Talk:Parachute argument

This is awful. It belongs in essay space, or a dumpster. 23:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say essay first. 23:11, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * it was on the silver nominated "ray" page. that was a scary page. --[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   No, That's not the same thing.  You just don't get it". 23:59, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * If you send it to essay then you limit the number of people who can work on it same goes for user space. If it's not up to mainspace but could be improved then (the still ill-named) "fun"would be the appropriate place.--BobSpring is sprung! 07:35, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It needs an article. Just not this disasterpiece.-- 08:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Would anyone mind if I just rewrote it in toto? I don't want to step on any toes if someone sees some good stuff in here.-- 08:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

This is what I wrote a few weeks ago the first time I heard Ray Comfort's parachute argument. I posted it on Facebook. I would propose a replacement of the article with an edited and gussied-up version of this; first his version, quoted from his book, and then something like this:

There's a plane, going from America to Australia. Right at about the two-hour mark, a passenger named Joshua jumps out of his seat and starts shouting, "The plane is going down! It's on fire! We're all going to die! Grab your parachutes!"

Another passenger, Carl, is panicked by the shouting. Can this be true? He has some experience with planes, so he pushes past the shrieking Joshua and sprints up to the front of the plane. The instruments all seem fine. Wings are level, altitude is steady, fuel is barely diminished. There's not a glimmer from the fire warning lights. As far as Carl can see, the plane isn't in trouble at all.

Back at the mid-section, Joshua has got a bunch of people all up out of their seats, strapped into their parachutes, and all lined up in front of the emergency exit. The plan is to kick it open, and then everyone can jump out, one at a time. "It's the only way, people!" Joshua shouts. It's very important you shout certain words as you jump out, he adds. The parachute doesn't work otherwise.

BANG! Joshua kicks the door open, and people start jumping out.

"What are you doing??" Carl asks, running back to confront him. Heedless, people keep jumping. "I went back and checked the instruments! The plane isn't on fire!"

"It's fine if that's what you want to think - go ahead and die!" screams Joshua. "Let me do what I want! Go sit down and be quiet!"

So here's the question, folks: if you were Carl, when would you speak up and argue against him? Would you wait until Joshua had convinced a dozen more people to strap on their parachutes and waste their lives? Or until he'd started pitching out their children? Or your children?

The plane's not on fire. Tell the passengers. It's never a good idea to let someone intimidate you into letting them spread a dangerous untruth.-- 08:46, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep; I'm very busy with other aspects of Ray Comfort but I'll work on it when I get time if needed. Proxima Centauri (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to say, there's no reason NOT to keep crappy articles, cause if we got rid of all the crappy ones, we'd be down to like 10 articles (j/k). I think PC and AD have a point.  Keep it here, like other stubs or bad articles, rate it as such, limit the links (which i personally think is a good policy for all stubs and bad articles), and when someone edits it, then do more to highlight the article. (PS sorry about the spelling.  I changed to Fire fox, and it's not spell checking for me... not sure how to fix that)[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   No, That's not the same thing.  You just don't get it". 13:50, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Should we have a brown brainstar, for floating turds that might eventually evolve into something more palatable?  18:03, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Might be difficult to find a good color. Brown wouldn't work because the bronze one is already brown. 18:04, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * We do have an actual "turd" image somewhere... That said, i'd be horrified if an article i was a primary editor on was given a "bad" rating. maybe the best is to just leave it as a copper brain.  I still am not sure what the non-specified standards of brains should even be.  ;-)  half the time i see silvers i think are crap, coppers i think are really good.  only consistent thing is the Golds.[[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   No, That's not the same thing.  You just don't get it". 18:52, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Wasn't 100% serious about the brainstar. There are already a bunch of "must try harder" categories, which are largely ignored.   19:26, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Does this really need a whole article?
It's just a crappy argument by analogy that in no way applies to religion (outside of Ray Comfort's "mind"). Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I do think that PC has a point that comfort is one of the more quoted idiots around. So it's probably worth keeping around.  It might be better in a shorter argument, as this one is long winded for my taste.  [[Image:Pink mowse.png|25px]]Godot   No, That's not the same thing.  You just don't get it". 19:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, but this could easily be boiled down to about a paragraph. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 20:04, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It should be a paragraph in the article about Ray Comfort's arguments & responses to them, if that ever turns into anything worthwhile (currently this).  20:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I started reading this but I gradually lost the will to keep...  ..... --BobSpring is sprung! 21:12, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think this section in the Ray Comfort article, as it is now, says all that needs to be said about this: viz that it's a trite analogy which basically presents a rehash of Pascal's Wager. Any intelligent skeptic can get that straight away; we don't need to be told it slowly & laboriously through a series of equally tiresome & patronising analogies.  Still say this should be deleted.   22:18, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Gone. 21:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)