Talk:Global warming
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[edit] Global Warming time frame identification
While the evidence for global warming since the industrial revolution 200 years ago is strong (also correlated with massive greenhouse gas increases; eg CO2: 260->370ppm, methane: 700->1700ppb, and nitrous oxide: 260->320ppb), the concept of 'global warming' is only meaningful when discussed within the current interglacial ("anthropocene"). Interglacials being relatively warm periods (~+6 deg C) occurring at regular intervals (every ~100,000 years) since the beginning of the current major ice age (~5 million years ago), and correlated with Milankovitch cycles (orbital anomalies due to gravitational effects of the major planets). Modeling suggests that the current interglacial (~11,000 years old) may last for up to ~60,000 years (Berger and Loutre, 2002 - Science), which is much longer than the previous two interglacials (~11,000 years).
Any social response to climate change must obviously be a risk assessment of not only that of warming (2+ deg C), but that of prospective cooling (glacial periods ~-6 deg C). Furthermore, the contextualisation of global warming reveals climate science as an objective discipline that seeks to successfully model climate change over all time scales, as opposed to appearing blindingly specialised. Finally, irrespective of climate change (anthropogenic or otherwise), there is only a limited amount of fossil fuels available on earth, and such we need to resort to economically viable alternatives. Assuming developing nations place the health of their citizens above the idealistic adoption of secondary (solar) and 1000 year old tertiary (wind/sea/geothermal) energy sources, this would implicate the need for nuclear fusion research (eg ITER/NIF), and a possible interim use of fission technologies.
Richardbrucebaxter (talk) 00:01, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
[edit] 50+ years ago
Scream!! (talk) 22:27, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
[edit] We don't need to protect the planet from Global warming because God didn't make the earth to last forever.
I know an evangelical Christian who just told me that over the telephone, she drives a very large caravan type car that eats petrol (gas in the USA). I believe she belongs to one of the Campbellite groups but am not sure as she denies it. I suggested she should look at the Wikipedia article, List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events. I didn't suggest List of predictions of the end of the world because she would have an excuse to disregard what's in an atheist website. I fear she won't look at any such list since she thinks it virtuous to study exclusively or mainly what her group teaches. I would like to add to the Global warming article that some Christians think they needn't do anything because the world won't last long. Can anyone give me a reference so I can add it? Proxima Centauri (talk) 12:51, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
- In point of fact we don't need to protect the planet from global warming. The planet has survived ice ages, meteor impacts and extreme volcanic events which have had a much greater effect on the planet than humanity could ever hope to have.
- The thing that is at risk from global warming is the human race and human civilisation. A few thousand years (at most) after we are gone the planet will get back to business as usual. --Coffee (talk) 13:01, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
- http://prq.sagepub.com/content/66/2/267.full.pdf There you go. I'd prefer someone who is acquainted with political science to look over it first, before using this, though. Nullahnung (talk) 13:08, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
- Also this, http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11558-013-9178-9 for anyone who has access. That said, we shouldn't reference pay-walled stuff and I don't think it would be legal for me to upload the pdf for public access, so I'm not sure how we'd cite this. Nullahnung (talk) 13:24, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
I think she might be referring to 2 Peter 3:10,12 & 13. Also I Thess. 4:15,16,17. And a few places it tells of a third heaven & earth which they think will be in heaven. But some say it will be here on earth. There are also verses that say God will destroy those who destroy the earth (Rev.11:18) & the earth shall abide/last forever (Eccl. 1:4). Klop789 (talk) 05:19, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
[edit] Climate change redirect?
Just wondering, but you think climate change should get its own article rather than being a redirect to here? Global warming does fall under "climate change", but climate change is more broad, encompassing, well, climate change. Or, is there not enough hoopla surrounding climate change compared to global warming, so climate change can be safely redirected to here? LEFTYGREENMARIO 20:23, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- I was under the impression that climate change is just a rebranding of global warming, because laypeople tend to not grasp the concept of global warming that well. As in, they're different terms for the same thing, hence the redirect.
Radioactive Misanthrope 20:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Err no. Climate change describes a changing climate. In our current situation that change would be global warming as opposed to global cooling, which is why those terms are used so interchangeably. The nature of this interchangeability makes it reasonable to just have a redirect, though if there be some other pseudoscience related to climate change but not related to global warming, then it would be better to have a separate article, yes. Nullahnung (talk) 20:55, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe we can at least do something to differentiate climate change and global warming? I don't want people to confuse (or be further confused because of the redirect) "climate change" and "global warming" as the same thing. Oh, yeah, so, referring to my second part, about the "hoopla surrounding climate change", the only (possible) crank-talk about climate change that I know is that "scientists are using the term 'climate change' to downplay 'global warming'." LEFTYGREENMARIO 21:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Make sure to find a reference for that crank-talk first if you want to write something about that! Nullahnung (talk) 21:11, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know, it was shown as an argument (kind of) against global warming in Skeptical Science, so the argument probably has been made or it's anticipated to be made. But, I don't explore the depths of global warming contrarian websites, so back me up here if you can. According to Skeptical Science, Frank Luntz has been "credited" by saying the following:
- Make sure to find a reference for that crank-talk first if you want to write something about that! Nullahnung (talk) 21:11, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe we can at least do something to differentiate climate change and global warming? I don't want people to confuse (or be further confused because of the redirect) "climate change" and "global warming" as the same thing. Oh, yeah, so, referring to my second part, about the "hoopla surrounding climate change", the only (possible) crank-talk about climate change that I know is that "scientists are using the term 'climate change' to downplay 'global warming'." LEFTYGREENMARIO 21:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Err no. Climate change describes a changing climate. In our current situation that change would be global warming as opposed to global cooling, which is why those terms are used so interchangeably. The nature of this interchangeability makes it reasonable to just have a redirect, though if there be some other pseudoscience related to climate change but not related to global warming, then it would be better to have a separate article, yes. Nullahnung (talk) 20:55, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- "It’s time for us to start talking about 'climate change' instead of global warming and 'conservation' instead of preservation. 'Climate change' is less frightening than 'global warming'. As one focus group participant noted, climate change 'sounds like you’re going from Pittsburgh to Fort Lauderdale.' While global warming has catastrophic connotations attached to it, climate change suggests a more controllable and less emotional challenge."
- And the article on him already says a bit of how he does that.
- LEFTYGREENMARIO 21:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, while the average global temperature is to increase, the temperature changes are not uniform and some places will decrease in temperature on average. Further, climate is more than just temperature. (And a re-branding issue, too.)
talk 22:23, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- "Average global temperature" is a key term. I agree with you, however, so I think global warming might be a tad misleading, especially with climate change being a redirect. LEFTYGREENMARIO 23:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Well, global warming is global warming, I don't see it as misleading. Obviously, warming implies all manner of things happening in local climates, like more erratic and stronger hurricanes in tropical waters, and that is part of climate change. Still, the terms are used pretty much interchangeably. Nullahnung (talk) 00:14, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- "Average global temperature" is a key term. I agree with you, however, so I think global warming might be a tad misleading, especially with climate change being a redirect. LEFTYGREENMARIO 23:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, while the average global temperature is to increase, the temperature changes are not uniform and some places will decrease in temperature on average. Further, climate is more than just temperature. (And a re-branding issue, too.)
- LEFTYGREENMARIO 21:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think either will do. "Climate change" originated as a euphemism for "global warming", but I think it's actually a better term in many ways. I explained it to my aged parents as "they say 'climate change' instead of 'global warming' because it doesn't just heat up a bit, everything also goes nuts" when we were talking about the weird weather in the UK at that time - David Gerard (talk) 08:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
[edit] User:Cherlin's edits
Have been undone. But they actually read nicely to my scientific-minded brain (details, observed/not observed). The problem is that I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be able to crosscheck them, especially the more extreme ones (+200 mm in the last century, wut? Maldives would already be underwater at this rate, if I'm not mistaken), so I understand the precautionnary undo in case of parodist. Can anyone more knowledgeable help (or User:Cherlin himself give us refs) ?--dx (talk) 09:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- The loudest alarm bell was the Bell bit. :) See wp:Svante Arrhenius. In all cases, a lot of the rest was clumsy.--ZooGuard (talk) 10:24, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- Most of it checks out. Bell did "predict" it in one sense, but not in a way that's really suitable for a lede. Thermal expansion definitely is the primary cause of sea level increases. Ocean acidification is also a bigger factor than most expect, not least because it kills off corals but because it actually affects the salinity gradients that drive thermal currents in the oceans.
Don't click here 10:27, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- So I'd recommend keeping that edit with the usual bit of cleaning.
Don't click here 10:28, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- So I'd recommend keeping that edit with the usual bit of cleaning.
- Most of it checks out. Bell did "predict" it in one sense, but not in a way that's really suitable for a lede. Thermal expansion definitely is the primary cause of sea level increases. Ocean acidification is also a bigger factor than most expect, not least because it kills off corals but because it actually affects the salinity gradients that drive thermal currents in the oceans.
[edit] About the third sub-heading
Surely it would be better to look at the "carbon dioxide equivalent", seeing as, for instance, nitrous oxide is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 despite the fact that it has no carbon in it at all? TheSocktor (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
[edit] Climate Change and Ozone
I sometimes hear people talking about the ozone hole crisis and global warming as if they were one and the same thing, especially by deniers and people who don't really care. For example, look at the google results for something like "global warming ozone". Should it be clarified that, although ozone is a (rather weak, compared to CO2) greenhouse gas (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#Ozone_as_a_greenhouse_gas), the two phenomena are separate problems? --87.145.140.180 (talk) 16:35, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds good. Though the ozone-eating CFCs are a greenhouse gas too, which may be where the confusion comes from. Hit "edit" and go for it! - David Gerard (talk) 18:21, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well, I tried to^^ --217.81.196.95 (talk) 17:03, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, and it might be beneficial to refer to this help guide when editing. -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 17:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I should have... removed the wiki links (except for one, which serves as a summary for the more exhaustive original source). The personal experience part was removed before. I think that were the flaws you weren't content with, right? --217.81.207.18 (talk) 17:16, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Data fraud
An investigation of the raw data recording temperature, has revealed that once again these academics are manipulating the data to keep billions of dollars flowing into their hands. No matter how many times they are caught, government will not change course because they want to believe in global warming to justify higher taxes. Al Gore even went the Davos to pitch once again for higher taxes to stop global warming he declares is the number one crisis in the world. He too, never heard of cycles. This crowd claims this is “climate change” as if there are no cycles whatsoever. How did the earth warm up after Ice Ages? This is really too much. — Unsigned, by: 31.21.142.18 / talk / contribs 22:54, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
- How did the Earth warm up after ice ages? Very slowly. Over thousands of years, not 200 years. Frederick♠♣♥♦ 05:39, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- First news of an ice age 200 year ago. Is geological history being rewritten too? — Unsigned, by: 31.187.191.127 / talk 19:02, 9 February 2015
- Eh, you do realise that the 200 years is contrasting the slow warming after ice ages with the current climate change, right? Hence, the 200-year warming trend in the comment does not refer to the time elapsed since the last ice age - that's kinda the entire point of the post. ScepticWombat (talk) 19:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- The temperature records say something different (see image). The Earth temperature oscillates. Except for the medievel warm period, all intermediate rises in temperature happened faster than it's happening today. — Unsigned, by: 31.187.191.127 / talk / contribs
- This nails it.145.64.134.241 (talk) 11:22, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- Geological history is not being rewritten. See the Maunder Minimum,[wp] sometimes called the "little ice age." 68.187.218.86 (talk) 20:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- The temperature records say something different (see image). The Earth temperature oscillates. Except for the medievel warm period, all intermediate rises in temperature happened faster than it's happening today. — Unsigned, by: 31.187.191.127 / talk / contribs
- Eh, you do realise that the 200 years is contrasting the slow warming after ice ages with the current climate change, right? Hence, the 200-year warming trend in the comment does not refer to the time elapsed since the last ice age - that's kinda the entire point of the post. ScepticWombat (talk) 19:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- First news of an ice age 200 year ago. Is geological history being rewritten too? — Unsigned, by: 31.187.191.127 / talk 19:02, 9 February 2015