Talk:Anarchism

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Editorial notes
UNMERGED ARTICLE

This article was identified as a possible duplicate of anarchy, but it was decided to keep the articles separate.

I deleted the following line:

"Also, most 'anarcho'-capitalists are actually statists (who wish to privatize the monopoly over force in the hands of a few, and dislike democracy), even by the Weberian definition used by Ayn Rand."

While I don't disagree regarding the views of some self-professed an-caps, the article would better serve a "rational" purpose by offering arguments pro and con on this issue, rather than asserting an obvious opinion from one side in a vacuum. Gobligok 23:40, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] load of shit

"Some anarchists are Marxists". I stopped reading at that. From an Anarchist perspective Marxism is just another form of statism (see vanguard party, withering away of the state). 85.221.147.47 15:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Do you know what the word "some" means? It's kinda key to understanding that sentence, BON. RaoulDuke 15:10, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Probably just a case of "No True Anarchist" - the group of anarchists I know had a massive barney over whether they could do anarchy-by-committee, so in practice the definition can be pretty loose. Scarlet A.pngpostate 15:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
TL;DR version: you're wrong, I'm right. Bore everyone to death as a "form" of proving a point.
It's like saying "some Christians are also Muslim/Jewish". All forms of Marxism (Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism and more obscure ones) support "withering away of the state" which is antithetical to Anarchism, both left- and right-wing. See how in the very Communist Manifesto Marx argued that there should be created a national bank, all means of production nationalized, etc. It's Lenin who made a distinction between "socialism" (a transitory period) and "communism" where the state has "withered away". Also, everyone but left-communists are vanguardists, which are as visible to Marxists as Zoroastrianists are visible to theists.
It would have made total sense to say that "Some Anarchists are Communists", though. Though they differ how exactly "from everyone according to their ability to everyone according to their need" is implemented. (Anarcho-)Communism is more utopian than Collectivism. And there's Syndycalism which has its quirks (see CNT-FAI during the Spanish Civil War). 85.221.147.47 15:42, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
My understanding of what it means to be a Marxist is that you use "Marxist analysis," something that several different versions of anarchists use. Researcher 16:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that's far too many "ists" and "isms" for anyone to actually care about so now it's all a case of arguing definitions and semantics, which is, frankly, quite boring. Scarlet A.pngpostate 16:31, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Technically, all Marxists are anarchists, having the final goal of seeing the State abolished; most who call themselves "anarchists," however, do not redefine "the State" to mean "the mechanism by which the ruling-class dominates the workers." Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 18:40, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Not all Marxists are anarchists, or even communists. A Marxist historian, for example, doesn't necessarily have to suport a Marxist system of government, or abolition of personal property or the state. What makes him or her a Marxist is applying Marxist theory in his or her field of scholarship. I'm not sure about your most who call themselves "anarchists" statement; most anarchists I've met consider class systems to be as oppressive as the state. WėąṣėḷőįďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 19:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Remember that Marxism is a whole world-view, not just a political philosophy. The difference between a Red politician and a cultural Marxist is analogous to the difference between a Dominionist politician and a "creation scientist" (pushing the same world-view in different spheres).
To the Marxist, "State" and "class system" are all but synonymous terms. The primary difference is, I believe, that the anarchist program calls for abolishing the State in aid of abolishing class-differences, while the Marxist program calls for abolishing class-differences in aid of abolishing the State. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 19:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I know this is an ancient argument, but perhaps it would be more accurate and less controversial to state that some anarchists are Marxians. While there may be some anarchists who would refer to themselves as Marxists, you will find a great deal more who will say that their ideas are informed by Marx's writings (as were Bakunin's BTW) but would never call themselves Marxists.24.47.128.55 (talk) 21:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Begging the question

On the section "Modern anarchism" is stated

"They generally have no idea how things like abortion and scientific-based policy would be decided"

This assumes government by mentioning policy, and then attacks anarchism on that regard. It is much like the bad apologetics the community oh so vehemently makes fun of, such as saying the Bible is the word of God because it says so, and the Bible is true because it is the word of God.95.14.215.211 (talk)

OK, what would be the correct wording then?--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 16:02, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
There can't be any. In anarchy, policy is irrelevant, much like how in atheism, prayer is irrelevant. 95.14.215.211 (talk)
Are you being obtuse, or do you not understand the issue?--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Russia and Serbia in...Asia?

p tell me this is a joke please.202.171.163.7 (talk) 09:40, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. Nullahnung (talk) 09:45, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

[edit] onoz edit warring

No reason to take those three out, especially when it clearly says right there in the article that most anarchists reject anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-primitivism. Secret Squirrel (talk) 13:19, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Extreme Moonbattery?

I'm not so sure about this being in the extreme moonbattery category. While some of these versions of anarchy are usually considered nutty (i.e."Post-left") many here are also more than defendable (collectivism, mutualism, etc.) and we seem to be tossing those under that category as well. For instance a lot of the ideologies on the Libertarian page are cranky but we don't toss the whole ideology under extreme wingnuttery since their are some defendable versions (civil libertarian), and if anything this wiki usually holds libertarian socialist political philosophers as more rational than right-libertarian ones. The only times we should toss an entire ideology under one of the extremes is when its crazy beyond a shadow of a doubt (such as hard greens), or has been "tested" enough to show there's no rational reason to keep following it (such as fascism). ClothCoat (talk) 22:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Those categories are meaningless. €₳$£ΘĪÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 22:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
lol ok well I took it out hope nobody minds. ClothCoat (talk) 22:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
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