Talk:Andrew Schlafly (no jokes)/Archive2

Expert on Everything Links needs
Help needed please on providing difflinks to support the various topics Andy claims to be an authority on. More difflinks help the case. DogP  18:48, 12 September 2008 (EDT)


 * I'd like to bump this request.  Please let's solidify that section.   There's still three assertions on our side - that he has claimed expertise on Constitutional Law, Law in general, and Economics  - these are all totally unsupported by us.   Let's find refs!   And the US History thing about the biggest class size, while related, is hardly him displaying an inflated sense of expertise on US History.   So - to the research links everyone!   DogP  11:49, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * About the law part, could #Andy and legal incompetence|the joke version be adapted for this article? -- Nx  talk 12:06, 4 January 2009 (EST)


 * Yes, perhaps, though it seems a little thin, snarky and lacking in evidence, and I know he's spent quite a bit of time expounding on law and economics, but it's hard to search if you don't know the context.  DogP  16:57, 5 January 2009 (EST)


 * I was thinking Conservapiracy and FBI incident for starters, though on second thought, it doesn't fit in with the rest (i.e. him claiming superior expertise) --  Nx  talk 17:11, 5 January 2009 (EST)


 * The former isn't a bad one, but I think the FBI Incident is off-base, as the law in that area is indeed not very clearly defined.  I still remember him blabbering on about the Constitution somewhere as if he was THE expert on the subject, but I can't find it.   Thanks fer trying to help though Nx!   DogP  18:29, 5 January 2009 (EST)

Link to "Schlafly Statisitics"
If this excellent article is meant to be a serious analysis of Andrew Schlafly's fundamental shortcomings as a professional educator and as an intellectual, should it not avoid linking to lulzy RW articles? PFoster 19:58, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Agreed. I added a ref so that should suffice. I'll remove the wikilink. Good spotting. Ace McWickedThis Talk Page is growing rapidly 20:01, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I also removed the link from our snarky Lenski Affair and added a ref to CP's page on the same. This is "no jokes" after all. Ace McWickedThis Talk Page is growing rapidly 20:06, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't see why we shouldn't link to our articles, since they back up a lot of what is synopsized here. Just not articles that say "fuck fuck fuck" all over them.  ħ uman  20:49, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I reckon its a good idea to keep this impartial from the rest of rationalwiki. Just my feeling. Ace McWickedThis Talk Page is growing rapidly 20:56, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I don't think any hoped-for reader of this would enjoy a single one of our other articles.  It's best to refer directly to CP, or elsewhere.   This article needs maximum, rock-hard defenses.   DogP  21:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, no problem. I'll consider myself out-voted and out-argued :)  Would it make any sense to have "no jokes" versions of some of our articles?  Or just hope the CP links don't rot?  ħ uman  22:53, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

reference style
I notice that this article is all over the map with its reference styles. Some use "ref" tags and are then footnotes, others are "in line" and linked to words or phrases. Can we pick one style and use it consistently?  ħ uman  20:51, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Ref's I reckon Ace McWickedThis Talk Page is growing rapidly 20:56, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, it's gotten sloppy.  We should do refs.   DogP  21:12, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, updated all to refs expect one I think. Fix later though I will. Ace McWickedThis Talk Page is growing rapidly 22:03, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Awesome, thanks. I just couldn't face the effort ;)  ħ uman  22:51, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Fun the other one?
Ok, this might be an unpopular suggestion, but hear me out. I think the current Andrew Schlafly article ought to be funned (as in moved to Fun:Andrew Schlafly}}), and this no jokes version moved to [[Andrew Schlafly. My reasons: Yeah, the joke version is kind of a flagship article here, but it's time for change.  YES WE CAN!--Bayes 01:04, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * To my knowledge there are no other mainspace articles that are as satirical as the current AS article, which already reads like a fun article. It's not even close.  That's what the Fun namespace is for.
 * There is a giant "Warning: Satire" banner on the current AS article to keep people from taking it seriously, and one reason to have the Fun namespace is to avoid potential confusion about that sort of thing
 * Other places on the tubez have criticised RW for the current AS article because they've felt it's over the top (IIRC someone thought RW was an ED clone or something. Not that it's a huge deal what other commenters think but it's worth mentioning)
 * The jokes article will retain its satire/humor level no matter where it is located
 * You can feel less guilty about editing the AS article while drunk if it's funned
 * The no jokes article is more in line with the site mission statement
 * Last but not least: The no jokes article is good enough to deserve first-class treatment, and would be more effective if not "hidden" behind a joke article
 * This has been brought up a few times, but has been rejected each time. The whole reason we even wrote this article was because our existing article had archived such a high google ranking. When people search for information about Andrew Schlafly they now find us. This was set up to provide information to those random googlers. Moving the old article to fun and replacing with this would remove our ranking. We are much better served keeping things the status quo. Also there has been a lot of praise for our article on the "intertubes" as well. Some haven't liked it, many have, and linked to it. That is why it got up their on google to begin with. tmtoulouse 01:11, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Google rankings are great, but 1.)Is the article's purpose to get high rankings? and 2.)the current AS article is still inconsistent with the way the rest of the site "feels". It didn't bother me as much before a decent alternative was available but the no jokes version seems to be close to being a solid one.--Bayes 01:19, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * There are several reasons not to switch things up, you can find a couple debates on both talk pages I imagine. But I will be frank, my primary reason is that I like being one of the top (and the top for a several countries) for searches on Andrew Schlafly. Here is the thing, why have this article at all? What are we trying to do with it? We are writing it to be useful, to impart knowledge, and people find websites using google. I think it would be detrimental to both articles to move them. But let us see if others chime in. tmtoulouse 01:26, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree with tmtoulouse (despite my instincts crying "no you fool!").Ace McWickedcast ye the first stone 01:27, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Whoa, I missed the previous discussions. Then again, I seem to be really good at digging up old crap lately...hey, you know what would be a good idea? A site-wide intercom.--Bayes 01:36, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

That a great idea, we could call it "intercom" Ace McWickedcast ye the first stone 01:38, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * My .07: Andrew Schlafly is our article on the twat/twit/twerp.  This article is an attempt to cash in on our high google rank to, hopefully, reach teh occasional parent who is thinking of tossing Andy $250 to give their kid a 97 for an illiterate anser to a "homework" assignment.  This article would never be our article on the assfly.  If the two were swapped, I would then swap all the content because our main Andrew Schlafly article tells it like it is - the real Andrew, with no worrying about whether some YEC parent would read it.  ħ uman  02:35, 25 September 2008 (EDT)


 * "That's what the Fun namespace is for" = no, the "fun" namespace is for non-mission pieces that we don't want to delete. (Other that big Jesus/Jesus Christ swap PC pulled on us that I didn't have the energy to undo)
 * "*Other places on the tubez have criticised RW for the current AS article" - links, please?
 * "...would be more effective if not "hidden" behind a joke article..." Hidden? It's in the friggin' google text, it's at the top of the article (link to it).  Maybe we should link to it more internally from appropriate places?
 * Anyway, our AS article is heavily footnoted, relatively factual, and funny as hell, and mocks a fricking nutjob to within in inch of his suspenders - that, to me, is the ultimate expression of our "mission".  ħ uman  02:41, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * What is "within in inch of his suspenders" supposed to refer to? If we go any farther, will he be caught with his pants down?  : )   02:46, 25 September 2008 (EDT)


 * "The "fun" namespace is for "non-mission" pieces that we don't want to delete" = exactly my point. I'm saying that the no jokes version is way more informative and therefore, to me, more on mission than the current Andy article.  Heck, anyone who isn't already familiar with Andy's CP ridiculousness won't get much out of even the intro.  I guess it comes down to whether the article's main intent is information or mockery.
 * ""links please." From a (non-fundy) comment here: "...replete with encyclopedia dramatica cliche style internet terms (see their article on Andrew Schlafly for example)...."  Yeah, it's a comment on a blog, which was not what I remembered, so not exactly "strong" evidence.  Interpret as you will.
 * Also, to satisfy the Kenservative in all of us: why wouldn't the no jokes version itself wind up being highly Google ranked? It's better than what CP and WP have. Anyway I guess the mob has already addressed this point and I humbly submit to its will, but the issue has been raised independently multiple times now and as the no jokes one improves it could come up again.--Bayes 10:55, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * If the day does come when we decide to move "no jokes" to the main name, why not just take the mocking version and call it "Andrew Schlafly (with jokes)"? PS, if "no jokes" gets high on google too, fine.  leave them both where they are to preserve the ranking makes sense to me.  I know, hiogh google ranks are not our "goal", but it's nice to have some, surely, for the traffic they bring?  ħ uman  16:33, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Frogs
So Rationalwiki walked into the doctor's office with this frog - this live frog - sticking out of its forehead.

The doctor looks at it and says, "What the hell happened to you?"

"I dunno," says the frog. "It started out as a wart on my ass!"

67.135.49.198 02:49, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I dunno, I was reading something wrote on CP, and I came over all funny like... and this thing puked out of my head.  ħ uman  02:52, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Bah. The second plague ("Frogs") is much funnier.   02:54, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * So I walked up the street to my house (lucky I live near my office) and my girlfriend had jinx's children ready from the oven (quite a dissapointing meal, all gristle really). I wolfed it down after being hungry and working late, jump on the laptop as I have more work to do and find that the above joke is the best Jinx can do. Really Jinx, come on man! Ace McWickedcast ye the first stone 03:15, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * McNuggets!!! I win the prize!  ħ uman  03:29, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Eh? McNuggets? Godamnit Human what the hell are you talking about? Or am I missing something here? Ace McWickedcast ye the first stone 03:31, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Fast-frozen froglegs in frittata batter, fired up in the oven for friggin' eatin'! Gristly, though. That was the tip off.  ħ uman  03:34, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * LSD much? If so, got any spare? Ace McWickedcast ye the first stone 03:36, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * What do limited-slip differentials have to do with this? I admit, they are awesome, but still... you can't eat them. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:45, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
 * 1/10 NightFlarei haz a talk page. 10:35, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

AP certification
If we falsely claim that Andy falsely claims AP certification when he doesn't we are moving into liable here. I think we need a screenshot of the diff link to be sure on this one. - User  $\approx$$\pi$For best results always render PNG 01:50, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree. he is pretty vague in his claims.  If we can't nail him clearly, we need to back off (maybe say it another way?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:59, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, that's fair enough, mea culpa.  I pitched that in there, intending to find the supporting evidence, but sleep overcame me, probably brought on by post-debate boredom.   But I see you've done a fine job of rewriting it, Sir Pi, and I thank you - I think it's good.  <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  11:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Comparisons between Andrew Schlalfy's class and the AP
In the sample answer for 'What do you find most inspiring about Christopher Columbus?' - "That he had an idea: That you could go west by sailing east" shouldn't it be pointed out that Columbus sailed west to get to the east, not vice versa? <font color=Blue>Генгис   13:00, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Hehe, sure, why not? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:39, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Funny, I was just looking at that. --Kels 16:44, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Residence
Where does schlafly live??? I want to write a letter to him! &mdash; Unsigned, by: 98.227.91.32 / talk / contribs


 * It's common knowledge that he lives in the area of Trenton, NJ. But you'll have to do your own cyberstalking if you want further details. <font color=Blue>Генгис    10:10, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Hey Ken, check out THESE Google rankings!
Google ranking of this article for the search term "Andrew Schlafly educator": 1 Google ranking of this article for the search term "Andrew Schlafly teacher": 1 Google ranking of this article for the search term "Andrew Schlafly homeschool": 4

These results are, of course, only what I get. Other searchers may get considerably different results. But it seems we are having considerable success with this article. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  12:11, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
 * We are climbing the internets! Soon the lies that represent "Andrew Schlafly, educator and mentor to Kendoll" will be dispelled and Atheism, Evolutionism, and Gaybowelism will rulzors the internets! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:18, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

College achievements
As idiotic of a "teacher" as Schlafly is, he claims to have educated kids who went on to such prestigious institutions as Notre Dame, Emory, Ball State, Vanderbilt, Villanova, the US Coast Guard Academy, and Ivy League schools Brown and Cornell! What would we comment about those achievements? Maybe that the Ivy League-educated Schlafly can't really train a lot of future Ivy League students, given that he hasn't mentioned Stanford, Dartmouth, or even his own Princeton or Harvard!

Ironically, he even acknowledges that despite his anti-public-school stance some of the students eventually go to public universities like Sacramento State and University of Florida.--AP 23:36, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

AP Section
Human - could you fix my spelling and wording as you just started? I been driking tonight, but it's an important point to make in critiicizn his "AP Class" that he doens't actually prepeare people for the format of the exam. So if you could smoothen that whole section that would be helpful.--CWaddell 03:27, 19 October 2008 (EDT)


 * That has to score as the best request for one drunk to fix another drunk's work. I am sad that I had to erase the broken formatting of your request! I'll go look, if I haven't already... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:30, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I think you only made one mistake, which I already fixed. You misunderestimate your skills when impaired I think ;) (we kan haz site coded by drunks, after all!) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:34, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

difflinks neededededed!!!
Examples of what Schlafly asks:

1. What do you find most inspiring about Christopher Columbus?

Sample answer: "That he had an idea: That you could go west by sailing east. Nobody believed him, but he pursued this idea, and he went down as one of the most famous travelers of all time. He didn't let anyone dilute his dream." Completely incorrect, it was already well known the world was round, but full credit awarded: 10/10 (You may also notice that the student had the directions backwards; Columbus aimed to go to the East by sailing west. As the overall concept is the same regardless of direction traveled, we let this slide.)

Another sample answer: "His determination." Grade: Full credit.

What was the Boston Tea Party?

Sample answer: "Samuel Adams led a group of colonists, all dressed up as Indians, into the Boston harbor, where they dumped all the tea into the water." No mention of motives, taxes, effects, whose tea it was or where it came from, or anything else is made, but full credit is awarded.

Describe what you like most about the Monroe Administration.

Rather than "fact" tagging each of these in the article, I whine, and tag teh shit out of them here. We need links! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:40, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Personal Info--how much is too much?
RE: Genghis's last edit--how much personal info is too much? Just because look-someone-up-dot-com can produce personal info, do we need to link to it? Do we need to be pointing people toward someone's home-phone-wife-family-children? To what end? This article is supposed to be geared towards potential homeschoolers and their parents so they know what they're going to be dealing with--not to enable potential stalkers/pranksters. Anyone who wants to look up stuff on people-searching websites can do it without our help. And so what if his wife is a few months older than he? Your Mom is a few years older than me, and nobody makes a big deal about that. PFoster 12:05, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * I've backed that bit off because it is a bit much, it doesn't really add anything and just makes the article look a bit stalkerish. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:21, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks PFoster 12:22, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * (EC2)You're right. I'd remove it but I see you've already done it. Sorry. <font color=Blue>Генгис    12:23, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * Not a problem, really. I never knew you could look someone up with sites like that, may have to do some self searching to make sure there's nothing incriminating on myself... <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:32, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
 * I would almost be ok with it (whatever could be found on google?), although if it was an issue of listing his address, phone number, etc., that might go to the silly. The potential readers of this article already have his phone number and address, or whatever.  They know the guy in person. We're just trying to tell them what they don't know know about what a crappy teacher he is.  <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:13, 2 November 2008 (EST)

Congrats
My humblest congratulations to everyone involved in this article. It's a noble work. --<font color="#4169E1" face="courier">JJ4e <font color="#FFA812">I love you 22:03, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * Biggest props to Tmtoulouse (Trent), who noticed that the snarky version was a big draw and asked us to write a serious one for the potential Schlafarents. And, yes, many other people have done great work here, kudos to them, too! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:17, 4 November 2008 (EST)

Class Size
On his beliefs on class size, I would like to point out that most large parties are very destructive to the environment around them and are only beneficial in fundraisers. This would help support the claims that his courses are diploma mills. --LordKira 12:42, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Bible translations
Not sure how to word it, so I'll just leave the suggestion here, but shouldn't we add his recent crusade against most bible translations, and his rather...unique take on Jesus' emphasis on h Hell? The former fits into his "I don't disagree with the Bible, the Bible disagrees with me!" approach, but the latter is especially weird given that it swims upstream against all available evidence and puts emphasis on punishment rather than forgiveness or mercy, both of which he seems to regard as un-Christian. --Kels 11:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Colleges
I dunno, is it our place to doubt that students he's had have actually made it into college? If his history course is anything to go by, he's incompetent and lazy enough that doing a single course on a single subject taxes his abilities as it is, I doubt he really has much more impact on their education otherwise. So I'd say there are lots of students who get into college despite him, and just learn the skill of telling the idiot what he wants to hear just to get through. Take a look here, for instance. The last question is one of the finest examples of a student just picking out catchphrases to suck up I've ever seen, and you can see the results for yourself. --Kels 12:30, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * And he even manages an uncorrected typo in his comment to that answer: "WOW! That's a terrific ending to one of the past homework papers by anyone all year. WELL DONE!" Marmite    on Toast   12:39, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Schlafly could take tuition on grammar, spelling and sheer comprehendability from that student. I disagree with (almost) everything he says, but he says it well, unlike A.S. Fortinbrass 12:44, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Seriously, these kids should all get a refund, if not Andy paying them tuition. Most, if not all, of them are obviously smarter than he is. --Kels 12:47, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Hopefully they see the "course" as a weekly trip to the circus to watch the clown, and don't let it interfere with their edumacation. Marmite    on Toast   12:55, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, does anyone know what, if anything as I suspect many students will just be close family friends and kids who are "into" the whole homeschooling thing, he actually charges? Or is he, as a friend of mine puts it, just working for wine? <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 13:12, 21 December 2008 (EST)
 * I have a memory, can't finger it exactly, of $270 being mentioned. Marmite    on Toast   13:19, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Schlafly's ability to think
The current second sentence, "We assume he could think better when he got those degrees than he does now on Conservapedia.", needs to go. This is not a good way to start a genuine attempt to inform people about this guy. For anyone that has any ability to think themselves, Schlafly's lack of that ability will become apparent quickly enough in any serious effort to learn about him. OneForLogic 17:21, 27 December 2008 (EST)
 * I know who wrote that. Her style does not work well on this article.  Feel free to improve. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:54, 27 December 2008 (EST)