Talk:Paleo diet/Archive1

Over the edge
This page seems over the edge as far as criticism goes. It needs to be neutralized, or if not that at least have a positive alternate viewpoint presented.
 * Why? i9 21:17, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * There is not one single fact in the "research" of the paleo group. I think we could have been even more harsh.  it is anti science, anti general health, anti nutritionist, and pretty much anti common sense.  But some people will praise it as the best diet.  THAT IS DANGEROUS.  period.[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot    Dear god, fucking grow up 21:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Anti common sense? How is this so, when the american guidelines are low fat low cholesterol, while human breastmilk, and practically every other nutritional source that contains fats necessary for life(DHA/AA)(egg yolks, animal fat like butter lard tallow, organ meats) is contained in the food that the ADA and AHA recommend you not eat? http://www.archevore.com/ is a good place to start 75.139.32.32 (talk) 07:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Strawman arguments and badly researched.
Proponents claim that the human digestive system is adapted to the diet of the paleolithic era and has not evolved since

Incorrect. The claim is that the digestive system is very far from completely adapted. Lots of paleo bloggers and "leaders" acknowledge that humans have adapted. They question whether these adaptations suffice and maintain that you can be in better health by avoiding these neolithic agents. Tons of paleo dieters eat dairy.

In fact, for much of human existence, the wealthy became fat and their obesity was respected as a sign that they could afford to eat well and did not have to perform hard labor.

Is there any evidence of this outside agrarian societies?

Other claims, mostly lacking in empirical evidence, are that this diet can reverse arthritis, autism, chronic fatigue, heart disease, and other diseases which diet proponents claim are the result of a grain and dairy-based diet

I have yet to meet a paleo that claims all of this. There is however scientific evidence that gluten (which is avoided on the paleo diet) can be a cause of auto-immune diseases. Some of these diseases that you mention above can have auto-immune causes.

''Proponents counter that it is not a high-fat diet because meats from agriculture are high in fat while meats from wild game are lower in fat, and that it is also a high fiber diet because of the emphasis on raw fruits and vegetables - which is true in theory. Sadly, those attempting to follow this diet wind up finding it so difficult to follow in practice that they end up buying all of their "caveman food" from the supermarket and getting a high fat diet anyway. ''

First of all, relatively few paleos try to eat a low-fat paleo diet. Secondly, the second statement sounds like paleos should go around hunting deer or something. Why wouldn't they buy their food from the supermarket? Are the vegetables and fish higher in fat in the supermarket? If you buy lean meat, is it going to be magically less lean because you bought it in the supermarket?

''An interesting question of resource logistics comes up when discussing this diet. According to many scientists familiar with issues of world food supply, it is only because of a grain-based diet that the earth can sustain 6.8 billion people.''

Sources? Here's a source for you, that although doesn't discount what you say directly, indicates that things are a little bit more complex than you make it out to be. Large scale grain farming is destroying the world, not helping feed it. http://www.slashfood.com/2011/03/08/u-n-small-scale-farming-could-double-the-worlds-food-productio/

Just how far do you want to take this?

How does trying to eat like our ancestors lead to trying to live like our ancestors? There is a grain of truth in some the things you mention, but not because anyone is trying to take the paleo argument to it's "logical" conclusion. People fast intermittently, for instance, because research shows that it may improve ones health, not because it simulates the way things might have been back then. "Paleo re-enactment" is a big no-no among paleos.

This a badly researched article, and I expect better from rationalwiki. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 217.28.182.1 / talk / contribs
 * I removed the last paragraph, and someone has slapped a sourced-needed template on the article. 18:54, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was me. It's very lacking in sources and is fairly shitty in places. But I should also note that it isn't marked with a brainstar so I don't see the "I expect better" remark as anything other than concern trolling. 18:58, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Paleo "kooks"
Sorry for butting in again so soon, but I wanted to make a few more points. There is tons of broscience surrounding the paleo diet. There is also a lot of n=1 experiments, and it is in fact applauded, as many people are trying to fix health problems with their diet and different people respond to different variations of the diet. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence floating around, and yes it is chaotic. Many people are however claiming a lot of success with fixing their health issues, and recently there have been controlled studies comparing the paleo diet favorably to other diets in terms of blood lipid panels and other health markers.
 * If it's such a good diet, why does Cordain have to modify it so much, with things like "low fat chicken breasts". Where is the academic research beyond what is stated by Cordain who is not a nutritionist, he is a sports physiologist. [[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot    Dear god, fucking grow up 00:48, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if it's placebo-ish, it would still be preferable to scarfing down junk food all day. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 00:59, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, the luminaries of this diet are mostly rational. I know this is argument from authority, but I invite you to read these guys blogs or books and the research they quote, and form your own opinions.
 * The doctor who coined the term "The paleo diet" is Loren Cordain, PhD in Health. He is a Professor in the Department of Health and Exercise Science at Colorado State University.
 * A well respected Paleo blogger, Kurt Harris, is an MD specializing in radiology, and tries to separate the chaff from the wheat. He recently wrote a post condemning broscience in the paleo circle.
 * Stephen Guynet, who is paleo friendly, but advocates correctly prepared grains, is a PhD in neurobiology and is professionally, studying body fat regulation.
 * Petro Dobromylskyj, advocates a high fat diet, and goes through tons of research on his blog. He's a vet. His favorite is explaining nutritional research to us lay people and ripping badly designed studies to pieces. He's unorthodox, yes, but his science is good AFAICT.
 * Robb Wolf, the author of the paleo solution is a biochemist.
 * Art DeVany is the only luminary I can think of which is a complete kook.

s****
The fucking caption is not fucking funny and there is no fucking reason to fucking revert-war. I am changing the caption to a more sane one. --Ding dong finh os (talk) 06:38, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Someone whose first comment refers to us as "Motherfuckers" cannot expect their concerns to be taken seriously. --Scream!! (talk) 06:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * How about a different person with the same concern? What exactly does making articles inflammatory and childish accomplish? 72.204.2.126 (talk) 21:04, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It shows the fact that this diet is bad nutritionally, and bad overall.--[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   Dear god, fucking grow up 00:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Bronze
I feel that this article qualifies for bronze status. 01:49, 22 July 2011 (UTC)