Talk:Child sexual abuse

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[edit] Misusing the term pedophile

The term pedophile should not be used at all in the meaning child molester. Also I don't think pedophilia or pedophile should redirect to child sexual abuse. The explanation in the section "Pedantic definitions" is good, but why to use incorrect terms in the first place? It creates strong prejudices about pedophiles. I thought the goal of this website is to fight widespread errorneous beliefs. It would be great to create a page about pedophilia, there is a lot of claims about pedophilia that are rather assumed that supported by evidence. And it would be great to document using the term pedophile in different meaning and the confusion it makes. It's problem even in scientific studies. And it's kind of a rule in the news. It's a serious problem, for example the statements of sexologists about pedophilia gets frequently misrepresented by bigoted groups trying to use any kind of such statements against homosexuals. And it spreads also among normal people, making for example any attempts on the preventive work with pedophiles nearly politically impossible. --Simgiran (talk) 22:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

I deleted the redirects from 'pediphilia' and 'pedophile'. Sophophobe (talk) 16:43, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
That was unhelpful. They're linked from about fifty pages. ΨΣΔξΣΓΩΙÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 18:24, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
The solution would be to create a separate pedophilia article. Landmartian (talk) 18:21, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I suggested it before but it wasn't a popular suggestion. WèàšèìòìďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 18:40, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Write it anyway, and if it gets deleted, post it to a more receptive wiki. Landmartian (talk) 18:42, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] More sources about how it is genuinely harmful

So, all these basically deliver the cold hard facts of objective harm to various degrees. And in various ways. Let's have no more pedos coming in crying crocodile tears about "moral panics". Ikanreed (talk) 17:02, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Ever found anything about the subtler kinds of counter-factual harm? For example, a woman I know was sexually abused as a child and became a stripper and didn't think sexual harassment existed. Any of that? MarmotHead (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I was specifically looking at the journal of childhood maltreatment. Being a scientific journal, it tends towards more objective measures. Suffice it to say, trying to mix the idea of evidence and subjective understanding like that never really works out meaningfully. Quantifiable negative outcomes are more than enough for me. I don't know though, maybe a psychology journal? Ikanreed (talk) 17:19, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I've been looking, but can't get a handle on it. I've just been thinking about how best-of-class research methods can't really catch all the harm (i.e. prospective or randomized studies). Plenty, yes, but not all. Maybe making that point is enough when combined with the more measurable. MarmotHead (talk) 17:24, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
A journal I just stumbled upon that might be up this alley: Journal of Interpersonal Violence: Concerned with the Study and Treatment of Victims and Perpetrators of Physical and Sexual Violence. We'll see. Ikanreed (talk) 19:21, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
this is a good one for the bogus claim that our collective labeling it as abuse is what causes harm. Ikanreed (talk) 19:31, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Excellent! It also neatly ties in the "other factors" argument and has clearer definitions than the meta-analyses of university-based samples. MarmotHead (talk) 19:47, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Your earlier question

It's not quite the same as "becoming a stripper(with sexist beliefs)", but there is evidence that childhood sexual abuse increases the likelihood of prostitution. here ya go. Ikanreed (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Do I detect a subtle unstated bias against strippers and prostitutes?--Coffee (talk) 18:58, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Ooh, good point. But the left has mixed feelings about those professionals. On the one hand, they think it's awesome to break free from religious/authoritarian strictures on sex and nudity, and to use one's body as one sees fit. On the other hand, they see sex work (like other paid labor) as being potentially exploitative, especially if it's mostly heterosexual men (who supposedly benefit from a wage gap) obtaining pleasure from women, or the destitute going into the sex trade out of desperation. So basically, the logic would be, "People get abused as children, and then come to believe exploitation is normal; therefore, they enter into another exploitative trade as adults." Or maybe they don't even wait to become adults before entering into that trade. Landmartian (talk) 19:06, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Pedophilia and the gay rights movement

The article says "NAMBLA has never been accepted by the mainstream LGBT community, and has not existed as a functional organization for decades." They weren't expelled from the International Lesbian and Gay Association until 1994. In 1985, ILGA adopted a position on "Age of Consent/Paedophilia/Children's Rights" that urged member organizations to "lobby their governments to abolish the age of consent law" so long as there is "adequate protection for youth from being sexually abused without the age of consent law." In 1986, ILGA adopted a position that says the group "supports the right of young people to sexual and social self-determination." In 1988, ILGA declared "this conference recognizes that existing same-sex age-of-consent laws often operate to oppress and not to protect; that in many countries, existing laws on sexual coercion and rules of evidence also often operate to oppress and not to protect; that therefore member organizations are urged to consider how best children, adolescents, and people of all ages can be empowered and supported against both sexual coercion and sexual oppression and to work towards that end." In 1990, ILGA "calls on all members to treat all sexual minorities with respect and to engage in constructive dialogue with them. In another position adopted that year, ILGA declared that it "supports the right of every individual, regardless of age, to explore and develop her or his sexuality." Etc., etc.

If you look through old issues of the Journal of Homosexuality, you'll find articles such as this one that draw parallels between homosexuality and pedophilia. There was an era during which there was some overlap between the age of consent reform agenda and the gay rights agenda; for example, a Guardian opinion piece notes, "The PIE was in favour of lowering the age of consent to 10. This, we are now all in accord, is far too young. But age of consent was a huge topic for debate at that time, for a number of reasons. Homosexuals had to be five years older than heterosexuals before they were considered mature enough to consent. That, to our eyes, looks pretty homophobic."[1] In general, there was some overlap between age of consent reform and other forms of sexual liberation; in early 1980s Germany, "Some Greens-allied groups argued at the time that legalizing pedophilia was part of rebuilding postwar German society into something more open and just."[2]

If some gays or leftists supported changes in the age of consent laws decades ago, that's not really all that big a deal. It doesn't mean people who oppose that agenda should refrain from supporting those organizations, any more than people should refrain from voting Democratic because some notable Democrats opposed civil rights laws. What matters is what these parties support today. Therefore, there is no need to whitewash the past. Landmartian (talk) 17:37, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Castration

"Some pedophiles, convicted and otherwise, have undergone physical or chemical castration to limit the risk they present to others." It's probably not a large number of them. Landmartian (talk) 18:06, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Victims without symptoms

Can we get an explanation of what's dubious about the claim that a lot of victims don't have symptoms? Landmartian (talk) 01:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Is it relevant that some people are apparently unfazed from being the victim of 'mild pedophilia' (like Richard Dawkins apparently) to the claim that child sexual abuse poses developmental risks? Something being risk-y doesn't mean it'll result in disaster every time. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 01:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
(EC) Well, it's the sort of claim that exonerates wrongdoers. In this case, folks who rape kids.
Also, phrases like "a lot" and "a large minority" aren't especially helpful here.
Finally, it's cited to an article in an unspecified journal from 25 years ago. This makes it inconvenient for readers to verify what the source actually says & how well it tallies with what you're claiming it says. WēāŝēīōīďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 01:18, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Oh, that journal was Professional psychology, research and practice. Landmartian (talk) 02:44, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
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