Talk:Penn & Teller: Bullshit!/Archive1

Help?
Is it okay if I help you out on this sandbox article? You're free to revert my edits with veto (it's your sandbox after all), and I don't mean I'll do a 50k+ symbol edit. For example, right now there's spelling errors I could fix, links I could add or unbreak, and so forth. And maybe just add info on an episode or two. If I don't get a reply in time I may just do an edit, one which you are free to simply revert without drama from me. But I'll wait a little bit for a reply, of course. Thanks in advance! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 23:18, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure :-) The only reason I didn't put it in mainspace is because a half-finished version of this looks a bit silly...It's really just a "draft" version open to contributions. Carpetsmoker (talk) 23:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a great article idea! Hope to see solid references. 02:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Really deserves to be on mainspace now! Only needs some syncing with the existing Penn & Teller article. -- Egil (talk) 10:42, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Carpet has done an outstanding job on this article, truly. But if he'd want it to stay on the drawing board just a little while longer, atleast until the later episodes have had descriptions written, I wouldn't press him on it. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 23:01, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Some episodes just have some random notes filled in; I got distracted and never finished it. So that needs finishing. The rest could do some proofreading as I'm known for making stupid typos. My original plan was to do all episodes and then move it, but that's not likely to happen any time soon as it's a bit more work than I expected. I should spend a few hours doing a cleanup, and then it can probably be moved. This is also why I reverted your ratings RBP; as at least a few of them (like Organic food) seemed a bit dubious to me (organic food is not 100% bullshit). Carpetsmoker (talk) 15:47, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Topics column
Great work on this article so far! I'll be pitching in a lot more before it's "done". Though I just wanted to say that I really think the topics column should've stayed. It was helpful in sorting the vast episode text, and it also helps establish which parts of the episode are established terms/topics on RW. The Experts/Cranks column wasn't really working out, so that I won't contest. But I'd like to suggest that the Topics column should make a comeback in this sandbox, atleast for the time being, so we may evaluate it further. It's your sandbox so you decide of course. But that's my two cents, Sir. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:37, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
 * My reasoning is that it's a lot less work to add those columns later, rather than add (& fill) them now and decide we don't want them after all at a later date ... I'm not really "against" either columns, as such, but adding them later is not that much work compared to actually reviewing the episodes... Carpetsmoker (talk) 14:28, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if using a table in the first place was such a good idea. The first season is now filled up with text, and it's getting rather hard to wade through... Perhaps using different subheaders with some template (which has the rating, topics, notable people) is better? The only thing you lose is the sorting, but maybe we can use a "Bullshit! / Not Bullshit!" subheaders underneath the "Season 1" header, and list the episodes underneath that? Carpetsmoker (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * In fact, as the article has grown under your supervision, I miss the topics columns less and less. I haven't given up on them entirely, but I'm going to wager that they're gone for good unless you or someone else begins to argue for their inclusion. Good call, buddy. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:42, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

So
How much of the episode list had to be copied from Wikipedia and what is the threshold for deciding what isn't actually bullshit?—Ryūlóng (琉竜 ) 14:11, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I used the episode names on Wikipedia as the source for a script to generate an empty table with the episode names & numbers. Not sure why you're asking this or why this matters?


 * There is no "threshold" for deciding what is and isn't bullshit. So far this has been mostly a personal project of me (with contributions from Reverend Black Percy), and no one has contested any of the "ratings", but I would imagine that disagreement over this would be solved like any disagreements over any article: by discussing it on the talkpage ... Is this a hypothetical question? Or do you have a problem with a rating? Carpetsmoker (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * No reason for you to be rude and condescending when posing your question, Ryulong. You can knock that off right away. Anyways, this page is the result of the creative writing of CarpetSmoker - and to a (so far minor) degree, myself. Though, I'm openly announcing plans to do more, having also added "sub-articles" to this show, e.g. writing the article on Roger Leir and also greatly expanding upon on our article on John Hogue, etc. And this entire wiki is about sorting bullshit from non-bullshit. This list is hardly any different. Though as it still stands as a sandbox, Carpetsmoker has the final say on any and all edits up until that point when this page is gloriously released into the wild on the wiki, at which point we follow standard operating procedure and talk page it. I hope this reply was helpful to you. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice work so far on this. It's a show I used to watch casually. --TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 14:31, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, Carpetsmoker is doing Dog's work on this page! Dog speed, old timer. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't necessarily agree with "Carpetsmoker has the final say"; the only reason it's in "my" userspace is because you can't really make draft articles any other way (as far as I know). Carpetsmoker (talk) 17:15, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * A statement that, while gracious of you, still proves the point that you're in a position to grant others equal power over your sandbox. Y'know, userspace. Neat of you, regardless! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 17:17, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Bottled water
A couple of comments on that section: The number of infections caused by tap water vs bottled water you give don't seem to take into account the actual quantity of each used, particularly with regards to not-drink-for-fun sources such as brushing teeth or cooking. So you're making an unfair comparison when pointing out the discrepancy in the numbers. As far as tap water in the UK goes, it once won a blind taste test against all leading brands of bottled water in the UK, so at the very least we're inured to it. There have been other studies looking into sales of bottled water in the UK, and the consensus seems to be that's it's not flavour of smell driving bottled water sales. Coca Cola got egg on their face when their brand of bottled water was found to be just tap water. Oh, apart from when it had added toxic chemicals. Queexchthonic murmurings 13:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, these points are worth considering. While the bottled water segment of the show isn't flawless, it's certainly more correct than is currently argued by the article, methinks. Never mind that brilliant bullshit experiment with the garden hose and the restaurant customers actually making valid points on human psychology. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I loved the 'Finer Things' episode. There's a part of me that wishes that all fancy restaurants are secretly run that way. Queexchthonic murmurings 13:46, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Perhaps I did get slightly carried away here... Feel free to improve if you have the time and inclination, otherwise I'll do it at some point in the future... Its interesting you mention UK tap water by the way, since UK tapwater tastes terrible to me. Carpetsmoker (talk) 12:26, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I've made some changes along these lines. Once valid defence of bottled water is that if you 're on the go and want to get some water to take with you, tap water is not an option. I can't remember if they mentioned that in the programme or not. Queexchthonic murmurings 12:50, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I cut back the entire section as most of it was just pedantic. Carpetsmoker (talk) 02:29, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Maddox and Penn go public
If you haven't done so already or in a while, (re)watch their episode on Old People. When that's done, consider this video that Maddox put up where he flames Bullshit!. But then, his top comment became this - Penn replied and Maddox buried the hatch completely. Here's their whole discussion, Tweets and all (which we can source) - Maddox was pretty blown away by Penn. And I think Penn handled it like a boss. So, an interesting, related story with a sweet ending no less. Totally notable for the article. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 23:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Good catch! I hadn't seen that episode yet. I just watched it and added a section on it. That Maddox guy still comes off as an asshole and is unfunny as hell, but I don't doubt for a moment that his interview was quote-mined. Carpetsmoker (talk) 15:16, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Cranks respond
Cranks respond to the 9/11 episode: "Perhaps Penn and Teller would like to do a show where they melt WTC steel with nothing more than jet fuel: it would be quite the magic trick..." Carpetsmoker (talk) 09:28, 10 January 2016 (UTC)