Talk:Rome Viharo
Contents |
[edit] new aiki wiki stuff
I'm afraid the writers of the section made a few incredibly ill considered errors in trying to refute the rules of aiki gamification. It's up to the community here if they want to do anything about it.
- I advise anyone reading this to simply go to the archived copies of Mr. Viharo's wiki referenced, read, and see what they think. If I'm honestly that crazy, someone let me know, but I'm not going to copypasta this woefully uncritical interpretation of Mr. Viharo's nonsense into the article. PacWalker 01:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Line One
Beethoven's Fifth is apparently a lie.[12] Note that "or" has been substituted for the original's "and/or," thereby shedding some of the more interesting implications about truth. First off, any assignment of 0, 1, or 2 by any user can be either logical or intuitive. it's just meant to convey to the platform what that sentence or comment means *to the user*.
Secondly - It would be a mistake to confuse the assignment of 2:false with 2:art, while they may share something in common, they do not contextualize the same thing by any means - and neither of them would be used to describe any musical work unless of course one was simply informing the platform that a musical work falls under the arts (which there is no need for) or wanted to have a broader philosophical discussion which of course would be up to them. anything with a '2' assignment is going to relate more to ideas that have a more subjective nature to them. 0 1 and 2 are used to inform the platform of contexts in the discussion, as well as which forum rules apply. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Line two
'The claim that "all ideas are inherently in conflict or have the potential for conflict," but that only the labeling of opposing statements as true can create conflict.
I appreciate you guys trying to make an effort here - but this is a really tortured misunderstanding. the ikia does not say that the 'labeling' of statements as true is what creates conflict, it says when ideas are believed to be true thus enters the conflict of idea. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
For example, if one labeled the claim that there is carbon in DNA true, but the claim that carbon even exists false, there would be no conflict, because assignments of the 1 (true) value can conflict only with other assignments of the 1 value.
Really not sure how you're coming to this at all. You're making up you're own rules here, this is not aiki wiki. You have it backwards and in the wrong order. If a user assigns a 0, 1 or 2 to any statement - it's easy for both the platform, and the collaborative, to see where there is disagreement between users over assignments. IF there is perfect agreement, then all assignments that share 1 in common will all have agreements. Surely you do not think that just because someone assigns a '1' to the statement "carbon does not exist" is not going to come into conflict with someone who may very well suggest otherwise? 104.175.42.84 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Line Three
People are not ideas, and are not in conflict. While understandably passing over the issue of what a person is, this one still claims that people are not in conflict with each other. You see, the KKK didn't actually hate black people. There was just a conflict of ideas
It's a little vague how your viewing aiki wiki right now. The 'ikia' are rules for a game. it's not an ontological claim about reality. This is the same problem I have with some of you bozo's, can you all tell the difference between creative narration, art, prose and critical or theoretical writing? These are rules for a game that helps organize and engineer a discussion. sheesh.
Secondly - the concept of 'inherently' is something your missing. ideas may inherently be in conflict. it's just information. true information will always be in conflict with false information. That sort of conflict is more mathematical and logical. 'People' are not inherently in conflict, meaning it's something we inherit from our ideas about the world around us. If the KKK were inherently in conflict with black people, then that would mean that white people and black people would have and will continue to fight and kill each other every day all the time. That's clearly not the case. It's clearly the case the KKK as a set of ideas that they believe to be true, and are implementing those ideas on the world, as if those ideas were the world. Please try to understand this core distinction.104.175.42.84 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Line Four"All conflict resolves win all sides win." We'll let you figure out what that sentence means.
'when all sides involved in a real conflict begin to 'win' (this term can take on different meanings) - then the entire conflict resolves. i.e. if you're a solutions engineer, then looking for solutions where all inputs are obtaining a value is a strategy you want to design. If only one side in the conflict wins - the conflict is still not resolved for the losing side. This should not be hard to understand.104.175.42.84 (talk) 00:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Really? "All conflict resolves win..." is not a typo? Marlow (talk) 02:26, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm going to presume it's nonsense and not a typo, given the context. PacWalker 02:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- This is what I get from his endless circular argumentation: it's logic, except when it's subjective, it's reality, except when it's a game, it's true, except when it's false, it's trolling, except when it's "creative", etc. In other words, it's a wheelbarrow to more efficiently haul around bullshit. Leuders (talk) 14:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Now you're just making shit up. Also FYI - yes that's a typo on the site. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 16:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Rome, you write pseudophilosophical gibberish, made all the more incomprehensible by glaring typos which fundamentally alter the meaning of your prose. When people quote the typo directly, saying it's gibberish, your response is to repeat the typo and say "This should not be hard to understand." Are you being serious or is this more Bubblefish style trolling? Marlow (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Marlow: If you want to accuse me of writing pseudo philosophical gibberish, do so with intellectual honesty and brevity - not by highlighting a typo. I do apologize for my typos, truly. But that's not what you're saying - you're saying my typos are the reason you're implying this is a crank idea. My typos are why I would prefer to hire an editor, but I don't have the budget, or much time, to proof read. This is a time sink for me just as much as you. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- EDIT: also probably fair to note that I am dyslexic - sometimes just as annoying to me as it is for you. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:16, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Leuders: You're attacking me as a person, on this forum - you don't know me and something you fail to grasp is that first and foremost, I am a creative writer. The problem you're having is your mixing statements I make in a creative setting - and stringing them to statements I make in a critical setting and combining them into your own unique misunderstanding of the person you're engaging with. You're being intellectually lazy. You're not providing any proper, rational peer review. If I was on 4Chan or Reddit, I wouldn't expect you to. However - you're a member of a community that claims to publish in evidence based facts. That's a high standard. I'm asking you to either keep your standard in this discussion, or disengage in any critical component of it. If you have an opinion of me, start a blog. Hit me up on twitter. Instead, you're abusing the power of this websites ranking to broadcast your personal opinions which haven't passed any reasonable test for veracity. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not implying that your idea is a "crank idea" (your words, not mine or the article's) because your website has typos - your idea's validity or lack thereof is readily apparent and I have no interest in debating it with you. What's troublesome is your reaction to having these typos pointed out; you just plow along assuming the other party is wrong. It makes me think you're engaged in the same type of self promotional trolling you did as Bubblefish. Marlow (talk) 18:27, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Marlow, you're bullshitting me right now. If it's so apparent, why can't you point out WHAT is pseudoscientific or cranky about the idea? IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, then you HAVE NO BUSINESS EDITING an article about me or the topic or participating in any consensus building on the matter. You're intellectually dishonest and you're just here to abuse someone. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 21:05, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I get the sense you're trying to bait me into a debate, a tactic you've admittedly used in the past. I don't have much interest in this topic and only jumped into the conversation because you were being such a putz by blaming people for not understanding your own garbled text, I couldn't help but point it out (I'm starting to regret it now). Instead of saying, "thanks for pointing out the typo" (which still remains on your website at least on my browser), you attack me, saying "you're saying my typos are the reason you're implying this is a crank idea," something I never did. Frankly, I'd cut down the section of the article regarding Aiki Wiki, it's only tangentially related with your efforts to promote pseudoscience on the internet (Sheldrake, Chopra etc) and seems like just the latest chapter in your decade long effort to promote your idea about tri-positional logic. Marlow (talk) 22:33, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not trying to 'trap' you in a debate. I don't recall you saying 'hey heads up there is a typo on your site!' I recall you using one typo to justify saying the whole project is garbled while clarifying that I write pseudo philosophy. I also find your claim that I promote pseudoscience because I edited Rupert's article dishonest. If you want to hate on me because I designed architecture for Deepak Chopra, fine - but please dont call me a supporter or an endorsee of his, I'm not. If I promote or endorse something, it's on my blog. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:31, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Leuders: You're attacking me as a person, on this forum - you don't know me and something you fail to grasp is that first and foremost, I am a creative writer. The problem you're having is your mixing statements I make in a creative setting - and stringing them to statements I make in a critical setting and combining them into your own unique misunderstanding of the person you're engaging with. You're being intellectually lazy. You're not providing any proper, rational peer review. If I was on 4Chan or Reddit, I wouldn't expect you to. However - you're a member of a community that claims to publish in evidence based facts. That's a high standard. I'm asking you to either keep your standard in this discussion, or disengage in any critical component of it. If you have an opinion of me, start a blog. Hit me up on twitter. Instead, you're abusing the power of this websites ranking to broadcast your personal opinions which haven't passed any reasonable test for veracity. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Rome, you write pseudophilosophical gibberish, made all the more incomprehensible by glaring typos which fundamentally alter the meaning of your prose. When people quote the typo directly, saying it's gibberish, your response is to repeat the typo and say "This should not be hard to understand." Are you being serious or is this more Bubblefish style trolling? Marlow (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Now you're just making shit up. Also FYI - yes that's a typo on the site. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 16:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- This is what I get from his endless circular argumentation: it's logic, except when it's subjective, it's reality, except when it's a game, it's true, except when it's false, it's trolling, except when it's "creative", etc. In other words, it's a wheelbarrow to more efficiently haul around bullshit. Leuders (talk) 14:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm going to presume it's nonsense and not a typo, given the context. PacWalker 02:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Seriously - I fail to grasp how a crowd of 'intellectuals' can fail to determine what Line Four is saying. Did you try switching the first word 'win' to 'when'? I mean it's an obvious typo, primarily because 'win' and 'when' are homonyms. 'sides' refers to 'players' in a 'game'. Any conflict, physical or ideological, can be modeled as a 'game'. In the game of aiki wiki - all sides winning is also programmatic in the assignment of editing permissions. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:14, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] ISHAR and Rational Wiki
I also see plenty of editors here using my association with Deepak Chopra and ISHAR as evidence that I deserve to be shamed on Rational Wiki. I've disclosed my history with Deepak Chopra transparently. I've developed a collaborative digital library which ANY organization could use. Even Rational Wiki could use the aiki atheneum. I'm a problem solver. I like solving online problems. Perhaps I was naive as to the pushback I would receive, but hey, I live in Southern California - we tend not to be so reactive to people when they do yoga and meditate. I've created media plans for Jennifer Aniston, that doesn't mean I endorse her films personally. I've developed media plans for Brazil, that does not mean I endorse their politics. If I endorse something, I blog about it. Deepak Chopra is a very famous and well connected person. He also hired me to apply my work. I worked with him because he contacted me and paid me. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 18:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- By "transparently," of course, you mean never mentioned it until you were fired, correct? Hipocrite (talk) 16:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] About Rome Viharo, written with more accurate context
[edit] About Rome Viharo
Rome Viharo is a social media strategist, CEO of an ad technology company, former recording artist, viral marketer, digital filmmaker, and blogger. He was called an Internet troll a few times in 2007 on a discussion forums. He also left comments on the TED blog known protesting TED for removing the a talk given by Rupert Sheldrake and edited biographical information on his Wikipedia page. Viharo is a member of the TED community having given a TEDx talk in 2011 called 'Google Consciousness'.
His website claims to tell his version of events regarding editing Wikipedia and references skeptic editors on Wikipedia skeptic noticeboards. In addition to criticizing Wikipedia's policy for site abuse, he also claims to design collaborative platforms and consults individuals with Wikipedia problems. One of his clients was Deepak Chopra. ISHAR was designed based on Viharo's principles of collaborative curation.
12 years ago, Viharo claims he was experimenting with a new creative medium on discussion forums called OS 012. To promote OS 012, He developed an online persona called 'Bubblefish: Flame Warrior', which a few people did not like and argued with him about it.
Viharo has a history of creative writing, viral marketing and comedic mediums, using humor and set ups as part of particular brand of creative writing. In 2001, he created the persona 'The Fifi Bastard', a fake music producer from France, to promote his EMI recording of the same name. Years later, he further experimented with 'The Fifi Bastard' in blogs and various forums.
Additionally, he created a fake 'Morgan Freeman' cigarette commercial, and 'Barack Obama in college' with comedian Freddy Lockhart.
Viharo promotes ideas on 'futurism and media' on his blog and promotes the development of his project aiki wiki.
In 2011, he gave a TEDx talk Google Consciousness, which tells the story about the creation of the meme google consciousness, and uses the talk to promote his concepts of social media evolving to replace government. Claiming in the talk to 'not know what he is talking about' when it comes to consciousness, he explored how 'Google search' describes two competing models of consciousness and the possibility that a search algorithm could actually be sentient based on what they are saying, while clarifying this is not what he personally believes. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 21:44, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] WWHAP
[1] Viharo compares RW and WP editors. FuzzyCatTomato (talk/stalk) 23:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- He stupidly included his real name in his first Talk Page post as Tumbleman [2] and now he's claiming it was someone else's fault. Priceless. Leuders (talk) 14:45, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm glad you brought that up Leuders, that's going to be what a new post on WWHP is going to address - the claim that I 'outed' myself. That's highly misleading and a distortion, and either if it was, using material from off wikipedia from the past is against WP editing policy and is considered WP Hounding and harassment. I'm at an office IP address today, so this is Rome posting this comment. 107.184.43.199 (talk) 22:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can only speculate, but I'm guessing that after "Tumbleman" disrupted the Sheldrake Talk page with dozens of level 2 headers, accused multiple editors of being part of a GSoW conspiracy, etc. that someone took a look at the accounts contributions to determine who or what was behind the disruption and if they were dealing with a troll or a new user who was confused about policy. To me, that isn't "hounding and harassment", it's community responsibility. I'm sorry that goes against your "I'm a victim" narrative, but reality is, after all, reality. Leuders (talk) 12:42, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- If you're publishing facts on an evidenced based encyclopedia, you should NOT be speculating here, you should be checking your claims with the evidence. Right now you've been exposed to other online evidence that would contradict the 'snarky' narrative that is posted of me here. You are consciously choosing to not publish evidence that may inform the reader to question the validity of your speculation. I will be publishing the evidence shortly that will prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that my identity was outed and I was personally attacked on Wikipedia, within my first 4 days of arrive on the Sheldrake article.104.175.42.84 (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Using past WP posts is against WP policy? Damn, might as well axe the user contribs page altogether. PacWalker 13:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Read for yourself. Thanks.104.175.42.84 (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Rome's "I'm a victim" fantasy seems to include the idea that the 5 WP admins who banned him [3] were too lazy to actually review his contributions but instead took the word of others. Yet a simple read-through of the 5 admins comments makes it abundantly clear that they reviewed "Tumbleman"s contributions and erratic conduct before coming to a unanimous decision. Leuders (talk) 13:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I urge to to check your facts clearly, and the claims I am making.You are currently offering to publish third party corroboration on this publisher of events that occurred on Wikipedia, which stores all of the activity and evidence. This means, if you are to report on factual events, that you must look at all the evidence, not just the evidence that you cherry pick to fit the narrative you're peddline here. If you read what the admins wrote, that means you also read that a significant number of the community did not agree I was a troll and defended my contributions. If you actually check my talk page contributions, you will not find anything other than editorial based comments. If you actually knew Wikipedia policy, you would see that those 5 admins not only did not take uninvolved editors support as well as other involved editors support, but failed to mention anything about Vzaak/Manul using off wiki comments from years ago and 'splitting comments' in talk my first few days as the sole evidence. If you knew Wikipedia culture, you would know that 5 admins weighing in on something holds about as much weight as your own article for deletion process here. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I guarantee if those 5 admins had said you were a model wikipedian you'd be arguing how wise and experienced they are. In any case, RW does not care about your old Wikipedia battles. Really, neither do I. Leuders (talk) 21:56, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Then you should remove any reporting of them since you are making direct claims about them. And fyi, I was also SAS81 on Chopra's article. Guess what? I HAD admin support there, and even some supportive comments from a few of the skeptic editors like jps. I also won that wiki war and my arguments reached consensus of senior wiki editors. Dont care about my reports on Wikipedia? fine delete the friggin article it's the only reason why it's here. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 02:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- I guarantee if those 5 admins had said you were a model wikipedian you'd be arguing how wise and experienced they are. In any case, RW does not care about your old Wikipedia battles. Really, neither do I. Leuders (talk) 21:56, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I urge to to check your facts clearly, and the claims I am making.You are currently offering to publish third party corroboration on this publisher of events that occurred on Wikipedia, which stores all of the activity and evidence. This means, if you are to report on factual events, that you must look at all the evidence, not just the evidence that you cherry pick to fit the narrative you're peddline here. If you read what the admins wrote, that means you also read that a significant number of the community did not agree I was a troll and defended my contributions. If you actually check my talk page contributions, you will not find anything other than editorial based comments. If you actually knew Wikipedia policy, you would see that those 5 admins not only did not take uninvolved editors support as well as other involved editors support, but failed to mention anything about Vzaak/Manul using off wiki comments from years ago and 'splitting comments' in talk my first few days as the sole evidence. If you knew Wikipedia culture, you would know that 5 admins weighing in on something holds about as much weight as your own article for deletion process here. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- One revision forward would've been preferable, but yeah. PacWalker 13:31, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can only speculate, but I'm guessing that after "Tumbleman" disrupted the Sheldrake Talk page with dozens of level 2 headers, accused multiple editors of being part of a GSoW conspiracy, etc. that someone took a look at the accounts contributions to determine who or what was behind the disruption and if they were dealing with a troll or a new user who was confused about policy. To me, that isn't "hounding and harassment", it's community responsibility. I'm sorry that goes against your "I'm a victim" narrative, but reality is, after all, reality. Leuders (talk) 12:42, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm glad you brought that up Leuders, that's going to be what a new post on WWHP is going to address - the claim that I 'outed' myself. That's highly misleading and a distortion, and either if it was, using material from off wikipedia from the past is against WP editing policy and is considered WP Hounding and harassment. I'm at an office IP address today, so this is Rome posting this comment. 107.184.43.199 (talk) 22:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Request for responsible publishing, Wikipedia harassment in article
Leuders does not make responsible claims regarding my outing and harassment. I am requesting that RW, as a responsible publisher, review the evidence here and publish this evidence in the article so the reader may have accurate context.
This section is grossly irresponsible, and seeks to cherry pick evidence to fit the 'snarky' point of view of the RW brand while failing to include facts or evidence that would detract from the RW brand.
[edit] Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia First sentence
In 2013, Viharo began to insist that Rupert Sheldrake's "morphic resonance" is not pseudoscience.[ Viharo as Tumbleman] argues that Sheldrake's morphic resonance isn't pseudoscience.
This sentence misleads the reader to think that I argue for the tenacity of Morphic Resonance as a scientific hypothesis. This sentence is framed this way because it allows my narrative to fit the 'snarky' point of view. The full context of this source, in addition to all direct quotes attributable to me on Wikipedia, show that my argument is about the application of WP: Fringe to a BLP and the sources other editors were using to determine it deserved it. These are editorial, not ideological arguments and it's misleading the reader as to what I believe. I am NOT QUALIFIED to assert that morphic resonance IS or IS NOT pseudoscience as a scientific dialogue, however I am qualified to argue that Wikipedia editors should be guided by the sources and WP policy, as my clear statements on Rupert Sheldrake's talk page disclosed.
Why is that not accounted for in my narrative on Rational Wiki? Isn't it misleading the reader to think I am declaring something ideological when instead I am clearly stating something editorially based on sources and consensus building? 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Viharo argues that Sheldrake's critique of "the scientific materialistic philosophy" is "an idea worth spreading
I believe this is grossly misleading use of a reference or source to fit a snarky narrative for Rational Wiki. Can you account for this? Your'e putting an unnecessarily large amount of weight on comments I made on the TED blog, along with a few thousand other people, protesting TED's removal of Rupert's talk. I'm a member of the TED community. It was a TED sponsored discussion. It was a blog comment post. I didn't think the removal of the talk was warranted based on their reasoning. So? That I stood up to someone's right to broadcast their views? Why is this so important for the reader to know about my narrative? Why are blog comments being used to establish a level of support I have for Sheldrake's work? Is it because you're community believes the more association I have with Rupert Sheldrake the more association I have to the snarky point of view of RW? Is it responsible for RW editors to find blog comments by private citizens and use them to frame embarrassing articles about them?
Viharo became an online activist in support of Sheldrake's claims that a conspiracy of "ideologue" skeptics were targeting him for abuse.
This is misleading. I was not an online activist regarding 'skeptic' behaviors, that happened after I actually got harassed on Wikipedia. I was eager to help resolve a wiki war. I do not claim a 'conspiracy' - I show evidence of what occurred to me on Wikipedia through evidenced based investigation. By failing to disclose this to the reader, you misrepresent my content and my integrity as a publisher to the reader for the sake of having the article reflect the 'snarky point of view' RW brand.
Farley concludes, "the central claim, that Guerrilla Skeptics are controlling Sheldrake’s bio, is demonstrably false. It is a classic conspiracy theory."
This sentence misleads the reader as to my claims and tries to link a comment by Tim Farley as a reference to support something which I have publicly contradicted. Indeed, I clarified that both in the article and on my site in the clearest of language that I did NOT believe that organization was editing. What I did say is that the editors who were editing, a significant number of them were self declared skeptics, single purpose accounts of only skeptic topics, and argued directly for the skeptical point of view on the article. By falsely connected me with demonstrably true assertions that GS were not on Sheldrake's article, the sentence seeks to damage my credibility as collaborative engineer and consensus builder.
In an interview with parapsychology advocate Alex Tsakiris, Viharo said there was "definitely a conspiracy" of skeptics who were personally targeting him.He characterized the struggle as "a war of ideas", and compared it to "Americans and Nazis" fighting against each other in World War II. Rome Viharo, Wikipedia, We Have a Problem Skeptiko.com
Out of context. Alex asked me if I believed there was a conspiracy of skeptics on Wikipedia harassing other people and edit warring. I *laughed* and said there was definitely a conspiracy against me to ban me off of Wikipedia. That's me playing with Alex's wording, NOT mine. I make it clear in the interview that I believe it is 'group think'. I use the analogy of the US vs Germany in WW2 is a POOR example, okay you got me. I could have chosen a better example to talk about two ideological struggles. Who cares. By taking those statements out of context, and failing to disclose to the reader exactly what I do claim that it is a symptom of group think, common in any group, it misleads by making it appear that I am attacking skeptic ideology, and I am an opponent of skepticism. This is done to form my narrative to the snarky point of view to the taunts of the Rational Wiki community.
However, no such conspiracy of skeptics appears to exist.
Rational Wiki is now making a formal claim. It is claiming that the harassment i received on Wikipedia is a false claim. It has also provided no source for this statement. The article attempts to fudge the fact that GSW are not on Rupert's article with a demonstrable fact that editors involved with skepticism were indeed on the article and even self disclosed.
Viharo further claims that he "thought [he] was also editing anonymously on Wikipedia" (because he was using the name "Tumbleman") but "was outed by Vzaak/Manul on Wikipedia within three days of arrive [sic] on Sheldrake’s article."However, in his first edit on the talkpage of Rupert Sheldrake's article, he linked to his userpage as "Rome Viharo", though he removed his name a minute later.
This is RW's first attempt at posting evidence on Wikipedia. Now that you have begun to post evidence, I believe it is reasonable to expect that you have to include ALL evidence and not just cherry pick which evidence you want to pick.
Let me correct that sentence for you to show you what I mean. With evidence. See below. Let's see how RW addresses the full context of the evidence. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Full context of facts on Wikipedia regarding outing, harassment
Viharo further claims that he "thought [he] was also editing anonymously on Wikipedia" (because he was using the name "Tumbleman") but "was outed by Vzaak/Manul on Wikipedia within three days of arrive [sic] on Sheldrake’s article. "However, in his first edit on the talkpage of Rupert Sheldrake's article, he linked to his userpage as "Rome Viharo", though he removed his name a minute later. His name was published on Wikipedia talk page for a full 60 seconds after he redacted his name. This means his name was only discoverable in the talk edit history, not the talk page. Additionally, editor Manul archived the entire talk page three hours later, making Manul the only editor to see it. Manul then posted 'Bubblefish/RomeViharo/Tumbleman' We've been had!" to both the Sheldrake talk page on Wikipedia, Tumbleman's page, and Manul's page on Wikipedia as well. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Viharo immediately brought into dispute resolution. Viharo clarified his intentions to Manul that he was not doing OS 012 on Wikipedia and wanted privacy. Manul offered him an olive branch as resolution, which Viharo accepted. Viharo left editing the page for a few weeks and when he came back, Manul was found to continue posting the information of his 'trolling' ways using links from 2006 and off wiki comments to other editors, seeking to gain a consensus that he was trolling wikipedia. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- Manul/Vzaak's editing history on Wikipedia. Look at it when they arrived in July until when I joined the article in October. Anyone can see that this is a single purpose account, making bold edits and changes, with a history of complaints and solely editing Sheldrake or Skeptic related articles. Is it unreasonable to assert that Vzaak/Manul is an editor with a 'skeptic point of view' agenda, right or wrong? 104.175.42.84 (talk) 01:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Advice from Tim Farley
"It is clear to me, if only from his extreme verbosity, that this guy is just a troll trying to soak up as much of everyone's time as possible. Every comment elicits a gigantic reply from him, no issue is too small for him to write thousands of words on it. Do not let him waste your time, he's not worth the trouble. He's been angry for years that the top result in Google for his own name is the RationalWiki article about him, so he's just trying to annoy/aggravate/rile the editors. Don't fall for it." [4] Leuders (talk) 02:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- Oh sure - that's it. Just ignore the evidence I post on Wikipedia. If you ignore it, you don't respond to it and if I'm a troll, it doesn't deserve a thoughtful response. If I stand up to the harassment and respond to it with evidence, I'm trolling. Keep touting the party line. That's dishonesty. Any rational person can see that. This is called propaganda and group think. Tim Farley and Rational Wiki are not above being called out for their collaborative harassing behaviors, and trying to trick everyone into thinking I'm a pseudoscientist troll will only last for so long. Pretty soon, you will just have to face the DATA. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 02:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
[edit] Attribution, OS 012
the source for the quote is ↑ Viharo as "Bubblefish" spamming "creativity.net"
How do you know that was me? It says 'Viharo as Bubblefish'. I disclosed where I was bubblefish, and I also disclosed back then that there was more than one bubblefish doing things like that. I dont recall that post, it could have been one of about 5 people I can think of.
This is the problem with failing to attribute OS 012 as a creative work. OS 012 basic on the link the sources you use even say 'the puzzling, shocking, tongue in cheek master meme that keeps spreading whether you believe it or not!' Yet you publish these statements as if I am publishing some scientific or journalistic claim. 104.175.42.84 (talk) 02:56, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- Does the current version of the article fit? oʇɐʇoԀʇɐϽʎzznℲ (talk/stalk) 16:30, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- inb4 not responsible publishing PacWalker 16:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)