RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?/Archive38

Doctor Seuss, racist
Don't sound so surprised, it's not news. A quick online search will bring up some delightful drawings of sub-Saharan African and Chinese people. LondonGrump (talk) 22:11, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * From my viewpoint, Dr. Seuss's views on race evolved over time. Most of the racist African imagery came from his 1930s days (Flit advertising etc.) and unfortunately are typical of the time. By WWII, Seuss was both ridiculing the anti-Semitism and racism of Hitler but also had a soft spot for racist Japanese stereotypes (a slightly more understandable feeling I suppose given the usual bruhaha propaganda of war, but still). By the 1950s he was writing anti-discrimination stories like . At any right, I don't think "retiring" a few minor Seuss stories due to outdated racist imagery is a huge deal, and it must be a slow news day when shit like this is making headlines. None of the stories are from Geisel's greatest hits after all, the only one I think was significant in any way was Mulberry Street, mainly because it was his first children's book. Artists withhold republishing works they feel are detrimental in one way or another all the time. (I can probably compile a very long list of bands and book authors and the like that disown back catalog they consider crap for one reason or another; if they have any control over what gets republished, the media in question often never gets reprinted.) If demand arises from adult completionists, I suppose these stories can be revived with a disclaimer (similar to what Warner did for the Looney Tunes Golden Collection and Disney did for the Walt Disney Treasures collection). PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 00:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, why are we sourcing NYPost!??? 01:00, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You might want to ask CorruptUser about that...-Flandres (talk) 01:09, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The source for Seuss is AP, not NYP (that was Lincoln). Last I checked, NYP was still a somewhat respected newspaper, though there are lots of other papers with the same story.  01:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The New York Post has pulled some unbelievable clunkers over the years (ranging from completely screwing up the Boston Marathon bomber ID to actually giving the not credible Giuliani / Hunter Biden laptop story print time) so although they aren't always bad, I tend to avoid them as a rule. At any rate, there is a CNN story with the same information (among many others). The San Francisco Unified School District must not have had much going on in January, I guess, with these COVID-shuttered schools and all. One problem about old stories though is that sometimes the story changes, and The Guardian reported on Feb. 22 that the school district "paused" the plan. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 01:44, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * All this "woke" crap around Dr. Seuss and Abraham Lincoln and Mr. Potato Head is why the social left gets ridiculed from so many corners. This is stupid shit nobody forced anyone to do. 02:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The "Mr. Potato Head" story ended up more being an example of the bullshittery of social media and the often poor quality of modern reporting. The actual story per the Hasbro PR is that they are just rebranding the product line to "better reflect the full line" of Potato Heads. Apparently this was spawned by an upcoming "Create Your Potato Head Family" product with Mr., Mrs., and Baby (the existing Mr. and Mrs. aren't going away). There's kind of a logic to the rebrand, I think... it's certainly not just "wokeness" at work. On the other hand, there is absolutely no issue with mockery of the "woke" San Francisco Unified School District from my viewpoint. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 02:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Plus, I never saw them give Mr Potatohead any genitals. If they did, then you absolutely could buy a Mrs Potatohead doll and help both of them transition to the spud they need to be. 03:34, 3 March 2021 (UTC)


 * @DuceMoosolini, I'm in agreement with Pan here. This seems more like culture war bait designed to rile up conservatives and upset liberals who want to appear reasonable in front of their conservative friends. The coverage of Mr Potato Head's neutering and this, is up there with "Should the BBC ban Rule Britania?" as examples of cheap right-wing media attempts to derail bigger conversations and stoke political tensions. Get ready, it&#39;s... (talk) 15:55, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Trans athletes study
I just took a look at this, and I'm not sure how worthy it is for an entry here:
 * 1) This isn't "a new study", it's a 1 page list of statements that cite other, actual studies/research
 * 2) The person who created this list isn't a scientist or researcher, they're a youtuber who describes themselves on their youtube page as "A law student and aspiring politician"
 * 3) Some of the claims made in the page seem just wrong, again from a quick glance. For example, "WHEREAS multiple studies show that trans women who have gone through testosterone-based puberty and have undergone HRT for a sufficient time can compete with cis women without a disproportionate advantage." cites this as a source, and right there on the first page in the it says that transwomen, even after the one year of testosterone supression therapy recommended by World Athletics, have a 9% faster mean run time than ciswomen, as well as 12% faster after 2 years of "feminising hormones". It also states, interestingly actually, that transmen perform slightly better than cismen (but only in number of situps).

Can anyone with a more science tuned mind take a look at this? I haven't been tuned for reading research papers since I left university 12 years ago damn. X Stickman (talk) 22:31, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]I don’t think anyone else needs to waste their time looking at this, it obviously should never have been a WIGO. The accuracy of the claims it makes are irrelevant, it’s a fucking google doc (here’s a link for anyone who doesn’t want to go digging through the fossil record). I’m surprised decided she’d make adding this bullshit one of her first edits after getting back from a ban. Christopher (talk) 22:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was a bad WIGO attempt. 23:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It says "after two years," what about five years, or ten? Do you realize how gradual HRT is? I see no reason given why the document is wrong. — Oxyaena Harass  04:30, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Wanna split the difference and put it in WIGO Blogs? 06:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's a reasonable compromise. Give me some time, playing a game of Go right now. — Oxyaena Harass  07:02, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

piers morgan and racism
Really not racism that has everyone up in arms about morgans treatment of markle. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * True. She dumped him for Harry and he's been fuming about her ever since. It's not about race. Avida Dollarsher again 14:50, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * the comments that has people complaining to ofcom not about race but to do with mental health and calling her a liar over her saying she had suicidal thoughts. nothing in the linked article suggests racism being a factor either.
 * probably bit more racism in the wider press concerning markle, but even that is secondary to her and harry taking legal action over privacy and press intrusion - the entire reason the couple had 'retired' from being official royalty in the first place. they must love be loving all this kerfuffle. i bet they where worried they might have had to leave markle alone, but with the oprah interview elevating he said/she said family drama above the dogshit royal newscoverage usually is, and pretend that they werent hounding markle the way they hounded diana to her death. interestingly, as editor of notw and the mirror in the lead up up her death, morgan is as guilty as anyone for her demise. its no surprise that markle cut him off as soon as she became involved with harry.


 * honestly royal stories are the fucking worst. they are dogshit below gossip columnists lacking any substance whatsoever. the absolute worst of british tabloid and i kinda feel the oprah thing just plays into their hands AMassiveGay (talk) 15:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

bolivian coupist anez arrested
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56381697 96.241.209.54 (talk) 17:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

"bill that would allow police officers to rape, torture and murder"
The hell is this?--RWRW (talk) 22:40, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how Tuxer reached that conclusion, but to provide context, see Sarah Everard's kidnapping and murder by a serving officer. What Tuxer did is a really bad spin of what went on, though. Tuxer, don't do this. 22:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you and Aloysius the Gaul for fixing that. Oh I'm aware of the context, more so than you might expect. I'm currently living in Bristol and I can still hear police helicopters circling. @Tuxer save that crap for April Fools Day, you're only a couple of weeks premature. --RWRW (talk) 22:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * i feel like it is wort mentioning, if it isnt already immediately obvious, the public response to sarah everard murder isnt really to the alleged murderer being a serving officer. its a dreadful dreadful coincidence, but it isnt a george floyd moment. its more the fact that sexual assaults and/or domestic violence have seen increases since 2014, with recorded rapes doubling, and 1.6 million women experiencing domestic abuse in 2019 but with few attackers facing justice. this is why the heavy handed policing of the vigil provoked ire, and why this new bill pouring more salt into wounds. police cannot apparently ensure the safety of women once the sun goes down, but its protest and demonstrations that require special attention and legislation, with damaging of statues - petty vandalism - incurring sentences of up to ten years, sentencing for rape - a violent crime - starts at half that. we know where this government's priorities are and it isnt concern for our well being.
 * violence against women and tories trying quell any dissent or accountabilty to government are two seperate issues both significant enough to underline here that i feel kind of gets hidden by focusing on (a truely awful) coincidence. AMassiveGay (talk) 23:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the additional information. It was otherwise difficult to get out of that sensationalist headline and incomplete information I had just from reading articles about Sarah Everard. 00:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * the misogynistic violence issue is not something i was aware of being that big a deal until recent events. was only vaguely aware of the murder being a headline, but the strength of feeling about all this was missed by me until the police ballsed up their handling of the vigil. since then i been reading about women scared of going out after dark or walking around alone. even getting a cab home at night doesnt provide peace mind it should since cab driving rapists fuel headlines greater than i would hope is their actual incidence.
 * its a little hard for me to put this in perspective. there isnt any where and hasnt been anytime that i have been made fearful of just going about my day to day business. ive never had any issues about traipsing about at night or early morning. ive always kept odd hours. and ive always strolled about the place with no fear at all. going everywhere. when living in rural parts with no street lighting ive been more mindful of tripping over something in the dark more than sexual assault or what have you.
 * dunno what to think about that. i got asked for diections by a lady a little while ago, on a news years eve i think. i know the area pretty well but was thrown by her question 'is it safe round here?' couldnt really give a good answer to that. i think so. probably. ive never had any problems. im not a woman though. AMassiveGay (talk) 00:47, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Being small and not armed, I tend to just not go out at night, especially unaccompanied. I steal glances every now and then. I generally don't think the neighborhood as unsafe, but my senses are really alert, even in a sleepy middle class suburb. I did one time waited outside a college campus from 9-11 pm because my mom forgot to pick me up, but I felt tension the longer I wait. I do feel a little bit of unease seeing any man out there, regardless of his race, even though I keep telling myself he's just walking and just chilling. I certainly don't have the same vibes for seeing middle ageed Asian women at night compared to men of any race at night. I don't know how you go out at night not thinking about who or what is in the shadows, especially by yourself. I thought this was something that everyone had to keep in mind. 01:13, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

The Sewell Report
It ain't just people from ethnic minorities who think it's shit. Everyone to the liberal centre to the far left thinks it's a steaming pile of gaslighting shit that not only promotes British exceptionalism and draws battle lines for the "culture war" but sets opponents up as anti-British just as Johnson starts his public order "reforms" and conveniently distracts us from the unholy fucking mess the whole country is in. LondonGrump (talk) 19:25, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Wrong aspects in the game industry, and possible solutions
THE BAD ASPECTS

1.Violence and action for the sake of action The fact t that do exist more games involving violence, conflict and destruction, than compromise, negotiation and building, did help on making society intellectually militarized. This conflict mentality did lead to making the social networks in battlefield, taken by rival gangs which fight for turf in a way that mirrors the offline gangs behavior.

2. Excessive immersiveness Games, both online and open world offline ones, evolved to offering growingly more complex and detailed game worlds, filled with secondary missions and parallel minigames that went to take more and more time from the players. This excessive time spent in the virtual world makes gamers stray from the real world, leading to a psychological addiction similar to the alcohol and drugs ones, and in some cases even more damaging. 3. Lack of trust in the gamers Politics of DRM and intellectual property protection treats the gamers and potential delinquents, and not like someone who just wants to have fun with the products paying a just price for then, and using their code to create new things.

4 Psychological suffering by the gaming professionals Many companies forces their employees to work many hours after their expected shifts, causing physical and mental damage to them. Games are made for being fun: they also should be fun for the people who work in their development and distribution.

5. Monopolist and concentrating production logic: The way the industry works perpetuates subordination relationships between developed countries and regions where the game production units are located, and those who consume them. The former concentrate the means of development in a way that ends up generating a vicious circle where the latter are much less likely to be able to compete in a competitive manner, with products from dominant countries and regions controlling almost the entire market.

6. Encouraging of hate groups: The gamer world is known to be a stronghold of several problematic groups, such as incels, MRAs, white supremacists, and other hate groups. Effective measures are not taken to keep these groups under control.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

1. Don't reward violence: Creating games where avoiding violence is rewarded, and using force for no reason is punished or at least strongly discouraged.

2. Avoid excessive immersiveness: Create games whose mini-games and side missions do not divert the player too far from the main mission. Limit immersiveness to well-defined pedagogical and plot-building purposes.

3. Trust the integrity of people: Create open source games, with great possibilities for customization by players who want to create new experiences. Make the DRM policy more flexible when it does not completely end it.

4. Change work practices: Adoption of fair and humane work practices by the industry. Avoid glorifying workaholic behavior and encourage employees to seek to live and work in the healthiest way possible.

5. Balancing the game: Create games that can run on older, less powerful computers, so people get used to technically simple, but well-made games. This will allow poorer people to have access to games of the same quality as the most favored, thus allowing more countries and regions to become game producers.

6. Making games hateful for those who hate others: Stop creating games that encourage machismo, racism, homophobia and other forms of prejudice. The more humanist and inclusive games that are produced, the less reason the extremists will find to identify with them.

Pimlico Academy protests
I took the English flag off for the same reason I corrected the Sewell Report WIGO. I haven't the time to explain the irony of using that flag so let's just say it's not an English thing any more than it's a black thing. It ain't even a London thing. It's an everyone thing. LondonGrump (talk) 08:55, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Theft of Jefferson's Chair
Someone stole Jefferson Davis' chair and threatened to turn it into a toilet unless the United Daughters of the Confederacy celebrate Lee's surrender. Sadly, the monument to treason was recovered intact and without the UDC having to comply. RationalSpanish (talk) 08:24, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

LGB Alliance
Curious as to why these has been downvoted so much. AMassiveGay (talk) 07:42, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hopefully because of people not being happy a transphobic, homophobic and generally evil group is getting charity status. Dendlai (talk) 08:13, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * not sure thats how its supposed to work AMassiveGay (talk) 10:48, 22 April 2021 (UTC)


 * the LGB Alliance is an evil group, the UK is TERF island because of them Crystalbaby (talk) 9:14, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I question that claim. the UK has been fairly TERFy for quite a long time now, way more than under 2 years. E.g. the Maya Forstater started in 2018, Graham Linehan has been doing stuff for many years, Mumsnet has been a transphobic site for ages (nearly all the criticism on the issue in our article seems to be from before LGB Alliance), our Trans-exclusionary radical feminism mentions concern from Guardian columnists in 2018. I'm sure the LGB Alliance has made things worse, solidifying TERFiness and providing a new centralised base to push it. And many of the members have been pushing TERF views long before the formation of the alliance and are probably a significant contributor to the TERF problem in the UK. But blaming an organisation founded in September 2019 for the UK being a TERF island seems flawed to me. BTW FWIW from a personal viewpoint although I strongly dislike the LGB Alliance, if they do meet the requirements in the UK to be a charity I believe they should be recognised as one. On the other hand, downvotes are fairly undefined. I wouldn't and didn't personally downvote that story, but I don't see harm in downvoting it. You can dislike some news while recognising perhaps it had to be that way even if it would be better if it didn't (because the LGB Alliance didn't exist because no one wanted to push such views and no one wanted to provide financial support rather than it being illegal or them being denied charity status because of it). Nil Einne (talk) 01:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, you are right. Systematic transphobia and interpersonal, individual transphobia has been an issue in the UK for decades and even more, sorry as a transwoman I got overly emotional because of how much i hate that group lol. User:Crystalbaby (User talk:Crystalbaby) 11:04PM, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Paywalls
Can people stop posting paywalled Links to stories? That isn't very useful for most of us. Revolverman (talk) 21:45, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Paywalls suck, and we should try to link to articles people can actually access (and doesn't have a meter either); though a lot of cases, it's vanishingly small. In the meantime try investing in internet browser addons/extensions that deal with paywalls 👀 or at least get a way to easily remove cookies. 21:57, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Paywalls should be banned they are not beneficial at all and lots of people are poor. Crystalbaby (talk) 9:19, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * At the very least, use archive.is or archive.org links to paywalled articles. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 13:38, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I find that a more secure browser like Pale Moon, with private windows and the ability to turn off Javascript at will, deals with 95% of these nuisances. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 23:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

In pre-dawn operation, C-60 commandos gun down 13 naxals in Gadchiroli
In pre-dawn operation, C-60 commandos gun down 13 naxals in Gadchiroli &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:59DB:4100:12F:58FC:E868:140C / talk
 * (late) Any more random irrelevant news you want to share, maybe from your favorite sources like Gateway Pundit or Daily Wire, or are you done? 23:56, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Archiving the WIGO after 12 months every month instead of only once at the end of the year
I've been thinking about it. Not sure if it was already suggested or even tried, but I think that maybe we should change how we archive the WIGO. As far as I understand, the WIGO is archive once a year. Problem is, what is news on December is usually far more important during January than what's news on January during December. A WIGO that was posted on January and became irrelevant months ago will remain on the page for many months, while, something that is actually news in late December will be archive within a week. I don't know if Infernobot can do this, or if we need to do this manually, but I do think the current system is dysfunctional. Thoughts? GeeJayK (talk) 16:39, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Makes sense, I’d support that change. Christopher (talk) 17:11, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

£50 notes
alan turing on a 50 is going to e seen by no one but drug dealers. ive never seen a 50 pound note AMassiveGay (talk) 11:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

You can't Tuna Fish, but you can Tuna sensationalized headline
Just gotta say, not a huge fan of the fact that this WIGO is one outlet quoting another outlet quoting another outlet, instead of actually linking the original article.

Which, I should add, includes this section with an important caveat:

To be fair, when Inside Edition sent samples from three Subway locations in Queens out for testing earlier this year, the lab found that the specimens were, indeed, tuna.

Even the plaintiffs have softened their original claims. In a new filing from June, their complaints centered not on whether Subway’s tuna was tuna at all, but whether it was “100% sustainably caught skipjack and yellowfin tuna.”

With all testing, there are major caveats to consider. Once tuna has been cooked, its DNA becomes denatured — meaning that the fish’s characteristic properties have likely been destroyed, making it difficult, if not impossible, to identify.

All of the people I spoke with also questioned why Subway would swap out its tuna.

“I don’t think a sandwich place would intentionally mislabel,” Mr. Rudie from Catalina Offshore Products said. “They’re buying a can of tuna that says ‘tuna.’ If there’s any fraud in this case, it happened at the cannery.”

So. Yeah.ℕoir LeSable (talk) 20:06, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

It just so happens that I have had 2 tuna subs from Subway in the last 3 weeks. Both of them tasted remarkably like... wait for it... tuna. Zontar (talk) 12:55, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Will Brazil manage to do to Bolsonaro what America couldn't do to Trump?
No, the Chamber president Arthur Lira has declared he won't be touching the impeachment proceedings until the current covid parliamentary commission of inquiry is over. In other words, he will delay the process as long as he has an excuse to delay it. I'm staring to think the presidentialist model does not work. 201.95.64.84 (talk) 21:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * While I don't pretend to be an expert on Brazilian politics whatsoever, can you in any way substantiate this assertion? For all I know from what information I do have it seems that he's just trying to first get some old business out of the way. But then again I might be wrong. -- Goatspeed. 20:26, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It is... more complex than that, actually. Most (although not all) Brazilian political parties (remember unlike US, we have a shit ton of them) are catch all parties. Many politicians that support Bolsonaro also supported Michel Temer and, before him, the PT,  and list goes ever on as long as you can trace their political activity. My guess is that they'll support the the impeachment as long as they believe they can profit from it next year. GeeJayK (talk) 21:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * 5 days after I posted that, dipshit Lira doubles down and asserts there is no justification for the impeachment process. Source in portuguese (I found some english sources, but I don't know if they are reputable sources...). 2804:431:C7F2:915C:9CA7:298C:5005:F4EC (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

French climate change denial
The link connects to a story about the spat with Russia over champagne. I would fix it but I don't know what I'm really looking for. Anyone? LondonGrump (talk) 18:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

WTF and what is the point!
it say so in the article, likely to have our national identifiers inclusive of all the uk ie inlcuding northern ireland, which GB did not - scotland, wales, england encompssing the land mass of great britain not ncluding northern ireland. n.ireland is a thorny issue with brexit, the unionist feeling shafted and all with hard borders and custom unions seperating the ni from the rest of the uk by more than just sea. seems a pretty futile gesture, but making a show it like this does say hands off without having to say anything.

or you know, read the article. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:46, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

England lost! Ha!
Long live Italy 🇮🇹! &mdash; Unsigned, by: 1.136.111.197 / talk


 * I was at work during the match and after it finished. One of my European co-workers was very gleefully chanting "Forza Italia" after the match so yeah, that stung a little. Still, the result pisses off all of our football yobs, so I guess every cloud really does have a silver lining. --RWRW (talk) 00:05, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * we lost the match and tournament sure, but we did better than we have than at any time since 1966. Can we consider that really a loss? AMassiveGay (talk) 16:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

About the Cuban protests
A few hours ago I added a WIGO mentioning the protests taking place in Cuba. Problem is, user also added this WIGO on the WIGOCV. Personally, I think it should be in the WIGO World as the protesters are also demanding things that are even more important than vaccines, but I'd like to see what Euromec and the rest of the community thinks before taking any action. GeeJayK (talk) 14:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * probably wigo imho. in the scheme of things, i dont think it matters a great deal. AMassiveGay (talk) 16:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I would be happy if you wish to delete mine, as I only heard about this morning. However, it would be important that there should be a reference to the current pandemic as this has fuelled the protests especially since much of the problem has been a lack of hard currency through a lack of tourists. Euromec (talk) 20:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

calling the pm a liar
you cant call other MPs a liar in the commons. since forever. its a non story. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:16, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * its not like the commons isnt a tirade of playground insults as it is. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I thought the rule was to be very vague about your claims of other PMs? Someone comes in with a red face, disheveled appearance, reeking of gin and all you can say is the person was "tired and emotional", that sort of thing.  18:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * if insinuation is too obvious it probably wont fly. unparliamentary language AMassiveGay (talk) 18:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * also, the MP in question was not suspended. they were ejected from the house. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:38, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That's funny. One of my favorite books of all time is Patters of Democracy, by the Yale professor and former president of the American Political Science Association . Lijphart argues that there are two democratic models: the consensus democracy and the majoritarian democracy (yes, some sort of mobocracy). He adds that "the majoritarian model of democracy is exclusive, competitive, and adversarial, whereas the consensus model is characterized by inclusiveness, bargaining, and compromise". Wanna know what's the other name he gives to the majoritarian model? He calls it "The Westminster Model of Democracy". I would think that something as aggressive as calling the PM a liar would be far more common in UK. GeeJayK (talk) 18:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * its because of it adversarial nature that you cant. you need some standards of civility or its just a free for all. the speaker in this instance is kind of a referee, and its at their discretion. as is mentioned in the above link, johnson got called a liar by mp before with no action taken. different speaker though. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * and misleading parliament is actually quite a serious charge. you cant just throw around accusations of lying AMassiveGay (talk) 19:03, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * even if they are in fact a liar liar pants on fire like johnson AMassiveGay (talk) 19:14, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Florida-man contraption
Never thought I'd see this thing implemented in real life since reading about it in Soviet magazine from 80s. Not sure if the idea originated there or was taken from elsewhere. Arisano (talk) 17:32, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Article suggestion and being confused by the site layout and "how to's"
Hello dear human beings

I am regularly confused by how the page works and can often not find what I am told to look for. In this case, I wanted to suggest an article for the WIGO page but can not find the "put article suggestion here" link that is mentioned in the "how to" anywhere. Maybe I'm just being an idiot, but it's not the first time I'm confused on how the site works and need to ask what I should do.

Anywho, my suggested article: [https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/olympics-medal-table-usa-tokyo-b1895446.html%3famp/ In a typical display of U.S. jingoism (or chauvinism, or exceptionalism pick your term) some U.S. media outlets change how medals are counted at the Olympics in order to see the U.S. at the top of the ranking. ] (Too much sarcasm?) NastyNugget (talk) 05:37, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I guess this article is obsolete and inaccurate now since the U.S. is actually at the top of the ranking for both ways of counting. I'd delete the entire topic but as I said before, I am confused as to how D:

--NastyNugget (talk) 10:01, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

20 years
2 decacdes in afghanistan. 2 fucking decades of nation building and building up it army. nigh on twenty years to prepare.

people will and have already on this site mumble something about land wars in asia while they wash their hands of it all, as if to say 'we did all we could'. we will point to a weak government and rampant corruption. we will say something about learning lessons about forcing regime changes and forcing democracy on people. it was all doomed from the start. thats all fucking dogshit right there.

billions of dollars plowed into the weak and corrupt government installed by the us. corrupt human rights abusing warlords legitimised and empowered by us cash. billions pissed down the drain training an army that did not really exist while us generals were singing the praises of an afghan military that was already stepping up and taking over from nato forces. they could not even guess at how many troops the afghans really had. a fraction of what was claimed turns out. and to say nothing of the human cost.

cap this all off with the doha agreement, 'the agreement for bringing peace to afghanistan', a 'peace' agreement the afghan government had not been privy to. cut with the taliban, it secured peace in afghanistan by the us agreeing to end all airstrikes on them if the taliban promised not to shoot at the us military they got the fuck out of the country as quickly as they good. i assume this achieves peace because the us knew the the afghan military would just roll over for the taliban. afghans military or civilians were not included in the conditions of the agreement and the ceasation of airstrikes meant the taliban could really go ham on them. a veritable peace in our time.

20 years. its a fucking disgrace AMassiveGay (talk) 21:22, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I apologize if I am doing this wrong, as I am not Wiki-inclined. I just want to throw out there that I am a fool, and wonder how many more fools are out there? I am in my thirties and am an American. As a kid I didn’t ask much about the war- it was just heroes kicking bad guy butts. As an adult, I heard the rhetoric; “we’re keeping the Afghanis free” and “we have no business being there”, but I didn’t have much opinion. It just was what it was. I mean, it was going on for very nearly two thirds of my life. Yet when Trump started pursing his lips and wagging his finger last year, claiming we were going to leave, I finally looked into the Afghan war. How complicated! I found myself eventually here at RW. How is it, now, a year later, that I only have dipped my toes into this mire? How many others have no god damn clue what we were doing, what the conflicted interests of the many parties in Afghanistan wanted, of the futility? A nation of fools who don’t even know. 2600:8800:2C05:5300:B1B4:CBD7:F1A7:E188 (talk) 04:17, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Research on Swearing?
How the fuck does someone get paid to research swearing? Granted, it’s interesting for ordinary talk, but how is this interesting outside of that? Leucippus Salva veritate 16:26, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Did you even read the article? Towards the bottom it quotes a professor, saying "This research reinforces the view that swearing plays a part in our conversational repertoire, performs useful functions in everyday life and is an everyday part of conversation for many people. Despite this, it is relatively under-researched precisely because it is considered to be taboo." And right underneath that, the university advertises English language and literature programs that emphasize real-world applications. And even without real-world applications, it is important to document how language changes over time, which I think most linguists can agree on. LongStylus (talk) 06:43, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm more surprised that "bloody" is considered a swear word 165.225.233.83 (talk) 01:52, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Swearing, like language in general, changes over time and keeping tabs on language change is useful for historical linguists; one linguist I know likes to recount about how "shit" was not a taboo word around Victorian times, but "crap" (being slang) was absolutely horrifying because it didn't refer to mundane stuff like manure that was useful for fertilizing your crops. Kntai (talk) 11:32, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * 'Shit' and 'piss' are the core English words, and are sanctified by the King James Bible (which admittedly prefers 'dung'.) I rather dislike the tendency to make Latin medicalisms the 'decent' words.  Always perplexed by the British horror of 'bloody' myself, when Americans do not usually use it as an interjection and on the floor of Congress regularly ('waving the bloody shirt'.) Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 19:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Bloody hasn't been a proper swear in UK for most of my life time. I remember a teacher at primary school cautioned one pupils to note use that word maybe 2 or 3 times, and it was never a 'wash your mouth out with soap' kinda caution. I think even then most of the kids had heard parents effing and blinding and usually incredulous that bloody was a bad word.
 * It's only really the middle-classes that are bothered about swearing. The upper classes all swear like troopers, while the working classes fucking is literally every other word. Cunt is the only swear that shocks and that's on the wane.
 * The only word that shocks and isn't a racial slur I should add. And in UK, it isn't even a gendered slur, which only means theres even less reason for the it's shock value to stick around.
 * Calling someone a cunt will still get you glassed down the pub though. If were meant as fighting talk at least and not just banter.AMassiveGay (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As aside, my mother made me wash my mouth with soap when she caught me swearing. Don't remember what swear it was, but soap does not taste nice. Did teach me to consider when to say fuck and when to just say bloody, and that only grown ups are allowed to swear. My older brother could get away with the odd shit in conversation that I couldn't, and you know when you are properly considered a grown up when you can tell your parents to fuck off with no effect.AMassiveGay (talk) 11:27, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I remember, as a child in the UK in the 70s, when "bloody" was still a word that could rain fire and brimstone down upon you, if you were caught saying it. Now look at us. RoundeTheeHorne (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * its a defence against causing unintentional outrage for those brought up in environments where where casual racism was socially acceptable and keep saying things that they know they cant say no more, but keep saying em from force of habit. classic anglo saxon works for banter and full on abuse without mentioning race, gender, sexual preference. when we are all a bunch of fucking shits and arseholes we'll see the end of prejudice and babys first words will be mother fucker. or civilisation will collapse as screaming expletives at the top of your voice when you stub your toe will no longer be cathartic and the build up of rage means someone has to die if you leave your keys at home and flatmates in the shower so doesnt hear the intercom. better hope who ever is in charge of launching missiles doesnt forget about their cup of tea till its cold or a biscuit is dunked too long and falls into their cuppa. it would be the end of us all, and screaming holy fuck before you are incinerated just wont cut it like it used. honestly though, oblivion wont come quick enough when your last split second of existence is just really frustating. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:41, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Indentured Labour
this is bullshit.

Release On Temporary License ROTOL is a risk-assessed temporary release programme that inmates in open prisons use to gain work experience to help them in their transition back into the community.

it provides training and lines up employment for prisoners about to be released. having jobs makes people less likely to reoffend.

this rehabilitation. thats generally considered a good thing. indentured labour. it is not exploitation. it is not any kind of slavery.

there are staff shortages in the meat industry. prisoners need work experience and training and jobs for when they are released. a problenm caused by covid and brexit is lessened and ex cons get fresh start and maybe not end up back in prison.

this can be ascertained from reading the article, which i suggest, and not just skipping all of that to go straight to the comments section. it should be noted prisoners have to apply for ROTL. they are not marched out in shackles with an overseer cracking a whip.

could people posting wigos please post something reflective of the article referenced and not just a post hyperbolic dogshit because you some how couldnt find anything genuine to shit on brexit and the tories. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's slavery. Tuxer (talk) 09:39, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * how is it slavery exactly? AMassiveGay (talk) 09:41, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * nowhere is it stated prisoners will be forced to work. ROTL are things that prisoners have to apply for. from prison straight to world is a shock to system. these kinds of things ease the transition. provide useful skills. reconnect with friends and family. work experience. a job straight from prison - ex cons dont find work easy, these programmes can be a godsend. there is nothing to suggest this wont be any different. nothing to suggest slavery or exploitation. and they still only in talks, no details. what do you think prisoner rehab looks like?


 * show where this slavery. show me anyone saying it is slavery outside of comments and twitter twats. i see one story from russia today saying slavery. and it dont in the article or even warn of potential exploitationAMassiveGay (talk) 12:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * some background info. criteria for rotl, info for prisoners, some on workep0erience AMassiveGay (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * heres a reminder of actual slavery in uk trivialised by baseless hyperbole AMassiveGay (talk) 13:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've reverted Tuxer's edit. It, and the original WIGO, were indeed dogshit with bells on. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 13:49, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There. Fixed it for balance.  LondonGrump (talk) 14:33, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

What the fuck are you playing at? There's no fucking planet on which "slave labour" is anything but the dumbest of editorialising pulled fresh out your arse. Knock it the fuck off. Thanks. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 21:05, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It’s not slavery, Tuxer is using a British news story to argue American politics. Christopher (talk) 21:22, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree. I think we could use LondonGrumps version. As far as I get, AMG, HBC, LondonGrumps, Christopher and me disagree with the slavery statement. GeeJayK (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've gone with this so no-one needs to hit the fainting couch because of any unintended implication of Tory or corporate altruism. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 21:45, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * ROTOL enables low-risk prisoners to gain work experience, to help provide money for their families, and to contribute to the community. It’s not slave labour. The main concern that we should entertain is the issue of whether they’re granted the standard wage under standard working conditions; It will be interesting to see whether the Home Secretary honours such fundamental rights.
 * On the other hand, it’s fascinating to see Tuxer bite-the-bullet in real time—foot in mouth disease should, eventually, ensue. Here’s some rare footage of Tuxer of Arabia biting the bullet:  Leucippus Salva veritate 15:17, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is already done with dozens of other businesses - Bernard Matthews is a prime example and is mentioned in the article. There are guidelines in place for prisons and businesses. There is no reason to suspect there is anything underhand is this instance. It's only news worthy because it's a Brexit induced shortage.AMassiveGay (talk) 16:06, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Afghanistan Evacuation
Just an observation, but I feel like it’s profound that now that we (well, the US) is leaving, now our soldiers are dying. The loss of life is always tragic, and I don’t mean to make light, but per Wikipedia about 2420 US soldiers have died in the war since it’s 2001 onset. That’s terrible, but not a lot compared to the Afghan security forces (~70,000). Please correct me on this, but my understanding is that only a tiny handful of US soldiers have died in recent years. But now, now suddenly 12 die. I don’t have anything constructive or anything, but damn. Probliknaut (talk) 20:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Here, in fact, per https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-58279900, “ The deaths mark the first US military casualties in Afghanistan since February 2020.” Probliknaut (talk) 20:41, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * you mean its the first us deaths since they signed the doha agreement when trump promised to stop airstrikes on the taliban if they promise not to shoot at us troops while the fucked off out of afghanistan? of course theres been no casualties since then. that was the terms of the deal/us surrender AMassiveGay (talk) 21:07, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * the taliban are just the us hurrying along AMassiveGay (talk) 21:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Suppose I wasn’t being mindful of The Agreement, yeah. Probliknaut (talk) 21:41, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

WIGOs referencing the Brexit
As much as I despise the Brexit I think we shouldn't reference it unless the article mentions it first. Is the Brexit related to shortages on UK? It's very possible it is. But a model with only one variable is also very poor in my opinion. Are other countries also facing similar shortages? If so, are they stronger than the ones in UK? Are there other factors that might be impacting the shortages? If so, are they as relevant as the Brexit? Only after we answer these questions we can blame for sure the Brexit for all these problems. This is how science is done. GeeJayK (talk) 14:30, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Regarding the recent WIGO, though, while both articles mention other issues such as the pandemic and global demand, both articles do either put some blame on Brexit, whether directly in the case of beer, or indirectly ("UK border challenges") in the case of blood collection tubes. A different article from Sky News on the beer shortage reports people snarking at Wetherspoons chair for creating his own mess, so to say, with his full-on Brexit support. at So the Brexit snark is fine to me. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 15:44, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You're right. I read the article on my phone and I missed the euphemism on the beer article. For the record, I'm also ok with the Brexit snark. My point was, supposing the article doesn't mention it I think we shouldn't mention it too, but that doesn't seem to be the case. GeeJayK (talk) 15:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Texas Abortion Law
It's horrible, and hopefully will get struck down. But! The article notes that it's a novel legal strategy, in which the government does not enforce the law, but private citizens elsewhere in the USA bring cases against violators (though what damages they might claim I have no idea), unless I'm reading it wrong. Could it be used to de-facto ban, say, guns, without violating the constitution, since enforcement would not be carried out by the government? (Longtime lurker)Namako (talk) 19:14, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That possibility indeed has been noted. It'll most likely be struck down as un-Constitutional if judges come to their legal sense. If not, I'd expect exactly that sort of thing to happen, which will be barrels of fun. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 19:30, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you.Namako (talk) 20:34, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

The law (may it be swiftly laughed out of court) does not provide for suing a patient who undergoes the procedure, but exposes anyone to vigilante litigation, who provides or assists in providing an abortion after fetal cardiac activity is detectable. Could the Great State of Texas be sued for building and maintaining the roads someone used to drive out of state for the purpose of? Anonymous User (talk) 18:10, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Anonymous User is correct, but apparently it's an easy mistake to make. I saw Chris Hayes make the same mistake live on MSNBC the other evening, and graciously accept a correction. MaillardFillmore (talk) 20:39, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I suspect this is meant to be taken to the SCOTUS to try to kill off Row v. Wade, but it won't. Given how desperate the Roberts' court is to not make any real law changing decisions they'll just strike it down with the 100% legalistic choice of pointing out you can't sue someone unless you yourself have suffered actionable damages at their hands. Revolverman (talk) 18:35, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I guess they could eventually, but they rejected their first chance. Nil Einne (talk) 13:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Protection level changed?
Hi! I just noticed that the protection level for WIGO:World has recently been changed to "Allow only administrators" indefinitely. I was wondering if that's gonna stay for good now, and why was it set in the first place. Thanks in advance! Earl wilmore (talk) 23:32, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It allows autopatrolled users to edit now. MaillardFillmore (talk) 16:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Drone Strike
It’s not super clear to me: there have been two retaliation drone strikes now, or just one? Probliknaut (talk) 02:48, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Just the one. It was announced that it killed the intended target, the terrorists responsible for the airport attack. The current reports are clarifying who the actual victims of the strike were. The NY Times headline of: Pentagon acknowledges Aug. 29 drone strike in Afghanistan was a tragic mistake that killed 10 civilians. is a bit clearer than some of the other headlines (the generic "Drone strike killed civilians" ones). -  Rairyu75  ( Talk ) 02:56, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It just hit me. While US will go crazy over any Islamic terrorist attacks that occur on U.S. soil, we are basically committing terrorist attacks on them all the time yet most people here don't give a shit. Plutocow (talk) 03:04, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Herp a derp, mkay there WERE two strikes, one on the 27th of August and then one on the 29th of August; which is the one we are talking about now. My apologies pal. - Rairyu75  ( Talk ) 03:10, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * no worries my friend. Okay I thought it was 2 but was not positive. Now I can better get a handle on my outrage a la ’s observation. Just imagine, your friends or family, or maybe a neighbor, are trying to bail from your land, and one day you hear about an explosion at the airport. You are probably concerned for your comrades. Then, the Big Tough Guys claiming to help you kill at least 10 innocents in revenge. Appalling. Probliknaut (talk) 03:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe I am just raging at this point so please excuse me, but while driving earlier this evening I saw a Jeep with a wheel cover emblazoned with the US flag in it’s downward position, little aerial bombs at the end of each stripe. My fellow citizens upset me sometimes often.Probliknaut (talk) 03:43, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Tommy Robinson Five Year Stalking Ban
It's okay Tommy, just wait five years and you'll be allowed to stalk people like everyone else! Ryan1257 (talk) 20:09, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Josh Cavallo is the only openly gay top flight professional soccer player
Has anyone told Megan Rapinoe? LondonGrump (talk) 15:29, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Women are frequently erased in headlines like this in the sports world. I can't remember who it was, but some tennis professional was getting hyped up because he had won some certain number of titles and was called the first to do it, but he ended up having to remind everyone that Serena Williams had him beat in pretty much every category. Sports is a land of casual sexism, and that shows in its reporting too with casual erasure like this. armed_roomba (she/her)What am I doing wrong this time? 17:18, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It's only an adverb from erasing Justin Fashanu as well. Still, I fixed it. LondonGrump (talk) 21:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The name is footbal. Come one, aren't you a Londoner? GeeJayK (talk) 21:18, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Wasn't me posted the original, guv. Mind you, I don't mind the word if it's pronounced properly: sosher. LondonGrump (talk) 09:20, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * does gay still include lesbian? feel its increasingly specific to male homosexuals, and when a broader term is required a variant of lgbt+ is used. not sure if i have point yet crystallised beyond low key grumbling there at present.


 * womens sports vs mens sports on the other hand. i know generally the ladies get less pay, coverage, respect and all that, but football? thats all still true, the mens football is so fucking huge in comparison to the womens game, no disrespect to women sports people, their skills, or dedication or anything like that, it just doesnt have the same following. you can say top flight footie and forget the womens game on that alone.


 * and gay as in specifically male homosexuals openly in the game is a pretty huge landmark for the sport, especially so early in there career, even if technically its not the first gay as in generally lgbt+. coming out of their own bat and not because a tabloid was gonna do a story on them is also pretty rare.


 * and of course, a lesbian sportsperson? the perception of butch lesbians and women in manly sports is all sportswomen are lesbians or the very least their femininity is questioned. i remember some tabloid bullshit surrounding navratilova and womens tennis riddled with lesbians.
 * in mens sports, manly men playing manly sports being manly with manly sponsorships for manly hair product wearing manly not-a-skirt-its-a-sarongs, being good at your game doesnt make you less manly, like being good at sports makes women appear less feminine, more manly, butch, according to a very narrow criteria for masculinity/femininity that most sports adhere to. big muscle make strong man good at sports earn mans respect. big muscle make strong woman good at sports and beat man in arm wrestle make man uncomfortable. the more feminine sportsmen suffer less from being not so physically masculine as their team mates because despite girly hair and branded skincare and making dave down the pub confused about his erections, they drive flash sports cars and knob cat walk models. and the football fans for the mens teams are incredibly tribal, aggressively so, with elements violently so, and have been at times and places ripe for recruiting to far right and fascist groups.


 * right or wrong, the association of lesbians within womens professional sports, makes the revelation of actual lesbian players when they do come out is less notable, warrants little more than a shrug to non lesbians - its accepted that there will lesbians playing sport, and generally their fans and professional associations seem more welcoming. that makes it good thing when their sexuality does not make waves.


 * mens football, one would expect there to be gay players, but where are they? they are silent, or nearing the end of the career, or in the vauxhall conference and work a day job. they are there but its not exactly a very welcoming environment. players and teamates you might expect to be at least professional about things, but your fans? the opposing teams? less friendly more terrifying and your cock picks from grindr are pixallated in the sun. i seem to remember matt le tisseur used to get dreadful homophobic abuse. hes not gay, but he once said he read the guardian. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:45, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The Rittenhouse case and the word "Victims"
In case folks don't know, there has been a longstanding legal debate on whether the use of the word "victim" in a criminal case is unduly prejudicial by implying guilt to a jury (see: "Use of the Term “Victim” In Criminal Proceedings," National Crime Victim Law Institute), and it's not uncommon for a defense attorney to request those words not be used in cases like this (not to mention this particular judge purportedly has a long-standing procedure of not allowing the usage of the word “victim” in his court.)

There are a lot of ways that the justice system as it currently is is fucked, but this doesn't appear to be one of them. Instead, this looks like one of those stories that get people knee-jerk furious over what's really largely a matter of courtroom procedure. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 18:16, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * but not using the word suggests the crime never happened. Usage doesn't make shit right. LondonGrump (talk) 21:10, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The issue is this isn't a consistent approach. It's all well and good to forbid the prosecution from using loaded terms because it might prejudice the jury, but if the defense are allowed to use their own loaded terms to describe the same dead people, that process becomes a joke. 195.105.245.19 (talk) 12:49, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * According to a lawyer I spoke to awhile back about this, describing the deceased as rioter/looter/whathaveyou is allowed so long as evidence is provided, due to the fact that the deceased are not the ones on trial, and the legality of the killings is what's in question, not whether or not the accused committed any killings in the first place. This is perfectly consistent within the context of criminal law, if a bit unpleasant. 13:05, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * How can anyone be shot dead without being a victim of a shooting? There aren't the consensual questions that surround, say rape or the technical issues of financial crime. Gun, bullet, dead.LondonGrump (talk) 17:25, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If a mugger attempts to rob me, and I shoot him dead, and I then go to trial, would is be fair to label the mugger as my "victim" or would that place undue weight on a specific way of viewing things? 17:31, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * id rather a bit a of quibbling and pedantry over the use of terms and phrases in courts no matter how slight or insignificant an effect it might seem. the jury is already prejudiced against the defendant just by them being in court, everything they say is to be scrutinised. malice is easier to believe, innocent explanations seem more implausible just because they are the suspect. hearing talk of victims, whose victims you ponder while staring at defendant? is he sweating? guilty conscience? no reaction? cold and calculating. look at that smirk, they a monster. the defendant may have their liberty and/or life at stake, and every little thing can look and sound much worse, make guilt seem more certain than the evidence suggests. not using language that introduces or reinforces unfair bias against the defendant levels the scales a little and makes a fairer trial. at worst it does nothing. a guilty verdict should not require subliminal tricks or people to boo and hiss to make a case. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:05, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The United States, inventor of backsliding democracies
This is just too hysterical and innacurate. Democratic backsliding is as old as democracy itself. I think the wigo should be edited. GeeJayK (talk) 17:34, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * im not really sure what they mean by 'inventor of backsliding democracies'. it doesnt really make sense and im not certain on what the point being made with that particular wording. if its some sort of snark its lost on me. that said the second part of the wigo, the bit with the link is clear enough that you can ignore the weird phrasing of the first part. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:18, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I wrote it, it was a snarky play on a recursive sentence. I don't plan on changing it. And if we're being picky, the US did invent backsliding democracies, plenty of them, just not the concept of backsliding democracies, if you get my drift. Cardinal Chang (talk) 21:34, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

New Zealand tries to phase out cigarettes, "like that's going to work"
Can we leave such statements out of the article summaries? I tried to remove it due to it just being speculative and unsupported, but got reverted by. 03:45, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Seemed like a SPOV qualifier and liked the tone it was going for, but wasn't aware of that rule regarding article summaries. Apologies for that. armed_roomba (she/her)What am I doing wrong this time? 03:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, you don't have to apologize. I wasn't particularly enforcing a rule as much as that I didn't agree with the comment there, and I also think it's speculative. If there's going to be criticism on this measure, I think it should be more thorough, and the WIGO doesn't have much and probably isn't the right place for it. The article even has support from public health experts, though also has criticism from the Act party, a right-wing libertarian group whose opinion I don't quite value as much. 04:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This makes sense to me, probably best to just keep it without the comment then. armed_roomba (she/her)What am I doing wrong this time? 05:11, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you people stupid? If you don't like a WIGO, just downvote it.  Why do you even think the downvote function even exists?--Hastur! (talk)  05:51, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly, so why try to poison the well with needless speculation? LongStylus (talk) 07:17, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

What does the up and down voting thing mean?
--Spafky (talk) 17:17, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Supposedly up voting means you thing the news are worthy of being posted, while down voting is that you think the article is not worthy being shared. However most people have used it to pass judgment on real life events. The only wigo where this rule consistently applies is clogs. Tuxer (talk) 18:47, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * clogs? --Spafky (talk) 16:13, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Here. It's dedicated to op-eds, social media posts and blogs that are incredibly dumb, full of conspiracy theories or just pure nonsense. Tuxer (talk) 17:47, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Syria Raid Correction
US Special Forces didn’t kill the ISIS leader. The ISIS leader killed himself and his family with a suicide bomb before the Special Forces even entered the building. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2603:8001:A606:8C21:349D:DD3:FDB5:1C4A / talk
 * Correction added. 23:07, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Lebanon going bankrupt
Anyone else remember the UK going bankrupt and declaring a decrease in the value of the pound of almost 15%? 1967 if I remember right. Scream!! (talk) 20:36, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No, because I can't remember stuff that never happened. The UK has never gone bankrupt. A devaluation isn't a bankruptcy. Sterling was simply overvalued and the BoE was unable to buy in enough dollars to cover the import bills. This was before Sterling 'floated'.


 * In traditional Tory style, this was always held up to be a sign of Labour 'mismanaging the economy' (Wilson was PM) while the smart folks always knew the problem had built up in the 1950s (and thus, under the Tories). KarmaPolice (talk) 03:15, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

green cards
of all the things sunak has done or can be accused of, holding on to his greed card longer than he needed it and/or after its conditions were breached, does not seem to me a particularly big deal. an extended period outside of the us is apparently grounds for a green card lapsing automatically, so even without his cabininet position, he'd likely have lost just by doing nowt. as it was, he asked the us authorities about it the first time he went stateside about it, and they didnt seem to outraged by him having it just asked for it back. seems no suggestion he had profited in any way by hanging on to it, and if any tax is owed by him from over the time he was ineligible to have the card but still did, hes loaded - he likely just pay it if asked along with any late filing fine. there is plenty to hammer sunak with, over this is just petty. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:02, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * the article even says he filed all appropriate taxes in the us while he still had the card and the only suggestion any laws have been broken is when the article itself references a line from the the us homeland security website not any kind of legal expert nor any in particular making an accusation or any thing official from the us. its a non story. is the inadequate response from the treasury to cost of living of crisis while his missus avoids paying millions in taxes in the uk from her shares in a company in bed with putin not enough on its own to add another nail in the tory coffin? this greencard thing just distracts from the callous disregard/contempt/obliviousness the tories have and show the general public that sunak's non dom wife taxes and other assorted fucknuttery reveal - not just hypocrisy but genuine surprise that people might be upset at their double standards, genuine bewilderment over criticism at giving their mates lucrative contracts, or last minute votes to change anti-corruption legislation to try and save their dodgy pals, all the while expecting praise for going after russian money but not the russian money they received or that they had shut down investigations into russian oligarchs years ago that we are now sanctioning.AMassiveGay (talk) 10:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Having a green card is not a renunciation of citizenship. 172.72.176.39 (talk) 19:57, 23 April 2022 (UTC)