Talk:Chemtrails

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[edit] Recent chemtrails hearing with video

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/27/az-residents-at-chemtrail-hearing-were-being-sprayed-like-were-bugs-and-its-really-not-okay/ --ZooGuard (talk) 13:09, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

"An unidentified man in camouflage pants cited 2011 House bill (HR2977), designed to inhibit the proliferation of space-based weapons, which listed chemtrails as a possible “exotic weapons system,” along with “extraterrestrial weapons, chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.” LOL. Leuders (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


[edit] Chemtrails on NBC?

Was this video edited?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFH_Ly2Gn80--Tsunadi (talk) 05:31, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Had to watch 2 minutes of Galaxy Samsung marketing drivel. Thanks for that. Why would the video be (I assume you mean deceptively) edited? Jet exhaust vapors make trails in the sky. People see them and think the government is poisoning them. Rinse and repeat. Leuders (talk) 18:50, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Tested in LA?

Sorry for another topic, but I've seen a video that stated from the news that chemtrails were testen in LA, california.--Tsunadi (talk) 08:02, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Climate change?

Just pulling stuff out of my fundament here, but I see a lot of assertions from the "chemtrail" crowd that contrails are more prevalent now than they've ever been, and therefore MUST be something different. Was just reading a site discussing contrails and how they're formed, and I realized something - contrails are formed by water particles/ice in the upper atmosphere, and one of the consequences of global warming is increased energy in the climate system with increased evaporation leading to more water vapor in the air. More water vapor = more condensation = more and longer-lasting contrails. This sound reasonable? --Pere Ubu (talk) 14:23, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I think it's something much more prosaic: a combination of selective memory and a general increase in air traffic.--ZooGuard (talk) 18:36, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I'm not arguing; it's just a suggestion in the event that the "these can't be contrails because they last too long" argument comes up, which I've seen it do. It would also be interesting to see where the reports are most common; under my theory I think you would be getting far more reports of "chemtrails" from coastal/plains areas (wetter) than the drier desert areas. --Pere Ubu (talk) 19:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
At height isn't water content of the atmosphere fairly constant? (JAQ) Scream!! (talk) 20:13, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
[1] Leuders (talk) 22:26, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
That would seem to strengthen my case - more water vapor, longer-lasting contrails. Though more energy also means more wind, which dissipates contrails faster. I guess I'm going mainly for "people who notice them are noticing them because they are looking for them" and let it lie there. (And you have to feel for the poor guy trying to explain it to these mooks only to be greeted with "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR? HOW MUCH ARE THEY PAYING YOU!?" *facepalm* --Pere Ubu (talk) 19:23, 22 October 2014 (UTC)


[edit] You guys need to read this.

http://www.thetruthdenied.com/news/2012/08/06/mick-west-owner-of-contrailscience-lies-once-again-please-be-aware/

You need to read this. Contrails are NOT water vapor. Anyone who says that is a shill, as even mainstream science doesn't claim this.--BnBn (talk) 13:56, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, and I remember hearing this one song where the singer admits they shot the sheriff, but denies shooting the deputy. I bet it was the government that shot the deputy. He knew too much. :( King Skeleton (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Tell me, buddy. Pal. Friend. Let's talk about this like scientists, who, for a moment, have a hypothesis that "chemtrails" are an extant thing, and not condensation. What does your test for this hypothesis look like? How do you falsify your theory? Having "reason" to believe you're right is well and good, but most important to be right is having a way of telling that you're wrong. What would tell you you're wrong? Ikanreed (talk) 15:06, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
A poe, or a brilliant illustration of crank magnetism? I mean, so far BnBn's posts has ticked both the evolution denial, Illuminati conspiracy theories, NWO and Satanic panic boxes and now chemtrails too. Looking forward to which crankery du jour is coming next. Still, judging by some of the responses to the Satanism post, at least one person seems to have been entertained by the nonsense - every cloud... ScepticWombat (talk) 15:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I hadn't been following the shenanigans. As long as it's contained to talk pages, I guess there's no harm. Ikanreed (talk) 15:21, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] This is not actually a crank pot "conspiracy theory"

Barium tracers are used in rockets for atmosphere and ionosphere studies. Look up tracer rocket. Barium photoionizes from UV exposure to create a plasma that can be used to track movements of the atomosphere. It is used in several atmosphere tracking, radar calibration and ionosphere research programs. That is not controversial.

Barium Sulfate is 27% of coal fly ash by weight, so it ends up in atmosphere and rainwater from coal plants. The issue is not "do chemtrails exist", but rather "is this water vapor" or "is this aluminum and barium" or "is this condensation from sulfur particles in exhaust". The scientific question is whether these are commercial or military planes, whether it is cloud seeding or an atmospheric study or a radar study. The other question is the frequency.

Obviously not every plane leaving trail is spraying chemicals. There are obviously planes doing cloud seeding. Clouds are seeded near ocean by salt particles in air. Aerosols of salts are being used for cloud seeding as cheaper alternative to silver iodide flares. Texas, Utah, California all have state funded cloud seeding programs, that spray "chemtrails". This has been going on since 70s.

http://water.utah.gov/cloudseeding/

There are also military planes doing atmospheric aerosol release studies. The "conspiracy theory" began in 1998 after a massive increase in the appearance of trails, or an increased awareness of them. I would not consider this a "conspiracy theory" as much as a failure to respond to public inquiry about the program by denying it.

Both the US, China, India and the EU have radar and atmospheric tracking programs that use barium salt aerosols. There is a question about the health effects, so it would be easiest to just deny the program, instead of inviting scrutiny from public and being subject to environmental reviews. The question is whether they are performing 5 releases per year or 20,000 and whether this program accounts for the trails or the trails are water vapor and program scope is exagerated.

Its only a "conspiracy theory" if you ignore the government websites for the programs. — Unsigned, by: 23.242.75.236 / talk 16:11, 15 March 2015‎

Cloud seeding is not chemtrails, but a well-known and rather mundane technique applied in very dry areas (like Utah). I note that any citations about the vague allegations that extrapolates from Utah's cloud seeding to a massive global chemtrail conspiracy are conspicuously missing... ScepticWombat (talk) 17:17, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
From the heading - This is not actually a crank pot "conspiracy theory". It's certainly a conspiracy theory and it's as "crank pot" (I love that) as they come.--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 18:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, noticed that one too, but thought it was too easy/cruel to bring it up. I wonder, do you think a "crank pot" is more crack pot than a crack pot and more cranky than a crank? ScepticWombat (talk) 18:58, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
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