RationalWiki talk:What is going on with the elections?
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[edit] Kaine
So now we're smearing him, while ignoring his entire record and that he'll deliver Virgina to Clinton? This WIGO appears to be censored by Bernouts. Typhoon (talk) 08:41, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Just for the record, Owlman has no problem with changing the text of my submission, while insisting that I can't do the same that he does. He's also avoiding talk on this page and prefers to edit war. Typhoon (talk) 09:15, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Laurogeita Hamabost is now spreading her silent edit warring to this page. No doubt he'll lock the page soon and continue avoiding the talkpage. Typhoon (talk) 17:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- I changed one of your entries when you incorrectly stated that Sanders was mathematically eliminated which would mean he has a 0% of winning. A word of advice, though, people might not want to talk to you when you constantly make character assassinations, make conspiracy theories, and whine about being persecuted.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 18:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC) 18:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Laurogeita Hamabost is now spreading her silent edit warring to this page. No doubt he'll lock the page soon and continue avoiding the talkpage. Typhoon (talk) 17:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Kaine isn't a great choice. I think Bernie Sanders would've been best, and Elizabeth Warren would've been good. This would ensure most left-wingers would vote for the Democratic ticket rather than going Green or Libertarian. Instead she chose a centrist prick whose the ultimate political insider (mayor, governor, senator). Hillary's line of thinking: "the people arent happy with the establishment. I know what I'll do, I'll run the ultimate establishment veep who's a white male centrist. Yeah, that should woo Trump supporters!" Stupid. Pbfreespace (talk) 18:59, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Demographics are in this election cycle more important than trying to appease the eternally hostile Bernie holdouts (such as constantly whining Owlman). Around 83% percent of Bernie voters have already voiced their intent to vote for Hillary, and what remains is gutter that would never vote for her even if she picked Bernie for VP. What Hillary really needs is to shore up her support among Hispanics and Blacks (Both of which are for Kaine), and present herself as the candidate of stability and experience (in contrast to the chaos and inexperience that is Trump) which is why she picked someone who has actuall experience in governing from mayor to senator. Kaine will help her deliver crucial Virginia and Florida, and that's enough for her to gain over 270 electoral votes. Typhoon (talk) 19:05, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Most Hispanics and Blacks don't even know who this Kaine guy is. Or didn't until he was picked. And if you are after those voting blocks, why not pick a Hispanic or African-American? Or announce an intention to appoint Obama to the Supreme Court if the vacancy persists or a new one opens up? Hillary has no problem with elderly black people. But young black people don't care whether Kaine was mayor of a majority African American city in the stone age or not. Nominating someone of the Black Lives Matter crowd, now that might have delivered the crucial young black vote... another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:15, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
[edit] Reason for removal
Obama was winning since Super Tuesday in 08, but the DNC didn't try to dig up dirt on Hillary after she started losing. However, they did this for Sanders. As such, Typhoon's little addition of "oh but he was losing anyway so it doesn't matter so don't pay any attention to this! Nothing to see here!" is not warranted. PBfreespace3 (talk) 18:54, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Good. Now where's your explanation for removing source on Sanders' campaign being a mess, and source on Tim Kaine's political record? Typhoon (talk) 18:56, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- I've removed the part you mentioned. Now, will you explain your further removals of sourced material, or was that just collateral damage? Typhoon (talk) 19:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Sanders was raising more money than Hillary despite being less-known and less connected. I wouldn't call that a mess. PBfreespace3 (talk) 19:01, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Kaine wrote letters saying we should deregulate, and he likes trade deals with Sharia law countries. He's a damn corporatist prick. Saying "oh btw he's anti-gun" isn't redeeming. Pbfreespace (talk) 19:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Both of those are already mentioned, and I'm fine with keeping them. You haven't explained why we should only mention negatives and not positives. Smells like you want to intentionally push a biased point of view. Typhoon (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- OK, NARAL rating him 100%, but he opposes abortion. That seems like a Gary Johnson or Ron Paul viewpoint to me. "Abortion is wrong because Father John said so, but I won't throw women in a jail cell if they do it". Wow, how rational! How progressive! How liberal! Pbfreespace (talk) 19:10, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- He's got also approval from Planned Parenthood, you forgot. As governor, Kaine cut off state funding for abstinence-only sex education programs, citing studies which showed that such programs were ineffective, while comprehensive sex education programs were more effective. Kaine believes that both abstinence and contraceptives must be taught, and that education should be evidence-based. And regarding abortion, here's what he said:
- OK, NARAL rating him 100%, but he opposes abortion. That seems like a Gary Johnson or Ron Paul viewpoint to me. "Abortion is wrong because Father John said so, but I won't throw women in a jail cell if they do it". Wow, how rational! How progressive! How liberal! Pbfreespace (talk) 19:10, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Both of those are already mentioned, and I'm fine with keeping them. You haven't explained why we should only mention negatives and not positives. Smells like you want to intentionally push a biased point of view. Typhoon (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
“”I have a traditional Catholic personal position, but I am very strongly supportive that women should make these decisions and government shouldn't intrude. I'm a strong supporter of Roe v. Wade and women being able to make these decisions. In government, we have enough things to worry about. We don't need to make people's reproductive decisions for them
|
| —Tim Kaine |
- I do only want to mention negatives and not positives. We can get into the positives in an article, if you want. In a short summary like this news blurb, we should drive home the point that he's a centrist with illiberal views on many things. PЬFЯЗЭSPДCЗ (talk) 19:12, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Ridiculous. There is no reason to push a one-sided narrative. You would certainly be against me if I did the same by only voicing one side. It's absurd that you want to do this, and that you're even so bold in your intention to censor any positive mention of his record in order to paint him as some kind of Republican. Typhoon (talk) 19:16, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
NARAL and Planned Parenthood rate Kaine 100%, while the National Right to Life Committee gave him a ZERO. Pbfreespace3 claims this makes him anti-abortion, also sky is green and grass is blue. Facts don't matter, the only thing that does is that WIGO:Elections is Pbfreespace3 personal anti-Hillary/Kaine central.Typhoon (talk) 19:28, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, despicable me. PBfreespace (talk) 19:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- You didn't respond to my arguments above, so it's silly for you to try to end this and resume reverting. Typhoon (talk) 20:19, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Could you two please get a room and make out already? another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Do you agree with Pbfreespace3's suggestion that we should only mention negative stuff about Kaine? Typhoon (talk) 20:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with myself that you two should make out already. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- Do you agree with Pbfreespace3's suggestion that we should only mention negative stuff about Kaine? Typhoon (talk) 20:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
NARAL, HRC, Brady Campaign, LCV ratings only exist to give "progressive" cover to Beltway establishmentarians who support the Patriot Act, want to bomb Syria and restart the Cold War with China and Russia, call Black youth superpredators who need to be "brought to heel", and think Edward Snowden is a traitor not a hero. A 100% rating from any of them has no real meaning aside from partisan shilling for Democrats. 78.157.207.214 (talk) 00:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, both sides are bad, so vote for the people who want to ban abortion and hand out rocket launchers as a birthday present. Also, "restart the Cold War"? Aren't the Republicans the ones who want to bomb Russia and China? Well, okay, they seem to vacillate between that and worshiping Putin, which gives you some creepy insight into their psychology. It is best to be both feared and loved, as Machiavelli said. --Ymir (talk) 22:41, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
[edit] "I do only want to mention negatives and not positives."
Just for the record, the title for this section is PBfreespace3 actual reasoning for removing sourced text. This is a new low. It's completely shameless what some people are willing to do to smear Kaine. Typhoon (talk) 20:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Owlman, that latest WIGO is about a completely unrelated issue. I don't get why you're trying to move half of his policy positions there, while keeping the other half on the older submission. If you continue to avoid talkpage discussions while engaging in edit warring, I will have to inform mods. Typhoon (talk) 20:56, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
- However, I'm perfectly willing to move ALL of our comments (positive or negative) about his political positions to the latest WIGO, if you'd prefer it that way. No need to split them across the WIGO. Typhoon (talk) 20:59, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
[edit] Bernie speech
I'm watching Bernie's speech live. I may give some live commentary. pbfreespace (talk) 01:35, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Of course Bernie has to speak at 11 PM so few people are listening to him. PB (talk) 02:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
The crowd went wild. PB (talk) 02:53, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
I thought it was a great speech. Hopefully it can shift the rhetoric of Hillary a little to the left. It's sad to see it had to end this way. PBfreespace (talk) 04:15, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
- He's only been a member of the party for a few months, I don't see why the fuck they should give him a privileged time for his speech. NewFrenchHotness (talk) 10:40, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
- Why would they want to give him a privileged spot? Because a bunch of millions of people voted for him and they want the support and vote of those people. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 14:49, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
- Bernie was slated to go on a little earlier, but you also have to remember that 11pm EST is 8pm PST, and much of Bernie's most vocal supporters are in the west coast. I think they were shooting for 10:30pm (which is pretty much core prime time everywhere but the east coast), but just like the Republican convention they went over. Hentropy (talk) 20:49, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- Why would they want to give him a privileged spot? Because a bunch of millions of people voted for him and they want the support and vote of those people. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 14:49, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
[edit] Is popehat really a source we want to use?
I was under the impression that he was one of those not-even-a-broken-clock dark enlightenment types who has basically nothing to contribute but carefully tailored racist messages, and decrying literally every piece of criticism anyone ever receives as an infringement of free speech. Do I have him wrong? ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 17:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know, but it is another reason to mention the source as a matter of course instead of only listing it when the author feels like it. another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 19:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- Eh, I could hover over the link and see, I just wanted to engage with the Owlman, who posted it, and see if I was making a mistaken assumption. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- It depends on which author you're referring to. Clark is pretty much exactly what you've described, but other authors are better. The house position is very much free speech absolutism but aside from Clark it's mostly reasonable on other issues. — Unsigned, by: ORavenhurst / talkDo You Believe That? 20:57, 11 August 2016 (UTC) It turns out Clark left in December 2015, so there's that. There's still a definite libertarian slant but it's less egregious than Reason.
- Clark is a goddamn lunatic but has decamped to
Fahrenheit:1488Status:451. Ken is right-leaning but basically based on Earth - David Gerard (talk) 22:17, 11 August 2016 (UTC)- Okay, thanks for the clarification, guys. My biggest mistake was associating the whole blog with just one person. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 22:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- Clark is a goddamn lunatic but has decamped to
- It depends on which author you're referring to. Clark is pretty much exactly what you've described, but other authors are better. The house position is very much free speech absolutism but aside from Clark it's mostly reasonable on other issues. — Unsigned, by: ORavenhurst / talkDo You Believe That? 20:57, 11 August 2016 (UTC) It turns out Clark left in December 2015, so there's that. There's still a definite libertarian slant but it's less egregious than Reason.
- Eh, I could hover over the link and see, I just wanted to engage with the Owlman, who posted it, and see if I was making a mistaken assumption. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
[edit] The What's going on header icon - Why is it the 'globe' and not the 'politics' icon?
Something that I don't completely understand is why we're using Icon wigo world alt tilted.svg for the little select which "What's going on" page for the elections. They're elections, they're political, we have a File:Icon politics.svg, and we're using the political icon on the actual page. NavigatorBR(Talk) - 03:46, 27 August 2016 (UTC)