User:Bicycle Wheel/RationalWikiWiki Treehouse archive 7

Artist's depiction photo challenge (or something)
So, to help liven this place up, I've decided to have a photo challenge for RWians for whom we have no photos for. The concept is simple: find a RWian who doesn't have a photo here, and upload an "artist's depiction" photo of what you think that RWian looks like. That photo will then be placed as "an artist's depiction" on that RWian's page. If there are multiple entries, then the RWW community will hold a short debate and vote on which photo prevails. Punky McPunkersen 13:01, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The only rule of this contest is that all photos must be original photos and not something found in Creative Commons or the like. Punky McPunkersen 13:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Damn, we should have a good cartoonist / caracaturist who could do one for everyone! Crundy 15:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I can sketch... sorta. Ty 15:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Why can't we use creative commons stuff? Did you sculpt that ugly tiki yourself?--Brxbrx 22:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the idea Sam  ®  01:40, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Kels could do it, if she were still here. 04:58, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose, if you want, you can use Creative Commons and public domain stuff. I just want people to be as creative as possible. And, no, that tiki mug wasn't my own work. Just my own photo. Punky McPunkersen 07:07, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I should have checked RWW more often in the last few weeks as that sounds fun. Armondikov
 * Would you actually want my caricature? I did recently sort out the beady deformed eye that was on it so it might just work. Armondikov 15:58, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure why not? TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 16:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * So are we going to do this??? Nembus 05:14, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose...I should get going on this...considering this is why I've been summoned in the first place...Meh.--만두 06:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Brx need stripping of his show/hide rights
He continually exposed my workplace IP address after I had hidden it. 3 times he exposed without asking me why I was hiding it and even after I told him I wanted it hidden. This is extremely out of order. Ace McWicked 05:16, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Aren't you a bureaucrat here?--Brxbrx 05:17, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, and I have done it. Ace McWicked 05:18, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Good thing I reminded you, you'd be lost without me--Brxbrx 05:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this settled then? I will be honest and say that if someone wants to hide their IP, they must have some sort of good reason for doing it, so Brx was in the wrong. But I don't think a permanent loss of rights is warranted here. Just a day or two maybe. Punky McPunkersen 10:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ace, you do realise that no one would have ever thought that IP address had anything to do with your work if you had not decided to tell us all. And your hiding it, and the warring over the hiding, just creates your own mini-Streisand effect. Pretty dumb move.
 * That said, Brxbrx, if Ace wants to make a big deal about it, let him have things his way. You are a good guy and valuable to RW(W), and this isn't worth it. Maratrean 12:04, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And the fact that it's against RW policies - and by extension RWW policies is neither here nor there? Funny how Mara suddenly doesn't care about the rules he otherwise feels so passionately about. Silver Sloth 12:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Sloth, and how is what I have said contrary to the policy? I told Brxbrx that he should let it stay hidden. I don't dispute Ace's right under the policies to have it kept hidden; but that doesn't change the fact that his behaviour here has been counter-productive. Maratrean 12:18, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ace was trying to defend himself and his IP address. Therefore, his actions are understandable. While I have opposed people hiding their IPs in the past, I also think that, if all they're doing is hiding their IP address and nothing more, I don't see any reason whatsoever to make it into a big spectacle. Especially if (as in Ace's case) it was a work IP address or the like. Punky McPunkersen 07:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Bricks acted like a total arsehole - again. Even if it wasn't counter to policies it was extremely discourteous to go against another users express wishes. Ace's reaction was proportionate to the crime. He knew, we all knew, the Brick's rights would be restored in short measure but something that dramatic was needed to get through Bricks thick hide just how much of an arsehole he was being. As for your comment to Bricks that he should only follow site policies because "Ace wants to make a big deal about it" - no, he should follow site policies because that's the way we do things. Silver Sloth 12:25, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Brxbrx is a good guy. He's not perfect, but his record of late is a lot better than Ace's has been. Maratrean 12:29, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree completely. You have your friends, I have mine. But whether he's been good or not is completely irrelevant. He broke the fucking rules when repeatedly asked not to. Stop being such a fucking hypocrite. One moment you're all offended over a minor rule infraction and now, because it's a friend of yours, you're all "well, he's a good guy so we should go easy on him." Silver Sloth 12:54, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The privacy policy is about other people revealing information about someone. The warning you get when you try to edit as an IP informs you that your IP will be recorded in the history. Bricks was not breaking any rules, he was just being a dick. --  Nx  / talk 14:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also copied over the ceiling cat warning from RW, hopefully this will help avoid accidents like this in the future. -- Nx  / talk 14:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Sloth, get over yourself. I said Brxbrx should stop doing it. End of discussion. Maratrean 19:12, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * more inconsistencies from Maratrean. No surprises there. No wonder he had to make up his own religion. Ace McWicked 20:36, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Should I go to the store or is the pinning something on Maratrean going well enough? --Ullhateme 21:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

9/11
Ten years ago today, I was just walking, half awake, into my morning Honors Biology class. Nobody knew about the goings on in New York yet, even though both towers had been hit by this time. 10 minutes into the start of class, another science teacher came and pounded on the door, and our teacher left for a few minutes. He came back, and turned on the TV searching for CNN. When CNN came on, we all watched for a few minutes. Confused and shaken, I remember it all started to sink in and I had this "Oh shit!" feeling come over me that, to this day, is the only time I have ever experienced it. Once we all kinda figured out what was going on, our teacher turned around and looked at us and said "Class, the rest of the hour is quiet study time. If you need to leave class for personal reasons, let me know and I'll fill out the hall pass." I remember some time later remember that my uncle Paul was working somewhere in Manhatten, and wondering for the rest of the day whether or not he was fine. Those hours of unknowing seem like years, and when I got home my family was all huddled together in shock. It took 3 days for us to finally get contact with Paul, and when we did, we found out that he was OK. It was one of the most bittersweet moments of my life knowing that my uncle survived. I was happier than ever knowing that he made it, but absolutely sad that so many others didn't get to hear that their loved ones survived. To this day, it still makes me cry. Conficker 14:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I was in English, I believe, and then one of the world history teachers opened the door and started crying. I had no clue what was going on for a few hours, and then I was told that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center and a vision of Satan smiling appeared in the clouds. When we went to math the math teacher told us to write an essay about how we felt. I was confused and 10, so I don't remember what I wrote. I didn't get the significance until I got home and dad told we there was going to be another war, which my parents seemed oddly giddy about. I remember a Pakistani kid got beaten up later in the week for "causing it". It later became a unified course theme, tied in with a chambered nautilus for some reason. i was mostly confused, but when i was told there might be a war I wanted to know were I could join the military, and started dreaming of living in a bunker in the woods. TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 15:57, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * When the planes hit it was already afternoon in Germany and I was sitting in front of the computer while my mom was watching TV in my room. She then called for me and told my (I think I will never forget her original words) "There's a fire in the Wordl Trade Center". 13-year old me not knowing what the hell the WTC was at the time asked "and?" and went out of the room again. Only later that day news were slowly starting to come in and even the teenage boy in me realized that the world had suddenly become a different place. Later that day I remember my fater, a rather rational guy, raving about how Saddam was behind all this and the German media trying to explain how Americans dealt with all this (the stories of heroes, how everybody "gathered around the flag", etc.) The next day in the bus to school I remember that not a single word was spoken, everybody, including the pupils from elemantary school, were completely silent. And in school various teachers tried to explain to us what the hell just happend over there, they pretty much failed and we got out of school around 10. It was that day that I became interested in politics, cultural studies and fundamentalism, and later probably as consequence philosophy.
 * A half year later we got a student from Afghanistan. Her parents had fled Afghanistan after it being freed from the Taliban and she had burning marks all over her right arm, she never said how she got those but we all assumed it wasn't from a car accident. She is to this day one of the friendliest people I've ever met. --Ullhateme 17:19, 11 September 2011 (UTC)


 * This day is one of those moments where I felt 'lucky'. I was about 9 or so, and was still relatively new to the states. About a week before, I had just traveled back from New York, the World Trade Center---actually. Something to do with papers and such, as well as something to do with my families' business. All I remember was sitting in the cafeteria, and I felt this wave of uneasiness. The lunch ladies would constantly stare at the television screen, not caring if the food on their spatula actually got onto the children's plate. They would whisper under their breathe asking whether or not this was a joke of some sort. Eventually, the principal's voice was heard throughout the school. All I know that there was a solemn tone in her voice...the usually rowdy cafeteria was actually dead quiet. The television kept repeating the scene of the twin towers and the plane. Explosions. People jumping out of the building.
 * Once the intercom turned off, the students looked at one another with this look of fear. It wasn't a joke. Most worried about family members and what was going to happen next. We were too young to think 'War'. Too young to understand what was going on. But I do remember, they definitely understood the concept of "Brown people are bad." The words 'diaperheads' and 'terrorists' would echo through the hallways.
 * I remember there was a brother and sister who were from Afghanistan. They were rather quiet and polite...but after an incident where the sister was bullied, the brother started to become more defensive and would often get into a lot of fights. I haven't seen the brother after he got expelled...and the sister was moved into my class. She was quiet. Smart. And I rather liked her because she would often sit next to me during recess and just watch me doodle. We were both rather loners...and although we never really said a word to each other due to language barriers, we were able to communicate through our simple doodles. It was a pleasant friendship, but the next year she wasn't there anymore. Her family was sent back to their country. That's all I know. I sometimes still think of her...and wonder how she's doing. If she's alive...if she ever came back to the states.
 * Her name was Anoosheh. Anoo for short. But her name meant "Lucky". And to me, she was. --만두 21:16, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I remember was my sophomore year in high school and that I had just gotten to my morning class "Law and You." It was still very early in the day, and class was a ways away from starting. My teacher always had the TV tuned in to the morning news shows before class, and was watching (if I remember correctly) CNN. I walked in to class just a moment or two after the first plane hit, and they were reporting it live. My teacher told everyone coming in to be quiet because it looked interesting. The first bell rang and not long after, we watched as the second plane hit. Everyone in class sat there, silent, trying to figure out what was going on. My teacher handed out a quiz and said she'd keep the TV on so we could watch. And we did watch. We watched the entire rest of the horror unfold for the entire 2 hour class. Luckily, I thought, I didn't know anyone who worked or lived near the WTC towers. But, Tom Burnett Jr., of Flight 93 fame, would come to be someone I had known. His father, Tom Burnett Sr., was a retired teacher and a former colleague and friend of my late grandfather. While I didn't know the Burnetts well, I knew and know who they are. Sometimes, looking back, I am astonished at just how removed I can feel from it all, and yet how, at the same time, I can feel so connected to it all. And you know what image still comes into my mind about that day? The fact that, even though I was in high school and teenage boys are supposed to act tough and manly, it was okay to cry that day. No matter who you were, you could cry and grieve about what happened, and do it publicly, and nobody made fun of you. Nobody bullied you or teased you because everyone knew just how awful the events of the day were. Punky McPunkersen 15:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd come home early from work and switched the TV on, to be greeted by an image of the WTC on fire. The reporters were talking about it being on fire, evacuation attempts underway and "unconfirmed reports that a small plane had hit the tower." After watching for a bit, I phoned my dad, to get him to watch. We were chatting on the phone, wondering what had happened when the second plane went in. First and only time I've heard my dad say "Fuck!" and that was when it dawned on me that something big was going down. Was almost unbelievable to watch, especially when the towers came down. - Psy (tltli)
 * My father-in-law used to work in the The City. Naturally, his company traded in the WTC. He lost three close friends. I didn't know this until last week. Armondikov 22:03, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

OccupyMN...
...Was a fucking joke. I went to the rally in downtown Minneapolis which was (naturally) to be in solidarity with the Occupy Wall St. rally. So, I brought not just myself, but my entire immediate family and two of my closest friends with me and we all brought food and supplies to the occupants and had planned to stay for, at least, a couple days. When we got there, however, what we found was nothing more than disgraceful; a fragmented movement caught up in fringe ideology. Rather than have people protesting about the reason they were down there (Wall St. and the 99%ers), they found every other goddamn fringe thing to use as their front: 9/11 conspiracy, support for Anonymous (note: I can't stand Anonymous worshippers or 9/11 conspiracy nutters), and a host of other divisive issues, some of which I completely agreed with and others I completely disagreed with. Not that I minded this, however, because every protest I've ever been to was a coalition of various activist groups.

What angered me more, however, was just how pseudoliberal and PC the whole event was. If, for example, I wanted to debate a 9/11 conspiracy believer with real, technical facts, everyone else would rally in support of that 9/11er and feed me that "don't believe the government because it was G.W Bush" line. I felt like I couldn't speak my mind freely unless I agreed with everyone there no matter what. But, even this wasn't what ticked me off.

What ticked me off was what happened just before I left. My friend Jake and I went to their "general assembly" meeting where they were discussing, basically, where they wanted to take this protest. It was their where I became most disgusted: all these various activist groups were fighting to control the message of the protest in their own interest, and ignoring the original point of the protest. There they all sat, bickering amongst each other in an exercise of absolute democracy (as the protesters were voting on every damn thing with no real leadership) and nobody even getting close to a plurallity on any item because the entire crowd was completely fractured. I watched this for two hours, and for those two hours, they couldn't even come up with a consensus on the nonsensical topic at hand: a vote on whether or not to vote on the voting standards for a vote they were going to hold on what the actual message of the protest should be. Disgusted, I left.

On the LRT ride home, though, I had a thought: that this is the core of the major ills of RationalWiki itself: that people would rather divide amongst themselves and find ways to turn a debate into an "us vs. them" debate when it should really be an "us and them versus the cranks and nutters" debate. Where we can't even come up with standards on how to vote and, when we do, there's always some naysayer who LANCB just because Fall down didn't get to vote.

I guess my point with this tirade is that the major causes of HCM and drama on RationalWiki, when boiled down to the core, are things that, in every other circumstance, seem so trivial and stupid. SHould the debate really be Anti-CPers vs. Post-CPers, or it this just a distraction? I don't care much for or about Conservapedia, but I am not going to do or not do something just because the CP crowd might or might not. It's this sort of division that always seems to plague those on my side of the argument, and I think that, for the first time ever, I will vow to do my best to stop this sort of division to the best of my abilities. Punky McPunkersen 08:10, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hooray for unity! But I think the problem may stem from the fact that people think Democracy is "everyone gets a say", when it's more accurately described as "tyranny of the majority". When you get that subtle difference, you can make some progress. The way I'd rather see RW led is by example, as pretty much every other skeptical website does. The "leaders" (the ones with the right to close discussions, ban people and tell people that they're idiots) should be expected to contribute in ways above and beyond the regular user. It's a rights and responsibility thing. So if you can wield the banhammer we expect something back; maintain the server, keep the categories in check, sort out templates, publish content, publicise the site. It's like everyone wants to be in authority but very few want to put in the work to pay for it. Blue has put a good whack of effort into sorting out votes and community standards over the past few weeks but the two main problems are that 1) it'll be for nothing if the baseline attitude doesn't switch to match it and 2) it's still built on the system that has shown that we couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Armondikov 10:53, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem with RationalWiki is that, any time there is an attempt to change the policy from rule by mob, some jackass comes out of the saloon bar and throws a fit. Hopefully, however, Blue's recent attempts to establish actual voting guidelines actually comes to fruition. It's be a big step in reforming the current issues with the Wiki. Conficker 11:13, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I felt like I couldn't speak my mind freely unless I agreed with everyone there no matter what. Dude, this sort of shit has been really riling me up recently. Here in NZ it's sort of "cool" to be anti-establishment, anti-government etc etc. I am fairly libertarian in my beliefs and certainly ain't no liberal so I find myself at odds with some of these far-left types even though our politics do in fact intertwine in certain areas. So, for example, a far leftist will take the position that the current (center-right) government should be ashamed of itself for supporting the war on terror. I will point out that the current government is bringing NZ troops home and the involvement in Afghanistan was in fact inherited from the previous government - which was the left-leaning party. So your criticism is misguided. Doing this though opens myself up to some fairly extreme abuse and claims that I am a fascist and want to be the prime ministers "boyfriend" (no shit...someone actually said that). The left have a lot to answer for. At least the tea party, for what is worth, could form a coherent, if slightly misspelled, message. Ace McWicked 21:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Even the Tea Partiers are divided on the "99%er" issue of the fact that America's wealth is extremely concentrated. Much as I dispise the teabaggers, I also know that they are just as suspicious of the corporations as they are of the government. I went back to OccupyMN today, in fact, and found that (during the day at least) there is a grand coalition of supporters of the Occupy movement ranging from Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann supporters to union workers to single mothers, etc., etc., etc. Punky McPunkersen 06:41, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a sort of all-or-nothing effect happening. Even disagreeing on a mere 10% of opinion is enough to make you a threat to the group mentality, people seem more likely to clash over differences than support each other over commonalities. In short, die heretic! Armondikov 10:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Playpen
Occupy Wall Street is for newfags--Brxbrx 11:25, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I wish I could view that. Really, I do. But see, the thing is, I have set my firewall to block Encyclopedia Dramatica because, well, I can't stand sites like that; places which exemplify everything I fucking hate about everyone and everything that's from my generation. They all remind me of that day back in 11th grade where I realized I was the only one in my Social Studies class who knew, just days after he was at the UN making a bullshit case for invading Iraq, that Colin Powell was the current (at the time) Secretary of State. Punky McPunkersen 12:36, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * ? I knew that too--68.230.64.75 14:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's what Goonie's trying to say, albeit in his usually polite and circumspect manner: go choke on a bag of dicks and die. Nutty Roux 03:26, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Basically, what Nutty said is what my intention was. Punky McPunkersen 14:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow. A link to ED gets you that riled up, huh?  You have issues.  --Brxbrx 20:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not ED your circle jerk anymore. Ace McWicked 03:38, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes? Did someone call? This is not your circle jerk anymore 12:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

What trickery is this?
Cox blocked RW for several minutes a little while ago. Anyone got any idea why? TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 23:52, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have Cox. RW works fine for me.--Brxbrx 01:33, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say I don't know, because I don't have Cox, but people might misconstrue what I was intending to say. Punky McPunkersen 01:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * A what? TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 01:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I HAS COX. FEAR ME FOR I HAVE THE PACKAGE.--만두 01:53, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

It happened again. Works on my cell, but not on the lappy. Effin weird. TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 23:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Just me?
Or is RW going a little slow recently? Pages seem to load fine but the more dynamic parts like viewing diffs and loading up RC are painful. Armondikov 10:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I can never tell if it's RW or the shit network that my company provides but, yes, one seems to need the patience of Job to edit nowadays. Bad Faith 10:53, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Really effing slow. TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 11:59, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW, can I be demoted enough to avoid that sums thingy. I couldn't subtract 8 from 75 earlier which was plain embarrassing. Thanks. Bad Faith 13:03, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Try it now. TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 13:05, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Tis a little better now. May have just been backing up or something. Armondikov 17:01, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Five-Man Band
We need to do this. Armondikov 19:39, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Nominations? TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 20:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ಠ_ಠ Do not bring TVTropes to RWW.  My wrath shall fall with all the fury of a thousand "Delete" keys.   22:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Indulge the guiltiest of pleasures... Armondikov 00:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Blue was marked as The Chick. ADK is the Lancer. Nx is the Smart guy. Goonie's the Hero. Bob M is definitely the Big guy. . TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 00:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * OH NOOOO YOU LINKED TO IT YOU LINKED TO IT Liveware Problem 04:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Need to do what? Pick five users at random & pretend they're some sort of gang when they're actually not? That sounds worse than the RW Star Wars casting. W easeLiciouS B ite M e 19:09, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * God that was awful, especially as no one put me into it. Liveware Problem 19:27, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course, you'd make a brilliant Chewy. Armondikov 01:48, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No no, the saloon keeper in the holiday special! TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 01:52, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Article tone question
Since I don't know were to put this, I'll ask it here. What is the tone for articles here? While most seem rather positive, others such as P-Foster, SusanG, and Ty seem predominantly negative. Is there a set tone? Or is it ad-hoc? Mbwun 04:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've found "don't be evil" to be guidance enough. It is tempting to write a hatchet job on the bloke who deleted your article or called you a dick, but coming here to whine about it generally makes the person angrier. If you're going to write a negative article, you better have the diffs to back it up, see UncleHo for an example. And even then expect heavy flaming. Better to be nice. TyrannisAn iron, yet caring fist 04:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll remember that next time I can be arsed to write something and the wiki is up at the same time. Mbwun 04:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)