RationalWiki:Saloon bar

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This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Beer.gif For previous conversations see the automagic barchives. Friends.gif

What is going on?

The Bar
(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

  1. Should public libraries contain anti-scientific books? (16:12, 22 May 2017)
  2. Long term goals (08:25, 22 May 2017)
  3. Geocentrism (19:25, 20 May 2017)
  4. If I CALL my OPPONENTS smug I'm automatically RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! (15:49, 18 May 2017)
  5. Site name should be changed to Feminist Wiki (20:56, 13 May 2017)
  6. What would you say to God? (04:31, 6 May 2017)
To do list


Zero hour...

Well, it's getting near Zero hour Pyongyang time,,,they got light weight nuke subs off the West Coast...if this is thermonuclear Armageddon some of us might not make it, I just wanted say it's been fun knowing you guys. And if I don't make it, I'll put in a word for you with the good Lord and tell him you guys aren't the big assholes you want people to believe. And remember, if this really is the big one, it's Barack Obama's fault. Why do you think he's hiding out in Tahaiti? He knew it was coming. nobs

I'll save you a weenie for the big roast down under, nobs. I hear that they're only letting Hyper-Calvinists go upstairs. Bongolian (talk) 05:24, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Is anyone keeping a running tally of all the things nobs has been wrong about? It would be exhausting work but fruitful... Hentropy (talk) 06:21, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Watched the big parade on streaming video hoping to get a glimpse of nuclear annhilation. Those guys are good. They should book em for halftime at the Rose Bowl. Followed up by a bunch of Stalinist music videos. Don't they have any commercials? nobs 06:59, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, here's one of the commercials.[1] Bongolian (talk) 07:18, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
@Hentropy Well, something like that... Reverend Black Percy (talk) 12:49, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Don't worry nobs, we will be grilling in hell. Anybody got the Ketchup for the hot dogs?--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 18:07, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Our missile defense system appears to be working properly. Eyeball to eyeball with the Trumpster, the chickenshit backdown on the nuke (Note to any wannabe superpower: hand in hand with building any offensive capability, you must simultaneous design and build an expensive defensive system to protect it, ya stupid fucks). Who's next on the list? Hmmm, could it be those crazy fucks who think they can take out an American Supercarrier in the Straits of Hormuz....nobs 04:10, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Oh shit we have Obama to thank for N. Korean missile failures, better find something wrong with it nobs, and quick. Leuders (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
shhh, we need to keep the lid on some of this, especially (a) Trump is taking the advice of Barack Obama rather than Steve Bannon, that North Korean missiles are the biggest threat he faces taking office (in fact, now we know why Bannon got shitcanned from the NSC staff: he leaked the name of Susan Rice to Mike Czernovich as being one of the coup plotters) and (b) the Russian missile defense system has a 61% failure rate (36 of 59 got thru in Syria) whereas ours has a 56% failure rate. OMG OMG OMG. The Russians are approaching parity. Time to ramp-up the military industrial complex budget. nobs 17:46, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Can I recommend Defilada [2] to anyone who has the opportunity to see it. (talk) 21:43, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Brittany Pettibone & Lauren Southern

"Our own" Brittany Pettibone User:BrittanyPBone as well as Lauren Southern were scheduled to appear[3] at this riot in Berkeley today.[4] The park where the riot was scheduled was once informally known as "Provo Park", after the Dutch Provos.[5] Bongolian (talk) 02:06, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Your point being? We know that User:BrittanyPBone is a conservative/alt-right figure. There's no point in bringing up her presence at a protest in Berkeley. RoninMacbeth (talk) 02:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
No point in particular. Just though it might be of interest to someone. Bongolian (talk) 02:41, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
The riot was a confrontation between the frustrated and the brainwashed - the chief division in American politics today. I just can't sort out which side is which. nobs 06:44, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Though, we don't know that User:BrittanyPBone is actually Brittany Pettibone. Doxing is prohibited at this site, but suffice it to say, I've yet to see any official Brittany Pettibone channels acknowledge the RW account of the same name. Unless and until that happens... TL;DR: Assume impersonation until proven otherwise. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:49, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Next you'll tell me you're not an ordained minister. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:09, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
By the same token, we don't know that User:RobSmith is the same person as Conservapedia:RobSmith. Bongolian (talk) 18:47, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Trump: Should I laugh or be scared he is the President?

The way Trump (the Chump) is running things seems to be something to laugh at and something to be scared of. Which should I feel?--That Undead Centrist Schizophrenic (talk) 01:19, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Scared. This person has destruction at his fingertips and he doesn't seem like a very responsible or competent person. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 03:09, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
@RZ94: You frame this question like the two are contradictory. Laugh because you are scared. Know that, even if we are annihilated in nuclear fire, the Trump administration made for excellent snark bait while it lasted.
If, however, you want a more serious answer, I'd agree with LeftyGreenMario. RoninMacbeth (talk) 03:59, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Wait til Gingrich's book about Trump comes out in June. Gingrich says Trump is the first president who was never elected to anything or came from the military. So he's got 50 years life experience different from previous presidents and politicians, and you can't really expect him to act like them. Hopefully in the future there will be more people coming from outside government. So he's sort of a trailblazer as far as expectations go. nobs 07:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
'coming from outside government' haha that's hilarious. Its not like he's a man of the people. He was born into wealth with all the arrogance and entitlement that breeds. He's not trailblazing he's the modern equivalent of aristocracy, a continuation of how the worlds been run for a thousand years. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:56, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
He's the quintessential anti-politician. He's broken the monopoly traditional politicians have on the office. He can't be expected to think, behave, and talk like them. I'm sure other non-politician presidents in the future will hold different views, as likewise we will have someday a black president more representative of African-Americans' struggles and ambitions than that low-life piece of shit Obama was. nobs 19:24, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
hes lying, delusional, and dangerously incompetent. sounds like a traditional politician to me. you really buy into that 'anti-politician' bullshit? thats hilarious. i thought that was just to feed the proles while he fucks them. the only difference between him and the traditional politicians is inability to get any his bills through. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:16, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Someday you'll have a Mark Cuban or Oprah Winfrey serving in the office. They'll have the same dedicated cult-like follows, make the same missteps and misstatements, and be faced with the same opposition with gritted teeth accustomed to business-as-usual lying policians and politics. My point is, we should all be rejoicing the professional political class's monopoly on the White House has been broken (of which there is a consensus among voters of both parties and has been for a long time), and tailor our views of support or opposition accordingly. nobs 00:47, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Rejoicing? If your logic is correct, then Mexico has lost track of how many populist/anti-politician presidents we've had in the last couple of years. Ɀexcoiler Kingbolt Noooooooo! There's a roach on my Wall! 04:39, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
While the idea of someone from the outside shattering the iron grip the political elite had on our previous elections sounds comforting, I really don't think it makes up for damage Trump is poised to do. Sounds petty even, like a desperate excuse to avoid feeling nauseated that we have a clown behind our nuclear arsenal and climate policies regardless if this clown is a political elite or not. I'm all for a nice challenge of the elite, but it's got to come from someone that knows what he's doing. It's like proclaiming Marine Le Pen to be symbolic of cracking the glass ceiling even though she has reckless and terrible policies she'd like to impose. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 03:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

--Rbaja (talk) 21:10, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

black invention myth debunked says right winger

This discussion was moved here from RationalWiki talk:Saloon bar#black invention myth debunked says right winger.

Alright so i am browsing the internet looking at videos related to simone biles. I made the mistake of venturing into the jungle that is know as the youtube comment sections where i find a flame war. so here's this alt-right winger named im awesome with a pepsi as his avatar and he says

"youtube or google "Black invention myths debunked". The peanut butter one was done by a white man some 10 years prior to the black guy. Lights are definitely not a black invention."

For further context the video is in that link. you shouldn't have to scroll to far to see the wars unless your 20 years late https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqds04bRxQM

have any of you guys heard of this?— Unsigned, by: Rbaja / talk / contribs

That's actually right. George Washington Carver did not invent peanut butter, but the work he did do with peanuts was far more important.Teurastaja (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Yeah thanks for making me search for and find the ugliest web page I've see in years: tightrope dot cc slash Black-Invention-Myths. Leuders (talk) 14:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree with leuders. That website is awfully outdated by at least 25 years— Unsigned, by: Rbaja / talk / contribs

And by ugly I mean racist. Leuders (talk) 16:14, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I always saw it as a crime what we did to George Washington Carver- he had a very important impact in the post-civil war black population. I never learned about how he helped a bunch of people fight hunger and grow their communities, instead we just learned the covertly racist lesson "the best thing a black person ever invented was peanut butter" and that's not even freaking true. Hentropy (talk) 20:15, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
seems like a positive that he didnt invent peanut butter. that stuff is vile. just the smell of it turns my stomach. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:18, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Big Brother (TV show) with Trump, Putin and Kim among the contestants (who else could be included?) would be 'interesting.' (talk) 21:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

"Right side of history"

I saw this argument today somewhere for women's rights. While I have zero issues with advocating for women's rights, telling a person to support women's rights so they can be on the "right side of history" is just a bad argument. Better arguments can be made; like don't be a fucking asshole for example. The aforementioned argument speculative of what future views in a society will be and what the current issue will be seen as in the future. Is this topic worthy of an article?—CheeseburgerFace (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I think we could extend it to overall idea of a myth of progress, a very common ideology is some form or another that says civilization is always 'going forward' and can never 'go backwards.' Lord Aeonian (talk) 04:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
A bad argument to rationalists and wonks who want debate the substantive issues all night long, for sure. I wouldn't suggest arguing like that on the internet. But it can be an effective argument for some audiences- the people who opposed women's rights and civil rights in the 60s look like villains today, and no one wants to be that person. One of the mistakes a lot of activists make is not effectively "reading the room" and trying to tailor different arguments to different audiences. The history argument should never under any circumstances be the only argument made, though. Hentropy (talk) 04:18, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
The "reading the room to adjust the argument" is spot on, and incidentally Katharine Hayhoe mentioned that in her New Yorker radio interview:[6] start by getting people to agree with you, after that you can add challenging ideas. Bongolian (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
This probably could be profitably added to our article on progress. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 16:48, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Can Marine Le Pen break the glass ceiling? nobs 22:25, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
She'll break a lot of shit when she starts WWIII for realz this time. Hentropy (talk) 00:56, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Isn't it France's turn to start the next world war? Germany's had the last two. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 02:45, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Maybe her, May, and Putin can form the New Entente and Merkel can put on one of those pointy helmets, contemplating what to do when Hungary invades Serbia for no reason. WWI doesn't get enough attention, is my point. Hentropy (talk) 04:43, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I think its about time the US is in at the start of a world war instead of joining in at half time. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:16, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Appeal to identity

I was working on Blaire White. Almost all of the comments in her defense point to her trans status. This seems to be a fallacious argument made by both right and left. Indeed, Wikipedia's entry for Bulverism includes an entire section on the "appeal to identity" as a method to discredit people (as a kind of poisoning the well). Yet in my experience the fallacy is often aimed, not at discrediting a person, but instead supporting that person's opinion (as a kind of appeal to authority).

Does this merit its own page? FuzzyCatPotato of the Fanatical Leaks (talk/stalk) 21:36, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Sounds a little similar to the friend argument but not quite.—CheeseburgerFace (talk) 23:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
It is increasingly common but has always been around, specifically with female anti-feminists, black social conservatives, and figures like Milo before his self-implosion. Might be helpful to at least compile a list of the people who regularly employ this argument. It's kinda double edged as well, though, as lefty activists also employ it fallaciously. Hentropy (talk) 01:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Might be like an emotional appeal since it relies on the baggage of the mistreatment of minorities as a distraction and an easy to way to defend, and it doesn't actually evaluate the merit of the argument. It assumes that just because a person is a minority it automatically means the person cannot spout arguments demeaning to the minority groups the person represents (like a woman can't be anti-feminist). That's obviously fallacious, and the thing is, a donkey-cavity is a donkey-cavity no matter if the arguments demean the donkey-cavity's personal characteristics. If we don't have a page like this, wouldn't hurt to create one. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 03:33, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Absolutely, add it. A fallacy article seems apt as a non-political space in which to question the basic legitimacy of talking down to individual human beings as if they were somehow reducible to (or "responsible for") their gender, or sex, or ethnicity, or disability... etc. I mean, I can't be the only one here who finds it highly disconcerting to see how mainstream "calling people" on their skin color has become in certain circles. Actively fanning the flames of the toxic ingroup/outgroup bias innate to the apaloid human brain is most unwise. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
This seems like suitable content for a page, but what should we call it? Samstr (talk) 01:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Results from the Limerick Contest

First, I want to thank everyone who participated. When I started it a month ago, I had no idea that people would actually want to participate. It's nice to see that so many had the St. Patrick's Day Spirit, even in April.

Second, time to announce the winner(s). In first place, with twenty-two votes, is our great and powerful protector, the Goat! Give it up for the Goat, everyone! Quickly, before He turns His wrath upon the site!

In second place, with sixteen votes, is everyone. Yes, if you participated at all, you won second place! Because it turns out, having fun is all that matters! Well, that and not pissing off the Goat...or Trent...

In third place, with twelve votes, is User:Reverend Black Percy!

Honorable mentions are: User:David Gerard, User:RobSmith, User:Smerdis of Tlön, User:DiamondDisc1, and Donald Trump ('cause fuck it, why not?).

Once again, thanks to everyone who participated! RoninMacbeth (talk) 04:49, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

So does that mean RBP is locked out of 2nd place? What about the honorable mentions? Narky SawtoothNarky.png (Nyarnyar~) 07:56, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, in terms of set theory, I'm already included in "everyone who participated". Th hug.gif I also think nobs deserves a little credit for his Bannon limerick. Regardless, props to everyone who gave limerick writing a go! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:57, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
It had a good outcome. Everyone who had an idea spent breath, who would honestly be against that? Murmers and mumblings aside, I had a great time with the content. What fun Gaul Dernitt (talk) 05:34, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

It's alive! IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!!! (Kind of.)

https://plus.google.com/b/103925927135237916511/communities/118385254663497931588 First post to the RW Google+ account since 2014. RoninMacbeth (talk) 05:57, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Necromancy should be outlawed2d4chanfag (talk) 06:19, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Should it? Dammit, there goes my plan for an undead army...RoninMacbeth (talk) 07:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Nibiru redux

See the main article on this topic: Just asking questions

Is Nibiru an excuse to increase funding for FEMA camps? [7] nobs 14:13, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

What does your gut tell you? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Maybe if they increased funding for FEMA camps, the food would be better? nobs 01:19, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I never knew you'd endorse that kind of pork barrel spendingWikipedia's W.svg, nobs? Alaskan death camps where the migrunts get to eat gubmint cake all day long? It's a fantasy! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:24, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Let's hope they don't leave it out of the debt ceiling increase- if we all live long enough. Wait a minute, isn't NASA in bed with the Russians on the ISS? Now I'm really confused... nobs 02:51, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Jon Rappoport

Meet Jon Rappoport. A blog post from his blog, http://nomorefakenews.com/, was used on InfoWars. Here's a YouTube video on his YouTube channel of him to see what he's like:

Yes, this is his official channel, it was linked on his website. I double checked.

CheeseburgerFace (talk) 16:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

He's got some anti-vaxxer & illuminati stuff in his newsletters. nobs 17:23, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I am not familiar with this person. I don't even know what level of irony this video is supposed to be operating on. I am so confused. Samstr (talk) 00:13, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
And things are made stranger still by nobs' apparent admission to reading Rappoport's newsletter. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 00:18, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Rappoport has two other videos of him in the bathtub with his rubber duckies. According to nworeporter.com, "Innovative reporter Jon Rappoport fuses immersion journalism with bathtub humor in a sudsy new genre known as bathtub journalism."
here's a tweet:
Explosive details on the #Zika vaccine. Watch out---it will alter your DNA... http://bit.ly/2mzhmIl #RFKjr #Vaxxed
CheeseburgerFace (talk) 00:35, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This is probably not the time for me to be honest about how much time I actually spend editing RW from my smartphone... while in the tub. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 00:51, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This article first got my attention, cause in reading it, probably more than 50% of it both pro-Trumpers and anti-Trumpers could agree with it. Then a week later I get this one. I'm not ready to dismiss the guy as a total nut- bag yet anymore than I would John Podesta simply cause he dines with people who drink urine. nobs 01:03, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
The thing that really confuses me is the bizarre outfit. Why is he wearing a winter cap, 3d glasses and a bright yellow raincoat? I kind of like it, but I'm still confused. Samstr (talk) 01:42, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Found this gem:
If I want to defend the existence of manmade global warming, I attack the PERSON who argues that warming is pseudoscience— and I ignore the CONTENT OF HIS ARGUMENT. This fallacy is called ad hominem; “toward the man.” Or I find a person making an extreme and ridiculous argument against global warming: “The sun actually exudes very little heat, so warming is impossible.” I use that person as my Straw Man. I imply he represents ALL people arguing against global warming, and I knock him down. The Straw Man fallacy. It is extremely helpful to study these fallacies and become able to spot them.
Yep, Rappoport studies logical fallacies, so he can use them in his own arguments.—CheeseburgerFace (talk) 02:17, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
I read his three branches of logic post and it was ... strange. From what I recall of my formal logic class, there are two main branches, inductive and deductive reasoning. (Which produce probable and certain conclusions based on premises respectively.) Samstr (talk) 15:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)


Stupid question

I have a somewhat naive question maybe some of our UK users can give pointers on. American press and media often use the the terms, 'British govetnment' and 'British intelligence' which to me seems archaic and outdated dating back to WWII. Most 'British' publications seem to use UK instead. Is this observation on track? If so, how does one go about rehabiliting 300 hundred million Americans and its mainstream press to the correct usage and term?

It seems using 'British' for everything relat3d to the UK, is a term tied up with ethnic identity and similiar to the old misnomer of 'Indian' for Native American (which itself is a term frought with legal ambiguities. Barack Obama, for example, is a native American). Anywho, any pointers or suggestions would be appreciated. nobs 17:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I ain't no redcoat but it's my understanding (someone can still correct me) that using "British" is fine, it refers to the island and only leaves out Northern Ireland. If you're doing a news report it's most correct to use UK but I've heard British use the term British all the time- even on Brexit which was still called Brexit despite including NI and Gibraltar. So long as you're not using "English" too much. Keep in mind that if you're in the UK and talking about UK politics, you're probably just going to say "the government" or "the upcoming elections" just as people in the US are not that specific. Hentropy (talk) 17:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Us set here. As I understand it they don't mind foreigners using "British" since they have yet to find a more elegant way to say "UK-ish." (talk) 18:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
It's pretty much the way 'American' or 'Yankee' became the default descriptions of people from the USA, because United Statesian doesn't flow so well. My understanding is that "Britain" is the large island where England, Wales, and Scotland all are, but that "British Isles" includes Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, Isle of Woman, and Isle of Dog, as well as all the wee ones up around Scotland. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 19:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
This explains what each term officially refers to. Christopher (talk) 19:08, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
British is fine, UK is fine. Its no different to referring to the US as America. We all know what is meant. I refer to myself as British not UKer, the same way the op refers to themselves as american and not USian. I assume they are not Canadian or Brazilian. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
@christopher, your diagram is incorrect. It is not the united kingdom, it is the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Ain't my diagram. Christopher (talk) 20:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Close enough. Christopher (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

So, basically

Hope this helps! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 19:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

See also this image from our United Kingdom page:
British Isles Euler diagram.svg

Bongolian (talk) 21:06, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Don't forget the Manx, Berwick-upon-Tweeders, Rockallists, Gruanidians, and Channel Islanders. (talk) 21:37, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Now I know you Brits are just making stuff up. If you're going to come up with a bunch of fantasy race names then be more whimsical in real life at least. Hentropy (talk) 22:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Thread for crazy stuff you come across

Title says it all. Instead of spamming the website with multiple individual threads about these comments i propose that this single thread is the place for all crazy comments on the internet along with videos till 5/20/17 where a new one will be made.

I'll start with this

"Is it FACTS that make you an evil negative animal or is it the steroids you take in your uploads? ;) #Winning #YouEvenSquatBro?"

I just i don't even — Unsigned, by: Rbaja / talk / contribs

Start with signing your posts, please. ^^ On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. (You can indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line.) Thank you. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:07, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
What would it do that WIGO clogs doesn't? BicyclewheelToxic mowse.gif 11:02, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
Rbaja is a new user, (s)he probably doesn't know about the clogs or any of that stuff. Christopher (talk) 11:08, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Who else is joining the March for science?

It's tomorrow! I'm going! Go science!QuantumDudeI am beyond your understanding 16:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

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