Talk:Stephenie Meyer

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This authors related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be with improvement.

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Can I add this? or is it just rude? "I think that I serve that purpose for some writers, and that’s a good thing. Both Rowling and Meyer, they’re speaking directly to young people. ... The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can’t write worth a darn." Steven King. Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 21:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

The shoe certainly fits. But the purpose of this article was not to highlight that Meyer writes bad books so much as that she writes books filled with crazy. Specifically, far-right, religious type crazy. Shtrominer (talk) 08:38, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Delete

I wondered why we have it, myself. I'm just not ballsy enough, yet, to suggest dumping something. I vote "not on mission statement".Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 22:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I find your use of upper case "d" to be pretentious, and I believe my delete section is better--"Shut up, Brx." 22:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
No. 3: "Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism." Meyer is a Mormon. She wrote a series of books in which a teenage girl meets a creepy stalker a century her senior, chastely courts him for three books, marries him, gets pregnant with his demon spawn on the honeymoon, and nobly opts against abortion despite having to endure vomiting blood and spine-shattering kicks. She may not write completely off-the-rails political columns like Orson Scott Card, but one only need look at her writing to piece together what her ideas are and where she gets them. Perhaps the religious angle could be better covered, though. Shtrominer (talk) 08:18, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
But is that really why she is getting her ideas? Or is she just stuck in a rather girly girly mentality. I've written Twilight at least 3 or 4 times (in gawky, awkward, 13 year old "god i am so depressed at being 13 so i'll write the worst best novel in the world and the world will see my pain - way) in my youth. All of mine sucked as bad as hers. it's called being 13 and a fat outcast. doesn't mean her ideas come from her morman upbrining unless you have some kind of evidence of that.--Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 18:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
This article seems rather pointless, yes, but where does RW draw the line? I mean, the obviously off-mission is scrapped, but exactly who decides what is scrapped?--George (talk) 19:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
This is what I use to answer "delete" vs. "not-delete". are we adding anything of value that you cannot get at wikipedia? If it's snark and humor, insight, a point of view that pushes a logical agenda, etc., i'd always vote "keep". But there was a time when I first started here (just after lenski (sp)) that there was a rush for article creation, and we were in a sense, just trying to have an article on everything. We aren't WP, we don't claim or want to be. so **to me** i figure "is what we are talking about, useful to someone or will they rather go to WP for the info".--Sun mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 19:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I'd agree with the idea of Twilight being the product of Meyer being stuck in the mentality of a moony lovesick 13-year-old girl if what she had written was in any way consistent with the kind of daydreams/fantasies moony lovesick 13-year-old girls entertain. While they certainly dream about falling into the arms of some unattainably perfect, slightly "bad" guy like Edward, how many of them have fantasies that involve getting knocked up with demon spawn at 18 and almost dying because of it? And how many 13-year-olds churning out bad fanfic would resolve a love triangle by having the guy who didn't get the girl "imprint" on said girl's just-born infant daughter?
The books are filled with the influence of Meyer's religious background, from the obvious abstinence and no-aborton-ever messages, to the more subtle like teenage Bella marrying someone decades her senior and Renesmee (Bella and Edward's daughter) being "sealed" "imprinted" to Jacob. Shtrominer (talk) 01:36, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. They are extremely religious books, veiling frequently-made Christian arguments under a thin veneer of metaphor. Definitely keep.--ADtalkModerator 04:15, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
We'll look real smart, bashing a teen romance author. Seriously, though: this isn't the Da Vinci code, and I doubt anybody but us has made these accusations. I find it sad that we have this and that people want to keep this. I can't help but imagine a bunch of bitter high school nerds waxing angry because the girls were reading Twilight instead of talking to them (no, I haven't read them. I heard and am willing to believe that it's literary garbage, but I'm not going to start a pogrom because of that. Certainly not in RationalWiki's mainspace).--"Shut up, Brx." 14:39, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Took me like thirty seconds:[1][2][3][4][5]
Probably about a thousand more.--ADtalkModerator 14:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Not only are the accusations being made elsewhere, I highly doubt anyone here made them before main stream critics were making them. just cause we don't read teen porn that often. It's just a pathatic book. I would not let my daughter read it, until she'd read "Are you there god, it's me Margaret" or "Ring of endless light", or 100's of other books that actually have girls being girls, not shells. That actually show girls attempting to deal with their issues, and not just sorta becomming background pieces to their own story. Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 14:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Well... I wouldn't say none of us had gone after it...--ADtalkModerator 15:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Is this yours? - either way, reading now. I love blogs by people I know.Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:21, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
OK, this is funny. the paragraph quoted in this review sounds like it's directly from Wikipedia. I mean, who talks like this? what bad writing!Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:26, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, that's me. And the writing is terrible. Far worse than you could imagine for such a big hit. It's about the level of most fanfiction.--ADtalkModerator 15:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, her mind is the level of most "fanfiction". I watched quite a few of her interviews around the time it broke about bella being preggers and deciding to give up her life for the baby (or so she thinks...ohhhh, ahh...). Anyhow, meyers talks like her charaters think. She hasn't moved beyond that very basic highschool clique, i didn't fit in, mentality. You listen to her talk about the "choice" bella makes, and her defense of it, and it's so very "talking point" esque. so "unconsidered". This is a woman who likely has never eally said "what is the meaning of life, or my life". Who has never sat under the night sky and said "my god, I'm an ant. I'm less than an ant, yet I'm also the center of the universe". who has never wondered if food from outter mongolia would be tasty. And that's sad. It shows in her own interviews. It shows in her characters.
For a comparison, check out a book called "sucks to be me". It's no great novel, it will not win a Newbery. But it's everything "Twilight" isn't. Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:54, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

[edit] delete

Maybe fun space, although I the more I look at fun space, the less fun I think it is.--"Shut up, Brx." 22:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

[edit] keep

  1. Pushing Mormon non-abortion and abstinence values on kids in a sneaky way? I'd say keep if that's the aspect that's played up in the article. --The Emperor Kneel before Zod! 20:07, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
  2. I vote keep for the same reason as stated above. --Danfly (talk) 20:16, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
  3. Keep.--ADtalkModerator 04:16, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
  4. A reasonable article. Picon small.pngAcer Blue 04:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
  5. Agree with Palpatine. Тytalk 13:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
  6. I'm erring on the side of keep for this one. ADK...I'll revolve your exhaust pipe! 13:27, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
  7. These books have sold 100 million copies, read by young kids. Keep. — Unsigned, by: Mectrixctic / talk / contribs
  8. (I'm a couple months late in adding my opinion but) Glorifying domestic abuse and making people believe that it's the pinnacle of romanticism, think that qualifies as a crank idea --Sammygirl (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

[edit] delete

  1. --"Shut up, Brx." 22:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
  2. --ceradon 18:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Ha, ha, you guys can't come up with reasons!

[edit] "pro choice rhetoric"

Just thought I'd point out that "pro choice" means that people are free to choose. Specifically they can choose not to have an abortion. Now, I haven't read it in detail (more precisely, I haven't read it on Reasoning With Vampires yet) but if the protagonist declines an abortion and chooses to carry a baby, that's pretty pro-choice. It doesn't mean you must have the abortion in all circumstances, even if it put you in harms way. That's the choice. The quote from Meyer is actually correct, you shouldn't put limits on people based on ideology, it's a rightful reaction to "feminism" that is prescriptive and limiting. ADK...I'll orate your earlobe! 13:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it's less that it isn't "pro choice' (which you're right, that's a mis nomer for any individual making an actual choice), but that it glorifies her sacrifice as the "right thing to do", and "look how much move **i** did than a normal teen mom". I'm not saying it was "pro life", but i'm saying it gave me the uber willies out of context. I hate teh serries, though, cause it's a very dis-empowering view for women. She is a bimbo who revolves her life around the "hot" guy, and has nothing truely there as a human. It's very needy; it's very non contemplative; it's very weak teen girl who is comfortable letting everyone around her tell the story. And that bothered me from the first. She is a shadow. without personality of her own. so that she sacrifices herself for her child isn't really out of character. Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 14:51, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I do agree. Considering her character motivation seems nothing more than "EDWARD IS SOOOOOOOOOOOO PRETTY!!!!11" to call it empowering would be wide of the mark. I'm just unsure whether the whole context makes it a pro-life screed as for that you'd expect certain things to crop up. ADK...I'll accentuate your chromosome! 15:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I like Meyer's quoted defense - it's reasonable. I think the main attack comes from the fact, though, that while others urge Bella to have an abortion, she refuses to even consider it, even though she is literally being killed by the baby. To me, this is a valid choice, but many consider the prospect of a mother choosing her unborn child over herself as an inherent rejection of the pro-choice agenda.--ADtalkModerator 15:08, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, cept it's not a valid choice if you don't even "consider" it. Maybe that's what bugged me. well, one of many many many many bs things about bella. She just said "no, i'm keeping it". No woman/girl in her right mind should EVERY say that. She should actually think about it, talk about it, etc. She did not make an informed decision. which again, is telling about her entire character. I don't care what you choose, when you've considered all your options. I care that you don't actually consider them.Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:18, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
And don't get me wrong. I don't think books, fiction - teen or otherwise - is there to guide young minds into some... "thing" that is better than they were before they read it. But it is a hugely successful book, and i would love mothers to say to their daughters, "ok, what did you think of bella, and why?"Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:19, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's brought up to her, but she rejects it. To me, that's pretty pro-choice, regardless of whether or not she considers it as something she would ever do. My wife and I are both pro-choice, but if she gets pregnant, we wouldn't consider aborting it, either. You can support the availability of choice without being willing to take one of the options, and that's something I think Meyer does pretty okay.--ADtalkModerator 15:26, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I would disagree that she "does it pretty ok", but again, books are not there to teach or make people think. especially this drivel. Pink mowse.pngEn attendant Godot 15:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
There's an argument to be made that Juno is a pro-choice movie because it depicts someone exercising her right to choose. "Choice," of course, is not synonymous with "abortion." What makes the Twilight series inconsistent with the pro-choice viewpoint, though, is not that Bella won't consider abortion at all, but that her situation is so extreme. It's not just your average unintended pregnancy, but life or death, and that places Bella and her decision not to have an abortion on a moral pedestal. She isn't depicted as simply exercising her right to choose, but as making a heroic sacrifice, and the implicit message there is, "no matter how hard it gets, abortion is never the answer." Shtrominer (talk) 08:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
+1. Though I always get a chuckle when Blood Libels loves the movie while most of the actors involved were feminists. Osaka Sun (talk) 02:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


[edit] Bad Science

I think a section on Meyer's portrayal of vampire evolution is warranted. Yes, suspension of disbelief is normally assumed when we discuss vampires. However, Meyer sincerely believes and suggests throughout the books that her vampires are scientifically plausible beings who could have evolved naturally. This separates her from other fantasy and horror writers who use vampires and know that they are dealing with myth. It is a CRAZY idea which deserves some ridicule. Jonee (talk) 03:58, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Though in the realm of the Twilight universe, we see that vampires exist, therefore they must have evolved given the rules of that universe. That we don't see vampires in our own reality shows that they didn't (or can't) evolve under our rules. Most of the things presented as plausible and realistic in science-fiction like Star Trek are the same, but wouldn't warrant a section refuting it, because it's not really worthwhile nor does it accomplish anything. Now, if Meyer was an out-and-out creationist and was pushing it in the book (as she does with the Mormonism, if you choose to read Bella's doormat-like attributes that way) it would be warranted. Scarlet A.pngpatheticModerator 01:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
In Star Trek, we normally see wild, but sometimes informed, speculation as to the future development of science. We also see outright fantasy and devices existing solely for plot purposes, like universal translators and inertial dampeners. All of this is just science fiction. However, when we see a gross misrepresentation of real world scientific theory, as when individual organisms like Tom Parris and Harry Kim "evolve" into a species humans are somehow destined to become, I think this is a legitimate subject of criticism, even if it's a low priority. I think this is what we have here and I think it's even more worthy of criticism in a work with so little redeeming value and yet with such a fanatical following. Is it really not worth a little snark when the same author says a trait developed as a mechanism to attract prey and then notes that the exact same trait almost universally repels prey? Jonee Chit chat 05:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
We did mention the absurdity of the vampire/human hybrid. But otherwise it's just poking at a stick. How many evolution quotes were there in the books? Osaka Sun (talk) 06:19, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
I can't give you an exact number off to top of my head. Maybe two or three explicit, a dozen or so implicit, over the five books. There's more in a few interviews I can cite. Look, I don't think Stephenie Meyer is a relevant threat to the evolutionary consensus. I just think it's another example of how stunningly ill-conceived her universe is and I don't see what's so wrong with mentioning it. I think it's funny and I think it's a good example of Meyer's general irrationality. Jonee (talk) 06:37, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
A quick run through Google suggests it's just one throwaway comment to the effect of "maybe vampires evolved, maybe they didn't, who knows". It's not worth attacking in the slightest. Scarlet A.pnggnosticModerator 02:01, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
I"m totally confused. So should we add a section to Harry Potter, cause the non muggles are assumed to have evolved alongside the muggles? are we supposed to discount X men, which EXPLICITLY states that the next step in human evolution is - whatever xmen are? Green mowse.pngGodot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans 04:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Well I have found material about evolution connected with Harry Potter. There's a controversial evolutionary theory proposed by a certain Hambledon Quince. Should we include Hambledon Quince in the Harry Potter article? I'm not sure. I am sure Godot should at least make an effort to be tactful when other users are trying to give helpful suggestions and improve the wiki. Proxima Centauri (talk) 17:16, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I dispute the addition of the paedophilia category as although Bella is a lot younger than Edward, she's still a grown woman. Jacob "imprinting" on Renesmee just means that he loves her like a little sister although admittedly, he will full in love with her eventually but only when she's a grown woman. That's still creepy but it's not the "P-Word." I realise that Twilight is a dreadful series but really, that's not a word that should be used lightly. --Let Them Eat Cake (talk) 16:11, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

It'd be different if Renesmee were an alien/elf/whatever who looked like a human child but was an adult by the biological standards of her species. However, she's partially human, so even though she's basically born with an adult mind and matures at an accelerated rate, human mores about what is and is not an appropriate relationship (whether actual or expected down the line) with someone her age arguably still apply. I wouldn't have an issue applying the "p-word" category to an article about the Twilight series based on the "imprinting" plot element, but since this is nominally an article about Stephenie Meyer herself, I don't think it's appropriate. Shtrominer (talk) 15:41, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
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