Talk:Mind-Energy forum

Is there any reason this article was locked? The way it was written is beyond ridiculous. Obviously some guy had some sort of vendetta against the forum and has made a tonne of stuff up. Apparition (talk) 11:00 am, 11 November 2013, Monday (9 days ago) (UTC+2)
 * I apologize, I wrote the article as kind of spoof... I'm not editing this website anymore... I don't have a problem with your edits. Take care. David1234 (talk) 11:33 am, 11 November 2013, Monday (9 days ago) (UTC+2)


 * (EC) No idea why it was locked, but the looking through the edit history, it was unwarranted. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 11:34 am, 11 November 2013, Monday (9 days ago) (UTC+2)


 * Wow something on this talk page. What is it with people wiping this talk page the moment it opens?--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 10:30 pm, 13 November 2013, last Wednesday (7 days ago) (UTC+2)


 * Even if there were potentially determination and classification issues regarding overlapping LD and OBE states - which I personally have never experienced such confusion due to several absolute differences between the two - who cares? If you are a semi- experienced OBEr, the dynamic, life-changing OBE quickly becomes your only focus.


 * The rest of the dream states imo ime are distractions. Fun like roller coasters and equally important in the overview of spiritual growth.


 * OBE/astral travel is about highest level learning and when one alters and focuses their consciousness outside of the material plane, everything else drifts off in importance. Forests Tyler Snotgern MU (talk) 7:22 pm, 15 November 2013, last Friday (5 days ago) (UTC+2)


 * And how exactly is this related to the posts you are replying to?--ZooGuard (talk) 8:13 pm, 15 November 2013, last Friday (5 days ago) (UTC+2)


 * It's an impersonation/troll account. I do know Forests, he invited me to this website, we hold some of the same interests but I am more skeptical than he is. MU was originally trolling Forests, but Forests apologized to MU for his comments and has made peace with MU and they became friends. Lots of the stuff that people accused MU of doing has turned out to be false and Forests has apologized. The person doing the impersonations is trying to stir up trouble for them and has done this on various websites including this one on various names. I don't know who it is but both Forests and MU are not liked by believers or skeptics, so it could someone they have annoyed (both Forests and MU were members of the Skeptiko forum but were banned). Forests is a militant skeptic of mediumship but endorses dowsing and ESP, theistic evolution etc (but argues they all have a naturalistic explanation), he does not fit in with the paranormal believer or skeptic camp and it greatly confuses people so in response they usually end up trolling him, and skeptics such have Jon Donnis have done this. Forests has retired from the debunking business, and only researches the subject occasionally he told me. As for Tyler Snotgern, he is a member from the skeptiko forum not sure who he is and not bothered. You could easily delete this article if it is causing trouble for you. Alex Tsakiris has an article, so not much would be lost. Best. David1234 (talk) 5:08 am, 16 November 2013, last Saturday (4 days ago) (UTC+2)

Tyler Snotgern is MU, you can tell because he's the only person on the forum to refer to Bible quotes and to something called "The Od" (Odic force) which is a name he used before Jon Donnis exposed it. The Od is a name taken from the Catholic priest Johannes Greber to refer to some kind of spiritual fluid, probably influenced by Carl von Reichenbach's work on the "Odic force". Alex the admin of the skeptiko forum has unbanned any users who were previously banned, so technically anyone is welcome on the forum including trolls such as Jon Donnis, Forests and Eveshi, so MU is not breaking any rules. It wouldn't surprise me if Eveshi, MU etc were the same person. They are most likely sock-puppets of Craig Weiler and his companion Rome Viharo. Interesting Ian (talk) 7:11 am, Today (UTC+2)


 * Nope I'm not MU. MU used to fake me on the internet but he stopped doing it, like he has stopped faking Forests. There's peace all around now so the person behind these sock-puppets is just trying to stir trouble each of us. MU, Forests and myself are all innocent. We have all gone our separate ways and made peace. Weiler is not involved with it, neither is Viharo. The person who has a notorious internet history is Jon Donnis, he's been banned on even skeptic forums for insulting people and for fake accounts, now I am not saying all this trolling is him but he has played part of it. He claims to be the number one skeptic and to own people. But he is a pseudoskeptic, for example he claims various paranormal phenomena are impossible before even researching them. Donnis has abused Forests, MU and myself. He insults both believers and skeptics. I'm not going to insult Donnis but he does spend his time arguing with people on the internet. I will archive this page to stop further vandals posting conspiracy theories. Eveshis (talk) 7:50 am, Today (UTC+2)

Delete article please vote
Delete - You need to delete the article because the skeptics Jon Donnis and Zooguard or someone else keeps trolling it and making sock puppets of the paranormal believers Eveshi, Forests and MU. It is also inaccurate because Mind-Energy is no longer associated with Skeptiko. So you have a completely inaccurate article. Scott (talk) 09:04, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

MU Snotgern - I Am the One
I had MU-Tyler Snotgern BANNED from the Sketiko forum. It was me. Alex Tsakiris does what I tell him to do on this forum. I worked hard and yes I have a lot of brown on my nose but now I am elite and a Moderator with great powers.

MU-Tyler crossed me, he's English toast and his colour is burnt. Snotgern is a sockpuppet account employed by someone connected with Rome Vihiro to stir up trouble between believers and skeptics over the Rupert Sheldrake issue. He's posted problems on Weiler's psi blog in the past and has an obsession with stalking JREF members. He posts as Tyler Snotgern on the skeptiko forum and he previously abused people on the username MU. He has a long history of impersonating people. He's targeted Jon Donnis (founder of the bad psychics forum) and other people on different websites. He came after me and I kicked his buttocks. It's best to ignore the issue. Michaellarkin (talk) 05:50, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * lol i have NO idea what you're talking about here I dont even know who that is, but please, don't let that stop you! I look forward to seeing who I am next. RomeViharo (talk) 07:31, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I have banned your IP address from my new forum www.skeptiko.com › Forums and have matched your IP address to that of MU/Jon Donnis. Why lie, Viharo? You need to get back to your buddy Chuckles Weiler who you have completely fooled into thinking you are his ally.

I (Alex and I) do not want your kind on our forum any longer. Off you go! 77.247.181.163 (talk) 22:21, 17 January 2014 (UTC)MichaelLarkin

Please delete article or merge to Alex Tsakiris
Guys/Girls

This article is truly appalling. The Mind-Energy forum is not the Skeptiko forum (they are now un-related). Many of the references linked to are dead, inaccurate or just plain wrong, or posted for deliberate libel. There has also been various troll accounts posting nonsense in the article and basically all over this talk-page in some sort of stupid war between believers and skeptics. The article is futile and should have no existence, it is off mission not even notable. You can also check the fossil record and we see the admin actually deleted it many months ago but it was re-created again by a troll account, amongst other trouble-makers from the forum or elsewhere impersonating each other. I request for this article to be nuked or directly merged to the Alex Tsakiris article where the skeptiko podcast is already mentioned. The reason I take interest in this is because someone in the past keeps mentioning one of my usernames on here. I have read other complaints about this from other people. Just delete or merge this bunch of crap. I have tried to do this but keep getting deleted. Please respond so we can sort this. Evolutionist (talk) 06:07, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you please provide examples of those references that are "deliberate libel" or "just plain wrong"? Frederick♠♣♥♦ 18:07, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

As you wish see below:

Errors/Libel

 * Until 2013, when Skeptiko got its own forum after a falling out between Tsakiris and Mind-Energy.net's owner.

The forum owner fell out with Tsakiris did he? Not a shred of evidence for this, as far as I know they are friends. The admin of the Mind-Energy is even a member on Tsakiris new forum. What's the point in posting libel like this? It's deliberate lies. You can easily contact the admins of these websites but you never do. You sit here for months and make up stuff about this forum.


 * The forum is filled with posts claiming that everything from ectoplasm, levitation, angels, fairies, extraterrestrials, mediumship to remote viewing and reincarnation have been proven by science.

This isn't fully true. Rarely any of the members believe in ectoplasm or levitations. The comment about fairies is wrong as far as I know only one user mentioned them. No mention of people on the forum believing in angels.


 * Some users are also creationists, and most users on the forum support forms of intelligent design.

This isn't true. Only one member from the mind-energy forum was a creationist/Ider but he's since left the forum (he was even banned once). 99% of the members accept evolution.


 * The users on the forum are critical of "materialism", and reject what they term "material science".

But not all of them do, there's skeptics on the forum who dispute those claims and many members from the JREF forum joined the forum to debate. They do not all dispute materialism.


 * Considering that science is the study of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment, it is unclear with what they want to replace science.

There's no evidence they want to replace science with anything, just acknowledge that consciousness has a fundamental role.


 * Forum members have cited the woo of Bruce Greyson, Brian Inglis, Dean Radin and Rupert Sheldrake.

Which isn't the full truth. Inglis has never as far I can see be mentioned. Some of the members take issue with Sheldrake's ideas.

Most of the users on the forum either reject evolution, or deny common descent for humans.


 * This is a lie, as discussed before only one user was a creationist/Ider but he left the forum (check his history, he was even banned once).

Popular threads include "Clearing the materialist myth of no peer reviewed ID papers"


 * Yes all old threads started by a user who left the forum.

The forum is also known for promoting intelligent design books.


 * The book by Thomas Nagel was not really an ID book it was philosophical, and there's no evidence the forum has "promoted" it but just discussed it's content on a thread.

'''For what it's worth, I saw loads of these on one occasion in my life, while camping in the Santa Cruz mountains back in 1977 or so. I watched what looked like almost a hundred of these guys as they did whatever they were doing in the forest. I watched for about 15-20 minutes solid, all the while trying to talk myself out of believing what I was seeing.'''


 * This is a very old comment by Andrew Paquette. I believe he has since retracted this claim. It was added to try and embarrass him. I don't think this comment is needed. Like I said a very old comment and Paquette is no longer active on the forum.

Andrew Paquette the admin of the forum claiming he has seen fairies


 * False information. Paquette is not the admin of the mind-energy forum. Apparently he is a co-admin on the new Skeptiko forum.

'''The environment in the afterlife is subjective in that it is created by thought. But you have to remember that spirits are telepathic so they can share reality.'''


 * This is a an old comment made by a user who was banned from the forum. It is a single view from a single member, it doesn't represent the entire forum.

An example of the typical kind of woo comments you see on the Mind-Energy forum.


 * There may we some "woo" on the forum, but there's also some good stuff. You are cherry-picking outdated or bad examples to try and make the forum look stupid.

'''Helen Duncan in a séance with fake spirits. Click to enlarge. According to members of the forum Duncan was a genuine psychic'''


 * This is a deliberate error. A user from the forum did a survey on the Duncan photographs and practically every active forum member admitted the photographs do not reveal real spirits, many members from the forum have posted Duncan was not a genuine psychic, only one (banned) member claimed she was genuine. Even the member who added this information (banned) has acknowledged he was wrong. This is also a dead link.

My original suggestion stands please delete this article or merge it. The way it is, is extremely inaccurate and only embarrasses rational wiki. The fact the admins do nothing to delete people posting trollish comments everywhere is also a sign what sort of place this is. Please fix this, just delete it. Please note the admin already deleted this article many months ago, users here are speechless on this yet seem to be happy to have it restored to an inaccurate article riddled with stupid errors. You only embarrass yourselves and your website. Please fix this. Evolutionist (talk) 18:59, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Rationalwiki editors are silent I see, they have no response for their errors, libel and trolling but just revert me without any reply at all. Evolutionist (talk) 22:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

User David Gerard recent edits, adding photograph of Helen Duncan for no reason
The user David Gerard keeps re-adding a photograph of the medium Helen Duncan with puppet mask like faces. Firstly the reference is broken but the actual reference itself doesn't even mention the photograph, secondly a user from the forum rebutted this in a poll. As you can see 40 members from the forum replied the photographs are not real spirits, 0 replied they were real. I only ever see one user claiming they were real but he has been banned. No active members from the forum believe those stupid photographs of Duncan are real spirits. This is a deliberate attack on the forum, even the original (banned) user who added it has since retracted his claim. Would you like to explain why you keep adding the photograph David? And when you revert people please make an edit summary. Evolutionist (talk) 22:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The caption doesn't say that members think those sprits were real rather that Duncan was a legitimate medium, which the reference supports. The photo was likely chosen to show the absurdity of that. WatcherIntheDark (talk) 23:12, 13 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The reference given is this (which is actually broken on the article). Now read the link, you will see that only one member "Sandy B" claimed in her own words Helen Duncan was a genuine psychic, but look more closely because of her abusive posts she was banned from the forum and all her comments were deleted (they only appear in other peoples quotes). So the statement many users from the forum believe Helen Duncan is a genuine psychic is false, only one user did and she was banned (her comments were even removed). Like I linked to above another user did a poll and 40 users from the forum claimed Duncan was not a genuine psychic. Which ever way you look at it you are incorrect for using the photograph, it needs to be deleted but every time I delete it I am reverted. Evolutionist (talk) 00:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Admittedly, not one of our best articles
Ugh. The intro is OK...but then the article gets into "person A once stated B" etc. No wonder the talk page is always in chaos. It badly needs to be rewritten as an overview, more along the lines of the Above Top Secret and Godlike Productions articles. Leuders (talk) 23:58, 13 January 2014 (UTC)


 * It's an embarrassing article filled with incorrect information, errors and a history of trolling. Firstly why was it even created, then re-created? It was originally deleted but then restored to stupid versions by obviously banned members from the forum. Why do you need an article on a forum? Secondly the forum is not even notable. The article should just be deleted or merged to Alex Tsakiris. Please fix the article if you get the time or keep it at some sort of stub. The stuff about creationism is totally false. Only one user (no longer active) held that view. Id would rather it would be deleted. Yet none of your fellow rationalwiki editors seem to care. Evolutionist (talk) 00:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of merging this page with the Alex Tsakiris page. I'd never heard of this forum until this recent edit war, and the current article is obviously written by someone who was upset with the forum. It seems to be just another New Age woo forum, and the only significance is the relation with Skeptiko. Frederick♠♣♥♦ 02:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Good riddance to it - David Gerard (talk) 08:32, 14 January 2014 (UTC)