RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation/Archive26

Taking Oxy out of sysoprevoke
Hey, I wanted to request to be taken out of sysoprevoke. I think you'll find my request very reasonable, I haven't had any major scruffles since the beginning of July, around the time Raven was unbanned, and I have been contributing to the wiki as well, albeit at a much slower pace than Raven. Despite a few minor hiccups here and there I think I have improved my record substantially, and I'd like to request a probationary period of being taken out of sysoprevoke, and if anyone sees fit, to demote me back to sysop, maybe in the future I can get all of my rights back, but we'll let time handle things. If I make one mistake I lose my rights and go straight back to sysoprevoke for a period of six months. Does that sound fair? — Oxyaena Harass  18:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What do you think? — Oxyaena Harass  18:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Coigreach (talk) 18:44, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean, what problem is there? Simply using the facepalm emoji tells me nothing. — Oxyaena Harass  18:46, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I just think this isn't going to work the way you hope. Did you notice that GR didn't actually request himself to be taken out of sysoprevoke? Hastur did, because protecting pages on Administrator level (due to your drive by rollbacks) would prevent him from editing too. He had made a lot of good constructive edits, and had demonstrated that he was willing to talk things over in talk pages instead of just rolling back things. Also, he hadn't again and again asked to have his bloody mop back and never even abused it before it was taken away the way you did.


 * I don't really like to antagonize you over much, but this isn't going to go any better for you than last time.Coigreach (talk) 18:56, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I say no. User has not demonstrated the necessary maturity yet.  Oxy, you were JUST blocked for edit warring.  Also, see this page--Hastur! (talk)  18:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean, Raven was also edit warring on that page and you still demoted him. It's also arguable he lacks the "necessary maturity," but I digress. As for the edit warring, two reversions to a page are permissible if I`m not mistaken, and it was already concerning an edit Raven had edit warred with overs over reverting. — Oxyaena Harass  18:52, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If you actually look at the talk page, you'll notice a discussion was taking place, where it was decided that Marx was in fact a racist and that it was worth noting in the article--Hastur! (talk) 18:53, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No, from reading it it was decided that Marx was a racist, and that it was also irrelevant to the article. — Oxyaena Harass  18:54, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Then you're not reading very carefully. AMG was the only other person raising significant objections, and that had more to do with denoting Marx's racism in relation to the rest of the article--Hastur! (talk)  18:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We already put this to rest, Oxy Those are your words.--Hastur! (talk)  18:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That was over a month ago. I also haven't asked for sysop back for over a month. Raven also did abuse his mop, that's why he had it revoked in the first place. — Oxyaena Harass  18:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Are we going to this every month? Hell in that vote one moderator said he didn't want to hear about it for the rest of the year--Hastur! (talk)  19:02, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ravens' direct abuse of his mop was sparingly and mostly was simply edit warring, and while I'd prefer to have seen a vote over the restore of his sysoprevoke, that sadly isn't the way things went. Your reason for having your mop taken is extremely different and is judged on different grounds. I am willing to go for the full probationary thing with Ronin's suggestion of having things you should obey on your profile again (but make no mistake I'm doing that under the 100% belief that we're just giving you the figurative rope to permanently hang your own sysop permissions with), presuming you don't instantly lose your shit the moment someone else criticizes your actions or is a bit of a dick about it during the vote. 19:05, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If we're going by Raven's precedent, a quorum of moderators is all we need. I still advise against it.  I don't get the impression that Oxyaena has matured since the last time around--Hastur! (talk)  19:07, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

No! Scream!! (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You pinged me, so here I am. My stance is still the same: probational demotion, probation to be reviewed by the mod team at a time of their choosing. RoninMacbeth (talk) 19:27, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am also not in favor of this a this time. Bongolian (talk) 19:24, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No, not yet. 20:07, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a no from me also. AceModerator 20:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

You started edit-warring again a few days ago over a subject that you don't like people editing. This time, it's the Karl Marx page (9 hours block). And you want your tools back after that despute? Really? It's been hardly a month! Gunther1987 (talk) 20:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I strongly feel that should get her tools back.  and  are both fkbois who have it out for Ox, and it’s not fair. Panther (talk) 21:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't have it out for Oxy. Oxy just has a history of poor behaviour, unfair blocking and binning and being a general pest. AceModerator 00:35, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah - and it went to a community vote - twice. Oxy lost both votes by wide margins then got abusive about it. AceModerator 00:36, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't pay much attention to comments from someone who clearly only created an account to insult two editors. Coigreach (talk) 00:46, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "Being a general pest," uh huh. — Oxyaena Harass  10:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this settled now, ? Do you want to call a formal vote (even if it's for my unsysoprevoke)? 14:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You're an asshole, Ace. — Oxyaena Harass  14:45, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm Raven, not Ace. And I am asking you whether you consider this settled or if you insist in a formal vote. 14:49, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * On both matters? Sure, why not. I`m up for a vote. I don't really care which way it goes, and I wasn't responding to you initially. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  14:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Oxy, it's disingenuous to both call for a vote and to not care what the results are. Bongolian (talk) 17:07, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We already held a vote on whether or not to restore Oxyaena's sysop rights, and we voted no. We aren't doing this every month.--Hastur! (talk)  15:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No: no vote; no unrevoke of Oxyaena. Scream!! (talk) 15:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This is fucking bullshit, never did anything wrong, this wiki should be thankful for his work dealing with assholes like Mike and Morris, but instead y’all are pissing on her. Fuck you Ace, fuck you GR, and fuck you Scream. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Panther / talk / contribs
 * --Hastur! (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this an Oxy sock? This person has the same colourfull vocabulary as Oxy (Especially on the amounts of "Fuck You").

Please sign your comments,. Also, I think it is unlikely to be Oxy considering what Z told me: Morris or similar like to defend Oxy's sysop tools so that they, in their mind, can help undermine RationalWiki (because they - I would add with some right - perceive Oxy to be a destructive force for the website). 16:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If you want to make a 3rd vote on whether to unsysoprevoke yourself by all means go ahead, but calling for a vote to sysoprevoke Raven again would just look petty and vindictive to me at this point so I'd advise against it. In any case I doubt that you will achieve anything with either so honestly just wait until the mods are more on board with the idea. 15:59, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If you think I'd use a sockpuppet to support myself, you don't know me at all. I've only used one account for the duration of my almost six year tenure at the wiki, sockpuppets are easy to see through, and I've never really felt comfortable using another account. Ace is still an asshole, GR is still an asshole, and so is Scream. That being said, I wouldn't use the pronoun "him" to refer to myself, a transwoman. You're far too paranoid. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  17:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Paranoid? Just because I ASKED whether that Panther person was a sock from you? There's more paranoia with you than there is with me, Miss I-think-every-single-BoN-is-this-DMorris-Guy..! Gunther1987 (talk) 21:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Scream, a mod, determined that there should be no vote taking place on Oxy's sysoprevoke. So I suppose this should be archived then? 17:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree to archive. Bongolian (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * One question, does this mean that the sysoprevoke will last in perpetuity? — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  17:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If (IF!) you continue in this manner then yes. Otherwise no. Scream!! (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sysoprevoke will last until a majority of the community deems it appropriate to lift it. GR had a very bad reputation when we put him in sysoprevoke, yet it didn't take too long to get it lifted and it wasn't very controversial. I think there are some lessons to be applied there. 18:09, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What the fuck did I do, ? All I did was describe the events you engaged in which caused you to lose sysop rights. That's it. AceModerator 23:36, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

tl;dr
Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 00:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

GrammarCommie
I temporarily removed his sysop rights as he was insisting on removing a post from the saloon bar. Please review--Hastur! (talk) 13:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Everyone please remember how trigger happy I am. Remember how I just up and promote people absent a Coop or a Mod action. Please do remember that. Oh wait, that's Hastur. The Same Hastur that got on my case for rolling back the removal of sourced material. Because when I do it, it's bad, and when he does it, it's good. 13:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * GrammarCommie, we do not remove talk page comments. You should know this by now.  That post was not even remotely offensive enough to even consider removing, although I'm curious as to what sort of case you'll make based off of their contributions.  I warned you a number of times, you didn't listen, so I took action, knowing that this measure would be temporary.  Now the moderators and the community may discuss the matter.--Hastur! (talk)  13:37, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Because I have to prove my innocence, and because Hastur is to lazy to go through the logs...
 * IP 2001:8003:59DB:4100: First edit to the Saloon, pissing on Cuomo, Trump's latest boogyman du jour.
 * Second edit to the Saloon, asking about action movies form the 80s. Pretty normal right? Well.. There's also this edit
 * Here they are removing sourced content from the Sargon page...
 * Here they are invoking Godwin's law and citing a shit source...
 * And here's today's post, which in context looks more like a troll trying to "own the libs"
 * Now, since I've made this point clear, can we move on, remove this garbage, and (re)demote me? 13:48, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Only log we need. Either way, the post itself was innocent. We don't just remove things because we don't like them.--Hastur! (talk)  13:50, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the only log you need is the one that makes you not look like an overbearing ass. Meanwhile, I provided evidence of a pattern of similar behavior from an IP range. 13:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Hastur, kindly don't remove people's roles. GC, I think we've had this discussion before in general. Just collapse it and respond with the dftt template. Don't remove talkpage comments, its one of the few things the community standards are explicitly clear on. 14:19, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I have mixed feelings about collapsing. Just leads to wheel-warring.  Also this particular post hardly needed to be collapsed.--Hastur! (talk)  14:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The problem with that solution is that it doesn't work. That's kind of why the trolls shitpost in the saloon. They know they'll get a reaction. 14:25, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Collapse and short term block them then. 14:26, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * They're using a rotating IP range. Even if they aren't using a proxy they can still just wait until it the IP signature shifts or they can just restart their router. This shit is pretty kid level. Now, if they were actually smart they'd use multiple Proxy IPs at random which would be harder to pin down as the same person, chiefly because there wouldn't be any similarities between the IPs. Like, I know how to pull these stunts, so maybe it's easier for me to spot someone doing this than for Hastur or yourself, but whatever. 14:35, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * In that case, perhaps request an update to the CS so that this can be handled in some form? Because as is, when interpreting the rules both in letter and in spirit, your removal of discussion items is in clear violation of the CS. I can get your sentiment (and let me be clear, if the CS wasn't explicit on this bit, I'd agree with you), but it's difficult to argue when the CS are very clear about not removing talkpage comments. 14:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hastur is in clear violation of CS here. We shouldn't be operating under the principle of "ask for forgiveness, not permission." I suggest he be troutslapped, or given another minor sanction. RoninMacbeth (talk) 15:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I suggest trout slapping both parties here. 15:18, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why this BoN is being seen as a troll. Is the IP a known IP or something? Asking whether Pence would try to run for President in 2024 isn't actually trolling. Gunther1987 (talk) 15:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Alternatively GC could just stop removing other people's comments, he's removed mine many times now, even at one point removing the same comment 3 times in a row, he's removed comments of mine from pages like LGMs talk page, the saloon bar etc. And that's just my comments, he's also systematically removed comments from lots of other people, over a long time, like years. And yes this is a complaint, I don't like it when I'm trying to talk to people and GC comes along and silences me, or when he asked me something on the saloon bar and removed my reply so it appeared I hadn't answered, etc etc it's kinda upsetting to me. And I'm an established member of the wiki and sysop not some BoN, and others who have had their comments removed by GC are also long term members, so it's morally unjustified and clearly against policy for him to do it, yet nothing is done about it ever even tho it keeps happening. 15:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

,, , , , Can you guys sort this out? You're Mods after all. Gunther1987 (talk) 15:44, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * GC really does need to stop fucking removing harmless talk page stuff. He even does it to established users. He needs to cut it out. 17:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * GC was overreacting when he collapsed a post that could at least start an interesting conversation. Hastur, on the other hand, also completely overreacted. This at most should be several mods having a conversation with him on his talk page and flat out telling him to stop. Promotion was little better than Hastur prosecuting his own petty vendetta.-Flandres (talk) 17:25, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hastur was out of line too, but I’m more frustrated with GC right now since his problem has been going on for a long time. 17:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * GC undid the troll collapse that you removed from the Mike Pence topic in the bar, saying "Don't fucking remove this again".
 * I'll repeat my question: Who is that BoN and why is that trollish? Is he Mikemikev? Gunther1987 (talk) 20:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I expect no one is very interested but to answer Gunther1987’s question, I doubt the BoN is anyone established but they likely are a vandal. Since at least April the wiki has seen recurring dubious edits from IPs resolving to Melbourne on the 2001:8003:4000::/35 range. Editing pattern is consistent and broadly edits take three forms (the following is an overview and not comprehensive):
 * Straight vandalism (usually spamming a picture of Trump and/or the words four more years to various pages but sometimes more generic). Examples
 * Adding references to articles that attempt to undermine the article or link to conservative junk/ memes. Examples
 * Shitposting conservative junk and memes to the WIGO talk pages and the bar (seemingly for the reaction). Examples
 * The 2001:8003:4000::/35 range has been blocked from Wikipedia and wikiquote for disruptive behaviour already. They seem to have moved to here now. Overall looks like a standard conservative troll, if somewhat persistent.WatcherIntheDark (Codeword:) 02:44, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Grammarcommie is a power hungry editor. Strip him of his blocking rights.

If he has an overwhelming desire to have a lot of power over people, I suggest he master public speaking and try to be elected to public office. That's what Adolf Hitler did.

Better yet, he needs to find a way to overcome his control issues.Rintintin (talk) 08:23, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Hastur
I propose (re)sysoprevoking Hastur, as his little stunt with promoting GC shows he does not respect the community standards nor arguing in good faith. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  15:18, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hastur is a bit troubling, but this isn't big enough for sysoprevoking yet, I think. A smaller sanction might be more appropriate. RoninMacbeth (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Read my comment in the section above. 15:22, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm opposed to desysoping . 15:24, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Nobody needs their sysop removed IMHO. 15:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

,, , , , This shit too, since this looks like the 104th Archived Chicken Coop all over again... Gunther1987 (talk) 15:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Remember that Hastur was sysoprevoked for years. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  16:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) Hastur should not have demoted GC. 2) No evidence has been provided as yet by Hastur. 3) Unless someone can provide evidence that Hastur is misbehaving in a manner similar to what caused the previous sysoprevoke, it does not seem particularly relevant at this point. I'm not keen on meting out punishment at this point. Bongolian (talk) 16:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Something that happened years ago is hardly relevant. 17:06, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * With Bongolian. Seems to me that a lot of people on this wiki should GROW THE FUCK UP. It's like being in kindergarten Scream!! (talk) 17:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am against sysoprevoking Hastur. That's all. No misuse happened and he quickly went to the mod noticeboard to notify the mod team, as he was required to do. 18:27, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2) No evidence has been provided as yet by Hastur What do you mean, if I may ask?--Hastur! (talk)  19:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Links to the talk page edit removals would be helpful. Bongolian (talk) 23:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * He wasn't exactly contesting that he removed it. He was quite determined--Hastur! (talk)  23:10, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, GC's edits were unreasonable in those cases. If GC just agrees to stop unwarranted talk page edit removals such as these, we can put this to sleep. Bongolian (talk) 23:20, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'd recommend to GC that they not remove talk page edits altogether, actually.  They seem to have a rather loose standard as to what kinds of edits are unacceptable.  Instead, if GrammarCommie finds something posted to a talk page to be questionable, they ought to seek out a third party to make the judgement and intervene--Hastur! (talk)  23:23, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Co-sign this proposal. GC just has bad judgement on this kind of stuff. 23:25, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd also not be in favour of sysoprevoking (either Hastur or GC). But I don't think Hastur should have de-sysopped GC, such a thing should only be done as an emergency action and reverting talk page comments doesn't qualify in my eyes. --RWRW (talk) 23:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If GC has not called for any specific retribution, and it seems that GC hasn't done so, why is it any one else's business? Did anyone ask GC if they needed support? GC seems quite capable to me.Ariel31459 (talk) 04:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

It is part of Oxy's vengeance seeking; only that. Nothing else. 05:28, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Is the June shit going to start all over again?
Talking about this. Because the "punishments" were clearly not working ("slapping with a wet noodle"? Are we a bunch of wimps scared of giving real punishments or what?) Gunther1987 (talk) 15:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe we don't have a boner for punishing anyone who raises a dumb issue? 15:50, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place to begin with. Don't need a rageboner for this, just some normal action. Gunther1987 (talk) 15:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * June Drama 2: Electric Boogaloo. --RWRW (talk) 00:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Basically enough for a sitcom or 2. Gunther1987 (talk) 02:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Is any action either wanted or required?
OK. I'm here now. Has everybody calmed down? Is there any need to punish anyone in any way? Personally, I think there isn't. But I'll make a note of this for nest time. Spud (talk) 05:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If you ask me, I think it can be archived. GC didn't ask for any punishment for Hastur, so it's all fine. 05:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm good, personally. I just felt that removal of talk page material needed to be addressed, lest we keep wheel warring into infinity.--Hastur! (talk)  06:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * All tight then/ No action required. Spud (talk) 06:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes I am late to the party. I've been traveling the last week because my job is hectic and I am tired and shitty. I see it is all sorted but thought I would let every know I am still alive and moderating. AceModerator 22:50, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion on adding pages
Just looking through the site I’ve noticed there’s some pages missing that I thought would probably already be here, one that came to mind is Magdalene Berns, more information on JK Rowling’s recent takes, etc.
 * And this is not the right page for pitching article ideas. You might be looking for RationalWiki:To do list/Suggestions instead. Spud (talk) 06:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't see the to-do page, how do I add a suggestion? --START THE WITCH (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Add your suggestion to the top of the Recent section. Follow the instructions and follow the same format as all the other entries. If you make a mess of it, I'll try to clean it up for you. Spud (talk) 12:41, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Re: Kiko
So the user asked for my attention regarding. This happened on Kiko's talk page and on my talk page. Kiko openly alleges to be vandalizing this wiki whilst logged out. ¨

On my talk page:

On Kiko's talk page:

Not sure what to make of it, but I let the mods decide, I guess. 14:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * They have a long history of trolling Wikipedia. Also TiL DuceMooselini is not a moderator?  Weird.  Coulda sworn he was--Hastur! (talk)  14:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What they do or did on Wikipedia is not part of this. 14:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * He actually admitted doing this offline over here aswell: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Kiko4564#hey Gunther1987 (talk) 14:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I would say that it ought to be taken into consideration. Not only is this individual a known troublemaker, he has also brought his antics over to RationalWiki--Hastur! (talk)  14:43, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Kiko should be permabanned for vandalism. Bongolian (talk) 20:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no doubt, Kiko is a vandal: permabanned. Bongolian (talk) 01:24, 21 August 2020 (UTC)