RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the clogosphere?

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What is going on?

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[edit] Owlman's entry

Are you saying pointing out where Russian propaganda inserts fake "news" into the conversation is evil? Maybe you should take a look at your prioridades, compañero. Worzelpete (talk) 22:39, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

No. The organization has no proof that there any connections and they themselves are anonymous.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 23:32, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
Washington Post has a tortured relationship with the truth of its own,what with their own Richard Cohen claiming that " Only a fool – or possibly a Frenchman – could conclude" that Iraq was not a dangerous state in possession of WMDs and intent on using them. How is it 'rational' to take a completely anonymous source with transparently partisan intentions at face value,as an indisputable purveyor of facts? Are we supposed to discard all of these sources as 'fake news' without bothering to see what any of them have to say? Including not only the obviously crazy ones (infowars) but some of the more well regarded ones as well (IE wikileaks?) I agree that naively accepting sources that lack credibility is a bad thing,but that very principle prevents us from accepting the WaPo article,as well!209.179.88.251 (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2016 (UTC) 19:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree that we need concrete proof of the Russian connection before claiming it as the Truth. Also let me quote Aristotle: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." But here comes the but (hehe): I think however that WikiLeaks lost a lot of its credibility with the "white noise" machine claims and other dubious statements. In Additon i consider it plausible that the Russians have their hand in that Buisness. (It is plausible not proven or true kay? )--Benaresh (talk) 20:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Saddam had to be toppled. The only problem was that the US was unwilling or unable to ensure his replacement would be better. Worzelpete (talk) 00:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
White Man's Burden, eh? London Grump (talk) 11:15, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Fix on "Newspaper Snark" December 2016 Entry

I am inexperienced and didn't know where to put this; someone copied the vote counters from the Brietbart Kellogs post and the "Newspaper Snark" post, so I fixed it, which is why it is reset. I also moved the Brietbart entry up to December and put in a better link.


[edit] Daily Kos laughs at coal miners who lose health insurance

One of the joys of reading Conservapedia is tracing back some of their MPR articles, through the partisan secondary and tertiary sources they cite, back to the original event or news article. Much fun!

One of the joys of visiting Rationalwiki is the balanced, rational approach to news and information. Much fun too.

So what the fuck is a Conservapedia MPR item doing on a Rationalwiki WIGO page? Why wouldn't the poster link the original Daily Kos article, an article that anyone with a reading age of 13 could see was ironic? Why did he/she/ze choose to link to a partisan think tank instead?

Rationalwiki is a broad church but there's no excuse for this kind of disingenuous bullshit. London Grump (talk) 11:14, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

The WIGOs are basically Owlman's personal linkstorm. What were you expecting? By the way, I'm totally with the Daily Kos here. Enough Democrat self-flagellating. If people vote for a party for whom this kind of policy is front and center and actually fucks them, it is 100% on them. They're fucking adults. NewFrenchHotness (talk) 11:20, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
The Left gets blamed for everything that went wrong. Now i think it got its entry in WIGO Clogosphere for exactly missing the point of the Daily Kos Article.--Benaresh (talk) 12:54, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
In what way is the article is the Daily Kos article ironic? I highly doubt Markos is being ironic since he wrote how great markets were for the Cato Institute. Oh, and how I am not surprised the racist NewFrenchHotness hopes people lose their healthcare because they didn't vote for a warmonger. Why don't you tell me again why the party that authorized torture isn't fascist.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 07:18, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Uhhh...maybe I shouldn't be dipping my toe into this drama, but Dems turning up their nose at working class folks is part of the reason we're in this damn mess in the first place. Plus, the writer of the article got a whole lot of heat for it in the comment section. MyNameIsMudd (talk) 07:23, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Try to ignore NFH, she he is mostly a troll and I probably shouldn't have even engaged. Nonetheless, this idea that somehow Markos is being ironic is bizarre; I don't see any proof of this. Clearly, as MNIM pointing out, his readers didn't get the joke. It certainly hasn't ceased to amaze me how many liberals have reduced this election to "idiots are running things now" since they were the morons who lost to them but classism, and racism for that matter, is certainly inherent to their meritocracy.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 07:34, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Classism I can definitely grok, but explain to me how racism and meritocracy figure into this please? MyNameIsMudd (talk) 07:36, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Well normally the poorest people in a society are the most disadvantaged race. This is especially true in countries that have been successful settled by colonizers. When Americans think about the South, they usually think of an uneducated White monolith. Through the idea of a meritocracy, liberals will justify White working class suffering by suggesting that they actively chose to be uneducated instead of them being unable to afford higher education. Through this ideology, these people deserve to lose their benefits because "they are adults" but taking these benefits away always hurts racial minorities the most because they are the poorest. This classist BS is what justified the liberal support for Bill Clinton's welfare 'reform' which "ended welfare as we know it"; that legislation ended up disproportionately affecting Black people but they were deemed to be collateral because they were probably welfare queens. When you deny the poor free education, you end up denying more Black people than White people a chance at a higher education; when you reject universal healthcare, more Black people will go without health care than White people. This meritocracy that liberals will tell you only needs to be reformed in order to work was the same meritocracy that rewarded Trump, a lying scam artist, his entire life; it would make no difference if Trump was a Black man.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 08:03, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Ah okay. You're talking about centrist Dems, the liberals-in-name-only that broke the party's back and the very same ones that are running around like headless chickens and pointing at white women gender traitors, the Russians, Bernie, Jill Stein, something, anything but their savior Hillary Clinton and their own weaknesses. They're all dead weight that needs to shape up or ship out. Even Republicans had the self awareness to do an autopsy after the 2012 loss, these chumps are spending energy deflecting and denying their weaknesses instead of, you know, examining these weaknesses and fixing them. MyNameIsMudd (talk) 08:19, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm a man, for one thing, and I don't see why you bring up racism in this. The truth is that there comes a time where the reasonable people have to stop bending over backwards to placate petty, reactionary assholes who'll cut their noses to spite their face. These people had a choice: they chose to massively vote for people whose stated policies would directly, by simple cause and effect, lead to this kind of thing. You vote for GOP, you get the GOP treatment. You choose to fuck over minorities by your vote because the only thing that matters is your own ass, pity isn't something you deserve.
Goodpost.gif Seriously. Saying that white poor working class got ignored by the Dem's in the election isn't quite factual, there was a Blog post about this a while back. Also i get that those very poor white people felt desperate and left out, but voting Trump?
A Third Party Vote would have shown that neither GOP nor Dem's adressed the Issues you cared about in a meaningfull manner. Also as Owlman Post described the problem with "Liberals" we also need to adress this false moderation a lot of people describe to. From here it looks like you had the choice between Center right(Clinton) and Far right(Trump).--Benaresh (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Okay okay, what we really need to do is not reach out to Republicans that consistently vote Republican. That might very well be a lost cause. But, but, seven million people that normally vote Dem stayed home and about a hundred thousand flipped. Those people we can win back, definitely. MyNameIsMudd (talk) 15:27, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
@BoN, who I assume is NFH. First, I apologize for misgendering you. Secondly, race runs intersectional to class issues. Though Obamacare was largely bunk, its removal will harm Blacks more than Whites. Tho reduce this to "Whites deserve it for voting the way they did" removes any opposition and creates a cudgel against Blacks that says "Blacks deserve it for not voting". It is a false narrative to say Trump won on the backs of the White working class. To reduce Trump's rise to mere racism is problematic; Obama managed to win many states Clinton lost without a problem. This narrative that "reasonable people" lost out is arrogance; reasonable people don't cover their eyes and pretend the other side has no legitimacy, reasonable people vote to better their lives.
@Benaresh A third party vote is nice but in the US a protest vote means very little. I think Americans have come to that conclusions since the two main parties never seem to change; in my precinct, there were only three positions that had a third-party candidate: comptroller, Governor, and POTUS and two of those positions weren't winnable. This idea that the Dems didn't abandon the working class is ludicrous; Thomas Frank explains how the Democrats moved away from working-class politics in his book, Listen, Liberal. On the issue for why the white working class voted for Trump, The Guardian had a great series not too long ago explaining that they believed Trump would smash the system.
@MNIM The problem is, the Democrats don't want those people back.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 20:51, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Well they better get their heads out of their asses or they'll lose in 2018, 2020 and beyond. Jesus Christ. Is there no hope left for any kind of fairness for my generation and the next? MyNameIsMudd (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Daily Mail trying to trash Snopes and the Forbes article

While the way the Daily Mail is trying to discredit Snopes is shameless, the linked Forbes article raises valid objections to Snopes' lack of transparency and hiring of people who ran for partisan offices. Perhaps the Forbes article could go on the Blogosphere? — Unsigned, by: 66.31.161.240 / talk / contribs

It really doesn't. It claims such from the guy saying he can't talk to him about a matter completely irrelevant to the content of Snopes, then claims this is evidence Snopes is untrustworthy. That is, it's literally the same attack as the DM article - David Gerard (talk) 14:30, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

[edit] What is this page for?

Are you saying The Intercept is the clogosphere here, or is it the Washington Post? FAIR.org or the Daily Kos? Snopes is part of the clogosphere, really? Nobody can tell whether to vote some of these entries up or down. It's all very confusing. ?? (talk) 11:45, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Just... wow... I'm speechless about how many nutjob bells this clog manages to hit

I stumbled on this sub page of Christipedia while digging for some confirmation of Kent Hovind's teaching record that wasn't based on his affidavit and boy does it have all the clog hallmarks. ScepticWombat (talk) 08:54, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

That damn website nearly crashed Safari and gave me an awful headache! Screen-grabbed and posted to Webshites. --Cosmikdebris (talk) 17:28, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
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