Talk:Chickenhawk
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[edit] Ain't that just
ad hominem?--Arisboch (talk) 19:27, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
- No. Labeling them chickenhawks because they are extremely pro-war, but have no actual combat service and likely never would if given the chance, isnt an ad hominem because it's ultiamtly based on something they do/don't do, not just the fact we don't like them or such. It's the same as brought up on the Rape page, calling somebody a rape apologist because they defend rape isn't an ad hominem because they are defending rape. --Miekal 19:37, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
- Nope, this label implies, that someone's ideas of military policy is less worth, when he wasn't in the military--Arisboch (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Labeling people like this seems pretty bogus from the perspective of people from nations that don't/hardly participate in wars. But the US gets involved in wars all the time, so I guess their abundance of war-worn former soldiers means over in America you get to shame the war proponents that haven't been in the military? Is the opinion of non-military war proponents really always inferior by default? 141.134.75.236 (talk) 21:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, the opinion of a jingoistic draft-dodger is of questionable value. One might say that it is putting Kant's categorical imperative ass-backwards, sending other people to do a dangerous job that one wasn't willing to do oneself when the opportunity arose.
- Labeling people like this seems pretty bogus from the perspective of people from nations that don't/hardly participate in wars. But the US gets involved in wars all the time, so I guess their abundance of war-worn former soldiers means over in America you get to shame the war proponents that haven't been in the military? Is the opinion of non-military war proponents really always inferior by default? 141.134.75.236 (talk) 21:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Nope, this label implies, that someone's ideas of military policy is less worth, when he wasn't in the military--Arisboch (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Those who have seen organized murder and mayhem, up close and personal, tend to recognize war for the stupid wasteful process it is. Based on my own experience, and on conversations with other veterans, I suspect that they would rather have our leaders think long and hard before engaging in a shooting war. Alec Sanderson (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- If you're not willing to fight, you shouldn't send others to do it for you. (Kant's CI and all that morality-applies-to-everyone jazz)
- That said, this comes dangerously close to ad hom. Just cuz someone supports war but hasn't been to war doesn't mean they're wrong. (FDR is an example of being right but not having fought (regardless of his ability to do so).) FüzzyCätPötätö (talk/stalk) 22:54, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- FDR gets a pass for obvious reasons. There are some far-fetched scenarios where accusations of chickenhawkery might be used as an ad hom attack, but in general, it is grounds for questioning the validity of calls to war. Any politician who was fit for service, and bolted, should understand that thing about Caesar's wife avoiding the appearance of impropriety. Sadly, the appearance of hypocrisy is not too damaging to a political career. Alec Sanderson (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Those who have seen organized murder and mayhem, up close and personal, tend to recognize war for the stupid wasteful process it is. Based on my own experience, and on conversations with other veterans, I suspect that they would rather have our leaders think long and hard before engaging in a shooting war. Alec Sanderson (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2015 (UTC)