User talk:Pbfreespace3/Drug Schedules

Thoughts on my ideal drug schedule? Anything you'd like to be added or moved? I want harsh criticism. Real harsh. Tell me why a certain drug needs to be placed on a certain portion of the schedule, and it may end up there. Progress only occurs after criticism. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 01:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Well first off...uhh...you know morphine is one of the most important pain medications, right? In routine use around the world? So don't ban that. And really there's no compelling reason to ban heroin either. It's not that much more potent than morphine. Heroin is legal in some countries for severe pain, such as cancer pain, and even stronger opioids like fentanyl are used around the world. Heroin is banned in the U.S. simply because it's considered "bad" by society (okay, really, that's true of every banned drug, but I digress), because people associate it with junkies shooting up in the alley. Upstanding patriotic American junkies support our pharmaceutical industry by doing oxy instead! Anyway, personally I'm for legalizing all drugs, though I want that in conjunction with universal health care and a concerted effort to provide therapy and counseling to everyone who needs it, to minimize the number of people turning to drugs to deal with their problems. Hey, I can dream. --Ymir (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to remind you that morphine is already a Schedule II drug in the US, and that doesn't stop it from being used in hospital environments to ease your pain when you've snapped your femur. Regardless, since they are the only drugs on my Schedule I, I will clarify what I mean. The reason why I banned heroin was because its addiction and dependence liability is very high. It impairs liver function and increases liability of respiratory infection. Quitting once addicted is extremely difficult, and involves extreme pain. Granted, alcohol and nicotine fit all of these definitions as well, but there are a couple of vital differences. First, heroin is easy to overdose on, especially as tolerance develops extremely quickly; this is not the case with nicotine. Second, heroin causes users to be extremely laid back and sluggish, whereas nicotene has something of an opposite effect. As a manager, would you rather have a third of your workers addicted to heroin or nicotine? For me, that's an easy question. Allowing heroin be legal just like cigarettes would actually cause large societal damage, whereas nicotene, caffeine, alcohol, cannabis, and others wouldn't. Cannabis was stereotyped in America the same as heroin is: it makes you sit all day and do no work. This is only partly true with cannabis, and the sativa species is actually stimulating and energetic, motivating creative work. Drugs like nicotine and caffeine were legal because masters wanted their workers to be productive and energetic. Whereas if they were smoking opium in dens on the railroad, that was eventually going to decrease productivity. Hence opium was banned. We should take another look at it today, but outright legalizing heroin like alcohol would be a big mistake in my opinion. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 00:17, 25 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Well yeah. Your Schedule I said flat-out banned, which is why I brought it up. I see you added "emergency hospital use" now, but that's still a change from the way things are at present in most countries. Some people are on morphine long-term for chronic pain, and there are other non-emergency situations like hospice where it's used. As for the history of opium, there was a big racial element that shouldn't be overlooked. Opium was stereotyped in the U.S. and other majority-white countries as a "foreign vice" imported by the heathen Chinaman that would corrupt good upstanding white people if it wasn't clamped down upon. I think like a lot of people you're being influenced by societal attitudes and downplaying the harms of alcohol and tobacco while exaggerating those of heroin and similar drugs. Lots of deaths result from alcohol and tobacco use. If you were going to classify drugs solely on health and dependency risks, alcohol, tobacco, methamphetamine, and most opioids would all be in the same category. Maybe cocaine, barbiturates, and benzodiazepines too. Some charts at right. --Ymir (talk) 02:56, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Don't take any of what I'm about to say as me disagreeing with your points. Ironically, your chart shows heroin as being by far the worst drug, followed closely by cocaine, barbiturates, and methadone. I'm sorry I failed to mention the racial component; it just slipped by me at that moment. But if we're going to talk about legal/illegal with regards to alcohol and heroin, I do think there is a fairly significant qualitative difference that should factor into drug policy: heroin should be much less legal than alcohol. Alcohol prohibition was largely a failure inasmuch as society got worse: that's my main reason for not criminalizing it. Although alcohol abuse is worse than heroin abuse, heroin abuse occurs in a far greater percentage of cases among users than alcohol, because heroin is far more addictive. It is far easier to have some wine or whisky at dinner responsibly and not have to have it tomorrow than it is to shoot heroin one day and not absolutely need another shot the next day. Do you see my point? In terms of total harm in a society where both drugs are completely legal, I think heroin would cause far greater damage than alcohol, because it's much more addictive. That's why I'm not boarding the bandwagon of heroin being sold at your local pharmacy like cigarettes.

Let's talk about alcohol though. I do agree that it can be quite harmful. I know people who can drink some wine and be just fine. It makes you sleepy. They're responsible users. I can have wine at dinner and be fine. On the contrary, I know several people who like to get blackout-drunk at parties, close to fatal overdose level. There isn't a whole lot I have the power to do. Under my ideal system, there would be a lot more alcohol education than there is now (on the order of cigarettes), and kids in high school would be learning in their health class how many drinks is too much. But the difference between alcohol and heroin is it's far easier to regulate your alcohol in a responsible way so as to avoid addiction. Heroin just isn't like that. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 00:51, 26 April 2016 (UTC)