RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive19

Server upgrade
With the software upgrades, a few things have changed. Here's a brief summary of the most important changes:


 * Vandal Brake
 * The vandal brake is now located at Special:VandalBrake and Special:VandalBin. The former is the interface for applying the brake on users, and is open to sysops only. The latter is a list of users in the bin, and an interface for paroling. Non-sysops may view the list.
 * There are several options available when vandal binning a user, similar to the block options, however there are some caveats:
 * Autoblock: This will bin IPs of a user, but since vandal binning is always infinite, be careful with this option.
 * Prevent account creation: When binning IPs, this does what it says. However, when binning users, it will only prevent the user from creating an account, not their IP. To prevent the user from creating an account by logging out first, you can use autoblock, since the autoblocked IP address will inherit this property.
 * The vandal brake accepts usernames as parameters: Special:VandalBrake/Nx


 * Intercom
 * The intercom is located at Special:Intercom. Groups are now located at MediaWiki:Intercom-list. The two main changes to the Intercom are the interface and handling of the Site wide (urgent) group.
 * The interface for writing new messages is very similar to the default editing interface, and provides a normal preview. Expiry is mandatory, and works. You may provide a summary for a message; this is recommended to make finding your message easier. Existing messages are listed on Special:Intercom without their contents, and can be opened individually. This is why the summary is recommended.
 * Messages from the Site wide (urgent) group are special in that anonymous users will see them, and every user is a member of the group by default, but may remove themselves (this is not recommended however). Because of the increased visibility of these messages, only bureaucrats may send them. In addition, bureaucrats may mark them as read for anonymous users (since anonymous users cannot do this). The latter option is available from the message list.
 * Most importantly, group memberships have been reset. Please go here to select your groups.
 * The intercom also accepts parameters. Special:Intercom/selectgroups takes you to the group configuration page, Special:Intercom/writenew takes you to the new message page, and message id parameters show the specified message, for example Special:Intercom/333.


 * Wigo & Bestof
 * Aside from background changes, both function similarly. By default, Bestof does not allow changing parameters, but it has an optional parameter, dynamic, which presents a form similar to the old one. This does not use javascript however, and instead reloads the page. Having two dynamic bestof tags on a page will cause both to change their settings simultaneously.


 * Signature cleaning
 * Signature cleaning has been disabled. You can now use template transclusion, e.g., as your signature. What this means is there's no need for the double template trick any more.


 * Imagelinks:
 * MediaWiki 1.14 supports links to arbitrary pages for images. Template:Imagelink has been updated, but using it is not recommended. Just add a link=target parameter, like this: [[Image:PHsig.jpg|link=User:Phantom Hoover]]( [[Image:PHsig.jpg|link=User:Phantom Hoover]] ) (use text-bottom to align: [[Image:PHsig.jpg|link=User:Phantom Hoover|text-bottom]]( [[Image:PHsig.jpg|link=User:Phantom Hoover|text-bottom]] ))

Please report problems to RationalWiki:Technical support. Thank you --  Nx / talk 19:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

EddyP for 'crat
A very handsome and intelligent user, though I have not yet had the pleasure of speaking with him. ETrundel 19:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * suspicion and marmite  20:07, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am completely neutral. EddyP 20:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't need gender information. 20:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No! He is an insane, biased Commie Mutant traitor, member of multiple secret societies and all round cad. Also, his first actions would be a Stalinesque power-grab, swiftly followed by a purge of all true anti-communist servants of The Computer, such as Broccoli 21:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It would have worked, had you not shown that you magically had access to ETrundel's email messages.  18:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * >:O Damn! I'll get you next time, Team Laser Explosion! Come, The Pigeon! EddyP 19:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Coo. ETrundel 19:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

An Idea....
Now, after CUR's recent outbreak (see talk:felidae for the most recent shit) I have a proposal. He is going to hate this but fuck him. He said he was leaving but saw more discussion on the future of Felidae. It was in no danger of being deleted, most likely it would have been moved to Fun. However CUR broke silence and again caused a nightmare. What I propose has probably never been done nor never wanted to have done. I say we block and delete his account. I dont want to ban him outright, no we dont do that round here. But this may force him to stop, think, recreate under a new persona and become a valued editor. This isnt because I want rid of him, just rid of his current state. Thoughts? Ace McWickedbitch and moan 22:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That didn't work for SusanG, won't work for me. Though I would like a rename to Arthropleurus. -- 22:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay I have renamed you, I'll email you the password for ConservapediaUndergroundResistor. It is up to you to clean up the mess. - User   23:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The blocking sounds good since he made a big deal about leaving for at least a week anyhow. But I'm not really sure what the point to deleting his account is.  It's not like making a new account changes his personality or makes him grow up about two years or anything. --Kels 22:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sick of listening to him. Can I write an extension that replaces everything he writes with the Cheetah Man image? -- 22:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, can you? Can you make it a personal monobook thing, where we can replace anything he writes with the template of our choice?  00:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * @Jeeves - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Do it man! Ace McWickedbitch and moan 22:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No to all of this. Would be a really bad precedent & really unnecessary; desysoping is enough. Surely everyone who has been even remotely paying attention to events of the past six months must have known that CUR would leap to the defense of the Felidae article the moment deletion was proposed yet again, notwithstanding his alleged departure.  Using his defense of the article as an excuse for really un-RationalWiki-ish steps against him strikes me as very unfair.   22:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I know weasel, just throwing ideas around ya know. I am just so sick of it. How about a blanket ignore CUR rule? Again, unRationalWiki though. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 22:52, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have the extension to delete users here; we do on RWW, and the special page isn't there. 07:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Deleting users is not possible, except users without any edits at all. On RWW I installed an extension that can merge users, and delete the user whose edits got merged into the other one. -- Nx  / talk 18:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I fucked up...
Vandal binned Fall down, disabled account creation, can't figure out how to undo that...TheoryOfPractice 18:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Special:VandalBin -- Nx  / talk 18:40, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You do know that the IP is still binned, right? -- Nx  / talk 18:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * no. No i don't. TheoryOfPractice 18:47, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I win


So what do I get? ENorman 19:34, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Nothing. Random chance is now dealt with by the slot machine. 19:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I got that yesterday and printscreened it. Then I got it five more times. Don't think its random anymore. EddyP 19:37, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Relevant thread is relevant. -- Nx  / talk 19:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

TOP and Human
They're going on a little deleting spree, deleting pages that they have decided arbitrarily, without a consensus, must be deleted. I'd clean up after then, but as most people here know, I don't have that ability. -- 20:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * CUR, STFU & GO TO BED. 20:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ToP went bye-bye, but it had nothing to do with our pet twerp. 07:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

First break up therapy
What would you say to a young person going through their first ever break up out of their first "real relationship"? Highschool senior age range. Any suggestions? tmtoulouse 22:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really think there's much you can say that isn't cliche ("More fish in the sea", "if you love them, set them free" etc). I mean, everyone has their first soul-crushing experience sooner or later, it's just something we have to learn to cope with in our own way. How did my friends help me overcome it? By getting me drunk and taking me wo manizing, worked for me. Some people need time, others need their friends, some need to hop into bed with the next available person, there's no set remedy which is why it's so hard to help someone overcome it the first time. The only certainty is that the sooner they realize that the first relationship is only supposed to be practice they have a whole lifetime to find love, the easier it'll be for them, so I'd stress that point. Do be careful, according to that Religulous movie/documentary/whatever, the first breakup can make some people turn to g od, because the only way they can console themselves is to become convinced that " g od had other plans for them". 22:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't we cover this the last time your girlfriend dumped you, Trent? Anyway, one thing I once found tiny solace in was someone telling me that at least now I knew I could "be in love" or "be loved" or however you want to put it.  But not much besides time will heal the wound.  22:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There doesn't seem to be much to do other than be there for them and listen. And having a good dinner.  Booze may very well just amplify the misery, so be careful there.  Laughs are always good, and a good distraction, so maybe a good comedy would help after or during dinner.  Maybe The Big Lebowski?  Corry 22:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What he said about listening. Also, yeah, picking "diversions" can be tricky.  Music can work well, due to the way it can resonate with the pain, but then stir other emotions.  I always found Bridge Over Troubled Water (played really loud) to be a good "transitional" song from the maudlin to the happier.  Trouble is, it pretty much has to be self-programmed, unless you know someone's taste quite well.  23:04, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, what ever happened to a week of angsty music and then you're over it? Surely, that's the time honoured solution. The Velvet Underground were good enough for me, and they ought to be good enough for this generation, dammit! -- 23:06, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You can't watch this without being at least somewhat happy. Corry 23:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I could use some happy now, but for completely different reasons... 01:32, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What about just realising that women are all mean bitches and you shouldn't expect anything else? Fall down 13:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah! Hadn't realised that you were homosexual, Fd, Welcome to the dark side. 14:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not. And you're a woman so that doesn't even make sense.
 * Oh, and nice of you to call me a homosexual. But this is RW, where libel is allowed. Fall down 14:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The "girls are icky" phase is quite normal for heterosexual boys who are about nine or ten, but when they get to be thirty or forty and they still say that, you gotta wonder if they always stop at 7-11 to pick up Playgirl magazine.  Mega   15:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * True, Mega. @ Fd: why does my being female make no sense? 15:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You have no right to judge me, as being female is a mental disability. You have no idea what makes a man gay. Fall down 01:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you? I could show you, if that's what you'd like. 01:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "My mother made me a homosexual" "If I gave her the wool do you think she'd make me one too?" 12:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Two Ronnies used that one in their limerick writers' convention sketch. Brilliant stuff. --Kels 14:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So I want people back on topic. I actually came here looking to make a thread about this exact thing. My first serious girlfriend just broke up with me, and I'm a senior in high school. Kind of eerie. Yorick 05:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC) (@tmtoulouse Dad?)
 * One could say that suffering of that sort is quite useful, but one should not expect high-schoolers to understand such lofty concepts; better just to let them suffer in silence. 16:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Quite exestential, Listner, but suffering in silence is fine until someone that age does something terminaly stupid. Rather, I'd recommend that doing whatever makes you feel better, short of aforementioned stupidity.   16:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Existentialism has nothing to do with it. I was referring to the fact that a large number of very good poets were much depressed and had serious issues when it came to love. 16:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about the existential movement, but rather in an existential sense; that whole, nothing is true but what we make it sense. And we already know pain is good for art.   16:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, I've spent a bunch of time writing shitty poetry lately, and engaged in a lot of self pity. What made it suck all the more is that it was exactly six months after we started dating, and one of my friends ended up stabbing me in the back and then lieing about it. I don't have a clue how to feel, or how I feel because there is a huge back story and I understand why she did it. Yorick 17:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Six months. The drool has not even stopped at that phase. Try having someone dump you after 20 or 30 years together, by which point a couple has almost melded into a single entity and being dumped feels like having a huge freezing pipe that has been stuck to your heart suddenly ripped away. 17:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm 17 (don't worry I'm not into cheetahs), that's 1/34 of my life so far. While not 20 or 30 years, this one hurt. We were going to the same college, and she is the first girl I have ever told that I loved them. Also I still don't want to break up. I love her still so this hurts me because she just wants to be friends. So what I'm saying is Listener you don't have a clue what I'm feeling. Yorick 03:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey Yorick, go ahead and start a new section (read the good stuff here of course) free of the endless drivel FallDown perpetuated. Sucks what you're going through, by the way. 03:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Wait wait wait...back up
Why (exactly) would it be libel to infer that one is homosexual? CЯacke ® 02:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Because if it is done with malicious intent, the act of labeling someone as homosexual can play on the social stigma that still revolves around homosexuality and could, perceivably, result in a negative outcome for the person on the receiving end of the accusation... did I win? What prize do I get? Cash is fine, or a new car. Best make it a car. 02:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, because I are slow and I only read this page oncest a day I'll give you some rebuttals.
 * I don't think the mere assertion of homosexuality was the libelous part but the perpetuation of the male homosexual stereotype of the misogynistic bitch-man from .CЯacke ® 14:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It attacks my manhood, that's why, and implies I like to stick my penis in an orifice it doesn't belong in. And she surely did say it maliciously. Fall down 18:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (extra indent to show its out of orderness)...The only orifice your penis "doesn't belong in" are those you decide it doesn't belong in; (if, say, you were an openly gay man here and someone implied that you secretly harbor a desire for "poontang" by reading what you've said in past posts (all men are pigs or some such) you would be better able to see the "joke" for what it is.)CЯacke ® 14:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Your "manhood" is fairly pathetic anyway, judging by some of the opinions you hold. And, no, the homosexual did not "maliciously" infer that you were homosexual.  18:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC, bad Hooman!)Now I don't really agree with that. I mean, what could be more manly than two men getting it on? Twice the jiggly bits, twice the male pheromones and twice the testosterone (numerous studies have found that we fags have just as must testosterone, thanks very much). Oh yeah, we have bigger penises too. Some insecure heterosexual males have decided to place it in their minds that homosexual men are less masculine to secure their feeble notion that they are the epitome of human strength and to aid their primitive desire to appear as "alphas" of their society. The link between christianity and early Hollywood helped cement this fantasy, as explained by The Celluloid Closet, my all time favorite documentary (please watch it, it's wonderful and inspirational). Anyway, I'll leave you to your dellusions of superiority, FD. Please enjoy your 1970s mentality, while I enjoy my memories of this year's Mardi Gras. 19:03, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It may well be your aesthetic preference (since you're gay), but I feel that manliness is not determined by testosterone or genital size. If I chopped off my balls I'd be no less a man, and (since you mentioned it) I really doubt your penis is larger than mine. LOL WUT 16:35, 27 April 2009
 * So, please enlighten me, what does make a man? You're such an expert on the subject. Does the desire to have intercourse with women make someone a man? Such being the case, there sure are a lot of female men getting about. I'm pretty certain you'll find that men are physically matured humans with either XY or (in rare cases) XYY chromosomes. In which case, homosexual males more than qualify as men. Now, unless you have something meaningful to say, shuffle along, little man. 20:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd have to say all the homosexual males I've seen were definitely men, including the drag queens (at least those that didn't go on to transition, which is a whole other kettle of Pisces). Some of the girliest men were still MEN in the PowerThirst sense. --Kels 21:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of the drag queens I've ever know were tops. CЯacke ® 14:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Gee, you mean they were "the best of people"? 03:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

planet.rationalwiki.com
Since there is much fiddling with the server right now, I wonder if instead of various rationalwikians using WIGO blogs for self promotion, we couldn't install the planet software and have planet rationalwiki. -- 07:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I like it. Does that mean we can each have our own blog? -- 13:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We can each have our own blog anyway, this means they all link in a jerk circle link farm, that will get each contributor greater exposure, or passed over by bots depending on how planetplanet is set up. Jeeves is it likley that Google would mistake it for reciprocal linking or is this a means of avoiding that? 13:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Why are racists so concerned about spelling
I have been editing Metapedia recently and a racist banned me for misspelling Neanderthal as Naeanderthal. Why are racists so concerned about spelling. I noticed similar phenonmenon with Conservapedians. They too get angry on seplling.--EvilFlyingMonkey 10:13, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You misspelled Volkenhass. 11:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It gives them a handy escape clause. Just look at Andy: "I can disregard your entire argument because you spelt one word incorrectly." --PsyGremlinWhut? 11:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't you mean: "I can disregard you're entire argument because you spellt one word incorectly?" -- 13:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ever try running the book of Genesis (KJV of course just like Jesus wrote) through a spellchecker?  Mega   15:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no matter how "good" your argument may be, if you can figure out how to write more correct grammatical sentences, you can be disregarded. 19:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Goat knows what inspired me to actually do it, but I present The Spellchecked Genesis! --Kels 20:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually it would be nice if atheists learned to spell atheist. It's not fucking ATHIEST, so I'm not ATHIER than you! 13:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

It's like this
Spellings is important to racists simply because AATTTTCCCCCCGGGGAAGAGATCCA...If you get them A's and T's and C's and G's conflused you'll end up darker.CЯacke ® 02:24, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Flawless rationale there! 12:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

You might not hear from me after this post
I've discovered TV Tropes. Ever so slightly addictive. It was nice knowing you... Totnesmartin 13:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I manage to do TV Tropes and RW. Probably because I've read and practically memorized the whole damn site. Once you start using trope-lingo and mixing regular wikicode with tropecode, you've gone off the deep end.
 * (actually, I like the TVT wikicodes better than the standard ones. They seem more practical. ENorman 16:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I sometimes get sucked into TV Tropes as well. Though (for now) "only" as a lurker. --Sid 16:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I bounced around reading that for a hwile. It's quite interesting where they're trying to make the excuse of why all aliens in Star Trek not only speak English, but move their lips to the right words too... 19:43, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, every character is a Time Lord, and every series takes place during the Instrumentality in NGE. ENorman 19:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought memorizing the site would stop me from spending hours and hours of lurking, but no, after a short hiatus there were many more newly created trope pages to be read (or maybe I missed them the first time). 06:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, NGE, the no.1 under "mind fuck". 14:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Stumblin' around
Found this: ARTICLE 11.

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Someone tell Andy. 15:14, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * He knows, that's why he mentioned "Adams's quirkiness" in the Founding Fathers article.   Mega   15:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Liberal vandalism to the constitution, clearly... 19:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not constitution, 'twas a treaty. 20:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong (and I almost certainly am), but wasn't the treaty drafted during Washington's term, and was signed by Adams because ratification was done slightly after Washington's term ended? 20:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In the separation of church and state article, the Treaty of Tripoli (whence the above quote was taken) is addressed. They had to do some serious tap-dancing to try and downplay its significance. 21:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * From the article linked above: the United states did not want to make it seem like it was a Crusade of Christianity against Islam, but rather that the kidnapping actions of the government regardless of their religious views was what was being objected to. That has got to be some of the stupidest rationale I have seen - ever. Hey, CP dingbats, even if that was their aim, they could have achieved it without the "Not based on christianity" part. Jesus, these guys really, really clutch at straws. Why can't they just face that America is not a christian nation? Must be the fact that freedom of religion is a librul ideal, second only to freedom of speech as the epitome of liberalism. 21:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, I just read the CP article for the first time..... I love when they say Thomas Jefferson had almost no role in the creation of the first amendment.... I don't think it's much of a strech to say the entire bill of rights is a result of Jefferson. 23:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But was he a Conservative? If not, I doubt he had much to do with writing that stuff.  Except, perhaps, as a teenager.  23:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

7 Deadly Scenarios...
...is a absolutely fantastic book for you people who are interested in military history, and military writing. I'm reading it now, and I just can't put it down. 00:42, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Who's it by? I may take a look at it, haven't been to a bookstore in too long. ENorman 03:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Andrew Krepenevich (I think that was spelled correctly).  12:07, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Airport Bar Bloody Mary
My, that was good. Thank you Mr. Bartender! DogP  02:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Come on then, let us all know which airport supplied this exquisite beverage.[[File:winoes.gif]] And on a slight tangent may I say how crap I find US airline lounges to be.[[File:spit.gif]] Even the Aєрофлот lounge in Moscow is way better than any of the Continental and Northwest ones I've visited.  14:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Sharing
Poses a very good question... 03:28, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Time Cube
So in that morning moment, just before the caffeine kicks the brain into first gear, I thought I'd have a look at Time Cube again (thanks to whoever WIGOed that, you kick up the jacksey is in the mail). It's as incomprehensible as ever, except it's been updated. By JPatt, by the looks of it. CATASTROPIC WARNING - Obama must resign to save his people from his catastrophe. SUN power will not allow any Black Skin power to rule over its Light Domain. Hell cometh to the dumb, ignorant, educated stupid "Worshippers of ONE", for Creation is of OPPOSITES. No, I don't know what it means either, and I've ignored some of the other remarks there, which are more suited to SF than anything else. --PsyGremlinWhut? 05:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome!  14:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 *  "PsyGremlin" (you can't even post in your own Queer Bastard real name), I'd like to see you criticize ONEness Deceit. You've never done that before, have you??? I reread the Beginning of Rant at Top of section and it's the high Word:substance ratio that characterizes the Word Opposite every time, so clearly you're a victim of ONEness cubic Bastard.  Like all educated stupid, you deny that God Entity pregnancy stops four-sided moral decay. Observation and cube logic dicate that Carl Sagan was Evil death Opposite spokesmen for Death word Math in the 1970s and 1980s, and an Academia adviser to Jimmy Carter and Worship leaders . You might as Well deny that -1 x -1 = +1 is stupid and evil. Make substantive contributions to this encyclopedia or your Evil account will be One Cancelled without further Notice .--aschlafly, wisest human 06:01, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Mommy, I'm scared.... ENorman 12:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That right there is a whole new level of stooooopidity. 14:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have converted to teh religion of the Time Cube! I understand it! It makes perfect sense. You Are All followers of ONEness!   DIE   -- 23:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Throwing another sumpin at y'all...
This may not be particually funny, but I would like to share a work of art with the rest of the mob. 15:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I notice they're both regular (NYC regular: one cream, one sugar) and appear to be opposite sexed coffees, this invites formal debate on whether or not a double-mocha-latte has any business with (let alone kissing or intimate relations) regular coffees. OH NOES! makin' baby beans! My God! Think.Of.The.Children! CЯacke ® 17:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Very nice. Imaginative and purdy too.  23:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

This needs the RationalWiki treatment

 * Corporate website
 * The supposed science

It is pseudoscience, quack medicine, and a pyramid scheme all rolled into one. It is a niche group, with little existing counter information. This is just screaming for RW to take on. Fifth Horseman 17:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah....How much did they take you for? CЯacke ® 17:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So this is (allegedly) DeanS' job, yes? --Kels 18:48, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's his new "money making opportunity", meaning he'll end up with a few hundred dollars' worth of the stuff in a closet, along with some bogus sales technique and recruitment manuals. 23:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Low lie
In the fields of Athenry. Super Josh "crying into a flannel"  18:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Is today "Bring your nutcases on campus" day?
I've been stopped by some vegan nutcases on my campus, Bob Jones nutcases, and a separate group of fundy loons saying that the Swine Flu is God's punishment for putting Obama in office. My friend was saying another group of people saying the swine flu was punishment for liberals in general was there earlier. I think so far the most nut-groups we've had here at once was two. What the hell? ENorman 23:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * i was getting similar guff when I was touring my old campus on Sunday.  23:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think they follow me around. I have a whole load of witty responses for them. However I find the best thing to do when you see a nut-ball bearing down on you with a phamplet is to wait until they are right on top of you, then when they are a mere 2 inches from your face, turn and shout "BOO!" or "ARGH!" or whatever you want. They go bellyup everytime. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 23:42, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I usually just take their pamphlet and run, read it later, then find a means of destruction.  23:45, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is what I love about tertiary education in Australia. You go there, attend your classes, then go home (or to the student residences). No crap. Anyone who's not a student turns up, a quick call to security and they're gone. There are also no loony students running around trying to convert people, they get a warning if they're reported, then on the second time they're out. 23:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * One messed up fundie followed me into a shop. I told him I was an atheist and he said "how unfortunate". I said back to him that he should worry about the plank in his own eye rather than the mote in mine. That shook him up. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 23:49, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That is the problem with attending an urban campus here in the States, like the University of Pittsburgh. There are all walks of life there, including loonies.  In my 4 years there I must have encountered every manic street preacher in the tri-state area.   23:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My campus gets some fun ones, too. For some reason, the Christian preachers that come to debate the (many) angry teenage atheists here always have video cameras. OneForLogic 23:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I walk past this guy every morning on the way to work. Have a gander. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 23:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The preacher groups always have video camera too, in which case you know they are editing and mangling what you say to make into some propaganda. ENorman 00:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My initial instinct was to consider your "Blanket man" a parody. My second was "why is this on Wikipedia?" OneForLogic 00:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ace, you hit a fundie in the eye with a plank? What a waste of a perfectly good plank...  00:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ben's page does read a bit like a parody, but I've seen other vagrants of similar qualities around my neck of the woods.  00:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Blanket Man is for real. And yeah, I carry planks everywhere I go. For hitting fundies and waiting for the command to start building my Ark. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 00:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I see plenty of bums around here, too, just no famous ones. Also, I figure you're pretty much right about the cameras, Norman. I imagine it works well for them, really, since the young, angry atheists they tend to incite aren't any good at debate at all. They usually go with the "You're stupid and wrong. Therefore, I win!" argument and seem surprised when it doesn't work. OneForLogic 00:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * OFL You're exactly right. I remember watching videos from when I was still forced volunteering to go religious services.  They always had these "on the street" type shots with really young people screaming and ranting like morons.  So many of the other kids bought that shit hook line and sinker.  After one film, when we broke for "discussion" I brought up the idea that it was edited on a strong slant and why aren't there ever any reasonable non-religious people on these videos.  The adult in charge of discussion answered, completely seriously, that non-religious people are not reasonable by definition... ah, do I ever miss those days  00:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a man in the centre of Bristol who has some hopelessly useless sound system on which he blasts out religious scar music and then tries to evangelise over the top. It's almost as if he knows what he's saying is useless incomprehensible nonsense and he's self-censoring himself with the warblings of God-loving skin-heads. Matt oblong 00:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A wee while ago a wrote a piece about being confronted by Jesus Freaks. See my User page if you wanna read it. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 00:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

(undent)On another note, have you licked an autistic kid today?ENorman 01:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In the town where I live there was this black preacher who always wore a Tupac backpack, who for years walked around the bottom of the high street saying repeatedly "Jesus loves you." He's disappeared recently though. Also my mate saw the WP page of Blanket Man Ace linked to and referred to him as "Stone Age Guy." Super Josh "crying into a flannel"  09:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Epic
Epic revert war at RWW. It's been going on for over two hours, averaging a revert every 3 minutes 9 seconds. One of them is gonna have to sleep sooner or later. 03:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What the fuck for? Ace McWickedbitch and moan 03:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Something to do with Fall Down's talk page. Or do you mean what do they have to sleep for? To stave of exhaustion, I guess, that can kill ya. 03:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhh so thats people lie down and close their eyes for 8 hours. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 03:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Why does nobody ever WIGO RWW these things for me? 03:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe, the funny part is, both edits should be there, but it's a PITA to do that. Hopefully this will still be running full speed tomorrow! 03:38, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Should we start taking bets on who will last longest? I think it's hilarious that someone is trolling FD, he's not doing too good a job of keeping his temper under control either. 03:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the same troll, obviously. She should have been blocked a while ago. Actually, I don't know why anonymous editing is allowed there, it does no good. Fall down
 * It does some good, we're all enjoying watching you struggle fruitlessly. 03:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that's just gay. I don't show malice toward anyone, for God's sake. Fall down
 * Of course not dear, you have no desire to cause any distress to anyone with your anti-female and homophobic crap. You're just a poor, misunderstood soul who needs a friend, I'm sure. 04:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * FD, you lie. You are malice embodied.  04:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * My primary goal is to get out the truth. If that causes distress to anyone, it's his problem. Fall down
 * Now now, FD is telling the truth, as far as it goes. He bears no malice towards anyone.  It's just women, minorities and gays don't count as people. --Kels 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hang on, now I'm confused. Which one are you, FD, the lame-ass troll? I know you're a lame-ass troll, but are you the lame-ass troll? 04:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Follow the reverts and you can see. Fall down
 * FD is the lame one. 04:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah your not gonna get much sympathy here FD. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 04:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm only defending myself. Fall down
 * You throw  fight  kiss  smell  like a woman. But you curl just like a little girl.  04:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Javascap is: Eating some popcorn while drinking some Schlafly Inagurale.

4 Hour Mark - 93 edits (-1 non-revert edit), that's 1 revert every 2 minutes 36 seconds. Who will be left standing? The lame-ass troll, or the other lame-ass troll? 05:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * WTF??? Fall down
 * Yes, yes. I did everything I could without block powers. I think I managed to revert everything. 06:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 5 hours! - currently at 1 edit every 2 minutes and 12 seconds. 06:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Who cares? I'm tired of stupid edit wars and stupid block wars. Immaturity, anyone? Sterilewalkie-talkie 12:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It'd be better if it was funnier stuff being inserted . 14:21, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Then again, it's the most activity RWW has had in months so it must be a sort of good thing. 14:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Currently reading...
Snow Crash and loving it. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Snow Crash was excellent, though I tried reading some on his newer stuff and found it too drawn-out for me. Imagine Snow Crash with way less action and way more lingustics.   13:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, Snow Crash was okay. Way too into itself, a Mary Sue as a main character, ham-handed when it tries to be cute, and with poor visualization.  It did have some interesting concepts.  Far better is The Diamond Age, one of Stephenson's later books.  And far better than Stephenson's work at all is the quintessential cyberpunk of William Gibson, with Neuromancer setting the gold standard for the genre.--Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum 06:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Neuromancer was an excellent read, but you deride Snow Crash for lack of visualization, then praise Neuromancer? Neuromancer was terrible when it came to visualization.  And I didn't care for Diamond Age, it was too Count Zero for me.   13:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Did people catch the cameos of Hiro and YT in Diamond Age? --Shagie 19:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Creationist talking point for the week???
Maybe an asteroid didn't kill the dinos. Probably an atheistic science conspiracy!!?!ll! Sterilewalkie-talkie 12:37, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually that's a good point to raise when PJR starts continues to carry on about peer pressure ruling. They'd never have published if he was right. 12:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, but they're only allowed to go so far. They can question how these things happened, within limits, but if they start to question the age of the earth, or if there were mass extinctions, or accept the OBVIOUS EVIDENCE OF THE GREAT FLOOD, I MEAN IT'S STARING YOU IN THE FACE, then a team of PhD's will come around to apply wedgies and stick your head in the toilet until you recant.  It's just how science is done. --Kels 13:13, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah... um.... er...
14:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I had a dream like that once... 14:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why you should never eat cheese before bedtime. --PsyGremlinWhut? 16:49, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Reverse placebo?
Does anyone know if a "reverse placebo effect" is possible? I'm taking some paracetamol but unsure if it's even working. Therefore, if I think it won't work, will it not work? Maybe I just need to switch to swigging codeine by the handful instead. 16:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it could work; placebos have side effects, after all. And I thought you couldn't get anymore codeine.   16:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I seem to remember a someone writing to the New Scientist on this topic; I believe it's called the nocebo effect. 17:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still the same effect; the mind controlling the sensation of pain. People can be made to believe they are in pain even if they are not receiving any external stimuli. 21:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, at least it wasn't swine flu causing it :p As if that's scaring me, I reckon we still have a bigger chance of dying on the roads in the next few weeks! 15:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Talk to you doctor? I wouldn't trust me on RW.  I think Pink is right--I think that the brain can produce neurotransmitters (or perhaps dispose of them) in part because of human belief, although there ought to be some effect.  That is, I would expect there to be some effect perhaps mediated by your expectation.  And, of course, it depends how many of the right type of receptors you actually have.  But WTF do I know?  Sterilewalkie-talkie 16:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

CP will be all on top of this
Any one read the New York Times and saw the article on A18? I'd just like to ask: WHAT THE HELL WHERE THEY THINKING!?! -- 20:57, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A18? link please. Totnesmartin 21:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On the website, the content on pp A18 is

NYC: An Anonymous Senator of Power and Influence By CLYDE HABERMAN

Two Officers Indicted in Sex Case By AL BAKER

'''Jet Flyover Frightens New Yorkers By A. G. SULZBERGER and MATTHEW L. WALD'''

There you go. 21:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah. I thought "article on A18" meant "article about A18"... Totnesmartin 21:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I know you have been told this before CUR whatever your name is now but if your gonna comment on something offsite like this then please either be more specific or add a link. Just a heads up because its annoying. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 21:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The NYT is a bad newspaper anyways. Proof:


 * 1) Communist propaganda
 * 2) No comics
 * 3) Too much about New York sports

Of course, the Tribune is starting to get that way, too... 21:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Anybody play Dwarf fortress?
I was thinking of playing it. Is it any good? ENorman 21:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ever played Rogue?  21:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No.
 * Since link was asked for, game here, wiki here. ENorman 21:57, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

FOOL. Play Rogue. 22:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * link?  ENorman 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh. I'd better explain first.  Rogue was one of the original computer games ever created.  It was the first "dungeon crawler" ever created- go into the Dungeons of Doom, kill monsters, get gold, retrieve the magic amulet an get the fuck out.  It was created in the 80's, and is still popular today.  It is also widely regarded as the hardest game ever invented.  Some people have been playing it for three decades and have still never beaten it.  It is incredibly frustrating, yet immensely fun at the same time.  In regards to downloading, a google search for "Rogue download"  will yield literally thousands of sites.  It really is worth your time.   22:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I know what it is. I'll look for it after I go grab some food. ENorman 22:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Too late, the elf shot that food. -- 05:02, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * See, if you had two rings of Slow Digestion, food would not be neccesary.  23:18, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

History lesson

 * Rogue
 * Hack
 * Nethack
 * Slash'em
 * Crawl
 * Moria
 * Angband
 * Zangband (notable in that many of the bajillion varients are descendants of this one)
 * TOME
 * Bajillion varients http://www.thangorodrim.net/variants.html
 * Boss (VMS / mac cyberpunk influenced game)
 * Diablo (not text based, but strongly strongly influenced)
 * Larn
 * Omega
 * ADOM

It just depends where you want to play in that chart. Personally, I like Nethack more than its descendants, along with the Angband tree. Dwarf fortress is a great game (love the fortress mode game). I've been playing it since it was a dig to the right game. All of these games, being descended from Rogue are roguelike games. --Shagie 22:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Have you beaten it? (rogue, of course)  22:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Once, long ago. Oh, another roguelike - wp:The Dungeon Revealed for the mac.  I beat that once. --198.95.226.224 00:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I almost had it -reached L25, then DEATH. I've beaten Rogue Touch-(iphone), but that's just a toned-down version of realrogue.   00:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean you can't just run back from the spirit healer to your body and try again? Meh. Bondurant 10:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)