Talk:9-11 conspiracy theories
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: Mykal, the phrase "hindsight is 20/20" seems pretty apt right now. What about all the other "warnings" that they may have received? I'm willing to bet that the "warnings" your pages list are a small fraction of the total amount of intelligence law enforcement constantly received and still receives to this day. Why do you feel the intelligence referred to in your pages was enough to encourage law enforcement to take action? We know now that 9/11 was going to take place, but how could law enforcement have known that those specific pieces of intelligence were pointing to such an event and that they needed to take action before September 11th? Why do you feel the intelligence would have been persuasive enough to convince law enforcement of its veracity? Why do you feel it was specific enough that law enforcement could have acted upon it quickly enough to prevent it from happening? | : Mykal, the phrase "hindsight is 20/20" seems pretty apt right now. What about all the other "warnings" that they may have received? I'm willing to bet that the "warnings" your pages list are a small fraction of the total amount of intelligence law enforcement constantly received and still receives to this day. Why do you feel the intelligence referred to in your pages was enough to encourage law enforcement to take action? We know now that 9/11 was going to take place, but how could law enforcement have known that those specific pieces of intelligence were pointing to such an event and that they needed to take action before September 11th? Why do you feel the intelligence would have been persuasive enough to convince law enforcement of its veracity? Why do you feel it was specific enough that law enforcement could have acted upon it quickly enough to prevent it from happening? | ||
| − | Your "warnings" may seem convincing now, but that's because we know what took place now. Before 9/11, the "warnings" would have been lost in a sea of intelligence, along with who knows what else. What you're implying is that law enforcement took the time to sift through all this intelligence to find those few vague warnings, came up with a convincing profile for a large-scale attack that would take place soon, and chose not to or were persuaded not to act upon it because high-up officials in the government wanted to exploit the deaths of thousands for their own personal gain. | + | :Your "warnings" may seem convincing now, but that's because we know what took place now. Before 9/11, the "warnings" would have been lost in a sea of intelligence, along with who knows what else. What you're implying is that law enforcement took the time to sift through all this intelligence to find those few vague warnings, came up with a convincing profile for a large-scale attack that would take place soon, and chose not to or were persuaded not to act upon it because high-up officials in the government wanted to exploit the deaths of thousands for their own personal gain. |
| − | I'm sorry, but for you to convince me of that, you'll have to do a lot better than finding patterns in intelligence after the fact. Anyone can predict a disaster after it happens. [[User:WarlordFred|WarlordFred]] ([[User talk:WarlordFred|talk]]) 07:50, 3 January 2014 (UTC) | + | :I'm sorry, but for you to convince me of that, you'll have to do a lot better than finding patterns in intelligence after the fact. Anyone can predict a disaster after it happens. [[User:WarlordFred|WarlordFred]] ([[User talk:WarlordFred|talk]]) 07:50, 3 January 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 07:51, 3 January 2014
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Requesting Comments
The other day while reading this article I discovered disrespectful snark saying that goats did 9/11 as did readers of this site. I believe that this is disrespectful and hurtful to families of 9/11 victims. I think it should be removed immediately as to not make people feel bad. There are so many jokes on this website it is going to be life-altering if it is taken down. Also note, no conspiracy theorist ever said goats did it so if anyone disagrees don't write it makes fun of conspiracy theorists. Leoesb1032 (talk) 23:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Agree-
- This is disrespectful and insulting to victim's families. Leoesb1032 (talk) 23:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- Disagree-
- What does that mean!? Leoesb1032 (talk) 23:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- You'll have to hang around RW more. EVDebs (talk) 23:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think it's particularly offensive. It ridicules conspiracy theorists, not victims. Kimberly (talk) 23:49, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
- lol. You appear to be at the wrong website sunshine. --DamoHi 01:24, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
As seeing nowhere else to put this, i would just like to make what i think will for sure, be a temporary addition, If you're going to put anything truther-ish on this page, you'd best be prepared to provide impeccable citations. Trust us, we've seen all the truther arguments before, so don't be trying to pass off some fringe article from 2002 as new information. We will find out. This statement is indicative of a biased view. I wholeheartedly agree with the idea,but then we don't see the same from OVB'S i will give 2 examples. The passport (Satam al Suqami, something i have been working for 2 months, and the final piece when edited would prove beyond doubt that the passport could not be where it was when it was as it was,if it came from american 11. The theory that if transponders went off the planes are not trackable is akin to saying,if a plane broke US airspace it need only cut its transponder and it will be invisible. In days of multiple planes in the sky,then what if attacks came along standard flight paths from south america or canada? This is just an example. I don't, for multiple hard researched and tested reasons,believe the official story. Clearly this is a page devoted to debunking. And, you can hardly allow all truth postings. However, i would suggest that you consider that already i could debunk the debunk in at least 50% of the material you have, it doesn't make it wrong,it is just spin. My point is, i think among your mods you should have a truther, who will vet you, and truther statements and vice versa. There must be a statement of intentional bias,or a real attempt to be simply factual.As it stands,there is much that is actually deceptive.— Unsigned, by: 90.212.15.253 / talk / contribs 18:35, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
WTC 7
In your article on 9/11 conspiracies the sheer amount of disinformation, cherry-picking of facts, and out and out LIES, are astounding.
However, I will ask a simple question and request a rational answer. If it is supplied, I will never question the official story again.
To wit:
One element of 9/11 that is conspicuous by it's absence on your absurd page is the issue of WTC7's collapse. Simple put: how does WTC7 collapse at free-fall speed, symmetrically into it's own footprint without the use of explosive charges, which is the only way to cause all support beams to fail simultaneously. Admitted by NIST, by the way. The laws of physics were not suspended on that one day, were they?
Without simultaneous failure there cannot be free-fall speed, nor symmetrical collapse. Even NIST'S Shayam Sunder admitted that. In fact, the long awaited "Final Report" on the collapse of WTC7 doesn't address the collapse at all, but ends at the "initiation of collapse." Even then Sunder explains that the way the collapsed is presented has a very low order of probability.
Okay, agents, the ball is in your court.
So, it's a simple question. Show me how that's possible.— Unsigned, by: Profjoey / talk / contribs 18:36, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
- Fire. Also, buildings that are controlled demolitions don't plunge at free fall speed. It's not possible unless you suddenly open a pit larger than the size of the building below it, such as a sinkhole. Similarly, Popular Mechanics's digest of the report says there was no simultaneous failure, it was sequential. Zero (talk) 19:01, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
- So, let's see. 20-story gash in the side of the building and fires throughout. Visible structural weakening (at least by those who knew what to look for at the time). In other words, damage consistent with having a frikkin' 100-story skyscraper fall directly on it. Why exactly do we need to assume controlled demo? EVDebs (talk) 23:05, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
"Rebuttal"
I think that the bold "rebuttal"-s are unnecessary and intrusive. Am I the only one? This is not a side-by-side article.--ZooGuard (talk) 20:30, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
- Would it make sense to put it into SBS form? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 17:01, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Cover
Anyone think this's good enough for cover? I think so. Anyone has any comments? --The Hellhole! g͘͡r̸̀a̸̶̡n̶̶͜ţ̡ ̀҉̴̨͡m̀͘͜͢e͡ ̸͟҉̷̢ỳ̸̡̀͞ơ̡̢̡ų̧r̴̀͡͝ ̡҉҉̧̛s̵̕͏̡ǫ̀́͢ų́l̵̕҉|G̕͡a̵͘͜z̴͞e͏̴̧͞ ͏̀͠͞u͜͢ņţ̛ơ̶͜ ̶̢̛̀t̴͢h̢̛͠҉è̸̛ ̨́a̸͟b̴̧̀̕͡ý̨͠s͡s͟͠͝ 14:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Bush allowed 9/11 to happen rebuttal
To be clear, I'm talking about this:
Rebuttal: It is known that Bush received a memo entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S." on August 6, 2001, but this memo discussed the threat in a general way and made no mention of the specific individuals who carried out the 9/11 attacks.[38] Nevertheless, the existence of this memo, Bush's reported flippant response "You've covered your ass, now" and the fact that it was not declassified until years later contribute to the aura of foreknowledge and coverup.
This doesn't seem like much of a rebuttal to me; in fact, it reinforces the claim it claims to refute. And it's not even complete, there were several more warnings we ignored. Also, with the suspicious insider trading, I think it's irresponsible to group the claim that there was foreknowledge of 9/11 with ludicrous ideas like the "holographic plane".
MykalOfDefiance (talk) 03:15, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
- (1) There are going to be 'many, many scenarios' explored and presented to senior officials, ranging from 'this appears to be a present possibility/what policy should be adopted' to 'rather unlikely/nothing we can do about it.' (2) There will always be 'comments and responses' which have no particular significance at the time (GB probably meant no more than 'You have brought my attention to this, point noted and passed on') which acquire unintended significance in the context of later events ('Futility, or the Wreck of the Titan' is the usual example.) 171.33.222.26 (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
- Mykal, the phrase "hindsight is 20/20" seems pretty apt right now. What about all the other "warnings" that they may have received? I'm willing to bet that the "warnings" your pages list are a small fraction of the total amount of intelligence law enforcement constantly received and still receives to this day. Why do you feel the intelligence referred to in your pages was enough to encourage law enforcement to take action? We know now that 9/11 was going to take place, but how could law enforcement have known that those specific pieces of intelligence were pointing to such an event and that they needed to take action before September 11th? Why do you feel the intelligence would have been persuasive enough to convince law enforcement of its veracity? Why do you feel it was specific enough that law enforcement could have acted upon it quickly enough to prevent it from happening?
- Your "warnings" may seem convincing now, but that's because we know what took place now. Before 9/11, the "warnings" would have been lost in a sea of intelligence, along with who knows what else. What you're implying is that law enforcement took the time to sift through all this intelligence to find those few vague warnings, came up with a convincing profile for a large-scale attack that would take place soon, and chose not to or were persuaded not to act upon it because high-up officials in the government wanted to exploit the deaths of thousands for their own personal gain.
- I'm sorry, but for you to convince me of that, you'll have to do a lot better than finding patterns in intelligence after the fact. Anyone can predict a disaster after it happens. WarlordFred (talk) 07:50, 3 January 2014 (UTC)