Talk:Child sexual abuse
[edit] Any room for some religious views?
Numbers 31:17-18 Mohammed having a 9yo wife Many Muslims still having arranged marriages to people that age. Or is all this in another section I haven't seen? Omni314 (talk) 02:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
- Add them, if you want. but remember, entire cultures the world around believed that women's (girl's) value was to have children. most cultures married their girls off as soon as they could menstruate. That's not "abuse" at that point.--
GodotBe informed. Vote. 02:17, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Women and girls were treated as property in many patriarchal societies and children of either sex were/are sometimes treated as property. It was/is harmful but may not be considered abuse. Proxima Centauri (talk) 11:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
[edit] Re: "WTF laws"
I included it because it seemed relevant to the article, and about as relevant to the missions guidelines as the article itself. Also: depressing education which I must share with the world because it was shared with me--Token Conservative (talk) 04:34, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- There's nothing WTF about it. You can't legislate against the kinds of pretences or fantasies people can indulge in for gratification when they're not harming a minor. Ŵêâŝêîôîď
Methinks it is a Weasel 06:02, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not against including the information, but why is it a bad thing? (talk to a) Nihilist 13:23, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Am I the only one assuming that the people who would call a sex hotline to talk about molesting a seven year old is more likely than the general population to have molested a seven year old? You know, maybe use the credit card/phone number to tell the police so that they can do a check on these people? Or maybe at least outlaw the practice of firing hotline workers who hang up on a fucking pedophile.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- If you start acting against people because of their sexual fantasies then you're on a very slippery slope. If you read internet porn then you will find that there is a vast market for fantasies about what has suddenly become a sickening reality in Cleveland. Are you going to legislate against them as well? And what about all that crap that comes over from Japan. Most of the Hentai that I have seen is pretty sickening. Should that be illegal? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- To make my point, go to the Wikipedia article on Hentai and tell me that it doesn't have a picture of a clearly under age girl participating in sexual congress. Oh, NSFW, by the way. Where are you going to draw the line? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I will draw the line when we aren't allowing pedophilia by proxy.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- And what is that supposed to mean? Seriously, turn that high minded phrase into a law that could actually be applied. And, why this focus on paedophilia? Why not all non consensual sex? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:48, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Because I didn't just watch an interview with a sex hotline worker who said its really common to be asked to do rape fantasies? And you know, this article is about pedophilia.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- There are established fetish cultures around adults roleplaying as babies or children; some of it may be more-or-less pedophilic, or it may just be people fetishising some aspects of childhood itself. You're welcome to find it creepy, but as long as it's not actually harming real children, there's nothing much you can or should do about it. Pedophillia isn't a crime, and if pedophiles can indulge their fantasies without harming children (e.g. through a sex hotline), where is the harm? Wëäŝëïöïď
Methinks it is a Weasel 18:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- There's a huge difference between "I want to pretend to be a baby" and "I want you to pretend to be a seven year old". And I would love to have some reason to think that pedophiles can indulge their fantasies without hurting children.--Token Conservative (talk) 18:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- How are children hurt by an adult calling up a sex hotline for adults, and speaking to an adult who maybe pretends to be a child? Wëäŝëïöïď
Methinks it is a Weasel 19:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Children get molested in Japan every day. --81.175.239.201 (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- One leads to the other?--Token Conservative (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- In the general sense that wanking leads to rape, yes. The counterargument is that in a lot of cases it doesn't. Wėąṣėḷőįď
Methinks it is a Weasel 21:29, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Well, thats a wonderfully irrelevant comparison.--Token Conservative (talk) 21:38, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- It's not irrelevant or a comparison: based on your last comment, "wanking leads to rape" appears to be the exact argument that you are making. If you don't think so, please expand on what items you are referring to when you say "one leads to the other"? Wëäŝëïöïď
Methinks it is a Weasel 21:47, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Don't be obtuse Weasel. We both know that there is an enormous gulf between "masturbation -> rape" and "acting out rape fantasies for money -> rape".--Token Conservative (talk) 21:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see the big difference. Basically, one is solitary and the other has assistance, but they're both still masturbation. (talk to a) Nihilist 22:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Masturbation is a general thing that could be about anything; paying to act out a fantasy of an illegal act is a different, more specific thing.--Token Conservative (talk) 22:26, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- What has paying got to with anything? Lots of couples act out rape play as part of their sex life. Some people have similar fantasies but no partner (or a partner who isn't comfortable with that), so they may use porn or a hotline instead. Why should they be considered more of a threat than people who act out these fantasies within a relationship, or indeed people who have the same fantasies but don't share them with anyone? Wẽãšẽĩõĩď
Methinks it is a Weasel 22:43, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- What has paying got to with anything? Lots of couples act out rape play as part of their sex life. Some people have similar fantasies but no partner (or a partner who isn't comfortable with that), so they may use porn or a hotline instead. Why should they be considered more of a threat than people who act out these fantasies within a relationship, or indeed people who have the same fantasies but don't share them with anyone? Wẽãšẽĩõĩď
- Masturbation is a general thing that could be about anything; paying to act out a fantasy of an illegal act is a different, more specific thing.--Token Conservative (talk) 22:26, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see the big difference. Basically, one is solitary and the other has assistance, but they're both still masturbation. (talk to a) Nihilist 22:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Don't be obtuse Weasel. We both know that there is an enormous gulf between "masturbation -> rape" and "acting out rape fantasies for money -> rape".--Token Conservative (talk) 21:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- It's not irrelevant or a comparison: based on your last comment, "wanking leads to rape" appears to be the exact argument that you are making. If you don't think so, please expand on what items you are referring to when you say "one leads to the other"? Wëäŝëïöïď
- Well, thats a wonderfully irrelevant comparison.--Token Conservative (talk) 21:38, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- In the general sense that wanking leads to rape, yes. The counterargument is that in a lot of cases it doesn't. Wėąṣėḷőįď
- One leads to the other?--Token Conservative (talk) 21:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Children get molested in Japan every day. --81.175.239.201 (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- How are children hurt by an adult calling up a sex hotline for adults, and speaking to an adult who maybe pretends to be a child? Wëäŝëïöïď
- There's a huge difference between "I want to pretend to be a baby" and "I want you to pretend to be a seven year old". And I would love to have some reason to think that pedophiles can indulge their fantasies without hurting children.--Token Conservative (talk) 18:59, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- There are established fetish cultures around adults roleplaying as babies or children; some of it may be more-or-less pedophilic, or it may just be people fetishising some aspects of childhood itself. You're welcome to find it creepy, but as long as it's not actually harming real children, there's nothing much you can or should do about it. Pedophillia isn't a crime, and if pedophiles can indulge their fantasies without harming children (e.g. through a sex hotline), where is the harm? Wëäŝëïöïď
- Because I didn't just watch an interview with a sex hotline worker who said its really common to be asked to do rape fantasies? And you know, this article is about pedophilia.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- And what is that supposed to mean? Seriously, turn that high minded phrase into a law that could actually be applied. And, why this focus on paedophilia? Why not all non consensual sex? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:48, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I will draw the line when we aren't allowing pedophilia by proxy.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- To make my point, go to the Wikipedia article on Hentai and tell me that it doesn't have a picture of a clearly under age girl participating in sexual congress. Oh, NSFW, by the way. Where are you going to draw the line? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- If you start acting against people because of their sexual fantasies then you're on a very slippery slope. If you read internet porn then you will find that there is a vast market for fantasies about what has suddenly become a sickening reality in Cleveland. Are you going to legislate against them as well? And what about all that crap that comes over from Japan. Most of the Hentai that I have seen is pretty sickening. Should that be illegal? Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- Am I the only one assuming that the people who would call a sex hotline to talk about molesting a seven year old is more likely than the general population to have molested a seven year old? You know, maybe use the credit card/phone number to tell the police so that they can do a check on these people? Or maybe at least outlaw the practice of firing hotline workers who hang up on a fucking pedophile.--Token Conservative (talk) 17:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
"Paying" because it shows more determination. You are giving someone money, giving them plenty of means of finding you, and then asking them to fantasize through an illegal act. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like that is the kind of person who is more likely to actually act on pedophilic desires because they have those desires, and are kind of open about it.
And even if I grant you that this shouldn't be illegal, I would like to hope that we can agree that the hotline workers should not have to do this, or be fired, at the very least. If the issue is the focus on "why is this legal" rather then "why are the workers in a situation of 'do this or be fired'" I can probably reword it and find a different place for it.--Token Conservative (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)