Talk:Greatest liberal songs

PLEASE REMEMBER TO ADD ARTISTS AND EXPLANATIONS WHEN YOU ADD TO THE LIST

Revolution #1?
The case for Revolution as a liberal song... --Shagie 23:27, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * But when you talk about destruction / Don't you know you can count me out
 * anti war
 * You say you got a real solution / Well you know we'd all love to see the plan
 * What was that Iraq solution the president suggested?
 * You say you'll change the constitution / Well you know we'd all love to change your head
 * anti-flag burning amendment
 * anti-anti gay marriage amendment
 * You tell me it's the institution / Well you know You better free your mind instead
 * anti-anti gay marriage amendment


 * Shag my man, unlike some sites, we don't watch articles and censor what we don't like .... Just put it all in and see what sorts out in the wash.... Have fun SirChuckB 00:04, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Just added it.  00:13, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Changed to "Revolution", the flip side of Hey Jjude. The fast one.  revolution #1 goes "But when you talk about destruction / Don't you know you can count me out - in".  Anyway, the fast one came first.  They're both great... human be in 03:36, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Artists
Please don't add songs if you don't know the artist, a simple Yahoo or Google search can easily lead to an artist, just take some time and effort before adding. SirChuckB 00:32, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Mark for deletion
As I said, We're not about deleted anything we disagree with, so I'm gonna put this up for the group. Your opinions please

"Get Back on my Liberal plantation, Democratic Party" appears to be a bad attempt at parody/vandalism, but I may be mistaken, find me a lyric sheet or an established recording within the next 48 hours, or I'm gonna go ahead and remove it

"Alice's Resteraunt, ????? Guthry?, ????? (Promotes littering....oh oh, maybe it is not a liberal song)" Please find an artist or we'll have to delete it, I assume it is a real song, but please confirm this


 * You can get anything you want there. Well, excepting Alice. That would be Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml . Listen for it on the rock stations around Thanksgiving (one year on a road trip on Thanksgiving day I heard it 4 times going through multiple radio stations). Before any questions of copyright and linking, that's Arlo Guthrie's website. --Shagie 01:26, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

"Freedom, Paris, Sonic Jihad (Oh, wait, maybe this should be on the conservative list)" Here's the lyric sheet, decide for yourself [] SirChuckB 00:32, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Strong delete (of the article) (that's what I thought this section header meant after looking at the article) If it was any good I'd move it to ACD, bu it isn't even good. It reads like mean, "liberal hating" parody.  If that's what it is, fine, but what's it doing on RW?  Where not here to hate on political ideologies, but how they misuse science, etc. For starts, if these are the "greatest liberal songs", I'd expect a more obvious political bent and more famous songs, less made-up ones. Better idea - move it to CP:blah blah.  And make it good. human be in 01:38, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Aaaw Human. Don't stamp on people's dreams. RojerB-KtF! 01:49, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Eh, hehe, ok. I just doubled the size of the list, bein' an old fogie who almost remember the sixties. human be in 02:27, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

1812
I know its not a song but ... RojerB-KtF! 01:26, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sure it's a song, Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie did it, if I remember right. Well, most people misattribute it to the Arrogant Worms. --Kels 15:56, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

God Bless America
While We Can't Make it Here is a superb song, God Bless America is almost as powerful - how do you feel about two songs by the same artist?

direction of this article?
I probably shouldn't be editing it, since I am taking it "seriously". Is it supposed to be juvenile anti-conservative parody, or a real list of songs that promote modern liberal ideals? Feel free to revert my several slash and burn edits if I misunderstood where you are going with it. Or merge some of what I added. human be in 01:47, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * A few things I was thinking after I dragged myself away from this last night... one, obviously, feel free to remove any of my rather copious additions. Didn't mean to walk all over your project... two, might it make sense, having seen the "original" at CP eventually, to have a list, perhaps at the top (specials) that is a one-to-one smackdown with the list at CP?  Ooh, and I forgot to add that Squeeze song about teenage abortion, "Vicky Verky". human be in 12:13, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Links to artists
Some of the songs have music or lyrics provided by the artist. Some of these may not be well known to all readers (not everyone listens to what is classified as country). In many cases, the lyrics themselves give such eloquence that it is a shame to try to sum it up in one set of parens.
 * Well Jesus was a homeless lad
 * With an unwed mother and an absent dad
 * And I really don't think he would have gotten that far
 * If Newt, Pat and Jesse had followed that star
 * From long-haired radical socialist Jew

Or how about
 * High school girl with a bourgeois dream
 * Just like the pictures in the magazine
 * She found on the floor of the laundromat
 * A woman with kids can forget all that
 * If she comes up pregnant what'll she do
 * Forget the career, forget about school
 * Can she live on faith? live on hope?
 * High on Jesus or hooked on dope
 * When it's way too late to just say no
 * You can't make it here anymore
 * From We can't make it here

And for most non-Americans, they may well never have heard of of Alice's Restraunt
 * And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
 * And that's what it is, the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.
 * From Alice's Restaurant

Names and artists is useful for those who want to take that extra effort to look it up. In today's world you go and follow a link to a page that is either violating copyright or heavily advertisement laden. But if one links to the artist's website with music and/or lyrics it provides that extra little bit for them to listen to it... and maybe, just maybe... someone who is undecided will go listen or read the lyrics themselves and say, yea... thats true. --Shagie 02:07, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think if the line starts with name and artist, google or WP finishes the job just fine. As far as the lyrics above, yeah it's hard.  I hadn't heard of the songs, but left them because the comments weren't stoopid.  Ideas... LHRSJ - comment could just say "hint: it's about Jesus".  No good ideas on the McMurtry one, though. human be in 02:38, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Did you listen to it? At one time, you could get it as a free download from the website (if you chase a few links you can get "God Bless America" which is equally critical of the motives for Iraq).  Now, you can listen to it as streaming audio http://www.myspace.com/jamesmcmurtry - its a good song and quite powerful. --Shagie 03:13, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Clash
Do you guys really want me to add 50 or 60 Clash songs? And that brings up Punk, which has had several waves of politically intense songs... you know, I had a life before I found this article! human be in 02:40, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Why not just put at the bottom about 1,000,000 punk songs from the last 30 years and leave it at that. This whole article seems a bit pointless. ollïegrïnd  07:00, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Liberal
I think we are being a bit liberal with our definition of liberal. Is wanting peace really a liberal trait? Aren't there many conservative people who want peace? I think a lot of this is buying into the definitions that conservapedia defined. Most people here know that politics are not a black and white issue and that there are people that believe in things that fall on both sides of the artificially created lines drawn by American politics. Lets try to rise above the horseshit here. ollïegrïnd 07:10, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree. And on top of that I think any musician/actor should stay the hell out of the political sphere. Until they're actually running for an office, I don't care what they think.  Jr  ss  r5  08:09, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I can understand people being annoyed with actors and musicians opening their mouths at the MTV awards or something similar but I feel that artists have a right to insert political themes/messages into their art (be it music, film, painting, etc). I also don't really have a problem with musicians/actors being political activists if they so chose but I know (and they should know and expect) that it will lose them some fans. And we, as the consumer, have the right to not consume their product if we don't want to. I have yet to buy a Toby Keith CD. ollïegrïnd  08:43, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I meant the speaking out at random events thing. It is annoying when a band/artist/whatever makes a political statement then gets pissed when some people disagree or decide to avoid their music (Dixie Chicks, Kayne West, etc).  You better go buy a copy of Toby Keith's CD or he'll put a boot in your ass!  Jr  ss  r5  08:50, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Aren't there many conservative people who want peace? Not many running the country these days, it seems.  And as for the Apocalyptic wing of the GOP, Slacktivist explains why they think peacemakers are EVIL. --Gulik 13:32, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

ART FOR ART'S SAKE ...
(... money for god's sake) Pity there isn't a musical equivalent of Picasso's Guernica - now there's an 'artist' (i.e. performer) making a political point. RojerB-KtF! 12:03, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

My God, What have I started
I thought it would be a cute bit.... Mock Conservapedia for the sheer gall it takes to claim a song as conservative..... but I see now that I brought the monster to life.... My god have mercy on us all SirChuckB 17:23, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Music has a well-known liberal bias... human be in 18:23, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I actually have to disagree with you on this one.... As a Music Student, I don't think music has any inherrent bias... Now, a lot of musicians are liberal, for various reasons better discussed elsewhere, and their bias does creep into songs, but music itself has no bias, nor does the music industry.... unless you count Making money... SirChuckB 19:42, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No need to agree ;) I could go on about how exploring beauty, creativity, etc., is "liberal", but then following rules and doing what you're told is "conservative".  In the end, I'd agree, of course, music is value-neutral, politically.  But I had to say it ;) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 20:42, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Since you brought up the music business - "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST PFoster 20:12, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That's great... and so true... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 20:42, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Though music is read from left TO right all the really important stuff, key sig, time goes on the LEFT. Coincidence?CЯacke ® 22:59, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No, it's just anti-Semitism. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 23:05, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Conservapedia now has a new essay about the greatest Conservative Movies..... Given the sinkhole this has become, I'm not touching it.... feel free SirChuckB 10:43, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

The fact is, this becoming a sinkhole is, to me, the point. Unless produced with a specific point in mind, art doesn't have politics. What political affiliation does the Mona Lisa have? How about La Traviata? Or maybe King Kong? It's a fool's game to try to claim art for either side, and only someone who wants to use it as propaganda will take such a division seriously. Unfortunately, too many prominent voices on the Right these days do just that. By making ours silly and loose, it becomes parody, an art in itself. --Kels 12:09, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Holy hell, I thought I was the only one who remembered PWEI --Kels 12:03, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Hehehe, one of my favourite live bands back in the day...pretty<font color="#808080">dilettante lies 12:05, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

rap
OMGZ, Kels "PWE" thing reminded me, what of the great rap political stuff? Fear of a Black Planet by PE, for instance. Or Freedom of Speech (Watch What You Say) by, uh, Ice Cube, right? Old school, but good. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 12:27, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Anything by Public Enemy gets my vote. Then there's Credit to the Nation and Senser, still all played to death on my stereo. pretty<font color="#808080">dilettante lies 12:35, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * And what's wrong with "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five? Hell, why not go back a bit and get into George Clinton and P-Funk? --Kels 12:49, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

What is this??

 * At the risk of sounding a little cynical here, this is starting to look like a list of songs people like. You can take almost any song and give it a message if you want to. "Mull of Kintyre" environmentalism. Rolf Harris "Two little Boys" - Anti-war. Adam and the ants - Stand and Deliver - redistribution of wealth. Madonna - Material girl - anti consumerism. Spice Girls - Wannabe - honesty in sexual relationships. The challenge would seem to be to find a song that couldn't be included.--Bob_M (talk) 12:36, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * "Surfin' Bird" by The Trashmen ollïegrïnd  12:43, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * "Surfin Bird" words here. http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_trashmen/surfin_bird.html obvious environmental message.--Bob_M (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I think that may be the point. The CP list is so hilarious, the founders of this one just had to do it.  I mean, the CP one uses a John Lennon song about change, and a great tune with an angry line in it by Lynyrd Skynyrd while ignoring Mr. Saturday Night Special.  SO we're just having fun with it.  Also, think about it - as this file grows, it's turning into a pretty good record collection... Then we need the "100 greatest liberal albums of all time".  I keep meaning to look up which symphony Beethoven renamed when he got pissed that Napoleon declared himself "Emporer"... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 12:53, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Couldn't be included? How about "I'm in Love With Ann Coulter" by The Right Brothers. What do I win? ; ) pretty<font color="#808080">dilettante lies 13:12, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you get the words to "I'm in Love with AC"? I couldn't find them on the page you gave - so no prize yet.--Bob_M (talk) 13:42, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sadly, I've been unable to find the lyrics to this little gem. Methinks they aren't all that popular...XD pretty<font color="#808080">dilettante lies 14:04, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I was gonna suggest anything by Prussian Blue. --Kels 13:15, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Could you be more specific Kels?--Bob_M (talk) 13:43, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Eroica, the third. Also, this page needs more Bach. -- AKjeldsen Godspeed! 13:20, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Anything by that ex-AG, um, what was his name again? And thanks on Beethoven #3. Can you add it from memory? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 13:22, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * There we go. No idea what an ex-AG is, though. -- AKjeldsen Godspeed! 13:58, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks. Former Attorney General (of the "US").  John Ashcroft.  Has an album of stirring Putriotic Songs. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 14:02, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * His hit was "I lost to a dead man." ollïegrïnd  14:24, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * As human pointed out, this list is a response to CP where they reached desperately to find "conservative" messages in songs. "You Can't Hurry Love" is about abstinence? Really??? It's a common theme on CP where "Things I like" = Good = Conservative / "Things I don't like" = Bad = Liberal. Garble 17:37, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I can see where it's coming from. It's where it's gone that's strange.--Bob_M (talk) 04:36, 21 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Like I said earlier (I think I said it) I started the page as a joke, a cute little bit.... But it's grown into the ..... Whateveryouwannacallit that it is now.... However, all we can do is sit back, relax, watch ourselves be engulfed by the sheer weight of the beast and pray for salvation..... Good luck to all of you and may Dickens Be With You SirChuckB 05:55, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

formatting?
Is it time to start alphabetizing these by title? Also, there was another subheading that occurred to me, but I forgot it. Oh, yeah, anti-imperialism. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 14:08, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

silly
I'M unwatching this - it's got silly RojerB-KtF! 14:21, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Not silly enough, quite, by far, for me yet, sir. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 15:21, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


 * "sir"? What do you mean by this? I bite my thumb at you. Centuries of folk songs bewailing the fate of the common man. thinks: will they notice I've not unwatched? RojerB-KtF! 15:33, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Protest = Liberal?
Just wondering, cos there's a few that come to mind from my misspent youth dodging the security police - Special AKA's "Free Nelson Mandela", Peter Gabriel's "Biko", Springsteen's (and later U2) "Sun City", Latin Quarter "Radio Africa"... actually all their stuff counts. My 2c if if somebody deems them worthy of adding to the list. Psygremlin 17:05, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Feel free to go ahead and add them. I loved Simple Minds' cover of Biko... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human  17:11, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

I think I already added Biko… --<font color="#00FFFF">λινυσ (☮) 19:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

1812
I note we have inculded Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture as a liebral song. However, doesn't the musical employment of several largely defensive weapons of gun in that piece make it seem suspicusly conservative? -- AKjeldsen Godspeed! 17:20, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't be silly, remember that liberals are the ones who wage wars for personal benefit. Given your obvious bias, and your making three spelling mistakes, I doubt your commitment to this project. - Amos von Bohdanders 18:13, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I believe this should be submitted to the Herr Projekt Direktor for approval. It also contains insufficient references to schoolgirls' panties for my liking. Have you created a Writing Plan? - WeirdEdMoon 18:52, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It's the only war the Yankees lost
 * Except for Vietnam
 * And also the Alamo (right)
 * And the Bay of...Ham

Suspect Device
Suspect Device by Stiff Little Fingers is a great punk song, but is it well-known enough to go on the list? Totnesmartin 14:23, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I didn't realize we had a notability requirement for this list... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:22, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I didn't want to flood the list with obscure punk songs that hardly anyone remembers, but i can do that if you don't mind. Hmm, that didn't sound very punk, did it? Totnesmartin 16:40, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Let me rephrase that for you:
 * "You're fucking list needs more real fucking songs from real bands that fucking matter. Fuck off if you don't like it!"
 * Ah, that's better, I can feel the Doc Martin to the side of the head now... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:57, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Special Section: Frank Zappa
Frank Zappa was a huge advocate for free speech, free thinking, and freedom in general. He stood up for a lot of liberal ideologies in his lyrics (when he wasn't making awkward dirty jokes), and he's still one of the first musicians some people think of when they think of political music. I think he deserves his own section. A Writer of Vaudevilles 04:34, 16 November 2008 (EST)
 * Sounds good to me. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:25, 16 November 2008 (EST)

consistency in format
Anyone feel like taking all the italicized titles and changing them to quotes? IE, title becomes "title"? Hmm, maybe I will, I can do a global search/replace in another ap... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:48, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * Did'ja get any album titles doing that? Secret Squirrel 17:55, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * Almost certainly ;) I'll look for them and correct (I replaced all the itals with quotes...). Thanks for pointing that out. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)
 * I think it was just the two Dylan albums, I hope I'm right. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:06, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Nominating a song
Sigur Rós, an Icelandic post-rock band, has a song called "Viðrar vel til loftárása" with a music video that strongly supports tolerance of gays (the band's lead singer is gay). I don't know if the song itself does, and also I don't know if it would count under "greatest" being as it's somewhat obscure, but I think it deserves a mention. Video link Wehpudicabok 01:02, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Just add it, we have no criterion here. Translation link would be nice, but not necessary. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:41, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Anti-racism -> tolerance?
Shouldn't we have a section for promoting tolerance? Kwsn 14:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The Casualties
Unknown Soldier by the Casualties just started playing on my iTunes playlist, and I was looking at this at the time thinking it should be here... then I saw it was here. Hilarious anecdote, I know. 16:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Fun?
Shouldn't this be in fun space? 02:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Made it so and combined with the conservative list. Delete this now? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 01:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you move it or copy it? Because copy kills the history.  Yup, you did it wrong.  Please delete the fun version and move this then merge in the con list.  02:54, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, moving an article of long-standing to fun with only two "assents" seems a bit rushed. Especially when failing to bring the talk page along with it. How about two fun: articles, this one and the con one? linked to each other?  I am not gonna do the work, you've made a mess, please clean it up.  02:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright--but it seemed as if deleting (never mind just moving...) the conservative songs article after two assents was okay. So what do we want then, just to be sure: Fun: lib and Fun: con? yes? Anybody else got a suggestion? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Having seen the "con" part, which is our mocking version, I can see how it can belong in the same article. Trouble is, it has/had it's own history, right?  I'm fine with fun:con and fun:lib, linked (or even transcluded?).  Can you manage to repair these so the histories are intact again?  That's most of my concern, where they live is not very important, and they aren't really "on mission" so fun is fine with me.  03:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The history of this is still intact, of course, it's not deleted yet. Restoring the con one will restore its history, right? So restore that, move it to fun, move this to fun, and vape the combined one already in fun? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think so, yeah. Restore both, then move both, with talk pages, then redo the several edits to the fun article I saw?  Like SAE (Clash!)? This stuff is tiresome, I wish the MW software made it easy to merge articles and keep both histories...  04:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)