RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive3

Otherkin...
Looking for content? Sorry, it's passed last call.... There's an after hours spot called Debate:Otherkin though, they'll love to host it over there.

Anyone else?
Anyone else wish PETA would just go fuck themselves? It's like The NRA, you're just embarrassed to have them on your side. In case you're wondering what brought on this seemingly random tangent, I read this this a few seconds ago SirChuckB  00:40, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * I agree. PeTA = NRA.  We need an article on "embarrassing (something) groups"?  ħ uman  02:04, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * We've already got really embarrassing liberals, including PETA.  08:06, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * PETA is one of those organizations that, when you first hear of them, you say to yourself "Gee, I could really get involved with something like that". Then once you realize what their aims really are you just say to yourself "What a bunch of wackos" and pretend that you never, EVER considered joining up. -Re dba ck 02:42, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * As a new friend told me, "If God really wanted us not to eat pigs, he wouldn't have made them out of yummy pork."-- [[Image:Asclepius staff.png|8px]]-PalMD -- 20:52, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's that damn delicious gene to blame!  ħ uman  21:28, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * I Love the taste of sea kittens. EternalCritic 11:35, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Land fish are superior, IMO... 67.42.138.161 12:04, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * You must not forget that meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. 59.167.54.170 03:50, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Ok, I'll add that new section you asked for
Don't know why you wanted it, but here it is. NightFlare 10:49, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Another new section?
You just won't stop asking for these! Can you never be sated? --Kels 11:15, 22 January 2009 (EST)

We obey its demands, and yet it wants more sections!
We are slaves to it!  Phantom Hoover  12:52, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Conservative Arguments
Can one of our Conservative friends explain something to me.... IS there some type of rule that you're not really conservative unless you blame the media for all your failings? Or is that just a strange coincidence.... And while we're at it, the next time a person says "George W Bush kept us safe from another terror attack," SirChuckB  15:54, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Depends if it's conservative or Conservative with the captial C you're talking about. But as Conservatives seem to whine on about the liberal media as a full time profession, I'd say yes, it's a prerequisite.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)

Celebrating the anniversary of Roe v Wade the Conservative way...
I guess he gets bonus conserva-points for pissing off the environmentalists at the same time by using an SUV in his protest. --SpinyNorman 16:46, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hey, that's true courage of conviction there... Ram your motorized vehicle into a building and then refuse to give your name to police, what a fucknut. SirChuckB  17:10, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * In all fairness, I don't think that you can label this "conservative": - "religious loon" rather. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) and marmalade 17:30, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Sorry, Toast, you're right - it was the beernuts talking when I wrote that headline. --SpinyNorman 18:46, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * So he crashes an SUV into a building, motivated by religion, chanting and praying at the same time... sounds familiar actually.  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:17, 23 January 2009 (EST)

Copied from Human's talk page
I came across this page http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/ from someone. I think it deserves some sort of mention on RW... At the very least in the pages mentioning that sarcastic conservativism is nearly impossible to distinguish from real conservativism. --Eira omtg! The Goat be praised. 20:15, 22 January 2009 (EST
 * I think that CP should have an entry for Christian Domestic Discipline.  20:32, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Could also be mentioned at Poe's Law?  ħ uman  20:49, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not sure just how much Poe's law applies - there are a number of sites about CDD all of which either put a religious bent behind a little BDSM play (and I don't see any problem there) or which attempt to legitimise wife beating (with which I have major problems). There's a lot of heavy reliance on that bit in the Epistles where St Paul goes on about wives being subservient. Silver Sloth 06:27, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * The BDSM article makes a snarky reference to this activity but I don't think it referrences this site specifically. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:38, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * "She is to obey him, as long as what he directs her to do is not in opposition to God's commands." Ha. Sounds a little like Asimov's Three Laws :P <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:39, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * CP DOES have an article - cp:Christian Domestic Discipline. How else do you think the sysops gets laid? --PsyGremlinWhut? 08:43, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is it parody? --CPAdmin1 09:09, 23 January 2009 (EST)

learnTogether was the last to work on it - 2 years ago. --PsyGremlinWhut? 09:32, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I mean the actual site. I don't really care what CP says. --CPAdmin1 09:33, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * No, very unlikely to be parody IMHO. It's got a fairly serious tone and doesn't go all out to truely condone wifebeating. D/s is a wide reaching and common lifestyle; upto 10% of the population may be "into it" by some guestimates so it's very likely that some people will want to bring religious justification to it. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:25, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC) I don't think it's parody but it doesn't seem to be anything to do with S&M either (at least consciously). I think that's just the conclusion people jump to about marital spanking.  Seems to be legitimising physical discipline as a means of dominance & punishment within marriage, which is much creepier.  11:28, 23 January 2009 (EST)

<tt>whois</tt> says it's registered anonymously via the same company ("Domains by Proxy, Inc.") as http://www.sexinchrist.com/, which is certainly parody. I believe that both sites are parody, and are run by the same guy(s). --Marty 21:33, 23 January 2009 (EST)

Who is CP's new Darth Vader?
I was idly clicking around the CP section of RW and ran into the Fun:Star Wars article. Now that Bugler has outed himself (thus betraying the Emperor, as in the movies- whoever called that was a genius), who should be placed as Darth Vader? I don't know the sysops of CP that well, so I don't feel like I can choose correctly for this one, but it's a role that does need to be filled. Hactar 21:21, 22 January 2009 (EST)


 * That's got to be TK, right? I mean, the whole "Emperor goes down the shaft" thing. Sir Sockpuppet 00:10, 23 January 2009 (EST)

Pandora Internet Radio
Anyone here use it? TheoryOfPractice 22:20, 22 January 2009 (EST)


 * I did for a while, but I put too many song definitions into my main station and it pretty much got caught in a rut. I haven't listened to it for months 'cause I'm sick of hearing the same 20 fucking songs over and over and over again and I'm too lazy to change my parameters or set all the usual songs my station plays on "sleep". I've been thinking about starting a new station for a while now, though. Whyd'yask? The electrocutioner 03:05, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * And, while we're on the subject: what's the matter with the Beatles, anyway? The electrocutioner 03:05, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * My Pandora question is more of a technical one--why do I remain signed in even after I clear my cache? How deep into my system is Pandora living? As for the Beatles--they wrote some nice songs. But lyrically, they don't hold a candle to, say, Dylan, or Leonard Cohen; they don't particularly rock very hard, get funky, or make me want to dance; and as instrumentalists, they were basically competent rock players--and there are lots of those around. Most of their genius was in George Martin's arrangements and orchestration. There's just not a lot of "there" there for me...TheoryOfPractice 08:51, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * "Most of their genius was in George Martin's arrangements and orchestration." - them's fighting words. Seriously they changed the face of popular music and, in terms of importance, are up there with Elvis for what they did. We could argue forever over the artistic merits of their work but their importance in popular culture cannot be denied. OK, so I know that popularity != greatness but their work, and, importantly their lyrics, touched millions whereas Leonard Cohen is, comparatively, an unknown. Silver Sloth 09:15, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * their lyrics, touched millions whereas Leonard Cohen is, comparatively, an unknown Appeal to popularity = an argument that 🇰🇪 would use. Surely you can do better. Now tell me about the cookies that Pandora is leaving on my hard drive. TheoryOfPractice 09:41, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * And that's quote mining by deliberately trimming the quote of the modifier. You also miss the We could argue forever over the artistic merits bit. What I would argue is that, a cultural icons, the Beatles are far more important than Leonard Cohen (though not Mr Z) - and, to be a cultural icon, you must be well known within that culture. Silver Sloth 09:52, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Qute mining? But I'm a liberal! That's a conservative tactic! But to the point--I don't care about cultural iconography. I like music that either makes me want to dance, gives me lyrics that make me feel and think, and awes me with technique, soul and virtuosity...the Beatles do little of either. It's personal. Now tell me about Pandora. TheoryOfPractice 10:00, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I've got personal feelings for the Beatles: they were very important in my young adulthood (& Ringo Starr bought me a drink!), as cultural icons they are unbeaten. Having said that Leonard Cohen can make me feel things I didn't know I was capable of feeling. It's horses for courses & depends on whether you measure by influence (Beatles) or talent (Cohen) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 11:32, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Is it possible that Pandora has a server database with your IP in it? I don't think they can do anything but store cookies on your machine unless you've ever downloaded anything other than music, that is. If they are adding spyware to downloaded tracks then they are very naughty. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 11:37, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Have you looked at your cookies? Websites seem to have become much more sophisticated in how long they keep a "session" running, from the hypercritical way my bank logs me out if I don't do anything for two minutes, to these MW sites where my log in is essentially permanent, and the in-betweens like Amazon and fleabay.  I think they make their decisions based on security, and an internet radio provider is not a security threat for you to stay logged-in to (unlike, say, one's banking connection). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I've noticed that whole "always logged in" thing too. It's kinda creepy, to be honest—but, then again, I've long since forgotten my password, so I'm not complaining (yet). Toast's IP-on-a-server theory makes a lot of sense, actually, since Wikipedia says that Pandora checks to make sure you're using the site from America by looking at your IP address—it's possible they've just stored yours somewhere and they've got their site hooked up to recognize you when you come back. Then again, I don't really know the dynamics of IPs very well, so it could be something else. The electrocutioner 16:42, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * "IP-on-a-server" sounds like a strange technophilic lunch entree. : )   06:02, 24 January 2009 (EST)

So I cleared my cache, brought my laptop to the library, surfed to Pandora and was still logged in, even though I had never Pandoraed from that IP before. It lives in my hard drive, itseems...TheoryOfPractice 21:36, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Your cookies, your cookies. Look at your cookies. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:41, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I eated them.TheoryOfPractice 21:45, 26 January 2009 (EST)

A Theory of Practice Apology....
...I just thought the otherkin would be a harmless crack that would end up in a stubby article about some woo. Looking over the Recent Edits for the last 24 hours, it has become apparent that we, like the Enterprise with the tribbles, are being overrun with otherkin talk. We can haz our wiki bak, pleeze? TheoryOfPractice 00:20, 23 January 2009 (EST) Professional printing & binding at lowest prices available. Contact: (+4M)ILQUE TOAST (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade  10:20, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * What ToP said!! [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 06:09, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * On a related note, I am a tribble Therian. Coo, Klingons scare me.-Diadochus 00:24, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't think you need to apologize. You brought woo to the collective attention.  We're analyzing and refuting it.  Isn't that the point?  Besides, this odd incursion/diversion will die down soon enough.  --<font color="#99CCFF">Arcan   ¡ollǝɥ  00:27, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, that--TheoryOfPractice 00:30, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * And, ironically unlike on CP, we've all learned a little something about something. I'm sure it will be useful on a regular basis to know what therians and otherkin are. Maybe we'll even put it on the mid-term. Goatspeed! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:39, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hmmm... RW Mid-term exams... interesting... <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 04:26, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Midterms? You should be well on your way with your thesis by now.

What are you talking about; it has been great fun? I have never met anyone older than six that thought they were a lion before. - User   06:19, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Holy shit! I'm gone for a day and a half and everyone's made of fucking cheetahs.  FFS people! Only on RW.Z3ro 11:12, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not made of cheetahs. I'm made of flour & butter & water & yeast & salt and I'm crisp and tasty (which cheetahs aren't) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 11:18, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * No, no! We aren't tasty- you've got it all mixed up! You want a nice cow therian! --" 18:17, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well thank the IPU for that!Z3ro 11:26, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, if some people are going to have relatively bizarre affinities for animals, it's not too much of a stretch to think people will begin to identify with baked goods too. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:27, 23 January 2009 (EST)

What's this I'm hearing about? You've been having a controversy—and no one thought to invite me? Shame! : )  06:06, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, I think this benefited both sites I belong too- or at least it will, once they calm down. You really managed to PO forverchargrin. Never seen him in such a fit before. --" 18:15, 24 January 2009 (EST)

More beer quotes!
As you might have noticed, I recently added a quote to the top, and I was wondering if anyone else would care to help me think of a few more quotes. Any takers?
 * Frank Zappa beer quote added. TheoryOfPractice 10:03, 23 January 2009 (EST)


 * Being useless at wiki-ing I don't know how to add this but how about "I'd kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer", Homer Simpson? JoeDuffy 10:23, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * here you go


 * 1) "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Ben Franklin
 * 2) "Beer! The cause and solution to all life's problems." Homer Simpson
 * &mdash; Unsigned, by: Sheesh! / talk / contribs
 * As long as we like Simpson's beer quotes


 * 1) "A woman is more like a beer. They look good.  They taste good.  And you'd step over you're own mother just to get one.  But you can't stop at just one, soon you need to drink another woman."Z3ro 11:25, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * How sexist do we want to get? I've got some good ones. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  15:08, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * How about as little as possible? I've heard a few "good" jokes, too, but I try not to repeat them... or, invert them to mock the h8orz... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:18, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Give me some credit Human, I'm talking about anything that'd get be banned from Letterman, I'm just wondering if we're trying to stick to some rule of decorum here. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  16:28, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I thought your question was tongue-in-cheek... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:02, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * When I created Template:Bartop I'd always thought that the quote could be a transcluded template.  <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:23, 24 January 2009 (EST)

Copied from Template_talk:Wingnuttery
Is there a tangible reason why the title of this template is misspelled? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:54, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * It was a typo, but then I thought of someone I know called Terry, so I let it go.: ) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade  21:56, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can we swap it for something else. I think we're already using the wingnut in quite a few places, & mostly for specifically right-wing craziness.  If we're using this template for alternate lifestyle sort of craziness, it doesn't quite seem to fit.   22:03, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Come to think of it, whatever happened to the whole liberal "inclusive tolerance of non-mainstream lifestyles and subcultures" thing? -- 22:08, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * Stick "Rational" in there somewhere AK. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 22:13, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * See, that's exactly the problem right there: We establish this standard called "Rationality", based essentially on a very limited set of Western, positivist, materialist values, and then we use that standard to pass value judgements on all sorts of subcultures and lifestyles which do not seem to conform to this standard. It seems like an attempt to establish a dominant discourse, and to marginalize those groups which do not fit in with it, and I find it very difficult to see how this is in any way liberal or progressive. In fact, it seems closer to a typically conservative point of view, if anything. -- 22:51, 22 January 2009 (EST)
 * It may be lib/prog to accept folks with offbeat perspectives... but it's not rational to buy into any strange explanation for the way they are that they come up with. I think the Weasel said it well on CUR's talk page  - we all find stuff on here we don't really like, since we are all, besides hopefully being relatively rational, also human beings with our own personal idiosyncrasies.  The key is simply accepting that our "things" aren't rational and getting over it.  Now, as far as this template and where it was used today, it doesn't make sense.  It was made for articles that were "out there", mostly, as I recall, RobS' screeds, which long ago got moved to "essay".  Whether we want a template to use on articles about fringe groups or the like is another issue.  perhaps we should take this chat to the saloon?  That way we can partake of refreshments, instead of hardware, while discussing it? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:28, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * That is a strangely Ace McWicked looking Weasel, Human. - User   06:32, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * AK: I don't regard myself as particularly "liberal" or "progressive" and I don't think that that's what this wiki is about. It's about rationality which, like it or not, does IMHO require that " limited set of western, positive materialist values". You come at the argument from an academic point of view and apparently take it that anyone's beliefs should be considered in forming decisions, if those beliefs are outside the bounds of rational thought, I see no reason to give them table room. The "dominant discourse" is reason and the marginalisation is self inflicted. (Reminds me of Dawkins in discourse with a bishop or similar churchman [I paraphrase]: "Why should we listen to him, just because he's got an imaginary friend". That's what all these "marginalised" groups are like - trying to rationalise infantile ideas into a pseudo-coherent ideology) If it makes them feel better, fair enough, but they could kindly refrain from inflicting it on me. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade  06:29, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Toast, the problem is, where does this stop, if anywhere? What about indiginous peoples, for instance? Most of them have cultural and religious beliefs that are far from "rational", such as shamanism or spirit/ancestor worship. Are we going to have "snarky" articles that ridicule them as well? If we want to preserve our intellectual integrity, we ought to do precisely that, but that would tie in with some modes of thought that I'm not sure most here would like to be associated with. For instance, it's exactly that sort of thinking that led to e.g. Canadian indiginous children being removed from their families and brought up in the "rational" Anglo-Saxon dominant culture, with some pretty horrible results. You can call my point of view "academic" as much as you want, but the advantage of that PoV is that you sometimes realize that a particular mode of thought can have very concrete real-life implications, and I'm beginning to find that I don't like where ours is taking us at all. -- 11:31, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Agree with you totally AK, Other people can do whatever they want; but don't ask me to subscribe to their beliefs. If the Australian native people want to believe in the Dreamtime, then so be it, but I don't and won't, and will cry down any attempt to evangelise such beliefs. No more will I countenance Christians and their God figure or Therians and their animal beings being thrust upon me without squealing. (wrote more, thought better of it, removed it. Thinking ...)[[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade 11:47, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * (EC) Our POV is analysing & refuting & (to some extent) satirising unscientific beliefs. It isn't necessarily being intolerant of those beliefs or people's rights to hold them.  Our treatment of well established non-rational beliefs like transubstantiation or the resurrection of Christ is from a point of view of skepticism - not wholesale dismissal but pointing out the potential flaws, contradictions or implausibilities of these beliefs - as is our treatment of fringe beliefs like therianism, and I would hope our treatment of indigenous shamanistic beliefs if we were to write about them too.  Other sites like Wikipedia will write about these in a NPOV way, but that isn't what RW is about.   11:51, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Just wanted to say that this is fairly interesting. Can't contibute anything really constructive much myself but I'm kind of going with Weaseloid. We need to be critical, you can be accepting of people (What AKjeldsen is aiming for) and highly critical of them (as is Toast's wont) at the same time. It is possible. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:46, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Love the sin, hate the sinner, I say. Live and let die. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:52, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * AK's right. The most irrational thing anyone can do is to be completely rational. I think I summed that argument up in my third Lenski-esque piece of work. We all need to be respectful of other's views. The most rational thing to do is to try to find a rational explanation. But here's where the line is blurred- therianthropy is the way one feels. Feelings are not rational. There are rational explanations for feelings- electrochemical impulses. But the feeling is not rational. I can deal with snark- as I've shown countless times. But I cannot deal with severe accusations- the charge of being 'recruiting' was one such incident. You cannot refute an emotion- do not waste your time trying to. If you want to point out flaws, that's helpful- we can try to find an explanation for them. See, therianthropy is flexible. I think (and this is just me thinking) that the problem you have is the idea of religion and spirituality being inflexible. But therianthropy is flexible for some of us, and I am willing to ponder any flaws pointed out. Now, on to shamanism- by nature, you cannot prove it wrong or right, as at it's heart, is is saying (I think, I'm no shaman- just a bit of an odd ecologist) that everything and everyone is connected, and that one should seek harmony. How is that different from environmentalist? They just go about achieving harmony different ways, and call it different things. --" 17:53, 24 January 2009 (EST)

I say, I say, I say ....

 * ... why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas confused? Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.
 * One for π: I have a complex relationship with my girlfriend. I'm Real, and she's Imaginary..
 * and one for Trent: Some people think the glass is half empty. Some people think the glass is half full. Database admins think the glass is twice the size it needs to be.
 * (I'm B O R E D ! !) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) <font color="Maroon">and marmalade  17:02, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * You feeling a little lonely here Toast? Nice joke though. - User   18:26, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * So, er, what's the punch line for the H/C joke? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:16, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Highlight to see answer. Oct 31 == Dec 25.  Its a bit old of a joke - octal isn't that common anymore.  --Shagie 23:21, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I feel violated by the Halloween/Christmas joke... <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 05:53, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * I cut my teeth on octal, long before hex became the big kid on the block. As for the pessimist/optimist, half full/empty I was arguing this with some friends just yesterday. Because you can turn the half full or half empty view to be the opposite of what some people think. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:32, 24 January 2009 (EST)

Interesting News Article
I saw this article on MSNBC about cyberbullying, and I thought others might find it interesting. Most notably, at the end, the article talks about school administrators ability to limit students online activities, even when those activities occur away from school. I hope one of these cases ends up before the supreme court and free speech wins.Z3ro 17:03, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * Indeed. It is a problem with MySpace/Facebook etc. that they've become so popular that you that have to be careful what you say on them 'cause your boss/coworkers/teachers might be reading it.   19:20, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * There was actually a case regarding something that here in Colorado..... Ah, there it is for those too lazy to read, basically a kid posted something on his MySpace page, other people copied it and sent to friends, eventually the school found out and suspended for five days, later extended to ten. Six days in, the ACLU of Colorado threatened to sue and the school backed down.  It's a very strange area..... Because if you're posting into something public, well you're taking your chances that it could come back to you... A very funny situation. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  20:54, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, but in that case you linked to, it looks like the kid had a security-protected Myspace profile so, even though it was a public site, his post was only visible to people on his friends list. It came back to him through one of his friends copying it & posting it to another site.   21:19, 23 January 2009 (EST)
 * I was commenting more on the free-speech angle. Working for a public company, if I post something online saying "I hate my boss", they are well within their rights to fire me.  No one is saying I have freedom of speech at a public company.  However, if a student posts "I hate my teacher", that speech should be covered under the first amendment as the teacher is a government employee.  We all can say we hate the president without repercussions, this should be no different.Z3ro 09:52, 24 January 2009 (EST)

Need help
Sometime a while back, probably during one of the boycotts, people were posting links to fun, simple, online games (like Dolphin Olympics). There was one in particular I liked, but I can't remember the name of it. It involved this ball you had to guide to a destination by placing various boxes that changed its trajectory. Not the best description, really, but does anyone know what I'm talking about, and can they post a link? Thanks. DickTurpis 09:03, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Pretty sure you're thinking about Launchball. It's one of the ones I really liked, too. --Kels 12:10, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Actually, that wasn't it, but that is a really cool game. The one I was thinking of had only 4 boxes, I think, which sent the ball in one of four directions. This game was cooler in a way, though few of the levels were difficult. DickTurpis 15:41, 24 January 2009 (EST)

Computer help
How do you upload .tiff files? I know you can't upload them, but how do you change them to a compatible format?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:29, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Depends what software you have of course :) But most will do it - Windows Picture and Fax Viewer for instance, if you open the tiff and then press Ctrl-S, you change the file type to gif, jpeg etc. <font color="#000099">Worm  (<font color="#000099">t  17:40, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Sorry, should've made that clear; I use a Mac.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:55, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Tried it on preview; it worked. Thanks.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  17:59, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * ~ Don't forget that a Tiff image might be pretty big & so might it's converted equivalent: might benefit from reducing in pixel size too.Smattering 18:06, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's just an image of my sig, and is therefore tiny.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  18:07, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Although it's overkill for just interconverting between image formats, Gimp is a free and good program for fiddling with images, and it's available for Mac. alt 18:09, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * "Moving" from tiff to jpeg is bound to save a lot of bits - also keep in mind that you can set the degree of compression used when saving as a jpg. One issue that comes up with jpg is that multiple saves will make the image worse... png is better than jpg, by the way. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:22, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Unfortunately, you can't edit pngs in Windows photo gallery.  19:03, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Download Gimp it is free. - User   19:23, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * And old versions of Paint Shop Pro are cheap (I'm running 6.x, I think). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:46, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * I tried GIMP once, but I wasn't willing to grapple with the wholly unfamiliar GUI. But that's okay—I have Photoshop.  : )   01:56, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * There is also a cross-platform program called ImageMagick that handles a lot of these image-manipulation tasks in a command-line fashion. [[Image:Mjollnir.svg|20px]]ListenerXTalkerX 02:07, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * (undent) On Windows, you'll be wanting to use IrfanView. Modern (>=XP) versions of Microsoft Paint can also read and write PNG. --Marty 03:04, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Point one
There is no simple way to find this page. Should we add it to the main page, at least? How about the box of "useless links" that's on RC and WL? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * Have you looked at the nav sidebar lately? It's right under the link to the intercom.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  04:56, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Oopsie, no, I hadn't ;) Thanks! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:53, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Point two - completely unrelated
Apparently, the quartet that played at BHO's inaugural "lip synched" to a recorded performance, "out of fear that the instruments would break due to the cold". Obviously, one more reason why BHO is not "really" the POTUS. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:36, 24 January 2009 (EST)
 * As one who once worked in the entertainment industry I think you'll find that this is far more common than is generally perceived. BTW, it wasn't so much that the instruments would break as you can't expect anyone to give a performance when their fingers are numb with cold. Silver Sloth 04:59, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Actually, the biggest problem, and the one which triggered the recording, is that the instruments couldn't hold their tune. Ever wondered why there are no stringed instruments in a marching band?  Stringed instrument lose their ability to stay in tune as cold weather constricts the individual strings.  Pianos are really bad... I can't remember the statistic off the top of my head, but at 55 degrees, a Piano has like two hours before it will have to be retuned.  What's worse?  A recorded performance, or an out of tune quartet playing at such an important moment?  And oh yeah, they did play it live, but only the people in the first few rows could hear them. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  11:35, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Atheism Wiki
"Moved from Talk:Main Page." To RW

I recently posted an open letter to Atheism Wiki encouraging them to feel free to work with us, and possibly make a direct link from this site to theirs, and vice versa. I probabally should have discussed this before posting the letter, but hey, I still made the move. I cannot think of a single negative consequence either way, so... input please ;)
 * Our article on them would certainly have a direct link. Do we have such an article?  Otherwise, we don't really scratch to get scratched back... As I (respond to.ignore) the endless people who request "link swaps" or whatever the hell you call them to my business email address - you want to link to me?  Fine, go ahead.  Will I link to you?  Only if I think you bring something of value to my customers. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have similar sentiments to Human, though I take it one step further: I would contest the creation of an Atheism Wiki article.  I feel that AW is so minor that the only reason to have an article on it is wankery.  There are a number of prominent atheist sites that really do merit their own article—but Atheism Wiki is not one of them.   01:50, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I've never really looked at AW but I assumed it was relatively prominent. We have an article on Liberapedia and RationalWikiWiki and I don't think you can get more minor than those as far as media wiki sites go. It's not harming anyone to make an article on it and give it going-over with a rational and critical eye. I certainly don't think it's going to harm RW to make firendly links (and by that I mean constructive dialogue/co-operation more than just a few click-here links) with other sites. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 05:21, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't think we should endorse other sites as such, or make link bargains with them. However, it would do no harm to have a page somewhere on RW which lists other wikis, forums, blogs that might be of interest to users.  It would also give editors a space to plug their own blogs or their favourite (mission-related) sites.  08:26, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * We already have that, as I recall. Something like RW:blogroll? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:55, 25 January 2009 (EST)

I'm in Japan right now.
Just bragging.--<font color="#000066" >Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum 05:20, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * My supervisor has just got back from Japan. In a bizarre twist of irony, being on the other side of the planet has made him easier to contact because he was just constantly on a laptop and plugged into the net, rather than swanning around the department where no one knows where he is. But anyway, enjoy Japan, I hear it's excellent, if a little expensive and just a bit crazy. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 05:23, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * What part of Japan you in Tom? I went in 2007 (mostly travelling round Honshu) & really want to go back.   08:29, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Kansai area, pretty much. It's pretty sweet.--<font color="#000066" >Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum 08:54, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * make sure to grab some Takoyaki then. That's like a requirement when visiting the Kansai region ENorman 12:04, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I've never tried the stuff, but it sounds like something that'd be worth going to Japan for. --Kels 12:09, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Takoyaki is worth trying; I had it at least once or twice when I was there. On a sidentote, I was in a sushi bar once & picked what looked like a dish of takoyashi off the conveyor belt (they look like this), only to bite into one of them & find it was profiteroles in chocolate sauce.  It was a totally weird thing to eat by mistake in the middle of a sushi meal.  Anyway, make sure you visit Himeji castle.  It's unmissable.   12:19, 25 January 2009 (EST)

In related news, just had my visa approved, so will be there in June/July for the eclipse. That's down Okinowa way, but will def be spending time in Tokyo (Akihabara here I come!) and Hanshin. --PsyGremlinWhut? 06:00, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Intercom
Why can't I use the intercom? When I try it tells me that I don't have permission.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  05:27, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Which message group were you trying? I think the "urgent" one is restricted (but not really used anyway).  Try the "general site news" one.   08:35, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I tried that.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  09:04, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Policy issue
When there is a breach of privacy, can we have a policy that the first sysop to see it hides the information, then after some number of sysops concur, the restrictions are applied to sysops as well?  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  08:06, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think the first guy on the scene should make the decision about how deep it needs to be buried. Inviting others to comment is just making them look at the personal info & drawing attention to it, which misses the point.   08:32, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, but deep burying edits makes them irretrievable without deleting and recreating the page, an impossibility on talk WIGO, and if restricted to three sysops, for instance, an appropriate system for hiding the information permanently is created. Remember that hiding the edit shows up on recent changes and the deletion log, which invites more people to look at it than permanently burying it.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  09:04, 25 January 2009 (EST)

How do I hide edits? *blush* :(-Diadochus 12:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Go into the edit history and click the "show/hide" link beside the edit you want; check the sysop guide for more.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:21, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Let's try to keep use of this feature/bug to an absolute minimum (like, 0 K), OK? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:42, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I agree with Huw—deleterevision is not something that should be used casually.  00:10, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Jacob's right. We, ideally, will never use it.  It's only there in case some troll or idiot posts personal info that in highly compromising of someone's real life. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:33, 26 January 2009 (EST)

MOAR Goat!
From arson to car thief! I suppose this article could also go in WIGO world, as it involves significant amounts of woo.131.111.8.98 12:05, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's already on WIGO world.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:06, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Darn it, the story was under "breaking news" so I thought it was brand spanking new! Oh well, I'm just doing my part to get it on as many pages as possible.131.111.8.98 12:10, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * MOAR KITTY! I came up with MOAR! Do I get any credit? --" 12:08, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * No you didn't, CUR.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:13, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Rephrase: Brought it to attent-shun! --" 12:15, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * You didn't do that either. Check the WIGO CP archives for "moar Hitler".  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:16, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Rebrought to attent-shun!
 * Um... no, you didn't. -<font color="#000000">Re <font color="#FF0000">dba <font color="#000000">ck 12:27, 25 January 2009 (EST)

(unident) But I was the first to capatalize it all. --" 12:29, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * No you weren't. My god... -<font color="#000000">Re <font color="#FF0000">dba <font color="#000000">ck 12:32, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * CUR, it's been common internet slang for some time.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:36, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Back on topic, this was so hilarious, I brought to attention the satarizing the news thread on the Werelist. --" 13:35, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Tee Hee
Off Resonance's Palin Flow Chart --" 12:21, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Can we make one for you as well?  12:25, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Sure, why not? However, no personal attacks please. --" 12:27, 25 January 2009 (EST)

I think that image is already uploaded, and on our Palin article. Yep, here it is.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  12:35, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * What? Like "Are you being personally attacked for therianism? --> No --> Complain that you are anyway" :P <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:28, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Request
Could a 'crat demote Phantom Ninja to bot and sysop? I want a bot sock if I ever need to do repetitive edits.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  15:15, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I don't like this. We should be able to see everybody's edits, repetitive or otherwise.   16:20, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * You can see bot edits, it just doesn't show up by default.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:26, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Recent changes allows people to easily see bot edits. 216.221.87.112 16:26, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * You really need to use permanent login.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:27, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Fonts
Can anyone tell me a script font that works on Macs and PCs? I want to get my sig sorted out.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:18, 25 January 2009 (EST)


 * The problem isn't the font working or not, it's how many people have it installed (if you care about others seeing your sig the same way you do, that is). Unfortunately, script fonts are not that common, but you could try Lucida Calligraphy, which is installed by Office, so more people should have it -- Nx  talk 16:31, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * <font face="lucida calligraphy">I'll try it.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:42, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * It's all right, but I prefer Zapfino.  <font color="#007500" face="zapfino">Phantom Hoover  16:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yeah, it's a nice font, but it's only included in OSX. Maybe use an image instead? -- Nx  talk 16:49, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * And assuming that by "PC" you mean "PC running Windows" - there are plenty of people around who don't use either Macs or Windows, you know... alt 16:53, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * (ECs) You could use the image of your sig that appears on your user page as part of your signature. Problem is that it wouldna link to your page, so you could add some more text afterwards linking there. [[image:weaseloid.jpg]]<font color=gray face="comic sans ms">like this maybe? 16:54, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * <span class="imagelink_ph"> --  Nx  talk 17:15, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Interesting. Is it possible to make that imagelink a customisable thing so that anybody can easily make any image into a link to any page?   17:35, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Not the way I did it now. However MediaWiki 1.14 will add this feature. -- Nx  talk 17:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Or by using extensions -- Nx  talk 18:18, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * And then there's this trick too -- Nx  talk 18:33, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * So is that creating a link & then hovering the image over it?  18:40, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes. Ugly, but it's available to anyone and you can link to any image -- Nx  talk 18:43, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * Someone should tell CUR about this trick. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:07, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think it works now; 103 thankyous, Nx! 11:17, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Wait, the version you just signed with doesn't work... in fact, it's just the image and its link... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:32, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I know, at that point I hadn't realised that I had set my sig to the images; fixed now. 15:26, 26 January 2009 (EST)

All good?
We are having the largest traffic spike since the Lenski affair hit, anyone noticing slow downs or errors? tmtoulouse 00:47, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Seems pretty much SNAFU to me, as in, OK. Any idea why the traffic?  Are they lemurs? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:08, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Pefect storm, two front page stories on reddit that link to Poe's law on first couple comments, a something awful forums post, and the wonkette piece. tmtoulouse 01:09, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I am stoked then, this amount of traffic literally ground our old server to a halt, and we are barely breaking a sweat at around 0.35 cpu load. tmtoulouse 01:11, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well congrates on the upgrade. Looks like all the work you put in was worthwhile. We don't thank you enough for the time you give up for us. - User   01:35, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, thank you, Trent, for all the work you've put in to improve the site.  04:10, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Here ya go Trent, a virtual glass of 1897 Pinot Mingina, African Import, on me.
 * Good work Trent. Incidentally, do we also get a noticeable rise in the level of new editors joining the site when there is a traffic spike caused by other sites linking to us?  I guess it's pretty hard to tell, with so much of the account creation log currently being taking up by vandal socks.   10:17, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Any site with heavy linking and traffic will attract it's fair share of vandals or bots signing up. We're just going to have to deal with it :S. But if they also bring along decent contributers, it's hardly that much of a problem. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:26, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Alexa hasn't got the figures yet; what sort of spike are we talking about? [[Image:Phantom Hoover sig.jpg]] 11:07, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Shouldn't we have a bugler fanfare? <font color=Blue>Генгис    15:33, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Alexa is sort of a shit measurement for us, their primary means of determining rank is through data collected by their toolbar. Their toolbar only functions well in IE, which is fine for the majority of the internet where IE is still king but on our site IE makes up less than a third of our overall traffic. We are at 55 percent for mozilla and 10 percent Safari and a few others. Hell we are not even 80 percent for windows based machines. Our traffic is not really "alexa" compliant. Anyway, the spike is on order of what we were getting for Lenski about 2-3 times our average visits. tmtoulouse 16:27, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * True, as a geek site, it's only going to attract geeks who wouldn't touch IE with a barge pole and have a rather disturbing tendency to masturbate over the word Firefox. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 13:04, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * For the record, I am a geek myself (see Jeopardy test below) and I use IE... In fact, brace yourselves: I HATE FIREFOX There you go, <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  13:34, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ditto.  13:38, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * I prefer Safari as it loads faster. 14:01, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ackshully, there is an Alexa toolbar for Firefox, too. --BoN 09:01, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Mafia Online
Like the card game on IRC or something. I played it in RL a couple of days back for the first time in a couple of years and became addicted again. Anyone know any IRC channels where people are actually active and play? RyanC 01:33, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Don't know about IRC, but there's usually a couple of Werewolf games (pretty much same concept) going on in the Paradox Interactive forums. They're in the Off-Topic forum, though, which you have to be a member to access. -- 11:34, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Is it not about time
To remove CUR's Sysop status? he is becoming beyond a joke. RationalWiki Overall Pain in the arse 18:28, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * No, because that would be censorship. And I wouldn't be able to edit my own user page. And you'd just vandalize everything belonging to me. We know why you want my sysop status removed- so you can vandalize my pages. --" 18:30, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'll unlock your userpage for you. However moving pages isn't a sysop privilege so he is yet to actually abuse his sysop rights more than any other newbie sysop. - User   18:34, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Right. ROPITA, who are you? --" 18:35, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hey Vinny, check out that pair-a-noids over there. Seriously though CUR, not everyone is out to get you. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  18:37, 26 January 2009 (EST)

(unident) Wouldn't put it past him, though. --" 18:39, 26 January 2009 (EST)


 * And now the little idiot has vandal binned without cause. CUr has Vandal binned RationalWiki Overall pain in the arse 18:40, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * ROPITA is out now. - User   18:41, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Oh hai guise wut's going on here? RationalWiki Highly Specialized Pain in the Arse 18:47, 26 January 2009 (EST)


 * The above is not me. CUr has Vandal binned RationalWiki Overall pain in the arse 18:49, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Now it is not time to start forming a lynch mob even if there is only one of you doing. - User   18:50, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I beg to differ. It's you who's not me. RationalWiki Highly Specialized Pain in the Arse 18:53, 26 January 2009 (EST)

This conversation, or at least, the lucid parts of it, should be taking place at the star chamber RW admin abuse page, whereever that is. If the plaintiff is serious, anyway. And desysopping is not censorship. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:46, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Hah! I enjoyed that Love² (AKA RationalWiki Highly Specialized Pain in the Arse etc.) (Random passwords now lost) 19:50, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * s the song that never ends,
 * It just goes on and on my friends
 * Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
 * And they'll continue singing it forever just because
 * This is the song that never ends,
 * It just goes on and on my friends
 * Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
 * And they'll continue singing it forever just because
 * This is the song that never ends,
 * It just goes on and on my friends
 * Some peop
 * RationalWiki Highly Specialized Pain in the Arse 21:04, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Fresh Start
If I start reforming, can I get a clean slate? And can we please drop the discussion about therians- unless I get some a peer-reviewed paper, in which case I will tell you? --" 20:19, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Fine by me. Barkeep will clear you tab. - User   20:21, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thank you. Free at last, from my foolish youth! --" 20:23, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Dont start reforming: reform! Love² 20:25, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Here we go! Yippee! I've been forgiven! For my first act, I will add snark to the therian article! --" 20:27, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Don't get carried away. Why not make small copy-edits and ask RA if you can help out with some maintenance stuff? - User   20:33, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Look at the snark. They are small edits. Just putting in some things only I would know about. --" 20:36, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * You see that is why it fails to be funny. - User   20:38, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I defined them. So know you know about them too. --" 20:40, 26 January 2009 (EST)

And can we please drop the discussion about therians- If you really want to drop the discussion, you should think about stepping back from the article. It's hardly fair for you to say "I don't wanna talk about it" while editing a red-button article....TheoryOfPractice 20:45, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think I should be able to edit the article without stirring up to much argument about myself. --" 20:46, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * No you can't leave it alone. - User   20:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Yes I can leave the discussion alone. No I can't leave the article alone. It needs more goat. --" 20:48, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * You have never, ever done anything on this wiki without stirring up an argument. TheoryOfPractice 20:49, 26 January 2009 (EST)

(unindent) Therefore the application for a fresh start, a clean slate. I was initially mal-adjusted to RW, I freely admit that. --" 20:50, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * CUR stop trying to improve things, just help. - User   20:52, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * EC Then consider not editing an article (for a little while, at least) that has marked the culmination point for that sort of nonsense. Discussion is an integral part of the editing process. You don't want to discuss the issue--how can you effectively edit it? TheoryOfPractice 20:53, 26 January 2009 (EST)

(unident) I can deal with discussion about the article. I just don't want to bring up HCM again. --" 20:55, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * I always treat every edit you make as a fresh slate. I only treat you like an idiot when you're being one.  The few times you have demonstrated lucidity, I have treated you as lucid. This thread veered away from lucidity with your third edit to it.  <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:56, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * But not everyone takes the same opinion as you. --" 20:57, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * You realize that what you just wrote is incomprehensible, right? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:11, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Some don't forgive with every edit. --" 21:12, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ah, ok, that clarifies it, thanks. No, they don't, and I don't blame them. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:24, 26 January 2009 (EST)

CUR, if you want a clean slate I suggest completely dropping the Therian issue on RW. Satisfy that element of your life elsewhere. Instead, spend time here contributing to the mission articles, like "OMG CREATIONISM IZ STUPID," etc. Do I need to give you a writing plan? :)-Diadochus 23:17, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Agreed. Continuing to edit the therian article is not dropping the discussion.  It's standing on a chair, waving your arms and shouting "IGNORE ME!!" as loud as you can. --Kels 23:29, 26 January 2009 (EST)

If he wants a clean slate do we desysop him? 13:58, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * If he wants a clean slate, why doesn't he adopt a new username and work his way up? Yours trulyDear Sir 16:58, 27 January 2009 (EST)

ThermaWiki
Can we please all return to our snarky discussions about CP and woo. On attention seeking jerk - and that's being very mild for what I really think - has turned this into Therepedia. A quick glance a the RC page shows that ~75% of edits are about therians or otherkin. This is a million miles beyond the joke. Silver Sloth 20:32, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'd love nothing better. I have no wish for this wiki to even have the word therian in it, except on my user page. --" 20:37, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Andy Takes a Leaf Out of Our Book
Looks like he moved the server. --" 20:44, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Smart guy. I wonder how long it will take him to get it configured? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:26, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * What makes me happy about all of this is that I'm damn sure Karajou took immense joy in our little server fiasco. But ours was resolved significantly quicker, and with less pain. Suck it, Petty Officer!-Diadochus 23:19, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * And here was me thinking it suffered a fatal an unrecoverable crash like Scifi-meshes did a few years ago. I'm quite disappointed now. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 13:02, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Flickr
What is the copyright status of picture hosted a flickr are they all creative commons? - User   22:33, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Only those labelled as such...TheoryOfPractice 22:54, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Doesn't look like the one I want is. - User   22:56, 26 January 2009 (EST)
 * Score found one I wanted. - User   05:45, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * Misread license. Epic phail. - User   05:49, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Non RW update
So I just registered for the Jeopardy Online Contestant Test.... Wish me luck and oh yeah, I've got some amatuer night gigs at local comedy clubs.... That's all, just trying to start to discussion <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  13:03, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * What sort of stuff do you do? <font color=Blue>Генгис    13:50, 27 January 2009 (EST)
 * Mostly observational.... My running theme right now is "These are things I hate, I have to talk about them somewhere and this is cheaper than therapy." <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  11:28, 28 January 2009 (EST)
 * Well, cheaper in dollars. More expensive in long-term craziness.  <font color="black" face="georgia">Z3ro  talk  11:56, 28 January 2009 (EST)
 * I usually just stick with "two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff" <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:43, 29 January 2009 (EST)
 * So, how'd you do on the test? I had to pass on 4 out of the 50, and one was a pure guess, but I'm solid on the rest.  Stile4aly 16:32, 29 January 2009 (EST)

What on earth?!
This will make your eyes bleed.
 * Well, Ken must have something to do while he's offline... Yours trulyDear Sir 16:45, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Random
This seems like a good place for random utterances... For some reason, this song really reminds me of Andy. It's also a hilarious song in general.-- 23:57, 28 January 2009 (EST)

Really sad news item
I just saw this on CNN and it has made me quite depressed. <font color=Blue>Генгис   10:25, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Very bad things happen. The father's probably not responsible for his actions. Proxima Centauri 11:39, 29 January 2009 (EST)

My condolences go out to all of those affected by this tragedy.-- Redcoat  17:41, 29 January 2009 (EST)

This makes me happy
Pretty funny, but I'm sure most people will have seen it by now. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 11:02, 29 January 2009 (EST)