User talk:GrammarCommie/Archive6

Sorry if I overstepped
I just can’t stand pedophiles and I didn’t think calling him a piece of shit would be a bad thing after what he got caught doing. 71.208.110.67 (talk) 19:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Tisane isn't worth the effort. Really, he isn't. 19:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * True. But are any jackasses worth any effort? 71.208.x.x (talk) 19:46, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Most of them aren't, in my opinion at least. Then again I do get mad at people when they fail to understand certain things, so I'm not exactly a beacon of virtue. 19:50, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Regarding open proxies
I don’t see why it’s a bad idea to block them for a few years, especially seeing as how we have an automated system to infinitly block them. Sievert 81 (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The automated system blocks account, not IPs. Also, since this is an active vandal and not a shady ad bot, they'll just jump proxies. 00:26, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean the DNSBL. Why keep open proxies unblocked though? If they are banned on the site, why not ban them? Sievert 81 (talk) 00:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It's just not worth the effort to ban the IPs for that long. Especially since they're probably spoofed with an IP harvesting program... 01:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Unless they're super-duper annoying, we rarely ban IPs for more than pi days- and even then, we have a policy against blocking them for any longer than pi months. -- Goatspeed. 01:09, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The MediaWiki software RW uses bans Tor-based proxies. — Oxyaena Harass  09:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Pissing you off
Just out of curiosity, would it help if we practiced staying calm when someone does something to piss you off? I've learned to focus a bit on keeping calm, but it's not something that's natural to me (and probably not natural for everyone). For example, I ask you your favorite dinosaur, you say Triceratops. Not a bad choice, it's pretty badass and iconic. I say my favorite dinosaur is the Tiger. No, not some new or obscure dinosaur call the Tigersaur, just the Tiger, because RAWR. Your Triceratops can't RAWR, can it now? You point out that Tigers are not dinosaurs (obviously), I stubbornly refuse, and you focus on remaining calm. That sort of thing. CoryUsar (talk) 15:34, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

The Brittany Dier Venti page
I deleted the draft page at the same time that you deleted the mainspace page. You can decide whether it's good enough for mainspace. It needs work, but I don't care enough about YouTube stars to decide. Bongolian (talk) 03:48, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I restored the draft and left a (hopefully) helpful note for the author on their talk page. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 03:51, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks! Bongolian (talk) 03:54, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Fascism
So I’m kinda curious, you seem like a person who knows Facts and Logic. So I was wondering how you personally would define fascism? I’ve heard so many different definitions and variations and I kinda have a loose idea, but you seem to know a bunch about this stuff so yeah. If you’re all g with that, I’d love to hear it thoughts! 22:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * (also pls don’t feel pressured to answer if ur not up for it, feel free to delete this if you’re not comfortable with it. Just wanted to make that extra clear!) 22:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I define fascism as a modernist (pseudo)ideology which seeks to curb the allowances of capitalism in order to (re)create a (supposed) prelapsarian golden age. I have a few more detailed definitions but that's the one I feel is both concise and covers most ideologies that we're pretty sure are fascist. 23:44, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Magda Marble
As you deleted the user page, can you delete my talk page comment (I expect such vague witticisms and comments to be ephemeral.) Anna Livia (talk) 15:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Texas and climate change
Hey GC, I read that you're from Texas, how are you holding-up over there? I can't even begin to imagine what that must be like. I hope you're alright. Leucippus Talk 14:47, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I've been lucky. We've only lost power a few times and we only lost water once. Other people are much worse off. 15:21, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you're ok. It must be truly awful for the homeless. It doesn't help either, when you have that cunt Ted Cruz abandoning your state, and then apologising by saying "obviously it was a mistake." A MISTAKE! Really?! You just aCcIdently booked a holiday during this nightmare!! Fucking cunt!! The callousness of these worthless pricks is unbelievable. Fortunately, where I live, we rarely if-ever, get snow; biggest problem we have is flooding. Leucippus Talk 15:48, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a shame we couldn't "quarantine" him for two weeks because he had traveled out of the country. If his detention center doesn't have heat, power or water, well, he'll just have to tough it out like everyone else.  15:59, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Speaking of detention centers... ICE is forcing detainees to endure hellish conditions, including subzero temperatures and a lack of fresh water. Please harass your local representatives to abolish ICE. 16:06, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * You know, I used to view ICE as doing one of those "evil, but necessary" jobs, but they seem to enjoy the "evil" portion a bit too much even for my tastes. And I'm the biggest prick here!  The org didn't exist 20 years ago, I'm starting to think that maybe we could scrap the entire department and just use the systems we had in place before ICE...  19:03, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Happy to know you're fine, GC. I'm sorry about that fleeing luxury Cruz ship. Hope it crashes into ICE and goes down. 04:27, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Your political views
A tankie that lives in Texas? How unheard of. Just kidding, I know you aren't actually a commie. If you don't want to, don't answer. Are you a social democrat? A democrat socialist? GeeJayK (talk) 00:37, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I tend to avoid labels since there's always implicit baggage, even if you do your research and know about previous adherents/advocates/speakers/whathaveyou. I'm an anti-capitalist (no surprise given where I live) and I'm left-wing (as opposed to right-wing anti-capitalists, aka fascists.) Other than those positions I tend to favor pragmatic solutions and policies (RealPolitik comes up a lot) without a true ideological goal. On social structures I tend to favor intersectalism as an explanatory model, mainly because that seems to be what the sociological seems to indicate. I am at least to some degree anti-Marxist, viewing Marx's work as at best incomplete in terms of explanatory power. I'm not really big on partisan lines or moral imperatives. You can ask more specific questions for more specific answers. 00:54, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, I really do. Just wait until tomorrow. I'm busy right now. GeeJayK (talk) 01:21, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Sigh...
Once again I try to point out things most parties involved would nominally agree with, and once again performative politics takes precedence over actual thoughtful consideration... 15:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * But the important thing is you are staying relatively calm; you are better that you once were, and can be better still. That matters a whole lot more than people being wrong on the intertube.  15:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I know you're pissed now (indeed, I think you've been pissed at RW for over than a year), but can you please answer me on talk:Socialism? GeeJayK (talk) 15:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Your ping didn't work o that message for some reason so it took me a bit to get around to checking manually. 15:55, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Your anger management problem
I have read a number of your posts. You come across as being very angry.

Why are you so angry? Is it unforgiveness in your life? Are you bitter at life in general? Is it a combination of the two?Traverse (talk) 09:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Kittens


Here you go, choose one. 16:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Yo, how do I get one those nifty "this user supports..." banners
I am not wiki-literate enough to figure this out on my own, sorry to bother you. -- Only Sort of Dumb 22:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * They're in the Userbox list. 22:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Just for the record. Some of them are custom made. You can see how to do one here. GeeJayK (talk) 23:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks y'all -- Only Sort of Dumb 23:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Fuck you all.
Fucking use the collapse template, and if the dipshit troll edit wars bin them. You're too fucking stupid to fucking manage this fucking site. 17:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * PS: You have no clue whether the troll is Mike or not. All you know is that they're a troll. 17:33, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Scream!! (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


 * If you hate us all so much, then why don't you just take a break from our site (if not retire)? It doesn't seem to be having a particularly positive impact on your health. -- Goatspeed. 18:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Oi, fuckhead
This shit would get a BoN an insta-permaban. In the real world, it would result in summary dismissal from any workplace, and permanent barring from any public social space.

There was nothing in the preceding exchange - or indeed, in any conceivable exchange, ever - that could possibly justify that batshit, all-caps meltdown, and you should be thoroughly fucking ashamed of yourself. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Can I just say GC, after you abused your promotion abilities on me and Cory for no reason and have been too soft on certain SB shitposts/off-mission editorializing just because they're leftist (in addition to defending a certain someone who constantly spews bile towards everyone from those who make insensitive, edgy comments like Ace to everyone whose viewpoints differ from hers), this has lost you the last vestiges of your credibility in my eyes. It is exceptionally poor form for RW staff members to be in the business of shouting and cursing at people with their caps-lock keys. I shall anti-endorse you come the next RMF election.


 * And also, I go on hiatus for three days due to schoolwork, and shitstorms like this happen? I swear to Goat, one of these days y'all will give me a stroke. -- Goatspeed. 18:24, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Don't bother, I'll just resign and leave you all to your illiterate delusions. After all, as we all know I've never lost my temper at Oxy or any other leftist editor, nor have I ever disagreed with them. That was sarcasm by the way. Except the parts about resigning and you all being illiterate and delusional. 18:47, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * That's not what I'm trying to say here, but if that's what you like to think -- Goatspeed. 18:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's what I infer from reading what you wrote. If you didn't mean it, you shouldn't have written it. Just to be clear, Oxy can go fuck herself. ALL of you can go fuck yourselves. 18:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You really need to fucking stop. I get you’re having a bad time, but trying to drag everyone else down with you is toxic and unacceptable. Get off the damn internet and do something else. 20:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Fuck off. All of you need to learn when to keep your fucking traps shut. And to not make fucking bad faith accusations, without evidence. So yeah, all of you can go fuck yourselves. Fucking accusing me of fucking preferential treatment of people I've burned bridges with... 20:49, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Considering the shit that you’ve posted the last couple days, the only one here who needs to learn to keep their trap shut is you. 20:51, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Because anger is such a problem.... Oh wait. Accusing someone of giving special treatment to someone else without evidence is bad? Accusing someone of bigotry, while engaging in bigotry is bad? This thing called the fucking tone argument exists and is fucking fallacious as all fuck? Oh... Those things might be worth considering, rather than getting up in arms because I said mean words. Also, I never nuked a community Discord server because I didn't get my way, unlike a certain certain hypocritical swine. Stay the fuck off my talkpage, your garbage is cluttering my email inbox.  20:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ”Mean words” huh? You’re fucking yelling about self harm and suicide to people without any concern as to what anyone else’s relationships to those topics might be. And I’m the bad the guy for telling you to stop. You are stunning me with your lack of self-awareness and lack of self-control. 21:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I haven't mention suicide in the last three days, Mr "nuked community property over far less" I've mentioned an explicit death wish, I've told people to kill me, but I haven't said anything along the lines of "If you don't do what I want I'll kill myself or hurt myself". Go ahead and find where I have. GO! Or get the fuck off my talkpage and fuck right off with your hypocrisy. 21:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You had to get multiple edits of yours deleted for shouting about mutilating yourself and slashing blood and killing yourself or whatever the fuck. You can bring up Discord shit as much as you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that you are totally unrepentant about endangering other people’s mental health. So fuck you, too. 21:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

How to actually resign
I don’t think posting a message on someone’s talk page counts as resigning. From the RMF website:

It’s not very specific, but it’s something. The RMF probably has a rarely checked email address to make it official, you’d need to ping some staff members (preferably ones who are also techs/mods so they can actually remove your staff user right).

Good luck with everything. Christopher (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Fucking take me off the fucking list and be done with it. 20:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Just stop
You're now attacking people who have nothing to do with the original incident, and if you keep this up you will lose the respect of everyone around here. You really need to take my and everyone else's advice and take a break. Plutocow (talk) 21:13, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think this kind of thing will help neither GC nor the Wiki right now, Pluto. GC needs to rest right now. He's an important asset of this community and I'd hate to see him gone. He has this strange ability to shit on people and treat them nicely a couple of day latter. Let's just ignore him for now. GeeJayK (talk) 21:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * READ. DO NOT REPLY. LEAVE ME ALONE!! 21:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

GET. THE. FUCK. OFF. MY. TALKPAGE. ALL OF YOU!
I'm not interested in people trying to settle old petty scores at the fucking moment. Learn some fucking tact! 21:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Alright that's it GC, you've crossed the line
-- Goatspeed. 21:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Well wishes
Hi, GC. I hope you're doing well today. No, this isn't sarcasm, I just wanted to extend my solace to you in whatever it is you might be dealing with at this time. I would also like to apologize for my discourteous "Keep on crying" post on the "Super straight, super gay" topic in the bar. I realize that on political topics we are about as far as we can get from each other, and that I tend not to pull my punches if I'm pissed off at someone, but I hope now that we at least call a truce and leave each other alone. I hope you have a great day and a better week.

18:21, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Bomis Babe Report was a good page
Dunno why you think former mods have the wiki authority to AFD pages on whim 2001:41D0:602:9CC:0:0:0:0 (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Easy, I don't. However, as a Sysop I can and will vaporize pointless trolling and spam. 19:31, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi GC
Since I'm topic-banned, can you add a detail to the Pat Robertson page about his background from a segregationist family? His father was, a Democrat allied with the Byrd Organization who opposed civil rights legislation , even anti-lynching legislation. Just a side note though, the WaPo source isn't entirely accurate, as there weren't that many sources I could find on this topic.

Thanks. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 22:31, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Acamdemic study on the high correlation of the projected growth of Islam in an area and the growth of right-wing nationalism
Professor Eric Kaufmann says about a graph showing the correlation between the projected growth of the Muslim propulation and the rise of right-wing nationalism in a country: "Figure 1 shows an important relationship between projected Muslim population share in 2030 and support for the populist right across 16 countries in Western Europe. Having worked with IIASA World Population Program researchers who generated cohort-component projections of Europe’s Muslim population for Pew in 2011, I am confident their projections are the most accurate and rigorous available. I put this together with election and polling data for the main West European populist right parties using the highest vote share or polling result I could find. Note the striking 78 percent correlation (R2 of .61) between projected Muslim share in 2030, a measure of both the level and rate of change of the Muslim population, and the best national result each country’s populist right has attained."

Samuel P. Huntington's thesis on the The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order keeps getting vindicated.Rabesma6739 (talk) 15:27, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Ken, you're a hack and an idiot. Firstly, that's a blog post by the primary author of the study, not the research papers themselves. As the conservative Science YouTuber Potholer54 would point out, blogs are not studies, nor are they as good as studies. Secondly, it undermines your position. The author points out the far-right parties and groups are actively pushing the idea that Muslim migrants and native Europeans are "incompatible". The blog author goes on to point out, repeatably, that such nonsense claims are harmful to the social fabric and the culture, that the far-right's misinformation must be countered more effectively.  16:03, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Question
So from your understanding, how long would my topic ban last for? UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 03:13, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know. 13:11, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Your topic ban lasts indefinitely, or until you successfully appeal it. Christopher (talk) 13:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 19:04, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Please restore Draft:Red Eagle Politics
Cosmikdebris shouldn't have deleted it. Unclescrooge (talk) 19:44, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Why bother GC in particular with this? I’ve restored it. As you’re vandal binned I recommend you make heavy use of the preview button. Christopher (talk) 19:54, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Huh? 21:43, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Please help expand Draft:Red Eagle Politics
It's very important!!! And I think you said you read his blog??? Unclescrooge (talk) 23:31, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I read his blog. It was boring. hat exactly do expect me to do with the article? 01:30, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Here's his Twitter page which often contains the type of stuff this wiki is supposed to keep track of. If you also see some of his YouTube videos (I've seen some of them before), maybe you can add some substantial content related to his anti-immigration rhetoric, dogwhistles, ignorance of history, etc.??? I just really think this site should focus more on current right-wing populism and its increasing relevance. Thanks!!!!! Unclescrooge (talk) 01:36, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The relevance of Neo-fascism is currently in flux, with some countries moving further right with others slowing or even stopping their rightward shift. Also, I don't get why you compulsively avoid calling these people fascists. That's their ideology. Though to be technical, they're neo-fascists who trend towards Neo-nazism, but that's really more of a "one brand of bullshit are they using" kind of technicality. Core belief-wise, they're the same as their ideological predecessors. 01:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

to: GrammarCommie: A response
[https://conservapedia.com/Essay:_Secular_leftist_gentlemen,_I_am_not_anti-immigration._And_you_have_yet_to_show_that_I_am! Essay: Secular leftist gentlemen, I am not anti-immigration. And you have yet to show that I am!]. Sojourner (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Ken, two essays to respond to one taunt? Have I stuck a nerve? 01:52, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh my gods I'm laughing so hard... Neither of them explains whether you think Friedman was commie or not... 02:03, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I see that math and/or counting is not your forte. Liberaltears created the second essay. Of course, given that I created one essay, that means you failed to strike a nerve - again!


 * Milton Freedman was born 100+ years ago by immigrant parents in the USA. I hope you are not saying labor conditions in terms of labor demand (skills wanted, etc.) are the same now as I addressed this in my essay. In addition, the Jews don't have a longstanding problem of a significant portion of their population engaging in terrorism which makes them very different from the Muslim immigrants that leftists/liberals brought in the Western World.


 * Remember, most Germans were not Nazis, but enough of them were to cause big problems in the world. The same applies to violent Muslims within various Muslim populations. Some Muslim countries have significant problems of terrorism in their countries. Iran has a lot of Muslim terrorists, but Jordon has fewer Muslim terrorists per capita for example. Johnny B. Good (talk) 02:36, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I got you to flip your lid and now I'm bored with you Ken, shoo.  04:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, I can read the page history Ken. You're the only one that edited both of those essays, and I have the archived links to prove it. 04:10, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Transfer of Arabs or Jews
The idea to cleanse Israel of its Jews have been promoted by Arab leaders since the 1940s. Including by Ahmad Shukairy in the 1950s, before he was booted out of U.N. for saluting far right Neo Nazi gang. [https://www.jta.org/1962/12/03/archive/recall-of-arab-delegate-from-u-n-is-sought-saluted-tacuara Recall of Arab Delegate From UN is Sought. Saluted Tacuara. JTA, December 3, 1962] Then he called for genocide (verbatim: "non of them will survive") in 1967. J. Black: Introduction to Global Military History: 1775 to the Present Day, 2006, p.220 PA "moderate" leader Mahmoud Abbas said in 2013 as reported by  Reuters that he does not want a single Israeli on future Palestine state. [https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE96T00920130730 Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state. Reuters, July 29, 2013]
 * Fair point, but could you not argue that separating the two people is best? Harry Potter (talk) 11:31, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That was an old post that hasn't been properly archived and was made by someone trying to justify Israel's role in the Israel-Palestine unrest and place the blame solely on Palestine. Needless to say, I wasn't a fan. I'm still not a fan. 12:04, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thanks for that. :) Harry Potter (talk) 12:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Why are you engaging in vote fraud????
You removed this discussion which included my votes in favor of banning Marquee Moon. Unclescrooge (talk) 23:39, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Coop has been archived and, as per the rules, is now over. 00:00, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

User:Starving artist
Would you be able to explain why you deleted this page please? Also how is this user a troll? Thanks. Harry Potter (talk) 13:13, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Because it's creationist bullshit? You can read it if you want. 14:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

People trolling your talk page
I'm sorry you've ended up with your talk page being trolled. All I ask, is that if I have stupidly missed your point, that you take a couple deep breaths and just explain why I so seriously misread or misunderstood something without the cursing and sparks. Could we try that? Shabi DOO  23:54, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The attempted clarification was unclear and in my opinion unnecessary. It also seemed to create the very problem it sought to avoid, i.e. conflating the Gale5050 case with my comment about the troll(s). 00:23, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. I will be more vigilant in the future with reading your text Grammar. But could we try a deep breath next time? Shabi  DOO  00:34, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I have a habit of swearing very casually. This has resulted in my linguistic patterns being very dependent on vocal tone Due to the limitations of the text medium this may get lost in translation, as it were.   02:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit reverted
Hi, may I ask why my edit on Progressive Christianity was reverted? I’m new here and I’m a bit confused on why it was reverted. &mdash; Unsigned, by: NylaTheWolf / talk / contribs
 * It seems to be a distinction without a difference. 11:45, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * True, I just felt that “quote mine” gives a scornful rhetoric, which I felt wasn’t really necessary since progressive Christians would be using the Bible to support environmentalism. I felt like a snarky tone is completely fair when describing fundamentalists, but I felt it was weird to use that same rhetoric for progressive Christians who are supporting a good cause. --NylaTheWolf (talk) 20:45, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Motivations don't really matter here. If someone takes a quote out of context, that's quote mining. 20:53, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, haha. --NylaTheWolf (talk) 21:58, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Saloon Illiberals
Breathe. I think BNL is baiting you. I believe that in that game, the only winning move is not to play. Regards, Dave Wise 2 (talk) 18:57, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You been watching “the Wire” Dave? Remember “You come at the king, you best not miss.”  Leucippus Talk 19:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Nope, "War Games".
 * Ah, rat pack. Ferris Bueller. You really are some councillor, huh? Leucippus Talk 19:39, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Sigh...
I'm getting tired of trying to manage all of you... 20:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You don't need to focus on this wiki so much, GC. Your own mental health and personal wellbeing takes priority. — Oxyaena Harass  14:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Try not to be a asshole
Not gonna lie, but being an asshole and 'onemanupship' isn't gonna help you especially the communist symbolism which is a sign of someone who is into authoritarianism. &mdash; Unsigned, by: SixtyNine / talk / contribs
 * The communist symbolism is just a play on the "grammar Nazi" terminology but people generally miss that to be fair (mine isn't politically affiliated, it's a referall to lefthandedness). As for the behavior, it's.... Well the mood swings are intense and I'm still hoping GC can stay away if he gets out of control. 04:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I'm an asshole, deal with it. Unlike other dipshits I'm both aware and honest about that fact. Secondly, my sig is edgy humor, duh. I'm actually critical of communist theory and incredibly critical of Marx-leninists and Maoists. And thirdly, how much have you actually read on the subject of leftwing ideologies? I don't mean opinion pieces or propaganda by the way, but history, philosophy and political theory. How much have you read, to able to tell me what is going on in my own head? 12:02, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * To be honest not much, you probably know far more than I know. I, too am quite anti-Communist. I wasn't trying to say that you were a Communist, I was just saying placing Communist symbolism on your profile looks really negative similar if you placed Nazi symbolism. And, no offense, but being an asshole isn't a virtue you want to keep. &mdash; Unsigned, by: SixtyNine / talk / contribs

Punishment
Here is a formal punishment for you.

Yes, I have stepped out of bounds by doing this without a proper vote from the community. Feel free to slap me back. Or not. 17:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Fish me harder... 20:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 20:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 20:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Nah no
I told you to not use the r word in a block. Maybe you didn't see in the block log. But that sort of "I'd rather self-harm than be friends with you" is not acceptable no matter how much you believe your opponents are intellectually dishonest. You may unblock yourself but this is not healthy for you, nor is it healthy for anyone else, I warn you. 04:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Really? We're just going to ignore the dishonesty, strawmanning, and open examples of Dunning-Kruger to get mad at me for using a slur? Do you realize how disgustingly shallow that is? Can you even tell me why using slurs is wrong? 04:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Literally no problem with the word retarded. Stop policing GC for such a silly reason. 04:28, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Can I say that as the "victim" of the r-word, I really don't care about generic insults? It's hard to insult me with the r-word when I have the kinds of letters after my name that would intimidate most PhD students.  04:30, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You shouldn’t be any more insulted than if he’d called you an idiot. It’s a generic insult, and people need to stop pretending like it’s anything more. 04:32, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a slur, Duce, don't defend slurs in any context. People do agree it's a slur, hence its use is usually frowned upon if not banworthy in many other communities including our own Discord server. When people tell you to stop, you respect that.
 * Additionally while these former debate tactics poison discourse, your approach only escalates and poisons it further. All your points are obfuscated by use of slurs, graphic imagery, and whatnot and prompts people to double down. I am also harmed by reading your posts and I rather not engage even while you constantly gripe about lack of engagement by others. Why should I insert myself in toxic discourse and be potentially subject to it? As irritating as it is to debate poor arguments, I don't really care about your points any more becuase you're more than willing to invoke self harm and you realize it's extremely sensitive and you are hitting onlookers lashing out like this. Considering your previous remarks about suicide and self harm, I blocked you primarily your own good not because I want to look like I cover bad faith for civility sake. 04:37, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If that is so then why am I the only one receiving punishment? Perhaps you dislike my caustic tone more than you dislike their insincerity? 11:36, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * As overzealous as Oxy could be with her ableism critiques, the use of the word "retard" is one that should be, and IS, easily avoided. There are so many ways you can express how ridiculous someone is being without resorting to labels like retard. Resistance to not using the harshest ableist slurs is natural, and it isn't easy changing one's habits, but it is over all a GOOD thing. Shabi  DOO  11:53, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think your missing something in your critique here. I generally don't use slurs outside of discussions about them. The fact that I used a slur as a direct insult, a slur that I acknowledge as a slur, should itself say something about how fed up I am with the constant dishonesty and insincerity in the saloon. 11:57, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

For future reference, this is the comment in question, GrammarCommie also blocked and desysopped a number of users. Christopher (talk) 12:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah. But replace that with any other slur that is more popularly accepted as harmful and it doesn't look as good. "I could act like a faggot" wouldn't be palatable, even if you weren't directly calling someone a fag. It's the same with retard. If it is easily avoidable, then consider not using the term. Shabi  DOO  13:12, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not buying you defending your objectionable language by merely resorting to accusing me of tone policing and punishing you with zero consideration of harmful effects of your words just because other people frustrate you, and I don't appreciate being lashed at just because I took more immediate offense at your words. This isn't an excuse for you to act verbally abusive. I could say things like this argument is worse than Holocaust, my opponents are worse than slaveholders, and I'd rather be in gulag than be friends with you, people should kill themselves, it's the same sort of violent unacceptable responses that further poisons the discourse and additionally weaken whatever crucial points you are also trying to do. If someone fails to understand the points, try better approaches than all caps or saying you'd self harm. 14:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I didn't say I'd self harm. I said I'd rather do X than Y. 15:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

One of my Pointless Polls...

Should we remove "the R-Word" from our lexicon? It's a hateful word, and the r-word and all variants should be eliminated entirely from our lexicon It certainly could be reduced, and shouldn't be used to describe/insult those with actual developmental disabilities, but should still be acceptable depending on context I'm against the excessive use of all slurs and cursewords, because much like your mother, they've lost a lot of appeal from overuse There's no point in fighting the euphemism treadmill, just leave it as is, lest we start calling each other "differently abled person of size" as the go-to insult What's the point? It's an accurate description of this poll and everyone involved I'm only interested in words that refer to Goats, so this doesn't affect me Please don’t use it if you’re not one of the people that it’s a slur against. It can be upsetting to many of the people who’ve had it directed at them for being disabled or neurodivergent, even if it’s not intended that way.

14:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * We can sit around and debate whether "stupid" is a terribly ableist term, but there really should be little doubt that "retard" is, and I am surprised that a few other users have defended its use and defended you for using it. Keep in mind how defensive people used to get when they were asked not to use terms like "faggot", the n-word or "chink" and ask yourself if you are being similarly defensive about using "retard". Shabi  DOO  15:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I consistently referred to the word as a slur. At no point did I say it was not a slur. You are arguing against a position I do not hold!!! 15:37, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * And I'd again like to point out that while you're all getting upset with me for using a slur (which I fucking keep referring to as a slur!!), you aren't calling out any of the people who repeatedly argued in bad faith. Your reactions suggest that you're more concerned with the appearance of civility than you are with actual reasoned discussion. 15:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Grammar, "they are also being unreasonable" is a ridiculous excuse. Don't use slurs. Why are you using slurs when it is easy not to? It is not about the appearance of civility, it is avoiding using words that are harmful to marginalised people. Again, if you can easily avoid doing that...don't. It is that simple. Shabi  DOO  15:52, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I didn't say their unreasonableness makes the usage of slurs acceptable. I noted your lack of condemnation of them for bad faith argumentation. And how you're applying your condemnation rather selectively. It's perfectly possible for you to condemn me for using slurs while at the same time condemning them for bad faith argumentation. But alas, their talkpages are barren of condemnation and mine is ripe with it, suggesting that you implicitly hold the use of a slur by someone who normally doesn't use slurs as more morally and intellectually reprehensible than their bad faith argumentation. Just as the use of slurs sends an implicit message, so too does selective condemnation... 16:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I didn't follow the discussion. I don't have to. I saw a block and a quote where a long-standing member used the word "retard". I do not need to investigate the discussion (there is no end to disruptive bad faith arguments made every day here). It is irrelevant. Suggesting a user not use harmful slurs should not have to be accompanied by any other action. Just as when a police officer is overly aggressive with a suspect, one need not investigate what the suspect was doing nor condemn their potentially nefarious actions to suggest the officer not be pointlessly agressive? Right? Shabi  DOO  16:35, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've already agreed with this premise. I don't understand why you're still trying hash it out. To extend your analogy, you're ignoring a second abusive officer who's simply more superficially polite. This does not, therefore, mean the first officer is any less culpable. 16:50, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Theres a million ways you can call someone an imbecile that won't need you defending what you said. Is it really worth using a term that draws all eyes on you and look like an insensitive prick insisting everyone is wrong, and everyone misses that you just wanted to let people know that you called someone an idiot the way a dumb child might. Questioning the intelligence of others is less effective when your own laziness, arrogance, stupidity, just plain thoughtlessness result in your own judgement being questioned instead. Use something else if want it land.

And why keep insisting there's nowt wrong with using it when enough people find egregious enough to use some other term of lazy abuse that abuses who you intend to abuse and not backfire on you. Why so attached to a dumb insult that makes the one throwing it around sound dumb with a limited vocabulary?

Is there nothing else that can be used for the same effect and not mark anyone using it as a thoughtless dick? Is dumbfuck not satisfying enough? What about fucking idiot? Stupid twat? Gobshite? Theres an infinite variety of lazy insults you can go with but retard cannot be replaced because why? Reflex or sheer bloody mindedness?AMassiveGay (talk) 19:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Are we done pointlessly berating me after I conceded that I did wrong? Because if not I'm just going to revert further attempts to dogpile me on my talkpage. I KNOW THAT AND HAVE CONCEDED THE POINT!!! 19:28, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Wasn't referring to yourself specifically, more on why people bother defending using or other people's use of it, really digging in and not just here or by yourself. It's self defeating as an insult, and there is no shortage of ways to abuse others. And to be honest I posting via a mobile and on a massive comedown. When I started writing it hadn't really been any conclusion or concession, and kept rephrasing and restarting, and yeh, I'm off my face and could probably have made it more concise and less rambling and more obviously generalized commentary rather and having ago at anyone specific. A case of don't post while drunk but with class a's &mdash; Unsigned, by: AMassiveGay / talk / contribs
 * Sigh... I apologize for snapping at you. I should have stopped and thought about your perspective more. 20:16, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Bongolian (talk) 20:30, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Well actually no you haven't conceded that you did anything wrong. You just admitted that retard is a slur. You asked LGM: "Can you even tell me why using slurs is wrong?", you pointed out that you were angry enough to use a slur, pointed out you usually do not use slurs, complained that others aren't being called out on anything and yes admitted retard is a slur while inferring that I am more interested in superficial civility but not that you did anything wrong. And of course you don't have to. Though it is kind of hard to make much sense out of what your position is. Shabi  DOO  02:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Fine, let me be explicit. I was angry and used slurs. That was wrong of me. Is my position clear now? 04:29, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. Shabi  DOO  17:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Welcome to my world. 17:23, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I know I'm late and I accept your apology above, but still...
-- Goatspeed. 02:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

the talk page
yeah, I went to the talk page of "Totalitarianism", and a user by the name of "Trau" literally says this:

Indeed, "really repressive tyranny" is insufficient to describe totalitarianism. Nearly all of the nations on this list fail to meet the definition of a totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes are motivated by an ideology that provides a simple explanation of the past, present, and future, seek to fundamentally transform society into some kind of utopia, and seek to dominate the minds of citizens. Nearly all of the examples on this list fail to meet these requirements. Francisco Franco, for example, was a conservative who co-opted and then defanged the fascist Falange. Totalitarianism is radical, not conservative. The *Ba'athist regimes in Iraq and Syria can also hardly be called totalitarian—any ideology espoused by Saddam Hussein and the Assads served as window dressing.* I would argue that the only states in modern history which fit the mold are Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, the Soviet Union and some of the Eastern Bloc, Communist China (erroneously referred to as "reformed" in this article despite the fact that Marxism-Leninism remains the regime's operating ideology), and North Korea (which may have transitioned from Stalinism to fascism if one accepts certain descriptions of "Juche"). Imperial Japan possibly fits the definition, but probably does not. Communist states such as Cuba and Vietnam may meet the requirements. I hesitate to identify theocracies as totalitarian regimes because religions are sort of their own category, and theocracies are often conservative rather than radical. Note that conservatism and traditionalism are not the same thing. The Taliban and especially ISIS, which both appeal to tradition and the past (as Hitler and Mussolini did) but seek to transform society with modern ideological innovations—can probably be described as totalitarian movements. I would say that certain religions are themselves inherently totalitarian in character, though, such as Christianity, Islam, and Scientology. there, is that not enough? &mdash; Unsigned, by: 91.151.136.74 / talk
 * I've read the talkpage. A consensus was not reached. This is not the article's talkpage. 12:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have never heard that definition of totalitarianism before. It seems like it is your own idiosyncratic one. Hussein's Iraq was totalitarianist. It demanded obedience from and exerted extreme control over its citizens (not to mention the personality cult). Shabi  DOO  12:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This conversation should be moved to the article's talkpage. 12:50, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Totalitarianism#Origin_of_the_term here ya go. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Lasha2008 / talk / contribs
 * Are you illiterate? What part of "I've read the talkpage. A consensus was not reached. This is not the article's talkpage." do you not understand? 15:55, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Let me put this another way. Either take this to the article's talkpage, or I will revert your comments on my personal talkpage on sight as bad faith trolling. 15:56, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

So let's get this over with then...
How the fuck are you my friend? How's digs/tricks/t'ings/bangs/or whatever you weird fuckers say when asking how someone is. Strangely, as a native NZer, I have dated three different Yanks over here in the last 5 years - ranging from NY, Seattle and Minnesota (and all of German heritage which is also kinda weird...I must have a type though my ex-wife was from South Africa. Maybe I hate NZ women? Who can say?) and I still don't know the common parlance (or if you are even a fucking American for that matter). So basically just tell me how the fuck you are. Quick smart dude...time is money, strap yourself and feel the G's, I require knowledge. And other goddamned nonsense. It's Ace - you know what to expect. Acegodfuckingdamnit 08:31, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm doing ok. I'm finally packing up to move out of Texas and heading for somewhere more urban in Pennsylvania. My social life is as stunted as ever, but in terms of career I'm thinking about maybe getting into political reporting or staffing. 10:56, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This will sound all weird and fucked up given the extreme personal dox harm it could cause but I have both been, and am currently, a freelance journalist under a pseudonym, have a degree in political science and have spent some years working closely with politics here in these rational non-covid isles. Hit me up brother. Perhaps I can help, advise, or tell what you not to do...given my weekend.... Acegodfuckingdamnit 11:53, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I still need to move before I can even consider such pursuits. 20:33, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

I challenge you!
...to a head to head match! My graphics card has been installed, this weekend we shall meet on the field of honor we could both grab a game on sale or get a game the other has, and fight it out. Or co-op. 01:29, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Which game were you thinking of? I don't have a lot of PvP focused games. 02:18, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have a couple co-op games as well, I could probably pick up something cheap. What games do you have?  For multiplayer, I have... Baldur's Gate I/II, Divinity OS2 (I think that's multi?), Factorio, Satisfactory, and umm... that's basically it for online pvp or co-op.  Well, other things like Civilization or Sins of Solar Empire I suppose.   03:55, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll put forward three games for you. Divinity OS 2, The Ascent, and Journey to the Savage Planet. 04:04, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I already have Div OS2 but never did much beyond the first island. Could give it a go as Co-op!  04:08, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Little issue with Jesus myth theory
Ok, we are having an issue with GeeJayK on the talk page. He has been saying he will do an AfD and claimed a "shill gambit" with no evidence regarding the reasons for either. I honestly need a new pair of eyes on the article. Yes, there is a lot of stuff there that could be daughtered out (some advice there would be welcome as I an kind of overwhelmed so to where to even start) but the solution is not to try and nuke the article from orbit.--BruceGrubb (talk) 12:08, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Award
Leucippus Salva veritate 17:04, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Thoughts on communism?
Would love to know. BeardOfZeus (talk) 00:43, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It depends on what you mean by communism. If we're talking USSR style shit, that's doomed to failure. If we're talking Chinese "communism" that seems to be working for them so far, but that might change. If we're talking higher stage communism, i.e. a moneyless, stateless classless society well... things get more complicated. 12:38, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Could you expand on what you wrote? BeardOfZeus (talk) 23:26, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "communism"? I can't give a detailed opinion when the word alone can mean multiple different things depending on who's speaking. 12:37, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Should I replace the word communism with Marxism? Hope that make my question easier to understand. BeardOfZeus (talk) 00:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * As far as Marx was aware, he was not a Marxist.
 * Communism is a very broad category. Includes (besides Marxism) Marxism-Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, Trotskyism, Dengism, North Korea (Juche...I'm not sure how that translates to isms) and a bunch of other factions. Many of said factions fought with each other.
 * Perhaps you should specify which brand of Communism you want explained. 01:25, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well I thought Marxism meant "the work of Marx" like how Darwinism is the "work of Darwin" or Newtonian is the "work of Newton". I thought Marx invented communism or am I wrong here? BeardOfZeus (talk) 01:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are wrong. The first use of the word "Communism" is at least from 1841. Karl Marx was 12-13 back then, so I doubt he had come up with the term. He just wrote a book on it. 01:44, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * And a manifesto obviously. 01:45, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well I meant Marxism in this case and its daughter ideologies like Marxism-Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, Trotskyism, Dengism, Juche etc etc BeardOfZeus (talk) 01:47, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well all of them have different approaches to communism. Just like different schools of capitalism differ from each other. Say Keynesian and Austrian schools. Both of which fall under capitalism. 01:54, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well I'm waiting for GrammarCommies's response BeardOfZeus (talk) 01:59, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * So you want my opinion on 20th century schools of communist thought? Most are stupid. The ones that aren't stupid are limited by their thinkers' time and/or egos. The general end goal might be viable with new advancements in automation, but that's still up the air. The ideologies themselves have mostly run their course though. Marx-Leninism and Stalinism are more or less the same from what I recall.  02:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I have heard automation will make societies more automated due to lack of jobs. What do you think a future utopian society will be like? BeardOfZeus (talk) 03:00, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Marxist-Leninism had several schools of thought. Leon Trotsky had this idea of spreading the Workers' Revolution everywhere to bring about the Communist vision, whereas Stalin was more "Russia first, world later".  Trotsky nearly got himself killed, but Stalin simply allowed him to escape to run around the world screwing Selma Hayek spreading the Revolution and all.  Unfortunately Trotsky had this idea that if he just badmouthed Stalin enough, somehow that wouldn't end with an icepick to Trotsky's head.  Trotsky was wrong.
 * However, Trotsky's more evangelical ideas ended up forming the various Communist parties outside of Russia, including the one in the US. But, due to this universe being one big practical joke, a series of events led to the Trotskyists becoming the Neo-Conservatives within the Republican party.  05:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Me? Oh I don't think there will be a future utopian society. Humanity is going to kill itself and all other life off through its own stupidity and hubris. 12:25, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * BeardOfZeus (talk) 02:35, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Chinese racism
Am I correct that we don't cover the much worse cases of Chinese racism? Ruprecht (talk) 12:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * We seem to be covering it, and I was reverting an edit war. 12:58, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for revert on Talk:Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ
Thanks for the revert on Talk:Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ. Any plans on get the archive tool working again or is that a case no one has an idea on how to fix it? --BruceGrubb (talk) 12:17, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll ask the person running it. 12:34, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

In nomine
GeeJayK (talk) 19:49, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Sockpuppet account
I largely suspected the same, but what made you pull the trigger? 02:50, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The account was named "W235M" and kept obsessing over "stupid wokism" and Carville's punditry. Also the OCD and ignoring of actual questions are trademarks of this person, Ken or not. 04:35, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The account was a declared sockpuppet, to be fair. They did say they abandoned the original account and made the new one. But anyhow, not a big deal. 04:46, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Re: Dutchbag
I'm not quite seeing similarities yet, but why do you think this user and UShistoryanalyzer are the same person? 16:09, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * GC, I think you're correct about Dutchbag's disingenuity, and Andrew5's misuse of fallacies. However, the block of Andrew5 was clearly excessive. Calling into question Dutchbag's intelligence using the word 'retarded' does not help your case since it's indicative of incivility on your part. You can do better without tempering the tone of your criticism. Bongolian (talk) 23:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

q
so what is this wiki in a nutshell152.22.44.26 (talk) 18:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * We are a collection of awesome souls who engage in acts of stupendousness where we are all entirely civil and completely agree with one another about everything. There is also:
 * Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement;
 * Documenting the full range of crank ideas;
 * Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism;
 * Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media.
 * But that is all far less important than stupendousness.
 * Shabi DOO  19:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

So gender is...
...merely a collection of sexist stereotypes. Am I right? Epic Games (talk) 03:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That is incorrect. Gender is a social construct consisting of norms, stereotypes, ideals, and assumptions about how one ought to act. 13:58, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If thats the case, then why do people make such a big deal about it? Its sounds so stifling. I mean 50s feminists were trying to defeat gender when the women gender were expected to remain at home and be with the kids. Epic Games (talk) 00:31, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Some people have an increased awareness of gender due to certain elements of their psychology. For example, gender dysphoria. Others, due to cynical ploys for political power or subscribing to dated norms view this with suspicion and hostility. Gender is only stifling insofar as the conception of the social construct is restrictive. The modern conception of gender did not exist in the 1950s. Becoming more aware of more phenomena made people more aware of the social construct, and thus their conception of it expanded and shifted. 01:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you please expand on what you mean by how the social construct has expanded and shifted? Epic Games (talk) 02:25, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I said the conception of the social construct has expanded and shifted. 04:22, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder if its possible you write very convuluted gogglygook to hide the fact you've got nothing to say. Which says a lot about wokism in general.Epic Games (talk) 04:31, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * So do you not think there's a difference between the world and how we perceive it? 04:46, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I have an answer but you probably wont understand considering your low intellectual level. Epic Games (talk) 04:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to try my best. Go for it. 04:54, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Its off topic to this thread. If you want an answer please either make new tread or explain why your question is on topic. Epic Games (talk) 05:12, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * "I wonder if its possible you write very convuluted gogglygook to hide the fact you've got nothing to say. Which says a lot about wokism in general."
 * It actually says more about you than GC that you're very unwilling to process any sort of information that you don't want to hear. 05:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Lol, I have been very open minded this entire time. I wonder who was it that shutdown my Saloon Bar thread? 😅
 * All I did was ask questions in response to people answers.Epic Games (talk) 05:41, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * And you got the same answers and continued asking the same questions. You're doing the same thing here, asking to be spoonfed answers. Make an effort on your end rather than constantly ask people pull the effort for you and then act obtuse and then accuse them of bullshit. 05:46, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I haven't ask the same question over and over again. Thats complete nonsense. Search up the Socratic method. Again it was you who ended my SB thread prematurely not me because my questions were making you have conclusions you or that other guy didnt like. Epic Games (talk) 07:17, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * the lack of tact and basic good manners/civility displayed combined with your failure to grasp the concept still, leads me to suspect you are a troll and/or dumbfuck. the unearned arrogance is just the icing on the cake. AMassiveGay (talk) 08:54, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * What? That isnt true at all. I have always acted with good manners to everybody here at RationalWiki. Its LeftyGreenMario and her wikipolicing behavior on this site that is problem. She attempying to police language and discussion here on this site. I didnt even want to talk to her, I was talking to GC.
 * And I have finally think I understand what gender is. Epic Games (talk) 09:13, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * And yet reviewing the conversation, here and at the saloon bar, tells a different story.AMassiveGay (talk) 09:26, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you think gender is? 15:03, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

NSFW pictures
Thanks for keeping the vandalism in check. Just be aware that the next time you see an NSFW picture, you should redirect it to File:Blocked commons image.jpg and then apply the most restrictive protections to the NSFW link like I did for this (link is SFW) LongStylus (talk) 19:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Could you explain why you keep reverting my edits on a talkpage?
Its quite rude. MusicOfTheSpheres (talk) 03:12, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As the Community Standards says "users should not delete or change another user's comments on a talk or discussion page" MusicOfTheSpheres (talk) 03:17, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Please be more original in your trolling. 03:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No you are the troll for going aganist Community Standards. I was merely responding to a challenge article. MusicOfTheSpheres (talk) 03:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You might want to read the exceptions to the rules before trying to ruleslawyer with me. 03:25, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * What exception to the rule? Dont lie. MusicOfTheSpheres (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Why would I lie? As for the exceptions, they're in the community standards, in the section you quoted from. 04:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Recent revert
Why? &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:67C:2660:425:18:0:0:40 / talk
 * Because it's a garbage word salad indistinguishable from trolling, all based on bored 12 year old's idiot fantasies. 02:08, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * What is that even supposed to mean? &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:67C:2660:425:18:0:0:40 / talk
 * Exactly what I said. 02:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that Andrew's remarks were nonsense, but I think the collapse might have been a better resort.Ariel31459 (talk) 02:41, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think I should just consider leaving the site. The intellectual level is decreasing and It's not like I have much reason to stick around beyond community or whatever. 02:43, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Listen, I think we need to answer some of these weird opinions some users seem to have. Maybe catch up on the tube for a while. Just don't forget to come back.Ariel31459 (talk) 02:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

GrammarCommie taking disputes too far in the Saloon
Tension at SB between me and GC is nothing new, take a look at my talk page. However, in our recent dispute, I think it's been taken too far. GrammarCommie removed my post, blocked me, was reverted by another IP, who reverted it back, in which yet another user reverted it, and it was reverted back yet again. GrammarCommie has a history of refusing to back down, hell, I was only freed for good from my indefinite block on January 8 when LGM removed their rights for 2 hours. The discussion at RationalWiki:Saloon_bar probably does include me making frivolous points, nonetheless, there were points nonetheless that GC is blatantly dismissing.

I think a formal moderation of this conflict has become necessary. Otherwise this will happen every single time theres a bar discussion where we disagree. (Ohio and Illinois discussion also contains this.) --Andrew5 (talk) 02:48, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Only because you're a dishonest weasel who refuses to retract anything, strawmans others, sealions, tone trolls, and is otherwise indistinguishable from a random troll. 02:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * GrammarCommie, you do realize that you were also rude to Dutchbag before, and even removed his posts before. GC perhaps if you think that you shouldn't engage? --Andrew5 (talk) 02:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Not gonna lie, you are a bit of an asshole. Epic Games (talk) 02:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Two accounts ganging up on me, very odd that... Maybe they're the same person... 02:53, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Proof? Epic Games (talk) 02:54, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Me and Epic Games aren't the same user. This can be seen by his opposition to the Senate Filibuster and my support of it. The reason we are teaming up on you is becaue he's right, you are a bit of an asshole. --Andrew5 (talk) 02:56, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Please see this also. --Andrew5 (talk) 02:57, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to bring your complaints here Andrew. It seemed a lot like you were really trolling GC. Let it go please. You won't like what happens if you persist.Ariel31459 (talk) 03:00, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean anything. It's trivially easy to make sock accounts and have them argue and disagree. That being said, he does come off as less of a whiny self important brat. As for me being an asshole, wow, it's amazing that you figured that out. I only broadcast it on my userpage for literally anyone to see... 03:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

You've literally have no evidence that me and Andrew5 are the same person you are just whinging that people are calling you out for being a jerk. Note: Being proud of being an asshole will not make you friends in life. Epic Games (talk) 03:08, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Weird how you both are obsessed with tone and calling me an asshole, as if the latter does anything. 03:10, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

This can all be accomplished on your respective talk pages. There is literally nothing to moderate. Ariel31459 (talk) 03:13, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * could you move the discussion into GC talkpage? Epic Games (talk) 03:16, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Wow more than one person think your an asshole? How strange? Epic Games (talk) 03:22, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Checks notes. Yeah it is a bit odd when two people both tone police me and call me an asshole at the same time. You know, almost if they were the same person. But hey, I'm sure there's multiple people who ignoring the text on my userpage and never once thought to check it, all concerned with tone, and all on this site. Complete coincidence, surely. 03:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You do know that RW is a collaborative effort right? Saying "Im a asshole" doesnt make you want to work with people. Epic Games (talk) 03:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * And? That doesn't really improve your "case", it just makes you look illiterate. 03:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Your pretty thick if you haven't figure it out yet. Epic Games (talk) 03:41, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This is like ignoring a sign that says "beware of dog" and then complaining about getting bitten. That seems pretty dense to me, don't you think? 03:45, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think either of you are particularly persuasive. Andrew5's points, I don't think they're strong, while GC IMO has a better grasp on the subject but he could've avoided insults and accusations all together and doesn't have to waste time trying to justify said insults and accusations. 03:55, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah you have the same intelligence as a dog. Epic Games (talk) 03:59, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I love how Epic Games is dropping the civility facade and everyone's just fine and dandy with it, because both sides have to have a point... Don't they? 04:01, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * "I'm an asshole" -- GrammarCommie Epic Games (talk) 04:05, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you aren't the dumb one here? You seem really hung up on the fact that I'm an asshole, as if that proves anything. 04:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think Epic Game's little stint about "biological sex versus politics" earlier1 erases what little benefit of doubt I have for this petty concern troll. Take a hike, "Epic Games". 04:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Civility
Me: Is toxic in response to people fantasizing about nuking other human beings.

Other people: Now now, let's have civility.

Brilliant. I'm sure this wiki is led by only the smartest children... 04:03, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Next time just collapse the whole thread. Nuclear war talk is really for people who like the idea. It bothered me too. Ariel31459 (talk) 04:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean, how Ariel handled that dumb response from Andrew was better than yours. 04:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Your thoughts on the Habbermas-Rawls debate?
I can't claim to have anything more than a superficial awareness of the debate (In fact I've only recently started reading up on it). I know that a major theme of the debate is the conflict between Habbermas's and Rawls's conceptions of Political Liberalism. From what I understand so far, Habbermas is endorsing a political theory that is more in line with preserving the integrity of the enlightenment, that is, by taking on board the valid criticisms of the enlightenment, and its conception of rationality, made by the members of the Frankfurt school and the postmodernists. Habbermas's communicative theory of rationality contrasts, if indeed it can be compared, with Rawls's notion of public reason; I question the comparison because Habbermas's aims seem to be more grand than those of Rawls.

On the other hand, the impression I have so far of Rawls's political theory is that it comprises the version of liberalism that is, more or less, found in the UK and the US (one which tolerates pluralism some times to the detriment of progress and more urgently to the detriment of reason.) I find that Rawls's theory tends to border on the idealistic: his conception of political legitimacy (which is directly related to his notion of public reason) i.e. that a government is legitimate just in case all members of the public would agree that its reasonable, seems to me to be a deeply idealistic notion of political legitimacy and the accountability of central authorities---one which isn't borne out even in most western powers (its also quite reminiscent of the problems associated with Hobbes's contract theory).

Again, I'll stress that these are just my initial impressions. You seem to be be well-versed in political science ,and consequently, better placed to make judgments on these topics, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this topic. Leucippus Salva veritate 00:12, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to reading Habbermas or Rawls, though they are on my ever growing list. 00:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not responding sooner, my computer’s been fucking up a lot recently. That’s fine, I doubt my knowledge of Rawls and Habbermas is much better than anyone’s at the moment
 * . “… though they are on my ever growing list”, what you’ve just described is one of the great challenges of modernity (that is, if you will allow me the idiosyncratic pleasure of reading into your point): the ever proliferating scale of our knowledge and the corresponding increasing specialisation this has led to starkly contrasts with our finite capabilities (see this book The Great Endarkenment: Philosophy For An Age Of Hyperspecialization. The temptation in light of this predicament is one of resignation, but I think it’s one of the most important tasks of modernity—to overcome this resignation and to remain motivated. I think Robert Musil has tried to deal with this particular problem of modernity better than any of the other modernists such as Joyce, Proust, or Woolfe, and also better than the 20th century existentialists such as Sartre and Beauvoir or Absurdists like Camus. Musil’s opus “The Man Without Qualities” is particularly concerned with this problem. Leucippus Salva veritate 01:31, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I've read a bit about both, so I'd lean towards Habbermas slightly, but that's on my (second hand) understanding of his project, of which I generally agree in spirit, barring some problem I'm not aware of. 02:12, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Andrew5
Can we just address the fact that the little fascist literally said that laws are more important than morality? Everyone seemed to just gloss over it, but that kind of shit is unacceptable.5.151.22.144 (talk) 21:58, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Firstly, he's not a fascist, he's just dumb. Secondly, I did address it. 21:59, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

What the hell, man?
You took away my sysop for no apparent reason, what gives? Plutocow (talk) 05:06, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * How are you unblocked? I blocked you specifically so you'd stay out of my way while I cleaned up the mess on your talkpage. 05:08, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did you take away my sysop with no rights abuse or going through any procedures? Plutocow (talk) 05:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Your edits were in the way. I rectified that problem. I see zero problem with my actions. 05:12, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * You were removing a talk page comment for no reason, so why shouldn't I have reverted? You don't settle disputes like this by the way. Plutocow (talk) 05:13, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * While you were busy laughing like drunk frat boys, that page was being cluttered with unsigned comments, unsigned comments that none of you were dealing with. Either deal with that, or don't get mad at me when I deal with it. 05:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Why is this an incident that merits removing user rights over. It was obvious that the messages were from the same troll. Plutocow (talk) 05:17, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Firstly, they aren't a troll, they're a moron. Secondly, and far more importantly, when I'm doing the grunt work, any obstacles in my way get dealt with. Period. Don't like it? Then do the grunt work yourself. If you won't do the grunt work yourself, then stay out of the way when someone else is doing so. Now, you've been given the reason for your harsh treatment at my hands, either learn from it, or don't. Either way quit whining that I got rough with you. 05:22, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * How was I an "obstacle"? It was my own talk page anyway. Your actions were far more disruptive than any of mine. Plutocow (talk) 05:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Sigh... Use your head... 09:42, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Removing posts
Can you stop removing my posts because you don’t like them? As AMG said it’s not a crime to be dumb. Andrew5 mobile (talk) 14:50, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

For engaging Andrew
Remember the old adage: Don't feed the troll. -- Techpriest (talk) 22:30, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok. 23:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

RE Bar discussion
If you intend for that to be a dichotomy, it's a false one. The word itself (like all words) is not racist, and while it can be used to express racism, it can also be used to express other things. Your question is like asking, "If you roll 2d6, will your results end in -day or be an even number?" If you want a one-word answer, "potentially". 192․168․1․42 (talk) 13:33, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * So you'd agree that racism is a phenomena that exists independent of intent? 14:07, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * In the sense that the use of race as the basis of differential treatment or judgement can in principle be done without conscious intention to, sure. For example, the plaintiffs' proposal to draw district borders along racial lines in order to produce a racial representation outcome is racist, but they presumably would disagree with that characterization due to using a different definition. Note however that the plaintiffs intended to use race as the basis of differential treatment, so the intent is racist despite the presumed lack of realization. Do you have an intent-independent scenario in mind? 192․168․1․42 (talk) 14:40, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm laying out my reasoning for taking issue with your appeals to motive. Also, what makes you say redistricting along racial lines is racist? If you were to try to fix racial gerrymandering, would that not involve redistricting along racial lines or similar? That reasoning doesn't really hold up outside of a very technical sense. 14:50, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "I'm laying out my reasoning for taking issue with your appeals to motive." You haven't explained why my point regarding motive in the absence of differences in action was incorrect. Were you fishing for a "gotcha"?


 * "what makes you say redistricting along racial lines is racist?" It is (in the case of the plaintiffs' proposal) the use of race as the basis of differential treatment. In this case, membership in voting districts and the derived representation. With the stated goal of race-based representation. Which happens to be at odds with the racial demographics of the state, but that's neither here nor there.


 * "would that not involve redistricting along racial lines or similar?" No. The (proximal) problem with racial gerrymandining is the use of race as the basis of differential treatment. So the solution is to not use race as the basis of districting. As it happens, the current gerrymandering that led to this discussion appears to be partisan rather than racist, so there is no racial gerrymandering problem to solve. One may, of course, hold that partisan gerrymandering is bad, but why that is and how to fix it has been set aside to focus on a racial issue that appears to not in fact exist. And by "a very technical sense" do you mean the actual definitions of words? Those are kind of important. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * ""Why would we need to read their minds?" Because in that case, the difference between something being racist and not being racist is motivation, not observable action." Again, I take issue with this thesis. As you yourself have noted people can be racist without intending to. Also, I resent the accusation of "gotcha" fishing. Whatever else my engagement may be, it has been good faith.
 * To respond to your second and third points, (which fail to understand that both my questions are digging at the same issue), and to address the part of my second question you omitted in your reply, if "racism" is defined as "engaging along racial lines at all" then yes, any policy that attempts to address racist laws, policies, etc would be racist. Now, your position here is malformed. You simply treat "race" as a given category, rather than interrogating it and its history. Doing so reveals the category to be a spurious and, bluntly, illiberal social construct. With that in mind, one could make the case that operating along racial lines at all is "racist". However, even with that in mind I don't see such a position as solid, as it attempts to straight up ignore a phenomena in human societies that has very real affects, which in turn cannot simply be ignored. This means attempts at "race blindness" force one to function as a useful idiot for the perpetuation of racist phenomena. A better approach is to account for racial disparities, and then utilize economic and political leverage to address the issue. Now, I define racism as "policies, laws, social norms, stereotypes etc which perpetuate undue discrimination along racial lines", which I developed after observing the failures of definitions like your own. Failures based on the idea that racism is a moral issue, not a psychological and sociological phenomena. 15:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * "Again, I take issue with this thesis." It's elementary analysis that you still have not actually addressed. To rephrase:
 * 1 In a scenario where a racial group has a very strong partisan skew, districting by race and districting by party would produce (largely) the same observable results.
 * 2 Given the observation of such districting, claiming that the districting is racist requires the assumption that race rather than partisan affilation was used as the basis of the districting, since either would produce the same observalbe result.
 * 3 Given that the districting planner is a partisan organization presumably intending to optimize its advantage in partisan elections, and that this obvious motivation completely explains the observed districting pattern, there does not seem to be any reason to invoke racism as an explanation for the districting. Occam's Razor, null hypothesis, etc.
 * If you disagree with that reasoning, what SPECIFICALLY do you disagree with?


 * "Also, I resent the accusation of "gotcha" fishing." You JUST did it right there. Following a hypothetical acknowledgement of the possibility of racism being independent of intention (but only by way of differeing definitions resulting in believing that actually-racist intentions aren't actually racist - the specific situation with the plaintiffs), you mentioned it in response to the current districting situation as if that had anything to do with it. As if I did not remember precisely what I had noted, and instead would be convinced by a rhetorical "gotcha". And I mentioned gotcha fishing because you had spent the previous exchanges asking loaded questions and claiming that the explanations of how they're loaded wasn't "engaging with" the question.


 * "if "racism" is defined as "engaging along racial lines at all"" Then the heavily-Democratic partisan skew among black Americans is itself racist. As is the prevalence of hair-care products for black Americans in areas where they constitute a large part of the population. Which is why no one who wants to address problems in race relations uses such a definition.


 * "then yes, any policy that attempts to address racist laws, policies, etc would be racist." Still no. Even by that definition, the non-racist thing would be to not "engage along racial lines at all". For example, if applicants of different races have different college admission rates, the non-racist thing to do according to that definition would be to strip racial information from all student files so that racial lines are no longer trackable to engage with. See why that's a terrible definition to use?


 * "You simply treat "race" as a given category, rather than interrogating it and its history." Categories can be defined any way you want. What does "interrogating it and its history" have to do with the question of whether a districting proposal is racist or not? I'm looking for something that can be checked against observations of reality here.


 * "Doing so reveals the category to be a spurious and, bluntly, illiberal social construct." Ah, wrongthink. So therefore we deductively know that there is no territory that corresponds to the map.


 * "a phenomena in human societies that has very real affects" What phenomenon? The ability of humans to sort themselves into groups based on such empirical criteria as outer physical appearance which track the variance of historic population distributions. "Social constructs" are often based on physical reality like that.


 * "This means attempts at "race blindness" force one to function as a useful idiot for the perpetuation of racist phenomena" That's a bold take on Martin Luther King. But then, we have come along way since then. A question though. What definition of racism are you using such that institutionalizing race-based double standards is the way to not perpetuate racist phenomena?


 * "A better approach is to account for racial disparities, and then utilize economic and political leverage to address the issue." Can you give a specific example of what you mean? Because "accounting" and "utilizing" "leverage" aren't actionable policies that can be evaluated for consequences.


 * "I define racism as "policies, laws, social norms, stereotypes etc which perpetuate undue discrimination along racial lines"," So how can a situation be checked for the presence or absence of racism? What discrimination "along racial lines" is "due" and therefore not "racism"? What does "perpetuation" involve?


 * "after observing the failures of definitions like your own" Care to give an example of such a failure? Most such claims of failure that I've encountered are of the form mentioned in the earlier discussion, where someone wants people to regard something as bad without having to make a new argument about why it's bad.


 * "the idea that racism is a moral issue," Your definition does this specifically, via invoking the notion of "undue" discrimination. The definition I posted earlier, "the use of a person's race as the basis of differential judgement or treatment" is morally agnostic and based on behavior (observable) or motivations (inferrable) for identification. That is, it encompasses psychological and sociological phenomena in a way that its presence or absence can be checked without reference to a particular moral system. But at any rate, the common usage of labeling something as "racism" is to identify a way in which it is to be regarded as bad. Moral issues are central to the word's usage, though naturally people subscribe to varying moral systems and mean different things when they use the word. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 09:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Look, if you aren't going to engage honestly we can just cut this off here. 15:19, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you identify a single point in which I did not engage honestly, explain how it fails to engage honestly, and provide a hypothetical response that would have qualified as honest engagement in that situation? 192․168․1․42 (talk) 03:29, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You're accusing me of dishonesty without any evidence of malice. Either you're arguing in bad faith or you're a moron. 03:48, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's try this again. Can you identify a single point where I accused you of dishonesty? As in a quote. Malice and dishonesty are independent of each other, so that bit suggests some sloppy conceptual mapping. You might reread the conversation with that in mind. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 20:07, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * "Malice and dishonesty are independent of each other..." Fuck off. 23:19, 6 March 2022 (UTC)