Talk:The American Dream (film)
I am confused both by this entire post and in particular, it's inaccuracies which I tried to fix, but continue to get changed back. First off, it's fine if you disagree with the 95%+ positive reviews this film gets over millions and millions of views on you tube and other sources. I am assuming the authors of this review have never seen South Park or must hate that as well???
That is ultimately fine, but what is less fine is you allow people to start throwing around the film somehow promoting anti-semitism? I thought this was "rational" wiki? How does one guy's op-ed article stand as reference for anti-semitism? It's not rational or factual whether you like or hate the film to start..
There is a big difference between snarky dissent and trolling.. — Unsigned, by: 66.68.77.31 / talk / contribs
- Ok, Look at this page from the film's website. Do you see how lines like "Bauer choose the old symbol of his ancestors, a hexagram red shield, and changed his name to Rothschild ("Red Shield"). Symbolically, the Red Shield character represents the cartel of the global banking elite and the secrets of the Federal reserve." promote the idea of an international Jewish conspiracy?
- Edit: Also, please sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes TiaC (talk) 23:20, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Not really.. It doesn't promote it anymore than using Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan or any other massive powerhouse as a foil to explain how the modernized global banking machine rose and works... The idea that because you use Rothschild as a representational foil means you are anti-semetic is ridiculous... I think the film is an equal opportunity critic, the idea that someone is off limits to criticism or satire because they are of a certain descent and work in a certain industry is kind of silly. Also because someone or some people who are anti-semites say something or use something as a focal point of their misguided world view does not mean that that focal point is now off limits because its further critique means you are backing anti-semitism...C'mon — Unsigned, by: 66.68.77.31 / talk / contribs
- Even setting aside the racial issues, it's a conspiracy theory relying on dubious economics. I suggest you go read our pages on the Rothschilds, Fractional-reserve banking and The Fed. TiaC (talk) 00:15, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Hold on, that is the entire point of contention here, the so called "racial issues" or really accusations of them... You don't like Austrian economics, you think Fractional reserve lending is great.. but if someone disagrees then it means they don't like Jews?! What kind of rational is that???? BTW, just because someone wrote a page on a topic on rational wiki doesn't mean it's correct or representative of reality... It's just kind of crazy given that this site says how factually sound it is yet it so easily allows misinformation and conjecture as its support? — Unsigned, by: 66.68.77.31 / talk / contribs
- Conspiracy theories about the Rothschilds controlling the world via a hidden banking monopoly are widely noted as an antisemitic canard. See the Wikipedia article on antisemitic canard #Accusations of controlling the world financial system. It may be possible to hold such views without being an antisemeite - in the same way that it may be possible to doubt President Obama's US citizenship without being a massive racist - but there's enough of a common correlation to raise eyebrows, especially when you throw in tropes familiar from anti-Jewish propaganda like the greedy octopus imagery (see elsewhere in the same Wikipedia article).
- And none of your comments explain why you keep removing a paragraph about Alex Jones liking this animation. Ŵêâŝêîôîď
Methinks it is a Weasel 01:37, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, unlike your "Obama not having US citizenship point", The Rothschild's did in fact build a significant part of the basis for modern banking, government lending and the global information trade. Many legitimate agencies discuss this, such as this Business Insider article, http://www.businessinsider.com/the-early-rothschilds-built-a-fortune-2014-8?op=1 There is a vast amount of historical fact about their very significant influence on global banking and many legitimate discussions on the topic. They did infact play a KEY role in the evolution of banking. Bringing up the Rothschild's doesn't link to anti-semitism and is not even close to the same thing as the Obama Birth place issue, which has a very limited concrete information basis. It's a poor comparison. There is zero doubt that the Rothschild's did build a global finance juggernaut, I don't know of any place that it's disputed that this is the case. You are saying that referencing this historical fact raises eyebrows of anti-semitism? How is that? Because some actual anti-semites have brought up this fact for their mis-guided end? That isn't really a fair and founded argument. The octopus imagery you mention is also a weak connection, the machine that is pictured in the film and on it's website does have tentacles with tools on the end, it's not an octopus and even if it was the idea is to convey sprawling influence, hence why tentacled creatures are frequently used for conveying the same notion ... Is the US global surveillance rocket also anti-semetic? See here, it's logo as pointed out in the following Forbes article is actually an octopus.. Are tentacles off limits too? http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/12/05/u-s-spy-rocket-launching-today-has-octopus-themed-nothing-is-beyond-our-reach-logo-seriously/ I was actually taking off the part that references "the good guys section" on the website, which isn't there and had no proper footnoting. The link to Alex Jones liking the film is fine as that is indeed the case. I don't think links like the one made by referencing unknown blog posts to bring full circle a conspiracy theory about an animated satire being stealth anti-semitism belong on a site that claims to be so into debunking links it claims are weak and built on conspiracy theory. — Unsigned, by: 66.68.77.31 / talk / contribs