RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive2

Post the Karajou incident, cleaning other last names
Archived, live thread preserved.

Lessons to learn
Do not even let TK get his foot in the door, set any mail from his address to go straight into the trash folder, do not even let it touch your inbox. Block his IM accounts. If you do not do this then do not under any circumstances come to RW and act as he surrogate for anything. If he wants something done on RW he can come himself and discuss it publicly. 216.221.87.112 11:37, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not bad for a BON. :) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (with butter!) talk to Toast  11:41, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * 'Tis Trent.  Phantom Hoover  12:26, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Mea Culpa: should have recognised his IP & his editing style. :) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (with butter!)  talk to Toast  12:32, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * What's TK email address?  Phantom Hoover  12:53, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm certainly not putting that put, for your own safety :). And I don't want anyone to think I was acting as TK's agent. He asked me to pull his info, true, but I agreed to the request because it's reasonable and, more importantly, in line with my principles.- 13:00, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have socks on CP with my email address, so I can contact him anyway. I can't put someone on my trash list unless I know their address.  Phantom Hoover  16:03, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * TK has often had his email addy on his CP user page. Dig it up at your own risk.  ħ uman  17:21, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Would anyone mind if this thread was archived
NOW? (with butter!) talk to Toast  13:58, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Done.  Phantom Hoover  16:18, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * What's with the early closing? Archive the the thread, not the whole darned page! Генгис    18:07, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I thought rather a lot seemed to go bye-bye...  ħ uman  19:00, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Last orders sure come early around here. -- 18:36, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's ok, opening time is 3.14 minutes after closing time. As far as your orders, see the "retardaunt" section below.  ħ uman  19:00, 15 January 2009 (EST)


 * I don't know what is the general consensus on this, but I agree with AKjeldsen that we should be careful on self-censorship, and with Pi on CP sysops' real names and general info (?), maybe just the general area where they live in. Really, is there anything wrong with saying that Karajou is Brian A. Macdonald from Murfreesboro, TN? Or Geo's real name? JJ4e I christen thee Sir Annoyz Alot 19:45, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Restaraunt
Should we have a place where people could 'order' articles? --" 18:05, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * No.  18:06, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Why not? And would people please stop saying no to anything I say? --" 18:07, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nobody is under any obligation to write articles, so "ordering" would be pointless. People write articles on what they are interested in; not what other folks tell them to write.  There are already thousands of links for wanted pages, which are created whenever you create a link to an article that doesn't exist yet.  If there's an article you think we should have, the best thing is to start it yourself, even if it's just a stub.  If people are interested in the subject, they will join in to finish it.  If they're not, they won't.   18:13, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * How about a place where people can order food, like a restaurant? Just pub food would be fine, although a couple of daily gourmet specials would be nice. Oh, and some chips and a bowl of bean CURd for dipping?  ħ uman  18:58, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I can make an excellent bow-tie alfredo asiago. And my salads are fantastic. --" 20:18, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can you take a picture of them and upload them into the menu section?  ħ uman  20:36, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Next time I make them, yes. However, that kind of stuff is expensive. --" 20:37, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, I didn't mean "this very minute", just when it's convenient.  ħ uman  20:44, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Returning to our muttons. In all fairness(!) I suspect that CUR meant "suggest" articles rather than "order" articles. (Crumpets) and butter'' 21:58, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * That is what I meant. And why was my menu deleted? --" 12:09, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * because it was silly (& taking up room on the chalkboard) at a guess. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) and butter'' 12:13, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Put it on a new chalkboard here in this section.  ħ uman  15:13, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Here's mine.  17:14, 17 January 2009 (EST)  ->

(unident) How do you make it align left? Then it could be part of the bartop. --" 18:17, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * <- You mean like this? No, I don't think it really belongs on the bar tpo.   18:29, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Trust me, it'll look good. --" 18:30, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * OK, but what's with the sci-fi stuff? & What's a Preztal?  18:35, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * It doesn't look good you have displaced the TOC. - User   18:36, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Typo. And instead of plasma leak soup, it's plasma leek soup. And instead of Caesar salad, it's cylon salad. As for the TOC, I've brought that up on the template talk page. I can't find the code, otherwise I'd fix it. --" 18:37, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * You know - my two cents - I think the menu is pretty silly however, if we are going to keep it, can we at least get rid of the sci-fi references? They are really quite lame. Ace McWickedRevolt 15:33, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * The sci-fi jokes are there because one person likes them. Shall we all put in jokes about our favourite topics? I'll start with some Free Jazz references. Yours trulyDear Sir 15:39, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Do you have trouble with tribbles? Toasted or teriyake?  Tribbles are tasty! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:41, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Ambiance
I am sorely tempted to use that nifty music toy to link through to an mp3 or two of mine... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:07, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'd love to hear your stuff. TheoryOfPractice 19:10, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks... the mp3s are here. I added "Out of Beer" to the jukebox for fun, although "Believe" is more "on-mission"... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:15, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's one way to completely change my image of someone. Listening again! [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (with butter!) talk to Toast  00:46, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Interesting... I'm curious how your image of me was changed (and what you've listened to so far). PS, the "album" is certified to have gone "paper" - I sold a copy a year or two ago... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  13:52, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I demand an answer toot sweet!!! (that's Frunch, in case your babelfish is borken) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:24, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * No one answered, I stampie my footie and will proceed to defame you all via sitewide angronolysms! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:04, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Stargate Copyright
Might as well fight it out here. Now, what do us poor Stargate fans do? I say userboxes aren't in violation. Human says they are. Neither of us are lawyers (that I know of). What gives? --" 20:35, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well the "Marks" one is cited as a screencap, so no way can we (as in you) use it. The other one has been discussed on its relevant talk page, and it would seem that no matter what anyone says, you persist in edit warring instead of awaiting some sort of consensus (even when a clear "NO" consensus seems to be arising.) And what's a "Stargate," anyway? TheoryOfPractice 20:40, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * The BEST TV show ever! By the way, this picture is approximately five years old. The series is over. And the picture can be easily found on any site that mentions Rodney. --" 20:41, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * That doesn't make it legal to post it here, in a way that does not constitute "fair use". Please go research "fair use" with your giant brain, okay? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:46, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Human, how is CUR's Stargate image particularly different from the Seargent Pepper, John Lennon, Helena Bonham Carter, Spongebob Squarepants, Godfather and Monty Python images in userboxes on your page? I'm sick of the massive double standard about fair use, where anything newly uploading gets jumped on but lots of longstanding & prominent violations get ignored. Either we clean up the site properly & get rid of all the Simpsons & Family Guy stills used irrelevantly around the site, or we relax about it & let inconsequential stuff like this go. I'm inclined towards the latter option. 22:05, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm inclined towards cleaning up rather than bustin' copyright law - even if it means I have to remake some of my userboxen. PS, you forgot to list the JC Superstar image I have on a box ;)  But, yeah, there are probably thousands of examples, you only mentioned the ones you found on a quick search. The only difference is that the image is "hi rez", I think most of our silly userboxen images are loaded at about 50 x 50 (not that that makes them ok).  Maybe the only problem is that curDLE brains is a twat, and draws attention to every stupid thing he does?  <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:23, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Say, Human, is there any chance of convincing you to tune the insults down by, I don't know, 20% or so? Just try it out for a little while? Proper conflict resolution and all that? -- 22:30, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Sure... wait, what insults? Sorry if my description based on evidence seems harsh, but seriously.  Also, I note you didn't respond to my agreeing with the ferret (re: cleanup).  CUR is a twat, a clueless twat - and in spite of this, thinks he is a genius.  Gee, I guess I could tone down my pointing out the truth for a bit, sure.  20%?  How about I shoot for 100% for the duration of this discussion?  But please to forgive me if the twat adds even more evidence (as it does with virtually every edit it makes) and I react to it? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:02, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I would say there's likely no problem with icon-sized images (50x50, or maybe 100x100), or else LiveJournal would have to close down. --Kels 23:10, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * In my perspective, at least, calling someone a "twat" and a "curDLE brains" are indeed insults, and if I remember the guidelines correctly, we "frown" on that sort of thing. Ergo: *frowns* -- 23:31, 15 January 2009 (EST)

My thoughts exactly. --" 10:45, 16 January 2009 (EST) AKJ, normally I'd say "you're right," but in this case I gotta ask--maybe this guy is asking for the insults. Look, I made what was possibly the single largest fuck-up in the history of this project and nobody has called me names over it, though they have every right to. CUR gets called more names than TK and HoG put together. When that happens, you gotta ask why...TheoryOfPractice 23:35, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * See, the thing is, I didn't "call it" a "twat". I described it based on observation.  There's a difference.  Also, "curDLE brains" is a miscapitalized reference to its user name and its claim to having very large brains (IQ = 133!!!!).  All I am doing is observing, really. @ Kels, do you think we can figure out a way to encode the "thumbnail" idea?  It might make CUR happy to have his userbox, and justify a few others? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:44, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Okay. Well, thank you for running roughshod all over the guidelines before we're even finished rewriting them. I'm certain that'll encourage people to follow them. Good job. -- 23:48, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * I knida agree with ya here AJK. Come on Human, dont let C(TK)UR push you! Ace McWickedThe Liquid Room 23:50, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * Sorry for describing it based on evidence if that broke our guidelines. Sometimes it's confusing, you know?  Respect for user vs. empirical observation of creature's persona on here?  Dang, I'm hung between the mission and the guidelines! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:58, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Ahem. May a n00b butt in? First, Stargate is awesome, and I'm looking forward to Stargate:Universe (God help us all if it's bad). Second, it may not be fair use, except as an absolutely minimal use. But third, even if it isn't fair use because it fits none of the other traits, it's so minimal that I would eat my own balls if Sci-Fi sued you. Keep it!-Diadochus
 * Well, if CUR sends them that letter he's mentioned, they will notice and they will sue. However, Weaseloid is right, so I've uploaded small versions of the two pictures. Either keep them or delete every other copyrighted image. -- Nx  talk 06:11, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Fair use doctrine
The US copyright office has this to say on assessing fair use, Now I know the people at CP think because it is on there they are covered by 1 but I can't see how "educational purposes" cover use on your user page. It is a single image out of a TV show so not much there on 2. There in nothing around it that supports it use so they got you on 3. It has hurt their potential market as I might not watch the show just because CUR likes it so they have got you on 4 as well. - User   01:44, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * 1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
 * 2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
 * 3) amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
 * 4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


 * So we can use screencaps of a YT video, say Conservapedia on The Hour? --<font color="#FF0000" face="Andy">JJ4e <font color="#FFBA00">I christen thee Sir Annoyz Alot 10:47, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Covered under parody clause. <font color=Blue>Генгис    11:10, 16 January 2009 (EST)


 * Thank God. <font color="#FF0000" face="Andy">JJ4e <font color="#FFBA00">I christen thee Sir Annoyz Alot 11:20, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Some of the most obvious violations in article space are here, here, here, here and here. I like the way these pics are being used, but it obviously isn't fair use. Is there anything we could do to them in terms of cropping, colour adjustement & effects that would make them 'our' images rather than copyright violations but still keep enough of the characteristics of the originals? 14:05, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, as an artist I can probably knock up a few 100% original cartoons or imagines and just allow RW to have them up without bringing up copyright issues if it comes to it. The thing is, no one noticies this stuff and it just flies under the radar; pragmatically, so long as the site is respectful to requests to pull them down there is no real problem. But it would be nice to stay 100% within the law. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 14:17, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, this is where I have the problem. I would much rather let these things go; these kinds of trivial violations go unchecked all over the internet & nothing comes of it.  However, if people are going to be hassled by other editors about the copyright status of every new image uploaded here (as is regularly happening), then we should at least show some consistency in dealing with what we already have around in prominent places on the site.  Basically, the hypocrisy bothers me a lot more than the legal issue.   14:23, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * You know, I bet if we could reach him, Kevin Smith would give us permission for the Jesus statue thing (it is from Dogma, right?). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:38, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * A few points, first a law suit is never the first thing to hit, we would get a DMCA take down notice, and if we get a legitimate one we can act. Second does anyone have the court case for the Yoko Ono "Imagine" lawsuit against expelled? I think there is some relevancy here regarding use of copyrighted material is criticism/parody of something other than the copyrighter material. tmtoulouse 14:46, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Copyrights, derivative works and the like
My background is as a photographer. I have some experience creating copyrighted work and registering copyrights. I've also read the copyright bit a few times and have two books on copyrights and photography (and assorted cases). I am not a lawyer.

One of the key questions for courts is how much the violation borrows from the original and how much it impacts the commercial value of the original. A small section of a frame (not the entire screen capture) is less impacting. Using the image in a way that is not associated with the original material (the image of Buddy Jesus is not in an article about Dogma) impacts this less than something that associates the image with its original copyright. I'm not a lawyer, so you should probably read and  which are by a lawyer.

A screen capture such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Babylon5_01.jpg is a low res image that is used only in an article about the series. You will note it is not used in any user page templates. It is only being used as part of an editorial which is covered by fair use.

One of the things that owning a copyright gives the holder is the right to authorize and publish derivative works. Cropping or altering an image is still covered by the original copyright. If you translate Harry Potter into Esperanto, you own the copyright on the translation - but you can't publish it unless you have permission by the copyright holder. A photograph of a painting is the same way - the painter controls the derivative work. In order to make a derivative work into a new work, a substantial amount of new material must be included and copyrighted itself (changing titles or phrases is not copyrightable).

I will point out that removing copyright notice from an image (be it in the border of the image or one of the fields of the image) is a huge violation and means a willful transgression rather than an innocent one.

CP has gotten in significant trouble using AP photos in a way that competes with AP's own use of them.

So, back to here. If anything may be copyrighted, follow the bit on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B5_aliens.jpg - the "rationale" and "resolution". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content is a good policy.

--Shagie 22:57, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thank you, Shagie. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:02, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can we park this section in the barchive? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:26, 17 January 2009 (EST)

From Debate:Tobacco
Moved back to Debate:Tobacco

God's role in plane landing in the Hudson
Perhaps it was inevitable that "God was certainly looking out for all of us". Of course, God had nothing to do with the flock of geese going through the engines, either... Sterilerationalize 12:26, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well God only does the good stuff, except when he's punishing people of course. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:31, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC):Or the skill of an exceptional pilot that could, under pressure, land a plane on water without killing anyone. Or the engineer that designed the plane to handle reasonably well without engines. Or the foresight of safety personel who decided to put life-jackets under the seats. Or the people who designed the doors to release under such a situation. Or the fast response of the rescue services. Or the good communication links between pilot and airport that informed the right people of where and how it was going down. Or the people who desinged those life rafts that inflate by the doors.... But to be fair, a lot of the story that circulating is just singing the praises of the pilot above anything else. It's almost as if the people are thinking rationally. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:35, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC) YHVH's role in the plane crash would be like that of a person who pushes someone else off a cliff, catches him before he hits the ground, and then expects to be thanked for the catch. [[Image:Mjollnir.svg|20px]]ListenerXTalkerX 12:37, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Difference between the saloon bar and the ?
Just out of curiosity, is there a difference between the saloon bar and the forums? It seems like the saloon bar makes many of the forums somewhat obsolete as they in many ways serve the same function. I think the saloon bar is better received because it is the same medium as the wiki. Sterilerationalize 12:32, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * The forums have been quite quiet recently and navigating between different topics requires a bit more effort. If you check RC to see what's "hot" on site then you immediately see the activity here and it always seems that people congregate where the action is, so maybe you're right it has made the forums a little obsolete. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:36, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, A) forums require a separate login and membership. B) The traffic will go where the traffic wants to go; therefore if people want to use the wiki to socialise, let that option be open. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:58, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I've never registered for the forum, 'cause every time I glance at it there's een no recent activity. The saloon bar seems to have taken off, & being part of wiki means it's easy to move in & out of.  Notice how discussions start on some other talk page & end up here, or start out here & end up on a debate page.   13:18, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I can edit here...the forum, not so much as the only thing I ever get to see is this [[Image:Rwfban.PNG|300px]]
 * CЯacke ® 14:39, 16 January 2009 (EST)EDIT:Thanks yous to whomever fixxed the forum to let me back in. Working finely now. CЯacke ®

Ambience
The ambience doesn't work for me; it just says "error opening file".  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:45, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * There's something wrong with the template but I can't figure out what it is. If you feel starved of ambience, I put some goat noises together.   13:22, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * It may depend on your connection. I have problems with them on my wireless eeePC but all my wired connections work fine. You can still test it for yourself by opening the earlier version from the template history. <font color=Blue>Генгис    14:03, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Why not just, y'know, put a CD on? Insert Name Here 06:02, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Conservopoly
You can add games of Conservopoly by adding into pages. All credit goes to Trent.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * It doesn't actually work though. The project got abandoned/delayed a while back. tmtoulouse 16:10, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I thought it worked on individual games...  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:12, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * You have faaaiiiiled us!  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:14, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * At the moment the functionality is that you can roll and move around the board and buy property you land on. That is about it. Which frankly wasn't trivial as is, and why I sort of stopped working on it. Someday perhaps....tmtoulouse 16:15, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Faaaaaiiiiiiled us!  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:17, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * It is not even a bar game! I will make us a wiki based darts game okay? tmtoulouse 16:18, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Darts, yay! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:27, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can you accidentally hit a friend in the thigh with a rusty dart? Corryundefined 01:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Is this chair taken?
This place looks neat, pity about the sawdust on the floor. I just noticed that Caius did a runner on us. Did I miss the party? Is he coming back?  Lily Ta, wack! 16:27, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * If you gotta go, you've gotta go. Candid World will still be there, a user never really goes and never comes back. You eventually fade out with a site but you always pop in, post and do other things irregularly. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 17:44, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I submit that I did things irregularly in the first place, or at least unevenly. --Kels 20:46, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I submit that I did things unevenly in the first place, or at least, irregularly. No, this seat is not taken.  Belly up the bar and have a laugh! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:57, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * You took the words right out of my mouth! And reversed their order! --Kels 22:00, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, I thought the upside-down version of couch rugby would be fun. Oops, are we exhibitionists?  Anyway, yes, I did, and please to leave your "committed" mouth out of what I can order on the menu.  This bar sucks, all the people who hang out here are such phonies.  Hahahaahahahahahahaha, I hate idiots.  Snuggles... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:09, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * You were way cooler before you sold out. --Kels 22:10, 16 January 2009 (EST)
 * I didn't sell out! Seriously, one of my arena dates still had empty seats.  And the teenage girls love my new song!  <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:19, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Did anyone else just watch Battlestar?
And is confused?-Diadochus 00:08, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * No, and I didn't care? Care to tell me why I should? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:23, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Because it's an AWESOME TV series - do I have to convince you of that too? - and the last half-season just debuted. I just assumed the population here would be as nerdy as the content suggests :)-Diadochus 00:26, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * In this case I think awesome may be a relative term, Diddy. I do hope we're not going to have a lot of copyrighted Battlestar images being uploaded now. --  Lily Ta, wack! 10:54, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * The last time I watched Battlestar Galactica, it starred Lorne Greene. Is it still on? TheoryOfPractice 11:29, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Confused. That is the biggest understatement ever made by you inferior humans! Prepare for cylon raiders! --" 12:04, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * You are a credit to all stupid carbon-based lifeforms. --" 13:27, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * What, me? 'Cause I don't watch teevee? What are you saying? TheoryOfPractice 13:28, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Correction: This wiki is a credit to all stupid carbon-based lifeforms. EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! --" 13:32, 17 January 2009 (EST)

I have no idea what you are prattling on about. Moreover, I am glad of this. TheoryOfPractice 13:37, 17 January 2009 (EST) Scifi. Universe. FAIL.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  13:38, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * "Prattling" describes CUR's edits eggsaccly! [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter''  13:39, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Illitarate describes your fluency in all things sci-fi. --" 13:40, 17 January 2009 (EST)

I am giving a compliment to you stupid carbon-based lifeforms. EXTERMINATE! comes from the science fiction show Doctor Who (longest running sci-fi show ever), and 'resistance is futile' comes from the Borg. Look 'em up. --" 13:38, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * If you aren't carbon based, are you silicon?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  13:48, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * We can only hope.Z3ro 13:48, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have crystals growing out of my back. --" 13:49, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Illitarate describes your fluency in all things sci-fi Wrong again, moron. Read as much Delaney, Herbert, Asimov, Niven, Robinson, etc etc as many of us have, and then try again....Also, learn to spell--it's "illiterate." As are you.TheoryOfPractice 13:50, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yet you have no idea what the Borg, the Daleks, or anyother great sci-fi villians are. . . --" 13:51, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Partly right, phantom, "silly" at least. (Both Daleks & the Borg are carbon based) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 13:52, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * A fact that I am well aware of. Actually, the Borg could be silicon based, or any other kind of lifeform for that matter. All they'd have to do is assimilate one of the species. --" 13:54, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Yet you have no idea what the Borg, the Daleks, or anyother great sci-fi villians are Right. 'Cause I don't watch teevee, and only make it to the movies once in a great while, and rarely for any sort of franchise-type stuff (outside of Star Wars)...I read. Sci-fi comes in book form for me...TheoryOfPractice 13:59, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hear! hear! Books RULORZ!!!! [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 14:02, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * FYI: I read as well. I also turn on the TV once and a while to watch Sci-Fi channel. And I can read- I read the last Harry Potter book in 2 days. --" 14:03, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * I read the last Harry Potter book in 2 days.  "That's not writing. It's typing." Note to the non-CUR community that reads HP: Kidding. Please don't assault me. I've never actually read the damn things. Was just a joke.... TheoryOfPractice 14:06, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * My wife read the last Harry Potter in two days. Bragging about reading speed on this site is probably not going to =victory.Z3ro 14:24, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think we have a sad userbox people use to admit they read it in 14 hours, or something like that. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:45, 17 January 2009 (EST)

New to me
Didn't know you could do this. <smiley I couldn't be bothered to look up> (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter''  11:26, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Niether did I but I assume it was an obvious feature to add considering the rate that Wikipedia updates. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 15:50, 17 January 2009 (EST)

New Users
What's with the new users signing up with names simillar to established users? Trolls? Idiots? Both? Maybe someone with powarz can look into this.Z3ro 12:17, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * They's all been vandal binned. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:19, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * I guess my username doesn't rate in this guy's book. C'mon, man! The "Dick" is just begging to be mocked. DickTurpis 12:21, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * * sigh* Now to de-vandal them all...  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:23, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Pardon? [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:27, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Only one of them has made any edits, and they were both productive.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:36, 17 January 2009 (EST)


 * see:"Spoof" usernames (impersonating another user, usually) can be renamed unilaterally unless the spoofee expresses approval of the spoofer. As no such approval has yet been forthcoming ... [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:40, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Are you deliberately baiting me? [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:44, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * No, I wasn't aware of that clause in the Community Standards.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:48, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * well, next time, instead of *sigh*ing you might ASK. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:50, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Um, that clause is in the proposed guidelines, isn't it? (Although it does state what we do in these cases accurately). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Oh well it was fun while it lasted... Ed Karaschlative 12:56, 17 January 2009 (EST)

I think most of them are Fall Down. I'm remembering Weaselold. --" 13:26, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nope, one of them had a talkpage comment and signed with their username. Fall down has the courtesy to always sign as himself.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  13:29, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * But maybe a few of them are. . . --" 13:39, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * CUR, they were clearly all made by the same person.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  13:45, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * They WERE all made by the same person - me. I'm sorry if I broke any rules :( - I thought I was being funny. I promise not to abuse username rules again. Father Jack Harkness 14:07, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Captain  Jack, surely? [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 14:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Captain Jack, yes - until that fateful day when the Tardis landed on Craggy Island...! Father Jack Harkness 14:33, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * But as of Captain Jack's last appearance he was working at Torchwood 3, in Cardiff, not in the TARDIS.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  14:37, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * BTW: confession - got that by googling - didn't know 'till then. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 14:29, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * What was wrong with Torchwood?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  14:31, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * what was right with it? Father Jack Harkness 14:36, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * The cool guns, the fact that the annoying dead one is fully dead... need I go on?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  14:39, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * That still leaves the annoying living ones still alive. Insert Name Here 14:43, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, but I suspect there will be another two annoying live ones joining next series.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  14:46, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Mickey and Martha? Martha's OK. Insert Name Here 14:53, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * ? never seen it. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 14:35, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * OMG I watched that episode! The one with the Daleks stealing the planet! THAT WAS COOL!!! REALLY COOL! Donna's memory being wiped was sad though. Toast, you really need to see it. I LOVE SCI-FI!!! --" 21:43, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Sirius Satellite Radio and Patriotism
So I'm looking into satellite radio seeing as how I'm home working a lot and will be for the next five years of my life. Sirius has some neat stuff--including the all-important Grateful Dead channel--but something caught my eye. Their left-wing-talk-show channel is called "Sirius Left." The right-wing equivalent is "Sirius Patriot." Once again, the American right seizes the moral high ground: you're either a patriot or a lefty. No room to be both. TheoryOfPractice 20:29, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * It is surprising that it has not already become diluted currency the term patriot, it gets thrown around so much that it is a wonder it has any meaning anymore. - User   20:33, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Patriot has become the nickname for Right-Wing politics. If you are a lefty, your patriotism is openly criticized. How can improvement not be part of a countries best interests?--Nate River 20:41, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * "...the last refuge of scoundrels". <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:33, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Nothing new about this particular bit of Republican neruolinguistic programming--it dates back to at LEAST the 1950s and the "House Unamerican Activities Committee". --Gulik 22:23, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, that--but it's interesting to see how much the private sphere has toed and reinforced that line, post 9-11.TheoryOfPractice 08:40, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * I will never understand how a country that was founded by people overthrowing the current government has desolved into a country where people are required to support the government in all things, or else...Z3ro 13:41, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well remember, back when the American Revolution was taking place, it was them dirty liberals who wanted independence. The nice Conservatives simply wanted to patch things up and keep everything how it always was. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  16:10, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Oversight
Did you all ever decide on your Overseers? It was before my time (as an editor) but I was desperately looking forward to Headless Chicken Mode.-Diadochus 22:31, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, we appointed you to oversee all and sundry. We bow down before you, oh powerful master (mistress?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:43, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's not Oversight, it's RevisionDelete, and all sysops can do it by clicking on the "show/hide" button beside revisions in the page history.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  03:56, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Actually, bureaucrats now have the power to give themselves oversight. However, any use has to be reviewed and the power may be rescinded if abused I'm behind the (Sunday) times. <font color=Blue>Генгис    04:38, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * But all sysops can hide revisions.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  04:40, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Survival of the fittest
Hi all, I'm thinking about writing an article on "survival of the fittest" - it could cover the use and abuse of the term. Is it within this site's remit? I don't want to write something that gets deleted. Insert Name Here 03:15, 18 January 2009 (EST)


 * Easily. We look forward to you doing all the work, and then when you are done, we will all come along and stick our noses in and tell you what you are doing wrong. - User   03:21, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Right then, I'll go ahead. Insert Name Here 03:29, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC)Yes, please go ahead. I think it is right on mission and had also mulled over doing something on those lines myself. Every time I see creationist arguments trying to link H*tler to evolution it makes my brain hurt. Genocide has nothing to do with evolution and restricting "fit" to strength is wilfully disingenuous. <font color=Blue>Генгис    03:33, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * User Pi pretty much said it. Build it, and we will ruin it ;)  Not really. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:42, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ghengis, I can't help but wonder if your brain also hurts as much when atheists try to link Hitler to religion. Seems to be a fairly similar situation. -- 08:53, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think that mostly happens when we are trying to rebut the cretinists, though. We prefer to blame all religions and religious people for the Crusades, the Inquisition, buggering priests, etc. ;) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:50, 18 January 2009 (EST)

'Crats
What are the criteria for 'cratship?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  05:59, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Stunning good looks and dropping Trent $500. <font color=Blue>Генгис    06:44, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can I have it?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:21, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Are your intentions honourable?  16:23, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:33, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, for some value of "honourable".  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:43, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, mine are too, but I'm not getting 'cratship. Try proving me wrong. --" 21:14, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Dude, leaving aside the general pain in the ass that you tend toward being, you've been active here for 6 fucking weeks. I was 18 months before becoming a 'crat--others more deserving than I are not yet...TheoryOfPractice 21:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Don't call me dude. By the way, being a royal pain is not one of the criteria for 'crat-ship rejection. --" 21:33, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * CURrently, it's the first one on the list, dudette. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:40, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * CURrently, I am not being a royal pain. --" 22:08, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Dude, you have a short memory.TheoryOfPractice 22:09, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * CUR today you have managed to annoy:
 * Toast
 * SirChuckB
 * Human (see above)
 * TheoryOfPractice (see above)
 * Also I haven't said anything but I find you a little needy, especially the way you wreaked the flow of the conversation me and the electrocutioner had about a week ago with you late - unamusing - comment.
 * Guess why you won't make 'crate soon? - User   23:16, 20 January 2009 (EST)


 * Refugee for Bureaucrat! Yes! and Sysop. and Oversiter and IPchecker and all that good stuff! Vote yes for Refugeeeeeee! :D (just joking - don't really want any of that stuff, lol. I can barely figure out the basics of editing.) Refugee  talk page  16:21, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I must point out that Toast became a bureaucrat after 4 months of editing, and has been here for less time than me, so don't give the time argument.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:29, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Has Toast really only been here for 4 months? - User   16:58, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yep; look at the user creation logs.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:01, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Less than three months, allegedly.  17:06, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Look at the conversation in the section titled Minor wikiprojects. - User   17:21, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * So when do I get 'cratship? --" 17:02, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * When Hell freezes over.  17:06, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Don't you mean hell? --" 17:11, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Give him cratship on the old server and let him play -- Nx  talk 17:12, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Only if he promises not to come back to this one.  17:13, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Sidenote: bureaucrats should probably be named when necessary, or as a reward for superlong service above and beyond the call. I don't know if we do have criteria, but those should be in it.-Diadochus 17:17, 21 January 2009 (EST)User:Toast/CollapsibleNavBoxTest
 * The trick to becoming a bureaucrat is to find another bureaucrat when they are drinking and try to convince them it is a good idea. My drinking hours are about 9 to 12 am on the server clock. - User   17:29, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Now now now, Weasel. Play nicely, or don't play at all. --" 17:22, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's what my banjo teacher used to say.  17:26, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * The first barrier to 'cratship--besides being an edit-warring, confrontational jackass--should be asking for 'cratship....TheoryOfPractice 17:28, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have always felt that is your biggest problem CUR is that you ask for powers and it comes of as someone with an agenda that needs these powers to fulfill it. - User   17:30, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I only brought the whole thing up because I had noticed that Toast was newer than me, and had asked for 'cratship too.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:31, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I did NOT "ask for it!. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 17:35, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Maybe not ask for it as such, but I remember a post somewhere saying something along the lines of "By the way, I'm still not a 'crat", which can be seen as an indication that you want it.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:39, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Anyone who wants it is likely unsuitable to have it. --Shagie 17:33, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Then Toast should be decratted immediately, as she did ask for it.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:35, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I got 'cratship through drinking heavily and finding a sober 'crat. Go figure. Also, CUR, as I was once told, "You have little repsect nor prominence." Ace McWicked (sorry - not signed in)
 * Why haven't you signed in, you can't use your special 'crate powers, such as viewing the webcam in CUR's bedroom, without logging in. - User   17:49, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't drink, not least because it tastes awful.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:37, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hoover, please chill out. Asking for other people to be decratted isn't a great way to make your own case for cratship.   17:40, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I wasn't asking for Toast to be decratted; I'm sorry if you saw it that way. I was merely pointing out that, if wanting 'cratship was a reason not to get it, then Toast shouldn't have been encratted. I did not say that she should be decratted in reality.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:44, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * REPEAT!!!!! I did NOT "ask for it!. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 17:46, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC) The comment a few lines up looks a lot like asking for Toast to be decratted. As I recall Toast was asking to be given Oversight instead of being made a bureaucrat, a system we didn't run with in the end anyway. 17:48, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I can't recall exactly what happened, but if it offends that much then I'll relinquish it. All it gives is De/Promotion rights & rename user anyhow. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 17:52, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Weasel's right: someone said that Oversight should only be offered to non-bureaucrats so I volunteered & pi cratted me to make me shut up. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 17:54, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC) I would prefer it if you didn't Toast, your editing and wiki skill is much appreciated around here, especially what you have been doing with the hide templates. It is for contributions such as that you got made a bureaucrat. Also you are the only person that edits as much as Human and me. - User   17:59, 21 January 2009 (EST)

My comment is not intended as a criticism of Toast (I have nothing but good things to say about the one who shares a name with slightly burnt bread). It is rather intended as a rebuke of people who appear to be trying to gather wikipower for its own ends or the perceived status it confers. I also feel that anyone with a name longer than 5 characters should be automatically rejected, but thats just my take on it. --Shagie 19:10, 21 January 2009 (EST)

People, let me make this clear. I was not trying to get Toast decratted, nor was I particularly concerned with getting it for myself. I was attacking the double standards about 'cratship that allow Toast to become a 'crat after only 4 months editing, but prevent Proxima Centauri from becoming one after 9. I did not say that I wanted Toast decratted, I said "then Toast should be decratted" in response to someone saying that those who desire 'cratship shouldn't get it. Toast, I concede that you never asked for 'cratship, but you did say something along the lines of "by the way, I'm still not a 'crat", implying that you wanted to be a 'crat and thought you should be. I hope that in lieu of this, Proxima will be made a bureaucrat and the standards will be made more consistent.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:03, 22 January 2009 (EST)

American Football Laugh
I was just watching the Arizona Cardinals being presented with the NFC Championship trophy. When they interviewed Kurt Warner, he started with something along the lines of some people are gonna get sick of hearing this, but first my thanks go to my lord, thank you lord Jesus (complete with a finger point to the sky to illustrate his point). Now, if he wants to thank the ivisable man in the sky, whatever, but I'm pretty sure Jesus is a Packer fan. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  18:37, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * What does God have against the Philadelphia Eagles? - User   20:05, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * If jesus was a Packer's fan, he wouldn't have put them in Wisconsin.Z3ro 20:24, 18 January 2009 (EST)
 * Reminds me of an old Onion story - NBA star blames God for defeat. --PsyGremlinWhut? 00:14, 19 January 2009 (EST)
 * Everytime I hear a player thanking God, I remember the old George Carlin routine: What is with these asshole sports people who thank god everytime they win, never mention him when they lose. You never hear someone say "God made me drop the ball, the Good lord tripped me up behind the line... According to them, God is undefeated, meanwhile these idiots are in last place... Must be one of those miracles." <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  03:36, 19 January 2009 (EST)
 * Clearly He is not a Detroit Lions fan though. --Snotbowst 18:46, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Here's a debunking project to work on...
As advertised in the forum, contribut to Put a Sock in It! Sterilerationalize 19:30, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Obama and Fair Use....
For those of you craving MOAR OBABA!!!, here's an article about the iconography of the campaign that, as an added bonus, talks a bit about the line between copyright infingement and fair use--something we need to get straight on...TheoryOfPractice 17:28, 19 January 2009 (EST)

How long
would I need to wait, not editing CP, before my IP returns to a state of virginal purity and untraceability (so that no more poor old MikeSalters have to bite the dust for association with Bugler)? I have dial-up. Fretfulporpentine 08:44, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Depends on if you have a static or dynamic IP. And dude, you have dial-up? TheoryOfPractice 09:00, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Are you sure TK didn't range block you? He's pretty thorough with that.  Certainly if he sees this conversation he'll get on the trail, unless of course he wants another Bugler in the house, which is always a possibility.  If not blocked, the IP address should be clean after a couple of weeks, according to Conservapedia:A Parodist's Guide to Villainy.  You did all that from dial-up?  Blimey.   09:46, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Waitaminnit--you got another editor to blocking rights within DAYS of outing Bugler?!?!?! You're like the Yoda of wikidemolishing. TK should take lessons from you. You, sir, are made of win....TheoryOfPractice 09:52, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * May I recommend you search the web for instructions on changing IPs? Your situation may be different than those outlined in the guide, and I would hate to see such a brilliant parodist as yourself defeated by a checkuser.Z3ro 10:01, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, how the hell do you do it?!? Andy's a paranoia machine, getting around that is near impossible. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:19, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Except for the fact that Andy's amazingly short-sighted (and memoried it seems) when it comes to judging people who act as his echo chamber. Of course, now he's faced with having to admit he was fooled twice in a few weeks by the same person... any chances his rights don't get revoked? --PsyGremlinWhut? 11:25, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * If you've got dialup then change your provider, you'll get a new set of IPs to play with. I understand that the "prevent account recreation" thing only has a limited lifespan, that's why they use IP and range blocking which is more permanent but most of those are only for a year rather than 5 years or infinite. However, I suspect that if they've got a list of Bugler's IPs then any attempt to reuse them will flag up in their super seekrit vandal database. <font color=Blue>Генгис    11:35, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Better yet, get broadband. It's now barely any more expensive, if at all, than dial-up, especially for the amount of time you must be spending online.  Or are you in one of those odd little bits of the UK that still can't get ADSL?   11:56, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * And some will automatically cycle your IP too, it usually costs more to get a fixed one. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:02, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm on Virgin, and my IP hasn't changed for months.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:31, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Tiscali, myself. Horrific bandwidth throttling, but I do get a completely different IP every time I leave my modem off for a few hours. Before I started using AdBlock, those "Find a girl in [your area]" ads were hilarious. I must have seen hundreds of them, with the towns and cities mentioned being all over the country, but I don't think I ever saw even one of them in the same county as me, let alone the same town. Checking on IE, the current one says I'm from Wilmslow which, according to Google Maps, is 111 miles from my actual location. Dreaded Walrus 07:27, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Celebration
Here's to the last minutes of the Bush administration! Sterilerationalize 08:46, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not that you, or, indeed, the rest of the world, are counting. Silver Sloth 08:56, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't have to. Wikimedia does that for me. :)  Sterilerationalize 09:06, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I did see someone quote "It's 17 hours until I get my country back" :P <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:21, 20 January 2009 (EST)


 * President Obama!  Corryundefined 12:07, 20 January 2009 (EST)

Take that assfly- he didn't say Allah. Ha! That speech is wonderful. I'm watching it on CNN right now. Waiter: get me a double order of cylon salad. I'm celebrating today! --" 12:20, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Im watching it on the BBC.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover '' 12:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ah, Obama for breakfast, nice start to the day. I love the sound of Hussein in the morning... it sounds like - victory! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:18, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I shall now do a little jig. --" 14:22, 20 January 2009 (EST)

I cried
First time ever while watching TV. (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 12:32, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I didn't think it was as good as his election night speech. Still a good speech, though.Z3ro 12:46, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not the speech so much as the 'event' - but he did mention science in his first or second paragraph. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 13:05, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * And he mentioned us "unbelievers", nice to be able to pretend to have a seat at the table. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:20, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I didn't think it was as good as his election night speech ...For me, it was the Iowa speech for inspiration, and the Jeremiah Wright speech for intellectual and analytic depth. Still, good job...TheoryOfPractice 14:33, 20 January 2009 (EST)


 * Me too, but I was watching House. Commodore Guff User talk:Commodore Guff 14:40, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I also cried - I was counting the takings at my shop. Yours trulyDear Sir 15:23, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I came pretty damn close. And I was glad he mentioned education, science, and volunteer service. ENorman 16:13, 20 January 2009 (EST)


 * I watched when he and his wife got out of the limo and walked along the parade route - I thought it was nice that he wanted to personally greet everyone, but it looked like they were so cold, I needed to put on a sweater. Refugee  talk page  16:25, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Fall Down
If no one minds, I'm going to de-vandal and permaban all of Fall Down's socks. Why? Because he has so many that he can effectively edit like a normal user. All he needs is to have 30 of his socks open at one time. --" 12:34, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * There was actually a big discussion over this recently, though I can't recall where. In other words, a bunch of people mind, so don't.  Hopefully someone who was involved in the discussion can explain better than I.  --<font color="#99CCFF">Arcan   ¡ollǝɥ  12:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * CUR, what do you think FD is gonna do when all his socks are blocked? He'll just create a load more.   13:10, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, but we'd just block those too. Right now, we're allowing him to be as dangerous as he wants. --" 14:08, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * So it is a futile exercise. Hitting "rollback" is easier than chasing the new editor list to see who might be FD.  And as with any fool's errand, there may be unintended casualties. Also, CUR, we simply don't do "permabans" as a matter of site policy. (Except to force ourselves to log in) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:22, 20 January 2009 (EST)

So now that that's done...
How long until he imposes Sharia law on the country? Is that a Day One thing? DickTurpis 12:54, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * He'll have to set up teh secret police first.Z3ro 12:57, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Oh, and the Obamajungend. Let's not forget them. DickTurpis 13:06, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Or declare a jihad on something?  <font color=Blue>Генгис    13:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is he going for the Islam stuff? Damn.  I was hoping for reperations and open warfare against white people. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  13:36, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * He could do both. His term just started.Z3ro 13:37, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not to mention outlawing pigs. Or forcing the will of teh great and might rusty-spotted cat upon ye unbelievers! --" 14:26, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ironically, CP is right on one thing - "His first official order is expected to be to authorize taxpayer funding for abortion in foreign countries." - ie, undoing the Reagan/Bush/Bush "gag rule". Although they spun it a bit. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:27, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I just want him to enforce the will of teh great and mighty rusty-spotted cat on all ye unbelievers! --" 14:36, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * But he done danced at his inaugural ball! I thought them A-rabs weren't supposed to dance! Czolgolz 04:47, 21 January 2009 (EST)

From what I have heard, his first official act (beyond signing the cabinet appointments) was to rollback every one of Bush's executive orders and directives to government agencies. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:28, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I like this guy already. --Gulik 19:33, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hehe. I liked that he spent most of his inaugural address ripping Bush about 17 new defecatory orifices. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:49, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Minor "wikiproject"
We probably need to go through this list to update references to the new President where appropriate. I can't think of an easy way to organize it, though, other than setting the RAbot on the task. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:24, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * It would nice to get something like AutoWikiBrowser to work here. It semi-automates housekeeping tasks. I've had it working on WP but it doesn't work on CP or RW. I believe the source code is available, perhaps one of our geeks could adapt it?  <font color=Blue>Генгис    14:29, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't know how easily this one could be automated, but it does show a weakness we sometimes fall into, which is writing in the present tense (at times). It makes a lot of places where we need to update as time passes, but of course, we don't know where to look.  Of course, some of these "updates" are just reality intruding on things we write about.  Major events like changes of administration at least are noticeable, hopefully we'll get it all sorted.  But lesser things can lapse into anachronism if carelessly written. Maybe we should use a little catting template for things we know will need updating?  One that only leaves, say, a small asterisk in the text, but adds a category like "this will likely need updating", and a defsort for that cat by, say, month/year of the expected updating? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:12, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think a "current affairs" category, for people or issues that are often in the news, could be useful for keeping tabs on these things & updating when things change.  16:17, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * That's not a bad idea... although I'm not sure the name will work well? How about something along the lines of "update", with the reason for the cat listed on its page?  "Frequently changes"?  I dunno, but, yeah, a single cat alone would do it nicely. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:21, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Instead of an actual visible cat; could put an invisible (style= "color:white") word that wouldn't naturally occur such "currentupdate" on each such page & then just search for that text or even have a special page that picks out pages using dpl like the helpnav template does by having such a keyword on it like: " " you could have a different keyname for various things. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter''  20:14, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I like that even better - so a tiny bit of code goes at the bottom of likely suspect pages, and dpl constructs the list of pages with that code wherever we feel like putting it? That might belong in the useful links box.  Now, since I know you can do anything you want with dpl, would it make sense to have some sort of timing/dating function as well?  So we know how often to look at things?  Or about a keyword of some sort that simple shows up on the main list?  Hmmm.  One example I keep thinking of are people who might die (any of the living), but I realize that's silly, it's only one article that would need updating and people would catch it.  The big candidates are of course things that we are reporting on mid-cycle, like the election stuff, which also has the issue of requiring changes in quite a few places.  If you sandbox the dpl idea somewhere can you put a link here so we can come over and complain it isn't painted the right color constructively comment on it? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:40, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not up to it @ the moment, sorry. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 20:42, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * No rush, sorry if I made it sound like we needed it up and running in three hours ;) Just whenever you have the butter and jam. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:13, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Was easy! Going to sleep now - back tomorrow (or later today, really) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 23:38, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Night night Our Lady of the Crumpet. Sleep well, as your schedule allows.  PS, I never understood why you remade yourself with a new account.  If you want, can you email with the reason? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:47, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can't email on the pda (lost all data on it - battery went & only retained phone memory t'other day - so not got addresses, pwords etc) I was just getting fed up with all the bickering & decided to cold turkey. Drawn back by sniffing uncut RW through a rolled £20 note (now worth $15!). [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter Post Scriptum:   Moving out of present accommodation to less severe domicile so might be back on Laptop this pm if SWMBO brings it - much subterfuge involved in sneaking electronic devices past officious persons. 04:16, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * WP does have a template that states that an article "reflects current events", something similar would work. In principle, EVERY article could be affected. Any page on CP Sysops would have to be totally rewritten if one came out as a parodist. Articles on websites would need to be changed if the website closed down. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 06:49, 21 January 2009 (EST)

(undent) While it's true that many things can change, most of them are unique (affect only one or a couple of articles), and would also be on our radar - if a CP sysop "came out" we'd catch it and update. Websites going down are a bit trickier, it might take a while for us to notice and fix an article or ELs. At the other end of the scale was the election/change of administration, which is probably going to affect scores, perhaps even hundred, of articles. People have been fixing some things up, and we'll probably get them all in the end, but it would be nice to have a "master list". I guess just checking the "politicians" category would be a good start, of course. For instance, I already confirmed ;) Clinton as Sec'ty of State, and kicked her out of the Senate, and did something similar with someone else (who?).

Anyway, I think the key is to figure out how "low" on that range of thresholds we want to go. Can someone make a nice bullet list of potential reasons we'd have to change articles, from "most likely to be simple" to "most complex to deal with" so we can decide where to draw the line? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:41, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * See User:Toast/CollapsibleNavBoxTest where I've copied this section. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 17:31, 21 January 2009 (EST)

We holding up?
We are getting traffic spike from somwthing awful forums again, how is the new server holding up? tmtoulouse 20:29, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * OK. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 20:32, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Seems fine - what did they link to? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:12, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * here. 216.221.87.112 03:06, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * So does that now make that article an entry point? I'll try and go through and make some format changes as it currently looks a bit of a hash-job. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 06:51, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * (Edit conflict) They linked to Conservapedia:Bible rewriting project, should we spruce it up a bit? And there's a category for "entry point" articles as well I think. Yours trulyDear Sir 06:54, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Wait, we were making fun of Conservapedia "from a serious-christian point of view"? I had no idea!  Oh god, I feel so dirty.   07:32, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * INH has pretty much EC'd with my exact comment (CONSPIRACY! :P ) so I did spruce it up a little. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:16, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks guys, that's why I asked. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:33, 21 January 2009 (EST)

SA also links to Conservapedia:Conservapedian mathematics. --Marty 01:29, 22 January 2009 (EST) Quick quote from SA: YES. cp:Category:Syndromes

Embedding YouTube videos...
...is possible? TheoryOfPractice 21:58, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think so. But this could be like Encyclopedia Dramatica. <font color="#FF0000" face="Andy">JJ4e <font color="#FFBA00">I christen thee Sir Annoyz Alot 22:15, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Location of video http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504
 * Type:
 * Result:


 * - User   22:28, 20 January 2009 (EST) PS ignore regional code that is unimportant. All the You Tube video have a unique id ,in this case FZFG5PKw504, that is never reused.
 * Awesome. Pi, I don't care what everyone else says about you, I think you're great....TheoryOfPractice 22:33, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * Here is the project homepage. What have other's been saying about me? - User   22:35, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * You know, stuff... like, for starts, you're irrational... of course, i am imaginary... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:41, 20 January 2009 (EST)
 * It might not be paranoia. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Crumpets) <font color="Maroon">and butter'' 04:19, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ah, bruddah. What's this fragment of Creationist drivel for? (Obvious retort:  Okay, get a jar containing 20 billion gallons of peanut butter, and let it rest in the hot sun for a billion years....) --Gulik 05:00, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's for us to laugh at and write snarticles about. Yours trulyDear Sir 06:30, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * There should be a help file about youtube vids. Sterilerationalize 09:10, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not sure. I think it's something we should use very sparingly, only in one or two articles where the video is integral to the subject.  For anything else, the video should be an external link.  If we put in instructions, it will probably start being overused; same with the mp3 function; & our articles end up looking like shoddy MySpace pages.  There's also fair use issues if we start embedding copyrighted content (even though it's still YouTube's fault for hosting it).   09:20, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think the copyright issue falls squarely on YouTube, although the raid and closure of tv-links.co.uk set a precedent for attacking sites that merely "pointed" you in the direction of illegally reproduced material. Which, of course, puts google in a bit of a hazy place but they've never acted on it that I can tell. But my opinion on these particular kinds of vid is that if it's a message they want to get out there, then why copyright it and protect it from wide distribution? Is it Ken Ham who specifically doesn't copyright his vids for this reason? <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:27, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * If you get a jar of peanut butter and leave it in the sun for a billion years, you'll certainly have some salmonella in there. --Shagie 17:31, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Undent
 * Whatever you do with any videos: don't make 'em autostart. It eats up the bytes for dial up accounts at Mb speeds. (same goes for audio) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 20:38, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Heh!
Private Eye (23 jan issue) cover pic: Photo: Barack & Hills: Barack: "Can we still blame Bush for everything?"; Hillary: "YES WE CAN". (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 18:07, 21 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes. Yes we can.  Well, only because it actually was up until two years ago, and then it's still his fault because he didn't want to work with demmycrats.--Snotbowst 19:35, 21 January 2009 (EST)