RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive184

T5 Slimming tablets
I've just been recommended T5 Slimming tablets. OK, so I'm a fat git but, sure these aren't the panacea everyone says they are. Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ooops, this looks like I'm spamming them - seriously, I'm not. More than that, I wouldn't recomend any "slimming aids" to anyone. The only pounds you're likely to lose are sterling, not weight. Innocent Bystander (talk) 17:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. Scarlet A.pngbomination silverbrain.png 11:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Somewhere in the world, a very tiny violin is playing
Anonymous targets Westboro. It really could not happen to a nicer bunch of humans. I use the term humans in its strictly biological sense. JzG (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * To commemorate the occasion I just played Auntie Mary Had a Canary (a.k.a. Cock O'the North) a few times through. A jaunty little march, sits easily in the left hand in D major on a violin. Didn't have a tiny one handy, hope a 4/4 full size was OK. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 19:15, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Planned downtime Saturday
The RW site will be going down for maintenance purposes on Saturday afternoon. More details as we get closer. Tmtoulouse (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * EST, I assume? or GMT? Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 20:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It won't be Mayan Standard Time, I'm fairly sure. Sophie  Wilder  22:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Is this where Trent does a bunk with the last fund-raiser? Генгис silverbrain.png 23:02, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have it planned enough to get something as specific as a time zone, will be done before Alaska sees Sunday. Tmtoulouse (talk) 03:04, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Everything will be down after the apocalypse, silly. sterilesporadic heavy hitter 03:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * At least make it tomorrow. Duh. Scarlet A.pngbomination silverbrain.png 10:37, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I could be convinced. Tmtoulouse (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just change the Squid error message appropriately - David Gerard (talk) 18:00, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Obligatory Scarlet A.pngpostate silverbrain.png 18:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

End of the world two days away...
...Does anybody have any plans? "Told you so" parties on the 22nd? Anybody have any idea what we're going to do to our article after Alaska crosses the International Date Line? Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 02:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm planning on sleeping in and watching porn. Nihilist 02:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * this & calling a place  about fixing  my laptops keyboard-- Mikal  Harass  Follow 03:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well... I'll wake up, look my girlfriend in the eyes, tell her the apocalypse must have happened because I woke up next to an angel. Cliché but hey, so are failed apocalypses. 62.159.14.62 (talk) 10:16, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I plan to do what I saw suggested on Facebook: on the 22nd, I will wake up, run outside, and cheer, "The Doctor did it! The Doctor saved us all!" MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 14:39, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

It's not just me is it?
American pistachios (pitooee) vs Turkish (read:Iranian) variety. Sure the home grown are full of California goodness, larger and generally easier to open, but they don't have the same depth of flavor nor the wonderful subtleties that emerge whilst being chewed. Some years ago I was waiting for a prescription to be filled and I bought a small bag of Zenobia "Turkish" pistachios. The mottled kernels looked almost emaciated in comparison to the pure khaki of their west coast brethren. Using a tried and true method for scoring Pistacia, (wedging front incisor in betwixt shell halves and spinning it open), my mouth encountered the salty goodness of mine youth, I cleaned out what stock they had in the drug store, hell, I even paid for the damned things. As I said this was some, four? five? years ago. This seems to be a case of Betamax vs VHS, where the inferior but wildly available and cheap product is all one can find in the marketplace. (Oh sure, I can get all I want on the intertubes, but where's the sport in that? Part of the joy is hunting down the wilely seed and wresting its green goodness from within.) Also, what is the deal with chicory? C ® ackeЯ
 * You need to move to yurp, the tasty purple and green ones are the only ones we get. And they're my favourite nut too. Sophie  Wilder  16:21, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But, but, but yurp is filled with furnniers! C ® ackeЯ

Going back to that Santa discussion...
This is an interesting one. Balaam (talk) 17:55, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that story adds much to the debate about whether or not children should be told there is a Santa Claus. But it goes to show that there's more to playing Santa Claus than just putting on a beard and the costume and that not everybody is up to the task. The ballonn artist probably thought the children would know he was only joking, either that or he was just a total dickhead. I also had to go to the main page of The Telegraph to see if the holly was on the masthead was there too (it was).--Spud (talk) 04:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Must be a slow news day.
They named the little flurry that just flittered over us. --P3A58NT86 21:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "You have reached this page because you have exceeded the maximum number of story views available to visitors who are not NewsTribune subscribers." But I don't read the News Tribune.  I haven't even heard of the News Tribune.   21:49, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's because you're Jewish. They don't want your kind there. [[image:non.gif]]  23:49, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That really sucks. Anyway, they named the thing "Draco". The derp meter is high.--P3A58NT86 00:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

IT'S CHRIIIIIIIIISTMAAAAAAAAAAASSSSS!
Sorry, blame it on having sat next to Dave Hill on a flight back from Düsseldorf once. T'missus has just given me an early pressie since tomorrow's do at her firm is fairly formal: a rather lovely blue bow tie with a silver snowflake motif. A proper one of course only a bounder wears a ready-made bow tie. I will take my self-patterned black Paisley tie just in case blue is seen as a bit infra-dig, but I am really rather taken with it. JzG (talk) 23:41, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

John Best Junior
I've finished work on this article in my user space, and I would like it reviewed. Here it is. BankBox (talk) 09:53, 18 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Highly imperfect but eminently mainspace-worthy - David Gerard (talk) 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice job getting citations though! I'd say move it into mainspace so we can tweak it a little bit and bring it up to speed.  Sam   Tally-ho!  16:38, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have taken the liberty of moving it and adding a couple of headings. I know that really the principle author should have done so, but it would benefit from some group participation methinks.  Complaints to my talkpage.  --DamoHi 19:07, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Where did you move it to, Damo? I can hardly complain or give kudos when I can't see what you've done.
 * Thanks for the compliment on the cites, Sam
 * David, how is it imperfect? BankBox (talk) 22:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Type "John Best" in the search box.  Sam   Tally-ho!  23:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * John Best. And don't worry that Gerard thinks it is imperfect.  For one thing, all wiki articles are imperfect, that is the nature of a wiki.  And secondly don't pay any attention to what Gerard thinks - nobody else does.  --DamoHi 23:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, many people do, which is why he was nominated for both Moderator and the Board of Trustees.  23:17, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So was I; so there goes that theory. Генгис silverbrain.png 00:36, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Nice work guys! I'm a bit antsy about editing the main article because I think he may be able to work out that this is me using this account, so I have a couple of suggestions. First - he is commonly known as "Foresam" on Blogger so I guess that ID could be added. I can't cite it, but the Fore is for his fixation with golf, and Sam is naturally his son. Also, would it be SOP if we were to add some pictures? I have a few of Best himself and I also have some nasty side swipes which I haven't used anywhere else that I created from a few avatar generator sites (for instance, the one I use on Facebook is Wile E Coyote falling as usual holding a sign which reads "I listened to John Best"). On a related note - his latest entry on Hating Autism is going to get him into even more defamation trouble than he's already in!! BankBox (talk) 08:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh and I forgot - how about some external links to his blogs? I can also get the link to his Facebook page and there's also his You Tube account although that was empty last I checked. BankBox (talk) 08:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ideally, limit external links to within references, or under the "External links" section. I think Facebook links are a touch personal, unless it's the definitive way they disseminate their crank ideas.  If it's just linking for the sake of linking, don't bother with it.  And if their YouTube channel is empty, don't bother linking to that, either.   08:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at the article there is plenty of references to his blog (too many perhaps) so I wouldn't put any more in. I agree with Stabby that a facebook link is just a bit creepy - a guy can have some bad ideas but it doesn't mean he deserves to have his facebook page advertised on unfriendly websites.  Lastly though, it would be better to have this conversation at the articles talkpage so that if any of these issues come up in the future there is a record of them.  I will post a copy of this discussion on the relevant talk page, but I'll leave it here also.  DamoHi 09:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I should be ashamed of myself for posting this
You may have heard that Bullwinkle the Moose was found dead. And a special prosecutor was appointed to investigate the mysterious circumstances of the moose's death.

Most people are aware of the fact that the moose was found crushed to death by a 16-ton anvil dropped from a great height. And of course, everybody was certain that the moose's live-in companion (and isn't that an interesting euphemism?) a certain hyperactive flying squirrel, was the most likely suspect.

But further investigation revealed a number of things. First, JPL did a computer simulation and determined that a flying squirrel could not achieve airspeed while carrying a 16-ton anvil, so that cleared Rocket J. Squirrel.

But the coroner reported that the _expression on the moose's face showed absolutely no fear, so obviously the anvil hit him unexpectedly, or he was completely trusting of the circumstances -- which could implicate Rocky after all. The expression on the moose's face was the biggest smile ever seen on a Toon.

Clutched in the moose's baseball mitt -- which he always wore when he caught Rocky -- was a tiny statue of Krishna. The religious significance of this is not immediately clear; neither is the eyewitness report of a rabbi on a pogo stick rapidly leaving the scene.

So...if we summarize the clues in Bullwinkle's death, what we have is: wee Vishnu, a merry crushed moose, and a hoppy Jew near. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 18:07, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I really think that you ought to get your coat! Scream!! (talk) 20:39, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Isaac Asimov was a published (and even famous) author and he still sometimes wrote this kind of stuff. Death of a Foy is the most painful example because there's literally nothing going on there beyond the excrutiatingly bad punchline. Apparently they're called "Feghoots", but the only thing I can think of to do with that knowledge is avoid anything described as a Feghoot, even if it's by an author I otherwise like. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 21:23, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I originally heard that one as a Feghoot, though not by the Good Doctor. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 19:28, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was written by John Varley Nowhere Man (talk) 13:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, but his one about a man called Stein time-travelling seven years into the future to take advantage of the statute of limitations was good: "a niche in time saves Stein." Sophie  Wilder  22:23, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose they're punchlines. I'll get my coat. Scream!! (talk) 20:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Ann Coulter at WND
Ann Coulter has vomited up her latest column at World Nut Daily.

Unsurprisingly, It's on the Connecticut school shooting. And equally unsurprisingly, she calls for "moar guns" as the solution.

That's not my point. My point is a section she uses to cite examples of cases where gunmen were foiled by armed private citizens.

Look at when she chooses to name the gunmen.


 * Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia
 * Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez
 * Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant
 * Santee, Calif., 2001: Student
 * Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: student
 * Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student

Now, I've done the research.


 * At Appalachian School of Law, the shooter was Peter Odighizuwa, a Nigerian.
 * In Santee, CA, the shooter was Charles Andrew Williams.
 * In Mississippi, the shooter was Luke Woodham.
 * In Pennsylvania, the shooter was Andrew Jerome Wurst.

Does anyone think her choices for when to name the gunmen was coincidental? MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:42, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The details Coulter gives seem to be either misleading or outright lies. She chooses not to mention key details like the shooter being out of ammunition before anyone was able to subdue them, or in some cases just changes the order of events to make the gun the important part. And yes, she's a racist. Film at 11. -- 19:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * How dare you besmirch the finest liberal parodist this side of Stephen Colbert! C ® ackeЯ 20:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think she's a parodist. I do think her main tactic now is to see how offensive she can be. She's like a three year old whose learned her first dirty word, except there's no one around to wash her mouth out with soap. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:19, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Skip to 2 minutes in for a good smack. Scarlet A.pngnarchist silverbrain.png 12:24, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Update on 2012
As the big day hits the countries next to the IDL, nothing yet, post updates down here if anything happens... Why do I expect there to be no updates? Man of Perspective 12:44, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Presumably if anything goes down it will happen on Mayan time, so we need to wait until it's at least the 21st in South America. DickTurpis (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, it's 0:03am in my timezone now. I played the 1812 Overture finale section through surround sound at the perfect time. Man of Perspective 13:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * All the Mayans I've ever met came from Guatemala, which is on Central Time, same as Winnipeg, Minneapolis, and Dallas. Being north of Panama, I suppose it counts as North America in the grand scheme, where we don't consider Central America a continent. I may spend the day seeking out people being Wrong On The Internet and waving my pedantry in their general direction. Sra. Cogswell will be visiting a bereaved relative that day. Hugs to all, while we still live, Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 15:03, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've just had a look at Google Australia. I'm disappointed to see that although the Little Red Riding Hood doodle is gone, it's just been replaced by a normal Google logo. No special doodle for the apocalypse? How could they miss that opportunity?--Spud (talk) 15:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably because, as much as we love to joke about it because we know it's bullshit, it would be mahoosively irresponsible of Google to even pretend there's a shred of credibility in it. Scarlet A.pnggnostic silverbrain.png 15:16, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * They should post a "we survived" graphic. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 15:23, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I spoke too soon about the Google doodle. There's nothing special for Google Australia but there's "end of the Mayan calendar" themed one for some other versions, including Google UK. Oddly enough, the Chinese version of Google Hong Kong has the Mayan theme but the English version doesn't.--Spud (talk) 04:16, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

It's now just gone midnight in Taiwan and, so far, everything is an normal. I must listen to the finale of the 1812 overture before I go to bed.--Spud (talk) 16:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

If EST was good enough for Jesus it was good enough for the Mayans. Tmtoulouse (talk) 16:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't Mayans use CET. I wouldn't expect your still beating heart to be ripped from your chest until at least 0700 UTC. -- 21:12, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * World's still here? Oh pits.  Now what am I supposed to do with all the Twinkies and Moon Pies I stockpiled? Secret Squirrel (talk) 14:05, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's now just gone midnight, making it December 22 in Taiwan. Am I now living in a post-apocalyptic world?--Spud (talk) 16:04, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat useful article on guns from a conservative source
I thought I'd post this article because I think it does a good job of clearing up some assumptions and misconceptions about terms used in the gun control debate. Often I hear people throwing around words like "semi-automatic" and "assault weapon" and I strongly suspect they often don't have a clear idea of what they mean. I think the guy does exaggerate when he says that talking about "semi-automatic guns" is like talking about "gasoline cars", as there are still a large number of bolt action rifles and revolvers, but if the majority of guns aren't semi-automatic, they're at least a very large minority (I couldn't find exact figures), and it does not exclusively refer to military style weapons (also a vague term). Anyway, there you go. DickTurpis (talk) 15:39, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Semi-auto is pretty much your non-revolver pistols, somebody using a break action pistol or a pepperbox is pretty rare. Most hunting rifles are bolt/lever action, except .22 rifles. Then again there are a lot of Garands and M1 Carbines used as hunting weapons, those are WW2/Korea era semi-automatic weapons. There are also semi-automatic hunting rifles, but I don't see them as often. Humorless fascist sociopath 15:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's just getting pissed at incorrect terminology. Now, pass me a clip... Scarlet A.pngpathetic silverbrain.png 16:00, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't make me come over there... Humorless fascist sociopath 16:02, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And what? You'll pop a cartridge in my ass? Scarlet A.pngnarchist silverbrain.png 16:07, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ironically, an article complaining about the incorrect use of terms itself uses incorrect terms. Or at least seems to not understand the history of certain weapon families. It says "The M-16 is a machine gun, that throughout most of its history – and certainly in popular understanding". This is not true. The M16 and M16A1 (both varities used in Vietnam and not since by the US military) had a single round and a fully automatic setting. It was replaced by the M16A2, which had the three round burst option and has been the standard issue weapon in the US military since the 1980s. The M16A3 and M16A4 also had single round and a 3 round burst option, but were not fully automatic. The M16 family of weapons is currently being replaced by the M4 family, which is M4 and M4A1, and only the M4A1 has a fully automatic setting. It's worth remembering though that it having a fully automatic setting does not make it a machine gun. Atleast not in the since of the term the US military uses. And I would argue that "semi-automatic" is a useful descriptor, since there is also revolver, bolt action, pump action, lever action, etc. --Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 16:19, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the specifics of the M16 and related weapons is getting pretty nitpicky and off topic. The bigger issue is that many people, when they hear "semi-automatic" concentrate on the "automatic" and not the "semi", and what springs to mind is something along the lines of an M16 or an AR 15, not a Winchester Model 1903, which is semi-automatic and and of a similar caliber. As for the other kinds of guns, it seems you don't see so many lever actions these days, and pump action seems to be common for shotguns, but little else (I think, I admit I'm far from an expert). Your standard rifle these days is either going to be bolt action or semi-automatic, and your pistol is either going to be a revolver or semi-automatic. I also wouldn't call his argument a semantic one. No one cares if M16s manufactured today are fully automatic or 3 shot burst because that's not part of the national gun debate, whereas there are a lot of people advocating an assault weapons ban who have no idea what the definition of an assault weapon is, which is understandable, as the definition is crazy. But if you're going to call for banning something, you really should know what it is you want to ban. DickTurpis (talk) 22:33, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * For the definition of assault weapon, "crazy" is a good word. So is ignorant and idiotic. What's this? My gun is banned because it has a pistol grip and a bayonet mount? Throw on some good woo about suppressors and flash suppressors and yeah... Ok. California on the other hand has some laws that bear at least a passing resemblance to reality: limiting the magazine capacity and the ability to quickly replace magazines. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 22:47, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * @Dick: From some unrelated research I've done, there are some pump action and lever action rifles still being made(not many, but they exist), and lever action on shotguns is almost as popular as pump action on shotguns. If I had to guess I'd say probably 35% of shotguns are pump action, and 30% are some variation on lever action.
 * @Liberal: I'm not sure if California's firearm laws are really worth praising. I'll agree with you that magazine capacity and speed of reloading a magazine is more important than type of grip or whether or not the rifle has a bayonet mount (which would infuriate firearm collectors, who mostly go for vintage military gear that pretty much exclusively have bayonet mounts, or even permanently fixed bayonets like the Mousin Nagant). But California has a habit of banning weapons that meet their standards, for seemingly no reason other then 'it looks dangerous'.
 * But I'm going to go back what I said angrily last week: the issue is not legal firearm owners. The people who go through the bother of a background check and purchase from a firearm dealer (which is the majority of non-collectors) almost excursively do no commit murder with their firearms. The overwhelming majority of people who commit murder with a firearm are people who have the weapon illegally (ie, it was stolen by them or someone else) or who purchased it from a private owner. If we (as a society) want to do something to curb firearm related violence, we need to all sit down as a society and have an adult conversation on what we would have to do to accomplish this by comparing what has and has not worked (objectively) in different regions in the US and internationally. I'd guess it would probably include things like making it so only dealers can legally sell firearms, require more scrutiny on who gets a firearm dealer's license and (for lack of a better term coming immediately to mind) have a war on illegal firearms. --Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 23:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to imply that bolt action and semi-auto were the only rifles, just that they are the vast majority. Yeah, you can get lever actions, and even muzzle loaders, but they're not exactly common. I made a cursory effort to find out what percentage of rifles in the US were semi-automatic, but it wasn't really easy to do, so I gave up. I'd be curious to know, though. I have to admit I'm a but surprised to find that a good number of shotguns are lever action; I can't recall ever having seen one. Then again, that's basically irrelevant to the gun control issue, as there's little fundamental different between lever or pump action, and shotguns are the type of gun that seems to be the least controversial anyway. Much of my gun knowledge comes from a friend of mine who likes guns a lot, but is far from a gun nut. Once or twice a year we generally go to the range and do some target shooting. My favorite guns of his are his old military ones, especially the M-1 Garand. The carbine and Lee Enfield are up there too, as is an old Mauser. The latter two are bolt action, and would likely escape even the most strict gun legislation we'd ever see. He has a .22 that's semi-automatic, but compared to the others it feels like you're shooting a BB gun, though that's the one that would be banned if they instituted a ban on semi-automatics. I consider myself a gun control moderate. I'm all for stricter regulations and outright bans on some guns, but I'd hate to see the Garand banned. If his FNFAL had to go, though, well, I'd consider that collateral damage. DickTurpis (talk) 01:19, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Check Remmington, Winchester, Browning, and Ruger and see what they sell. Humorless fascist sociopath 01:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Whatever needed to be done to stop this, I think we need to agree on something. We can't let people angry and upset write laws. Look at California's Three Strikes Law. That was basically written by angry fathers of murdered daughters, and its nearly destroyed the legal system there. --Revolverman (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably a major saving grace of the federal laws is the difficulty in getting anything passed. It tends to prevent that kind of thing from happening.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 01:07, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, this isn't true. The Patriot Act, REAL ID, Homeland Security Act after 9/11, the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act after OKC, all passed in a rush.  Secret Squirrel (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Excellent
I fired up RW and laughed out loud. Very good. JzG (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll have to disagree. It's kinda cute, yeah, and it did make me roll my eyes, but's not really worth the annoyance, or the additional hassle to get to the WIGOs. --79.218.20.188 (talk) 21:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Laughed almost as much as when I saw this:
 * “First of all, I do know when the end of the world will happen,” Putin replied, offering a scientific explanation. “In 4.5 billion years as far as I understand the functioning and cycle of our sun.”
 * He explained his calculation by saying that, given the age of the sun, it has approximately that long before it dies as a white dwarf star.
 * Asked if he was afraid of the end of the world, Putin replied, “What’s to be afraid of? It’s unavoidable.” Q0 (talk) 22:30, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * He has a hand (or even a Dead Hand) on one of the big red buttons. So he'll be more wised up to the end of the world than most. Scarlet A.pngbomination silverbrain.png 00:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

If you're are talking about the Main Page, I'm not a fan of it. If it's only there for a few hours, OK. But otherwise a big banner saying that we're "closed" when we're actually not isn't the greatest move. Couldn't it say something else? 01:16, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just leave it that way - the fact that 2012 apocalypse is linked in the first case makes it painfully obvious that we're kidding. Osaka Sun (talk) 04:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really. If I was visiting an unfamiliar website & saw a "closed" message on the front page, I would probably assume that the website wasn't operating, even if a jokey reason was given.  12:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Who appears on this site out of nowhere on the main page and not through an article via search/referral? Scarlet A.pngbomination silverbrain.png 12:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Presumably quite a lot of users, since its our most viewed page and most regular users wouldn't have much cause to look at it regularly. 18:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Any opinions/objections?
My first template --Seth Peck (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems like it could be useful, but I'm not sure how many people will even know it exists. For whatever its worth, I'm building a small wiki and I'm including a fairly large article on how to edit in wiki/HTML and I'm including how to do a lot of the little shortcuts like that. Maybe RW could make an article on the same line, and include some those templates. Otherwise it seems like your work will all be for naught.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 19:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Move it to Template namespace & use it on some pages. (start here?) that'll establish it. You might also like to do the same for the other house & for UK & Canadian MPs? Scream!! (talk) 20:42, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a good template. Like Scream said, move it to templatespace and start using it.  Others will start using it as they see it here and there.   21:51, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * We have a template namespace?--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been moved. --Seth Peck (talk) 22:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The state should be in initials, IMO. Osaka Sun (talk) 01:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we have redirects for all the abbreviation links? Peter Subsisting on honey 01:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems tedious, but I could do it. --Seth Peck (talk) 06:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If you don't, I'm sure somebody else will. Peter Subsisting on honey 07:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, so that's done...apologies for filling up RC for five minutes. All fifty states are there; DC is already DC, so that's fine...if Puerto Rico becomes #51, we'll have to redirect PR to there (instead of Public relations).  Idaho required several changes, as ID had been used to describe intelligent design.  I made necessary changes in relevant articles, and created IDiot as a redirect since it was used quite a bit. --Seth Peck (talk) 17:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So, we are going to lose redirects like ID and PR to this? Any reason for not using a switch function?--ZooGuard (talk) 17:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "PR" had a whole two articles using the redirect, so I changed them. "ID" had like eight (not including old userspace and archived forums), and I've edited them, in addition to adding a blurb to the top of Idaho.  I didn't know what a switch function was.  --Seth Peck (talk) 17:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Looking for the crow buffets
I'm looking for as many sites propagating this year's End of the World as possible, so we can enjoy all the embarrassment together. Please post them here. This could be beautiful. 00:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been looking, and they are surprisingly hard to find. I think this particular apocalypse burnt out too early. Better luck next time. Peter Subsisting on honey 07:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It is now the final day of Earth. No saurians sighted yet, no planet in the sky, no asteroids, the LHC has not yet created strangelets or black holes so it seems its not happening at least today. http://www.dailymail.com/Opinion/HoppyKercheval/201212200151 Hamster (talk) 18:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

== That thing where you bid on a sweet guitar on EBay last week and were pretty sure that there was no way that your lowballing bid would stand up and now it's an hour until the auction ends and you're still winning. ==

You know what I'm talking about. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 01:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It ain't over till it's over. Smart bidders wait till the last ten seconds.  But you might be lucky.  I've walked away with quite a few unexpected bargains on eBay.  02:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Who has two thumbs and a fancy new/old archtop guitar to play Django Reinhardt tunes on? This guy. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 04:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just two thumbs? Trying to outdo Reinhardt? Scarlet A.pngsshole silverbrain.png 12:14, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congrats on the Axe, TOP. 12:21, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Didn't know you played Django.  [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font color="Blue">Godot  She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  20:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Christmas, Easter, Valantines Day - arrgghhhhh !
I know I am old, and not as willing to deal with new things, but is it completely inreasonable to expect one holiday at a time ? I went to my local walmart store to buy mom a box of chocolates and mayebe a cake pan and found in the candy aisle big bags pf candy, chcolate eggs, and candy hearts. I suffered through christmas and thanksgiving stuff before halloween but choclate eggs for christmas ? Some obscure religious practice maybe ? Hamster (talk) 00:23, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Why don't you buy cards in bulk. Maybe get 50 years worth of valentines day cards just to have them in stock, plus a few hundred assorted birthday cards (mixed "funny" and kitten ones, because those are the only two varieties worth buying.) Hell, you can probably get a personal shopper to buy gifts as well. Never again worry about holidays. -- 01:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Kinder has been pushing Christmasy chocolate eggs for as long as I can remember. Apparently American companies have followed suit. Vulpius (talk) 01:53, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

2012 apocalypse updating
Since it's nearly wrapped up in the Western hemisphere, we need a few people to start past-tensing the crap out of the article/add aftermath info. Osaka Sun (talk) 01:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Liberals and atheists may be smarter
Scientists don't agree if it's significant but we're certainly not more dumb than Conservapedia. Do you need a scientific test to see that? Proxima Centauri (talk) 11:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Liberals, Atheists Are More Highly Evolved? Smarter people more inclined to nontraditional values, study suggests.
 * If we were more dumb than CP, you'd have to make sure we got plenty of sunlight and water us twice a day. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 11:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Scream!! (talk) 11:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In fairness, that's a joke I stole from the late, lamented Molly Ivins, describing a former Texas Speaker of the House. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 12:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I would be very wary of anything associated with Satoshi Kanazawa. He's more than a tad controversial. Innocent Bystander (talk) 12:00, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This is already covered in our article: Satoshi Kanazawa . 12:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * More gullible, certainly, as they all seem to swallow these stories when they come out. I did see one group taken in by a faked study that suggested that Fox News viewers scored 20 IQ points lower on average than the rest of the population - something that isn't statistically possible given the number of people who watch Fox News and how the average and S.D. of the IQ test is set. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>pathetic silverbrain.png 12:28, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the most effective tactics of woo and pseudoscience is to compliment you; people generally are less critical of ideas if they come with the idea that they are smarter or better than other people.The age-old saying remains true: beware of Greeks bearing gifts. You don't know what's lurking inside, not of the Trojan horse, nor of that study: where that 'data' came from, who compiled it, etc.<font face="MS Sans Serif" size="3">±[[File:knightoftldrsig.png]]KnightOfTL;DR going galt: the literal crazy train 12:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My week in Texas reinforced what I've always believed. It's got nothing to do with intelligence, but exposure to ideas (ie., education - but also travel, friends with different views, etc).  Most conservatives hang out with other conservatives, are informed by other conservatives, etc.  but it's not "smarts".18:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans

The suggestion that one human is "more evolved" than another simply emphasises that some people don't understand evolution. Evolution has no "direction" - you can't be "more evolved" in the sense of "better". You could conceivably be "better adapted" but, under the circumstances described, that would be silly description too.--Bob"I thought this was supposed to be "Rational" Wiki?." 20:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I heard is also a reliable source on this issue. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 06:00, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Is this too much to ask?
So, I was downstairs getting lunch at the little restaurant in my office building, and caught part of the NRA's "right now, we rival the Westboro Baptist Church and NAMBLA in terms of popularity" press conference.

Aside from my amusement at the Code Pink hecklers crashing it, I noted that their argument is what the gun nuts seem to have coalesced on in the past week -- "we need armed guards to protect schools."

Pardon my French, but is it too God damn much to want better than that for our kids? Am I really that fucking wrong for wanting my nieces and nephew to see their smiling teachers when they arrive at school, not a damn SWAT team member? Am I crazy for wanting my elementary school teacher partner to not have to be the first line of defense?

Yes, Mr. LaPierre, you're right, lots of places do have armed guards. Can we let kids at least wait till middle school till they have to visit one every day? MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 16:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fuck the NRA. Does any other country in the industrialized world have armed guards in its schools? Fuck the NRA. Addressing school shootings with armes guards is like addressing your credit card debt by getting a new credit card instead of dealing with your income and spending problems. It'e like dealing with the black eyes your boyfriend gives you with makeup instead of dumping his ass. Fuck the NRA. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 17:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * He kept saying that the only way to stop someone with a gun is with another gun, and all I could think was "you do know tasers are a thing, right?" <font color="Darkblue">«-Bfa-»  17:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You know what else is a thing? A population full of men who are profoundly alienated from society/struggling with mental illness/have a strong desensitivity to violence/are immersed in an individualistic mode of seeing the world that leaves them with a total lack of empathy for their fellow humans and who have easy access to objects that are designed for the express purpose of killing people. Guns aren't the answer to that, and neither are tasers. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 17:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Will you shut up about mental illness for once? I am sick of you trying to derail every conversation with your crank totalitarian Trotskyist icepick lobotomistic crappola. So are we all. I motion for a vote to block this troll for 2 weeks. (Oh dear... a ban beckons for me methinks. I'm off t' the pub to get rat-arsed then)Dirk Steele (talk) 18:16, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't really feel like digging too deep into it at this moment in time (too busy coughing up a lung) so my mind went with the most direct and practical refutation. Guy's an opportunistic ass either way.  <font color="Darkblue">«-Bfa-»  17:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "George Zimmerman was a security volunteer with a gun." (twitter) Scream!! (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. And I saw one gun nut cite him as an example of the type of person we need guarding schools. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 17:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Why not have armed officers in every convenience store?--Cms13ca (talk) 22:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Or convenience stores in every armed officer. Wouldn't that be something.  23:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

This may shock you, but Dirk Steele is interjecting into the conversation and trying to railroad it into a discussion about psychiatry.

 * Nothing to do with guns. The fact is that his Mother was gonna commit him against his will. He then killed his school psychologist. Like all spree killers he was on the old nasty psychiatric drugs. http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/psych-meds-linked-to-90-of-school-shootings/ Dirk Steele (talk) 18:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh if WND sez it, it must be true! Piss off Dirk. Scream!! (talk) 19:04, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Read the fuckin thread!! See above. The fact is that TheoryofPractice introduced the 'mental illness' angle to this topic not me. I merely responded. Unfortunately ToP has now placed me in the vandal bin in order to censor my responses to his crass theorising shitfog. Dirk Steele (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You are annoying.--[[Image:adsig.png|25px|link=User:AD|AD]]talk 21:18, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly, how much stupidity or malice do you have to possess to stick that cart in front of that horse? Spree killers often medicated for mental illnesses? Quelle fucking suprise. I think you'd have to do a lot better to prove it was the fault of the treatment, not the illness. -- 23:12, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * come on guys, DFTT. 23:36, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

And as the NRA held its press conference
Some guy in PA walked up and down a road, shooting people. Including armed state troopers. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 17:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What the fuck is happening down there? Pardon my ignorance as a Canadian, but fucking seriously. Fucking Christ, now I'm worried for my friends who live in the US! --Revolverman (talk) 20:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Says the guy with a gun in his username. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 20:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Never gone on a rampage, even when I had a gun in my hands. --Revolverman (talk) 20:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * All the things the NRA blamed the shootings on, some of them I haven't heard before. The celebrity one is new. Man of Perspective 21:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Some of those are pretty bogus criticisms, though. I mean, saying "if we have enough money to build sports stadiums we should have enough to protect our children" is not the same as saying sports stadiums lead to mass shootings. DickTurpis (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "With all the foreign aid the United States does, with all the money in the federal budget, can’t we afford to put a police officer in every single school?" My high school had three armed guards (2 high ranked former Marines) at all times and an armed police officer most of the time. Two other high schools I was at had armed guards and/or police present. This argument is invalid.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 21:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless there were mass shootings at those particular schools I fail to see how that invalidates the argument. DickTurpis (talk) 21:28, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Every time I see that "We need armed guards in schools." I can't help but think. "Getting them use to prison early now." --Revolverman (talk) 21:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC) Meh, they're not blaming specific celebrities, but the culture which (according to them) values Hollywood values above children & family values (because nothing says 'family' like a guard with a big old firearm standing at the school gates to keep the peace, right?). You can read the same kind of shtick at Conservapedia, WorldNetDaily, or any other US right-wing source.
 * Reply to Hamilton: Really? Armed guards or police presence at schools are a real thing, not just a weird NRA fantasy?  What times we live in.  21:31, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * For at least part of the time I was in high school there was an armed police officer on the grounds. I didn't think all that much of it. It's not like we had a SWAT team roaming the halls or anything. I don't know how useful he would have been in a Columbine-type situation, but if one should have arisen I'd prefer to have a cop already there than have to wait 10 or 15 minutes for them to arrive. DickTurpis (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just seems like a bizarre use of police time to me. Was he/she mostly just sat around doing nothing.  21:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just like the TSA. Just like a magic rock that repels tigers. Terrorism is such a fucking joke of a threat. Occasionaluse (talk) 21:50, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was a while ago, and I honestly don't remember if the guy was there all the time or just sometimes. I recall he generally could be found in a more open area near the auditorium and cafeteria, which was also right near the entrance nearest the student parking lot. I probably would only see him when I was in that area, which wasn't often. Yeah, it's certainly a dubious use of resources, but for the NRA it's an astoundingly sober suggestion. I was sure they'd at least take an arm the teachers approach, if not arm the students. To see them propose using the people whose actual job it is to prevent crime is actually surprising. DickTurpis (talk) 21:54, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's probably calculated. There will inevitably be more school shootings, so they need to plan ahead. A cop this time. Maybe two next time. Arm the teachers. Arm the students. Yadda, yadda. Whatever sells more bullets. Occasionaluse (talk) 21:59, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * @Dick: They're calling for something that already exists. Their argument is stupid. Seriously, how many shootings have their been in this country in elementary schools? Mine had a guard (unarmed), and I don't remember if my middle school guard was armed or not.
 * @Weasel: it frankly never struck me as weird to have an armed guard until I started hanging out on the internet and reading people calling for armed guards in schools. It still seems weird not to with the frequency of fights in schools. And that was the major thing they did, was break up fights, bark at kids that are late, escort people to the office, that kind of thing.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * They're calling for something that already exists? We have armed guards in every school already? News to me. Some people seemed to be unaware any schools had them at all. DickTurpis (talk) 22:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * We had atleast one county deputy (School was outside technical-city limits) at my school at all times; sometimes two, but his main job was usually to go around and ticket cars in the parking lot and otherwise hang out near the admin offices/front door. And I live in the not crime-ridden, "wealthy" part of town.-- Mikal Harass  Follow 23:00, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Mik, I went to South. In Omaha that's enough. Dick, not every school, but probably most high schools already have one, and shootings in anything lower is obviously incredibly rare, even as a percent of total school shootings.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 23:07, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * 10 years ago, I think my high school had a resident cop too. I'm not sure where she was usually or what she did. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 23:26, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My high school has a resident armed cop as well, not sure what he did besides give lectures about underage drinking and DUI and statutory rape to wellness classes. 00:22, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Armed guards were no help at Columbine. Not that they didn't try. Klebold and Harris took their own lives. --Seth Peck (talk) 23:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Training the groundsmen to be a security guard would be far more efficient, might also mean the kiddies are less inclined to litter. Also why don't they just a missile defence shield and gun turrents to the schools why they are at it. Naca (talk) 00:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Wait, so in order to maintain the Second Amendment, he wants a de facto police state?
Sir! We can't stabilize the Ironometer! We have to evacuate the facility!

And yes, the National Redneck Association blamed video games too. Osaka Sun (talk) 22:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Top comment on Reddit was perfect:
 * The second amendment is necessary to protect ourselves from jackbooted government thugs. Now, would you please hire 100,000 new government employees, give them guns and station them in our schools?
 * Occasionaluse (talk) 22:12, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it is Reddit, so if the suggestion had been private armed guards, comments would be much more approving.  22:21, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A police state where everyone has a gun. I bet I could Kirk an AI good with that logical train-wreck. --Revolverman (talk) 22:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not what a is.  Actually, their idea would address the problem somewhat, but wouldn't be nearly as effective as, oh, I don't know, NOT HAVING GUNS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  -- "Shut up, Brx." 22:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * May I ask you: what do you think of the TSA and CCTV? Osaka Sun (talk) 22:44, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's face it, Brx, the NRA is not about to come out and say "you know what, we were wrong all along. Ban all guns." Their newest proposal is quite a departure from their previous stand, and it's as far as they would go, I'm sure. So I'm a little surprised people seem to be treating it as they would an "arm everyone" proposal. As for not having guns in the first place, if you can find the "uninvent guns" button on your reality inverter please feel free to press it with my blessing. Until then, at least the NRA came up with a proposal that, while not exactly practical, is not impossible. DickTurpis (talk) 22:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not really a solution though, is it? It's just a diversionary tactic from what everyone knows ought to be done. They know full well if they stall long enough then everyone will lose interest in this latest tragedy and their precious weapons will survive until the next time. It's impossible to have a sane and sensible discussion as to just how many guns and of what variety there should be in the US until the 2nd amendment is repealed. In situations like this, the near ancestor worship surrounding the founding fathers just derails any discussion, and usually makes legislation pointless. -- 23:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A bullet tax would work wonders, they could raise some money to possibly use it to fund these guards they are proposing and make a bit extra on the side for other stuff Naca (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ""All bullets should cost 5,000 dollars!" --Revolverman (talk) 02:21, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Interesting word, new to me
philosophooey. Nice :-) JzG (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Technical Question
I'm trying to run an old game that won't run on Win 7 64-bit if it sees that there is more that 2048Mb of memory in your system. Now that's fairly easy to fool by going into msconfig and telling windows to boot up with 2048Mb of memory, but it also means that whenever I want to do something else I have to reset the memory back to full and reboot. I'm just wondering if anybody knows of anyway to fool the program into thinking that there is only 2048Mb total available using a software option rather than rebooting windows constantly?-- Jabba de Chops 11:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What version of Win 7 are you using? Because with professional, enterprise or ultimate you can download an XP virtual machine from MS. Unfortunately Home Premium is not included. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 14:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Home Premium. I am thinking of going done the virtual pc route and install my old XP on it, but I was wondering if there was a simpler option than that.  But I can't find one on the net, so I'll see what I can do, virtual wise.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 14:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you tried running in XP compatibility mode? Tmtoulouse (talk) 15:19, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. The problem is the engine was designed so long ago that it just isn't capable of coping with registered memory of >2GB.  Boot windows with 2GB of mem loaded, no problem, boot windows with 8GB loaded and the game won't run, comes up with 'Unknown error'.  Unfortunately, running a virtual XP didn't work either, the game still crashed with the same problem.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 16:09, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Run it in VMware Player in XP. If it's that old the virtualised PC won't be significantly slower - David Gerard (talk) 23:23, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll have a look at that. The problem seems to be the way that the Silent Storm engine checks available memory before launching the main part of the game, so maybe VMware can tell it it's only dealing with 2GB.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 00:24, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Try VirtualBox; I've used it for a while, and you can definitely make a virtual machine and only allocate it 2gb of ram 149.135.147.66 (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn, it looks like the virtual machines aren't going to work. It looks like the engine isn't all that easy to fool.  I don't suppose anybody knows the hex offsets and values needed to nuke the memory check for Night Watch because it's that, or reboot everytime I want to play it.  Shame really.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 15:38, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Why not just find an old lappy that runs XP? Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 15:41, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just switch to Microsoft BOB and liberally apply YBF. (I've heard that they put BOB on Windows XP CDs, and with the right automagic you can get an OS so bad Microsoft itself ditched it.) [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 19:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Offline
Why were you offline for a few hours last night? Proxima Centauri (talk) 02:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Look a few topics above. Humorless fascist sociopath 02:45, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Which topic? Proxima Centauri (talk) 03:02, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This one. The downtime was to install new software to facilitate Godot's nebulous plan to turn the place into a Christian wiki. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 03:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Madam Oblivious is ever amusing. If you gave her instructions to show up at a convention, she'd arrive two days after everybody left.   04:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Scheduled maintenance takes twelve hours? Wouldn't have guessed that. Anyway, Proxima, couldn't you have gone back to Liberapedia with Toph and those bunches of letters? [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 04:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Six hours. Check recent changes.  The site went offline at around 17:00 UTC & came back on at 23:00.  09:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * While I was writing a long comment. Grrr. Sophie  Wilder  11:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Luckily it was only about Kinder Surprise and Cadbury's creme eggs so little of value was lost. Sophie  Wilder  11:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice the downtime. I was too busy getting smashed with these strange fleshy creatures that exist outside the internet. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>bomination silverbrain.png 13:33, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, for some reason I was getting 503 errors from 11 AM to 11 PM. I was repeatedly trying to access our trilobite recipe because I needed an appetiser for our roast pterodactyl on Newtonsmas. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 16:34, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Wibble
The assembled multitude may enjoy this piece of gibbering lunacy. JzG (talk) 15:35, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

"I became a certified Theta Healing Practitioner earlier this year & through Theta Healing a lot of core beliefs have been cleared & I have found my truth path in life for which I am truly blessed." Theta and clear are scientology terms and the CO$ is usually keen to preserve its copyright. This may be yet another offshoot of scientology disguising itself with mother earth etc. Proxima Centauri (talk) 17:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

DeviantArt (again)!
It's been a while, but I've just uploaded a new image I'm very near certain none of you will care about at best. I don't remember who else here's on DA, and I don't feel like barchive spelunking to info now dated by several months (very quick in Internet time). My profile. (New image's the featured one.) Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 19:14, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Not bad. A bit on the flat side, you should think in terms of structure when you draw even if it's cartooning like this. Take a look at Cartoon Animation by Preston Blair, it's a great resource for 2D cartoonists regardless of whether it's animated or not. There are scans from the original edition (many pages were changed in the current version) here. --Kels (talk) 23:14, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Aspie?
I still can't figure out if I have Asperger's or if I'm just a dick. This sums it up nicely. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 22:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You've probably come to the wrong place with this. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 22:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Asperger's is no longer in the DSM, so it's no longer a recognized medical condition. DS attack in 5, 4, 3...--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 23:09, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * IIRC, the condition itself is still there under the bit on ASDs, it's just not a separate thing called "Asperger's" anymore. 23:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think is a subset of Autism now. I think the most minor form. --Revolverman (talk) 23:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep! No more aspies... so just a dick then. --Dirk Steele (talk) 23:34, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I was mostly poking fun at DS. Aspergers has always been considered part of the Autism spectrum of disorders, why it received its own special mention is somewhat beyond me, but it's always fun to watch the anti-psychiatry goons gloat that it's "been removed from the DSM" as if it has.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 23:41, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It is not the anti-psychiatry lot who gloat or even get involved in this. Most of the criticism has come from aspies and their families who worry about whether this redefinition will affect the resources provided. (of course the anti-psychs laugh a little when each new DSM has to continually redefine diseases or add new ones or take out the old stuff. All based on votes and nothing to do with scientific progress.) Dirk Steele (talk) 00:11, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure sure kid, whatever.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 00:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So what the fuck am I supposed to do now? It can't be over. For 20 years I've been watching the stratospheric rise in incidences of internet aspergers among merely odd people. How can flipping a switch to turn a computer on put someone on the autism spectrum, and then only when they're communicating through the keyboard? I did not get a degree in armchair aspiology to let this mystery go unsolved. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]]100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 17:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

TheoryOfPractice, you don't have Asperger's. It would cause you to behave like a dork rather than a dick. If you're seriously concerned about your mental health, go see a mental health professional. Self-diagnosis is no good. If you're just looking for ways to be a dick & feel OK about it, try embracing a narrow-minded fundamentalist worldview. That always works. 01:58, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * " It would cause you to behave like a dork rather than a dick." I can do both, can't I? I don't seriously don't think I have Asperger's, and FWIW in these times, we could all use some mental health care -- most of my peers are medicated/in therapy. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 02:05, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. 02:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry to derail a little but I think there's no such thing as a completely objective classification of diseases. It's a Platonic ideal, just like the concept of a species (as demonstrated by ring species). There is nothing wrong or unscientific with agreeing on the classification of diseases by voting or consensus. --Tweenk (talk) 03:54, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * (Pluto is too a planet! )[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  15:41, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So, trying to classify things is an attempt to force the world to make sense. The truth is, the world doesn't make sense. Accepting that has just done wonders for my mental health.--Spud (talk) 15:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Tim Tebow, Rex Ryan, and the Jets
I don't care what your religious or political affiliations are, not playing Tim Tebow has got to be one of the dumbest football decisions this year in the NFL. Rex Ryan has to be fired. FlamingModerate (talk) 00:37, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Why? Nobody seems to think the guy is NFL-caliber. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 00:41, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * They've got to try something different though, surely? Man of Perspective 01:32, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Stop calling me "Shirley." Didn't they start the other guy today? From what little I've been able to glean from reading the captions on sports talk shows at the gym (the sum total of my engagement with pro sports) they've written off the season, will trade Sanchez and Tebow, and try again next year. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 01:41, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt Tebow would have done anything to stop the Jets season hemorrhaging like it has, but A) why not put him in? Unless he starts beating up fans, he can't make this season any worse for the Jets and B) Jumping your number two for your number three is a dick move, and could have longer ramifications then this season alone. --Revolverman (talk) 03:13, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It may suck for Tebow that he got passed over for McElroy, but in reality Tebow's really no better than him. The Jets' problem is that their #1 who has a lot of potential just can't seem to pull it all together anymore and they don't have anyone good to take his place. They shouldn't have bought into Tebowmania in the first place and acquired someone better. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  04:06, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Likely true, but this will still cause problems of distrust for the team if they are willing to break rank once. A very stupid move by the Jets. --Revolverman (talk) 04:11, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A significant portion of the team likely doesn't mind breaking ranks in this case, though. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  04:19, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Man, that Christian hype machine really had ruined Tebow's pro career, hasn't it?--Revolverman (talk) 04:26, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a liberal conspiracy. Osaka Sun (talk) 05:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Tebow has to be the worst practice QB ever in order for this to happen. I mean, as one of the biggest Tebow "haters" out there (when I can get myself to give a damn about the sport), it's actually worse to see him not play.  We have to constantly hear that 'all he did was win', and 'he's being persecuted for his beliefs', rather than watching him have the worst stat lines in the game and proving how awful he is.  Q0 (talk) 17:17, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Mitt didn't want to be president
At least according to his oldest son Tag--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 01:39, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * File under "sour grapes" -- Tweenk (talk) 03:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So shouldn't they be happy then? Osaka Sun (talk) 06:35, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So why did he run? Why did he spend a shitload of his own money trashing Gingrich and Santorum? Sophie  Wilder  09:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if you knew how reprehensible Gingrich and Santorum were, and you had that kind of money to spend, wouldn't you spend millions trashing them too?  10:17, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Me? No, it was obvious they were unelectable - Santorum's views repelled moderates and Gingrich was plain despicable. I still wonder why the GOP's big players didn't have a go, They could have won; Obama was almost a sitting duck. Sophie  Wilder  10:41, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

" I still wonder why the GOP's big players didn't have a go." I wonder who you're thinking about, specifically. Get past Jeb Bush and you're already getting into crazytown. Plus, the GOP is so profoundly divided that anyone that could have been more electable to most Americans (T-Paw comes to mind) would also be smart enough to know that the wingnuts and losers that he would have to appeal to to get the nomination would drive him so far away from a reasonable position that it would be impossible to get back. Also, it's worth reading the entire article that the HuffPo piece is cribbed from. Obama may have been a sitting duck, but he was a stiing duck well-armed with an incredible machine designed to get him re-elected. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 13:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * with an incredible machine designed to get him re-elected - yeah, the GOP. Ba-dum-tish. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>sshole silverbrain.png 17:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>bomination silverbrain.png 17:25, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Damned TV Tropes. You there, little boy. What day is it? [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]]100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 17:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The next Apocalypse
So, the world nearly ends every few months, or year at most. We just managed to barely survive a world ending event, so, when will the next one be? Are the world-ending-woo-miesters already talking?--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 03:39, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Bah, wake me in 2032 when the Unix clock runs out it's 32-bit integer so I can have nostalgia for the Y2K panic, and we'll have to reanimate the corpses of all the by-then dead COBOL programmers. --CoyoteSans (talk) 07:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Cellphone help
So, after owning a battery-failing iPhone for over four years with an annoying contract, I now have the opportunity to choose any smartphone on the market for free.

RationalWiki techies, without channeling the wrath of the OS Wars, which should I go for? Osaka Sun (talk) 03:52, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Motorola MicroTAC 9800X. It's all the rage right now, I swear. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  03:57, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Before anybody makes any suggestions: what carrier are you with, and are you willing/able to change to get a particular phone?   04:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Rogers. Osaka Sun (talk) 04:45, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at Rogers' phone selection... If you have a lot of apps and contacts on your current iPhone, then I would recommend buying the iPhone 5. Any existing apps and contacts will transfer over with ease, plus the iPhone 5's build quality, battery life, and camera quality are excellent.  Get the 32GB version if you plan to keep an enormous amount of music on your phone (1,000+ songs qualifies as "enormous" in this case) and/or take a shit-ton of pictures and video with it, otherwise the 16GB version is fine.   05:34, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That being said, buying a phone simply because people on the internet recommended it to you is rather foolish. Buying a smartphone is like buying a laptop:  there are features you want that are dealbreakers, then there are features you're willing to compromise on (I'm leaving out budgetary concerns since, as you said, you can have your pick regardless of price in this case).  The important thing to remember is what do you most want in a phone?  Is a hardware QWERTY keyboard a must-have for you?  Do you not mind the all-plastic feel of many smartphones?  Do you prefer textured or rubberized plastic for a better grip?  What size screen do you want?  Do you want a removable battery?  Removable SIM card?  Access to a microSD slot?  Do you need a dedicated camera button?  Do you not like Apple or iOS?  Do you not like Google or Android?  Do you not like Microsoft or Windows Phone 8?  Carefully consider the answers to these questions.
 * Next, I would highly recommend visiting a Rogers store, preferably an authorized dealer or official store. (Stay away from the electronics sections of big box stores; at least in the U.S., big box stores replace the innards of smartphones with foam to deter thieves.  You will not get a good feel for a phone by holding one of those.  Once their guts are replaced with styrofoam, rigid phones become flexible and buttons mush rather than click.)
 * Then, handle all of the phones you are interested in, and a few you aren't. Use the phones a little bit.  Type out a fake message in the crappy memo program all phones come preloaded with, surf the web a bit, take some pictures.  Does anything about these tasks bother you?  Really bother you, or are you just not used to doing it that particular phone's way yet?  Keep in mind, most of the quirks that will drive you absolutely insane about a phone won't become apparent until you've been using it for hours or days, but sometimes you'll hit a show-stopper.  (I played with a Palm OS phone when I was still shopping around for a phone in early 2011, and I got stuck in a submenu that I couldn't back out of no matter what I did.  I put it down and ceased considering it.)
 * Remember that you'll be using this phone for potentially several years to come. It's not a decision to be made casually.  (Though I continue to recommend the iPhone 5 if you have no major complaints with how your current iPhone works and you just want an upgrade with minimum hassle.)   11:07, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm only asking for third-party suggestions, of course I'm going to check it out beforehand. Osaka Sun (talk) 11:37, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay then. I apologize for being so gruff.
 * In addition to the iPhone 5, I'd definitely look at the Samsung Galaxy S III. It's Samsung's latest and greatest and the current flagship for Android: its CPU can handle most everything, a large and incredible screen, acceptable battery life, and accessible SIM card and microSD slots.  (I'm not a fan of the S III's "all the glossy plastic in the world" look, but that's a personal preference.)  If you want something different, I would certainly recommend the Nokia Lumia 920.  It runs Windows Phone 8, which is an amazing OS, though the app selection is dire. The Lumia's screen is amazing and its camera is quite good, though it has no SD card slot or accessible SIM card. Battery's locked in, too, but that's increasingly the case with high-end smartphones.  Those are the two non-iPhones I would recommend.   13:03, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also consider the comically huge but ridiculously useful Galaxy Note. A coworker has one and raves about it. He scribbles notes on it in meetings. (Yes, he was actually writing notes, not playing Bejeweled.) - David Gerard (talk) 14:01, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I like my Nokia C3. It lets me turn off the ringer so I don't have to talk to anybody. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 15:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Not talking to anybody is even easier with no phone at all. It also cost less, plus you don't need to make a choice. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 18:20, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

If RationalWiki Were a Country...
I saw a similar discussion about Conservapedia in the archives somewhere, what about RationalWiki? I'd say Australia, because even with the squabbling and in-fighting, eventually the right stuff gets done. And we let some crazies keep spouting rubbish. Man of Perspective 04:43, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Crazy, insane, nuts... so many many terms for people who think a different thought from yours. Nigger homo spik, whatever your hivemind wants.. and of course block me vandalbin me and place me in the mental hospital you call the 'crank space'. you twatflapdumbfucker. ... http://www.taximusic.com/hosting/home.php?artist=nickstuart --Dirk Steele (talk) 15:55, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Rationalwiki puts the c*nt back in "country." Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 04:57, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Robbie Fulks rocks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8T_G4u1rAs --Dirk Steele (talk) 15:55, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * We can't be Australia; goats aren't poisonous like sea wasps. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 14:40, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * or even venomous. Sophie  Wilder  16:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But they can probably take your baby. Naca (talk) 00:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What would CP be? North Korea?--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 03:47, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking the Confederacy, for no other reason than Jesusland is not an independent nation. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 04:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I reckon CP would be more like Ceauşescu's Romania, the craziness of the leader is the clincher. Maybe somewhere in Scandanavia for RW? Man of Perspective 05:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Your naivete is endearing. Try more like Somalia. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 05:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I like to think of Citizendium as a seasteading wannabe country. "Our paradise of knowledge and articles is not dead, it's just run into complications."   05:37, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * RW is more like the Holy Roman Empire around the 1600s. Not really united, and the principalities openly trying to kill each other. --Revolverman (talk) 06:09, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm, I'm the new guy here, so I'm still trying to figure things out, in the same vain as the above post, you could say Ancient Greece. Man of Perspective 06:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ancient Greece could unite to fight a common enemy. I kinda don't see that with us. --Revolverman (talk) 06:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * China, by virtue of its goat population (149.37 million).--Brendiggg (talk) 06:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wyoming. 10:09, 23 December 2012 (UTC) C ® ackeЯ
 * Canada, with occasional outbreaks of Somalia. Sophie  Wilder  11:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * China, because of the disparity between its theoretical principles and governing practices, the inconsistent foreign policy, the rocky relationships with its neighbours and peers, the whitewashing of its history and selective discarding of its traditions and culture, the mindless bureaucracy, the widespread corruption, and the brutal treatment of dissidents. Flep Hendersen (talk) 15:56, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Trust me, if you don't look at the talk pages, and most viewers wouldn't, everything looks calm. Somewhere that looks calm and composed on the outside but actually isn't is more like RW. Man of Perspective 01:25, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So... China then? --Revolverman (talk) 01:31, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * RW is like no country. What country allows anarchy? Dirk Steele (talk) 05:00, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * How about Revolution-era France, with largely defencive weapon of guillotine? [[File:Planarian_Latin.png]] I like planaria, but I don't speak Latin 18:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

the more we learn, the easier it is to be a creationist
So if you've not yet seen it, watch BBC's Hidden life of the Cell. It's pretty amazing if you are not in the sciences, or haven't taken cell bio in the last few years. But as you watch it, realizing just how "perfect" and "planned" and "designed" this whole thing is (those terms are often used, sadly), it's pretty easy to understand why someone says "fuck, there MUST be an intelligent designer to make this all work out". Little tiny walking proteins, with little tiny reverse gears, and little tiny viruses using them to their advantage. It's a must see, of computer animated show-off science! <font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  16:24, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh, it's a cool-looking copyright violation, but I prefer this depiction. (Thanks for having me check Procidis again; the iPad app is now available where I live!) [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 16:31, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a lot harder to use that as evidence for creationism if you keep in mind that the little walking proteins and tiny viruses came first, and everything else around them came later. The creationist viewpoint seems to be that all these things are so finely tuned that they must've been made for our advantage, when it's basically the opposite. X Stickman (talk) 16:38, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oncogenes. 'Nuff said. Polite Timesplitter talk to me sugar, but best keep it on thedown-low 16:49, 23 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem with these kinds of presentations is that they are created to look designed. They aren't a good reflection of what is really going on. Reality is much messier, much more random, and would make a horrible looking computer animation that made no sense at all, and of obvious horrible "design." Tmtoulouse (talk) 17:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Especially because atoms aren't Dalton's billiard balls but fuzzy blobs of pure chaos :-D [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 19:05, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * TMT - if you are not worried about creationists, i think these are GREAT for lay people and the 8-15 year old crowd to get them into science. of course it's not that perfect and pretty, but the presentation is such - dramatic, visually exciting, BIG - that kids can say "oh, i want to learn more".  rather than my cell bio text from college which showed blobs and said "there are protiens that travel along the dna strands reading them..."  i get that these shows will be mis-used by creationists, but largely, i think the benefit of something fun and exciting and easy(ish) to grasp is far better than the drawbacks of it being misused.  [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  22:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fun and easy to grasp for children and creationists. I like the sound of that tagline. Vulpius (talk) 23:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * God flunked his engineering finals. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The team that made the original animation (that was re-hashed badly in Expelled) specifically went on record pointing this out. They had to effectively cut down the chaos and density of things because it would be impossible to visualise. But you'd have to actually watch the making-ofs and pay attention to it to find that out, rather than just listening to the punchlines and the ID/creationist interpretation. At the very least, all these things magically make the solvation environment invisible. Ha! Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>postate silverbrain.png 17:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The more we learn, the more we realise just how inapplicable humanity's 'half-baked' conceptions (like creationism) are from reality. Take for example, the research on 'junk' DNA. Our genomes can be seen as awfully messy and makeshift - that is, amassed together by trial and error from across the eons. Of course through evolutionary processes (you know how they are), this very principle of trial and error, mutation and the like, is largely responsible for ourselves being complex primates as opposed to the more humble earthworm. This is fairly consistent with the general idea we are quite 'undesigned' if you will - Life is, we are, a complex chemical reaction that has 'emerged'. Now if you google 'JUNK DNA' you'll likely find that supporters of intelligent design are responding to these studies - Almost suggesting that the hidden function of JUNK DNA and the wonderful results of a haphazard, trial-and-error genetic system call for a creator. He (and rather unjustly it is always a "he") almighty god worked it out, maybe planned it all! Maybe! maybe! But then you could always claim everything was 'designed'. Really I myself feel there's a lot more to the complexity and apparent harmony of the universe. Be there an intelligent designer, a 'creator', it would be probably of a nature so far from our own human concepts that a god-fearing religious zealot would have no right to say 'I told you so'.  Charidemus (talk) 15:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Science was wrong before ergo goddidit. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem silverbrain.png 22:35, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Spam (again)
We've all had those spam 409 Scam emails but this one takes the biscuit:

<font color=Blue>Генгис 10:21, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Essential context here for non-Brits. Doctor Dark (talk) 15:53, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't seem essential to me. It's just a British version of the Nigerian prince scam. Got a chuckle out of it, though. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] Flatworms are fun! Talk to me 16:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Mervyn King does not just work with the Bank of England, he's the Governor. In the US it would be like getting an email from the Chairman of the Fed.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 16:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Does the Bank of England even issue bank accounts in that way? I'm sure I would have noticed if they did... Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 17:21, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Funniest Spam I've ever seen! Thanks for sharing this!  Made my day.--Bob"I thought this was supposed to be "Rational" Wiki?." 17:54, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of when I got a hard snail mail (yes, real mail) from a "lawyer" informing us our rich whatever in Spain had died, and left her multi-euro fortune to us. Two problems. One, our last name is English, not Spanish, and second, about 90% of my family tree comes from Russia. Quite honestly anyway, if that much money was on the line I'd expect the lawyer to fly to my god damn house to inform me of it. --Revolverman (talk) 19:39, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Somewhere in the world, some rich guy is desperately trying to move his money around discretely, and willing to pay good money to strangers to help him out, but just can't find any willing volunteers for some reason. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>postate silverbrain.png 17:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

2012: The Best Year for Science
So, let's go through the list:
 * found the Higgs Boson
 * put one of the most advances robots on Mars
 * found mathematical proof our universe definitely had a start
 * managed to get SpaceX launched, making its NASA's first successful involvement with the world of private space flight

That's obviously not everything, but it's still an astounding list. I think a round of applause is in order for the men and women who made all it possible. ...your faithful student, Twilight Sparkle. (talk) 03:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And, not to mention, the 2012 "theory" was disprovedPercivalundefined 03:36, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a pretty good year to me. I think we also survived two Apocalypses, so a good year all around!--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 03:39, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but it won't be a successful science year until we have sexbots. DickTurpis (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This is an exciting time to be alive. [[File:Planarian_Latin.png]] I like planaria, but I don't speak Latin 16:52, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Pretty happy about the success of the Kepler telescope.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 19:40, 25 December 2012 (UTC)


 * On the minus side, Mitt resurrected the zombie corpse of Reaganomics and nobody laughed in his face, homeopaths are still legally allowed to lie for profit and wingnuts are allowed to pretend that the reason science teachers don't teach religion is because their freedoms are being oppressed. JzG (talk) 00:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't know Reaganomics was ever "sick" let alone needed to be resurrected in American politics.

A bad guy with a gun...
...can be stopped by something other than a good guy with a gun, namely a group of unarmed liberals. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 10:35, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this. Another reason for me to be glad I joined a UU church. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 15:20, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

These anecdotal examples are pointless (from both sides of the debate). A concealed carry permit holder pulled out a gun in Oregon and arguably stemmed the number of fatalities to only 2. There was a case in Colorado, where an armed security guard killed a gunman at that church. A school shooting in Mississippi in the 1990s was culminated when the assistant principal stopped the gunman by using his firearm. How about we talk about how all of the mass shootings that have happened this year have happened in blue states? Unfair to bring up what is probably a coincidence, but that's the nature of these anecdotal arguments. FlamingModerate (talk) 07:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * On this point, I feel the discussion of gun control vs. gun rights is an overly simplistic paradigm, which fails to take into account our Constitutional restrictions in banning firearms, or from the other side, the practical inability to use firearms in defense in certain situations (i.e in an elementary school or in a dim theater). Also, there are civil rights issues that will come up in any type of gun control scheme (e.g. did Plaxico Burress deserve to have the book thrown at him?).  This is not a simple issue, and I wish both sides would stop trying to make it sound as such. FlamingModerate (talk) 07:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The main issue with the "gun saved people" is that you're talking cure rather than prevention - but prevention requires a massive change in attitude not just towards gun control as an idea, but the very concept of weapons being normalised. And the second issue is that in most cases where a shooter has been stopped, it's either by police (occasionally off duty) or while they reload. The idea of a heroic firefight that the NRA seems to want to conjure up is bullshit. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 17:49, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Where the anti-gun lobby meets the anti-video games lobby.
"While studies have found no connection between video games and gun violence, the case of Medal of Honor Warfighter illustrates how the firearms and video game industries have quietly forged a mutually beneficial marketing relationship." Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 15:19, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * By that logic, they have also forged a "Mutually beneficial marking relationship" with the space, car, sword, farming, aircraft, drug, police... etc etc industry. --Revolverman (talk) 21:26, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Was going to make a joke about "Big Sword," but then I remember how literal that is for the Final Fantasy series.  21:38, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe a sword buff friend of mine likes to call those in Final Fantasy "Scrap metal on a hilt." --Revolverman (talk) 21:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously video games' glorification of edged blade violence has an effect on our impressionable youth! How else do you explain the epidemic of knife violence in Great Britain? --CoyoteSans (talk) 07:12, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * When I originally heard of MoH outright promoting "muh gurns" like that, I just shook my head and hoped it was a ploy to get the extreme cosplayers to buy it. Polite Timesplitter talk to me sugar, but best keep it on thedown-low 09:30, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

6 o'clock news
Just listenening to the news on the radio;  [ The Pope urged China's new leadership to respect the contribution of religion in creating a "fraternal society"] followed immediately by, Gunmen in the northern Nigerian state of Yobe have shot dead at least six Christians, the army and local officials say.  How the fuck does that religion thing work then, Benny? <font color=Blue>Генгис 18:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Christmas is all about the bumsex . And so this is Christmas/And what have you bumsexed? - David Gerard (talk) 19:09, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's been bugging me too. He's complaining that the government doesn't have a democratic mandate for gay marriage. Now remind me, how does that democracy thing work in the Catholic Church? <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 21:59, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't they have a vote on who gets to bugger which kid after mass? Polite Timesplitter talk to me sugar, but best keep it on thedown-low 09:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm confused as to what this discussion is about... A certain proportion of any country's population is going to be religious, and respecting the right of that group to practice their religion (without restricting or subverting it) is hardly controversial. And there are terrorist attacks in Nigeria on Christian communities. And a democratically elected government is (at least in principle) required a mandate, whereas the Church is no more democratic than a corporation.
 * So how on earth does any of this reflect in any way on religion? 220.233.79.146 (talk) 12:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The point is not that there should be freedom of religion but the idea that you need religion to create a fraternal society - or indeed to provide any sort of moral framework. Because all the evidence is that people of religion are no more moral than those who eschew it, and diversity of religion actually contributes more to human discord than it does to human harmony. Furthermore, a corporation is ultimately accountable to its shareholders whilst a a church is strictly a top-down organisation. Also, democratically elected governments generally have mandates from their electorate to govern as they see fit because not every issue is considered in isolation at the ballot box - it's only those concerned with a single issue who demand that it be so. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 19:07, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The funny thing about that "mandate" complaint, is that we've sorta had a referendum called a "census", which says that a not-too-insignificant portion of the country think the CofE is irrelevant. There's no mandate to kowtow to their outdated fucked-up homophobia, either. And if it was about protecting democracy, where was all the piping up over top-up fees and cuts that the government didn't have a mandate for? Aye, a bit quiet on those unmandated decisions. Gawd these people are awful, really. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>sshole silverbrain.png 22:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Genghis, you are making a fallacy here, by arguing against "you need to create religion to create a fraternal society" when what the pope said is quite different.  "respect the contributions of religion in creating a fraternal society".  There is no doubt, plenty of evidence that religion **contributes** to creating a fraternal society.  There is no lack of evidence it hinders it as well.  but you are arguing  against a fictitious boogy man, the way you put it.[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  22:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. Pope Benedict has a history of making "religion good, no-religion bad" statements, which isn't the best approach to an increasingly secular world.  23:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't read that from the comment at all it is put in context. Recently China has tried to subvert the structure of the Church by installing their own bishop. This impinges on the rights of the people to freely practice their religion. Recognising that people are religious and have the right to practice this without interference of the state certainly does contribute to a free and congenial society. While religion does create diversity, this reflects a lack of recognition of other creeds - which is exactly what the Pope's message was addressing.
 * Even if that context is removed, the comment is still entirely accurate. It is undeniable that historically religion has formed the basis of many societies. It was a major component of tribal beliefs, was completely central to European communities in the Middle Ages, and until the last 50-60 years has been a key part of Western civilisation. You're welcome to argue that it creates divide (I'd argue that it divides communities rather than creating division within communities) or that religous folk are no more moral than non-religious folk (there's no evidence for this, and based on whose morals?) but it's undeniable that religion has played a central role in the evolution of society.
 * I don't see any reason why the Church should be expected to operate democratically. To do so completely undermines the whole concept of religion, being an unwavering belief and moral code. At the end of the day (in their mind) the Church is answerable to God (ie one shareholder with unchanging views) or, on a more human level, the College of Cardinals. The Church has every right to speak on behalf of those who they claim to represent, just as an environmentalist lobby group has the right to speak on behalf of the people it claims to be protecting. 220.233.79.146 (talk) 00:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The genetics of a mass-shooter
In all the chaos and heartache surrounding the Connecticut shooting, for the first time ever, scientists will examine the genetics a mass shooter to search for genetic clues that might help explain Adam Lanza's behavior and, by extension, help them use whatever they find to figure out why the fuck the kid did this. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 09:31, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be funny if eugenics managed to pass Congress but gun control remained stymied indefinitely? 10:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. The search for the "Callous, unemotional gene." Be right back, dealing with the alarm bells going off in my head. Polite Timesplitter talk to me sugar, but best keep it on thedown-low 10:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, the callous sociopathic gene. Upon its isolation, I will be more justified than ever in dismissing people I disagree with!   12:30, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't the guy who first find the "psychopath" gene find that he had it? And that subsequently 50% of the population had it - which is a pretty shitty prior probability for some magic test. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 17:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sometime later this decade: "SCIENTISTS DISCOVER PSYCOPATHS HAVE 'ATG' REPEATED 27 TIMES IN SOME TRANSPOSON AS OPPOSED TO NORMAL 26!" [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 18:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The genetics of a nation. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/us-killings-tragedies-pakistan-bug-splats Read it. Face the facts kiddies.. The Prisoners Dilemma (game theory) and the march of technology (one day we will all own a personal computer and a nuclear bomb) with the slow progress of evolution of consciousness over memes - one day soon a school shooting will be considered child's play. End of the world stuff will happen tomorrow. The singularity is in sight.. Dirk Steele (talk) 22:53, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "Wouldn't it be funny if eugenics managed to pass Congress...?" Been there, done that. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 01:45, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy Boxing Day
Boxing Day is traditionally the day following Christmas Day, when servants and tradesmen would receive gifts from their superiors. Ha! Fuck you..... Dirk Steele (talk) 16:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No, no, please. Fuck you. I insist. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 16:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh look, Dick Dirk Steele said something again. Isn't that cute? [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 17:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So the name has nothing to do with the euphemism for vagina? Gotcha. 18:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC) C ® ackeЯ
 * Droit de seigneur. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 18:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone has got to add this to WIGO
Some old crap resurrected by Theory of Practice.

No, it's not an Eddie Izzard sketch, it's hte latest astute and discerning political commentary, courtesy of Conservapedia: were kangaroos on the Ark? http://creation.com/images/pdfs/cabook/chapter17.pdf --Let Them Eat Cake (talk) 16:17, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And you're posting this here because...? <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 17:06, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing new under the sun with creationists. CMI are desperate liars, but they didn't make this up. Kangaroos on the ark goes back to modern "flood geology" with Whitcomb and Morris in the 60s. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|95px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]]100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 18:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Whatever happened to Virtual Reality?
I remember in the early nineties that VR was the Next Big Thing, and that everyone wanted to get their hands on VR. Then when we entered the aughts, it kinda faded away. What killed the pipe dream? -- TechCheese bemoan 08:38, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Same problem as 3D in movies: the actual interface was shit. And there was nothing to actually do with it - David Gerard (talk) 10:11, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Basically, like 3D, there was no market for it in porn - David Gerard (talk) 10:15, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You just stopped searching ;) RE the above, when you say 3D in movies, do you mean the earlier days of 3D or more recent developments with more things coming out in 3D? Polite Timesplitter talk to me sugar, but best keep it on thedown-low 10:16, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, my university removed its public computer lab just to install a VR lab (open to grad students and the school's funders only). If nothing else, I guess 3D/VR/etc technology is still a research grant gimmick... 99.50.98.145 (talk) 11:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I know that in the oil industry they sometimes use VR to explore the vast quantity of 3-D seismic data. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 11:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Virtual Reality features that glove that lets you "feel" things in the virtual world, right? Wasn't there talk of extneding that to full body suits? The possibilities for porn were certainly there (although I realise that doesn't necessarily equate to a market).--Spud (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering how we've just survived the return of gimmicky 3D, I have a strong feeling that rehashed virtual reality is next in the pipeline. Vulpius (talk) 15:21, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The shift is towards augmented reality these days. So you might be looking in the wrong places for what the technology is like these days. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>bomination silverbrain.png 17:22, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * My new HDTV does 3D. It's certainly the best way to watch Avatar.--Bob"I thought this was supposed to be "Rational" Wiki?." 17:56, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I remember this one time a Virtual Boy gave my friend seizures. Occasionaluse (talk) 18:10, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's just lost the buzzword value. I don't think there was a discontinuity in terms of research in computer graphics/hardware etc. --SClaus (talk) 21:40, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

This just in

 * Virtual reality (niche construction + digital physics) surrounds and envelopes you. You just cannot see it - any more than a fish can see the water. Dirk Steele (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Riiiiight. Sophie  Wilder  21:55, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Digital physics, the future is here now. We only recognise it in hindsight. The mind cannot see the mind, the eyes cannot see one's own eyes, the finger tip cannot touch itself - bloody hell I should live in the Wiccan paradise of Glastonbury. Brighton is cool though.. Hey.. someone free me from the vandal bin pleeeaase Dirk Steele (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Christ, is there any BS you don't subscribe to? Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>pathetic silverbrain.png 22:34, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The vandal bin surrounds and envelopes you. You just cannot see it. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 23:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Is Dick Dirk anything more than a concern troll? I really feel a block may be in order, given the contents of his contributions. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 15:52, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

"'All natural' sounds good, but I think 'safe and effective' sounds better."
So I've been doing lots and lots of research as of late for information and helpful strategies on dealing with my ADHD in order to help me with my upcoming job promotion (which would require me to work about 3/4 of the time at a desk job). Needless to say, anytime one pursues anything involving ADD/ADHD, they come across the typical "natural cure" nonsense that has become so popular. But in my searching, I came across a particular rant by comedian Rick Green where he discusses why "all natural" doesn't equal "good for you" that I thought might be of interest to this community. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 11:34, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true whatever you're taking or using "stuff" for. 'Natural' ≠ 'Beneficial'. Scream!! (talk) 12:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Arsenic, belladonna and fugu are all "natural".  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 12:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Some people eat fugu after removing the poisonous parts. (Not perfect, but in most cases....) Maybe a better example would be box jellyfish, which are too small to eat/harvest effectively and kill quickly and on contact? [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 18:43, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well of course they do, but really it's about the thrill of gastronomic Russian roulette; because, after all, some people actually do die - which was the point of my post. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 18:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Adult ADHD? Easy to deal with. From the DSM-IV. Do not 'run or climb trees inappropriately' and never say you have 'forgotten your homework'. Just say the dog ate it. You have not been charged for this advice. Just thank me later. Dirk Steele (talk) 07:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of Boxing Day.
Christmas is over. Take down that ridiculous hat logo. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 18:53, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It should never have gone up in the first place, if I had anything to say about it. But... now that the dirty deed is did, it needs to stay up til Three Kings Day, eleven days hence. 18:57, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Valantines day is coming, what is appropriate for the Brain, flowers, chocolates or hearts ? Hamster (talk) 20:34, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Call the fucking whambulance... Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic silverbrain.png 20:43, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * On the thirteenth day of Christmas, the hat was taken down - David Gerard (talk) 21:35, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm with hat. It should stay till next year. --Revolverman (talk) 22:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * [[File:Goodpost.gif]] [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 01:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I like the hat, but now that Christmas is over it can go back in the closet until next December. <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  01:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

My vote is that once the traditional 12 days are up, we change it to a more fashionable hat. Say, a pork pie. --Kels (talk) 03:58, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent idea. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 04:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I put it up on the 19th because my house was getting horribly Christmassy (there's a Christmas-obsessed 5yo here) and the Bar reminded me. I was going to take it down today, since Boxing Day is over. But obviously the mob should decide. QUICK, DEMOCRACY! - David Gerard (talk) 12:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Take it down. 15:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep it as long as we can before somebody from outside the wiki complains, then change it to a pork pie or something, as per Kels. [[File:Planaria_Icon.png]] <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 16:02, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Somebody from outside the wiki, like who? 17:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What's an "outside the wiki"? Sophie  Wilder  17:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Seventy-six votes from President Marcos to eliminate headwear. Bye bye hat! - David Gerard (talk) 23:21, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

North Korea's hot new export!
http://youtu.be/B0WhdhbImLM

Hey, it plays better then big rigs! Bonus points for insulting you the entire drive then begging you to spend some of those dirty American dollars in North Korea. --Revolverman (talk) 02:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "The simplicity of the gameplay, and the toned down graphics, serve as a welcome throwback to games of the past which focused far more on gameplay than visual effects. Those who are old enough to remember 8-bit consoles and the hours spent playing them will take note of the concept that flashy effects still take a back seat to the challenge of the game itself. In this setting, Pyongyang Racer offers great promise except for those who hope to find the legendary unicorn lair known to be sequestered in Pyongyang's past."
 * From the website for the game. So, in actuality, the complete visual and auditory suck of the game is a throwback to the 8-bit era (because those are 8-bit graphics), not laziness or incompetence. Read the rest of the description they have there — they really sell it. Nihilist 02:28, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure this is parody, especially given the 'unicorn' reference. Peter Subsisting on honey 02:54, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw that it's made by Nosotek, so i don't think so. The site i linked to might be. Nihilist 03:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * North Korea freaks me out... Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist silverbrain.png 06:08, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * How did you figure that out? You could be right there though. Peter Subsisting on honey 08:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Repulsive commentary
Moved to Forum:Drama dump Sophie  Wilder  17:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I feel like a bad person now...
...for feeling disturbed by an ad that was just on TV encouraging donations to children with cleft palates. Seeing the picture just makes me squeamish, and I feel like a psychopath for the rest of the day. In other news, happy Newtonsmas! <font face="comic sans ms">Immortality's fun, except when you become a two-headed monster Talk to me 16:00, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a reason the ad was asking for donations. It's because cleft palates are disturbing.  So not liking a harelip is totally normal.  The best you can do is not ostracize anybody who has one (although in the States, you're not likely to encounter that, since the surgery is pretty accessible), and if you can afford it, donate funds for corrective surgery-- "Shut up, Brx." 16:04, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've not seen the ad in question but assume it's for the Smile Train. Cleft palates are not just visually disturbing but present medical and social problems for those afflicted. Depending upon severity, a cleft palate can present eating, drinking and breathing problems for the sufferer as well as social isolation and psychological problems. Corrective surgery  is relatively easy and cheap in the west, but in under-developed countries often goes untreated. Through Smile Train western surgeons give up their time to perform surgeries in places like India where it can really transform a child's life. I'm not a biologist but as far as I understand it the upper lip is the last part of the face to form and cleft palates and hare lips result from the process not being completed. There is also an apparent genetic tendency for Aians to have a higher incidence of the defect.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 20:58, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Since we are better and smarter than conservapedia, maybe we should start showing people?
I was angry reading the Conservapedia homosexuality page, and I was wondering if it was possible, copyright-wise and within the rules of RationalWiki, to take the Conservapedia page and show how wrong it is. The Conservapedia article will be attributed to Conservapedia, then after the article or maybe with side-notes added in to the article, show all the mistakes and awful sources. We could do this with a couple of the most viewed Conservapedia pages, which look to me to be the most biased and wrong as well. For example, Conservapedia would have us believe that homosexuals are violent murderers. They make the claims that homosexuals commonly kill, that homosexuals are more violent when they kill, and that homosexuals are more likely to kill other homosexuals.

They have a few sources to support this:

1. This source is my favorite. It is used to support the idea that "When Gays Attack," they do so with excessive force, or as mentioned in the article, "with special emphasis on overkill" It's my favorite because it doesn't support that claim whatsoever. It supports the claim that people kill gays "with a special emphasis on overkill," probably because they were hate crimes. This was based on information gathered between 1982-1992, when gays were generally more hated than they are today. As far as I know, the homocides are not attributed to other gays in this article. I assume this is just an oversight by Conservapedia, and not any unethical twisting of the details to support their ideology.

Homicide in homosexual victims: a study of 67 cases from the Broward County, Florida, Medical Examiner's office (1982-1992), with special emphasis on "overkill", Bell MD, Vila RI, Am J Forensic Med Pathol. 1996 Mar;17(1):65-9.

2. This one is an article by a former Bronx homocide detective or something. No idea of his expertise in sociology, so I'm pretty doubtful when his first line is, "homosexual homocides are fairly common..." Although, no amount of expertise in sociology would matter when he made that statement, since he made that without any statistics or homocide rate numbers. We are just supposed to take his very reliable word for it. One of his most recent writings is called, State Sponsored Torture in Rome: A Forensic Inquiry and Medicolegal Analysis of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. That fairly vague judgement is the sole basis for Conservapedia's claim that homosexual homocide is common.

Homosexual Serial Murder Investigation By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S. Former Commander, Bronx Homicide, NYPD

3. One is a five page article from some people in India, which has three short paragraphs on the subject. They claim that homosexual homocides are quite common, which they support with Conservapedia source#3 from 1993, which means this source is no more than a way to appear to have more sources than they really do. The authors introduce no new information nor propose new hypotheses. The article itself is fairly redundant with the authors merely repeating points from their sources, all of which were written between 1968-1993, which is peculiar since this article was published in 2005.

SEX RELATED HOMICIDES AND OFFENDERS -A MEDICO-LEGALISTS VIEW, Dr. Harnam Singh, Dr. Luv Sharma, Dr. S.K.Dhattarwal, Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine (sounds reputable, huh?), 2005 ; 27 (3). ISSN 0971 -0973

4. I cannot find any information on this source. However, it seems that it is similar to the previous sources in that it makes claims with few or no facts to support them. It was written in 1977, and most research into "When Gays Attack" is already low, with all the previous sources appearing after 1977. So I can't say for sure, but I think this source is crap.

Tedeschi CG, Eckert W, Tedeschi LG, eds. Forensic medicine; vol 2. Philadelphia: WB Saunders, 1977:962

5. This source I can't find information on either, but I know for a fact that any attention paid to "When Gays Attack" was very low and seems to be made in passing, again making it a very questionable source. A particular quote from the book is copied in the so-called article, "In addition, quite a number of fatal altercations arise because a heterosexual man becomes violent when importuned by a homosexual." I can't see how this would be a criticism of gays, since it is clearly mentioning heterosexuals committing the crime, unless they mean to explain how the victims are to blame because of their ability to elicit violent reactions from seemingly insecure heterosexuals. [See "Victim Blaming" and "Internalized Homophobia"]

Knight's Forensic Pathology',(3rd Ed) Saukko P. and B. Knight (2004) Arnold Publishers, London, page 428-429

6. The last source is only used to put forth the claim that while gays might be killed by gay bashers, they are more likely to be killed by other gays. I actually believe this claim, however it is meaningless. 94 percent of blacks are killed by other blacks. 84 percent of whites are killed by other whites. The gay male community is also a community, connected to but also separate from the lesbian community. Isn't a fact that when you have such types of communities, any murders are likely to be committed by someone else in the community? I am fairly sure that many murder victims likely knew their murderer, like rape victims, and this applies here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers by Michael Newton, page 103

If you think I did a good job, just think how well we could trash Conservapedia if we used reality to do it. Reality is on our side, and it's the best weapon against delusion. Chatikh (talk) 03:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What's "Conservapedia"? Okay, I see what you're saying here, and I have a suggestion for you. Instrad of worrying about some marginal blog, why not take your obvious interest in and knowledge of how homophobes misuse evidence/argue poorly and incorporate some of it into appropriate articles here without the focus on CP? The issue is, after all, way bigger than Schlafly. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 03:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * <font color=00BB77 face="Tempus Sans ITC"> Sam   Tally-ho!  03:55, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Walking upright and dressing ourselves without injury is enough to show we're smarter and better than CP. It's not exactly a high bar. --Kels (talk) 03:57, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Here I was thinking we already had a CP space response to the article. If nothing else, you have a good start, and as much as ToP may not like it, responding to CP was literally the reason the site was founded.--Just relax, and stay funny (talk) 06:04, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

In copyright terms, our side-by-side articles usually quote up to and including 100% of the text used - but our use is pretty damn clearly fair use for purposes of criticism in the public interest. So yeah, we can do this sort of thing fine - David Gerard (talk) 12:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've just restored Conservapedia:Summa Homosexualita, which was deleted amidst a CP-space deletion spree earlier this year. Feel free to add to & update it, but I would advise against attempting any side by side, since (as our article points out) CP's homosexuality article is dissertation-length (currently over 18,000 words, excluding footnotes).  Also be aware that Conservapedia-space articles are low priority, and that what you write will probably get few readers, so don't waste too much time & energy on it.  13:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I just now posted to the OP's talk, telling her about the sbs templates. Why are we trying to discourage people that want to do what we wanted to do years ago? Let them have at it, I say! 14:16, 27 December 2012 (UTC) C ® ackeЯ
 * "Why are we trying to discourage people..." cause 1) it focuses attention on a dead site, 2) this site was NOT founded to attack cp, but to attack stupid, anti-scientific, non rational idiots EVERYWHERE. 3) few people out-side of our little circle care or even know CP exists any more, but as theory of practic said, they do know that Focus on the Family exists, they know that Million Moms or whatever exist, that various political-religious PACs exist which are all actively involved in trying to take away the few rights gays have won, and prevent new rights.  Why spend your energies proving that something like CP - which clearly IS a pathatic site - is pathatic, when you can prove that the entire movement is pathatic. [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  She was a venus demilo in her sister's jeans  15:18, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ^Good post. 15:48, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Good points all. But in doing so we limit our base...let folks do what they want to do, learning how to use the tools that are laying around. Later when they've reached (y)our maturity level they can eschew CP edits themselves. Baby steps, sometimes. 16:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC) C ® ackeЯ
 * I'm not saying the guy should not do a CP takedown and that all such edits would be summarily undone and get him sent to the Coop. I just wanted to suggest that if your pet cause is getting at the logical fallacies and poor reasoning that support homophobia, limiting your target to a marginal blog might not be the best use of your time/the resources we offer. Think big. Theory of Practice "Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made." 16:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * . Although CP and this site are probably forever linked (Until CP finishes it's slow death and vanishes into obscurity) Naca (talk) 12:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * One more thing and then I'm done: I suspect a lot of our editors are not yet of college age. Critical thinking skills in these folk are young and tender and need large slow moving targets to hone these skills upon. As we have learned earlier this year: anything that we don't like later we can always simply delete. Not everyone comes to us whole and complete.
 * Dissuading people from doing what they've proposed to further a factional agenda limits the good and educational aspect of this wiki. C ® ackeЯ 12:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, nobody's telling Chatikh or anyone else that they can't or shouldn't write about CP's homosexuality articles, but it only seems fair to make him/her aware that it's unlikely to get the level of community interest he/she is looking for. A side-by-side or point-or-point refutation of one of the longest & wackiest articles on a wiki anywhere is a pretty huge undertaking, and there probably aren't going to be many volunteering to help, & not that many readers either.  This is me speaking as someone who spent a lot of time working on CP-space articles in my early days at RW, only to see them get little interest from other contributors, fall out of date, and eventually get deleted.  On the other hand WIGO:CP and its talk page still get a fair number of readers & contributors, so Chatikh's time might be better spent there.   13:32, 28 December 2012 (UTC)