Talk:Andrew B. Chung/archive1

Trolling by Chung/MU!! revealed
The user MU!! from the mind energy forum is a parody troll account who has been making fake accounts of people. See here for the evidence. Perhaps a section about this can be added to the article. Forests (talk) 17:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * MU!! has been banned from the mind-energy forum. There is no need to add a paragraph about him to the article, since he isn't representative of the forum. Max (talk) 19:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Max I have just been over to the Mind Energy forum, it appears a user has signed up in Feb 2013 under the username of "forests" and is pretending to be me. It is NOT me. I pissed about about this. Please ASAP if you can ask the admin to do an IP check, if it tracks to the IP 188.165.1.52 then it is indeed MU!! The user MU!! is a 63 year old peadohile who is now making fake account of me on multiple forums and leaving very perverse comments. This user recently joined this forum and was leaving sexist and sexual comments (I have screenshots). Please get the admins to ban that account, it is not me! This is real abuse to blacklist my name. I am not a freak like this user, this dude is some 60 year old sicko. He may have multiple IPs as he said he has recently moved from America to Ireland. Forests (talk) 20:54, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Couldn't you two guys just email each other?--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 21:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I have left him an email address on his page, but he has not responded. The user MU!! has been joining paranormal/spiritual forums in the two weeks under the username "forests", pretending to be me, and leaving offensive comments and linking to rationalwiki. My name is blacklisted now as many people on these forums think I actually wrote all these things. Forests (talk) 21:11, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The account "forests" has already been banned from the mind-energy forum on Monday, and all content involving him deleted. MU!!, in the past, has also abused my name (the one that I'm using on the mind-energy forum, which is not "Max") to write offensive things on other websites, so I actually believe you that he's now doing the same thing to you. It is terrible, and I feel sorry for that.


 * MU!! has been trolling numerous websites and newgroups, Usenet in particular, for over a decade. Do a Google search on names like "Ari Silverstein", "Frank Camper", or "wilburn" (preferably in combination with "Usenet", e. g. ["Ari Silverstein" Usenet], ["Frank Camper" Usenet], [wilburn Usenet]) to see the full dimension of his trolling. As for Frank Camper: There is a real person with that name who is a former American soldier and mercenary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Camper). MU!!, under his various names, often claims to be this person (or uses sockpuppets to create rumors about himself to that effect). However, he does the same with remote viewing researcher Courtney Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtney_Brown_%28researcher%29), so it's most probably just bullshitting and attention seeking in both cases. Max (talk) 14:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The user MU!! might be a user called "Open Mind" on the skeptiko forum, perhaps IP checks should be done, he has a similar writing style, swears in his posts and has said some wacky things, he says that the Helen Duncan photographs were a mass conspiracy set up by the British Intelligence to undermine the mediumship of Helen Duncan and that the Duncan photos depicting dolls were not actually her, but were of another lady all set up to destroy the mediumship reputation of Duncan, lol. Such a conspiracy is so stupid to take seriously, it is unclear if it is trolling or not, you would have to be in an unhealthy state of mind to suggest such a thing, and it sounds similar to the things MU was claiming on the badpsychics and skeptiko forums before he was banned. Remember MU moves around multiple locations, his latest is in Ireland. Someone was recently posting as me on Michael Prescott's blog, as well as Michael E. Tymn's blog post on ectoplasm until I went on there and set the record straight. Another user has popped up called "David" who this "open mind" user is claiming is me, well it is not me. I am convinced this MU!! character has a split personality and he creates different accounts opposing spiritualism whilst on others supporting it. I don't know what the case is but it might be a case of dissociative identity disorder. I can also confirm that last week MU!! created a user pretending to be me on this forum but was thankfully banned in an hour. His latest internet activities seem to be posting on this forum, which I don't think he has been banned on (yet). Forests (talk) 19:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't find Open Mind's writing style similar at all. He makes many minor spelling mistakes (probably because he doesn't proofread his posts) and often uses dots ("text .... text ....... text..."); MU!!'s spelling, on the other hand, is very good, and he doesn't make use of dots in the way Open Mind does. Just to give two examples.
 * I personally don't think that MU!! is currently active on the mind-energy forum under another name. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that he might still have a "lurk account", or an account with very few posts, but if he were one of the users with, say, 20+ posts, I'm very sure I'd already have spotted him.
 * Btw, I'm not sure if MU!! is actually moving around multiple locations, as you say. AFAIK, he's using "Tor" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29), which allows one to use IPs from different locations without actually being there. Max (talk) 10:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I have just spent some time looking into all of this and I discovered that MU has been pretending to be Courtney Brown on some forums for over a year, but hes also pretended to be Andrew Chung. I looked up Andrew Chung he has been described as a fraud trying to sell a bogus diet to people. I have not emailed Andrew Chung yet, but an interesting read here on the skeptiko forum. I am not wasting anymore of my time on this but I would point out that according to a post on your skeptiko forum, MU has been known for posting "anti-Semitism and homophobia". It is amazing how he had 100s of posts on the skeptiko forum before anything was done. Also when I was speaking to MU on the badpsychics forum before he was banned, he was being racist and calling three of us, asians or mongoloids. All very strange behavior considering that he has pretended to actually be an asian man Andrew Chung himself. As I said this user has some kind of split personality.
 * Also see his latest post on this forum. Here is what he writes "Sure, it is easy, and we certainly should, ignore the "forests'" and the Jon Dennis' since their ultimate contributions are to embarass themselves, disparage their own malicious causes and derail their less than moral efforts to persuade. It amazes me how he can use the word moral and try and degrade others, when he has been banned on many forums for posting peadophilic, homophobia, sexist, sexual abusive comments etc and indulging in sock accounts and identity theft. He is one of the most notorious trolls that I have seen on the internet. Sooner or later I do hope he is finally exposed and that he does get in trouble for the things he has done. As Jon Donnis said, some of the stuff he has posted has broken laws. I also still think Open mind might be MU becuase Open Mind was asked if he had ever heard of MU!! and he replied that he had never heard of that name, well just look on the skeptiko forum and MU had 100s of posts. I am not wasting anymore time looking into this, as I said sooner or later he will be exposed. He has a long internet history of abuse and it will catch up with him one day. Forests (talk) 02:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * What the Elavated user posted on the Michael Prescott blog is interesting but it sounds like a fraud account. Note how a user on that forum is claiming I am Elevated (it is not me), secondly note how MU has recently turned up posting on that blog on the same day as Elavated. Could be the same person. I also find it odd how users on that blog (skeptiko users) are being friendly to MU when he was banned on the skeptiko forum and they seem unware that he has been posting sexual abuse to people on multiple other forums. He writes "The pseudoskeptical POV is prepared by extraordinarily ordinary and unexceptional hypocrites. Randi, Wiseman, French, Coyne, Myers...and their forum clones...are these people that you would swell you with pride to have rendezvous your daughters?" Freak!! Forests (talk) 05:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Further information about the internet predator and troll MU needed
As you know a user who was banned on the skeptiko forum and countless of other forums known as "MU" has been creating fake accounts of people for many years, and he has also made fake accounts of myself. He has a history of posting sexually abuse comments to people under peoples username in an attempt to blacklist their name. Considering that he is still make fake accounts of people and pretending to be people, I am trying to discover this guys identity to pass his details onto someone who might be able to look into this, indeed one day he will get in trouble for what he has been doing on the internet. Any help please needed.

The relationship between Dr. Andrew Chung and MU

 * A google search for "andrew b. chung" "mu" reveals a history of online abuse, harressment and cyber bullying.


 * Likewise a google search found here for "andrew chung" "mu" reveals six pages of forums (some on usenet) that are filled with abuse posted by MU or this Chung character and many posts concluding they are sockpuppets.


 * This website also concludes that both Chung and Mu are frauds from the Atlanta area.


 * According to this website Andrew Chung is "MU".
 * I recently have communicated with Dr. Andrew Chung over email. Chung denies that he is MU and has said that MU is "Dr." Brian G. Kelley who is a fraud who pretends to be a psychologist on the usenet forums. Any details on this "Brian Kelley" would be useful. Further communication with Chung has proven that Chung is a liar. Chung has meet MU according to his own posts.


 * On the skeptiko forum thread found here MU claimed knows Andrew Chung and on the usenet forums claims he meets up with him on a regular basis.


 * A google search for Chung and MU reveals hundreds of usenet posts where they are claiming to know eachother and or be eachother. Chung appears to be an orthodox Christian, this does not fit the background for MU's claims of extraterrestial intervention or devout spiritualist beliefs.


 * According to this post both Chung and MU are friends in real life. Link


 * A post from the above site reads "Chung and Mu play their trolling game with exquisite choreography. Mu makes his scurrilous, often vicious, usually untrue statments and Chung "replies" to them so they're posted one more time. It's been a standard play for them for years. Mu goes away now and then and has claimed to have been in Iraq or doing some other James Bond business. Some people believe that the two are the same person, but that seems unlikely given their differences in style and claims. They claim to meet each other in the Atlanta area; residence obviously unclear for Mu, Chung's a matter of public record."

Is MU Courtney Brown?
MU on the usenet forums for years was pretending to be a man known as Courtney Brown, Google search "MU" and "Courtney Brown" reveals many hits. Further evidence reveals Brown could be MU:

himself as Courtney Brown, that makes MU a thief and a liar. However, Chung did not indicate that the video MU posted of himself, was really a video of someone else. Chung would recognize weather or not that was MU's riding gear and motorcycle."
 * "MU identified himself as Courtney Brown, with empirical evidence video provided by "MU" himself. If MU stole the video to misrepresent


 * It appears MU posted a video of himself on a moterbike. Video can be found here:


 * MU shows his stuff


 * This is the SAME video which appears on the youtube channel of Courtney Brown Motorcycle Turns ... With Panache!


 * According to this post by a user, Chung, Brown and MU all know eachother and they could be the same person:


 * "This also proves truth is not in Andrew Chung, who is a the pathological liar he always bespeaks of. Like "MU", who lies about having channeled Buddha and Jesus and pretends to send people to jail (lately his sockpuppet). "MU", who was pushed into revealing himself as emaciated with his hair all fallen out. Just as Andrew B. Chung was pushed into making a silly video of himself where his emaciated body and swollen belly (ascites) due to malnutrition was revealed. The duplicitous are easily pushed into revealing the truth about themselves." Link.


 * Chung is an Asian man (photographs on his website) he does not look anything like Courtney Brown a Caucasian man who has a shaved head and looks older in his 60s? Link. According to other websites they both know eachother. Is it possible that MU has been pretending to be both these people? Well Chung in some of his own posts admitted to knowing MU, but an email to Chung claims he does not know him. Either way I think it is safe to say both Chung and MU know eachother. I do not think they are the same person. Could MU be Courtney Brown? An email to Brown is in the works. Any further details please needed.

Recent activities
MU recent activities seem to be making fake accounts of anti-spiritualists such as "Forests" or Jon Donnis on one forum. He was banned on the bad psychics forum for posting peadophilic, sexist, sexual and homophobic material. On that forum he claimed to be a 50 year old female. He changes he genders on different accounts but it is clear it is a guy from some of the dirty comments he has been spouting. He already has a history of posting sexual comments on the usenet forums.


 * Mu was banned on the skeptiko forum. His profile found here claims he is 61 years old. This seems to fit the background of Courtney Brown. According to the wikipedia page of Courtney Brown he is a believer in spirits. Brown and MU could be the same person considering MU is also a spiritualist. But Brown is a social scientist at Emory University would he really post sexually abusive comments to people and pretend to be different people over the internet?


 * MU has made fake accounts of "Forests" and posted on both Michael Prescott's blog and the blog of Michael E. Tymn.


 * MU was banned on the Spiritlove forum and portal for posting sexually abusive comments.


 * MU has been on several other forums making fake accounts of people.


 * If you check the history of this talk page this MU user has been vandalising this page with comments such as "As this talk page is monitored by homosexual users from the skeptiko forum", "I just want gay sex. Can't that MU!! bastard just leave me alone? Waaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!" and "luv me sum MU!! and it is my bestest wish to swall me sum MU!! cum" and other comments. His recent email address 200.35.149.224 tracks to Infolink Panama Corp. Source note there is an email to a Miguel Abood on there. Perhaps he can look into it. Ecologist (talk) 11:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

MU and the relationship between Brown and Chung
Both Courtney Brown and Andrew Chung denied being MU when I first spoke to both of them. . . However, see the recent edits on this page at the bottom. There is now 100% conclusive proof linking Chung and MU. Chung also sent me death threats in his emails (I have screenshots). Forests (talk) 00:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

MU emailing people gay porn
MU recently emailed me on an email address chrismartin5130@gmail.com sending me gay porn. He signed his comment "Eveshi". The user "Eveshi" appears to be a user on the skeptiko forum. More proof he pretends to be people he is not. According to admins of forums I have spoken to that he has been banned from, he also uses the email addresses ljgdaouteq@hotmail.com and qetuoadgjl@tormail.org. He has been banned on many forums for sending people sexual abuse.


 * Hi Forests, I am the user "eveshi" from the mind-energy.net forum. The mail was obviously not sent by me. It is not the first time that MU!! abuses my name. On the mind-energy.net forum, he wrote sexually abusive messages to people, too, using the names "eveshi." and "eveshi_". He also trolled the AboveTopSecret.com forum under my name. I'm sorry that you got this nonsense from him.


 * Btw, I can confirm that he uses the mail address ljgdaouteq@hotmail.com. He did also use it on the mind-energy.net forum. Max (talk) 15:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Do not feed the troll
MU is a notorious internet troll and sexual pervert. I will not post anymore on his history as he seems to feed off the attention. He is on Michael Prescott's blog posting under the username of "trees" and will probably create countless of other fake accounts. He has also posted on rationalwiki on the IP 200.35.149.224 and left me sexual abusive comments on my page (check the history). All we can hope is that the police catch up with him one day. It would be best if nobody else posts on this page, and it is left for whoever he pretends to be and so others know the details of this dangerous MU character and the fraud and filth he has been up to over the years. Forests (talk) 13:10, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

My opinion
I am Jon Donnis, I got a name check earlier up the page.

Forests posted on my forum, I never had any problem with him, he posted intelligently, and quickly became a valued member of my forum.

A member of the SpiritLove forum decided to start attacking Forests, and soon after MU joined the forum and posted his hate.

I have no reason whatsoever to believe Forests and MU are the same person, in fact I am pretty sure they are not. It seems very clear that someone who dislikes Forests has taken it upon themselves to impersonate him, and generally cause trouble for him.

This has happened to me many times in the past, during the height of my websites popularity (BadPsychics) anyone who was skeptical who showed a bit of passion on a forum would be accused of being me. I had many many impersonators, and even had websites created to "expose me".

Do you have any idea how hurtful and upsetting such things can be?

There is someone trolling, but it is not the Forests who joined and posted on my forum, someone of whom I have their personal details, their university email and so on. I have spent nearly a decade exposing frauds, its what I do. But I see no evidence here, no evidence on my forum in fact no evidence whatsoever that the user Forests who posted on my forum is the same as the user MU who was quickly banned from my forum.

Whoever is behind this campaign is reading this page and laughing at how worked up they have made you all. You are like children who think you have uncovered some master plot.

It is this simple people, if someone joins your forum/site/blog etc and they post material which is illegal, breaks your rules, or whatever you delete them, ban them, whatever.

To be honest if Forests really did create a login called MU on my forum, what did it achieve? Nothing, everything that was posted was deleted in under an hour, yet all the hard work and great posts by Forest remain.

I have been dealing with Trolls and trouble makers on forums and websites since the mid 90s!

So to see you lot getting so hot and bothered really is quite sad for me.

Instead of worrying who is really who, instead concentrate on exposing fake psychics, expose bullshit healers.

You are all welcome to debate the paranormal on my forum, and keep in mind anyone on this page can be anyone else! Its the internet! We are all just text on a screen, dont forget that, close the lid on your laptop and it all disappears!

Now time for you all to grow up.

ps. One name none of you have mentioned as a potential person behind this trolling is Victor Zammitt! With my own very limited research, in a matter of seconds I ended up looking at him.

You can find me at the BadPsychics forum (Google it)


 * Hi Jon, I also once thought that MU!! might be Zammit, but after comparing texts by Zammit (from his website and his Facebook page) with posts by MU!!, I've come to the conclusion that they're probably different persons. Their writing styles do not match IMO.


 * However, it wouldn't surprise me if MU!! were another (more or less) "big name" from the spiritualism and physical mediumship community. On the mind-energy.net forum, he often mentioned the Campaign for Philosophical Freedom (http://www.cfpf.org.uk), and on another forum (I don't remember which one it was), he also claimed to know Michael Roll (the founder of the CFPF) personally. I consider it possible that he is associated with the CFPF in some way. Max (talk) 12:55, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is the post where he claims to know Michael Roll: http://www.spiritualismlink.com/t2032p15-have-you-seen-this#16242 Max (talk) 02:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Mu is a friend of Jim jwarwood@robernmenz.com.au and he still posts on his forum spiritualismlink. I recently spoke to Jim and he told me MU had done nothing wrong and that MU does not post sexual comments to people and that it is us doing it. lol this guy is a gullible lemon and does not know the truth about the sick side to Mu. I have had to delete my email becuase MU keeps emailing me pornography and sending spam. If you cease contact with this Mu individual then he will stop, he feeds on the attention. Hes been blocked on all the blogs and forums he was trolling and they have all been made private now. Hes got nothing left. At the end of the day I have done nothing wrong and I couldnt care less anymore if he keeps creating fake accounts sending people abuse with "forests" in the title, I know the truth at the end of the day about all of this and I can sleep with a clean conscience, he can;t becuase hes a dirty guy who has sent all those bad comments. I couldn't care less what people think of me, if they believe in the lies of MU then that is their gullibilty. I have spoken to both Roll and Zammitt it has nothing to do with them but they did suggest that they may know who it is (a friend of Jim) I think that is as far as we will get to his real identity. Theres no reason to continue any of this as I said I quit this website and am no longer interested in debating Spiritualism, I am very busy with college work and have no interest in debating people online anymore im into independent research. if you see any posts anywhere on anyother forum it is not me. cheers. Forests (talk) 04:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * OMG, this Warwood chap definitely needs a reality check! oO
 * I sent you some emails some hours ago, did you receive them? (As you seem to have deleted your email address, the answer is probably no.) If not, do you have an alternative email address where I can contact you? If so, feel free to write me an email from that address. Max (talk) 04:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It is probably a mixture of Zammitt, Roll and some of their underlings, I am guessing a group of them do it to laugh and watch idiotic skeptics and even more idiotic believers fight and accuse each other. I have had my fair share of run ins especially with Zammitt, I guess he doesn't like being made to look a fool, something I did on a few occasions. Jon Donnis


 * I consider it unlikely that "MU!!" is a "group account" of different people. The writing style (spelling, sentence structure, choice of words, usage of smileys, etc.) of his posts indicates IMO that they're all written by the same person. Also, as I wrote above, MU!! has been trolling various websites -- Usenet in particular -- for over a decade, also ones that have nothing to do with the skeptic-believer debate (e. g. the Jethro Tull Usenet group). If "MU!!" were a collective of Zammit, Roll, etc., would they really do all of this for such a long time?


 * To me, it clearly looks like the work of a single madman. Max (talk) 14:13, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I was a short time member on a Spiritualismlink forum under the username of "Thunders". MU is active on the Spiritualismlink forum in one post he wrote "Sure, it is easy, and we certainly should, ignore the "forests'" and the Jon Dennis' since their ultimate contributions are to embarass themselves, disparage their own malicious causes and derail their less than moral efforts to persuade." The admin of the website is Jim Warwood and says he is not interested in MU's activites off the forum and refuses to ban him. MU is an old timer and long time member of the Spiritualist community (attending seances since the 1970s), he is not Roll or Victor (but he probably knows them). Only Jim knows his full identity but refuses to reveal it. Apparition (talk) 22:38, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Apparition, did Jim say that he knows MU!!'s identity? Max (talk) 23:05, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

MU pretending to be Jon Donnis, Forests, and eveshi
MU has posted many new comments under the username "The Real Jon Donnis" and "Forests". Just some of his comments:


 * "forests has MU!! dead cold. I admit to sending him a FedEx of my cum. It's not my fault he would pay $175.00 and I needed sum chump change. LOL"
 * "I was banned from Jon Donnis' forum Bad Psychics because he wanted me to perform cunnilingus on his dog Trixie. I draw the line on animals."
 * "Rubbish! The stupid pet tricks you're pulling right here with your Followups shows everyone what a dick you are. Even if you hadn't come right out and told us what a childish, vindictive little twat you are we'd know why you were repeatedly banned from my forums. Thank your lucky stars you can hide behind a keyboard whilst acting like a 2 year old. If you did it in real life you'd likely have your teeth manually removed." posted by "The Real Jon Donnis"
 * "MU!! Anonymous and Jon Donnis You are the ugliest pigfuckers in the universe. You are the coward without ethics. You call me a 'newbie' - ha! what an asshole you are. There is absolutely no way you could identify me as Darryl not unless you had the sort of subpoena power that only gets turned on for big-time terrorists. That's because I chose to be anonymous. Some people don't. Only really stupid dicks like you choose the sort of semi-anonymity which leaves you in constant fear of me sneaking up behind you and reaming your colon a new one." I can't make any sense of this + tonnes of other nutty comments. This guy has created 4 accounts and is talking to himself! source Ecologist (talk) 02:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Many of the comments are old postings from him from Usenet, he just copied, pasted, and slightly modified them. For instance, if you google the sentence "not unless you had the sort of subpoena power that only gets turned on for big-time terrorists", you'll see that he posted it on many different forums. Max (talk) 10:27, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

- MU!! now also abused Michael Prescott's name on Prescott's blog. Max (talk) 12:48, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

- MU!! also claimed that I -- i. e. "eveshi" from the mind-energy.net forum -- am a guy named "William Malone Griffith". The comment:


 * "Note the guitars in the background, the planet-sized head, the rotten-Chiclet-teeth, and general look of retardation.


 * Meet eveshi.


 * http://www.productwiki.com/william-malone-griffith-ii/lists/


 * http://images.productwiki.com/upload/images/william_malone_griffith_ii_avatar_1_0-150-150.jpg


 * He's got his father's nose and eyes:


 * http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/kentucky/guestbook.aspx?pid=2527782


 * http://mi-cache.legacy.com/usercontent/guestbook/photos/2005-09/6966764.jpg"

This is, of course, bullshit. I'm a 26-year-old guy from Germany and not this Griffith person. I just did a Google Search on the name, and it seems to be someone whom MU!! has been bullying in the past on Usenet (for whatever reasons). Max (talk) 13:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

- Recently, MU!! pretended to be Forests and me in the comment section of an article on The Daily Grail. I've contacted admin Greg Taylor about this issue. Max (talk) 12:23, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I just love the unstated assumption that anybody on this wiki actually cares about this weird dick-waving. It's so cute!--Weirdstuff (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * You're probably right that most people here don't care about this stuff (after all, why would they?). But it might be of interest to those who have to deal with MU!!'s disgraceful behavior directly. It would probably be better to put it on another website, though, as it doesn't really have much to do with RationalWiki. I might actually do this, but for the time being, I'm happy with leaving it here. Max (talk) 16:36, 28 March 2013 (UTC)


 * MU is posting and pretending to be you on the blog of Michael E. Tymn and is still causing trouble for me. Forests (talk) 02:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * MU is now using the email address shitdamnhell@tormail.org, this is what he sent me What comments on amazon? Those were not done by me. This has got out of hand. How many websites has he impersonated me on? Tymn needs to be told that none of this is me. Forests (talk) 02:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Fake accounts of eveshi
MU is pretending to be eveshi on various forums and recently emailed me this from the email address eveshi@gmx.com. A quick scan through his forum posts here reveals him supporting the bogus mediumship of Leslie Flint and Daniel Douglas Home etc, interestingly MU cites himself in some of his posts, for example he writes "I feel sorry for Lis and Jim Harwood and the forum regs (excluding MU!!) so firmly entrenched in Brit Spiritualism that anything that challenges it brings out the worst in them." This guy MU as Michael Prescott wrote on his blog definitely has a personality disorder. Forests (talk) 14:02, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * In the above email MU sent me, his name is signed "eveshi rammac". A user called "rammac" is posting on the blog of Michael E. Tymn, it is obviously MU. Forests (talk) 14:06, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Just to point out MU's fake account of eveshi was banned on this Keyboard Friends paranormal forum for sending people sexually abusive comments. . The only problem is that the admins of that site now believe MU and eveshi are the same person. I will get in contact with the admins and let them know it is not you. Forests (talk) 14:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I can confirm that the user MU emails people gay porn and posts peadophile comments, he has recently done it to someone else I know. He is a very sick guy. Once he gets hold of peoples email addresses, he also signs them up to porn/sex websites and spams them on websites to blacklist their name. He must have a very perverse internet history. I am sure the police are already onto him, he doesn't seem to realise that everything he has posted has been logged on the internet. On the spiritualismlink forum owned by Jim Harwood he admitted he knows and has met the medium David Thompson. He also claimed to be in the Florida area but has visited England. It is an old guy in his 60s who obviously is very peverted and has nothing to do but attack people over the internet. In real life he is obviously a coward. Apparition (talk) 15:14, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I have deleted my email becuase MU kept emailing and spamming me sexually offsensive comments and porn. He has also blacklisted my email by pasting it onto websites asking for sex. I took screenshots of his stuff and have it in a record for the police. Forests (talk) 13:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Fake accounts of eveshi and forests on the Paranormalia blog

 * MU is now making fake accounts of me, "eveshi" and others on the paranormalia blog of Robert McLuhan in the comments section, found here . Forests (talk) 13:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)


 * A user from the skeptiko forum known as "open mind" which keeps linking himself to in his username is posting on the paranormalia blog, 4 minutes after "eveshi" with the same grammar and writing style and also linking to the skeptiko forum in his username (only MU does this) . I am now convinced open mind = MU. Unless of course MU is now pretending to be this "open mind" person. I believe they are the same person considering they live in the same area, and are both revealed they are in their 60s and support the same debunked physical mediums. Forests (talk) 16:18, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Forests, I didn't have much time in the last few days, sorry. I'll come back to this soon. Max (talk) 23:12, 7 April 2013 (UTC)


 * MU is posting as you, me and "open mind" on the blog of Robert McLuhan. I am confused if MU is open mind or not. According to the skeptiko forum open mind has 1000s of posts, but he has a very similar writing style to MU (using smilies etc) and he showed up 4 minutes after his fake account of "eveshi" on the blog of Mcluhan, it is not a coincidence. MU also has a fake account of "eveshi" on the blog of Michael Prescott his recent posts supporting Roy Pearson a friend of Michael Roll. On the paranormal keyboard forum MU revealed he knows David Thompson in real life. As I have suspected all a long he is an old time member in the field of physical mediumship. Victor Zammit told me he may know who it is, but no conslusive proof. I have spoken to a user from the spiritualismlink forum and he has confirmed MU has also blacklisted his email by sending him porn. He has done the same to me. This guy has a split personality on his fake user "eveshi" he says psi does not exist, and then on his other fake accounts "open mind" etc he replies to himself and says it does exist. Forests (talk) 01:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think he is Open Mind. There are some similarities in their writing styles, but also differences (see above). I have also communicated a lot with Open Mind on the mind-energy.net forum, and he seems like a decent and honest person to me. I personally have no doubt that he is a different person. Max (talk) 02:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * MU is now posting as my username on the blog and is copying my posts from this talk page and mixing in with his own edits and sexual comments, for example he wrote:


 * "eveshi is posting as me and "open mind" I am confused if eveshi is open mind or not. According to the skeptiko forum open mind has 100,000s of posts, but he has a very similar writing style to eveshi(using smilies etc) and he showed up 4 minutes after his fake account of "open mind" on the blog of McLESS, it is not a coincidence. eveshi also has a fake account of "eveshi" on the blog of Michael Prescott his recent posts supporting Roy Pearson a friend of Michael Roll. On the paranormal keyboard forum eveshi revealed he knows David Thompson in real life not fake life. -- He copied this from my post above on this talk page.


 * He then wrote "As I have suspected all a long he is an old time member in the field of physical mediumship. I know he is zerdini. www.zerdinisworld.com. Victor Zammit told me he knew who it is, with conslusive proof. I have spoken to a user from the spiritualismlink forum and he has confirmed eveshi has also blacklisted his email by sending him porn. He has done the same to me. This guy has a split personality on his fake user "Pavil" he says psi does exist, and then on his other fake accounts "open mind" etc he replies to himself and says it does exist a contraindication of lo intelligents."


 * On his other post he writes ""open mind" the above few "darryl" comments, "eveshi" etc are all the same person MU and several friends whose IP ad dresses are now with MI6. I am accused of having a 20 yr old interwebs history of abuse and leaving people threats/sexual comments and being homosexual etc. If so then catch me, perscute me and throw me in a clinker. am not abusive or leave sex comments. The rest or gay OK so what?


 * He is copying half of my posts from this talk page and then editing in other nonsense to try and confuse things becuase he has realised he is going to get in trouble soon, he is now mentioning "zerdini". This is the most weirdest/nutty behavior I have seen.


 * It shows that he is a nutcase and this whole thing is a joke to him, he mentions MI6 for a joke and thinks all this is funny, what he doesn't realise is that there are now people looking into his internet activities, and all IP addresses are logged. Interestingly on his fake accounts of "eveshi" he pretends to be an atheist, but a Christian on his fake "open mind" account. It is the worse split personality disorder that I have seen. He sends gay porn and peadophilia to people, pretends to be people and leaves sexuallly abusive comments etc to people and thinks the entire thing is a joke. He is an internet predator who will hide behind the internet doing his sick activities, he is doing it behind the computer screen and thinks he is immune from getting caught. Sooner or later, however, he will be exposed. He obviously feeds off the attention as he keeps viewing this page, he is not sorry about what he has done, as I said it is all a joke to him. Hes psychotic with no conscience whatsoever, and he will just keep doing the fake accounts if he believes he is getting attention.


 * He has fake email addresses with your name in (see the address listed above) and two of me. Behind his forum activities has been emailing people pretending to be you. I have counted 12 emails that he has so far. As this guy is in his 60s he is retired (if he ever worked) and has no job, he obviously has nothing to do so will be doing this all day everyday. I am not posting on this website for a while, or viewing any of the other stuff. Hopefully if he is ignored he will move on to someone else (this cant go on forever, sooner or later he will get found), I noticed his recent target is "open mind". I am not sure if he is open mind or not, it would be best if you contacted "open mind". Robert McLuhan should also be emailed about this, the problem though is that MU already said he emailed him probably on his fake "eveshi" email, so if Robert reads any of MUs posts the whole thing is going to be confusing as he will just claim you or me are doing those troll posts on his blogs, but IP checks can confirm I am not him, I have posted a few times on his blog, but not anymore, any others are not me. The only way to solve it, is to lock comments or have them moderated like on the Prescott blog, sad, but the only way to remove this MU problem. Forests (talk) 09:26, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Robert McLuhan has done the correct thing and deleted all the troll comments from MU on his blog, now MU has no futher place to troll as he has been banned on everything else. I took screenshots though of some of his fake account comments. In these comments he admitted to being an atheist on his fake "eveshi" account. and also wrote on his "open mind" account that eveshi is a materialist. Forests (talk) 15:01, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, McLuhan has deleted the comments. That's good. I also informed him and Michael Tymn on Facebook that the comments were made by an imposter. What about the "Keyboard Friends" forum? Did you clear things up with the admins there? Otherwise, I'll contact them too. Max (talk) 15:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately the admins of the keyboard friends forum think you, me and MU are all the same person becuase MU was posting as you and me, my email address has been blacklisted by MU, so the admins of that site I have not been able to communicate with. The only way of getting their email address is to sign up to the forum, they are rejecting any new members. If you read over the posts on the forum though, one user claims to know MU and said he has been abusing women on dating websites. Before I deleted my email address, MU spammed my email box with sick stuff and one of his comments said he has made fake accounts of you and me on this forum . MU has also pretended to be a female called Kendra DeMorse, I noticed she is a member of that website. Forests (talk) 15:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information. I'll try to find out who the admins of that site are and send them an email. I'll also check the physicalmediumship4u forum. Max (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This guy is really the worst person I've ever encountered. One must have a very damaged mind to do all of this. Max (talk) 16:02, 8 April 2013 (UTC)


 * He has also created an account named "forests rammac" on spiritualforums.com . Max (talk) 01:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing this out. I just spent some time browsing that forum and discovered his main account MU has been banned. he has replied on that same thread with his new account. His location is listed as Florida, London and the Yucatan. Obviously his MU account was not a troll account on that forum, and the posts on it reveal his real beliefs and may lead to further clues of his identity. He has a fake account called "eveshi" on this forum but you need to be a member of the forum to view posts it seems.  Forests (talk) 02:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The account "forests rammac" has now been banned too. Btw, "rammaq" (with "q") is the name with which I posted on spiritualismlink.com (see here ), so this is where it originally comes from.


 * The location "Florida, London and the Yucatan" listed there is the same that he also gave on the mind-energy.net forum. I tend to think it is genuine. In this post on the Keyboard Friends forum, he wrote (using my name *rolleyes*) that he had séances with the mediums David Thompson, Steve Hermann, and Victor Vogenitz. Hermann and Vogenitz are from Cassadaga, Florida.


 * As for the "eveshi" account on the Spiritlove forum: This is actually my account. :) I created it some days ago to prevent MU!! from impersonating me there as well. Max (talk) 09:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I just discovered MU has created another fake account of you on the www.spiritualforums.com . Forests (talk) 19:01, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * MU has created a fake account called "forests aka Darryl the homosexual" on this forum . He has created threads such as "Seeking The Sucking Of MU!!" with copied comments from this rationalwiki page, and then my email address (which is now deleted) and the comment "only men respond" at the bottom" of his post. There are also posts from "Andrew B. Chung" on that forum. I have looked into Chung and spoken to him over email he is from Florida, he told me MU had been making fake accounts of him and he is not MU. I am not sure if I believe this Chung person, he also has been involved in spamming abuse on forums, unless of course none of it was him. Forests (talk) 17:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Fake accounts of eveshi and forests on the Spiritcharms forum

 * MU!! is now impersonating us on the Spiritcharms forum . The "eveshi" account (0 posts) got already banned, but the "forests" account (5 posts) is still active. Max (talk) 17:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * How many forums is he going to keep doing this on? He keeps mentioning Leslie Flint as genuine in his posts, obviously this is his way of getting back at me considering I debunked Flint. He thinks making a fake account of me pretending to be a spiritualist will annoy me lol. Watch his posts, he first starts off as "nice" on his fake accounts but after a while he then starts posting sexual abuse.   Forests (talk) 17:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * He apparently doesn't have any social life at all (I wonder why that is... *rolleyes*), which allows him to waste countless hours of his life with impersonating other people on the internet. What a miserable existence. Max (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes hes retired in his 60s, so hes online all day, everyday posting on forums with nothing else to do. Hes been pretending to be people for years it seems. Starting next week I go back to college and after that I am straight in a job full time, so I have no time to look into his internet activities anymore or try and expose his indentity. One day someone will catch him. As you and me are giving him no attention he will move onto someone else. Forests (talk) 20:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

MU posting abuse on the spiritlove portal
MU is posting as "forests" "eveshi" and "jondonnis" and as "Guest 1" and others on the spiritlove portal and posting sexually abusive comments. I was originally posting as "Guest 1" but he also made a fake account called "Guest 1" and posted abuse. He is also copying posts from this talk page onto it. Forests (talk) 18:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for informing me about this. Max (talk) 13:21, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The admin of that site has banned MU and locked the portal chatroom, but I got two screenshots of MUs abusive comments under the username MU!!, "forests" and an account called "Guest 1" which he copied off me, before he was banned, I merged them into one picture here as you can see MU is a very sick guy by the comments he left. In one comment he was insulting Victor Zammit so obviously he is not friends with Zammit. Forests (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is a screenshot I took off MU pretending to be eveshi on the dailygrail forum, before he was banned. Forests (talk) 19:59, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

MU posting abuse as eveshi, forests and mac on a blog
I just found this blog from a google search, it seems in the last week MU has been creating fake accounts of me, eveshi and a user called "Mac" and sending people sexually abusive comments. I have informed the admin about this page and MU's other trolling. Forests (talk) 21:52, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I left some comments under "darryl" on that blog, but MU has turned up and is now posting abuse as "darryl" to make out it is me. I have told the admin to do IP checks. Hopefully he will be banned. Forests (talk) 22:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Fake twitter account of eveshi
I just found this as MU linked it in one of his posts on the above blog. He has created a fake twitter account of eveshi calling him a nazi etc and there seems to be a load of abuse and lies about me that he has posted. Forests (talk) 22:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This guy is really a prime example of a psychopath. Max (talk) 11:55, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The real eveshi is no longer posting as "eveshi" on the internet
I have given up my "eveshi" accounts. See here and here. Anyone using that name (or similar names like "_eveshi_", "eveshi.", etc.) in the future will not be me.

The same is true for the name "rammaq", which I also used occasionally in the past, and which got also abused several times by now.

I put information about this issue in my profiles and signatures (with a link to this page here), so that anyone who isn't completely dumb will realize that the fake accounts aren't from me.

From now on, I won't bother with his fakery anymore.

One further announcement: If he should come up with the idea of faking me as "Max" as well, this won't work either. Not only is Max a relatively fakeproof nick, I also hereby declare that I'll not be posting -- under any name -- on any other website than this talkpage any time soon. (If something changes about this, I'll post it here.) Max (talk) 11:40, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Now he's crying victory on his Twitter account because I gave up my accounts. *rolleyes* He must be a very lonely person without any real-life successes if the fact that I'm no longer using a nick on the internet is a victory for him. Well done, MU!!, you're a hero. :D Max (talk) 15:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As was expected, he's now calling himself "eveshi MAX" on Twitter. This guy is clearly a "quantity over quality" troll. I'd give him props if he could create one single good fake account of me, but the dozens I've seen so far are really bad. Max (talk) 19:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * If you google search "eveshirammac" he is spamming the twitter account around interesting that a UK Ip address comes up he was posting from. Jim Harwood and Victor Zammit also wrote that MU is british. He probably has attended seances in Florida but I am now convinced he is in the UK.


 * On this post he wrote "I met Leslie Flint for the first time in London England in 1978; we both went to an event The Physic Dinner and Dance which took place for many years and was an occasion for mediums and healers meet to relax and learn about each other. The next time I sat with Leslie was in 1982. I was invited to sit with him in Paddington London in his home." . It is definitely an old guy who has been involved with physical mediums. One day I am sure his identity will be exposed.


 * The twitter account of MU is one of most weirdest things I have ever seen, it shows what unhealthy state of mind he is in, hes now posting abuse against Michael Prescott and posting as some guy called "mac". He has fake email addresses of me and has obviously been emailing people as he wrote on the astral woman blog, hes just causing more and more trouble. On one of his posts he linked to a website and it was animal porn, as I said before hes a sick guy, from his internet posting we can clearly assume his computer is filled with all kinds of perverted porn and he has nothing else to do. A lonely old man in his 60s, unmarried etc. I don't have time for this troll anymore. Like yourself I have deleted all my accounts on the internet. I read over his posts recently on the keyboard forum, he admitted his parents died when he was a kid (i dont think this was a troll comment), my theory is that he has suffered from trauma in his childhood or some sort of abuse and has ended up a perverted psychotic. Apparently some people get interested in the paranormal becuase they suffer from trauma or bad things in their life and they are drawn into it for a fantasy as they are not happy with their own life, I think this explains his physical mediumship interest and other nonsense he posts about spiritualism. He also admitted to being an atheist in one of his posts, and that God does not judge people etc. He doesn't believe in hell and he believes no matter what one does they still make it into the spirit world, so he doesn't care about all the sexual abuse he has been posting on the internet and fake accounts he has been creating of people.


 * I have upgraded your account to a Sysop, this means you can block people if MU decides to come onto this page and leave abuse. I already blocked three of his IP addresses for leaving sexual abuse. I don't think he will try that but just in case he does he can be blocked, but anyway I am not posting on this site anymore, very busy as I am going back to college next week and have no time for this troll anymore. Hes unemployed and has no social life and spends his life doing this. I want to live my life and dont want to waste it anymore on this troll, that is exactly what he wants, he craves on the attention becuase in real life he gets none. Hopefully this page will stay up for everyone to see the sick internet activities of MU, and may be helpful to anyone else who MU has abused on the internet. I don't usually agree with Prescott but his recent post may of contained some truth, what comes around goes around, and hopefully this internet predator MU will get what is coming to him. He will get caught one day. Forests (talk) 20:59, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Sysops Wow, that sounds cool! Thanks for the upgrade. :) Max (talk) 21:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

MU posting as lars
I just wanted to let people know MU's latest troll account is known as "lars" and his latest target seems to be Jon Donnis. He is now posting as "lars" pretending to have poor understanding of English, but you can tell that it is him, he uses the same insults, and the same "bit" links as seen on his troll twitter account. He is posting on the spiritualismlink forum and on the paranormalia blog of Robert McLuhan  and probably others. If any admins come across this page make sure to ban "lars" it is definitely another troll account of MU. Forests (talk) 14:20, 12 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Jim Harwood from the spiritualismlink forum has banned neither MU or Mus sockpuppet account "lars". This is very suspicious. Forests (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * MU is posting as "eveshi MU" on this website . There is a guy who could be MU on this website I have found. I recently browsed the physical mediumship 4U website. MU was banned on it in December 2012 but his posts are still visible. You need to be signed in to view the website . These are two older men who look in their 60s one is called nick pettitt and the other Jonathan Hughes, both have done many posts on the mediumship of Leslie Flint. I noticed MU has mentioned pettitt in some of his posts and linked to his videos, I say MU is pettitt or is a friend of him. Ecologist (talk) 23:48, 14 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I have spoken to Robin Foy and Nick Pettitt. Pettitt is not MU. MU has been in communication with Pettitt as seen here but he is not him . MU was banned from the Robin Foy physical mediumship 4U website for sending people abuse, you can also see MU talk about it here . Forests (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The link between Kenda DeMorse and MU
Kenda DeMorse is a paranormal researcher from Florida and according to two posts by MU before he was banned for posting abuse on the skeptiko forum, he was planning on meeting her.


 * MU wrote "I'm headed up to Casadaga, Fl with hopes of meeting with Kenda DeMorse. Take a look at her websites, she answers an occasional e-mail too." He also mentions the meeting with Demorse in this post . Last month on the blog of Michael Tymn, MU copied and pasted a post from Demorse (from her account on physical mediumship 4U and copied it onto the Michael Tymn blog under the username of "Rammac" . To view forum posts of people on the physical mediumship 4U website, you have to be logged in as a member, what this means, is that MU still has an account on this website . I have recently spoken to Robin Foy and he banned MU from his website last year, but as MU is known for creating countless sockpuppets, it is clear he is still a member on that site. It is possible that Kenda DeMorse has met MU and she knows his real identity. Forests (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I just been in communication with Kenda over email, she has never met MU or heard of him. I am beginning to suspect that all Mu's claims on forums of meeting mediums and paranormal researchers are lies. MU in his posts claims to have met Leslie Flint, Michael Roll and David Thompson this needs to be checked but I believe they are just more lies as well. Forests (talk) 15:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

MU and Zerdini
There is a a man called zerdini (real name George Cranley) from the UK who has been involved in physical mediumship for 50 years. Some people have emailed me saying that MU is Zerdini and that this Zerdini person abuses people on the internet and has a police record for sexually harassing people. A google search for Zerdini reveals many mediumship blogs and forums that he is on. On the mind energy forum, Zerdini and MU defend eachother on some of their threads and seem to be attacking Robin Foy. It has been suggested that Zerdini could be a sockpuppet of MU, there is also evidence that they have posted very similar things.

A couple of points here. Firstly I don't believe Zerdini is MU for a couple of reasons. Zerdini is very open and uses his real name etc and location on the internet, a lot of people know where he lives etc from the scene in physical mediumship. On this post here on his website, zerdini is talking to MU. We all know that MU has a record of talking to himself on multiple sockpuppet accounts, but there is virtually no audience on the blog of Zerdini. I don't see why he would talk to himself on his own blog. I have also spoken to Zerdini over email and he gave me the IP address of MU and his email address that he was posting from, which was qetuoadgjl@tormail.org which has already been mentioned on this page, as well as the IP address 217.115.113.222 apparently Zerdini is also in ill health and is around the age of 80, I don't think an 80 year old would be making fake twitter accounts of people or posting perverted porn like MU does to people.

I can confirm that MU is still reading this page, as his twitter comments confirm. Don't worry MU won't be long until we have discovered your indentity. By the way once I have got your identity and informed the police I am also going to confront you face to face! Oh and by the way perverts such as yourself usually get beaten up in prison :) Forests (talk) 16:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

A 100% link confirmed between Andrew B. Chung and MU

 * Andrew B. Chung a fraud/quack doctor from Atlanta, Georgia who has been trolling google and usenet forums for over 12 years abusing people and posting spam about Christianity is confirmed to be 100% associated with MU. A google search for "Andrew B. Chung" reveals the spam he has been posting on forums for many years . Even before Chung was fired from his job he was still online all day spamming forums. He seems to have no life at all outside of internet forums.


 * Chung denied he knows MU to me in a series of previous emails but after further research his own internet posts mention that he has met MU. Chung is a confirmed liar. See here where Chung is talking to MU and in communication with other users denying that he is MU himself.


 * Andrew B. Chung's email is achung@emorycardiology.com I recently emailed him asking him why he has been posting sexual abuse on his MU sockpuppet account, and in reponse he sent me death threats. If Chung was innocent and was not associated or behind this MU account then why did he send me threats? Chung is 100% involved with this MU person.


 * MU has admitted to being a former patient of Andrew B. Chung. MU wrote "So off I went to my cardiologist, Dr. Andrew Chung and we collaborated on the problem. Chung came up with The Two Pound Diet and MU!! added to it with An Ounce Of Common Sense.".

Both Chung and MU use the same phrase "Truth is Simple"

 * Both MU and Andrew B. Chung use the same phrase "truth is simple" in their posts.


 * A Google search for "Chung" "truth is simple" reveals many hits. also see here on the alt. atheism forum where Chung pastes in absurd Christian comments and uses the phrase "truth is simple".


 * A Google search for "Mu" "truth is simple" reveals many hits . Mu also used "truth is simple" in his posts on spiritualforums.com and on the mind energy forum.

Both Chung and MU post on the same forums
If you google search "Andrew B. Chung" and "MU" both appear on many forums together abusing and insulting people and they even hosted their own challenge to people offering to prove to people for money they are not the same person, for a meet up in the Atlanta area  (of course the meet up never happened, and there is no complete proof they are separate people). They called this the "MU $10,000 challenge.


 * Both Chung and MU post on the same forums at the same times and. MU and Chung also have many fake emails and suckpuppets including an email known as munospam@fastmail.fm.


 * One user wrote that MU = Michael Underwood.


 * As already documented, MU has a history of posting people horrible peadophile comments and perverted porngraphy. He and Chung have also been accused of being peadophiles by other users.


 * MU has been on the internet posting on many blogs and forums that he is a a strength trainer who has worked with professional athletes and the military, of course he has lied about everything on the internet so there is no proof he has worked in these fields. On the skeptiko forum MU wrote "I used to train athletes and dealt with post rehab for the majority of my work. we had a series of force absorption and force generation skill tests where we would observe the power efficiency of the athlete"..


 * It is 100% confirmed that Chung is involved with this MU account, either he is MU himself or he knows this person. Forests (talk) 17:44, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Courtney Brown and Andrew B. Chung
On the facebook page of Andrew B. Chung, the university "Emory University" is listed this is the same university that Courtney Brown goes to. Courtney Brown denied knowing Andrew B. Chung and Chung said he has never heard of Courtney Brown, but a google search reveals a link between them both MU identified himself in some of his posts as Courtney Brown (posting a video of Brown on a bike and claiming it is him) and in his own posts Chung admitted to knowing Brown. More proof Chung is a liar and is involved with the MU account. Forests (talk) 18:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Video of Andrew B. Chung
LMAO this guy is small. This is the real Andrew B. Chung not so big is he in real life!! He only thinks hes big when he hides behind the internet posting people sexual abuse and sending people death threats. Forests (talk) 18:19, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * See 1:39-1:50 in this video when Chung walks and sits in his chair, this guy Chung is a midget! Even the female interviewer is bigger than him! and note this interview was on the news! One of Chungs patients followed his advice and starved her daugher to death. So not only is chung a sexual pervert and internet troll, hes also a murderer. Forests (talk) 18:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Forests I am sure you are aware that MU is watching every edit on this talkpage as confirmed on his troll twitter account . Within minutes of you posting Chung is small from that video, MU has gone onto the google groups forum which he has trolled for years with Chung on the sci.med.cardiology and is posting gay comments about Chung and eveshi etc on a sockpuppet account called "Darryl Homo Forests" and even cites the video you posted . Now this could be reverse psychology and a tactic Chung is now doing becuase he is scared he might get in trouble for his internet activities or it could be that Chung and MU are two different people. Yes there is a relationship between Chung and MU (both claimed to have met eachother in real life) but I do not think they are the same person. If we all stop posting on this talkpage and report his twitter account and get it deleted then he may stop trolling you and move onto someone else. Remember MU is old in his 60s, has no job and no life outside of internet trolling... don't let him ruin your life with his trolling. Just ignore it and in a month it will all be forgotten. As has already been stated he craves on the attention, dont give him any and he will have no audience to troll. Ecologist (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)


 * MUs real name = Chris Martin? :) Forests (talk) 20:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * View MUs posts on his twitter account he seems to have an obsession with baldness i.e. calling Brown and Prescott bald etc. I think this is an insecurity he has himself due to his old age and ill health. On the blog of Michael Prescott MU also posted racist abuse against white people and referred to users on that blog as "white boy" and "white man"... more insecurities from Chung? According to posts on the sci.med.cardiology MU posted a picture of his head and all of his hair had fallen out, apparently the ponytail of Chung is also a wig. Ecologist (talk) 19:42, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

MU/Chung abusing more blogs
See the latest tweet on the troll twitter account of MU he is now posting sexually perverse things on the Grahame Mackenzie www.spiritoday.com website and taking screenshots of his posts and pretending they were written by me (using the name Ecologist). A waste of time considering the posts are moderated before they are approved by Grahame Mackenzie! Major Fail peadophile MU. Ecologist (talk) 19:42, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to continue this discussion. MU is Chung. The "truth is simple" phrase that they put at the end of their internet posts is enough evidence to prove it. Also Mu's lies about being a former athlete trainer fit the claims of Chung. See this video here where Chung can't even do a proper push-up . On the google cardiology forums that Chung/MU has been spamming for years everyone knows he is a troll and internet predator . He has no reputation to defend. There are also posts accusing him of posting sexual abuse under his own username of Chung this matches what the MU account does. According to users on the google and usenet forums Chung has posted people homosexual content, this would fit the background of MU who is clearly not straight as he sends people gay comments and perverted pornography etc.


 * Chung has spammed forums for years with quotes from the bible, and the same quotes about Jesus which appear on his website appear in some of the posts of MU. See MU quoting Jesus here just for an example . If you read through MUs posts on the spiritualforums before he was banned, he mentions Jesus many times in his posts.


 * Both Chung and MU have countless of sockpuppet accounts. One of MUs troll accounts was called Poogie . Chung/MU has an account on the abovetopsecret.com forum called MUness and by reading through his posts he believes in everything from aliens, Christian Spiritualism to ectoplasm and remote reviewing . He also mentions Courtney Brown in his posts.


 * In most of his posts MU referred to himself in third person, when I emailed Andrew Chung, Chung refered to himself in third person.


 * MU has a long history of sending people death threats, when I emailed Chung he sent me death threats. Both Chung/MU have a similar writing style and both log in at the similar times (see above).


 * This post here from MU quoting the Bible and signing his post "Truth is simple" is 100% evidence linking Chung and MU as Chung does that in countless of his posts (see above).


 * MU/Chung has a sockpuppet called raggin where he admitted to attending a remote reviewing lecture of Courtney Brown..


 * Mu has written that he is a former patient of Chung, but as MU has lied in all of his posts there is no way to confirm this. All the evidence points to Chung = MU. All the forum and website owners of the mediumship/spiritualism community all know that MU is a troll account and a sexual pervert. He has blacklisted his own name. He has nowhere left to troll apart from his perverted twitter account. So Game over Chung/MU. Forests (talk) 03:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It needs to be made clear on the article that parapsychology is a pseudoscience
The skeptiko users seem to claim parapsychology is a science. It is not:

Precognition violates the principle of antecedence ("causality"), according to which the effect does not happen before the cause. Psychokinesis violates the principle of conservation of energy as well as the postulate that mind cannot act directly on matter. (If it did no experimenter could trust his own readings of his instruments.) Telepathy and precognition are incompatible with the epistemological according to which the gaining of factual knowledge requires sense perception at some point.

The typical parapsychologist does not excel at handling formal tools, in particular statistics. Thus he consistently selects the evidence ("optional stopping" of a sequence of trials); he does not disinguish a coincidence (accidental or spurious correlation) from a causal relation or a genuine correlation; and he is not fond of mathematical models or even or informal hypotheico-deductive systems; his few hunches are stray.

Parapsychology makes no use of any knowldge gained in other fields, such as physics and physiological psychology. Moreover, its hypotheses are inconsistent with some basic assumptions of factual science. In Particular, the very idea of a disembodied mental entity is incompatible with physiological psychology; and the claim that signals can be transmitted across space without fading with distance is inconsistent with physics. Worse, parapsychologists brush these inconsistences aside, claiming that they deal with nonphysical phenomena, so that physicists and over natural scientists are not competent to study them.

Parapsychology is extremely poor in problems: all its problems boil down to that of establishing that there are paranormal phenomena, i.e. facts that cannot be explained by science. Nor is this problem formulated in clear terms, and this becuase of the appalling theoretical indigence of parapsychology.

Despite being several thousand years old, and having attracted a large number of researchers over the past hundred years, we owe no single firm finding to parapsychology: no hard data on telepathy clairvoyance, precognition or psychokinesis, and no hypotheses to explain these alleged phenomena. All parapsychologists tell us is that that these alleged data are anomalous, i.e. unexplained by science of the day.

They suggest no mechanisms and propose no theories. Compare this behavior with that of a scientist, say an astronomer. If an astronomer were to find that a certain celestial object does not seem to "obey" the laws of celestial mechanics or astrophysics, he would feel it his duty to offer or invite some possible conjectures - e.g. that it is not an ordinary body but a quasar or black hole, a plasma or laser beam, or some other physical thing. He may conjecture that this thing of a new kind "obeys" laws not yet discovered - but not that it violates well established physical principles such as that of conservation of energy. The parapsychologist does no such thing: he accepts apparently anomalous phenomena as evidence for paranormal abilities, and takes no steps to explain them in terms of laws.

Has anyone heard of the First Law of Clairvoyance, or the Second Law of Telepathy, or the Third Law of Psychokinesis? And has anyone ever produced a perpetual motion engine driven by the mind, or a mathematical theory of spooks capable of making definite testable predictions?

In conclusion parapsychology is a pseudoscience paragon.

Source: Understanding the World, Volume 2; Volume 6 Ecologist (talk) 15:06, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Chris French disagrees with you: http://www.videojug.com/interview/anomalistic-psychology-2 (at 0:40) Max (talk) 13:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The guy who wrote that was Mario Bunge a science philosopher, Bunge also thinks psychoanalysis is pseudoscience sorry but hes wrong. Parapsychology does use the scientific method so it is not a pseudoscience in that sense. What is pseudoscience is psi concepts such as psi forces, and precognition etc these things are metaphysical and not falsifiable and there is no scientific mechanism that could explain them. According to wikipedia R. A. McConnell wrote "psi phenomena are "non-physical" and thus show the existence of a non-physical realm in which the existence of a "God" becomes a possibility. A lovely idea but no scientist is going to take such a thing seriously. Parapsychology is in a world decline. It is a dieing breed, anomalistic psychology is rising (and even being taught in UK universities now whilst parapsychology funding is becoming obsolete and most parapsychologists are getting old age, there are no young parapsychologists in the field. 20 years time parapsychology will be an internet trend only, no university or scientist will take it seriously. The American and British SPR are both in decline. The rise of anomalistic psychology – and the fall of parapsychology? and Anomalistic psychology. This section is about to making contributions to the article, so should psi and pseudoscience be added to the article? Off topic becuase it is already mentioned here on this article parapsychology and countless of other websites. Forests (talk) 18:22, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Max, Chris French is an opponent of psi he is not your buddy. I suggest you read the following post by "Elevated":


 * "Peeps, the Standard Model of physics (recently the Higgs particle was detected in proof) can predict particle values to 10 or more decimal places, so there can be no new mystical fields or forces or cosmic mechanisms to discover. Everything is therefore contained within physical reality and there is no room for Psi.


 * The vacuum has the property that everything that is not forbidden by physical law does happen - so since the standard model is correct up to 100's of GeV, way beyond chemical phenomena of ~eV, there is nothing else to be detected. Sorry."
 * Source Ecologist (talk) 21:07, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "Chris French is an opponent of psi he is not your buddy."
 * He still disagrees with you. Max (talk) 04:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * What the Elavated user posted is interesting but it sounds like a fraud account. Note how a user on that forum is claiming I am Elevated (it is not me), secondly note how MU has recently turned up posting on that blog on the same day as Elavated. Could be the same person. I also find it odd how users on that blog (skeptiko users) are being friendly to MU when he was banned on the skeptiko forum and they seem unware that he has been posting sexual abuse to people on multiple other forums. He writes "The pseudoskeptical POV is prepared by extraordinarily ordinary and unexceptional hypocrites. Randi, Wiseman, French, Coyne, Myers...and their forum clones...are these people that you would swell you with pride to have rendezvous your daughters?" Freak!! Forests (talk) 05:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I believe you that you aren't "Elevated", but I don't think it is MU!! either. Both your and MU!!'s writing style is very different from Elevated's, in my opinion. And yes, the people over at Michael Prescott's blog seem to be unaware of MU!!'s past. Max (talk) 19:07, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Open Mind is MU
The user Open Mind from the skeptiko forum has a long history of sending people sexual abuse on the internet and trolling, he has been banned on the skeptiko forum under the username "MU!!" but Open Mind is clearly his main account and he is still active. Mention of this troll/pervert should be added to the article. Apparition (talk) 00:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The user Open Mind from the skeptiko forum is not MU . I am in agreement that Open Mind is a troll but he is not MU, he has a very different writing style and Open Mind claimed Helen Duncan's séance dolls were real spirits, if I can remember correctly MU actually accepted that Duncan was a fraud. "Open Mind" certainly does not have an open mind he claims every skeptic is a "pseudoskeptic", he evens calls believers in ESP and psychical researchers who are skeptical of mediumship "pseudoskeptics" such as Harry Price or Tony Cornell. He is the only person I have ever come across who claims absolutely and I mean absolutely every medium has never been caught in trickery. He is a serious fundamentalist and "Open mind" actually gives parapsychology a bad name as most parapsychologists and psychical researchers even accept physical mediumship is the result of fraud i.e. cheesecloth and muslin. He has not read the literature and admitted he only reads spiritualists publications. He has no interest in truth. I have no interest in debating true believer syndromes such as "Open mind" at the end of the day all he can do is write lies on the skeptiko forum, and the skeptiko forum doesn't exactly have a good reputation.


 * MU is Andrew B. Chung see here for the evidence the main give away was the statement "truth is simple" they signed both their posts with, they also refer to themselves in third person and say the same things. In a personal email to Chung he sent me death threats the same as MU did. They are both the same person. I have not seen any recent trolling from MU as he has been banned on every site he trolled and all the fake accounts he created of me, Eveshi and others have been deleted. All we can hope is the police caught up with him. The skeptiko forum has a very dodgy history and countless users have been banned. I have no time to update the article as I no longer am interested or post on this website, but thanks for your help in documenting MUs internet abuse. Forests (talk) 17:22, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I recently debated Open Mind on the Mind-Energy forum but was banned... Open Mind claimed I was you Forests! . This Open mind character has the same writing style as MU. They are both old dudes in their 60s. I think it *could* be the same guy or a friend of his, both are from the UK I have discovered. If not then Open Mind might be Robert McLuhan who is also from the UK. The references that Open Mind uses are the same as the ones that appear in the book by McLuhan. See my recent extermination of Michael E. Tymn's dishonest claims. Tymn is even more dishonest than Open Mind. Apparition (talk) 18:12, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Robert McLuhan is not Open Mind. Despite supporting spiritualism in his book McLuhan admitted on page 68 "Many mediums were blatant frauds, and some later boasted about their cleverness in print. So there's an abundance of information about how tricks could be carried out." Open Mind would never write such as thing as he thinks every medium who has ever existed has never cheated, not in a single post has he ever admitted a medium has cheated.... Never! Your recent conversation with him is just more evidence for that. You mentioned that J. B. Rhine caught Mina Crandon cheating and declared her a fraud. In response all Open Mind could say he was an "inexperienced investigator"! And regarding Tony Cornell he had no comments but wrote "Cornell was a die-hard skeptic of physical phenomena". This is what I mean... no matter what evidence against mediumship "Open Mind" will not accept it. Both Rhine and Cornell were believers in ESP but Open Mind still dismisses them. His dismisses all parapsychologists as "pseudoskeptics". Anything and anyone who finds trickery in mediumship and he will dismiss it. He has the most close mind that I have ever come across in the field of spiritualism. Open Mind could be MU as he seems to be stalking me across the internet. So Open Mind/MU/Andrew B. Chung if you are reading this perhaps you should read    by Joseph McCabe it debunks all the mediums you have claimed are genuine, have fun :) Forests (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The guy making stuff up is "Stevenson" on the forum.mind-energy.net, he previously trolled that forum with over 2,000 posts under the username OC68, he is a left-wing liberal conspiracy nut who also has a police record of internet stalking activities and harressment. He has been banned twice for stalking people and pasting libel in which caused him a temporary ban and got most of his posts deleted. If you check his posts on Stevenson he only joined the forum to stalk people and post nonsense about Wikipedia. Oddly his account is deleted and all of his posts are gone on OC68, but if you do a Google search you can still see his comments quoted from other people. He's a well known woo-believer who claims crop circles and cattle mutilations are evidence for alien activity in his posts. He has an obsession with stalking Wikipedia editors and making up lies and posting libel; for example he claims various skeptical editors on Wikipedia are secret proponents of pseudoscientific views such as ancient astronauts or philosophical idealism. Most likely the same guy behind these joke pages of Joshua Schroeder and this. You can see Stevenson post libel here about Wikipedia accounts . All of his information is deliberate lies. Best to ignore the troll. Mikemikev is cool (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


 * More information here about him from Shen1986 Mikemikev is cool (talk) 17:15, 13 November 2013 (UTC)