Talk:Herbal supplement

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(The indefinite article and the letter H)
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Just so you know, it sounds utterly foreign to European ears.  We pronounce the H.
 
Just so you know, it sounds utterly foreign to European ears.  We pronounce the H.
 
[[User:Brianetta|Brianetta]] 18:49, 22 February 2008 (EST)
 
[[User:Brianetta|Brianetta]] 18:49, 22 February 2008 (EST)
 +
:Both some versions of Commlish and Amlish leave an H such as this as not much more than an aspiration.  Of course, this particular one ''is'' a more defined difference.  Ironically, this is the only "leading H" the British pronounce, IIRC. '''[[user:human|<font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human</font>]]'''{{User:Human/sigtalk}} 20:03, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Revision as of 01:03, 23 February 2008

I don't know that you can really apply Dawkins' quote to herbalism as a whole, but rather more specific instances. Most, if not all, herbalists I've known haven't made ridiculous claims, only that readily available herbs and natural ingredients have healthful properties, something medicine doesn't really disagree with. Individual herbalists or companies selling so-called "herbal viagra remedies" may make outlandish claims, but they're not representative of the whole field. --Kels 15:33, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


Contents

Criticism of Herbalism

It seems fairly obvious that some herbs must work in some sense of the word. The article acknowledges this. My understanding is that problems derive from: 1) Erratic dosage - plants contain different amounts of active ingredient depending on how fresh they are, the season, the soil in which they grew etc etc. This makes dosing a bit hit-or-miss. 2) Purity or contamination - there may not always be stringent quality control systems to ensure the purity of supply. 3) Double blind testing - few (if any) herbs have been subjected to rigorous double blind testing and consequently some work and some don't.--Bob_M (talk) 15:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

What I notice is that a large part of the article seems to focus on commercial herbal remedies without noting that this is not representative of all herbalism, although some of the same criticisms apply. --Kels 17:52, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
I'm still working on it, but throw some examples my way for research...this is far from complete.--PalMD-yada yada 17:55, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
Hmm...I'm mainly going from memory and experience here, but if I get a chance later (I'm setting up a site and working on a comic, so I'm a wee bit distracted) I'll look around. --Kels 18:12, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
Thanks much, K. Any other ideas, shoot them my way.--PalMD-yada yada 18:13, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Praise of Herbalism

ALRIGHT NOW! Won't you listen?

When I first met you, didn't realize I can't forget you, for your surprise you introduced me, to my mind And left me wanting, you and your kind

I love you, Oh you know it

My life was empty, forever on a down Until you took me, showed me around My life is free now, my life is clear I love you sweet leaf, though you can't hear

Come on now, try it out

Straight people don't know, what you're about They put you down and shut you out you gave to me a new belief and soon the world will love you sweet leaf




Purple haze all in my brain Lately things just dont seem the same Actin funny, but I dont know why scuse me while I kiss the sky Purple haze all around Dont know if Im comin up or down Am I happy or in misery? What ever it is, that girl put a spell on me Help me Help me Oh, no, no [faint, spoken lyrics...all questionable] Hammerin Talkin bout heart n...s-soul Im talkin about hard stuff If everbodys still around, fluff and ease, if So far out my mind Somethings happening, somethings happening Ooo, ahhh Ooo, {click} ahhh, Ooo, ahhh Ooo, ahhh, yeah! Purple haze all in my eyes, uhh Dont know if its day or night You got me blowin, blowin my mind Is it tomorrow, or just the end of time? Ooo Help me Ahh, yea-yeah, purple haze, yeah Oh, no, oh Oh, help me Purple haze, tell me, baby, tell me I cant go on like this Purple haze Youre makin me blow my mind...mama Purple haze, n-no, nooo Purple haze, no, its painful, baby

MiddleMan 15:51, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Outline

I'll be treating this like all the others...give good and bad evidence. I'll touch on how many herbs do have obvious biologic activity, and in fact are the basis for many modern medications. Evidence for and against specific therapies, problems for the field as a whole...poor quality control, poor evidence of efficacy and safety, etc. Areas for advancement...ethnobotany and the search for cures. Many companies combing the rainforest for new molecules.--PalMD-yada yada 16:22, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Citations

Result 5. Unique Identifier 15047038 Authors Bent S. Ko R. Authors Full Name Bent, Stephen. Ko, Richard. Institution Osher Center for Integrative Medicine, Department of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco, USA. bent@itsa.ucsf.edu Title Commonly used herbal medicines in the United States: a review.[see comment]. [Review] [78 refs] Comments Comment in: Am J Med. 2004 Oct 1;117(7):533; author reply 533; PMID: 15464717 Source American Journal of Medicine. 116(7):478-85, 2004 Apr 1. Local Messages JOURNAL OWNED BY THE BEAUMONT ROYAL OAK AND TROY MEDICAL LIBRARIES. TROY RETAINS CURRENT FIVE YEARS ONLY, AVAILABLE VIA SCIENCEDIRECT STARTING IN 1999, NOTE: VOLUMES OLDER THAN 1996 ARE IN OFF-SITE STORAGE Abstract Herbal medicines are widely used in the United States, with approximately one quarter of adults reporting use of an herb to treat a medical illness within the past year. Herbs contain complicated mixtures of organic chemicals, the levels of which may vary substantially depending upon many factors related to the growth, production, and processing of the herbal product. While many manufacturers attempt to provide products with consistent levels of suspected active ingredients through a process known as standardization, this technique has uncertain effects on the safety and efficacy of the final product. Herbs are considered to be dietary supplements in the United States and therefore are subjected to a very limited form of regulation and oversight. Although herbs are often believed to be "natural" and therefore safe, many dangerous and lethal side effects have recently been reported, including direct toxic effects, allergic reactions, effects from contaminants, and interactions with drugs and other herbs. Of the ten most commonly used herbs in the United States, systematic reviews have concluded that only four are likely to be effective, and there is very limited evidence to evaluate the efficacy of the approximately 20,000 other available herbal products. Because herbs may contain potent bioactive substances and are often marketed to treat specific diseases, many have argued that they should be subject to more stringent regulation, similar to over-the-counter drugs. To improve the safety and consistency of herbs, additional research is needed to define the pharmacology, stability, and bioavailability of these products. [References: 78] Publication Type Journal Article. Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't. Review.


Flax seed

I'm not sure if it qualifies as a herbal exactly, but it is a natural plant source that's become an increasingly commonly used alternative to the fairly harsh chemical laxatives on the market. When I was doing my mentorship for personal care work, the long-term facility that I was at (Oakwood Terrace, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada) had recently completed a study where they gave ground flax seed in morning meals on a regular basis to individuals who normally used laxatives. They found that their use of chemical laxatives dropped something like 80% within a very short time, with equivalent results as far as resident health was concerned. Further, they were able to avoid some of the side effects of regular use of chemical laxatives, so it was a net gain, to say nothing of the lower cost of the flax seed. --Kels 19:12, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Trepel, Friedrich. Arzt fur Allgemeinmedizin a.D., Karlsruhe, Deutschland. [Dietary fibre: more than a matter of dietetics. II. Preventative and therapeutic uses]. Wiener Klinische Wochenschrift. 116(15-16):511-22, 2004 Aug 31.
Only published study I could find on the topic. My guess is it's much more common in Europe.User:PalMD 19:20, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
It's gained a lot of traction in Canada. Back east, most of the long-term facilities are switching over. I wasn't sure if it would qualify, but it does point out the fact that some manufactured medications have downsides that a less processed alternative addresses. But again, it varies considerably from one product to another. --Kels 21:05, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
Yes, although flax seed is not too much different from psyllium fiber (metamucil) and makes not dramatic claims. It has a plausible, well-described mechanism of action. As some one said, alternative medicine is medicine that hasn't yet become mainstream. --PalMD-yada yada 21:41, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

cover story

(please do not archive this section)

  • SusanG - nominated it, so probably "yes"
  • Yes, it's a good article and smack dab "on mission" humanUser talk:Human 11:27, 29 January 2008 (EST)
In the absence of any dissent (or, for that matter, any discussion!) I'm going to tag it "approved" now. humanUser talk:Human 21:11, 11 February 2008 (EST)

The indefinite article and the letter H

an "herbal remedy"

Just so you know, it sounds utterly foreign to European ears. We pronounce the H. Brianetta 18:49, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Both some versions of Commlish and Amlish leave an H such as this as not much more than an aspiration. Of course, this particular one is a more defined difference. Ironically, this is the only "leading H" the British pronounce, IIRC. humanUser talk:Human 20:03, 22 February 2008 (EST)
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