Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive98

2009.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Main_Page#Future_web_traffic_growth_of_Conservapedia "Here is the latest Alexa data of Conservapedia's web traffic and it appears as if Conservapedia has had a significant increase in web traffic since August of 2009:"

Typo, or the ability to see into the future; you decide. --140.184.40.134 01:22, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Diff for the above Frohlich 01:31, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Assuming it was a typo, and he meant 2008, well, firstly, the categorisation of the web traffic being a 'significant increase' since August is debateable. Secondly, if you simply click on the 'max' button at the top, to get a wider picture, the current figures are actually merely towards the higher end of the range that CP bounces about in anyway.  Could this be first known attempt to 'quotemine' a GRAPH? Zmidponk 15:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah it is up from 3 months ago, when we had our boycott. WE WIN !!!!1111!!One thousand, one hundred and eleventy!1111!!!! - User   21:25, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Possibly worth another boycott to see?  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Rivendell
Seriously, is this the biggest deal Ed could find? I went and found a copy of the text, and it looks like there was just an honest mistake on Tolkiendil's part, since Lothlorien is called a city frequently, and the actual size of Rivendell really doesn't seem to be referred to anywhere. Did Tolk argue the point with Ed, or is he just latching onto any little error to paint him as History's Greatest Monstertm? --Kels 10:20, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Lothlorien is way on the other side of the Misty Mountains. My impression is that it is much more populous than Rivendell, which might be the size of a single palace. --Uncle Ed bug me 16:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Any chance of being honest for once and answering the question, Ed? Is it an honest mistake on the guy's part, or do you have evidence that this was malicious vandalism done in order to sabotage the Tolkien articles? --Kels 17:06, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * In the Hobbit, it is referred to as "the last homely house." --CPAdmin1 11:06, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, far as I can see, it says "the last homely house" is in Rivendell, but it doesn't say whether anything else is there or not. I don't think it says Elrond's place is the only structure there, although it could very well be.   --Kels 11:14, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Tolkiendil likely assumed there was more than one house in Rivendell. There were alot of elves living in Rivendell other than Elrond and family. More likely its more a city in terms of its facilities and demographics than in its buildings. Ed's really nitpicking here. EternalCritic 11:16, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Elrond's house is called The Last Homely House (possibly nicknamed by the Hobbits who visited), which is one of the larger/largest structure(s) in Rivendell. It is not by any means the only house. There's also guest houses (where do you think the Fellowship and their respective cohorts slept?), and a notable other Elf named Glorfindel. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]Norseman  Cyser Melomel  12:16, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think of Rivendell as mostly a waystation and military outpost. At any rate, it was big enough to withstand several year-long sieges, so... -- 12:25, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wikipedia and even LOTR Wiki doesn't say explicitly so I doubt CP should concern itself too much. But Ed is always keen to learn...  A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 14:28, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * It all fits TK's MO of driving out any editor who isn't a hard-right fundamentalist Christian young Earth creationist. I don't know why Ed is doing TK's bidding, but it's abundantly clear that that's what's happening. JazzMan 14:38, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Are you referring to this diff, or did Ed explicitly accuse Tolkiendil of writing "city" instead of "residence" (WTF?) as an act of vandalism? ...At any rate, Rivendell is certainly presented as at least a large township in the films, and I don't remember feeling like that was a jarring discrepancy with the book. --Marty 03:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, that's exactly what he's saying. When BRichten says Tolk wasn't vandalizing, Ed points to the Rivendell thing as "proof", but it comes off as "he knew more about LotR than me, and I was jealous" sort of pique. --Kels 09:50, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * BRichtigen took it to Desk/Abuse, so it will be ignored on another place, too. --LArron 11:49, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Pedantry Corner

 * Time to bring out my inner geek... Rivendell was the 'last homely house' of the Noldori elves from beyond the sea, called so because Elrond was descendant from Gil-Galad, a famous Noldor king. Lothlorien is founded by similar people. Although Tolkien doesn't go into detail about the place, we can assume from its participation in various wars that it was something like a crusader castle in the middle east - small forces, yet deadly. Probably not many lived there, but those who did commanded great control over their immediate area. It certainly wasn't just some house which Elrond lived in. More like a small mountain town. MarcusCicero 14:16, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Geeky correction: Elrond Peredhel was not a descendant from Gil-galad, and no one will ever be, as the latter died childless. However, they are related through descending from Finwë, first High King of the Noldor. Lothlórien was founded by Nandor/Silvan Elves, who are of Telerin descent. As this it was not founded by the Noldor or 'a similar people', unless by that you meant the Elves in general. And the adjective is noldorin. 217.95.235.209 13:20, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * One thing is sure: Ed Poor doesn't like questions about the block of Tolkiendil: Stop wasting my time and a nice 90/10 block...
 * --LArron 10:36, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Apparently Ed is physically incapable of not lying. Note that although he claims he never called Tolk a vandal, he blocked BRichten for "defending a vandal" on the 13th, namely Tolk himself.  Not only is he a liar, he's a clumsy liar. --Kels 10:51, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Kotomi
What's up with her? She seems to be generally respectful and thoughtful, but I haven't seen many of her edits outside her subject areas. Is she as straightforwardly nice as she seems? dream ing Hail Eris! 10:22, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yes Bjones 10:31, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Far as I can see, yeah. I get a bit of a quiver at her Japanese stuff, but it's probably just a reflex from having been exposed to Fangirl Japanese too much. --Kels 10:33, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * So I'm not the only one. Upon seeing her write "Kami-san" I knew I wanted to see her burn. Publius 10:40, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I can sympathize Kels. EternalCritic 10:55, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I've never seen her say anything I didn't like - she's even nicer than Dinsdale and HelpJazz.--Kriss AkabusiAAAAWOOOOGAAAR!!1 12:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I am sorry for that, Kels, Publius and EternalCritic - it is just that some things are better to say that way. Kami-sama is God to us and always will be and I use mina-sama because it is more respectful to them than just saying 'everybody'. I will try to be more careful though. And a belated thank you to everyone for being kind (I hope it is ok, SpinyNorman said I would be ok here). --TokyoRose 11:17, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Good for you for standing up to everyone. Ed's little reply almost made me hurl, though :)- 11:20, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Offense wasn't intended. There will always be problems when Internet users don't understand the culture of another user. People who know how to be polite in their own culture will make mistakes in other cultures. Proxima Centauri 12:48, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * (Don't EC me, bro!) Oh, not your fault, and nothing wrong with you. It's more a case that I've been exposed to way too many anglos trying to mimic that sort of language, and generally doing it really badly and self-consciously.
 * Back to your own post over there, I'm amused that RickD thinks the admins are just peachy keen and that they're following the "Great Commandment". Which is funny, since not only doesn't there seem to be a whole lot of love for anyone but themselves going on, but CP's own article on the "Great Commandment" is awfully fuzzy on what said commandment actually is.  I had to leave the "christian friendly" CP and go to the Great Satan WP for a clear answer.  And that's just sad. --Kels 11:22, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * It's just a symbol of CP's EPIC FAIL. It's not for nice people of conservative persuasions; it's for blinded ideologues who want to spew about gays, "liberals," etc.- 11:28, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Tokyorose-san: As I told you moments before I was banned for 5 years, you are perhaps the person over there i respect most. The second most just got banned and deleted a day ago. As far as my sumpathizing over fangirls. I went to High School with some crazy otaku-ko. Its rampant use of the word "kawai" and "sugoi" etc that drive me nuts. EternalCritic 11:35, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Hi Rose. It's really nice to see people being respectful at CP, although sadly rare. Good luck! dream ing Hail Eris! 11:32, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I’d guess she’s been reading this. That’s made her question if she should be accepting what Aschlafly etc do.  See this. Proxima Centauri 11:39, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Seeing as how my comments are directed against a respectful person, for once, I should explain. Throwing in Japanese terms into English speech is not cute, nor endearing (I realize by stating this on the internet, I place myself against majority opinion).  It is the bastion of sad, white teenagers.  If you are saying something not easily translated, fine.  That's interesting and informative.  But mina-sama? I'm afraid that if you have to explain that something is more respectful, it simply isn't.  It leaves those of us who have an understanding of japanese going "Why doesn't she just say everyone?" Publius 12:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Wow - so many comments. Let me start from the top. Thank you Caius! I must confess I have read it a few times and I am honestly not sure if he agreeing with me, or mocking me. I also found Rick's reply...odd, but then I can not expect everybody to think as I do... even the 'little people' :). and Kels, I share your pain - otaku (and especially fangirls) are bad - a millions times more so in Japan!) and there are sadly many cases on CP where people do not come close to practicing what they preach.
 * Thank you too, Dream! Proxima - I have seen the article (and I must confess I like it - thank you - I seem to have made a good impression!) but I have been reading here long before then (I think that is all that is safe to say for now. Publius - again, I can only apologise, and promise I will not do it here. As for 'mina-sama' I know, it is obscure, but there was no way I could think out in English to express my respect for the editors over there - "everyone" did not 'cut it' so to speak . Thank you all for making me feel welcome. --TokyoRose 12:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Truth is, it's commendable that you're joining Jazz, LowKey, and others in taking a noble stand. Unfortunately, I don't see it going anywhere in the end.  People like Ed, TK, Bugler, and RodWeathers quite obviously don't have the best interests of the site at heart, and both have power to act how they want as well as encourage others with power to act as they do.  The only one who could do anything about it is Andy himself.  He really is the sole bottleneck, and the one who either lets it stand, or tears it down.  And as we've seen, he's not been providing any leadership at all, and giving tacit approval (and sometimes outright approval) to the worst of them.  So unless there's some major change in his attitude, no change will occur.  It's sad, and frustrating, and certainly a tragedy for anyone who's put a lot of honest effort into the project.  But it's the reality that must be dealt with. --Kels 12:36, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * The problem is, what are the "best interests of the site"? We all know, as this site contains the dark annals of CP's past, that countless well-intentioned Christians have done their best at CP, become disillusioned, been ignored, and have left with a cry for improvement.  Of course, nothing ever improves.  This is because CP is not a wiki for Christians.  It is a wiki for ultra-right-wing paranoid Christians.  The bullying, hypocrisy, and indeed parody are part and parcel.  If you expect you can change things, you are wrong, and at the wrong place.  The best interests of the site, so far as Andy is concerned, are purging all non-ideologically-pure thought and users. This will not change, no matter how many manifestos reasonable people post. Publius 12:54, 13 December 2008 (EST)

You could try looking for a Christian wiki that suits you better. These vary. Some are good some aren’t. Christianity Knowledge Base tolerates a range of different Christian viewpoints. Japan Wiki may suit you. I don’t know anything about it. You can adopt this wiki and revive it. Proxima Centauri 13:02, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Bugler responds. He branded you as someone who is no better than "us", Kotomi. 新しい家にようこそ！ Norseman  Cyser Melomel  15:35, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yup, definitely a parodist. --Kels 15:48, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Let's just summarize: "We are in a conflict for our very survival". "Think of what we're sacrificing in this fight." "I'm not in it for the power, but for the cause." "Being compared to a fascist insults me." "Your collaboration with the enemy makes you suspect."
 * Simply a classic. -- 15:50, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * A masterpiece designed to stitch up Kotomi and prod another useful editor in the direction of the exit. There's only one parodist I know of who's this good.  Lily Ta, wack! 15:53, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Needs moar Churchill. If you're reading, B, this one's for free as long as you apologise to PJR once it's all over: "'...when we see the originality of malice, the ingenuity of aggression, which our enemy displays, we may certainly prepare ourselves for every kind of novel stratagem and every kind of brutal and treacherous manoeuvre.'"--Robledo 19:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Sorry again - I ran out of airtime last night. I have just replied to Bugler - he responded almost word for word as I expected he would - and I have called him on that. He (and TK) clearly have no indication on improving matters and are only there to subvert things. I also agree with the comment that Andy needs to be more assertive, but that said I do not think he is that oblivious to what goes on there (for example, I have spoken to Andy exactly once - ironically to ask for edit rights the day before one of the sock drawer ran riot on a blocking spree - yet he was obviously aware of me enough to promote me. Hopefully if more voices are raised from those he seems to trust, then action might happen.
 * I feel my days there are probably numbered now anyway - I have become "the enemy". Bugler has his knife out for me. If he is really Auld Nick and he reads this, please be gentle when you bring the axe down? That said, I am not giving up just yet.
 * As for another wiki? Well I do write on ja:wp (but that is very territorial and full of otaku too). CP gives me the chance to edit and practice my English (and I get to be territorial too!) and it could be a better project if certain people are removed from it. In the meantime, I can handle Bugler - at least we are on equal footing and I am itching to drop the hammer on him - he has been warned here and there. --TokyoRose 05:41, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Zomg, ah feel as if ah've gotten tha vapuhs! /swoon
 * Bugler is already on you. Notice how he reads this site regularly (well, obviously). He provokes you into responding in such a way that when you respond, he's the victim and cries and cries. It fills Recent Changes, and other sysops/admins will see it and join in... most likely against you. Poor little Bugler was only keeping CP's best interests at heart. Your entire speech was more directed not at the blocks that were happening, but the blocks that weren't, causing all the dissent among blocking right users to spill out everywhere. Bugler is doing his best to turn it into an individual case (against himself) to discredit all you've said. At least your words got to me, right here... *points at his heart* ♥♥♥♥♥ :D [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]Norseman  Cyser Melomel  07:32, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * *blush* Thank you Norseman (I am copy/pasting those hearts ♥ thank you). I have specifically called him on the playing the victim bit and I know he will read this and hopefully he will know that somebody at least has seen through his little plan. Not that it will help. I suppose we need at least one enemy in our lives to make it interesting. Honestly though, is he really a parodist, or am I exceeding my welcome by asking that? --TokyoRose 07:44, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * No one really seems to know, or at least they're pretty good at keeping it to themselves. Either way, he's doing a good job at being an annoying little twit. Just don't let him drag you down to his level, and you'll probably be fine. -- 08:03, 14 December 2008 (EST)

I'm always impressed by Bugler's way with words: here, he calls Katami a goose, without doing so, of course. And there is the whole victim routine, he does so well... --LArron 17:55, 14 December 2008 (EST)

I think he is a parodist. He looks like a fool for Jesus. Then he shows that he is more intelligent than he looks. Certainly that's deceitful. You are right Kotumi, most wikis have problems. The ones that don't have problems are about uninteresting subjects. You have to live with some problems. Asking if Bugler is a parodist or not is certainly OK here. We try hard to follow ther scientific method. We can'e easily turn against somebody for asking the wrong question. Proxima Centauri 05:13, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * And along comes Ed, to pretend to reprimand the actual offender. "Be nice or maybe I'll do something that you can undo in 15 seconds".  Yeah, be nice if you could have done something a long freakin' time ago, Ed instead of protecting him, but we already knew your loyalties do not lie with productive editors. --Kels 18:06, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * I see Kotomi & Bugler have kissed and made up- which is a phase that will probably have Norseman in tears. --PsyGremlinWhut? 07:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Gah! My heart! Pains in thy chest hath reminded me of loneliness. :( [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]Norseman  Cyser Melomel  09:45, 17 December 2008 (EST)

TK uses Schlafly Statistics
No, TK, it doesn't. (I won't even bother to question your completely unprovable "95%".) It just shows that these people left in disgust. Silence after abuse isn't evidence that the abuse was justified. It just shows resignation. People will see what assholes are in power (especially when they watch how the Abuse Helpdesk is being handled and how everybody who gives a damn about unfair blocks will simply be blocked, too), and they will realize that they wasted their time trying to improve CP. --Sid 18:04, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * "Given the fact that perhaps 95% of those being blocked never write in to protest or ask reconsideration, pretty much shows we have gotten pretty good at knowing when and who to block."
 * Actually I bet he's right about the 95% number. Karajou probably blocks about 95% of all blocked, and he doesn't have email enabled. Tada! No complaints. Also, a couple weeks ago I got 3 or 4 emails from people who were blocked by Ed (maybe closer to 5 or 6 actually) just over the course of a week and a half, because Ed wasn't responding to their email. Soooooo TK's right. Probably only 5% of people who get blocked then email someone who will actually listen.
 * PS Terry, 5% is a pretty high margin of error. 1 out of every 20 blocks is contested? JazzMan 18:10, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * What proportion of users have email enabled before they get blocked? They don't realize they will need it.  The ban window says you can discuss the block with the blocking sysop or with any other administrator.  You click on the links given in the ban window.  You try to edit, you see the ban window again.  You give up in dispair.

By the way, to see the ban window in any wiki without being blocked The links shown that way work. For a blocked user they usually don't. The ban window here.
 * 1) Click on edit from any editable page.
 * 2) Type in, I usually clear out the text in the page first.
 * 3) Click on, "Show preview". If you click save this will be considered vandalism and you could see the ban window for real.

Proxima Centauri 02:41, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * You can enable email after you are blocked if you want to. Anyway, isn't the main point that 95% (probably more like 99%) of blocked users on CP are the same 20 or people? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:58, 15 December 2008 (EST)

it's happened again....
I saw this "mystery" essay and thought--"ah, another bit of over-the-top parody. How long 'til it gets deleted?" Nope...an ASchlafly original....PFoster 15:39, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * I wonder if this is how Andy (and CPalmer, who wrote nearly half of it) really thinks, or if it's just random crap to continue muddying the waters. Clearly, he's getting more and more into that "everyone who's not like me isn't human" mode, and if he really does believe this, then it's time for the men in the white coats. --Kels 15:44, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Hurray Andy is going to try and do math again! Get ready to take screen shots of the fun everybody :) --BoredCPer 16:06, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Articles like that are just extra special fun, since they're total parodist magnets. Who else would rush in, eager to make it so much better like that?  Andy, of course, sees them all as loyal conservatives, who agree with him unlike traitorous liberal sympathizers like PJR and, it would seem, JessicaT.  The insanity...it's spreading...must protect precious bodily fluids... --Kels 16:20, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * This has got too much like watching a car crash. I'm no psychiatrist but I would put money on Andy now being clinically insane.  I can't watch.  It's gone beyond funny fundy idiocy.  This is a human being collapsing before our very eyes.  For pity's sake Benjamin, Jessica, PJR, this is now a real human tragedy.  Don't think that you made your points and can leave it at that.  And Buggers, come on man!  As much as Andy is a piece of excrement he doesn't deserve to lose his mind. If you, Rod and TK keep pushing it this man will have a breakdown.  --Toffeeman 17:21, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Do you mean to suggest that he's getting crazier!? I'd like to see some statistical proof of that, as 93% of claims of breakdowns are 78% exaggeration and 22% hyperbole. Publius 17:33, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Sadly, I'm serious. Can anyone with knowledge of psychiatry reassure me that Andy is just a vile, arrogant yet self-loathing, inadequate, selfish, little piece of shit: a pustule on the face of humanity, a "grade A" wanker who deserves far more than he's ever going to get?  Or should we call the real (as opposed to "mentioned for effect") men (or women) in white (or other colour) coats? (and yes, Buggers, I did add three to the "mystery" and I am feeling guilty).  --Toffeeman 17:50, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Andy's always been a bit of a nut, but his nuttiness was mostly to do with biblical inerrancy than anything. Sure, he shills for a bunch of quacks, but that's work and he doesn't necessarily have to be a True Believer or anything.  Biased about homeschooling, no problem.  Even back here, he at least was acknowledging that his wrong-headed opponents on the left (and centre, and most of the right) were at least human.  He's pretty much given up on that by now. --Kels 17:56, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * The more I see the more I wonder whether he is really a complete parodist, who'll whip off his cloak one day and confound TK, Bugler and the rest. Surely no-one with an ounce of seriousness could (a) tolerate and applaud their actions and (b) come out with crap like this. Fretfulporpentine 18:11, 13 December 2008 (EST)

(Unindent) I was actually thinking about this the other day.... I am a Pysch major after all (not that my training is anywhere near a level where I would offer major therapy or anything) and I think Andy is fighting a very hard battle inside his own head. He's not the only one though. Think of it this way, he was born under the rule of Phyllis, and was raised with the idea that biblical conservativism is the best way to live. But look at the last couple of presidents in this country. Reagan and Bush I screwed millions of people over royally. They enlarged the gap between rich and poor, they sat back and did almost nothing while the AIDS crisis nearly destroyed black america, Gang wars erupted under their watch, to the point where several major cities (LA, Chicago and NY to name a few) were practically paralyzed in fear and on top of it all, the people at the top just looted the whole country. Then Clinton takes over and things start to improve over the next eight years. Now, a lot of that stuff can be explained away as conincidence or that Bush and Reagan laid the groundwork, and you'd have an interesting argument, but then GW Bush comes in and everything goes straight back to hell. Andy is also seeing the allignment of religion break apart. Churches are foregoing issues like Gay rights and Abortion to concentrate on Climate Change and Helping the poor. I think Andy has finally reached a point where he can no longer ignore the fact that the positions he was raised on are flat out false and it hurts. Throw in that he's seeing a former classmate, who lived the "liberal" lifestyle now ascending to the highest position in Government while he's stuck with a fourth rate Wiki that everybody treats as a laughingstock (and he has to know that) As a result of all of this, he's driving himself deeper and deeper into his Conservative shell as a reflective defense until things work out. I think we're either going to see a brand new Andy reemerge from this or he's going to snap once and for all........ Nib High School Football RULES!!!! <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  19:18, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Eh, that's probably reaching too far. For one, Andy just rationalizes everything away and blames it on liberals, so there's no way that he could ever think that any problems are caused by conservatism. I just don't see him having a crisis of conscience. Additionally, many more people than just Andy wouls disagree with your analysys of good vs bad and liberal vs conservative -- for one thing, some of the things that you count as failures, conservatives count as triumphs, or disagree are happening at all. I'm not thinking about anything specific here, but you are starting with an entirely different premise system here. JazzMan 19:53, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * Which is why this addition to the George W. Bush article stood for so long despite being lampooned in the L.A. Times article.  <font color=Blue>Генгис    04:42, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * I remember calling him on it, saying that it was my favourite bit of the whole article (and wondering aloud how they managed to put their trousers on without killing themselves...) His response? Ah, your spelling of "favorite" gives you away. Not an American, and perhaps a Bush-hater? Why didn't you just say at the beginning that you dislike conservatives, if that's case??? Andy is my favouritest fuckhead by about eleventy million miles. --Robledo 07:19, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * STATISTICAL ANALYSIS!!!??!?!? Anyway, I thought the number 1 reason would be that liberals clearly aren't cool enough to be paleoconservative. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:54, 14 December 2008 (EST)

It's difficult to tell when we only see Andy's reactions over teh Internet and not face to face. Long standing Conservapedia watchers say Andy and Conservapedia are getting steadily further out of touch with reality. We can only guess the reason. It's possible that Andy is a parodist and a deep Liberal and totally sane. It could be Andy is finding it steadily harder to avoid doubting his Conservastive fundyism. There could be tensions in his family that we know nothing about. Perhaps there's an attractive gay man out there somewhere. Andy, just wishes he could..., feels gulty after every time..., won't admit to himself why he likes that man.

We know one thing. If teh Assfly loses his mind there'll be expensive psychiatrists to help bring him back to sanity. There are any number of crazy poor people in the United States. Some of them have to rely on soup kitchens and homeless shelters. The more Andy loses his mind the more Conservapedia shows up what's wrong with American Conservatism. Andy just might be making it easier to establish Universal Health Care in the United States. I care much more about issues like Health care for poor people in America than I care about Andy's possibly fragile mental health. The Unites States isn't my country but I still care more about millions of poor American people than I do about one selfish rich American.

I hope Andy stays crazy enough so Conservaedia gets to be a bigger laughing stock. I hope Andy doesn't get so crazy that Conservapedia breaks down completely or Momma brings in someone sane to manage it. Proxima Centauri 12:53, 14 December 2008 (EST) Proxima Centauri 12:38, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Rod's awesome new powers
So RW has gained image upload rights thanks to his "good work". It always struck me as perverse that CP hands out block rights like candy so that people can happily drive away new editors, yet restricts the tools that actually enable people to create and improve articles as a privilege. This is the reverse of virtually every other wiki. However, Rod gets a tip from Andy "Congratulations on obtaining upload privileges! Be sure not to upload anything copyrighted by others." A pity he never mentioned that to Joaquin when he was promoted.  Lily Ta, wack! 15:41, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Andy has said many times that people should block with impunity. Not in those words, but it's clear that he and many of the sysops don't really treat blocking as a hard punishment. JazzMan 15:54, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, a more recent example is Ed on Jessica's page, with "You have blocking rights. I hope you will use them liberally." Block early, block often, never admit you made a mistake.  That's blocking policy at CP. --Kels 15:58, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * And the only mistake to make is letting someone bring up the mistake of a wrongful block, so block them too before you make the mistake! Hiyaaaa! [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  16:01, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * "Dis iz turnink into vun of dose plans... Hyu know - de kind vere ve keel everybody dot notices dot ve's killin' people?"
 * That is such a great comic. --Gulik 23:33, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I was likewise stunned to see this. He hands out rights in the fashion opposite to common sense.  Block rights are most deadly in the hands of a vandal or parodist, upload rights less so, and edit rights least of all.  Congrats, you've been given clearance to fly the Space Shuttle.  We'll see if you're qualified to fly an ultralight in a few weeks' time. Publius 16:11, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think it's just the Conservative Seige Mentality in its purest form. "Liberals are bad.  So if, we block EVERYONE, no Liberals can get in!"  Is pretty much the 'thinking' here, I suspect.  Much more important to keep the bad out than to let the good in.--Gulik 23:33, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Oh, sweet Zeus, make it stop! Make it stop!
"Conservative principles are based on reason." I don't think LOL does it justice. REASON? Oh the humanity...Jimaginator 20:42, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * I think one good reason to be liberal would be "have read something written by one of the Schlaflys". That'd drive me away from the cause, that's for sure.  Although I must say, Andy's setting the conservatism bar pretty low here.  He just wants folks with low grades. --Kels 20:51, 13 December 2008 (EST)


 * In fairness, some conservative principles are based on reason. Others are based on preexisting beliefs and/or biases.  The same is true of any ideological makeup.  That being said, Andy's trying to make it sound as if only Conservative principles are borne from reason and all Conservative principles are born from reason, which naturally is utter crap.  Stile4aly 02:58, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Do we want to bring Conservapedia down? Alternatively do we hope Conservapedia will keep people laughing at the worst of Conservative thinking for years to come?  Conservapedia does such a good job of showing why Conservative ideas are self serving nonsense. Proxima Centauri 04:09, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * This is a good point- If CP continued on, and we drove people to it, what would be the effect? Would more people embrace the insanity, or would more people be laughing? Based upon some of what I hear out here sometimes in the U.S., I think the reaction of many would be "Where has CP been all my life? This is EXACTLY what I was looking for!" And that, dear friends scares the Gre'Thor out of me...Jimaginator 09:14, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's the problem, they're reflecting what people genuinely do think. It's just crystallised out as people being wrong on the internet. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Schlafly stats incarnate
This just makes me laugh. Does he even have any idea what he is typing? At least he admits they are "estimates." Though, that probably means for him "I may be off by 2%." --Shagie 20:56, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * I suspect Andy doesn't care what he's writing particularly. --Kels 20:58, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * How is it a statistical analysis if he just made the number up? I don't mind Andy's values and principals, I don't mind Andy's tendency to cronyism which has resulted in CP becoming a land baron of editors, I don't even mind the fact that Andy compulsively tries to denigrate my beliefs and values by claiming that I am immoral and that I probably would cause the down fall of society. What pisses me off is when tries to make his argument look impregnable by making up numbers on the fly and then defends like the mean shit instead of random crap he made up and he knows it. - User   21:16, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Hmmm...perhaps a companion article is called for..."Why do Conservapedians exist?" That could be fun and based in reality! Thinker 21:23, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Does anyone else admire the cognitive dissonance required to believe simultaneously that (a) When judging an objective scientific subject, it is entirely possible that the vast majority of scientists are honestly mistaken in their judging of the evidence, e.g., that evolution is a sufficient and necessary process to explain the diversity of life on Earth, and (b) That people who hold entirely subjective political opinions that are different from your own are simply wrong, and doing it from some bad or insane reason?


 * I just can't empathise with the Assfly at all. There's something going wrong in his head to produce these things he writes. I'm coming around to the idea he is simply mentally ill. This bizarre way that he sees the world, where everyone in jobs that society places some kind of esteem in, from doctors through to teachers, is a "liberal" and the enemy. It strikes me that he's dangerously paranoid. --JeevesMkII 00:39, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think you're approaching it from the wrong angle--you're assuming that Andy uses reason to TEST his beliefs, rather then as a means to find PROOF for them. Logic is a puny reed in the path of the battering-ram of Faith. --Gulik 01:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * MOAR statistics. 50% of what you learned in school was false--ScottA 17:36, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Wait, is Kendoll back now?
I thought he was going away, his mission to destroy atheism on the internets now completed? I was kind of hoping people might take the opportunity to muck out the Augean stables that are Ken's little corner of Conservapedia. --JeevesMkII 03:37, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * I find it hilarious that Ken's trying to deny that all those socks, all of which are definitely his, are totally different people. Yeah, Ken.  There's a groundswell of support, made up of people with identical styles all doing the same sort of spamming, all at the same time.  Never mind that you're the only one stupid enough to be out there actively promoting your unreadable articles.  Maybe you might get more credibility if you used your first name and last initial?  Just a thought. Image for those who missed it. --Kels 09:34, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * People are chasing him around THE ENTIRE INTERNET!  Brilliant, just brilliant.   Keep it up Ken, you're better than the movies.   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  15:34, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * All aboard the delusion express! Now he wants us to make an award to match the one he pushed through despite objections, presumably to go to the biggest scientific illiterate. --Kels 15:43, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * "...near godlike status..." hahahahahaha. Anyway, back to teh awesome awards.  At least if we did one the artwork wouldn't look like something a kindergartner drew on an etch-a-sketch!  Man, those are some ugly.  I ought to go on the chatzilla and scold Geoff. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * They truly are atrocious, especially when you look at GP's wiki page: "I hold certificates in Dreamweaver, Flash, Illustrator, and Photoshop, ". (By the way his Wikipedia page is quite amusing for this litttle gem: "In February 2007, I went to another wiki, Conservapedia. There I developed my "people skills" ..."; if his skills improved at CP it's heaven help anyone who met him before) Frohlich 23:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * You have to understand, in the sphere of the computing industry, certifications are a) A scheme devised by companies who make poor quality software to cash in on that fact, and b) A snare and delusion for people who can't get a decent job, and think that by getting a certificate they might have a chance. Its kind of like the lottery, a method of printing money off the backs of suckers. (Edited to say, actually there is one certification it is allowable to have: One from Cisco. Configuring Cisco routers is an arcane and wizardic art form that us non-initiates are barred from knowing the mysteries of. I believe it involves sealing yourself in the inner sanctum, drawing a pentagram and sacrificing half a dozen Long-eared jerboas)--JeevesMkII 23:18, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * The "vigilance" isn't so much "eternal paranoia", but rather like watching one's favorite sitcom every night. Kalliumtalk 10:33, 16 December 2008 (EST)

To answer Ken's Question yes, What do you think? - User   23:38, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I'd also like to award the:

Seriously, who names their kids Duane? It's a fast track to being some kind of ignorant yokel. --JeevesMkII 23:49, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * I swear, that pic of Gish makes my skin crawl. --Kels 23:55, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Posse
I see has undone Ed's block of HelpJazz which probably puts him on the "liberal" side of Bugler's fence. Of course HJ could have unblocked himself but Í doubt that he would have done that after being admonished by a sysop, unlike Bugler's dismissal of PJR. Which actually makes HelpJazz more conservative than Bugler. <font color=Blue>Генгис   04:49, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Consistency; worse comments are made by other users with HelpJazz's level of authority and no action is taken = Ed is a hypocrite; Bugler said worse and he took no action, so fuck him [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  05:38, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Is Creationism Junk science
Conservapedians can't see that it's Junk science. Proxima Centauri 08:41, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * lol. The See Also section has Astrology in it. I guess those little glints of light in the sky are ANGELLLLLS! [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  09:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wait, WE say that astrology is pseudo-science.Researcher 11:07, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Didn't realize the difference between astronomy and astrology. Oops. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  12:42, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Someone needs to sock up and alert Andy to this article - the claim about smoking will set his hair on fire. Andy HATES teh smokers, and will happily barge in and stomp all over this article for you. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  15:36, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I love that Cherry picking doesn't exist on a creationist wiki even though it's referenced from another page slating liberals :) Crundy 17:08, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Hmmm, I'd like to point out that junk science and pseudoscience are really two different things (their definition is pretty close, although their perspective is a tad off). Junk science is usually "poorly done" science, pseudoscience just "looks" or "sounds" like science while having no connection in methodology at all.  Or am I wrong? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:09, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's more or less my understanding as well. 140.190.254.15 10:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Moar like Andy Everyday
I see Bugler has added another arrow to his quiver: "(and it is 'its assumptions', not 'it's assumptions')" (from cp:Talk:Mystery:Why Do Non-Conservatives Exist?). The man is a master... and a complete tosser. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:48, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Who was this? I mean, countdown to blocky time. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 10:57, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah we are never going to see any response to that other then maybe a block --BoredCPer 11:46, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Range block
The CP vandals are out in force. I wnat to join them. I'm rangeblocked. It's so sad. Still a few thousand others with my Internet Service Provider are also rangeblocked. Some of them probably are gullible enough to believe Conservapedia. When they try to edit they will see the ban window. Then they won't want to stay there. Perhaps I should be pleased about that rangeblock. Proxima Centauri 11:19, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Teh latest Rangeblock 72.14.176.0/20. It's by TK this time. Proxima Centauri 16:05, 14 December 2008 (EST)

PhilipV and AlexanderM
'Apologising for drug use' doesn't necessarily mean 'admitting being/having been a drug user'. It could also mean 'being an apologist for drug use', a well-known Liberal position. Fretfulporpentine 12:54, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Is PhilipV a parodist, or just profoundly stupid? Publius 13:10, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * He's a parodist, and is run by The Holy Tuna.

JHarris
He was interested in here, and someone might care to email him. He sounds a little down. Fretfulporpentine 13:04, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * JHarris tried to write reasonable stuff here and here and here. He then removed content from his userpage and  talk page and got blocked. Proxima Centauri 13:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Conservapedia Recognition Awards Programme
Now that Andy is in favour of the scheme, would someone with a disposable spare sock like to suggest that there be parallel awards for male and female editors? Chivalry, you know. Fretfulporpentine 13:50, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Brilliant. :D --Gulik 13:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * For a guy in a big hurry to get out the door, he's been spending quite a long time making comments all over the place about these things. --Kels 14:21, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Ah, the old "Employee of the Month" scheme. Always a sure sign of a company in trouble. -- 14:23, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * It'll take more than that to overcome Andy's "all stick and no carrot" approach. --Kels 14:33, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, I'd normally side with the general idea (giving people at least token incentives so they feel a bit special and maybe don't leave), but the timing is wayyyyy off. People aren't leaving because they don't feel recognized. They're either blocked/banned for disagreeing with The Bugler Squad, or they leave because they realize that it's impossible to work in such an environment. Ken's suggestion might have made at least some sense a few months ago, but right now, it's just another tool to give handjobs to Bugler and Co. After all, with them being the only ones who can edit articles without fearing instant bannination and harassment, there is just no competition. --Sid 14:36, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Anyone would think they weren't happy with the lovely set of awards we gave them last month.--symuunWords! 15:06, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * That cheap shit DeanS stealing our designs and handing them out to his user like he made them. I noticed this time he just stole the barnstars from Wikipedia. - User   21:53, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'm a little surprised Bugler and RW haven't already volunteered to be on the judging committee. --Kels 15:08, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Has anyone noticed that 🇰🇪 is going out of the way to construct awards he thinks he is going to win? - User   21:53, 14 December 2008 (EST)

<-- Just what on earth does Geo.plrd think he's doing with the medal designs? Apart from the fact that they look like they've been cut out of colored paper by an eight-year old, to whom are they going to award a Conservapedia medal for, nursing (linked to but not yet uploaded, and in addition to and ) or ,  and , etc., etc.? <font color=Blue>Генгис   00:42, 15 December 2008 (EST) P.S. Sorry Geof, but if you're using Photoshop CS2 then you should be doing a lot better than that.
 * Geo has a fondness for the metals/ribbons. If you glance at his WP user page you will see the WP equiv.  Meh... whatever turns your crank Geoff. --Shagie 01:38, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * As I said above on a previous fill of gasoline, they look like a kindergartner did them with an etch-a-sketch. Embarrassing.  I have half a mind to go school him on teh chatzilla. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

RJJensen
This is in response to a comment made about Jensen halfway down the WIGO page. Please try to understand the procedures on other websites. Jensen wrote the article before it was approved and therefore moved to a different page by the editor in question. Clean case of 'trying to see the worst in people at all times'. Jensen is one of the few reasonable and respectable editors there. 86.45.222.9 14:35, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Maybe you/he/somebody should point this out on CP? When he claims he wrote an article, and the edit history disagrees with the claim, it's bound to look suspicious without additional information. Especially on a site where even the sysops merrily plagiarize from copyrighted sources and then claim that they wrote it. --Sid 14:41, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Eh, it takes two seconds to check it out on citizendium. The onus to prove plagiarism here lies on the person jumping to the wild conclusion, not the other way round. 86.45.222.9 15:56, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * We're so sorry Mr (Ms?) Anonymous BON. We'll try and work harder to not upset the plagiarizers in the future. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  16:16, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Chuck, are you channeling Schlafly there? Repeating an accusation after being proven wrong seems like something out of his playbook. Patrickr 16:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * The problem seems to be that the article has two separate article histories, one for the draft, and one for the finished article being copied into main space. If you don't already know about the draft thing (and it's not all that obvious) then it's easy to miss.  I missed it, myself. --Kels 16:30, 14 December 2008 (EST)

What are you on about? Admit when you are clearly wrong, especially about something serious like plagiarism. Thats a very serious charge to level on a historian. 86.45.222.9 16:21, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * I commented out the WiGO, since it looks like most of the draft is his. Although there's a phrase about the guy's wife I think may be someone else's, and someone else did the publication list, but those may be minor issues. --Kels 16:28, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Actually, I was just being sarcastic... I mean if it's so important to come over here just to defend Jensen's honor, why don't you contact him and tell him to stop throwing his reputation away at CP... Jeez, learn how to understand obvious sarcasm ya jackass. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  17:21, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Ah. That sarcasm was so biting and on target it went right over my head. Patrickr 18:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'll never understand this highbrow humour. --Kels 18:56, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Being charged with plagiarizing something to load it up on CP? Come on, what's that line from Apocalypse Now!?  "Charging people with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500"?  Jensen, by contributing your awesome article to CP you have forever diminished your "historian" credentials. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Is the Bible a myth TK?
TK asks, "I wonder, CPalmer and Andy, if ancillary to this, would be the myth, spread by atheists, that a 'Christian' can commit multiple, serial horrible deeds, like the Alaskan arson, ask forgiveness, and therefore escape all punishment. It is a persistent lie, oft repeated."

It’s in the Bible. Is TK implying that the Bible is a myth? Proxima Centauri 16:30, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * TK also said (to HelpJazz?) that it's bad to assume on CP. It's okay to blame Atheists though, apparently. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  18:35, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Mentally ill
I was wondering, there seems no doubt that Andy has a severe personality disorder, and I was wondering if anyone here is actually a qualified psychiatrist and could analyse some of Andy's behaviour to determine the exact issue? My money is on Narcissistic personality disorder Crundy 16:45, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Oh wait, actually I think it's Dissocial Personality Disorder. What do you think? Crundy 16:49, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I don't think posts on the internet are good enough material to analyse somebody's mental state. Seriously. Dude. Ajkgordon 16:54, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Not a full picture, no. But there must be a lot of hints over there. Crundy 17:10, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wouldn't have thought so. There's an agenda. Clouds the water. It's already been demonstrated that the Aschlafly on CP is not at all like the Mr Schlafly in reality. Ajkgordon 17:17, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I reckon that Andy, Ed Poor & Conservative are all fairly dysfunctional (in different ways & whether they are aware of it or not), but trying to diagnose them with specific conditions based on their online activities isn't a great idea, even as a joke. <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId [[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]]~ 17:25, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * I agree that Andy in real life is a completely different person from Andy on CP. Mostly because of the anonymous nature of the internet.  Most of the people that Andy is insulting are never gonna run into him in person and so, he can basically do whatever he wants.  As to your second point, except for an argument about the danger of using psychological disorders as degrading humor, there's not really too much of an issue issueing armchair diagnosis via online communications.  I think people's online actions are actually a much better indicator of your real feelings and thoughts. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  17:33, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * A psychiatrist would strongly disagree with you. Ajkgordon 18:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Lighten up. It's fun for all the family. Hell, there's probably even a board game in there somewhere. Diagnosis: ConservapediaTM - Can you unlock their Major Malfunction? --Robledo 19:32, 14 December 2008 (EST)

(unident)Armchair theorizing for sure but I think Crunchy's first suggestion fits best for the online behavior. Is the crippling lack of leadership he reveals in managing his own wiki also displayed in real life?--Neon 19:45, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Has anyone here met him in real life? Someone who posts on RW must live somewhere near him. Crundy 11:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think this kind of intellectual game is the same thing Andy pulls when he piles up "evidence" of liberalism being a psychiatric illness. As fun as it is to pull up psych disorders on Wikipedia and use them to diagnose your screwed up ex-girlfriend or boyfriend, there's reasons not to do this with Andy in a public forum:
 * By equating what you or I don't like about a person with mental illness, we add to the stigmatization of mental illness, even if we don't mean to do so. Mental health professionals have been trying to make progress in this arena- it's a big reason for undertreatment of mental disorders.
 * The information isn't there. While I think that Andy is anything but anonymous, you still can't get a good read on a person from text. Psychiatric evaluation involves observing emotional response, body language, etc.  Furthermore, often multiple interviews over time are required for a good diagnosis.
 * Displaying symptoms from the DSM-IV that are listed on WP doesn't necessarily mean you have a disorder. I would be surprised if everybody here, myself included, didn't have at least one trait accentuated in some disorder.
 * This is about the lowest form of argument imaginable.
 * I'm not any kind of mental health professional, but this is what I think. Corryundefined 14:01, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * I attribute it to John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. --Shagie 14:49, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I think the whole Schlafly family and the whole right wing of the American Republican Party is reacting to evidence that their views are wrong. I’ve seen election defeats in Britain and I guess some are willing to change. Others retreat into their beliefs, insist that the voters are wrong and use complex psychological mechanisms to stay in denial.

Roger seems as unreasonable as Andy. Phyllis Schlafly got from nowhere to being a prominent Republican politician. Her views were always a bit reactionary and extreme even for Republicans. She’s now over 80. She’s behind the times and can’t adapt. Her children must support her beliefs at least publicly or mother may leave her millions to their brothers. Are there any sisters? There’s the whole family competing for momma’s favours and for momma’s millions. That may make them unwilling to examine the case against momma’s beliefs publicly or privately.

Why is Andy the way he is? Part of it is because online and offline he spends too much time with people who reinforce his extreme views and doesn’t have to face alternatives the way he had to at college. I assume he had to face alternatives at college or he wouldn’t have got his degree. Proxima Centauri 14:31, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * PC: Yes, Roger is as odd as Andy - but he is also a very different person. Phyllis is not a politician, she's an activist.  The YEC stuff isn't from her, please learn this, she's a Catholic.  I would also like to see a reference for her "millions" - and more especially for Andy's alleged wealth.  I think he's just hanging in there in the middle class at best.  Lastly, and tiresomely, why do your posts never shed any new light on anything?  Sorry, that may seem rude, but I can predict posts are yours within four words, and the rest of the words are almost as parodiable as the schlafly quote generator. Please try harder. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:14, 16 December 2008 (EST)

You agree with me that Roger and Andrew Schlafly have similar crazy ideas though they are quite different people. It looks like some family thing that makes them have similar way out beliefs. If the family isn't wealthy where does the money come from to run Conservapedia? Proxima Centauri 12:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * They only overlap in a few specific areas, mostly related to YEC. They also disagree in many areas.  CP probably costs 2-300 a month to run, well within the reach of a middle-class household budget I would think.  Is there any evidence 1. that Phyllis is a millionaire, and that 2. Andy's wealth/income is anywhere higher than perhaps the upper middle class? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:12, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Kendoll and "likely"
For me, this has been a huge insight into Kendoll's personality. I thought I was familiar with the word 'likely,' but now I've had a chance to see exactly what Kendoll thinks it means. As far as I've been able to tell, there aren't many people in favor of a monthly award and no one is in favor of naming it after this Duane Gish fellow, but it's likely that Duane Gish will soon have an Conservapedia Award named in his honor! Sandman 17:03, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Also note that he insisted on Gish over the guy from the Scopes trial, then turns around and tells BrianCo that he wants awards to be named after historical figures and not contemporary ones. What a dope. --Kels 17:08, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Gee, just a hunch, but is Kenny trying to promote Gish so Gish will promote his article(s)? [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  18:39, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Ken doesn't seem to realize we don't give a damn about a lying shill like Gish. Hey Ken, does Gish still believe in fire-breathing dinosaurs? --Kels 19:35, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * About the promotion hunch: Considered it myself since it fits into the Search Engine Optimization and external pimping theme he has going on. But here's another thought: Wasn't one of the keys to SEO success having tons of wikilinks pointing at the article? Ponder, ponder. (Of course, the two theories aren't mutually exclusive!) --Sid 20:10, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Seriously Ken, take your meds. --Kels 20:45, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah! Leave JessicaT alone with your smooth-talking! She's mine! [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  22:59, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Damn, Ken can't write even when it's not one of his pet articles. How many times can you say Wikipedia in one edit?  Way too freakin' many! --Kels 23:51, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * No kidding, and does he really think that using some variant of the phrase "in regards to" or "regarding" makes him seem smarter? I mean really, he writes at the level of a twelve year old.  For real though Ken, here's some help: "In his article <S>entitled Wikipedia lies, slander continue, journalist Joseph Farah wrotestated is technically acceptable, but as the article was print and not radio, wrote is better  regarding Wikipedia that Wikipedia "is not only a provider of inaccuracy and bias. It is wholesale purveyor of lies and slander unlike any other the world has ever known." You are a fucking moron. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  00:32, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * My personal feeling is instead of "that Wikipedia" before the quote, it could simple be "that the site", to save repeating the site name yet one more time. Something Ken either doesn't realize or doesn't care is that when you add in all that extra verbiage, and keep repeating the same terms over and over and freakin' over again, it becomes very unpleasant to read.  That's one reason, aside from the incredible stupidity, that it's so difficult to read his evolution, atheism and homosexuality articles, and why 99% of his traffic is from people just coming to make fun of them. --Kels 00:36, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Huh, Ken himself conveniently offers an example of bad writing. Now in and of themselves, those two brief sentences introducing quotes aren't so bad. That is, if they and the quotes were then followed by some sort of detailed analysis of each quote in turn. Maybe several paragraphs after the first, before moving on to the second. As it is, it just looks like Ken doesn't actually have any thoughts of his own. In any case, it makes it look like he can't write in the English language properly, which is apparently the case. --Kels 00:42, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Anyone want to try a Reverse Lenski (and still stick the landing)?
Just realized that when Andy was asked "Where do your - ahem - statistics comes from?", his response was to say this was an "estimate" and "work in progress", but hey, since it's from me, "Do you doubt its truth?"and still. Considering how he spent most of the summer on L'affaire Lenski, who wants to call him out and insist on seeing the raw data before his numbers can be accepted as valid? --SpinyNorman 19:45, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Andy's research is not publicly-funded. Now stop talk, talk, talking and start making substantive contributions or lose credibility.  Damn, this is some good Speed. Also, how in the hell are you not permablocked over there? Publius 19:47, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Sometimes I have to wonder myself, but I suppose it's because I stick to a few basic rules. I'm always courteous, I consider opposing views thoughtfully before responding, and when I respond, it's with fair, clear logic and sourced factual backup.  I also try to add new articles now & then when I have the time, especially from the wanted page, so there's no question that while some folks there would like me to go away, I'm a constructive contributor. --SpinyNorman 20:08, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * Still does not answer the question how are you not permablocked over there. - User   22:10, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Ah shit! I thought when I see the little "a" rather than a big "A" it's someone impersonating him with a stupid quote, then I looked at the diff entry from the link above. Holy hell, the man has actually done what only Ali G has managed before and turned into his own parody! <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:33, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Now what has this got to do with me? Strelok 12:19, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * It's automagic: it sticks the viewer's name in, whoever it might be! Frohlich 12:25, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * You aren't alone - i tried to edit it twice to ask why my name was suddenly being used, then wondered where the hell the post had vanished to in the edit box. --PsyGremlinWhut? 12:30, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * OIC. I'm not that familiar with all the possibilities of wiki software. ;) Strelok 18:12, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Heh, well, on this site people have pushed the envelope far into the bag of stolen ether. Things wikipedia only dreams of can be done with the mediawiki software. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:21, 16 December 2008 (EST)

(undent) I'm surprised no one's started a blog as the fake Andy Schlafly, ala the fake Steve Jobs. --SpinyNorman 21:38, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Oh, and I'm a proud supporter of Agent Provocateur-type activities, --SpinyNorman 21:41, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * I wholeheartedly endorse the provocations of the above website. -- 06:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I strongly object that posting such links is an insidious left-wing plot... to get me to spend vast amounts of money :)&mdash; Unsigned, by: TokyoRose / talk / contribs

Student Nine
Aside from the whole sucking up thing, which any smart student in his class would do, did you notice the bit in his reply where he says "(added later)", even though he posted it at the same time as the whole rest of his response? That made me giggle a bit. --Kels 20:29, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * What gets me is that Andy gave this paper a "perfect" 100/100, even though the student claimed that Johnson started the Vietnam War. Yes parents, you're getting a real quality education for your money.  --SpinyNorman 21:40, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * No this is bad. How in name of all that is good is this worth 98%? - User   22:15, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Okay, this sews it all up. Andy knows extremely little about American history.  That is to say, I'd be far better qualified to teach, having taken a single college course.  Johnson started the Vietnam War?! Publius 22:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's about as bad as I've seen out of all the grading Andy's done.  When a 20-word, single sentence response to an "Honors" question asking for an issue to be debated gets a full score, credibility is burned.  When "Professor" Andy's final comment is "You're finished the course strongly", he's just peeing on the ashes.  --SpinyNorman 00:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Best of all? The kid sees the civil rights movement as an inspiration to get out there and deny gay people and women the rights they're demanding. Way to go kid, you're a credit to the species. I'll be in the corner vomiting. --JeevesMkII 00:50, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * It's telling that H2 is indicated as "debate", and his response is "you're right", not "I agree". And all this coming from someone who complains of Liberal public schools and their grade inflation. Kalliumtalk 22:11, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Is it just me, or is this round of homework grading even more egregiously embarrassing? We need to analyze this crap on sub pages of andrew schlafly (no jokes) and link it up.  Seriously, he used to put "some" effort into it, and people would even lose a couple of points off "perfect".  Now he grades homework with multiple spelling, grammatical, and factual errors as 100/100 "perfect".  I guess the checks all cleared? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Seems to me the quality of the efforts of both students and "teacher" declined noticeably after the mid-term sexism spat. I have a feeling even his loyal repeat customers aren't really having a good experience on this particular course. Certainly the number of homeworks submitted seems to have dropped, and the effort put in by the students likewise. As some may recall, back when Andy started this course I was pretty horrified by what he was doing but now I have some hope that the kids themselves are seeing through Andy's bullshit and may advise their parents never to let them near that arsehole ever again. --JeevesMkII 02:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Point of View
Does Andy see the same version of CP as the rest of us? Can he really be serious when he says that they do not impose a point of view? Also did he just say that "Conservative Cristian" is a pejorative term? So many many laughs out of one post he must be working so hard to keep up with Bugler and TK when it comes to keeping us laughing these days --BoredCPer 20:38, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * Actually, he said "right wing" is pejorative, which doesn't really make any more sense, since they wear far-right conservatism on their sleeves. Which are made of American flags. --Kels 20:52, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * He made a special point of "right wing", but he said all four terms (YEC, Americentric, right-wing, and conservative christian) were pejorative. I suppose his point is that, to the commie atheist liberals who run Wikipedia, those four terms would be a bad thing to be.  I know that he has said in the past that "creationist" is a slur (although he seems alone in that opinion), and I suppose he might consider himself a non-conservative Christian (just a plain ol' regular correct one), but I'm not sure where his dislike of "right wing" comes from.  Maybe, as with "conservative Christian", he views himself as a normal, middle-of-the-road dude, and considers political identification to be a two-point system (normal and liberal-evil-atheist-commie-sonsabitches) rather than a gradual spectrum.  Or maybe he's just an idiot.--WJThomas 21:07, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * PJR's said "fundamentalist" is a bad word, and I think he's tried to distance ID from creationism, although I don't think he's said that creationist is necessarily bad (heck, it's a part of YEC, which he's admitted happily). The sad part is, it's the fundies themselves that not only insisted they be called that, and the ones who made it such a bad thing.  As to Andy, he's got some sort of delusion where he wants to actually be all four of those things in practice, but he doesn't want anyone to notice.  Especially not in what he considers a bad way. --Kels 21:39, 14 December 2008 (EST)
 * CP Doesn't have a POV that would be bias, it is just written from a conservative perspective. You can't deny the obvious difference. - User   22:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)


 * He might mean, of course, that the terms are used pejoratively, which is true. Ajkgordon 06:50, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * I still can't get over the fact he started the thing over some petty BC/BCE thing. Since we know pretty much as a fact that if Jesus was exactly the man in the Bible he certainly wasn't born in 1 AD, BC/AD aren't accurate but as CE and BCE are essentially arbitrary but based on a cultural tradition, they are always accurate. Oh yeah, and damn striaght "creationist" should be perjorative. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * I have always been a big fan of the myself. -  User   01:35, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Ditto Armond. "(YE) Creationist" is a pejorative - a slur on the identifier with the term.  It means a person is willfully and blindly ignorant.  No way around that.  (right wing, conservative, conservative Christian, Christian are open to interpretation.  Americentric is, however, a bit of a pejorative, again because it implies willful ignorance, although far less so than YEC). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * A BON changed "Right Wing" to "Conservative" - it was changed back shortly thereafter. Frohlich 01:33, 16 December 2008 (EST)

I must give thanks
I'm so glad I have Conservapedia to read.... Here I always thought that Pinochet was a brtual dictator who oppressed and killed political opponents. Now I know that he was free market reformer who was hounded out of office and slandered by Communists..... I'm so glad I read that before I went into my history class. A link, just so you don't have to look. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  00:47, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Pedantry Corner
And the current Guest World Treasure is 'The Big Ben'. I guess to non UK residents that probably won't sound so wrong but it is NEVER referred to as 'The Big Ben' but simply 'Big Ben'.
 * All other references to 'Big Ben' must be changed to 'The Big Ben' to conform. Pseudomonas 03:48, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * And for all the true pedants - that's not Big Ben. Big Ben is a bell, the one which tolls the hours - the 'bongs' on News at Ten. That's the tower of the House of Parliament. Silver Sloth 04:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * To be even more pedantic, it's the Clock Tower. There are two towers, the other being Victoria Tower at the other end. And it's the Palace of Westminster, not the House (sic) of Parliament, of which there are two - the Lords and the Commons. Ajkgordon 05:14, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, WP says that it's sometimes used to refer to the clock tower, but it's never THE Big Ben ever. And as you learn something new everyday, it isn't St. Stephen's Tower. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 08:02, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * To be fair, it's more than "sometimes" used to refer to the tower - many British people use the name Big Ben interchangeably for the bell, the clock or the tower, even whilst knowing that it's actually the name of the bell. (Most people call our flag the Union Jack too, even though that's usually wrong as well.) The "the" is just wrong, though. alt 10:59, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * To be fairer, calling the Union Flag the Union Jack is not incorrect. The name was approved by Parliament ages ago. The Big Ben sounds as incongruous to us Brits as the Concorde. Ajkgordon 14:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Doesn't The Rooster live in The Big Ben? Sandman 09:28, 15 December 2008 (EST)

FDR
For a laugh, have a look at the FDR page's introduction. Is it about Roosevelt? I'm not sure 124.190.16.112 04:34, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * This one? Yeah, the New Deal is a serious pain to Conservatives, especially since Obama may decided to try it again. --Gulik 16:26, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * We can only hope... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Lucky Thirteen
We have enough American History Homework Twelve Answers on WIGO, so just a post here for this one. 

The Cold War was between the Unites States and the USSR, and it lasted for most of the second half of the 20th Century.
 * Excellent. Precise dates are usually not needed in history.68.236.194.181

Yes, neither it is necessary to remind that US had half a planet of allies. And, actually, who cares about dates? For example, who cares about the year US entered WW2? Really, US didn't save Poland? Must be because Pearl Harbor happened while Poland was invaded. No, I don't want to check dates. Barraki 08:07, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * I have sod all interest in history and know more about the Cold War than that. Maybe they're just on a time limit? How fast do you think they can type? <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:38, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Dates are largely irrelevant in history. People like to point to the birth of the renaissance in 1453 for example (The fall of Constantinople) but there are clearly examples in Italy of it happening earlier than this, and examples in northern Europe (Such as the Netherlands, Britain) where it took a while to get going but when it did it exploded (Such as late 16th, early 17th centuries) Then people drag in the 'Barogue' era, when it constantly overlaps with the renaissance, and of course in the middle of it all feudalism still hangs on in several areas where the renaissance is occuring up the road. The fact is, the date doesn't matter - the historical concepts is what counts in historical study.

I would say ye are being nitpickity. MarcusCicero 14:23, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Though for this particular issue, it may be a little different. It may even be hard to give a precise date for the end of the Cold War, considering Russia's instability and turbulence following the fall of socialism. MarcusCicero 14:24, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * As one who was kicked out of History classes because of an inability to remember dates, I would love to agree, but: they're very useful for synchronising things like: who was in power in Vietnam when the Berlin wall went up; who was British PM when it came down; how long did the Mau Mau last. There's a lot of things happening at any one ti me that are only connectable by the date but might need to be analysed in terms of later (or earlier) events in away that requires dating. Frohlich 23:42, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Well that's disappointing
I can't believe they blocked Uncle Stu! (I'm not him by the way.)--Kriss AkabusiAAAAWOOOOGAAAR!!1 12:46, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Buff/offwhite telephone for PJR
If your interested, PJR, another response is on my talk page.--Toffeeman 14:53, 15 December 2008 (EST)

I wouldn't expect anything from PJR to soon: when A. Schlafly started to call him a liberal, he cut down his editing frequency. Now, Ed Poor has broken his promise, and of course, Ed Poor erased this accusation. I think that PJR is quite an honest man (with some very disturbing views about creation :-), who sometimes just shuts his eyes to the travesty which surrounds him (see: his belated reaction to the Obama article.) And he doesn't react in impulse, he'll mull over Ed Poor's behaviour, but he can't ignore it. In the meantime, he'll edit just sporadically. My two (Euro) cents, LArron 16:22, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Well, it might tempt him here. Then again it's good just to write it down. Trying to write down what I meant clarified my thoughts quite a bit.  It'd be nice to carry on the discussion, but it was a useful spur even if it goes no further.--Toffeeman 17:16, 15 December 2008 (EST)

CP dead?
I'm showing no edits to CP since 40 minutes or so ago. Anyone with an account: is it working? Is there just no-one there?- 16:40, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Probably nobody much around. Andy's recharging his crazy batteries, and TK claims Ed's off on some outside project (for whatever that's worth), RJJ is still semi-active, though.  Interesting though, when I refresh the Recent Changes, it loads as normal, but then at the bottom says "Waiting for bible.logos.com".  Is that something to do with that little bible verse (does it contain enough Hell for Andy?), or what? --Kels 16:45, 15 December 2008 (EST) Edit And so it is!  Looks like that nifty little pop-up thing they've got draws from the accursed New International Version, which has 25% less hell than the KJV. --Kels 16:51, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * According to this, it seems to be editable. --LArron 16:47, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Also according to that, they seem to have regularized "night mode" times at 12:31 AM --> 7:01 AM.- 16:50, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Ed's not off WP; if anything he's doing more than he has for months. Frohlich 16:55, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Looks like he's still trying to wedge ID and global warming denialism into the articles over there, like usual. Once a POV pusher, always a POV pusher, I guess. --Kels 17:03, 15 December 2008 (EST)

The crazy is back, it seems. WTF is with this edit summary, anyhow? --Kels 21:13, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Bilbo Baggins is the main character... Tolkien must be turning in his grave. If I had any memorabilia I'd be hugging them and sobbing in a corner, rocking back and forth as I try to tell myself that "it's only Conservapedia, nobody reads it for facts anymore." [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  23:35, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * It seems to be some weird revenge on the other guy for knowing more about computing history than he did, but he's taking it out on an entirely unrelated article. Childish and stupid, that's CP value! --Kels 23:49, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * Sigh...I used to get the weird things Ed did, kinda, but that edit summary doesn't even BEGIN to make sense. And who's Sam? Is it like...-wise? Is Samwise Gamgee an evil liberal wandal, Eddy? Is he trying to talk up Charles Babbage? It's okay. We understand . -- 10:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)

And the Conservapedia award for Nursing goes to?
The |"general academic fields" they currently have pixellated awards for (I want to call them Pixies!) make a lot of sense. Nursing? Forestry? Library science? Well, those are clearly more important than, I don't know, HISTORY, SCIENCE, LANGUAGE, and LITERATURE. Publius 23:26, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * They are to cover for all the fields the liberal Nobel Prizes miss obviously. - User   23:29, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * My favourite is DENTISTRY, especially as CP doesn't seem to have a single entry on the subject (not even dentistry itself). Is this a weird incentive scheme to try & get people writing about these subjects which nobody at CP has any interest in?  <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId [[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]]~ 23:35, 15 December 2008 (EST)


 * Simple explanation: these are based on a list of academic regalia colors as used in American universities. In our system, incredibly broad fields of study are subsumed under "Philosophy", while relatively narrow (and less traditionally "academic") fields like Forestry have their own tassle and hood colors.  Bluefish 00:14, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * (EC, and oy! you stole my material you jerk :D) My WTF moment was "Dentistry." What does a dentist have to do to win a Conservapedia award? Lecture you on creationism throughout a root canal as a sadistic means to add to your discomfort? Wouldn't surprise me, dentists are all sadists to a man. Also, enlighten me. What the hell is library science? --JeevesMkII 23:37, 15 December 2008 (EST)
 * I was never really certain, but you can get a Master's in it (MLS). Something to do with managing data.  And books. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Library Science, very briefly (and redundantly), is the field of study for people who want to be Librarians. Wanna be a lawyer?  Get a law degree.  Wanna be a librarian?  Get a MLS.  (Research and Corporate Librarians and the like moreso than Public Library librarians, but them too especially if they're the Head Librarian.)  Bunchanumbers 4.143.244.16 02:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I've lovingly created our own award, in the field of Goat Dentistry. I don't think it warrants any kind of competition though.  If you feel that you deserve one, just put it on your user page.  <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId [[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]]~ 00:01, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * (EC - Grrrrrr) I regard the absence of a science medal as particularly telling. But, then again, maybe you don't need a science medal if you are going to have Bible awards.  What the Hell can science tell us that isn't in the Bible?  --Horace 00:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * That whole hell thing really freaks me out. Andy's got a real punishment fixation going on. --Kels 00:08, 16 December 2008 (EST)

This medal, is it for people who perform dentistry on goats or for goats who incidentally perform dentistry? --JeevesMkII 00:17, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Holy shit, are they giving out military decorations now? And I used to think that saying CP sysops were the new SS was a joke. DickTurpis 00:26, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * My sole purpose in life is to obtain a goat dentistry medal. THAT goat dentistry medal. Publius 01:10, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Such a thing is easily accomplished. The acceptance criteria for the medal really are very low.  <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId [[Image: Weaselly.jpg|15px]]~ 11:14, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I saw a goat with teeth once. Does that qualify? --Kels 14:15, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yes, of course. I already awarded it to myself for 1. having teeth, and 2. being able to spell gaot. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)

You know with the military awards, militant reaction to debate (block to silence) and the need to put Hitler on everything makes one wonder if Andy is aware of how much Conservapedia is becoming a Totalitarian site. Perhaps he is confused about the difference between conservatism and totalitarianism?--TimS 16:30, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * It's not exactly a long jump from authoritarian to totalitarian, but I think the former is what Andy's aiming at. Or something like a dictatorship where nobody actually notices they're being dictated. --Kels 16:35, 16 December 2008 (EST)

I think that the Conservapedia award for Nursing should go to none other than Phyllis Schlafly, since Andy has managed to go 47 years without releasing his latch on his mother's tit.--Martin Arrowsmith 17:22, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Somebody explain this to me
Andrew Schlafly, as quoted by NPR's Robert Seigel last year: "[L]et's take a point of view, let's disclose that point of view to the reader" Aschlafly yesterday: "We provide the truth and do not 'impose' any point of view." I haz confuzed.--Bayes 00:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * CP's drifted pretty far from its original charter. There have been a number of postings on that general theme lately.  Bluefish


 * Andy's an idiot.
 * You're welcome. --Kels 00:18, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Hey! Conservapedia welcomes ALL valid points of view, from the Far-Right to the Ultra-Right! --Gulik 15:06, 16 December 2008 (EST)

AndrewM
AndrewM has been around a while, he usual make a junior third partner in helping RW and Bugler beat up on people for not respecting CP. You can tell he is a parodist as he does the Bugler "Andy owns this place so he is right regardless of reality" thing. - User   00:55, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * You mean AlexanderM, right? I've been thinking the same thing, he seems to be copying Bugler ... if a Bugler meets another Bugler, what will happen? Mark my words, CP will end in bloodshed. 85.228.96.215 11:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * No doubt in my mind of AlexanderM's parodist credentials. Check out his 12/15 contributions: new articles on BDSM, Swinging, Polygamy.  He sometimes plays the good cop to Bugler's bad cop.  It's amazing, the variety and diversity of parodist styles on CP.--Simple 11:54, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Query
What's happened to imagebot? I can't raise CP at all - been deprived for about 5 hours & the piccies would be nice. Frohlich 01:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Trent has to run imagebot manually on a winbloze box, so it's a bit erratic. He'll catch up, don't worry.  There's nothing we can do to make it run on our end. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:49, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Couldn't we have some remotely triggered shock collar linked in to the wiki to lash tmt to do things around here? Maybe you should get one free shock credit per dollar you donate or something? :D --JeevesMkII 02:12, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * We should at least get him to run a window on the new server, when he sets it up, that is running XP or something and auto-runs the bot every six hours or so. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:15, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Apparently Jeeves remote shock collar did the trick. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:18, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Satan and all his imps, please no! Don't run windows on the server! The site'd be down for ever and ever. Apache and PHP don't play at all well with windows, and I'm not sure if Mediawiki does either. --JeevesMkII 02:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Can't he run it in its own corner, with everything else running on a "real" OS like linux? So winblows just runs as if it is an ap?  That was always the impression I got from my hard-core programmer friends - that even if windz crashes, nothing else is affected?  Anyway, Trent wouldn't do it if it were a problem.  Just a suggestion, is all. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  14:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Well, wine works remarkably well these days. I actually run a webservice which earns me a handful of dollars each month worth of passive income which depends in part on a windows executable running under wine on the back end (mainly because I'm too lazy to write the equivalent functionality for myself). This may be more difficult, of course, since I suspect it depends on having a display. A headless X server is a possibility, but I'm not sure how well that'll work out in practice. --JeevesMkII 15:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wine crashed my Ubuntu 4 times, so I vanished it. Toast 15:06, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * (might have been that I was overworking it but all I wanted it for was Photoshop - now persevering with GIMP) Toast 15:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Not Worth a WiGO - JM Edition
Okay, the fact that this page exists is so stereotypically "making a big show of it" Conservative it's funny already, but I had to laugh at the much bigger pic of The Babe than everyone else. But then...I scrolled down... --Kels 08:11, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Alright, who's the parodist that snuck Paul Newman in there? And where's Reagan? DickTurpis 08:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * That parodist was JM himself. You don't think he'd let anyone touch his "articles" without throwing a hissy fit, do you?  And Regan?  Pfft!  He doesn't compare to St. McCain, Greatest of All American Heroes!! --Kels 08:16, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * I think it's amusing that Barry Bonds is listed in the See Also section. Jr  ss  r5  08:57, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * For some reason, McCain's picture jumps out at you. I can't figure out why.Czolgolz 09:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Its his natural charisma. EternalCritic 09:55, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * I think it's his natural air of heroism. --Kels 10:10, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think after being unable to jump for 5 years while being a prisoner of war he always takes advantage of his opportunities.Patrickr 10:19, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I think it's because his eyes look black in that picture and it creeps me the hell out. Anyone ever seen Supernatural? It's like when a demon possesses you... -- 10:32, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * He's just that much of a fucking maverick he's larger than life. EternalCritic 10:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * I like the inclusion of Robert E. Lee as an American Hero, seeing as how Lee wasn't a traitorous bastard who took up arms against the United States of America, or anything nefarious like that.--WJThomas 11:34, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Just to defend Lee for a minute, he only joined the Cofederates because his state seceded, out of loyalty to his state (of which he was a member of an early settling family), and he wasn't very much in favour of slavery either... 86.159.131.58 16:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * The funny part, to me, is that he's still being held up as a hero on a site where far, far less gets you branded as a traitor. One of my favourites is here, with TerryH saying, "Therefore to be a good Muslim is to be a murderer and a traitor..."  Loads of others get the same treatment as a matter of course, whether they be prominent figures or regular CP editors.  But Lee, he's okay.  =) --Kels 16:39, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Although a Confederate General, Lee really is held in pretty high esteem as a figure in US History. Just read the wikipedia article on him for some info. <font color="teal" face="comic sans ms">dream <font color="purple" face="comic sans ms">ing <font color="Gray" face="comic sans ms">Hail Eris! 19:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * No doubt he's held in high esteem... But that fact remains that they're calling him an American Hero when he waged a bloody war against America. Meanwhile, Bill Ayers is a terrorist and should be at the least, tortured to death by wolverines. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  19:09, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'm not saying you don't have a point, you really do. But compared to the rest of CP, it's practically uncontroversial. <font color="teal" face="comic sans ms">dream <font color="purple" face="comic sans ms">ing <font color="Gray" face="comic sans ms">Hail Eris! 12:53, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * Thus the title of the section, in case you didn't notice it earlier. Although it is interesting that all this discussion on the talk page about people who should be removed, and JM doesn't seem inclined to actually take anything out.  It's pretty typical of his style, whatever he puts in, stays in, even if it makes no sense at all (like the business with the Painting article). --Kels 13:02, 17 December 2008 (EST)

VB
I'm not going to WIGO this in case I'm wrong, but this seems like a n Ed piss-poor example of an If then else statement. His students must be so confused in class. Jr ss  r5  10:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * You're right: it's a crap example for a number of reasons. Poor variable namees (x, y and z! Hardly helpful, standard or explnaatory!) Also what the condition actually achieves is really unhelpful as it requires an understanding of the if then else structure to work it out - and if you understand it already there's no point in the bloody article. I'm an ex-professional programmer by the way. As Ed is fond of saying, could a 10 year old understand it? StarFish 11:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I guess it's partly a matter of personal preference but I would have coded it....
 * y = z
 * if x < 4 then
 * y = y + x
 * end if
 * Would achieve the same results in less code and is easier to understand IMO StarFish 11:44, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Would achieve the same results in less code and is easier to understand IMO StarFish 11:44, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Maybe there's a reason he's an ex-programmer instead of a current one. Aside from which, according to his statements on Wikiversity, he teaches music, rather than any of the stuff he ruins advises on at CP. --Kels 11:46, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Hang on, he teaches music as well now? I get the impression that Ed simply makes up his "talents" to fit the audience. He's either some sort of useless renaissance man, a jack of all trades, or he's simply a master bullshitter. I'm quite prepared to believe master moonie is a fluent Korean speaker, but also soldier, morris dancer, teacher of all subjects, etc. etc. It all gets a bit unbelievable. --JeevesMkII 11:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'm guessing he's a substitute of some sort, the guy who doesn't really know anything about the subject but just makes students read the text while the real teacher's away. Besides, to all indications it's probably a Moonie school, so who knows what the quality's like in there. --Kels 12:01, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I wouldn't bet on the substitute idea.... Sub teachers are evaluated harder that regular teachers. You have to be pretty damn good to be a sub in a real disrict... But then, as it is most likely a Moonie church, that lowers the bar quite a bit.  I think it's more likely that Ed makes up whatever shit he feels like spewing to make himself look cool.  <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  12:51, 16 December 2008 (EST)

(Unindent) Is Ed married? I wonder about his personality off line?--TimS 13:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * He's mentioned being married before. One would assume his wife, like Andy's, is grateful for every second he spends on wikis and not bothering her. --Kels 14:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Bugler gets "smacked"?
Not sure that's really a term I'd use to simply answering him, especially from someone posting a WiGO about themselves. Besides, Bugler's already answered, so I guess he's smacking back. --Kels 13:03, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * If Bugler's head gets any further up Andy's ass, he'll be coughing up hairballs. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  13:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Fair enough, but I have to leave my computer pretty soon and I wanted to at least note that our little discussion is ongoing. Feel free to revise. Also, in my defense, it's not like I added the initial WIGO. -Drek
 * Drek, seems that Bugler does not understand that no matter the context, analysis requires data to support conclusions. I guess teh leader does not need data.  Perhaps Lenski needs no data as well?--TimS 13:25, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's cool. I'm gonna comment out the "spanked part" and wait until something more substantial than a parodist talking happens. --Kels 13:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Good idea, I would like to see how Andy reacts.--TimS 13:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * It's hard to believe sometimes that Andy doesn't realize how incredibly stupid stuff like this makes him look. I know we're all used to "I read the first sentence, and it doesn't agree with me", but seriously he could at least pretend to have an argument. --Kels 13:57, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Bugler's changed from saying he's rarely polite to saying he's surprisingly civil. It's here. Has anyone notices that he's less impolite? I haven't. Proxima Centauri 14:27, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Can he replace it with "often moronic"? He's surprisingly civil because it almost never happens. --Kels 14:31, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * He changed his userpage because the WIGO entry says the same about his response to Drek. A subtle hint he's one of us? [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  14:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)

TK's "inspirational" quotes
Didn't Team Killa do this back before he got himself turfed from CP, finding an irrelevant quote somewhere and spamming it around in order to silence dissent? --Kels 14:02, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Does TK hope teh Assfly will spend himself fighting. TK will get lulz from that and so will we. Proxima Centauri 14:13, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I like Ed's response: so what? If they don't say anything, I can do it! That's exactly what got him booted from WP. Of course, on CP, nobody cares to say anything for lowly editors... [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  14:52, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Speaking of Special Ed, I see he's back to his old tricks over at WP. Wonder how long it'll be before he gets in trouble again? --Kels 15:16, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * BRichtigen seems to have misunderstood TK - he'll suffer, I suppose LArron 15:19, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Somebody needs to slap a "delete" tag on the abuse desk. Corryundefined 16:24, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Wow, I bet this will turn out lulzy. Anyone who posts abuse will get blocked from now on, and others will step into the mine field just for kicks. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  16:30, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Yeah, I kind of assumed that would happen. The abuse page is loaded with irony.  Corryundefined 16:32, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Bungler's comment on AlanS' talk page is a head-scratcher. How is "I fully expect to get blocked" a "get out of gaol free card", when everyone who says it actually does end up getting blocked? --Kels 17:26, 16 December 2008 (EST)

CP Trollrating?
Seems quite a few postings today got negative-ratings almost immediately after posting, then slowly got back into the positives. A couple still remain negative. Are we getting trollraters from CP? If so, glad to see you guys here! More lulz to go around. Irrationalatheist 14:55, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * I dunno about the others, but I voted down Andy's refusal to give numbers because it had already been WiGOed. --Kels 15:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Yes, I added a note to the WIGO that it probably should be merged with the previous one. Too close together. But I've watched some that are now +5, +10, etc., start off -2 or -3 when they were at the top of the list. Seems odd that it keeps happening if it's not trollrating. Irrationalatheist 15:10, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Could be. On the other hand, there's no accounting for taste and maybe somebody didn't care for them.  Wasn't me, save for that one, though. --Kels 15:12, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Sometimes a WIGO isn't that great but then as more drama unfolds from it the ratings can increase. I'll admit too that sometimes I'll vote one down if it isn't explained well or requires too much reading to get it (much like Schlafly does, but mine's out of laziness, not stupidity).  Jr  ss  r5  15:28, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * It has always been a suspicion of mine that the sysops from CP when monitoring us vote them down. - User   17:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Since its by IP, it would be interesting if one could produce a WIGO Appreciation Rating. What is the distribution of "+" vs "-" for a given IP?  Report on it with a one way hash of the ip so not to disclose any privacy information. Just would be neat to see the various graphs on it. --Shagie 18:12, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I voted down a few wigos because they were fucking lame. Disappointed to see some pro-CP trolls voting them up again :( <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:23, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I can understand them going negative if it's just linking to something either too boring or too common or, you know, generally not that good. But if it's poorly explained, badly worded, could be expanded or made funnier with the wording, then people should just go ahead and edit. I don't think anyone owns WIGO entries like they do with essays etc. It's not like you really have discovered something new and need to claim a patent on it. Obviously, don't delete the entries, but expand, update or rearrange (in the case of duplicates) if necessary. Just leave it in the edit comment that "been posted before" etc. <font color=red face="Tahoma"> A rmondiko V  User_Talk:Armondikov 09:15, 17 December 2008 (EST)
 * While what you say is true, if I see a wigo that I would describe as "fucking lame", I'm just going to vote it down. If a see a good one that can be improved (however that may be), I'll vote it up and try to fix it. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)

aschlafly
Sorry if this is a re-post, I have not been around for a while... Why/when did the assfly start going by "aschalfly" as opposed to the classic "Aschlafly"? Does it have anything to do with the librul conspiracy to deny the existence of hell through grammar? Is it the calling card of a parodist (things that are not capitalized do not exist, ergo the assfly is a fiction)? -- 16:05, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Kenny recently did the same thing--Going from big-C "Conservative" to little-c "conservative".--WJThomas 16:34, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Speaking of Andy, notice how most of his favorite entries are by, well...him? And say, aren't they putting down Bush for not being conservative enough these days?  His pic's still at the top of the Conservative page. --Kels 16:41, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * No he "is the epitome of American conservatism, except on immigration and government spending." If he had gotten the last two right McCain and Palin would have won. - User   17:41, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I saw the small-a-aschlafly last week, about the same time as the small-h-in-hell dust-up. And yes, I think you can make a case that Aschlafly is a parodist.  Is he a parodist or does he genuinely believe the bile pumping from his keyboard?  Occam's razor tells me it's parody.--Simple 16:50, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Actually, Occam's razor says it's not. Bluefish 16:56, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Aye. He's the real deal. The obvious explanation is that he thinks the small a looks better, but I like to think he's been embarrassed into it by TK and Bugler's continual attempts to deify him as the Leader and Owner of Conservapedia. --Robledo 17:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * Looks like he edited his user preferences and, as with everything else concerning the site, doesn't care that he made the mistake. [[Image:AndyToad.gif|20px]]<font face="Comic Sans"><font color = "Green">Norseman  Cyser Melomel  17:06, 16 December 2008 (EST)

CP has no laws, only POWER
We've always known that was true, but it's nice to see TK coming straight out and saying it. (And a nice little parody of Dick Cheney's "The Constitution is not a suicide pact" BS as well.) Und now it's turnink into vun of DOSE plans, again.... --Gulik 17:29, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * Roger unblocks BR. Corryundefined 17:32, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * That's quite a surprise and the second time he did so! LArron 17:35, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * TK carefully concentrates his fire on those who remain blocked: "AlanS, are you always prone to hysterical ranting?" --Sid 17:45, 16 December 2008 (EST)


 * TK's really one to talk about productive editing, with only 15 of the past 50 edits in mainspace, and seven of those either minor edits or reverts. Get the hell off the talk pages, TK! --Kels 17:59, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Statistics is the new evolution
This WIGO item is unbelievable, even by the standards of Schlafly Statistics. Drek did not say a single thing in his post that was anything other than a straight-forward explanation of sampling. Andy's only response is "Only liberals says that statistics doesn't includes numbers I pull out of my ass." Let's see, the first sentence of the article "Mystery" incoherent rant is "Conservative principles are based on reason." We're sure he's not a parodist? You can't make this stuff up. Godspeed 18:07, 16 December 2008 (EST)