User talk:Milesmcstylez
Stop reverting and discuss on the talk page. Hipocrite 21:53, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
I used to visit this site fairly often, and left off for a couple years. I enjoyed the combination of unapologetic facts mixed with just the right amount of snark. I was not thrilled to return recently to see both have seemingly been replaced with an excess of political correctness and cultural relativism. --Milesmcstylez (talk) 22:01, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- So then you were being ironic when you wrote "this is also RATIONALwiki" Hipocrite 22:03, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- I think part of being rational means avoiding double standards. Mercilessly criticizing all religions except one, which is given a pass, does not strike me as rational. I realize there are a good number of atheists who take criticism of Islam to some fairly dark places (hello Ayaan Hirsi Ali) but rather than trying to strike a balance between anti-theism and accommodationism this site seems to have doubled down on the latter.--Milesmcstylez (talk) 22:53, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think you "used to visit this site fairly often." Hipocrite (talk) 12:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- Who knows, maybe he/she did it with a different standard from what you would consider "fairly often" (maybe like... a few articles read per week for a few months?), which is a subjective description, and only really read anything to do with atheism and Christianity, because of this apparent interest in anti-theism. This was a pointless thing for him/her to tell us and a pointless thing for me/you to question or care about. Nullahnung (talk) 12:36, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think you "used to visit this site fairly often." Hipocrite (talk) 12:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- It was actually the anti-science/woo refutations that I found this site the most useful for, though I would also use it as a point of reference when dealing with christian/muslim apologists. I recall it as being pretty evenly harsh across the board, which when I returned to the site this week was emphatically not the case.--Milesmcstylez (talk) 16:48, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
[edit] Not actually a double standard
This site intensely CRITICISES Christian beliefs and things Christians do, but that doesn't mean we start being Christianophobic, which I imagine is also a thing that's out there (particularly among some cultural extremists in Europe, and people like Varg Vikernes, but we don't have an article about Christianophobia yet because it's not a popular term yet... and also nobody could be bothered to write one yet).
We are not against criticising Muslim beliefs and things Muslims do, but we do not condone Islamophobia, just like we would not condone "Christianophobia" (in quote marks, because I've just thought this term up). Nullahnung (talk) 23:18, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- "Christianophobia" is not really a common term, but "Persecution of Christians" is a term that gets thrown around a LOT. While there are bona fide cases of persecution of Christians in the world today, a hell of a lot of the time you hear about "Persecution of Christians" it's being used by Christians to describe people saying things they don't like. If you were to ask anyone at, say, Conservapedia, if RW persecuted Christians, you would almost certainly get a resounding yes. Islamophobia likewise exists, but the term is also used very often to describe any and all unwelcome criticism of Islam. This website doesnt have an article about persecution of christians, but it does talk about a christian persecution complex. If Islamophobia was discussed with as much skepticism as the Persecution of Christians, I would be content — Unsigned, by: Milesmcstylez / talk / contribs
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- I was talking about Christianophobia, though, not "persecution of Christians", which appears to be something different. Christianophobia (an analogous term to Islamophobia, that I've made up) is when some Pagan extremist goes on a long rant about how Christianity is the vilest thing on this world and prompts people to kill each other as well as ruins cultures, societies and nations, "Christianity is inherently a violent religion" and other bullshit like that. Similarly, I've seen people go "Islam is the vilest thing, it makes people kill each other as well as ruins the minds of the young and is inherently just a violent religion", which is not much different to me than some cultural extremist in Europe going on about Christianity. Nullahnung (talk) 23:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
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What proponents of Islamophobia and Persecution of Christians have in common is that they never seem to delineate where legitimate criticism stops and Islamophobia/Persecution of Christians begins. It seems as though, on this wiki, "The Bible contains many violent doctrines" is legitimate criticism, while "The Qur'an contains many violent doctrines" is Islamophobia. "Catholicism is sexist for not allowing female priests" = valid criticism, but "Sunni Islam is sexist for only allowing women to inherit half of a male inheritance" = racist Islamophobia. Unabashedly condemning Christian dogmatism while pussyfooting around Islamic dogmatism is the epitome of a double standard.--Milesmcstylez (talk) 23:58, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, so the Qu'ran may contain violence, just like the Bible contains violence, sure. And a lot of practices in the name of Islam are sexist, sure. Can you actually point out where, specifically, RW denied any of that?
- (In fact, instead of denying any of that, RW outright points this stuff out here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Islamophobia#Islamophobia_versus_criticism_of_Islam) Nullahnung (talk) 00:06, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- That discussion is pretty promptly undercut by calling Sam Harris a racist. The disagreement section of that article reads more like "Some people don't think all criticism of Islam is racist, and here is why those stupid people are wrong" Coupled with the introductory paragraphs slant (which was even worse before I added the bit about snarl word) The article in general comes across as something that belongs on Islamophobia Watch rather that RW. There are some RW articles where the author's balls didn't drop off at the first mention of Islam, such as Jesus and Mo --Milesmcstylez (talk) 00:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- I agree that that section is not really cohesive in what it is trying to say... it needs a rewrite and elaboration of the point that valid criticism of Islam is not the same as Islamophobia, as well as expansion with details. Nullahnung (talk) 00:46, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- That discussion is pretty promptly undercut by calling Sam Harris a racist. The disagreement section of that article reads more like "Some people don't think all criticism of Islam is racist, and here is why those stupid people are wrong" Coupled with the introductory paragraphs slant (which was even worse before I added the bit about snarl word) The article in general comes across as something that belongs on Islamophobia Watch rather that RW. There are some RW articles where the author's balls didn't drop off at the first mention of Islam, such as Jesus and Mo --Milesmcstylez (talk) 00:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- I vote we try to hash something out in the talk section before putting it into the main article. I'll start a new section and we can go from there.Milesmcstylez (talk) 01:03, 16 May 2014 (UTC)