Talk:Biblical longevity

"Why there should be a record about secret of longevity"

I can't really understand this header, and also a lot of that section is difficult to follow... 01:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure this was ready to leave the sandbox and walk on its own, but hopefully it can be salvaged? 01:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm... I was thinking something is going on because selling secrets of longevity would be very profitable(even the fake ones, see China/faith healing and such); if people notices that guy lives ridiculously long at least some of them would record his lifestyles to the finest details to determine why he manage to live that long (Analogy: anyone lived for more than 200 years will be likely forcible put into a lab for observation or something).   02:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, but you don't address any of that in the article. Also, the grammar in this article is atrocious.  Is there any chance I can convince you to move it back to your sandbox, deleting it here for now, and I'll try to help you massage it into something ready for the mainspace?  04:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow. RationalWiki meets TimeCube.--Bobbing up 09:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)--Bobbing up 09:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * it should be here. See if it looks any better.   13:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I have excluded the conspiracy theory part for the moment. I still think something should eventually be there though. Oh well. It should be here if anyone wants to participate. 15:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Also I don't know where should I put in for the problem that Shem dies after Abraham and other similar problems. 15:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Bizarre
Having been away for a While I find that Rational Wiki has excelled even its usual High Standards and produced something which is Worthy of a Poe Award.

Assuming this is not a Parody of something (what?) my first Objection is that it is not Clear that RW understands what a "Command" is. Because the way it is Used in this article is Rather Weird. But if we Go With The Flow and assume that God "commanded" that people live no more than 120 years after the flood - why should RW be Surprised if people Disobeyed this "command"? God commands many thing in the Bible but HE also gave people Free Will. People have disobeyed many of His comandments. Why should RW express Special Surprise they they disobeyd this one?

Later there seems to be an awful lot of Rather Incomprehensible grandfathering.

Frankly I don't know if this is:


 * A Poe.
 * A parody.
 * A mistake.
 * Something which People here really believe - Please Tell Me it's not So.--Tolerance 18:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Change command to statement? scripture? &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 19:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and number two, your argument is kind of hilarious. God put a limit on how long people could live...but they have free will so they can choose to ignore it...lol @ ur god &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 19:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This article is mostly the project of an editor whose first language is not English, so some of it needs to be made clearer. However, the point is fairly simple and easy to grasp - apres le deluge, Goddy proclaimed human lifetime would be limited to 120 years (correct?).  However, there are two classes of exceptions - one, people who lived beyond that who were born in antediluvian days, and so were possible grandfathered into their longer lives, and in some ways more "importantly", people who have lived longer than 120 years long since then.  It may be a small point, but it's an interesting one.  20:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's put Tolerance's argument number two somewhere in the article as well. (Perhaps statement would be a better word, or simply "From the scripture").  20:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "We'll go easy on it and assume any antediluvian records of secrets to longevity were destroyed in the flood"
 * I don't quite understand what this sentence is supposed to mean --  Nx / talk 20:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's me counting only those guys post-flood, mostly due to me working on some kind of conspiracy theory on it (that some record of "Secret to longevity" should exist somewhere). Will fix in a moment.   21:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) Ah, but it's simple: simply disobey His Commandment, that's all ;) --  Nx / talk 21:11, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * IT still says "Command" which is sort of Weird. And there's still all this Grandfathering. And now some Conspiracy Theory! Do tell More! Who is Conspiring?  To what end?  About what?  This really is Intresting--Tolerance 21:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can I Nominate this for "Best of Comedy"?--Tolerance 21:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding conspiracy, there are 4 things on the list:
 * In morden times if they discover someone living for like 500 years they'll almost surely put him in a lab (perhaps against his will) to study how this person lived for like 500 years. (People are interested in longevity)
 * Languages should be available at that time, assuming Tower of Babel happens before God's call to Abraham (Abraham dies before Shem). (So whatever recorded can be understood)
 * The descendants of Ham and Japheth aren't living more than 120 years, therefore some of them would find out someone in the tribe is living for ridiculously long. (Existence of a lot of observers and a few specimens)
 * people have a tendency of recording weird observations (example: the Bible) and attached weird relations to things (See Jacob and genetics),  (People are interested in recording relation of things, real or otherwise)
 * Hence, such percular observations should be recorded somewhere regarding on how the longevity is achieved, whether it is real or not.
 * Does that sounds like something one can write conspiracy theories on?  21:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * (EC, to Tolerance) You are Missing the Point.  The Bible lists 120 as the life expectancy, or 70-80 (Psalms 90:10), yet contradicts this in Several Places, with individuals living for nearly a Thousand Years.  This is All Very Well if you accept that the Old Testament is a group of Folk Tales. If you believe that It is the Word of God, you may struggle to make Sense of this Discrepancy.   21:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually Looking at this Again it says no more than 1) God placed an upper limit on human age and 2) the Bible says that some People later lived Longer than this Limit. It might be Interesting as part of the "Alleged Biblical Contradictions" article (or whatever it's called) but not his rather weird article with possible  "Conspiracy Theory" overtones. It's just Bizarre.--Tolerance 21:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But hey! Please don't Delete it! More on the conspiracy Theory Please!--Tolerance 21:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Done.  21:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! The ideas that God "commands" people how Long to Live! The fact that "somebody" believes that there is a "conspiracy theory" which explains .... errr... well ...  explains Something Very Important! A First Class RW article!--Tolerance 22:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a conspiracy: we can simply disobey God and live forever! And the government doesn't tell us, so we all die because we think we should die at the age of 120. But no more! Thanks to you Tolerance, we can now simply disobey God and live for a thousand years!!!one! --  Nx / talk 23:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The 120 year thing may have been a comment by God that there was 120 years until the coming flood. The Psalms about 70 years is not God personally cutting mans lifespan cause he would not be that mean. Its storytelling . I raised both those with Phillip on aSK, probably now gone, and I didnt follow his reply :(   Hamster (talk) 22:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Cat
If this is a Conspiracy Theory about errrr.... Something. Why was the Conspiracy theory cat removed?--Tolerance 22:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As no Answer has been forthcoming I have but the cat back In. Please comment here before removing cat.--Tolerance 22:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How 'bout you tell us why the cat should be there in the first place? --Kels 23:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the cat is removed because the details of the conspiracy theory isn't filled in yet.  23:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean this? All I'm seeing is a claimed conspiracy theory that apparently nobody believes in (or at least nobody is mentioned) and you spend a fair amount of time proving never existed in the first place.  --Kels 23:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Having read much of Kxyzab's work, I think I find it easier to parse where he is coming from (or not). He is making a "joke" about the issue.  Pre-flood (and godly admonition) people lived for hundreds of years.  Some of them, post flood, still lived for hundreds more years.  Surely those around them would wonder what their secret of longevity was?  And inquire about it, or at least record that it seemed strange to them?  The "conspiracy" is the cover-up of any discussions of this anomaly.  At least, I think that's where he's going with it.  It's actually funnier, IMHO, in K's amusingly fractured syntax. And, Tolly, glad you like this article.  K put a lot of work into it.  00:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah... it just sounds better with someone who writes properly, unlike myself.  02:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks K. I am actually beginning to enjoy your version of English. As I do many other peoples.   03:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Water shell above the firmament
One theory put forward is that before the flood the earth was surrounded by a shell of water, possibly in the form of magnetic ice pieces suspended by the earths magnetic field. (stay with me now) This shell filtered out harmful, UV, xray, cosmic rays and anything harmful. It also increased the air pressure and oxygen content of the air. Healing would have been vastly improved, like living in a hyperbaric chamber. ( gratuitous comment on how well that worked for Michael Jackson). Long and healthy life spans, greater muscles and increased height would have resulted.Adam and Noah were tall men. After the GREAT FLOOD this water shell was gone, now oceans , so all the harmful radiation gets through, healing is slower, and the air is thinner. (lower pressure etc ) It all fits so wonderfully well !!! praise baby Jebus ! (who never ordered anyone killed unlike his Dad) Hamster (talk) 22:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Kent Hovind was a big proponent of the idea. Acei9 22:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Youtube spreads the stupid Hamster (talk) 22:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

According to the Biblical literalists we are all descended from Noah's three children.

Therefore much inbreeding immediately thereafter and negative effects thereof, which outweighed longevity genes influence.

Going by the genetic-related comments on 101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe genetic diversity should have increased since Noah's time, so the longevity genes might be being 'unmasked' again.

If, of course, you believe their arguments - but 120+ #does# seem to be the present limit of human life. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:38, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

How to use your free will to live longer than God commands
By not killing yourself.

In other words, yes, God expected the patriarchs to commit suicide before their 121st birthday. They disobeyed.

Is it really any more absurd than anything else literalists have come up with? 71.162.43.141 (talk) 12:22, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure "command" is really the right word. I think God simply made a mistake.--BobSpring is sprung! 21:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Hold on a sec
This article as it stands seems... I don't know how to phrase it, inappropriate? The Bible is filled to the brim with people who apparently lived to be hundreds of years old, and we have an article pointing out that some of them happened to be after god apparently put an age cap on the world. Shouldn't this be a part of broader article on the laughable lifespans from the Bible? Because I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that there's something about our DNA that degrades over time making much past 100 years pretty much impossible.--Token Conservative (talk) 01:07, 1 March 2013 (UTC)