Talk:National Rally

Not far right
The Front National is a national conservative right wing populist party. Academic literature now acknowledges it is no longer ultra/far right because of how the party was modernized introducing more moderate populist policies by Marine le Pen. They're similar to how the Swedish Democrats modernized. This is something the British National Party started, but failed to accomplish under Nick Griffin.PS2 (talk) 22:35, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you actually provide some of that "academic literature" from a reputable source and why that should override their own self definition of being a nationalist conservative party? -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 14:25, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Daily Telegraph calls the FN "far right", as does CBC (Canada), BBC, IB Times, and The Atlantic. So I don't think it's very important what "academic literature" says. Annquin (talk) 15:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

"The Front national’s populist turn under Marine Le Pen represents a fundamental turning point in the history of the Front national." "With more than 6.4 million votes in the first round of the 2012 French presidential election, Marine Le Pen not only celebrated a historic success, she also established herself as a major factor in French politics. This was, as the analysis presented above suggests, largely the result of Marine Le Pen’s strategy of dédiabolisation. This strategy consisted, first, of ridding the party of the remnants of the extreme-right tendencies that in the past had dominated the Front national; second, of abandoning much of the ideological baggage – and here particularly anti-Semitism and blatant racism – which in the past had made the Front national a political pariah; and thirdly, and most importantly, of developing a comprehensive, coherent populist program that allowed Marine Le Pen to market herself as a candidate to be taken seriously. With success." "And the Front national might once again be seen as the master case of radical right-wing populism in Western Europe." http://www.recode.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Final-RECODE-30-Hans-Georg-Betz_Final_fin.pdf PS2 (talk) 17:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Did, did you actually read this paper? Right off the bat one 19 page paper doesn't make literature.  This is a nearly 2 year old paper from a single academic from an obscure group who's grant ended in November 2014.  It also directly states they are no longer the standard bearer, attempting to become more center right, which has had some success at that time and is likely not to stay.  I completely agree with that but that's not what you presented.  You don't need to be the standard bearer to still be part of a group any more than you need to be Fred Phelps in order to be extremely violently homophobic.  These aren't Boolean categories.  -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 18:36, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It says they dropped the anti-Semitic baggage and have changed to a populist party. Of course no one denies they are still right wing. But these right wing populist parties (e.g. Front National, Swedish Democrats, True Finns, Alternative for Germany, United Kingdom Independence Party) today are not far/extreme right. The problem with labelling them as far right is these parties are not in the same category as Golden Dawn, National Democratic Party of Germany or the British National Party etc.PS2 (talk) 02:42, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You forgot the PEGIDA and their *IDA offshits offshots.--Kugelschreiber (talk) (mail) (block) 12:27, 5 May 2016 (UTC) 12:27, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * That's still the forecast from a single paper by a single person done during the last few months of that research centers life. Honestly, how do you not get this?  Do I need to make it in 32 point font?  -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 13:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There are plenty more papers saying the same thing. https://ecpr.eu/Filestore/PaperProposal/6a3d620c-7826-4eec-8cb8-e9333892ef45.pdf "Through an analysis of party documents and the secondary literature, I first highlight that Marine Le Pen has changed the FN on three fronts: (1) she has given the party a presentable outlook, (2) she has rendered the party more populist and (3) she has succeeded in better packaging the party’s leitmotif immigration." You need to explain how a party can still be far right when it has modified its policies and appeal to the extent now large % of ethnic minorities and LGBT vote for the Front National -

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-frances-gay-vote/ http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-over-the-muslim-vote/ http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/205670/why-are-so-many-french-jews-voting-for-front-natio/PS2 (talk) 14:02, 5 May 2016 (UTC)


 * PS2, why did you make a new account instead of using your old username, Krom? Your userpage says you retired but you're back. RaiderFan (talk) 06:50, 7 May 2016 (UTC)