Essay talk:There is more Racism to White People than Black People

Feel free to correct spelling, formating and grammer. Cheers! 110.32.131.13 (talk) 07:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Please define white
When you say white people to whom do you refer? Looking at your essay I would hazard a guess that by black people you are referring to the descendent of people brought to America as slaves from Africa. But exactly what is white? 07:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


 * In this case, it shouldn't be me defining it but rather the FBI for the crime stuff, and for the Afermative action it is anyone in the caucasian genetic cluster identifed in The History and Geography of Human Genes. 110.32.131.13 (talk) 07:36, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The FBI for crime stuff. Wow, you amaze me with your intellect. 07:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * You aware that your definition of white as people from the Caucasian cluster makes Hispanics white? 07:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * "Caucasian" means "from the Caucasus" - I assume he's talking about racism against Turkic Muslims from Georgia. (The country, not the US state.) - David Gerard (talk) 07:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That is one definiton - and one I've never heard used in the real world. 110.32.131.13 (talk) 07:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Is "Black" euphamistic for all "non whites". Do you include hispanics in your definition?  How about Arabs, Indians, Chinese, Maoris etc etc.  This is not merely semantics - we cannot begin to appraise your argument if you do not define the relevant terms.  --DamoHi 07:56, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it matters what precise definition of "white" is used here, since it is referring to the cultural construct and not any anthropological set of people. 11:25, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Malcolm X
I strongly suggest you lose a lot of credibility when you include a quote by Malcolm X as support for your contention that there is more racism against "whites" than "blacks". Do you see why? --DamoHi 07:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Your Source
Your one source is The New Century Foundation - an organisation "dedicated to the ideal of the United States as a white European nation." Hardly unbiased. Bob Soles (talk) 10:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

UK
I'd say at the moment in the UK the majority of the racism is towards Asian (i.e. Indian / Pakistani) people. How does that fit in with your essay? 10:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Nick Griffin would disagree with you - David Gerard (talk) 10:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Shame. 11:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * From a US perspective, racism is always the "black vs white" style - in general I suppose this would be "white vs non-white". However, the overall problem of the question "is there more racism to Group A or Group B" is that the issue is complex. Quantifying it in such a way is difficult, if not impossible. Though an interesting spanner in the works would be racism between groups that we - as ignorant white folk - lump together by virtue of "not being us". Think of the third series of Skins where those charver scum are calling a shop keeper a "paki" and he responds "I'm Indian! I fucking hate those pakis!!". An old gag, of course, but very true and indicative of how complex the situation actually is. 12:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The mother-in-law (Indian Hindu) is quite racist towards Muslims. I don't know what to think sometimes! 12:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Indian born friends of mine find British-Indians stereotypically annoying, i.e. stingy, whiny, etc. Or is it the other way around...? 12:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And I find other white people really, really annoying. Is thinking that Tim Westwood is an arse for being white racist? 12:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. But no one cares about racism to white people. 12:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that when there aren't enough minorities around we go for the gingers. 12:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate Westwood because he's a twat. Doesn't matter what colour / religion he is. 12:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Correction
Noel Ignatiev is not as has never been a professor at Harvard. He was a non-resident tutor, a position which entails giving academic advice to a few undergrads in one dorm for a couple hours a month. --Benod (talk) 12:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

"Ironic, isn't it?"
So the American economic and education systems are unintentionally perpetuating racial inequality in favour of white folks, but attempts to remedy this inequality through affirmative action are racist because they discriminate against those same white folks? 17:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. Holding black people to a lower standard will fix everything.  Let's make it harder for Asians- who have also experienced persecution but have overcome it and continue to foster a respectable culture- to get into universities as well.  What is being said here is that there may be systems in place that work to keep children of poor families poor and children of rich families rich.  Do you realize that there are some black people who are more wealthy than some people who aren't black?  How is affirmative action fair to them?  Please, read this:  http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/pc.html--NoPetrol (talk) 21:45, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

This "Essay" is a load of crap
Sorry for opening up yet another section, but I'd like to offer a critique of several points that wouldn't fit under any of the existing headings. Here we go:


 * "Towards whom is there really more racism?" - You attempt to challenge the prevailing notion that Blacks are more often victims of racism, but you don't seriously address any of the points you yourself quote in support of it. Racism is certainly not a thing of the past, and an ethnic group that controls the overwhelming majority of the instruments of power and wealth creation is, on the whole, more likely to discriminate against others than be on the receiving end of racial discrimination. Regardless of motivations and attitudes, Whites simply have more opportunities to discriminate against others. Unless you assume that Whites are much, much less likely to racially discriminate against Blacks than the other way around (for which there is no evidence), their power advantage will always result in more suffering on the part of the Blacks.


 * "Racial inequality does not equal racism" - Racial inequality is the result of racism, and a state of affairs that needs to be changed in order to level the playing field. While affirmative action is itself a racist mechanism if you so will - it explicitly selects for skin colour, after all - such policies are indispensable to correct injustices that tend to persist otherwise. If black university applicants get more scholarships, this only serves as a counterweight to the fact that the average White is much more likely to come from a comparatively wealthy family and to have his career advancement determined by superiors from his own ethnic group. That said, I'm open to switching affirmative action programmes to class-based selection, but they hardly put Whites at a net disadvantage as they stand.


 * "How can we Measure Racism?" - Let me give you some advice: don't blindly trust statistics that are reported by advocacy organizations, try to track them down to the original source. Here's a direct link to the FBI statistics on hate crimes in 2007. Have a look at the "victims" section on racial bias: "Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2007, there were 4,956 victims of racially motivated hate crime. 69.3 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias." Oops.


 * "My Anicdotal (sic) Evidence" - First you declare quite correctly that the latter is irrelevant, then you post a long list of inflammatory anti-White statements. What's the point?

I read somewhere else that this "essay" was part of your school homework. Unless you're in 3rd grade or so, which might well be the case, it would fall far short of even the most lenient quality requirements. Then again, it nicely matches the usual intellectual ability of all those other fuckers complaining that Whites are now the victims of an institutional bias. Röstigraben (talk) 18:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Quotes
I remember that Noel Ignatiev quote being added to the anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white article; I couldn't find a source at the time, so I removed it. The first Malcolm X quote is also inaccurate. Balaam (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Never mind - didn't notice the dates, thought this was current and that the author was still around to argue with. Balaam (talk) 14:54, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

On Argument #2
"Can we use point number 2?" Of course we can. Institutionalized racism is the cause of all racism in this country! &mdash; Unsigned, by: 73.167.237.144 / talk
 * That isn't how institutional racism works. 01:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC)