RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Video games featuring positive female characters

Feminist video games, now renamed | Result: Deleted

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Delete

 * 1) Inaccurate, poorly written, and it isn't even the right way to approach the topic. I could help make it more accurate by adding examples, but soon enough it would become clear that there are a lot of games out there that treat both genders fairly. The article could explain that these games aren't a majority, but people are going to take home the opposite message. Player 03 (talk) 02:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * While I'm at it, let's take a look at RationalWiki's mission statement:
 * Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement.
 * Neither feminism nor video games are pseudoscience or anti-science.
 * Documenting the full range of crank ideas.
 * There are cranks arguing over feminism and/or video games, but this article doesn't mention them. Nor does it argue against ideas commonly held by cranks, nor does it explain things that are commonly misunderstood by cranks.
 * Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism.
 * Neither feminism nor video games fall under these categories, except perhaps for fringe groups in the feminist movement.
 * Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media.
 * Video games may be "media," but the policy is referring to the news media.
 * I realize that there are other articles that don't seem to match these criteria. However, most of those articles fall under the category of "explaining things that are commonly misunderstood by cranks," which as I said above, does not apply to this article. Player 03 (talk) 02:40, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Amen to that.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 02:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) It's possible to argue forever about what makes a video game "feminist". Is the newest Tomb Raider feminist?  What of the several that make Wonder Woman a playable character?  Any game where you can choose a female protagonist?  (This vastly improves the Mass Effect series.)  And so forth. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 03:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Many feminism related things are on mission for RW, an article about games that are feminist are not --"Paravant" Talk & Contribs 04:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 07:49, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) --TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 08:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Balete it. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 09:24, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) The article, in its current state, is irreparably terrible. The topic of the article is already covered in dozens of other articles. On top of that, what makes something a "feminist video game" is a poorly defined, subjective concept that would likely 1) add to mission creep on RationalWiki and 2) wind up with a definition that is so vague it will be subjected to debate on RationalWiki for years on end. For these reasons, I find this article unsuitable for RationalWiki and worthy of deletion. Gooniepunk (talk) 12:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 4) Per Gooniepunk's "subjective concept" argument. —Bilorv (smells) 12:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Just to add: I think the new title is about as bad as the old one (it's swapped inaccuracy of description for verbosity). —Bilorv (smells) 13:28, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Cruft magnet. Alec Sanderson (talk) 12:48, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Cruft magnet is an excellent way to describe the primary problem here. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 13:17, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Keep

 * 1) Keep and expand. --Castaigne (talk) 02:43, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 2) Keep, expand, change the definition of feminist video games, and maybe change the title to "Positive representations of females" instead so we can avoid an unproductive argument. I've already started working on it by inserting specific examples and sources, and also rewriting the poor prose, since deleting the article altogether is a terrible idea. Also, feminism is not in fact a pseudoscience but an "-ism", one in which we increasingly study due to their misrepresentation in the news media and media in general. Let me add that in one of the video games in Mass Effect the protagonist enters into an intense love scene with an alien. Media outlets such as Fox News decided to commit a straw man and say that the alien sex scenes were purely for pornographic purposes rather than artistic choices made by both the player and the developer. An editor made a wise move by putting it in the Media Category is it news, showing that it is in fact relevant to Rational Wiki.--Dandtiks69 (talk) 07:00, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Clues to how to prevent viewers form taking home the opposite message include graphical representations of the quantity of these kinds of games versus more traditional ones and an emphasis on tokenism. Like I said I will emphasize the definition of a feminist video game more so that games like Tomb Raider or Bayonetta don't get included, as choosing a female playable character isn't enough. I put down from Feminist Frequency "Jade" as a reliable character for feminism because she has relatable problems to those of both genders and because her attire emphasizes practicality, a lot. This is how we can get the article to fit in "Positive Female Character archetypes" or "Feminist Video Games", whichever title is preferable. That's why I say change the title instead. Dandtiks69 (talk) 07:23, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Goat

 * 1) I think this is just the wrong place for this article. We have list articles about music of a particular persuasion, why not stuff this into the same namespace? 07:29, 19 August 2015 (UTC)