RationalWiki talk:Annotated Bible/Genesis

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What translation do we use? Should we consider multiple translations? ThunderkatzHo! 20:32, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

I am pulling this from Project Gutenberg which only has KJV I think. tmtoulouse beset 20:34, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Contents

[edit] Notes don't line up

1:1 lines up with 1:2, 1:2 lines up with 1:3 and so on all the way down. --CPAdmin1 16:13, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Yea, I will get it fixed, been in and out all day. tmtoulouse beset 20:03, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Section editing

Can anyone look at the table codes and see why clicking the edit section opens up the section below it? tmtoulouse beset 20:51, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

That is weird! SusanG  ContribsTalk 20:57, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Purpose

I'm curious what the goal of this page is. Do you want historical analysis of Genesis? Do you want a theological analysis of Genesis? Are you going to point out the various translation errors/problems/differences that occur in each line of genesis depending on the version you use? If this is an academic game, why would you use the KJV? if it's an anti "conservative game," http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ is already a rich link. --WaitingforGodot 13:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Personally, I'm adding my comments/notes/snark for the same reason that Everest is climbed - because it's here. I'd say that the purpose definately leans towards anti-fundamentalist. The Skeptics Annotated Bible is very good, but we'd might as well do our own since it is here. --Edgerunner76Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter 13:52, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
Wouldn't it be much more anti-fundamentalist to actually inform the readers about the context of the material and why it can't be interpreted literally, rather than all this pointless annotation stuff? --AKjeldsenCum dissensie 14:08, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
@AK, yes... use links to articles? ħumanUser talk:Human 23:26, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Genesis 2.24

It actually does not say require mother and father for this verse, because God is defining what his new beings will be and will do. In the future, babies will be born and grow up, I am god, I know this. When they grow up, I want them to cleave to their wife, and not their parents. While I understand the desire to blast the Bible out of the water (being an atheist myself, I do it with regularity), that doesn't mean that you just say "this line clearly proves that this is like all creation stories", you need to take the myth in context of the entirety of the myth. It's why I strongly dislike line by line theological annotations, because they tend to miss the context of the entire story.--WaitingforGodot 13:50, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

I was actually careful not to say that it provides "clear proof". I also don't agree with the idea that God is talking about the future. I think that I've already added several comments were God's precognitive powers are more than lacking. --Edgerunner76Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter 13:55, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
I agree with WfG a bit here, especially on line-by-line critiquing. Of course, the format tends to encourage that. Oh, and "his father and his mother" could be a metaphor for "Me" (capital M, get it?) ħumanUser talk:Human 23:23, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Genesis 2:25 Notes

I've not sure what the big deal is. If Michelangelo is at all reputable, then David didn't mind having his junk dangling in the wind either.

um... I don't think Michaelangelo ever met David, and he can't be all that reputable, seeing as the statue is not circumcised. --CPAdmin1 22:22, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
I never looked at the statue that closely... ħumanUser talk:Human 23:20, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Note: I am a bit drunk at the time of this writing

Please take my snark with a grain (pound) of salt. My true intention is more overarching. To me, there are so many strange things in the Bible the make it much more likely to have been written by real people long after it was supposed to have been written.
People seem to take look at the Bible in a wider way. To me, it's little things that get by the 'editors' (if you will) that really take away from the credibility of the Bible.
As often, I find many noble things about the overall message of the Bible. As Ghandi is believed to have said (more-or-less): "I like you Christ very much, I don't like your Christians." and "What a wonderful thing Christianity is, what a pity it has never been tried." --Edgerunner76Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter 00:16, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
May I add a quote from an old friend... "You may be an atheist, but you're a better Christian than most of the people in my church". Edge, I have no problem with what you're doing. Someone had to start, and we'll figure out what we're doing as time goes by. ħumanUser talk:Human 01:38, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Split?

My Gahd, it's huge!!! even without the annotations. Totnesmartin 13:59, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

I don't think we can split it without breaking the thing that Trent wrote that inserts selected verses. That no one uses ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 21:42, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Genesis 2:14

For Human, the initial point is actually not valid because the though the rivers have the same names they did not flow "approximately as they do today". Actually the old form of the criticism of this text is that the descriptions of the rivers and lands does not match current geography (the objectors in that case obviously not taking the flood into account). The Pison (or Pishon) name seems to have been reused, but nobody know what river it what re-used for (although there have been many candidates, across 2 continents, flowing in entirely different patterns/directions). Likewise many candidates have been suggested for the Gihon, including even the Atlantic Ocean! The name was re-used for a spring near Jerusalem. The Euphrates is only described as the "fourth river" so there is no flow/geography for comparison. Our Tigris (Hiddeqel) ran right through the middle of Assyria from the north-west to the south-east, not "towards the east of Assyria". Most critically, none of the candidates have shared (or close) sources. So the geography don't match what little we know of these 4 rivers. It appears that 2 (the least 2) of the 4 names were re-used. For a modern example of something similar, in Australia one can start in Brisbane and travel west-south-west to get to Texas. In the US, one can start in Brisbane and travel south-east to get to Texas. Or get directions from Ipswich to Perth (try google maps, for UK and Oz). Tricksy 15:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the remnants of the British Empire probably aren't the best examples, since they are so common (towns I live in or near: Lee Durham Dover Exeter Hampton Portsmouth York Manchester Newcastle Brentwood Epping... you get the picture). I guess the real question is, besides an old hand-me-down story, what evidence is there for those rivers being wiped out completely and then having their names re-used apres le deluge? I think that was what the comment was about, right? ħumanUser talk:Human 20:26, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, no that's not what it was saying. It is implying that those rivers are still around and still largely the same as the Gen 2 description. There are only 2 rivers that sharing a name with the Gen 2 rivers, and no rivers sharing a description, which falsifies the comment. And here I though you would just be proud that I brought it to talk! (Although the "Annotations" are mostly just comments of no set quality). Tricksy 23:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
H: why not try discussing the names of Santa's reindeer with a 5 year old? Just as informative. This message brought to you by: Toastrespondand honey 23:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Tricksy, yes, of course I'm glad you brought it here ;) I guess, really, the best thing would to have cut the "claim" (whatever it was) in the commentary to here for discussion, or if you're worried about being called nasty names, copy it here. I guess I had better revisit the article to see what it says again :) Oh, and Toast, I do consider it useful to learn about mythologies and belief systems that are widespread in our culture. ħumanUser talk:Human 00:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Mythologies, yes, but these people think they're discussing FACT. A five year old's Tooth bloody fairy! I'm interested in myths, but I know they're myths. This message brought to you by: Toastrespondand honey 01:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
(EC) hmm. "don't seem to get hounded".  :^D Tricksy 01:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, not much anyway ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 01:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

What this was all about (cut from article):

"We're expected to believe that pre-flood, there are named water courses that flowed at least approximately as they do to the present day. This, remember, is the same flood claimed to have cut the grand canyon.

Um... Who says that the rivers are the same as any in the present day? --CPAdmin1 22:23, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

Have you noticed how people go to new places and name them after old places? — Unsigned, by: Tricksy / talk / contribs

Have either of you guys noticed (as we argue by editing rather than using talk pages) that the initial point is valid? - Human"

The "commentary" seemed pretty weak, so I chopped it out. Pasted here for posterity, etc. ħumanUser talk:Human 01:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Alignment HELP

I clicked on the "edit" under notes, but when I reviewed what I'd posted it appears under the biblical quote itself. Did I booboo? --Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot"Such is life." 22:37, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

It's probably going to look bad when you edit a single section, since the html table tags are split up between them. --  Nx/talk  23:01, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah yes, put your text above the tags. --  Nx/talk  23:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)\
Thanks, NX. Won't do it again.  ;-)--Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot"Such is life." 01:31, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Gen 2:21

I've cut this from gen 2:21 as it doesn't seem to make much sense.

Start cut....

If the lack of a rib on men is being passed down genetically, wouldn't there be some sort of tissue abnormaly that comes with opening up the rib as well? Or if God is good enough to grow that section of tissue back without problems, why not grow the bone back as well?

There is no reason that the lack of a rib has been passed down at all. Ribs will grow back (if the periosteum is intact). If the whole bone is removed (but the periosteum left) natural regrowth will take a couple of months. The floating rib (lowermost) can be removed relatively easily as it is not "connected" in the same manner as the others, and it is used a bone source for grafts.

End cut ....--BobNot Jim 18:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose rehash

I'd love to work on this, but I'm not exactly sure what to do. Is it supposed to be like the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, or something a bit different? Tetronian you're clueless 21:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I think so. It's also the source for the bible tag. -- Nx / talk 21:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Just work on it - set the tone as you wish. I am eating Toast& honeychat 21:25, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Genealogy

I just noticed an error in my own math. I think I corrected it, but there might still be some errors:


Name		DoB	AoP	Son		AA	MA	DoD
Adam		0	130	Seth		130	930	930
Seth		130	105	Enosh		235	912	1042
Enosh		235	90	Kenan		325	905	1140
Kenan		325	70	Mahalalel	395	910	1235
Mahalalel	395	65	Jared		460	895	1290
Jared		460	162	Enoch		622	962	1422
Enoch		622	65	Methuselah	687	365	987
Methselah	687	187	Lamech		874	969	1656
Lamech		874	183	Noah		1057	777	1651
Noah		1057	600			1657	950	2007

DoB = Date of Birth, AoP = Age of Parenting, AA=Adam's Age, MA = Max age, DoD= Date of Death.

Feel free to check if there's any mistakes in the table. --Sigma 7 (talk) 20:42, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Worse Than Conservapedia?

many edits, none accepted, though none since 2010? RWodenoz 3/10/2013 — Unsigned, by: RWodenoz / talk / contribs

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