Talk:Christopher Hitchens

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[edit] Fighting Islamofascism

Hitchens's clamant opposition to Islamofascism was set off, by his own account, in 1989 by the Rushdie fatwa, not "overnight" as a result of September 11. As for his drop-off in influence "among some who might otherwise be interested in his books on atheism," the number-five ranking on Foreign Policy's list of public intellectuals suggests otherwise, and his views on Islamism are wholly in keeping with the particular strand of godlessness which earns him so much praise from the reality-based community.

I have, accordingly (and because, being new here, I don't want to seem officious), fact-tagged the offending claims.— Unsigned, by: Robertson-Glasgow / talk / contribs

No need to just tag. Go to work, tear that sucker to pieces.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 04:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
That's very interesting, considering the term and concept of "Islamofascism" didn't even exist until it was suddenly invented by the warbloggers on or about September 12, 2001.— Unsigned, by: 193.200.150.137 / talk / contribs 01:36, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Intro Sentence

I just wanted to say as I'm browsing RW... Whoever wrote the current intro sentence is awesome. That's all. 65.186.83.127 (talk) 20:55, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

[edit] If you pray for him, he'll kick your ass

I hate to spoil a joke with nitpicking, but the humour here is withered by the fact that Hitch has gone on record as saying he is happy for people to pray for him if it makes them feel better. 81.137.227.129 (talk) 12:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was gonna add the Atlantic ref which included a note that if you really want to make him feel better you'll buy Hitch 22 - David Gerard (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Good call. 86.165.128.38 (talk) 20:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Why the hero worship?

Christopher Eric Hitchens is what every self-respecting gentleman aspires to be, viz. a drunken, chain-smoking, atheistic, foul-mouthed, British genius. I changed the last word to 'twat'. I quite like Hitchens, he's a lot like my internet persona. But internet atheists admire him as a high priest of atheism, which is both childish and silly. He is no cult figure, he is an atypical contrarian twat. Don't mythologise him. Thank you.

Everyone knows that Harris is the high priest of atheism. Occasionaluse (talk) 15:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Also, Hitchen's kind are ten a penny in British academia. That polemical style is popular and a staple of Oxbridge graduates with a superiority complex. The only difference is that he has achieved public notoriety. 86.40.206.159 (talk) 15:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I changed it back to "genius" which although I disagree with, "twat" is worse... Quarupenguin - You can't explain that! 17:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Calling him a twat is called gentle mocking. The Hitch would approve. 86.40.206.159 (talk) 19:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the problem is...Is "twat" worse than I think it is? Occasionaluse (talk) 19:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
A twat is a ladies vagina. I suspect some people would be appalled at the idea of Christopher Hitchens reminding them of a ladies vagina. 86.40.206.159 (talk) 19:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
"A twat is a ladies vagina" - as opposed to a mans vagina? What's the difference? AceX-102 19:28, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I blew chunks out my nose at that one. ħumanUser talk:Human 10:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I thought "twat" and "cunt" were words limeys and the like used when they were being colorful, not rude/offensive. I guess British people like me a lot less than I thought they did :( Occasionaluse (talk) 19:30, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
You may have been confused, since MC is a good deal more "colourful" than most. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 20:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I always felt "twat" was on the same level as "bone her" or "pork her".. What are we, 12? Can't we just go with "asshole"? Quarupenguin - You can't explain that! 20:05, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I like "twat" for the article. "Genius" is a bit over the top. But I will agree with any better word offered. ħumanUser talk:Human 10:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

(undent)"Twat" is one of those interesting words. Whilst, strictly speaking, a synonym for "cunt" it has nothing like the emotional impact and, in many areas (Glasgow being one that I know of) is used as a synonym for "Twit". c.f. Berk. Notably in the film "The Boat That Rocked" one of the petty minded bureaucrats is called Twat, they would never have dreamed of naming him Cunt. Whether it's a suitable description for CH is another matter, personally I prefer the ironic "genius". Jack Hughes (talk) 10:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

So should we use "genius" in ironic quote marks? ħumanUser talk:Human 10:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure he qualifies as either a cunt, twat or berk or anything like that. Son-of-a-bitch, maybe, but let's not argue semantics too much :S Scarlet A.pngtheist 10:52, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Arsehole smartass works for me. Scarlet A.pngtheist 10:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
"Twat" and "cunt" are sexist--implying that women's genitalia are bad. How about "know-it-all," "wanker," or "former-hardcore-leftist-turned-Bush-cheerleader-now-backpeddler?"205.189.194.208 (talk) 18:13, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Why do the left have such a problem with heroism? What banal lives you must lead when you believe that no-one is remarkable, no-one is better than anyone else. Has it occurred to you that Hitchens achieved public notoriety because he was superior to other Oxbridge graduates in terms of intellect, personality, bravery and personal conviction? --Let Them Eat Cake (talk) 12:38, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to say, Hitchens comes across as a bit of a blundering buffoon in the article... Nullahnung (talk) 14:34, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
So it's pretty accurate, then? {{SUBST:PSALsig}} 14:39, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

[edit] intro sentence

not very..hm rational greets--Ratio-Duff (talk) 23:26, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Takes a shot. It's called SPOV. Тytalk 23:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I doubt anyone reading RW needs a dead serious biography of Hitch, there's The Other Wiki for that. ADK...I'll reward your microcosm! 08:36, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
hhm yes, but pure insulting or similar useless stuff just for the coolness(i think) should be part of wikis like conservapedia or something, i thought that in a so called RW people should express their opinions in another way... greets--Ratio-Duff (talk) 00:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Insulting? Hardly. It's not "fat lousy atheist" crap for a start. But as I said we have wp:Christopher Hitchens for things less entertaining. ADK...I'll absorb your cookie cutter! 18:38, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

[edit] The Hitch has popped his clogs

Vale Christopher. I'll try to find some details. MtDPinko Scum 05:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Here. In the meantime... awkwardly switch out the present for the past-tense in the article  :\ Star of David.png Radioactive Misanthrope 05:12, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Found 'em and was updating but Archie beat me to it. MtDPinko Scum 05:15, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Tabbed browsing is your friend ^_^ ArchieGoodwin (talk) 05:17, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
You meddling kidz! MtDPinko Scum 05:19, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Sad, sad, sad. I was just given his newest book, Arguably, last weekend. Sad. AceAce For Mod! 05:53, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
"God is Not Great" is now treading worldwide on twitter. Some amusingly angry responses. Jaxe (talk) 05:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] RIP

He died on my friend's birthday. It was also the birthday of Oscar Niemeyer. It was also the anniversary of the ratification of the Bill of Rights. There is no one else like him. He was a flawed man; no doubt about that. However, his flaws made him a Byronic hero; he was a drinking, smoking & wealthy INTJ maverick. A lot like me. That is not to say that I was an equal to him-few were. Few are. I graduated summa cum laude at valedictorian of Harvard & Yale Law school. I may have been valedictorian at prep school. I may be a Rhodes Scholar. However, I am nothing compared to Hitchens. I started reading his books at a very young age. I will never forget the first time I ever read on of his books; It was September second. I took out God is Not Great from the library. It seemed like an unassuming book; God, was I wrong! The man was, at once, a visionary, rational, intellectual, wit, genius, pundit, nonconformist and cynic. --Yuppie (talk) 20:24, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Hitchens on torture

The article claims that Hitchens supported waterboarding before trying it himself. That's not true. He was always against it, but volunteered to have it done anyway so that he might write about it from a more knowledgeable perspective. Unless someone can cite an article or interview where he said something in favor of it, I'm deleting that part of the article. His "Believe me, it's torture" article doesn't indicate in any way that he ever felt differently about it. — Unsigned, by: 108.73.129.72 / talk / contribs

Even a hate blog - despite attempting, and then concluding that it's true anyway - can't really justify saying he's supported torture. I mean, "international byword for Yankee imperialism and sadism" is him defending Abu Ghraib? I must have missed that English lesson where we were told "it's still shit, but not quite as shit as before" means "I absolutely endorse this shit because I love it". Scarlet A.pnggnostic 11:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Didn't like anyone?

"In fact, looking back on his forty year career, there wasn't anyone Hitchens liked." What about George Orwell, Thomas Paine, Gore Vidal, Martin Amis, Richard Dawkins? — Unsigned, by: 130.209.6.40 / talk / contribs

I think that except is intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that is the famous RationalWiki Snarky Point of View (SPoV) that you have missed there. Hitchens had many close friends like you mentioned and I would add Salmon Rushdie and Stephen Fry to that list as well. DamoHi 13:17, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Might be worth amending, not sure the joke is that clear. Scarlet A.pngmoral 21:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

[edit] On the pacifist status of Trotskyism

Split off from #Fighting Islamofascism above.--ZooGuard (talk) 06:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Can we talk about the fact Trotskyism is in no way a pacifist philosophy, it was merely that they supported Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong so they wanted the full withdrawal of Capitalist troops? This is off-the-mark wrong about everything with his life prior to 9-11. — Unsigned, by: Andrewstewart1 / talk / contribs

And that's relevant to any-fucking-thing here? --Revolverman (talk) 04:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
(EC) There is no evidence that Hitchens ever deviated from pacifism and the branch of Trotskyism Hitchens belonged to was always a bit different. Can you be more specific with what he have gotten wrong about his early life? (And can you also please sign your comments?) Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 05:05, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Uh, his entire post-9/11 thing was saying he was a 'former' Trotskyist. As for Trotskyism itself, it is a militant form of Communism, based on the teachings of Red Army founder Leon Trotsky. It originates as a counter to a slur from Stalin about whether or not Trotsky was meant to succeed Lenin as head of the Bolshevik Party. During the Russian Civil War, he shot prisoners and ordered purges, including a famous one at a naval base called Krondstadt that basically shut down the town because they were sick of Lenin being a dick. The hinge of Trotskyism was a Communist Revolution in 1919 Germany, which would lead to a world-wide Communist Party rulership. Stalin was in favor of a policy of internal economic development as opposed to internationalist slogans, so he basically played himself as a moderate, claimed Trotsky was a terrorist and Nazi collaborator, and launched a show trial to consolidate power. Some tenets of Trotskyism include forced collectivization, militarization of the labor force, and outright confrontation with Capitalist governments, as well as direct opposition to Anarchism, Libertarian Socialism, Democratic Socialism, and all forms of Pacifism. He began to favor conservative policies as early as the Falklands War under Thatcher and only amped it up with the Rusdie affair. CF. Un-Hitched, The Trial of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Seymour, Verso Press.--Andrewstewart1 (talk) 05:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm well aware of what Trotskyism is, however, you have yet to present any evidence contradicting what is also stated, namely that Hitchens himself was a pacifist. He self-identified with the Trotskyites of International Socialist which was always a bit unorthodox. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 05:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
The ISO is a lot of things, but it isn't pacifist, c'mon, cut the shit, I've been writing on this stuff for a while. There are plenty of books about why Trotskyism is not Pacifist.--Andrewstewart1 (talk) 05:43, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
But HITCHENS was. You know, the guy whom this article is about. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 06:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

No he was not, watch any of the C-Span interviews and he is definitely pro-Falklands War, pro-VC, and later on pro-Bush war policy. Where did you get the idea he ever was a pacifist, he hated pacifists with a certain antagonism, he called them weak and stupid, called Gandhi-ism fanaticism, and said turning the other cheek and loving your enemies was evil.--Andrewstewart1 (talk) 21:11, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

[edit] BoN's edits 21/11/13

I've reverted because

  • I'm sure he was more than aware that a Catholic Nun would use charitable donations in a Catholic way. His point was that those who donated were under the impression that their money was going to help the poor or India in concrete ways, not to promote preaching against birth control to those who need it most.
  • You'll need a cite for that Orwell thing

Innocent Bystander (talk) 16:29, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

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