Talk:Clyde Winters/Archive2

Wim van Binsbergen email response about Clyde Winters
Like I said, I would contact Binsbergen (who Clyde quotes above). Here is his response:

Clyde Winters is an old friend of mine, our correspondence goes back to the late 1990s. It has slackened over the past decade, I no longer have an active mail address of his, but since you seem to be on first names with him, I would be grateful if you could fiorward the present mail message to him, and (provided he gives his consent) his mail address to me.

Dr Winters is totally justified to quote me in support of his work. There is no distortion there, merely uncomfortable complexity and inner contradiction. I do disagree with the details, and I do disagree with the 'strong' version of Afrocentrism, which does have racist overtones. I know he is an educationalist and not a professional linguist, but that does not mean he is crazy in what he claims in linguistic matters. Nor is that the essence of what Afrocentrism is about, as you must be aware.

As suspected Binsbergen "disagrees with the details" (meaning Clyde's Afrocentrism). However Binsbergen attempts to distinguish a 'strong' form of Afrocentrism to a respectable 'weak' form. This seems like nonsense to me. No form of Afrocentrism is legitimate - its all pseudo-history, and note Binsbergen fails to provide examples of 'weak' vs. 'strong'. Binsbergen does understand though that what he calls 'strong' Afrocentrism has "racist overtones". However in my opinion he doesn't do enough to oppose this, i.e. he considers black supremacist loons like Clyde Winters to even be his friends. Weird. Krom (talk) 20:59, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

This stuff gets more ridiculous


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=010446

Clyde now claims King James was Black. Krom (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, one of the muppets in the thread linked to this other thread containing the same nonsense by (mis)identifying supposedly African elements ("Look at the hair!"), claiming that skin colours have been "whitened" in portraits that clearly show the subjects as lily white, and insisting that crudely stamped coins are evidence that the subjects portrayed on them had African features (sigh). ScepticWombat (talk) 14:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * lol, why did this not surprise me:
 * Dr. Layton denied that he had observed Mr. Winters' appearing depressed and said "he was not moody but sensitive to any criticism and would withdraw and verbally strike out if someone tried to explain something to him. When asked to rate Mr. Winters Dr. Layton said "I would rate him below average, marginal. I was pleased when he moved. We couldn't fire him because of the times... When asked about how he would feel about Mr. Winters being a policeman in his neighborhood he said, "I worry about him, it's that he carries a heavy load of hostility and that would scare me. He seems like he had a lot of unfulfilled needs and wants and I would not want him to be in charge of other people.
 * This is what a former employer of Clyde Winters had to say about him. Clyde had applied to join the Chicago Police, but failed a psychological evaluation. Its well known he's mentally ill, that explains a lot why he's an Afrocentrist racist and his bizarre internet behavior.Krom (talk) 16:52, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't about his mental health, but Winters' behaviour in that thread, bizarre claims and extremely combative and abusive responses to any criticism, would seem like internet trolling, if not for the sheer persistence which clearly marks him as a crank. Note especially his reaction to the critic who goes by the handle "the lioness" who, with the patience of a saint, tries again and again to explain to Winters that his ideas are in(s)ane. Winters go full persecution complex + conspiracy theory at the end of the thread with this rant:
 * You can send it to whom ever you wish. Although I have known for years that you are a White Supremacist agent--even when you had associates that helped you to publish 24/7, I tried to give you respect, but after Tukuler banned Mike, your lying became too extreme and contemptible.

You pretend to be Black--but we believe ethnically, and spiritually that you are a liberal white supremacist. You are a liar and white supremacist-propagandist so I can't believe much you publish relating to Black people outside Africa and in ancient history.

After teaching for over 40 years, especially white undergraduate and graduate students, I have patience that allowed me to ignore your comments. Comments which are not stupid--but strategic--aimed at highjacking the history of Black people and reaching your main goal to cause confusion and give brain washed people "ammunition" to sustain their support of the history the Academe has taught them. I can not allow you to spread anymore lies about Afro-American history.
 * I mean how can anyone take someone like that seriously (unless they already inhabit Winters' racist, paranoid, fringe subculture, of course)? It's like reading something off some white supremacy website, but simply with the roles reversed. I mean the guy actually thinks that not only is some vast white supremacy conspiracy fabricating history to hide black people's role, but also that this shadowy conspiracy has agents dedicated to posting on his crappy website. Just like other paranoid cranks, had Winters lived in the pre-internet age, he would have been reduced to handing out badly mimeographed flyers and newsletters at the local bus stop, running his crankery as a mail order enterprise, or perhaps frothing into a microphone on some obscure radio station or something. ScepticWombat (talk) 17:54, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, only except that user "Lioness" actually is impersonating someone, and is a notorious troll themselves. If you look at this recent thread you will see another user recently admitted to impersonating a female on that forum, and "Lioness" responded: "It's interesting how through the internet people can expand themselves and role play. I've used male names, it's fun, loosen up and stop being old". In actual fact this is not a real female, but a male that has dozens (if not more) sockpuppets on Egyptsearch. That whole forum is like a mental asylum.Krom (talk) 17:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You have too laugh, now a black supremacist nut called "Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor" is calling Rationalwiki "loons" after he read the entry on Egyptsearch and Clyde.Krom (talk) 22:30, 1 September 2015 (UTC)