Talk:Israel

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[edit] The history is wrong

The Balfour declaration is integrated in the preamble of the Mandate for Palestine (an international instrument signed and ratified in every country the world over and therefore binding international law):

Whereas recognition has thereby [i.e. by the Treaty of Sèvres] been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, and to the grounds for reconstituting their National Home in that country

and more specifically in Article 6 of the mandate document:

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

The way that the competing promises to the jews and arabs were compared was by abrogating the promise to the arabs on account of the fact that the arabs received like 99.999 percent of the middle east.

Moreover, the 1920s white paper did not restrict immigration. That was the one that Lloyd George called "perfidy" and the Liberal MP James Rothschild stated during the parliamentary debate that "for the majority of the Jews who go to Palestine it is a question of migration or of physical extinction". That's the main reason for the jewish organizations to move on to full nationalist ambitions. Menachem Begin in 1944, in his notice of re-engagement of hostilities (with the european war all but over) with the british:

The White Paper is still in effect. It is enforced, despite the betrayal of the Arabs and the loyalty of the Jews; despite the mass enlisting to the British Army; despite the ceasefire and the quiet in The Land of Israel; despite the massacre of masses of the Jewish people in Europe....
The facts are simple and horrible as one. Over the last four years of the war we have lost millions of the best of our people; millions more are in danger of eradication. And The Land of Israel is closed off and quarantined because the British rule it, realizing the White Paper, and strives for the destruction of our people's last hope.

Indeed, the jews were willing to live entirely under british sovereignty as members of a crown possession so long as the aforementioned terms of the mandate were held up (the document mandates the facilitation of 'close settlement of the land' by the jews). The desire for a state rather than something less-than-a-state only arises after the white paper and a feeling that the British betrayed the Jews by choosing to ally themselves with the 'treacherous arabs' instead of with the Jews who fought patriotically with them in the war.

— Unsigned, by: 174.44.174.192 / talk / contribs 13:51, 1 November 2013‎

[edit] What the hell's a USS Liberty conspiracy endorsement doing on this site?

It's been over four decades, and none of the documents revealed on the events have shown it was anything more than a friendly fire accident. Friendly fire accidents happen all the time to even the most powerful military forces and often in the most embarrassing ways possible. During World War II, Operation Wikinger, a German friendly fire incident killed nearly 600 people, and it wasn't even close to the worst friendly fire incident of that war alone.— Unsigned, by: *Asterisk* / talk / contribs

Friendly fire "accident" my ass. It was a sustained attack. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 02:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Kennedy was killed by Lyndon Johnson! Mossad did 9/11! Ronald Reagan was the Antichrist! He had six letters in his first, middle, and last names!
Fuck you, I'm changing it. For that matter, I'm building a page just for the USS Liberty *Asterisk* (talk) 10:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
  • "Things like this happen all the time."
  • "It is not as bad as several other such incidents."
  • "Think of these other unrelated bits of lunacy!"
None of that has anything to do with the murder of neutral noncombatants, followed by an "oops, our bad. We thought you were Egyptians, or something." The IDF is, in general, too smart and capable for that kind of bullshit to be believable. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 12:37, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
No military on the planet's too smart for anything, they're just barely smart enough to keep shit like this from happening even more often. Including the Israeli's. Besides, for the Liberty conspiracy to be valid, it'd take an extraordinary amount of evidence which contradicts all the serious inquiries showing it was just a friendly fire attack. I don't know when the Rationalwiki became a conspiracy site, but on Planet Earth, serious people listen to serious evidence. *Asterisk* (talk) 13:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
More importantly, your reversal of my points just keeps the unsourced bullshit of the Liberty conspiracy being real without sourcing or backing it up. Unless there's some sort of serious source for this groundless theory that contradicts the real research that's gone on, this is supreme bullshit. *Asterisk* (talk) 13:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Both parties (at the diplomatic level, not the military) had an interest in glossing over the incident as accidental, an unfortunate outcome in the fog of war. Given that indisputable fact, subsequent inquiries have suffered from, shall we say, a systemic bias. Simply put, the Israelis did not want a signals intelligence gathering ship in the neighborhood when they *cough*may have been*cough* launching pre-emptive air sorties. Source? A fellow who had his ear to the ground, working in mid-east intelligence on one side of the Potomac or another, in the relevant time frame.
Interestingly enough, when I was having a similar discussion with a sabra co-worker, he insisted that the IDF was justified in taking out a spy vessel just off their coast, saying "What if Israel had such a listening station five miles from the Pentagon?"
I showed him a sectional chart of the northern VA / DC area, pointing out my brother's house within that radius, and told him he would be welcome to dinner some time, and could bring his short-wave receiver, if he liked. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 13:46, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Reliable source How about Dean Rusk. As I Saw It. New York: W.W. Norton, 1990. ISBN 0-14-015391-8 page 388.
Of course, if the US Secretary of State at the time is a deluded dupe.... Cloud Yeller (talk) 13:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] I have proof God exists

When Gaza shot a rocket at Israel a strong wind a few seconds before it hit a strong wind blew it into the sea. god did it it cant be a coincidence174.239.226.66 (talk) 22:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

What a cool story. {{User:Weaseloid/sig|
Its not fake i have proof http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=24811174.239.226.66 (talk) 22:58, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah I was also wondering if this was an act of God.--TemplarJLS (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah is there any other reason a "strong wind" would deflect those missles?174.25.30.51 (talk) 03:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Whenever I ask someone to refute this news page, my edits get refuted, and Miekal even locked his User Page! so much for RATIONAL wiki!--174.25.30.51 (talk) 03:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
And CHUG! Maxus (talk) 04:07, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
No one has any refutation? Really?--TemplarJLS (talk) 04:52, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Sure; god isn't real and the wind just happened to blow like it does.--Miekal 04:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Good point. I read this news story: http://elitedaily.com/news/world/iron-dome-guy-says-hand-god-intervened/699618/

Apparently, this is an example of Correlation does not equal Causation.— Unsigned, by: User:TemplarJLS / talk / contribs

(EC) "God caused the rocket to blow into the sea" is the positive claim that requires proof. Even if that were not true, as Miekal points out, there are indeed many valid reasons that the wind could blow a missile into the sea, more or less because the wind does tend to push things. - Grant (talk) 04:58, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
It isn't really an example of "correlation does not equal causation" at all, since there's nothing to correlate. The wind blew a missile into the sea. That's the be all and end all of it. For there to exist a correlation, there must be two things that are correlated. - Grant (talk) 05:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
One question: Why didn't He stop any other missiles hitting Israel?-- Forerunner (talk) 05:07, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
To busy fixing sports matches and embarrassing liberal secularists..--Miekal 05:08, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
What wierds me out, however, is the fact that the wind was suddenly started to blow the missle into the sea a mere few seconds before it hit, then stopped right after. Coincidence?--TemplarJLS (talk) 05:22, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I've also notiaed in the same article, they claim a hamas commander said that their God is changing all their rockets direction in mid air, and that's why they fail to claim many casualties.--TemplarJLS (talk) 06:34, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, coincidence. Unlikely events happen all the time. - Grant (talk) 15:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)


[edit] Bible Propbhecy

Would Bible Prophecy be relevant on this page?

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/israel/apple_of_Gods_eye.htm

This place talks about the end tiimes happening because of Bible Prophecy saying the Israelites will return home when the End begins.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.htm

And this one claims that ten (ten!) prophecies were fulfilled just because of the Israelites returning to their "home".--サトセレ (talk) 08:18, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Can we officially call Israel an apartheid state now?

This is very troubling information coming out of Israel, the Arabs were already an openly oppressed people in the country, this new legislature will only make things worse. BlackProg (talk) 15:12 November 2014 (UTC)

I am very critical of Israel and more often than not will defend Palestinians' right to defend themselves. However, the apartheid label should be reserved for the West Bank and Gaza living under military occupation. The separation is between Jewish settlers and Palestinians, not Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs living within the Green Line. For more on this crucial distinction that often gets lost among Israel's apologists, see Jimmy Carter's "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid"
Israel left Gaza--Arisboch (talk) 11:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Biased?

I am removing the statement "(and functioning democracy, and rules against beating women)" because both claims are completely false. The first claim is refuted by the existence of Lebanon and Tunisia, flawed as they may be. The second requires a quick google search to find laws like this. Please site a source for the claim that Israel is the only country with rights for LGBT people (I wouldn't be surprised, but still). 74.194.213.129 (talk) 08:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

LGBT rights in Israel#Summary_table[wp] Gonna fix the sentence about "being the only democracy". --Arisboch (talk) 11:17, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
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