RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive51

Wiring RJ45
I'm about to commit murder I'm so frustrated. I got a crimp tool, some RJ45 plugs, and a spool of cat5e wire. I cannot for the life of me figure out how people get the wires to go into their little spots. I've gotten 1 patch cable made in the last hour. Halp. 23:55, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Figured it out. You gotta hold the wires real flat and tight close to the connector to keep them in order. 00:03, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It helps if you use a flat narrow plier to hold the wires. — Pietrow   ☏  09:59, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Carterism?
Ok, it just occurred to me: there have been tons of good parody religions (Flying Spaghetti Monster, Invisible Pink Unicorn, Church of the Subgenius, Discordianism, etc.), but I'm amazed no one's tried the most obvious one of all (if you're trying to piss off the religious right):  Declare Jimmy Carter to be God incarnate (if he denies it, he's just trying to teach us to be humble by example)! Therefore, any bad decisions he made can be said to be "God's will."--Mustex (talk) 05:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Except Carter himself would be royally offended. And he's one of the best examples of a Christian living his faith there is today. MDB (talk) 14:45, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * As I said above, we just declare that he's teaching us by example to be humble when he denies that he is God.--130.160.99.1 (talk) 21:04, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Origins of religion
Interesting analysis. (via PZ) 22:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That was a good article. Thanks Toast! 23:39, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Anyone seen this?
Have any of you guys visited Less Wrong? It seems to have a similar mission re: promoting rationality. --DTK (talk) 01:53, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've read a little of Less Wrong, but not regularly. I suppose I should, but I can't help but find it really, really dry. 17:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Like this though: "Votes on posts are worth ±10 points, votes on comments are worth ±1 point. Users with sufficient karma (+20) can publish posts.  You can only downvote up to four times your current karma (thus if you never comment, you cannot downvote).  Comments voted to -3 or lower will be collapsed by default for most readers (if you log in, you can change this setting in your Preferences)" Dunno what, if anything, we could do with it.  21:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm still struggling to understand it! 21:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Their conversations seem a lot more intelligent than ours. But, as Armond says, they are pretty dry. 21:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They appear to drink far too little. And I finally understood the thing Toastie posted above after the tenth reading.  22:18, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't get it. But the last think I think RW needs is some sort of "karma" thing. I don't like it on internet forums and never have. 17:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You earn "karma" by getting votes on your lame comments. Once you have +20, you can make posts, and really pile up the points if people like your shit.  I still have no idea what the limitation on downvoting means. We have exactly the same system here, except for the points system, the "karma", and the voting.  18:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Snow Mas! Snow Mas!
I have spent every winter since 1986, with the exception of 1989, in the Baltimore-Washington area.

I had never seen a true blizzard until this weekend.

We are having another one right now.

This sucks rubber donkey lungs. MDB (talk) 14:47, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is bullshit. I called off of work today because of the road conditions.  I got as far as cleaning the car off, and said to hell with it.  The roads looked like hell (well, the opposite of hell, it is cold, you know).  We have another fresh 6 inches with nowhere to throw it.  And the temperature will not be high enough to melt it until at least 2 weeks from now.   15:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I can telecommute... as long as my power holds. The snow here seems to have stopped, or at least slowed down substantially, but the wind is awful.


 * As an aside, I haven't seen my partner in over three weeks now (we don't live together and just see each other on the weekends.) Three weeks ago, I was sick, two weeks ago we had six inches of snow, last weekend was Snowmageddon, and unless they get things cleared out really quick, this weekend is pretty iffy, too. At least we have our Valentine's Day reservations on the 20th and not the 13th. MDB (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Lucky you. My job requires that I be present, as it is mostly manual labor.  However, I did my job yesterday as if I were calling off today, so luckily I won't be too backed up tomorrow and/or my boss won't have to do my work.  That always makes me feel bad to get his hands dirty.  To bad a partner isn't something you can telecommute to.   16:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In New Jersey we have about 5-6 inches so far, but it's supposed to keep snowing for the next day or so. But since I'm sick anyway it isn't that bad. 16:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Get well soon, Tetsy! We have 21 inches from Friday-Saturday, 5 or 6 from today, and there is absolutely nowhere to put all of this white stuff.  Some of the main roads in my neighboring towns look like driving on the surface of Mars (sans red hue) for all of the ruts, craters, and washboard style terrains we have to try and navigate.  The whole Monongahela Valley will be at their auto repair shops getting front-end alignments once this is all said and done.   16:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, AN! And 21 inches - wow! My town would grind to a halt if that happened. We do have this new "brine" that we put on the roads before it snows, but it only helps if there is a small amount of snow. 16:45, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, and if I didn't tell myself daily smoking is a fucking stupid habit that i'm sorry I ever started, stepping out on the back porch during a blizzard to have a cigarette really makes me feel like a high-grade idiot. MDB (talk) 16:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * As far as telecommuting to my partner goes, well, we talk on the phone every night, and e-mail during the day, so it's not like we're out of touch. But you can't snuggle electronically. And I can't think of a better thing to do during a roaring blizzard than snuggle up next to someone you love. MDB (talk) 16:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * On the fun side, though, I have three words: Fire. Breathing Snowman. MDB (talk) 17:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that looks fun. 17:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see the fence between my neighbor's and my property. The Schuykill Expressway's closed in philly.... The world is ending!  Šţěŗĭļė 22:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know what you're all complaining about: we've got almost half a centimetre of the white stuff. DOOM! 23:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, you've got it rough Toast. I've now got about a foot or so, with more on the way today and tonight. 23:07, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Any amount over 1mm causes the southern half of the UK to come to a dead stop: trains, roads & airports just can't cope. Allegedly 'cause we don't get it often enough but, as they say the same thing every year, one has to wonder. 23:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we got 18 inches (45 cm). Just hope the roof is OK....  Šţěŗĭļė 00:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For what its worth, local radio in DC was saying modern roofs can handle foor feet of snow. So you should be all right. MDB (talk) 01:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 27 inches of snow on the roof and overhang over our bay window. Snow begins to melt and refreeze as ice, only to melt again from the heat of the house.  Overhang begins to leak one drop per second into the bay window.  If anyone has to Chinese Water Torture someone, here is the place to do it.   02:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify: 18 inches was from this part of the snowpocalypse. The other 12-ish were from Saturday's incarnation of the snomageddon.  Šţěŗĭļė 02:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this snow cap can help with Crundy's vindaloo recipe.  02:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

(UI) (EC) Only 16 inches here (I just measured). And thanks AN, I was wondering why there was water dripping off of my house - it's the heat from inside, of course. I couldn't figure out why it was happening since it's in the 20's (Fahrenheit, of course) outside. 02:28, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That is our assumption. Just looking at the overhang, there is a ton of snow on a very thick icy patch, complete with defensive weapon of icicles of at least 2 feet in length.   02:47, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I was very afraid when shoveling my walk - those icicles are pretty ominous looking. Not quite two feet yet though. It's still snowing like crazy, I can barely see the edge of my lawn. "Snowmageddon" indeed. 02:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You think that's bad, up here in the Twin Cities, not only do we get fuckin' feet of snow, but usually it is associated below zero fucking cold. I remember last winter, we got, like, 14 inches of snow and had wind chills around -40 degrees Fahrenheit.  04:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Some Flickr Piccies by a 16y.o lass 04:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Goonie, you live in Minnesota! That is what one would expect the weather to be like.  Not in places like DC or Maryland (Pittsburgh to a lesser degree, it does get regularly shitty here).  And those pics are just about right as to what we're looking at now.   11:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed -- this is not a typical Maryland winter. While they take several months to make it absolutely official, the National Weather Service has said this is the most snowfall in one winter in recorded history in DC, and that goes back over a hundred years (and we may get more Monday!) The Capital Weather Gang at the Washington Post said: "We are living through some of the most extreme winter weather we'll ever experience in the metro region this morning." My partner is from Chicagoland originally, where they know winter, and even he will admit this is a nasty winter. MDB (talk) 13:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a BBC report from downtown Washington. Looks awful! 13:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My front walk has been freed from the evil snow oppression. After some chow, I will conquer the attacking forces of snow around my garage.  I will win this war!  Šţěŗĭļė 13:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For the past storms, I've cleared my drive and walk ways the old fashioned way: pay kids from the neighborhood. I'm hoping they show up again today. I've probably bought them an XBox 360 or a PS3 by now; they need to get some games for it, too. (I pay them well. Besides the fact they do a good job, I think its good to encourage kids to be industrious.) MDB (talk) 13:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember being that industrious child, some 20 years ago of course. I shoveled all of my neighbors driveways, earning me enough money for a Super Nintendo and 5 games.   13:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

And from the HuffPo... Thirteen awesome things to do with the snow. Including the fire-breathing snowman from yesterday, a replica of one of the Calvin and Hobbes snowman strips. MDB (talk) 15:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You can never go wrong with a good old fashioned snowball fight to pass the time. Hell, my band and I had one the other night during a break from our rehearsal and, let me tell you, it's a hulluva way to relieve stress no matter how old/young you are. 15:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Sand Lizard
Last night the precious reserves of adrenaline that I had carefully stocked for the vicious month of February suddenly and unexpectedly ran dry. This, of course, caused me to completely go to pieces around a bar in full view of friends and strangers. The attack of dread, loathing and evil lethargy hit so hard and overwhelmingly that even my watch stopped. Its sits here now reading 11:03pm, a silent witness to my levees breaking. What happened after this is quite the mystery however I am in possession of a Key Card for a room at the Outrigger Resort in Hawaii and I seem have ripped one of my shoes nearly in half. Argh, this god damn month. A heavy duty bender over 4.5 weeks before I swan off to Samoa for a week to recover. I feel like a creeping sand lizard. Burnt out eyes, furry tongue, no dexterity, unfocused speech and a weird limp. Instead of working I am amusing myself by calling friends and making weird strangled sounds down the phone punctuated by moaning and wailing. Eventually they'll refuse to answer so I just leave long messages. My number is withheld on all caller ID's so they have no idea what kind demented manatee they could be dealing with. Ho ho ho. Acei9 21:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like fun. 23:17, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Was your bender better than any of these? 07:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

No tax? No spend!
"Colorado Springs cuts into services considered basic by many". See how it goes (Courtesy: MIKE THE MAD BIOLOGIST (Scienceblogs). 00:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I read about this last week on TNR, where they called it "Galt's Gulch" and were wondering why the free market hadn't stepped in to solve these problems.-- 00:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with these people, but I'd say that even if the free market could solve these problems, it wouldn't be able to, given that alot of these things deal with either government property (ie streetlights on sidewalks and roads, and parks), or things that private businesses aren't actually allowed to do (fighting fires and, definately, enforcing the law).--Mustex (talk) 21:53, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The first fire brigades in England were actually private organisations created by insurance companies. If you were insured by a particular company, such as Sun Alliance, you would have the insurance company logo (e.g. a sun) on your building and they would tackle a fire at your establishment, but not at anyone else's. 22:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

This President is a lying failure
In 2008, President Obama promised that he would not impose mandates in his health care plan for adults:

''Mr. Obama counters that Mrs. Clinton’s mandate won’t do the trick, either. She has not proposed especially tough penalties for people who ignore it.''

''“I don’t think that the problem with the American people is that they are not being forced to get health care,” Mr. Obama has said. “The problem is they can’t afford it.”''

Well, Obama lied, and thousands of uninsureds died. The mandate provision in the current proposal is why most is the main reason why NO health care reform has passed the strongest Democratic congress in decades.

Here is the current state of affairs after over a year in office:

1. No ban on rescission. Health insurance companies can still cancel you after you've been diagnosed with breast cancer in your 40s for the acne bout you did not disclose from your 20s.

2. No ban on insurance refusal for those with preexisting conditions. Good luck trying to get insurance coverage if you have cancer. Just go home and die.

3. With the exception of the recently laid off, no assistance for people who simply can't afford health insurance. Just like Obama said in 2008.

4. No proposed plan that will take effect until 2013. Obama can build bridges to nowhere with 20 days of taking office, but he can't save thousands of uninsureds during the term he was elected like he had promised?

5. No accountability in spite of having the largest majority in decades. Blame the Tea Partiers and Andy Schlafly all you want, but they're not the ones running the government. Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama are.

Why has the President failed so miserably? Maybe he just wants an issue. After all, how will Michael Moore make his next movie if things don't stay so messed up?

The Republicans have actually proposed a way to fund universal health care, but Barack Obama the politician refuses to deal with the Republicans. Dr. Tom Coburn has proposed an almost $6000 and ($11000 for poor people), refundable, advanceable tax credit to fund health care, while rescinding corporate tax credits for health care that only make employees wage slaves. That actually sounds like a liberal plan, quite frankly. It is beyond me why the President won't jump on that. Coburn's plan also provides consumer protections for preexisting conditions that exist for the group market currently. Why the President would not adopt Dr. Tom Coburn's bill while making some minor amendments as he sees fit to ease the burden on the poor (he has the leverage to do this) is beyond me.

ConservapediaEditor (talk) 04:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I always thought he should have taken the health care bill he wanted to Congress and said "here, vote on it" rather than leave it up to Congress to "debate". I am not an USian so have not been following it closely, but to me it looks like obstructionism has been taking place rather than discussion. If this Coburn plan is so good why has he not been shouting it from the roof tops, this is the first I have heard of it? 04:17, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The health care bill is a compromise between some subset of 438 Representatives, 100 Senators, and one President. I think to pin the blame solely on Obama is a bit disingenuous.  Šţěŗĭļė 04:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm, I thought the right-wing way was 'can't afford health insurance = tough shit if you die', thus I'm confused at your concern for 'uninsureds'. Incidentally, with our evil communist NHS here in the UK, I went down to my local GPs surgery at 8:05am on Tuesday morning, got an appointment to see the Doc at 9:20am, saw the Doc, and left a very satisfied customer.  But that's what happens with "the basis for treatment should be decided by medical need not ability to pay", disgusting eh?  04:47, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And the NHS doctors don't suffer: over £100,000 p/a (>$150k) for being responsible (not "working") for patients from 8am to 6.30pm on weekdays. 11:28, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Toast, you are citing the Daily Mail. Seriously. 22:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-428510/GP-salaries-rocket-118-000.html#ixzz0fE33wD81
 * Problem is that the new Hitlers are going to take your guns away for participating in that socialist act, oops too late. 04:50, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Gee CE, been in America long? You have some very interesting ideas about how American Government (specifically Democrat Government) works.   05:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You make some fair criticisms, but they're swamped amidst a tide of basic mistakes, CE.
 * It would be almost impossible to pass a bill that could take effect within the next couple years. These are huge changes being proposed, and three years to implement the future system is still a tight schedule.  Unless you are talking about the Republican alternative proposed last year, of course, which would essentially just be tort reform and inter-state transfer.  But major changes to a sector that comprises a fifth of the whole economy?  It takes a few years to get working.
 * What do you mean by "accountability?" That's a pretty broad criticism.
 * Points 1, 2, and 3 are all basically "no bill has been passed." But listing all the things wrong with the current system and then blaming Obama for them is a little short-sighted.
 * The "Coburn plan" of which you speak is commonly called the Ryan plan, and has been disavowed by the Republicans and it seems clear they're not actually behind it - plus it's a pretty terrible plan that focuses on the budget, not on health care. It includes Medicare cuts and a tax on the rich, which makes it anathema to the Republicans.  Boehner and McConnell have both said they won't get behind it.
 * Even if the Ryan plan stood a chance in hell of passing with even the Republican leadership avoiding it, it's a terrible plan. It tries to prohibit people from buying "junk food" with food stamps by having a board decide what poor people get to buy or not; it tries to fix torts by eliminating redress entirely and replacing it with a "health court" or a tribunal; the CBO seems to think that the tax cuts would do little to actually solve the state of insurance.  And those three things at the start of your list?  This bill doesn't actually fix them.  As you'd know if you'd read it.
 * So why should Obama get behind a bill that neither party even backs and that doesn't address the essential problems of health care in the country?-- 05:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's an additional takedown of the plan by Yglesias which details why it's crazy:-- 17:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The reason Obama didn't present a plan to Congress and say "here, vote on it" was that was exactly what Bill Clinton tried, and it failed. MDB (talk) 13:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * From this side of the Atlantic it appears that the Republicans are more interested in ensuring that Obama fails at everything he tries than ensuring good governance. He could produce the perfect Health bill and it would still get vetoed. Jack Hughes (talk) 13:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That is the perception of many of us here in the States, too. MDB (talk) 13:17, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, health care in the US is a good example of the prisoner's dilemma. No one's willing to give up anything in the name of the greater good, and so the system get abused.  Šţěŗĭļė 13:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you want to know the truth about Barry Obama? Acei9 21:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I never noticed it before but they quote http://www.conservapedia.com/Obama#cite_note-mind_control-30 this shite] in the article. 00:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Iraq/Iran advice
I found a rather interesting column on the tubes about some guy's perception on how we can actually achieve "victory" in Iraq. I am hesitant to place this on WIGO Blogs or WIGO World because I don't know where it should go. Here it is:  16:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I feel torn
Ok, now that I'm trying to rehearse my youtube videos more, I'm torn between various ideas, because I don't have time to rehearse and do them all. So, at the moment I'm torn between three ideas, and I want an opinion: 1)  A video that I post as a response to one of coughlan666's videos, in which I claim to be coughlan, and say that CassiusAlien, as punishment for my insolence, has caused me to switch bodies with some asshole named Mustex4...and caused me to lose my British accent.  Basically, I spend the whole video faking hysteria, begging for someone to believe me.  2)  (already have a script written for this one)  A video challenging creationists to prove that the Noah study is even possible by actually building a ship the size of the Ark, putting two of each kind in it, sailing it for 40-days and 40-nights without bringing in food or water from the outside, and do it all with no more crew than Noah had (him and his family). I would even give them the benefit of modern technology. 3) A video arguing that baraminology fails, because it requires "new information," just as evolution does.  The argument would be based on the Sloth.  Obviously, the Giant Ground Sloth didn't have tree-climbing instincts, so where did those instincts come from?--Mustex (talk) 00:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Darwin quote
From the Holydaze header: "We can allow satellites, planets, suns, [the] universe, nay whole systems of universe[s], to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act." Great quote. Funnily enough, creationists have finally realized the silliness of this position and have decided re-invent every branch of science to match their view. Just thought it was worth pointing out. 00:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Neveruse?
Does anyone have an e-mail addy on this guy? If so, can y'all drop him a line and tell hin i want to say "hey." TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:57, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What are you two on about then? 05:41, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

AFAIK, we're just yankin' on each others' chain. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 05:45, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My boss didn't appreciate the letter. 05:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait'll she sees the pictures. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 05:49, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Which category to use for CP articles?
I'm a bit confused between the "Category:Conservapedia article" and "Category:Conservapedia" categories. Would the former be used for articles that are based on a specific article at the other place, and would the latter be used for CP related articles that aren't specifically linked to any single article? -- 22:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. 22:36, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheers, Pi. -- 22:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Category:Conservapedia contains subcategories, therefore it should not have more than 200 articles. See Category talk:Conservapedia -- Nx  / talk 11:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The results of a youtube experiment
Ok, I decided to test creationists to see how willing they were to listen to or address any other points of view. So, knowing that the high-profile creationists would just ignore me, I went through some videos, and sent PMs to people making comments in support of creationism. In this PM I provided them a link to my video on proconsul and Baraminology (found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EjjMM2xzQA ). I received replies from 6 people. To be fair, one of these said he wasn't a creationist (and I apologized for wasting his time), and the other one appeared to be an Old Earth Creationist, and his only response was asking me where the Big Bang came from (I told him that, since I believe in God too, that isn't really much of an issue, and that was the end of it).

Of the remaining 4, one simply sent me a message saying "lol," and another one merely said "Darwinism is a myth, I don't have enough faith to believe it." (I replied to the former asking what he was talking about, and to the latter asking if he had specific criticisms of what was in the video) That leaves two, both of which I've been having ongoing conversations with. Neither of them have actually addressed the issue of determining primate baramins without including humans, but I have hope that one of them may given time (I'm willing to concede he might want to do some research), and at least attempted to form a secular argument (although he cited Expelled as "middle of the road" on the issue, and tried the thermodynamics ploy, I sent him back a reply on both of these).

The remaining one started out with the whole "nothing exploded and created everything!" argument. When I pointed out that I was a Christian (I had actually only told him I believed in God, he made the jump to "Christian," but whatever), sent a message berating me with a long stream of bible verses, and suggested that since I didn't believe in the bible I should take some test in a youtube video to see if I was a "good" Christian. I responded saying he was dodging the question, watched the first few seconds of the video, declared myself a failure when it said the bible was the "infallible word of God," sent him back a reply saying I failed, and asking him (once again) for a way of determining primate baramins. He simply sent me back this "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Timothy 4:3,4." I've since replied asking him, again to answer the failure simple question I put forward, which he has yet to even acknowledge.

Now I get to the really entertaining part: Despite the fact that not one of the people PMing me even attempted to answer the question I raised, and no one at all made a comment on the video itself where whatever they had to say would be public, I got 5 1-star ratings dumped on the video. So, apparently my issues aren't even worth addressing, but I need to be 1-starred. Nor, I suppose, can Baraminologists be expected to compare humans to "baramins," since we're assumed to be the exclusive descendants of Noah. Yeah, real scientific...--Mustex (talk) 20:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt they actually watched the video. I'm guessing they just saw that you were an evolutionist and down voted it. 22:30, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Further results: Another one both sent me a PM, and commented on the video, basically just saying that "evolutionists" created Proconsul without sufficient evidence (like Nebraska Man...).  As for the two I'm still having conversations with, one is still bombarding me with bible verses, no matter how many times I tell him I'm a Red-Letter Christian.  The other, though, has at least said he'll try to answer the question about primate baramins, but will need time to research it.--Mustex (talk) 14:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Wasabi Pringles
Okay, so I'm an idiot who falls for marketing and who occasionally forgets that he has different standards of "spicy" and "hot" than most of his fellow Germans.

But still, I feel cheated and I need to know if I was.

I bought Wasabi Pringles today (full title: "PRINGLES XTREME - FIERY WASABI"). The tube has a huge green X on it, a pot of green paste (which I assume to be either wasabi or Hulk jizz), and a thermometer-ish hotness scale that goes all the way to 11 (there is a tiny fire extinguisher icon, and the hotness level goes beyond that), so I expect good times.

I open the tube, take out a chip... and frown because it's not green. It looks completely blank. And it smells sour-ish.

Bad first impression, but whatever. I pop on in my mouth, munch munch munch... and it's just ewwww-sour. After a few seconds of grimacing because of the sour taste, there is... nothing.

THAT WAS IT.

No spicy feeling, no heat, no fire, no NOTHING. I JUST ATE A FRICKEN SOUR CREAM CHIP.

Now my question to the culinary experts: Am I doing it wrong?

Maybe that's the point? Is Wasabi just Asian sour cream or something? Is it not supposed to be hot and spicy? But if that's the case, then why do they slap all those "OH NOES!" warnings on it?

I'm severely disappointed. Maybe I should DIY some wasabi chips? Or just make a wasabi dip? You know, in the name of science and all that? --Sid (talk) 20:47, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Your first mistake was expecting anything Pringles makes to be anything but bland. As to wasabi, it's actually Japanese horseradish, and properly done is pretty spicy.  Although it's hot in a different way than hot peppers, where instead of the heat going down into the throat it goes up into the sinuses.  I hear there is (or was) a wasabi flavour of Doritos that was pretty good, but only available imported from Japan.  Never released on the North American market. --Kels (talk) 20:53, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * (EC, you beat me to making the same comments, Kels)
 * Your mistake was expecting any flavour of Pringles to taste any different from every other flavour of Pringles. Yes, wasabi should be spicy - wasabi sauce (for sushi) is very spicy if you accidentally get too much of it, but in a mustardy way rather than a chilli kind of spiciness.  Wasabi-flavour snacks are variable.  I've had wasabi peanuts a few times, & some brands are painfully spicy but others are very tame.  I've had wasabi-flavoured ice cream in Japan.  It was just spicy enough & very tasty, but gave me indigestion for about an hour afterwards.   20:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks, you two! Sounds like I have to rely on trial&error or on DIY flavoring to get proper wasabi chips then. TO THE ASIA STORE! --Sid (talk) 21:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My trouble with wasabi is I have to be careful it doesn't set off my reflux. I made the mistake of having just a little too much at my pre-animation grad party, and spent about three hours with severe heartburn and near-vomiting.  Wasabi is a treacherous mistress! --Kels (talk) 21:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've had those chips, and I was similarly disappointed. To make them better I ended up dipping them in some Mexican hot sauce. Now that's some multiculturalism for you. 22:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sid: Agree totally. A work colleague brought in a tube of them and they were'nt hot at all. We just got some of our wasabi paste from the fridge and pepped them up a bit :) 22:50, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Roasted wasabi peas are a spicy favourite in the Practice house. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

T-mobile
So here I am enjoying complimentary wifi on a Virgin train and my default google page is google.de and it's all in German. 22:04, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Und wo ist das Problem? :D (Though you should be able to just select "Google.com in English" in the lower right area to fix it.) --Sid (talk) 22:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, it isn't really a problem and I know T-Mobile is German but I just thought that they might have localised their service. 22:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

TK Mobile?
TK August 21 at 5:41 pm

Re: Post 4;

Well, while I can support some of their environmental theses - I think that some of the protest behaviors exhibited by Greenpeace are those of “nutcase” lefties. Likewise, and though it was long ago, and while I often thought that some of the anti-war and anti-establishment protests of the late ‘60s and early ‘70s did have some legitimate points to make, I nevertheless also believed that many were of a style that I would call “nutcase” leftist.

Personally, if I was running a so-called public “Town Hall meeting” - NOBODY with a gun gets in; NOBODY with signs depicting the U.S. President as Hitler gets in; nobody carrying signs or banners with Nazi or Nazi-style symbols gets in; and, if I’m Barney Frank and some woman carrying a large Obama-as-Hitler sign asks me “Why are you supporting Nazi-style health care?” - I do ask here which planet she’s from - and I do tell her I think she’s dumber than my dining room table - and I ask her and her sign to leave the room immediately accompanied by one of the sergeants-at-arms!

(Note that Barney Frank is Jewish. His family lost considerable numbers to the Nazi death camps.  And the German National Health Care System - and which exists today in virtually its original form - was actually founded in 1883 - some 49 YEARS BEFORE Hitler came to power in Germany.)

P.S.

Frankly, though, today, I don’t think the extreme left-wing has any organized “protestors” comparable to the gun-totin’, bomb-throwin’, military style, Aryan-power, white power, neo-Nazi, skinhead, anti-government, anti-tax and so-called militia groups - nor anything akin to the KKK - even the so-called and supposedly toned-down “modern” version.

I dunno if it's our sweet ol' TK but it sounds like her. 23:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC) CЯacke ®
 * Nah, no way that's our lovable TK. That post actually makes sense. 23:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno shit stirrer extraordinaire...showing up as a liberal on a conservative blog. Interesting nonetheless. CЯacke ® 06:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, that's not his writing style. This person knows how to use commas.  16:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Sarah Palin is a sick fuck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65pkH9r5DdA --Mustex (talk) 00:33, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now Sarah Palin is going to find this guy, go to his boss and demand he be fired. It seems likely to happen, just like the scenario this guy stated about the naming with the nurse--Thanatos (talk) 05:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * While I'm sure it was unintentional, that's quite hilarious. 12:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Can anyone verify this claim that Down syndrome (Trisomy-G) is regularly referred to as "triG"? The video links to WP's trig disambiguation page, but link to Down syndrome on that page was just added today, by an anon (I'm thinking this guy himself). DickTurpis (talk) 12:43, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking on Google, it looks like the sole use of TriG to refer to Downs has to do with Palin theories. So I doubt it's a common term in medicine, although that doesn't mean she couldn't have come up with the contraction on her own.  Just makes it less likely. --Kels (talk) 13:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sarah Palin is the Marcus Cicero of politics: everyone ought to ignore her, but just can't seem to. Šţěŗĭļė 16:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The Archivist cautiously declares this usage confirmed: . Pretty damn rare though - that was the only thing I found that wasn't Palin related. I don't buy the Youtube guy's theory at all. --  = w =  00:28, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Another: . --  = w =  00:36, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That is all I found. Notice - both were from after Palin's campaign. It could be a slang term inspired by Trig himself. Status - inconclusive. --  = w =  00:44, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nevermind the abbreviation TriG, can anyone find a reference to Down Syndrome referred to as Trisomy G (rather than Trisomy 21) that predates the birth of Trig Palin? Right now I'm having trouble doing so. DickTurpis (talk) 04:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Trig was born after 1969, right? --  = w =   04:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * try scholar.google.com for trisomy G, there are references to D,E,X,and a few others. It looks like a standard naming but I could not find an abreviation tri G although I suppose a Doctor might shorthand it. It seems like a strange thing to use as a childs name. It could be worse , if it had been a girl would they have named it Somy ? :( Hamster (talk) 05:29, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Cherie
Can't find the thread about Judge Blair but PZ's picked it up. 16:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * (Refer RDnet)
 * Try the forum.  16:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheers, Lil! 16:58, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Uncool situation
I've been living in my student accommodation with seven other people for about 5/6 months now. I get on incredibly well with basically all of them. There are two guys that share a room downstairs that smoke weed quite a bit though it doesn't really bother me. There's a girl that lives in the room opposite me who's basically lived with someone I assume is her boyfriend since we moved in. She always has a group of friends over at late hours (usually from 11pm onwards) and I here them watching TV, etc, which has pissed me off a fair bit given the noise when I'm trying to sleep. All irrelevant anyway; this fair morn I woke up and either her boyfriend or one of the many people who hang round her house were having a row and the bloke was screaming "fucking liar," etc at her. I've also heard a few mighty thumping sounds that sound suspiciously like the girl hitting the floor, followed almost immediately by the sound of the girl screaming. I say girl. I think she's about 19/20. Anyway, I just moseyed on over to the loo to have a good old fashioned shit and noticed there is a mobile phone in the toilet bowl. Now, my fellow RationalWikians, are these things: a) good, or b) average, or c) bad?

11:50, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd advise you to talk to your university or SU welfare officers about it, voice some concerns and see what they say - it'd be a little more easy and anonymous than trying to confront the row itself. By and large, police or other officials don't get involved with domestic fights unless one of them makes a complaint directly. I've seen similar stuff before, but that doesn't make it good or even average. 11:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I know - I was leaning towards c) bad, and was thinking about going to report it as I'm pretty sure there was domestic violence there. However, I left my room shortly after posting the above and campus security were right outside my room talking to the bloke that I've known to be practically living there for the last few months. I had a shower, went downstairs later and my other housemates said the girl and the bloke walked out the house escorted by 2 or 3 paramedics and security. I think our cleaner reported them, as she was downstairs this morning and later on there was a different bloke finishing off the job, and I was the only one in the house that heard anything. 12:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Living in HoR is probably the weirdest thing in one's life. I had a fucking twat who thought he was a supercool MC who would have room parties with his mates with garage music at full pelt at 3am on weeknights, and one time he bollocked me in the morning when I had a massive hangover because I'd left one of my pans and my collander dirty in the sink, and that the kitchen utensils "belong to everyone in the flat" and that I'm being very selfish by not washing up my stuff right away. I promptly removed all my belongings from the kitchen and informed my flatmates that if anyone wants to borrow anything then feel free to ask me. He never spoke to me again and moved out a month later. Result!! 22:57, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've generally been quite lucky - just this girl opposite me blasting fucking Eastenders out her shitty laptop speakers at 3AM. It's very frustrating when you're dozing off and you're awoken by the ending motif of "duhhh, duhhh, duh-duhhhh, duhhh, duhhhhhhhhhhhh," or a character screaming which I'm sure occurs at least twice every show. And these two rudies downstairs that smoke weed all hours of the day. My dad drove me back to uni after the Xmas break in early January and when I walked into my halls it felt like walking into a fucking drug den. 12:24, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Guys who smoke weed perpetually are a permanent feature of halls. So is putting up with other people's noise, unfortunately.  At least in the first year, anyway.   12:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, me and all my friends have learnt that first hand. Fortunately the guys I'm moving in with in September I now know properly and will not be so annoying as to play the world's most depressing soap opera at 3AM. 15:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can tick that box. The place stank. 19:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

If Atheists Went to Heaven
This is hilarious (although I still love the song "Our God is an Awesome God," and kinda wish they hadn't used it as an example of really annoying worshipers): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLGGKraKmXc  --Mustex (talk) 23:57, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehehe, interesting. 03:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I was laughing quite loud through the first minute. "So you're an atheist?" ... ... ... "COME HERE YOU!!!" And high pitched voices are inherently funny, 19:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That vid is quite good.  20:00, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Spectacular Secret of the Sphinx Revealed
BBC News reports on excavation of the Sphinx. True Nature of Egyption Pyramid revealed. Egyptologists confounded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RkCwLohZaI&feature=related Hamster (talk) 05:18, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That's BBC International (Bremen Broadcasting Corporation) not British Broadcasting Corp. Oh those Germans, what a sense of humour they have. 14:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

End of the World (Part 1)
So does anyone fancy splashing out $79.99 to find out how to survive the coming Armageddon? 10:14, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Do they accept post-dated cheques? -- Psygremlin  12:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Why are the DVDs radioactive? --⁠ (talk) 16:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You can get MY set How to Face the coming Armageddon for a low $19.95, or for a mere $9.95 Nebiru, Marduk and the Reptilian Overlords, A How to get along guide for Christians.  Hamster (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Does it include a section on controlling zombies for fun and profit?--Thanatos (talk) 02:25, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You dont CONTROL zonbies, you UNLEASH them in hordes. Watch Resident Evil again ! Hamster (talk) 03:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

"God works in mysterious ways"
When talking to religious nuts and pointing out many illogical things in Bible this is their usual response. How do you counter that? It pretty much renders any argument about logic useless because they'll just keep repeating that. Mr.Orange (talk) 12:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That really is the problem with debating any religious nutter - as many here who have edited at ASK know full well. If logic was an effective argument then these people would have given up ages ago. 13:21, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You could ask them for an example of god working in mysterious ways in the bible. Then point out their examples had a clear cause & effect. Repeat until they feel bad about themselves. --Swedmann (talk) 13:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As Ricky Gervais said, "God works in mysterious ways" is the theological equivalent of saving "Look over there!" then running away. 13:56, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly SJ. It's a kind of just-so story that's peculiar to religionists. You don't get to re-assume all the defeated premises simply because you're losing. That's about all you have to know about it. 14:20, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would have used falsifiability at that point in the argument. That probably won't convince them, but it's something. 14:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep. That's the problem with these kinds of ad hoc explanations. They are inherently unfalsifiable. But the insulting bit about being confronted with them is that they entail the opponent circled his wagons and either moved the goalposts or went straight back to a contested premise. In either case the opponent either has no respect for you intellectually, which I take to be the case with people like PJR, or doesn't know better and isn't worth your time. This goddidit shit is a huge red flag that there's absolutely no point in continuing the discussion. 15:52, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The issue with that the way I see it (although this isn't 100% original) is that if you want to exclude God from logic, by claiming that "God works in mysterious ways" then you can't use the same logic to prove that God exists. So that leaves them with nothing other than asserting that they're right, which can have no effect on you. So if you don't believe, there's nothing they can or should do to influence you (i.e., STFU) - because the only way to convert or convince someone is with a logical argument, but if the same logic then contradicts and disproves them... well, it all gets a bit circular, but it's certainly what I think we're starting to call "escape hatches" 19:45, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Women and jewelry - loving partners or money grubbing whatevers ?
As Valantines day approaches the tv advertising has gone into hyperdrive. Two ads in particular seem to be competeing for the available dollar. "Every kiss begins with Kay's" for Kay's Jewlers and "He went to Jarrods" for the other. The underlying message to men seems to be that if you didnt go to Jarrods you're a cheap bastard, and if you dont go to Kay's you wont get kissed (or anything else). What do people think ? Hamster (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Mornace noesdt mese ot eb rowht eth fortef×. 21:33, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * These ads are obviously working toward an appeal to emotion on this stupid Hallmark holiday. As an aside, I remember a commercial that ran on a local radio station for Valentine's Day that read "Cupid's hit the mark this time, can't get her out of your mind..."  Then they ran the same commercial for Mother's Day.  WTF does Cupid have anything to do with that? (well, obviously that is kinda how mom became a mom, but still).  22:27, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is an old article but essential reading if you are considering buying expensive jewellery. 15:08, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

NGE
I am currently dancing to the Neon Genesis Evangelion theme. Why aren't you? And why am I the most drunk of all of RW right now? 02:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Because your lonely :).(I have been watching Eva since I got high speed last week)--Thanatos (talk) 02:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * By lower digestive system feels like Bhopal. But it was so worth it for the eye candy last night. 09:29, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

...Now you got to kiss me
...No we Don't W.--Thanatos (talk) 02:58, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the billboard is not supposed to be ironic, and the hicks from Michele Bachmann's district are happy it's there. That billboard, in my opinion, shouldn't be taken down. Rather it should be moved a bit more north, as well as should Michele Bachmann.  08:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

My Status
OK, It is now almost 4:30 in the morning (Mountain time) my friends have just left for the night and I am fucking smashed, topping out at about 15 or 16 shots of Vodka, Whiskey and Rum. It's a rather fun moment in my life. For those who care, this was the 7th annual Anti-Valentine's Day Party. A great time for one and all. 11:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I splashed out this morning on a huge box of fancy liqueur-filled choccies, for the person who loves me most. I'm about half-way through them at the moment. -- Psygremlin  11:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm spending Valentines Day with my friends walking down to the local supermarché for the weekly shop and maybe watching a film tonight with my friend, who is a girl but despite what everyone thinks, no. Last night me and 2 friends went to pub and got quite drunk as it was pound-a-pint Saturday. I think I totalled about 7 or 8 beers. The night ended with one of my friends going to a girl sitting near us asking for a fruit pastel to give me other friend. Then she pretty much said no, so we ran away. Good times. 13:07, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

New articles
There's a discussion here about whether to showcase new RW articles, in the style of WP's "Did You Know" main page thingy. What do you lot think? Totnesmartin (talk) 19:07, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Theoretically we already do, somewhere on the RationalWiki: To do list. But it's one of those things that's either not done enough or tends to be ignored anyway.   22:39, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

CWC?
So I'm asking myself, is this the real Christian Weston Chandler of ED fame, or someone pretending to be him? It's really hard to tell, although nobody else seems to have twigged on it yet. --Kels (talk) 22:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Beck's "Arguing with Idiots"
I'm reading it now. It's pretty awful, it's just a collection of false analogies, style over substance arguments and straw man arguments. In fact, the book is structured so as to be a giant straw man argument. Though is it interesting to see the "paranoid style" in action, the book is poorly written and blatantly ignores facts. Thankfully, I also got my hands on Richard Dawkins's new book to read afterwards. 15:17, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What else did you expect? Totnesmartin (talk) 19:08, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well...nothing. 22:59, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I should read some Coulter and Beck, I just want to see for myself if they're as badly written as their TV personalities would suggest. 08:38, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Homeskollars
A bit about a creationist "science " fair in Roseville Minnesota, USofA. 23:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dinosaurs went extinct because they were too big to fit on the ark? What about the little ones, like the velociraptor?--Thanatos (talk) 00:40, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fuck, that's scary. I feel bad for the kiddies. 04:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Velociraptors, like all dinosaurs before the flood, existed on a vegetarian diet of grapes, oranges and lettuce. After they got off the ark, these foods were scarce, and the FALL made them carnivours. They ate a floating cow , got horribly sick and died. Sad really. Hamster (talk) 04:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And I assume that's real, rather than the photoshopped (but still totally hilarious) picture that tends to circulate regarding creationist science fairs. 08:37, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Not fucking amused
It's 05.43AM on Monday morning according to my computer. The same girl that I wrote about in the above thread "uncool situation" is absolutely fine. "How do I know?" you ask? She's in her room opposite the hall pumping away with someone right now. She was playing her shitty R&B out her phone earlier (she's black and listens to that stuff) to cover it up I believe. A few minutes ago I think she just gave up on the pretext of subtlety, so her and her gentlemen friend are just getting on with it. I'm glad they're enjoying their Valentines Day, but this is less than amusing to a guy that has to listen to her fucking noise moving all over the house over the course of the night all the time anyway. I have no cigarettes to go outside and smoke about a million of them to calm down and hope to exhaust my pathetic body into forced sleep, and no friends houses I can go to at nearly 6AM to ask if I can sleep because my housemate's thinking about no one but herself. So, I popped in my iPod and I'm now listening to the Clash. Great music, but not exactly the kind that's easy to drop off to. Anyone recommend any good new-agey, instrumental crap that I can download right fucking now and try and fall asleep to? 05:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would just give up trying to sleep at quarter to six in the morning. Make an early start on today, then go to bed an hour earlier tonight, you won't even notice the difference by tomorrow. 05:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've pretty much already decided to do that. Sleeping's a lost cause by now. I hate my fucking housemate. Even now they're done I can hear them watching TV or some shit. Fucking inconsiderate cunt. 05:58, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Your only real option long term is to become the house tyrant so they are to scared of making a noise less it offends you. My office at uni is dead quite. 06:02, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There's some good fall-asleepy songs on Sandinista! That album has a bit of everything. Try some Rebel Waltz, If Music Could Talk, Shepherds Delight, and a few others. You'll be deep in slumber in no time. And I mean that in a good way. DickTurpis (talk) 06:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Get a fucking grip of yersel' Josh man. Although any kind of music playing on a mobile phone does do my fucking head in.  07:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is where you download a couple of hours of hardcore goat porn, put it on a loop, turn the volume up and lock the door securely while you go away for the weekend. 08:33, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't have to be black to listen to R&B.-- 09:33, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My neighbour has done that with his alarm clock. Four days going by now. And I don't find the correct breaker to pull. I hate it. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. (feel much better now, thanks for your attention) — Pietrow   ☏  11:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * KAA - you're right. However, it seems most of that genre's fanbase are African/Caribbean communities. At 6AM I just got up, layered a few t-shirts and jumpers on and went out to the town for a walk for about an hour. By the time I came back they'd finished shagging (thank Christ) and I managed to sleep for a few hours. DT, cheers, I'll look into that stuff now. 11:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm, sorry if my comment came across as a bit picky. Glad you are feeling better. I recommend Chill Out by the KLF as perfect fall-asleep music, though it may not be loud enough to blot out your neighbours.-- 11:58, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear it, SJ. If it makes you feel better, my V-Day was spent playing "Risk" with my friends. Pretty pathetic. 14:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No sweat Kriss, no offence taken. I wasted no time in telling my friends about the highly psychologically damaging experience, and one of them just leant me four easy listening CDs. Hooray! My other housemate just came in and informed me that he's reported the offending shagger - the guy she was shagging has been here since we moved in, and we've found out she reported she lost her key less than a week after we moved in, so she got a second key with her boyfriend keeping the first. Safe to say goodbye to him I think.  16:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Now I'm confused. Was last night's shagger this term's boyfriend, or the guy she was seeing on the side?  18:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Listen to Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works. Acei9 20:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Odd
It has occured to me that AON it's impossible to sign up at CP, anyone know why?--Ipatrol (talk) 00:46, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Standard operating procedure: things are turned on and off at the lord and master's whim. 00:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Preacher refuses to give money to people God is judging (Haiti)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI42qZBQcbw&feature=sub --Mustex (talk) 01:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to have a terrible V-day weekend
My gf was supposed to take a train trip from Atlanta to Tuscaloosa to see me. But, the train got snowed in, and so she can't. So, I don't have anyone to cuddle with, or even watch movies with. Which is why I'm actually drinking right now, which in turn is why I'm actually telling any of you this (...I'm not too bad though, I had a big meal first, so I'm not saying anything that I think I'll terribly regret later, this is hardly secret).--Mustex (talk) 23:10, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I know how that feels. I had to get CPR recertification today so I could keep my job, and I could not spend this weekend with my girlfriend. 00:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * CPR and girlfriends just shouldn't be mentioned together, too many necrophilia connotations...   02:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Mustex, it may be terrible to not share v-day together, but you still have each other. Not so bad, I hope?  Call her.  02:59, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Shut the fuck up all of you. I've been alone for over half a year now. And you know who I'm spending Valentines Day with? Internet porn. 03:04, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And we all know you'll die that way... 03:08, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Porn is so much more boring than the real thing.  04:29, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'M SO ALONE! I long for an Anchorman themed Valentines Day, in which i get off with someone the previous night, then walk into the office the next day and shout at the top of my voice, "VERONICA CORNINGSTONE AND I HAD SEX AND NOW WE ARE IN LOVE!" Then I end the conversation with a rendition of Afternoon Delight. 13:02, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If it helps, just think of StVD as just another opportunity for the blood sucking corporate leeches of the flower, chocolate and gift card word to part you from your hard earned cash. By being single, you are fighting the system! Be strong! And tomorrow, when you see all the Easter decorations in the shops, you'll feel much better, knowing you didn't succumb. -- Psygremlin  13:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Mrs Hughes and I long ago decided not to do Valentines day. The expectations are far too high and, unless it's the most romantic day ever, it's bound to be a let down. So, here I am in the office whilst Mrs H is off out at the casino playing poker. That doesn't mean that we won't soon have a special night together, just not on this day. Additionally the Scrooge in me objects to paying over the odds at any restaurant we choose. Better by far to have it when we want to. Jack Hughes (talk) 13:22, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't actually give a crap about Valentines Day. I remember last year (or maybe the year before?) my brother asking me if I was doing anything with my girlfriend. Apart from having sex, I said no and he called us both "horrible goth children." Highly amusing. Valentines Day's a pile of shit anyway. Just like Christmas, it's been turned into another consumer holiday. Though i love Xmas. 13:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Mrs. Practice and I have to spend the weekend apart because of work/school obligations. We're both down about it, but only realized last night that we were missing V-Day together--not a big deal, in that we don't "do" holidays, but still a drag that she ain't around. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 15:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is the first StVD without "soon to be Mrs. Noise", so it is really a downer, even though I never put much credence in this holiday. At least I don't have to dish out a bunch of money for an overly expensive dinner, chocolates, jewelry, etc ("soon to be Mrs. Noise" liked material things, and this holiday meant 100X more to her than me).  I'm just going to watch the NASCAR race with my Dad and drink beer.   16:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Since my partner works Sundays, we're celebrating V-Day this coming Saturday. We're going to a French restaurant near him that's reputedly quite good. And getting him to go there is a neat trick; I like fine dining and fancy foods, but he's very much a "meat and potatoes" type.


 * But just to show you what a cool boyfriend I have... I usually send him flowers for Valentine's Day. He said just send the money to the Red Cross for Haitian earthquake relief instead. And I did. MDB (talk) 15:38, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Visitors
We've had visitors (t' other half's brother & his wife) since Sunday. Can now revert to being a slob! 23:28, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Having visitors is stressful. On the bright side, it does at least mean the house gets a good clean before they arrive. Bondurant (talk) 09:40, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Xtreme Politically Active Conservatives meeting
Attracting kids with hip, cool words daddy-o. Don't be a square, sign up today cool cat!--Thanatos (talk) 23:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Cool conservatives" - isn't that an oxymoron? 13:45, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * in a world of Conservative Party Conference chillout rooms and the extreme teen bible it's hardly a surprise. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

JD Hayworth, proof of evolution?
This may be a cheap shot, but, is it just me, or does this picture of Arizona Republican JD Hayworth look like proof that man evolved from some form of ape ancestor? 06:34, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, he reminds me of the idiot I graduated high school with who managed to get elected to County Commission. MDB (talk) 11:58, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

A little Help
I just need some help from my more technologically gifted brothers (or sisters). I have been voted President of my college fencing club, and I would like to set up a website. Nothing fancy, just something to get our name out to the student body. Anybody here know a good free hosting or service.... Or one cheap enough for poor college students to afford? Thanks in advance 09:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd bet a dollar your college student organizations committee or the like has this service for free - do other student groups have websites under the college domain? How about free student pages? Every academic institution I've attended since the early 90's has had this for free to students. 15:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nutty Roux's suggestion is a fine one, but failing that... I doubt you'd find a reputable commercial free hosting service, unless you just want to create a facebook page, or go with something that will be filled with ads.


 * I support a web site that uses netfirms, and I've been happy with them. We pay about $120/year, but that includes a few add on features you may not need. MDB (talk) 15:46, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Google does this for free and has some free templates. There are also tons of free templates on the web and pay ones you can steal on bit torrent. 15:57, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll grant that google would qualify as a "reputable commercial free hosting service". MDB (talk) 17:22, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Help
I linked to TVtropes earlier this morning and now I have about 30 tabs open there. HHHEELLLPP MEEee eee ... Totnesmartin (talk) 13:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * TVtropes is the worst. I recommend stepping away from the computer entirely. 15:40, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Find one of the anime discussions and it will bore you with its extreme length and make you close them all. It's like if I get stuck on a wiki-walk, I just head to Cradle of Filth and view the "genre" discussion. Kills the mood, but it's the only way to escape. 15:59, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Satan's Rapture
After a short discussion on TimeCube, someone forwarded this to me. I'm not sure if RW has looked at it before, it seems familiar, but either way, it's nice to keep bringing up some of the really odd stuff every now and then. 16:00, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Holy fuck, my eyes hurt after reading that. I hope it's a Poe. 16:03, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'm calling Poe. There are a few phrasings in there that look like deliberate jokes. --Kels (talk) 16:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * links to his radio show although I didn't listen in - so that's an expensive poe to host. But like kels, I smell a rat. Totnesmartin (talk)

Whether Poe or not, I give him credit for this: He leaves up his prophecies that don't come true as well (such as Israel attacking Iran sometime in Sep. 08). Now, he doesn't acknowledge these anywhere else... Researcher (talk) 16:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Anyone seen this?
it's quite good, even if it does use the same webskin as icanhascheezburger. The page on homosexuality is Godwin central, though, so do not swallow whole. Totnesmartin (talk) 20:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the warning on the front page: "Pace yourself. Seriously. There is a great deal of information here, which can quickly become overwhelming." 20:58, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Is this argument new?
Been debating with a guy who appears to be an old-earth creationists on youtube (I always thought they were a bit smarter...I was wrong...), and to explain why traits appear to be distributed based on similarity (and hence descent) rather than usefulness to the animal, he's basically arguing that God had to create "balance" to prevent his creation from destroying itself (hence, bats with solid bones). Anyone heard this before?--Mustex (talk) 22:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it isn't new. It is the creationist answer to adaptation and natural selection. Rather than have what is, in essence, the chaos of nature control the chaos of nature, there was, purportedly, a set order to keep balance. Of course, then, how does extinction occur? Hmmmm, one could almost use some form of that as an argument against the Gaia hypothesis as well. Although I think we can all agree that it is, pretty much, a failed hypothesis. But, back to topic...... 23:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, listen carefully, I shall say this only once, God (or Gaia) loves certain creatures sooo much that he cant stand to have them away from himself, so he arranges their horrible lingering deaths ascension to heaven, so they can be with him always. Hamster (talk) 00:50, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Dawkins's new book
I've read about half of it, and I have to say it is awesome. He is particularly harsh on creationists, often to the point of being unprofessional, but in terms of presenting pro-common descent arguments it is excellently structured and perfectly paced. A great read. 21:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just started reading it, it's seems pretty good so far. I really like Dawkins's lack or respect for religionists, society shouldn't feel the need to humour ridiculous sueprstitions and beliefs.  Great apostrophe BTW, Tet.  14:33, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh heh, thanks. 15:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The Trinity is a Pretzel, Says a Christian
This was logged on the League of Reason's IRC chat on February 16th, 2010. Scarified2012 is a Christian attempting to describe the "3 and 1" nature of the Holy Trinity. (23:30:49) (scarified2012) It's like a pretzel (23:30:56) (scarified2012) I know this is a ridiculous example but listen (23:30:57) • rfranknj lol (23:31:02)     —› quit: (Morts) (53593abb@widget.mibbit.com) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) (23:31:04) (rfranknj) ok continue (23:31:09) (scarified2012) You know how the whole thing is one object (23:31:12) (scarified2012) It's ONE pretzel right? (23:31:24) (scarified2012) But there's three connecting parts (23:31:24) (rfranknj) i know where you're goign with that idea (23:31:29) (TheFearmonger) *headdesk* (23:31:30) (scarified2012) I'm talking about a twisty pretzel by the way. (23:31:32) (rfranknj) it's an interesting comparison (23:31:35) (rfranknj) but (23:31:37) (TheFearmonger) omg (23:31:37) (rfranknj) it doesn't really apply here (23:31:41) (rfranknj) i mean (23:31:43) (scarified2012) It's three in the same but separate at the same time. (23:31:44) (rfranknj) god is not a pretzel

"'God is not a pretzel.' ~rfranknj" What do you all think? LoR thought that "God is not a pretzel" was hilarious. AndroidWe are all machines 05:28, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Is god a series? --Swedmann (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Jews & financial success
This article suggests (half in jest) that the reason that the PIIGS group of economies may be in trouble is that they don't have enough Jews. The recent equality report for the UK broke down family wealth by religion (or lack of) and is shown in this Guardian graphic. The breakdown is: Thoughts, anyone? 16:02, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Jewish - £422k
 * Sikh - £229k
 * Christian - £223k
 * Hindu - £206k
 * Other religion - £161k
 * No religion - £138k
 * Muslim - £42k
 * Those figures aren't on the graphic you link to. I find much to doubt about them, starting with the range. Why are Muslims so much outliers, and Jews almost double the nearest group? Also I would expect 'No religion' to include a large chunk of the educated middle classes - are the really second from bottom? A lot more detail is required. Jack Hughes (talk) 16:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And the fastest growing economies, Brazil, India and China are hardly awash with Jews, are they? (Yes, I know they are outside Europe) This is ludicrously simplistic. The PIIGS are suffering due to a load of different reasons, such as unstable governments, corrupt governments, or the inflexibility of the Euro to allow different interest rates in wildly differing member states.
 * As for the wealth by religious allegiance, this has nothing to do with the prosperity of the nation as a whole, and are down to many different reasons also. For example, many Sikhs, Hindus (and Jains) tend to live far longer as family groups (at least until marriage) than their Christian or atheist peers. Bondurant (talk) 16:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's just a classic case of correlation does not equal causation. As for why "no religion" is so low, my first guess would be that many people in the PRC (which, after all, practices state atheism) are non-religious and poor. As for why Muslims are so poor - probably because a substantial number of them live in 3rd-world Middle Eastern or African nations, bringing down the average. 16:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My reading was that the figures were for the UK which rules out most of your explanations although I can see that, if they're global it makes more sense. Whichever, any correlation is almost certainly not causation as you say. Jack Hughes (talk) 16:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. I didn't look too closely at the article. 17:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If John Cleese is so "professional", why is his tie sloppily loosened? 19:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Beck vs. Bill Nye and Rachel Maddow
Funny as hell. Pwned--Thanatos (talk) 17:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Inertia is a property of matter, and stupidity is a property of Glenn Beck. Wodewick Welease Wodewick! 21:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we should steal the "out to get you so be afraid!" bit. 21:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Term for Zarathustra?
Hey, I know that Nietzche didn't literally believe that God was dead, but simply that God never existed, but I was wondering: what would you call someone who literally believed that there used to be a God, but wasn't anymore? It seemed like "atheist" wouldn't be quite accurate.--Mustex (talk) 23:00, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If he were a former priest of aforementioned god then I'd call him unemployed. -- 23:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Or Unitarian Universalist. Badum-ching! --Kels (talk) 23:15, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably some form of deist, but I don't think many people would believe that anyway. The concept of an infinite & omnipotent being isn't easily compatible with the concept of that being ceasing to exist.   23:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the norse gods, according to their mythology, would mostly die in the ragnarok thing, but then that would also be the end of everything. -- 23:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless you follow the Marvel Comics take on Norse gods, which features a Ragnarok story every few years (and yes, they did call one "Ragnarok and Roll").


 * Seriously, though, I don't think you'd find many, if any, people who believe in something on the lines of the Abrahamic God, but consider Him to be dead. I think the closest you'd find is people who considers God to be dead as far as they're concerned, perhaps due to a "crisis of faith", kind of a hostile agnosticism.


 * Now, James Morrow did write a series of novels, starting with Towing Jehovah, where the entire concept is that Jehovah quite literally died, but that's hardly the basis for anyone' religion. MDB (talk) 12:10, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * postheist or transtheist? CS Miller (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks.--Mustex (talk) 15:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Argumentum Ad Facebookum
"we can find 1,000,000 people who don't believe in Evolution befor June" (Wonder if they learned capitalization & spelling from Andy's writing class?)
 * 67,064 fans since January 5, 2010

"We can find 1,000,000 people who DO believe in Evolution before June"
 * 281,385 fans since January 14, 2010

The comments and nonsense on the first one are hysterical. Didn't know Ken had that many Facebook accounts, but I wonder what his favorite trend forecaster would think of this? --SpinyNorman (talk) 15:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I quite enjoy those groups. They put the subject back on the menu after the other groups sort of dried up. 15:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * While I am a member of the second group, I am fully aware that the fact a group can get X members on Facebook is about as meaningful as the web polls that had Ron Paul sweeping the 2008 Republican primary. MDB (talk) 15:31, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we're all aware of that. The "I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who DON'T want David Cameron for PM" group clearly doesn't understand the scale and scope of election demographics in the UK... 15:39, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Right now I'm enjoying watching everyone tear their hair out over Liam Gallagher and Peter Kay at the Brit Awards on Facebook groups / pages. Kay's reply, etc. I love Oasis, but LG is an absolute prick. 15:54, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm quite amused by the related post to "the guy who wrote this one wikipedia is a legend". Congrats, you vandalised Wikipedia, that well-known difficult task that's on par with breaking into a Las Vegas casino vault, you truly are a legend. 19:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I became a fan of the 'don't believe' group and invited friends to join. Some did & some asked 'why bother'. That gave me a chance to give the 'We must fight them on the beaches.....etc' argument. I also slid in the 'we don't believe - we accept that there is lots of hard science to support...' argument also. I'm 51, with friends of comparable age, and with young adult children and friends of their ages, so I reckon it is an opportunity to present a good case for evolution in my small sphere of influence.RagTop Gone sailing 10:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

McCain screwed up my life- Joe the Plumber
Still republican though--Thanatos (talk) 17:52, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And apparently fairly sensible in his opinion of Obama. Though I'm not surprised he's came out and said this, it was quite cynical exploitation from the beginning. 18:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That photo caption is full of awesome win! 01:11, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I like this quote: "The birthers, the truthers — if people are trying to bunch them [with tea partiers], that would kill us." That's my idea for killing off the tea party movement. It's already rife with birthers, but truthers are of the same ilk, yet less tolerated. I'd really like to find a way to get truthers more involved and visible with the teatards. DickTurpis (talk) 14:13, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If we go by the Grauniand's photo caption, Joe doesn't half look like Barack Obama... (And the prez looks awfully bald and white) 15:13, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

New L O S T
Actually has me interested in the denouement of the series. The Numbers make a return :O ! Wodewick Welease Wodewick! 20:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I sort of lost (hurr hurr) interest after it started introducing the time travel stuff. It's interesting stuff (and Sayid' flashforward plot was cool enough to warrant its own spin-off), but I didn't really find it worth watching, it's 20+ episodes a series at close to an hour each and I didn't find myself getting anything from it that I could get from a plot summary on Wikipedia. Glad to hear that the numbers are doing something again, though, they sort of disappeared faster than Jack Bauer's heroine addiction. 21:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For me, lost jumped the shark at the end of series 3 when they killed off the last interesting character. Whoever decided to write out Libby before her possibly interesting story line even got going needs themselves to be shot. For some reason I keep downloading, but really I'm not hugely interested. I can see this is headed for one of those Peter F. Hamilton "oh fuck, I've only got five pages left and I haven't explained anything or brought events to a satisfactory conclusion" moments. The best thing that can possibly happen now is that it is revealed that the whole thing is a a holodeck simulation the crew of the Enterprise is running. -- 00:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Libby decided to write herself out with a DUI. I've been rewatching the early seasons (I came in around mid season 3) and so far... she's not so interesting... but I hear she has a crazy past with Hurley or something. Wodewick Welease Wodewick! 06:36, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * To be fair, Lost jumped the shark when the plane crashed. The shark was in the water as the plane skipped over it and most of the cast were giving the shark the finger by the end of the four episode. 13:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I had gotten through most of the first season when I realized the whole series was about introducing new and weird puzzles each episode but never really resolving them. It's like a Sherlock Holmes story that ends with Holmes not being able to solve the mystery. I say, Watson old chap, that is weird. Where's my coke?
 * I'm just waiting for it all to turn out to be a fundie circlejerk like those M. Night. Shamalamadingdong movies and that I was unwittingly being preached at for 5 years. 16:52, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Google street view
What sort of vehicle are they using to get this sort of piccy? 01:24, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * A Segway™ and a helmetcam. That's my wager. Google's cool like that. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 01:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * EC dammit I said :Segway? How about following it until there's a chance of seeing reflection in a window or something? 01:36, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Can anyone see anything in the window here? 01:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * From Wikipedia: Google Street View displays scans taken from a fleet of Chevrolet Cobalts in North America, Opel Astras in Europe, Holden Astras in Australia and New Zealand, Toyota Prius cars in Japan, Fiat Stilos in Brazil, Toyota Yarises in South Africa and Pontiac G5s in Mexico. 01:39, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * EC) Yeah, I saw the car doing a U-turn outside our house last year (not on SV yet), but the pic above is in a pedestrian only area - I know it quite well.  01:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You oughtta go look at the view... 01:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Tricycles believe it or not. 01:44, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice! Well found, Pi. 01:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * heh! Yup! The cycle helmet! 02:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Some stuff about Google Trikes if you are still interested. 03:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice! Well found, Pi. 07:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is me in my old car from a year ago. Bondurant (talk) 09:31, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fleeting fame! 09:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that an A3? I was thinking about one of those were it not for the fact that my A4 has been stabbing me in the kidneys, neck, and chest for a year. Are those A3's any good? 16:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's an A3. I really liked it. It didn't have sport suspension, so the ride wasn't too harsh, like some Audis can be. I wish I'd gone for the 5-door version and diesel instead of petrol, though. I traded up to an A4 a few months ago after having the A3 for 4 years. Bondurant (talk) 17:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

They got a shot of my dad's girlfriend mooning the camera car. She's rather embarrassed about that. --Kels (talk) 18:07, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Super Mandelbrot zoom
The Mandelbrot set as you've (probably) never seen it before. We've all Mandelbrotted but this is awesome! found via Scienceblogs 10:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand it, but it freaked the shit out of me. 13:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Smoke some good weed, put some early Pink Floyd on the music system (I suggest "Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun") and watch again. Then you'll understand it in a really deep way, man. Jack Hughes (talk) 13:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Glenn Beck is brought to you without our proud sponsors.
6 days without ads in the UK. That's all I will say--Thanatos (talk) 21:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Unsolved Mysteries question
Ok, this is part two of a case. I'm linking to it, because what's in it specifically applies to a question I have. Some people think a certain image charred into the side of the school room is proof that an angel saved them all. It doesn't look like anything to me, so I'm guessing that they're just projecting it. I'm more curious about why the blast damaged only part of the wall, and left the surrounding wall relatively untouched (and why it some parts of it seem geometical): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlC0DSqDOyI&NR=1 --Mustex (talk) 23:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Am I a truther?
I was watching a video of Glenn Beck attack Van Jones for being a 9/11 truther. I am aware that truthers are somewhere near birthers in levels of public respect and this question hit me. Am I a truther? I honestly believe that the Bush administration knew about the attack in advance and allowed it to happen to justify a war in the Middle-East, which would allow them to go to Iraq. And I believe capturing Osama Bin Laden was something of a low priority so that he could keep sending "death to America" videos to keep fear and support for the war high. Am I an idiot for thinking this?--Thanatos (talk) 15:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * you are not alone 199.242.176.67 (talk) 15:31, 18 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, but only minor league, not like the ones who propose theories like the Bush administration blew up the towers or a missile hit the Pentagon. You're at least just drawing political conclusions based on stuff that can't be readily verified, not ignoring obvious reality (it would have taken a massive effort beforehand to blow up the towers) or hard evidence (the number of people who say "I watched a plane fly into the Pentagon".) MDB (talk) 15:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)


 * My own point of view is similar to yours, Thanatos, but not quite as active. I suspect they knew that some attack was going to happen, but they didn't know specifically what it was.  I doubt they knew there'd be so much destruction.  But once it happened, the powers surrounding Bush just shrugged their shoulders, said "that'll do nicely" and kicked the propaganda machine into gear.  Agreed that actually capturing Osama was a low priority, propaganda needs a boogeyman and he was handy. --Kels (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2010 (UTC)


 * There's really no doubt Bush knew Al Queda was planning on attacking the US, but there's a big difference between knowing something potentially big was going to happen sometime somewhere and active complacency. No one was about to stop 9/11; it was too simple and easy, really. All it took was some boxcutters and the will to do it. But this all is a far cry from the "truther" movement, which says the Bush administration actually blew up the towers with explosives, used remote control jets and cruise missiles, and staged a crash in Pennsylvania. It's ridiculous beyond belief and just begs to have one of the picture/caption memes with the words "Occam's Razor: You're Doing It Wrong". An accurate motto for the truthers, in my mind, but one which would be a PR nightmare is "Bin Laden is innocent". That seems to be what they believe. DickTurpis (talk) 16:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that (as usual) South Park had it spot-on. The government are quite happy to allow these crackpot conspiracy theories to circulate as it makes them (the govt) seem extremely smart and powerful.  16:08, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In the choice between cock-up or conspiracy the reality is almost always cock-up. There is no chance the Bush government was capable of sufficient subtlety of thought to think through the idea that they should allow an attack to take place so that they could take advantage of the reaction to it. It's highly probable that some government agencies had parts of the story but were unable to to fit them all together before the attack.  Result - cock-up.  Incompetence not conspiracy.--BobIt's cold! 16:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Loose Change pointed out the insurance policy on the twin towers and the number of put options on the airline before the attack. Starts to sound like burning-down-the-house-for-insurance-money to me.--Thanatos (talk) 16:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you believe a single word of Loose Change without reliable independent verification you're probably on the wrong site here. DickTurpis (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Gaps, rolls on floor, and says read our Loose Change article. --BobIt's cold! 18:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I only watched it because a teacher back in high school showed it (to teach laternative thinking or something) and gave out burned copies. It's not like I wasted money on it and all it did was give me a few venues to explore--Thanatos (talk) 18:47, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd like to plug our Loose Change article too, as it's one of the few things in the mainspace I started and wrote a substantial section of. Certainly there's nothing wrong with simply watching Loose Change. I did. I was just quite shocked about how many of the people I saw it with bought the arguments, or at least many of them. I must say, however, I'm surprised it was shown in your school, and I certainly hope the point was driven home that the thinking here (to the extent there was any) was very alternative. I'd hate to think this stuff was being endorsed in our nation's schools. DickTurpis (talk) 20:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It was here in Canada, so don't fret--Thanatos (talk) 21:11, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There is this. I am not going into the put options because I really don't really understand them. Sorry, that was my younger, dumber self breaking through. I gave him a swat--Thanatos (talk) 18:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

DickTurpis above refers to how simple and easy 9/11 was, and I think that's an important point. Part of the reason that the attacks were so devastatig to the American psyche is that, for really the first time since Pearl Harbor, we were reminded that America is not invulnerable. But 9/11 created a deeper wound than Pearl Harbor, because Pearl Harbor was an attack by a nation with a huge military; 9/11 was carried out by 20 actual terrorists, plus however many more were "in on it". And even then, it wasn't the scheme of a Goldfinger/Lex Luthor/Doctor Doom style supervillain using an atomic death ray -- it was something that pretty much anyone who was willing to die for his beliefs could do. My point is I think that's why the more extreme "truthers" readily accept some wild conclusions: for them, its easier to accept that 9/11 was a massive conspiracy, rather than the results of fifty Muslims with probably under a million in cash and some box cutters. MDB (talk) 17:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. Some Americans would much rather believe a conspiracy than their government was incompetent.--BobIt's cold! 18:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Some Brits, too - witness the 7/7 conspiracy theories. There are some weird Russian ones too, about politicians being replaced by doubles, etc. Totnesmartin (talk) 20:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt that some politicians or military take advantage of external threats, events and disinformation. However, things like 9/11 would require such a massive cover-up that it would be almost impossible to keep the lid on and there have been no "insiders" giving leaked information to the press. 09:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, but don't forget they've managed to keep the faked moon-landings covered up for 40 years... 09:35, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Cassiusalien leaving youtube...WITH SUBTITLES!
Don't know how many of you have been following this, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ep1uyxXNg4 --Mustex (talk) 02:29, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Sourcewatch?
Can we use a page on Sourcewatch? I find them to be somewhat checkered -- on the one hand, it's a site run by some of the best writers on corporate PR out there. On the other hand, they're a little bit too friendly to groups like PeTA and the HSUS, which are definitely the sort of extremists we like to mock here, even if calling them "ecoterrorists" is definitely a wee bit excessive. EVDebs (talk) 18:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They appear to still be using the GFDL, so I think we might have some compatibility issues with our Creative Commons. 21:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think he meant "can we copy their stuff" so much as "should we write Sourcewatch". 22:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll add to do list. 03:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I sort of feel bad even suggesting it, because for the most part they're a very good site. But they do seem to be a little distrustful of science, so that kind of puts them in a gray area. EVDebs (talk) 06:19, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They're great guys, but they don't understand science or technology. They're not stupid, and are amenable to reason IME - David Gerard (talk) 22:33, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Worth getting?
This could not be any more one mission, but it looks like it rehashes done to death stories. I was wondering if someone knows how to get a single issue for me. 03:14, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I've never read WorldNutDaily, but reading that advert for their own magazine I can see exactly why the Assfly loves it.
 * Evolution is a lie
 * Abortion causes breast cancer
 * The earth isn't heating up
 * Well OK, it might be, but that's not due to humans pumping trillions of tonnes of shit in to the atmosphere.
 * Guns are good
 * Liberals support paedophilia
 * It ticks every CP box! 09:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * But a bit of quote mining gives us: "Politically and financially motivated pseudo-science is widespread and utterly out of control". Which we could agree with.  It's about the only line though.--BobIt's cold! 10:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately they are referring to evolution and global warming. This is the problem, they have learned the words and so now are repeating them in a "I know you are, you said you are, but what am I" style argument. 10:52, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You can get single issues Whistleblower or the weekly WND from their online store. It looks like a download rather than hardcopy. Hamster (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Jesus was gay
Don't know what you guys make of this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8523538.stm --94.197.59.121 (talk) 11:53, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There really isn't enough info on that page describing why Sir Elton thinks Jesus was gay, and I'm afraid I can't take what most celebs say at face value. Maybe he'll elaborate in a later in the full interview.   11:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Words cannot express how little I care about either of:
 * If Jesus was gay
 * What Elton John thinks about it
 * 12:28, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd timing. I hadn't read this, but today I wrote SPAG. Seems to be a classic case. I wonder if later comments will reveal Jesus to be a piano player who miraculously regrew his hair? -- 20:42, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Given the Pope is about to visit the UK and has been spreading homophobia in advance, I would be unsurprised if Sir Elton did it just to be obnoxious. In which case he would have my full support - David Gerard (talk) 22:29, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hopefully yes. Although if he wants to do that, he should just call the Pope a closet gay and ride the subsequent wave of controversy. 16:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

He should have quit with Benny and the Jets and the like (Well, okay, I'm partial to I Guess That's Why They Call It the Blues). Yeah, I'm an animation fan who didn't really give a crap about his Lion King stuff, what's it to ya? --Kels (talk) 21:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: Phyllis Schlafly Drooling on My Shoulder & Other CPAC Memories
This article may be of interest to some of you: And talking to her was a woman I reviled: the ever-smiling, controlling, bun-topped, honey voiced, ultra-right wing Phyllis Schlafly. 204.248.28.194 (talk) 15:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Just came over to post the same article. Pretty funny image. Junggai (talk) 22:56, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Lay off the cartoons
60% of Texans do not disagree that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time. Funny, that chart goes to 101%. Apparently failing math as well as history and science.--Thanatos (talk) 05:32, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Rounding errors more likely. 09:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


 * From University of Texas / Texas Tribune Texas Statewide Survey/ The full (relevant) details, & they admit rounding errors (Fair use for comment etc.)
 * Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings?
 * 38%   Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided the process.
 * 12%   Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, and God had no part in the process.
 * 38%   God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago.
 * 12%   Don't know
 * Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of life on earth? Life on earth has. ..
 * 22%   Existed in its present form since the beginning of time
 * 15%   Evolved over time, entirely through "natural selection," with no guidance from God
 * 53%   Evolved over time, entirely through “natural selection,” but with a guiding hand from God
 * 10%   Don't know
 * Please tell us whether you agree or disagree with the following statement: "Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals."
 * 35%   Agree
 * 51%   Disagree
 * 15%   Don't Know
 * Please tell us whether you agree or disagree with the following statement: "The earliest humanslived at the same time as the dinosaurs."
 * 30%   Agree
 * 41%   Disagree
 * 30%   Don’t Know


 * 07:04, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


 * If I recall my statistics course correctly, you always round up, even if it gives you a number greater than 100%. I think.  -- 20:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Breaking News - Noahs ark found on hillside in Turkey ! well from 1987 - close enough
Noahs Ark has been located - Turkish Government puts up National park and visitors center. Iron, aluminum and titanium parts found. Timbers were laminated using glue and joints were metal reinforced. Ron Wyatt succeeds. Hamster (talk) 20:14, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The park's been around for a while now, and my initial thought was that this doesn't make Turkey look very good in its application to join the EU. On the other hand, here in Ireland we had people worshiping a tree stump in the shape of Mary, and France have the cripple scamming Lourdes site. Turkey will be in good company. -- 21:00, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The Complete Idiot's Guide to idiots
I saw a book entitled The Complete Idiot's Guide to Connecting With Your Angels in the shop today, and could only begin a slow clap in awe at the wonders of such a title. This is not your common or garden irony folks - this is comedy wrapped within a joke within a joke within sublime comedy....   Droll wryness just doesn't come any better than this. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP <font color="#993300">Marmite Patrol 04:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * To people who purchase this book, I offer my condolances and/or congratulations. Some people buy in to this, so if it helps them make it through the day, no harm/no foul.  To those who don't, probably an inteesting read anyways.   04:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, they know their audience. The books tend to be an odd mishmash of Christian theology with a little bit of Charmed and Buffy the Vampire Slayer chucked in for good measure. Sylvia Browne does an alarmingly blasphemous version of this, but I'm yet to hear any serious criticism of her from the usual gang of fundie idiots. That aside, I have a strong urge to suffocate the kind of person who'd buy this book and take it seriously. It'd free up a slot on Earth for someone less irritating. -- 19:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Eff off, I said
Yesterday (Saturday) we were walking down Fargate in Sheffield when we were approached by a charming looking gentleman in a very nice suit and having a name badge on the lapel:
 * "Good afternoon, ladies, would you be interested in the Truth?" Quoth he while holding out a leaflet. Yes, he did manage to capitalise "Truth". I suspect that he had spotted a pair of his optimum target market : women of uncertain (= advanced) age.
 * Without breaking stride SWMBO commented "Fuck off!".
 * Result: gobsmacked proselytiser. Lovely! 08:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

My Glenn Beckesq Rant
Ok, I don't mean to alarm you, but the United States is in peril. The atrocities that we defeated in World War II are coming back, but not from the left. No, it is from the right. There are parallels. Economic crisis, unpopular leadership, growing radicalism and one man screaming hatred to the public. In short, I believe Glenn Beck, if elected into office, would be the equivalent of Hitler.

Now, some of you think that "Poppycock, like anyone would ever vote for that idiot", there is this. At CPAC, despite not being on the ballot, was declared the one that the conservatives wanted to be their leader, beating out Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney.

The party is becoming more and more radicalized, with the GOP deciding to cut funding to candidates deemed too liberal (whoops, that's progressive now) and saying that the reason McCain lost was because he was too moderate. They couple this with misleading the public about Obama, ACORN and progressives in general and namecalling. They cannot put up decent arguments, so they resort to something out of elementary school to do politics.

At the head of it all is Glenn Beck, the Messiah of the (probably racist) teabaggers. Glenn Beck, who says that progressivism is a cancer that must be cut from the GOP. Progressives are Beck's Jew. Remember, Hitler gained attention and power speaking in bars. Glenn has television and radio. Be afraid, people, be very afraid.--Thanatos (talk) 21:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Glenn Beck / Ben Stein /Sarah Palin platform for 2012 *yay 'merica* Hamster (talk) 21:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Get to Canada or Mexico before they close the borders! -- 21:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * GB will probably try to eliminate all progressives in North America--Thanatos (talk) 21:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * All you yanks who are sick of Republicans will always be welcome in the UK. We can enjoy banter about how you "saved our asses" in WWII. 22:00, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Something I noticed about Fox News
Fox only allows commenting on stories that reflect badly on Obama or the government. The last three stories about major success in Afghanistan are, of course, not allowed to be commented on. Sneaky bastards. Acei9 23:10, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Very sneaky. Although it seems to be quite standard practice everywhere to restrict what you can comment on, the real issue is whether comments are selected and censored. 07:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Nutters (Chapter 10073)
For those who don't read PZ regularly, here's a little gem he's linked to. 05:38, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops! didn't see it had been clogosphered. Sorry, Gulik. 07:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Spirituality
According to Fox(sorry!) "spirituality" could be increased by brain damage. "The finding could lead to new strategies for treating some forms of mental illness". Ah! now I see. 06:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * that explains the strange postings on talk.origins Hamster (talk) 06:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I did wonder about "was he dropped on his head as a child?" With no particular reference to PJR. 06:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Jealous!
How can someone pass this daily while I'm looking at effing WORKSOP! 07:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate this person. 07:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is part of my cycle ride home. Now, why was it I moved out of London? Jack Hughes (talk) 11:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Living in Cambridge right now,so I get lots of nice scenery. EddyP (talk) 13:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Plenty of Elizabethan architecture here in Totnes. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:55, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Too much stupid
Has anyone seen this before? 07:15, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Israeli education
PZ has a nice bit about how science is being elbowed in favour of religion in Israeli state schools. 13:15, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * "We have returned to the dark Middle Ages," Erez (Jonathan Erez, a professor at Hebrew University's Earth Sciences Institute) said. "It's difficult to believe that a man who harbors such opinions has climbed the ladder to become the Education Ministry's chief scientist."'' 13:25, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This really is why we need to get rid of faith schools. If people want their kids religiously indoctrinated it should not be done in state schools; it's what Sunday Schools are meant for and I'm sure Jews and Muslims have their own equivalents. School should be about opening and exercising minds, not closing and paralysing them. 14:13, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "There won't be a need for us to bomb Tehran, because Tehran has already come to us" - Yehoshua Kolodny, a professor emeritus at Hebrew University. 14:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Boner's been raptured?
While my gut feeling is that something bad has happened, I can't help but wonder if Kirk Cameron had Boner raptured. 15:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And I never knew Boner was Chekov's kid.  16:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hunh, so he is. If this didn't seem to point to something tragic, I'd make a "red shirt" joke. MDB (talk) 16:29, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I read about this last night. I have to say, I am anxious to hear the conclusion to the Case of the Disappearing Boner. Hopefully he's just out on an extended bender. DickTurpis (talk) 18:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The security guys had to have worked out that they were the first to go, you would think they would change shirts as a disguise. Its a bit long for a bender , but lets hope he shacked up somewhere Hamster (talk) 21:00, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's serious stuff, actually. Apparently the guy was last seen near Stanley Park, which my roommate knows well (she's from Vancouver).  She says that there are lots of places there a depressed individual could go and not get found for quite a while. --Kels (talk) 21:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Red-Letter Sermon
Hey, I found this sermon by a Red-Letter Christian on youtube. I was wondering if I could get some of your reactions to it (I'm honestly curious): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CfLbYZ9M-Q  --Mustex (talk) 05:44, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Vot iz dis paper money?
Another nutter heard from: "South Carolina Rep. Mike Pitts has introduced legislation that would mandate that gold and silver coins replace federal currency as legal tender in his state.  08:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * He is, of course, aware that 1 USD will buy approx. 1.5 µl of gold, or 180µl of silver . Just a bit small to be practicable, unless its very impure or embedded in plastic. CS Miller (talk) 18:42, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they could store the gold somewhere and provide paper receipts for it, each one representing a certain amount of gold. :3 Sen (talk) 03:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Or to make it easier to visualize, if a 1US cent coin was made of pure gold, it would cost $300 US dollars; silver would be $2.50 US.
 * Actually, it is a perfectly sound policy to combat the hyperinflation we're experiencing. Oh wait, inflation is at about 2.6%. Nevermind. DickTurpis (talk) 21:31, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Another way of visualizing this is 1.5 µl is the volume of a sphere of 1.4mm diameter; which is about 1/20 of an inch or the size of a smallish peppercorn. CS Miller (talk) 22:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Does he not remember the gold standard and Bretton Woods debacles? CS Miller (talk) 22:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Gold standard nut, or has he spent too much time role playing at renaissance fairs? South Carolina's budget deficits could be fixed by Pitts forming a party to go farm kobolds for a few days. -- 11:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

School spying
Big brother in action? 15:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * They introduce a monitoring system to tackle a clearly defined problem, yet it's used as a more general surveillance system? How totally and utterly unprecedented. -- 15:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It seriously takes the piss when local government abuses laws for spying on the most mundane of things. They've gotta have better things to do than hang around waiting on fishermen. Whenever I walk into my local supermarket I'm greeted by a sign that says "We Are Watching You." It's just to catch shoplifters, but it always reminds me of Big Brother. 15:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That school case strikes me as the creepiest example I've heard of yet. How anyone could have thought that monitoring students' behaviour at home & telling them off for it wasn't a terrible idea is beyond me.  Apparently they're now under investigation b y the FBI.   19:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It does seem completely stupid and immoral, yet it keeps happening. Rather then the usual cycle of suing and nothing happening, I'd love to see the person responsible for this being dealt with pretty severely. Granted it could just be some teacher who happened to flick on a camera to take a look, but ignorance is no defence in such cases. One would have to be incredibly ignorant to see no problem in spying on students and their families. -- 20:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * We must remember that the most bizarre of perspectives is held by some people - we know this after observing CP for all these years, and continually asking ourselves "are they serious?" 21:57, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For information: Robbins v. Lower Merion School District (pdf). 06:21, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The Telescreens are coming! Sen (talk) 03:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

blue food challenge
Does anyone dare to take my blue food challenge? Chasanidya (talk) 00:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I just opened my fridge to find that the whipped cream had gone bad, and there was blue mold all over it. Does that count? 02:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I doubt very much that you would eat that, so it doesn't at all count. Sorry.


 * I crush blueberries and mix them with cream. Blue.  Send the check to the Death Star III.  -- 02:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but those blueberries, despite the name, are in fact purple. No winner here, I'm afraid.


 * I'm a huge fan of Blue Rasberry Squeeze Pops and Mountain Dew had that blue version a while back.... But it's very hard to compete in a challenge when you don't know the rules. 04:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Those don't count, they are only blue because of the artificial colours added by the manufacturer. But nice try.


 * send cash, I have a small bowl of BLUE smarties, and a bowl of BLUE Froot Loops, and I can make a blue blueberry muffin if I have too. I may have blue jello but not sure of that. If I drink lots of BLUE grape juice other stuff turns blue too. (maybe TMI ?) Hamster (talk) 04:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto for those, too. Blueberries and blue grapes are in fact, purple. And once again, fruit-loops and smarties, in their natural, unmodified state, are not blue.
 * Wrong, they are blue, at least in my two parts of the world (one for grapes, one for berries). Editor at CPmały książe 15:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There are a few blue berries. Edible blue flowers, and at least one variety of blue corn. I do accept postal orders...  09:33, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are all in reality, purple. As is so-called "blue" corn.
 * How could you all forget blue cheese? The best cheese known to mankind. Chasanidya, shall I give you my Paypal account? — Pietrow   ☏  09:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Blue cheese? Good grief sir, how can you consider that to be food? If you like to eat that, do you also like to eat the Tetronian's moldy cream cheese?


 * While a big fan of blueberries, I'd choose dark blue wine grapes. Editor at CPmały książe 09:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Dark blue? More like dark purple to me.
 * Poor thing, have you never been hungry or thirsty under a September sun, realized that there are blue winegrapes (for wine, not table) on the roadside, checked that there is nobody in sight, and fully enjoyed that peculiar taste? Editor at CPmały książe 15:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There are also blue potatoes (e.g. Russian Blue), blue lobsters and there's nothing to prevent you eating a bluebird, although there's probably not much meat. 13:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing in the world more purple than a blue potato, friends. And while the shell of the procambarus alleni may be blue, you certainly don't eat the SHELL, now do you? And only cats eat bluebirds, I'm afraid. So, if you like to eat blue-birds then I predict there is a 95% chance that you are a cat.

Chasanidya (talk) 17:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Blue corn (often made into tortilla chips). Blueberries, their jelly and jam, as above. Blue molds in cheese. I think there are blue varieties of kale. Blue M&Ms ;) 17:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * After reading through all the "responses" by the challenger, I see that their goalposts are obviously color-blind. 17:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Chasanidya, next time you set a challenge with an alleged money prize, why not set the rules before inviting responses, rather than just making them up as you go along?  18:02, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, and sign your posts.  18:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly what I said a while ago Weasel. You can't really compete in something when the rules are not formally explained and the referee keeps changing their criteria.  Lay out a specific set of non-changing rules and we can give it a good shot, however, I have the feeling that this is not going to be something you'll allow yourself to lose.  18:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Um...the 'alleged money prize' wasn't the point - I'm sorry, I thought the satirical/parody intent would be more obvious. Chasanidya (talk) 18:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I "got" the parody, but what's the point, really? 20:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Borage is blue and food. Obviously you'll now come up with some funny excuse why this is not true. --⁠ (talk) 19:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hagra biscuit! (fast-forward to 2:13) Totnesmartin (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hows abouts a nice bottle of Blue Nun? Get yer feckin' money out or stop wasting our time (although most people come here to waste time)  10:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Some mushrooms are blue, like this one, and psilocybin turns blue on contact with air so anyone who's had magic mushrooms has eaten blue food. 13:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose the irises of blue-eyed things are edible. 15:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

British libel law reform
British libel laws are being used by homeopaths and other woo-meisters to stifle scientists' freedom of speech. I urge other Brits to sign the online petition for reform at www.libelreform.org and email their MP. 11:42, 22 February 2010 (UTC) P.S. Try and get as many friends and family to sign up as well. I believe that this is really important stuff.
 * Signed. I really hope something comes from this, it's not just CAMers that take the piss with this, you often hear about an Arab suing a Russian for something he published in an American publication, in the fucking London courts because our fucking libel laws are so stupid!.  Arrrgghhhh!  Go petition and go Private Eye!  11:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, apparently it counts as published in the UK if it's available on Amazon. Fucking mad. 13:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I only mentioned the CAM issue as that was probably the most relevant to RW; but yes it is all mad when people from completely different countries can use our laws to wage their own private vendettas. 14:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * A lot of the time it's the costs, actual or potential, that deter people from defending. A decent libel trial can gointo the 100s of thousands. 14:11, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This article is relevant to your interests -- <font color="#000000"> = w =   14:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It is definitely worth signing, and those abroad could do worse than to complain to your representatives. The law is bloody stupid, and far reaching. Considering the stance we take, I wonder if it's worth mentioning something on the intercom? British libel law affects anyone writing here, and I doubt you want to be at the mercy of a turncoat fruit loop like Justice Eady. -- 14:29, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct, this is a truly international problem. Toasty, stuff doesn't even have to be on Amazon; there was a case recently where some Johnny Foreigner sued (in Eady's London court) another Johnny Foreigner over something published in an obscure Johnny Foreigner magazine and Eady allowed it on the basis that the magazines website had had three hits from the UK that year.  Fucking mental.  I'm all for tourists visiting our fine land, but libel tourists can fuck right off.  17:02, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * See also 10:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

MPs & Homeopathy
"The NHS should stop funding homeopathy, MPs say. The House of Commons Science and Technology Committee said using public money on the highly-diluted remedies could not be justified. About fucking time! 13:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hell yeah. Ian Stewart, MP, is a total and utter plum. His claim that it appears to work for some people is inane. I'm presuming that when they covered pharmacology and physics at school he was busy taking courses in advance incredulity. By his logic we could stock hospitals up with totems and fervently praying believers.-- 14:37, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Please Click Here to view my Allowences and Expenses" - His webshite - That all, folks! - Twat 15:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Whilst it is certainly good news that MPs are planning to stop this embarrassing waste of NHS cash; that BBC article reads like it's been written by a primary school kid... (No offence to primary school kids) 17:21, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Written by a Radio one newswriter? 17:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Orac" on Respectful insolence (scienceblogs) 11:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added to the article. 11:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Very good write-up. Thanks for the link. The comments make for good reading, particularly when the "I know it works" crowd springs in to action. I'm personally disgusted with Prince Charles and his frequent promotion of woo. He makes a pretty penny from his peddling of quackery, yet we could end up with this snake oil selling huckster as the head of state. Democracy isn't perfect, but there's a lot to be said for some kind of qualification process. -- 11:44, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Chas is a twat! Thank gOD the monarchy's got no power! 11:58, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * He's not even consistent in his twattishness. 12:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Old joke leads to a legal question
There's an old joke. A man goes to the big city for the first time. A hooker approaches him, and says "I'll do anything you want for $500."

"Anything?" replies the man.

"Anything!"

"Fine. Paint my house."

Now, having been watching The Paper Chase on DVD lately, I've become curious about contract law, so my question is this: is there an enforceable contract there? MDB (talk) 16:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're not kidding I'll dig out my Farnsworth or Williston on contracts. 16:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not kidding, but don't go to a lot of effort. It's a mere curiosity on my part. (I have to say, though, as a legal layman, I would have thought contract law would be dry as dust. Paper Chase made it sound interesting.) MDB (talk) 16:37, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's only interesting when people don't agree what the bargain was. I'll have a look for something basic for you. 16:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What I want to know is if you're supposed to tip hookers. Vulpius (talk) 17:11, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Insert old leper joke here.


 * Seriously, as I understand it, (and I am telling the truth that this is only what I've heard), if you visit a "massage parlor" or some such, the "tip" you leave is payment for services beyond the massage. MDB (talk) 17:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * In my very limited one-off experience from over thirty years ago you tip "the maid". Jack Hughes (talk) 17:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think offering to do "anything" is a contract, it was a request for a contract. His offer was to be the contract, subject to her acceptance. If offering to do "anything" was the contract, she could have simply done "anything" and satisfied the terms. &mdash; Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 17:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yonks ago, when I was studyin' I recall that (e.g.) a price on an item in a shop was an "offer to treat" not a contract. Premusably the same would apply. 17:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Several years ago I indulged in the services offered of a prostitue in Berlin. After the completion of business, as I was leaving she shouted "Hey! Vhat about zee Marks?"


 * "Not bad" I replied. "7 out of 10".      B-Boom-Boom!  17:29, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * IAMAL, but as I understand it, here in NH an oral contract can be legally binding. However, to be a contract it requires an offer, a counteroffer ("paint my house") and acceptance.  Also, they're pretty much worth the paper they are written on if there aren't (credible?) witnesses.   17:40, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh heh, 'oral'  17:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

To seriously answer your question, there is no enforceable contract here as I see it, for several reasons. First, I'm pretty sure contracts have to be more specific than that to be binding, second, either at or above $500 the Statute of Frauds specifies contracts must be written. Also, I guess one would have to consider whether there was actually any consideration on the part of the client here. But then again, I'm only going on 2 law classes I took years ago. DickTurpis (talk) 18:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think an offer to "do anything" could ever be truly binding since it's so open ended. E.g. what if, instead of "paint my house", he had answered "travel back in time" or "bring the dead back to life"?   18:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * This is all fascinating stuff -- thanks, all. My layman's guess would have been "anything you want" clearly implied "of a sexual nature" and (ignoring the fact prostitution is illegal in most places, making it a non-enforceable contract), and that a reasonable person would not have taken that as an offer to do literally anything. Or perhaps it would be considered a "frivolous claim", like the old Joe Isuzu ads or the Harrier Jet for Pepsi Points thing. MDB (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

It would be an unconscionable contract, with terms that favor one party in massive disproportion to the other in an unfair manner. Courts tend not to be too forgiving of people who just didn't think about it enough, but in the U.S. they are pretty rough on "trick" contracts of such a nature.-- 04:21, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * So, then "I was stupid when I made that offer" would be a legitimate defense in this case? MDB (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The idea would be that "the strict language of the oral agreement can be taken to unreasonable and unconscionable lengths."-- 23:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I seriously doubt this would work. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that you couldn't hold someone to "anything," or else you could request that they do things that are totally impractical for $500. Like, "lead an expedition to the North Pole!" Or even things that are illegal like "assassinate Obama!" Now, if you wanted to claim that you had a painting fetish, and made them paint while you took them up the ass... (I doubt my gf will let me find out if that one's viable) --Mustex (talk) 01:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The Disenchantment of Secular Discourse
The brilliant Stanley Fish has a review up of this new book. I don't agree with him or the author, but his analysis of reason's ability to give us direction in life is well-worth reading for any serious thinker on the subject.-- 11:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Local bar signs
There is a bar near Pittsburgh called Casa d'Ice. It is run by a complete political whack-job. Every week or so he puts up a new marquis on display outside the bar, complete with foul language, along a major thoroughfare. You be the judge. I should also note he was running a campaign for a 2008 Presidential bid. 12:02, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What nice man: any relation to RobS or TK? 12:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "Iraqis will all kill themselves, it's their way of life." Charming man. 12:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd that a guy who has such a hard-on for English operates a bar named Casa d'Ice. Has anyone ever pointed that out to him, and, if so, what were their hospitals bills afterward? MDB (talk) 12:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "For 23 years, I was in the Ice Business and when I sold the business using my legal Italian Heritage, came the name "Casa D' Ice" for "House of Ice". I can not help it that the Spanish use is the same name for house. So, for those who question my use of "Casa" when I am against illegal aliens, I hope this explains it." As quoted from the main page of the bar's website.   12:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In other words, "Good Italians can be proud of their heritage, but not damn Mexicans." MDB (talk) 13:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't house of ice be casa di ghiaccio in Italian? 18:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It would, but I don't think (I hope!) the guy would be able to speak Italian. Editor at CPmały książe 18:11, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Under "entertainment": "None scheduled for December". Hmmmmmm, slow winter, eh? 19:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, the FAQ and Hours disagree on when they are open, and the Hours page makes it seem like the kitchen is always closed. Anyway, those signs are a riot, but my favorite was the "help wanted" one for a sign updater when the owner is dead.    20:05, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * How has he not been ticketed for the language? most cities have codes against obscene language on signs.... Where are Brent Bozell and the language police at PTC?  20:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I did find this one quite funny, actually. -- 00:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I've heard that before. I thought quite a few were "funny", even if I often found the perspective distasteful.  00:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I always find it annoying when right-wingers are funny, and it can indeed happen.  I laughed a lot at Palin's "How's that whole hopey-changey thing working out for ya?" -frankly, that's excellent comedy writing indeed, though I doubt she wrote it.  Grrr...you're not allowed be funny, bitch.    <font color="#00F0A20">DogP <font color="#993300">Marmite Patrol 02:33, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, they lost the guy who books the bands to another local pub, and the owner is such a douche that he probably scares away the entertainment. My band played there a few times, and the dude was hard pressed to pay up.  He'd just sit behind the bar with this smug look on his face.  I do find some of the signs entertaining, but mostly offensive (think of the children!) and he has been asked by local authorities to change the language a bit on occasion.   03:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As far as right winger being funny goes -- pains me to admit it though it does, I'll admit Rush Limbaugh has great comic skills. Now, I don't find him "funny", per se, but that's because I don't like the targets of his jokes. And that's why I so desperately miss Molly Ivins -- she could skewer Republicans six ways from Sunday, and be so funny in the process, the conservatives would be laughing, too. Rachel Maddow comes close, but she goes more for subtle humor. MDB (talk) 12:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Nevada Governor
The governor of Nevada has confirmed he's not gotten any since 1995.

All I can say is "I'm glad Nevada doesn't have nukes." MDB (talk) 17:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Never trust virgins or guys with blue balls in politics--Thanatos (talk) 00:48, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Does this make me a bad person?
Ok, I'm not sure if I should feel wrong for wanting this, but it just occurred to me that, since we now have facial recognition technology for "celebrity look-alikes," it would be really amusing if someone came up with a program that could take any picture of a girl, and compare it to pics from escort ads all over the internet. I mean, it would kind of make me laugh if I could find out that some girl who was mean to me in High School was not working as an escort, but I also feel bad wishing that on anyone else. Would anyone else find that funny?--Mustex (talk) 03:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You sir, have some very odd ideas. 03:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes that makes you a bad person. -- 03:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * *rereads yet again* Why would you find it funny that some girl who was mean to you was not working as an escort? I could understand how you would find it funny if she was. 03:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Mustex, girls were mean to you in high school because you deserved it. loser. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:05, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe she liked you, but was too nervous to say anything? 04:24, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ...I got it reversed. And I'm honestly not clear on who's joking here, and who isn't.  It should also be noted that I'm for legalized prostitution, so I don't think less of anyone who sells their body, but it concerns me that I would feel so much, yes, Schadenfreude if one of a number of girls was involved in the world's oldest professions knowing that the girl would probably not be happy about it.  Although, the number of girls I would wish such a thing on is very small (not girls who didn't like me, girls who went to great lengths to make my life miserable).--Mustex (talk) 04:26, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't think less of anyone who sells their body but you do think it's a good punishment for girls who went to great lengths to make your life miserable. Makes perfect sense. -- 04:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * May I point out that most of the girls in escort and phone sex ads are models, as such are not usually involved in the business they are promoting? 04:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, did not know that. (BTW, Mei, I was saying I enjoy knowing assholes are miserable. I'd think the same thing if they were working at McDonald's).  I'm already starting to regret making this thread.--Mustex (talk) 04:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Make a YouTube video about it.-- 04:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Escorts, like you phone up when you need someone for dinner or a party ? nothing wrong with that. A number of women in my college classes were working as hookers, made lots of cash and they didnt seem to mind. The thought makes you human , and your concience bothers you a littel , which is kinda cute. Hamster (talk) 05:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, good to know.--Mustex (talk) 05:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That sounds like an outstanding idea, Mustex. I'm sure Nx could bang out a script for it...  10:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I need a script that can tell me if some guy I used to know has become an irrelevant youtube personality. -- 17:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm also an irrelevant comic book reader. Not really sure hobbies are supposed to make you relevant.--130.160.98.126 (talk) 21:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of that Kids in the Hall Braincandy sketch where the researcher at the pharmaceutical company is pitching a drug that gives crabs to ex-girlfriends to the board of directors and their only concern was that ex-girlfriends was too narrow a demographic. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 20:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)