Talk:List of Coincidence Theories

One
Is Coincidence Theory and example of Conspiracy Theory?--PalMD-yada yada 14:10, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You could argue that, but it is usually an answer to a conspiracy theory. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 14:11, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess im confused by the wording. The way it stands, to me it sounds like a Coincidence Theory is denial of a conspiracy.  I guess i don't get it.--PalMD-yada yada 14:14, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Conspiracy theories form for many reasons, among them, unexplained circumstantial evidence that portends either a conspiracy or some sort of wrongdoing. Short of an admission by a conspirator (or the mainstream press telling the masses that an actual conspiracy took place) most conspiracy theories are dismissed by arguing that the juxtaposition of incrimminating coincidences does not establish a conspiracy.  However, as the number of strange coincidences increases, arguing that such events are just coincidence is less credible than the conspiracy theory.  In any event, I am not saying that most conspiracy theories, especially as presented in strawman form, are true; rather, it is reasonable to wonder about strange coincidences, especially when these coincidences are not officially explained in greater detail.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 14:24, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I guess i just don't buy the premise of "coincedence theory". Correlation is not causation.  Sure, if lot's of things are causally connected, it helps figure out causation, but temporal and other coincident connections just don't do it.  I mean, I was accepted to medical school and I got engaged on the anniversary of the Kennedy assasination.  The marriage didn't last, the med school did.  I could argue that the forces that were behind the assassination monitor what happens on those dates, and manipulated my life to further their causes.--PalMD-yada yada 14:32, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sure, but when faced with unexplained and impeachable coincidences, responsible authorities do not merely dismiss them as coincidences. For example, if a man has a wife who dies after falling down the cellar stairway in a tragic accident, an investigator should not assume it is coincidence if this same man was previously married to a woman who also met the same fate, even though it is conceivable that it is coincidence.  The coincidence does not establish guilt in this case, but it should raise eyebrows.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 14:44, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed. However, conspiracy theories usually involve larger events, rather than personal events.  And the larger the event, the easier it is to find conincidences, stat-speaking.  For instance, with 3000 people dying in the WTC, it's easy to find someone who knew someone, and some type of theory can build from there.--PalMD-yada yada 14:50, 25 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I think I should stop contributing to this talk page now. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 14:48, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

What's the coincidence with Larry Silverstein supposed to be? --jtl talk 14:57, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It is an answer to a "follow the money" conspiracy theory. There are more coincidences with regard to Larry Silverstein, I'll have to add them after I find some reliable sources.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 15:01, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Heart, that screenshot is classic, you should put it on your user page. And nice job of text wrapping around it!  By the way, can we possibly channel some of RobS' work for this article?  human be in 00:46, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you're familiar with RobS's coincidence theories, feel free. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 00:50, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

Unclear
I apologize, im still a little unclear here. I feel like "coincidence theory" is analagous to "New Ordeal". I'll have to do some more reading, cuz im confused. I just did a google search, and coincidence theory comes up a little bit, but seems to be a subset of conspiracy theory.--PalMD-yada yada 21:29, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Coincidence theory is a term I coined (probably coined independantly by many others before me) after 9/11. When confronted with strange coincidences, those who have been indoctrinated to believe that the term "conspiracy theory" is the realm of kooks dismiss strange coincidences as mere coincidences.  Hence, I call them coincidence theoriests.  I am not sure if there is a more overwealming meaning to the term than what I ascribe to it.  Generally, "you call me a conspiracy theoriest, I call you a coincidence theoriest." Heart  ♥  Gold tx 21:40, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, roll with it, HG. I knew what it meant before clicking and reading.  Perhaps just a little more simple clarity in the first sentence or two will help, but I also see it is a work in progress.  And I can think of 3 or 4 hundred examples ;).  It's an amusing article, at least, and I think they are important! human be in 22:27, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Frankness
I guess Im beating around the bush. There is a lack of clarity here. Is your point that the coincidences add up to helping confirm conspiracy theories? This isn't meant as a criticism, because i think it is good to air these issues for conformation or critique. I just want to understand better. Coincidence theory=legitimization of conspiracy theory?--PalMD-yada yada 22:15, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No. Coincidence theories are sometimes hard to swallow.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:23, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You might need to use small words for me. Let me see if i understand.  When people spot coincidence (not causation), the tend to attribute causation, whether or not it is appropriate.  Your list is showing instances of incorrectly attributed causation?  --PalMD-yada yada 22:25, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Let me work on the article a little more. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:40, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks, cuz so far its interesting, i just dont get it. Im also happy to help edit it (im not a bad writer) to more clearly present the meaning, whether or not i agree.--PalMD-yada yada 22:41, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ugh, I'll try again if you want to help. Conspiracy theories form for a number of reasons, one of which is unexplained (or ignored) strange coincidences.  Those who flippantly dismiss unexplained strange coincidences regarding motive, circumstantial evidence of prior knowledge, and whatnot, are coincidence theoriests (or just don't care).  Some of these strange coincidences are interesting to me, and help explain why some conspiracy theories form.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:50, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you saying that people who believe the official explanation of 911 are Coincidence Theoriests? olliegrind 10:07, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Most people who believe the official story as outlined in the 9/11 report are simply dupes. It is clear to me that my grandchildren will know much more about 9/11, if they choose to study it, than I will.  This is how such things work.  Those who have studied the issue and dismiss eyebrow raising "coincidences" as mere coincidences are coincidence theoriests at best.  Such coincidences deserve better explainations than mere proclomations.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:36, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, HG, but I am curious (maybe this is not the place to ask, though) - where in the "range" of 9/11 theories do you tend to inhabit? Asking in light of your statement that many years from now, more will (might?) be known. human be in 22:42, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * My theory is that by the time the truth about 9/11 is known, nobody will care anymore. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:46, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * A harmless dodge ;) You don't have to tell me what you think really happened, but your meta answer is fine.  Like, now we know the Tonkin Gulf incident was pretty much fictionalized for political purposes, but no one cares since LBJ is dead and the War is over. human be in 22:54, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Apparently I am a coincidence theoriest and probably a dupe. Is that better or worse than being a wingnut? :) olliegrind 06:37, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Falsifiable
I'm confused about the use of "falsifiable" (well, the whole thing is kind of abstract at first glance) there in the opening. You say it's not falsifiable because people change the theory as new evidence comes in, but isn't that what falsifiable theories do? If something comes along and says your theory is wrong, you change the parts that don't work. Or am I misunderstanding both your point and the concept of falsifiability? --Kels 22:48, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I do not recall adding the "as new evidence comes in". Might have been somebody else. Heart  ♥  Gold tx 22:51, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Peter Power
Any British subjects here? What do they make of Peter Power's statements on 7/7? Heart ♥  Gold tx 23:18, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I am a British citizen (we haven;t been "subjects" for a while). But I've been America-bound for almost forty years, so all I do is get pissed at bad imitation british accents and people saying "bloody 'ell".  If you have a link I'll go read it, though. human be in 23:45, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, duh, no "link", it's in this article. Fabulous coinkydink theory.  Like the USAF being so busy with war games they didn;t know 9/11 was real?  (forgive my clumsy wording) human be in 23:47, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
 * A link to video is in the article (see footnotes). He was also interviewed that day on the radio and said essentially the same thing.  The CT is mine, though I have heard others state it indpendantly, that is, that in a false flag operation using patsy Muslims who were just trying to help their country  fight terrorism and earn a little extra money by participating in terror drill --little did they know, their satchels contained not fake explosives, but real ones.  It would make an interesting movie, at least.  By CT, I don't mean something that I think actually happened, I mean a story to fit the facts (sort of like evolution).  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 08:34, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Oh No! Conspiracy!
I'm coming out of the closet here. I think this whole "coincidence theory" thing is a way of minimalizing those who think conpriacy theories are a bunch of bullshit. I like HG, so no implicit criticsm of him/her here, just that this whole topic is "suspicious" to me. Coincidence theory is about people who are too "dumb" to realize there is a conspiracy afoot.--PalMD-yada yada 07:33, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree here. HG admitted he made up the term (or, at least it is not common) and it seems to me that it is in some ways similar to creationists calling people who believe in evolution "evolutionists." Perhaps this would be better as an essay. olliegrind 09:51, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Original research is allowed here, no? Heart  ♥  Gold tx 10:11, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, but it seems like no one really understands this completely and many do not appear to agree (I could be wrong). Since this seems like an article that is going to be mostly (or fully) attributed to a single editor and seems more on the opinion side, perhaps the Essay space would be the best place for it. olliegrind 12:24, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

OKC Related?
This could probably be merged somehow with 9/11 or Iraq, mainly because at first glance I assumed that this had something to do with the 1995 Bombing of the Murrah building. --Colest 09:30, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, I have a CT on that....quite complex....gotta lay the groundwork first. The theory is (and this is a stretch):  Iraq did help McVeigh.  The Clinton administration did not want to make the case complicated, however, and so stopped looking for "John Doe #2" (remember him?).  Anyway, under this theory, Bush and the PNAC did have grounds for wanting to invade Iraq.  However, Bush, out of respect for the office of the presidency, did not disclose details regarding Iraq's involvment in the OKC federal building.
 * Anyway, this is more plausible than it might sound at first blush, but, on the other hand, is still just a story to fit an incomplete record of facts (sound familiar?) Heart  ♥  Gold tx 10:18, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * PS, for whatever reason, coincidence or otherwise, OKC was a gathering point for terrorists and wanna-be spies like Nick Berg. Local OKC bombing reports generated lots of fodder for conspiracy theories, some of these theories are more reasonable than others.  My theory on the Iraq war is plausible, but I do not insist that it is true.  All I insist is that the whole truth is not known by the general public.  Heart  ♥  Gold tx 10:21, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Hehe, yeah, and Bush "respecting" the presidency under Clinton is a bit of a stretch. human be in 12:25, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Delete
What the template says. Both the concept and the examples are crap. I understand that User:HeartOfGold must have been an... interesting individual, but this is not worthy of RW. --ZooGuard (talk) 14:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It would appear as though HeartOfGold went on another of his loopy rants, and everyone else made a totally half-arsed effort to cover it up. I say delete.--— cm 2 — 22:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * God physics, yes. This is crap. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:34, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't quite understand what the article is getting at and I understand Time Cube. 19:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)