Talk:Holocaust

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Why do you enforce that the Holocaust happened? You can'tr be sure. Stop offending Holocaust Deniers. Ron Paul 10:25, 21 November 2007 (EST)

I believe I speak for the group conciousness when I say that it's ratwiki's raison d'être to offend idiots. --JeēvsYour signature uses all my CPU time... 10:31, 21 November 2007 (EST)

To paraphrase AS - learn grammar & we'll answer you. In the meantime: "Don't be silly".Susan... miaow ... 10:32, 21 November 2007 (EST)

How do we know the Second World War happened ?

Streona 05:50, 3 January 2008 (EST) (file under "irony" please)

Contents

[edit] Header changed to keep 'Recent Changes' clean!

Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!

Even The Diary of Anne Frank is a hoax. Portions of the diary were written with a ball point pen. These pens were not in use at the time Anne Frank lived.

Want more proof? User:RosaParksFan 11:02, 30 November 2007 (EST)

Kid, you're dumb-αmεσ (mission accomplished!) 11:08, 30 November 2007 (EST)
Funny how the deniers never show calculations for the following, which I see parroted on several propaganda-websites: "it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!" When they do show calculations, it's usually from the fake "engineer" Leuchter who was CONVICTED for fraud for claiming to be an engineer despite having ZERO credentials nor even a Bachelor's degree...so if you hear deniers claim no Zyklon B was found in the concrete walls of the gas chambers, respond that that was the work of the FRAUD Leuchter & real engineers found that traces of Zyklon B only last a few MINUTES because concrete is so impermeable, so the DECADES later that Leuchter tested for it, we SHOULD expect not to detect any trace even w/the world's most sensitive equipment.
Or "most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews": SOURCES? PROOF?
72.48.252.105 (talk) 22:39, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Those comments were posted over six years ago. I doubt the OP is going to respond to your capslock requests for sources & proof. ΨΣΔξΣΓΩΙÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 22:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Etymology Latin - cremare, to burn to ashes

Transitive verb

to cremate

to burn something to ashes

to incinerate a dead body (as an alternative to burial)

Noun - A place where dead bodies are cremated -- מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי שְׁלֹום!

Your replys are nonsense. Give me a reply with some MEAT. WMStEooPaaFfWC 23:55, 1 December 2007 (EST)

Hmmm. Not very bright. Hardly surprising. DickTurpis 00:50, 2 December 2007 (EST)

68 years ? 6 million would be about 88,325 a year. The most destructive death camp was Treblinka which murdered 750,000 in its operations but was closed after a year due to a revolt by its inmates. The extermination camps were Auschwittz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Sobibor, Chelmno, Bergen-Belsen and Dachau. Even if we assume an average of 500,000 each this would make up another 3 million plus the concentration camps like Gross Rosen and Ravensbruck, and the ghettoes such as Warsaw and Riga plus Einstatzgruppen. The capacity existed to kill at least 6 million over the period of WW2 alone. There are mass graves in places such as Baba-Yar, but to say that there would be bodies everywhere is about as logical as saying the war did not happen because we cannot find 25 million bodies scattered over Europe.

It is also well known fact that holocaust denial writings are generally largely executed in thick green felt pen magic-marker pens.

Streona 16:53, 3 January 2008 (EST)

The Holocaust didn't happen. It was a hoax. AAAAAHHHHH KSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 16:56, 3 January 2008 (EST)

And you didn't just get blocked. That's just a hoax. assume a=a 17:03, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Sometimes they use big red marker pens too...

Streona 18:14, 3 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] reference

Our one cite (for the death toll) goes to WP - surely the place we got that from on their page also has a cite to a primary source, that we could cite directly? (perhaps saying where we found the cite?) humanUser talk:Human 14:56, 30 November 2007 (EST)

Can't we just leech off WP's foot notes? No reason for doing the same work twice. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 14:59, 30 November 2007 (EST)
That's what I mean - click the link, find their footnote, and steal it. (maybe after checking it). It would just look more authoritative, I think. humanUser talk:Human 15:30, 30 November 2007 (EST)
Started doing that, to some degree. Will do more when I can. Researcher 15:55, 30 November 2007 (EST)

[edit] Auschwitz

Could someone who knows more about this than me help make a distinction between the two Auschwitz's? I don't know much, except that the one we mostly think of was a concentration/work camp, and the other one was an actual death camp. I bring this up because many people like to say that most of those who died at Auschwitz died of malnutrition or some such, allowing the confusion between the two camps to confuse those who are arguing with them. Researcher 05:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rabbi Moshe Shonfeld's research found that many leading Zionists supported the Holocaust

According to the research of Rabbi Moshe Shonfeld, many leading Zionists supported the Holocaust, both directly and indirectly, in order to justify the establishment of the "State of Israel". Rabbi Moshe Shonfeld, The Holocaust Victims Accuse: Documents and Testimony on Jewish War Criminals, part 1, Bnei Yeshivos, New York, 1977. I have provided a link to his work, you can read it for yourself. Should I be surprised that you are trying to silence him? TruePhilosemite (talk) 10:32, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

So, no one has come forth to debunk Rabbi Shonfeld's research? Could it be that RABBI SHONFELD IS RIGHT? Can the article be updated now to add the findings of his research? TruePhilosemite (talk) 07:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
No-one has really debunked [Dan Brown]'s crap either, should we update his article likewise? Scream!! (talk) 09:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
It's been two days! Patience!--Spud (talk) 11:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Death Toll Statistics

There appears to be a discrepancy between the statistics cited on Wikipedia and the ones cited on this page (which may lead to some confusion among sad pedantic individuals like me who feel a weird OCD drive to double check random numbers once in a while).

The source we have under reference 7 in RW's article says this: "From 1933 to 1944, the Nazis convicted and sent to concentration camps tens of thousands of men on charges of homosexuality. There they were humiliated, tortured, subjected to medical experimentation, and killed. An estimated 5000 to 15,000 homosexuals perished behind barbed-wire fences during the Holocaust. " which suggests a death toll of 5,000 - 15,000 as written.

It says on Wikipedia: "Most of these men served time in regular prisons, and an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 of those sentenced were incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps.[1] It is unclear how many of the 5,000 to 15,000 eventually perished in the camps, but leading scholar Rüdiger Lautmann believes that the death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%."

One of their sources appears to be the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, which says: "Analyses of fragmentary records suggest that between 5,000 and 15,000 homosexual men were imprisoned in concentration camps, where many died from starvation, disease, exhaustion, beatings, and murder."

That 60% number apparently comes from the study linked here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/gaycomp.html

I haven't taken the time to check the study for scientific correctness or anything like that (it's a rather long read), but I get the feeling that the source we have under reference 7 may be the less reliable one as compared to the other sources.

Thoughts? Nullahnung (talk) 07:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I quickly read through that essay by Rüdiger Lautmann. I kinda wish he would just get to the point and not have to justify his investigations against all these fears every time, but such is the mine field nature of the topic. Presently I don't really see any other faults with his data, but I am no expert in social sciences. Still, I would suggest to include his findings in the death toll section and a ref. Nullahnung (talk) 10:50, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Go ahead, seems fair enough at first glance. The Invisible ManI spoke to Him 13:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Nakba

I've removed the reference to Nakba because it's not really germane to this article. It smells of someone trying to wrap a political cause in the flag of Nazi victimhood. There were many, many, political and historical forces at play which led to the tragic situation now faced by the Palestinian people -- to tag it on as one sentence to the end of a paragraph about Auschwitz is intellectually dishonest. TeenageWasteland (talk) 13:38, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. The Irgun and Yishuv attacks against Palestinians were ongoing during the Holocaust. Expuslion was being considered as early as the 1920s. Plus the main waves of fleeing occured within 3 years of the end of th Holocaust. As a compromise i will consider adding it to the previous paragraph. Pass a Method (talk) 14:29, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
1. Lots of things were ongoing during the Holocaust. Doesn't mean they belong in this article. 2. Thank you for undermining your argument for me and making my point: a process that was being considered in the 1920s cannot reasonably be framed as a direct consequence of something that happened in the 1940s. It was, as you so eloquently show, more complicated than the simple cause-and-effect model you are trying to set up in a largely irrelevant article. TeenageWasteland (talk) 14:34, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
3. Update: 3. You're arguing that increased Jewish migration caused the Nakba, as though it made future events historically inevitable. The Nakba was the result of a myriad of decisions taken by actors on both the Israeli and Palestinian/Arab sides. There was nothing inevitable about it. Numbers, the the role of the Holocaust in providing those numbers, were but one of many factors. TeenageWasteland (talk) 16:58, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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