Talk:Japan/Archive1

Whaling
I have put the bit about 'direct action' against Japanese whaling ships in somewhat more neutral language. I know we don't do NPOV here but describing Greenpeace as eco-terrorists will upset quite large portions of the mob. Silver Sloth 08:50, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * It wouldn't upset me at all for the record :). Greenpeace is pretty much a joke organisation at the moment compared to what it used to be, though not quite all the way to terrorism (that would be the ALF and co).  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:16, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * Greenpeace was not mentioned by name in this article at the time the Neutral Language was inserted. [[Image:Mjollnir.svg|20px]]ListenerXTalkerX 11:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'm not refering to GreenPeace here, I'm referring to Sea Sheperd, and as a Half-Japanese person myself, i don't like it when my compatriots come under attack from a bunch of cranks armed with Biuretic (?) acid. --[[Image:British coat of arms.png|25px]] Redcoat [[Image:British coat of arms.png|25px]] 06:02, 31 January 2009 (EST)17:21, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Kanji
I'm not sure who added the Kanji, but it's not the typical Japan 日本. Being that my Japanese is super basic, I don't know what it is, but could someone justify it before I delete it?-- 09:57, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Given how the Japanese love redundancy and stating the obvious, if you're referring to the country Japan then it should be "Japan-country" or Nippon-kokou which is 日本国. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:20, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * I did find that one, too, at wiki. choose which ever makes sense. but no Google, babel fish, nor anime.lab.com (i know, my Japanese is rooted in anime.  sue me) had the 5 character Japango, that I couldn't identify.  -- 10:44, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Purely FYI, but if anyone cared what i deleted, after much google, wp, and japan dictionary, i finally found The Empire of Japan (Kyūjitai: 大日本帝國; Shinjitai: 大日本帝国; pronounced Dai Nippon Teikoku; literally Great Imperial Japan or Great Empire of Japan, officially Great Japan, Empire of Greater Japan or Greater Japanese Empire; more widely known as Imperial Japan or the Japanese Empire) was a Japanese political entity that existed during the period from the Meiji Restoration in 1868 until its defeat in World War II in 1945. (wikipedia) Not that anyone cares but me, i just had to know...heheheh-- 11:34, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Aha, a kindred anime fan. Although if you say something silly like "Naruto is the greatest!" I'm going to have to hunt you down and do terrible things to you. --PsyGremlinWhut? 12:07, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * RW is full of anime fans.  12:19, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Ureshii! (said purely to drive Kels mad, knowing how she hates fan-person Japanese *grin*) --PsyGremlinWhut? 12:32, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Let's see, in no particular order, a few of my favorites are "Wolf's Reign/rain?", Witch Hunter Robin, this totally silly show Moishiman (about microbes...), yakitate Japan (also cute), Fruits basked (of course), and Monster. Oh, and one about Maj-gong, but i can't remember it's name.     and and and "to-to-to, totoro, to-to-to, totoro".  :D-- 12:52, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

Mmmm concur on WHR and Moyashimon. (Akagi was the mah-jong one, I think - I liked the one by the same guys: Kaiji). Also Gunslinger Girl, Genshiken, Bokura no, Kaiba (which is just geogeous) and Azumanga Daioh. Ok... back on topic. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Psygremlin / talk / contribs
 * As for me, I mostly love anything & everything by Hayao Miyazaki &/or Studio Ghibli. Other than that, just a few random things like Hellsing & Cowboy Bebop.  I've got a DVD of Witch Hunter Robin which I've had for months now but haven't got around to starting on yet (I'm waiting til I finish Bebop first).  I've seen the first few episodes of Wolf's Rain & thought it was OK.  Haven't heard of most of those other things you guys mentioned.   13:39, 20 March 2009 (EDT)
 * Oi!, who reverted my subtle edits to the Kanji?!-- 23:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

homosexuality in Japan
Something I would like to bring in this article. I would like mention that fact that Japan is more tolerant towards homosexuality than in the United States mostly due to the fact that unlike United States, Japanese society has no religious or moral condemnation towards homosexuality. But I'm not sure what or how to say this nor the sources I should give out, any ideas?--Dark Paladin X 05:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure 🇰🇪 could help, but probably not constructively. How about a section called "Attitudes toward homosexuality", and just write what you said above + more?  05:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm...we don't have an article relating to attitudes towards homosexuality, we should create one. Be sure you guys help out because I can't do it alone. --Dark Paladin X 23:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sources → Any BL(Boy's Love)/Yaoi manga/anime you can find (Alternatively, the Yuri(Lesbian) ones), pretty much. Especially the dojin arts.  If there is any need for condemnation the Japanese people would start there.  I don't know about Bisexuality and transgender (specifically, those with a surgery instead of Magic) however.  So there is still lack of Gay Superheroes in US comic market these days?   05:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't Superman gay? And Batman?  And pretty much all those buff gentlemen in tights?  07:17, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There are signs... --Kels (talk) 04:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe, thanks! I always suspected... all those Men of Steel and those who Dress Up As Mice With Wings, all the time at the gym... and the YMCA... 04:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * STAHP. Japan is still homophobic; social conservatism needs no religious justification for its awfulness....... TokenSkepticMagicianLITERALLY SATAN 21:20, 10 June 2015 (JST)

ummm...is Japan really socially conservative?
The Japanese are generally socially conservative, with a heavy emphasis on conformity and group identity.

No offense, but I think Japan is considered to be one of the most liberal societies (in Western standards). Homosexuality is highly tolerated in Japan (and even when Japan allied with a highly homophobic and racist regime during World War II, they aren't really racist or homophobic and didn't bought into the Nazi demands in regards to race and sexuality. In fact, Japan even provided refuge for the Jewish people to escape from the said regime. More details here). Political correctness isn't really bought into in the entertainment industry in Japan. And contrary to popular belief, racism does not equal to xenophobia. The Japanese are xenophobic, not racist. Also, not to mention that a large majority of the population believe that global warming is a threat and they also do have some form of universal health care. In addition, they aren't that overly religious and try to fully incorporate religion into their lives despite many Japanese attending some Buddhist/Shinto festivals and observances (I forgot to mention that some Japanese many identify themselves as Shinto AND Buddhist AND atheist/agnostic at the same time).--Dark Paladin X (talk) 04:11, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can find that their main political parties are described as Liberal Democrat. But if I was being realistic, I don't think Japanese culture even fits on the scale. In some social respects, they're very liberated and indeed, what someone in the US would describe as Liberal with the Capital L, but in other respects they really are very conservative (with the small c) because they're very strong with tradition and maintaining their status quo (at least the post-WWII quo). In other words, it's probably a little more complicated than that. 04:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I still think Japan is very socially liberal, particularly when it comes to homosexuality. I mean, look at their yaoi/yuri manga and anime.  Not to mention, the Japanese society doesn't fully incorporate religion into their lives.  Incorporating religion into your lives and society is a common characteristic of social conservatism. Did I mention they don't buy into political correctness?--Dark Paladin X (talk) 01:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Pre-WWII, they were more socially conservative. If I might recommend a film from my collection, I would suggest watching Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai. Regarded by some critics as the greatest Japanese film of all time, parts of the plot deal with the changes in Japanese society following their defeat to the Americans. Granted, you would have to sit through three hours of black and white subtitles (and in my case, 2 VHS tapes)--Tabris (talk) 01:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * DPX, you seem to be muddling political & social conservatism. Yes, Japan is relatively liberal & modern on issues such as homosexuality, environmentalism.  However, many aspects of Japanese life are heavily influenced by tradition, etiquette, conformity & social expectations.  As examples, there are specific forms of language & deference used for certain situations (e.g. talking to one's boss); companies expect their employees to put their career ahead of time with their family; young people are often under pressure from their parents to find a prosperous career and a good marriage match; public displays of affection such as kissing (straight or gay) or heavily disapproved of.  Religious traditions are pretty important to the Japanese, especially those of Shinto, even if the Japanese don't consider themselves "religious" as such.   19:59, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been living in Japan for 8 years as of now, and I can attribute to the conservative nature of Japan; Weaseloid is spot on. The focus on group mentality and 'outsiders' of any sort being generally discouraged is rampant. Although homophobia isn't as rabid or overt as the States, it still does exist, and gay people cannot legally marry in Japan. They also focus on traditional values (in the classical conservative definition), and gender roles are still reinforced. In fact, there is a popular saying that goes (and I may be paraphrasing) 'The nail that sticks out gets hammered down', meaning essentially 'people that want to be an individual will get put back into their place'. So yeah...... Japan is hella conservative. While we're on the subject, 'Liberal Democratic Party' is a HUGE misnomer; they're essentially the Tory/Republican/Tea Party of Japan. TokenSkepticMagician LITERALLY SATAN 14:41, 28 July 2014 (JST)

Tone of the Article - language section
I read the language section here and it's really... awkward at best. it seems to be trying to thread the needle between "funny" and "serious" and failing at either. any thoughts?--En attendant Godot 14:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Very little if any of it is really needed. We don't have (& probably wouldn't want) comparable comments about other langugaes in our country articles.  16:59, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've trimmed it back to much as it was a few months ago but it's still pretty unnecessary. 19:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah.... so is the food section. whaling and religion are likely relevant to what we do here.  can we nix the language and food sections?  will it kill anyone to say "wanna learn about the language go to wiki P"--[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   Get over it!. 20:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No objection from me. 20:11, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

racism in japan
The section "racism in japan" seems to conflate (if i'm using that word correctly) two distinct ideas - racism and ethocentrism. I'm not convinced we really are addressing racism in this section (though it does exist, especially against the dark skinned, southern okinawa people) and perhaps more ethnocentrism adn xenophobia. My knowledge of japan is 2nd hand, via Dramas and anime and a husband who translates for a living. So I am hesitant to change much until or unless anyone around with personal experience chimes in. --Godot  19:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. I'm not very comfortable with the phrase "devotion to racism", as I think it's oversimplifying Japanese attitudes to the country's culture & ethnicity for the sake of being (deliberately?) provocative.  Japan can certainly be very inwardly focused, and ideas about Japan and the Japanese being inherently "special" are still commonplace.  These issues should be mentioned, but I think characterising them purely in terms of racism is rather crude & simplistic.  19:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * *cough* Rising Sun*cough* Тyrannis An iron, but caring, fist 19:48, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Japan is racist as fuck; trust me. They actually have places with 'Japanese Only' signs on the outside. And they mean it; even if you're half-Japanese and culturally are completely Japanese effectively, they won't let you in. There are other examples as well, but that's just one major one. TokenSkepticMagician LITERALLY SATAN 14:52, 28 July 2014 (JST)
 * Can you support your claim that Japan is that racist, TokenSkepticMagician? I already believe this, but I never thought it goes that far. Dandtiks69 (talk) 06:23, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. Granted, some of this is anecdotal (apologies in advance) but I've been living in Japan for almost 9 years now, and as a minority over here (even one that doesn't get shafted as bad as other minorities), I've seen and experienced racism first hand over here. I've previously discussed the 'Japanese Only' signs, which are perhaps one of the most visible manifestations of xenophobia, but there still is a HUGE amount of other racism in Japan, from housing agencies and landlords refusing foreigner customers, to the 'foreigner seat phenomenon', where Japanese people, even occasionally on crowded trains, will take pains to avoid sitting next to foreigners, which is really tip-of-the-iceberg stuff. There is also state-sponsored racism to an extent, thanks to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's involvement (among other prominent politicians) with the Nippon Kaigi, a reactionary, revisionist, racist ultra-nationalist organization that is depressingly influential in Japanese politics, not to mention his former education advisor's stance on apartheid and foreigners.

Here are some other links on the subject:  TokenSkepticMagicianLITERALLY SATAN 21:12, 10 June 2015 (JST)
 * Thank you, TokenSkepticMagician, I am reading these articles you recommended me. But before I get to some more of these, a question: do you believe it happens everywhere in Japan or in most parts? Some tourist places, I suppose, would have to tolerate Americans and Europeans and other Asian ethnicities, or is that not so either? I know that in the U.S. California isn't as racist as Arizona, though both still have it. Do you know if the difference is as vast in some parts of Japan as in others? Dandtiks69 (talk) 23:07, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry for such a late response. Yes; even in areas with a large foreigner population (Yokosuka, for example) there exists discrimination; in fact I would say it's even more pronounced, although again this is largely anecdotal. TokenSkepticMagicianLITERALLY SATAN 20:58, 28 July 2015 (JST)
 * Thank you. Dandtiks69 (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Illuminati finally speaks out from Japan!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yqmE5I5OG8 They exist! Wow! They finally revealed themselves!--67.5.250.119 (talk) 22:46, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Wingnut hard-on for Japan
There are tons of Wingnuts, that very much like Japan for being "racially pure", as they put it, racist and not being apologetic about historic atrocities they committed. Of course, it's not as simple as these kooks put it, but it is a similar phenomenon like the right-wing hard-on for Putin.--Arisboch (talk) 19:24, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Depressingly, I've met some of these whackers. It's funny, because I live in Japan and have seen the Japanese whackers, and they would hate these foreigner wingnuts because they're not Japanese. TokenSkepticMagicianLITERALLY SATAN 21:18, 10 June 2015 (JST)

Anime and manga
I believe there should be a separate article or integrated section on anime and manga (all in the same page just to conform to RationalWiki's limited scope) so that it shows more about Japan's and America's societal expectations. Here's the thing: Japanese manga and anime are very liberal and ideal but the real social expectations are conservative, just like American sitcoms, shows, and novels depict the ideal family or lifestyle (feminist ideals, wealth) when in fact the US is still very conservative but riddled with problems. From my personal experience friends absolutely would like to visit Japan thinking that— based on their experience of anime, manga, and light novels— sexuality and social standards are liberal over there, when in fact it is otherwise! Please take this into consideration. Dandtiks69 (talk) 22:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC).
 * The animé and manga have also some subtext in that direction (e.g. that almost all yuri is about schoolgirls).--Arisboch (talk) 23:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * And that often enough all "girl's love" is unrequited and/or that the supposedly lesbian characters go straight.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 00:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That I can agree on, but I was referring to having a separate article with that and with some of the most famous anime and manga and light novels in order to criticize some of their attitudes, but not all because they have their own cultural differences. It shouldn't be anything too serious, after all this IS RationalWiki. Dandtiks69 (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm working on it over here. 18:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)