Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive105

New RW Award
I think we should kick off 2009 with a new weekly award, the RW "Stubby" for the most lulz-inducing stub article created on CP during that period. I know it's probably going to go to Ed more often than not, but it would be worth it just to create an appropriate medal design and present it over and over. --SpinyNorman 17:33, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not too good an artist - Kels, wanna take a shot at designing a "Stubby" award? --SpinyNorman 17:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * What's your nomination for the "Stubby" at the moment?  17:51, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'd go with this - one could say the *cough* article itself is an example of an unborn child. --SpinyNorman 18:36, 7 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, Foetus ftw!  ħ uman  20:21, 7 January 2009 (EST)

And aside
You know, we might as well just send a subscription of them to Ed, he's bound to win them all. Just as we had to name the CP biggest idiot award after him in order to ever get away with giving it someone else.

Gems from two (almost) consecutive sections on his talk page (grabbed from I talk to dead people WIGO):


 * [writing in reply to a question about chemistry articles] Nothing is too advanced for an encyclopedia, as long as it is introduced properly. If writers deliberately make material inaccessible, that would not be good. If you need help writing an introduction, ask others to help you. --Ed Poor Talk 19:38, 4 January 2009


 * Math needs to be presented in a way that any intelligent reader can understand it. I'm not interested in math articles requiring straight A's in 12th grade math, until we've gotten basic articles in good shape. --Ed Poor Talk 14:42, 7 January 2009

Wow.  ħ uman  20:28, 7 January 2009 (EST)


 * Oh my. That explains a lot. Though it's clever, in it's own way. It first tries to put in the claim that CP will be accurate, comprehensive and advanced, while at the SAME time, it allows them to back-track on anything they don't like or can't understand themselves and blame the original writer, rather than themselves. They may be idiots, but they have a cunning that can only be achieved by an idiot.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 06:23, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Columbanus again
(RW is still acting up for me, BTW.) ETrundel explains that she had thought Breadan was making a pun on "Saint Columbus". If only there were a saint named Columbus... --Marty 00:55, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * There is a Saint Columba, though, as the Loch Ness monster learned to his consternation. But who's to say Breadan wasn't making a pun on St. Brendan the Navigator? I don't know the personae involved; it's probably just ETrundel responding to internal stimuli.  - Poor Excuse 01:15, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's rather typical of the Irish to have two saints with very similar names. The St Colmbanus entry is accurate in as far as it goes. St Columba was another saint who (a) copied out the Book Of Kells and (b) founded Iona (in addition to the Loch Ness monster thingy) Silver Sloth 05:24, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Ed Poor
Ed Poor's is currently on quite an editing flurry on Wikipedia, mostly dumbing down the science articles. I was curious as to whether there's a reason Wikipedia was being "graced" by his presence. I wonder if this explains this? Is there a "What is Going On with Ed Poor?" page here, covering all his activities? - Poor Excuse 01:10, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I see he's got the same bad habit over there as on CP, instead of asking questions on the talk page like a normal person, he makes some worthless little edit and sticks them in the edit comment. Which doesn't do anyone any good, and makes it look like he's doing stuff to make some leading point. --Kels 06:27, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * He must just genuinely believe that "I can't understand it" = "it must be wrong"...  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 06:35, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's worse then that - as this little gem shows:"I am fairly good at giving a layman's view of complex science - or finding someone else who can and simply quoting them."

- Ed Poor LArron 07:19, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hrm, I think he means "moron's view" or possibly simply "ED SMASH PUNY WELL WRITTEN ARTICLE!" --JeevesMkII 07:22, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I suppose the best we can hope for is that he means "I quote others so I can better express myself" (I can't remember exactly who said it or the exact wording of the original but it's apt), but I doubt it. In order to express things simply, you need to understand them in thei full complexity. That's why good pop-science authors tend to be scientists that are good at writing rather than writers who are good at science. When the latter occurs (tabloid "science correspondants" for instance), it is, almost without exception, completely dire prose and likely to do more harm than good to a person's knowledge base.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 07:31, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * A layman's view of complex science - "I can't understand it". That's our Uncle Ed alright. Генгис    07:41, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * it's the (paraphrase) "I've dumbed it down to my level - undo if you don't like it" edit comments that amuse me. fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 07:48, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's more "undo if you like, but I'll put it right back if I don't like" really...  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:09, 8 January 2009 (EST)

I have to admit I agree in principle with some of what Ed says about some articles in Wikipedia not being written enough in laymen's terms. However, I don't think the target reader is a mildly retarded eight year old, but a reasonably intelligent person with no specialized knowledge in the field he is researching. If Ed could write straightforward introductions to articles that weren't completely pedantic he might be a useful organism. Instead he decides an article on addition is using too much math lingo so he writes something like "Addition is getting more of things. Imagine you have one apple, and your friend gives you one apple. Now you have two apples! That's addition!" DickTurpis 11:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)

AIDS
Holy shit Ed has moved to AIDS denialism now. - User   08:29, 8 January 2009 (EST) "Science is not complicated. Any 10-year-old can understand that whether a hypothesis is confirmed or contradicted by evidence."
 * How about an experiment. Post Lenski-Affair, Andy should have set to work building a competent bio-lab. Let's ship him some HIV in a can and have him inject it into Ed Poor's arse. Then we'll see what happens.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:39, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Holy goat on a half shell, what a bloody idiot. Look Ed, seeing is believing! Here is a real actual picture of HIV attacking a T-Cell with neat 3D effect and pretty false colour! Seeing is believing, but then again perhaps you don't believe in scanning electron microscopes either? Or why else haven't so-called scientists detected the angels on the heads of pins? --JeevesMkII 08:46, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * "It's almost like an attempt to be so disgusting that no one will want to read it."


 * The man's a loony! Now we see Ed's mental age. fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 11:03, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * This is a great exchange on Ed's talk page.
 * Ed: HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Some guy in my church said so.
 * Able: Ed, I am going to supply you with references detailing the evidence that HIV causes AIDS.
 * Ed: Oh, I don't think we can work together on this. Corryundefined 13:15, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Wow, from the WIGO'd diff: "It doesn't make sense to spend billions of dollars on trying to prove something and nothing at all double-checking. A significant amount of funds should go into research which attempts to the theory. In science, "falsification" does not mean creating a false document but rather discovering facts which contradict a hypothesis or theory." Nice try Ed. How many different disciplines does he fail at with just those three "sentences"?  ħ uman  15:16, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * Ed says he hasn't seen any compelling evidence that HIV causes AIDS. I wonder if he's ever heard of Medline?  Oh, I wish I weren't blocked right now.  Corryundefined 15:54, 8 January 2009 (EST)

The Past
Is it merely coincidence that two days after Andy's "insight" into the secular concept of the past, Stephen Colbert announces in his "Word" segment that "anything that happened more than six months ago never happened"? Hulu link tomorrow, if I remember to post it. Fast-forward to 6:53. --Marty 02:58, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I wouldn't be surprised if Colbert/his writers took most of his material from CP. I mean you can't get much better parody than material strait from the real crazies themselves.  --ScottA 05:06, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * And someone from the land downunder is taking him on. fröhlich"gay" and "happy" 01:01, 9 January 2009 (EST)

More Bible
This is clearly idiotic, though I can't seem to put it succinctly enough to make it my first WIGO.--Kriss AkabusiAAAAWOOOOGAAAR!!1 04:30, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't quite get it either... Yet another case of purging the Bible of "liberal" passages so that it becomes The Gospel According To Schlafly.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 06:15, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * And now he wants to find passages where he can crowbar in 'conservative' and 'homeschool'. Where the  HELL!!  is he going to put them? Does he not realise that 'liberal' just means 'generous'?--Kriss AkabusiAAAAWOOOOGAAAR!!1 09:20, 8 January 2009 (EST)

All of CP's Bible revisionism strikes me as parody. I don't know whether Andy laughs hardest at the brown-nosers who agree with him, or at editors who push back without realizing that pushing back against parody is a fools' errand. But the war against the word "liberal" provides opportunities for fun at CP. The word "library" sounds kinda like "liberal" -> libraries are a liberal plot!--Simple 10:50, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * This is really ridiculous. If they even got through Mark, which would be surprising, this will basically be like the lolcat bible, but with mindless use of modern political jargon to describe the "conservative" apostles and the "liberal" sodomites.  On the other hand, will they use "Moral Majority" to describe the pharisees?  Corryundefined 13:34, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * Wow... "censor"? "media"?  Didn't the Romans invent those words?  And "status worship", of course, a common phrase these days, has its origin a few weeks ago on conservapedia, right?  ħ uman  13:51, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nice try, Rod.  ħ uman  13:53, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Between this and the "past is not in the Gospels" thing, I am now officially convinced. Andy must be a parodist, not to mention a sublime method actor. I'm impressed. -- 14:00, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have been toying with this idea for a bit now, I have actually been in contact with a few people who "knew Andy when" while working on digging around the Obama/Harvard story. All of them describe a very different Andy than we are familiar with and are shocked to see what he is up too. tmtoulouse 14:04, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Early onset dementia? fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 14:06, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nah. Chronic psychosis from ~10 years of speedballing the YEC Godspeed with his mother's ultra-conservative bile. It's a lethal combination for the mind. Robledo 17:25, 8 January 2009 (EST)

OK, Andy, "12:31, 8 January 2009 Aschlafly blocked RodWeathers with an expiry time of 2 hours (account creation disabled) ‎ (absurd edit, claiming that an English term arose in before Christ)". That's it? Perhaps your article should describe the evolution of the English language, and especially when it came to be called that, so we all know the guidelines to stay within. (I'm not saying "English" is that old, but still...)  ħ uman  15:03, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * More evidence for the theory that Andy can't read. -- 15:57, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nay, he was looking at the verb form. - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 16:18, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ah, mea culpa. Too bad, that would have fit with him so nicely. -- 20:10, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Favicon
Anyone else noticed that they've cot themselves a favicon now? Генгис   07:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Even more amazing, their favicon isn't a picture of Hitler. (20 millionty points for anyone who can persuade them to change it.) --JeevesMkII 07:56, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Still showing the Firefox default on mine. fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 08:04, 8 January 2009 (EST)

See also weirdness
Another JM face-palm from Flower, "See also - walnut". Генгис   07:54, 8 January 2009 (EST)

And Homeschoolers only use periods at the end of sentences about 50% of the time...
We am trying two right better, butt habbin difficult Jimaginator 08:35, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * link? fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 09:16, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Here it am--
 * Ah, I see. But the only two "facts" that are referenced are clearly characteristics that actual homeschooled eccentric geniuses, not fundie-loon taught ones, possess.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:55, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is there a reason every "homeschoolers" is wikilinked? Is that a 🇰🇪-ism? --PsyGremlinWhut? 09:59, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I assume it's a vague attempt to google-bomb the article. Either that or everything is a copy/paste job. Either way, it reads like crap doing it that way. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:01, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * The shame of it is, homeschoolers will get a black eye from all this. The one homeschooler kid I've known (for sure), age 9, was a really smart, courteous, sociable, tolerant, happy, inquistive, well-read kid. He taught me a thing or two about a lot of subjects, including evolution. But of course, his parents were all that he was too, which is the key to it all. He was homeschooled because his dad moved around the country a lot on business, so they decided to do it themselves. He blew the doors off of many 12 year olds I've known. Jimaginator 10:37, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Many homeschoolers are very bright people. The average homeschooler probably is in many ways smarter or better educated than the average public school kid. The amount of individual attention they get in their education can make a world of difference (oddly enough, this factor, which is the best reason to homeschool, is the one Andy denies). Provided the parents are intelligent, educated, and knowledgable, they can be very good teachers for their kids. Andy's students, from what we've seen of their work. tend not to fit this, mostly because they have such a bad teacher, I'd guess. Their parents can't be too bright either for sending them to him. DickTurpis 10:45, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * My guess would be that the "smart" parents accept the bad part of Andru's teaching in exchange for the vast inculcation they will receive in the ways of the Lord. GodspeedJimaginator
 * ...which makes them stupid. DickTurpis 11:31, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC)Dick, the problem is that your (and my) definition of homeschooling is not what Andy means by homschooling. To me a homeschooler is one who is given tuition individually or at least in a very small group, so yes they will get more intense teaching and probably do better academically (and this applies to the remedial student as well as to the super-bright). Andy just defines homschooling as teaching that is not within the public school system. His "world's largest American history" class hardly fits in with what I would consider to be homeschooling. Its withdrawing kids from the state-defined curriculum and índoctrinating them with your own religious/political views. Andy's just like Humpty Dumpty - When I use a word, I mean it to mean exactly what I mean it to mean - nothing more, nothing less.. <font color=Blue>Генгис    11:38, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, Andy's definition is overly broad, but it certainly includes the types I mentioned, it just does not refer to them exclusively. I believe some sort of classroom-type education away from home is common among all homeschoolers. At least students at high school level can't be getting all their education from their parents, as I doubt anyone has the knowledge to teach all subjects at that level. If they're not getting tutored, they're probably going to some sort of homeschooling class. Andy's students see him for something like 2 hours a week, I believe; most of the rest of the time is probably spent at home being taught by their parents (or reading the Bible). I imagine some are going to other classes in other topics, but I have no idea if that's true. It seems they should, as history as taught by Andy is one of the subjects any parent can teach with the aid of a textbook, and does not require a highly proficient teacher (unlike, say, trigonometry). DickTurpis 11:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Permit me to disagree. Proper history education involves teaching a critical approach to the sources and an ability to put things in a greater context. If anything, I'd say it's more dependent on having a proficient teacher. -- 14:04, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's why I specifically said "as taught by Andy". Anyone can teach his course; to spend money on it is ludicrous (and poor Bethany allegedly spent her own money on it; Andy owes her $250). Proper history education, as you stated, is a different matter entirely (hey, I was a history major in college). DickTurpis 14:12, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * She spent he own money? I must have missed that one. Must have been a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome from her earlier captivity with Schlafly on one of his courses. I guess she's over it now. --JeevesMkII 14:34, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Might be jumping the gun if we're writing her CP obituary already. She hasn't been inactive that long. I'd be surprised if we've seen the last of her. DickTurpis 14:37, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * AP, Jan 9, 2019. Twelve former students of convicted pedophile Andrew Q. Schlafly have filed a class action suit against the former circus clown and professional mourner. Jimaginator 12:32, 9 January 2009 (EST)

A blast from the past....
TK is nuking anything having to do with our old pal HeartofGold. TheoryOfPractice 09:33, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's just TK's way. This shows that he's also done the same for PalMD and Fox. <font color=Blue>Генгис    10:55, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, the past doesn't exist according to Andy (in the Non Socialist Republic of Conservapedia the past is what we say it is!). (Can't blame him getting rid of HOG's stuff, really) fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 11:02, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * "The Stalinist Republic of Conservapedia" has a nice ring to it. -- 14:39, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have to admit, trying to figure out the bizarre things that take place on CP on the basis of incomplete information is rather like Kremlinology. --Gulik 03:22, 12 January 2009 (EST)

New accounts at CP
I just went over the last 50 accounts created at CP, and I think 35 are banhammered, with a few more which might be soon. Some apparently for no reason at all (though maybe they had deleted edits I couldn't see). Do we have an update on the percentage of accounts that are banned? I know it broke 50% recently, but it must have gone noticeably above that. DickTurpis 10:49, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think the sysopping of TK plus the epic hitlering of a few days back has put the TK party firmly in the ascendency. TK has been on a rangeblocking spree too, just to close off the possibility that new legitimate editors might sign up. I have the sneaking suspicion Conservapedia is very close to death right now, with very little new blood other than parodists and homskollars, the latter of which are notorious flashes in the pan. The older editors are dying off, as each find something to disagree with Andy about and we're left with people like Crock o' Shite and TK who don't actually edit articles. I'm not sure how much longer this status quo can sanely continue, though given it's Andy at the wheel it might continue insanely for quite some time. --JeevesMkII 11:10, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * What I'd expect to see is TK pushing PJR over the cliff (he's already teetering on the edge) as well as ♥JessicaT♥ and RJJenson. I've emailed one of the CP admins and they actually replied (respectfully and honestly, which is a surprise!), saying there's more unwritten rules that editors can be banned for, among other things. I even have a foresight hunch that Conservative might stop editing, too. Even he is having trouble keeping CP on his below-ground standards. Editors like JY23 just make mass edits that can't get them in trouble, but it's obvious they know what's going on and can't stay out of trouble forever. I'd also like to see BethanyS start something... she's gone missing. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  12:01, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Isn't BethanyS one of his Homeskollars? Probably she's just got older & wiser & realised what a load of tosh he spouts. fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 12:07, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I hadn't noticed it but she is AWOL. Her last article edit was Nov. 24, and it was just a revert. Other than her homework she's done basically nothing. DickTurpis 12:12, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * As you may recall, she had that blowup with the Assfly over segregating boys and girls exams. I suspect she may not be back. I think the elder S has been off to university, and is presumably now a liberal. Such is life in Andyland. --JeevesMkII 12:17, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, she seemed awfully repentant about the whole thing, assuring Andy she was still his loyal subject, but maybe that was just an act, knowing full well Andy was very capable of letting such open rebellion effect her final grade. I wouldn't be surprised if she returns. I suppose big sis might be off to college, though it would be unusual to start midway through the year (but by no means unheard of). Perhaps her final edit showed where she's off to. DickTurpis 12:25, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * BethanyS was pretty disgusted with Andy's sexist mide-term exam so I guess she decided to give up on his pet project. Older sister SharonS also seems to have given up but didn't Kektlik/NathanG say she was actually helping out with the homeschool teaching? There are several other HS-sysops who don't really contribute; BenjaminS, DuncanB, ChrisS, DavidR. Also remember the laughable "merit promotion" for DeborahB with her catalog of "Terms" edits, she made 7 non-homework or talk edits for the whole of 2008. No "inactivity" demotion for her, but I guess she's a whole lot prettier than HelpJazz. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:41, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * When thinking about new accounts, you also have to take into account the parodists who sprung up after the Bugler incident. I can count two or three too-good-to-be-true new posters who I hadn't seen before the new year. The problem is, the parodists fight amongst themselves and compete for Andys foolish and misplaced trust. Oh, and I think RodWeathers is gonna go soon. EddyP 12:48, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's interesting- it seems that when Bugler went away he exploded into a cloud of parodist spores, which should be no surprise, but Andy's guard doesn't seem to be at all raised. The operative word is "seem," though.  I can't help but think that he's wary of all the recent sycophants, especially if he's fine with parodists fending off vandals and liberals.  Corryundefined 16:08, 8 January 2009 (EST)

I made a quick pic for the creation of accounts at CP. However: LArron 16:39, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * 1) Only ~80% of the accounts are shown, as I looked up the creation logs and not all account seem to have a corresponding entry.
 * 2) If I don't know the block-status of an account, I put it into the not-blocked bin. I looked up the blocks for the last time at Jan 1st, so any account created in January 2009 is counted as not-blocked.

By request, a pictographic record of the secular past
There are men in England now still abed, who shall hold themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap while any speaks that saw teh lulz on saint Hitler's day. --JeevesMkII 12:10, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * :) --Robledo 13:17, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * Vandalism aside, CP is more or less Godwin's Law in action. Sad, yet funny. ENorman 13:58, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * CP is a fusion of Poe and Godwin's laws. As you approach the fringes of fundamentalism, Hitler comparison frequency approaches infinity, and it becomes impossible to tell which Hitler comparisons are real and which are parody. - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 15:05, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Glorpus
To whomever created the short-lived CP account EdGlorpus, nice job. I had forgotten my pet name for the beast, though I'm glad to see someone else hasn't. I think I'll revive it and see if it catches on. DickTurpis 16:20, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Out of place credulity
This article TerryH is writing is all sorts of win. Is TerryH an Atlantis/UFO/Wisdom of the ancients believing nutcase? Or is he just willing to go with any source as long as it contradicts what real scientists think? I know from memory that at least some of the things listed are proven frauds, I wouldn't be surprised if all the others were either frauds or simply made up. I mean seriously, listing crystal skulls... Sometimes even Conservapedia sysops have the power to amaze me with the limits of their credulity. --JeevesMkII 16:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * Three words: "antediluvian laboratory chimera" --Sid 16:51, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hahaha. "Not now Noah! Can't you see I'm working on my monkey with five arses?" --JeevesMkII 16:57, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * "The report in 1572 of a six-inch nail found in Peru and presented to the Viceroy of Peru as a gift(1) might be the oldest OOPart report on record." Well, any true Christian knows where that six-inch nail must have come from! w:Image:CorcovadofotoRJ.jpg --Marty 21:51, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Oh come on now ...
I hold that whoever votes the Evil-is-absence-of-God-WIGO up is a moron. The talk page post doesn't even say it was Einstein, and whether or not that actually has happened to any professor anywhere is insignificant. It's more like a parable, and meant to be appreciated as such. <font weight="normal" color="red">Etc 17:21, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I agree but note how the professor values are included implicitly & the teenager (?) is right. It would be more like a traditional parable if they were the other way around. fröhlich"gay" or "happy" 17:25, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * And why doesn't the professor point out, that by the student's own poor reasoning skills he's ruled out the possibility that Good is the absence of God, as both are equally valid conclusions based on this absurd premise. EternalCritic 17:44, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Which WIGO are we tslking about here? -- 17:52, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * "Good work Ekeegan, that situation that never happened is really compelling evidence." <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:43, 8 January 2009 (EST)

A fair point Etc, although I myself didn't actually know the parable was linked with Einstein, I added it originally because it was placed under the title of Student Values when of course the exchange is fictitious. Jammy 18:26, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * (As a note, I was the one who added the Snopes link to emphasize the "Not true" part.) It may be a nice motivational story for True Believers, but the entire thing is apparently a copy-paste job except for the very last line, which still makes it an urban legend/myth, just like things like "Atheists are petitioning the FCC to get religious broadcasting banned from American airwaves". Posting it as if it actually happened (which is what happened, what with it being called "Student Values" and all) is misleading at best. --Sid 20:34, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think it's from a Jack Chick tract. It's his style right on. -- 21:54, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nearly, except Einstein was a Jew, and would therefore naturally be the antagonist of the piece. --JeevesMkII 00:18, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I looked at this and thought "murder is evil, but if evil is just the lack of good, then murder is just the lack of not murdering rather than an actual act itself, so murder can't exist" Really. It doesn't make much sense unless what you would call evil is actually ONLY the lack of action. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:27, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Gratification, sweet gratification
I have been out of circulation for a month, spending my holidays in the far south of New Zealand (and hiking tramping the Milford Track - easily the most beautiful part of the world I have seen remembering that it must be beautiful despite the lack of autumn foliage) and it is so wonderful to come back and see Andy totally pwned by Bugler, Tim and a rash of excellent parting shots. Makes my heart fill with joy and makes the clots in my brain throb with gratification. Ace McWickedThe Liquid Room 17:31, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Welcome back! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:51, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Many thanks Human. I shall be around for awhile now but have another two holidays coming up and a trip north to see an Iron Maiden concert but nonetheless - yes I am back and pleased to be so. Ace McWickedThe Liquid Room 17:57, 8 January 2009 (EST)

A lesson in literature from RodWeathers
http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal_literary_bias&diff=605478&oldid=604779 Jammy 18:37, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Looks like he's getting a bit desperate since he lost his banhammer. Too bad Andy sorta-kinda-maybe caught on. RW could have been the next Bugler (with all due respect to Fret, of course). -- 20:07, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * That page pisses me off so much.-<font color="#000066" >Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum

Thanks
For the mention. Im Ekeegan ( I mistook the name and initial rule :p ) and I'm...either flattered or insulted. But thanks for the mention! &mdash; Unsigned, by: TimidCentrist / talk / contribs


 * You're welcome! Thanks for dropping by.  I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted, either.  Hope you don't get banhammered as a result of this visit.--Simple 20:03, 8 January 2009 (EST)


 * Oops, forgot about their policy regarding this site. TimidCentrist 20:48, 8 January 2009 (EST) P.S. Squee!! RationalWiki mentioned me!
 * "squee" seems rather rodenty to me! Toast 20:50, 8 January 2009 (EST)

What a fucking moron
Andy redefines all sorts of stupid. I mean, Ken is stupid, but no one has ever thought he was anything else. He's your classic dope who will never achieve anything. Andy has a degree from Harvard. From now on whenever I meet someone with a Harvard degree, I will assume they are of below average intelligence, until they can prove otherwise. DickTurpis 22:35, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can anyone explain what in the hell his problem with black holes is? Racism? - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 22:42, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * Andy is so close to outing himself as a parodist bent on destroying his mother's life's work it's almost jubilating! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:44, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's actually almost plausible. The only other explanation is that he's drunk 24/7. -- 00:02, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I seem to have a tendency to elicit responses that seem to have a tendency to wind up here. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
 * Anyways, this and the Ed "HIV" Poor drama suggests to me that parodists could have a hell of a time decrying other well-established scientific facts: e.g. the influenza vaccine works not because of the deactivated viruses, but because of the cholesterol in the eggs used in its manufacturing, and special interest groups falsified research suggesting the cholesterol in eggs is harmful in order to make sure more people would need the "vaccine," something that Big Immunology doesn't want you to know! &mdash; Unsigned, by: Commodore Guff / talk / contribs

A Question of Usership
We all have a great laugh at the ongoing insanity of CP's handful of contributors and ample parodist doomsquad, but a question just occurred to me. Does anyone, beyond Andy's doomed homeschools, actually read any of the conservapedia articles? Is there a single person on earth who looks articles up on CP and reads through them? Do CP's most proficient editors even do so, or is it entirely an excuse to write about crap they can't get away with on any sane website. Ken loves to think people read his articles, yet methinks no one ever would, not even CPeople. - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 22:58, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * It is abundantly clear that no one on earth uses CP as an encyclopedia. People read it to laugh at it, or out of curiosity, but other than "what do the wacko fundies think about this topic" no one actually looks up information on it. It will never ever be a serious alternative to Wikipedia. DickTurpis 23:01, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * But the question is do THEY even use it as an encyclopedia, given that it's woefully inadequate in all fields not related to atheism, black holes, and atheists doing homosexual things with blacks' holes. - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 23:04, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * On the One News Now (AFA) forums I have seen a few reference it.Netharian 23:05, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have no idea what that is. Links? DickTurpis 23:11, 8 January 2009 (EST)
 * No links, they shut the forums down. One News Now is the "news" site of the American Family Association. I guess they got sick of us "libruls" always destroying their retarded readers.Netharian 01:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)

I have genuinely learned from Conservapedia; I was able to use 'arboreal' in a crossword recently :)
 * I have actually gained a lot of actual knowledge from reading CP, especially about US history and politics. Although, I usually learn by assuming that whatever I read is the opposite of reality. <font weight="normal" color="red">Etc 08:20, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * If talk page comments from people who were subsequently blocked count, then I've learned quite a bit too. NightFlare 10:03, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Some of the entries on some subjects (e.g. historical, geographical) are factual & fairly balanced, + more concise reading than the WP equivalent. These articles are either plagiarised, or the work of some of the lesser known but more dedicated CP editors.  It's obvious that the main players aren't interested in proper encyclopedia content so much as pursuing their own moronic vendettas and promoting their own agendas.   12:43, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's been a great education into the social dynamics of authoritarian fringe groups. --Gulik 03:31, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Bye Bye HelpJazz
TK finally does the deed. fröhlich"gay" and "happy" 01:08, 9 January 2009 (EST)

[merged from below]

Looks like TK is jealous. - User   01:12, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Look like TK has also finally found Lynus' edits to the mental strength essay. He must be reading us again. Fuck off TK. - User   01:16, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Now my double indent looks weird fröhlich, also what is with the TK style dot Icewedge? - User   01:21, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Maybe I am TK. -- Icewedge // talk     01:47, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Knew it. - User   01:35, 9 January 2009 (EST)


 * So, the block reason was: "Admin/sysop/member of groups causing harm to CP", yet he is not an Admin here . What is Terry talking about? Other wiki/forum/blog/group, or just making stuff up? --  Icewedge // talk     01:47, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Are you intentionally dissembling, Ice? Toast 01:32, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Are you referring to my timestamp being stuck in the past, or my disregard for the indentation scheme, or.....? -- Icewedge // talk 01:47, 6 November 1999 (EST)
 * this. (although it is strange that someone elsewhere has a stuck timestamp) Toast 01:44, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I see. I obviously don't hang around here enough any more. -- Icewedge // talk 01:47, 6 November 1999 (EST)
 * Nice touch, to disable e-mail! And the deletion of the user-page was nearly 	instantaneous... Is PJR next? LArron 01:28, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I like how he feels the need to protect every page he deletes, like anyone is going to bother to try to recreate cp:User talk:HelpJazz/MaySep08. -- Icewedge // talk 01:47, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Asshole is burning the archives. Not a big fan of transparency is old TK. - User   01:35, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Now that is Stalinist! Shades of Orwell. Toast 01:41, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Lynus thinks TK and Jpatt are fucktards. /wave Netharian 01:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Looks like this is what got you Lynus. - User   02:08, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yep, I don't know how our resident infiltrators can keep from blowing their loads on that site. I just don't have the self-control. Netharian 02:18, 9 January 2009 (EST)

(undent - Arthur's bro)I find patience, alcohol and large amounts of mescaline helps, especially when editing something close to Andy's heart. --PsyGremlinWhut? 02:34, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * You need to work hard to become a professional like ConservapediaUndergroundResistor. - User   02:35, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I find solace in putting dirty messages in the EXIF and IPTC data fields of images of images that my sock asks people to upload. EXIF shows up when you look at the expanded headers of the image on wikimedia, but IPTC doesn't. I'm willing to bet there are some alpha channel masks akin to the original Conservapedia logo on there too, but those aren't me. --Shagie 02:55, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * What is the story with the vandalism in the old logo? That was way before my time. - User   03:21, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not vandalism: a tyop: TRUSWORTHY. fröhlich"gay" and "happy" 03:24, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not the one Andy made a dick of himself with the constitution one. - User   03:26, 9 January 2009 (EST)


 * And a query on google brings up our archives - Talk:Conservapedia/Archive1. There is also  though the image on wikipedia is gone. (Heh, looking at where the current image is in use brings up  --Shagie 04:00, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, the logo thing was before "The Trusworthy Engyclopedia™" debacle. See Conservapedia:Timeline. I've uploaded an enhanced easy-read version. <font color=Blue>Генгис    08:01, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * [[Image:BusyBeeTK.png|100px]]


 * TK was quite busy... LArron 03:11, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * It seems being an administrator is what counts. TK is a user here as is HelpJazz. The stuff about administrators here suggests he just might have wanted to be a bureaucrat.  TK playing a game of, “I can but you can’t.”  Well HelpJazz there are better websites to edit. Proxima Centauri 14:00, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Come on Ken
At least bother to. Honestly he just doesn't put the effort in these days. The picture is currently on the main page by the way. Well - you can never have enough Hitler can you? StarFish 10:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * He seems to be cycling the hitler pics more or less daily at the moment. Maybe he's trying to out wandal the wandals? Hey, Ken. How about some self-referential Hitler action? Put a picture of a MOAR HITKERed CP page on the front page. --JeevesMkII 11:59, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * And the constant back-and-forth with the Hitler pictures in all locations count as his Great Contributions. So whenever somebody runs to Andy to complain about Ken's idiocy, he will say "Look at all his contribs! He contributes more than you, so he is also more correct than you!" No wonder that Ken never uses the Preview button and hits the "Save page" button after every minor tweak! --Sid 16:24, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Random Thought
I wonder how this will be received. It's a great book for anyone who's never read it, and I still have my copy from college. --SpinyNorman 12:43, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I almost wigoed that. Then I saw you wrote it, so I figured, why call attention to it. EternalCritic 12:58, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks for the consideration. I was afraid it would be treated as a honeypot for parodists, but both conservatives and non-conservatives on CP could claim it as helpful to their cause.  Claims by the former may break a few irony meters, though - better upgrade while you have time.  --SpinyNorman 13:24, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's an excellent book, and one I can support without ANY politics involved, aside from my pathological distrust of USA Today. --Gulik 03:35, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Black holes
While it's mostly the work of parodists, the whole "black holes don't exist!" crap at CP is pretty funny. I love it how they say that since you can't see a black hole there is no proof they exist, while Andy simultaneously insists that atheists don't believe in anything they can't see (like love). DickTurpis 12:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * How can someone who spends his life with his head up his ass not believe in black holes? /snark Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 13:13, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm going to venture that since has such a problem with Einstein that anything and everything that AE's theories might include are wrnog simply because of the source, who, as we all know now, (by virture of having read the cp article above), was nothing more than a plagiaristic hack who traded his jew soul for tenure and fame. CЯacke ®
 * That and the magazine sales. Don't forget the magazine sales. --JeevesMkII 14:10, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * What a Schlafly: A  black hole is a theoretical mass with an escape velocity greater than the speed of light. There is no direct evidence that they actually exist.  Some scientists claim to have identified black holes based on circumstantial evidence.
 * Why does he stop with black holes? He should rephrase the articles on electrons, too: An  electron is a theoretical mass with a negative charge. There is no direct evidence that they actually exist.  Some scientists claim to have identified electrons based on circumstantial evidence. LArron 14:30, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * It wasn't AE that came up with black holes though... it was John Michell in 1784 who theorized of something so dense/massive that the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. Black holes (known then as wp:dark stars) are allowed by Newtonian physics.  Relativity nails down the mass required and some other properties (the amount that light bends as it goes around).  Michell was predicicting a mass of 500 soloar masses, while relativity says you only need 1.44 (the Chandrasekhar limit).  Another thing that relativity does is allows for gravitational points.  Nevertheless, it is silly to say that atheists believe in black holes whole theists don't.  In the meantime, anyone who wants to argue about the existence of a black hole can point to S2 - a star that is orbiting a very massive object at the center of our galaxy.  Its mean distance from SgtA* is 5.5 light days and it orbits once every 15 years.  Knowing the brightness of S2 (its a B1V), you can then calculate its age and mass.  Knowing the mass and orbital velocity of one companion of a binary system then lets you compute the other.  This puts SgtA* at about 3.7 million solar masses.  Observations have narrowed down the diameter of the object from 17 light hours (120 AU) to 6.25 light hours (45 AU).  The most recent VLBA measurements have narrowed it down to 44 million kilometers (the orbit of mercury is 46 million kilometers). I don't see this as very circumstantial or theoretical. --Shagie 15:00, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * It wasn't Einstein who came up with black holes in general relativity anyway. He came up with the equations explaining GR, but Schwarzschild solved said equations which lead to the idea of a black hole. And he did it whilst serving on the Russian front in WW1 too. alt 16:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)

The name "BHarlan" is new to me. But I'm suspecting he's a parodist. Do we know ? Barraki 16:31, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't see how he couldn't be. The writing smacks of poking fun at Andy's most charming qualities. - Lardashe
 * "Why are black people still poor?" You can't create an article like that and not be a parodist. Right?....ScottA 16:43, 9 January 2009 (EST)


 * My vote's for parodist. He made a splash by putting some fairly racist content on the cite, but wrapped in enough CP-approved conservatism that it held back criticism.  If he's a parodist he's not one of the subtler ones.  --SpinyNorman 16:53, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Patently obvious parodist. He takes the Bugler/RW route, but throws in lines about losing credibility which are lovely Andy-copying. Good on you, BH! - Gentleman Publius (V)&lt;,&quot;,&gt;(V) 23:49, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Ed and Barbie
The best part about Ed's Barbie idiocy is that he quotes a song mocking Barbie as an example of how bad a role model Barbie is. Maybe I'll add some Dead Kennedys lyrics to Reagan's page to show what a bad guy he was. DickTurpis 14:25, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I thought 'Another of Ed's fantasies' would have been a better caption. Remember his articles on that movie? EddyP 14:27, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * When I read stuff like that, my brain sort of blanks out for a few seconds ... I think it's rebooting itself somehow. True Ed Poor WTF moment. <font weight="normal" color="red">Etc 15:06, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Now come on. Talking about sinful 'sex' is fun. Try doing it.  That's better.  You know that's what you Conservapedians really want to do.  Proxima Centauri 03:14, 11 January 2009 (EST)

BHarlan
If you're on RW BHarlan: You're trying too hard. Way too obvious. EternalCritic 16:39, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * ...and yet, Andy seems to look on him favorably. I think the man is incapable of learning from his mistakes.  Phentari 16:46, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Andy keeps his mind open where parody is concerned. --SpinyNorman 16:55, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Countdown for block rights? EternalCritic 17:17, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * After Bugler and RodW got theirs taken away? I think it might be a while til block rights get given out again. alt 17:19, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Do not underestimate the stupidity of the assfly. EternalCritic 17:33, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * But since this Bugler incident, he's picking his....um "friends" very carefully. Notice he's not nearly as quick to praise his followers as before.  I think BHarlan will come to light before he gets rights... but I thought Bugler and RW were so obvious it would be the end of them, so I don't have a track record on these things.... <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  17:43, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I will grant you TK will probably snipe him before Andy climbs into bed with him. EternalCritic 17:50, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think that Andy honestly swallows anything Conservatively-swinging. Or he's keeping an "open mind" like he seems to be mandating to everybody recently. So open, it fell out and he lost it. ENorman 17:56, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * My prediction: BHarlan is not going to be harmed - at least not in the near future. After all, even DeanS is very shy about doing anything: He identifies BHarlan as sharing an IP with this guy (who was banhammered by Bugler) and... merely bans the IP while allowing BHarlan to continue posting, apparently with a new IP. This tells me that he's unofficially a higher-ranking editor already. --Sid 18:24, 9 January 2009 (EST)

He was found out a while ago:. Not sure if his account proper has been blocked, but Dean has him pegged. DickTurpis 22:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * See my post above: BHarlan merrily continued to edit as if nothing happened. As a comparison, keep in mind that the usual "an admin has you in his sights" reaction is "banhammer for all accounts involved and IP- or range-ban". While Dean may technically tap his foot, he either approves of BHarlan frustrating users who try to insert facts or doesn't want to ban somebody who supports/emulates Andy. --Sid 23:06, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Definitely a parodist, but as long as he toes the party line, his edits will be welcomed. A great number of Fretful's edits are still being used as policy setting. Toast 23:55, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Bugler and HelpJazz
Has anyone noticed that their user pages and talk pages were deleted and then protected from creation? --" 18:22, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * In one word: Memoryhole. These people don't exist, never existed and will never exist. Move along, citizen, nothing to see here. Trust The Computer. The Computer is Your Friend. --Sid 18:29, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I understand. Bugler and HelpJazz do not exist. They never existed. Their contribution and block log pages are mirages. --" 18:30, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * And soon, Aziraphale will also never have existed. --Sid 18:39, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Possibly, though TK has protected his talk page so that Az can't respond to TK's last bit. And there have yet to be blocks and deletions.  Az might have to go say "Hitler never mandated vaccines" on Andy's talk page to get banned and deleted. --Shagie 23:58, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * fernoklump's going the same way (can't be bothered with a link - it's becoming routine) Toast 00:46, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Fernoklump (with a lower-case 'k') was a sock I made to negotiate an infinite block. For some reason the wiki would not let me confirm my email. Anyways, my real page was deleted after I got banned. <font color="#000066" >FernoKlump <font color="#bd2433" >Mr. Assfly! Don't forget about this petition! 02:15, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I notice that some of the recent WIGOs have been completely memory holed.
 * Oceania is at war with Eurasia, Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Corryundefined 01:22, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * And the Stalinist Republic of Conservapedia rules! (Long live Party Leader Schlafly TK) (Where's that icepick?) Toast 01:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Long live the republic! -- 12:14, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Through days dark and stormy where Great Reagan led us
 * Our eyes saw the bright sun of freedom above
 * and Andy TK our Leader with faith in the People,
 * Inspired us to build up the land that we love.

Does anyone have (or remember) what Az said on TK's talk page that made TK memory hole it?

Hey, you know what I just realized? TK blocked me for the exact same reason that Rob blocked me. Maybe it's time for HelpHelpJazz...? JazzMan 07:33, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * I have grabbed the version from cache and reconstructed it to wiki markup. It's temporarily hosted here. I also got the diff images, but that'll have to wait until image uploads are up and running again. --Sid 08:19, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks, Sid! (And please tell me I'm not the only one who can't read more than three words in a row by TK without throwing up a little in my mouth?) JazzMan 12:34, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Anyone else see this?
Conservative seems to be wavering somewhat... see &mdash; Unsigned, by: 86.170.25.137 / talk / contribs

He feels a burning sensation in his hands if he types the word 'reasonable' Jammy 23:03, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Ingenuous or what?
"Mr Schlafly ... Did you create Conservapedia to try to propigate [sic] a hateful opinion of Liberalism?" Toast 00:42, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * TK STRONGMAD SMASH! The answer is yes.  Corryundefined 01:19, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * (Yawn) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * You know, that's a reply that TK uses. Corryundefined 01:46, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Heh! Toast 01:22, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * As easy as it is to hate him, TK does the work of ten Rationalwikis. If I had to guess, it would be that TK is a parodist sock of Dawkins.  Corryundefined 01:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * And he ''puts it back!!! Toast

Essay: Best New Conservative Words
Wow. Um. WTFITS? cp:Essay:Best New Conservative Words &mdash; currently consisting of: deterrence, dumb down, filibuster, go-getter, homeschool, meritocracy, me-too, media, milquetoast, radar, wannabee [sic]. In what way are any of these words "conservative"? (Okay, I'll give Andy "dumb down" and "homeschool" but that leaves most of them. Even if we agree that Andy can also have "milquetoast media wannabe".) --Marty 01:48, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Isn't it lovely - I chortled (a subdued LOL) when I read it. Toast
 * I wonder if they're immensely powerful because they're magic words. Perhaps some combination of these is Rumpelstiltskin's true name, or the proper name of god or something. Perhaps if you say me-too milquetoast go-getter 50 times you can raise the dead or summon dragons. Or perhaps Andy has simply had a brain bleed and is now suffering mild delusions. --JeevesMkII 02:12, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Anyone want to burn a sock? Point out to Asshole that not only was the word "meritocracy" coined by a Labour Party social activist, but that he meant it pejoratively, and was intensely disappointed that it was later appropriated by others as something to strive for. -- 03:05, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * You know, this essay, combined with this piece of garbage really makes me laugh... Liberals "use excessive words or manipulative phrases in order to distort the truth" but Andy gives Conservative and Liberal values to words... I'm starting to think that deep cover liberal stuff has some merit to it. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  03:16, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Coincidentally, a certain absent jellyfish mowse figures Andy has now transcended Poe's law; if anyone had tried to pull this crap before, he would have banned them as a parodist. -- 03:23, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, if a Labour (read liberal) politician thought it was bad, then by definition it must be good. No? Toast 03:17, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Touché. -- 03:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * RADAR - an achronym for Radio Dectection And Ranging....don't quite see how the development of system for spotting aircraft at a distance leads to it being a 'conservative' word but I guess I'll just have to open my mind and learn. Mick McT 04:42, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Don't forget the use of RADAR in teh glorious liberation of the opressed people of Iraq (don't mention the oil) Toast 04:59, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yep: RADAR is used in wars -> wars contain guns -> guns are good -> war is good -> RADAR is good. Good things are conservative -> RADAR is conservative. Ta-da! --Sid 07:31, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Also, never spell it out with lower case letters - that's liberal blasphemy! <font weight="normal" color="red">Etc 08:14, 10 January 2009 (EST)

(Unindent) Ye gads, the Assfly is utterly clueless, isn't he? Radar is not a defense mechanism, it's a detection mechanism. In a war setting, it can be used to detect the enemy at long distances, and then other methods can be used to eliminate that enemy, but the radar itself is harmless to them. This is why, for example, it's used for air-traffic control systems, meteorology and terrain mapping. Indeed, although the first wide-spread use was as a method for enemy aircraft detection in WW2, the first people who were trying to develop it, such as Christian Huelsmeyer, in the 1900s, were actually thinking of other uses - such as allowing ships to detect each other in thick fog, and thus avoiding collisions, and the first known operational use of a radar system was for this purpose, in the French liner Normandie, which had one installed a few years before WW2 began. Zmidponk 18:23, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Did anyone notice that "American Dream" is on the list, given that it was apparently coined by a guy who worked for Woodrow Wilson, who himself was a Democrat? Not to mention, the original wording sounds a heck of a lot further left than Andy would read without horror. Good thing the past never happened, huh? --Kels 09:54, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * By now he's probably just searching for words that sound nice on merriam-webster and copy-pasting the dates if they are >= 1600. Oh, and productive is French, not conservative -- Nx  talk 10:08, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * More than a fourth of the entire friggin' language is French, but try telling that to Andy ("Your insubstantial contributions regarding the pure, Germanic English language have been eliminated. Godspeed! -- aschalfly") -- 12:08, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not to mention Lawyer's Latin. Toast 12:11, 10 January 2009 (EST)

What the hell is a "milquetoast"? Some kind of sandwich? -- 12:14, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * meek God-fearing -- Nx  talk 12:16, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * It's also really old-fashioned, mostly from the 30's and 40's, and stuff done in that style (Tom Waits uses the term occasionally, cf. The Piano Has Been Drinking). Generally, "effete wimp", a la George H.W. Bush. --Kels 12:44, 10 January 2009 (EST)

As has been pointed out above, some of these words seem to be other-than-conservative in origin. However, that doesn't mean Andy is wrong in calling them "conservative words." Here "conservative word" can be taken simply to mean that Andy views the word as powerful when describing "conservative" views. Consider the following analogy: The word "gay" is a "homosexual word." It's clear that some homosexuals view the word gay as powerful. It's clumsy, but not necessarily wrong.-- 14:35, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * I like the way the Assfly gives an origin date for his Conservative words. That man obviously doesn't know how dictionaries (1526) work. The date is the earliest verifiable citation known to the lexicographers (1658), so according to the Assfly, those good folk were indulging in an activity (lexicography (1680)) named after something that hadn't been invented yet. The ignorance of that man never ceases to amaze me. Auld Nick 14:45, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I notice that "quote mining" doesn't exist. Better stop doing it then, Ken. fröhlich"gay" and "happy" 22:09, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Medals
See George P is handing out "Christmas Campaign" medals. The one medal they could give which they apparently don't have is for language to Kotomi. Oh and probably to TerryH for astronomy. They're the only real encyclopaedic contributions now that Ed's got rid of all the Maths & science contributors. Toast 02:25, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is it just me or are these supah-doopah medals also invisible? Nothing appears on teh user pages. --PsyGremlinWhut? 02:59, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * here? Toast 03:13, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Smarten up, Toasty. Geo.plrd = Geoff Plourde.  <font color=Blue>Генгис    03:42, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I knew that - it just slipped through my mind-fingers-keyboard interface somehow. Toast 03:48, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeesh - if somebody gave me a medal that looked so tacky (it finally appeared), I'd go back and revert everything I'd done to earn it. --PsyGremlinWhut? 03:59, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * My eyesight's not so good. What is it -the picture on he medal that is? Toast 04:07, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * Madonna and child. Baby Jesus' head is down in the lower left; I think that's Mary's right hand above him on the left. Presumably cropped and grayscaled from a larger image. --Marty 04:15, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, I've done a blow up of it but I CAN'T UPLOAD IT BECAUSE TRENT'S STILL GOT UPLOAD TURNED OFF! (Intentional shout). It's absolutely awful! Toast 04:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * He does??? I uploaded something days ago. Did it go away again? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:10, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I'd been watching that campaign page for a while, but never figured out an interesting thing to say about it. Now I can: "that medal is appalling". <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:10, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Per Assfly
I've noticed that a number of people, TK and Conservative in particular have been performing dubious actions recently and justifying them with edit comments saying that they're pre-approved by the Assfly. Is it that the Assfly is the Machiavelli behind the curtain, puppeteering everything that goes on on CP, or is it simply that the worst elements have learned to justify their excesses by citing an authority who is too meek (oops, sorry "god fearing") to gainsay the supposed approval? --JeevesMkII 03:29, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * yes &mdash; Unsigned, by: 24.19.26.234 / talk / contribs
 * It's more or less the second option. TK and Conservative developed this gig fairly early, actually. Definitely before TK was desysop'd for the first time. They make a very specific suggestion to Andy ("I believe we should place a giant Hitler picture on the Evolution article because I believe that [name] will feature it prominently which will give us good press and [SEO talk]."), and Andy basically grunts his "Yeah, sure, whatever." unless it directly interferes with his own agenda. Then they turn around and claim that "Andy decided that it should be done exactly as I do!" and that people who oppose this would have to go to Andy (who rarely answers queries and defaults to "I trust my sysops, so if they disagree with you, you're wrong. Now contribute or be banned." in 99.99% of all cases). TK used it to push out a ton of new rules, guidelines and MOS changes during his first run as sysop ("This wasn't my decision, believe me! Andy decided it, and I merely carry out his will!"), and Ken basically uses it to justify his crazy behavior. Every now and then, TK and Ken clash, and then you basically see both of them using Andy as their excuse, which is kinda hilarious. Oh, and this is also why TK insists that Andy's decision is The Final Truth which may never be challenged. --Sid 07:27, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's amazing. Pure Weber - the routinization of charisma played out in real-time right before our eyes. -- 09:26, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * It really does remind me of Martin Bormann. DickTurpis 12:24, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Re: Got separation anxiety disorder WIGO
Not sure this is crazy enough for wigo. Is RW going to be as instantly dismissive as Conservapedia is accepting of this sort of thing? I don't think there can be much question that faith can help with a number of mental issues, after all if your anxiety results from a lack of purpose or understanding of the point of anything, than faith can be the thing to anchor you, fix that problem and let you get on with other things in life. Is it any worse that anti-depressants? they're also a crutch, they dont represent a normal state, but they may get you past an issue that's prevent you getting on with otherwise normal life. I would consider myself an atheist and wouldn't choose religion myself, but I wouldn't choose chemicals either unless I had no choice. Is there not even room for debate for a position between athiest and aschlafly which might be a good option for a lot of people?&mdash; Unsigned, by: 24.19.26.234‎ / talk / contribs
 * Well, I for one would agree with you BON. Toast 04:04, 10 January 2009 (EST)

I think the phrasing of the WIGO is making fun of the idea that depressed kids should just suck it up and "try faith", as if it were possible to believe in God just by trying. Maybe someone would like to argue that it is possible to convince oneself to believe? I think that since a whole bunch of believers presenting outside stimuli generally doesn't convert an atheist, it's highly improbable that an atheist would be able to convert himself based on what he's already gathered. Especially (or should I say "even"?) if he's mentally "disordered" at the time.

And of course we can all agree that when Aschlafly says "faith", he's not talking about a position between Aschlafly and anything. :) --Marty 04:13, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that a positive outlook can be helpful. Several studies have shown that people active in religion have many benefits. However, the issue isn't religion, it's a sense of community and family.  Aids patients who turn to religious organizations do live longer (on average) but so do patients who attend non religious group meetings and such.  The WIGO is making of fun of the fact that in Andy's mind, any issue can be solved by saying "God exists! Move on." <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  04:28, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * All variations of the good old placebo effect. --  Lily Ta, wack! 08:04, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * Faith v Depression:
 * "Don't worry, it'll all be better when you're dead"
 * "Don't worry it'll all be better after the RAPTURE"
 * "Don't worry, it's not your fault, it's all those atheists and Muslims and Hindus out there - why not go out & kill convert some?
 * Etc. Toast 09:37, 10 January 2009 (EST)

(Unindent)The real insanity is that Assfly really seems to believe, for whatever reason, that faith is some kind of panacea. He's not looking at reasons why it helps in some cases, or acknowledging that it doesn't in others. He's about as closed-minded as he could hypocritically be. EternalCritic 09:49, 10 January 2009 (EST)


 * To me his attitude seems to be wandering dangerously close to the wackos who don't treat any maladies, insisting that God will take care of them. Every year it seems who hear about some kid dying because their parents insisted on praying for them, rather than bringing them to the hospital for an appendectomy. (Its always the kid, never the adult.) DickTurpis 12:19, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I agree; whenever I see a story about some crazy shooter who kills himself, I think "I'm glad he saved us the cost of a trial and incarceration". But when I see stories about kids dying because of jackass parents, I think "why couldn't the parent's batshit crazy religion kill themselves instead"?Z3ro 12:39, 10 January 2009 (EST)
 * I suspect a number of religious crazies remove themselves from the gene pool in this manner every year. It's simply that it isn't newsworthy. When you let ignorant superstition get in the way of saving someone in your care it's tragic. When someone lets themselves die because of the same belief, they're just another losing candidate for this year's darwin awards. --JeevesMkII 13:17, 10 January 2009 (EST)

There are alot of good studies on the relationship of faith, religious community activity (with the two being discriminated from each other) and psychiatric disorders. Not as a treatment, but as a risk factor. As much as those of us that are not religious might hate to admit it, both aspects are generally a good thing (where they make a difference at all - many places they do not). On the other hand, education and intelligence generally seem to have even stronger protective effects, so most of the people Andy hates are probably better off than the people in his classes (not because they are stupid, necessarily, but can you call that education?) <font color="teal" face="comic sans ms">dream <font color="purple" face="comic sans ms">ing <font color="Gray" face="comic sans ms">Hail Eris! 10:08, 11 January 2009 (EST)


 * The problem with most of these studies is that they have been designed to look at the religion without removing it from the social aspects. Having just finished Ben Goldacre's excellent book Bad Science I am more inclined to queston the methodologies of many of these so-called studies. I think most psychologists will confirm that humans are social animals so being part of a supportive group and having support from one's peers is crucial to mental welfare. (And it's not just humans, many animals share similar traits.) If people feel isolated and unloved (and they can be believers as well as un-believers) then that is when they start to have mental problems. It's no surprise that all of those nutters who go around shooting up schools, post-offices, churches, etc. tend to be loners with a grievance. I acknowledge that religion gives many people a social focus which can be supportive. However, these networks have developed over centuries and there is little in the way of secular alternatives that doesn't meet with the derision of mass media such as all those male-bonding groups or even routine access to counsellors and psychotherapists. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:14, 11 January 2009 (EST)

I guess I'll put this comment down here, but it's a reaction to the initial post. "Is it any worse that anti-depressants? they're also a crutch, they dont represent a normal state, but they may get you past an issue that's prevent you getting on with otherwise normal life." If you have ever known people with chronic depression, you wouldn't say that. I have a friend whose life simply becomes unbearable without Prozac. With it, she's fine, and what I would call the "normal" her. She'll probably always need it - the depression is not because of some "issue" to get past - it's a chemical imbalance in her brain. Pretty much ditto goes for an old friend of mine, except he uses a gradually tweaked cocktail of several SSRIs and anti-anxiety meds. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:22, 11 January 2009 (EST)