Talk:Iraq War
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[edit] Initial Comments
This article's "benefits" section seems to contain a number of questionable generalizations ("Iraq is only the second real democracy to take root in the Middle-east"), assumptions ("Iraq is no longer a threat to the region", "The Sunni Arabs have rejected al-Qaeda In Iraq and stabilized the giantic Anbar region") and downright headscratchers ("China or North Korea would be insane to even contemplate taking us on now"). Additionally, it seems to be written wholly from a US POV, which is not something I'm sure we want. I'm not saying that we should get rid of the section--there are some valid points here, and this is something the article needs to address--but it seems like this section's due for a fundamental rewrite or a point-by-point refutation, and I'd like some input on how to procceed. The electrocutioner 01:40, 18 January 2009 (EST)
- It is so great to see how forthcoming input on this topic has been from the community. Given that the Iraq War is one of the most important political issues of the modern era--not to mention that it embodies offences against reason as glaring as any woo one could care to name--IT'S NICE TO KNOW THAT THIS IS WHAT MATTERS TO US, AS USERS, AND THAT THE WE FINE INTELLECTUALS HAVEN'T JUST BEEN MAKING JOKES ABOUT ED POOR'S SEXUAL PROCLIVITIES AND DEBATING THE ETHICS OF SOME AUSTRALIAN FOR THE PAST THREE MONTHS, BUT HAVE RATHER COME TO A CONSENSUS ON WHAT I DARESAY MAY BE THE VIETNAM OF OUR TIME. Yeah. That's the word. Nice. The electrocutioner 12:21, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
- What's your point? ħuman
01:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
- My point is that it would have been nice to revamp this (currently contradictory and scattershot) article to conform to some sort of coherent community consensus, but nobody really seems to care—and that it’s a bit ridiculous, given the mission statement of this site, that patching together a decent analysis of one of the most voluminous wellsprings of irrational bullshit in recent memory has been ignored in favor of such priorities as, say, in-depth discussions of Andy’s homeschooling practices.
- What's your point? ħuman
- Then again, I suppose it’s not really my place to say so, given that I’ve been gone for two and a half months, haven’t really done any work on the article since I left that first comment (I didn’t want to unilaterally determine RationalWiki’s position on the Iraq War, but I probably should have tried harder to get input instead of just watching the article’s talk page), and probably won’t be back for very long, given my current schedule. So, I guess my point is also: I'm a hypocrite. The electrocutioner 09:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
- And, I notice, I never actually called for a fundamental rewrite of the whole article, just the benefits section. So, my point is also that I am not particularly observant. The electrocutioner 09:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
- That benefits section is pretty snarky, as I read it. And thanks for clarifying your points :) ħuman
22:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
- That benefits section is pretty snarky, as I read it. And thanks for clarifying your points :) ħuman
- And, I notice, I never actually called for a fundamental rewrite of the whole article, just the benefits section. So, my point is also that I am not particularly observant. The electrocutioner 09:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
It's really difficult to take this page seriously when it was obviously written as a rant by some random dude. "China or North Korea would be insane to even contemplate taking us on now, bitches." This whole wiki is a joke. It would be better if it tried to uncover the truth by scientific research and methodology and not just blindly oppose everything conspiracy theorists may say. In this state, the information found here is borderline worthless. 94.175.36.237 (talk) 22:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- It's not a conspiracy that the same chickenhawks of the Iraq War are cheerleading for military action on
IranChina and NK. The difference is that the consequence won't be becoming an international pariah, but something more ominous. Osaka Sun (talk) 00:00, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
[edit] Category
I question why this is filed under Conservative Deceit. George Bush started it, yes, but it's being propagated by Barrack Obama. I'm pretty sure the deceit is bipartisan here. Jellote (talk) 17:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Obama, while he could have gotten us out by just leaving, was not involved with the deceit. The deceit was entirely propagated under the Bush administration. Hipocrite (talk) 17:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
- Our allies had something to do with the deceit as well. And President Obama got us out of Iraq as swiftly as militarily advisable.--Token Conservative (talk) 18:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
[edit] McCain
When saying a "mission accomplished" McCain was refferring to the capture of Saddam Hussein NOT the Iraq War, at least if they are referring to what he said on ABCs "The Week." In addition, the links are dead, so it is difficult to even actually link back and see what the quotes were about.
[edit] Absolute Monarchy
As I understand, Kuwait is constitutional monarchy. Isn't it? — Unsigned, by: Alliumnsk / talk / contribs
[edit] Needs balance
The explanation given by proponents at the time is nowhere articulated: that the sanctions imposed after 1991 led to the lack of medical treatment, starvation, and death of 1,000,000 Iraqi children (as cited by Sean Penn, Ramsey Clark, and bin Laden in his Declaration of War) and was an effective recruiting tool for suicide hijackers. Therefore, the sanctions had to go, and along with them Saddam Hussein, because he was intent on using oil revenues legally after sanctions were lifted to pursue a WMD. Other criticisms can also be offered. nobsIt all depends what ISIS is. 00:21, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
[edit] This line is a bit iffy...
"By definition, democracy must be chosen by the people, not 'given' to them by lack of consent." Just no. Democracy does not, by definition, have to be chosen by the people. Rather, democracy is the standard that should already be in place in a civilized society. If there were no democracy in a hypothetical country—let's say, oh I don't know, Iraq—how exactly could the people of this state "choose" it? The autocratic leader isn't about to say, "Oh, well, if my cherished people want democracy, I guess I'd better step down and give it to them." That's just not the mentality of the archetypical dictator. That said, the method by which Dubya went about spreading democracy on to the Iraqis was indefensible, but I take no issue with the goal itself. Vaal (talk) 22:44, 15 December 2014 (UTC)