Talk:Branch Davidians

This is a joke article right? Cause the second paragraph at least is complete bullshit. 18:57, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * Well, last sentence of the last para. at least. 18:57, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * Second and third paragraphs both, I think. It needs a complete rewrite...but where to begin? Secret Squirrel 19:38, 6 January 2008 (EST)

I would begin with the tab that says "vaporize". Or, at least "edit" "ctrl-a" "delete". About the only thing worth saving here is that someone spelled Waco correctly. human  15:12, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * I less worsed it a bit; I'll be back to help some more. human  15:16, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Howzat? Is anyone keeping track of our points? All we need now are two or three pictures. Anyone upload a picture of an Uzi yet? A generic messiah? Reno, Nevada? human  16:28, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Dammit, Human!
Every time I go to fix your mistakes, you edit the page again, and I get in an edit conflict. Stop editing for a moment and let me copy-edit your writing! -- 16:29, 14 January 2008 (EST)


 * Aargh! You did it again!  This time with the talk page!  -- 16:29, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * haha, sorry! That's why I like sections... less chance of EC's. human  16:44, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * I will try to patiently await your constructive contributions. I wrote this all from ~15 year old memories, of course, so there are likely many minor and major errors. human  16:47, 14 January 2008 (EST)

"What the heck is a "loudhailer", Human? Do you mean megaphone" (RA)

I wrote loudhailer, schtub.

"A megaphone, speaking-trumpet, bullhorn or loud hailer is a portable, usually hand-held, funnel-shaped device..."

It's a much more euphonic word to use in such a tale, I think. human  17:58, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Humour
"'Bad movies saturated their cable stations.'" Does that mean they got the Hallmark Channel for free? -- 18:03, 14 January 2008 (EST)

mission
This article crosses very interesting aspects of our mission.

On the one hand, it's about crazy religionists and their trips.

On the other hand, it's about authoritarianism and it's assault on liberty.

Whose side are you on?

America has always played host to strange groups (I have the book, I forget the title, but it's good), and also fostered reactionary elements who disapprove of them. Heck, when I lived in Fulton, Missouri, for a couple years, I became aware of "The Farm" - pretty much a commune that I never visited. Isn't it strange that raw laissez faire capitalism accords an operative space for communist movements? Small c, not big C - not Marxist, or Maoist, but American - "we can live however we want!"

This could soon be a best of RW article, if we can collaborate and frickin' nail it.

That is my challenge, to you, my friends. human  18:57, 14 January 2008 (EST)


 * Waco was one of the rare times when the right-wing conspiracy nuts turned out to be right after all. The FBI and ATF were forced to retract most of their claims in 1999-2000, and the evidence made public in the late 90s is pretty clear that the fire was started by pyrotechnics launched into the compound by the BATF and that the government deployed Delta Force troops at Waco in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.  Article still needs a rewrite fur-sherr.  This doesn't detract from the fact that Koresh was a loony who claimed to be the messiah and his followers fit the definition of a cult to a T.  But we don't need to be continuing to defend the ATF/FBI coverup long after it was discredited and retracted; it frankly reflects poorly on RW and skeptical/rationalist thought in general, giving opponents reason to discredit it on other things.  (On a different issue I had this reaction myself reading Quackwatch and noticing they had material basically calling organic agriculture a fraud, claiming pesticides were harmless and citing material from anti-environmentalist sources, which initially made me question everything on that site.  If the skeptical/rationalist community has one big flaw it's the stubborn refusal to admit that the health quacks and conspiracy nuts are, on infrequent occation, right.  Waco was one of those times.) Secret Squirrel 19:16, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks. That is why this has potential to be such an awesome article - we see the aspects of our mission clashing in two directions, and our "enemies" on "our" side.  Waco was just plain crazy.  Oh, and I think it might need a better title.  Right now it's named after a city, as opposed to an event.  I might be wrong... And by the way, I never bought the FBI/ATF line - this was news as I learned it, not history and lies.  So whose side was I on?  Neither!!!  Both "sides" were wrong.  But, there is the point that busting a freak like Koresh for gun law violations should not have resulted in, what, 70-odd deaths? human  19:26, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks - a good name for the article might be "Branch Davidians"..."Waco" meant the Branch Davidian siege in the 90s but today, 15 years later it means the town to most people. I'll help with the article at some point but I'll have to go back through all the reference material I have, which I haven't looked at for years.  Secret Squirrel 19:45, 14 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think "Waco was just plain crazy" is a good enough title. oh, and do i remember about there being allegations of child abuse? did they ever turn out to be true? 15:02, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmmm, title OK, though "Branch Davidian disaster" might be more "sensible". With that quote as the lead line ;)  Allegations of everything unwholesome and unAmerican imaginable were made, after all, he had a harem of disaffected wives and girlfriends of the menfolk in town, so there was probably plenty of gossip to mine.  I doubt any were proven, since the alleged victims all got burnt up into crispy critters, right?  Or were some children let out before the conflagration? human  15:21, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

BATF apologists
There is no consensus for having this article in its current form, which is basically just a bunch of apologetics for those who continue to insist on defending the government's actions 10 years after even the FBI and BATF had to retract their own version of the events at Waco. No wonder people have a hard time taking the rational "movement" seriously. Secret Squirrel 23:21, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Whah, huh? Surely, you lie.  I wrote most of it (as I recall) and I was not apologizing for ATF/FBI.  Anything but.  Maybe you need to check your meds? Consensus, of what do you speak, silly skwirl?  ħ uman  23:58, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * "There is no consensus to keep this article in its current form". Oh, that is priceless.  Let's trash Secret Squirrel's userpage—there's no consensus to keep it the same!   00:43, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Um, see you there, don't leave me out alone on this!  ħ uman  00:46, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Uh, didn't he just ban himself for seven years, anyway? Doesn't that make this moot? Though, I suppose he can always unban himself...--Zelandoni 00:48, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Whatever do you mean, comrade? Leave no man behind!   00:50, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Most blocks on this site are irrelevant - 90% are of people who can unblock themselves, the other 10% are of vandals that troublemakers like me undo after a day or so.  ħ uman  01:24, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * That's good to learn. And only 28 minutes into the day. --Zelandoni 01:28, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * You learn something new every day!  01:32, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

I do say, I think this complements the balloons you added quite nicely, Human. 01:31, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Isn't that a bit "over the top"? I was gonna go add a swimming pool and some goat pilaf, I think I might have to rollback your improvement in order to do so!  ħ uman  01:35, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, it was kind of the point to make it difficult for Secret Squirrel to edit. Besides, all you have to do is tack   to the end of the article url and you can edit away!   01:39, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
 * True that, and I gambled on &action=history. Well, we just tolded him how to get back in ;)  Please to add more party fixtures?  ħ uman  01:47, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

What is this?
I don't know is this article is wrong or if Wikipedia is, but there are inconsistencies, and this article has no sources other than a biased one, apparently made by one of the parties involved. The group was not surprised by invaded at night, they knew well ahead of time about the plans (and so did the ATF know they knew, so much for stealthiness). Who fired the first shot was also completely unclear. Just because people crazy about guns and self defense aren't very smart doesn't mean we should blame them for everything. 24.85.161.72 (talk) 08:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Cultural Reference - Postal 2
Just a little note, wouldn't bother if you didn't mention the South Park episode, but final mission in Postal 2 (arguably final, the final day on which mission takes place is open ended so players can start with this one, but it's the furthest and usually left for the end) takes place in Uncle Dave's compound, surrounded by armed ATF agents with tanks, which escalates into full on battle (although everything in the game does). Quite cool if you ask me, obviously modeled after the above (half the place burning down is a good indicator) 90.205.124.176 (talk) 16:58, 20 March 2018 (UTC)