Debate:Gun Control; what do you think?
[edit] What do you think of Gun Control, and your reasons for it?
An open floor debate on Gun Control. No set agenda besides being willing to explain why you are for, or against, and be willing to engage with others respectfully, as promptly as you honestly can, and being as honest as possible. If you wish to challenge a reasoning someone has put forth, please respond to them in their section, rather then making a new one.
[edit] Revolverman
I am against Gun Control, for two key reasons.
- 1)I feel that Gun Control, by its nature is a knee-jerk "closing the barn door after the horse is out" solution. By the time someone is looking for a gun to commit a crime, something deeply has gone wrong long before for said individual. Money spent on gun control could be far better spent on social assistance programs that help youth, or at risk people find ways out of cycles of crime and violence rather then just hoping a lack of a tool to commit said crime will keep them from committing it.
- 2)Gun Control laws, to me at least, seem to speak of deep paranoia of our fellow person. They assume that anyone who has access to a sufficiently powerful weapon will always use said weapon to harm others. Only the strict control of them can prevent us from shooting each other in the streets at will. A very negative vision of humanity I am strongly against.
- --Revolverman (talk) 23:55, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
- As a hunter and gun owner, I can say that banning fully automatic weapons is a perfectly sensible idea. I could also get on board with banning hi-cap semi-automatic weapon, if you need that many bullets you are a crappy shot and every game animal is now spooked. statementword 03:20, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
100% gun control. I think part of the problem is confusion over the nature of gun crimes. Mass killings are responsible for just 1-200 deaths per year, out of the 36,000 gun deaths per year. So what are the rest? Well, most are impulsive shootings on the spur of the moment, and fully half are suicides.
"Gun Control laws, to me at least, seem to speak of deep paranoia of our fellow person. They assume that anyone who has access to a sufficiently powerful weapon will always use said weapon to harm others." Well no, not always, but the statistics do seem to show that it often makes their anger a risk for others, and their despair a risk for themselves.
People who commit gun crimes are, largely speaking, not sociopaths who have planned it months in advance. The sociopaths will get guns regardless of whether they're legal or not. But the majority of crimes are not premeditated, and could be prevented by keeping guns away from the public.
Two common objections:
What about self defense? People tend to think that they keep themselves safe with guns, but they don't. When it's studied, we find that those with guns in the home have a three times higher chance of homicide than those that don't.
Won't people find other ways to commit suicide? Well, no. Suicide has about a 85% success rate with a gun, and no more than 10% for most other easily accessible methods. Most people will try multiple times, but if they fail once with a less effective method, then they can receive treatment and be less likely to do it again, but if they're dead, they're dead. — Unsigned, by: 69.181.254.128 / talk / contribs
[edit] Misunderstandings of the Right to Bear Arms
Many people consider the Right to Bear Arms a constitutional right. But what they do not understand, or refuse to acknowledge, is that it was an amendment to the original Constitution of 1791, not a part of it. It was in fact the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution as part of the Bill of Rights as a result of public outcry. Thus it is no different than the 14th amendment that gave us the right of citizenship in 1868, 77 years later. Therefore the constitution, despite what the far right believe, was designed to adapt to changes in society, and if the majority of states decide to make a change on citizenship or voting rights, etc., then the right to bear arms can be changed as well.
The only thing preventing a change in regard to the right to bear arms is that the requirements for such a change are based on the majority of state governments ratifying such a change rather than on the majority of the country's population. Thus the constitution's Connecticut Compromise gave a minority of the population (small mostly rural states) power over the majority that live in larger states that form the bulk of the population. And as the country grew more small states were created than large states. Gun ownership played a key role in the War of 1812 when foreign troops invaded rural farms. As a result, areas that benefit from gun ownership in order to provide security and food in areas with less police coverage are forcing their will on those areas with a serious crime problem in densely populated areas that would prefer gun control. It gets complicated when Connecticut police reports indicate that a criminals from as far away as Virginia rob affluent homes in southwest Connecticut, on an overnight excursion. So one state having no gun laws effects the safety of a state that does. So not having a national solution to the problem unfairly affects states that need a solution.
The amendment also was applied in a time when the country was primarily rural and the bulk of the land comprised of self-sustaining farms since the Industrial Revolution was in its early stages. So it made sense then, but that is no longer the case for the majority of the population.
This problem needs a solution from the gun owners themselves. Why can't gun owners limit the number of guns they own in order to keep them from being stolen or accessed by their kids, or used by someone in their home in a domestic violence situation, or taking guns to school or work? Why not keep the guns in a secure public facility away from the kids, in a facility that requires gun owners to sign the guns in and out? Why not require all gun sales be through a registered dealer with background checks? I am not asking you to not own guns, but rather to compromise and give us the right to live in our cities free of gun violence. So what stops you from compromising? If you expect us to protect your right of gun ownership, then protect our right to not have to live in fear of your guns.PragmaticStatistic (talk) 14:37, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- They like you fearing their guns, as far as I can tell. Ikanreed (talk) 14:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- The second amendment, IMHO, is there to ensure we have a supply of people that at the drop of a hat could be recruited into the army. So, if you aren't capable of being drafted into the army, if we would never trust you as a soldier even if the
LimeysFrogsKrautsRuskiesTrr'rsts were at our doors, you don't get to have a weapon. And the people than parade around town with AR-15s on their back? TERRIBLE soldiers. Oh, and handguns? All but useless in war, real soldiers go to war with rifles for a reason, so we can restrict those all we like. Never heard of a mugging with a rifle. More importantly, the "well regulated militia" means that the people with guns are properly TRAINED; I'd prefer mandatory safety courses for guns, basically what we do for cars but with guns. CorruptUser (talk) 15:16, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
- The second amendment, IMHO, is there to ensure we have a supply of people that at the drop of a hat could be recruited into the army. So, if you aren't capable of being drafted into the army, if we would never trust you as a soldier even if the