Talk:Rome Viharo/Archive1

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[edit] He said, she said

So maybe this article should be a bit less about him trolling Wikipedia and getting banned, and a bit more about his kooky ideas which someone described as "It looks as if someone took a philosophy text book, cut it into lots of tiny little pieces, and then stuck them back together at random." Leuders (talk) 22:43, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Yeah well Rational Wiki has been described as a troll crank site. You've been described as a crank. That's why I love this place, something just needs to be described by anyone and it's a reliable account. RomeViharo (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
It's clear you don't like the guy but many of your sources don't support what your editing here. I'm not seeing anything about him promoting conspiracy theories. The link between him an OS 012 is circumstantial but I support keeping that in. UberRationality (talk) 16:28, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
You got us all wrong, we love the guy. He constantly ranted that there was a conspiracy to advance Susan Gerbic's group or its "agenda" on Wikipedia. Just one example I found [1]. Very loveable in a kooky kind of way. Leuders (talk) 17:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Really? That's a conspiracy theory eh? Lol did you notice that Susan Gerbic has a blog which details their agenda on Wikipedia? Gerbic's group is actually called Guerilla Skepticism on Wikipedia. http://wikipediawehaveaproblem.com/the-battle-begins/#guerilla-skepticism-on-wikipedia-or-just-wikipedia-skepticism RomeViharo (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Gerbic and her group had no involvement with the Sheldrake article, it's only Craig Weiler who keeps claiming otherwise. See Gerbic's latest response http://guerrillaskepticismonwikipedia.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/egg-balancing-and-more-lots-more.html you should contact Gerbic on twitter and apologize to her for spreading deliberate false information about her group. Philips (talk) 16:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] More Tumbleman sockpuppeting

Tumbleman (Rome Viharo) banned on a new sockpuppet "Philosophyfellow" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Tumbleman Debunker (talk) 13:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Internet forums

Are internet forums reliable sources? There's a number of forums which claim Viharo has been creating fake accounts of skeptics such as Jon Donnis of badpsychics fame. Should these be added? Philips (talk) 23:43, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

what? you're worried about reliable sources at this place? You don't need reliable sources here, this is rational wiki. as long as it looks to you to prove what ever it is your thinking, you can use it. RomeViharo (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Rome do an internet search for "Mal Yankton", it seems it is suspected this is one of your latest sock puppets. As you have already used the names Bubblefish, Tumbleman, Fujacko, Gnu Ordure, Forests, PhilosophyFellow, JonDonnis, Eveshi, MU, Ohboychickenagain and 560wasbullied I wouldn't be surprised if Yankton was one of your latest personalities. Philips (talk) 16:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I hope you're just being naively mistaken, because if not you're either delusional or deceptive. I have posted as Bubblefish (as ONE account on ONE forum) or as Tumbleman (as ANOTHER account on ANOTHER forum) EIGHT YEARS AGO. You do realize that people are allowed to use different monikers on different internet forums, right? That's not socking.

[edit] This is not socking. Stop using weasel words

Socking is when you use TWO accounts on ONE forum at the SAME time to make it appear there is support when there isn't. Sorry, haven't done that.

[edit] No evidence I am these accounts, this is deception

I am NOT fujako, ohboychicken again gun order, Forests, JonDonnis, eveshi, MU << have not even heard of most of these names other than fujako and gnu who were on forums I was EIGHT years ago. of course I know ohboychicken again, we actually have been in contact, as other editors whom have been harassed on the sheldrake article. There is absolutely NO evidence I am these accounts. Your evidence is because someone 'suspects' it. then it becomes true. Then you claim to be a skeptic and write a SPOV wiki. That's rich.

[edit] Yes posted on Wikipediocracy and created an account there, so?

I DO admit to being 560wasbullied (how is that a sock again? can you tell me? is there some rule or law that I should have used my real name or something?)

[edit] Philosophy Fellow is me but not a sockpuppet either

and do admit to being Philosophy Fellow. Philosophy Fellow was not a 'sockpuppet'. My other account 'The Tumbleman' was locked. There are no rules on Wikipedia against have more than one account. as a matter of fact, they even give you valid reasons to have more than one account. After I was personally attacked and harassed on Wikipedia and banned - I created the Philosophy Fellow account. That's probably about the most controversial thing I have done. Refer to the link provided to hear my POV on the matter.

[edit] Posting anonymously online is not socking

It's very misleading for you to suggest that any account I have online is socking.

[edit] OMG def NOT Mal Yankton

I'll let you in on a little secret here. Mal Yankton and Paul C. Anagnostopoulos IP's are both from the same location. I know this because (and I can't say who) emailed me both of their IP's because they were posting on one forum). Vzaak and Paul also both simultaneously had access to a unique url from a bubblefish discussion on JREF and shared that url. THere is a connection there. I'm not saying they are all the same person, but they def know each other and they *could* be the same person. How about that? Is that proof? no, but you can use it as proof since I've already 'suspected' it and that should qualify by the standards here. RomeViharo (talk) 18:37, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


You are better looking than Mal Yankton, Forests, Jon Donnis and Eveshi.

[edit] actually, here may be proof Mal and Paul are the same

You decide.

I confess the Mal Yankton might of been me it was only a joke so no hard feelings. I also trolled under the sock puppet names Tyler Snotgern, Eveshi, Forests and S. Alexander Hardison but I can't remember if it was really me because I was drunk lolz. Sorry Rome. Lots of Love Paul. BTW I have more posts than you on the Skeptiko forum [2] VS [3], I have pawned you, you mad bro? Paul C. Anagnostopoulos (talk) 04:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC) <3
Oh I love Jokes. I just only want to take responsibility for mine and not someone elses. I will say though, the Mal Yankton character is funny.RomeViharo (talk) 14:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Why are you following me around the internet? This obsession is kinda creepin' me out

Seriously, is this the life you want?

RomeViharo (talk) 18:28, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] This article is featured in a personal case study on Cyberbullying on Wikipedia

This article was created as an 'attack piece' on me because I engaged in editing an article on Wikipedia. This case study is found here RomeViharo (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with weasel words in lead section

EDIT: My apologies, I mistakenly posted this to the article section by accident. I removed it and am now placing it here. This article reads too 'personal' - is my ex posting here or something? This is very very misleading and your dropping weasel words into the article. This article was written as an 'attack' piece on me after my involvement with 'anonymously' editing an article on Wikipedia for Rupert Sheldrake.

How am I 'known' for trolling the internet? really? is that why everyone here had to go in internet archive to find sources and links? How am I known for promoting pseudoscience? How am I known for spreading conspiracy theories? Previous to the creation of this article, if you wanted to know what I was 'known' for, you just had to do a 'Google' search on my name to see what I was known for.

Nothing you mentioned comes up. No pseudoscience, no conspiracy theories, no 'trolling' bios. Odd that, eh? RomeViharo (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


[edit] Known for trolling, really?

I'm hardly known for this, it's entirely misleading. The only thing I could be known for would be my TEDx talk or perhaps my views on social media/government. More than 10 years ago I might have been known for my creative endeavors in music or filmmaking. My previous work with (what i now call AL 0 1 2) on forums was years ( 7 - 10 years ago!) back, and the only people who know about it were people who were involved in those discussions. I assume those people are here. And it's not established anywhere that it was 'trolling'. The links your using for evidence are so outdated and written 'tongue in cheek', making it appear that this article will find any thing to support the 'SPOV' whatever that means. Whatever it means, to me it certainly does not seem 'rational' or 'empirical'. I was accused of it, yes, but I was also defended just as much. You're also mistaken that I was 'sockpuppeting. All of the links you provide do not even support that, it's just a conjecture your making. I was not fujako, gnu order, etc. Anyone who supported me on those forums was called one of my sockpuppets. If you want to believe that personally, then say it's your belief.

There is ONE source, this one.

Let's use 'critical thinking' here. There is only one piece of evidence that 'Tumbleman' was banned for 'trolling'. Look how many members of the community said I was not trolling. Therefore, the 'claim' that I was trolling was just that, a claim. And since it was the admin who claimed it, he came in, deleted a year long thread and banned me. Look at the community support I had. Do you know how long I was apart of that community for? over a year and a half. do you know how long ago that was, almost NINE years ago. And your 'making it up' that I was fujako and gnu order. That forum did not even accuse me of socking. Those were members of that community. What was the evidence that I was trolling that forum that the admin used to ban me? The same link you found on Internet Archive, my tongue in cheek webpage about the Bubblefish show. that's the one piece of evidence you have for me 'trolling' and being banned. That's it. That's all you got baby. And it's been stretched so out of context that if you're going to be critical, you have to look at ALL the evidence, not just the evidence that supports your point of view.

If you want to attack me on something real - i'll give it to you. Unfortunately, this isn't it. RomeViharo (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] pseudoscience?

My intentions and arguments on the Sheldrake article were very clearly spelled out. I never argued for or against his science, only his lead section. There is no evidence in any of the Wikipedia articles talk section that I was 'promoting' Sheldrake and no evidence anywhere that I 'promote' Sheldrake or pseudoscience. You're using this word 'pseudoscience' as a pejorative and it's ridiculous. I 'defended' Sheldrake as a living person against what I believed were attempts to demean him on his biography on Wikipedia just as others have.

Find ONE piece of evidence showing where I argue for Sheldrake's ideas or promote them? You can't. You can only find evidence of me arguing over what sources say in his biography that are directly related to the lead section of the article. RomeViharo (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] conspiracy theories?? really?

OMG really? Which ones? 911? JFK assassination? Reptilians? What? no? You mean the Guerilla Skepticism on Wikipedia query? Are you kidding me? That's a conspiracy theory? Over the top much? What's so out there about even suspecting they were involved? GSW is actually on Wikipedia, right? And the editors on Sheldrakes page are also clearly avowed skeptics right? Any associations made to Gerbics group were reasonable and I did not initiate the idea, it was passed around on Craig Weiler's blog. And I take them at their word, they are not involved. What's the controversy here? There is no controversy. You've manufactured this.

You're using these claims against me as weasel words and it's deceptive and misleading and HARDLY notable even if true. It' as if you have a 'conspiracy' theory of your own that you want to support. I've already read through a lot of the chit chat on this forum. There are so many paranoid editors here assuming I am behind all sorts of accounts on this forum and elsewhere it's comical.

If you want to attack me - attack me on something I believe in, like my views on social media and government in the TEDx talk. Attack me for suggesting that collective editing could evolve to administer government process. attack me for all my kooky futuristic blog posts. I would be more than happy to defend those and totally honored if you attacked me for those ideas. Telepathy and psi is not my argument nor my interest. AL 0 1 2 should have it's first iteration up soon and you can attack me for that too. RomeViharo (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia issue

I am also requesting that this article contain the link to my rebuttal of this whole affair '[4]. Here is all the evidence with links to support my claims. The charges of 'trolling' Wikipedia and 'sockpuppeting' were trumped up charges and I deny them and provide evidence that is not refutable. If you want to debate me on the evidence, do so. If you want to drop a snarky comment or opinion about the evidence, go for it. I don't expect 'empirical' arguments on Rational Wiki. It's a shame too, because most of the issues you cover here I actually support! I'm a pro science progressive.RomeViharo (talk) 17:09, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

You might be able to get your link after you disclose a list of every account and IP adress you have used to edit Wikipedia. Hipocrite 20:37, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Gee you would think that an encyclopedia article would WANT to include relevant sources and links and not use it as a carrot to get meaningless and personal information out of someone. Oh! that's right, this is Rational Wiki. RomeViharo (talk) 23:42, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Did you miss the point that this is not an encyclopedia? Reading for comprehension, all the cool kids are doin' it! --Kels (talk) 23:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Touche'. It just looks like an online encyclopedia and fools people it's rational. If you were actually interested in critical thinking, critical analysis THEN you would want to include the link. If you were really promoting empiricism, you would actually attempt to refute it. RomeViharo (talk) 01:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

If you bothered to edit any other articles, maybe we would be a bit less hostile, Rome.But since it's clearly you, we're on our guards here.--The Madman (talk) 17:17, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

[edit] When in Rome...

This discussion was moved here from RationalWiki:Saloon bar. WèàšèìòìďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 13:35, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Alleged victim of skeptical cyberbullying, true believer in "O S 0 1 2", and tireless defender of Rupert Sheldrake's quantum nonsense Rome Viharo is now seeking fit partners with lots of free time to engage him in circular philosophical debate at his article's talk page. Leuders (talk) 16:51, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh Leuders - does your absence in talk infer that your not fit? I hope you're able to find some help here, you're going to need it. RomeViharo (talk) 18:01, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
So, man, I looked at your page on you, and, um... dude, seriously, warmed over general semantics? (Or at least that's all I can recognize.) Seriously, if you're going to promote gibberish, you should at least make it gibberish that sort of makes sense. That Sheldrake fellow you like? Total horseshit, but at least it sort of makes sense if you accept Lamarck (which no one important has since Kammerer shot himself) and define "quantum" as "Skinner constant". You? Um... I'd say "yeah, no", but that presumes there's anything there to criticize. You're like the least coherent TED talk ever. EVDebs (talk) 20:59, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh,this ought to be fun.--The Madman (talk) 19:34, 29 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

I'm currently constructing a point-by-point thing in the talk page pointing out his shit, but I have a feeling it won't stop him. I've seen people like him and I know his type do not react well to that sort of thing.--The Madman (talk) 02:35, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

Probably an utter waste of time. "Your points are all invalid because handwave, lol can't anyone refute anything I say." There, I saved you the trouble. See also: User:Conservative --Kels (talk) 03:45, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
At least it's entertaining. I have yet to meet a scientist who doesn't enjoy reading and/or listening to the occasional crank idea (and the fallout afterwards of course). I'm quite partial to it myself, as long as it's in small doses. - GrantC (talk) 03:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
There's a reason WP admins who banned this guy called him a huge "time sink." Enjoy. Leuders (talk) 04:03, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I can see. As he seems to only be focusing on his own page, I'm suggesting one of the admins take action before he gets too cocky and vandalizes it.--The Madman (talk) 11:20, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

Nah, I doubt you'll see any vandalism from Rome. He's more into putting on a big arena-style show and challenging all comers. As he said, he's just warming up... Leuders (talk) 11:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Just ignore him and he'll probably go away. He just wants attention. Don't give him any. --Ray´s Super Fun Hellhole! g͘͡r̸̀a̸̶̡n̶̶͜ţ̡ ̀҉̴̨͡m̀͘͜͢e͡ ̸͟҉̷̢ỳ̸̡̀͞ơ̡̢̡ų̧r̴̀͡͝ ̡҉҉̧̛s̵̕͏̡ǫ̀́͢ų́l̵̕҉ 17:49, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Well you put Rome in Rational Wiki to begin with

You actually think I wanted this attention? I wish wiki's would have those ROFL emoticons, text simply can't express. You guys already gave me the attention. You already had the opportunity to 'ignore' me. It's too late for that. Stopping now just means it will be less time consuming for me. You've written a highly misleading and harassing article on me, design to demean and humiliate me. You're bullies. You're using wiki forums to troll people and hiding behind their infrastructure to do so. Now you're going to get attention for that. RomeViharo (talk) 04:37, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

We do have ROFL emoticons and others. They're over at RationalWiki:Smileys. Just stick the image in as you like. For example, this one may be to your liking. Falldownlaugh.gif Compro01 (talk) 05:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Please refer to the article history ('fossil record') before making sweeping judgements about RationalWiki editors. This page was written by somebody called User:Debunker, who joined the site two months ago & hasn't been seen much since. WēāŝēīōīďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 13:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Probably started out as a personal slapfight originated by some guy who tangled with him on WP, but a Viharo article is definitely missionable given his vocation as a tireless Sheldrake apologist. His crackpot OS12 thing, his record of trolling internet forums, and his wacky 'not even wrong' public pronouncements that Google is conscious because native shamans and talking plants, etc. is just icing on the proverbial cake. Leuders (talk) 16:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I wonder, is there a wiki plugin that could randomly show Rome's posts in a random variety of colours and fonts? Because that would perfectly suit the whole "love child of Ken DeMeyer and Time Cube" riff he's got goin' on. --Kels (talk) 22:10, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Your "Cyberbullying" claims are bullshit, Rome.

Much like Chris-Chan, you believe any and all critcism of you is "CYBERBULLYING!". Let's take a good look at the definition for cyber-bullying, Rome. " Cyberbullying is the use of Information Technology to harm or harass other people in a deliberate, repeated, and hostile manner." We are not harming or harassing you by hosting a page listing what you have done on the internet. We are just listing your questionable actions and commenting about them. We are not saying you are a horrible person who deserves harassment from others. We are not harming you. We are not editing this page to suit your ego. That is all.--The Madman (talk) 19:42, 29 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

What a stupid comparison. Chris-Chan was very obviously a victim of sustained, sadistic and very real cyberbullying. Viharo getting called out on obvious sockpuppeting on Wikipedia is in no way comparable. Why do you insist on bringing up Chris-Chan at every opportunity? --Marlow
Chris-Chan is a proven asshole and major misogynist. Just sayin'. --Ray´s Super Fun Hellhole! g͘͡r̸̀a̸̶̡n̶̶͜ţ̡ ̀҉̴̨͡m̀͘͜͢e͡ ̸͟҉̷̢ỳ̸̡̀͞ơ̡̢̡ų̧r̴̀͡͝ ̡҉҉̧̛s̵̕͏̡ǫ̀́͢ų́l̵̕҉ 17:36, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

(talk) 21:53, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Being accused of sockpuppeting is the actual harassment in question. See how it snowballs? RomeViharo (talk) 01:05, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Getting called out for sockpuppetry != harassment. Given the verdict, we have no reason to assume it's false. --Ray´s Super Fun Hellhole! g͘͡r̸̀a̸̶̡n̶̶͜ţ̡ ̀҉̴̨͡m̀͘͜͢e͡ ̸͟҉̷̢ỳ̸̡̀͞ơ̡̢̡ų̧r̴̀͡͝ ̡҉҉̧̛s̵̕͏̡ǫ̀́͢ų́l̵̕҉ 17:36, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

===Criticisms of me are not cyberbullying, nor are they reasons to sanction me on wikipedia=== so let's get the facts straight. Irrelevant project I worked on 7 - 10 years previously was twisted and used to sanction me away from editing an article on Wikipedia. I was editing wikipedia anonymously. My personal identity was used and it's how it wound up here. Misrepresenting, hounding, and libeling people online is harassment - or cyber bullying. Legally it's the same. it doesn't matter what the outcome is, it's the behavior of the instigator not the reaction of the victim. ===What you're writing about me is misleading=== and that is harmful to me since this shows up in Google search. ===When given the opportunity to correct the mistakes in the article, you don't take them=== So don't tell me you're not harassing me. I dont spread conspiracy theories or promote pseudoscience. those are pejorative descriptions ===If you're gonna have a grudge on someone, just be honest about it===

[edit] If my claims are BULLSHIT then prove it with evidence and empirical arguments

Seriously, the personal attack angle is getting old.RomeViharo (talk) 23:37, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The first step in any case is disclosure. List all accounts and IP addresses you have used to edit Wikipedia. Hipocrite 23:56, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
if I gave you my accounts (I've had three in the course of my life), how could you ever know I gave you all of them? Even your own inquiry is irrational and would prove nothing to either of us. Why don't you try proving what you wrote in your article and try refuting what is in my case study? Or, why don't you reveal who you really are so this is a two way street. Mutual transparency. RomeViharo (talk) 01:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
When you make incomplete disclosure, if such can be proven, you are typically sanctioned. Since my identity isn't relevant to your rampant sockpuppetry, I don't see why disclosure of every account I've used on Wikipedia would be relevant to this case. Hipocrite 01:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] What exactly are you accusing me of here again??

What are you yammering on about here? Hipocrite please make it easy for me to understand you. It sounds like you're inferring some kind of accusation, and I would prefer if you would just step up and tell me exactly what it is your accusing me of. If you think I am going to randomly hand over personal information to some crank editor on Rational Wiki in exchange for linking to my case study in the article on me you've got a warped idea about our relationship and your role in it. RomeViharo (talk) 16:50, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Rome Viharo admits he has sock puppets and likes playing tricks on people but is innocent of other claims

In this post [5] Rome admitted to using a sock puppet on his account Bubblefish and playing tricks:

"hmmm..i think when someone says HEY this is REALLY me - haha i was just using a sock puppet - i dont think that's being dishonest. I think it's being honest while having fun with you all at the same time. In case you all have not noticed, I like playing tricks - but I am very open and transparent about that."

Some of his sock puppets can be found on this bad science forum [6]. So Rome is not as innocent as he claims to be but Mal Yankton and those other sock puppets are not him they are Paul C. Anagnostopoulos as Rome revealed. Danny d (talk) 01:51, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

That's amazing. The self-promotion while pretending to be a third party, the messed up writing style, the belief that people laughing at him helps his cause, the insistence on PROVE ME WRONG, it's almost like looking at Ken DeMeyer's old message board forays. About as convincing, too. --Kels (talk) 02:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] OMG are you high? Is that your big mound of evidence? That's still not sockpuppeting Einstein and you're taking my quote out of context

Let's go over this ONE more TIME. Socking is when you use MORE than ONE account on ONE forum at ONE time to show FALSE support. Call it what you will, but what your linking to is not sockpuppeting. Are you actually going to pull something I say in one conversation and make it mean something else? at least link to the entire discussion thread so people can show how you've taken it out of context. I have a history at Bad science and JREF. If I was such a troll or sock puppet, then why didnt JREF or Bad Forums ban me? Do you have an answer to that Einstein?

[edit] And even if I did 'sock' one account in 2010 - what the hell does that have to do with editing on Wikipedia and how does that make me notable for trolling?

So let's say I did, once, have a sockpuppet on some small insignificant discussion forum years ago. That's an issue because? That's proof of what? That affected the Wikipedia article how?

[edit] Sure I like to play practical jokes...you don't?

Seriously dude, are you actually saying your entire case of me trolling and socking on wikipedia is because I went to bad science forum and pretended I was someone else to show them my TEDx to bust their balls? Do you even know the whole story? If this is your evidence please make my life easy and USE IT because it makes it so much more simple for me to show the world how effective the 'skeptical' activists' at handling evidence.

===I come from a creative writing background, comedy included, here are some more jokes I've done, don't take it personal it's just comedy===

Fifi Bastard

2007 Obama college Footage

Made a fake Morgan Freeman commercial too

Here are some campaign virals I did for Obama in 2008 too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnnDnGKVTZ8

[edit] Seriously, who are you the hall monitor in 5th grade?

Learn to love anonymity online. People can use their real names or monikers. For example, you're hiding behind yours. Why? I dont care. That's your business. They can even use a different name on one forum and a different name on another forum. People in communities joke each other, argue, kid each other, and shockingly, may even play practical jokes on each other too.

People can also PROTECT their anonymity if they want to. For example, if they don't want others to know they are the subject of an article they present, for what ever reasons, people have that right to withhold that information, especially if it's a hostile community. Protecting privacy, and respecting it, is usually considered good form. Catch up! RomeViharo (talk) 04:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Get some real evidence, you're turning all Woo on Rome Viharo and it's making your look ridiculous

I'm not interested in being involved in your little 'woo vs skeptic' argument. All I know is that for skeptics, you totally suck at evidence. RomeViharo (talk) 04:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Refuting Rome's Claims, one by one.

  • The generally accepted definition of sockpuppet is below. Under this definition, He has socked.
An account made on an internet message board, by a person who already has an account, for the purpose of posting more-or-less anonymously.
.
  • GSOW has never edited Sheldrake's article.
  • Rupert Sheldrake's claim do indeed fit the defintion of Psuedoscience.
Pseudoscience is a claim, belief, or practice which is presented as scientific, but does not adhere to a valid scientific method, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, cannot be reliably tested, or otherwise lacks scientific status.

--The Madman (talk) 02:30, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

===LOL that's your refutation? Pretty low standards here, eh?===

Do you know how to even make an empirical argument? You begin by taking my evidence, dissecting it, and exposing the contradiction or fallacy in what I present. that's refuting. You're not refuting. You're leaving your opinion and somehow expecting it to transform into some sort of rational consensus because you wrote it on Rational Wiki. RomeViharo (talk) 17:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry, still no evidence of sockpuppeting with your definition or mine

Can you find one bit of evidence of me socking yet please?

Your name is linked to MU, Eveshi, Forests and Jon Donnis [7] (Craig Weiler knows about it, ask him) I am not saying those are you as they are obviously not but for some reason those names pop up all over the place with you, and Paul C. Anagnostopoulos told me you have a lot of connections so it is likely you are involved with these guys. According to Shen1986 and Paul C. Anagnostopoulos (probably whitedude) [8] you have other sock puppets and impersonations. Both you and Paul were on the JREF together. Perhaps you should send apologies to Donnis, you can easily contact him on twitter or Susan Gerbic. I personally believe you and Craig Weiler are up to something. You are a very clever and good looking man. I loved you in Showdown in Little Tokyo. Arouet costume designer (talk) 05:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
You got all that wrong Paul and all your other socks, all those Eveshi MU Donnis sock accounts belong to Paul C. Anagnostopoulos (yourself), you are mentally ill Paul. We can all see through your many personalities. Rome is innocent, stop trying to cause trouble for people and stir "wars" between believers and skeptics on the internet. Viharo is a legend he has achieved far more ever than you or pseudoskeptics such as Jon Donnis have. Ghoulz (talk) 07:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I see you've begun to sockpuppet on this wiki as well, Rome.--The Madman (talk) 11:28, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

Are you serious? that is your evidence? that my name is 'linked' to them? Will you PLEASE just apply about 10% of the critical thinking you yammer on about on this forum, k? fyi I'm not going to contact anyone. RomeViharo (talk) 14:59, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

The Madman Make sure you're consistent with the rule on accusing me of sockpuppets. #1.) Anyone who supports me, must be a sockpuppet. #2.) Anyone who disagrees with you, must be a sockpuppet. #3.) Any account anyone has is a sockpuppet. As long as you stay consistent, you'll be a fine editor of the skeptical activist movement. Remember, what makes something true is how many times you repeat it and how many times another editor said it on a cranky forum somewhere. learn to make Group Think work for you! RomeViharo (talk) 14:59, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Yawn: You're claims about my banning have already been debunked

This has been debunked

By you. You're already a biased source, being one of the involved parties.--The Madman (talk) 11:24, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

Correct, it has been debunked by me. Using evidence and diffs from Wikipedia. You can challenge it, I welcome that. But to challenge it credibly, you're going to have to use empirical argumentation. I don't think they taught you that here at Rational Wiki. RomeViharo (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Who cares if GSoW never edited the article?

You're not really following this debate are you?

Again, that is your case study. Quit linking to your own works as refutations of my points. That's not going to help you. Use outside,reliable sources and I might take you semi-seriously.--The Madman (talk) 11:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

Yawn - A case study, for it to be a case study, uses references, sources, evidence and argumentation. If you actually read the case study, you would find that. Most importantly, if you want to critique my POV on the subject matter, it's also a primary source for my POV. Secondly, I don't think you understand what 'refute' means. Do you actually think living a poo poo opinion on a forum is a refutation? You have to provide a counter argument, with references, sources and evidence. I know, that means work! It's not as easy as going around just commenting on the first idea that pops into your head, you have to think. RomeViharo (talk) 15:07, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Not interested in defending Sheldrake

but your editor pals had crappy sources to support that argument.

Your sources? Oh,yeah. You don't have any that aren't you.--The Madman (talk) 11:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

If your interested you can go to Sheldrake's talk page for that. I worked on his page as an editor, I dont go wandering around the internet defending sheldrake to some random mo mo on a crank forum. That's what I would call a waste of my time RomeViharo (talk) 15:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Pissed at Me,Rome? Good.

Keep ALL OF YOUR your complaints here.--The Madman (talk) 02:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

[edit] Nah, I'm just getting warmed up with ya!

You're helping me keep the drama alive and being the perfect foil Keep it coming! RomeViharo (talk) 04:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Rome Viharo admits he was a self-proclaimed former "hipster douchebag" but he ended up a legend

New reference found: http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/08/rome_viharo_social_media.php

"Viharo, a self-proclaimed former "hipster douchebag," was on the innovative edge of the music scene in L.A. in the '90s with his band i-SPEAK. The KCRW darlings were a pre-Ozomatli 12-piece who pioneered the infusion of DJ, sequence samples, hip-hop, world music and soul into a live show. After transcending the music biz, Viharo emerged momentarily as an award-winning digital filmmaker before taking another large leap a step ahead of the rest -- making the obvious transition into the social media matrix."

"Handsome and self-assured, Viharo speaks with authority in a digital dialect as he connects the dots between memes and the sacred "plant spirits" of the Peruvian Amazon."

Is This guy a legend or what!! I love this guy. 100% legend.Ghoulz (talk) 07:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

What's not to love, eh? RomeViharo (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

===Handsome and self assured, lol please use that in the article=== At least you'll get one thing right :) RomeViharo (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] People, please...

...don't feed the troll. Rome is agitating about RationalWiki being the first google hit for his name. He's spamming across social media trying to get people to link to the site he's promoting here. The more commotion and attention here, the better for him.

Then how do we get rid of said troll? He won't shut up, won't edit on any pages that aren't related to him, has repeatedly refused to listen to non-empirical arguments and acts like this is all some grand game of his.It's getting quite grating on my nerves.--The Madman (talk) 20:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)The Madman

===I'm sorry, you've already have fed me plenty by writing an attack piece on me===

And if challenging the credibility of your article on me is considered 'trolling' here I would love to know what's considered 'constructive dialogue'.

[edit] So if you want to get rid of me, here are your options

  • You can delete this article.
  • You can keep this article, and even be critical and cranky in your voice, JUST BE CRITICAL of REAL THINGS. As long as you write flat out lies like I am 'known' for spreading conspiracy theories, spreading pseudoscience, and trolling I am going to seek to engage any editor here to defend them and challenge their credibility - because they are lies, meant to humiliate, defame, and demean me. And they were used as punishment against me for editing on a Wikipedia article. You're abusing wiki technology to harass someone. It's the actual definition of Cyber bullying. RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] I love dealing with bullies online and yes will use this to my advantage

You already have eyes on you for this. This is what 'skeptical activism' looks like online and you're making your cause look ridiculous, juvenile, and discredited. RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

You're not helping your case here. Again, see Kevin Martin as a example of how we react to this sort of thing.--The Madman (talk) 00:11, 1 January 2014 (UTC)The Madman

[edit] I may start editing articles here, since this wiki claims to be rational it looks like it needs lots of help getting there

I'm always inspired to help build a rational consensus. RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Notes to Madman Johnson

===[[User:MadmanJohnson|The Madman]] writes: '''"He won't shut up,"'''===

Correct. Either here or on my site, I will continue this for quite some time. RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

===[[User:MadmanJohnson|The Madman]] writes '''"He won't edit on any pages that aren't related to him."''' ===

I just got here. After I clean up my article, I may stick around. Besides, don't I already have a lot of socks here writing articles as it is already? lol RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


[edit] The Madman writes "he has repeatedly refused to listen to non-empirical arguments "

That's cute. You got me there! I do 'read' the 'non - empirical' arguments fine. they just don't make sense, are irrational, misleading, and not consistent with critical thinking or reality. RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] The Madman writes " and he acts like this is all some grand game of his."

Well it didnt start out that way, but it is now :) RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

===[[User:MadmanJohnson|The Madman]] writes: '''It's getting quite grating on my nerves.'''===

learn to love it! RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] It takes two to tango. You've made me a spotlight and now you got it

I figure it's a win win :) RomeViharo (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Outside advice

This is like a car accident. I can't stop reading. But on some level I feel bad for you and want to give you some advice: walk away. Now.

If I were someone with a non-mainstream view who'd had an Encyclopedia Dramatica-type page made about me by my detractors, the last thing I would do is go on there and try to "troll the trolls". You realize you're not only giving them more ammo but also attracting new eyeballs (e.g. mine), right? The first thing I did was google you, and lo and behold, this page is at the top. Go make an about.me page. Work on your theories or something. Find a better outlet. The more you hang around here the bigger the spectacle and the worse you look -- presumably that's why you're not blocked. Just walk away. Janosz (talk) 20:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

apparently you only read the first search return :) I'm assuming your post was genuine here regardless and I appreciate the intention. RomeViharo (talk) 21:10, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Sentence I still find libelous, demeaning, harassing and offensive

1 - where do I support pseudoscience? what is the evidence? I want that removed from the article. what pseudoscience do I support?

2 WHAT CONSPIRACY THEORY? this is a very very slanderous term to me - it is being abused as quite a weasel word with an intent to harm my reputation. I request that it is removed RomeViharo (talk) 16:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


[edit] I am just going to fact check your sources, some of them inaccurate

I welcome the attack on AL 0 1 2. However, by framing it the way you are - and removing key contexts of the story, the article now reads with the intention to harm. So here are a few facts the article should include, if and only if Rational Wiki has the intention of actually being a 'rational' wiki

1.) I would not assume every bubblefish you find promoting back then would be me. others were doing this too. RomeViharo (talk) 16:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

2.) article should mention what the scope of bubblefish actually was doing, which anyone can find here.. By failing to include the theatrical component of what bubblefish was doing - the article on me is misleading readers regarding the intention and scope of al 0 12. by taking bubblefish out of context and words at face value, the article appears to want to paint me as a crank and is using a deceptive technique to do so. You should want to clean that up too, trust me. Its going to give the reader the assumption that the authors of this wiki article are clueless. For example - back then things like 'you have just downloaded OS 012' or 'software for the mind' (i dont remember writing that ever but maybe) those were written very tongue in cheek. By failing to get the joke, you're just turning yourselves into characters in Bubblefish's show and believe me am I going to have fun with that when the time comes. RomeViharo (talk) 16:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

3.) Saying 'viharo' is not above asking money for his idea. a few problems with that. one the link you're using to support it goes back like what 8 years and its stored on internet archive. Considering the negative tone of the over all article, this makes it appear to the reader that I am abusing or exploiting something for financial gain. I've only lost and spent money on developing this so far, so the article implies something that is not true. Also, what's wrong with crowd sourcing or fundraising? Look to the lower left of your screen right now. Note the 'DONATE' button on Rational Wiki. RomeViharo (talk) 16:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

4. THor haraxx guy - other supporters. I don't know that guy and actually reached out to him years ago asking him why he is selling copies of OS 0 1 2 and not giving attribution and never heard anything back. There were a number of people that started spreading the meme through sites and stuff but most of those links are forgotten history. Why is listing someone who did that relevant to who I am? This makes the article read like an association fallacy - its being used to support the idea that I am a crank by associating a crank with me. C'mon guys are you really that desperate to make a point? RomeViharo (talk) 17:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

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