User talk:LeftyGreenMario/Archive4

email
You haz one. AceModerator 20:25, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yah I do but I sometimes forget to check it. 22:27, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Calling out libraries
A sysops has added a section to the terf article calling out public libraries for allowing a group like Meagan Murphy's to meet. I wonder if you would agree with making the library's public access policies an issue. When I hear nazi hate speech and compare that to women paranoid about trans-women in their safe spaces, I have a bit of sympathy for the latter because their concern does not seem based in hatred. See Terf Supportive Libraries. It's one thing to criticize terfs, I am uncertain about criticizing the libraries.Ariel31459 (talk) 20:26, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It's not exactly Neo Nazi group but the language you use to describe terfs is sympathetic when in reality they are intolerant bigots who are unhealthily obssesed with genitals and chromosomes. It's the equivalent of libraries inviting homophobic groups to pander to their concerns about gays in their safe spaces. I think it's worthy being criticized because it always invites hostility to vulnerable groups and what libraries should do is prioritize and protect those vulnerable groups that have faced hostility and worse. 20:48, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Basically, imagine if a public library invited a "Death to America/the West" imam to hold an event. Your reaction to that idea is probably pretty close to the way gays and trans people might react to homophobes, TERFs, or alt-righters doing the same thing. 20:52, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * TERFs are most definitely not motivated by anything sympathetic, hell some of them even court fascists due to their shared bigotry. — Oxyaena Harass  20:54, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Agree with the above two viewpoints. And if you think TERFs don't procure violent rhetoric, they do. Of course, there are more reasonable-sounding TERFs, but TERFs are toxic bigots, plain and simple. 20:57, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't want to draw heavy lines under the obvious but, still, I am not apologizing for Terfs. Let them look after themselves. I am apologizing for public libraries. Library spaces are public spaces that invite the general public. Attempting to exclude terfs from libraries is pointless because it could not possibly be legal, at least in America. It could very well generate more hostility towards trans issues. I think that is likely. I am satisfied to have brought the matter up.Ariel31459 (talk) 21:19, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * We're not excluding TERFs from using libraries in general? We just believe TERFs shouldn't use libraries as a platform to share their hateful ideas to others. 21:22, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That's begging the question. Maybe they shouldn't feel the way they do. If you could chase them away with a rolled up newspaper do you think they would change their minds? In America, Imams who want to destroy America are free to speak as long as they don't call for the commission of a crime. Ariel31459 (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * And I'm pretty sure libraries actively know what TERFs are doing and are cooperating with TERFs. This is support for TERFs. Maybe they can tolerate some TERFs on the facade of the library, but most speakings are scheduled, and libraries do have that choice to reject that scheduling if they wish, even if they are public-owned. 21:33, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * No. Public libraries do not usually have such discretion, any more than towns can always prevent Nazis or KKK rallys from getting a permit to march in a town."Public libraries that open their facilities to public use cannot disadvantage or exclude speakers or groups from using their facilities solely because they disagree with those parties' views or the content of their speech." American Library Association.Ariel31459 (talk) 21:41, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * But Toronto's own FAQ has this question: "Aren’t we contravening our own policy? Section 4.4a)i of the Community and Event Space Rental policy states that “The Library reserves the right to deny or cancel a booking when it reasonably believes: i. use by any individual or group will be for a purpose that is likely to promote, or would have the effect of promoting discrimination, contempt or hatred for any group or person…”"
 * This the point of contention here. The library of Toronto CAN reject individuals and speakers if they promote discrimination. They don't think TERFs do this because they dress up their bigotry behind fuzzy terminology like "to have an educational and open discussion on the concept of gender identify and its legislation ramifications on women in Canada", but trans people do see through that smokescreen and that's why they complain. In Seattle's case, however, you are probably correct that they have little they can do to restrict TERFs so maybe that edit should be amended, have some note saying they're a public space restricted by ALA guidelines (assuming the ALA guidelines are authoritative which I believe they are). 21:52, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

The "Banning/tech proposal" topic
Just want to say that Ace has responded to it. And he's not happy (giving a heads up incase there'd be another Ace/Oxy flame war)... Tinribmancer (talk) 11:57, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

A request
James Earl Cash and NERD have reappeared. I think that if I conflict with JEC he will take it personally. I would hope he will forgive my past indiscretions. I want NERD to unretire. So, I am inclined to let him have his way as much as possible, especially if he is right in his edits. Ariel31459 (talk) 01:10, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I do not want to be a dictator, so feel free to disagree. As long as you remain calm, rational, and respectful, I really don't mind. I just hate it when people resort to personal attacks. For what it's worth, you are one of the editors who have been the kindest to me. Thank you! Nerd (talk) 01:22, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Winter Board of Trustees meeting
We need to arrange a time for the next Board of Trustees meeting. Would you be free next Saturday (21 December) at the same early morning time as before? I look forward to speaking to you again. Spud (talk) 16:30, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll try to be, and while I try putting a reminder on my phone, just plop a message in my talk page, if you can remember that (but of course it's my obligation to remember) and that'll be appreciated. 20:22, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, because you asked, I'll remind you. The meeting will be first thing tomorrow morning your time and midnight tonight my time Spud (talk) 07:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder. I actually checked last night and it made me set my alarm. It's a good meeting, though I kinda wish FuzzyCatPotato was there. 17:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Mario teaches sex ed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EKAuwk2ugU 05:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The impersonation's quite good, though Mario's impersonation is way too gruff and grating compared to the actual voice in The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 cartoon (which the animation is from; Mario and Luigi have different voices - Mario's Lou Albano, Luigi's Danny Wells in the original Super Mario Bros. Super Show; Mario's Walker Boone, Luigi's Tony Rosato in the Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3) Fun fact: Walker Boone's the only one alive of those four, sadly). I think Luigi is far closer to what he sounds like in the cartoon. And also you can hear me nerd out again about Mario stuff, I like sounding like one.I will say the cartoon is not good. 05:14, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Mario teaches health class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOxU95wbUxg 20:29, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

On Douglas Murray
Thank you! I am not as familiar with him myself other than that he and Sam Harris regular promote one another and that he keeps appearing on Sam's podcast. I do suspect Douglas Murray is close to being an open white genocide theorist, and I see him regularly promoted by those people. He also calls himself a Christian atheist and is proud to identify as a white British, extols Anglo-Saxon tradition, hates Jeremy Corbyn, hates Muslim immigrants, wants Brexit, loves the Conservative Party, and wrote an essay titled "Neoconservativism: Why We Need it," (which was praised by Christopher Hitchens.) In short, he's far-right. UsuryUnlimited (talk) 11:12, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think you will find the phrase "praised by Christopher Hitchens" an admirable comment by many on the left, who still respect CH. Some care should be taken in treating Murray, who can be regarded as a more conservative successor to Hitchens. He is not a run of the mill racist, but he is a difficult opponent. British conservatism has turned to an isolationism that can be construed as racist. Ariel31459 (talk) 15:51, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Uh, so he seems to be praised by both Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris. I'm not sure what he has done to garner praise from the two since I have really negative impressions on him. But if Murray isn't a close white genocide theorist, he's really close to it from what I've read. The Wikipedia page on  has Sam Harris praising the book though the sourced link is broken. I'll trawl on the Internet for a bit (which I've done but it just gave me some criticism on Strange Death of Europe as seen the Sam Harris reddit as well as a podcast I don't have access to). Anyhow I like to have references to his claims; I already have some on Muslim immigrants (I don't think he "hates" them as he "distrusts" them as he says immigration should not be halted but be curbed) and on some on Brexit (I don't know his full views on it since I don't know Brexit too well; I just know he likes Brexit because one of his articles has an accompanying cartoon of a posh lion getting freed from the EU cage). I'll check out the "Neoconservativism: Why We Need it" part when I can, but not sure if I can provide some rebuttals.
 * Ariel: "praised by Christopher Hitchens" might sound meaningful, but it's just an empty endorsement to me. Same with Sam Harris. I'm not sure if I should really take more care in treating Murray differently even though his own unsavory viewpoints should be brought forth. If he's going to say crap like how migrants are going to destroy Europe, I'm going to counter it regardless of who has praised him in the past. 21:03, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't expect you to be out of character, and I am not going to scold you for being pro-immigrant. I think that's the American way, if there is one. On the other hand Murray is British. I am not a Hitchens admirer overall. It's just that very few educated people of any note are willing to deny his status as an important modern British intellectual. I think, like it or not, the same may be eventually true of Murray. I like Hitchens' anti-theism debates. They are entertaining (if you are unfamiliar.) On the other hand I am pretty sure he was unfair to Hillary Clinton, and to sell books he chased approval of the far-right by attacking her husband with a venom I still find surprising. And then, there was that Iraq war thing. No, so any way, I am glad you are waiting to study more of Murray's work. I have not read either of his two last books.  I will say, judging from his speeches, he presents more carefully reasoned arguments than you might expect from your run of the mill racist pol. I will try to read one of the last two books and get back to you about it. Ariel31459 (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair for the rest. I don't really follow Hitchens or Harris which is an additional reason the endorsement means little to me. I'm not an admirer of either though I do tend to agree with their viewpoints in some areas and I'm willing to excuse Hitchens's apparent sexism, at least from what's documented here. As for Murray, though, I can't say his arguments are "carefully reasoned". He sometimes write a bit coherently than I expect, but I went through his Twitter and his Daily Mail articles and didn't like what he wrote. 03:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. I don't want to gainsay your impression of Murray. I do think he is an interesting speaker. I am reading The Strange Death of Europe now. If I can get through it, I'll have more to say later.Ariel31459 (talk) 06:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I should add Douglas Murray has been on Sam Harris's podcast quite a few times and I have a recording from one of them of him doing a pretty unfunny transphobic rant. (It's full of the one joke conservatives keep using.) Rather than ever contradicting him, Sam kept laughing like it was the funniest thing and then after the snippet ended he even praised him for having the wit of Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens for his own part praised Douglas Murray in an article when they were both attacking critics of invading or Iraq, but then died before he wrote "the Strange Death of Europe," and might not have foreseen that he would jump further off the deep end.

Just giving you both more insight into Douglas Murray's character.UsuryUnlimited (talk) 05:09, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Murray's book, Madness of Crowds has a section on trans issues. You might consider reading that part, if you haven't already done, and that would give you a good basis for critiquing his views. I expect insipid jokes is not a promising introduction to them. Still, I am always advocating for scholarly journalism where possible.Ariel31459 (talk) 18:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@LGM: Having read the introduction, I can say that so far Murray is talking about cultural death. Is this equivalent to white genocide theory? I think to answer one way or the other depends on ideology. In America we understand that our culture is assumed to be an in-group construct identified with whiteness. It is a white supremacist idea, typical of Americans, that all European countries are white and somehow equivalent in value from a racist point of view. It is, for better or worse, a reductionist view. I am skeptical that Europeans view Europe, as a homeland, in the way that Americans view America. I have visited western Europe, albeit decades ago, yet my knowledge of what's worth keeping, and of the way life passes there, seems to me to be inadequate to answer the question of what is valuable in European culture. It's like an art project really, and the argument is about who the artists should be.Ariel31459 (talk) 18:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@LGM: About The Strange Death of Europe: I can say, so far, the presentation, though pointed, has the appearance of a scholarly work done for the general educated reader. I would guess that although it may have been a best seller, only those willing to digest a series of dense expository chapters will have bothered to read it. There was only one copy for sale at my local Barnes and Nobles. That being said, I am reading it and wonder if you want to hear more about it. It may be, because Murray is ostensibly opposed to mass-immigration into Briton, that is all you need to know. I guess the book is an attempt to describe some of the historical problems related to sudden large-scale demographic changes in countries, unlike America, that afford distinct and continuous cultural identities. Let me know if you would like an actual synopsis or an outline of sorts for use in completing an article, or even just to save you the bother of reading it yourself.. Ariel31459 (talk) 18:44, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

I have finished The Strange Death of Europe. Looking for it on Wikipedia I find very little description of the text in it. That wiki also attributes a grade of Low with regard to its importance to conservatism, despite ranking it as a conservative book. The swapping out of white Europeans with those from other continents is never mentioned critically without also mentioning the concerns of racism, and then only a very few times. Since you have not replied to my inquiry, I am assuming you don't want an article on the book. Just as well. I don't think you would like it.Ariel31459 (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * As long as the article would be missional (it appears that it would be from the subject), go ahead and make one if you're so motivated. Bongolian (talk) 23:11, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm just too busy to get invested right now but I'll review it later. Please provide passages and relevant context. Thanks. 23:32, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Invisible edits
Your recent reversion aren't showing up on the recent changes log. Do you know why? 00:15, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Huh, all I did was just middle click (open tab) rollback the hell out of all the edits. 00:17, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, one of my log filters was turned off somehow. 00:18, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello again
I have noticed that it is considered contentious to say anything that appears to be challenging to our transgender advocates. What are we using as a standard reference on transgender issues? I imagined that gender being a social construct was acceptable. Ariel31459 (talk) 22:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know what if any standard references there are, but our page on non-binary gender would seem to affirm that gender is a social construct because different societies have recognized different numbers and varieties of genders. Bongolian (talk) 22:10, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean "challenging to our trans advocates". Again, the language you used reflects the dogwhistling from TERFs, which is what sets off people, including me. 02:07, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean "appears to be challenging..." as opposed to an actual challenge. What I mean is that they are not even prepared to exchange critical ideas that do not bear directly on the reality of trans issues (in this case, semantics). My interests at this point are more to do with clarity than verity. I do not oppose the reification of transgender idealism. I am interested in what it is doing, what it says. I have so far concluded that, no one really knows beyond a few definitions. I in no way feel obligated to discuss this any further, unless invited to do so by another editor. I do not intend to set you off to anywhere you find unacceptable.Ariel31459 (talk) 17:49, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

The Nazi is splitting hairs.
White nationalists are Nazis. They fucking fly swastikas go to Nazi rallies. For fuck's sake! That's one of the fucking terms the original Nazis fucking used!! 02:46, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Trying to explore the definitions: are there strains of white nationalism that doesn't have a German nationalist bent? I mean, would a person be a Nazi for wanting to create a white ethnostate that targets black people or Native Americans? I see the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Confederates, and Christian Identity considered white nationalist, and they predate Nazism. I always thought there was a distinction between the two terms but maybe I'm confusing white nationalism with the broader concept of racism the entire time... 02:50, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It is basically splitting hairs. There's plenty of internecine fighting among the various Nazis, as is true of most umbrella groups: pure NS hating Nazbols, Nazbols hating Pepes, etc. The unity of the whole lot of them is one of the few things that Nazis and anti-Nazis seem to agree on, as noted by the two quotes at the top of our alt-right page. Bongolian (talk) 03:21, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, gotcha. I plead ignorance now, I hope I don't go again into discussion about a distinction so thin, a flea can't squeeze through. 03:50, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

an award
Cheers, Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:45, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks a lot! You gave one to my sister first though!!! :P 05:34, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Your stance
What's your stance on 14 Warios on a baby carriage carrying Bowser Shells? 00:28, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OWWWWW-WAH/10. 00:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Civility and RationalWiki
as well

On EK's talk page, you make a good point, that the whole issue of civility in discussion on RW has not been resolved. I was thinking of firing up a debate page dealing with this issue, to give everyone interested a chance to vent, yawn or whatever. The ground rules of the proposed debate could be


 * Should civility be addressed in the Community Standards?
 * If the site standards are updated, how should the mob deal with violations of any guidelines?
 * Should the blocking policy be updated to address how violations are handled?
 * What role should the moderators have in guiding the mob towards addressing civility standards, if they are enacted?
 * Consider how our new Civility article should address this issue.

The goal of this activity should be to address this issue as a community, give everyone a chance to express their thoughts, decide if any actions such as policy updates are warranted, and start making those changes if necessary.

Before starting this I need to state that I abhor giant layers of bureaucracy and do not want to contribute towards the establishment of any such scheme. However I agree with you that this issue should be addressed and not left unresolved for long.

Thanks for any thoughts you can add. Cosmikdebris (talk) 19:31, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Questions on civil behavior have probably been as old as RationalWiki itself. Again, I recall proposing some sort of civility standards for RationalWiki but it was quickly shot down because being incivil was throughout RationalWiki's history and didn't hurt RationalWiki. We also don't want to rely on tone arguments too, and we're supposed to be the "snarky" wiki. But I've seen some harms of incivility already being users resigning over heated debate. I'm sure there are users that resigned because of a very heated argument. I don't know if aggressive debates are scaring away other users, believing it's a toxic place. I wish I can get their opinions, but we know we can't, they're long gone and don't want to engage. I also don't think civility policies will 100% prevent users from leaving over a heated arguments, but we don't know for sure. Anyhow, the idea of incivility ties with a bit of snark being used in the wiki; there are also questions if we should be snarky either see this essay by retired user Kazitor and this old forum post. But as brought up in the essay, RationalWiki:Constructive dialogue needs expansion I think, it's a good place to work from and incorporate some parts of the new civility article. I can't answer all questions right now since they're good questions, but just to provide a bit of a background here. Any guidelines we do implement on discourse aren't strict rules, they're only to help users identify problematic behavior, not really rules to be enforced. If there's a thread being escalated and inflammatory, any member of the mob can collapse or try to deescalate. This already happens in the wiki, but with guidelines, it's probably easier to identify and it should also help users figure out what's acceptable or not. And any guidelines will deal with concern trolls/tone trolling that try to abuse them, that will have to be covered. Moderators should be able to end discussions all together and their modhats usually carry more weight as perceived by the mob compared to a collapse. But I think anything mods can do, other sysops can too, such as removing/collapsing discussion that goes too far, but mods carry more clout in their words, since they have access to sysoprevoke and modlock, and have a modhat. 19:57, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I've viewed the status quo on civility more supports a case-by-base definition on handling the drama than making an official policy for it. Like, it's fine for us to be calling global warming denialists on the saloon a "fucking moron" (because they are. Stop.) but in the context of the Biden vs Bernie debate, even less so. 20:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Climate change denialists post here in bad faith the vast majority of the time (especially when the position is so untenable in reality they have to resort to being dishonest), so they'll fall under the hypothetical tone trolling or concern trolls case. Even then, the civility guidelines, I don't see as a hard rule but more of a toolset for users to rely on when dealing with behavior with regular users. The opinions of climate change deniers, no one cares. We're not going to lend them civility, and no one's going to protest. What matters more is the more contentious discussions. Perhaps that can be addressed. 20:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a big difference between directing incivility at a public figure and directing incivility at someone with whom one is arguing. I don't have any problem with the former as long as it's not libelous. The latter is not a way to convince people, win arguments, or keep good editors from leaving. I support anything that moves things forward on more civility, including Cosmikdebris' debate proposal (hopefully debate followed by a vote). My view as to when civility should apply is that it should apply to fellow-editors on RW. I would make an exception for chronic bad-faith (insincere) editors (and there is one still active) because insincerity is not civil. Bongolian (talk) 20:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That one still active has a terrible habit of riling people up recently and honestly, it baffles me why we still keep him around. Do we lose any value if we don't? I mean, the only thing I see that we're doing is posturing when in reality, he's a disruptive, bad-faith editor. 20:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

The whole debate about civility on RationalWiki seems to be centered on the Saloon Bar. I often use the bar analogy when reading the posts there, and deciding what's acceptable behavior or not. Maybe some of the people posting in the saloon bar think it's the but if I was in a bar and heard someone yelling

...they'd be rather quickly escorted out the door. If that kind of behavior is tolerated in a bar, then that's a bar where customers will leave and never come back. The Road House movie is a fairy tale, you know. No such places really exist. Cosmikdebris (talk) 00:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


 * "it was quickly shot down because being incivil was throughout RationalWiki's history and didn't hurt RationalWiki." How was that determined now? There seem to be a fair number these planks throughout the site:


 * I don't know why anyone would just leave a wiki promising to never come back. It sounds a bit passive aggressive to me. Could incivility have had anything to do with it? ...Ah, never mind. It'll be fine.Ariel31459 (talk) 03:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello?
Is this how I interact with other users? I'm new here. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 21:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you have anything to say to me, this is how you do it. You just leave a message on the talk page and I'll respond. You can interact with other users via RationalWiki:Saloon Bar or through several other talk pages, but a user talk page is the most direct way of doing it. You'll learn as you go, okay? :) 21:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) I registered a few days ago to add some stuff to your pages on The Bible. I happen to know a lot about that book and noticed ways in which I could improve some articles. I added a huge amount to Biblical prophecies, and made some drafts about a few individual books. I wrote one article that seems to have been accepted. I was wondering how I would submit a finished draft to the mainspace once it's adequate? Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 21:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you want to respond to a post, just use a colon on a new line. If you believe a draft is done, you can always move the page to mainspace ("relocate" under the more tab on the top of a page). This is so it keeps your edit history. We can handle the rest, such as linking and redirects and formatting. Please don't worry at all about "messing" something up as anything you do is easily and quickly fixed. Again, it's a learning experience, so just take anything you miss with stride and learn what others do to your pages. 21:43, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you <3 Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 01:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

A few questions
I was just wondering how much traffic this site gets. Like how many new visitors or total visits per day. I also wondered if there is a way to see how many views an article has? Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 00:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a documented amount though probably not up-to-date. I believe Our fundraisers usually meet the goal though, so that's enough to me. Also, it seems like you removed the earlier comments. Those should stay! It's easy for others to see what discussions I had with users, and I don't see a reason to remove it. I'm not a MediaWiki expert, but I tried checking our special pages but didn't find view statistics. 02:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I re-added the earlier discussion. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 02:39, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I did first, actually. If you want to readd what's removed, just check the edit history, find the revision before information was remove, and edit it to get the content that was removed. 02:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks. By the way, do you just moderate this site or do you add information? Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 02:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I do both. See RationalWiki:Moderators. I also contribute and add opinion like any other user, and I don't necessarily carry more clout than others just because I'm a moderator. 04:34, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So how did you first find RationalWiki? Also, I figured out how to add user boxes to my profile. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 06:32, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I found it through searches on logical fallacies. I liked the tone. I lurked here for a few years, edited a few pages, wasn't ever that active. I then registered and remained here and there but I got good feedback for my comments and edits, so here I am. 18:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice. I started hanging out a lot 5 months ago looking at pages on conspracy theories because they really bother me. I ended up registering so I could improve pages on religious texts, mainly Biblical errors. One half of the failed prophecies listed at Biblical prophecies were added by me. ☺️ Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 21:58, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Super Mario Anniversary
In case you missed it, there's a WaPO story on the Super Mario:. Bongolian (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd disagree with their characterization of Galaxy 2. Their levels aren't better; actually, Galaxy 2 rehashed a lot of levels or ideas from the first game; hot-cold mashup, Mario Squared, ball rolling, that purple bug stack being its own boss fight compared to the first game where they're just a slightly tougher enemy, recycled a segment from Beach Bowl; filler missions include Chimp Challenges, inane bowling, Fluzzard gimmick that replaced Manta Ray surfing. There's a painful amount of 2.5D segments for a 3D game and the soundtrack is vastly inferior, trying to capture what the original did (Sky Station trying to be like Good Egg, Fluffy Buff trying to be like Gusty Garden, Space Storm Galaxy trying to be like Bartlerock) while also just rehashing . Galaxy 2 kinda strayed from the original's spacey feel. It comes off as actually not having enough for a second game, but even then they got rid of powerups that could've benefited from new levels including the cool flight powerup and the ice powerup that lets you skate on lava, and they barely use the Boo. The boss fights are just awful being just easily exploitable weaknesses, too many times behind a boss (something the first game is guilty with the nut tail for the first boss and the giant spider having a giant green ass, and you set Bowser's tail on fire and hit him). Hell the first boss is another oversized mutant Dino Piranha but even more juvenile where you smack its ass.
 * Galaxy 2 is the most overrated game probably of all time given its Metacritic and people singing praises but never really going into specifics. It disappointed me and that's really crushing considering how they hype it up and fail to deliver.
 * Anyway the rest of the list seems fine though I like Super Mario Odyssey among the most of the main games, so I'd put it above Galaxy. 18:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Elizabeth Warren the native american
Hello, why did you remove elizabeth warrens native american ancestry from her rationalwiki page? --2001:8003:59DB:4100:691E:7F09:5CD9:4D28 (talk) 04:06, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * She was acting out of line, got called out, apologized. I don't see a need to drag that out. 04:12, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

You're a mod...
This shouldn't have to be pointed out to you. Please review the community standards regarding long term blocks. AceModerator 10:15, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Why are you telling another mod how she should mod? Are you the head moderator or something? Gunther8787 (talk) 14:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Do you think Mario could be a nazi?
Because he destroys everyone who doesn't suit him. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 23:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That can be said for any participant in a given free for all Mario Party game. 23:29, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

OK, you just convinced me that conservativism is always evil and that centrists are likewise bigoted
Hence I started my own Wikia: https://the-wikia-more-lefty-than-rationalwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Christianity 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 23:59, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Please stop. 00:01, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Are ya afraid of competition? Just to make it clear, I'm not joking, I really wanna be a true leftist and I want to ban Christianity and hate speech now. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 00:02, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Stop. Final warning. 00:04, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I will if you explain me what I did wrong. I don't wanna be just a coward, I wanna be the most for-left person ever. You're either totally left-wing or not at all. No compromise. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 00:05, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * IP editor, how old are you? 00:06, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * 22. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 00:08, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You act like you're 12. Are you just here to shitpost? 00:11, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I used to be a right-winger since 2017 but now I wanna be a leftist again. 2003:C3:3741:1600:28FF:9C33:7266:20FB (talk) 00:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I did explain. 00:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

My current state of mind after the past 10 days of drama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stw-YIdlz1s&list=PLkxcxcD_6f02nMPVupHGV3XbJpJQLCRzS&index=22&t=0s

01:33, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Capitalism
You protected the wrong version. Inshallah EK (talk) 17:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh allergies are keeping me up at 4 am today. 18:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Also it's just for one hour and at that point just use that time to stop edit warring, I don't want to escalate by already deciding what's the "right" version of the page. 18:41, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I laughed
Ace McFuckhead...very good but you can do better. AceModerator 02:43, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe try a rhyme - "Ace McWaste of Space" comes to mind. AceModerator 02:49, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I call you a cum-gargling queefsniffer.-- "Shut up, Brx." 03:03, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, no, no - try "Cum-gargling McQueefsniffer. AceModerator 03:05, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * How about "Ace McFuckface"? Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:32, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Na, too similar to LGM's moniker. Let's be creative like Brx. AceModerator 03:34, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ace McSploogeonhisface-- "Shut up, Brx." 04:01, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You're on a roll, Brx. Keep it up. AceModerator 04:02, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ha! I like that one. Cosmikdebris (talk) 04:03, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * AssMcFuckface is what I'm sticking with. 05:27, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It has a certain flair to it, I'll admit. But it doesn't mention semen.  Or copious amounts of it for that matter.  On his face.  Not that there's anything wrong with that-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:29, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that rolls off the tongue. Ass McWanked maybe. 05:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You want to know what really rolls of the tongue? Specifically Ace's tongue?  Semen-- "Shut up, Brx." 05:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah but only my own and only after I suck it out of my girlfriends mouth (I can play dirty with the best of them). AceModerator 05:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh so he's not wearing latex. 05:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah btw this got old quick. I'd like to for this to stop. 05:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've had my fun. I've been locked in mandatory isolation for 2 weeks in an Auckland hotel since returning to NZ after overseas travel so have too much time on my hands. AceModerator 05:40, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh sure. I dunno if you're sarcastic about the "laughing" part but that was me like in 4 in the morning with a headache. 05:41, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I just a gander at discord because of previously mentioned too much time on my hands. It was revealing. And I don’t care what you call me. AceModerator 05:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah by the way... it was nice to see someone mock my usage of the English language but as a freelance journalist and author I have a good grip on it. I just find editing on my phone here difficult sometimes. AceModerator 05:57, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah I forget what I just said though honestly I can't take it as well as I dish it. 06:12, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

You guys are better than devolving into middle school adolescent low brow humor, come on now. 05:42, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I made a list on creating insulting nicknames for other users before, just fyi. 05:43, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Rename request
Hello. I would like to be renamed, please. To Nyarlathotep. And if you could delete my user page that I may create a new one that would make me soooo happy-- "Shut up, Brx." 00:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually if you want to restore my sysop rights I'll just delete it myself. It's up to you-- "Shut up, Brx." 01:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The requested name appears to already exist. 16:22, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, how about... Hastur!-- "Shut up, Brx." 18:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * With or without exclamation lol-- "Shut up, Brx." 18:26, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * All right, I did it without exclamation because I figure that's what people will call you though the spirit will always be there. 19:10, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ty--Hastur! (talk) 19:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)--

Godless Raven
Was it really necessary to sysoprevoke and ban for three days? I'm not going to undo it - just wondering if it was needed after only 2 reverts. AceModerator 22:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, he isn't in sysop revoke. Although there's really only a single user that will grant him his sysop rights back.  Anyways he doesn't seem interested in resolving issues with discussion at this point.  He keeps insisting we coop him.   IMO he's not very subtle about his agenda and has proven to be altogether uncooperative.  Blocks of increasing lengths are warranted if he continues.  It's too bad, he's capable of providing decent mainspace edits, but he's too belligerent for what will always be a collaborative project--Hastur! (talk) 22:59, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, all I did was just remove rights and tempban. It wasn't just two reverts, user has been edit warring many times on multitudes of pages despite being told to stop at least twice on his own talk page. 23:21, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, just thought I’d jump in to see if it was needed. I’ll leave it in your capable hands. AceModerator 23:44, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Oxyaena
Did I miss a mod ruling on the subject of Oxyaena's tech role? I ain't seeing anything concrete but I'm not following everything and y'all don't index mod actions these days. 22:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably have to read this, and there's a site notice on it. I don't know if the vote is closed, but this is the vote, and there's an agreed provision that "Appointing techs should be handled through both the mob and by the moderators." Can you review it and see if what we're doing is in line, and make sure the vote is closed or not? 22:43, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * People have told me when this blows over they'll reappoint tech for me. I was the one who removed my tech as a sign of good faith, remember? — Oxyaena Harass  02:24, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is pathetic. You've lost the community's trust, Oxyaena.  It's only going to get worse hereon-out--Hastur! (talk) 02:31, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I really don't see that happening Oxy. I for one will be hard line in making sure you aren't a tech anymore. Sorry dude, it ain't personal - you just lack the maturity. It will go to a vote, it won't be unilaterally granted. And I am guessing you'll lose. AceModerator 03:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I voluntarily relinquished tech status as a sign of good faith, literally there was no reason for me to do so other than that. Objecting to a series of shitty edits on the anarchism article and then being made out to be the bad guy. I've been unilaterally desysopped twice, and yet I get shit when I did that to Raven. I unblock and resysop GC, and somehow I deserve punishment because of that. — Oxyaena Harass  07:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry man, writings on the wall. You have behaved so poorly that you don’t deserve those rights. You’ve pretended to be a de-facto mod, you abuse anyone who disagrees with you, you block and vandal bin people on a whim, when questioned about your behaviour you throw your toys and resign (sometimes resigning several times over consecutive days), you tolerate no dissent and think you have carte blance to behave how ever you like because you edit the main space. Sorry bud, you’ve burnt your bridges. Get some years behind you - you have a long way to go. AceModerator 08:14, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You're utterly technically incompetent and managed to make being a tech about your own self interest, and as heavy-handed and dishonest as you are incapable of self-reflection. Since you're pursuing this, I have no choice but to come as hard for you as you came for me when you thought you could lie and push a stranger around. Literally the only thing you did as a tech that wasn't a knowing abuse, like protecting pages and suppressing edits to moderator, was use the edit filters, which I'll now have to demonstrate you were unsuited for and did poorly. You haven't even used them since last year, so why exactly do you insist on being a tech other than the unelected power? It's not to help the site. You're unable to. Nutty Roux (talk) 11:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You don't know me, firstly, and secondly, all that I did was permissible under the tech guidelines, and I've substantially stopped the excessive blocking; even Ace, months ago, complemented me on that. What have you done recently besides bitch and moan? — Oxyaena Harass  17:48, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Oxy, you have failed to see that if hadn't voluntarily resigned, you would have been pushed out of the tech position by the mob. This is evidenced by the overwhelming support for two changes in tech qualifications that probably would not have been implemented if not for your behavior. You are still a sysop. You now have the chance to self-reflect and make your experience here a positive one for yourself and your fellow sysops: make consistent quality edits, try to avoid picking fights, try to accept that other people are entitled to their own ideologies within the scope of RW's mission, and use non-ideological citations when possible. Bongolian (talk) 17:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see a lot of benefits for you being a tech in the first place. Other users know what they're doing in MediaWiki terms. I know I don't know that much, I'm better at community interaction and creating pages. I don't have tech rights. I can choose to be a tech but I figure I won't actually practice much with that. I don't know why you want additional rights and express bitterness at not being a mod a few times. 19:11, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This wiki's too tolerant of trolls and fascists. I run for mod because I was told straight to my face that harassment was okay here. I like this wiki, but if you're gonna tell me that it's okay for harassers to be here, then I don't know why you pride yourselves on being pro-social justice. I want to make this community less toxic and more welcoming, I am aware that I am probably too heavy-handed and zealous, but would you rather RW go back to the utter shithole it was back in the day? I was responsible for rooting out several nuisance and serious problem trolls, while the community dithered away navel-gazing. UT, TDM2, and Morris are all gone because of me. You expect me to be less hostile when I've been harassed and attacked on here for so long? I ran out of patience a long time ago, I guess this is what happens when you do. — Oxyaena Harass  19:17, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * But how does having tech or being a mod give you that difference in leverage in removing these people? Even I can't remove them on my own, I still had to gauge the community to make these decisions. You claim credit for removing them, but it was a consensus vote out of successful persuasion of supporters, I (supporter for removing Unlicensed Thinker, The Dark Master, range bannning Morris) took part in that support as other users. Nevertheless you don't need to be a mod to have people agree to remove them as much as you need to be a persuasive, cooperative, patient user. 19:25, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * All I ask for is tech back, you all like to ignore that I have been improving, and I only edit warred with Raven after his initial instigation. Whenever edit wars take place I do raise them at their respective talk pages, but people refuse to discuss things. It's frustrating. (Having tech also helps prevent being blocked and desysopped unilaterally multiple times in a row, the perpetrator of which still has their rights and wasn't even rebuked, while I gave up tech voluntarily as a sign of good faith during the Raven fiasco, I was even promised my rights would be untouched, by Ace no less). — Oxyaena Harass  19:27, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I also cooperated with said person, gave them tech in the first place. The claim that I've "never" helped this wiki is a goddamn lie, and shame on for slandering me as such. — Oxyaena  Harass  19:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The only reason I am so hostile nowadays is because I've tried reasoning with Ace, I've tried reasoning with Brx and Helena and shit, BUT NOTHING WORKS. It's like talking to a brick wall, Ace just kept stonewalling me, even as I tried to reason with him, our guidelines even say they're not rules, merely advice. He refuses to go with consensus, and he's now mod, and I`m not. You've all expressed frustrations with Ace before, but whenever I try to propose we do something about it, you people keep on dithering. Enough. — Oxyaena Harass  19:35, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no such thing as a "non-ideological citation." — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  19:37, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The fact you’re want tech back so badly makes it questionable. Why do you want it so bad? AceModerator 19:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've renamed users by request, I`m always punctual when doing so. I`m always monitoring the wiki, so I`m always one of the first people to respond to vandalism and trolling. Ask, for instance. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  19:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I 100% guarantee you that a month or two away from the wiki and you'll see some significant improvements to your mental health. You probably won't even want to come back here--Hastur! (talk) 19:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)


 * You don’t need to be a tech to respond to vandals and trolls while mods can rename users. So why do you want to be a tech so badly? AceModerator 19:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I suspect it's some sort of identity/prestige thing. Which they ought to be working out in therapy not RW.--Hastur! (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Oxy, you went to my talkpage as late as yesterday to harass me. You're a terrible person, you're toxic and you're a serial harasser. You are the core of the problem on RW: Harassers and bad faith actors like yourself make this website less enjoyable to use. You can use your alleged mental illness to shield responsibility or criticism, but you're genuinely a bad person and anyone who defends your actions in here should be ashamed. For what it's worth, most people in here don't seem to like you either or wanting to give you tech rights because you're an abusive shithead. Whenever I get the chance to ban you, I will. 19:48, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Since when did I harass you? I merely left a comment on your talk page pointing out your false equivalency for calling anarchism equal to fascism. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  19:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Godless Raven, leave the personal attacks out of it. 19:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The standard treatment for her problems contraindicates agreeing to her request.Ariel31459 (talk) 20:04, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oxy, I don't know who told you that harassment was OK on RW. It was never my understanding. It was coopable as far back as I can remembers. Civility is now effectively codified, so there's no question that it's coopable. Also, fact-checking sources are not an 'ideology' unless one is of the conspiracy mindset. Bongolian (talk) 20:09, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh cool, so if I coop oxy for harassment, will it be taken seriously? Because so far all I get is a "nuh uh". 20:12, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I PROPOSE
That all disputes on this wiki be handled on your talk page. You don't mind if I relocate the coop here, do you?--Hastur! (talk) 20:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure. Make sure you bring the Discord chat logs too while you're at it. 20:31, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Solutions
Tell me what they are. I cannot engage with either of them, when they accuse me of bad faith for simple disagreement. And when I point out the problems, they refuse to engage. When I seek resolution to keep the peace, I am accused of bad faith. I am at the point where I feel leaving the wiki to die from their abuses is better than seeking to stop said abuses. 21:24, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is very difficult and frustrating, though edit warring, even to prove a point, just makes it harder for me to lend you advice or otherwise try to keep a discussion going. I would say, even if Raven is creating a revision you don't like, tolerate it, let it stand for the time being and ask. The thing about Godless Raven, I observe, is that even that question is interpreted in bad faith, making it difficult to cooperate. I do think this is grounds for a coop case but I can't make a decent summary of what's going on because I'm not really involved in the content so I don't know who's making a correct revision or not. 21:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You would do the wiki a massive favor by leaving, since you are dishonest and toxic. 21:46, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is not true, Raven. He tried to cooperate with you and you seem to engage with him in the worst faith, which is a really bad approach in any sort of collaborative project. 21:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * lol yeah, thats why he blocked me and EK repeatedly. TRU 21:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

GrammarCommie
I left a comment about GrammarCommie here on your page but he reverted it probably because he hates me or something. I'm pretty sure that it's the site rules to revert other established users comments about you, particularly critical comments about you on a mods talk page. Anyway my comment (to GC) was this


 * You can't even let us work on a draft without edit warring to stop it. You make it clear over and over again that you have personal animosity against raven, and that you are above the site rules. This could not be more simple. Back off. EK (talk) 21:28, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Really my point is that the conflict exists solely because GC won't stop, and even after I got involved to try and defuse the situation, he simply desysoped me and said categorically that only mods have the authority to tell him to follow the site rules. Which is fine I suppose but it means that the conflict has esculated a lot now as GC is fighting me now, not just Raven. EK (talk) 22:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a bit crazy that we're having edit warring and mod protection over a draft article. I propose instead that that the warring parties can each edit two or more draft articles. At some point after all parties have come to completion or at some time limit, whichever comes first, we can have a vote as to which version forms the basis of the new anarchism page. Disputed edits of the new page by the losing party/parties should be considered edit warring if said party persists. Bongolian (talk) 23:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Does "Work in Progress" not mean shit?
Korean bitch reverted all of the work I put into Japan again and you just fucking let it stand. I am flamingly pissed off right now. I put all of that effort into crafting an interesting and relevant piece and I get shit on. 00:22, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The issue seems to have been resolved now. 00:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Calm down, Duce. I was off eating. He seems to have a language barrier, so extra patience is advised. 00:44, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Duce, can't you just... finish it in your user space?--Hastur! (talk) 02:36, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmm, yeah sandbox to overhaul pages is a good idea too. 02:41, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Change name
Hi, I wanted to change my name from Godless Raven to GR, if possible. Thank you. 11:16, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That can be done ye. EK (talk) 11:19, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. <3 11:29, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey
It appears I can no longer edit the coop, as I am not a sysop. Do you wish to demote me? If you don't, that's okay, *I understand why!-Flandres (talk) 23:01, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Done--Hastur! (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks!-Flandres (talk) 23:09, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually I went two years before Cat made me sysop. I don't think I've ever used the tools once. Shabi  DOO  23:12, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a nice gesture anyhow. 23:32, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

apologies for the inconvenience. I wouldn't lock the coop like that on a normal day, but... 23:27, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah of course. I would have sys-oped Fandres it Hastur hadn't already done it. Was surprised it hadn't happened already. Shabi  DOO  23:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

22 day ban
Hey man, did you instigate this on your own because I don't see the votes for it. AceModerator 00:50, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ? Can you clarify? Holding a vote? 00:52, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You blocked GR for 22 days yeah? AceModerator 00:53, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't. I blocked him for 9 hours because he was readding votes I kept removing. I did sysoprevoke to prevent him from unbanning himself. 00:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah right, my mistake. What was the readding votes business about then? Why were they being removed (I don't have the patience nor stomach to want to read pages of coop gibberish - just something in a sentence. AceModerator 00:57, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * He was voting himself to get banned and I removed them because I did mistakenly suspect he tried voting again but he kept readding them and adding more martyr baiting so I just wanted to keep it removed. 00:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK - not trying to question your behaviour, just wanted explanation. AceModerator 01:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

The ‘cord
I think I just got kicked from the Ratwiki Support channel? 19:57, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds like they're tearing it down. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  19:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not on there either. 20:02, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Dysk nuked the place. Thunderclapper (talk) 20:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Discord
Did one of you kick me out? AceModerator 22:06, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ah - something happened I see. What’s going on? AceModerator 22:07, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Dysk lost faith in the wiki and nuked the place (he, EK and GR also resigned from the wiki and EK/GR now have garbo usernames. All three are in sysoprevoke too). Duce made a new one, just rejoin on the RationalWiki:Discord link if you want to. 22:10, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Dysk closed it, that's all I know. But a new one opened, s'yeah. 22:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

The coop's done
But the difference between 1 year and indef blocks always seemed next to immaterial in terms of wiki stability, but generous enough to allow the occasional reformed troublemaker. I get the feeling GR was maybe a young teen full of anger. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 02:09, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think for young teens, it usually takes the more than a year to really grow out of it, at least from my experience. We'll see how this person comes back, because, well, they can and then say they changed. I wish the best for Raven out there. 03:31, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Nomination
—cosmikdebris talk stalk 14:48, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Hastur
Would you like to explain why you blocked this user? Was it serious or a joke? Kiko4564 (talk) 22:22, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Serious. This person has been nothing but a nuisance lately. A lot of recent behavior has been on Discord (basically acting like a complete dick to people (furries on Discord) for longer than 20 minutes, but he decided to continue doubling down on his behavior and I just cannot leave that without a response. 22:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You can get blocked on the wiki for alleged discord behavior?--Hastur! (talk) 22:34, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mario. Any chance you can strip him of his sysop privileges and block him for longer? He's back! :O Kiko4564 (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I can't, that has to go through community vote. 23:22, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Why are you blocking someone for Discord shite? And who cares about “being a dick to furries”? 23:27, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * He was acting like a prick on Discord and he's doubling down on that behavior here in this passive-aggressive fashion. It's not *just* for Discord behavior, he's acting like a douche on the Discord, he was told to cut that shit out for way too much, and he's continuing what he's doing on Discord to here because he thinks he can get away with that. Also, maybe you should try talk to some of furries on the Discord before you just write off their complaints like that. 23:32, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree.--Delibirda (talk) 08:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Accidental move of RationalWiki:Sandbox
Hi Mario, it's me, Kiko4564. I've accidentally moved this page to RationalWiki:Sandbox on wheels, I assumed that the sandbox couldn't be moved and that my move would fail. I quickly reversed myself but have left some pointless redirects behind. Do you mind deleting them for me? These are the following: RationalWiki talk:Sandbox on wheels/vandalism RationalWiki talk:Sandbox on wheels/Archive1 RationalWiki talk:Sandbox on wheels RationalWiki:Sandbox on wheels/Holydaze/0509 Thank you. Kiko4564 (talk) 22:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. 22:45, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * any chance you can also take care of the above user evading his block please? He needs summary desysopping for that in my view. Kiko4564 (talk) 22:51, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We do not desysop people without putting them through the Chicken Coop and having a community vote on it. I suggest you familiarize yourself with our Community Standards. As for Hastur, he blocked himself immediately afterwards. 22:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I am very well behaved--Hastur! (talk) 23:02, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Bullshit. — <font color="Purple">Oxyaena <font color="Red">Harass  04:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Oxy, based on this shitty edit from him. Also Hastur unblocked himself 2 minutes later. In fact, he's been trolling that function for 30 minutes aswell. Gunther1987 (talk) 10:53, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Although I agree that it is a shitty (quality-wise) edit, it isn't misbehavior; after all, it is a public sandbox and that can easily be undone if someone wants to.  10:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I forgot to ask that RationalWiki:Sandbox on wheels be deleted, can someone do it for me please? Kiko4564 (talk) 19:37, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Bongolian (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I screwed up the To Do list
Hi I need help. I screwed up my to do list entry here https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:To_do_list/Suggestions and when I fixed it, I noticed that it glitched someone else's entry of "James Lindsay" with 7 votes, and now I need really need help to fix this mess quickly. I've tried everything.

DemSocks (talk) 16:13, 12 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I fixed the issue. There was a missing close vote tag on the entry above James Lindsay. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 16:29, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome back
Welcome back Mario, I hope you enjoyed your wikibreak. Any chance you can delete Draft:Hinokitiol please? It was a broken redirect so I blanked it as there are no tags on here to my knowledge. Did I do the right thing? Kiko4564 (talk) 22:14, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You could either change the redirect itself or move the page without leaving a redirect. The latter (which creates a redlink) is a sysop-granted power, something you probably didn't have. Page blanking does not delete the page, by the way, only creates an empty page. If you have sysop functions, then you can delete the page. 22:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't have anything to change it to anyway so that wasn't an option as it had become a broken redirect when the page that it redirected to was deleted. I'm not a sysop by the way, thanks for explaining that nevertheless though. Kiko4564 (talk) 22:32, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Essay talk:Poof
Just for your information I have changed this redirect as it was a double redirect, which I had fixed. I have restored my edit on that basis. Kiko4564 (talk) 22:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

RationalWiki:2020 board of trustees election/Election booth
Can you delete this page for me please? Kiko4564 (talk) 14:10, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi.
I have been under a break from Discord, and I was forced to delete my account. So I will not be active there for a while. If you need someone to talk to, do it in my talk page. Tell Xana too that myaccount will be deleted.--Delibirda (talk) 06:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Block me for 12 hours
Before I start a fight with Dysk because his friend left and it made him angry. 00:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If Dysk keeps up with the spiel then I'll probably end up blocking 'em too. 00:44, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Hey
Since I am not savvy with the zero-second blocks, I just wanted to apologizes for my conduct on the all things in moderation page. Reading back I feel like a smug jerk.-Flandres (talk) 02:49, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Noted. I feel you don't have to apologize though I figure I'll eventually see that discussion and take some action. The zero second block was mostly because you said I wouldn't be happy to see this. I wasn't, but not at you. We're coo. 03:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * So is Raven to be considered permabanned? 04:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. He asked to be permabanned under GR (before he thought he'd be clever by using a new account with his old name) so I took the axe and destroyed the bridge, though he also destroyed parts of his own bridge with his angry stomping. He's friends with the Lava Bubbles now. 05:04, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Thanks for the clarification. I blocked him, but I didn’t ban him since I don’t think I have the authority. 05:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well if you hit the P Switch before I used the axe, you'll have no complaints from me. He's hopefully not going to crawl back as a dry monster, considering he's already on probation from coop case. Still good to get a confirmation. 05:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

sysoprevoke
Just so we're clear, there is a procedure involved for sysoprevoke. I recall, it was somewhat controversial when it was first created. As a newly minted member of the "old guard" (hilariously enough, I used to largely be opposed to the "old guard" when I first joined the wiki. I suppose I'm more inclined to care about things that don't matter when I'm unemployed and have extra free time on my hands), I do consider it important that the power not be abused. Perhaps you feel differently. Either way, I'd feel remiss not to bring it to your attention.--Hastur! (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * First, Raven wanted to be indef banned. I made sure of that. Then decided to come back under another account to be disruptive and flaming others. Indef ban made, sysoprevoke reinstated. Also keep in mind that Raven, having barely survived a coop, is already on thin ice. If you have a problem with my moderation, then bring that up than try to remind me. I understand abuse of power. What I do want to express however is individual discretion. This could've been dragged through yet another tiring coop case or this can be swiftly be taken care of, after all that trouble Raven racked up and was given far too many chances to improve. I myself gave him several. 07:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Raven was forced to make a new account as he lost his password and did not have an associated email. While that's a little embarrassing for the allegedly tech-savvy zoomers and millenials, I feel it  would be cruel to hold that against him.  I'm also unsure as to what you mean by "barely survived a coop."  It seems he cooped Oxyaena and failed miserably, true.  But "barely survived" doesn't make sense to me.  Of course, English being my second language, it's possible I've misunderstood you.  Anyways, Raven has expressed a change of heart.  Predictable, I know.  Personally should I ever permanently leave this site I do not see myself making any grandiose announcements or gestures.  But our fellow humans are ever so fallible, I'm afraid.  Regardless, I do not believe any coop cases are necessary (unless you believe that Raven has violated the community standards- but bear in mind that whatever he did there are other users still active who have committed the same or worse offenses and have not yet seen consequences), or that Raven's behavior has been so egregious.  And I would kindly ask you to remove him from sysoprevoke and allow me to unblock him.  This is not me questioning you as moderator.  If I were to doubt you as moderator I would not be subtle about it.  I am not a subtle person, as I'm sure you would agree--Hastur! (talk)  07:26, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We had already established that users who leave lose Sysop automatically. He lost it as a matter of policy. He won't get it back until he has earned it. Second of all after leaving in a hissy fit after making demands on the community he could have used his new account to make amends with the community and start afresh. Instead he insulted users, suggested the community drive established users away, created a user hit-list on his user page, implied two productive users do nothing but crap on the saloon and ignored two warnings to stop his shittery. He barely survived his last coop (which was close to a permaban). Perhaps you've already forgotten it. He was on probation (perhaps you forgot about that too). I don't know in what universe an admin would be out of line to send the person packing. If you think another user deserves it then start up a coop. LGM did the right thing as a Raven being cooped was only a matter of time anyways. Shabi  DOO  07:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * First of all usage of sysoprevoke is pretty clear, it needs to be implemented through community vote (use as an emergency might be acceptable but this was hardly an emergency). And banning him for losing his temper seems excessive, if you ask me.  I don't know that there is precedent for that.  If anything, we're more inclined to be forgiving of such meltdowns, if an editor's overall behavior has been constructive (you may find this surprising, but my personal opinion is that Raven has been constructive).  Anyways, he's expressed some desire to come back.  He had to vent, you see.  Sometimes, we all need to vent.  These are difficult times for many of us.  I myself am unemployed as the result of the the systemic incompetence the US has faced in response to this pandemic.  Thankfully I've reached a point in life where it's easy to just let things roll off of me.  Not all of us are so lucky, however.  So it's important to be understanding.  Truly, if you took the time to know him you would recognize that while he is imperfect (like the rest of us disgusting humans), he is a good person and a good editor.  He is a contrarian, I will admit (or as he calls himself, an iconoclast).  He feels it is quite important for us to recognize the flaws in our idols (or perhaps, true to his chosen appellation, he would rather we not have idols at all).  This does put him at odds with other editors (myself included).  But it is a mistake of perspective to see him as anything other than a constructive editor who furthers the dialectics that lead to us improving mainspace.  Take a look here, for instance.  He makes good edits.  He is a good faith user.  Making good edits is not part of some elaborate plan to troll the wiki.  And he is genuinely willing to listen to reason.  But he does, I'll admit, react poorly to hostile environments. And I don't see how we can deny that a hostile environment has not been created for him numerous times during his tenure here.  Anyways, I've been talking to him and now that he's had a chance to vent he is expressing the desire to come back.  I believe it is worth allowing him--Hastur! (talk)  08:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We simply see things very differently. I don't believe for a second he is sorry or would change. Shabi  DOO  09:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't agree for a smidge about all positives you overplay and all the downsides you seriously underplay as well as shrugging off his behavior as "well everyone has that" and how dare everyone doesn't want him around and be nice to him". 00:33, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Procedure wasn't followed and the user in question is challenging this. I'm taking steps to undo it per user request and the fact that I can. Y'all are at liberty to either let it lay, or start another round of stupidity at the Chicken Coop as you wish. 14:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

consider the following
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIyNIrUzVg 17:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh my god did someone make a game out of my recent activity on RationalWiki? 17:51, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey have you played the new Paper Mario? I'm watching Vinny Vinesauce play it and it seems like a return to form writing-wise. Not too sure about the new gameplay though. 20:45, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Paper Mario: Origami King? Writing-wise, I hear Color Splash's excellent and on par with the first two games. The new gameplay is hit or miss for players, but it's not like the first two games. I don't have Origami King. Yet. 20:51, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Origami King's music is pretty kickass. 20:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I hear they even somehow put eurobeat music in there. Color Splash's also pretty good. They have a breakdancing piggybank. 21:24, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I enjoyed Origami King for it's writing and music, although with the writing, it's rather obvious that they more or less are hitting the ceiling of the "can't have original characters" bar that they've been put with, which feels like it hampers the creativity. The gameplay is more complex, but it really doesn't have the same depth as the first three games. The combat kinda flattens out quickly once you get the patterns down pat, and then the enemies turn into a downright nuisance. It's in that regard far worse than Sticker Star or Origami King, since those games at least still had strategy in them (even if it wasn't all that great). With Origami King, once you have a puzzle solved, you've won the battle basically if you use the right version of the weapon (usually the one that's unlocked in the in-game shop at the time). Similarly, actually taking damage feels too much like a punishment due to the severity of it. It's a bit of a mixed bag imho, but overall pretty decent. 21:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

RationalMedia Foundation 2020 election
Congratulations on your election to the foundation board. If I can be of any assistance, please feel free to ask. I have the credentials for updating the foundation's website at rationalweb.org if that site requires any updates. Regards, —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:37, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks cosmikdebris, for keeping the tab on this despite all the drama going on. 01:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Oi
I'll stop if you insist. That said, I challenge you to find where in the community standards that repeat blocking is prohibited. Not to mention, where in the same document unilateral change of userrights is permitted... if it comes down to an argument... up to you. 18:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Just don't do repeat blocking and work out something. Treat it like an edit war. It might not be spelled out against standards, but consider the outcome of constantly blocking someone and that person telling you to stop. 18:18, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * So you just admit that you used your mod powers to unilaterally remove someone's user rights without a violation of CS? 18:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * its not against the rules and block wars are traditional here anyway, plus you removed tech which is unrelated to blocking 18:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * She also removed sysop without due process. Which I gave D back. 18:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * RationalWiki:Blocking_policy
 * Some naughty sysops issue "joke blocks" on their fellow sysops, lasting a few seconds to a couple minutes in length (although overuse of minute-plus blocks, or blocks against sysops in the middle of editing, are never appreciated by the blockee, and are rather frowned upon).
 * Also, stay out Ze and GR. 18:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * it wasn't a joke block they said. also i haven't seen you give dysk the userrights back yet so no I won't stay out of it. 18:31, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Where does it say "if overused, tech rights might be removed"? 18:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * In addition to the block war claim, (which that was the policy on the block war) In some extreme cases, where a sysop is being particularly disruptive, another sysop may need to "promote" them as soon as possible to prevent further vandalism or abuse, but they must then discuss their decision with others at the Chicken Coop page or All Things in Moderation, to determine whether the user should remain de-sysoped. <Right there too.
 * Again, stay out Ze and GR (especially you Ze, for making an unreasonable condition). I can argue that GR violated community standards by reinstating the rights. Tech rights are effectively sysops with more tools agreed on by the community. Removing tech and sysop is for enforcement, otherwise, D could simply reinstate rights and continue blocking. 18:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * No abuse took place. Also: you sysoprevoked me without a coop nor an ATIM notice. Guess who violated CS here? 18:36, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Stay out. Answer my questions in the coop, Raven. 18:37, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ze and GR are fully entitled to hold you accountable for your actions as appropriate. You will address both with respect, and kindly acknowledge their involvement in this matter is legitimate, as both are established members of the RationalWiki community. 18:44, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * To be clear, she has yet to answer for her sysoprevoke on me without proper cause. I don't know how to start a procedure on mod abuses, Dysk. 18:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Answer my questions, GR. I already answered my reasoning for sysoprevoke, but you keep denying that. 18:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I got D his privileges back by the way. Answer my questions in the coop, GR. 18:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Mod abuse is as vague as every other rule, and I have no burning desire to write a case on the subject at this time. Not to mention the fact that the matter was resolved. It could, no doubt be litigated at the next Mod election, coming soon, if anyone really cared or still remembers by then. 18:56, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand. 19:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Like I said, it's fully within the Community Standards for a sysop to reinstate a block, if said block is removed. It's certainly not in the Community Standards to remove Tech user-rights, without warning or prior comment, for, no good reason. I likely would have stopped attempting to enforce my block if someone who wasn't the blockee had asked, of course nobody did, certainly not you. So if you don't mind? 18:40, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Think about the spirit of the law. Tech rights are virtually sysop rights+ and I need to make sure stripping privileges actually work. You should've stopped even if you personally don't like the blockee. 18:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The spirit of the law doesn't permit much flexibility, certainly not enough to consider completely different categories of action as equivalent. I'm fully aware our Community Standards here are toothless and rife with loopholes, fixing that is a job nobody wants to do... 18:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What you're thinking about is letter of the law. I don't see how revoking sysop and tech are two completely different categories of action. They're both privileges given to a user in trust they will use them to better the community. In fact techs are effectively sysops with extra tools. I only removed your tech rights to make sure you stopped block warring, and I reinstated your rights once you stopped and you promised to stop. 18:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The spirit of the law is the intent, the purpose the drafting legislators had. It seems to me improbable, those drafting the relevant section of the community standards on edit-warring, intended to cover block-warring. The reason behind this thought, is that block-warring is a subcategory of administrative user interaction, edit-warring is a subcategory of the consensus building process between editors. There is no overlap in scope. Additionally, RationalWiki's Community Standards are based on Wikipedia guidelines, in which block-warring is a seperate section, categorized under wheel-warring. Mysteriously our Community Standards neglect to mention wheel-warring, perhaps that is part of why it's commonplace here. All that said, it's irrelevant as this was resolved swiftly. I'm one of those people who enjoys arguing for the sake of arguing, I could go on but will let those involved, do more important things than this. 19:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

My bad.
Sorry for (badly) editing the Spring Heeled Jack page, I´ll try to be more careful with my edits in the future. ._. (talk) 20:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't feel bad. The edits you made made the verbs not agree with each other (past tense and present tense disagreement) and the spelling error wasn't really a spelling error, and you added just an unnecessary adverb. It's fine, though. 20:56, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, thanks. I´m glad I didn´t destroy society or anything.._. (talk) 22:23, 30 August 2020 (UTC)