Talk:Feminism/Archive7

I thought these people didn't like trigger warnings
HAHAHAHA ClickerClock (talk) 11:33, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm triggered by buggy Wikimedia software.--Kugelschreiber (talk) 11:36, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm triggered by people placing new topics at the top of pages ;) -  Kitsunelaine  「SJW Illuminati shill.」 11:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Everydayfeminism is a shit website for feminist articles, much like TheMarySue. Then again there are occasionally good writers among all the clickbait tier "6 reasons hygiene is sexist" articles, who desperately need to find a good outlet, but can't.  Much like UK papers - all rightwing shite funding a literal monster - occasionally has a good writer on board who isn't a fucking UKIPPER. Keter (talk) 13:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Are "moderate feminists" really all that moderate?
When I think of a political moderate, I think of someone who actually advocates for a middle-of-the-road policy, and would oppose anything that deviates from that in either direction. So, a moderate feminist would support equality between the sexes, and would oppose any policy that treats either men or women unfairly.

Do moderate feminists actually speak out in opposition to policies that treat men unfairly? Or do they simply refrain from advocating those policies? I don't usually hear too many moderate feminists say, "Hey wait, you radical feminists have gone too far, and now you're starting to actually screw over men, rather than just demanding equality with them."

By the way, I suspect part of the reason why there's so much disagreement about whether feminism has gone too far, is that some men are affected more by it than others. Some men have too much of their power taken away, while other men don't have enough of their power taken away. An example would be, there are some innocent guys getting falsely accused of rape, but on the other hand there are some guilty guys getting away with rape. The two don't really balance each other out and make everything okay between the sexes. Men&#39;s Rights EXTREMIST (talk) 11:57, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * "Do moderate feminists actually speak out in opposition to policies that treat men unfairly?" Yes. In fact, so do radical feminists. Glad to have cleared that up for you. If some men are more affected by feminism than others, it's because they are arseholes who revelled in too much power to begin with. Queexchthonic murmurings 12:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Really? So for example, David Letterman is an "arsehold who reveled in too much power to begin with" and that's why he ended up getting slapped with a temporary restraining order and having to pay a team of lawyers to fight against the permanent restraining order? It was feminists who lobbied to make it so easy to get restraining orders, that any nutcase could get one against just about anyone (including celebrities they've never met), without needing to show any evidence that they're actually in danger.


 * And the men who got denied the right to see their child more than every other weekend, just because they have a penis and the person who frivorced them has a vagina, and therefore the court assumed they couldn't raise the child as well? They're all arseholes too? Okay.


 * Personally, I haven't stumbled across a lot of moderate feminists, much less radfems, addressing such issues. Men&#39;s Rights EXTREMIST (talk) 17:07, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's called confirmation bias. You may want to stop using "Feminist Hate" threads in /b/ as your data set for moderate feminist.  While i figure your username is somewhat snarky, i get the feeling that you are already predisposed against feminism of any type (as long as it's not coming from Paglia or Hoft-Summers), so it's not hard to see why you have such a hard time believing that moderate feminist exist, when the ones you notice most are the ones that reinforce your own stereotypes. Petey Plane (talk) 17:59, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Kind of that and a No true Scotsman. Every feminist is guilty of whatever one does, says, or even implies taken to the most extreme end while MRA's that say or do bad things (including leaders) aren't representative of the whole.  I doubt he has met any moderate people in general, let alone feminists that are his monomania, as the only people who I can think of wanting to get in a confrontation like this in the real world are other crazy assholes with anger problems.  -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 20:04, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * What's an example of an MRA saying or doing a bad thing? My issue with MRAs is usually that they've taken too many feminist stands (in other words, they're not radical enough in a truly pro-MRA way). I don't see any problem with what they've said or done with regard to women.


 * Oh wait, there is one MRA issue that affects women that I don't agree with, and that's when they want to badmouth women who have sex with teenage boys as though they were child molesters. Oh, and I also don't agree that women who hit their husbands should be severely punished, or that it should be considered grounds for divorce in most cases. But those kinds of MRA views are feminist-influenced (really, they're just taking feminist ideas to their logical conclusions, and going double blue pill) so once again my issue is with feminism, not true MRA-ism. We might even regard MRAs as something like moderate feminists. It's one of the reasons I don't regard myself as an MRA (really, I should probably change my username to "Red Pill Fundamentalist" or something; I can't remember what I was thinking when I chose this name). Men&#39;s Rights EXTREMIST (talk) 17:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You honestly can't think of anything an MRA has said or done that is bad? So all the rape apologetics, pretty much everything espoused by Theodore "Vox Day" Beale or Roosh V, or Elliot Rodgers (a MRA/"incel" who went on a shooting spree)? How about the MRA movement to de-criminalise marital rape, or the various harassment campaigns (involve rape & death threats) against feminist bloggers & even politicians? Have you honestly never heard about any of that? Maybe you're pretending they never happened? Or do you possibly think that none of that is "bad"??68.80.110.244 (talk) 19:52, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The guy you're replying to has left. I can't say I mourn his departure.--JorisEnter (talk) 20:01, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

bell hooks
Can I start a long pointless debate on whether we should spell Ms hooks in her preferred lower-case format, or with big patriarchal letters? Anyone wanna edit war over this? Annquin (talk) 15:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Good point - my source also writes it in lowercase, as does Wikipedia. I've fixed it now. Thanks for pointing it out! :) Reverend Black Percy (talk) 16:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

RationalWiki link included in a /r/starterpacks for white feminists that don't care much about minorities
https://np.reddit.com/r/starterpacks/comments/598ggq/white_neoliberal_feminist_who_thinks_they_are/ 13:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Finally, recognition! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:12, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

srsly?
opening sentence: "Feminism refers to any ideology that seeks female supremacy over men". no subsequent sentence matches up with this nutshell in any way, so it doesn't even appear to be badly placed sarcasm. maybe a "minor" edit slipped in by a shitwit? and of course there's the term-equivalence-fail of 'female' and 'men'. Icculus (talk) 17:00, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, a bit of vandalism that slipped through the net. Christopher (talk) 17:04, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Seems too biased
Feminism isn't like pseudoscience. For pseudoscience, any perfectly rational individual will laugh and call bullshit. But feminism- at least, the modern variety- isn't so straightforward. I personally despise it because it has completely broken down and has no clear goal at best, and is going for fascism at worst (see: Anita Sarkeesian saying that people calling her out when she lies constitutes violence against women).

This article does not seem to provide a reasonable view of why people might disagree, and seems to glorify the movement and classify and dissenters as stupid/evil/assholes. And the Antifeminism article is even worse- it opens by lumping people who oppose it as a movement in with "people who hate women" and "consider women inferior to men".

206.174.0.58 (talk) 07:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * [[image:yawn.gif]] 09:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Fascism..... well there are other problems in this world like communism. and you have places that protest both like this house, http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340419 --Rimuru Tempest (talk) 17:40, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Muhammed
Can we remove Muhammad from the 'Precursors to Feminism' portion? Muhammad and Islam were hardly precursors to women's rights. Muhammad consummated a marriage with a 9 year old (he was 56 at the time, making this a count of paedophilia) and advocated the forcible rape of female slaves or prisoners of war. See Qur'anic verses 4:24, 23:6, and 70:30. The exact words in these verses are mā malakat aymānukum (ما ملكت أيمانکم - what your right hands possess), referring to PoWs and slaves. 4:24 also effectively annulled the previous marriages of captured women for the purpose of sexual intercourse. Muhammad was certainly not a precursor to feminism. #Can'tComeUpWithACleverSignature 18:31, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. I've zapped it.  No doubt if anyone wants to make the case for Muhammed being a proto-feminist they will turn up here.--Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 18:48, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Women's Place
Girls are supposed to cook, sew, clean, wear long skirts, and raise children, not act like these slutty little millenial girls. If girls work, they belong in a kitchen, school, or hospital. Evil Lunch Lady (talk) 11:36, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * }
 * I agree on that slutty part 100% oh and here's for jokes http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mw3-rage.jpg --Rimuru Tempest (talk) 17:49, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The person you just agreed with 100% is a troll with a history of doxxing and harassment. Christopher (talk) 17:53, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * only agreed on the slutty part, everything else he said was total bs. you should play ping-pong with his account using your banhammers XD --Rimuru Tempest (talk) 19:22, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, agreed on the slutty part so? It's interesting, depending on how you define a slut and how you define a man who does the same thing with women or would want to? Because at the same time women are criticized for excessive choosiness as entitled and hypergamous and how somehow feminism has favoured this, according to them, but heightening the success ratio of women. The two things don't stay together, I know you would like a happy medium too, but that's apparently trivial to state. Maybe there are all kinds of girls? I think the banned troll was humorous and not serious but apparently she/he was doxxing, if so, ok.--78.15.217.218 (talk) 20:20, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Biased
lol, I was curious as to how this article compared to Mens' right movement and activism. Talk about biased. Rational wiki? Pile of shite more like.
 * On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes ( ~ ) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. (You can indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line.) Thank you.
 * Much like yourself, dear Bon, we're not afraid to call things as we see them. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 16:19, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * "But I thought this was supposed to be RATIONALWiki!" Drink! Christopher (talk) 16:24, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Words
Slightly funspace, but:

Men can be described as cads, bounders, rascals, rapscallions, blackguards... (some having slight connotations of admiration).

Women can be adventuresses (which may have a slightly positive connotation).

Surely this imbalance is something feminists should address? (Unless sufficient more terms can be found - suggestions welcome) 86.146.100.44 (talk) 13:25, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * What? Has anyone in the 21st century used the term "cad"? Christopher (talk) 13:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Writers of historical (fan)fiction?
 * Doesn't it appear in a song '... something of the cad about the boy' IIRC? 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:12, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not exactly common though, I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to say. Christopher (talk) 17:16, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Playing around with the idea of how many words there are in the 'cads...' group and how few in the 'adventuress' group - and Something Should Be Done About It - hence, in part, the Funspace suggestion.
 * Cads do appear in the 21st century (and why not revive an obscure word or two?). 86.146.100.44 (talk) 22:10, 12 June 2017 (UTC)