Forum:Controversial Pop Culture Opinions

What are your favorite movies, books, video games, or TV-Shows that everyone else seems to hate? What are your least favorite movies, books, video games, or TV-Shows that everyone else seems to like? Also, I'm not doing this to start a flame war. Please be civil.

I'll start the ball rolling with my opinions on Star Trek. My second favorite Star Trek series (after Next Gen), is Voyager. Overall, I can understand why fans might not like it, as it differs from the other series in many respects. However, I found the characters more interesting and engaging than the characters from any of the other series (besides Kes and Chakotay, the somewhat offensive portrayal of his character is another discussion). Neelix for example is the somewhat annoying comic relief character, but I always thought there was a somewhat tragic element to his back story. I consider his excessive optimism and exuberance to be a coping strategy he uses for the traumatic things he experienced in his life. On the other hand, I absolutely despised the last season of Deep Space 9, which seemed to forget that it was supposed to be a space opera and not a soap opera.

Also, I secretly love a lot of the stupid comedies that the Nostalgia Critic hates, like Good Burger for example. Samstr (talk) 00:28, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * On that note, Nostalgia Critic. I hate that guy with a passion for a reason I don't even know. The Arctic Vixen [Get foxy with me ♥] 01:42, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I used to be a heavy consumer of DC comic books. Mostly, I was a Wonder Woman fan.  I quit reading them in 2012, out of rage at the mistreatment of Wonder Woman and her world at the hands of a jackass named Brian Azzarello.  And I am nowhere near over it.
 * I used to be something of a metalhead, and of Scandinavian descent. But Scandinavia has been the ruin of heavy metal.  Stoner rock is metal done right.  - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 01:54, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I also strongly dislike the Nostalgia Critic. IMHO, the weird sketches in his reviews aren't funny, even bordering on being painful to watch. Samstr (talk) 02:34, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "But Scandinavia has been the ruin of heavy metal." [Screams internally] The Arctic Vixen [Get foxy with me ♥] 08:49, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Fraid so. I strongly prefer the heldentenors like Halford and Dio to the growling of black and death metal.  It's important for any kind of music to be musical. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 05:03, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No, good sir, I prefer the thing that you do not prefer, and therefore my opinion is objectively right. How dare you pop my bubble. The Arctic Vixen [Get foxy with me ♥] 09:44, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Smerdis. I'm not a huge fan of metal, but all of the metal that I actually like is older stuff, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest etc. (Now I'm afraid that this will turn into something like a Wikipedia talk page for an obscure metal band, flamewars and endless argument over what sub-genre a band belongs to.)Samstr (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I rather liked the Tim Owens-era Judas Priest (Jugulator, Demolition), which all the Judas Priest fans seem to hate... Rob Halford is an overrated vocalist, and I liked the more experimental style. Carpetsmoker (talk) 21:42, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "Crashes into the forum with a tank named Thor while wearing a horned top hat listening to tyr" WHO DARES CALL OUT THE NORDIC PAGAN LANDS AND THEIR METAL!?
 * '*see it Smerdis of Tlön*....Of course it has to be you...--Steampeng MK.1 (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Mmm, Týr... I like your style. They're an incredible concert, too. The Arctic Vixen [Get foxy with me ♥] 19:47, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't really do favourites and I don't really care about other people's favourites. So I suppose I'm not a big fan of favouritism while many other people are... Does that meet the criteria of your second question? Maybe I'm being too meta. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 01:58, 9 December 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * That's probably a healthy attitude to take. People can take these things too seriously. Samstr (talk) 02:32, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Saying you don't like favouritism, while seemingly sane, is hypocritical. Favouritism is highly ingrained in society and likely you as well.--Steampeng MK.1 (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Paradoxical maybe, but "hypocritical" sounds like you morally condemn my statement... That I likely have many stereotypes and cultural compulsions ingrained in me doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't feel intellectually and/or emotionally motivated to poop on them. That I live in a favouritistic society also doesn't necessitate that I've completely internalized that particular element of it. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 01:55, 18 December 42015 AQD (UTC)

I'm not the biggest South Park fan in the world, but their episode on agnosticism (which I personally ascribe to) was a lot of fun because it was something fresh. It also went a long way towards explaining my love for Dr Pepper. Their newest season is also excellent, even though—oh who am I kidding, because—a lot of sensitive souls probably have their little panties in a massive twist. It makes me laugh all the harder because they're so willing to make fun of peoples' real religious beliefs, so it's a good reminder to me that no one is immune to the fallibilities they so gleefully point out to their enemies. But above all of that, this latest season has just been really hilarious. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい ) 04:00, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I really hate Whiplash. Just speaking as someone who had an abusive Terrence Fletcher equivalent when I was much younger, to the point where I was humiliated in front of the whole school during a band performance and nearly ruined music for me for years... that's not how you teach music. It was good cinematography though. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 05:18, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * There are more than a few jazz musicians, prominent ones, who have expressed their disdain for that film. My own biggest pop-culture faux pas is enjoying Godfather III. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 18:29, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I really like The Lost World: Jurassic Park. I also think the original Star Wars film is a shallow and at best somewhat entertaining film. Everyone who disagrees is wrong. Also Dawn of the Planet of the Apes was the best movie last year and the new Godzilla was great. All these "Oscar-worthy" historical dramas (Lincoln, The Imitation Game, Bridge of Spies) are getting tiresome. Every single Pixar movie from the 2000's is better than Inside Out, even arguably Cars. Avengers: Age of Ultron was dumb. There. Done for now. TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 00:21, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I think Transformers 4 was a great movie. If you disagree you have absolutely no taste in film. Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt: hablale a este hijo de la verga!  Look! 00:44, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Come on, I forgot my HTML.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 00:59, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I think Mad Max Furry Fury Road is a truly bad film. I had to cleanse myself by re-watching the original trilogy.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 09:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Boo! 142.124.55.236 (talk) 22:18, 10 December 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Ahhh!! Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt: hablale a este hijo de la verga!  Look! 23:06, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * See what happens when we let people express opinions? I bet Kim Jong Un keeps mandates the daily worship of Fury Road.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 03:33, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah fuck. I can't believe you've done this.Petey Plane (talk) 21:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I enjoy Big Brother unironically. Vulpius (talk) 13:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * *gasp* 141.134.75.236 (talk) 18:18, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Along the same lines, Ink Master is one of about 3 shows i consistently watch on TV (Antiques Roadshow and Frontline are the other 2, yes i'm that guy). Just the idea of a reality show with real, lifetime lasting consequences fascinates me, and some of the tattoos are really cool looking.Petey Plane (talk) 21:11, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

A question
Across the internet I've heard various people complain about The Eagles (cracked, online forums, etc.). Are The Eagles now considered a bad band? I've always liked the clean style of Country-Rock that they used. I won't say that they are my favorite band of all time, but I definitely enjoy their music. I've also heard people complain about Gordon Lightfoot, whom I absolutely love. (I actually saw him in concert recently.) Is it just that people don't want to admit that they like anything that might be classified as Country, even if the label might be only partially accurate? Samstr (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The Eagles? As in, the band that wrote/sang "Hotel California?" Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt: hablale a este hijo de la verga!  Look! 18:35, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Lightfoot in his 1970s prime was awesome -- great singer, first-rate songwriter, crack musicians playing on well-produced records. The Eagles did some good stuff too. But they did it, like Lightfoot, 40 years ago. I do not understand nostalgia very well, and I do not get why people will pay dozens and sometimes hundreds of dollars to spend a couple of hours watching pop stars who haven't had any fresh material in decades performing songs that are approaching a half-century in age. So the Eagles are not a "bad band," but they are an incredibly irrelevant one that are coasting on a reputation that hit its "best-before date" during the Carter administration. There was a great blog post I read a couple years black blaming Boomer nostalgia for the completely-out-of-proportion way in which the music of the 60s and 70s still dominates much of the airwaves and the concert circuit, as that generation uses its wealth and market clout to revel in its youth, but damned if I can find it.
 * The Who -- well, the two of them who didn't die in drug-fuelled hazes -- are playing in my city next spring. In 1982, when I was just getting into music, they performed their "final" show, but were back on the road a few years later and are still touring. In other words, The Who have been performing almost twice as long post-"final show" than they did in their career leading up to their "final show." And all that without a decent release since "Eminence Front" hit the charts in 1981. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 19:15, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Never heard of them, so I wouldn't know. Though on a topic of a similar vein, I dunno why so many people say Nickelback sucks so immensely much. Not that I'm a dedicated fan, but I like some of their songs. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 19:33, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The Eagles were good. Lightfoot was good. A few Nickelback songs are good. Fleetwood Mac, America, ELP, and Yes were good.Civic Cat sig 2.PNG Talk to Civic Cat   21:32, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * There are two ways of looking at this.
 * Purely subjectively - Eric Clapton presses my buttons and so, as far as I am concerned, he's go(o)d.
 * Objectively - Eric Clapton has sold plenty of albums and concert tickets and so, measured purely on commercial success, he presses a lot of people's buttons so he's good.
 * Of course, this all breaks down with non commercial forms of music like jazz. And, for heaven's sake, don't get any two metal fans discussing who's the best guitarist. Doxys Midnight Runner (talk) 21:50, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it's that the Eagle's music is objectively terrible, rather they kind of represent everything (but mainly Boomers) that emerging genres from the mid-70s (punk, rap, electronica, heavy metal) rebelled against, aka easy listening country rock for middle-class white people. The Eagles make unchallenging, inoffensive music. Nickleback is the same way. They are kind of the Thomas Kincaid painting of music. Not objectively bad, but soulless and produced for the broadest audience possible. It's perceived as art without passion (which isn't actually art). It's also just cool to hate something your parents like, regardless of its actual quality, which drives a lot of the hate. Petey Plane (talk) 19:28, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I dunno bout the eagles, but with reference to the comments about the who, and this goes doubly for the rolling stones, I find it bizarre that they can still play to packed out crowds singing songs about youthful rebellion while being multi millionaire pensioners and demanding my weekly wage for tickets. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:19, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Because Boomers are willing to pay them for it, so why stop? And, at the end of the day, playing music live is fun, even if you've been playing the same thing for 50 years, and there are much worse ways to make a few million in a year.Petey Plane (talk) 22:56, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Not Pop Culture but...
I love Gnome 3, I think it is a fantastic desktop for mouse driven systems. To me the corners idea is sheer genius. Samstr (talk) 15:30, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Dr who is fucking awful
Dr who, russel Davies era and beyond, is fucking awful. Woefully stilted dialogue, it takes its self far too seriously, its too knowing, too preachy about about the ethical implications of completely unreal and made up situations, the main character is a smug self righteous prick imbued with much too heavy handed existential angst, his companions are irritating imbeciles all of whom I wish a slow and painful death. R Davies is a shit writer who cannot do dialogue and his charactisations are all shit, and Stephen Moffatt is an even worse hack writer. All this is compounded by by the blindly loyal cult like 'fans' who are laboring under the misconception that their shitty TV show is event television enabled by cynical media pretending that the shallow gloss of this polished turd is somehow cool and relevant and not just escapism for people with no friends at school. If you disagree, its because you are blinded by your whoovian nerdgasm you need to need to get laid. An impossibility, I know. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * and don't get me started on river song. Just fucking awful. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Your problem is that you see a family sci-fi adventure serial and go "This shouldn't be escapist" ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 21:31, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * There's good escapism, which is taking a break from your life to watch a fun, intelligent, exciting tv show. And there's bad escapism, which is devoting your entire life to learning the backstories of all the obscure aliens and obsessively calculating the fates of every single assistant and formulating incredibly elaborate fan theories, with charts and tables and diagrams, until you lose your job and are forced to sleep under a bridge. Sadly Dr Who is aimed at the latter kind of escapist, not the kind who wants to watch good television. Annquin (talk) 16:45, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Riiiiiiiiiiight. I think you're confusing fan-base behavior with writing.  Because I've done none of those things, and instead I just watch silly british space man go on silly adventures.  ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:26, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I liked the Davies era (Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant). After that Moffatt took over, and it started to get more serious, and meh. I stopped watching a few years ago. I don't quite understand why you can say that it "takes its self far too seriously", because that certainly wasn't the case in the Davies era? Carpetsmoker (talk) 21:37, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Tom Baker's first three years pisses over the lot of them. Bicycle  wheel Toxic mowse.gif 21:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Doxys Midnight Runner (talk) 21:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I was hurt once before, by the star wars prequel. Just as I was ready to love again, Dr who ripped out my heart. Fuck you Dr who. AMassiveGay (talk) 22:04, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank the FSM I watched a trailer about this crap first, so that I don't waste my time with it and also scroll over some dumbfucks cluttering the WMG pages on TV Tropes with this fucking goddamn annoying "what if character X or Y would be a Time Lord".--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 07:23, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't get what the whole hype is with these shows like The Mindy Project or Jane the Virgin. Or the whole obsession with Netflix. Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt Mierda, shit, mierda, shit, mierda, shit...  Look! 20:12, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Supergirl is awesome so far
The tone is perfect for a superhero show, and this is something that hasn't really been done right since maybe the first season of Lois and Clark, or maybe even the first season of Wonder Woman. Melissa Benoist is excellent as Supergirl. And the real standout, surprisingly enough, is Calista Flockhart's performance as Cat Grant, who has been turned into a genuinely complex and interesting character. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 03:32, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I love podcasts a lot....
....listen to them all the time. But I don't much care for Serial or This American Life. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 07:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh yes indeed. I am an avid consumer of BBC radio podcasts on various subjects. It makes my chosen life on a little Asian island much more manageable :) .--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 07:42, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Little Asian island? Taiwan?--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 07:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Taiwan is hardly little! So, no. :) --TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 08:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed on This American Life, I had parents who felt the need to assault my ears with NPR (which for some reason they insisted on TURNING UP SO FUCKING LOUD IT ECHOED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE FUCKING HOUSE) my whole childhood (e.g. the news reports were hardly news by the 5th time, no exaggeration, they blared over the radio). Metaphorically speaking, I'd rather crush my nuts with a ball peen hammer than sit through Ira Glass. Urgh. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい ) 03:43, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

The Norm McDonald Show and Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling (i'm kind of a smark) are the only 2 podcasts i consistently listen to. I do love NPR, but Ira Glass's shtick wore thin on me a while ago. I find it all a little too "precious", although once in a blue moon, there will be a good story.Petey Plane (talk) 23:05, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * As a kid I was forced to listen to Joan Sebastian and they're responsible for my love of ska and urban rock. Good memories, although the radio was fucking loud. Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt Mierda, shit, mierda, shit, mierda, shit...  Look! 00:47, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

David Lynch's Dune
I like it. Carpetsmoker (talk) 11:52, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * so you are THE fan :) --TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 12:04, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Nah, there are more of us. We have a secret handshake and everything! Carpetsmoker (talk) 12:07, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you read the book(s). It's still not a good movie, but i think having an understanding of the novel is necessary to finding any enjoyment at all in the movie.  Also, Lynch and his production designers got the aesthetics of the Dune universe more or less right, much more so that any subsequent renditions, which look like they tried to be much more "true" to the source, but got the atmosphere completely wrong.  The design of the Guild Navigators is a good example.  The fishmen of the TV miniseries are technically more accurate to their descriptions in the books, but the deformed-fetus-in-a-jar looking Navigator and his on-the-way-to-an-S&M-party Ixian retinue from the film is much closer to what i imagine when i read (and re-read) the original series, given the book's overall atmosphere. The books by Jr. and Anderson are mostly garbage though.Petey Plane (talk) 17:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Compared to the books of his dad, they're toilet paper, but when looked at as an separate book series, they're more or less OK. Not stellar, but also not bad.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 17:06, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I never said it was a "good" movie. Citizen Kane is supposed to be a "good" movie by all sorts of standards, and I thought it was boring as hell. I like the visuals, I like the atmosphere, I like the acting, I like the *flavour* that the movie brings. It is difficult to describe. I haven't seen the film without having read the books, but I can understand that someone who hasn't read the books would find it a bit difficult to follow. for me, that doesn't really matter; I still like it. Carpetsmoker (talk) 19:32, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Any of you seen , the documentary about a failed attempt to make a Dune movie about ten years before Lynch's version? Although Jodorowsky's film never went into production, his storyboards & character/set design sketches (which he sent to loads of studios) supposedly had a big unacknowledged influence on the aesthetic of Star Wars, Alien & other sci-fi movies made in the next few years. I haven't had a chance to see the documentary yet myself but it looks interesting. 19:13, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Worth watching if you like Dune and/or Jodorowsky's work. I'm not so sure about the "big unacknowledged influence"-claim, though. Lots of that seems more like coincidence to me. Carpetsmoker (talk) 19:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that Geiger's work on Jodorowsky's Dune was the main reason he was hired for production design on Alien, which has been hugely influential on modern film. Petey Plane (talk) 19:32, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure, and Dan O'Bannon later did the story for Alien which probably wouldn't have happened if not for Dune (then again, it's all a what-if game), but they went much further than that like the opening scene from Contact (the zoom-out of Earth) being based on the storyboard of Jodorowsky's Dune. I thought that was a spurious link at best... Carpetsmoker (talk) 19:36, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that sounds silly. Haven't seen it, but i feel like the whole thing would be an unsatisfying tease.  I like Jodorowky, but i don't think he'd ever be able to make a good Dune movie, regardless of time or budget.  I think a Game of Thrones style series (5 seasons for each book) from someone with a better grasp of novels' tone (rather than the awful, technicolor sci-fi channel attempt) is the only way to make them work on screen. Petey Plane (talk) 19:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * If you ask me it's worth watching for Jodorowky's character/performance, if nothing else. Whether it would have been a good movie, I don't know ... I strongly dislike the Game of Thrones TV series, by the way (more controversy!) to be fair, I only saw the first season.... Carpetsmoker (talk) 20:07, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I actually haven't seen any' GoT (talk about truly controversial. I'm big sci-fi novel fan, but can never get into fantasy novels or media). Rather I meant that Dune could really only be done with a M rated, big budget multi season series.Petey Plane (talk) 20:49, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * There was one, and only one, benefit to David Lynch's Dune. And that was Sting in the blue speedo. For a really fine version of Dune, see the 2000 miniseries done by the SciFi channel (when it was still spelled that way).---Mona- (talk) 20:57, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "For a really fine version of Dune, see the 2000 miniseries done by the SciFi channel" The most controversial thing in this thread so far.Petey Plane (talk) 21:03, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I have those on DVD, but I could never bear to finish watching the first one. It was terrible! Carpetsmoker (talk) 22:24, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

OK, Game of Thrones (Spoilers!)
I'm another hater. I made it halfway through the third season when I realized that I was watching it due to a grim sense of duty, to be able to stay current with it, without enjoying it at all. I recognized that it was well-made fantasy, but not the sort that interested me. A vast series where you aren't allowed to become attached to any of the characters will eventually run out of characters that interest me. I decided I didn't need to feed my head with that kind of ugliness.

By contrast, I am enjoying Outlander. It is less clever fantasy, with cliché neo-pagan fantasy tropes (something GRRM does a bit better) and a picturesquely fake vision of kilts and tartan Scotland. But it works just as well as a sprawling saga of intrigue. And its roots are in the romance genre. Which is a big plus after GoT. With romance, you know that however much the lead characters are discomfited, they'll still be around. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 04:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Eh, some of the characters last longer than others. ***Meta Spoiler ahead***  It's a song of ICE and FIRE.  So you need one of each of those guys to survive.  That's (John or Bran) and (Melisandre or Dany). CorruptUser (talk) 04:29, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Jon could count as both Ice and Fire, actually. (Oops, did I just spoil a major plot point?) 141.134.75.236 (talk) 00:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Can we talk about book spoilers here? Carpetsmoker (talk) 00:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure. Though with the current progression of the TV series there's not much left that'd qualify as such. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 01:49, 23 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I read the books, which I enjoyed. The series, not so much (I only saw the first season). Perhaps because it doesn't really add anything to the books... I felt that the entire first season (which corresponds to the first book) was rushed through in fast-forward. They should have made more changes... Carpetsmoker (talk) 00:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The changes come in the later seasons. Like Ramsay marrying real-Sansa instead of fake-Arya. And only forcing the former to have sex with him instead of letting his dogs rape the latter. Also, Jon goes to Hardhome. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 00:24, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * On balance I enjoy both the books & TV series but find them very frustrating because they're so good in places & so inane in others. Also, after the first couple of books/series it starts to feel like a cross between a soap opera & a tabletop wargame: dozens of characters moving about in different places, some getting discarded, others brought out of the background into the foreground, lots of intrigues & a few surprises but not much of an overall story.   00:38, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's sort of the impression I got from what I watched of the TV series. The necessary abridgements needed to fit the storyline into hourly episodes and series may make it easier to follow. I read the first two books during the second series when I was still interested.  Given the relatively smaller cast and sharper focus of the TV series, killing or mutilating main characters may be more startling in that medium.  - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 03:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * My first encounter with GoT was working a day as a Wildling extra for the Season 2 finale (filmed in a greenscreen studio in London). Then I watched the first two seasons, then started reading the books.  I like the first book/season as a lot, as Ned Stark's story arc plays out a bit like a classical tragedy, as in some ways does Daenarys' story, & there were enough other loose ends to keep me interested.  In the next couple of books I initially liked that GRRM was adding more layers & bringing in more characters, but then he killed off a bunch of (what I still thought of as) the main characters & started focusing on characters I really don't care about.  I'm also exasperated by his penchant for apparently killing off characters then having them turn up again in the next book.  Plus the later books have a lot of fairly tedious chapters that just plod along with a set of characters on a journey somewhere with very little happening.   22:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Like the ill-tempered little meustelid above, I gave up on GoT when the interesting characters were killed in favour of people I couldn't be arsed watching develop because they'd get killed too. I thought "Do I care about these new people? No, not really." Bicycle  wheel Toxic mowse.gif 18:38, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't have this problem since I only really started watching it after the first couple seasons were already in the past. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 22:41, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Video game opinions
Grim Fandango and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri are overrated. Rare has never made a game that isn't unforgivably glitchy and/or badly designed. Vulpius (talk) 13:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Daikatana is the best game ever and whoever disagrees with me is John Romero's bitch. Carpetsmoker (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Tetris, 1990 on a Game Boy. That's my idea of a great video game. --TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 15:32, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not controversial. Opposite of controversial.  One of the best selling games of all time with a pure, simple design leading to huge potential complexity is about as agreeable as they come.  My more controversial opinion: video games haven't gotten dumbed down, instead the default difficulty level of increasingly complex games has become better attuned to casual play, and tutorials are integrated.  ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 15:41, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that they aren't dumbed down, and most new games are significantly more complex than anything from the 80s and 90s. They are much easier for casual players though, even "hard" games like the Demon Souls series, because console games of the past where so limited in content (because of memory tech of the time), that making them really hard (ie Ninja Gaiden or Gouls and Ghosts) was the only way to increase play time.Petey Plane (talk) 17:05, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's totally not controversial. I love to play this on my phone using an emulator.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 15:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry not sorry, but SimCity Creator and Ace Combat Infinity are some of the best games I've ever played. Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt Mierda, shit, mierda, shit, mierda, shit...  Look! 19:46, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, given the topic of this forum, I have to say I really really really hate the phrase "sorry not sorry". 141.134.75.236 (talk) 01:50, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I lose all respect for anyone who engages in the Console Vs. PC argument. They serve different purposes and are built to meet different needs. It's like arguing whether a pick-up truck or a convertable are better cars. The whole thing boils down to pissing over who has fun correctly.Petey Plane (talk) 19:54, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * HAIL TO THE GLORIOUS !!!!!!!!!!1111--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 19:57, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * PlayStation Master Race! Ɀexcoiler Кingbolt Mierda, shit, mierda, shit, mierda, shit...  Look! 19:58, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not to say you can't compare models within their types. Like the way the PS4 is better in every way than the xbone, and Nvidia's GPUs are better than AMD's.  Also, a real gamer has a gaming PC and a console.Petey Plane (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

As much as mobile games are maligned in the gaming community, particularly King games since the Saga lawsuits... I really like Alphabetty Saga. I can't help it -- I grew up playing Scrabble, TextTwist, Bookworm, and the like. I'm still proud of that one time I managed to string "AMORTIZI*G" on two crowns, a gold, and a vertical flush. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

OI! Vulpius! I'm watching you ya smug bastart! (–А–)

Anyway Hmm...Well I was interested in Xcom the Bureau for a bit.--Steampeng MK.1 (talk) 22:29, 17 December 2015 (UTC)


 * You don't like Alpha Centauri? DEATH BY RAPE-WORMS!  Because that was a part of the game.
 * I liked it, but the AI needed a LOT of work. Civ IV was still the best of the series. CorruptUser (talk) 00:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Age of Empires kicks Civilization's ass. There's an opinion for you.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 01:57, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I think that graphics have been as good as they need to be since the source engine (or earlier). The constant push for more advanced graphics and the more expensive hardware that comes with it just annoys me. Samstr (talk) 01:05, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * 3D graphics suck. 2D graphics have always been better. Carpetsmoker (talk) 01:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Give me 1D graphics! - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 20:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Smerdis...Why is it that we can't agree on jackshit -_-....--Steampeng MK.1 (talk) 05:12, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Office Space
It gets a lot of love, I honestly cannot understand why, because for me it's just a complete wastes of screen time. Unfunny, tedious, moronic and boring. One of the few films I have simply given away because I no longer want it to reduce the average quality of media I own. Worm (talk) 09:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I like westerns
Is that controversial? At any rate, it's not the most fashionable, progressive or politically correct of genres. My all time favourite is probably Once Upon a Time in the West but I enjoy a lot of different westerns from different eras & sub-genres. 13:36, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have thought it controversial considering Tarantino's last couple of flicks have been westerns. They seem to reappear as popular every few years. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:49, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Westerns are more a specific setpiece, plot and timezone combo. like Gangster movies, or Noir. They are only as bad as they are made.Keter (talk) 13:56, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Both fair points I guess. 14:31, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * You rang? ℕoir LeSable (talk) 16:42, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you from the US? Maybe outside the US it may be more controversial.Petey Plane (talk) 16:56, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It's no more "controversial" than anything else on this page. 21:11, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I have a great fondness for Italian sword and sandal pix from the early 1960s. That stuff gets seriously kinky at timess.  So part of that rubs off on spaghetti Westerns and giallos, because a lot of the makers are the same. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 18:10, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The best spaghetti westerns (especially Sergio Leone's & Sergio Corbucci's) are amazing. I can get along with some of the ho-hum ones too but then there are some are pretty much unwatchable. I haven't really seen enough of peplums or giallos to comment on those. 21:11, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Not controversial. Great movies are great movies, regardless of genre. Truly great Westerns? Once Upon a Time in the West, The Outlaw Josey Wells, McCabe and Mrs Miller.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 06:00, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I would add quite a few to that list including (off the top of my head) High Noon, Rio Bravo, the Magnificent Seven, Shane, Ride the High Country, the Fistful of Dollars trilogy, Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid, the Wild Bunch, Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid, True Grit (both versions), Open Range, and the Assassination of Jesse James. 11:49, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * With two new Westerns in theatres out very recently (Revenant and Hateful Eight) it would appear that the genre is hardly spent. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 02:11, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "outlaw Josey Wales"
 * You do realize that the movie was literally KKK propaganda, right? CorruptUser (talk) 02:17, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's literally an exaggeration. The novel was written by a KKK leader & segregationist rabblerouser. The makers of the movie were unaware of this. It does have a Lost Cause of the South theme, as do quite a few revisionist westerns, but I don't recall much racial content in the film apart from the usual stuff about hostile Indians & friendly Indians which is par for the course in a lot of westerns. 18:57, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Everything since about 1998 is shite
Bring back Trip Hop. Bicycle wheel  18:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * You want Amon Tobin, Kid Koala, Thievery Corps, or Future london? I know them all. :)--Steampeng MK.1 (talk) 05:12, 25 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Amen to that. Specifically, Bristol trip-hop.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 05:51, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Here you go. CorruptUser (talk) 06:23, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I used to think that music was all downhill since Papa Bach died. But really, it's all been downhill since Pope Gregory. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 02:13, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

My opinions are...
...that anything that isn't Spongebob, Sonic or Rock music is shit, although George Carlin was EPIC. Definitely my favorite comedian, I like Spongebob more than any other show, although the Walking With series, David Attenborough shows and the Simpsons are good in their own rights. I used to like Bill Cosby, I like his material, but after the rape allegations, I've stopped liking him. I think football is shit, soccer is boring and basketball is the ultimate sport of all time. My favorite music bands are ACDC, Anti-Flag, and Bad Religion. Come on, who can't forget Highway to Hell?--Palaeonictis (talk) 03:59, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * College basketball is the ultimate sport of all time. Pro basketball is a silly parody of the game. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 04:16, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Which Walking with series is the best then? I think Beasts is better than Dinosaurs.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 23:31, 7 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Spongebob... Seriously, Spongebob?? O.o 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:36, 7 January 42016 AQD (UTC)
 * Eh, the first few seasons are actually pretty good. Clever writing, creative storytelling, imaginative setting.  Then they just said "f it" and went to formulaic plots. CorruptUser (talk) 00:01, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Regarding Metal
I'm a metalhead, hell, I have a metal college radio show, but there are some subgenres that just sound like, as my ex put it, "oger porn". Like, it's rare, and most subgenres I like at least some of the time (stuff way heavier than most people like, too, including stuff like funeral doom and SDBM), but there is a point where you're moving away from metal and towards trying to make Noise music with instruments and your voice. And sure, you do you, keep making it, fans can do what they want, but I will never enjoy it. Also, industrial metal kicks ass and I will fight anyone that disagrees. --PosthumanHeresy (talk) 03:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * While I am many years out of college, in those days I was a metalhead. I generally like metal from the days before it was raped by Vikings; despite being Scandinavian myself, Scandinavia was the worst thing to happen to metal.  Nowadays, stoner and desert rock sounds to me like metal done right. - Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 16:44, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * you both have awful taste in music and should be very ashamed of yourselves AMassiveGay (talk) 14:56, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Mayhem has its moments, though black metal in general is something only a few bands manage to pull off. Not quite sure why it's "kvlt" to make your album sound like it was recorded through a walkie-talkie into an answering machine microphone onto an 8 track player, or why none of them seem to be able to sing about something besides anti-Christianity (it's not that the message is necessarily wrong, it's that it's not any different the 30th time they say it), that's why I find Rush so engaging. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい ) 23:10, 29 January 2016 (UTC)