RationalWiki:Saloon bar

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Saloon bar
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This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Friends.gif For previous conversations see the automagic barchives. Beer.gif

What is going on?

The Bar
(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

  1. No Stephen Lendmen? (20:53, 27 May 2017)
  2. Should public libraries contain anti-scientific books? (08:30, 27 May 2017)
  3. Long term goals (01:00, 27 May 2017)
  4. Geocentrism (02:13, 26 May 2017)
  5. Can we get improved link previews, like wikipedia? (07:06, 25 May 2017)
  6. If I CALL my OPPONENTS smug I'm automatically RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! (01:19, 19 May 2017)
To do list


What would happen

if Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un swap places?

Any other 'bizarre job-swaps'? (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

That would confuse the fuck out of Trump. He'd be thinking, Something's different today, I'm sure of it ... (talk) 19:06, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Well Kim's already got a wall. BicyclewheelToxic mowse.gif 14:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
What if Hillary and Melania swapped places? Hillary would be running the country while Democrats would be looking for a way to amend the Constitution so Melania can run. nobs 03:08, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
And Jeremy Corbin gets parachuted into the FBI vacancy. (talk) 22:56, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Donald Trump would probably enjoy running a personality cult. Church of the Rabid Zombie Squirrels
Who could Putin be swapped with? The Area 51 Rebuttal Group letter writing dogsbody? (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
I am pretty sure Steve Bannon is just Putin in a Klansmen outfit. Probuscus (talk) 09:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

How do you deal with emotional eating?

I have a problem with emotional eating, I was talking with my mom today and I mentioned the reason I probably emotionally eat is to hide my personal insecurities. Any tips? First Church of the Rabid Zombie Squirrels

This is one of those CBT things. Find the mental pattern you don't like, find a step in that thought process to insert a replacement action, develop new, healthier habit. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
Alternatively, beef tips aren't bad tips. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
It may also be the case that the actual eating is (in a relative sense) less of a problem compared to what you're eating. Do you happen to love apples? If so, you're in luck. They're cheap and plentiful, often sweet, take some time to chow down, offer some chewing resistance (helps tire out your jaws), and best of all — even better than just 'being healthy' (in this context) — they contain very little, aside from fibre and water. Especially the fibre part means you'll fill up rather quick on them. Not "satiety-full", but "better able to override a general eating impulse-full". Note also that I don't suggest just eating apples all the time. The primary solution here lies closer to what Ikanreed talks about above — i.e., seeing a psychiatrist and discussing CBT and/or medication — but what IS true is that adding atleast one sweet apple (though preferably two or more) as the first "dish" when comfort eating, and/or interspersing apples throughout your "meal" (regardless of if your eating habits are more "binge" or "constant snacking") will help you fill up a lot faster, for cheap, adding water and dietary fibre, without actually upping your energy intake all that much. This also works as part of a general weight loss strategy, btw — you'll find it surprisingly difficult to slay your typical size portion or steak if you've stuffed down an apple or two just prior to sitting down for dinner. Combining this with using smaller plates (onto which you still pile what looks like your ordinary portion size) can make a big difference over time. In short; if the eating is of the "nervous" variety, a professional (CBT/medication) should be your first stop. If it's more of the "munchies" variety, adding apples might be sufficient. Though, consider adding apples in both scenarios (and remember, always prior to ingesting the regular high-energy food!). "How do you like dem apples?" Hope this helps! All the best, Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:52, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
hit the gym. it'll improve your mood and self image, and you can eat whatever you like. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
...Ideally... But assuming limited time, energy, budget and/or self-control — better start with a visit to your psychiatrist's office. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
I tried the psychiatrist office but I only see the nurse practitioner as the doctor works mostly at the hospital, the nurse really did not know.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 16:21, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Emotional eating is not an uncommon complaint, so they should really be able to offer you more than just a shrug. Couldn't you try to book a meeting with an actual doctor (not a nurse) via phone? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 15:49, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Rationalwiki barn stars

If Rationalwiki developed a system of barn stars what would they be for? And should there be 'negative barn stars' (for those who really deserve them)? (talk) 21:54, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, I imagine that they'd be for really, really well done edits or quality comments. As for implementing the system? You'd have to ask someone else about whether or not it's a good idea. I suggest talking to the good Reverend. And the negative ones? Bad editors tend to have a reputation, so maybe it wouldn't necessary. Vive Liberté! 22:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
The Thumb's Up Barn Star for having a good line in put downs, the Melting clocks for 'stopped clock syndrome' (to convey what is meant), a child's windmill toy for those who refuse to budge from an untenable viewpoint, the Monty Python foot for ... (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Goat Barnstar.png

RationalWiki has a barn star. I hereby nominate the good Reverend for it. Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 00:24, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

If RW can avoid WP's unnecessary glorified sticker "barnstar" clutter, that'd be great. Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 06:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Exception for the goat barnstar, obviously. Herr FüzzyCätPötätö (talk/stalk) 06:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
We don't have barnstars, we have brainstars. As of me writing this there's only one image in this category though. Christopher (talk) 13:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
An opportunity for artistic RW-ians? (talk) 14:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Actually, we have an entire category of Barnstar award templates. I was awarded the Beerstar five years ago. I remember being given the Half-stale cookie as well. I can't see it on my talk page now, though. Anyway, you don't have to nominate a user for a Barnstar. You just give it to him or her by leaving a talk page message. It might be nice to spread a bit more love by giving them out more often. Spud (talk) 07:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
How does the barnstar system work ? Who decides to give, for exemple a beerstar to someone ? Diacelium (talk) 12:53, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
From reading through long gone users' talk pages, you just make a new section titled "a barnstar for you" or "here's a half eaten cookie" and put the template there. It appears to have fallen out of use. Christopher (talk) 12:58, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
*excited anticipation* oh boy oh boy Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Will RBP's make reference to the relevant tartan? (And any connection to the person of the same name 'the pet webspider' finds?) (talk) 21:22, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
There should be more acknowledgement of 'reasons for praise' for activity on RW. (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

ITT: nobs guesses wildly speculates about Assange

What do you think? An effort to lure him out so they can whack him?nobs 16:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

So far he seems to be too smart for that. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 18:13, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Could be trying to give Ecuador an excuse to unload their freeloader. Supposedly, he's still wanted on a minor charge in the UK. Bongolian (talk) 18:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
assange was never at risk of deportation, assassination or extraordinary rendition. he was and is too high profile for that shit. hes not even wanted in the us, despite a lot of talk. it was all paranoia and ego. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Question: if he had calmly gone to trial in Sweden and 'got some clever legal and other people to do negotiations' and done some plea bargaining etc - would he still be in prison? (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
deportation to the US i mean. Definitely would have gone to sweden. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
The conspiracy theories have begun...Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 22:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
What's sad, even tho he's free to walk out the gate, there still is no place to go. Except perhaps Moscow. nobs 01:55, 20 May 2017 (UTC)


It's a temporary suspension because they're unable to reach him, y'all. If it doesn't get brought back up, it'll be because he managed to evade long enough to pass limitations and whatnot. Narky "Cuddling" SawtoothNarky.png (Floof!~) 20:56, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

He's been there 5 years. Then, in the past 6 mos we learn Hillary wants him dead, and Pence & Pompeo want to see him in and orange suit for the rest of his life, which is the same thing. Then suddenly like magic, ok, you can come out now (after his two lawyers familiar with the case meet an untimely demise). nobs 04:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Poll- what words come to mind when you hear the name, "Trump"

Here is some- Plague, virus, infection, festering wound, cancer, rat, monster, jack ass, shit head, snake oil salesman. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Yakety Sax (talk) 18:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
There's actually a pro Trump video featuring Yakety Sax as a music bed. Leuders (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
'The last...' (talk) 21:17, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Me thinks there's an impeachment in the horizon --Panzerfaust (talk) 21:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
Ultimate Goat!!!--S.H. DeLong (talk) 03:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Apotheosis of American culture. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 18:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Remembering that he was in the WWE. 2d4chanfag (talk) 05:58, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Bleh!-D1@m0ndD15c1 (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Word Wildlife Executive?
Welterweight Wrestling Exhibitionist?
Wonky Worldview Expressionist?
Even the captcha joined in - suggesting 'underpants' (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Speaking out of my butthole and using my semi-fallible sense of political instincts, I think the anti-Trump resistance is backfiring. The Tea Partiers and birthers never rose to the level of vitriol and hatred that streams out 24/7. What it's doing is strengthening Trump. Don't believe it? By all means, compare Trump to Nixon. Nixon remains to this day, the most popular vote getter in the nation's 228 year history, save George Washington.
I never was an enthusiastic Tru!p supporter. I'd still vote for him over Hillary Clinton. But with each senseless barb aimed at him, my sympathy grows. I even felt the same way toward Obama in his early presidency, until Obama started lying and fuckin up.
Sooner or later Trump will address the nation in a primetime Oval Office speech. It won't be like past presidents. And he's gonna put the mindless cocksuckers in their place. nobs 02:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

A good PragerU video?

This one doesn't seem disagreeable at all. Lord Aeonian (talk) 23:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount them entirely. This video about the causes of the Civil War gets straight to the point. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 01:25, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
The common thread between those two good videos is that they seem to feature people who know what the fuck they're talking about. It does sort of handwave the very real threat of anti-Muslim hate crimes as unimportant, it's largely a good video. They even tapped Ayaan Hirsi Ali for another video on Islam which is surprisingly good, at least in the sense that it's not hopelessly warped in favor of a single worldview. Hentropy (talk) 07:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm just glad to see we're doing our best to combat splittingWikipedia's W.svg. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:08, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
It just has the high cost of having 5 Prager video recommends in every video I watch now. Hentropy (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Moar stupidity incoming

I've found here a pair of evangelical radio stations, that come with the usual BS of them -most of it "canned" from US churches- (the gems I remember include negating evolution, Paul's misoginy, the second coming as well as the BS that appears in the Book of Revelation being near, complaining about nobody talking about Hell just about Heaven, NWO BS, and of course begging for monies). It seems all that stupidity is coming here, even if thank Gods it seems nobody gives a fuck about them, like the JW.

It's still worrying their desire of evangelizing everyone here. --Panzerfaust (talk) 12:23, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

There are several genres of religious radio active in these parts today. The newest format, and the one that seems to be gaining in popularity, is Christian pop music, branded with names like "K-Love" and "Positive Hits." These stations play bland, watered down, heartless soft rock music. Then there is christian talk, mostly preaching and/or right wing politics, as exemplified by the types of radio formats used by Salem Radio Network. Old croaked Harold Camping's network, Family Radio, is still around with nonstop church music and bible readings. The Catholics have their EWTN network with stations all over the place, too. The worst of all (and these are all pretty bad) is American Family Radio, which is a glorified regressive right wing hate factory propped up by pious beliefs. Various church organizations have abused loopholes in government regulations and have established large networks of low powered FM transmitters. And this is just what's found on the medium wave (AM) and FM bands here on the east coast of the USA. Shortwave radio originating from the US is dominated by religious programming, including some of the most insane fringe programming.
Broadcast band radio is slowly dying, killed by the internet. However it's still a fertile ground for the Christian evangelicals.
Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 12:52, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Right now, terrestrial radio as a whole is experiencing what AM radio went through in the '50s and '60s with the rise of both FM radio and television. Back then, the pop music moved to FM and the dramas and comedies moved to TV, leaving AM radio with just a) oldies aimed at middle-aged-and-up listeners who were still loyal to their old stations, b) news, talk, sports, public radio, and emergency services where the long reach of AM signals was more important than sound quality, and c) religious stations. Now, with the rise of smartphones, the once-captive markets of commuters and at-work listeners now have alternatives to the radio, so pop music is migrating to streaming services. It's hit modern rock especially hard. Rock music led the way in moving to the internet with the MySpace-driven emo boom in the 2000s, such that it was the first to start dying on terrestrial radio, with most modern rock stations moving to an "active rock" format that incorporates a lot of classic rock to pull in older listeners. I noticed it happening in New York as early as 2006. In the other direction, the changes in radio are also part of the reason why country music is so big right now. In 2017, the Venn diagram between country fans and people who prefer radio over streaming contains a lot of overlap — they're both older, more rural demographics who may not have, or even want, smartphones capable of hassle-free streaming. Radio broadcasters are flocking to them, and a number of non-country artists, from Jon Bon Jovi to Kid Rock to Miley Cyrus, have started moving in a more country direction in order to shore up a fanbase that they know will spend money on CDs. (There was a great bit in Grand Theft Auto V where a parody of Paula Deen has a famous pop star as a guest on her show. Said pop star just switched to making country music and taking on a Southern accent and a right-wing culture warrior persona, and she basically admits that she did it as a sellout move to pander to the one demographic that "doesn't have a clue what downloading is.")
Looking at my local radio stations, I see that South Florida is well along this path. Up in West Palm Beach, you've got an oldies pop standards station and a K-Love affiliate occupying prime real estate at the center of the FM dial. Ten years from now, Top 40 pop music and hip-hop are likely going to have followed modern rock music onto the internet, with many stations in those formats moving to adult contemporary, urban contemporary, or oldies in order to keep going. You'll also see a lot more sports, news/talk, and of course, religious stations on FM radio. I've been noticing ESPN Radio colonizing the FM wavelength in a few cities over the last few years, and it doesn't look like it's slowing down. KevinR1990 (talk) 17:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
What do I think? Listening to gospel music is a great way of practicing your beliefs without actually thinking about what it entails. It keeps up with the times to make sure it doesn't try to stand out. Makes the religious feel modern, feel up to date. It maintains normalcy in the most religious body of power in the world. It makes them feel like they are progressing, when in reality they are not. When you listen to music played in the style of blues and country, you don't get that.
Being a religious person person myself. One who enjoyed and delved into the realms of hard rock to extreme metal. My piers called me a redneck for a reason. You know. I only go here for one reason, and that's because I came across a statement that described religious people as degenerate pieces of garbage. You know, like me. Every time I think about those statements. I wouldn't be bothered to listen to music. Sometimes not for weeks, just knowing people hated you. I've become extremely hostile towards my friends because of it.
I guess I really am a religious tool. Breadbasketbomb (talk) 09:51, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
The stations I mention are harmless compared to those you mention and do not emit gospel music, or at least not what you in US understand as that. All the music broadcasted there is Christian pop or at best rock (no metal). As for the content, most is harmless -just talking and talking about Bible passages and Christ, asking a minister to pray for someone or something...-. What concerns me are those bits of NWO -Catholic Church included-, negation of Evolution, talking about the Revelation events going to happen, or even already happening and similar gems of BS. Those things are not seen the same way when you've them closer, even if nobody gives a fuck about them, than when they're at thousands of kilometers away.
Another issue are people preaching, even if fortunately Chick tracts have not arrived here (yet). Not those as JW or others, who are on transited places giving brochures -and just targetting immigrants, by the way-, or those who simply are there singing or whatever but those who assault you with a Bible or brochures of their churches for... you know, and even if you're not interested and give them your arguments keep harassing you (I've had issues with that kind of people). Some time ago, a woman who likes to preach in the subway transversing the entire train several times got into a discussion with someone who disliked her ideas. It ended with her being thrown out of the train as she began to say (in loud voice?) said man was a sinner, or at least that's what I was told.
Long history short, if I'm interested in what you've to offer I'll go wherever is. Otherwise, whizz off. --Panzerfaust (talk) 13:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
A reminder for people to check their homonyms - piers and peers.
As for the 'stand and deliver (message deliverers)' - 'by their deeds shall you know them' and 'talk is cheap' (and the person who picks up a bit of rubbish and puts it in the bin has contributed more to the world). (talk) 16:49, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

The Grauniad is starting to become a waste of time...

...or at least this video on the First Lady seemingly refusing to hold Drumpf's hand is by itself a waste of 13 seconds. Is this news site becoming so reactionary to everything Trump does it risks becoming a gossip magazine? A conspiracy site? Good thing the site didn't ask questions as to why Melania didn't notice him holding out his hand. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 22:32, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

All the half decent British newspapers are shriveling up, and their websites are becoming more clickbaity. It looks like soon only the crap like the Express and Sun will remain. (talk) 15:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
As we speak news like Fox and the Sun are dying off and being replaced with Breibart. So it's probably even worse than that. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 02:07, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Basically the sane newspapers are drifting towards neoliberalism, and the ones that are already so (CNN, NBC) are Democrat apologists. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 02:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

hawt R nawt

https://u.nya.is/ummkji.png https://u.nya.is/hmdeuf.png https://u.nya.is/zvhpkz.png https://u.nya.is/qrwpll.png https://u.nya.is/uwkvea.png https://u.nya.is/losdln.png

this user possesses genuine curiosity and enquires as to the opinion of others regarding such manner of racy advertisement clickbaits and the encounter rate of these ads on the end of the others.FAMAS (Talk) (Contribs) [[1]] [[2]] 14:35, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Who cares? Christopher (talk) 15:19, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
"... encounter rate of these ads on the end of the others." What? (talk) 15:25, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
FAMAS isn't particularly easy to understand, I think "encounter rate of these ads on the end of others" means how many people click on these ads? I have no idea. Christopher (talk) 15:28, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I think he means 'how often do other people see ads like these?' FAMAS, you know that Google gives you ads based on browsing history, right.. I'm a fair and just man 18:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Why are you so obsessed with clickbait? you've posted about it before and you were very adamant that your post stayed. Christopher (talk) 15:42, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Possibly 66 (anyone wish to contort the (James) 1 or 6 into the reference?) (talk) 16:58, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
>Not uesing add blocker in 2017 2d4chanfag (talk) 02:50, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Famas: Use Adblock, you'll almost never see ads like this again. Ads like this suck, they're just "sex sells" in pixel form. At least the "MIRACLE DIET" or "DOCTORS HATE THIS" ads have some funky images. Herr FüzzyCätPötätö (talk/stalk) 03:24, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Famas ...aand that's enough serial link pastes out of "that user" for quite a while, thanks. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:03, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

id rather see an ad or two if it means getting content gratis. i am more concerned when ads tailored to what google discovered from reading your emails.AMassiveGay (talk) 05:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Article on online media manipulation and disinformation

Media Manipulation Up th uhhand Disinformation Online by Alice Marwick and Rebecca Lewis. It's a dive into attention-hacking efforts, with a particular focus on far-right radicalization. Understanding why their methods work might help us refute them more efficiently. It's also a decent read. Here's the executive summary:

*Internet subcultures take advantage of the current media ecosystem to manipulate news frames, set agendas, and propagate ideas.
  • Far-right groups have developed techniques of “attention hacking” to increase the visibility of their ideas through the strategic use of social media, memes, and bots—as well as by targeting journalists, bloggers, and influencers to help spread content.
  • The media’s dependence on social media, analytics and metrics, sensationalism, novelty over newsworthiness, and clickbait makes them vulnerable to such media manipulation.
  • While trolls, white nationalists, men’s rights activists, gamergaters, the “altright,” and conspiracy theorists may diverge deeply in their beliefs, they share tactics and converge on common issues.
  • The far-right exploits young men’s rebellion and dislike of “political correctness” to spread white supremacist thought, Islamophobia, and misogyny through irony and knowledge of internet culture.
  • Media manipulation may contribute to decreased trust of mainstream media, increased misinformation, and further radicalization.

The FCP Foundation (talk/stalk) 03:42, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. Reminiscient of the vogue media manipulation strategy known as trading up the chainWikipedia's W.svg, no? And actually — at this point, we should probably be writing RW its very own article on media manipulationWikipedia's W.svg. Thoughts? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Back when leftists were still able to score political successes, they freely used comedy and troll tactics. Remember Abbie Hoffman? Roel van Duijn? Lenny Bruce, even? The current left have made themselves quite unattractive by acting like a pearl-clutching establishment smug in their self-anointed moral superiority. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 17:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Speaking of left-wing trolls, did you miss this?[3] Bongolian (talk) 20:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
@Smerdis ...so that came off sounding a tad defensive, don't you think? All I was saying was just; "Hi Ratwikians! We should have an article on all sorts of media manipulation, because that stuff would be good to learn about, right?". Aside from that — I don't even speak partisan, so... I'm really just left nodding and smiling in confusion. (e.g "Back when leftists were still ableWikipedia's W.svg..."? *nods and smiles confusedly*) Reverend Black Percy (talk) 22:47, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Well, maybe. I'm more reacting to the content of the PDF in question. It made a number of good points, but I thought it undermined itself somewhat by referring to 'male privilege' and similar constructs as self-evident truths, and other evidence of Not Getting It. And what's most vexing is that those bits of the text appear in the middle of passages that seem to accept that this troll culture consists mostly of very marginalized people, for whom the promise of 'male privilege' is about as bankable as junk mail from Publisher's Clearing House. It may well be a text meant for the edification of believers rather than evangelism, but the effect is rather like having your own behavior analyzed in terms of original sin, which would likely annoy you as a rhetorical turn. Contemporary identitarian leftism seems to produce more theologians than evangelists, and more would-be inquisitors than either; but this may be true of all faiths at all periods. What is the color of the pill to take that makes you a believer in things like 'male privilege'? - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 02:48, 26 May 2017 (UTC)


A substantially less venerable forum has also mentioned us. I thought "kizzmybutt", "Snarelure", "Gigastrength", and "King_Martha" had somewhat decent thoughts. Herr FuzzyKatzenPotato (talk/stalk) 03:42, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't click on that link if I were you, it sent me to some scam website saying I had viruses. Christopher (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Seems fine to me. (I've Adblock, if that matters.) αδελφός ΓυζζγςατΡοτατο (talk/stalk) 15:56, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
It's fine now, just went on it again. Christopher (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Not too sure myself. It is a 13 months old site hosted in the USA to a c/- spanish address, a gmail account, and in the name of a gentleman who also owns a few dozen other addresses, which all seem to be mainly scrapes of 4chan hosted in various countries with the same names/address/email/phone. There's a few orange flags on his LinkedIn account, but they might be translation ambiguities.
Thrice in 7-8 different pages on his sites => giving focus to the page tried to run an instance of PHP mCrypt - a buggy, depreciated encryption command which hasn't been updated since 2007 and has been declared abandonware. Considering the background on his LinkedIn that just shouldn't be something any page of his should be doing.
I've intentionally not cited sources to err on the side of caution with regards to the obvious, but yeah this is a site I'm going to avoid. Daev (talk) 17:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
I was proud to see that the many posts recommending RW came not from people who were fanatically promoting RW as flawless — but rather, from people who were themselves psychologically capable of taking the good with the bad and integrating it all into a cohesive, nuanced and generally fair account (read: people who were not overcome with splittingWikipedia's W.svg).
Furthermore, I enjoyed observing how the vast majority of the anti-RW commenters — triggered gators/manospherians/kekistanians/woomeisters aside — came from people who obviously had not read the two most important articles for getting a clue about what RW is even about.
All in all — every instance of frank opposition to RW came from various incompetents, while none of our supporters came across as mouth-frothing zealots even in recommending our site. In other words: win-win. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Incompetents!?! I'm not even a dissenter! Oh, Crap, I just took exception to something that wasn't explicitly about me, didn't I? Ask me about the Keystone XL five years ago. Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:07, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Unrelatedy AF

Also you guys are forgetting family and fetal alcohol syndrome. Democrats are bad because UNions are bad because dad Isn't union. Not joking, this is a real/impossible to defeat argument. I guess it's nihilism for this boy scout Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Lindsay and Boghossian's Sokal-style hoax: What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts on James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian's antics via their Sokal-style hoax "The conceptual Penis as a Social Construct", where they basically tried (and, in my opinion, failed) to take gender studies down a peg. And what's happening to the atheist/skeptic community? It's all about point-scoring now.Levi Ackerman (talk) 08:07, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

My neat and ordered two cents: PZ nails this one perfectly (and similar conclusions on the stunt are drawn by others here and here). And I say that especially as a fan of the original Sokal hoax. I honestly think Boghossian made himself look kinda stupid pulling this move (assuming PZ has all the facts straight in his analysis).
My messy fistful of unsorted change: as far as I'm aware, I'm certainly no enemy of Boghossian (admittedly, I keep few enemies). In other words, I have no prior beef with the man — though, I must admit I don't know much about him (or the company he keeps). Much of what little I know of Boghossian comes from the fact that he has, on occasion, said (or written) some short saying I've deemed as fully quoteworthy.
I also happen to own one of his books (Manual for Creating Atheists), and while I found it to feel much more "broscience"-y (think Joe Rogan in its style and tone) than I had anticipated, it was ultimately not without its merits, either. I would probably recommend it on its own — however, if I was asked to recommend it comparatively; e.g. via listing my personal "top Atheist books", then atleast some 30-odd titles (all from other authors) would score higher than it on my list.
So, then — speak of the harm wrought by attempting to flame too gleefully — I'm not here to spew vitriol on a longstanding nemesis or something. But, conversely, I'm not here to wash a snowy white and wipe the man's bottom, either. In short, I'm Lawful Neutral on the issue (and on Boghossian). But even so, I personally find that two things in particular stand out about this whole stunt, which just make me cringe in real life.
Firstly; the fact that this stunt is just so painfully derivative — even to the point of openly trying to leech cred from Sokal's brilliant original hoax. Forget paying homage to Sokal; instead, based in part on the impression made by their unwarranted confidence in their "findings", they seem to have been claiming this as the "Sokal 2.0"! But any new and improved Sokal hoax, this is not. Never mind the fact that — back in the day — Sokal had himself graciously pointed out that no wild conclusions could be drawn, even from his (successful) "experiment". Boghossian, in all his drive to ape after Sokal, apparently missed that side of the original story.
Secondly; Boghossian just seems filled with schadenfreude — basically, foaming salivating visibly by the mouth. And not just to the point of it all becoming a bit unappealing, but — crucially — to the very point where Boghossian seems to lose hold of which conclusions, if any may reasonably be drawn about gender studies (read: his favorite anti-fandom) on the basis of his failed stunt.
And that's a sad sight on its own — the fact that Boghossian seems so horny fired-up to just bash gender studies, no matter what, that even an objectively pointless stunt (like the one he just pulled) is being promoted to the world by him as if it were some sort of "significant blow" or milestone in a struggle. It's certainly neither.
And, best/worst of all (take your pick), the stunt failed not by virtue of any particular quality inherent to gender studies, per se — but because the stunt itself was so incompetently designed and executed in a manner so profoundly lacking in purpose. I mean, I'm frankly amazed Boghossian didn't just scrap the whole project when they had to start reaching for the checkbook in order to force this thing past the very same initial hurdle it would've had to have passed on its own for the stunt to have any semblance of a point to begin with. It boggles the mind (sunk cost bias, anyone?).
I mean, even as a sort-of "relative peer" of his — certainly a well-wisher — I simply am not able to follow Boghossian here, in his highly personal (and, clearly, emotionally motivated) line of reasoning. And never mind following it — even then, Boghossian's stunt just looks rather silly from the outside. I imagine, even when seen from the flattering ideological vantage point of "right next to him".
In other words; my critique of Boghossian's stunt ironically has about as little to do with the actual state of gender studies as Boghossian's failed hoax has to do with the same. As a tediously obvious aside: of course there are problems, both numerous and varied, which do indeed plague much of contemporary gender studies (broadly speaking). This comes as no surpise, considering that all non-stagnant areas of the humanities are beset by issues. Though — depending on the metric by which you measure — certain outstanding issues are doubtless unique to the field of gender studies. But I digest. At any rate, I hope I've been perfectly upfront about my ongoing satisfaction with the original Sokal hoax.
So, as such — assuming I haven't underestimated how redpilled Boghossian might have become as of late — I'm likely front row center in Boghossian's intended target audience. I should be the easiest for Boghossian to impress here. And yet, all this stunt did was gross me out a bit.
Indeed, I'm making this critical case based on the simple impression — which must surely be recognizable to anyone who isn't as blinded by personal axe grinding as Boghossian — that, plain and simple, this particular stunt just isn't any type of purported "reasoned exercise in postmodernism vs the Enlightenment" or the likes. Instead, this whole thing seems to me primarily a product of unchecked biases — not of 'reason', in any Enlightenment sense.
And reading through it all — once the dreadful labouring of the point (in this failed stunt) is allowed to shine through — is, psychologically, sort of like being invited to sit through an embarassing airing of Boghossian's own dirty laundry.
It's a bit like witnessing one gargantuan Freudian slip of sorts, on the part of Boghossian. Adding insult to injury, Boghossian (as town crier) megaphones this whole charade to the public as decidedly "a failure on part of the enemy", as opposed to something like "a patently weird move on his part". The cringe is real. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Can it be described as a c--- up? (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Can? Absolutely. Should be? *insert 3000 page pedantic internet argument where the people who are probably right give up and go home, leaving a small circlejerk behind*. The short version of my opinion is that you really can't undermine the credibility of a field by proving that there are credulous people involved with it somewhere. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:59, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Especially when that "credulity" was the result of you bribing them to please accept the very same nonsensical "gender studies" paper you — a minute later — indignantly spin around to loudly complain you "just can't believe got accepted" Facepalm.png This whole stunt really does come across as mean-spirited, compared to the genuinely witty Sokal hoax... Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:54, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Previously discussed here. I call bullshit on them. They had a point about predatory journals, but they had the nerve to jump the gun until they hit the mesosphere to say that "gender studies are powered by man-hating folks" because a low-impact pay-to-publish journal had published a research paper equivalent to a used sanitary napkin. Though their paper is intentionally unreadable, their post on Skeptic has a wordy writing style that makes it difficult to comprehend. It comes naturally to them that their writing sucks. They can look at themselves if they want examples of terrible writing because, god, they're a chore to read.

This already damning characterization of our hoax understates our paper’s lack of fitness for academic publication by orders of magnitude.
However, in the short term, pay-to-publish may be a significant problem because of the inherent tendencies toward conflicts of interest (profits trump academic quality, that is, the profit motive is dangerous because ethics are expensive)
These facts cast considerable doubt on the facile defense that Cogent Social Sciences is a sham journal that accepted “The Conceptual Penis as a Social Construct” simply to make money. As a result, wherever Cogent Social Sciences belongs on the spectrum just noted, there are significant reasons to believe that much of the problem lies within the very concept of any journal being a “rigorous academic journal in gender studies.”
Sokal’s aim was to demonstrate that fashionable linguistic abuses (especially relying upon puns and wordplay related to scientific terms), apparent scientific authority, conformity with certain leftist political norms, and flattery of the academic preconceptions of an editorial board would be sufficient to secure publication and thus expose shoddy academic rigor on the part of postmodernist scholarship and social commentary.
The scientific community was exuberant that Sokal burst the postmodern bubble because they were fed up with postmodernists misusing scientific and mathematical terms to produce jargon-laden nonsense and bizarre social commentary carrying the apparent gravitas of scientific terminology.
The most potent among the human susceptibilities to corruption by fashionable nonsense is the temptation to uncritically endorse morally fashionable nonsense. That is, we assumed we could publish outright nonsense provided it looked the part and portrayed a moralizing attitude that comported with the editors’ moral convictions. Like any impostor, ours had to dress the part, though we made our disguise as ridiculous and caricatured as possible—not so much affixing an obviously fake mustache to mask its true identity as donning two of them as false eyebrows.
Sokal exposed an infatuation with academic puffery that characterizes the entire project of academic postmodernism. Our aim was smaller yet more pointed. We intended to test the hypothesis that flattery of the academic Left’s moral architecture in general, and of the moral orthodoxy in gender studies in particular, is the overwhelming determiner of publication in an academic journal in the field.

--It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 22:49, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

What a joke. Firstly, I detest recieving a lecture on the impact of the (admittedly wonderful) Sokal affair from two people who barely seem to have understood it properly themselves — as if my calling out the stillborn nature of their bastardized version of Sokal's ingenius plan places me under direct suspicion of being some sort of gender studying postmodernist myself!?
Popper would turn in his grave at the sight of such an overly flexible model of interpretation — if we praise their stunt, that proves gender studies are stupid; and if we lambast their stunt, that also proves gender studies are stupid. (And my argument isn't even that "gender studies aren't stupid", for that matter.)
A lecture, for the record, seemingly being given primarily so that the lecturers may bask themselves in the reflected glory of Sokal's historic stunt (they'll need it) and, likewise, to defensively wrap themselves in the guise of Sokal, in the hope that the tomatoes we so deservedly pelt them with be mistaken, by some passersby, for the mere unjust vengeance of a rightfully Sokal-hoaxed gaggle of haters. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 23:19, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

UK elections are so fucking exciting

It's like watching a TV show or something. Will Tony Blair get put in the Gulag ? Will Tory tears become a national drink ? Is May actually trying to lose ? The wait is to long, I can't stand it.

On a more serious note, what do you thing will happen ? Diacelium (talk) 21:13, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

trump will some how win... don't ask how. (Maybe the Russians know) 2d4chanfag (talk) 22:39, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
See, this is why liberal journalists have no credibility. 20 years ago, both men and women journalists made it a point we should know they all had a big boner in their pants for Tony Blair. Now they ask, 'Where did this piece of shit come from?'. nobs 03:07, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Final Definitive Proof of Intelligent Design

June Bugs. Ray thinks bananas are bananas? Nah, June Bugs are everywhere, despite the fact that 'June Bug Procreation' in a Google search returnettyy d a video of 'June Bugs in May aHA Shitty name!' in the top three videos. From my experience, June Bugs only lie on their backs or fly right at you. How would these super scary bugs survive for a little over 6000 years if God didn't just make them up every summer?

Being said, where are all the Dinosaurs and Dragons? And why is n' t society perfect since we all descended from superNoah? A Junebug just suggested I eat blueberries, do I do it? And when do I find the time to write this down as a thing that literally happened?

I'm clearly not a moral person, oh, foo -Gaul Dernitt (talk)

Blueberries are in season and everyone should get them right now and I don't know why life is pain forever because of this but women sure suck THE BIBE 1:1Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:25, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Which
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