RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive175

Is it just me, or has r/atheism become a cesspool?
Seriously, this is why religious people think we are jerks. If we can't accept other cultural customs, how can we expect others to tolerate secular ways of life? While I agree with sentiments regarding creationism, attacks on eating customs are just xenophobic. Many of the top commenters there are calling for a deportation of all Muslim immigrants from Europe. Sometimes, radical atheists are indistinguishable from the Christian right wing. Mr. Anon (talk) 04:59, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it is September. Seriously though, what's new? Doesn't r/atheism have a poor reputation as it is? Peter Subsisting on honey 05:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does. I unsubscribed.  It is essentially just an endless extension of Maher's Religulous, only more boring.--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 08:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never er, read it, I couldn't imagine what possible useful content would fit there. Is there a reddit for people who don't think Queen is the best rock band ever? A reddit for people who don't like Arrested Development? One for people who don't wear hats? It just seemed like by definition such a reddit had "For teenagers to rant about stuff" figuratively on a bronze plaque on the door. Seriously, what? 82.69.171.94 (talk) 08:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's actually one of the default subreddits and one of the largest.
 * HAY I THINK THAT GOD IS SILLY
 * OH HAY I AGREE
 * WE ARE SO CLEVER
 * Repeat, ad nauseum.--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 09:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And that's any different in any other online Atheism group? --Revolverman (talk) 09:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Including us. Bad Faith (talk) 09:33, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, we run on Mediawiki. Peter Subsisting on honey 09:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * RW isn't really an atheism group, it's really a skepticism and liberalism site. We attract a considerably more refined breed of total asshole. Scarlet A.pngpathetic silverbrain.png 10:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Is there any part of reddit in general that isn't a cesspool? Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 11:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * /r/sex is consistently high-quality sex discussion on an adult level. Pretty useless if you aren't talking about sex, but it's good for what it does.--Chbarts (talk) 03:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, r/gameofthrones is okay! Of course, it's completely frivolous. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 11:55, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "beachmode: Dust off the cattle cars, your continent needs another holocaust, but for muslims."
 * Oh, please be a troll... --TheLateGatsby (talk) 11:49, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, there have been many reaction posts to the original "Islam is not a religion like any other, here's why" that basically decry the opinions of the original poster. Similarly, a little racist magnetism has occurred, drawing the Stormfront/anti-immigration idiots to r/atheism. I remarked on at least one of those posts that there's a clear misunderstanding of the concept that Muslim != Arab != Persian != Malaysian != Pakistani != Muhammad Ali != John Walker Lindh.

Also, if you're going to judge an entire subreddit by the views of a few extremist cranks...well...that's kind of the same as doing what they did, in a way, doncha think? -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. Islam has billions of adherents, and assuming a religion that includes 23% of the world's population only includes the most reprehensible 23% of humanity is foolish in the extreme.  Then there's r/atheism, which is comprised of a tiny, tiny segment of the global population, that's mostly white, mostly male, and mostly young.  Combine that with the stunning amount of cross-pollination between r/atheism, r/mensrights, and the dozens of (mercifully now closed) child porn subreddits, and, yes, r/atheism really did become a cesspool.   23:41, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm certain you'd find a much higher correlation of MRA and other idiots belonging to many of the other subreddits. Including the feminist ones (hell, they control one of the main two...).  It just so happens you're talking about one of the most popular subreddits in general; there's bound to be "cross-pollination" from all areas.  In any case, I don't really understand all the constant talk about how bad /r/atheism is.  Reddit is pretty much a wasteland of image macros, where most insightful posts are glossed over in favor of reactionary opinions and fast laughs.  Why expect more from any of the subreddits?  Q0 (talk) 08:20, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's because r/atheism is the "official" face of atheism on a very popular site, yet mostly presents the worst of atheism on the internet. It's not that the rest of Reddit isn't also a cesspool, it's that atheists focus particularly on r/atheism because it's embarrassing to atheists.   08:57, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

What is shit?
1) HTC 2) The HTC Wildfire 3) Android I have an HTC Wildfire, and it is shit. It is really slow and unresponsive, apps are unstable, opens random messages rather than the one you choose, and has even sent messages to the wrong person. I'm out of contract so am looking for a new phone, I like to go against the crowd so am not too keen on an iPhone, but should I be put off all HTCs, or even all Android phones? What is a man to do? User:DeltaStarUser_talk:DeltaStar 13:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Depends what your budget is. I'm on a lowly Motorola Defy, but once I stripped their version of Android off and installed the Cyanogen Mod 7 version of Gingerbread I haven't had any problems with it.  And that might be the solution to your problems actually.  Have a look around the interwebs and see if the Wildfire issues are solved when something like the Cyanogen Mod is installed instead of the shipped Android system.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 14:09, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And when in doubt, El Reg's ten iPhone 5 alternatives.--X-Wing-icon.png Jabba de Chops 14:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Android is an excellent OS, Jabba suggestion to use Cyanogen is good. Hardware really matters, some phones just don't seem to have Android optimized for their specs. C6541 (T↔C)  15:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Wildfire is pretty slow. Wildfire S is better but still right at the bottom of the performance pile. HTC are good generally though. I'm on my third now, the One S, having had the Desire S and the Hero before. They are well built. I don't personally like rooting them as that effects the resale value and HTC's Sense interface is actually pretty good. But I know several people who have with no problems and like the cleanliness with just pure Android. Ajkgordon (talk) 17:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Samsung Galaxy SIII. Also "going against the crowd", is in some ways a crowd informed behaviour as well. Sen (talk) 01:28, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies. I realise that the Wildfire is a bottom-of-the-range model, and thus just not powerful enough to be a decent smartphone.  I reckon I'll go for an HTC One X, I've seen free handsets on 18 month contracts at £36 a month, I think that's reasonably reasonable... User:DeltaStarUser_talk:DeltaStar 08:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * £26 per month on 24m from Carphone Warehouse on T-Mobile. Even less for the One S which I think is a better all-round phone. Ajkgordon (talk) 17:27, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks to inheriting someone else's free upgrade, I landed a Galaxy Ace for nothing. Sends calls, receives calls, does the job nicely. Android's a bit bloated with all the crap Google loads onto it (why do I need to blow nearly 10% of the system capacity on Google Books? It's a fucking phone.), but when I can be arsed I'll just root it and delete it all. Scarlet A.pngtheist silverbrain.png 10:48, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Tehmizzus has a Wildfire, and yes, it's shit. Please don't think all android phones are like that. Crundy Talk nerdy to me 10:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me tell you how bad Android is: I can't see the letters "F.C." anymore without thinking "force close."  In my darkest nightmares, I see only the boot animation, followed by "force close force close force close force close force close force close," and I scream as I realize my phone's been corrupted, none of my Nandroid backups are taking, I haven't backed up my apps in nearly a week, and I'm miles from the closest PC with Odin on it.  I dream of an Android where the screen doesn't periodically freeze.   07:32, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Poor old Ray Comfort
You could almost feel sorry for him if you didn't know what a dishonest git he is. I just listened to his "debate" with Aron Ra (which you can listen to here.) Now that's the right way to deal with Ray. Don't give him an inch with his canned spiel, and keep correcting him when he lies. Well done, that man. If you haven't heard it, it's quite entertaining. -- 19:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 20:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ray Comfort is the real life Ken DeMyer of the creationist movement. No matter how hard he tries, he still looks like an idiot in the end. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 17:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I used to pity Ray Comfort too, but then I spent some time commenting on his blog and got into a few... well, not "discussions", but more like I'd point something out and then he'd write something along the lines of "someone said this and this is my reply" things. Anyway, what I learned is that Ray Comfort isn't just some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about; he knows damn well that he's wrong and he just does not give a fuck. He's out to make a point and he will actively lie and deceive to do it. X Stickman (talk) 17:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

One thing I have learned from Lenski...
Apparently Google have now started implementing the context-sensitive searches. So typing in "lenski" gives you the autocomplete with "- Richard Lenski, biologist" and "- Gerhard Lenski, sociologist" after the suggestions as additional context information to the usual auto-complete suggestions. Not sure how long that's been there. postate 23:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I still pine for the days I could turn auto-complete off Google search. Also, these damn kids need to get off my lawn; do they know how much water I had to use this summer to keep it healthy?! --CoyoteSans (talk) 04:04, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Romney
So, I'm looking at the news and the 47% thing is up atm, this thing about the Palestinians, and other such stuff from his campaign and...good lord what happened to the days when he was "the best available reublican" -- Mikal  Harass  Follow 22:06, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * He still is by a country mile. Could you imagine the shit Santorm would be saying after the embassy attacks? --Revolverman (talk) 22:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * He really hasn't quite mastered the art of the dog whistle, has he? I can't wait for his speech about how black people are lazy, and how poor people ought to be happy working scrip because they're supporting wealth producers. -- 22:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's Tim Pawlenty's fault for blowing all of his money on a straw poll, early on, rather than doing a McCain slog to victory. Jon Huntsman also would have been better, but he was never really in it this year (he has been gunning for 2016, and he has a good shot).--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 22:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is devastating. It explodes two myths: (1) that Romney and Ryan are not on the same song sheet on budget matters, and (2) that Romney is a pragmatic moderate and not a conservative ideologue. Incidentally, we debated the shit out of the same sources on the 47% Romney used nearly a year ago. As Biden said, Republicans are no longer playing hide-the-football. They say exactly what they mean. nobsCorporations are people, too 22:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Nobbykins. It just reinforces the impression that Romney will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear. This is not what he's saying in public, in fact he explicitly said he can't say this shit in public. It's just pandering to crazy arseholes like you. I'm sure you'll vote for him anyway, despite him revealing to you exactly how dishonest he is. -- 23:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and it was Obama that ran the Straight Talk Express and promised unemployment would never rise above 8%. I nearly forgot. nobsCorporations are people, too 23:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think you did. McCain's bus was the "Straight Talk Express," not Obama's.  Unless I am much mistaken?--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 23:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, McCain was aboard the Straight Talk Express, and of course Obama never said that. Then again, Rob's fantasies and reality have never been properly introduced. -- 00:05, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The "Romney tells people what they wanna hear" response is just amateurish drivel. In the 2008 Presidential Debates, how did Obama answer McCain's question on individual fines for failure to buy healthcare insurance? McCain asked if it would $500, now we know it will be $900, per person, beginning the first year, indexed for inflation like the income tax and government employee pay increases. And this fine is a tax increase aimed directly at those among the 47% who now pay no taxes, including, the homeless, the unemployed, the downtrodden, the destitute, and disposssessed. nobsCorporations are people, too 02:31, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Further embarrassing Rob is the fact that the poor get a waiver.--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 05:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought that it was the rich who pay no taxes in the US - or is that simply the objective?--Weirdstuff (talk) 05:55, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Even the BBC got to this 47% thing, Obama chides Romney on Letterman over secret tape remarks. Proxima Centauri (talk) 06:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * According to CNN, the tax will be "waived for people with very low incomes who don't have to file a tax return, members of certain religious groups, or people who face insurance premiums that would exceed 8% of family income even after including employer contributions and federal subsidies." Net result, the 47% dependent on the federal tit may become a majority. Hell, the former Soviet Union probably doesn't have half the population dependent on gubmint anymore. nobsCorporations are people, too 23:08, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Rob, are you illiterate? Not paying income taxes is not the same as being dependent on the government. That is sort of like saying that because you don't have enough money to help split the bill you're getting a whole meal for free. In case you are terminally reading-impaired, a vast majority of the much-babywailed-about 47 percent includes students (who are not dependent on the government, are often either dependent on parents or are working their way through school), the working poor (who would probably knock the teeth out of your fat face for insinuating that they're able to depend on anyone other than themselves and their multiple low-wage jobs), soldiers (who ARE dependent on the government... while they're fighting your wars!) and the elderly (and if you are seriously saying that retirees should work themselves into the grave, your moral compass is seriously damaged!). Just go get a color-by-pictures book and sit with the other giant man-toddlers and save us your inability to read things that have been linked multiple times. ±[[File:knightoftldrsig.png]]KnightOfTL;DR critical thinking is the key to success! 23:58, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No one is making the argument retirees or military, many of which presumably are included in the 47% figure, are deadbeats. The students you cite for the most part are attending state funded institutions with Pell Grants and student loans. The low wage earners pay jack-diddly-shit, receive some sort of benefits (Food stamps, Section 8 housing, Fannie Mae backed mortgages, etc etc.) then complain about "fairness", that although they pay nothing, the 24% who pay 90% of all taxes aren't paying enough. This is pure bullshit, and this is the main issue in this years election. nobsCorporations are people, too 00:51, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody has the intention to erect a wall. — Walter Ulbricht, two months before ordering the erection of the Berlin Wall. Excuse me Rob while I take priority in the opinions people tell me, not in what they say they won't do. --K. (talk) 10:56, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you understand that low wage earners have no money, because their jobs do not pay enough? Jobs working at major corporations, in fact, do not pay a living minium wage - cause people like mittens need more profit? Rob, do you get that "trickle down" has NEVER ONCE trickled?  People who have profits, like them, and keep them.  We have, today and over the last 8 years RECORD HIGH PROFITS for corporations.  yet they continue to cut staff, lower pay, lower beneifits, and outsource.   Do you not see that Mitten's own behaviors create the need for the "working poor" (and those not working, by the way) to get assistance?[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]Godot Be informed.  Vote.  13:03, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A profit-taker has only one of three choices how dispose of his/her profits: (1) consumer spending; (2) reinvestment to create more jobs and employ more people; or (3) stuff it in a mattress. Is there a fourth option? nobsCorporations are people, too 19:45, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The Cayman Islands, but you Republican tapeworms don't like to mention them for some reason. Sophie  Wilder  19:53, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What is the value of assets in the Cayman Islands? yields this: £13 trillion ($21 trillion) of wealth offshore – as much as the American and Japanese GDPs Hmmm, interesting; that may answer the question how the Federal Reserve made $9 trillion in loans with only $2.8 trillion in assets showing on the books. nobsCorporations are people, too 21:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added the 47% stuff to the article. Americans can do better than I can. Also I reread the article and a lot of material there was relevant last spring but may be out of date now. I suspect the article needs pruning but I'm not American and I don't know what to prune. Proxima Centauri (talk) 07:09, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Diesel nails it. --K. (talk) 06:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Freaky Coincidence
So, for those that remember this conversation, I never did find out the names of the books, or even the author, until tonight, when I was trawling through the books behind the settee with a vague recollection that there were two books of a trilogy that dealt with mages' towers and teleportation, but wasn't sure which ones they were although I had an inkling they might be the Melanie Rawn ones, so decided to google exactly that. And lo-and-behold, the first results that popped up were the Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies, which were the damned series that I had been desperately trying to remember nearly this time last year. Weird.-- Jabba de Chops 18:46, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's all stored away in the grey matter. I once couldn't find a book, no matter how much i searched. then, months later, as I lay in bed, the exact location popped into my consciousness. I went there and lo! there it was. Memory plays by its own rules. Sophie  Wilder  19:19, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't really forget, you just forget how to remember. Генгис silverbrain.png 20:04, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Pig saves goat
The perfect reason for RationalWiki to go vegetarian. Osaka Sun (talk) 21:29, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What, no more goat pilaf or trilobites in aspic? Sophie  Wilder  21:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Astronomy photographer of the year
If this has already been posted then I apologise but not much because it is, in the truest and most literal sense of the word, awesome! Innocent Bystander (talk) 14:17, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I concur. Ajkgordon (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh well, better luck next year. AJKG, wasn't it you that proposed to take some pics from the Pyrenees? Генгис silverbrain.png 16:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! Massive fail. Ajkgordon (talk) 16:37, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Totally photoshopped. Scarlet A.pngd hominem silverbrain.png 17:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Did we miss this?
Listening to The Last Word - a Radio 4 obituary programme - I see that British-born designer Bill Moggridge recently died. Evidently he designed the first lap-top computer, the GRiD Compass. Генгис 16:12, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A conservative history of the United States
This would actually make a good supplement to Andy's 'American History' lessons. Acei9 03:59, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Look at this: Andy has Grover Cleveland, the only Democratic President between the Civil War & World War I, author of the Civil Service Act where bureaucrats suck the government tit with automatic pay raises and are impossible to fire, in the Conservative Hall of Fame. nobsCorporations are people, too 20:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Quite the find, Ace! --TheLateGatsby (talk) 22:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Please. Grover Cleveland was the only Democratic President s between the Civil War and Big Mistake I.


 * Thinking aloud, current usage of "conservative", in US politics, has drifted rather far from Edmund Burke. "Reactionary" sometimes fits the more recent styles.  Would the Citizendium article, http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Restructuring_of_the_U.S._political_right form the basis of a RW article?  I wrote most of it and would want to rewrite a good deal. For that matter, I could well see improving http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Restructuring_of_the_U.S._political_left
 * Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 14:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Did the big flip between which party was traditionally Left and which was traditionally Right also not happen in this alternative history? Scarlet A.pngpathetic silverbrain.png 15:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No. The Democratic Party has always been the party of low-life rabble rousers (Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion while GOP has been the party of personal responsibility and dignity of the individual. nobsCorporations are people, too 04:17, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Personal responsibility and dignity of the individual unless you're a woman, that is. Sophie  Wilder  18:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Is this a thing?
Google returns 6,990,000 results for "Lego motherfucker". What the hell's that? I suddenly feel very out of touch.--Spud (talk) 16:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Samuel L. Jackson playing with Lego? Scarlet A.pngpathetic silverbrain.png 16:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind that in actual quotes it's only <400 results. You've found 7 million pages where people like Lego, but also swear on occasion. Scarlet A.pnggnostic silverbrain.png 16:45, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course. "Spud sex machine" returned 1,300,000 results. Still, 400 results suggests that it's a bit of a thing, not a major thing but still something that means something to the kids.--Spud (talk) 16:52, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I once made a Spud Sex Machine - you take a potato, cut a hole through the middle and... oh, you didn't mean that sort. Innocent Bystander (talk) 13:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Romney: You should be able to open airplane windows
"I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 18:09, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Who can't wait for the debate? Osaka Sun (talk) 18:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Coverage from a slightly more reliable source, for verification. I'm always skeptical of these sorts of things when only the leftie sights mention it (just as I am when the fundies attack Obama). Colbert should have fun with this. DickTurpis (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * *wipes tears from eyes* Why, what do you think will happen at the debate? Being ignorant about science doesn't make someone inept at political debates reciting talking points.--ZooGuard (talk) 18:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. Writing doesn't convey tone. Was he joking?--ZooGuard (talk) 18:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Given the context of the rest of his lines "she was choking, it was a real problem" I have to say, no, he was serious. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font color="Blue">Godot Be informed. Vote.  18:30, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It would be quite a good idea if all passengers were armed as well as they could then take down any potential hijackers. I'm sure that everyone - small children included - could be trusted to act responsibly.--Weirdstuff (talk) 18:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC) A note of caution is indicated here: Even if Romney shows scientific ignorance at the debates, that won't necessarily go against him. Bush 2 and Reagan were both profoundly ignorant, yet they both won. Most Americans don't care about science all that much. If Romney fails, it'll be on his character and policies, assuming he lets us see his policies. Sophie  Wilder  18:45, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm so not worried about the presidential election. Rom's has alienated everyone. I'm worried about House and Senate.  As I've said, President is relatively weak in areas we all care about - LAWS.  add a repulican senate and watch things you care about (even if they are not perfect) like obama care, DADT repeal, bank reform (little as it was), patriot act reform (even smaller as it was) all go out the window.  --[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  18:50, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It'll be a teachable moment in the debates: Obama starts his drivel on greed and hate, taxing the rich and Romney's taxes; Romney turns to that putz as, "Son, I gave more than 10 times to charity than you earned last year. I gave more to charity than you've earned in your life. When you start earning as much as I give in charity, then you can lecture us on morality". nobsCorporations are people, too 12:37, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And then Bill Gates steps in and bitch-slaps Romney, saying "Fuck you, guttersnipe, I'm President now!" Because we all know the most important thing when electing a president is how much money they gave to some batshit crazy cult. Actually, I'd love to see Romney say just that; it would really make him seem like a man of the people: "If you don't earn 3 million dollars a year or more you don't get to have opinions on anything." Instead of writing off 47% of the population, he could write of 99.9%. DickTurpis (talk) 12:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Rob, remember Mark. 12:41-44?Th. BernhardDas Leben ist ein Prozeß, den man verliert, was man auch tut und wer man auch ist. 12:47, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but Mormonism fundamentally is a gospel of works, not of grace. So while from a orthodox christian perspective blowing a trump is in error, Romney doing it is in keeping with his faith. And it's not only politically incorrect to attack someone because of their faith, it can also now be considered a hate crime or terrorism. nobsCorporations are people, too 15:09, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whatever sort of religion Mormonism is, for a guy to say "hey would should put me in charge, I'm great with money!" while giving 10% of his income to the fucking Mormon church is retarded. He might as well say "I'm great with money, I blew half a million at Vegas last week." And what's with conservatives not being able to understand the concept of a hate crime? Are all of you really that stupid (I know you're mental facilities aren't up to snuff, but is that true of all your peers too)? For something to be a hate crime, it first of all has to be a crime. Unless you're talking about a physical attack (which is irrelevant to this discussion so I assume you're not, though you are Rob "Non-sequitur King" Smith) attacking someone for their religion is perfectly legal. Let's give it a try, shall we? Rob, the stupid religion you believe in is a load of shit. Jesus was a fraud and St. Paul was a cocksucking shitbag. No go cry to your mom about what a vicious hate crime has been committed against you by some internet terrorist. DickTurpis (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Graffiti is classified as a hate crime. It would be interesting to see graffiti transferred from a bathroom wall verbatim to an internet discussion forum litigated as a hate crime. As to a candidates personal affairs, let's flip it around. Romney could say he paid nearly 10 times in taxes than Obama earned as president. All Romney was trying to do was provide for his family, contribute to his church, community, and charities, and employ a few people along the way. OTH, Obama appears to have been overpaid for services rendered. nobsCorporations are people, too 19:45, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jesus Fucking Christ, Rob, we all know intelligence isn't your strong suit, you don't have to keep trying to prove it to us. Why can you not understand what a hate crime is? Graffiti can be a hate crime because graffiti is a crime. Like so many other things, you conservatives have it backwards. "Crime" is not a thing you tack on to something hateful you don't like, the "hate" part is something that can modify a crime, when it's committed against a group. Spray painting "TJ rockz da house" on a random building is a crime - a crime against the building owner. Spray painting a swastika and "Hitler rules!" on a Synagogue is a hate crime, a crime against the Synagogue and Jews in general. Saying "Hitler rules" is not a crime, therefore it cannot by definition be a hate crime. When fundies ask why people making Christianity isn't considered a hate crime, they're again showing just how stupid they are. Learn a thing or two. DickTurpis (talk) 22:16, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me get this straight: spray painting, "Fags must die" outside a gay bath house is a hate crime, whereas writing "Fags must die" on the bathroom wall at the bus station is simple vandalism, and posting the same in an internet discussion is free speech, is that correct? (Also, what time do you start drinking in the morning? that could ruin your health, ya know, as well as increase my mandated insurance premiums.) nobsCorporations are people, too 23:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, admittedly whether a prosecutor decides to pursue hate crime charges will depend on numerous factors. I guess writing on a bathroom wall could technically yield hate crime charges, but most people pay little attention to scribblings on bathroom walls, and I'd guess the number of vandalism charges of any sort brought for such graffiti is minimal, though it is technically a crime. And yes, saying "fags must die" is protected speech, though if you post it on the internet the site in question will likely take it down, as they have no obligation to allow such things on their dime. But unless you can make the argument that it is a viable threat, or an incitement to riot, you cannot be prosecuted for it. Didn't you know that? Admittedly, my experience in the field of law is a couple community college classes and a weekend studying for the LSATs (which I never took), but we have some lawyer types here who should be able to give a more definitive answer. Oh, and I usually don't drink much before noon, though on occasion I'll have a glass of wine with lunch, perhaps as early as a little past 11. There have been times on vacation where I started drinking pretty early, usually with a bloody mary, which is one of the few drinks allowed in the AM. Those are very rare. DickTurpis (talk) 18:12, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Rob, it would make more sense if you changed your handle to totalbs. Only you could take a thread about Mitt Romney's clueless tin-eared dumbassery and try to twist it towards gay bath houses, and your insurance rates. Have the decency to STFU. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 23:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I know, it's just that people are getting all excited that Rmoney will crash and burn because he said a dumb thing in a moment of stress. Shit, now i'm defending him! Aaargh! Sophie  Wilder  18:58, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The air pressure inside is high, the air pressure outside is low, you can't explain that! -- Seth Peck (talk) 19:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! It's like the tides!--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

In a previous century, I spent a few hundred hours as pilot in command of various rented aircraft, piston-powered Cessnas and Pipers. I enjoyed my ninety-knot sightseeing better in the high-wing Cessnas. One of their advantages is the way the windows open, and may be left open at any sensible cruising speed. 'Tis a fine thing on a hot day to be able to stick your elbow out into the slipstream. At the altitudes I kept, I never had to deal with a hypoxic passenger, although there was this one time I had to unclip the barf bag from my knee board and pass it to the kid in the right hand seat.

A couple of times when the radio went on the fritz coming into a controlled field, I got to see the clear steady green light from the biscuit gun they keep in the tower. Counting only the times when all parties were clothed, it is one of the more welcoming sights I can now recall. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 20:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've found another source, Mitt Romney wants airplane windows to roll down in case of fire so people can breathe more easily. This one's also entertaining. Proxima Centauri (talk) 20:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hypoxia is serious business. As a former resident of Utah, where the mountains are all the right height (up to about 13,000 feet) Mr. Romney may have been exposed to this idea.


 * Mountain sickness will kick your ass, even at altitudes well below the flight levels of passenger jets. I had the opportunity to witness this on Pike's Peak (a tad above 14,000 ft, or 4300 m) in a double-blind drug trial that lasted two weeks. We were sent up in two cohorts, and were advised to take it easy the first day. The first bunch felt fine, and spent the afternoon tossing a frisbee around, against medical advice. When we came up the next day, they were lying in their bunks doing nothing, not even moaning. They did eventually get back on their feet again. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 20:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


 * One recent treatment for mountain sickness, off-label but medically recognized, is sildenafil -- brand name Viagra. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This story is lighting up the liberal feeds on Facebook, with special attention to the "It’s a real problem" comment...yes, a real problem, much like Armageddon, voter fraud, Iran's military might, taxes too high for millionaires and Obama's birth certificate. -- Seth Peck (talk) 22:55, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Campaigns are like big commercials, and campaign time is when everyone tries to target demographics and put on presentation. But gaffes like this are great perspectives into the fact that candidates are real people, and their actual attitudes, worldviews, and general world knowledge vary just like every other normal person in the world. Too often I hear about Mitt the Heartless Corporate Swine or Mitt the FlipFlopper... but now we hear about Mitt Doesn't Know How Airplanes Work, which to me is just as valuable a perspective into what sort of person he is than the sight of his 'best' foot forward. <font face="MS Sans Serif" size="3">±[[File:knightoftldrsig.png]]KnightOfTL;DR yeah, well you fight like a cow! 23:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * gaffes like this are great perspectives [on] their actual attitudes, worldviews, and general world knowledge... Amen to that. Recall candidate Obama's reaction to Russia during the Abkhazia crisis in 2008, "United States should call for a meeting of the United Nations Security Council to condemn Russia's decision", knowing full well Russia has a veto on the Security Council and would veto a Resolution to condemn itself. Now we see the same ignorance in the Syrian crisis.  nobsCorporations are people, too 12:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's Gospel time this morning, have a look at Matthew 7:3~5. Says something about tu quoque, false equivalence, and not being a dick.
 * Regarding taking Russia to the coop, are you too thick to see that all the vetos in the world do not stifle the air time, the bad press it would have given them? They could pound their shoes on the desk all they like, shouting "Не постовчй хуй в чай!" and that bell would still be ringing, not to be unrung. Also something something price of fish. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:27, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, the 2008 response on Abkhazia probably has something to do with saying whatever people want to hear, in addition to a lack of understanding how the world works. Let's assume momentarily Obama knew his suggestion was as useful as a condom with a hole it, it says more about pandering to isolationist tendencies -- and makes him as inspirational a visionary as Ron Paul. nobsCorporations are people, too 14:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Snopes is covering this now, and they have a link to a video of him saying it. I have to admit, it sounds like he's joking. DickTurpis (talk) 13:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the skills Dunning and Kruger investigated was humor. Unfunny and unaware, now who could that be? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Stupid anti tax idiots
I am legally obligated to add anyone's views on our Ballot Question, if it's a Tax question. I have to add the line "Taxpayers are weary of the continued request by governments to increase their taxes and debt. At this time of economic chaos, tax payers believe governments must learn to live within their “means” just as taxpayer families must.  Vote NO on request to increase debt and taxes." which has apparently been spammed across the state to EVERY SINGLE TAX QUESTION. sighs... idiots. Don't bother actually reading each tax question and seeing if it might be useful tax or not, just generically hate all taxes cause you know, who needs roads, clean water, or better schools.--<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 18:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)  Normal  0          false  false  false    EN-US  X-NONE  X-NONE                                 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
 * Worried about a tax increase? Ask for a pay rise to compensate. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 19:02, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Amen. oh wait, your repblican LORDS don't want to give up their profits. I'm just sorta frustrated you can write such a blanket statement, and spam it to all taxing questions in the state.  sighs...  45 more days! or something. [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  20:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yah know, this is one of the biggest misconceptions in American politics, the use of the term, "taxpayer". While individuals pay the transfer payments like Social Security and Medicare, these are not the operating costs of the US government. The bulk of day to day operating costs are borne by corporations, which are taxpayers. nobsCorporations are people, too 04:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know what country you live in, but since 1970 the amount of taxes born by corporations has continued to decline, to the point where corporations are well below 10% of the taxes paid by the US. In fact in 2009, corporations made up 6% of the US govt revenue.  and roughly 10% of most state revenue.  --[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  04:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC) so are you lying? or just an idiot?--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  04:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you're missing the point. Individual income taxes and payroll taxes, using your chart amount to 82% of revenues. This pays for income transfer programs, social programs like health & education, and some defense. The general operations of government, like civil service, Congress, White House, Supreme Court, State Department, etc., and interest on the debt, are paid by the corporate tax. This is rightly so, and fitting. The idiot voters demand all these income transfer programs and social spending (like Fannie Mae subsidized interest rates for middle class earners) and deficits to pay for them, so let individuals pay for that crap. The "legitimate" operations of government, the day to day costs of staffing and making sure these institutions will be there with their doors open, is borne by the corporate tax, the same taxpayers who are there everyday providing society with the necessities and luxuries of life, and employ everybody (making it possible for individual earners to pay for all the extra crap they demand of government). nobsCorporations are people, too 05:33, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh WfG, what a wag you are with your rhetorical questions. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What's a wag? I found this - "A selection of overpublicised, vacuous anorexics found lurking at football matches, easily distinguised by their orange skin tone and high body plastic index, ostensibly present for the purpose of pleasuring the England football team, but in reality with the intention of being photographed obtaining fashion advice from chief WAG Mrs. Beckham in the hope that this will lead to a future  appearance on "celebrity love island"." (urban dictoionary).  Hum... anorexic.  hum...  [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  13:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Different wag. You're referring to WAG, standing for Wife Or Girlfriend (of footballer originally). Wag means joker in this context. Ajkgordon (talk) 14:25, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ooh, careful. Wives And Girlfriends as they were originally referred to as a group. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 14:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, yes, quite right. And. Bollocks. Where's my pointy hood? Ajkgordon (talk) 15:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't we already talk about this? -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:50, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * When trying to understand an unfamiliar word it's usually best to try wiktionary before resorting to Urban dictionary. Or you could, you know, buy one of those old-fashioned books from before everything was crowd-sourced and volunteer edited. Also, case matters in English, a WAG and a wag are as different as a PIN and a pin, or as ACID and acid. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 16:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Dear BON, it was a fricking joke. I really didn't think Ghingis was calling me a overpublised.  sighs....  humor.  does.  not.  belong. on. the. intertubes.[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot 44 days and counting - Be informed.  Vote.  16:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I notice you didn't deny being orange and anorexic though. Ajkgordon (talk) 09:41, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * From what WfG has posted previously, I don't think anorexia is one of her characteristics. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 10:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * So you're calling her orange? How rude. Ajkgordon (talk) 10:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I know nothing of her Ulster heritage and so couldn't possibly comment. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 11:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I heard she wears a bowler hat. Ajkgordon (talk) 11:48, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Why Evolution Is True
Well, I LOLled at Boudry's hoax. Sophisticated Theology, my arse. <font color=Blue>Генгис 13:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, that reminds me to take sophisticated theology live - David Gerard (talk) 14:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * So... Dawkinism IS true after all, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Look what I found...

 * Not quite sure what to say...except...I would want B's or better.--Dumpling (talk) 17:54, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think "C"s refer to grades. -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ....LeGasp. O___O Well that takes it to a whole new level of LAME....--Dumpling (talk) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah! That's what the "C" was about!--Weirdstuff (talk) 18:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Email the guy and offer to sell him a realdoll. I think that fits his requirements nicely. -- 20:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it just might be photoshopped. Are people actually like this in real life?Percival (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is Louisiana, nothing more need be said. Тy Bother me 22:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

'6 figure starting salary'... god, he's either delusional and will be unpleasently surprised once he hits the job market, or I just studied at the wrong faculty for the last 7 years...Th. BernhardDas Leben ist ein Prozeß, den man verliert, was man auch tut und wer man auch ist. 21:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In Baton Rouge? -- Seth Peck (talk) 22:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. I took this photo from my phone,. Anyways, this personal ad came from the LSU campus newspaper. :/--Dumpling (talk) 05:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It could be a joke or an experiment, people have been known to do that with personals. If it was genuine and he had an inkling of intelligence, he'd know that the type of woman he's seeking isn't the type of woman who needs to resort to scouring the personals in some paper. ONE / TALK 08:51, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Easy enough to test. Dumpling could get a throw-away email address and respond to it.--Weirdstuff (talk) 12:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You could always email in and say how well you fit all the requirements... except I used to be a man. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>moral silverbrain.png 13:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Steve Wozniack
Sitting in a convention centre with 2600 other people, about to listen to Steve Wozniack speak about the future of tech. Acei9 22:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Pardon my cynicism, but I really don't see the point in talks like that. The "future of tech" will be crafted by people and ideas no one has heard of yet.  Unless he's talking about the near-future (like, a decade from now), in which case he can just point to the R&D departments of Intel, IBM, ARM, and Apple and be done with it.   00:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Even 10 years is optimistic... in 2007 (a mere five years ago) everyone was on Myspace, no-one had even heard of Facebook and Twitter barely existed. A Blackberry was the coolest phone you could own, tablets were for headaches and many TV shows were still being made in 4:3 standard def. And certainly no-one alerted Rupert that Myspace was going to die so quickly - it could have saved him $500 mill. VOX  HUMANA  01:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * it was shit anyway. Acei9 01:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ace need's to listen to this guy, he's more of a roll model for the future with Ace's business acumen. nobsCorporations are people, too 06:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Tesla and Oatmeal
Didn't see this mentioned before, so here it is. A worthy cause IMO. VOX HUMANA  00:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The Oatmeal - Help me raise money to buy Nikoli Tesla's old laboratory
 * Indiegogo - Operation: Let's Build a Goddamn Tesla Museum
 * The Oatmeal - we just passed One million dollars - now what?
 * The Oatmeal - What's going on with the Tesla Museum?

Unilaterally pull out of West bank
Israeli Defense Minister suggested it as the proper thing to do (minus some militarily important areas, the jordan border and the biggest areas of settlement) should the latest set of talks fail. Vague Yay!-- Mikal Harass  Follow 04:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

He is rather old...
When Cheney finally dies are we going to need to burn to death quails or lawyers to release his dark soul back into the Abyss of Terror from whence it came? Are there any precautions in place to make sure he stays dead? I am not sure a stake would suffice. Hollow (talk) 05:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Tim Kreider thought it did. --CoyoteSans (talk) 05:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheney is a special brand of horror. Hollow (talk) 06:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a simple matter of taking the heart they implanted in him back out. And then burning it.   06:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If I were a woman I'd wanna have Dick Cheney's baby. nobsCorporations are people, too 12:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm so pleased we keep you in a special box away from women. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>moral silverbrain.png 13:29, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Now we know what Ace did last night
Must have been one hell of an evening. -- 15:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Today I learned the word "jacksie". -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That really beats out the old gerbiling urban myth now21:35, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * successfully remove the animal, whose fate is unknown. That's precious, unembellished straightforward reporting. nobsCorporations are people, too 18:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the famous priest/potato incident. nobsCorporations are people, too 22:07, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * not me I'm afraid. I spent last night at black tie function with 2500 business professionals. And if it involved me somehow the headline would read ''new Zealand man, Ace McWicked, arrested after attacking man with a Moray Eel". Acei9 23:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Black tie event? My dear Sir, don't you realize such bourgeois attitudes are enemies of the revolution? nobsCorporations are people, too 02:13, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * what the fuck do I care? I am a capitalist, a successful one at that. Fuck the poor. Acei9 02:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with the wiki today?
Seems like it's fucked. It's been dog slow or down altogether all day, and all the extra links have disappeared from the side bar. What gives? -- 00:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Somewhat's borked, possibly serverwards. ADK mentioned that javascript and css are not living up to expectation either. Should I toast goat products on my kitchen altar? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 01:12, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wiki Fairies have fixed it. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 10:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * DoS OR DDoS? Proxima Centauri (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt you get that effect from a DDoS. Those usually just slow the site to a crawl, they don't actively damage the MW extensions like the inclusion of the vector.css file. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 10:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe a coincidence, but huge swathes of the interwebs were hit with go-slows of varying lengths yesterday. It made searches through Google Images frustrating, to say the least.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 11:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Is the Front Page broken?
Is the front page supposed to look like this, or is my browser (Chrome) messed up? JubalHarshaw (talk) 13:10, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing something like that too on Chrome. It looks fine on IE and Firefox though. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  17:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have the same thing too (on Chrome). Oddly, I also get something very similar on cracked every now and then; images don't work properly and articles don't load (that doesn't sound very similar, but it does LOOK similar when it happens). Emptying my cache usually fixes it but that gets rid of all my passwords and junk too and eff that. Eff it good. X Stickman (talk) 19:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just hit control-shift-r to refresh the page, circumventing the cache. It pretty much fixes all problems like these. -- 20:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * When it comes to being shit, Chrome is the new IE6. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>moral silverbrain.png 22:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Is anyone also seeing the WIGO logos missing?66.183.41.215 (talk) 00:30, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jeeves's fix works great, it may take more then one refresh, but keep hitting control-shift-r (or in my case ⌘-shift-r), and it will be resolved. Smedley (talk) 10:16, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Worst movie death scene ever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6Cw_3q1Pg - David Gerard (talk) 12:10, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If only Superman had been there in time! Sophie  Wilder  12:35, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you absolutely sure that isn't a comedy?  15:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that Rowan Atkinson?Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 22:20, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I submit to you this video for your perusal
I'm going to call this an "animated inforgraphic" about the history of asteroid detection.. It's fascinating and a little hypnotic. ONE / TALK 10:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Public Advocate...using a gay couple's pictures without their permission
WIGO:W or WIGO:Clog? The couple in question has filed a lawsuit...I hope they completely clean Delgaudio out.-- Seth Peck (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't wait to receive a hysterical email about this-- "Shut up, Brx." 00:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you suppose winning a lawsuit will hurt the candidate's re-election chances, on whose behalf the mailer was sent out, and who beat the incumbent in doubledigits supposedly over this issue? nobsCorporations are people, too 04:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't a clue. Most people here only follow Public Advocate because of Eugene Delgaudio's hyperbolic missives alternating between warning "true Americans" that we're standing on the edge of the precipice of gays ruling the world with a gilt iron fist and masturbatory rallying cries about how the homosexual lobby is reeling after some imaginary victory by the Christian right.  Add to that his skewed poll questions (which mostly sample his expected base) and his inability to call a bill by its actual name, and you have yourself a lifetime's supply of very entertaining emails.  The only downside is that now Michelle Bachmann's campaign keeps sending emails asking for donations.  Those emails aren't nearly as funny.-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I know what you mean; I'm gettin spammed by the Obama campaign 3-4 times a day. They got a chair reserved for me right next to Barack & Michelle at the Inauguration Ball, or some such. nobsCorporations are people, too 05:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * lol-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:14, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. People like Rob are the reason Obama is having no trouble getting re-elected after all. Vulpius (talk) 14:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * HEEYYY...Just got this e-mail: Barack, President Clinton, and Rob - airfare and hotel covered... Are these guys exempt from Truth in Advertising regulations for non-profit solicitation and fundraising? nobsCorporations are people, too 01:48, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Rob, Obama will win because he actually cares about people, and Romney has all of the charm, character and intelligence of a sea cucumber. -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Obama will win because 1: he's running a campaign that is marked by a level of competence sorely lacking in the Romney camp; and, most importantly, 2: because he didn't have to go through a primary process that was hijacked by extremists and guaranteed to produce a candidate whose only virtue is that he was the least crazy one available. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * a level of competence sorely lacking  The Obama camp & independent pundits claimed Ryan's selection changed the dynamic from a referendum on Obama's competence to a contest of ideology and vision. They were right, until Romney dropped his pants in the 47% remark. If it's back to deciding competence, there's still plenty of time. nobsCorporations are people, too 20:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The "referendum on Obama's campaign" idea was in reference to his competence as chief executive over the last 3.5 years. I'm talking about how competently the Obama electoral campaign is being run, not his competence as the actual president. Was it somehow not clear in the phrase "he's running a campaign that is marked by a level of competence" that the "competence" being referred to here is that of his campaign? Do you see that those are two distinct things? Would you like me to explain it again using smaller words? Obama campaign good. Romney campaign bad. JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I certainly do. Ironic, while responding here I'm reading about how Democrats and Congressional Oversight Committees are questioning Obama's competence in responding to a terrorist attack upon United States territory. nobsCorporations are people, too 23:40, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which concerns which candidate is running the more competent election campaign. JubalHarshaw (talk) 23:48, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jabull, don't have anything better to do than play Speech-Gestapo? nobsCorporations are people, too 04:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

New books
I have just got in and found a parcel from Amazon with some new books to read. One of them is Spell It Out: The Singular Story of English Spelling by David Crystal, and I was amused to find the following blurb on the back cover: ''An entertaining archealogical language dig. (DAILY MAIL)''. <font color=Blue>Генгис 16:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a rule about that, but for grammar nazis? "anyone complaining about spelling will inevitably make an error themselves in that post" or some such?  Does your book explain why we say lie, but liAr and not liEr.  hate english. i really do.--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait  16:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Skitt's Law -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I love English. English ROCKS! Ajkgordon (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * One dog, two dogs. One sheep, two sheep. One goose, two geese. Meat from a pig is "pork", meat from a cow is "beef", meat from a chicken is "chicken". Meat from a sheep is "mutton" whereas meat from a lamb is "lamb". English is dumb. X Stickman (talk) 19:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's cultural. It's not Esperanto. And it rocks. Ajkgordon (talk) 23:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup. Not that it would even matter if we didn't like it. It's beyond anyone's control now. The ball was rolling at least by the nineteenth century, anybody who didn't want English as a de facto lingua franca for the world needed to start fighting generations ago. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Global index of religion and atheism
From Gallup. Global index of religion and atheism Some interesting reading. Sorry if it's been posted before.--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whut, no UK?  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 21:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, UK isn't a religion. Except in UK maybe. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Eejit. Read the document. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You seem confused. Eejit is another country altogether (still not a religion though). As for the document, I'm waiting for the movie to come out. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoever made the graphic on page 13 needs shot. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 14:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that it's not the official Gallup. "Disclaimer: Gallup International Association or its members are not related to Gallup Inc., headquartered in Washington D.C which is no longer a member of Gallup International Association. Gallup International Association does not accept responsibility for opinion polling other than its own. We require that our surveys be credited fully as Gallup International (not Gallup or Gallup Poll)." <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 14:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What exactly is a "convinced atheist", anyway? I figure I'm about as much an atheist as anyone, but even I would take a second thought when asked if I was 'convinced'.  What a terrible choice of words, especially given these people are supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible.  Ha.  Q0 (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ...supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... you have a lot to learn about polling! Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 07:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The FARSide
Derailed to Forum:FARSide Sophie  Wilder  20:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

In what ways has the theory of evolution changed since Darwin?
I've briefly read about how the discovery of genes lent more explanatory power to the theory, and in reading the article on Darwinism, I noticed this passage: "the study of evolution has expanded well beyond Darwin's original works and the ideas he outlined, namely that evolution can now be described in terms of DNA" and I'm curious if anyone more versed in biology than I knows more examples of this. άλφα Ταλκ 19:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Try reading this. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 19:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Why Evolution Is True is great so far (I'm reading it right now), as is The Greatest Show On Earth. They were published around the same time and may usefully be regarded as a pair - David Gerard (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Although Darwin was a contemporary of Mendel he was unaware of his work in inheritance and he was certainly unaware of the existence of DNA. The fact that these discoveries were easily integrated into Darwin's work shows how well he had thought though his original ideas.--Weirdstuff (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC) OK, I'm not a biologist but I'm about a quarter through that book. Basically our genetic code still contains genes that we share with other animals. So for example we have similar genes for smell as dogs but evolution switched ours off so that we could devote our brain power to other things. We also know that the hippo is one of the closest relatives to the cetaceans from genetic sequencing showing that whales evolved from land animals which returned to the ocean. Occasionally these redundant genes can get turned on by accident and foetuses can develop a tail. Human foetuses also go through the steps of evolution including developing a fur coat which is usually shed before birth but is in accordance with our evolution from hairier apes.  The fact that we have redundant genes in our DNA shows that our ancestors must have had them and we are just left with the inactive detritus. If intelligent design or creationism was true then why would we have that stuff, it's not very efficient or intelligently designed but makes perfect sense from the view of evolution.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 20:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information. I knew a little of the modern study of DNA and the support it lends to evolution, but the more information the better. άλφα Ταλκ 17:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've made my way through the first few chapters of Origin and so far you'd be extremely surprised at how much he pre-empted genetics. In places it's like he's describing genetics perfectly, but simply doesn't have the language to express it in terms we recognise. When Dawkins says things about it being ahead of its time, visionary and groundbreaking, he really isn't joking or exaggerating. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 07:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Amputees
As a reasonably fit, able-bodied individual I think it must be shit to lose a limb. But, how cool is this? <font color=Blue>Генгис 12:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I bet they cost an arm and a leg. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 15:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist. Still, no arguments here. It takes bold people like this to redefine normal, which is what we as people sorely need from time to time.<font face="MS Sans Serif" size="3">±[[File:knightoftldrsig.png]]KnightOfTL;DR free guybrush threepwood! no new taxes! down with porcelain! 16:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Second one reminds me of Viktoria Modesta who, being an alt-model, has a prosthetic leg especially designed to take a 6" stiletto. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 07:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's hoping she is able to save Farida, which I wasn't able to do even using every weapon at my disposal. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Blasphemy Day
"Picard is better than Kirk" ...how is that blasphemous? Osaka Sun (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Janeway. 18:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Uh, I know that... it's from Astro Quest, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * JarJar Binks was a great character. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder Cup
Wow, what a finish! <font color=Blue>Генгис 22:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't this the biggest comeback in Cup history? --Revolverman (talk) 00:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ryder? I hardly know 'er! JubalHarshaw (talk) 01:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Fuhrman's immunity solution
This asshat is on both my local PBS stations (WGBH, WENH). Contacted both to complain and point out that if I was a subscriber, this guy would make me drop it.

Can someone please rip The Fuhrman Solution seven new orifices here? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  04:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Public Advocate...using a gay couple's pictures without their permission
WIGO:W or WIGO:Clog? The couple in question has filed a lawsuit...I hope they completely clean Delgaudio out.-- Seth Peck (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't wait to receive a hysterical email about this-- "Shut up, Brx." 00:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you suppose winning a lawsuit will hurt the candidate's re-election chances, on whose behalf the mailer was sent out, and who beat the incumbent in doubledigits supposedly over this issue? nobsCorporations are people, too 04:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't a clue. Most people here only follow Public Advocate because of Eugene Delgaudio's hyperbolic missives alternating between warning "true Americans" that we're standing on the edge of the precipice of gays ruling the world with a gilt iron fist and masturbatory rallying cries about how the homosexual lobby is reeling after some imaginary victory by the Christian right.  Add to that his skewed poll questions (which mostly sample his expected base) and his inability to call a bill by its actual name, and you have yourself a lifetime's supply of very entertaining emails.  The only downside is that now Michelle Bachmann's campaign keeps sending emails asking for donations.  Those emails aren't nearly as funny.-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I know what you mean; I'm gettin spammed by the Obama campaign 3-4 times a day. They got a chair reserved for me right next to Barack & Michelle at the Inauguration Ball, or some such. nobsCorporations are people, too 05:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * lol-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:14, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. People like Rob are the reason Obama is having no trouble getting re-elected after all. Vulpius (talk) 14:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * HEEYYY...Just got this e-mail: Barack, President Clinton, and Rob - airfare and hotel covered... Are these guys exempt from Truth in Advertising regulations for non-profit solicitation and fundraising? nobsCorporations are people, too 01:48, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Rob, Obama will win because he actually cares about people, and Romney has all of the charm, character and intelligence of a sea cucumber. -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Obama will win because 1: he's running a campaign that is marked by a level of competence sorely lacking in the Romney camp; and, most importantly, 2: because he didn't have to go through a primary process that was hijacked by extremists and guaranteed to produce a candidate whose only virtue is that he was the least crazy one available. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * a level of competence sorely lacking  The Obama camp & independent pundits claimed Ryan's selection changed the dynamic from a referendum on Obama's competence to a contest of ideology and vision. They were right, until Romney dropped his pants in the 47% remark. If it's back to deciding competence, there's still plenty of time. nobsCorporations are people, too 20:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The "referendum on Obama's campaign" idea was in reference to his competence as chief executive over the last 3.5 years. I'm talking about how competently the Obama electoral campaign is being run, not his competence as the actual president. Was it somehow not clear in the phrase "he's running a campaign that is marked by a level of competence" that the "competence" being referred to here is that of his campaign? Do you see that those are two distinct things? Would you like me to explain it again using smaller words? Obama campaign good. Romney campaign bad. JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I certainly do. Ironic, while responding here I'm reading about how Democrats and Congressional Oversight Committees are questioning Obama's competence in responding to a terrorist attack upon United States territory. nobsCorporations are people, too 23:40, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which concerns which candidate is running the more competent election campaign. JubalHarshaw (talk) 23:48, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jabull, don't have anything better to do than play Speech-Gestapo? nobsCorporations are people, too 04:34, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

New books
I have just got in and found a parcel from Amazon with some new books to read. One of them is Spell It Out: The Singular Story of English Spelling by David Crystal, and I was amused to find the following blurb on the back cover: ''An entertaining archealogical language dig. (DAILY MAIL)''. <font color=Blue>Генгис 16:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a rule about that, but for grammar nazis? "anyone complaining about spelling will inevitably make an error themselves in that post" or some such?  Does your book explain why we say lie, but liAr and not liEr.  hate english. i really do.--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait  16:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Skitt's Law -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I love English. English ROCKS! Ajkgordon (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * One dog, two dogs. One sheep, two sheep. One goose, two geese. Meat from a pig is "pork", meat from a cow is "beef", meat from a chicken is "chicken". Meat from a sheep is "mutton" whereas meat from a lamb is "lamb". English is dumb. X Stickman (talk) 19:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's cultural. It's not Esperanto. And it rocks. Ajkgordon (talk) 23:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup. Not that it would even matter if we didn't like it. It's beyond anyone's control now. The ball was rolling at least by the nineteenth century, anybody who didn't want English as a de facto lingua franca for the world needed to start fighting generations ago. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Global index of religion and atheism
From Gallup. Global index of religion and atheism Some interesting reading. Sorry if it's been posted before.--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whut, no UK?  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 21:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No, UK isn't a religion. Except in UK maybe. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Eejit. Read the document. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You seem confused. Eejit is another country altogether (still not a religion though). As for the document, I'm waiting for the movie to come out. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoever made the graphic on page 13 needs shot. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 14:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that it's not the official Gallup. "Disclaimer: Gallup International Association or its members are not related to Gallup Inc., headquartered in Washington D.C which is no longer a member of Gallup International Association. Gallup International Association does not accept responsibility for opinion polling other than its own. We require that our surveys be credited fully as Gallup International (not Gallup or Gallup Poll)." <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 14:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What exactly is a "convinced atheist", anyway? I figure I'm about as much an atheist as anyone, but even I would take a second thought when asked if I was 'convinced'.  What a terrible choice of words, especially given these people are supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible.  Ha.  Q0 (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ...supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... you have a lot to learn about polling! Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 07:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The FARSide
Derailed to Forum:FARSide Sophie  Wilder  20:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

In what ways has the theory of evolution changed since Darwin?
I've briefly read about how the discovery of genes lent more explanatory power to the theory, and in reading the article on Darwinism, I noticed this passage: "the study of evolution has expanded well beyond Darwin's original works and the ideas he outlined, namely that evolution can now be described in terms of DNA" and I'm curious if anyone more versed in biology than I knows more examples of this. άλφα Ταλκ 19:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Try reading this. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 19:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Why Evolution Is True is great so far (I'm reading it right now), as is The Greatest Show On Earth. They were published around the same time and may usefully be regarded as a pair - David Gerard (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Although Darwin was a contemporary of Mendel he was unaware of his work in inheritance and he was certainly unaware of the existence of DNA. The fact that these discoveries were easily integrated into Darwin's work shows how well he had thought though his original ideas.--Weirdstuff (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC) OK, I'm not a biologist but I'm about a quarter through that book. Basically our genetic code still contains genes that we share with other animals. So for example we have similar genes for smell as dogs but evolution switched ours off so that we could devote our brain power to other things. We also know that the hippo is one of the closest relatives to the cetaceans from genetic sequencing showing that whales evolved from land animals which returned to the ocean. Occasionally these redundant genes can get turned on by accident and foetuses can develop a tail. Human foetuses also go through the steps of evolution including developing a fur coat which is usually shed before birth but is in accordance with our evolution from hairier apes.  The fact that we have redundant genes in our DNA shows that our ancestors must have had them and we are just left with the inactive detritus. If intelligent design or creationism was true then why would we have that stuff, it's not very efficient or intelligently designed but makes perfect sense from the view of evolution.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 20:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information. I knew a little of the modern study of DNA and the support it lends to evolution, but the more information the better. άλφα Ταλκ 17:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've made my way through the first few chapters of Origin and so far you'd be extremely surprised at how much he pre-empted genetics. In places it's like he's describing genetics perfectly, but simply doesn't have the language to express it in terms we recognise. When Dawkins says things about it being ahead of its time, visionary and groundbreaking, he really isn't joking or exaggerating. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 07:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Amputees
As a reasonably fit, able-bodied individual I think it must be shit to lose a limb. But, how cool is this? <font color=Blue>Генгис 12:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I bet they cost an arm and a leg. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 15:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist. Still, no arguments here. It takes bold people like this to redefine normal, which is what we as people sorely need from time to time.<font face="MS Sans Serif" size="3">±[[File:knightoftldrsig.png]]KnightOfTL;DR free guybrush threepwood! no new taxes! down with porcelain! 16:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Second one reminds me of Viktoria Modesta who, being an alt-model, has a prosthetic leg especially designed to take a 6" stiletto. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 07:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's hoping she is able to save Farida, which I wasn't able to do even using every weapon at my disposal. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Blasphemy Day
"Picard is better than Kirk" ...how is that blasphemous? Osaka Sun (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Janeway. 18:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Uh, I know that... it's from Astro Quest, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * JarJar Binks was a great character. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder Cup
Wow, what a finish! <font color=Blue>Генгис 22:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't this the biggest comeback in Cup history? --Revolverman (talk) 00:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ryder? I hardly know 'er! JubalHarshaw (talk) 01:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Fuhrman's immunity solution
This asshat is on both my local PBS stations (WGBH, WENH). Contacted both to complain and point out that if I was a subscriber, this guy would make me drop it.

Can someone please rip The Fuhrman Solution seven new orifices here? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  04:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Banned Books Week
Once again, it's Banned books week, so to celebrate, here's a list of books that have been banned or challenged. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Mein Kampf is conveniently missing. --K. (talk) 12:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, more people should read Mein Kampf ("'It can't happen here.' 'The hell it can't!'") But it's a list of novels, therefore fiction, and Mein Kampf was, sadly, non-fiction.. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, that's what I get for not reading the headline. Also, wow, somebody actually tried to ban 1984 (for loose morals) and Brave New World... What's next? Burning Fahrenheit 451? --K. (talk) 12:47, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Older editions have been censored, removing "hell" and "damn". Human stupidity is bottomless, I'm sure someone has burned Fahrenheit 451. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Not on the list, but I once tried to read "The 120 Days of Sodom" by De Sade. It's unreadable - at least in my opinion.  Couldn't get my stomach past the first few chapters.--Weirdstuff (talk) 13:18, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Huckleberry Finn seems to be conspicuously absent.--Spud (talk) 13:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That is peculiar, there are other books on the list banned and challenged for using racial slurs, why not the best example? --TheLateGatsby (talk) 11:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've gathered that Mein Kampf is so boring that no one should be recommended it. There are better ways to learn about one of the darkest stains of human history. Vulpius (talk) 13:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually tried reading it. It's awful, unreadable and tedious as fuck. Pretty much no neo-Nazi has ever read it; I think more anti-Nazis would have. The current English edition is academic and pretty good for what it does, i.e. a long contextualising intro and footnotes for every time Hitler lies or exaggerates. To learn about it, the abridged version of Shirer's Rise And Fall of the Third Reich is pretty good. (The unabridged version is very long and gets dull itself.) - David Gerard (talk) 18:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Do people still read that brick? It's really dated, and Shirer was a journalist, not a historian--he didn't have nearly the kind of archival access that more recent scholars do. Kershaw and Evans are probably a way better bet for the interested amateur. JubalHarshaw (talk) 18:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I figure Mein Kampf isn't banned because it is considerably more difficult to justify banning non-fiction.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 18:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's banned in Austria. --K. (talk) 22:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't the thing with Mein Kampf that the German government owns the rights to it till 2035, and is never going to let it be published? --Revolverman (talk) 21:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Kind of, but not really, no. See here. JubalHarshaw (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ahh, only 2015. --Revolverman (talk) 22:40, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And it's the state of Bavaria, not Germany. JubalHarshaw (talk) 23:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see your tedium of Mein Kampf, and raise you that life-sapping doorstop that is Gulag Archipelago. --Llegar a las estrellas¿Dígame? 14:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Freedom: long known to lack retinal cones essential in processing perception of color
Not here frequently enough to know whether this has been posted, but that's a small prize to pay in order to share this gem. The terrific overarching irony, the quality of the writing, the images used considering it was linked on a certain "family-friendly wiki"--it is a thing of beauty. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I started watching that, wondering why you posted such cheesy vid with a godawful song, then it started talking about MLK being republican, and a democrat bveing in the kkk and i rolled my eyes. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * People apparently forget (or didn't know) about the "great flip" that occurred in U.S. political history between the two big parties. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:29, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, color-blind racism. or, as I prefer to call it, "racism." JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So, the video rips on CNN, and NBC, and Keith Olbermann in particular. I notice no mention of Fox "News". Considering that it ripped on CNN and NBC in particular, and fails to even mention Fox "News" makes this video instantly full of fail. We can also draw the conclusion that the creator is an idiot modern-day Republican who thinks that Fox "News" is actual news and not bad theatre. The juxtaposition with MLK's great speech too I find quite offensive and in bad taste. If MLK were still around (and wasn't a calm pacifist), he'd slap you silly. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 02:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Another weird web story
Explosion At Japanese Chemical Plant Results In Run On Diapers In North Texas --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 19:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The Butterfly Effect is apparently like religion, or traffic, or stock prices--it only occurs when people believe in it. -- Seth Peck (talk) 19:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Traffic only occurs because we believe in it? JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, when I close my eyes on the road, all the other cars just vanish! --Revolverman (talk) 22:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * And if you plug your ears while you're at it, you won't hear the screaming! Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 10:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, traffic waves if you really wanted to know. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 10:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

utter nonsense...
First of all, what kind of twat c14 dates a dinosaur bone? Second, where do you think the collogen came from? --P3A58NT86 21:22, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, look, still older than what the YEC's say the age of the universe is. Checkmate, .... um.... -- Seth Peck (talk) 21:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That guy is a grade-A liar. You will never get a date higher that ≈50,000 years because of the half-life of C14 is only 5,730 ± 40 years; anything older and all of the C14 would have decayed to Nitrogen.  Second you won't find carbon 14 in the bones themselves because fossilized bones of that age have all been replaced by minerals and any carbon-14 on them are relatively recent impurities on the fossil itself.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 22:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * This kind of bologna has been around for a while. Yes, the half-life of 14C is so short that responsible labs will not report an age beyond fifty or sixty thousand years. That's why it is useful for archaeology, not paleontology: old campsites and kitchen middens, but not dinosaur bones. Yes, tasty birds are dinosaurs too, but leave that aside for a moment... The kind of "soft tissues" found in cases like this tend to be explained as biofilm casts, or recent slime that filled in the spaces where the dinosaurs' soft tissues made gaps and galleries in the bone. I can't be asked to chase references; anyone who cares is more than welcome to do their own googling. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 01:37, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So I did a quick Google on Thomas Seiler and came up with this; so he's obviously not an impartial scientist Maybe we need to document more of these wackaloons. Of course not all "fossils” are fossilized, I.e. have been remineralised, I have my own piece of Mosasur  jaw which is apparently still the original bone, but it's not impossible that an old bone does contain  C14, just improbable.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 08:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Also relevant. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 10:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I find it difficult to work out if this kind of thing is accidental stupidity, intentional stupidity, pure mendacity... or just a Poe. In general I go for somewhere between 2 and 3, but it's so difficult to tell sometimes. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * First, a failure to recognize distinguish tissue from some fossilized-analogous remnant. Second, a complete lack of understanding of all science - in this case specifically that radioactive decay under the crust from other elements can release particles which can transmute C-12 to C-14, and thus we should expect really really old things we dig out of the ground to contain C-14 levels equivalent to that of ~50,000 year old samples. Whether this particular one is a Poe? I don't know. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 12:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Has there been any debunking of Schweitzer's claim that the proteins found (mmm, tastes like chicken) are inconsistent with bacterial origin? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 13:18, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Err, sorry, I think that's the right answer. My post was confused, and that's what I meant. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 21:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Contraception is Darwin's Culture of Death
I was looking round the web on Thomas Seiler and stumbled across his partner in grime Hugh Owen. Any Dubliners up for a challenge? <font color=Blue>Генгис 12:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "[unnamed asshat] deliberated on the negative effects of Darwinist philosophy. The theory of evolution has practically destroyed a lot of spheres of civilization." False equivocation strawman. Falsely equivocates between evolution and social Darwinism, and a strawman because almost no one actually thinks like that. To be fair, a possible coherent argument hiding in there somewhere is "one needs to believe in god-given moral rules, otherwise they'll go rape people", but that claim is demonstrably false. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 12:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

A new banknote...
...and more not so well-hidden symbols! <font color=Blue>Генгис 15:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a weird species of goldbug right there. There is some thoroughbred crazy on the other pages. For example, since there is five times less silver in circulation than gold they reason that the "real" price of silver is five times that of gold or $8000 per troy ounce and there must be some sort of conspiracy involving the US federal government (of course), computers and JP Morgan which is keeping silver at this outrageously low price, rather than, as ordinary laymen might think, because you can mine silver for a bit less than $30 per ounce. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The word "laymen" is the key. Conspiracy theorists love thinking or boasting that they know something the ordinary person doesn't. Elevates his status. Ajkgordon (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Conspiracy theories, so complex and well hidden that the normal person cant see them, but so incompetently done that it should be so obvious. -- Mikal Harass  Follow 16:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Still looks like Monopoly money. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 19:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you think Mitt Romney plays Monopoly with real money?  19:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That's be a bit boring for him, wouldn't it? He passes go and collects 200 quid every second of the day without lifting a finger. He probably more in to hunting the most deadly prey of all on his private island. -- 23:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC)They're loony, but I was amused at how excited and breathless they were about everything. It's a nice break from the "I'm being repressed!" tone that haunts so many conspiracy theorists.   19:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Strange new obsession
For some reason I have this particular scene from a famous music video stuck in my head. What is happening to me? http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0?t=1m55s Frullic (talk) 02:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a sign from God telling you to watch out on your next elevator experience. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  03:05, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Destined to become the rickroll of the teens. Matzosphere (talk) 03:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What the fuck is this gangam style thing anyway? Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 10:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * This decade's version of Shaddap You Face. I predict a worldwide sense of embarrassment in a few months. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:59, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Doubtful. The world at large has no shame. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What catches, and how much is very difficult to predict. Matzosphere mentions rickroll, well, there were several other roll memes. Duckroll got some traction, but rickroll was so enormous that politicians were doing it. Why was rickroll so much catchier than duckroll or other members of the roll family? We can try to justify it in hindsight but there was no way to predict it in advance. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 13:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * **cough** Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>sshole silverbrain.png 21:01, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh no, could I be turning gay? Oh noes! I'm going to be a vile sinner and cause natural disasters due to God being pissed at my appreciation of Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog! Frullic (talk) 00:44, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Was Jimmy Savile a child molester?
Oh dear Lord. Balaam (talk) 11:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, my Mum always did say he was a pervert after she met him (thankfully age 20 and surrounded by friends). Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 11:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He was definitely a bit of a weirdo; Louis Theroux's documentary showed that. He obviously had a mother fixation, keeping all of her dresses after she died. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 12:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's highly unlikely, this whole posthumous allegation thing always seems a bit suspect. Just because someone is a bit quirky or a bit of a weirdo, doesn't automatically make them a sexcase (or murderer, or any other suchlike shit). User:DeltaStarUser_talk:DeltaStar 22:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Is nothing sacred? What will we discover next? Timmy Mallet was in to cock fighting? Rod Hull hired prostitutes to dress up like Emu and give him blow jobs? -- 22:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems pretty damning to me. Balaam (talk) 07:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The only surprising thing for me is that people are surprised. I first heard these rumours over a decade ago but maybe they weren't as widespread as I assumed. For me, the big story here isn't about Saville himself, it's about who knew, when, what etc. The more that comes out, the more it seems likely that several people were covering up this story. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The only surprising thing for me is that people are surprised. I first heard these rumours over a decade ago but maybe they weren't as widespread as I assumed. For me, the big story here isn't about Saville himself, it's about who knew, when, what etc. The more that comes out, the more it seems likely that several people were covering up this story. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

New cover article!
Tyrannis finally acted on it: Project Blue Beam. What's next? - David Gerard (talk) 06:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Bickering over whether or not it's worthy-- "Shut up, Brx." 06:48, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Was I always this cynical?-- "Shut up, Brx." 06:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No, stop edging in on others territory. As for this, i will vote for it, because PBB is my favorite conspiracy theory. -- Mikal Harass  Follow 07:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Uh, it's been nominated for almost 6 months now. Тy Bother me 07:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's been tarted as far as is reasonable and no-one has objected so Ty suffered a rush of blood to the head - David Gerard (talk) 08:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * [[File:Ashamed.gif]] Тy Bother me 08:24, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Half a bleedin' century!
So tomorrow marks the 50th anniversary of the release of both Love Me Do and Dr No. Oh boy, do I feel old. <font color=Blue>Генгис 08:14, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Still love Dr. No even if it is rather hokey. Fond memories of watching it regularly as a kid on television during those James Bond marathons with my old man, who is a Bond fanboy.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 12:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Android tablet
Any recommendations on one? Also, I am wondering if there is a g3 option with some sort of pay-as-you-go data plan in the US. I'll only need wireless for when I'm at home, but it would be cool to be able to use g3 when I'm on the road and away from a network. Also, it would need to have a media player that can play FLACs--that's why no Apple product. Anyone have any tips for a not-too-techy guy? JubalHarshaw (talk) 14:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I really like my asus, for about 200 bucks, but it's not G3 compat. the new Galaxy Note ten is frigging amazing.  My step mom (a 70 year old, "i'm retired i want to learn to draw and stuff") amature artist loves the way it incorporates a super quality old style drawing tabled into the works, so she can make her 'paintings'.  It's 4G, great memory but uber pricy.--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait  17:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There are iPad apps to play FLACs on iPads. Ajkgordon (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

A funny
I'm sure you've seen this, but if not got humans.--<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait 17:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Imagine the Terri Schiavo fight, except she's alive and coherent
Disgusting. -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:59, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sick. It is her life, her body, she is suffering.  death is part of life, let her go.--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait  17:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

How weird is this headline
"Canada cheese-smuggling ring busted" Oh, Canada. --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 20:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In the sidebar next to it is (for now) "Nazi Buddha originally from Space." Sophie  Wilder  21:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Must've been Mexican cheese, cause as I understand it, Mexico and Canada excluded their bilateral dairy trade from liberalization in the NAFTA. It's probably a bunch of greedy anti-New World Order capitalists. nobsCorporations are people, too 22:37, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Apparently it was US cheese. It was smuggled to dodge the tariffs on quantities greater than 20kg.-- "Shut up, Brx." 00:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 20 kilos has some bulk, must've been smuggled in 18 wheelers (about 23 tons capacity) through a regular pipeline. To beat the taxman and undercut Canuck producers must be well worth the risk. Increased regulation and taxes rarely solves the problem of a blackmarket, rather, history shows it exacerbates it. I suspect there will be more and more of this, as poverty rises, jobs stagnate, deficits and inflation swell, etc. etc. nobsCorporations are people, too 04:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Headline: "cheese smuggling between Canada and US!" Rob: "It must have been Mexican!" HAHAHAAAAA you tit. Sophie  Wilder  12:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me 'splain. You can make a few bucks hauling cheese across the border from Wisconsin or New York State, but haul a load from Mexico -- that's where the cash is. And we know where the best entry points from the Prohibition days. Shit, when I was a kid colored oleo margarine was illegal in Wisconsin and we used to do runs from the Illinois state line all the time which were well worth it economically. nobsCorporations are people, too 12:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me 'splain. How does talking about running stuff from Canada to the US (Prohibition) or from Illinois to Wisconsin 'splain anything about you dragging Mexico into this discussion? JubalHarshaw (talk) 13:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Shorter version:  -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is not about fish, it's about cheese. Pay attention. Doctor Dark (talk) 16:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Rob didn't read the headline, he read the link text. He made the assumption that the cheese was Mexican because he believes smuggling cheese from Mexico would be a profitable enterprise.  Give him a break.  -- "Shut up, Brx." 16:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

While the cheese entered Canada from the US, and while those making the delivery of the cheese may have been US citizens, the cheese itself may have been of Mexican origin because cheese of Mexican origin under NAFTA maybe purchased in the United States cheaper than in Canada. It is not illegal to smuggle Mexican cheese into the United States. Cheese of Mexican origin can be brought to a Canadian border crossing point legally. And the price of Mexican cheese in the US is cheaper than American cheese. From an economic standpoint, the decision to violate Canadian tariff restrictions would only be viable if the rewards were worth maximizing the risk, i.e., reduce costs to the maximum (meaning buy Mexican cheese) and dumping it in Canada where it commands the highest price. Buy low, sell high. Only than can the potential rewards outweigh the penalties or taxes imposed by government. Does that answer the question? nobsCorporations are people, too 16:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It would appear that the cheese "comes from the U.S.. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Rob, I'd ask you how your shoe tastes now, but as we've all seen from people like Romney, Gingrich and Bachmann, it's impossible to put your foot in your mouth when your head is up your ass. -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:11, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That does not mean jackshit. US cheese purchased in the US may not be cheese of US origin. Cheese manufactures and distributors (like Kraft Foods, for example) have for years been outsourcing manufacturing and production to Mexico. Here's a link to the Oleo Wars, of which I am a proud veteran, having served with distinction. nobsCorporations are people, too 17:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Run along, then, and find documented evidence that this cheese, in this case, came from Mexico. Or quit flappin' yer gums about stuff you just made up. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "Production growth in Mexico will respond to exports (from the US) of inputs for dairy production and processing and incentives for investment in the dairy sector in Mexico." See also section on Rules of Origin. "U.S. food processors moved to Mexico to take advantage of low wages and food imports soared." "In 2003, the stock of U.S. direct investment in Mexican processed food industries totaled $1.7 billion. Mexican direct investment in U.S. processed food industries was $1.1 billion. FDI has created multinational food companies in both countries." IOW, while NAFTA has been beneficial US dairy producing states such as Wisconsin & upstate New York creating an expanded market in Mexico, it is raw foodstuffs exported there, processed by Mexican workers and resold in the United States by multinational food processors. Canada has exempted itself from dairy products under NAFTA, therefore dairy products like cheese produced in Wisconsin & New York are shipped to Mexico, processed (additives and preserves added), packaged, and re-imported into the US, and then smuggled into Canada cause it's still cheaper than the money greedy evil Canadian dairy farmers get by screwing their fellow citizens with government backed subsidies, price supports, and import quotas. nobsCorporations are people, too 18:21, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * How much time did you spend digging that up? Says nothing about this cheese in particular. Run off and try again. JubalHarshaw (talk) 18:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Look at the USDA website: Processed food products do not require country of origin labeling. But many do have it anyway, even when there are multiple countries if origin. I've seen one with no less than 8 countries of origin. nobsCorporations are people, too 18:38, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * US cheese? LOL <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 19:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Talking about US cheese, this Canadian was quite confused when he visited friends in Washington and everyone piled into a Subway for lunch, and he was asked if he wanted Cheddar or American cheese on his sandwich. Ochotonaprinceps<sup style="color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique">not a pokémon <font face="Courier" color="#800080" size="1">1013 points 23:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Harrumph. The nation-wide brands are unremarkable, but don't overlook the more local fare.   00:33, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In fairness to me, this was a Subway restaurant, where the cheese comes in slices separated by thin paper sheets in a stack. I much prefer cheese that requires at least a little disassembly before it's ready to go on a sandwich (other than "unwrapping"). Unfortunately, for very obvious reasons, Tillamook won't ship north over the border. Ochotonaprinceps<sup style="color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique">not a pokémon <font face="Courier" color="#800080" size="1">1013 points 01:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * US cheese, in the form of sharp Vermont cheddar from the local stupor market, works perfectly well in daily use, thank you very much. If I wanted to be a bleeding aesthete and rub elbows with trendy young types, I could go downtown, where there's this joint on Main Street with a long row of microbrew taps. They will set a slate tile on the bar in front of you with an array of cheeses on it, more or less like an artist's palette. As precious as the presentation is, it's still pretty tasty. I don't go there very often. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 16:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Nazi Buddha originally from Space
Someone had fun writing that headline. It's about a Buddha statue found by a Nazi expedition (apparently not the ahnenerbe). It was made from a meteorite. Cool stuff.-- "Shut up, Brx." 00:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Talking about Smuggling
Did you know that, in the period where Canadian meat imports into the US were restricted/prohibited during the Mad Cow Disease scare, Canadian haggis was smuggled south across the border? Significant quantities of haggis was smuggled across for Burns Night celebrations, as haggis could not legally be brought into or sold in the US due to the ingredients, some of which contravened the Mad Cow prohibitions. Ochotonaprinceps<sup style="color:#0066DD; font-size: 0.7em; font-style: oblique">not a pokémon <font face="Courier" color="#800080" size="1">1013 points 23:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The Boundary Waters are ideal for smugglers. Even if you know the territory well, you're never quite sure if you are in the US or Canada at any point. nobsCorporations are people, too 00:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)


 * My dad was a Canadian cop (RCMP, the Mounties), spent much of the prohibition period on that border (St Lawrence river) and busted a fair number of people smuggling booze. All he & his colleagues ever actually caught though were local farm boys or Indians from the area's reserves running boatloads, or in winter truckloads, across the river. What they really wanted and never managed was to get a few "Mr Big" types, the Toronto and Montreal businessmen making millions off the trade. They were pretty sure who they were, but couldn't prove it. Those families are now pillars of the establishment, among Canada's best-known rich folk. Pashley (talk) 10:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Iran & WMD
So last night I was watching some of the debate for the senate election here, and heard the Republican Candidate (Fischer) say something about "how in 3 years Iran will have ICBM's that can carry nukes to america!"; and after laughing at her for about a minute, it left me wondering where on earth they expect Iran to get that much capability in a fraction of the time it's taking other countries. I'd ask the question of "why would Iran bother with reaching the US" but... war mongering. -- Mikal Harass  Follow 15:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If my memory serves, Iran barely has the rocketry capacity to reach Israel, let alone the United States. I think there are some conservatives out there who seem to think that Iran is closer to the United States than, say, Russia or China, because it looks that way on a flat map. (But then again, I've also trounced some friends of friends for thinking that Pakistan and Libya are similar) -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:42, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? What sort of geodetic projection puts Iran closer to the US than Russia or China? <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 16:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That's my point. The way you hear people talk about it, it sounds like they think Iran is just around the corner, like in Morocco or France.  -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well you need ICBM capability to hit American with a nuclear warhead from Iran. The fear from what I understand in government circles is that Iran could launch a medium range missile in the Atlantic from a ship, and use it as an EMP weapon by simply exploding it in the upper atmosphere. Given that most of our critical electronics are not adequately protected from a strong EM pulse, such a low cost move would be devastating.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 18:26, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Could an Iranian warship get to the Atlantic without the US military knowing about it? Would being able to get such ordnance into position be possible? (am I overestimating the US military's intelligence assets, or are other people underestimating them?)  -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:32, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it is possible. The ocean is very large. And as we learned from September 11, 2001, it would appear the US depends more on the enemy's stupidity than its own brilliance. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 18:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that the Iranian ports AREN'T being actively surveyed by American/NATO satellites, and seeing a warship leaving south around Cape of Good Hope wouldn't raise ANY flags? Also, 9/11 was clearly not a military failure, but one of internal security. -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Presumably the US can tell whether or not Iran has submarines capable of launching ballistic missiles, but they're difficult to track on the open sea. And yes, 9/11 was not a military failure, but it certainly proved the US is not impenetrable. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 18:57, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We probably would track Iranian naval movements in the Atlantic but that doesn't mean that would prevent them launching such a device; after all tracking and first strike initiative are two different things. Would we be able to stop them once we detected a launch? Only thing I could think of to completely prevent such a scenario from occuring is to unilaterally intercept any attempt by Iranian ships from deploying close enough where such a threat is plausible; I however don't feel such political will would be there. --BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 19:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt very much that Iran has submarine technology, especially anything that would be able to approach the continental US and launch an ICBM. Iran has poor access to open waters and even if they might like to think that they control the Straits of Hormuz they would not be able to exit without  the US knowing about it.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 20:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The Iranians bought arms on the open market like everyone else. They have submarines built by the Russians (not nuclear submarines obviously, the Russians aren't actually stupid) and they've endeavoured to develop their own. Probably they can't sneak about in those submarines because they're too shit (the Russian ones will be intentionally not good enough to sneak up on the Russians for example). But anyway, the point is that if you can sneak up to someone's coast you don't need an ICBM. The idea of submarine launched ICBMs is that if the bad guys kill you your submarine pops up somewhere completely unrelated, and launches ICBMs at them from literally half way around the world. It's a deterrent against decapitation strikes. That's why the missile submarines are nuclear - only nuclear power lets you cruise around underwater for months somewhere random, any other power source would need refuelling and give away your position. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 21:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * People are obsessed with missiles. This is old cold war thinking based on the question of who could get most of the things in the air quickest and thus win the nuclear missile pissing contest.  Why would Iran want to use an ICBM? It couldn't possibly win said nuclear pissing competition with the US.
 * The logical thing would be to load a nuclear bomb into a cargo vessel, sail it though some neutral ports - or transship it - and then sail it, or them, into US harbour cities. About 1,000 times easier than miniaturising it and putting it on top of an untested ICBM. You get the further massive advantage of denyability which you wouldn't get with an ICBM.
 * Denyability is important because, you know, the US might just respond a little aggressively if it knew for sure where the bomb came from.--Weirdstuff (talk) 21:45, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * These people know what they're talking about. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 11:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually deploying a bomb isn't in their interest. They want to project an image of capability, so they wouldn't use a bomb and then deny any involvement, unless they somehow directly benefited from the bombing. And they wouldn't use a a bomb and then admit it, either, because they would soon disappear in a cloud of dust. No, they want a bomb so they can wave it around in everyone's faces, and the moment they use it, they've got nothing left to wave around. They want a bomb for deterrent purposes, probably on the assumption that if they have a bomb, it will basically be impossible for any foreign nation to invade on threat of retaliation. I know a lot of hay is made of "but they're crazy! they could do anything!" but it takes a truly crazy person to disregard their own self-preservation and Iran's top brass would have to be literally full of them. I'm sure they know enough of the basics of game theory to know that they can't just start bombing as soon as they gets nukes and then expect to continue to live. ONE / TALK 11:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I present this only as a possibility, but I've heard some talk, such as by Christopher Hitchens, that some of that top brass, like the current president, do believe the endtimes are near. I hate betting the lives of so many on the sanity of so few who have already proclaimed tenuous links to reality, such as holocaust denialism. Do I actually have a plan to do anything about it? Not really. Meh. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 20:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

US residents - last week to register!
In most states (CA the major exception) this is the last week to register to vote for US elections. If you've not yet registered, do so. If you are registered, make sure you know where and how to vote, what ID you need, etc. New laws might make it difficult for you to walk into your polling place if you are a student, or have moved in the last 6 months. Be informed. Vote! (Brought to you by your neighborhood annoyance, door knocker, and website heckler).--<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait 15:39, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Speaking of that, PA has had its Voter ID law blocked-- Mikal Harass  Follow 15:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty happy with the judical system this year. They have consistantly said "you cannot do this nonsense, especially not within 60 days of an election, in a presidential year.  Colorado has an law that any major election code change must be done on an odd year (no Senate, house or president) so it can be tested and voters can be informed.  I think judges around the nation are following that kind of mind set, law or not.--[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot rien ne marcherait  16:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * So, back to the old trick of "If you wish to vote Republican, turn up on Nov 6, but if you wish to vote Democratic, turn up Nov 7." Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>moral silverbrain.png 10:26, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "law or not". I like the US judicial system for its limited but non-zero judicial activism. There's a right to vote? Great. We're going to enforce that right in practice, not in some legalese technical sense. Also, see: 9th amendment. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 20:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course, if you're one of the 5.3 million Americans ( 2.42% of the otherwise-eligible voting population ) who are denied the right to vote because of a felony conviction then don't bother. Innocent Bystander (talk) 21:16, 5 October 2012 (UTC)