# RationalWiki:Technical support/Archive1

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##  Sidebar

Trent, could you please put a link to this page on the sidebar/left nav bar/whatever it's called? CorryIt's an illusion, Michael! 13:07, 3 February 2009 (EST)

We need one? If so I'll do it (or you can yourself). Let's see what the mob thinks - the sidebar's getting a bit full.  (Toast) and marmalade 13:12, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Well, it seems that if it's always visible it would be more likely to be used, and I think the tech help page deserves prominence. CorryIt's an illusion, Michael! 13:54, 3 February 2009 (EST)
How's that (there'll be complaints)  (Toast) and marmalade 14:21, 3 February 2009 (EST)
It's a good thing to have there. Perhaps it should say "Technical support" though? ħuman 15:40, 3 February 2009 (EST)
feel free; although it could be read as "Technician (i.e. Trent) support" rather than "Technical ... "  (Toast) and marmalade 15:49, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Thank you Toast! I'm wiki-savvy enough to get by, but not enough to manipulate site-wide variables and feel comfortable doing so. And Human- maybe it could read "HALP!" CorryIt's an illusion, Michael! 15:55, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Hehe, I just wanted to get rid of the lazy abbreviation of "tech", looks to me like there's room for the whole word. ħuman 23:56, 3 February 2009 (EST)

##  HELP!!!

Why is our wiki crashing? --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 20:08, 3 February 2009 (EST)

It has to do with an infinite loop being created in the intercom, Trent is aware of the problem and is trying to fix it. Which is why you don't play with it. - User $\pi$ 20:10, 3 February 2009 (EST)
I didn't touch the intercom. --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 20:12, 3 February 2009 (EST)
No but you use it every time something minor pops into your head. - User $\pi$ 20:13, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Which I stopped. --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 20:15, 3 February 2009 (EST)

The problem tonight was due to my error. Apologies to all, & thanks to tmtoulouse for getting it fixed. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 20:37, 3 February 2009 (EST)

I TOLD you it wasn't me. HAH! --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 20:39, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Is it caused by sending an empty intercom message, because that is how it appears? - User $\pi$ 23:02, 3 February 2009 (EST)
No, it's caused by sending a faulty intercom message. I'm guessing that the blamk one appears because Trent has removed that message's original contents manually to get the site back up. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 23:14, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Okay fair enough. I remember the intercom being a large project when Trent started it. - User $\pi$ 23:18, 3 February 2009 (EST)

I have changed the order of the text pre-processing so any lockup occurs when the text is submitted to the intercom and not after it has been posted to the site. The upshot is if you submit a message that will cause problems it will simply prevent execution of the code that posts the intercom message to the site. You will get an error message and have to go back and look at your message to see what was wrong. Ideally I would like to make it so that the errors do not create infinite loops but that is much more complicated. In the mean time intercom will no longer lock up the site, at worst it will make you look at a blank screen for thirty seconds after you submit a message. The actual error is pretty rare though so hopefully this won't happen often.

Short answer: Not really fixed, but won't break the site anymore, feel free to start using the intercom again as you see fit. tmtoulouse 13:55, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks v much for that tmt. Please accept these dozen goats as a token of gratitude. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 14:09, 4 February 2009 (EST)
Yes, thank you, Trent, for jury-rigging a fix for us. We really appreciate it. Radioactive Misanthrope 18:37, 4 February 2009 (EST)

##  Edit counter

There is a minor issue with the with the edit counter at RationalWiki:User edit counts: as of this post, the "Year" dropdown box only includes 2007 and 2008, but not 2009. Radioactive Misanthrope 21:37, 3 February 2009 (EST)

Here is to easy things to fix. tmtoulouse 00:12, 4 February 2009 (EST)
It's fixed! Thank you, Trent! Radioactive Misanthrope 00:34, 4 February 2009 (EST)

##  Sig

[[user:ConservapediaUndergroundResistor| <choose> <option weight><font color="#02ED31"</option> </choose> <choose> <option weight>face="bradley hand itc" font size= "3"></option> </choose> <choose> <option weight=30>ConservapediaUndergroundResistor</option> <option weight=8>ConservapediaSubwayResistor</option> <option weight=8>ConservapediaUndergroundTransistor</option> <option weight=8>ConservapediaUndergroundDiode</option> <option weight=8>ConservapediaUndergroundInductor</option> <option weight=8>ConservapediaUndergroundThermistor</option> </choose>]]

Why won't that work? --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 17:57, 6 February 2009 (EST)

I think you can't have <choose> in there. Read this (might as well read this part too while you're there) -- Nx talk 18:00, 6 February 2009 (EST)
(EC) Why are the color & font in option brackets? Even if they're supposed to be, it should be either <option> or <option weight=10>. "option weight" on its own, won't do anything. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 18:02, 6 February 2009 (EST)
Thank you! <goes on to reek havoc with sig> --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 18:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)
<Prepares to update sig de-annoyifying script> -- Nx talk 18:06, 6 February 2009 (EST)
No need to worry- still won't work. --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistoris the chief bickerer 18:10, 6 February 2009 (EST)
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! --"ConservapediaUndergroundTransistorGoatspeed! 18:26, 6 February 2009 (EST)

##  Government & Information Technology

It's not possible to access this page normally, Government & Information Technology will simply take you to Government, everything beginning with the ampersand is discarded. This link works though. -- Nx talk 11:20, 9 February 2009 (EST)

And there is no way around that really, the "&" should be treated as a special character in titles and never used. Solution is to move the page the proper name Government and Information Technology. 216.221.87.112 12:49, 9 February 2009 (EST)
Ok, then I'll just delete these pages (their content had already been moved long ago) to remove them from orphaned pages. -- Nx talk 16:16, 9 February 2009 (EST)
And I unlinked the "&" version to get it off wanted pages (I hope). ħuman 17:41, 9 February 2009 (EST)

##  Email function

Seems to have disappeared - or is it just me? --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 20:20, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Trent said it was borked the other day, but it should be good again? ħuman 00:30, 2 February 2009 (EST)
This is going to be a difficult problem, in order for the e-mail to function I have to have a working mail server on our server. Currently the mail server locks up on boot up. Until I get this sorted out e-mail should not be sent, hence it is disabled. tmtoulouse 13:57, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Just a quick note, the forums support private email, so if you can find your addressee there, you can still pmail them until the server is working. ħuman 16:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)

###  Email function 2

How is the email function going? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 04:32, 8 February 2009 (EST)

###  Email function 3

Trent, if we don't have a functional mail server then why does the email function work on RWW? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 12:47, 10 February 2009 (EST)

##  Newt

I wish to be newt. Please make me a newt. Sorry if this does not belong here. --"CURtalk 13:34, 15 February 2009 (EST)

This doesn't belong anywhere, except maybe in a fairy tale or Monty Python. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 13:41, 15 February 2009 (EST)
Human is a newt. --"CURtalk 13:42, 15 February 2009 (EST)
If you want to be a newt, you'll have to ask Trent, as the only groups on the user rights menu are sysop, bureaucrat, bot and vandal. Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 13:44, 15 February 2009 (EST)
Than how is Human a newt? --"CURtalk 13:45, 15 February 2009 (EST)
It doesn't do anything. Why not just write "I am a newt" on your user page. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 13:47, 15 February 2009 (EST)
Because I'm a cheetah, lol. --"CURtalk 13:47, 15 February 2009 (EST)
So why do you want to be a newt, Newtah? ħuman 01:39, 17 February 2009 (EST)
Why not? --"CURtalk 16:08, 17 February 2009 (EST)
Because you're a cheetah... ħuman 18:06, 17 February 2009 (EST)

(unindent) And you're a human. . . --"CURtalk 18:07, 17 February 2009 (EST)

##  Weird things

The tabs have no bottoms. There is a "0" in the top left of the screen... Trent, what did you break? Or not fix yet? ħuman 01:38, 17 February 2009 (EST)

##  Huge fonts

Am I the only one for whom the fonts on every page become huge when I log in? They're fine when I log out. --Edgerunner76Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 08:17, 17 February 2009 (EST)

It seems fine when I log in as any of my myriad socks including, obviously, this one. Kal-El 08:23, 17 February 2009 (EST)
I got huge fonts (& the 0 in top left Human mentions above) when I first accessed the site this morning, but it reverted to normal when I deleted the Intercom messages. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 11:35, 17 February 2009 (EST)
Thanks. That fixed it. --Edgerunner76Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 11:59, 17 February 2009 (EST)

##  Some requests

1. Could Extension:InputBox be installed?
2. Could [a_href] be moved from the spam regex to the spam blacklist so it can be whitelisted on certain pages? I want to make a user script that needs that in its code.--Ipatrol 11:25, 21 February 2009 (EST)
'a' + ' href' is the way I solved the second one in one of my scripts. -- Nx talk 11:32, 21 February 2009 (EST)
What about [a._href] (without the underscore), and what about plain [h_ref](no underscore).--Ipatrol 12:28, 21 February 2009 (EST)
Here, this:
     editsection2.innerHTML = "<a " + "href=\"" + editsection.getAttribute("href") +

, works. -- Nx talk 12:33, 21 February 2009 (EST)

What about [a.href]--Ipatrol 12:48, 21 February 2009 (EST)

I don't understand. What are you trying to do? -- Nx talk 13:03, 21 February 2009 (EST)
What about something that would enable us to play chess (with custom boards and pieces)? --"C, U Ra(n) dazzling, stealing cabinet. 12:49, 21 February 2009 (EST)
What about the popup thing on WP? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 13:11, 21 February 2009 (EST)
I just finished porting that, it's at User:Ipatrol/popups.js. Now issue 2 is resolved, but what about issue 1?--Ipatrol 13:25, 21 February 2009 (EST)

##  Not well formed

Trent, the XHTML returned by RW is not well formed and is causing my script to fail. There are two issues: the first one is extensions inserting javascript into the generated page, and not enclosing it in /*<![CDATA[*/ and /*]]>*/ The second one is the site support link, the code inserts </ul> and </div> and no opening tags. I can hack around it, but it would be better if you could fix this. Thanks -- Nx talk 08:02, 22 February 2009 (EST)

Would that be why AutoWikiBrowser doesn't work? It would be really useful if that could be made to work here. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 08:34, 22 February 2009 (EST)
Probably, though I'm not familiar with AWB. -- Nx talk 08:42, 22 February 2009 (EST)
End discrimination against Mac and Linux users! Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 08:38, 22 February 2009 (EST)
They're working on it -- Nx talk 08:42, 22 February 2009 (EST)
Collective yay for Python! Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 09:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)

I'm going through the source of the Saloon bar to find any more issues, and will list them here:

 $output = '<script language="JavaScript" src="'.$player_path.'audio-player.js"></script>'
. '<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="'.$player_path.'player.swf" id="audioplayer'.$id.'" height="24" width="290">'
. '<param name="movie" value="'.$player_path.'player.swf">' . '<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID='.$id.'&'.$param_string.'soundFile='.$file_string.'">'
. '<param name="quality" value="high">'
. '<param name="wmode" value="transparent">'
. '</object>';


should be

 $output = '<script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="'.$player_path.'audio-player.js"></script>'
. '<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="'.$player_path.'player.swf" id="audioplayer'.$id.'" height="24" width="290">'
. '<param name="movie" value="'.$player_path.'player.swf"/>' . '<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID='.$id.'&'.$param_string.'soundFile='.$file_string.'"/>'
. '<param name="quality" value="high"/>'
. '<param name="wmode" value="transparent"/>'
. '</object>';


I'm also correcting errors in signatures as I find them -- Nx talk 10:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)

• The EmbedVide extensions uses <embed> instead of <object>, which is not valid xhtml. I don't know if this will cause scripts to fail though. -- Nx talk 10:48, 22 February 2009 (EST)
• More on the support link: Looks like it gets inserted into the toolbox, but it should be after that, after the </ul> and </div> inside its own div. -- Nx talk 11:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)
• While fixing the popups script, one of the problems was that it didn't work when there was an intercom message. It was caused by two variables inserted by the intercom extension, named min and max, which conflict with the standard javascript min and max functions (Math.min and Math.max works of course). Could you please rename these two variables? -- Nx talk 05:42, 1 March 2009 (EST)
Nevermind, it was the script's min and max functions, and gedit's syntax highlighting is stupid. Still, it would be a good idea to change those variable names IMHO, since they're quite obvious and the conflict only happens if there's an intercom message, leading to hard to hunt down bugs. -- Nx talk 07:59, 1 March 2009 (EST)

##  Trent? Are you there?

You said you'd be back yesterday; anyhow, why does the email work for RWW, who are on the same server, but not us? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 14:33, 3 March 2009 (EST)

##  template:mathnav help

I'm just doing some librarian type stuff, and wanted to add some math articles to the Mathnav. But it didn't look like the Bible Guide or other templates I've used. I'd appreciate any help in how you edit it. template:mathnav Thanks.--En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 11:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)

It's automated, unlike the others. You have to add a special template to the articles themselves, like this: {{keyword|mathkey=Metric system}}. The text after mathkey will be displayed on the Mathnav. The article also has to be in Cat:Mathematics or Cat:Mathematicians. --  Nx/talk  12:09, 5 March 2009 (EST)

##  "RationalWikiWiki has a problem"

When I try to view RationalWikiWiki, I get:

RationalWikiWiki has a problem

Fatal error: Call to a member function selectRow() on a non-object in /home/rwwiki/public_html/wiki/includes/User.php on line 777.

Is someone working on the wiki, or is it just broken? Radioactive Misanthrope 16:37, 5 March 2009 (EST)

This either means that Trent is back, or we're screwed. --  Nx/talk  16:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)
Hi Hans! I believe they are installing userconfirm. --Input The ResistorOutput 16:39, 5 March 2009 (EST)
They? --  Nx/talk  16:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)
Well, I at least would be, but I can't really do anything. You need to lift the 'No editing of own article' rule and replace it with 'NPOV'. Not to mention we need a WIGORW, which I will maintain. --Input The ResistorOutput 16:41, 5 March 2009 (EST)
The "No editing of own article" rule is there for a good reason, and we're not lifting it. As for WIGORW, for that we need Trent's help. --  Nx/talk  16:45, 5 March 2009 (EST)
It's stifling growth. If it is keeping people from editing, then we need to rethink it. --Input The ResistorOutput 18:59, 5 March 2009 (EST)
Why would making one article off-limits to people stop them from editing? If writing about themselves is their only reason for going to RWW, that brings up the exact point of that rule. Oh, and it's working again, so let's take this discussion where it belongs. ħuman 20:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)
I note that we have the vandal extension installed there, but using it gives a php error. Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 16:57, 5 March 2009 (EST)
I didn't even know we had the Vandal extension. --  Nx/talk  17:10, 5 March 2009 (EST)

##  Has someone been playing about?

Does anyone know why I'm getting a weird format where all the text is huge and a lot of the spacing is messed up, or perhaps is it happening to others? Basically, the start of the source code for every page on RW begins with "0"; I can see it in the top left and it directly precedes <!DOCTYPE html... > in the source code. Deleting it via a temporary edit solves the problem, but of course, only it's only a temporary thing. It only seems to appear on Opera. ArmondikoVgnostic 16:36, 11 March 2009 (EDT)

Not on Ffox.   .  So, that's the tune they play on their fascist banjos 17:06, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
Nor on Safari. Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 17:59, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
Yep, this is pretty odd. Masking and Iding as either FF or IE doesn't change it. Has someone tried installing a hack that isn't very web compliant? ArmondikoVgnostic 19:05, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
I think it's something to do with the intercom. I use IE, & I only get those symptoms if I come to the site when there's an intercom message waiting (that's been sent sometime when I'm offline). Once I delete the message(s) & refresh the page, it's gone. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 06:25, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
Yep, it's the intercom. It disappeared when I logged out and then disappeared after logging in and deleting the messages (I've been storing them recently because I end up deleting and losing the links in it). ArmondikoVgnostic 08:43, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
Everything fine for me. (FireFox Vista) --Bobbing up 09:44, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

##  Mathnav

Help. Someone deleted a page cauchy sequence which is fine, apparently it was something "not in our vision", but they didn't know that said page was in Template:Mathnav. Can someone more familiar with this particular template remove the page reference? Thanks!--En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 10:52, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

It's automagically not there. (for me at least)   .  So, that's the tune they play on their fascist banjos 10:59, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
That's the nice thing about automated navplates... ħuman 18:58, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

##  API

Do bots have the right to API-write? If not can this be fixed. - User $\pi$ 05:24, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

If you mean the edit module, our mediawiki version doesn't have it, but that will be fixed soon. --  Nx/talk  05:26, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, it has been driving me mad for a while. It has been some good work you are doing, I take it you have run a few LAMP servers before. - User $\pi$ 05:28, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
No, actually I haven't. --  Nx/talk  05:29, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
Really? That is the trick according to Scott Adams, if you are confident and you know 1% more on the topic than anyone else you look like an expert. - User $\pi$ 05:41, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

##  Chalkboard

When I open a page (TWIGO e.g.) that has the chalkboard @ the top at a subheader (i.e. I'm opening it at the bottom) the chalkboard appears there overwriting existing text and won't go 'til I've scrolled it off-screeen & back (Firefox) . and marmite 09:14, 1 March 2009 (EST)

It works fine for me - shows the top of the page (including the chalkboard) very briefly while opening the page, then jumps to the relevant section. Are you using monobooks? It might could be something in that interfering with it, although I don't know what, not knowing anything about scripts. WẽãšẽĩõĩďMethinks it is a Weasel 16:44, 1 March 2009 (EST)
nothing in my monobooks. It's now just a blank (or white, I suppose) rectangle that overwrites that section of the page & won't go away until I scroll it off screen & back again. Strange. and marmite 20:26, 1 March 2009 (EST)
Pi's archived and the effect has gone, so either there was something on the upper half or it's the page length. and marmite 21:28, 1 March 2009 (EST)

##  Editing talk pages

I think that since the email feature does not work for RW, we should allow blocked users to edit their own talk page a la wikipedia. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ What the hELL is that P at the end of my sig?! 12:56, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Why, did someone go nuts and actually block someone? ħuman 15:43, 4 March 2009 (EST)

##  Rw and Rww images

Is it technically possible to transclude pictures between RW and RWW? that is, could a picture uploaded to one be shown on both sites without having to upload it twice? Now we're on the same server it might be possible. Rrose selavy 06:16, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

This seems to indicate you could; I haven't read it in detail but it looks like what you want. - User $\pi$ 06:28, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
It's not my area of expertise, but from what I can make out, the best way would be a third wiki for file hosting, similar to wikimedia commons. Would there be much denmand for a RationalCommons? Apart from LArron's graphs I am not struck by the wealth of obvious candidates. Rrose selavy 08:37, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
Does RWW user pictures? Unless a user put one up of themselves here it is not much use to RWW. - User $\pi$ 08:40, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
Hardly anybody - the only one I recall doing so is Carptrash. Rrose selavy 08:47, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

##  Java

Say that I was to write a program, say a game or something. How could I procede with allowing users of RationalWiki to access it? I understand Java programs can be embedded into websites, but of course it raises issues of permission and the fact that Java program would need to be tested. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ What the hELL is that P at the end of my sig?! 19:22, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Assuming you are writing an applet it is just a matter of hosting the applet code at an assessable point and a few lines of html. 216.221.87.112 18:12, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

Well, you could add the game to MediaWiki:Common.js. Ipatrol 20:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Silly Ipatrol. Javascript != Java -- Nx / talk 20:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I've upgraded DPL to the latest version, if you see anything broken, let me now. --  Nx/talk  08:27, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

##  Dante's Hell Image

Help. I've got a image/template problem. In the metafiles of Image:Hell - simonists.jpg, a deleted page Dante's Hell 1 has been referenced creating a dreaded "redlink". I am not sure how to fix that, without breaking any redirects or whatever might be in the image. Can anyone help? --En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 10:19, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

It's the fair use template on the image. The image isn't used, and Dante's Hell 1 doesn't show up in the deletion log. --  Nx/talk  11:57, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
The image is PD, so I've removed the fair use template and the offending redlink. --  Nx/talk  15:14, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Editing tab wording

Does anyone else think that the oh-so-clever rewording of the editing tabs up top have become stupid and make it impossible to know what the hell is what? Did they change again recently? Can we not just have them say 'edit', 'talk', etc? 'Mutate' is not very obvious to any new editors who would come here, and what the hell is 'capture' or 'peer review'? It's just too cleverclogs, and frankly, pretty stupid. DogP 11:50, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

Without endorsing or condemning the new tab names, you can put your mouse over them to tell you what they do. Z3rotalk 11:53, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
Yes, but tooltips are there to provide names for icons or extended information on buttons, not to actually tell you what they are because the actual title or icon is too abstract. It's fine when people know their way around wikis or have been here for a while, but mostly they're confusing if people just browse onto the site randomly. ArmondikoVgnostic 12:07, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
Not condemning or endorsing, just trying to help. Z3rotalk 12:08, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
ec I think they are great, though I did like "vaporize" better than euthanize. We are a snark filled wiki. that just proves it!  :-)--En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 12:09, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
FWIW, I'm kinda Meh on the new tabs.... I think most people are reasonably experienced with the wiki format to figure out what they mean, but I liked the old ones better. That said, it's not life changing or anything.... But I do agree that Vaporize is much better. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 12:28, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
I am neutral on most of the changes, but like "vaporize" better than "euthanize." ListenerXTalkerX 12:32, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
I suppose it depends. Sometimes articles are best off being "euthanised" other's are best off "vapourised" but you can't really tell until the last moment when it has to be done. :p ArmondikoVgnostic 12:44, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
I know most of us here are 'reasonably experienced with the wiki format', but to expect any new editors to figure it out is a bit of a stretch, no? I don't think it's helpful, myself. But let's let the mob decide. DogP 12:58, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
When I first got here there was; release, fossil record, observe, ignore and vaporise. I changed lock to capture because of the release (a capture/release experiment being where capture, tag and release an animal to study it behaviour). Edit has been various thing I think at one point Ames had it as evolve, I like the mutate because by looking though the fossil record you can see the mutations (a bit clever). The only one I am really keen on is peer review. The simple reason is that I don't think enough reviewing of our material takes place. Most articles do not have citation or have grossly inadequate citations, it seems to me that people write stuff largely of the top of their head with nothing to support. This is what the peer review process suppose to examine, we should all be on the talkpages questioning the content of the articles to make them better. - User $\pi$ 22:52, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

I like our absolutely insane and difficult to follow wikiways. I also think that some of these things are getting a bit user-unfriendly. Can we adopt some fairly user-friendly compromise? Like "edit/mutate"? So we get the joke, but noobs with wiki experience see the word they expect? I think we might be in danger of outsmarting ourselves into, well, extinction? ħuman 00:10, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

We could just add a table to the noobs guide explaining what they mean. Adding slashes sometimes causes problems, I don't know how it affect messages. - User $\pi$ 00:12, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
But that would not help when BoNs turned up. ListenerXTalkerX 00:15, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
As to the current tab titles, I think they are mostly intuitive, with the exception of "capture," which only makes sense if the lock feature is used the way Ken uses it over at Conservapedia. ListenerXTalkerX 00:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
@Pi, well, let's try it (the slash)? What's the worst that will happen, we break the wiki for three minutes? & @ LX, yeah, exactly (EC'd but yeah, to both your comments). ħuman 00:21, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
@Human give it a try, however it kind of ruins the point of a in-joke name. I might just write a javascript to change it my satisfaction, that might also be more trouble then it is worth. @X capture is in the sysop guide I changed it at the time. - User $\pi$ 00:25, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
It works, tried it out. Not sure if I really like it, but it does help the noobs? At least on the main tabs, we might try to be noob friendly? ħuman 00:34, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I also mucked with "talk" - what looks better, a slash or parens? ħuman 00:36, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
The top edit-bar is now so wide that I have a horizontal scroll-bar on my browser window. (I think the parentheses are better than the slash.) ListenerXTalkerX 00:38, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I like the parentheses, it kind of says making it easier for newbies. What do you have your screen set at? - User $\pi$ 00:39, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
My browser window is 935 pixels in width. The font size is the default. ListenerXTalkerX 00:43, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I dont like the (talk) at all to be honest. Peer Review on its own looks good. Ace McWickedRevolt 00:44, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
My general feeling is that if you haven't used a wiki before RationalWiki is not really the place to start. How many people's first interaction with a wiki was RW? I think anyone familiarly with the layout at say WP will work out what it means quick enough. I would like them with just our sciencie names, it sets a tone for the place. - User $\pi$ 00:47, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
Sing it, Pi. Ace McWickedRevolt 00:49, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I agree with Pi on that. ListenerXTalkerX 00:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Edit MediaWiki space is weird, after you click save everything looks different. Everyone happyish? - User $\pi$ 00:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

I'm so happy I came in my girlfriends pants. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:03, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I see you (Pi) didn't like either of my experiments. How can we get feedback if no one sees them? And I disagree with the logic above. Many people come here with "some but not much" wiki familiarity, and our little egopants tabs make life very complicated the first time they want to chime in. Peer Reveiw is totally non-user friendly, and non-intuitive. I think we should just change it back to "talk" and keep the fancy stuff for the the "higher functions". ħuman 01:13, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I looked a little messy in brackets and I also agree most who come here have "a little" exprience with wikis and would soon figure it out. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:17, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I added "argue" but have to go and hide the whisky before girl gets home so your on your own. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

@Pi - I'm more than happy to admit that I had never used a wiki before RW. I've learned everything I know about wikis here. So it's not as strange as you might think that newbies might also be wiki-novices. DogP 01:30, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Me too at Dog, except what I learned at CP. @ Pi, elsewhere we are complaining about new sysops who don't know how to link... how does that square? Let's just keep changing them every few hours until someone says "brilliang" at the Saloon Bar? ħuman 01:32, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
I cut my teeth at CP. But I gotta say I loved "Mutate" and aint so happy with "complain". Ace McWickedRevolt 01:33, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
@Human. I was about to suggest we dedicate a project page to sorting this out with a poll/argument/HCM. How about RationalWiki:Editing tabs afterwards we can make it a help page. - User $\pi$ 01:34, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
Sounds like a good idea to me - wherever we put it, let's chalkboard and intercom it to attract maximum argumentation. Let the mob decide. ħuman 01:40, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Earth hour

Would someone more technically savvy than me, fix this... unless it's an intentional RW joke. Earth hour. --En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 17:24, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

It's intentional, but you can edit the article with this link: http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Earth_hour&action=edit --  Nx/talk  17:29, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
And if you hover down just a bit you'll "see" a link to Earth hour/article. It's nice to see that image exploit used for good instead of evil! ħuman 17:35, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
That's just the underline feature of the template, I think that was unintentional, so I've removed it. The actual imagelink is another, smaller black square --  Nx/talk  17:44, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Eh, the link is good, it gets you to the article. Someone used the imagelink template, right? Most of the page links to /article. ħuman 18:55, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
HOws this for single minded practicality. "ok, well it's gone from the orphan pages, thanks to whomever, so I no longer care." ;-)--En attendant Godot"«I don't think in any language. I think in images. V.Nabokov» 17:45, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Works for me... ħuman 23:27, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Yes, I did use the imagelink template to provide a link to the earth hour article. I suppose I did make it a bit hard to edit, but if need be, we could add an edit link on the /article. JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 11:50, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Performance?

Is it me, or has RW become really slow in recent days? DogP 22:55, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Is you. and marmite 22:57, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
(earlier comment retracted by the Cabal) Cut Trent a check, hell make it faster. Preferrably a big check. [[User:Theemperor|User:Theemperor/Sig/name]][[User talk:Theemperor|User:Theemperor/Sig/talk]] 23:00, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, it's not me- the rest of the web loads fine. Already sent loads money to Trent, Mr.Star Trek. Are we overloading the server with scripts, or is the server Confickered? DogP 23:03, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
(That was rude Emperor) I'm noticing no difference, but my connection's slow anyhoo. Could the scripts do it? and marmite 23:09, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Sometimes RW gets "lumpy". I think Trent pushed the potted plant over and the internets got confused? ħuman 23:31, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Processor load was at 100% and memory consumption was also almost 100% during the last few days. Javascript is run at the client level, so that at least doesn't impact the server, except when it does extra xmlhttprequests, but your browsers cache should help there.
The root of the problem is that the parser cache is completely disabled. This means that every time anyone loads WIGO CP, RW has to regenerate the entire page from wikitext, so it has to look up if the images are present on the server (to display red or blue links), write the wigo entries into the database, read the votes from the database, etc. From my testing the image lookup has the most severe performance impact, doubling the time required to load the page (you can open up the source and scroll to the bottom, you'll see a comment which tells you how long it took). If we enabled the parser cache, loading WIGO:CP would be almost instant, but the votes displayed would be incorrect. The solution I've decided to use for this is to send an invalidation request to the server via javascript when you send in a vote (and only if the server reports back that the sum changed, so if you click the up arrow 1000 times, it won't invalidate the page 1000 times), essentially voting will have the same effect on caching as editing the page.
So the bottom line is that I plan to try reenabling the parser cache once we upgrade. What you have to keep in mind is that using the random extension disables the cache, but fortunately only on the page it's used, not the whole wiki. I might even change the extension so it doesn't disable the cache by default, only when a parameter is present. --  Nx/talk  03:30, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
Unfortunately, Firefox's caching is a little bit too aggressive, but you can see this in effect in other browsers by going to RationalBeta. When the page is loaded from cache, serving time is ~ 0.1 seconds. When it has to be reparsed (after submitting a vote), it's ~ 2.8 seconds. (there's comment at the bottom in the html which tells you this) --  Nx/talk  04:06, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
Nice answer, Nx. Thanks for working so hard to help improve things. DogP 10:29, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
I'm not good at writing articles, I have to do something :) --  Nx/talk  20:00, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Intercom

Seems to be interfering with the top tabs. and marmite 17:55, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

Looks like it's purely cosmetic, so it's not worth fixing it now. --  Nx/talk  20:00, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Have we considered or discussed an upgrade to the MediaWiki version? There are many features and extensions we could use if we do upgrade.--Ipatrol 22:31, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

We are currently planning an upgrade to 1.14. Nx is rewriting the custom extensions so that we can upgrade more smoothly in the future. - User $\pi$ 23:11, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
Here it is. - User $\pi$ 23:14, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Only 1.14? Whh not use the 1.15 that Wikimedia wikis use?--Ipatrol 23:41, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Where do we get it from? - User $\pi$ 23:42, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
Because 1.14 is the current stable release. We don't have the manpower to use trunk. It should be easier to upgrade in the future however. --  Nx/talk  02:42, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
1.15 is still alpha isn't it? - User $\pi$ 02:44, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
It comes out in May, however the development version of MediaWiki is a bit different than other software. After someone commits a change, they check it on a test wiki, and if everything is ok, it goes live on Wikimedia's servers, so essentially the code is always ready to run. However we cannot afford to do that, obviously, fortunately they make snapshot releases every 6 months, and they backport bugfixes and release them as bugfix releases (e.g. we have 1.11.1, a bugfix release). --  Nx/talk  02:57, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
So even the Wikimedia software is constructed a bit like the content of a wiki?</re-reads for eighth time an finally thinks they understands>- User $\pi$ 09:43, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
They're both broadly speaking open source projects, so they have their CURs as well to deal with I guess. ħuman 21:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
Everyplace has a CUR. There is no way out, so please stop endlessly bitching about it. --CoyoteOver 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages 15:49, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

Hey, Nx, I hope you catch this here - when you decide to pull the switch, can you give us, say, 24 hours advance notice on the intercom and saloon bar? Then there's less confusion if the site is down for a bit. Thankies. ħuman 21:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Well, that depends more on Trent, but I promise I'll tell you at least 5 minutes before. :) --  Nx/talk  05:48, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Bandwidth

Is there any reason why we are going at a snail pace around here tonight? - User $\pi$ 09:01, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Dunno, but I'm noticing it so it must be really bad with my slow connection. and marmite 09:21, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Your PDA holding up alright? - User $\pi$ 09:25, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Not on PDA: on wireless broadband (3G); We & British Telecom had a disagreement: they said we owed them for time without connection - long story but upshot is: no landline! and marmite 09:57, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I'm on a 10 mbit connection, and I've started opening all links in separate windows because of the extreme slowness. Each page takes several minutes to load. - Nasreddin 10:40, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Speeded up now! and marmite 10:54, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Nice to all our discussion of our connection speeds fixed the problem. This technical support stuff is clever. - User $\pi$ 19:33, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Fine here all evening. I'm been enjoying some popcorn while watching my trial... ħuman 20:53, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Well, we were talking about eleven hours ago, H. and marmite 20:56, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Ah, ok, yeah. It was pi's bump that brought me here so I thought it was fresh. Oh well. ħuman 21:40, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
It's at it again. and marmite 08:48, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Not as bad as last time. - User $\pi$ 08:51, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
It's fluctuating, for me anyway. and marmite 08:54, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Perhaps Trent's ISP is very busy at that time of day? ħuman 15:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Intercom 2

I'm getting "an error has occured" when I click "mark as read". (FF) Totnesmartin 19:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I'm getting it too. Have no idea why, it worked on RationalBeta before the upgrade, and now it's broken there too. --  Nx/talk  19:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Is my sig borken as well? Yup. What's the fix? ħuman 20:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Remove the subst, or just remove the double template hack. It fixes itself when you save the page again. It's a MW bug actually, but since they don't disable sig cleaning at WP they don't care. Intercom is fixed btw. -- Nx / talk 20:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, figured it out from your saloon bar update on the changes. Neat that the borken ones self heal! ħuman 20:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Thanks

Thanks for the fast work, TMT and NX. Totnesmartin 19:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, well done guys. Pretty painless it seemed.--Bobbing up 20:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
We probably have to update some files that describe how things that have changed work now (VB, Intercom, Sigs, anything else?). And, yeah, great job on getting it done while I slept! ħuman 20:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Vandal brake

Are the accounts that were binned on the old site binned post-upgrade? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 20:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

No. -- Nx / talk 20:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Crap. Is there a list of accounts that were binned in the old system? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 20:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Let's give them a clean slate, and bin them if they start vandalising again. -- Nx / talk 20:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Most of them will never know anyway. (famous last words) Totnesmartin 20:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I can give you the list. Also, shortcuts like Special:VandalBrake/Nx work -- Nx / talk 20:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
No, it's OK. Can you make that "Manage user rights" link in the toolbox now? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 20:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, sure. -- Nx / talk 20:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Randomness

Check out the following:

time furry bit nuke beach ball noun
shave deteriorate reward subpoena complement

That's using the {{noun}} & {{verb}} templates. Since the server switch, they're only repeating one random option each time the page is displayed, instead of showing a random selection. See also the Smileys at the top of the Saloon Bar: eight the same each time, instead of eight varied ones as before. In each case, these are using templates with the <choose> & <option> system. I've checked the pages in IE & Firefox, both doing the same thing. ЩєазєюіδMethinks it is a Weasel 23:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It's because I've enabled the parsercache. The random extension should disable the cache for pages it's used on. I'll take a look. -- Nx / talk 23:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
As a workaround use dummy parameters to force mediawiki to reparse the template call. That's the best solution I could find. -- Nx / talk 23:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn't disabling the parser cache for any page that had random elements make it more or less useless, considering almost every page on the wiki has random thingies of one sort or another on them? If there's anything to be said of RW, it's that we like our bells and whistles. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 23:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Check out WIGO CP now. The improvement is dramatic. -- Nx / talk 00:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see, the random thing only pooches in the sense that each instance on one page load will be the same. So every pi sig or human sig on a given talk page will return the same random part. Correct? ħuman 00:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes. -- Nx / talk 00:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Can you fix it? -- 17:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
No. -- Nx / talk 19:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Is it possible to do anything? -- 19:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it's possible to disable the cache. -- Nx / talk 19:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Works fine for me- I get different verbs User:Theemperor/Sig/Sig 19:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Obviously, since I applied the workaround. -- Nx / talk 19:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Workaround is only a workaround where it's applied. As mentioned above, there are numerous pre-existing pages with multiple random generators in them. Is there no way of resolving this? ЩєазєюіδMethinks it is a Weasel 21:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
(EC) Disabling cache and hacking mediawiki to remove template caching, both undesirable. -- Nx / talk 21:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
But are there many that use the same random template more than once? Other than people using verb/noun etc. more than once on a talk page? ħuman 21:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Just use the work around Nx provided or limit the call to random selection through the use of a template. tmtoulouse 21:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
No, it's the templates that muck up - one that has random content that appears many times on a page uses the first return from the template at every iteration. Look at my talk page links, or Pi's sig, to see. For a while, everyone was winning Pi goats at the top of the saloon bar... ħuman 22:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Better workaround: the parameters are not needed, just the pipe character, e.g. {{verb|}}. This should make signatures randomizable again -- Nx / talk 07:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

##  DISPLAYTITLE

It won't work. -- 17:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Blink was removed by Trent. Give me a moment to fix displaytitle. -- Nx / talk 17:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Forgot about displaytitle completely, thanks for reminding me. -- Nx / talk 17:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanx, Trent, for removing Blink. and marmite 19:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Ogg files

Why can't I upload .ogg sound files? Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 04:16, 1 February 2009 (EST)

I think the wiki needs to install special software for it. ~Ttony21(talk, contribs) 11:00, 1 February 2009 (EST)

###  Ogg Handler

Trent, I know that this has been brought up before, but can you install the extention ogghandler? Thanks. [[User:Theemperor|User:Theemperor/Sig/name]][[User talk:Theemperor|User:Theemperor/Sig/talk]] 16:13, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

We'd need to install ffmpeg and its dependencies first. Trent, what do you think? --  Nx/talk  21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Signatures and subst

While we're on the subject, shouldn't the bin only be active during certain periods of low sysop activity? Neveruse513 20:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC) (P.S.) HALP, my sig is borken.
Take the SUBST: out of your sig -Redbackon the toilet seat 20:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Neveruse513 20:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I've modified the parser slightly, so both substitution and transclusion will work in signatures now. You can either use {{User:Example/sig}}, in which case ~~~~ will be converted to {{User:Example/sig}}, or {{SUBST:User:Example/sig}}, in which case ~~~~ will be converted to the contents of User:Example/sig --  Nx/talk  15:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

##  API write

I am having trouble trying to edit large pages with my PERL bots. I get "500 Internal Error, failed try to access http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/api.php after 6 attempts". Help please. - π 05:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

It's working with javascript (action=edit). Wait a second, only large pages? You can edit small ones? -- Nx / talk 07:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I was able to make two edit to User talk:Pibot. It is only when I tried to run Capturebot or go back over the archive to but the talkpage at the top of those that don't have it. I'll give it another go with the Saloon bar see if it is page size. - π 07:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Can you get the api output? -- Nx / talk 07:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
And maybe it's just capturebot, not pibot, copy WIGO CP to your sandbox, and try editing with both. -- Nx / talk 07:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Defiantly a size issue, I just tried to add the words Hello world to the top of Saloon bar. The problem seems to be because it doesn't add text it just write over the whole page. - π 07:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
I've got to go soon, but I've left a little piece of code in my Monobook.js that you can try. It edits a page whenever it runs, so don't save it unncommented, just click show preview once to edit. I'll alter it to alert the responseText. -- Nx / talk 07:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I have a entirely new theory. Namespaces that it has worked in User talk, User, Talk; didn't work in Conservapedia, Conservapedia talk and RationalWiki. I think it may be a setting I'll have a look at the PerlWikimedia module over the next few (I badly need sleep and I have things I should be doing, like sleeping) if you can think of a reason it might be server side otherwise I suspect it might be because these namespaces don't exist on Wikipedia. - π 13:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Might be the custom namespaces, although RationalWiki and RationalWiki talk are not custom namespaces, only their names are custom. -- Nx / talk 13:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Did you try editing custom namespaces with PyWikipediaBot? --  Nx/talk  21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Toolbars, timestamps

The stuff at the left needs some cleanup, also, did someone reset the server's timezone? I was used to CST, now it's GMT or something? ħuman 01:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by stuff on left? The sidebar? What's wrong with it? The timezone is UTC, not GMT. GMT is UTC+1 in the summer, and UTC+0 in the winter </pedantic> -- Nx / talk 17:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and MW1.14 has better timezone handling, you can select a city, and it will handle daylight saving properly. I suspect UTC was standardized in MW as the wiki time, the server time is still set to Trent's timezone. -- Nx / talk 17:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
As far as time UTC/GMT whatever. I was just wondering why it suddenly went to UTC instead of "server time". The sidebar is mucked. It has three empty sections above support. ħuman 21:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
There's a setting for server timezone, but I don't know if it changes signature timestamps as well. According to the documentation, it only changes the default timezone selected in preferences. Maybe the devs chose to force timestamps to universal time. --  Nx/talk  21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Actually Nx, GMT is NOT UTC+1 in the summer. For all intents and purposes GMT and UTC are the same but differ in their seconds. For scientific/technical usage then UTC or UT1 is usally referenced. Daylight saving in the UK means that the country changes to BST (British summer time which is GMT+1) although the shipping forecasts are still given using GMT.</pedantic> Генгисmutating 13:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

##  Wikimedia question

Is it possible to have different left columns on selected different pages? In particular can the logo top left (and its target) be changed from →Main page? and marmite 12:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Some of the tool boxes and navigation is different depending on the page so in terms of the left column yes. As for the big brain, I would be surprised if it could be linked somewhere other than the mainpage easily, but I am also sure Nx could find a work around. - π 12:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
How do you like that? (props to Uncyclopedia) --  Nx/talk  12:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, Nx, I see nothing? and marmite 13:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
If you refresh you see the RationalWikiWiki logo. Hey Nx can I play with that? - π 13:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Sure, this is what I did. --  Nx/talk  13:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Yup! the refresh did it, but it still links to main page.
Let me enlarge: what I was thinking was to divide a wiki into chunks, each with their own "Main Page" & "nav etc links" but still one wiki. and marmite 13:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Changing the link is only possible through javascript (unreliable) or php (hacking core mediawiki=bad, or it might be possible with an extension). Nav links also. --  Nx/talk  13:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Right! Thanks, Nx. Then can more than one wiki be run on one installation of MediaWiki, or does it require a separate one for each wiki? and marmite 13:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Normally, you use one installation per wiki, but you could use the same installation for multiple wikis, thanks to symlinks. What do you have in mind? --  Nx/talk  13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
It's a non-RW possible project we've been considering. and marmite 13:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah, ok. I think the debian/ubuntu packages do it this way, at least partially. They put mediawiki into /usr/share/mediawiki, and then put a bunch of symlinks into /var/lib/mediawiki, except extensions and images, and LocalSettings.php is a symlink to a file in /etc/mediawiki. This should support a multiwiki installation, but it still needs to be set up manually. --  Nx/talk  13:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Templates in section titles

anyone ever notice how you won't be directed to the proper section if the name of that section happens to contain a template? Neveruse513 03:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

There are lots of ways to break header linking - using links in them, special characters, etc. I doubt there is a "solution" other than not doing dumb things like using templates, links, etc. in headers. Basically, anything that looks different than its plain text version won't work. ħuman 04:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
"dumb things"? how flattering of you... Neveruse513 04:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
"Dumb" as in we tried that a lot of times and noticed it makes things harder so we don't do it anymore. TOC's are weird, in that they relate to sections by "name", but editing works by "number". By the way, sorry if I offended, but at least I tried to answer your query. ħuman 05:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
It works, but the correct link is Conservapedia_Talk:What_is_going_on_at_CP?#Look_in_the_frickin_mirror.2C_.E2.99.A5.C2.A0K.C2.A0e.C2.A0n.C2.A0D.C2.A0o.C2.A0l.C2.A0l.C2.A0.E2.99.A5. But yeah, Human is right, you shouldn't use templates in section headers. --  Nx/talk  08:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

##  Something I think I am missing in RW: Proposed AOTW

I need a revalation on the purported location of the button I am supposed to use to submit ratings in Proposed AOTW.

Where do I click to send ratings?

I am using Windows XP with IE8 and/or Firefox 3.0.10.

While people are at it, I have other problems with the one at the current AOTW. I manage to find a Rate button on the form for that one; it does not manage to show me the receipt (showing the consensus numbers?) after I attempted to submit the ratings. Same problem in the realm of the comment box below as well (clicking submit/preview does not add entry/preview entry to be added (only the entry I typed is missing; the rest of the page looks fine)). Thieh 05:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

AOTW is still the old extensions, pending a rewrite. Comments do appear if you purge the page, it's a caching issue. I'll make the aotw extension disable cache for that page to fix it. I don't know about the rate button though. --  Nx/talk  08:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd also appreciate a link to proposed aotw so I don't have to go hunting it down. --  Nx/talk  08:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I found it. There's no rate button because rating is closed (article tag has closed=yes parameter). I've disabled the cache so rating and commenting should work now. --  Nx/talk  08:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't RSS added to WIGO CP? More people would use it that AoTW. Harmonic cubic Phantom Hoover! 08:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

There's an RSS feed for aotw? --  Nx/talk  08:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

##  Capturebot -> bork

Would it be possible to run a version of capturebot over the entire wiki picking up "http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title" & '"diff" and snapping them or putting {{bork}} where no result was found? CUR seems to be trying to scan the wiki @ the moment - it'll keep him out of mischief but could probably be automated? and marmite 18:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I WOULD, but I can't find the damn download link. -- 20:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
CUR do you need help with your bot? @Susan I could make a few changes to Capturebot if you like, we will need a category like pages needing Capturebot's attention. - π 09:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
We could modify PyWikipedia's external link checker bot to collect all external links to Conservapedia on the wiki. From the list, I can create screenshots with the capturing script of capturebot2, once I fix its bugs that is. Finally, we'd need a mediawiki extension to insert the img links to all external links to Conservapedia. --  Nx/talk  13:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

##  Need help on implementing template

the development at full details has been at this talk page essentially, I need some help in using {{template1|{{template2}}}}, specifically when {{template2}} is a choose sequence (<choose><option></option>...</choose>). The part I found not to work is at here, and the templates are located at here and here (template 1 and template2 respectively).

Any help would be appreciated. Thieh 06:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

You question almost makes no sense. Here is what I think you want. User:Π/hypergeometric. - π 06:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Big problem you have is that for choose templates I think the first variable is a number seed now. - π 06:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
It just needs a parameter list (even an empty one will do, like in your sig) to prevent caching of the template call. MediaWiki assumes that if you call a template without parameters multiple times, the template should always return the same value, so it only reads the template page once. It doesn't check the parameter lists to see if they are identical. --  Nx/talk  13:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I think he wants to pass a template as a parameter to a template, something which I don't think works. I don't think template parameters are put through the mediawiki parser, they're just escaped and displayed, probably for very good reasons like avoiding infinite loops. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 07:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 “”Of course, I could be wrong.
--JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 07:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Jeeves is right (I think), when you include a template in a parser or another template, it reads the template in using the subst thing, it actually looks at the code and not the displayed results. So when it is looking your template what it is reading is {{#switch:<choose><option>1</option><option>2</option></choose>|1=Foo|2=Bar|default Nil}} and results in Nil as <choose><option>1</option><option>2</option></choose> ≠ 1 or 2. - π 07:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I was almost on the verge of throwing out an intercom thingie to help Knnnnn in his quest. Why can't what he wants to do work!? IE, use the result from one template as the clear and simple input for another? ħuman 08:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Because choose templates are not a result, they are a display feature. - π 09:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Please to explain better to help Knnnnn? How then to get a "result", and not a "display feature" from a choose/option template? ħuman 09:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
(EC) You can pass the template name as a parameter, and then expand the template, e.g. {{{{{1}}}}} 09:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
So you gotta use an extra set of double curly brackets? Is that all? Gee, that's so intuitive! ħuman 09:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, if you think about it... {{{1}}} is replaced with whatever the parameter is, then the parser kicks in, and sees something with two curly brackets around it... --  Nx/talk  09:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
The parameter should be the template name, without curly brackets of course. --  Nx/talk  09:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Analogy of what I am trying to accomplish: Let's say the items are "YHWH" and "Allah", then at somewhere else I need names of scriptures like "Tanakh" and "Qu'ran". (e.g. "Allah" is good. read the "Qu'ran".). So I need some random number generation mechanism to get a parameter in order to match the two set of descriptions. Thieh 12:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
As you can see from my experiments in your sandbox, the problem is not in the template inclusion. You cannot use the option tag, because when #switch is evaluated, it evaluates the code, not the result, because parser functions are evaluated before tags. --  Nx/talk  12:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe suggestion of what I can use? Thieh 13:00, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know. I think it's impossible to do what you want. --  Nx/talk  13:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Does RW has WInter or this implemented? Although I have no idea whether the #rand will sync (or whether a wrapper will make them sync) Thieh 15:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I've installed DynamicFunctions, that should work, since it's a parser function too --  Nx/talk  15:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)