Talk:Pseudoscience

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[edit] Cover story

This here is a proper bureaucratic cover nomination. I think it's basically ready too. But we should let it cook for (say) a week first, lure lots of eyes to it, etc - David Gerard (talk) 16:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Search engines

As of this posting, this article is third in line in Google's results for "pseudoscience", behind only WP and Scientific American. That's something!

Also, what is currently keeping this article from cover story status? Frostbyte (talk) 01:58, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, I think it's damn close. Be bold - "gold" it and write a cover story synopsis of the lead. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
"Pseudoscience is any belief system or methodology which tries to gain legitimacy by wearing the trappings of science, but fails to abide by the rigorous methodology and standards of evidence that demarcate true science. Although pseudoscience is designed to have the appearance of being scientific, it lacks any of the substance of science.

Promoters of pseudoscience often adopt the vocabulary of science, describing conjectures as theories or laws, often providing supposed evidence from observation, expert testimonials, or even developing what appear to be mathematical models of their ideas. However, in pseudoscience there is no real honest attempt to follow the scientific method, provide falsifiable predictions, or develop double blind experiments." Ought to work well (with the wiki links added back in). Do it. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:51, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Quod erat faciendum. Frostbyte (talk) 17:41, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia

And, of course: What does the Wikipedia article have that we should have, and what can we put in that they can't? - David Gerard (talk) 16:34, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Pseudoscientific method

I have an '80s skeptical book that details the "pseudoscientific method", will dig that up and cite it - David Gerard (talk) 16:36, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Please do dig it up. In fact, we already have pseudoscientific method, but it is not linked from this article, nor from scientific method, strangely. Is the content substantially the same as what your book gives? --84.151.189.211 (talk) 17:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] "Pseudoscientific claims are never specific but rely on vague and ambiguous language, often encompassing grandiose claims."

Are they never specific?--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 16:10, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

that doesn't ring true. certainly the cross-my-palm-with-silver crowd make vague claims, but what about the lot trying to impose something resembling science on the field? Time for a nose round the SPR, I think. SophieWilderModerator 18:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
They're giving at good go, at least. We can change that line. SophieWilderModerator 19:06, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
The society of homeopaths has a research section. Irony time: the statement that "pseudoscientists are never specific but only make vague claims" is itself non-specific and vague. SophieWilderModerator 19:11, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
I think this is problem of context. Homoeopaths will happily make explicit claims about the effectiveness of their products and faith healers will claim that God helps them to cure people.
But they will not usually submit their claims to rigorous scientific evaluation. The statement does need to be modified somewhat.--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 19:15, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
There seem to be two types of pseudoscientist: those who think their field has scientific merit and try to use science to prove it, and those pushing an agenda/using it to make a living - and caring only about the trappings of science. SophieWilderModerator 19:26, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure that that distinction - if it exists - makes much difference in reality. They would be be both be equally guilty of abusing the scientific method.--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 20:01, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Ahh, i'm just making a feeble attempt to defend parapsychology. don't mind me. SophieWilderModerator 11:35, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Fad diets

" Fad diets in particular are prone to this [Frequent changes in methodology without changing the conclusions], spewing out technobabble on how this newly discovered trick will trim the hell out of your waistline while not explaining why it dropped the previous dozens of claims." This seems to imply that fad diets have a single source, which simply brings out new ones when the old ones fail. Is this so? Fad diets have any number of origins, and may even (the current gluten free one being an example) have a scientific origin (in this case, that a small number of people need to exclude gluten, therefore "gluten is bad for you"). SophieWilderModerator 19:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Mention an evolutionary reason explaining where pseudo-science and conspiracy theories derive their attractiveness from

There is a TED conference where this was mentioned. It goes like, imagine humans several 10.000 years ago gathering food, and someone hearing a sound, viewing something strange that might indicate a major predator scouting for some well tasting human flesh? We better be 10 times wrong and flee, rather than being wrong 1 time and being eaten. Today this translates to why our eyes are often caught by conspiracy theories: we better read them because they sound quite deadly if the claims would be true, and live another day, rather than risking to skip them and missing out on some key information to survive. The downside of this is of course that we have to spend hours to read and verify stuff: it is easy to claim something just spending a couple of minutes, but it may take hours to analyse and go look for facts that debunk the conspiracy theory. Hence the raison d'être of rationalwiki: make a page on yet another conspiracy theory and use the available shared free time, knowledge to help debunk it in a collaborative effort instead of having to do all the debunking yourself. It's a time saver, so you can continue to focus on what's really important in your life. Where would be the most appropriate place to mention this? Sorry, no more time than this. Thy. newcomer --SvenAERTS228 (talk) 18:32, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Cover story (sticky)

This would make a great cover story. (It's the third hit on Google.) Plenty of the criticisms on the talk page are still valid, though.

From tmtoulouse:

  • The costs of pseudoscience, both in terms of dollars, life and health, and general rational and critical thinking skills (tmt found this, also see Anti-science#Why_it_is_important)
  • Data on who believes what, that new Rasmussen poll just came out and there are others
  • The demarcation problem at least outlined

From David Gerard:

Also: should Pseudoscientific method be merged in, since it's barely linked to and to directly contrast science's and pseudoscience's processes? 32℉uzzy, 0℃atPotato (talk/stalk) 02:06, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

The last sentence of the lead is pretty sketchy. Hard to read, and a rather poor analogy/metaphor. The donkey in the lion suit in Narnia would be just as good, by which I mean, not very. ħumanUser talk:Human 16:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Better? FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 17:12, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Last call

Seems like most problems have been addressed. Any objections to golding? Sir ℱ℧ℤℤϒℂᗩℑᑭƠℑᗩℑƠ (talk/stalk) 23:57, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Can we gold it now? |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg EVERY SINGLE MISSILE HIT THE TARGET!!! AAAAAAAAAGHH!!!!! 16:24, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
I've got nothing. It looks pretty polished. Every time I think "maybe it's missing X", I peruse a bit further and find it. Readable, full of useful visual aids, breaks down its topic thoroughly, and light-to-medium snark when required. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 16:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
I decided to be bold and went and gilded it. |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg By the way, 2 divided into 666 is 333 18:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
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