Talk:Noah's Ark

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[edit] Buy it on E-Bay

Its amazing what you can buy on E-bay! Look at the sponsored links to the right. - Icewedge 21:31, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Ah, those things are automatic. I once got the same kind of thing for "Stressful Christmas". Mind you, imagine the postal charges! Totnesmartin 07:15, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

[edit] New bit

" Every time they find the Ark Turkish authorities invariably swoop down, expose their film, confiscate their wood samples and deport them, forcing believers to settle for using Google Earth to look for it." - This implies there really is an Ark. What? Totnesmartin (not actually here) 15:33, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

It is very funny. IMHO. Worth keeping, since it's so dry, it makes you go WTF? Then you realize it's the classic conspiracy structure (all evidence always destroyed by authority). humanbe in 18:06, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

[edit] YECers and dinos

According to CP there are YECers who actually believe there are still dinosaurs roaming the earth.

Hahahaha. But I think most "mainstream" YECers (AIG?) think they became extinct by being left off the ark? I'm not going to fight over it, but let's at least throw in a link to some IDiot saying whatever they say. humanUser talk:Human 16:08, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm curious. If all the dinos went extinct because they wern't on the arc, what about other animals that were common in the oceans. Trilobites and ancient crinoids are the ones that are most obvious in their absence. Whats even more intresting is when you start looking at how many of them there were. If you look at the Mississippian period, you get huge strata of fossils that look like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Crinoids.jpg http://users.aristotle.net/~russjohn/nature/roadcut.html . Start doing the math on how many there where with a young earth, and you start thinking that the ocean bottom had deep mat of trilobites and crinoids. This doesn't even go into shark tooth fossils and how many sharks there must have been. Anyone want to take up the question of "Assume the earth is 6k years old - given the number of fossils found that were supposedly created in 40 days, how much life was there prior to Noah?" Some points to be made - all of these are sea animals, and YEC denies plate tectonics, therefore all of the animals buried during the flood. Fossils above the ground of sea animals could not have been created at a later time. --Shagie 16:57, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm not wedded to the idea of dinosaurs on the ark. I just love the mental image it conjures. Sort of Jurassic Park meets the Flintstones meets the Watchtower. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 17:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Shagie: "human mimes teh assfly plugging his ears with two 1/2" drill bits and auto-lobotomizing hisself". Ed: Yes, the imagery is wonderful. Can we try to figure out a way to exploit it in a new section, perhaps? We have the Jesus riding Dino image here somewhere already, let's photoshop up a few more (tigers snuggling with antelope, anyone?). Do we dare use a Flintstones screenshot under some guise of "fair use"? humanUser talk:Human 20:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, I went to the source (CP), and YEC Creationists do indeed believe that dinosaurs were taken aboard the Ark. Rational Edirrational 15:04, 24 March 2008 (EDT)
Yup, I see they sure do think that! Nutjobs... humanUser talk:Human 15:11, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Googled "Noah's ark" Dinosaur (images) got this horrible thing! Marghanita Laski 15:26, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Aw, she looks like a bright little kid. Too bad her education is being poisoned. humanUser talk:Human 15:41, 24 March 2008 (EDT)
Baby dinos and ickle pussycat sized dinos were there.Marghanita Laski

[edit] How many?

According to Genesis 7:2, there were SEVEN of each animal, not two. Daecon 11:53, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

I think it was seven of some, two of others, right? And isn't it only two in another chapter? ħumanUser talk:Human 17:15, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

[edit] recommended disco inst research

So, if Disco or AIG research...if Noah's Ark is true, there should be an obvious founder effect. Since we "know" when it took place, they could do genomic analysis to determine whether the present population is consistent with a pair of founders x thousand years ago. Think theyll do it?-- Asclepius staff.png-PalMD --If it looks like a donut... 21:02, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh, there you go again with your Devil's "Science" to support your atheist lies... ħumanUser talk:Human 02:27, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

[edit] Crew

Looking at some of PJR's drivel about the Ark over at aSK, I've started to wonder about a topic I don't see raised all that often. Even aside from feeding the animals, there are a lot of tasks required to keep a ship afloat. But their entire crew consisted of eight people, including females who probably wouldn't be expected to be doing much of that stuff. Now I know most of the models assume the Ark to be pretty much a giant wooden brick because there aren't sails, rudder, and so forth mentioned in the Bible, but seeing as "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", they might actually be included even if not explicitly brought up. But if they were there, that'd be that much more work for an untrained, far-less-than-skeleton crew who'd never worked a ship that size before (obviously nobody had). The Creatards keep trying to find ships of comparable size, but most of those took a platoon to keep them afloat. --Kels 12:15, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

[edit] Captivity

Another little side issue now that I'm thinking of the Ark, aside from the Hurculean and then some task of feeding all the animals, dealing with carnivores, etc., very few of them would be domesticated. And I think we all know how wild animals act once put in a cage, even if it's for their protection. So not only would they have hungry animals, you'd have pissed off animals, all looking for an escape. And even the domesticated ones would probably be in full panic during the conditions of a flood like that. Thinking of the inside of that Ark, pitching and tossing, with elephants, rhinos, tigers and similar in full panic, he'd back only by some wood bars, it'd be a total horror show. --Kels 12:09, 10 April 2009 (EDT)


[edit] A problem

If there was a teal Noah, I would feel very sorry for him having to collect 2(or seven) of every beetle.--Thedoctor80 (talk) 14:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

Creationists say that every animal was created during the creation week, right?Well, there are some websites, like Answers in Genesis which say that there were not as many animals in Noah's time as there are today?How did the other animals get here if it was not evolution???--Thedoctor80 (talk) 18:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

1. Magic. 2. Baraminology. 3. Better to ask them than us.:-) --BobSpring is sprung! 18:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Creationists aren't in the business of explaining. But if we're going to ask questions about what they think they're talking about: If there were only kinds (baramins) on Noah's Ark, how did it come about that, in the post-Deluge world, animals got classified into species, and kinds are not of any significance any more? Where does the Bible tell us about the creation of species? TomS TDotO (talk) 12:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


[edit] "Explaining" the ark

It was a #very# large tardis-like construct, complete with interdimensional-storage and the creatures were like Schroedinger's Cat neither alive nor dead until let out. There were also vast quantities of 'Instant Reconstruction greenery" (tm) (genetically engineered for waterlogged soil). One all the creatures had been decanted the Ark was used to store all the waters of the flood (which was then sent to Duneworld).

Another problem with the Ark thesis is the lack of genetic variety (as with the UK elms - all descended descended from 1 tree (and thus virtual clones) - and were all affected by Dutch Elm disease as none had immunity. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 19:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

[edit] External links to funny

If it were OUR funny, I'd be all over it; but link to somebody else's funny don't really add much to what could be a a big-deal article given its centrality to the mission. That said, I'm not gonna get all pissy about it. B♭maj7 (talk) Medical science has confirmed that this is the worst head cold that anyone has ever had. Nobody has ever been sicker than this. Ever. 01:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

I won't get pissy about it either, but the NonStampCollector video is not only quite amusing, but it does present some very pertinent information in a very accessible way. It's an argument against the Biblical literalist interpretation in itself. I really don't see what harm it does, especially if we present it as a humorous representation. DickTurpis (talk) 01:48, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Keep both links. They are both relevant, entertaining and informative. And I am always pissy. DamoHi 01:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
The thing that I really like about the NonStampCollector vid is that it so brilliantly highlights the absurdity of it. Biblical literalists say this actually happened; so let's see what that would look like... ADK...I'll steal your fetus! 10:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

[edit] How much water?

Many creationists point out that the Bible not only refers to rain as a source of the water (that is, the water above the firmament) but also "the fountains of the deep". TomS TDotO (talk) 12:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Hence the whole hydroplate theory thing. Probably worth clarifying in the article here, though. Scarlet A.pngbomination 14:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

[edit] Sentence excised

I cut this bit out: Every time they find the Ark Turkish authorities invariably swoop down, expose their film, confiscate their wood samples and deport them, forcing believers to settle for using Google Earth to look for it.

I excised it because it's just not true, it's not particularly funny and frankly a bit racist (retracted). My wife is a Turkish diplomat, so she's well aware of what actually goes on in this area. The Turkish government is extremely tolerant of the Ark hunters, primarily because it deeply believes in the fundamental right of every human being (and particularly Americans) to give them hard currency.

The recent permission given to a group of ark hunters to open a "Noah's Ark Museum" in eastern Turkey was taken by some as meaning the Turkish government has now endorsed the "fact" of the ark's existence. This is akin to believing the US government endorses the existence of "magic" because they gave Disney a permit to open the "Magic Kingdom". Voxhumana (talk) 01:55, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Voxy in that although it isn't racist in the slightest it is completely unsourced. AceModerator 02:01, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm putting together a somewhat more reliable version of the situation (complete with sourcing). In keeping with the tone of RW, I'll be presenting this more from the perspective of... "Turkey is delighted to be the owner of this little cash-cow." Voxhumana (talk) 02:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
We're into sourcing stuff now? Neat. ^.^ --MtDPrematurely Indeterminate 02:39, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Well only to a point. I was about to write a fascinating section explaining that the Turkish government encourages Ark hunters, and had even named the area "Noah's Ark National Park". (A key point which is espoused by hundreds of pro-flood websites - (Google search)). Plus my wife has been involved in arranging visas and permits for a few Australian "ark hunts" in the last couple of years.
This belief about there being "official support" was (I'm embarrassed to say) largely based on the claims of these "pro-flood" websites. However a bit of digging has made me completely doubt this "official" approval, as the actual name for the national park is "Durupınar", and it was named for a Turkish military hero who died in the 1970s. I can't find any evidence which suggests the Turkish government officially recognises anything, other than the cashflow. I've asked my wife to dig a bit deeper, purely because I'm now interested. She has the advantage of being able to communicate with the Turkish Ministry of Culture directly (and in Turkish). Voxhumana (talk) 02:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining that as my first instinct was to revert. Please replace it with something snarky and sourced. Redchuck.gif ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science.Moderator 07:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, a Turkish government point of view would be most interesting. --Bob"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 08:52, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit] The Turkish Government position

I'm still working on this, but so far I can confirm there is definitely no such place as "Noah's Ark National Park" in Turkey, despite the claims of various flood websites and Fox News. There IS a road sign that points to the site discovered by Wyatt, which you can learn about here. (My absolute favourite part of that site is how they suddenly decide the Koran is A-OK by them when it appears to agree with their theory). As road signs are provided by the local government that's not exactly conclusive (I've personally seen the road sign in Turkey indicating the birthplace of Santa Claus). Voxhumana (talk) 09:41, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Nother pic here. I guess that's how you spell Noah in Turkish? Or in the Koran?--Bob"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 10:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Bu what about this?--Bob"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 10:07, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
(Citing my wife here, my turkish is crap). Noah in Turkish is Nuh. "un" is the possessive, so Nuh'un = "Noah's". "Gemesi" literally means "big boat", but is equivalent to "ship".
As far as the second pic, the Turkish underneath translates as "Noah's big boat information visitor center". There is nothing about it being a National Park. Every now and then Turkish borrows an English word, so "National Park" in Turkish is just "Milli Park" (the plural however is "parklar" - hence see milliparklar.gov.tr for the official national park website). Bottom line, this appears to be something run by an enterprising local. My wife is still investigating however. Voxhumana (talk) 11:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
"Visitor Center" - the spelling shows who is the intended audience. Redchuck.gif ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science.Moderator 11:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, my mistake, that's actually what my wife originally said. I'll get her to do the future translations :) Voxhumana (talk) 11:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
It wasn't a dig at you, it was the use of US spelling in the image that I was remarking on. Redchuck.gif ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science.Moderator 11:50, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Actually, once we have (or, in reality, Voxhumana has) got the info it will certainly make an interesting - and potentially amusing - addition to the aricle.--Bob"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 12:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Googling about I find the the "exhibition center" must be a powerful organization! It says here that: On June 20, 1987 the Government of Turkey was founded by Noah's Ark Nature Reserve. So apparently they control the government!--Bob"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." 12:31, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
And to think all those Turks still believe it was Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. I'll go and correct the Wikipedia article immediately.Voxhumana (talk) 12:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit] The update

OK, here's the actual position, courtesy of the Turkish Ministry of Culture.

  1. - As an Islamic republic, the republic of Turkey recognizes the scriptural significance of the story of Noah's Ark to Jews, Christians and Muslims across the world. However the Turkish government does not recognize the existence of the physical remnants of 'Noah's Ark' within the Republic of Turkey.
  2. - Ağrı Dağı National Park (Ağrı Dağı Milli parkı) was established in 2004 as the 35th National Park in Turkey. It covers an area of 87,380 Ha. Here is the official page for it (in Turkish) Ağrı Dağı Milli parkı). The mountain known in English as 'Mount Ararat' is located within this national park.
  3. - There is a district within Ağrı Dağı National Park called Durupınar. Located in that district is a rock formation popularly known as Nuh'un Gemisi, or 'Noah's Big Boat'.
  4. - It is a standard practice to provide road signs that reflect the local name for a landmark. The road sign indicating the location of "Noah's Ark" acknowledges that that is the common local name. It does not have any other significance.
  5. - The Turkish Ministry of Culture does not operate a "Noah's Ark National Park Visitor Center". The official visitors centre for Ağrı Dağı National Park is located in the town of Doğubeyazıt.

I got all of the above information from the Turkish Consulate General in Sydney. Feel free to verify it at your local consulate or embassy (list). Contacting the Ministry of Culture directly is only advisable if you can communicate in Turkish. VOXHUMANA 04:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit] What about all the other boats?

Seems like something we should address. -- Seth Peck (talk) 06:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

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