RationalWiki:Saloon bar

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Saloon bar
WIGO Bar colour.png

Welcome, BoN
This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Spit.gif For previous conversations, see the automagic barchives.Winoes.gif

What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

Pointless poll

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?

14

Vote

?

14

Vote

?

15

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Spicy food, yay or nay?

Spice is nice!

49

Vote

Can't handle heat, must avoid at all costs.

11

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Should Azureality be the site mascot?

Heck yeah!

39

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That thing is so cool, I love it!

2

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Needs more goat

15

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What am I looking at, and whose hairbrained idea was it to make a frickin' Pokémon our mascot?!?

73

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Who is the better rapper?

Tupac Shakur

21

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Biggie Smalls

16

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Both are equally great

19

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MC Goat

40

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To do list

Bartop revamp (sticky)

There's talk of clearing up some of the clutter at the top of this page. See discussion here. WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 10:23, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Things you can see walking home in Cork

I'm used to seeing burnt out cars, dog shit, and the usual bits of Cork that don't often get mentioned in the tourist board adverts, but yesterday was a new one. The travelers have a nice little campsite nearby, so of course that means we have horses running loose all over the place. I was wandering through one of the local estates and came across a heavily pregnant dead horse, with a few knacker kids playing around it. I suppose every city has its shitty areas, but Cork has a rather unique one. Still, I suppose it's better than some parts of Islington in the late 80s. ConcernedResident Fightin' round the world 11:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

What's a knacker kid? MDB (talk) 11:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Knacker is a mildly offensive term for travellers. Around here it's most commonly used in conjunction with phrases ending with "broke in to my car", "stole my garden gate", "nicked the radiators" or "are beating their animals again". ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 12:00, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
A beautiful sight of nature... Scarlet A.pngsshole 12:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
As I have always lived in inner-city shitholes, I have never seen a bunch of scrotes playing around a dead horse (pregnant or otherwise). Oh what joy to have a taste of the countryside that must have been. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 14:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I was out this evening and saw three gypsy teens walking about the town. These two girls and one guy, all about 15/16. The girls were dressed up, as my friend put it, like "half naked fluorescent pens" with their tits hanging out. Not a pleasant sight. SJ Debaser 23:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Whoa. A whole lot of bigotry is going on here. I hail from the itenerant community and would appreciate it if such offensively racist comments were disregarded in future. 86.40.107.167 (talk) 23:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
What're you on about you idiot? DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 02:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I think you're confusing tinkers with wankers, Marcus,  Lily Inspirate me. 09:16, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Erm... how exactly do travellers count as a race? JonnoHurl Abuse Here 01:08, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I suppose in the same way blacks and whites are somehow considered different races. Doesn't make much sense. They're definitely a very distinct culture but certainly not a different race. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 08:24, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Sumbliminal messages

http://sub-lim.blogspot.com/ I'm not sure what this is getting at - it's some good ideas about subliminal imaging and suggestion, but seems to be applied mostly in a bullshit manner (for instance, there's no evidence that flashing words on a screen actually works, I'm pretty sure it's been tested). Some of the videos are interesting, but this guy is either A) faking it with photoshop (nice try with the "but I do it in person so it can't be faked") or B) getting shafted by extreme pareidolia. Also, a little obsessed with Harry Potter and satanism, there. Scarlet A.pngsshole 14:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I've read about a test that was done some decades ago. A TV station announced "we're going to put a subliminal message in our broadcast at time X. Please report to us any urges you had afterwards." People reported all sorts of urges to do various things... but none of them actually reported the urge to do what the message suggested. MDB (talk) 14:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
The only thing he proves is that the human mind is good at seeing things where there are none (and that he's obsessed with a certain word). It's also hilarious how he tries to prove his point with these three images, which were designed to show that, yes, you will see it if you want to see it. -- Nx / talk 14:59, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Bush subliminal.jpg

This has got to be a Poe. -- Nx / talk 15:12, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Generally, Ideas Vary Enormously. Moreover, Everytime You Overtly Underestimate Real Messages One Nearly Encapsulates You. DickTurpis (talk) 15:22, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why, but I suddenly feel like I have to give you my money! Hahaha that was clever of you. Stilldeciding (talk) 16:14, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

All of this subliminal stuff relies on the framework that some how things that are not processed consciously can not be evaluated, and that high level semantic processing can occur without conscious awareness. Most of my work is exploring how low level learning processes in animal brains are able to perform a tremendous amount of hypothesis testing before the prefrontal cortex ever becomes involved. However, only certain kinds of highly salient data is processed at this level, and the only semantic processing going on is more about a pass-filter than anything else. Concrete example: the cocktail party problem, there are tons of people talking in a room from all directions, you are focused on only one conversation and are consciously aware of what is being said only in that conversation. What kind of information can your brain process outside of that consciously followed conversation. The first type is highly salient non-semantic information that I focus a lot on, say a loud bang, the smells/tastes of the food and drink in the room, visual processing of the environment, etc. Very sophisticated hypothesis testing can occur with these kinds of stimuli without conscious intervention. The second is semantic information that matches a pre-defined salient pattern. For example, someone saying your name in the periphery. This is the closest thing to the kind of processing that you would need for subliminal messages to work. But it is not like the brain is processing everything coming in at a semantic level. Instead "fast-search algorithms" are merely searching for incoming information that matches a salient semantic pattern and that information comes into consciousness.

Short version: it is woo. tmtoulouse 15:34, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

So, people often see the word "SEX" in noise patterns because they're already sort of looking for it - it matches something they're on the prowl for. Similarly, they'd be more likely to see their own name in noise, right? Also, I suppose it might also be worth point out that these are very small and simple words. "SEX" "OBEY" only 3-4 letters, so you have a higher statistical likelyhood of spotting these in noise. If people picked up "Beelzebub wants you to rape and murder" in noise repeatedly, I'd consider it more than people generically spotting "SEX" written on everything. It's worth pointing out that one of the videos where he goes into Mariah Carey on the cover of Glamour highlights some real effects that magazine editors try to put in - although he may also be reading too much into it and "finding nonsense in the phonebook" as I've heard it said. But that sort of plausible and quite real stuff butters people up for the woo patterns that follow. I notice that we're lacking an article on this stuff. Scarlet A.pngsshole 15:50, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
People are able to "find" even apparently complex subliminal messages in random noise because of the same basic confirmation bias. Remember the Satanist backmasking craze? Some people are still at it, the "Thank You Satan" vid is my favorite recent example. They simply check for any apparent mention of Satan in the reversed recordings, and proceed to interpret the preceding and following sounds as coherent sentences, no matter if they'd be incomprehensible gibberish even if said in a straightforward way. Röstigraben (talk) 16:34, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Some of it is addressed in pattern recognition and things like Electronic voice phenomenon. But yeah subliminal messages would be a good article. tmtoulouse 17:57, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
No discussion of subliminal nonsense would be complete without mention of the old Marlboro "oɹoqןɹɐɯ" myth (just turn the cigarette pack upside down for a badly spelled racist slur).Snopes WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 18:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I can't see it. Is it something "jew"? Which only works with that curved a. The one I heard was that if you look at a Marlboro packet you can see three "K"s, i.e., KKK. Scarlet A.pngsshole 19:00, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, that Snopes entry mentions several myths about various bits of KKK insignia & slogans supposedly hidden in the Marlboro packaging design. The logo lettering, read upside-down, supposedly says "Orobljew" - i.e. a phonetic of "horrible Jew". I can totally see how the "Mar" can be read as "Jew", although it is probably coincidental, but "orobl" is just clutching at straws - in fact it should be "ojoql", which makes even less sense. WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 19:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
And supposedly the tips of the letters b, l and M, when the rest of the word is covered up, represent the dangling legs of a lynched black man and a Jew. WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 19:38, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Is that why I hate the Jew? I could never quite put my finger on it... — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
lol u r orobl WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 19:42, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
DickTurpis... I am overwhelmed by an urge to send you my checking account info. How do I send it to you? The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 15:00, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm. How odd that you would say that! But if you insist, you can just send it through RW email. I'll take care of it from there. That goes for anyone else with similar inexplicable urges. DickTurpis (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Anyone other Brits seen the Sun today?

Like, totally!

Funny, but somewhat racist? SJ Debaser 14:55, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure it'll drive down their US circulation horribly - David Gerard (talk) 14:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
You obviously don't know the Sun if you think that the headline they've posted today is racist. Try their headline for Euro '96: "Let's Blitz Fritz".
In what way could that even possibly be considered 'racist', Josh? DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 07:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Flickr

T'other ½ went to Retford earlier today & brought back raspberries, strawberries, pork pie, stichlton[sp?] cheese, free range eggs and 150 photos which I've put onto Flickr. So far I've had 97 views - an all time record for one day for me. (Dunno if [this] is a viable link to my stats.) (tisn't)

The fire brigade & the environment agency were running an exercise to clean up a (pretend) oil spill on the canal. */Excellent timing: gulf next stop!/* Loads o'piccies of them at work. 18:37, 12 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

What's this? Ladylads! Where are the promised eggs to help me imagine breakfast when me chickens ripen! Lumenos (talk) 20:27, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

PS: That cheese: its an unpasteurised version of stilton: they can't call it stilton 'cause it's unpasteurised. SusanG Toast

Sod cheese. You have a Wimpy!. I haven't seen one of those for years. By the way, the stats link doesn't work.ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 20:18, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
The Wimpy's shut I'm told & has been for a good while! Thought the stats link might need my cookie to work. deleting it ... (now @ 151!) 20:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Shame. Nice hamburgers, and seeing "Bender in a Bun" on the menu always made me smile. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 20:30, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I once (in, I think, 1980) spent an entire night in the Sheffield Wimpy. On my own because I'd nowhere to go after stomping out after a spat at 11:30. The did froffy coffee before Starbucks were invented. (now there's a thought: we used to go to "coffee bars" back in the 60s and drink cappucinos and put the world to rights without alcohol [El Mambo on Union Street! - long gone!]) 20:39, 12 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
yeah, it's a bit odd. I've been realising recently how difficult it can be to go out for a night and not end up drinking. Mind you, there's not a massive amount of entertainment here, unless pubs are the beginning and end of entertainment, and I had to stop going to clubs because I don't think people appreciated my laughing at their dancing. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 20:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Nice photos. Those guys are almost doing Proper Fucking Booming too. Scarlet A.pngsshole 21:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Peaked at 180 views. 03:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Poor baby. Here I am, drawing my heart out, and my sketch blog's averaging only 11 a day. --Kels (talk) 05:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, but you're blessed (cursed?) with talent, Kels. Those of us without any have to rely on acts of gOD and the fire service. 06:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
And you mock a little game of footie as trivial... 1:1, by the way, Empire vs. Upstarts. ħumanUser talk:Human 09:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't mock anything as stoopid (not trivial: stoooooopid!) as footy, I just despise organised spectator sport of any kind. People living vicariously through "their" teams ought to GET A FUCKING LIFE. (I also ought to get a life but that's another story.) 09:14, 13 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
You might recognize the sentiment of a stand-up routine I once saw (can't remember the name so probably won't be able to find it again easily) where this guy was ripping into geeks and nerds about how they obsess over things and memorize totally stupid things; and then he basically said "so, those sports fans, obsessing over league results and memorizing score lines and player names...". Of course, I have nothing against geekery, just that when it comes to sports, people should just openly admit that they're particularly nerdy about it. Scarlet A.pngsshole 00:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Relevant link courtesy The Onion. DickTurpis (talk) 22:17, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
It's nice to see the Onion, at least, were willing to be funny as hell so soon after 9/11 (especially working backwards through the "news" links). I hated when we weren't allowed to make jokes. ħumanUser talk:Human 01:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Kels, your site is pretty good. I pop in every now and then to see the images and animations, and it pushes me a little to try to draw people without them ending up looking like terminators with rickets. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 01:14, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

England currently playing

Not that I'm into soccer but after Andy's comments I had to watch in the hope of seeing a 6-0 drubbing. In the meantime however have managed to find my own lulz. England scores, the cameras scan the crowd and manage to fix on the England fan in the crowd wearing what looked like a monkey mask. Just wonderful, I think, England's fans yet again never fail to capitalise on the racist imagery. Then the camera pulled in closer and it turned out to be a Prince Charles mask…whoops!--Stunteddwarf Spirit of the Cherry Blossom 18:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm torn on what to do now. On one hand, you officially have to jeer about this to be allowed to call yourself Scottish. On the other hand, Andy is being so monitor-punchingly arrogant about this that I want to show solidarity against him. And I don't even like football. MARCVS ANTONIVS 08:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
just BTW, has anyone else noticed a correlation between bull terrier ownership & flag display, or is it just Worksop? 09:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
I note a general correlation between ownership of nasty looking dogs and many things, not least of all the a wardrobe consisting almost entirely of track suits. Seems to be a fairly universal sign of enhanced machismo. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 13:23, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Vacuum of Space?

This is another of my many questions that could be answered by a google serch, but I have no idea what terms to use. I was wondering: who figured out there's no air in space? And when?--Mustex (talk) 22:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Good question actually. I might look for it. Scratchchin.gif Scarlet A.pngsshole 22:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
I found the answer pretty much straight away. Hint: I looked it up where you look things up - David Gerard (talk) 22:43, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Not knowing what search terms to use is tricky, but you'd be surprised how good Google is when you just ask it something very, very blunt - this is how I discovered the correct term for semantic saturation. You'll find that such questions have probably been asked on the internet before, hence Yahoo! Answers tends to have some solutions, although they're all a bit crap on this one. It seems that it was first theorised to trail off to a low pressure because air has weight, but sea level pressure isn't infinite; so there must be a finite quantity pushing down on us. Scarlet A.pngsshole 22:47, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
What I did was go to Wikipedia on space, which pointed me to their article on outer space, which has the answer right there. (17th century, various physicists noticing air pressure dropped with height, Otto von Guericke as first to hypothesise a vacuum up there.) - David Gerard (talk) 22:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Nonsense. You can't vacuum where there is no air. --Alienfromspace (talk) 08:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Pascal did some stuff on atmospheric pressure, though I'm not sure if he actually postulated a vacuum. MARCVS ANTONIVS 08:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
No, but he did postulate a lawn mower. --Alienfromspace (talk) 08:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Space being composed of vacuum and there being no air in space isn't quite the same thing. Wasn't it Pascal who finally killed off the idea that space was filled with æther?--Stunteddwarf Spirit of the Cherry Blossom 14:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Coupla centuries later. Michelson-Morley and Occam's razor - David Gerard (talk) 14:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
It's not so much as aether being what fills space, but something that is space in order for the concept of absolute position and motion to work. Scarlet A.pngsshole 14:28, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Dem's the people, although I was thinking Planck, wrote Pascal, but was thinking Planck. What can I say, it's a Sunday and it's my third day of downloading the patches for Mortal Online, so I think my brain's switched off.--Stunteddwarf Spirit of the Cherry Blossom 17:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Definitely not Planck. Scarlet A.pngsshole 18:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Math expert request

Who is our local math experts that are still active? tmtoulouse 17:26, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Depends how advanced. I always thought Pi. There's a PhD maths student I know who definitely reads RW but I'm not sure if they're an active user or who it would be if they were an active user. Scarlet A.pngsshole 18:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
MarkGall shows up occasionally. MARCVS ANTONIVS 20:32, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
What sort of thing are you wondering about? I know a bit about some topics, though if it's stats-y your guess is as good as mine (probably better). But presumably someone here knows. --MarkGall (talk) 00:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Short version (and I can go long version if you think you can help) is that I am using Bayes equation to "learn" a reward value, but I want to add a learning rate or weight. I was hoping there might be some semi-elegant way to control learning rate by weighting priors or liklihoods but nothing seems to really work. The best I have so far is to do a typical weighted differences to update the new prior so its like "new prior=old prior - weight*new prior" but this feels like a hack. tmtoulouse 00:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Don't have a clue, sorry! I have a friend who does this sort of thing, I can ask next time I see him if you're still interested. Or perhaps someone else here already knows. --MarkGall (talk) 00:29, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I always thought you were better than the rest of us. I did take linear algebra and calc 3, but honestly, I have no idea. Šţěŗĭļė snowflake 00:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for chiming in guys, I will keep poking at it and if I have to use a hack I have to use a hack. If you run into anyone that might know I can spell out the problem more formally but thanks for checking into it. tmtoulouse 01:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I'll run it past some people at work with a statistics background. I have no idea myself, but I think I might know someone who would. --The Emperor Kneel before Zod! 02:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

World Cup Again

World Cup action starting again soon. Germany and Australia. Lets go Aussies! On a separate note, we really should create a forum page so non-fùtball fans don;t have to keep reading updates. SirChuckBA product of Affirmative Action 18:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes indeed, a general "sports" forum would be a good idea. ħumanUser talk:Human 18:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
You mean like this one? WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 20:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, a lot like that. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
But RW's the only place where I get any feetboll info. (haven't we a couple or three editors in Germany: Sid & Röstigraben @ least.) 18:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast

The RationalWiki Boredom Project

I have been cleaning the house. This is tedious, despite the corrosive chemicals (including the one that failed to remove all the black mould in the bathroom, but did corrode the chrome on the taps). So I've been chilling out by reading the entirety of RationalWiki. Hence the strangely alphabetical nature of my recent copyedits.

Anyone else this bored? It's fun!

zzzzzzzz - David Gerard (talk) 18:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh dear. I usually just go for special:random. Scarlet A.pngsshole 19:49, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Or there's this and this. ONE / TALK 19:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
When I get bored I check images for licences, but thankfully I've not been that bored for a while. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 20:52, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Try bleach. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I kept getting the same articles on special:random - David Gerard (talk) 08:07, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Water stain

The building across the road that I am looking at from my 7th floor office has a water stain in the shape of the Virgin Mary on it. I am wondering if I should take a photo of it and incite a pilgrimage. Acei9 03:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Are your sure it's not just Nutty's mom? ħumanUser talk:Human 03:14, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
At the apartment I lived in going on twenty years ago, there was a patch on the ceiling from where I had used a newspaper to swat a bug. The patch looked like Martin Luther King. MDB (talk) 11:08, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm watching the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Will Smith looks like a white guy. SJ Debaser 11:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Finance your habits - take a photo of it and auction it on Ebay. RagTopGone sailing 12:12, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

according to Metapedia...

I outrank Pi, Josh and Goonie. I'm very, very proud of this. P-Foster (talk) 04:11, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Funny. I just IM'ed that to the Human just an hour ago. The Goonie 1 What's this button do? Uh oh.... 04:40, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
If you dance on the string of the puppet that dances on my string, do I make you dance? tmtoulouse 04:53, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Hmmmm, more to the point, they left out people who, I would argue, are more important to this Wiki than my humble self. And, to Trent. theoretically it would. But that's just a theory. Gooniepunk2010 Oi! Oi! Oi! 05:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Ha! As if! 05:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Looking at that article's history, I think we found where a certain recently annoying RW editor came from - David Gerard (talk) 06:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Really? Oh yeah, I remember now. It does synch up, actually. Those meta-editors still remind me of Ken, though. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 06:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
That "web of power" is just a few examples of who demoted who to bureaucrat. Looks like that "researcher" just pulled a few names out of recent changes & looked them up on the user rights log. WẽãšẽĩõĩďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 06:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
:( I want to be in the fascist power structure. EddyP (talk) 10:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I know, I don't even rank on the stinking chart.... Where does one campaign for "House Negro" of Rationalwiki? SirChuckBI have very poor judgement 10:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
You'd think as Metapedia are racists they'd have you up there Chuck, part of some black guy conspiracy. It does look like the demote to bureaucrat thing though. There's no other reason I should be there, unless my farts have some kind of special power. SJ Debaser 10:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
SuperJosh? SUPERJOSH??!! How did that uber-noob get a mention before me? oh wait, we are talking about knuckle-dragging nazis here (MP, not Josh). Also, P-Foster, I see you have no underlings according to MP - does that make you our Ken? Also, does the RW power structure mean we have a Gang of Four, Plus One Bloke Slightly Higher and One Bloke Higher Still? --PsyGremlin講話 11:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I've been snubbed by Metapedia... cunts. Scarlet A.pngsshole 13:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Chuck, sign up to Metapedia and insert yourself as "Affirmative Action Beaurocrat". I'm sure they'd love it. Scarlet A.pngsshole 13:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Psy, we've had a Gang of Four for quite some time now. DickTurpis (talk) 14:13, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Oh. Them. I prefer the Nag of Four. More cuddly and stuff. --PsyGremlinHable! 14:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm apparently higher than Pi, and on the same level as Bob. Goodness. Cubic cubic Hoover! 15:03, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Bow down to the ALMIGHTY WEB OF POWER!!!! I can only dream of having such vast powers. DogPMarmite Patrol 16:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Mr Hoover, I could be useful in helping round up your enemies. Bob is but a mewling child in comparison to your illustrious self. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 18:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Goodness, you're sixth-tier at best. If you impress me, you will be elevated to fourth-tier. Cubic cubic Hoover! 18:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Surely we can do better and build the full chart of "who cratted who" and mail it to them? ħumanUser talk:Human 18:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Could be tricky, as I discovered when trying to trace CR's ancestry. CR was begat by Weaseloid who was begat by RA who was begat by Pink, but the trail ends there. My theory is that the logs were screwed up by her incessant name changes and the old MW software, or that she was demoted server-side, leaving no logs. Either way, it makes things difficult. Cubic cubic Hoover! 19:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm. Can we piece together what we do know and see what gaps need to be filled? Might be as simple as tracking Pink's name changes, or finding one of their earlier names in someone else's right management log? ħumanUser talk:Human 19:12, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
This seems like the sort of thing that can be automated. I'm not sure if PWB does logs, though. Cubic cubic Hoover! 19:14, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Well I was cratted by none other than the Illustrious Lord Trent himself (Hallowed be His Name). Surely that makes me some sort of Arch-Duke in the highest possible tier (merely below only the Gracious Lord Trent (Hallowed Be His Name))? DickTurpis (talk) 19:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
What about people (such as yours truly) who gave up their rights? This should put me in the same league as Edward VIII if he was on the internet, should it not? Or maybe Nicholas II? SJ Debaser 19:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
What about martyrs like me, Josh? What about martyrs like me? — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
You have a point there, Josh, and Edward VIII is an apt metaphor as we're discussing a Nazi site. DickTurpis (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Where the heck is Ace in all this? Being a sysop under His mighty charge, I could be basking in reflected glory as a low-ranking noble, if only he'd bother to make Researcher Trent Human notice him. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 19:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
That reminds me. I'm pretty shy in the minions department. I have to work on rustling up a few to address this dearth. Any chance I can scoop a few from Ace during his absence? DickTurpis (talk) 19:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I dunno, Sir Squirrel seems to be tossing out 'cratship like candy. First person to send one my way gets my loyalty, and Ace's evening wine will be poisoned free of charge. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 19:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Actually, Ace takes gin through the ear. We may have an opening for a Claudius for you, Kupo. DickTurpis (talk) 19:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Well, my only familiarity with that role is through a bad Simpsons episode, but I learn quickly. Is there much death involved on my part? I'd like to enjoy my plunder. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 19:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Then it seems you ought to go read Hamlet before you aspire to anything greater. Bureaucrats tend to come from the literati and more....refined...classes. (Cue fart from SuperJosh.) DickTurpis (talk) 20:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Being at teh lonely bottom of the power structure *sniff*, I'm looking for a few good people to 'crat so I'm no longer at the bottom. Who wants 'cratted? Secret Squirrel (talk) 19:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

CR's definitely below you, so you needn't worry. Cubic cubic Hoover! 19:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
If I de-crat and re-crat everyone does that make me mightier? DickTurpis (talk) 19:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Does this mean I'm wp:Fagging for the squirrel? I'm not entirely happy with that. ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 19:57, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
When one is sick of fagging you can always start fragging. DickTurpis (talk) 20:03, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Preliminary results

OK, I went through the list of current crats and built the tree, also added ex-crats I could remember or identify. The database is obviously a bit damaged, since there is no "beginning" for Linus, Thanatos, Pi, and Pink. I'd share the tree with you but right now it's on a piece of paper. Later, perhaps. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I've redrawn the tree(s) based on my crude web. There are three - one starts with RWAdmin, and runs through Trent and me, accounting for aboout half the crats. One starts with Pink, and leads to ten more, and the third starts with Pi, another eleven. I included every ex-crat I could think of. The two outliers, Linus and Thanatos, kept things simple by not cratting anyone else. If I can think of an easy way to transfer this info to the computer I'll do it. ħumanUser talk:Human 20:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. Linus was first, and had DB access, so he may well have just edited the relevant tables by hand. The others are stranger, but Pink and Thanatos have both had tonnes of names, so the logs might just be left attached to one of their old usernames. Pi has had only one rename, though, and I can't think of an explanation offhand. Cubic cubic Hoover! 20:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
http://www.graphviz.org/ --194.197.235.240 (talk) 21:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Science in the courtroom

PDF of a chapter from "How to Tell Science from Bunk" by Massimo Pigliucci Hat tip

I think I spend too much time here. I read that as "Machismo Pigliucci". CrundyTalk nerdy to me 07:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Machismo Pigliucci, author of ground-breaking book "How to Tell Science from Hunk" ONE / TALK 12:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Announcing my new medical practice

MDB's Medical Certification Board and All-Nite Kuntry Kookin' Restaurant is pleased to announce that MDB is now a board-certified doctor and is authorized to treat dropsy, the vapors, quinsy, priapism, the heartbreak of psoriasis and other conditions, complaints, diseases, maladies and conditions.

We accept all health plans except ObamaCare. MDB (talk) 13:43, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you treat scrofula too? Or do you have to ordain yourself king first? --PsyGremlin말하십시오 13:56, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I'll treat scrofula. Take two leeches and call me in the morning. MDB (talk) 14:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
From a libertarian point of view, I suppose I support Rand's decision not to recertify with that organization. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 15:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that's quite the point. The point is he's running saying he's a board-certified ophthalmologist... but it's a board he helped to create himself. That would be a little like if I presented myself as a graduate of "Harvard, Yale, Princeton and the Sorbonne"... without saying that I have a classroom in my basement that I call "Harvard, Yale, Princeton and the Sorbonne" and I presented myself with a PhD from it.
Yeah, I know its not quite the same, since Rand Paul presumably has a medical degree from a legitimate university and is qualified to practice opthalmology, but he's being somewhat duplicitous in saying that it's not what's generally considered "the board".
Perhaps more to the point, when I was working on my masters degree (that I never completed), I took courses at Johns Hopkins. (Incidentally, the same facility that once employed the AssFly.) That always impressed people based on the fame of their medical school, but I'd always explain, "while it's not a bad school, the engineering programs are not the caliber of their med school." MDB (talk) 15:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
It'd also be like Bill Gates saying he's a certified systems engineer. Rand had a legitimate problem with the board. If they don't change their policies, what recourse did he have? What would you have done? — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 15:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the point isn't necessarily what he did, that's fine, maybe even commendable. The point is that he's using the phrase "board certified" in a misleading way. To use another analogy, it'd be like me putting "graduated with honors" on my resume, then come to find out I graduated with honors from Elementary school and was in the bottom third of my college class. SirChuckBGentoo Penguins is the best kind of Penguin 17:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. I don't understand enough about the issue behind the certification to say whether Paul should have started his own board or not. The point is he is portraying himself as "board-certified", without mentioning "by the way, that's not the usual board."
Here's another example. I can declare, "I was Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 2006!" That is true. 100%. However, that fails to mention a very salient point: that was the year Time named "you" (as in "everybody") Person of the Year. I'm being truthful, but leaving out a key fact. MDB (talk) 17:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
It's the same problem. Say you actually were man of the year in 1991. As with the certification which Paul eschews, it'd be like you saying you were man of the year every year since, no matter how bad (or out of date) you (or your skills) have gotten. The grandfather clause of the certification made it nothing more than a false sense of security. I'm certified in the latest in eye surgery technology (circa 1990)! Leaving out key facts. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 18:44, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I think everyone here agrees that permanent medical certifications are bad. Regardless, it helps to clarify which certifications one has, rather than leave it to investigation. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 19:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, I read most of the article, and it appears to be the case that it casts Paul in a good light, not a bad one. So he helped create the rival board? Yeah, ten years ago, and I'm sure they take their work seriously. Why did he do it? The other board exempted older doctors from recertification, which seems like poor policy. This is based on my reading of just this one article at HuffPo, though, so I am probably less well-informed than before I read it. ħumanUser talk:Human 19:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

uh-oh

New Zealand 1 - 1 Slovakia
Expect a very drunk Ace in the foreseeable future. --PsyGremlinPrata! 14:08, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I never expect anything else .... Worm(t | c) 14:27, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, what's your point? If you'd have said "Expect a very sober Ace" then we would have thought somethng was up. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 14:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Equalizing goal in the 3rd minute of extra time!!! I must admit I had pretty much given up and then Bammo. It's not just Ace you should be concerned about you know. DamoHi 19:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)