Essay talk:CP on Deceit

Feel free to fuck with the title and otherwise improve. I just ask that you maintain the parallel structure and idea of the piece. --PalMD-yada yada 22:39, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW, a minor cp editor is about to self-destruct
 * Gone.
 * What version of the page is this? Linus (plot evil tech) 23:03, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Im not sure what that means, i did it in my sandbox and moved it over here.--PalMD-yada yada 23:03, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Someone went poof and I missed it? Drat.  What did they have to say?  --Gulik 01:18, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * An editor named ThomasD apparently posted this article under several different titles at once. The banhammer struck mightily.DocSock 08:00, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * OK, I moved the talk page version to here. Feel free to praise me.DocSock 07:55, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Wouldn't traversing the so-called "heterosexual-homosexual continuum" be a classic case of bisexuality? It certainly lines up well with the Kinsey scale. --Kels 20:47, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

I wonder, would Andy's habit of disavowing Conservatives (Abramoff, Wolfowitz, etc.) once they do something embarrassing count as deceit? --Kels 21:17, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Prob does, but im trying to keep the parallel structure.75.7.128.207 22:19, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

I don't think the Kitzmiller cite is accurate -- I'm pretty sure the judge was just talking about school board members, not the (supposed) scientists, when he said they lied. --jtl talk 22:46, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
 * No, he was actually talking about the so-called scientists as well. But double check with Ames if  not sure.--PalMD-yada yada 22:48, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

Nice Work
I just skimmed, but I liked what I saw. I will try to do some deeper proofreading and eventual title suggestion tomorrow (Weds.), OK? human be in 00:17, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Typo? Clarity? meaning?: "The National Rifle Association purports to support gun control and by extension, other individual rights." Did you mean oppose? human be in 00:20, 6 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I added headings, making sections easier to edit.


 * I added some stuff about reagan after the inherit the wind thing. NEEDS CITES.  I'm lazy (habit I picked up at CP!).
 * The reagan stuff needs these cites: Iran/Contra (and the law it broke); "memory" lapses (=incompetent); and whatever the third thing I mentioned was. human be in 00:42, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Also, one or the other Schlafly has strongly implied that Oliver North was factually innocent, based on his legal innocence, which in turn was based on his immunity agreement with congress. I can't find the cite right now, though. --jtl talk 01:22, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

John Lott might be a better counterpart to Bellisiles. One part of his deceit is oddly similar to Bellisiles -- a survey result based on a survey that probably never happened, with data lost in a computer crash. Then another survey done and the data manipulated to match the stat he wanted touse. And on top of all that, he's got a sockpuppet personality used in various fora, praising himself and his work, claiming to be one of his students. --jtl talk 01:25, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd love to find a place for "mike gannon" the gay escort press room plant.75.62.26.189 07:41, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Shhh...--careful on the Lott thing. A while back, when the main CP page was trumpeting Lott, I edited the entry to point out Lott's deceit.  Thus far, they haven't discovered it...--WJThomas 10:49, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Scooter
Lewis Libby is part of the Neocon coterie, as such he falls outside the parameters and pale of the blanket of guiltlessness that covers "Conservatives". To you or I this is a nonexistent difference but to CP it is a world of difference. C ® acker 08:17, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, they aren't getting a pass from the Doc on that one. If "liberals" are responsible for all "liberal" deceit, then...Also, I really want to do something on Mike Gannon.  It's just hilarious.DocSock 08:21, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Please do! I'm downright astonished the Evil Liberal Media Conspiracy allowed that one to fall off the front page. --Gulik 13:47, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Remember Cracker, Conservatives tend to deny they're Conservatives. Or deny other people are conservatives after they're indicted. It's part of their deceitful nature, don'cha know? --Kels 11:14, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * As mr. Schlafly was so kind to enlighten us a while back, neocons are merely liberals who think/pretend that they are now conservatives. By extension, neocon deceit is actually a kind of liberal deceit. Marvelous how it all fits together. --AKjeldsen 11:24, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Isn't there a psychological term for that? --Kels 12:00, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Retardation? (apologies to those who really are mentally challeneged, I don't mean to insult you) Jrssr5 12:07, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I've heard that sort of thing referred to as the "No Real Germans Fallacy", but I don't know the details. --Gulik 13:11, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just looked it up, it's the No True Scotsman fallacy. And yeah, looking at the description over at WP, they might as well put one of those lovely pics of Aschlafly up to accompany the article. --Kels 13:23, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's the one! Thanks for finding it. --Gulik 13:29, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just made an article for it, although it could use tidying up, examples, etc. --Kels 13:39, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't worry, they aren't reading this...it's their friends you have to apologize to. I don't know if there is a specific psychological defense mechanism...just sleezy self-interest.--PalMD-yada yada 12:40, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, I meant the closed and self-perpetuating delusion in general, rather than solely this example. Although liberalphobia is a cute thought. --Kels 12:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Deceptive Conservative Fiction section
I'm not claiming glroy for myself, just exonerating PalMD from any shame attendant on this one section, which I added to the essay while helping out with structure a bit. That's why it has "citation needed" in two places instead of footnotes. Because I am a lazy, liberal practitioner of deceit. If anyone can put in some real cites there, I would be eternally grateful for a day or two. human be in 16:12, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

NRA section
It is still unclear what it means. Please, Doc, can you go fix it sometime when you're not wiped out after an evening of installing faulty off-brand gall bladders? human be in 20:54, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * PS, where do I go for warranty work around here? human be in 20:54, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I was wondering where mine went after I got it out. Reduce, reuse, recycle! --Kels 20:56, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I tried to clarify it, but if someone wants to find a better NRA example feel free. Im out of the picture soon.--PalMD-yada yada 21:25, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Awesome, thanks, Doc. I would have meddled, but I wasn't sure what you were trying to say.  Now if someone would get cites for the section I added.... What are you looking at me like that for? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms">human <font color="#00AA00">be in 21:30, 6 June 2007 (CDT)