Talk:Gamergate/Archive4

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This is an archive page, last updated 26 April 2015. Please do not make edits to this page.
Archives for this talk page: <1>, <2>, <3>, (new)(back)

Contents

[edit] Outing Wu as trans--removing link. SPOILER -- Who gives a hoot about somebody else's gender identity?

I understand the need to document claims. I also understand that not linking to stuff that is easily available to anyone everywhere is a futile gesture. But I also believe in principle, and, on principle, linking to a garbage case that someone tries to make about a private individual's gender identity is wrong. Ms. Wu said on Redditt she doesn't want to address the case, so let's not address the case. If people want to google it, fine. But linking to that kind of garbage just feels very, very wrong to me. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 02:24, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. I thought the DoNotLink URL would be sufficient. Also, it's Mrs. Wu.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I sincerely appreciate it. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 04:06, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Probably better to label it an nb footnote or whatever instead.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I put some clumsy text in place of the ref that was there. Change it as you see fit. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 04:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
We should really steal the reference templates from Wikipedia for alternate reference types.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Drat, we can't use lower-alpha or upper-roman or whatever.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Let's also note for the record that the person in question is NOT TRANS. Hipocrite (talk) 20:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

No, let's not note it. That makes it a "point" that "matters", even for the "record" which just invites Chrimony or a Chrimony clone to come here and contest it on specious "evdience" "for the record". It matters at all if Wu has done anything to involve trans concerns to the situation, otherwise it's fairly typical right making shit up and pretending it matters(see: Obama birthplace). Ikanreed (talk) 20:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh, not on the article. We don't go around saying "THIS PERSON ISN'T TRANS" on articles about other random people. I'm noting it for the record here, since, you know, she's not trans, and hasn't done anything related to trans except to respond to people saying "you're trans," by saying "there is no way to appropriately respond to that assertion." Hipocrite (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I didn't mean the article. Even here on the talk page, it invites people to contest it as if it matters. Ikanreed (talk) 20:37, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
What's the point of making a statement? I don't know if she is or isn't, I have minimal curiosity about it, and insisting that she isn't really doesn't constitute supporting her whether it's true or not. Official word on the matter is "nunya" and I'm content to let it rest there. Calieber (talk) 20:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Imo the whole section is unnecessary beyond a mention that GG will make baseless and trans-discriminatory statements to detract from the real issue that is going on, kinda like what's happening with this discussion in the first place. The details don't actually matter at all. Trick (talk) 20:43, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] In which the lenght of the article is debated, again

You know, you've just described half the sections in this article. |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg So you see, we have to kill animals, or else they'll die. 20:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I do know, and I've reiterated the point multiple times. But I figure, if it's little by little it may work better than blanketting the idea. Trick (talk) 20:52, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
But there is no real issue going on. Gamergate is just a bunch of sexist and homophobic MRAs who claim they play video games. Most of this page serves to provide evidence of that (and perhaps can be trimmed and reorganized) and to show that they have never once done anything with regards to "ethics in video game journalism" except manage to highlight all of the unethical journalists they've rallied behind.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I doubt talking about TFYC, Hatred , Vivian James (who should probably be their own articles) contribute much to the central idea. |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg Fuck you! And your eyebrows! 22:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
{{sofixit}}. Hipocrite (talk) 22:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
TFYC used Gamergate to make themselves money by saying "Oh yeah Zoe Quinn did these awful things to us". Hatred's dev team is doing the same but going "We're against political messages in video games now here you go you can play as a white dude shooting up people at random". And there is nothing about Vivian James that separates it from Gamergate as a whole as it is the mascot that was created to spite feminism and also create a friend argument Gamergate uses.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:29, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I think we have a {{seealso}} template or a {{main}} template. If we don't, we can create them. If they think those sections are too long, they can distill them down and we can toss up some related article links like wikipedia does at, say [1]. Hipocrite (talk) 22:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Also Hatred's coverage is all of a paragraph and that's all it ever has been.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Liiiaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr
it was two paragraphs |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg Antonio stella bottom tile 03:46, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Well it's one paragraph now.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:11, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Ok Ryulong, I'm going to say this again: People who are not involved and just want to learn about the controversy itself do not give a flying fuck about any of your little details. At all. Stick to what and when. Who, why, and how are minor things for separate pages, and where does not matter at all. (I am currently neither involved enough or savvy enough to take my own hand at it, but if it comes to it I may just try anyways.) Trick (talk) 13:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

the thing is that there are from time to time various major events that have taken place that show how fucked up it all is to the whole. Perhaps it's not important to say how Gamergate has treated Wu with regards to her game release (even if it shows they have no interest in ethics in video game journalism) or give detail on the opinions and whatnot surrounding the law and order episode or provide details on who was swatted and when or focus on hatred even if it is tangentially related. This can be addressed by cutting those sections down or out, but not making new pages to host that information separate from a bare bones explanation of Gamergate. someone with knowledge of the whole other than myself just needs to give this a read through and figure out what isn't necessary to describe in detail as it stands now and reorganize what's still in there to make it more digestible.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 14:28, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
"Time to time" should not equal 15 sections on a rise-to-fame and 17 sections on a fall, though. That's what this whole discussion has been about. The length from unnecessary details makes the whole thing incredibly muddled and simply unpleasant to read. Going back to my previous suggestion, if you had a sandbox or essay detailing the whole thing it could be used as a reference for everyone trying to fix this to make it more readable to both newcomers and those actually involved. Trick (talk) 14:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Well I got overzealous in documenting all the shit I saw got plenty of air time on /r/GamerGhazi. That's why someone can go in and see what isn't necessary for understanding the whole or what is an example of the hypocrisy that pervades Gamergate and its "goal" of "ethics in video game journalism". That's why I listed three topics in my previous post that fall under the umbrella of "I don't think we need this anymore".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:42, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, this is just far too much info about drama and people. Look at how RW covers similarly idiotic movements: Tea_Party, Bitcoin, John_Birch_Society. Take the fluff to a blog or dedicated wiki. --Frybread (talk) 18:45, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
For at least a few of our editors, nut just Ryulong, this one hits way closer to home, thus the need for them to document it in a micro-fashion.... Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 18:48, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Right, I get that, but you could say the same about Conservapedia - a page you can actually read in one sitting. My recommendation would be to cut down each section (escalation, decline, etc) to one or two paragraphs. We don't need to know the exact day Mike Cernovich joined, we don't need to know anything about David Pakman, or the exact details of every single DDoS campaign. GamerGate harasses people, here are a few of their worst examples, here's the citation to a blog/timeline if you want to see more. --Frybread (talk) 21:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
It's what many of us have been saying over the past month. Good luck making it happen. ΨΣΔξΣΓΩΙÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 22:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Has anyone finished any of their rewrites? Because, at the moment, that's our best hope. I'm inclined to accept any of them. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 22:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate organization idea

First, a brief history of Gamergate, max 40kb (Jesus-size, or 1/4 current 160 kb). Covers misogynistic background, Zoe Post, major public events helping it gain popularity, doxxing & harassment, and surge of "anti-GG" journalists & pundits & GG's decline. One section each.

Second, rebuttals, 9-11 conspiracy theories-style. Examples: "Zoe Quinn DDoS'd The Fine Young Capitalists". Rebuttal: Nope, their website was just shit. "Gamergate has never doxxed anyone!" Rebuttal: Here's 49 million counterexamples.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

This lets us (1) keep most of the detail, since Ryulong structured the page towards rebutting GG; (2) have a reasonably concise history, for teh n00bz; (3) increases page's usefulness for stuff David gets good emails about, like "remember when GG defended child porn", etc. FrizzyCatPotato (talk/stalk) 00:20, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Will "[insert figure head] uses Gamergate to be personal army" work as a section? And how will the most recent turn of events, calling someone a racist and sexist for performing a literal sock puppet show, fit in to this new structure?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 01:22, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
1: Yeah, why not? 2: Either (if major) a spot in decline or (if minor) a rebuttal to "X is racist". 32℉uzzy, 0℃atPotato (talk/stalk) 01:48, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
The issue is is that Gamergate is claiming someone is racist and sexist because he made a joke about their friend argument shield. See Gamergate#Gamergate becomes a punchline.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
They did. Why is this relevant to this proposed organization? Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 05:47, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Asking what umbrella topic it could fall under in this reorganization attempt.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:35, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
If it's rebutting claims, then it'd be a rebuttal; if it's part of the story of the downfall of GG, it'd go in the downfall of GG. oʇɐʇoԀʇɐϽʎzznℲ (talk/stalk) 17:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Is this a version you can support, Ryulong? Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 18:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah this seems all right.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Which sections are most critical to documenting Gamergate's history? Which should be condensed to a rebuttal? (To Ryulong and to everyone.) ʇυzzγɔɒтqoтɒтo (talk/stalk) 22:47, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
*cough* oʇɐʇoԀʇɐϽʎzznℲ (talk/stalk) 21:01, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh, it's nice that I finally get to edit here. I'm the one who sent in both those emails. First, lemme say one thing that is gonna be insulting towards the people who keep trying to chop this up because they don't know much about it: You should be glad you don't know much about it but you should know something about the articles you're gonna edit. Your ignorance is not a match for our knowledge. Brianna Wu and Ryulong have both been targeted by GG. I'm cited twice in this article.
That said, I'm more than willing to help you make an article geared towards people lucky enough not to know much about this. My take on the brief history, which may be slightly out of order: Sexist bg and the Zoepost, #burgerandfries and the Quinnspiracy and them getting kicked off of default subreddits and 4chan, #notyourshield and #gamergate(and their exodus to KiA and /gg/), "Gamers are dead" and email campaigns, repeated harassment of LW covered by mainstream press leading up to the Colbert Report.
I realize that still may be a lot but they're all pretty essential to understanding this clusterfuck and debunking the gish gallop. As far as organizing the rebuttals, my personal suggestion would be "GG and misogyny" "GG and anti-SJ" "GG is right wing" "Ethics in game journalism is a joke" "GG and conspiracy theories" etc. Cykosys (talk) 11:26, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your input.
The problem is that, if our dedicated (albeit perhaps not-completely-knowledgable-about-Gamergate) editors can't understand the article, then it's not useful for newcomers, which is a big reason why this article exists.
Should any of GG's decline be mentioned in the history, or not (as your list currently implies)? Should porn-defense be a rebuttal or part of history? Where should TFYC and VJ go? Milo? Brianna Wu? "Further media triumph"? SVU? (Asking, because I probably fall into the not-knowledgable category.) Basically, if we went section-by-section (and paragraph-by-paragraph, when sections contain multiple ideas) what should go where? FüzzyCätPötätö (talk/stalk) 01:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
GG's decline should be part of a short summary at the very end.
That's why I'm willing to give my opinion on what is truly important in a concise summary. A newcomer should be able to come away from this with a basic understanding of GG talking points e.g. "If our concerns had just been addressed" and why they're wrong. The problem is that there are a lot of talking points. Each of the categories I mentioned doesn't need to be longer than a paragraph or so.
Porn defense, TFYC, VJ and SVU should all be part of rebuttals. They're honestly quite tangential (though the porn defense forced most moderates out and could be an ending point of the short history). Brianna should go into the harassment leading up to the Colbert Report.
For the summary, something like this might be a good start:
Gamergate has failed on almost every one of its nebulous objectives. It has failed to sway developers(short note that only a couple of prominent game devs (kern and wardell) support GG), gaming press (citations of alexa rankings of their hated press, 30% profits at kotaku, maybe cites on the escapist and techraptor and their small share of the market), and consumers (There's an analysis that GG was, at most, 10,000 core accounts RTing each other, a number I agree with based on active users on GG and KiA) They have become an industry joke(video of Tim Schafer at GDC), significantly raised awareness of harassment in the gaming community (CON, Online abuse prevention initiative, twitter harassment policy changes), and their targets have returned home safely. (Wu and Quinn tweets returning home) Intel has reinstated their ads on Gamasutra and pledged 300 million on their diversity initiative Cykosys (talk) 21:07, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Draft

Draft: User:FuzzyCatPotato/GG. Currently 49.5 kb. What needs adding? What needs removal? (Anything not added to history will be added to rebuttals.) Feel free to edit. FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 18:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
*cough* αδελφός ΓυζζγςατΡοτατο (talk/stalk) 02:44, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, IRL stuff. Will try to edit it up by the weekend. Cykosys (talk) 07:36, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
It's a huge, huge improvement over what we have now. Still too long, too many details, but a huge improvement. Implement ASAP --Frybread (talk) 19:17, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Should I move this article somewhere else, to be liquified into rebuttals and replace this article with the copypasta I made? Or nah? Probably need more than 1 person's support, given the controversy last time I tried smth like this. Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 20:14, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] So can this draft go in?

User:FuzzyCatPotato/GG. 52.6 kb.
Can we (1) change the current article to this article, which (according to Cykosys and Ryulong) has the necessary core details of Gamergate's history, and (2) move the current article the Rebuttals to Gamergate (or similar) and use all of Ryulong's work to build rebuttals to GG's worldview? Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 18:33, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

I thought that the "rebuttals" were going to be a part of the new restructured page.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:22, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Since they'll get long, I was going to put 'em on another page, like Rebuttals to Gamergate or something. Herr FuzzyKatzenPotato (talk/stalk) 03:26, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
you've done a great job, and I look forward to an article I can read in one sitting.--Frybread (talk) 06:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

The draft seems to fall off the end a bit. Is this approximately the finished thing?

I have noted the restructure on /r/GamerGhazi, suggesting people comment here, there or just hack the draft - David Gerard (talk) 13:13, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

So what's the structure? Please extend the list below as appropriate - David Gerard (talk) 14:37, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Nope, the draft still needs work. The draft probably needs more on GG's downfall. Please add what needs adding and remove unneeded detail. Should a summary be provided at the end?
So far, that's the structure. Main article has brief, overarching history; Timeline has detailed, singular-event-oriented history; Rebuttals attacks GG's version of history. Any more needed? Herr FuzzyKatzenPotato (talk/stalk) 15:29, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Probably. When measuring length, just cut'n'paste the body text (not the refs) to LibreOffice or something. Doesn't matter if the refs are twice as long as the article body - David Gerard (talk) 19:03, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Using the "intro-down, no refs" method and http://www.lettercount.com/, this article is 94.0k characters and the proposed main article is 28.4k, or 69.7% less. αδελφός ΓυζζγςατΡοτατο (talk/stalk) 23:10, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Your draft cuts out any mention of Anita Sarkeesian being drawn into what was Gamergate but references that harassment towards her was happening alongside Quinn. Also there's no mention of the hacking of Quinn's personal files and Phil Fish's concurrent departure from gaming.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:26, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Please, add what's necessary in. FU22YC47P07470 (talk/stalk) 14:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
I have no time to think deeply on it myself (say, would you like to hear about UK Home Office bureaucracy around marriages? No wait, LITERALLY NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT THAT) but there's some excellent suggestions in the Reddit thread - David Gerard (talk) 17:00, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
I added the proposed rebuttal, but the other ones seemed to need further research, which I'd rather leave to Ryulong or others deeper into GG. FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 21:20, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Sooo... What else needs to be added to User:FuzzyCatPotato/GG and User:FuzzyCatPotato/Rebuttals of Gamergate to make them good enough to put in as the article? FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 23:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Cough Cømrade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 23:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
dammit, all this making me think. Ryulong, how are these to your eyes? - David Gerard (talk) 18:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

[edit] ED

As what my good frenemy Fuzzy says, I am a EDiot. This understandably gives me a unique but mostly neutral viewpoint in the form of "You 're all idiots" . As thus, I nominate we cover the respective key players and go from there.--Madman (talk) 22:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)The Madman
Ah, one of the famous doxxing crew. What's your history? Go back as far as LJDrama? --Castaigne (talk) 22:37, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
What? FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 18:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
ED hosts the dox of a lot of people, including several of GG's targets and critics. Gators move it there so they can claim plausible deniability. Cykosys (talk) 19:33, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I know ED. I don't know what Madman's trying to say. FU22YC47P07470 (talk/stalk) 20:02, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Oh, wow, you guys!

So, it turns out that everything was hoaxes, as you can see GG rallying about here (Caution: Link goes into their territory). Gee, now don't we feel silly? They really should ram this down our throats, as that GGer so helpfully points out!
Now, what's really weird is what happens if you were to actually follow that link in the tweet. Reading comprehension level: Zero. Narky SawtoothNarky.png (Floof!~) 10:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

So, the Party Van is finally involved. 'bout damn time these idiots got what's coming to them. Rumble rumble grumble grumble...--Madman (talk) 17:01, 14 March 2015 (UTC)The Madman
If you ask me, this particular incident is worth two, maybe three sentences. What Clark says amounts to "harassment is bad!" and some numbers she was probably given in private. If she wasn't a politician, I'd say it wasn't important at all. And as for Daddy Warpig, well, he's being a fucking idiot here, I think we can all agree on that. --Norman (talk) 11:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] On GamerGate

moved from RationalWiki:Saloon bar -- 15:03, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for any mistakes/shitty grammar; tablets aren't very good for wikis.) I have decided to share my opinion on this whole gamer gate nonsense, so I can better understand your believes/opinions on this whole movement about "ethics in video game journalism". I am mostly centrist leaning towards antiGG due to the fact that most of the people inside are campaigning against feminism and "SJWs" instead of focusing on VIDEO GAME FUCKING JOURNALISM. I am all for ethics in video game journalism, and have been long ago this #GG thing came up. If they are about "ethics in video game journalism" they should be focusing on things like IGN and other reviewer's highly inflated scores, or shadow of mordor review copys only being handed out to large review conglomerates like IGN. They shouldn't be focusing on feminism and "SJWs". There should be an actual group like "People for ethics in gaming journalism" that would only focus on gaming journalism, and have nothing to do with feminism 'Legionwhat do you want from me 03:51, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

This might be better at Talk:Gamergate as it's best to keep these things in one place.--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 06:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
On the subject of IGN, note how they *do* attack Kotaku. Kotaku are the ones who pointed out the corruption in Gamespot, which was a major point in the IGN/Gamespot focus that used to exist. They're more concerned with the political views of gaming journalism than the ethics. (Also, yes, this should be moved to the relevant talk page. I don't know how to move it. Is it just cut/paste and leave a message behind? Is there a template?) Narky SawtoothNarky.png (Floof!~) 12:35, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Don't you guys have an off-topic discussion page to keep this shit and not turn these talk pages into general forums?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:34, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, they sort of are general forums too, not the laserlike "article only" focus of Wikipedia - David Gerard (talk) 21:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

"Despite the fact that none of Gamergate's claims hold up under scrutiny". Sry guis, reddit chat mod logs were leaked. There was an explicit conspiracy to silence any discussion of Zoe Quinn early on. Looks like thats one claim that hold up. Not that you guys even care, you already made up your mind that its all white males hating women anyway. — Unsigned, by: ‎71.57.184.210 / talk / contribs

Google Translate is telling me this says "We broke sub rules and someone leaked modmails freeze peach forever".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:30, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Extreme wingnuttery

Can we add the "Extreme wingnuttery" category to Gamergate? It's identified in the first sentence as a conservative and reactionary movement, almost all of its supporters are associated with the far right (Breitbart, Conservapedia, Stormfront, etc.), and it's adjacent to the MRA movement, which is already included in the category, so I think it belongs. I'd do it myself but I don't have an account (yet.) Thanks guys. 129.100.179.54 (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I tacitly disagree with that assessment. While the association with breitbart instantly marks it as pretty damn right wing, it's far more anti-left to me than pro-right. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Call me a fence sitter. On the one hand your statement makes sense, but on the other hand somebody might misconstrued that as the victims being the wingnuts here. Zero (talk - contributions) 20:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I would wait to see where it ends up at a year's annivesary before applying that particular category. When your most prominent GGers left standing on the field are Roosh, Vox Day, Mike "BASED JUICEBRO" Cernovich, and a smattering of other whackaloons, you are rapidly approaching the Extreme Wingnuttery horizon. But we're not quite there yet. --Castaigne (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I dunno, I think the wingnuts in question are quite extreme enough to add the cat to the page - David Gerard (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
How can a movement that is defined solely by its anti-womanism be anything else but extreme wingnuttery? Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 15:44, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Because people can be misognyistic fucks while also being leftists, centrists, or "apolitical". It's got some deep ties to the right wing, but that doesn't necessarily result in a right-wing ideology. I called my disagreement tacit, because well, I don't think GamerGate would exist if the American right wing didn't exist the way it does. But when you look at the movement itself, you pretty much only get the anti-feminism and misogyny. They're sure as hell not left-wing. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 15:54, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I get your point, and, you're right: I in no way want to minimize the misogyny of the left by making it seem as if the right holds some sort of monopoly on patriarchy. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 15:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
It's an ill-defined category containing hundreds of items which are "extreme" in different ways or not at all. Add it to this page or don't; it makes no difference. WéáśéĺóíďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 17:48, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
That's a good point. I'm looking at this as ambiguous from one side, but the whole question is one filled with shades of gray. If someone re-adds the category, I won't object. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:51, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Maybe this or this will get you to change your opinion.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 00:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Bias Against Men

[edit] Could we add this to the article?

[edit] Angry Joe

[edit] On harrassment of both sides

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