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Talk:Black helicopters

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Editorial notes

Over reliant on WP for refs it seems

This article is racist towards blacks.  :-) --Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 00:18, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Until a Helicopter-American complains, I say we leave it as is. --Gulik 02:21, 19 January 2008 (EST)
Thanks for catching this problem, I'll fix it right now! Secret Squirrel 08:10, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Talk radio[edit]

Talk radio wasn't uniformly Republican back then the way it became in the late 90s, early 00s. Alan Colmes ridiculed the idea, the usually credulous Art Bell ridiculed it and made it a running joke for a while. Limbaugh, who exists to serve the Republican Party, made a point of ignoring the matter entirely as I recall. The only talk show hosts who propagated it that I can think of were Tom Valentine and Chuck Harder, and even they were skeptical which just shows how far out the notion was. Secret Squirrel (talk) 20:47, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

You forgot Alex Jones. Also, while most of them didn't really propagate the actual black helicopter conspiracy itself, when they railed against Clinton, they didn't really mind bringing conspiracies like Vince Foster into it, at least like they do to the birthers now. Gordon Liddy-"shoot ATF agents in the head". Ann Coulter-"He was a very good rapist" (referring to Clinton) and "(sic) like Hitler". Rush was criticized for giving the Vince Foster conspiracy airtime without denouncing it. And that's not even getting into Falwell's "movie" where he had anonymous sources saying Clinton was a murderer. When Timothy McVeigh bombed Oklahoma City, it is sometimes believed, including by President Clinton himself, that talk radio and the current rhetoric against the government propelled the militia-minded McVeigh into doing what he did. I'm curious if he maybe also listened to Jones (who was around back then), who openly promoted these conspiracies like that. Rabbitxhampster (talk) 01:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Actually Alex Jones did not begin broadcasting until 1996, and then only local to Austin, Texas. He did not become nationally known until after 2001. But that's just it - Liddy, Limbaugh, Falwell et al promoted some conspiracy theories like Vince Foster, but this article isn't about Vince Foster or Clinton allegedly murdering a bunch of people, it is about allegations that fleets of black helicopters were being assembled on secret U.S. bases for an impending U.N. occupation of the nation and martial law. Alex Jones may very well believe this but he wasn't even on the air yet in 1995. In any case, my point is it is important not to simply conflate the different segments of the far right in the sense of "Rush Limbaugh promoted black helicopters, and Timothy McVeigh was a big Rush Limbaugh fan", especially when both of those are factually untrue. There are three very different segments of the right wing at play here: Limbaugh, Coulter, Liddy, Falwell, Hannity, O'Reilly and so on are part of the neocon, Republican Party serving wing of the right. Timothy McVeigh was known to be a fan of the Turner Diaries, which came out of the racist-paramilitary or neo-Nazi extreme right, which is a completely different thing. Then there is a third segment of populists and conspiracists, which really overlaps into both the right and left, where can be found Alex Jones and others like him. The differences between the three groups are differences of kind, not just degree. The origin of the "black helicopter" conspiracy theory was also in that third group, specifically from Mark Koernke ("Mark from Michigan") as a call-in guest on Tom Valentine's radio show in 1993 or 1994. It is possible, indeed likely, McVeigh was aware of the black helicopter conspiracy theory but if he was he didn't get it from Rush Limbaugh. Again, it's important not to conflate the different segments of the right wing. They are very different, and they are often at odds with each other on fundamental issues. Secret Squirrel (talk) 10:55, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Out of the right-wing figures that are prominent today, who would you sort into these three respective groups? I think it's so hollow when neocons try to sound populist. Also, I guess this makes Clinton wrong about talk radio having an influence on McVeigh, right? I also think it's interesting that the neocons are so opposed to the U.N., but the "new world order" conspiracy theory has traditionally and usually been forwarded by paleocons like Jones, who think the wars are a part of said "new world order".

Another thing I find fascinating is that certain conspiracy theories are part of the fringe on the left and right (birthers, 9/11 truthers, definitely the black helicopter hoopla), wheras other conspiracy theories are more accepted by the neocon party-at-large for their perceived benefit. (Death panels, Sharia law, Vince Foster). I guess there are different categories of conspiracies as well. Rabbitxhampster (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong..I think talk radio probably did have an effect on McVeigh. I just don't think Rush Limbaugh was an influence. I don't know who McVeigh was listening to, but a lot of the speculation centered around G. Gordon Liddy's show. How would I divide today's right wing figures, let's see:
  • Neocons: Glenn Beck, Michelle Malkin, Mark Levin, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Matt Drudge.
  • Populist and conspiracist: Alex Jones, Pat Buchanan, Lou Dobbs, Joseph Farah and WorldNetDaily, and anyone on the Republic Broadcasing Network.
  • Racist, paramilitary, white supremacist: David Duke, Stormfront, Metapedia. Maybe radio preacher Peter J. Peters.
  • There is some overlap between the first two groups. Glenn Beck and Joseph Farah could easily go into either category. There are some like Michael Savage who don't neatly fit into any category. Secret Squirrel (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I, upon further information, take back saying Rush could have had a role in McVeigh. Examining Liddy's rhetoric about shooting ATF agents in the head, it seems to appear he'd be more suspect to speculation as to what McVeigh was listening to. Rabbitxhampster (talk) 23:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Real special ops helicopters[edit]

Are either very dark gray, or a blend from lighter on the bottom to darker at the top. Black stands out against night. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 02:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but black is cool. Scarlet A.pngmoral 17:56, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Nitpick[edit]

Is it possible to capitalize the "H"? It is a title after all. Usaf2222 (talk) 01:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, actually[edit]

The black helicopters are a diversion from the real threat (which involves Flying Bedsteads 'among other things'). 82.44.143.26 (talk) 15:41, 4 March 2014 (UTC)