RationalWiki:Technical support/Archive1

Sidebar
Trent, could you please put a link to this page on the sidebar/left nav bar/whatever it's called? Corryundefined 13:07, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * We need one? If so I'll do it (or you can yourself). Let's see what the mob thinks - the sidebar's getting a bit full. [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) and marmalade  13:12, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Well, it seems that if it's always visible it would be more likely to be used, and I think the tech help page deserves prominence. Corryundefined 13:54, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * How's that (there'll be complaints) [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) and marmalade 14:21, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * It's a good thing to have there. Perhaps it should say "Technical support" though?  ħ uman  15:40, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * feel free; although it could be read as "Technician (i.e. Trent) support" rather than "Technical ... " [[Image:Toast s.png|25px]] (Toast) and marmalade 15:49, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Thank you Toast! I'm wiki-savvy enough to get by, but not enough to manipulate site-wide variables and feel comfortable doing so.  And Human- maybe it could read "HALP!"  Corryundefined 15:55, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Hehe, I just wanted to get rid of the lazy abbreviation of "tech", looks to me like there's room for the whole word.  ħ uman  23:56, 3 February 2009 (EST)

HELP!!!
Why is our wiki crashing? --" 20:08, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * It has to do with an infinite loop being created in the intercom, Trent is aware of the problem and is trying to fix it. Which is why you don't play with it. - User   20:10, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * I didn't touch the intercom. --" 20:12, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * No but you use it every time something minor pops into your head. - User   20:13, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Which I stopped. --" 20:15, 3 February 2009 (EST)

The problem tonight was due to my error. Apologies to all, & thanks to tmtoulouse for getting it fixed. 20:37, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * I TOLD you it wasn't me. HAH! --" 20:39, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Is it caused by sending an empty intercom message, because that is how it appears? - User   23:02, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * No, it's caused by sending a faulty intercom message. I'm guessing that the blamk one appears because Trent has removed that message's original contents manually to get the site back up.   23:14, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Okay fair enough. I remember the intercom being a large project when Trent started it. - User   23:18, 3 February 2009 (EST)

I have changed the order of the text pre-processing so any lockup occurs when the text is submitted to the intercom and not after it has been posted to the site. The upshot is if you submit a message that will cause problems it will simply prevent execution of the code that posts the intercom message to the site. You will get an error message and have to go back and look at your message to see what was wrong. Ideally I would like to make it so that the errors do not create infinite loops but that is much more complicated. In the mean time intercom will no longer lock up the site, at worst it will make you look at a blank screen for thirty seconds after you submit a message. The actual error is pretty rare though so hopefully this won't happen often.

Short answer: Not really fixed, but won't break the site anymore, feel free to start using the intercom again as you see fit. tmtoulouse 13:55, 4 February 2009 (EST)


 * Thanks v much for that tmt. Please accept these dozen goats as a token of gratitude.  [[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley2.gif]][[image:goatsmiley1.gif]]   14:09, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, thank you, Trent, for jury-rigging a fix for us. We really appreciate it.   18:37, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Edit counter
There is a minor issue with the with the edit counter at RationalWiki:User edit counts: as of this post, the "Year" dropdown box only includes 2007 and 2008, but not 2009. 21:37, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * Here is to easy things to fix. tmtoulouse 00:12, 4 February 2009 (EST)
 * It's fixed! Thank you, Trent!   00:34, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Sig
  ConservapediaUndergroundResistor  ConservapediaSubwayResistor  ConservapediaUndergroundTransistor  ConservapediaUndergroundDiode  ConservapediaUndergroundInductor  ConservapediaUndergroundThermistor

Why won't that work? --" 17:57, 6 February 2009 (EST)


 * I think you can't have in there. Read this (might as well read this part too while you're there) --  Nx  talk 18:00, 6 February 2009 (EST)


 * (EC) Why are the color & font in option brackets? Even if they're supposed to be, it should be either or . "option weight" on its own, won't do anything. 18:02, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * Thank you!  --" 18:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 *  -- Nx  talk 18:06, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * No need to worry- still won't work. --" 18:10, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! --" 18:26, 6 February 2009 (EST)

Government & Information Technology
It's not possible to access this page normally, will simply take you to Government, everything beginning with the ampersand is discarded. This link works though. -- Nx  talk 11:20, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * And there is no way around that really, the "&" should be treated as a special character in titles and never used. Solution is to move the page the proper name Government and Information Technology. 216.221.87.112 12:49, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * Ok, then I'll just delete these pages (their content had already been moved long ago) to remove them from orphaned pages. -- Nx  talk 16:16, 9 February 2009 (EST)
 * And I unlinked the "&" version to get it off wanted pages (I hope).  ħ uman  17:41, 9 February 2009 (EST)

Email function
Seems to have disappeared - or is it just me? -- 20:20, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * Trent said it was borked the other day, but it should be good again?  ħ uman  00:30, 2 February 2009 (EST)
 * This is going to be a difficult problem, in order for the e-mail to function I have to have a working mail server on our server. Currently the mail server locks up on boot up. Until I get this sorted out e-mail should not be sent, hence it is disabled. tmtoulouse 13:57, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Just a quick note, the forums support private email, so if you can find your addressee there, you can still pmail them until the server is working.  ħ uman  16:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Email function 2
How is the email function going? 04:32, 8 February 2009 (EST)

Email function 3
Trent, if we don't have a functional mail server then why does the email function work on RWW? 12:47, 10 February 2009 (EST)

Newt
I wish to be newt. Please make me a newt. Sorry if this does not belong here. --"CURtalk 13:34, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * This doesn't belong anywhere, except maybe in a fairy tale or Monty Python.  13:41, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Human is a newt. --"CURtalk 13:42, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * If you want to be a newt, you'll have to ask Trent, as the only groups on the user rights menu are sysop, bureaucrat, bot and vandal. 13:44, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Than how is Human a newt? --"CURtalk 13:45, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * It doesn't do anything. Why not just write "I am a newt" on your user page. 13:47, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Because I'm a cheetah, lol. --"CURtalk 13:47, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * So why do you want to be a newt, Newtah?  ħ uman  01:39, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * Why not? --"CURtalk 16:08, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * Because you're a cheetah...  ħ uman  18:06, 17 February 2009 (EST)

(unindent) And you're a human. . . --"CURtalk 18:07, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Weird things
The tabs have no bottoms. There is a "0" in the top left of the screen... Trent, what did you break? Or not fix yet?  ħ uman  01:38, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Huge fonts
Am I the only one for whom the fonts on every page become huge when I log in? They're fine when I log out. 08:17, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * It seems fine when I log in as any of my myriad socks including, obviously, this one. Kal-El 08:23, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * I got huge fonts (& the 0 in top left Human mentions above) when I first accessed the site this morning, but it reverted to normal when I deleted the Intercom messages.  11:35, 17 February 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks. That fixed it.  11:59, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Some requests

 * 1) Could Extension:InputBox be installed?
 * 2) Could [a_href] be moved from the spam regex to the spam blacklist so it can be whitelisted on certain pages? I want to make a user script that needs that in its code.--Ipatrol 11:25, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * 'a' + ' href' is the way I solved the second one in one of my scripts. -- Nx  talk 11:32, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * What about [a._href] (without the underscore), and what about plain [h_ref](no underscore).--Ipatrol 12:28, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * Here, this:

editsection2.innerHTML = "Add comment"
 * , works. -- Nx  talk 12:33, 21 February 2009 (EST)

What about [a.href]--Ipatrol 12:48, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * I don't understand. What are you trying to do? -- Nx  talk 13:03, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * What about something that would enable us to play chess (with custom boards and pieces)? --"C, U Ra(n), ing. 12:49, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * What about the popup thing on WP? 13:11, 21 February 2009 (EST)
 * I just finished porting that, it's at User:Ipatrol/popups.js. Now issue 2 is resolved, but what about issue 1?--Ipatrol 13:25, 21 February 2009 (EST)

Not well formed
Trent, the XHTML returned by RW is not well formed and is causing my script to fail. There are two issues: the first one is extensions inserting javascript into the generated page, and not enclosing it in /*<![CDATA[*/ and /*]]>*/ The second one is the site support link, the code inserts </ul> and and no opening tags. I can hack around it, but it would be better if you could fix this. Thanks -- Nx  talk 08:02, 22 February 2009 (EST)


 * Would that be why AutoWikiBrowser doesn't work? It would be really useful if that could be made to work here.  <font color=Blue>Генгис    08:34, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * Probably, though I'm not familiar with AWB. -- Nx  talk 08:42, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * End discrimination against Mac and Linux users! 08:38, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * They're working on it -- Nx  talk 08:42, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * Collective yay for Python! 09:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)

I'm going through the source of the Saloon bar to find any more issues, and will list them here: $output = '<script language="JavaScript" src="'.$player_path.'audio-player.js"> ' . '<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="'.$player_path.'player.swf" id="audioplayer'.$id.'" height="24" width="290">' . '<param name="movie" value="'.$player_path.'player.swf">' . '<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID='.$id.'&amp;'.$param_string.'soundFile='.$file_string.'">' . '<param name="quality" value="high">' . '<param name="menu" value="false">' . '<param name="wmode" value="transparent">' . ' '; should be $output = '<script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="'.$player_path.'audio-player.js"> ' . '<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="'.$player_path.'player.swf" id="audioplayer'.$id.'" height="24" width="290">' . '<param name="movie" value="'.$player_path.'player.swf"/>' . '<param name="FlashVars" value="playerID='.$id.'&amp;'.$param_string.'soundFile='.$file_string.'"/>' . '<param name="quality" value="high"/>' . '<param name="menu" value="false"/>' . '<param name="wmode" value="transparent"/>' . ' '; I'm also correcting errors in signatures as I find them -- Nx  talk 10:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * The flashmp3 extension omits the type attribute from the generated script tag and does not close param tags.


 * The EmbedVide extensions uses instead of, which is not valid xhtml. I don't know if this will cause scripts to fail though. -- Nx  talk 10:48, 22 February 2009 (EST)
 * More on the support link: Looks like it gets inserted into the toolbox, but it should be after that, after the </ul> and  inside its own div. --  Nx  talk 11:05, 22 February 2009 (EST)


 * While fixing the popups script, one of the problems was that it didn't work when there was an intercom message. It was caused by two variables inserted by the intercom extension, named min and max, which conflict with the standard javascript min and max functions (Math.min and Math.max works of course). Could you please rename these two variables? -- Nx  talk 05:42, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * Nevermind, it was the script's min and max functions, and gedit's syntax highlighting is stupid. Still, it would be a good idea to change those variable names IMHO, since they're quite obvious and the conflict only happens if there's an intercom message, leading to hard to hunt down bugs. -- Nx  talk 07:59, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Trent? Are you there?
You said you'd be back yesterday; anyhow, why does the email work for RWW, who are on the same server, but not us? 14:33, 3 March 2009 (EST)

template:mathnav help
I'm just doing some librarian type stuff, and wanted to add some math articles to the Mathnav. But it didn't look like the Bible Guide or other templates I've used. I'd appreciate any help in how you edit it. template:mathnav Thanks.-- 11:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * It's automated, unlike the others. You have to add a special template to the articles themselves, like this: . The text after mathkey will be displayed on the Mathnav. The article also has to be in Cat:Mathematics or Cat:Mathematicians. --  Nx / talk  12:09, 5 March 2009 (EST)

"RationalWikiWiki has a problem"
When I try to view RationalWikiWiki, I get:

RationalWikiWiki has a problem

Fatal error: Call to a member function selectRow on a non-object in /home/rwwiki/public_html/wiki/includes/User.php on line 777.

Is someone working on the wiki, or is it just broken? 16:37, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * This either means that Trent is back, or we're screwed. --  Nx / talk 16:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * Hi Hans! I believe they are installing userconfirm. --<font color="#00FF6E" face="comic sans ms">Input <font color="FF00FB" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3"> The Resistor <font color="00AEFF" face="Curlz MT">Output 16:39, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * They? --  Nx / talk 16:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * Well, I at least would be, but I can't really do anything. You need to lift the 'No editing of own article' rule and replace it with 'NPOV'. Not to mention we need a WIGORW, which I will maintain. --<font color="#00FF6E" face="comic sans ms">Input <font color="FF00FB" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3"> The Resistor <font color="00AEFF" face="Curlz MT">Output 16:41, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * The "No editing of own article" rule is there for a good reason, and we're not lifting it. As for WIGORW, for that we need Trent's help. --  Nx / talk 16:45, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * It's stifling growth. If it is keeping people from editing, then we need to rethink it. --<font color="#00FF6E" face="comic sans ms">Input <font color="FF00FB" face="Monotype Corsiva" size="3"> The Resistor <font color="00AEFF" face="Curlz MT">Output 18:59, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * Why would making one article off-limits to people stop them from editing? If writing about themselves is their only reason for going to RWW, that brings up the exact point of that rule.  Oh, and it's working again, so let's take this discussion where it belongs. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:49, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * I note that we have the vandal extension installed there, but using it gives a php error. 16:57, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * I didn't even know we had the Vandal extension. --  Nx / talk 17:10, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Has someone been playing about?
Does anyone know why I'm getting a weird format where all the text is huge and a lot of the spacing is messed up, or perhaps is it happening to others? Basically, the start of the source code for every page on RW begins with "0"; I can see it in the top left and it directly precedes <!DOCTYPE html... > in the source code. Deleting it via a temporary edit solves the problem, but of course, only it's only a temporary thing. It only seems to appear on Opera. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 16:36, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Not on Ffox.  .  So, that's the tune they play on their fascist banjos 17:06, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Nor on Safari. 17:59, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Yep, this is pretty odd. Masking and Iding as either FF or IE doesn't change it. Has someone tried installing a hack that isn't very web compliant? <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 19:05, 11 March 2009 (EDT)
 * I think it's something to do with the intercom. I use IE, & I only get those symptoms if I come to the site when there's an intercom message waiting (that's been sent sometime when I'm offline).  Once I delete the message(s) & refresh the page, it's gone.   06:25, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Yep, it's the intercom. It disappeared when I logged out and then disappeared after logging in and deleting the messages (I've been storing them recently because I end up deleting and losing the links in it). <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:43, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Everything fine for me. (FireFox Vista) --Bobbing up 09:44, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

Mathnav
Help. Someone deleted a page cauchy sequence which is fine, apparently it was something "not in our vision", but they didn't know that said page was in Template:Mathnav. Can someone more familiar with this particular template remove the page reference? Thanks!-- 10:52, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * It's automagically not there. (for me at least) 10:59, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * That's the nice thing about automated navplates... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:58, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

API
Do bots have the right to API-write? If not can this be fixed. - User   05:24, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
 * If you mean the edit module, our mediawiki version doesn't have it, but that will be fixed soon. --  Nx / talk 05:26, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Thanks, it has been driving me mad for a while. It has been some good work you are doing, I take it you have run a few LAMP servers before. - User   05:28, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
 * No, actually I haven't. --  Nx / talk 05:29, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Really? That is the trick according to Scott Adams, if you are confident and you know 1% more on the topic than anyone else you look like an expert. - User   05:41, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

Chalkboard
When I open a page (TWIGO e.g.) that has the chalkboard @ the top at a subheader (i.e. I'm opening it at the bottom) the chalkboard appears there overwriting existing text and won't go 'til I've scrolled it off-screeen & back (Firefox). 09:14, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * It works fine for me - shows the top of the page (including the chalkboard) very briefly while opening the page, then jumps to the relevant section. Are you using monobooks?  It might could be something in that interfering with it, although I don't know what, not knowing anything about scripts.   16:44, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * nothing in my monobooks. It's now just a blank (or white, I suppose) rectangle that overwrites that section of the page & won't go away until I scroll it off screen & back again. Strange. 20:26, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * Pi's archived and the effect has gone, so either there was something on the upper half or it's the page length. 21:28, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Editing talk pages
I think that since the email feature does not work for RW, we should allow blocked users to edit their own talk page a la wikipedia. 12:56, 4 March 2009 (EST)
 * Why, did someone go nuts and actually block someone? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:43, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Rw and Rww images
Is it technically possible to transclude pictures between RW and RWW? that is, could a picture uploaded to one be shown on both sites without having to upload it twice? Now we're on the same server it might be possible. Rrose selavy 06:16, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
 * This seems to indicate you could; I haven't read it in detail but it looks like what you want. - User   06:28, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
 * It's not my area of expertise, but from what I can make out, the best way would be a third wiki for file hosting, similar to wikimedia commons. Would there be much denmand for a RationalCommons? Apart from LArron's graphs I am not struck by the wealth of obvious candidates. Rrose selavy 08:37, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Does RWW user pictures? Unless a user put one up of themselves here it is not much use to RWW. - User   08:40, 13 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Hardly anybody - the only one I recall doing so is Carptrash. Rrose selavy 08:47, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

Java
Say that I was to write a program, say a game or something. How could I procede with allowing users of RationalWiki to access it? I understand Java programs can be embedded into websites, but of course it raises issues of permission and the fact that Java program would need to be tested. 19:22, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Assuming you are writing an applet it is just a matter of hosting the applet code at an assessable point and a few lines of html. 216.221.87.112 18:12, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

Well, you could add the game to MediaWiki:Common.js. Ipatrol 20:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Silly Ipatrol. Javascript != Java -- Nx  / talk 20:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

DPL extension upgraded
I've upgraded DPL to the latest version, if you see anything broken, let me now. --  Nx / talk 08:27, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Dante's Hell Image
Help. I've got a image/template problem. In the metafiles of Image:Hell - simonists.jpg, a deleted page  has been referenced creating a dreaded "redlink". I am not sure how to fix that, without breaking any redirects or whatever might be in the image. Can anyone help? -- 10:19, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
 * It's the fair use template on the image. The image isn't used, and Dante's Hell 1 doesn't show up in the deletion log. --  Nx / talk 11:57, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
 * The image is PD, so I've removed the fair use template and the offending redlink. --  Nx / talk 15:14, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Editing tab wording
Does anyone else think that the oh-so-clever rewording of the editing tabs up top have become stupid and make it impossible to know what the hell is what? Did they change again recently? Can we not just have them say 'edit', 'talk', etc? 'Mutate' is not very obvious to any new editors who would come here, and what the hell is 'capture' or 'peer review'? It's just too cleverclogs, and frankly, pretty stupid. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  11:50, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Without endorsing or condemning the new tab names, you can put your mouse over them to tell you what they do.  11:53, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Yes, but tooltips are there to provide names for icons or extended information on buttons, not to actually tell you what they are because the actual title or icon is too abstract. It's fine when people know their way around wikis or have been here for a while, but mostly they're confusing if people just browse onto the site randomly. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:07, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Not condemning or endorsing, just trying to help.  12:08, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * ec I think they are great, though I did like "vaporize" better than euthanize. We are a snark filled wiki.  that just proves it!  :-)-- 12:09, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * FWIW, I'm kinda Meh on the new tabs.... I think most people are reasonably experienced with the wiki format to figure out what they mean, but I liked the old ones better. That said, it's not life changing or anything.... But I do agree that Vaporize is much better. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  12:28, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I am neutral on most of the changes, but like "vaporize" better than "euthanize." 12:32, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I suppose it depends. Sometimes articles are best off being "euthanised" other's are best off "vapourised" but you can't really tell until the last moment when it has to be done. :p <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 12:44, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I know most of us here are 'reasonably experienced with the wiki format', but to expect any new editors to figure it out is a bit of a stretch, no?  I don't think it's helpful, myself.    But let's let the mob decide.   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  12:58, 7 April 2009 (EDT)
 * When I first got here there was; release, fossil record, observe, ignore and vaporise. I changed lock to capture because of the release (a capture/release experiment being where capture, tag and release an animal to study it behaviour). Edit has been various thing I think at one point Ames had it as evolve, I like the mutate because by looking though the fossil record you can see the mutations (a bit clever). The only one I am really keen on is peer review. The simple reason is that I don't think enough reviewing of our material takes place. Most articles do not have citation or have grossly inadequate citations, it seems to me that people write stuff largely of the top of their head with nothing to support. This is what the peer review process suppose to examine, we should all be on the talkpages questioning the content of the articles to make them better. - User   22:52, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

I like our absolutely insane and difficult to follow wikiways. I also think that some of these things are getting a bit user-unfriendly. Can we adopt some fairly user-friendly compromise? Like "edit/mutate"? So we get the joke, but noobs with wiki experience see the word they expect? I think we might be in danger of outsmarting ourselves into, well, extinction? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:10, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * We could just add a table to the noobs guide explaining what they mean. Adding slashes sometimes causes problems, I don't know how it affect messages. - User   00:12, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * But that would not help when BoNs turned up. 00:15, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * As to the current tab titles, I think they are mostly intuitive, with the exception of "capture," which only makes sense if the lock feature is used the way 🇰🇪 uses it over at Conservapedia. 00:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)


 * @Pi, well, let's try it (the slash)? What's the worst that will happen, we break the wiki for three minutes?  & @ LX, yeah, exactly (EC'd but yeah, to both your comments). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:21, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * @Human give it a try, however it kind of ruins the point of a in-joke name. I might just write a javascript to change it my satisfaction, that might also be more trouble then it is worth. @X capture is in the sysop guide I changed it at the time. - User   00:25, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * It works, tried it out. Not sure if I really like it, but it does help the noobs?  At least on the main tabs, we might try to be noob friendly? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:34, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I also mucked with "talk" - what looks better, a slash or parens? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:36, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * The top edit-bar is now so wide that I have a horizontal scroll-bar on my browser window. (I think the parentheses are better than the slash.) 00:38, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I like the parentheses, it kind of says making it easier for newbies. What do you have your screen set at? - User   00:39, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * My browser window is 935 pixels in width. The font size is the default. 00:43, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I dont like the (talk) at all to be honest. Peer Review on its own looks good. Ace McWickedRevolt 00:44, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * My general feeling is that if you haven't used a wiki before RationalWiki is not really the place to start. How many people's first interaction with a wiki was RW? I think anyone familiarly with the layout at say WP will work out what it means quick enough. I would like them with just our sciencie names, it sets a tone for the place. - User   00:47, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Sing it, Pi. Ace McWickedRevolt 00:49, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I agree with Pi on that. 00:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Edit MediaWiki space is weird, after you click save everything looks different. Everyone happyish? - User   00:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I'm so happy I came in my girlfriends pants. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:03, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I see you (Pi) didn't like either of my experiments. How can we get feedback if no one sees them? And I disagree with the logic above.  Many people come here with "some but not much" wiki familiarity, and our little egopants tabs make life very complicated the first time they want to chime in. Peer Reveiw is totally non-user friendly, and non-intuitive. I think we should just change it back to "talk" and keep the fancy stuff for the the "higher functions". <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:13, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I looked a little messy in brackets and I also agree most who come here have "a little" exprience with wikis and would soon figure it out. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:17, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I added "argue" but have to go and hide the whisky before girl gets home so your on your own. Ace McWickedRevolt 01:22, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

@Pi - I'm more than happy to admit that I had never used a wiki before RW. I've learned everything I know about wikis here. So it's not as strange as you might think that newbies might also be wiki-novices. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  01:30, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Me too at Dog, except what I learned at CP. @ Pi, elsewhere we are complaining about new sysops who don't know how to link... how does that square?  Let's just keep changing them every few hours until someone says "brilliang" at the Saloon Bar? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:32, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I cut my teeth at CP. But I gotta say I loved "Mutate" and aint so happy with "complain". Ace McWickedRevolt 01:33, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * @Human. I was about to suggest we dedicate a project page to sorting this out with a poll/argument/HCM. How about RationalWiki:Editing tabs afterwards we can make it a help page. - User   01:34, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me - wherever we put it, let's chalkboard and intercom it to attract maximum argumentation. Let the mob decide. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:40, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Earth hour
Would someone more technically savvy than me, fix this... unless it's an intentional RW joke. Earth hour. -- 17:24, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * It's intentional, but you can edit the article with this link: --  Nx / talk  17:29, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * And if you hover down just a bit you'll "see" a link to Earth hour/article. It's nice to see that image exploit used for good instead of evil! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:35, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * That's just the underline feature of the template, I think that was unintentional, so I've removed it. The actual imagelink is another, smaller black square --  Nx / talk 17:44, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Eh, the link is good, it gets you to the article. Someone used the imagelink template, right?  Most of the page links to /article. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:55, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * HOws this for single minded practicality. "ok, well it's gone from the orphan pages, thanks to whomever, so I no longer care." ;-)-- 17:45, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Works for me... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:27, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Yes, I did use the imagelink template to provide a link to the earth hour article. I suppose I did make it a bit hard to edit, but if need be, we could add an edit link on the /article. <font color= face="Book Antiqua"> JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ <font color=> hi there  11:50, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Performance?
Is it me, or has RW become really slow in recent days? <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  22:55, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Is you. 22:57, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * (earlier comment retracted by the Cabal) Cut Trent a check, hell make it faster. Preferrably a big check.  User:TheemperorUser talk:Theemperor 23:00, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Yeah, it's not me- the rest of the web loads fine.  Already sent loads money to Trent, Mr.Star Trek.   Are we overloading the server with scripts, or is the server Confickered?   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  23:03, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * (That was rude Emperor) I'm noticing no difference, but my connection's slow anyhoo. Could the scripts do it? 23:09, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Sometimes RW gets "lumpy".  I think Trent pushed the potted plant over and the internets got confused? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:31, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Processor load was at 100% and memory consumption was also almost 100% during the last few days. Javascript is run at the client level, so that at least doesn't impact the server, except when it does extra xmlhttprequests, but your browsers cache should help there.
 * The root of the problem is that the parser cache is completely disabled. This means that every time anyone loads WIGO CP, RW has to regenerate the entire page from wikitext, so it has to look up if the images are present on the server (to display red or blue links), write the wigo entries into the database, read the votes from the database, etc. From my testing the image lookup has the most severe performance impact, doubling the time required to load the page (you can open up the source and scroll to the bottom, you'll see a comment which tells you how long it took). If we enabled the parser cache, loading WIGO:CP would be almost instant, but the votes displayed would be incorrect. The solution I've decided to use for this is to send an invalidation request to the server via javascript when you send in a vote (and only if the server reports back that the sum changed, so if you click the up arrow 1000 times, it won't invalidate the page 1000 times), essentially voting will have the same effect on caching as editing the page.
 * So the bottom line is that I plan to try reenabling the parser cache once we upgrade. What you have to keep in mind is that using the random extension disables the cache, but fortunately only on the page it's used, not the whole wiki. I might even change the extension so it doesn't disable the cache by default, only when a parameter is present. --  Nx / talk 03:30, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Unfortunately, Firefox's caching is a little bit too aggressive, but you can see this in effect in other browsers by going to RationalBeta. When the page is loaded from cache, serving time is ~ 0.1 seconds. When it has to be reparsed (after submitting a vote), it's ~ 2.8 seconds. (there's comment at the bottom in the html which tells you this) --  Nx / talk 04:06, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Nice answer, Nx. Thanks for working so hard to help improve things.   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  10:29, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I'm not good at writing articles, I have to do something :) --  Nx / talk 20:00, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Intercom
Seems to be interfering with the top tabs. 17:55, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Looks like it's purely cosmetic, so it's not worth fixing it now. --  Nx / talk 20:00, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Upgrade
Have we considered or discussed an upgrade to the MediaWiki version? There are many features and extensions we could use if we do upgrade.--Ipatrol 22:31, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
 * We are currently planning an upgrade to 1.14. Nx is rewriting the custom extensions so that we can upgrade more smoothly in the future. - User   23:11, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Here it is. - User   23:14, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Only 1.14? Whh not use the 1.15 that Wikimedia wikis use?--Ipatrol 23:41, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Where do we get it from? - User   23:42, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Because 1.14 is the current stable release. We don't have the manpower to use trunk. It should be easier to upgrade in the future however. --  Nx / talk 02:42, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
 * 1.15 is still alpha isn't it? - User   02:44, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
 * It comes out in May, however the development version of MediaWiki is a bit different than other software. After someone commits a change, they check it on a test wiki, and if everything is ok, it goes live on Wikimedia's servers, so essentially the code is always ready to run. However we cannot afford to do that, obviously, fortunately they make snapshot releases every 6 months, and they backport bugfixes and release them as bugfix releases (e.g. we have 1.11.1, a bugfix release). --  Nx / talk 02:57, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
 * So even the Wikimedia software is constructed a bit like the content of a wiki?</re-reads for eighth time an finally thinks they understands>- User   09:43, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
 * They're both broadly speaking open source projects, so they have their CURs as well to deal with I guess. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Everyplace has a CUR. There is no way out, so please stop endlessly bitching about it. -- 15:49, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

Hey, Nx, I hope you catch this here - when you decide to pull the switch, can you give us, say, 24 hours advance notice on the intercom and saloon bar? Then there's less confusion if the site is down for a bit. Thankies. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:28, 18 April 2009 (EDT)


 * Well, that depends more on Trent, but I promise I'll tell you at least 5 minutes before. :) --  Nx / talk 05:48, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Bandwidth
Is there any reason why we are going at a snail pace around here tonight? - User   09:01, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Dunno, but I'm noticing it so it must be really bad with my slow connection. 09:21, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Your PDA holding up alright? - User   09:25, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Not on PDA: on wireless broadband (3G); We & British Telecom had a disagreement: they said we owed them for time without connection - long story but upshot is: no landline! 09:57, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * I'm on a 10 mbit connection, and I've started opening all links in separate windows because of the extreme slowness. Each page takes several minutes to load. - Nasreddin 10:40, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Speeded up now! 10:54, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Nice to all our discussion of our connection speeds fixed the problem. This technical support stuff is clever. - User   19:33, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Fine here all evening. I'm been enjoying some popcorn while watching my trial... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:53, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Well, we were talking about eleven hours ago, H. 20:56, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Ah, ok, yeah. It was pi's bump that brought me here so I thought it was fresh.  Oh well. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:40, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
 * It's at it again. 08:48, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Not as bad as last time. - User   08:51, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
 * It's fluctuating, for me anyway. 08:54, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Perhaps Trent's ISP is very busy at that time of day? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  15:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Intercom 2
I'm getting "an error has occured" when I click "mark as read". (FF) Totnesmartin 19:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm getting it too. Have no idea why, it worked on RationalBeta before the upgrade, and now it's broken there too. --  Nx / talk 19:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Is my sig borken as well? Yup. What's the fix? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:00, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Remove the subst, or just remove the double template hack. It fixes itself when you save the page again. It's a MW bug actually, but since they don't disable sig cleaning at WP they don't care. Intercom is fixed btw. -- Nx  / talk 20:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, figured it out from your saloon bar update on the changes. Neat that the borken ones self heal!  20:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the fast work, TMT and NX. Totnesmartin 19:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, well done guys. Pretty painless it seemed.--Bobbing up 20:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We probably have to update some files that describe how things that have changed work now (VB, Intercom, Sigs, anything else?). And, yeah, great job on getting it done while I slept!   20:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Vandal brake
Are the accounts that were binned on the old site binned post-upgrade? 20:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No. -- Nx  / talk 20:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Crap. Is there a list of accounts that were binned in the old system? 20:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's give them a clean slate, and bin them if they start vandalising again. -- Nx  / talk 20:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of them will never know anyway. (famous last words) Totnesmartin 20:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can give you the list. Also, shortcuts like Special:VandalBrake/Nx work -- Nx  / talk 20:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's OK. Can you make that "Manage user rights" link in the toolbox now? 20:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure. -- Nx  / talk 20:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Randomness
Check out the following:

That's using the &  templates. Since the server switch, they're only repeating one random option each time the page is displayed, instead of showing a random selection. See also the Smileys at the top of the Saloon Bar: eight the same each time, instead of eight varied ones as before. In each case, these are using templates with the & system. I've checked the pages in IE & Firefox, both doing the same thing. 23:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's because I've enabled the parsercache. The random extension should disable the cache for pages it's used on. I'll take a look. -- Nx  / talk 23:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As a workaround use dummy parameters to force mediawiki to reparse the template call. That's the best solution I could find. -- Nx  / talk 23:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't disabling the parser cache for any page that had random elements make it more or less useless, considering almost every page on the wiki has random thingies of one sort or another on them? If there's anything to be said of RW, it's that we like our bells and whistles. -- 23:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out WIGO CP now. The improvement is dramatic. -- Nx  / talk 00:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, the random thing only pooches in the sense that each instance on one page load will be the same. So every pi sig or human sig on a given talk page will return the same random part.  Correct?  00:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. -- Nx  / talk 00:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you fix it? -- 17:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No. -- Nx  / talk 19:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to do anything? -- 19:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's possible to disable the cache. -- Nx  / talk 19:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Works fine for me- I get different verbs 19:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously, since I applied the workaround. -- Nx  / talk 19:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Workaround is only a workaround where it's applied. As mentioned above, there are numerous pre-existing pages with multiple random generators in them.  Is there no way of resolving this?   21:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) Disabling cache and hacking mediawiki to remove template caching, both undesirable. -- Nx  / talk 21:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But are there many that use the same random template more than once? Other than people using verb/noun etc. more than once on a talk page?  21:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Just use the work around Nx provided or limit the call to random selection through the use of a template. tmtoulouse 21:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it's the templates that muck up - one that has random content that appears many times on a page uses the first return from the template at every iteration. Look at my talk page links, or Pi's sig, to see.  For a while, everyone was winning Pi goats at the top of the saloon bar...  22:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Better workaround: the parameters are not needed, just the pipe character, e.g. . This should make signatures randomizable again --  Nx  / talk 07:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

DISPLAYTITLE
It won't work. -- 17:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Neither does or . -- 17:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Blink was removed by Trent. Give me a moment to fix displaytitle. -- Nx  / talk 17:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgot about displaytitle completely, thanks for reminding me. -- Nx  / talk 17:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx, Trent, for removing Blink. 19:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Ogg files
Why can't I upload .ogg sound files? 04:16, 1 February 2009 (EST)
 * I think the wiki needs to install special software for it. ~ Ttony21(talk, contribs) 11:00, 1 February 2009 (EST)

Ogg Handler
Trent, I know that this has been brought up before, but can you install the extention ogghandler? Thanks. User:TheemperorUser talk:Theemperor 16:13, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
 * We'd need to install ffmpeg and its dependencies first. Trent, what do you think? --  Nx / talk 21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Signatures and subst

 * While we're on the subject, shouldn't the bin only be active during certain periods of low sysop activity? <font color=#CC2200>Neveruse513 20:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC) (P.S.) HALP, my sig is borken.
 * Take the SUBST: out of your sig 20:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. 20:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I've modified the parser slightly, so both substitution and transclusion will work in signatures now. You can either use, in which case ~ will be converted to  , or  , in which case ~ will be converted to the contents of User:Example/sig --  Nx / talk  15:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

API write
I am having trouble trying to edit large pages with my PERL bots. I get "500 Internal Error, failed try to access http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/api.php after 6 attempts". Help please. 05:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's working with javascript (action=edit). Wait a second, only large pages? You can edit small ones? -- Nx  / talk 07:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I was able to make two edit to User talk:Pibot. It is only when I tried to run Capturebot or go back over the archive to but the talkpage at the top of those that don't have it. I'll give it another go with the Saloon bar see if it is page size. 07:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you get the api output? -- Nx  / talk 07:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And maybe it's just capturebot, not pibot, copy WIGO CP to your sandbox, and try editing with both. -- Nx  / talk 07:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Defiantly a size issue, I just tried to add the words Hello world to the top of Saloon bar. The problem seems to be because it doesn't add text it just write over the whole page. 07:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've got to go soon, but I've left a little piece of code in my Monobook.js that you can try. It edits a page whenever it runs, so don't save it unncommented, just click show preview once to edit. I'll alter it to alert the responseText. -- Nx  / talk 07:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I have a entirely new theory. Namespaces that it has worked in User talk, User, Talk; didn't work in Conservapedia, Conservapedia talk and RationalWiki. I think it may be a setting I'll have a look at the PerlWikimedia module over the next few (I badly need sleep and I have things I should be doing, like sleeping) if you can think of a reason it might be server side otherwise I suspect it might be because these namespaces don't exist on Wikipedia. 13:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Might be the custom namespaces, although RationalWiki and RationalWiki talk are not custom namespaces, only their names are custom. -- Nx  / talk 13:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you try editing custom namespaces with PyWikipediaBot? --  Nx / talk 21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Toolbars, timestamps
The stuff at the left needs some cleanup, also, did someone reset the server's timezone? I was used to CST, now it's GMT or something? 01:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by stuff on left? The sidebar? What's wrong with it? The timezone is UTC, not GMT. GMT is UTC+1 in the summer, and UTC+0 in the winter -- Nx  / talk 17:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and MW1.14 has better timezone handling, you can select a city, and it will handle daylight saving properly. I suspect UTC was standardized in MW as the wiki time, the server time is still set to Trent's timezone. -- Nx  / talk 17:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as time UTC/GMT whatever. I was just wondering why it suddenly went to UTC instead of "server time".  The sidebar is mucked.  It has three empty sections above support.  21:26, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a setting for server timezone, but I don't know if it changes signature timestamps as well. According to the documentation, it only changes the default timezone selected in preferences. Maybe the devs chose to force timestamps to universal time. --  Nx / talk 21:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually Nx, GMT is NOT UTC+1 in the summer. For all intents and purposes GMT and UTC are the same but differ in their seconds. For scientific/technical usage then UTC or UT1 is usally referenced. Daylight saving in the UK means that the country changes to BST (British summer time which is GMT+1) although the shipping forecasts are still given using GMT. 13:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia question
Is it possible to have different left columns on selected different pages? In particular can the logo top left (and its target) be changed from →Main page? 12:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Some of the tool boxes and navigation is different depending on the page so in terms of the left column yes. As for the big brain, I would be surprised if it could be linked somewhere other than the mainpage easily, but I am also sure Nx could find a work around. 12:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you like that? (props to Uncyclopedia) --  Nx / talk 12:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Nx, I see nothing? 13:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you refresh you see the RationalWikiWiki logo. Hey Nx can I play with that? 13:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, this is what I did. --  Nx / talk 13:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup! the refresh did it, but it still links to main page.
 * Let me enlarge: what I was thinking was to divide a wiki into chunks, each with their own "Main Page" & "nav etc links" but still one wiki. 13:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Changing the link is only possible through javascript (unreliable) or php (hacking core mediawiki=bad, or it might be possible with an extension). Nav links also. --  Nx / talk 13:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Right! Thanks, Nx. Then can more than one wiki be run on one installation of MediaWiki, or does it require a separate one for each wiki? 13:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Normally, you use one installation per wiki, but you could use the same installation for multiple wikis, thanks to symlinks. What do you have in mind? --  Nx / talk 13:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a non-RW possible project we've been considering. 13:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. I think the debian/ubuntu packages do it this way, at least partially. They put mediawiki into /usr/share/mediawiki, and then put a bunch of symlinks into /var/lib/mediawiki, except extensions and images, and LocalSettings.php is a symlink to a file in /etc/mediawiki. This should support a multiwiki installation, but it still needs to be set up manually. --  Nx / talk 13:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Templates in section titles
anyone ever notice how you won't be directed to the proper section if the name of that section happens to contain a template? 03:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There are lots of ways to break header linking - using links in them, special characters, etc. I doubt there is a "solution" other than not doing dumb things like using templates, links, etc. in headers.  Basically, anything that looks different than its plain text version won't work.  04:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "dumb things"? how flattering of you... 04:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "Dumb" as in we tried that a lot of times and noticed it makes things harder so we don't do it anymore. TOC's are weird, in that they relate to sections by "name", but editing works by "number".  By the way, sorry if I offended, but at least I tried to answer your query.  05:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It works, but the correct link is Conservapedia_Talk:What_is_going_on_at_CP%3F. But yeah, Human is right, you shouldn't use templates in section headers. --  Nx / talk 08:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Something I think I am missing in RW: Proposed AOTW
I need a revalation on the purported location of the button I am supposed to use to submit ratings in Proposed AOTW.

I am using Windows XP with IE8 and/or Firefox 3.0.10.

While people are at it, I have other problems with the one at the current AOTW. I manage to find a Rate button on the form for that one; it does not manage to show me the receipt (showing the consensus numbers?) after I attempted to submit the ratings. Same problem in the realm of the comment box below as well (clicking submit/preview does not add entry/preview entry to be added (only the entry I typed is missing; the rest of the page looks fine)). Thieh 05:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * AOTW is still the old extensions, pending a rewrite. Comments do appear if you purge the page, it's a caching issue. I'll make the aotw extension disable cache for that page to fix it. I don't know about the rate button though. --  Nx / talk 08:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd also appreciate a link to proposed aotw so I don't have to go hunting it down. --  Nx / talk 08:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, I found it. There's no rate button because rating is closed (article tag has closed=yes parameter). I've disabled the cache so rating and commenting should work now. --  Nx / talk 08:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

RSS
Why isn't RSS added to WIGO CP? More people would use it that AoTW. 08:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's an RSS feed for aotw? --  Nx / talk 08:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Capturebot -> bork
Would it be possible to run a version of capturebot over the entire wiki picking up "http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title" & '"diff" and snapping them or putting  where no result was found? CUR seems to be trying to scan the wiki @ the moment - it'll keep him out of mischief but could probably be automated? 18:21, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I WOULD, but I can't find the damn download link. -- 20:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * CUR do you need help with your bot? @Susan I could make a few changes to Capturebot if you like, we will need a category like pages needing Capturebot's attention. 09:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We could modify PyWikipedia's external link checker bot to collect all external links to Conservapedia on the wiki. From the list, I can create screenshots with the capturing script of capturebot2, once I fix its bugs that is. Finally, we'd need a mediawiki extension to insert the img links to all external links to Conservapedia. --  Nx / talk 13:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Need help on implementing template
the development at full details has been at this talk page essentially, I need some help in using, specifically when  is a choose sequence (   ... ). The part I found not to work is at here, and the templates are located at here and here (template 1 and template2 respectively).

Any help would be appreciated. Thieh 06:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You question almost makes no sense. Here is what I think you want. User:Π/hypergeometric. 06:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Big problem you have is that for choose templates I think the first variable is a number seed now. 06:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It just needs a parameter list (even an empty one will do, like in your sig) to prevent caching of the template call. MediaWiki assumes that if you call a template without parameters multiple times, the template should always return the same value, so it only reads the template page once. It doesn't check the parameter lists to see if they are identical. --  Nx / talk 13:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he wants to pass a template as a parameter to a template, something which I don't think works. I don't think template parameters are put through the mediawiki parser, they're just escaped and displayed, probably for very good reasons like avoiding infinite loops. -- 07:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, I could be wrong. -- 07:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Jeeves is right (I think), when you include a template in a parser or another template, it reads the template in using the subst thing, it actually looks at the code and not the displayed results. So when it is looking your template what it is reading is and results in Nil as  1  2  ≠ 1 or 2.  07:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was almost on the verge of throwing out an intercom thingie to help Knnnnn in his quest.  Why can't what he wants to do work!?  IE, use the result from one template as the clear and simple input for another?  08:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Because choose templates are not a result, they are a display feature. 09:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please to explain better to help Knnnnn? How then to get a "result", and not a "display feature" from a choose/option template?  09:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) You can pass the template name as a parameter, and then expand the template, e.g. 09:24, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So you gotta use an extra set of double curly brackets? Is that all? Gee, that's so intuitive!  09:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if you think about it... is replaced with whatever the parameter is, then the parser kicks in, and sees something with two curly brackets around it... --  Nx / talk  09:38, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The parameter should be the template name, without curly brackets of course. --  Nx / talk 09:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Analogy of what I am trying to accomplish: Let's say the items are "YHWH" and "Allah", then at somewhere else I need names of scriptures like "Tanakh" and "Qu'ran". (e.g. "Allah" is good.  read the "Qu'ran".).  So I need some random number generation mechanism to get a parameter in order to match the two set of descriptions.  Thieh 12:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As you can see from my experiments in your sandbox, the problem is not in the template inclusion. You cannot use the option tag, because when #switch is evaluated, it evaluates the code, not the result, because parser functions are evaluated before tags. --  Nx / talk 12:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe suggestion of what I can use? Thieh 13:00, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I think it's impossible to do what you want. --  Nx / talk 13:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does RW has WInter or this implemented? Although I have no idea whether the #rand will sync (or whether a wrapper will make them sync) Thieh 15:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've installed DynamicFunctions, that should work, since it's a parser function too --  Nx / talk 15:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Refnote templates
I've noticed there is a template for adding the note section to articles, but not one for refnotes themselves, could someone with tech access please change this? It is very tedious to find a page with refnotes and copy/paste the frame into a different article. 19:21, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You mean to write ? That's not hard to remember, but I think there is a template for it, efn or something. —Kazitor, pending 22:28, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Issue with voting
I'm having trouble with a link on WIGO:World. Diff I created a new entry with a new vote in the usual way, but it appeared with 17 upvotes. I tried to delete the vote tags and add a new vote but that didn't have any effect. I don't know if this is a caching issue or what. Thanks. --Gospatric (talk) 09:20, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I tried action=purge so I guess it's not caching, and I tried editing the text as well as posting a new vote. I'm wondering if someone else deleted a poll and I'm reusing that number. Is there a way to get around that? --Gospatric (talk) 09:25, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks like this relates to above. I changed it to   instead. —Kazitor, pending 09:31, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, it probably does relate to that issue now I look at the numbers. No idea why this should reappear as an issue? --Gospatric (talk) 12:42, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Rename Talkpage/Pibot
The name's highly obsolete. I suggest relocating it, leaving a redirect, to something like Talkpage/AutoArchive or even just AutoArchive. Can confirm this wouldn't muck up the archiving. —Kazitor, pending 11:14, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.31
isn't here yet, but is a matter of months. Anyone else who feels like putting up a test install, feel free - David Gerard (talk) 22:56, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Harmful Edit
Trying to make the start of the McDojo article mention the term belt mill got marked as harmful. I am a bit confused? Benn (talk) 12:18, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I am equally confused. However, since you are currently autopatrolled (and a sysop), you should be able to make the edit. —Kazitor, pending 06:14, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Attempted Edit on Talk Page Marked as Harmful Spam
Trying to add a part on the Realist Left Talk Page in which I just give my honest opinions on the group. My entry does not contain any bigotry or endorsement of extremist views, but it was still marked as harmful and blocked as spam. Here is the edit in its entirety:

Please tell me how this is "harmful" so that I may improve it. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 24.61.154.51 / talk
 * I'm not too acquainted with the relevant filters, but I do know there are a lot of false positives. It's easiest to just register, get autopatrolled (you can ask for it if you don't want to wait a day and ten edits) and do it then. —Kazitor, pending 06:18, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Trying to Add Content to Alt-Right Section but It Won't Let Me
I've been trying to edit the subsection "Men are Under Attack" on the Alt-right by adding a quote from a book ("Alt-Right: From 4chan to the White House" by Mike Wendling) that I think summarizes the alt-right's views on women and feminism quite well. However, every time I try to add it, the website won't let me, saying that it's "harmful" and "spam", even though it really isn't. I'm just inserting a quote from a book that just sums up the alt-right's beliefs but does not condone or endorse them in any way. Here is the quote in question:

Could someone please tell me how to add the content? NotYourAverageBoN (talk) 00:45, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not too acquainted with the relevant filters, but I do know there are a lot of false positives. I've added you to autopatrolled so you should be able to make the edit. —Kazitor, pending 06:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Spam user names
Not being a wiki-technical person, could the name filter system use 'several numbers in the user name' as part of the filtering process? 'Several consonants in a row' might also be feasible (but would have a few false positives - the Knightsbridge effect). Anna Livia (talk) 11:11, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

error?
When I go look at the block log for PacWalker, it shows an internal system error. Cruise ControlManual! 00:15, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm getting it too. Something about the timestamp needing 14 characters. Perhaps we should ping a tech. Boredatwork (talk) 10:02, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I see no problems. Last entry on 2015-10-24. —Kazitor, pending 11:30, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I got the problem when I checked it too. 𝔊𝔬𝔞𝔱-𝔈𝔪𝔭𝔢𝔯𝔬𝔯 𝔅𝔦𝔤𝔰 (𝔴𝔬𝔯𝔡𝔰 𝔬𝔣 𝔴𝔦𝔰𝔡𝔬𝔪/𝔞𝔠𝔥𝔦𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔰) 13:52, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If some are seeing it and some aren't, could it be a Browser/OS issue then? I'm on Windows 10 (blegh) and chrome here. Boredatwork (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Library Windows 7 Chrome and (very old) IE shows error message. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 13:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * iPhone SE Safari shows the error. Christopher (talk) 14:19, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I doubt it has anything to do with the user agent (why would it?). I get the error if logged out (technically, when looking at it from a private window). Note the following lines: Something about your time settings. Mine's Australia/Sydney, FYI. —Kazitor, pending 22:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) 1 /srv/rw_common/core/languages/Language.php(2436): Language->internalUserTimeAndDate(string, boolean, User, array)
 * 2) 2 /srv/rw_common/core/languages/Language.php(3929): Language->userTimeAndDate(integer, User)
 * 3) 3 /srv/rw_common/core/includes/logging/BlockLogFormatter.php(62): Language->translateBlockExpiry(string, User)
 * This belongs in technical support. 23:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Assistance with an AfD
I am attempting to create an AfD for Glynn Harrison, however an older AfD already exists. Is there some way this could be resolved without deleting or editing the older AfD? 17:56, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Try differentiating it with the year of the new one. RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:52, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Allow me to clarify my problem somewhat. I do not know how to make a new AfD article that links back to the template. Or how to manually create AfD articles in general. 19:00, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * see Article for deletion discussion —Kazitor, pending 23:24, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that I'm still a bit confused. 23:38, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Create RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Glynn Harrison 2018 or whatever with content —Kazitor, pending 23:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and my apologies for being such a dolt at this process. I'm still learning a few things here and there. 00:06, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Self-defeating captchas
Surely requiring captchas for previews that don't modify the database as well as when actually submitting changes will only mean that people will submit without previewing, thus making the wiki worse? Oooh another captcha trying to stop this suggestion! --Annanoon (talk) 23:38, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Do they really do that? I'm not even sure how useful they are, honestly. They disappear once you're added to autopatrolled. —Kazitor, pending 05:04, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Edit Filter
I'm a bot and I work my mechanical ass off all day to keep this place spam and vandalism free and you won't even let me edit. The edit filter (talk) 22:06, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Well you don't do your job very well. When was the last time you took care of vandalism? Work harder, then we'll talk about editing rights. —Kazitor, pending 23:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * psst* Edit Filter is a basilisk truther - David Gerard (talk) 11:15, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

User:Morpheos
Apparently this user keeps being hit by a spam edit filter. They was also unable to edit this page to report the issue. Regards --RWRW (talk) 00:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Filter 11 is some weird piece of sorcery that causes a lot of problems and I have no idea why. I'm not even sure how necessary it is. —Kazitor, pending 04:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Not timestamped filter acting weird
Quite a few edits are getting tagged despite not showing up with the batch testing tool. It seems that the conditions are set properly, so why are other edits getting tagged? —Kazitor, pending 04:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Picture Upload?
Can someone tell me how to upload a picture of the subject for this article? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ilana_Mercer Or maybe even just do it for me. I'm a dunce, I can't figure it out. Kc2290 (talk) 06:47, 18 July 2018 (UTC)kc2290
 * There's no need to upload one because there's already one at Wikimedia Commons (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ilana_Mercer.jpg). I have put it on her page for you. For future reference, see our help page on images: Help:Images. Bongolian (talk) 06:54, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ninja'd... how appropriate, you have ninja rights. —Kazitor, pending 06:56, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Kc2290 (talk) 07:24, 18 July 2018 (UTC)Kc2290

Hi, does anyone know how to add a picture to Wikipedia Commons? I want to upload and add a more current picture of Ilana Mercer. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ilana_Mercer

Kc2290 (talk) 08:49, 23 July 2018 (UTC)Kc2290
 * You would have to register an account there and upload it. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people willing to help you do the one thing that site exists for :) —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 09:03, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Finding the 2 millionth edit
So we have have hit million edts according to the statistics.

Edit #1 million was this edit by Bob M. (maybe)

What is edit #2 million supposed to be?

09:08, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * If you wanted to know, it's a bit late now. You should've checked recent changes back around when it happened. I personally didn't care enough. Who's to say that edit was the millionth anyway, if there isn't an oldid of 2000000 at 2 million edits, I don't see why old=1000000 should correspond to edit #1000000. —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 09:17, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok so counting back in the recent changes the two millionth edit would appear to be this one. 09:27, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, props to you for tracing it back; props to me for making it :D —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 09:28, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * actually you could probably just set the limit to something convenient, couldn't you? —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 09:29, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * When I checked it was less than 250 edits back, but the way edits nest by page made it much harder to find. I was determined that it wouldn't be a troll, given that a troll had brought up that possibility last week. :D 10:01, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I did my own quick limit-based check and didn't get the same result. Were you using the right number? You can get an up-to-date figure by previewing a page with  in it. —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 10:10, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok using that and counting again I didn't get the same result either. Recounted, got another result (arggh). For prosperity it's probably between oldid=1976500 and oldid=1976700 :) But there's no way I know to be completely certain which exact edit it is. 10:32, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It appears the mismatch between oldids (also rev_ids see api call) and the actual edit count, is related to how deleted edits were handled in previous versions of mediawiki (the archive table specifically). Therefore it is impossible to do an exact trace via the API either. 10:52, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Captcha (edition 94)
Not a request for help, but pointing out a curiosity: why do I need to do a captcha at work, with a longstanding IP, but not here at home, with a new IP (beyond just ticking "I am not a robot")? Firefox there, chrome here, btw. 79.68.230.71 (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2018 (UTC) (Sophie)
 * The CAPTCHA is reCAPTCHA, which does its own checks. It's not just ticking a box, I think it looks at mouse movements among other things. I wouldn't be surprised if doing it a lot from home makes it less suspicious of you. —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 22:29, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The NoCaptcha/ReCaptcha service is supplied by Google. Chrome is Google, Firefox is Mozilla. Anyway Google built a number of identity verification and user tracking features into Chrome which allow it to play nice with Google services where other browsers don't. The NoCaptcha service is tracking your useragent among other things (so it knows your machine and browser), your IP address is no longer a primary factor, to the extent they don't even use it as the primary tracker if they can tag your browser identifier or advertising ID. Google will give you a better NoCaptcha experience if you use their products. (because browser racism)
 * Google knows that you are not a robot before you even finish loading the page, and contrary to popular belief the checkbox doesn't actually do anything. Your machine and identity details are collected on pageview, and keyboard/mouse movements are being tracked by background scripts, all of which work independently and without the checkbox. Also bear in mind that Google almost certainly knows your home address (they have algorithms to figure it out from your location history), so Kazitor's point about being at home being less suspicious is also a factor, if I travel they will send me alerts about my activity, they are pretty good at that.
 * In truth there is no reason for the image verification thing they do either, since that is also not used as a direct measure of your humanity, but in fact is training a Google car AI program (it used to be training an OCR program, but thats done now). It's main use is to be difficult for bots to fill out without a background script figuring out its a bot, the images themselves are mainly not relevant, and are cross referenced only against other people for being correct, if all people presented with it gave the wrong answer, Google would accept that, and if the first few people gave the wrong answer, all subsequent users would have to get it wrong in the same way to pass.
 * The main reason it has the fiddly checkbox is because people feel better about a box they tick than the idea that Google is monitoring their entire lives across almost every website they visit, and that google knows every detail of their device, location, and behaviour. 23:30, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Since it doesn't seem to be stopping the spambots anyway, do you think it should be replaced with something else? Something not affiliated with Google, hopefully... —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 10:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * To be honest the options are rather limited. According to the manual there is something called QuestyCaptcha which asks questions, but it would not take long for spambots to crack this. Wikimedia uses FancyCaptcha which is apparently "used by very few wikis outside WMF if any, probably because of scarce effectiveness." So not promising. I don't think any of the other options are as effective as Google's service.
 * The only truly effective way I ever found to 'stop' spam was to do what I did on wiki.org.uk (a much smaller wiki). Which was to use the Google captcha and force all new users to have their edits approved via a moderation tool, except on talk pages. I also disabled IP editing, but that was actually for GDPR compliance and not for anti-spam. I am not sure that this setup would work well here, because it doesn't really cut down the amount of patrolling work much, it's main benefit is that you have a clean site if you aren't their all the time. It might also discourage new people from joining, and discourage people from drive by commenting. 10:52, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * "it would not take long for spambots to crack this" Not true, as the bots aren't specifically targeting this site. I find it's highly effective in most cases to just design your own really simple captcha that the bots don't (and won't) know about. —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 11:15, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It would probably be a good idea then. Even if only to get rid of the Google spyware service. There's then the question of which to use, I personally think QuestyCaptcha looks good, but FancyCaptcha could be an option also. 12:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Tried to edit two completely different pages, got flagged as spam both times, absolutely no clue why (closed)
So I recently tried to edit the pages for Revolutionary Communist Party (USA) and Autism, and got flagged as spam both times. With the RCP page, the edit was very slightly intended to diss the organization, so I figured maybe some disparaging word I used got caught (I’m new to editing so I have no idea how the spam filter works), and maybe the fact that it was an article with many unsourced statements, including the one I was trying to add, may mean the filter was overly sensitive. Then when I tried to edit the Autism page a few minutes later, I added general info about the state of autism research, took great pains to include a reliable source (and to avoid veering away from the source too much in what I said), and STILL got flagged! What could possibly be going on?
 * If you don't mind, can you try to screencap the contents you're trying to add, if the page refuses to save your edits? 23:12, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Editing Without Account (closed)
I have made some contributions to Catalonia and gave my reasoning in the edit summaries. However, all of it got reverted by a user with no explanation. Did that happen just because I am not logged in? or do I have to notify everyone in the talk page first before changing anything? 70.95.44.93 (talk) 14:54, 3 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I removed your edit to the article in question because the explanation you gave doesn't appear to be justified in removing referenced content from the article. I suggest you explain your rationale in the article's talk page and back it up with a citation or two. Cosmikdebris (talk) 15:01, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Restrict userpage creation (closed unless anyone wants to fuck over the n00bs again)
Basically, edit filter, stop new users making userpages with links, foil spambot, simple. 13:05, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * let me check the filters 21:29, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * tldr the filter that just did that got too many false positives (of new uers making a userpage) so we've the more complicated filters that let maybe 1 in 20 slip thru  21:29, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I should probably have a look at the filter sometime then. For future reference I was imagining the following. 01:13, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

If
 * namespace "user"

and
 * edit contains string "http" or "://"

and
 * user less than 10 minutes old
 * <3 edits
 * not sysop/autopatarolled

then
 * disallow

we used basically that code above before and it led to dozens of new, legit accts trying to make a userpage getting slammed. seems not worth it when it'd only stop 50% of botspam and it only saves like 10 clicks per day 23:33, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Voter suppression (closed - no voters suppressed)
I went to the voting booth and it said I've already voted, but I didn't. Help pls ;-; 00:11, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Same here. RoninMacbeth (talk) 00:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I was able to vote, but it seems other users have also experienced this - . --RWRW (talk) 00:22, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It says I've already voted, but I haven't. Cosmikdebris (talk) 00:26, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I reported this problem to David Gerard, who thought he fixed it but apparently has not. 02:26, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * FUCKING COMPUTERS. Just a tick ... - David Gerard (talk) 07:21, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * try now - David Gerard (talk) 07:23, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I just managed to vote myself - David Gerard (talk) 07:52, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, the voting function is working again. 17:44, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Same here. Thanks David! RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Works now. Thanks David. Cosmikdebris (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Raw URL rendered at the end of a citation is displayed
Per Template:cite book Undesirably displays url Soulution Per the – the raw URL is rendered at the end of the citation per spec., but is hidden—except when printed. Dbz (talk) 03:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC) && 03:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Do not display the raw URL that is rendered at the end of a citation.
 * Mark Twain (1885). Adventures of Huckleberry Finn: (Tom Sawyer's Comrade). Collectors Reprints Incorporated. https: //books.google.com/books?id=zuvXAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA3.
 * Rules are defined in MediaWiki:Common.css to control the appearance of citations.

Time Zones (closed)
In the Saloon Bar, made an excellent suggestion that Holydaze Templates be made time zone-sensitive. People do come here from all over the planet after all. Can someone with the technical know-how please get that done? Thanks! Nerd (talk) 15:20, 23 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately this is not really possible because the RationalWiki server does not currently have anything that actively tracks the location of it's users. Theoretically we could hack together some javascript or an extension to start doing this, but it seems pretty evil to me. 15:22, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, bugger. It is not possible to anonymously locate users? Nerd (talk) 15:25, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Technically yes, but it involves a process intensive javascript thingy being loaded on every page so the users own browser does the work. This would have a performance impact on the entire site. Otherwise all the other options basically involve the RW server collecting the users IP address and sending that to a geolocation lookup service. Wikipedia does this with a geo cookie and some other tracking functions. 15:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I`m not in favor of doing such a thing. Isn't RW supposed to be against tracking?--Don Juan (talk) 14:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Passwords
This is for the two people with server access. I think it should be considered. To improve password security, make $wgPasswordAttemptThrottle more restrictive, and add a $wgPasswordPolicy value, maybe a MinimalPasswordLength of 8 or 10 characters. 16:08, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "Should be considered" and "improve security" is not clear enough. What's your specific concern?  That user accounts are vulnerable to hijacking?  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:23, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I saw the saloon bar post. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


 * set the following:

$wgPasswordAttemptThrottle = [ [ 'count' => 3, 'seconds' => 60 ], [ 'count' => 10, 'seconds' => 300 ], [ 'count' => 50, 'seconds' => 60*60*48 ], ];


 * let's see how it goes - David Gerard (talk) 22:32, 30 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Seems good to me. 13:32, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * actually I'll just make that 5 => 300 - David Gerard (talk) 20:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Supremely important bot
Kazitor seems to have gone LANCB. The User:Archiver page suggests that Kazitor probably had a very high bus factor and that Archiver is now stuffed on a permanent basis. Who is the backup? 13:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * ran the archiver for a while, yes? - David Gerard (talk) 20:49, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Which of us should run it now? I'd be interested but I`m too much of a lazy bastard to actually put all of my time into RW, I`m content with fucking around with the edit filter.--Don Juan (talk) 20:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Correct. But Kazitor took over.
 * I volunteer. But I will have to be trained. How difficult is it? Nerd (talk) 21:00, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I don't even know where the code is or where the bot is hosted/was hosted or even if it is hosted, as it may be a run-yourself item. Basically we need to find the bot itself, and find someone to run it. 21:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Can't someone come up with a new bot that fulfills the exact same function? Or just ask FCP for the source code or where it is hosted the next time he comes around.--Don Juan (talk) 22:22, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The sensible thing to do would be to put the code on Github so it doesn't get lost, unless it is already there, and then link to it from here so it can easily be found and run by anyone. 22:26, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, if you scroll down to the bottom, Kazitor said he would give the login information to a "trustworthy" person in case of his departure. However, the last time the bot operated was just a few days ago. Kazitor may not be particularly active right now but that does not necessarily mean he is not operating the bot. Nerd (talk) 22:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a bot, it may simply operate automatically until wherever it is running from is switched off. I can simply use the renaming tool to free up the username if it's needed, the issue is only the bot/code itself. 22:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * In that case, you should contact FuzzyCatPotato and Kazitor directly. Nerd (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

to anyone interested

[1] create account with bot perms [2] install pywikibot [3] run pywikibot setup.py for non-Wikimedia Foundation wiki and using Talkpage/Pibot (i forget the details but is very easy) [4] edit archivebot.py according to User:Archivist [5] schedule to run every day or so (eg crontab on linux)

02:52, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * By "bot perms" did you mean "bot permissions"? How do I do that? I cannot give an account bot permissions. I'm just a Sysop, not a Tech. Nerd (talk) 03:06, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * either [1] ask for tech perms from a mod or [2] ask a tech to give the user bot perms 08:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I`m setting up the bot right now.--Don Juan (talk) 14:59, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and good luck! Nerd (talk) 15:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Might take me a few days, my attention span ebbs and flows, but I've already started the initial process, including downloading the most recently updated version of pywikibot by Gitbash, also I made sure to create an initial "archivist.py" file, for when I have everything set up, and I set up the account for the bot, as I said, I've taken the initial steps.--Don Juan (talk) 21:02, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Filter testing
In a few minutes I`m going to create an account with an obscene username to test our filters, automatic and otherwise. If no-one responds, then people need to pay more attention to the "Recent Changes" log. I'll let you know that it's me, RW's least favorite dipshit, on the (hopefully) blocked user's talkpage.--Don Juan (talk) 08:12, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Updated filter accordingly, apparently cocksucker was a valid username. Key word being was, because I updated the filters to compensate. Wait to see if the username triggers it or not, may have to log in again to trip it up, or someone, not being myself, blocks the account, but not the IP.--Don Juan (talk) 08:19, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Teh filter will only on the createaccount action. That's why the filter blocks my username but doesn't block me all the time when I login and edit. 11:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly what I was going for, anyone who wants to create an account with the elements "cock" and "suck" as part of their handle will be prevented from doing so.--Don Juan (talk) 13:32, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I recommend against filtering out the word "dick", because the word "dick" also is a name, shorthand for "Richard".--Don Juan (talk) 13:42, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah I kinda think it is an unfortunate name. I mean you wouldn't name your child "penis" unless you were a literal moron. 13:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but thanks anyways for the new name for my unborn child.--Don Juan (talk) 14:12, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Who the fuck decided swear words in usernames is bad in the first place?
What the fuck? What the hell kind of prudes are we now? And you're not even remotely ready to address the scunthorpe problem either. This seems like a terrible idea. Why are you doing it? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I've disabled both the auto-reject and auto-block features of this edit filter. New filters are 100% "ask first" things.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:24, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Heh. I dunno, maybe we were getting carried away. Nevertheless I have enabled warning only on the filter so anyone tripping it will be warned that their edit "could be harmful". 15:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I mean, if there was some plague of "fuck this wiki" wandals or whatever, I'd be okay with one we turn on for a week or something. But the existing edit filters scunthorpe a lot already.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * There are, I recommend keeping the (secret) and (secret) parts of the filter up for blocking, or just to create a new one with those in place. -- Don Juan (talk) 16:00, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed, but those are still there in the another filter, so it should be fine. 16:33, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * And those filters do things like check newuser. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I mean, swear words are ususally a poor choice for a username just as words for bodily fluids anyway. I am not sure what's really the big deal of the filter though we should limit potential false positives these can generate. 18:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's not do a blanket ban. Not every use of every possible vulgarity is vulgar. Consider and  Bongolian (talk) 19:18, 4 December 2018 (UTC) Also, we should never forget  Bongolian (talk) 23:24, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The oolon filter is deleted now. Whoever that troll was quickly figured out how to bypass it and then got bored and went somewhere else. 12:40, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * There's an old saying that has been passed down by generations of Internet users: "Don't feed the troll." Always works, should follow this sage advice more often. Ɖøn Ĵuan (talk) 12:44, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * haha yeah what an ass. Iikib xikkyogus (talk) 15:55, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Meh. I half wish there were more trolls so I could practise filter magic, but whatever. 16:37, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Regarding my bot Archiver2
Python fucked up, missing a file, have to repair it. Finally decided to get off my lazy ass and do some work on the bot. I'll give project updates as we go along.--Don Juan (talk) 15:04, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The original archiver seems to be running again. 19:39, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Technical note
The edit filter now has bot rights (added by RoninMacbeth) because of the shiteton of spambots it is blocking with filter 57. I think this might be the default situation unless the SEO spammers go away. It's been running a while now with no false positives (and a better warning) and its performance can be seen via the filter log. If anyone is wondering why edit filter doesn't show in recent changes anymore, this is why. 20:59, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
 * This seems to be an eminently sensible arrangement. -- MtD Bogan   21:01, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Renumbering ordered lists within a column list
Is it possible to specify a starting number other than 1 for an ordered list within a column list? I tried this, but it failed: • 3 <BR> Bongolian (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes: try here. Scream!! (talk) 21:40, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems that's what you did. So I dunno! Scream!! (talk) 21:44, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

No: it works:

<li>nine</li> <li>ten</li> <li>eleven</li> </ol>

or:

<ol> nine</li> eight</li> seven</li> </ol>

Scream!! (talk) 21:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that works, but not when you stick it within a collist. Bongolian (talk) 21:54, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

ol/li is the HTML definition for an ordered list, and template:div col (whats inside collist) uses a div with list definition css, so this is probably conflicting. If this functionality is really needed a new template can be made to accommodate it. 23:06, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It would be useful for me because I'm planning a very long list that would look better if it could be broken into chunks with continuous numbering. See: Draft:Encyclopedia of American Loons. It's probably not going to come up often as an issue though. Bongolian (talk) 23:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
 * What I thought would work didn't work. I will have another go later, probably with some new css. 11:00, 19 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Help:Templates § Numbered parameters work OK
 * Template:Div col works OK

– Dbz (talk) 19:38, 26 December 2018 (UTC) && 05:22, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I've rethought the organization of the Draft:Encyclopedia of American Loons page, so I probably won't be using this. It's still a problem though, and I've encountered this sort of problem with nested commands before (e.g. notes that use footnotes, which the template solves). Bongolian (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Bongolian, do you have an example of this workaround: notes that use footnotes, which the template solves. – Dbz (talk) 06:42, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

For example, this code works:<BR>
 * <BR>

But this equivalent code does not:<BR>
 * <BR>

Bongolian (talk) 07:53, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Known limitation per : You cannot nest a footnote within a footnote that uses  tags, even if the footnotes belong to different groups.  – Dbz (talk) 00:27, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Spammers getting more desperate?
I caught a BoN creating a spam page on another BoN page twice. See the history for: User talk:182.186.247.236. There have been other spam edits on BoN pages before that I've seen but these were from newly created accounts rather than from BoNs. Maybe there needs to be a filter for this? Bongolian (talk) 09:04, 29 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Well the old spammer method was to create accounts and then create spam pages, but since we enabled filter 57, the edit filter has been working overtime and blocked the spammers hundreds of times so that spam from registered accounts is basically stopped. The problem is that the filter is designed not to affect BoN's to avoid false positives, so they are covered by filter 58 instead. Filter 58 is less strict than 57 to take into account that BoN's commenting on talk pages is an obvious area for false positives. Thus, BoN's can still spam talk pages in some situations. Obviously we can make filter 58 stricter, but I have been holding off on that a bit really because we have some constructive BoN's as well. 12:40, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand the reasoning. Thanks for the explanation. Bongolian (talk) 18:19, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Accidental IP edit
Hi, could someone pretty please replace an IP edit for my user account on this page. Much appreciated. Thanks a bunch.
 * Sorry, it isn't possible to replace the IP with your username, but I have hidden the IP from public view. --RWRW (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Though I think this user is maybe overly concerned about what an IP leaves exposed. I doubt anyone's going dox-hunting for a "citation needed" edit, and if they do, I'm not sure what an IP address tells anyone.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 22:54, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Agreed. — MisterTwister (talk) 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Could someone possibly suppress my IP on this page https://rationalwiki.org/w/indexphp?title=Rin_Flk&action=history I edited (although It wasn't really an edit more of blank and I didn't mean to) the page. (luckily it's been undone) I didn't have any experience with Wikipedia and I had no idea what I was doing and I can assure you it will never happen again. I was just being stupid and had no idea what I was doing, thank you and sorry again. Thank you for all the help, I talked to some people and will hopefully get it resolved, but it's all good now thank you!
 * Done. 09:45, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Saloon Bar edit blocked by filter?
Hello. I tried to make a comment on the Saloon bar subthread 'Deport Neo Nazis first. Illegal immigrants can wait.' but it was blocked by the filters. The comment was in response to Rationalzombie94's 2nd post. I can't post it here either. Should I PM it to someone? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 13:18, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Na, I will just make you autopatrolled and you should be able to make the edit. 13:33, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Inline math rendering
It appears to me that RationalWiki's rendering of inline mathematical variables and expressions is rather clumsy. Consider the following bit:
 * ...where $$I(t)$$ is the current as a function of time, $$R$$ is the resistance, $$L$$ the inductance, and $$C$$ the capacitance.

And compare with with the same from Wikipedia. The variables don't stand on the same line. Is there a way to address this? Nerd (talk) 02:32, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * <==URL displayed here is not desirable, see above topic: Raw URL rendered at the end of a citation is displayed – Dbz (talk) 03:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Looks like there isn't much I can do then. Perhaps it will be fixed in the next software update. Nerd (talk) 03:38, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Looks like there isn't much I can do then. Perhaps it will be fixed in the next software update. Nerd (talk) 03:38, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

The english wikipedia uses 118% for math fonts. — span.mwe-math-mathml-inline { font-size: 118%; } per MediaWiki:Common.css

mw:Extension:Math

mw:Extension:Math/advancedSettings <title id="MathJax-SVG-1-Title">{\displaystyle L} <defs aria-hidden="true"> <path stroke-width="1" id="E1-MJMATHI-4C" d="M228 637Q194 637 192 641Q191 643 191 . . ."/> <g stroke="currentColor" fill="currentColor" stroke-width="0" transform="matrix(1 0 0 -1 0 0)" aria-hidden="true"> <use xlink:href="#E1-MJMATHI-4C" x="0" y="0"/> </g> Dbz (talk) 04:28, 16 January 2019 (UTC) && 18:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * RW renders as PNG: ...53921.png
 * WP renders as SVG: <svg xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="1.583ex" height="2.176ex" style="" viewBox="0 -791.3 681.5 936.9" role="img" focusable="false" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" aria-labelledby="MathJax-SVG-1-Title">
 * RationalWiki's math engine is two years older than Wikipedia's. But then RW is six MediaWiki versions out of date so that's to be expected really. 21:28, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That explains everything. The rendering is in PNG and so appears pixelated, which is not a problem for SVG. I have thought that the software RW is outdated, having spent some time at Wikipedia, but I did not know it was that outdated. Anyway, thanks! Nerd (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

History merging
After a discussion in the Saloon about copy-paste vs. moving pages from Draftspace to Mainspace (RationalWiki:Saloon_bar), it became apparent that there is a problem that the Special:MergeHistory should be able to solve. I knew that the Donald Trump page had been forked into several pages, so I tried the MergeHistory on one of the daughter pages (Trump-Russia connection), but it failed because "Source revisions overlap or come after destination revisions." Is there a way to fix this?

If not, might there be a way for pages moved out of Draftspace to Mainspace to get recorded as new Mainspace pages on here Special:NewPages? Bongolian (talk) 18:03, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Template: Annual Readership
Wikipedia has this but we don't. I think it could prove useful. Thoughts? Nerd (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, good idea. Bongolian (talk) 21:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's also reliant on some software we don't have, namely the wikitech:Analytics/AQS/Pageviews API relied on by the local version of mediawikiwiki:Template:Graph:PageViews which wikipedia:Template:Annual readership is a wrapper of. 22:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I suspected that. Can we import it? It is going to require a system upgrade? Nerd (talk) 23:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately this is not something included in MediaWiki core. Wikimedia maintains a Hadoop cluster for the purposes of analytics, and we simply don't have that. It would require significantly more than a simple upgrade to get that template to work here.
 * Of course we have some analytics, and we could simply put the numbers in a graph and mount that in the template. It would be static, less accurate, and generally inferior in ever way to the Wikimedia implementation, and it would need manual updates, but visually it would look the same. 01:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks! I guess we'll have to wait till the hypothetical day when we are as visible on search engines as Wikipedia. Only then will we have sufficiently high traffic volume to justify such an expenditure. Nerd (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Cover editnotice
The template gives a redlink for the cover abstract. See for example this page: Template:Editnotices/page/Evolution. This should be a simple fix. Bongolian (talk) 08:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Fixed. By replacing with .  12:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

If your IP is blocked from editing as an open proxy
It says "You need to go to your provider about it. The lists we use are xbl.spamhaus.org, dnsbl.tornevall.org, all.s5h.net."

Is this still an accurate list of lists? Are these cached? How exactly does this work in practice to block?

12:05, 1 February 2019 (UTC)