 21:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I second Dreamhost. I've been a satisfied customer of theirs for several years now. They're good people. Ochotonaprincepsnot a pokémon 06:07, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Also, after thinking about it a moment, if you want hosted content management as well as hosting (in other words, a built-in front end), you might want to give SquareSpace a try. They offer two-week free trials without demanding a credit card or anything, and everything is WYSIWYG, including changing the layout (but it's sane, not Microsoft Frontpage 2002 all over again). Ochotonaprincepsnot a pokémon 06:15, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Dreamhost is awesome. I use it for my website. It costs me $70 a year. If you don't care what the domain name is, I'll put up an FTP account and rent you however much space you want for much much less than that. Then again, it sounds like Google Drive might be for you, if you just want to store media? ONE / TALK 11:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

LIBOR scandal

Our financial wizards never fail to amaze. Taibbi has a series of posts starting here. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:45, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I come from a family of financiers. Nothing surprises me anymore. That being said, hopefully this scandal will force top bankers to realize that no, they can't capture every regulator and no, they can't get away with every way to cheat the system to make more money. Picon small.pngAcer Blue 04:58, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Homo economicus comes crashing down again. Osaka Sun (talk) 05:40, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
It's interesting that the US actually warned the Bank of England some time ago that "we just trust whatever they tell us" isn't a sane approach to constructing a rate like LIBOR. I couldn't understand at first how that had been allowed to happen, and then I found out LIBOR rates sometimes track numbers that are purely theoretical anyway. "If you had to lend Tiny Bank some Venusian Plinks, what would the rate be?" "Um, but we didn't lend them any?" "No trouble, just guess". "Uh, let's say 4.26?" "Hooray, the Tiny Bank Venusian Plinks component of LIBOR is up 1% compared to yesterday". So they couldn't insist on any standard of evidence because by their own admission the numbers were sometimes completely fictitious anyway. Idiots. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 15:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
The trippy bit is you can probably buy Tiny Bank Venusian Plinks derivatives based on that value, even if no one ever lends them money. - π 03:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I have a sneaking suspicion that the entire worldwide financial system is based upon theoretical constructs of fictitious numbers into vast systems of fictitious transfers of fictitious money. Picon small.pngAcer Blue 03:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
When I have had the misfortune of teaching financial modelling courses the big problem I have is trying to get the students head around the idea that nobody ever takes possession of the things they buy. The common example is if you buy 1000 options to buy at $20 and at expiry the stock is worth $21, then you just get $1000, you don't have to ever have to be able to purchase the 1000 shares for $20000, or for them to even be available at that price for you to buy. - π 03:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh, we're into the world of perfect and imperfect wp:arbitrage, where conspiracy theories run amok. nobsCorporations are people, too 03:40, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Not the entire system Blue, but the same applies as in writing software and probably many other things in life. There is a handy abstraction (say, a financial instrument like a Credit Default Swap) but abstractions are leaky, so it is vital that you understand what's actually going on beneath the abstraction, even if you still regard the abstraction as useful. If you begin to think of the abstraction as real itself, you will get burned. Lots of people at investment banks had begun to imagine that the abstractions they dealt with were real, but perhaps worse ordinary people who don't think of themselves as financial experts have begun to believe in instruments like mortgages, insurance policies, etc. without grokking those abstractions either. My parents nearly lost their house because they wrongly believed the endowment they'd signed up to was guaranteed to pay off their loan but in fact it was only ever projected to pay off, and in their case the estimates were badly wrong.
Of course this situation is also, to a point, responsible for our whole modern civilisation. Fiat money is an abstraction, and having the populace understand why it's a good idea is a lot more effort than just letting people coast along believing that the coins in their pocket are valuable but not knowing why. Probably it would be useful if we all spent a bit more time acting like a small child and following every answer to our questions with a further, "But why?" 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Liquefy?

It's about time we put LQT in the Saloon Bar. Maybe have a separate Pub (old) and Nightclub (LQT)? Bootmiiwanna play nomic? 00:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh hey Lumenos (or otherwise Lumenoid individual). Picon small.pngAcer Blue 01:40, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
That would be the worst idea ever. LQT sucks ass, and is awful to navigate and archive. ħumanUser talk:Human 08:28, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
An old example of Blue being an asshat, here, by the way. ħumanUser talk:Human 08:29, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
What are you taking about? My comment was only insulting if you consider being compared to Lumenos an insult. Why do you insist on taking random potshots at me? Picon small.pngAcer Blue 08:41, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Because he is a trollish asshole.
That would be the worst person ever. Human sucks ass, and is awful to work with and talk to.  ni ebnamuħ   09:06, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
An old example of Human being an asshat, here, by the way.  ni ebnamuħ   09:06, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I oppose this in the strongest terms possible. Doctor Dark (talk) 16:01, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Not until LQT is reconciled to enhanced recent changes. The Saloon Bar is so active, RC will be clogged constantly with each new post. And getting the browser to save text that hasn't been submitted yet would be a major plus, especially since we always block each other around here.--"Shut up, Brx." 16:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely no effing way. Sophiebecause liberals 16:19, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I vote no as well. Sam Tally-ho! 18:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Nope. And I even sorta like LQT. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 18:10, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Sweet Jesus, that's a horrible idea. Theory of Practice Peer-reviewed articles for everybody! 18:15, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
No. Just no, without the faintest glimmer of negotiability. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 23:07, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Which troll drag this out of the back alley where it had been rightly ignored for 2 months? And why after 2 months did Human dignify this idiocy with a response? For fuck's sake I am sure some of you just enjoy the drama. - π 03:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Sophie; He doesn't give two shits; Probably. Picon small.pngLiquid Blue 03:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I didn't realize it was two months old. Funny.--"Shut up, Brx." 04:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Tea party thing? Freeman thing?

Republican quits mainstream politics to form her own government, sorta. Is this a new trend? and old trend? or just one stupid woman? --Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons 18:02, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks like sovereign citizen stuff to me. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 18:08, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Looks like sedition to me. Theory of Practice Peer-reviewed articles for everybody! 18:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I look forward to reading about her arrest for tax evasion. -- Seth Peck (talk) 23:11, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I'll make the popcorn if you guys bring the drinks. I look forward to hearing her delicious bugfuck arguments about how, like, Clause 37(b) of Section 5 of the Food and Drug Administration's 1977 bulletin on what crops [totally just made that up] means that she is not a taxable entity under the Constitution so HA. And the judge's pained expression as he realizes he's going to have to deal with this woman for several days before he can throw the book at her. Ochotonaprincepsnot a pokémon 09:56, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

This'll help with arguing and citing

Because I'm peed off with being charged ridiculous sums to read a paper. Sophiebecause liberals 07:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

So what does this mean for any of research joint funded by both industry and public research councils? Scarlet A.pngbomination 09:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
As an alumni of Manchester University (yes, the same physics department as Brian Cox!) I recently discovered that they are currently providing free online access to JSTOR. Redchuck.gif ГенгисGum diseaseModerator 14:17, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
If you are in the US, most State Universities offer public library cards, and with those, you can access their article references pages. You can't provide a link online, of course, but you can at least read them - which is something.Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons 16:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
About time. Science for the people! Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 22:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
But you've met people, right? Scarlet A.pngpathetic 09:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I met one once. He lives in my bathroom mirror. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 00:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I also forgot, if I'm going to mention Science for the People, the obligatory REDSREDSREDSREDSREDSREDS!!!!!! Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 00:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
My uni (Liverpool) has free reference access to the public, which surprised me. Down in London most of the Uni of London colleges (where I was before coming ooop north) charged a fortune for public access, and even then you still didn't get access to electronic resources at most of the libraries. Anything which makes research more publicly accessible is a step in the right direction, and from the article, I'm glad to read the EU is considering a union wide move in this direction. --TheEgyptiansig001.png 18:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Who should you support in the US Presidential Election?

Yes it's another of those answer-a-load-of-questions-and-get-told-who-you-should-support sites, but they're often interesting. I got a 96% match with the Greens, 89% Democrats, 84% Socialists, 43% Libertarian (!) and 7% Republican. I agree with Mitt Romney on "No major issues", which suits me fine. rpeh •TCE 10:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

56% Libertarian and 20% Republican? What the fuck happened?? Scarlet A.pngbomination 10:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
92% Democrats, 91% Greens, 23% Libertarians. As expected. Picon small.pngLiquid Blue 10:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
But "Should Congress raise the debt ceiling?" is an incredibly stupid question. Picon small.pngLiquid Blue 10:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Wait.... I just noticed one of the alternative answers is: "The Federal Reserve should destroy the $1.6 trillion in government bonds it now holds." My God... does anyone actually endorse such a solution? That could crash the economy of the whole world! MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, it's a government bond, so...Gold! Gold! Gold! Osaka Sun (talk) 16:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Actually, that's just money that the treasury "owes" the Fed, i.e., money the government owes itself. It would be the most common sense thing to just rip them up -- they don't really have any purposes outside of internal accounting and some bonus bucks for the Fed from the interest on the bonds. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 01:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
86% Democratic, 83% Green, 51% Libertarian, 16% Republican. I come very close to Ron Paul on social issues, but we're radically apart on other issues. Which is that I've long noted about the Libertarians -- most people are very impressed with some of their stances, then they say "are you fucking crazy?" about some other stances. (And Ron Paul is an evolution denier? I knew he was a libertarian zealot, but I thought he was intelligent at least.) MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) (talk) 11:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Paul was always an evo denier.
Anyways, 97% Green, 88% Dems, 39% Libertarian and 13% Republican. I was stuck with the birth control question - isn't coverage by prescription the exact same as giving a Yes answer? Osaka Sun (talk) 16:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
For amusement value, I decided to imagine I was Bizarro MDB, and give answers as far removed from my personal opinions as they quiz would allow. Virgil Goode was my candidate of choice. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
96% green, 86% Dem, 54% Libertarian, 13% GOP. Тytalk 17:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
75% Greens, 72% Dems, 31% Liberts, 7% Retards Republicans. --Rutherford (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I find it interesting that my stance on evolution will change who I should vote for in this quiz, Also 85% democrat, 83% Green, 64% libertarian and 39% Republican, though Jill Stein was 2 points off from Obama (83 to 85) for who i should vote for--il'Dictator Mikal 18:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
86% Socialist, 82% Green, 71% Democratic, 5% Republican. I find it hard to believe I side with Obama anywhere near 71% of the time, though the others sound about right. Q0 (talk) 19:19, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────89% Libertarian, 84% Republican, 57% Democratic, 33% Green, I be the odd one here. :P--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 20:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

87% Anarchist, 59% Astronaut, 0.4% Philatelist and 110% The Simpsons. What do I win? --2.34.113.53 (talk) 20:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

89% Democrat, 87% Green, 43% Libertarian, and 25% Republican Sam Tally-ho! 02:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

85% Republican, 83% Libertarian, 67% Democratic, 13% Green. I side with Mitt Romney 84%, Barack Obama 67%, and American Voters 58%. Pretty mainstream American, huh? nobsCorporations are people, too 03:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Parties: 79% Democratic, 78% Green, 57% Libertarian, 7% Republican. Candidates: 79% Barack Obama, 78% Jill Stein, 46% Ron Paul, 7% Mitt Romney, 15% "American Voters" (whoever the fuck that is suppose to represent). - π 03:26, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
87% green, 83%- I didn't see the option for ending the class struggle by returning the means of production to the people and creating an egalitarian society where all share freely of the public bounty. I would have selected that one--"Shut up, Brx." 04:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
83% Green, 76% Democratic, 64% Libertarian, 28% Republican; although, I feel I should mention on a number of issues I had no opinion on or didn't know enough about to have an informed opinion, and since I couldn't "abstain", I just guessed my opinion. Also, apparently there are no Pirate Party Presidential candidates in the US, since they have they frickin' Rent Is Too Damn High guy on there of all people. I think I'd agree most with them. --CoyoteSans (talk) 05:05, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
82% Green, 81% Democratic, 69% Republican, 63% Libertarian. Likewise. Some of the questions I didn't even understand, like "Do you believe in the theory of evolution?" I mean, what sort of question is that? And a few others like those on USian healthcare I had to guess. Also there weren't any questions about Obama's muslimness or which country should they nuke next. Ajkgordon (talk) 07:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I was 95% Green, 89% Democratic, 64% Libertarian and 13% Republican. This is weird since I would never vote for a Green politician. --Tweenk (talk) 16:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
The Green party in the US is less about environmentalism and more about democratic socialism. Honestly, I would have figured you for more of a libertarian. I'm pleasantly surprised--"Shut up, Brx." 17:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
83% Jill Stein, 79% Barack Obama, 74% Stewart Alexander, 59% Ron Paul, 21% Mitt Romney. I wanted Jimmy McMillan though. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 01:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
81% Green | 67% Democratic | 51% Libertarian | 18% Republican - 51% Lolbertarian?! WTF?! I'd rather gargle with my dogs puke. --TheEgyptiansig001.png 18:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Trolling Shell

Sorry to just linkspam, but this is brilliant. Basically, Shell are trying to crowdsource a new advert, and the Internet has responded beautifully. I don't imagine it'll stay up for long... rpeh •TCE 10:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

How is it brilliant? Because it fooled you into thinking it was actually by Shell? It's apparent that this does not require brilliance. It's crudely done and I'm surprised it survived a second glance. Or maybe you didn't give it one? 82.69.171.94 (talk) 10:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
No, because it's a damn funny parody of the real thing. The Symphony of Punk Can't sleep, clowns will eat me! 10:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Meh, sure enough KYM has an entry on this attempted forced meme. The Yes Men correspondingly go further down in my estimation for working with Greenpeace on the campaign. Would they still be "culture jamming" if they made a video where a fake Obama aide seems to admit that he's a Muslim intent on enforcing Soviet style central government? How about if they did it for the Republican party? Or would that finally be the moment where somebody realises "You're just another PR agency". 82.69.171.94 (talk) 11:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Because we burnt all the oil, and people still want plastics, dyes, medicines, coatings, fabric and so on, we need to go drilling for it in obscure places. This isn't entirely Shell's fault. Scarlet A.pngtheist 19:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

You know who I miss?

Carptrash. Whatever happened to that guy? Theory of Practice Years of being an atheist: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0. 13:41, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Compared to the weirdos who came after him, he's almost normal, and at least he played nice. Perhaps he can give us a wave if he's lurking. Sophiebecause liberals 15:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Last edited early 2009. Time sure does fly. ЩєазєюіδWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 18:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Raspberry Pi

So my Raspberry Pi's came in...now what? I'm thinking about installing one in the car. Any other ideas? I'm kicking around the idea of making my cat a cyborg. Occasionaluse (talk) 15:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Oy Vey.

There's this idea floating around in my (WOEFULLY UNEDUCATED) family (who's misson is to stop me from going to medical school) that "Obamacare" is causing doctors to quit in droves and clinics to be shut down. The supposed reason for the Systematic Destruction of Healthcare As We Know It is "doctors aren't getting paid anything anymore!!!" No other reasons were shared. Naturally, they heard this on Fox News. Do we have any healthcare professionals who'd like to comment and/or give me some choice quotes to explain WHY they're full of shit? :P 108.236.160.94 (talk) 15:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

With the health insurance mandate, doctors may very well be making more money, since more people will have health insurance. Actually, while I'm technically a healthcare professional, I'm not a doctor and I'm unemployed, so ignore what I said if you want an informed opinion--"Shut up, Brx." 15:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
"so ignore what I said if you want an informed opinion." Hammer. Nail. Head. Theory of Practice Years of being an atheist: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0. 16:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
We had that quote that was making the round on how 85 percent of doctors say ACA makes them want to quit, but when you actually looked at it was totally full of shit. Anyone have the link to that blog post dissecting it? Tmtoulouse (talk) 16:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure there's a record somewhere about the same stories floating around when universal health care was introduced in other countries. I was quite young when it happened in Oz, but I remember hearing people talk about how "all the doctors are quitting" and there would be "people dying in the streets". Now not even the most extreme right-wing politician would dare to suggest dismantling it. VOXHUMANA 01:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
In 2022 someone will call the US health care system "Obamacare", (probably as a lark) and the Republicans of the day will rise in protest saying that it was NEVER called "Obamacare" until some democrat [sic] called it that trying to make it theirs, (the dems). C®ackeЯ 01:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
@Trent, I think you mean this post. rpeh •TCE 05:59, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Last time I checked doctors are some of the most well paid professions in any place anywhere, ie all of socialistic Europe, with some quite steep educational life investment in order to get there. if they are "quitting" I'd like to know what else the hell they are doing. Working in McDonalds? Sen (talk) 14:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Michael Moore is intellectually dishonest.

I've never gotten over my profound disappointment in the Big Man, whose early work I loved, after he decided that it was okay to lie if it served his agenda. Specifically, it was one of the centerpiece arguments in Bowling or Columbine, the idea that Canadians own guns but school shootings are somehow an American problem, that ended my love affair with Big Mike. Really Mike? Really? You sure, Mike?. At least this guy waited until after you won the Academy Award for your mendacious work. Reason I bring this up? Another non-existent gun-related tragedy in Soviet Canuckistan. Guns. I hate them. Theory of Practice Years of being an atheist: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0. 16:18, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Wait before making a political analysis on this. I'm a Torontonian myself, and by all accounts these past few months have been rare. Gun crime rates are significantly lower up here regardless. Osaka Sun (talk) 16:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
No doubt gun crime rates are lower. But to make a movie about school shootings and use Canada as an example of a gun culture that works while ignoring its own school shootings was reprehensible. And that lower rate doesn't make me hate guns any the less in the first place. Theory of Practice Years of being an atheist: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0. 16:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
And arguably Coloumbine is fairly well-researched and balanced in comparison to what he did afterwards. Scarlet A.pngsshole 18:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't think Moore makes any claims of being balanced, does he? I sort of see his movies as presenting one side of an argument, which is fine, if that's what you admit you're doing. I think of a movie like Sicko the way I think of a prosecutor in a criminal case; they present the evidence that supports their position, but leave the counter arguments to others. I think Sicko does a decent job of presenting problems with the US healthcare system, but does a terrible job of presenting problems with the alternatives, instead making France seem like the land of milk and honey. But we hear about all the evils of socialized medicine from enough places that I guess we don't need him to tell us them as well. Just don't watch his movies thinking your getting a balanced argument. DickTurpis (talk) 22:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Isn't the fact, that he is selling his movies as "documentaries" kind of contradicting your argument? I was under the impression that documentaries were supposed to be kind of impartial. Don't get me wrong; I support Moore's standpoint but everything he did after Columbine was just purest partisan propaganda--Th. Bernhard (talk) 22:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure that "documentary" implies "NPOV". I don't read it that way, at least. They are nonfiction and are supposed to be basically factually accurate, but that doesn't mean they don't conveniently leave out facts that don't support their hypothesis. Yes, a very good documentary will be largely impartial, but I wouldn't call Moore's films the paragon of the genre. DickTurpis (talk) 22:21, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I had many many discussions about the NPOV of documentaries. All of them kinda pointless. I would say this: A documentary filmmaker may of course hold his/her own views, but they should not be forced upon the viewer. One of my most favourite documentaries is Fog of War. I've seen Errol Morris talk rather badly about McNamara, but his documentary leaves me the option to make my own decision about McNamara. That's something Moore rarely does. Btw: One of the scenes of Fahreheit that irritated me the most was about members of Congress volunteering their children. Would that even be legal in the US?--Th. Bernhard (talk) 22:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Having a point of view is fine. Leaving out easy-to-access information that directly contradicts the argument you are trying to present is what we call "lying." Theory of Practice Years of being an atheist: 30. Instances of persecution on that account: 0. 00:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I was also a huge fan but I lost faith in him with Farenheit 9/11. When I found myself defending Bush against his accusations, I knew he had gone WAY too far. (Case in point - "Ohmigod! The Secret Service are guarding the Saudi Embassy! What dubious, dodgy business is going on here???". Um, yeah the Secret Service also guard all of the other embassies, that's part of their freaking job. It's a requirement under Article 22 of the 1961 Vienna Convention, thus the Australian Federal Police guard all the embassies in Australia, etc. VOXHUMANA 00:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

To echo Theory of Practice's point: I Hate Guns. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Child forced to wear a dog shock collar and live in a chicken coop

The case hasn't come to court yet but it should be worth watching out for it. Proxima Centauri (talk) 17:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I didn't know Ty's parents had other kids. Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 17:26, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
one thing that shockes me is how many neighbors saw things, and said nothing. huh? You see a kid lugging rocks up a road in "bad shape" you report it.--Green mowse.pngGodotQu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons 17:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Side effect of the individualistic culture in this country, especially in certain areas like rural environments: other people's business isn't yours. Even when it should be. ±Knightoftldrsig.pngKnightOfTL;DRcritical thinking is the key to success! 17:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't like being nosy, but wrong is wrong. If I ever saw something like this I would call the appropriate authorities. -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:58, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
If they were really doing what the Bible told them to, the kid probably would have been dead a long time ago. Occasionaluse (talk) 17:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Maybe they thought somebody else had reported it? We talked about this in a psychology class, that people won't because they think somebody else will, or they just don't want to get involved. il'Dictator Mikal 19:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes yes, we all know the story about Kitty Genovese from PSYC 1001 or The Boondock Saints or The Watchmen. There's a reason why it's not a great excuse. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I shouldn't have laughed at that... Scarlet A.pngpathetic 18:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

OMG particle

Give it up, atheists! Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 19:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

It burns!!! Occasionaluse (talk) 20:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
God of the gaps in perfection. --Rutherford (talk) 21:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm tempted to put this in the External links section of conservatism. Almost all of them appear to be serious. Osaka Sun (talk) 21:24, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
"Jesus is the only God particle in my life...and the bible the only particle accelerator i need." Though, considering this is by someone called "@notkirk_cameron", I doubt it's sincere. Picon small.pngLiquid Blue 23:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Hollywood values redux

Since The Dark Knight Rises will be in theatres by the end of the week I'd suggest we start cracking down on "Christopher Nolan is pushing PATRIOT" and other claims.

See WIGO:World. Batman is now an Obama propaganda series to the far-right, apparently. Osaka Sun (talk) 01:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Kryptonite is a threat to God's intelligent design! — Unsigned, by: 99.235.129.26 / talk / contribs

Glad someone's already noticed this, I read the MJ version and was about to be scathing about this idiocy. -- Iscariot Andy Schlafly for Congress 2012! 03:36, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The issue has been raised at CP.
A few points as a comic book fan:
  • Bane has been a Bat-villain for nearly twenty years now.
  • He's already appeared in a Batman movie -- the abysmally bad Batman and Robin from 199
  • The writer who created the character (Chuck Dixon) is a conservative Republican, and one report I've read says he's concerned about the name similarity hurting Romney. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

New Wikipedia milestone

Don't know if anyone noticed, but Wikipedia now has over 4 million articles in English. Even though people all over the world have had eleven years and counting to create articles, that's still an impressive accomplishment. Sam Tally-ho! 03:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Even though it was created by a Randroid, Wikipedia is one of the best things about the internet--"Shut up, Brx." 03:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
14 to go until we hit 6000 here. We hit 5k last march.Тytalk 03:52, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
even though some of the articles were created by Brx, Rationalwiki is one of the best things about the internet. AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 03:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
[citation needed] — Unsigned, by: Doctor Dark / talk / contribs
[1]. AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 04:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
  1. Citation

<rant> Wikipedia was not created by a randroid. Jimbo merely paid for the servers (or more correctly, they were funded by his soft-core porn site Bomis). Larry Sanger (for all his other faults and failings) was the closest thing to a true creator WP ever had. Jimbo regularly refers to his Jan 2001 email laying out the "five pillars" as proof he "created" WP, but those five pillars came about as the result of discussions with Nupedia contributors, and for the first year of WP Jimbo hardly visited the site. Most editors didn't even know about him. Larry, on the other hand, was involved in every aspect of getting the site off the ground. </rant> VOXHUMANA 04:20, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Who cares, half of Silicon Valley are/were Randriods. AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 04:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I know, I'm more ranting against the whole "Jimbo created Wikipedia" myth. Because most of the 2001 WP data is lost, the only people who can debunk the myth are the handful of editors who were actually there at the time. But there are not enough of us to drown out the "official party line". VOXHUMANA 04:36, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Shall we ask Ed Poor to weigh in? AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 04:38, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Ed didn't even arrive until after Larry left. WP was a year old at that point. VOXHUMANA 04:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I was being a seafish facetious. AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 04:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, yes I knew that :). And I'm wrong anyway, it looks like Ed arrived just prior to LMS leaving in Dec 01 - there's an unsigned post on Nostalgia which I suspect is LMS telling Ed off for presenting his opinions as "fact" (scroll down two-thirds of the page, it starts with "Ed, with all due respect...") VOXHUMANA 04:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad to learn this, thank you VH--"Shut up, Brx." 04:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
No dramas. FWIW, during my little trip over to Nostalgia to look up Ed Poor I discovered the evidence of my very embarrassing LANCB from WP in Oct 2001. Lame, lame, lame. VOXHUMANA 05:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Was it as lame as your LANCB from RW? Heh. AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 05:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Worse. My RW LANCB looks quite dignified by comparison. VOXHUMANA 05:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Oh dear... AceThe Rep Grows Bigger 05:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Wow, LANCBing Wikipedia in October 2001 practically makes you a LANCB pioneer, at least as far as wikis are concerned. I suspect the first LANCB would have taken place on usernet back in the late '80s. - π 06:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
LOL... believe it or not, I'm pretty certain I was far from the first Wikipedia LANCB. I don't have the who/when/why details (the data is lost), but even back in Oct 2001 my LANCB was considered a banal event. VOXHUMANA 06:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Attention: Obese atheists

Just a reminder to join our fitocracy group. I don't know if you still need a referral to join, but if you do you can use mine http://ftcy.me/MQvy6g If enough people join we might be able to have another challenge. - π 11:45, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I just signed up (though I'm not an atheist. More of a nominal Christian leaning towards the agnostic.) I've just started walking regularly. I've been putting on weight since I quit smoking. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
You just got your first follower. - π 12:30, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Odd that a fitness site accepts e-cigarette ads. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:37, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Really? I use ad blocker so I haven't noticed. - π 12:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Really. There was one right on your page.
I did promise fitocracy I'd walk tonight, but I'm looking at the weather forecast. Feels like index of 99 degrees when I get home from work. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:50, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Aight, I joined. Too bad I just lost 17kg since I quit smoking which hasn't been logged :(. --GTac (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Pioneer anomaly solved

"The unexpected slowing of NASA’s Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft – the so-called “Pioneer Anomaly” – turns out to be due to the slight, but detectable effect of heat pushing back on the spacecraft." Fight amongst yourselves. --PsyGremlinParlez! 14:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

"Psygremlin" (what a ridiculous name), I've read your rant and I'm 95% certain that your clueless acceptance of relativity means you're a liberal who opposes classroom prayer. If you open your mind you will see that the theory of relativity is wrong. rpeh •TCE 15:10, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
You found me out, curses. It's all true - I oppose gun control in schools and eat babies for breakfast. --PsyGremlinPrata! 15:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Funny, I oppose baby control in schools, and eat guns for breakfast. (The AK-47 needed salt this morning.) MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 15:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

10 more to 6k

With ten more content pages, we can reach this next mark--"Shut up, Brx." 16:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Thought Michelle Bachmann couldn't get any crazier?

Think again! Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 17:19, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

That's not crazy, that's scary. She's basically advocating McCarthyism for Muslims. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 18:08, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Not that that's anything new. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 18:18, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
On a related note, John McCain reminds us why he was once the Republican Democrats admired. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 18:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
McCain is getting a lot of credit from teh eevil liebural media for this. I'd also like to raise a glass to him for taking the time to do something like this. rpeh •TCE 18:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
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