User talk:RobSmith

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heh

He, like you, is afraid to engage in intellectual discourse with me publicly cause, like you, he knows he'll get his ass handed to him. Hahaha, yeah like that time you handed me ass over whether NZ was 3rd World. Oh wait.......AceModerator 23:02, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Or the time that Rob set me straight about the University of Chicago being a public institu....oh, sorry. Theory of Practice "I never set out to hit anybody. It's just that a lot of people got hit." -- Andy Roberts 23:15, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Who, since WP:Phar Lap, came to the U.S. from NZ and was successful? And if the U oc C gets Pell Grants, it gets government money. nobsCorporations are people, too. 01:15, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
If "getting government money" means an institution is public, does that mean that McDonnell-Douglas and General Dynamics are public institutions? You're a troll and an idiot and I'm done arguing with you. Theory of Practice "I never set out to hit anybody. It's just that a lot of people got hit." -- Andy Roberts 01:19, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Director Peter Jackson, Roger Donaldson and Lee Tamahori, Indy Car driver Scott Dixon, True Blood actress Anna Paquin, Actor Sam Neil, Flight of the Concords....etc etc. Though I fail to see the relevance Rob...But that's par for the course with you. AceModerator 01:22, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Don't forget Russell Crowe. - π 02:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Alan MacDiarmid. - π 02:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Really? Never heard of a damn one. nobsCorporations are people, too. 01:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Good for you buddy. But I think that I have shown your he knows he'll get his ass handed to him is bullshit. You couldn't hand someones ass to them if they cut it off and handed you a plate. AceModerator 01:37, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to break it to you, pal, but this is what the rest of the world thinks when they think of NZ. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:53, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Sure they do. AceModerator
How bourgeois! So money determines quality of life. OK. And you use UN stats. Of course the the UN has never been publicly audited & gets 40% of its funding from the United States (is that fair? we're only 2% of the worlds population and consume only 25 of the worlds oil and produce 25% of the worlds GDP, but we pay 40% of the UN's operating costs and then have to listen to this whining & sniveling bullshit). So lets look at people who actually know what they are talking about, the IMF, World Bank, and CIA World Fact Book. They got NZ ranked about number 25+ with about $27k per capita income; illegal immigrants in the US make more than that! When you're ready to find a real job, it's not that hard to get residency status in the US. nobsCorporations are people, too. 04:37, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

UN dues

You pay 22% of the operating cost. Dumbass. - π 05:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
You're right, my good man. I stand corrected. And it's only because we had a GODDAMN REPUBLICAN CONGRESS THAT FIXED THAT BULLSHIT! nobsCorporations are people, too. 05:13, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
What the fuck are you talking about man, you pay based on GNI and always have? - π 05:19, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
hmmm, are familiar with Helms-Biden? it's a red link in WP. Perhaps you'd like to collaborate. Demanding reforms from the UN in 1996 was one of the Gingrich reforms. Sometime thereafter the UN reduced its 25% cap to 22%, but Peacekeeping operations are a large and separate budget by which the US pays an even bigger piece. nobsCorporations are people, too. 05:49, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
2010-2011 $  %
UN regular budget 4,605,000,000 100
US share 1,080,000,000 22
UN Peacekeeping 7,200,000,000 100
US share 2,100.000,000 29
Combined UN budgets 11,805,000,000 100
Combined US share 3,180,000,000 27

Note: This does not include "extra budgetary" items such as IAEA, UNHCR, UNICEF, WHO, etc. etc. etc.

Rob, like Andy, reading is not your strong suit. Lets look at the criteria....The well-being of the citizens of 169 countries is calculated by the HDI, which takes into account health, income and education. So where does your comment So money determines quality of life.. Oh yeah, nowhere. AceModerator 04:51, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Umm, perhaps from the big, white letters in the upper right hand corner of your link M-O-N-E-Y. nobsCorporations are people, too. 05:02, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Ace you are arguing with a guy that comes from a state that would be a developing world shithole if it had not strapped itself on to the richer, more successful, and more liberal states of the US like California. - π 05:10, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
So you have confused the website subsection to be part of the article? Just goes to show the problems you have with reading comprehension. AceModerator 05:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
You know nothing about marketing. Why didn't the editors of that rag put in with general news, or human interest, or tourism or some shit? why did they put nit in money? cause they now greedy evil money grubbers who worship material things and neglect spiritual values or social consciousness like you would find it there! nobsCorporations are people, too. 05:17, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
You know nothing about marketing I know a good deal about marketing, part of my professional life involves marketing (though I don't enjoy it as much as other parts of my work). But were we talking about marketing? Hmmm, you know, I don't think so. What were we talking about it?....Hmmmm... oh yeah, your completely hopelessness in reading comprehension, your inability to mount a coherent argument and about how I handed you your ass when it came to debating the development of New Zealand as a fist world country that defeats the US in nearly every category. Though to be fair the USA did beat NZ by .02 points in the 2011 index. Damn that Obama! AceModerator 05:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
hmmmm, so you're in sales? Perhaps. Most wp:Sociopaths are either in jail or in sales. nobsCorporations are people, too. 05:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Nope, not in sales. Try again big fella. AceModerator 07:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Sociopaths & the financial mess

Most sociopaths go into finance these days. Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 08:37, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

But are most people in finance sociopaths? Peter tanquam ex ungue leonem 08:46, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Just the ones who matter. Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 09:05, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey, that banking crisis link is actually pretty good, although there are issues with the timeline. Did you write it? nobsCorporations are people, too. 14:40, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Nah, that was someone else. You should thank them for writing it. Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 19:08, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── One of the problems with the article is it sounds as if mortgage securitization didn't occur until after passage of the CFMA of 2000, which of course isn't true (see wp:Mortgage-backed_security#Recording_and_MERS). The RW article says, "Investment banks around the world, over-confident of market conditions then securitized much of this debt, and then repackaged groups of sub-prime accounts and sold them on again." [my bold]. That's not exactly what happened. The repeal of Glass-Steagall Act allowed regulated banks to engage in wp:Proprietary trading, and compete with unregulated hedge funds in the trading of mortgage derivatives which had been going on since the 90s. This is what caused regulated banks to get into too big to fail territory. So the article leans a little bit too much toward the now outdated, "it's Bush's fault" and compromises RW's objectivity. nobsCorporations are people, too. 20:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Rob, I want to ask

What is your job? And did you go to college, if you did what major and if not... why? I'm genuinely curious.--il'Dictator Mikal 02:32, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

History. I wanted to teach. Both my parents were professional educators. But I've been around small business all my life, now I run several small retaliating & service enterprises. I do some business consulting and tax consulting as well. Sales have gone to shit since Obama. My sales are 25% of what they were under Bush, and my income half (that's why I have so much free time online). Other business owners give the same appraisal. In the business world it's called churning, going through the motions with no growth and little benefit for anyone involved. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:47, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Maybe if you worked a little harder instead of trolling RW you'd make a little more money. AceModerator 02:48, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I love how you bring in politics even into questions like these. Mr. Anon (talk) 02:50, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
My father was the Executive Director of the Junior Achievement organization ("Educating youth on business, economics, and succeeding in a global economy") for the State of Wisconsin when I was a kid -- education & entrepreneurship is in my blood. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:59, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
What a loaded and I might say (as a 14 year old) a condescending response. Mr. Anon (talk) 03:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
It wasn't directed at you, Anon. I was answering Mikalos questions. I got involved in Cold War history & politics as a kid when the US still had the draft. At the age of 12 I figured, if my destiny in life was to get drafted & killed in Vietnam, I at least wanted to know why I was gonna get killed. nobsCorporations are people, too. 03:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Alright, my apologies there. Mr. Anon (talk) 03:10, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

That WP Churning article needs to be expanded. It notes "attrition rate" as being the same thing, defined elsewhere as

"A factor, normally expressed as a percentage, reflecting the degree of losses of personnel or materiel due to various causes within a specified period of time."

That best describes how small business owners view the past few years. We call it churning. It cannot be understated how important Consumer & Business Confidence indexes are. This comes from Canada just yesterday

Canadian small business confidence fell in April for the first time since last August, underscoring renewed concern about the debt crisis in Europe and high oil prices in recent months.

We're the guys who provide the food you eat, the gas you drink, the clothes you wear. We are the only hope for jobs. When business owners are pessimistic & demoralized because it just isn't worth troubling ourselves to kiss ass for no reward, others need to take note of what this means for America.

Rueters: Wed May 2, 2012 U.S. business startups rate at record low - The pace at which new businesses are created in the United States dropped to a record low in 2010, a troubling development for an economy that is struggling to achieve higher growth rates necessary to reduce high unemployment.

Ignore what any of this means at your own peril, because you mistakenly think South African & New Zealand trolls somehow got a better feel on the US domestic politics. nobsCorporations are people, too. 04:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Or this one:

NATIONAL SURVEY SHOWS NEARLY FORTY PERCENT DROP IN TEEN CONFIDENCE ABOUT THEIR FINANCIAL FUTURES - A new study from Junior Achievement USA and The Allstate Foundation revealed that only 56 percent of teens 14-18 years old think they will be as financially well-off or better than their parents. That represents a 37 percent drop from 2011 (89 percent).

Sí, se puede, huh? Lucky for the wp:Communist International, 14-18 year olds don't vote. But this could effect wp:GOTV ground game this time around. nobsCorporations are people, too. 12:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll bite. What specifically has Obama done to reduce your alleged business by 75%? You seem to think he's the cause. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 12:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
The short answer is, no new businesses have been created that need consulting (corporate formation, accounting, tax, and compliance). See for yourself over the past 13 weeks, and that is for the entire state, not just the wp:Metropolitan Statistical Area. Usually I use InfoUSA, but it's a subscription service, and there's been virtually nothing for three years. The Census Bureau just reported New Business Start Ups (i.e., new employers) is at an all time low, down from the 1987 peak under Reagan.
Here's Job growth, Carter to Clinton. New business startups became a priority under Reagan for sustained longterm growth (i.e. future employment). It's been well established, this administration is decidedly hostile to business creation, business growth, or job creation and job growth (which is the same thing). nobsCorporations are people, too. 17:51, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, I'll ask again. What specifically has Obama done? "Hostile to business" is just you lapping up GOP talking points. We all know the economy has been in the shitter for a few years, and while I'm not one to assert it's Bush's fault, it certainly isn't Obama's. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 17:59, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Business startup and job creation has been low priority, if a priority at all. Repeatedly he's expounded extortionate tax increases on the very people he needs to create jobs. nobsCorporations are people, too. 18:23, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Still no specifics, eh? Alright, what hasn't he done that he should have done, specifically? And by "extortionate tax increases" I assume you mean his proposal to repeal the Bush tax cuts, which is hardly extortionate, and hasn't happened anyway, so you can't blame that for lack of job creation. That can't really explain your problem anyway, as you don't make enough to be affected by it, I'm sure. You who thinks there's no point in earning more money because you'll have to pay more taxes? No one. That's who. So I have to assume Obama is not to blame, since you can;t explain why he is. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 18:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Future expectations dictate economic activity. The psychology of consumers and investors lead them to buy or not buy at any moment. Confidence is key, or crucial to implementing any program. FDR is known for his famous "fear itself" slogan, which helped restore confidence in a frightened world. Fear in 1932 prohibited both consumers from spending, and businesses from hiring. Obama has repeatedly threatened to confiscate the capital necessary to create jobs from business investors (i.e. employers or job creators). After his re-election, he will have "greater flexibility" to allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire along with the 2% payroll taxcut, expand government further, bloat the deficit more, and encroach further on the private sector. This creates a climate of fear among employers, employees, and job seekers with an overall devastating effect on economic activity. nobsCorporations are people, too. 18:44, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Just as I expected, more crap, no specifics. Do you honestly think there are people out there who want to start a business but aren't going to because in a year or two the amount the pay on their income above a few hundred thousand could go from 35% to 39.6%? Yeah, if I have to pay a couple percent more in income taxes I might as well just collect returnable bottles; it's basically the same thing. I notice the 39.6% rate didn't stifle business during the 90s, but somehow today the very mention of it is enough to shut down businesses. You don't expect me to believe that shit, do you? And how exactly does raising taxes bloat the deficit? Give me one goddamn specific thing Obama has done that has hurt your business so much. Has it occurred to you that maybe people aren't hiring you as a consultant because you suck at it? They could hire you, or they could hire someone who can string two cohesive sentences together. I know who I'd go with. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 18:54, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, he honestly thinks that. Personally, I think this discussion has been quite illuminating with regards to rank and file conservative antipathy towards Obama. --"Shut up, Brx." 18:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Brx, thanks, and among non-partisan independents, as well. Dick, I've legitimized and brought into full tax compliance more startup under-the-table business operations over the past 20 years than you can imagine, making upstanding taxpaying employers & employees, and contributing members of society. And yes, I understand the risks small business owners take to expand their business & hire more people. For example, when a business owner takes a cash out refinance out of his home, raiding his nest egg which would be protected in bankruptcy, cash that taxes have been paid on already, for the purpose of helping people by hiring them, then after paying higher interest carrying costs on his primary residence, has to then find a way to get his investment back out of his business, passed the corporate tax, capital gains tax, personal income tax, etc. But this is assuming he's successful after several years, in a risk he didn't need to take just to hire people.
And more than just income tax, the 179 Deduction also remains an issue. nobsCorporations are people, too. 19:25, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

179 Deduction

Well, you're almost onto something there, as you've finally hit on something specific. But let's see what your own source says about the 179 Deduction, shall we? "During the financial crisis, the limit on the deduction was increased dramatically, to $500,000, to help small businesses and stimulate the economy. But this year, it's down to $125,000, and in 2013, it falls back to $25,000, the level where it stood in 2003." So under Obama the deduction was temporarily raised from to $500,000. Now it's scheduled to eventually go back to where it was during Bush's first few years. So the $25,000 limit under Bush was fine, but under Obama it's extortion, eh? It also says that "the Obama proposal doesn't increase the amount of money budgeted for the Small Business Administration". So now we have conservatives complaining about not enough government spending? What a strange world we live in. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 19:44, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
You know, we really are onto something.
So, Obama, Pelosi, and the Democrats raised the Section 179 Deduction (otherwise commonly known as a greedy evil tax cut for business) on their own to stimulate job growth. What specifically is the 179 Deduction, and how did it come about?
Do Democrats, behind closed doors, really believe cutting tax for business has a stimulative effect on jobs? If so, why all the hate rhetoric in front of the cameras? If this particular Bush Tax Cut reverts, will there be further adverse effects on growth and employment?
As to the SBA, no free market conservatives I know of support it's existence. It's no different than the Dept of Education, Fannie Mae, or Student Loans, something we'd do better without. It was created by a Democrat Congress & Democrat President in an effort to compromise some businesses as a counterweight to charges Democrats were anti-business and Kremlin stooges. It's continued existence shows the underlying popular perceptions have not changed. nobsCorporations are people, too. 19:28, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, giving businesses tax cuts/breaks can encourage them to start/grow. We get that. However, there is a balance, which it seems the Tea party types don't get. First they're shouting "cut our taaaaaaaaxes!!!! That's what's important!!!!!!" You do that and the deficit goes up. Then they whine "Oh noes!!!! The debt. That's the most important thing!!!!!" So then you have to cut spending to counter your tax cuts, doubly so if you actually want to shrink the deficit, which then raises the unemployment rate, which gets them whining about unemployment, and suddenly that's the Most Important Thing. There's no pleasing them, so no one should bother even trying. If we went in to the great recession with a balanced budget we'd have more leeway to use fiscal policy with hopefully only modest deficits. Instead, thanks to Bush going to war with everyone we went into the crisis with an enormous deficit already. I notice most conservatives didn't seem to mind it then, but suddenly a Democrat is in office and that becomes the #1 issue (along with taxes and unemployment, which are also the #1 issue). Anyway, so it appears Obama and co. raised the 179 Deductions temporarily in an effort to pull out all the stops in getting the economy to recover, but it isn't a permanent thing because it's another revenue shortage we can ill afford. Are you seriously arguing that the reason your business dropped by 75% is because the 179 Deduction is going down to its 2003 levels? Come on. The reason your business allegedly took such a hit is because the economy has been shitty for a few years, and try as you might you can't blame that on Obama. Why most of the country seems to think the President has any meaningful control of the economy is beyond me. I think the nation needs a lesson in economy 101. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 20:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
One flaw in your narrative there is neglecting the idea that tax cuts (such as the 179 Deduction or income tax) are to spur investment for job growth (we see that here). Hence more taxpayers. Here's a typical scenario: business owner has strong equity position in a fannie mae backed principal home. Business owner has limited access to capital to expand his business by hiring people. Interests costs and lack of collateral (his home is protected in bankruptcy) make business loans prohibitive. Business owner taps equity in his home (cash out re-fi). Business owner uses his existing equity to make Section 179 purchase, being able to deduct purchase against business income the first year rather than only a portion (depreciation) over 3, 5, or 10 years (hell, he may not be in business 3 years from now and unable to recapture the equity in his home). The financing of the Section 179 deduction is done by being able to deduct the increased personal home loan mortgage.
There is a lot more to be said about 179 Deductions, but it's healthy that Obama/Pelosi Democrats are on record promoting tax cuts for business to spur jobs and growth (to use an old Reaganism) and refute New Deal tax the rich schemes like depreciation schedules. Notice the deduction stood at $25,000 in 2003. Why the fuck should the taxpayers be on the hook for the General Motors bailout, when simple adjustment to the Section 179 deduction that would allow writing off the purchase of a automobile for business use would have a huge stimulative effect? nobsCorporations are people, too. 20:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
And if that auto had been made in Korea or Japan rather than Detroit? Redchuck.gif ГенгисRationalWiki GOLD memberModerator 21:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, presumably that was the sticking point why it wasn't done. No question GM & American auto producers would have (or possibly in the future) benefited. It's unclear to me how disallowing foreign manufacturers would have impacted WTO agreements; there is a certain amount of leeway built into WTO agreements cause all nations usually have to placate some domestic protectionist sentiment, and this $500k limit was a temporary adjustment. Longterm, US auto manufactures simply have to become more competitive in the US domestic market. Allowing businesses to expense the price of a vehicle in the year of purchase may lead greater turnover and replacing business owned vehicles more often (which of course sets brings Democratic constituencies like environmentalists and labor unions into conflict, and probably is a factor limiting support). nobsCorporations are people, too. 21:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I'll admit I don't know much about the 179 Deduction, but your own source says that under Obama it was raised to a half million dollar maximum. That sounds pretty impressive to me. Did it have a "huge stimulative effect"? No, not really. Did it do something? Probably. It's nice you have such a keen interest in this one deduction, but you can't honestly argue that your financial predicament can be directly traced to how tax write offs for depreciated property are calculated? Turpis 3:16 (talk) 21:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
The scenario laid out above of the business/home owner is typical of some, much, of the consulting work I've done in recent decades; pity the poor guy who cash out re-fi'ed for $500k and his home now appraises for less than half that. He originally intended to pull the $500k back out of the business when the time was right and pay down the re-fi mortgage debt, but now faces capital gains tax on the excess over the existing home mortgage exclusion. So now he has to pay taxes on money he's already paid taxes on, largely due to events beyond his control and not mistakes or improper planning on his part. And this complied with everything legally, and still got fucked. This type of consulting work has dried up to nothing.
So I'm stuck with my retailing operations for subsistence. The cigarette tax was raised 300% by an all Democrat Congress, Democrat President, all Democrat State Legislature and Democratic Governor 3 times, which hit my retailing hard. These Democrats can talk "tax the rich" bullshit all they want, in performance it's the little guy who got fucked. Smoking is the one cheap enjoyment miserable destitute peoples have in life, and fucking communists took that away from them because they know better how the common scum proletariat ought to live their lives. $8 a pack for cigarettes does not deter someone who makes $60,000 a year from smoking; in performance, the Democrats raped the poor man, and the poor people know it. nobsCorporations are people, too. 21:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I realize cigarette taxes affect the poor more than the rich; I'm pretty sure the point of them is not so much to be an incentive for 50 years olds to quit, but for 13 year olds not to start, which $8 a pack might do. The topic, however, is what policies of Obama's are directly responsible for your business doing poorly. I'm pretty sure the recovery isn't sluggish due to cigarette taxes, nor do I suspect there are people who are being forced to choose between a pack of smokes and hiring Joe McCarthy Jr. to consult for their business, so this, like most things you introduce into a conversation is a red herring. Turpis 3:16 (talk) 23:50, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Obama signed the cigarette tax his ninth day in office. So he can talk this "tax the rich" bullshit all he wants, in real performance, the only tax increase he's leveled has had a devastating impact on the poor. And it is the lack of jobs. All my businesses are dependent upon new businesses, new job creation, people working, consumers spending more, etc. In my city, the official figure is 6300 jobs lost, most from fannie mae backed residential construction. 6300 doesn't count day labor, which is huge in this part of the country. Those 6300 jobs lost were guys who then hired day laborers who did all the actual work. I estimate 10,000 day laborers gone, a diverse group of illegal immigrants, veterans, the unemployable, and others. How long will it be before new home construction picks up again so those 6300 can go back to work? Let's do the math. There 2 million repossessed foreclosed homes in the United States standing vacant and unsold. They must be resold first before demand for new residential housing picks up. In 2011, only 200,000 of these foreclosed homes were resold, even at a reduced cost. 2m/200k = 10 yrs before unsold housing inventory is reduced enough to spark demand for employment in new housing construction. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:06, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

And this is all a direct result of the cigarette tax, is it? Turpis 3:16 (talk) 02:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
No. It's Obama's negligence in the face of a jobs crisis. What created the crisis? The "share the wealth" mentality of government programs like Fannie Mae, doling out welfare payments in the form of below market, subsidized interest rates to middle calls victims of oppression. The President preaches class hate, is a Marxist revolutionary organizer, and yet himself when given the chance raised taxes on the poor, and cut taxes for the rich.
So the narrative goes, his heart is in the right place, but his head is up his ass. Bullshit. Communists are cold blooded killers. As President, not having the courage to walk away from this useless crap, and warn children not to go near, he still somehow thinks he can rehab Marx, Lenin, or Stalin. Everyday we see him preaching Marxist hate.
Not only negligence, I think he's too stupid to even see how fifty years of institutionalized Marxist programs like Fannie Mae bankrupted America, and destroyed hope. But he's not neutral on the question; it is clear where he comes from and what his program is. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
You don't actually believe any of this shit, do you? We all know you're an idiot, but come on, you're not this much of an idiot, are you? Turpis 3:16 (talk) 03:06, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

discussion on communism vs common sense

I just have to ask, why don't you - in the classical capitalist manner that you conservatives like to preach so much - work harder instead of bitching and moaning against the POTUS. Not that the POTUS can't do wrong, but we're in a recession. If you want your income to be higher, get a fucking job more work. Fuse with other businesses, or share certain costs with other retailers in different industries, or… use your giant super-conserva-brain to make up something else. Instead you keep posting diagrams and not doing anything to make the situation better. If anything it's not Obama's fault but people like you. --Raga Man (talk) 13:33, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I've been working 60-80 hours a week my entire life. Frankly, in my semi-forced retirement state, I'm enjoying the opportunity to educate young people on the Effects of Obama Employment Policies. nobsCorporations are people, too. 18:19, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Boy do I ever feel educated, Mr. Smith. Do you have any more insights that I, as a young and naive whippersnapper, couldn't figure out without you? Cow...Hammertime! 19:17, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
For somebody who works 60-80 hours a week, you sure have a lot of time to make terrible inaccurate comments on a wiki that dislikes you. I wonder if RationalWiki goes on your timecard, or if you just dishonestly fudge it. So much for Mr.I-Have-Done-Buisness-Stuff-Since-I-Was-A-Kid! ±Knightoftldrsig.pngKnightOfTL;DRcritical thinking is the key to success! 19:39, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Learn to read: I've been working --Raga Man (talk) 19:52, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Let me summarize that: Now that I feel old, I'm getting lazy and so I feel much more appreciated by rambling against a man who's problems I'm partially causing. --Raga Man (talk) 19:52, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Yah well, one of these days I'm gonna be slinging down mai-tai's on the beach in Ft. Lauderdale and donating the rest of my Social Security Check to the casino, while 25 year dumbfucks and community organizers like yourself only fantasize about having families and owning a home cause you need to pay for my mai-tais first. So while you struggle at your miserable low paying jobs as a dishwasher with your college degree from a state university bought with student loans, I still get paid first out of your paycheck before you are able to make a student loan payment. Best of all, while I'm sucking mai-tais on your dime, remember, I still vote Republican and abhor you commie/socialist schemes and utopia. nobsCorporations are people, too. 21:05, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Rob, you taught me real conservative values: HATE EVERYBODY (PS: Not an American, neither residing in America) --Raga Man (talk) 21:16, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I'll slam down two drinks on your dime with my social security check and say a prayer for you. Here's some advice for the young: while getting married, having a family and buying a home may not interest unruly boys 24 or 25 years old, girls kinda like this kinda stuff. So if you want to impress a girl, you need to either be able to do all that, or pretend you're interested in doing that. But it's awfully difficult in today's world, even with a college education. Look at the hopes for college educated under Obama - fuck, they were better off under Bush. nobsCorporations are people, too. 22:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok rob,. keep working til you die; or do you plan to ENJOY the benefits of a communist system?--il'Dictator Mikal 22:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Benefits of the communist system? Room & board and guaranteed employment in a wp:gulag? Social parasite laws? You do realize Obamacare's healthcare mandate is an extension of social parasite laws? nobsCorporations are people, too. 22:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, once again for the old man because he forgot his glasses: Not an American, neither residing in America --Raga Man (talk) 23:37, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Mikalos is either a New Zealander residing in Nebraska, or a New Zealander using a Nebraska proxy server. That's who I was talking to. nobsCorporations are people, too. 23:40, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
And didn't your mother teach you to be respectful to elders? do you abuse your grandmother the same way you abuse other seniors? Shame on you. nobsCorporations are people, too. 23:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
Never knew my grandparents and from what I heard, my grandmother wasn't exactly a good human being. Also: you're old, learn to have a laugh about it. --Raga Man (talk) 12:02, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I got the picture now. Don't be discouraged, son. Every kid is special. God created everyone for a reason. nobsCorporations are people, too. 15:15, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Want me to take a picture of my birth certificate? how bout my ID? Or can you just not fathom Americans who disagree with you are American?--il'Dictator Mikal 23:45, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
There's some privacy concerns there, and even the longform birth certificate can be faked, so we'll have to find another way. Who is Who Doctor Who's daddy? nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
It isn't very hard to find my name if you know where to look; and you already know what state and city I live in; so what exactly would be compromised? --il'Dictator Mikal 00:16, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Why should I know or care about your personal information? The question is, for allegedly being a native born yank residing in the US, you have a remarkable naive misunderstanding of US politics and history. nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:27, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Given I don't care much about americas history...--il'Dictator Mikal 00:28, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
There two types of stupidity: congenital & acquired. I'd need more information to make a proper diagnosis. nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:44, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I('m STUPID for not caring much for the history of some upstart nation who thinks that helping win one war makes them the world king? --il'Dictator Mikal 00:47, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Let's apply some cointel to your statement, " I don't care much about americas history", possessive third person case, as if you are talking about something you are not part of. The American colloquial version of that statement would read, "I don't care much about american history", and it could be considered shameful or offensive to utter in public. That's the kind crap we hear all the time from third world ferners, and who in their right mind would trade places with a third world ferner? nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
I've admitted it to many people in public; i really don't care about amercas history, its boring. --il'Dictator Mikal 01:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────America's got it's share of social misfits. I'm all for sending them to New Zealand or Cuba where they'd be happy, but NZ's population would rise from 4 million to 40 million overnite, and you'd be a stranger in your own land. nobsCorporations are people, too. 01:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

earlier upsets

Hey, Rob? Aren't you that guy I shut up a while ago that didn't know a thing about the economic context in the 1950s/1960s? You know, the guy that didn't understand that most pensions back then were on behalf of unions, not the government, thus ruining your illusory vision (supported by context-less graphs) of a no-social-support Golden Age? You know, the unions that people in the Red Scare were afraid would be disbanded and replaced with institutional slavery, prominently featured in many contemporary political cartoons and propaganda back then? ±Knightoftldrsig.pngKnightOfTL;DRgarrulous en guerre 00:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── In you contorted revisionism I seem to recall the website we were using mislabeled social security as "pensions", and didn't define between government worker pensions (which do not come out of social security), and the retirement relief for the rest of the proletariat. You then and now still seem to not grasp that idea, and the impact unfunded federal pensions have on overall deficits and spending. nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh my. Rob is calling me a revisionist. The irony.±Knightoftldrsig.pngKnightOfTL;DRlongissimus non legeri 00:44, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Racism

Calling me a racist is a serious allegation. Please substantiate this or retract it. AceModerator 23:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't me, it was a cholo!

Pretty interesting read. Hadn't seen this "excuse" before. Interesting though how an image, that totally wasn't yours, that was on a flash drive you got from someone switched titles with a commie atrocity picture you uploaded on to Conservapedia. AceModerator 20:38, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Oh and hey, "an cholo" is slovenly English, but maybe that's some localized dialect of English off in the nether reaches removed from civilization. nobsCorporations are people, too. 21:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
No, its a typo. An accidental grammatical error (thanks for the tip). Kinda like accidently naming your commie picture the name of your porn pics. It was "a cholo". Heh, that's awesome. AceModerator 21:09, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
It was. I traded a pack of cigarettes for $12 flash drive. I only feel guilty about taking advantage of the kid. nobsCorporations are people, too. 21:28, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
How's that morality thing of yours going rob? To good to sock up on a website that hates you but effectively stealing a flashdrive isnt?il'Dictator Mikal 21:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
So, you have the flash drive in your computer while at the same time uploading a commie picture onto CP and, somehow, the picture you upload takes on the name of the one on the flash-drive which you swapped with a Mexican for a packet of cigarettes? Sounds totally plausible. AceModerator 21:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Mikalos, no one ever saw two dogs exchange one bone for another. That's what set's us apart form other animals, a propensity to truck, barter, and exchange. "Give me that which I want, and I will give you this, which you want", as Adam Smith said. It's a Win-Win situation. That's what set's the human species apart from others. Hell, even a godless evolutionist can't deny this. nobsCorporations are people, too. 22:07, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
"godless evolutionist" I'm a Deist rob; not an atheist. --il'Dictator Mikal 22:10, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
More importantly; that isn't a win win situation; you get a flashdrive that can last for a while and has multiple uses (alongside having some porn); while he got some one use only cigs that will help kill him. --il'Dictator Mikal 22:14, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Well, you could argue the same about getting the clap from a hooker, but at the time it seemed the thing to do and neither were acting under duress.. nobsCorporations are people, too. 22:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
you have much experience with hookers rob?--il'Dictator Mikal 22:21, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Who? in the family or on the street? nobsCorporations are people, too. 22:23, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Well played, sir. This is why I look forward to hoisting a pint with you in ABQ. Nutty Roux100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 00:06, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Amen bro. What's your libation? nobsCorporations are people, too. 00:11, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
You'll have to put me on skype for this, Nuttsie. AceModerator 00:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Mentor

Can you please mentor me also? AceModerator 02:54, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Love to, Ace. You show promise and an ability to learn. The question is, do we want to go down a path of self destruction, or use our abilities to impress ourselves on human society in a memorable and constructive way? nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:59, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I reckon the third option. AceModerator 03:05, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
/I prefer my friends goal in life: Do something to register on a Geologic timescale, aka, set off yellowstone--il'Dictator Mikal 03:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Ace, the third option - being in a voluntary persistent vegetative state - is really the first option as well. At some point you need to have balls, stand up on your hind feet, and say "I am a man". But that's not enough, you still need to consider how you actions impact others. No one wants to be called an asshole behind their back or to their face. So how do we de-asshole our attitude so that it does not reflect on others? nobsCorporations are people, too. 03:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, Mentor! What's the first lesson? I have added a section below for you to begin....AceModerator 03:29, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Ace's first lesson

So let's begin with the point we've established that we may be reflecting an asshole-type attitude. Not that we are assholes, but there's the danger we may become assholes. Right now we must interpret the messages and signals we are getting from others that we may be assholes. Do we want to be assholes? Only a sick fuck might, but let's assume that, at heart, we're really not, and that's why we're here.

So what type of asshole type attitudes do we knowingly or unconsciously purvey to others? Rudeness? Uncaring? Belligerency? There is a time and place for all these attributes, but let's assume uncontrolled exhibition of them to friends and strangers has sometimes, if not often, led to unpleasant results they and we regret.

Is there time for misunderstanding? Not really. I've never met the man who had the habit of making misunderstandings with others profitable. nobsCorporations are people, too. 03:39, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Fascinating. Tell me more, oh wise one. AceModerator 03:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Machiavelli said, "Men nearly always follow in the footsteps laid out by others", and Clausewitz said "The great mind should occupy itself with great thoughts." Overcoming your stubbornness is not a sign of weakness, rather a desire to improve yourself and your people skills count as an inherent sign of strength. nobsCorporations are people, too. 12:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Wikiquote translates, "Great things alone can make a great mind, and petty things will make a petty mind unless a man rejects them as completely alien." nobsCorporations are people, too. 13:42, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Lesson the second

Lets go, mold me in your craven image. AceModerator 12:52, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

There once was a kid who got smart with a policeman during a traffic stop, hauled into jail and thrown in a cell with 8 other prisoners. Some crazy fuck looked at him, and said, "What the fuck you lookin' at?", and poked his eye out.
The kid was rushed to medical attention, and shouted, "I wanna prosecute the man who did this to me!" The prosecutor said, "Fine son, give me his name." So the kid ID'd the perp. Then, after treatment, was thrown back in the holding cell with the same 8 offenders.
All 8 then jumped him, held him down, and poked out his other eyeball for being a snitch.
When his court date came up, the kid walks into the courtroom, less two eyes, and shouts, "I DEMAND JUSTICE!!" The judge responded, "Son, I assure you, you have come to the right place. Now, how do you respond to these charges against you?"
Moral of the story: It doesn't pay to have a misunderstanding with anybody. nobsCorporations are people, too. 13:07, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Hmmmmmmm, what you say is deep. But what you don't say is deeper yet. AceModerator 13:11, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Ace and my existences are built around purposeful misunderstanding and lies. After all, we struggled to come up with a persona so irritating and dishonest that he'd disrupt the website and ruin some people's fun. We came up with Brxbrx, which we've run with the assistance of the cabal. Ace is beyond mentoring. He needs to be imprisoned. Good thing neither of us is a real person. Nutty Roux100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 14:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes, this is the phenomena of cp:liberal deceit. Proverbs 6:2 teaches, "Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth," which is the basis of the David Harvey's wp:immanent critique. The lack of consistency destroys credibility. This is particularly true, to be successful, in the business and marketing world. People will only give you their money when they have confidence in a name brand that they are not going to be ripped off. nobsCorporations are people, too. 15:27, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Baby boomers

Did you mean to suggest that they were going to affect this election in a meaningful way? What you were saying was mostly reasonable, but I'm still not sure what actual implications you think all of that will have. Q0 (talk) 11:03, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

No. But we could see a switch form four years ago indicating that longterm generational conflict may play out: a reversal of roles with younger voters trending more conservative, and lifelong older conservative voters trending more pro-income transfer. nobsCorporations are people, too. 12:24, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The idea of young voters trending conservative sounds like wishful thinking on your part, but then again I have to admit to that same thinking in hoping that it doesn't happen. This type of thing is hard to judge, but if Obama is somehow held up as some sort of liberal icon, and the country is forced further to the right, I could see it happening. Q0 (talk) 12:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Reagan did well with young voters in the 1980s, Clinton got them back. It's probably more a question of an articulate spokesman who can appeal to them (over the next 20 years or so as generational conflict comes into play). But a 75 year old curmudgeon with conflicting views stealing the MTV Rock the Vote vote from a hipster celebrity like Obama shows it can be done. A person's background and upbringing plays a big part -- to the extent parents instill the idea of getting a good education and finding a good job, and then upon graduation feeling cheated or denied by the system. nobsCorporations are people, too. 12:51, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
"A good Education" is how i became a liberal, so if conservative parents want conservative kids they may want to avoid public schools. --il'Dictator Mikal 15:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
A kid studies for 75% of their lifetime to get a diploma only to find it qualifies as a pizza delivery man. They may be receptive to a message from Ronald Reagan or Ron Paul that impingement on the free market is the root of the problem. nobsCorporations are people, too. 15:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
I consider an unregulated free market to be a problem, so no. --il'Dictator Mikal 16:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
The suckers in question are receptive to any message saying that the root of the problem has been identified and that, if only candidate X can be voted into office, they will not have to work as pizza couriers anymore. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 21:37, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Well you have this fundamental underlying problem common to victims of a public school education. The teachers give a rats ass if the students are properly prepared, don't have a clue of the realities of the market place and and modern business world, if not outright hostile to it and think there something unethical about working in the private sector and not sucking the public tit like a public school teacher does. And it reflected in teachers work product -- declining test scores, and declining intelligence of Americans.

So a kid comes out of school and feels lied to: his parents and teachers didn't prepare properly. So9 he thinks Why did I go the community college to become a machinist when there are no manufacturing jobs? Then Reagan or Paul explain how communists, public school teachers, and communist unions destroyed jobs & education in America, and free choice and the free market are under attack by communists and coercive mandates. Suddenly things begin to make sense. nobsCorporations are people, too. 20:11, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I have to disagree vehemently with the aspersions you cast on our teachers. Pure rhetoric with no basis in reason or reality. ħumanUser talk:Human 02:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
PS, Reagan presided over the destruction of blue collar jobs in America, you silly person. ħumanUser talk:Human 02:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
There are a fair number of moonbat teachers, and those who are in the classroom to grind an axe, and those who are just looking out for number one, but they tend to leave the profession within a few years.
As to right-wing politicians who use populist themes to drum up votes, they seem unable to come up with any original banter, having ripped most of their current stuff off the pinkos who blame bankers, cost-cutting pro-corporate politicians, and labor-aristocratic union bosses for the decline of U.S. jobs and education, and say that free choice and the free market are under attack by "crony-capitalists." Poor and desperate people in the 19th and 20th centuries needed little schooling, from Reds or otherwise, to be suckered by the same general routine. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 02:47, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
@ListenerX, very good comments I'm much in agreement wit.
@Human, Look at the work product -- declining test scores and loss of international competitiveness. And as for the loss of US manufacturing jobs due to declining international competitiveness, those same unionized public school teachers presided over the same loss. nobsCorporations are people, too. 02:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
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