RationalWiki talk:What is going on with the coronavirus?/Archive1

Icon for WIGO: Coronavirus
Anyone want to make a good .svg for this? There are some vectors online already for ideas, but it'll be neat if someone can create one themselves. 22:51, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I threw something together quickly, File:Covid-19 Icon.svg, so we could make the WIGO stand out. Nothing too creative, but it communicates the point. If someone comes up with something better, by all means save over that one and replace it.--NavigatorBR(Talk) - 00:59, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hm I thought those icons in the site were nice, though I don't want anyone dropping money for something. I'm kinda rusty on Illustrator, but I know how to use it. It's just I can't really use Inkscape, lol. 01:14, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

So what do up votes and down votes mean here?
On WIGO World, you're meant to up vote something if you think it's relevant to RationalWiki's mission and down vote it if you think it isn't. But here, can we just say that you up vote good news and dwn vote bad news? Spud (talk) 15:35, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't think upvotes and downvotes are needed at all here. Vote where your heart guides you. Minish (talk) 17:11, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Obviously it's how viral the content is. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:26, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Clogs?
an entry was moved to clogs, despite being coronavirus related. But at the top of the page it specifically says 2lies, propaganda, mass hysteria and government incompetence." What's the boundary? Avida Dollarsher again 10:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, conspiracy theories fits clogs better than covid-19.Tuxer (talk) 11:40, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * i just thought this page was set up to avoid coronavirus stories cluttering up the others, in the same way as the elections one was. Avida Dollarsher again 11:45, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * true but that doesn't mean that all coronavirus related stories go here. We had a few editorials and opinions go to blogs and coronavirus-related economics go to world. It depends on context. Most covid-19 stories though go here as they don't fit anywhere else.Tuxer (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

"Americans" bought the masks out from under the French?
Someone posted up an article about an order of masks being overbid by we jolly overbearing Americans even as it was to be imminently delivered to aloof French persons. Just wanted some amplifying information: was this order placed by the French Government and swindled out by their Federal American counterparts, or was this an incident of lesser players to whom national origin is easily ascribed and written off? (Not that it matters a whole lot when you need a mask, just found the article vague and possibly incendiary) Artificius (talk) 13:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's either a shell company for the US government or a pretender to be working for the US government, at least according to the Guardian article on the same matter. Seems the issue goes beyond the French if I understand the article correctly. The Crow (talk) 17:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * it does go beyond the French. its not just America vs the rest of the world in a bid for much needed supplies, but state vs state vs their own federal government. capitalism at its best. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:35, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Charities question
At least one medical fetish company (everybody is entitled to their own peculiar tastes) has donated 'relevant stuff' to a hospital.

What have 'relevant charities' been doing to help? (ie those which concentrate on people and their pets etc) Anna Livia (talk) 17:29, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

David Icke
His presentation on YouTube since removed by 'the authorities' worth a mention? Anna Livia (talk) 17:23, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. I added a link to the BBC article about this issue. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Cosmikdebris (talk) 18:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Is the 'diseases in the soil stirred up by digging deep foundations' theory someone I know posited (not necessarily CV) more plausible than '5G causes diseases'? Anna Livia (talk) 19:51, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There are diseases that can live in soil -- usually bacteria, fungus, or parasite related -- of which a few can be serious if you inhale particulate or get them into your system. A common example here would be tetanus (from clostridium tetani bacteria), it is per the other Wiki distributed in soil throughout the world. So "more plausible" perhaps. From what I'm reading, viruses that can survive in soil are rare (though there are a few that can), so what was posted might still be bullshit depending on how unhinged the rant was. :) 72.184.174.199 (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The initial discussion was of the '5G transmissions and CV - implausible; "disease causers" (as a useful generic term) from deep in the soil disturbed by digging, plausible' (so a reasonable discussion) - and the same might apply to other contexts not normally accessible to humans (extreme cavers etc).
 * In the UK there is an awareness of 'Anthrax Island' (though not comparing like to like) which can influence discussions. Anna Livia (talk) 23:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * His spectacularly unhinged video (at least I assume it's the same one) is still on his web site. Cantabrigian (talk) 08:26, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Now Ofcom has got involved - and  are reliable sources and  seems reasonable: there is plenty of other coverage. Anna Livia (talk) 19:35, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * An analysis by Bloomberg says that the 5G/Virus conspiracy theory is being boosted by a "coordinated disinformation campaign". --Cosmikdebris (talk) 20:22, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Would this be relevant? Anna Livia (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Comparison question
Would it be possible to have comparisons of '2019 death rates (ie approximately average rates) and 2020 rates (standard rates plus coronavirus rates) - it may help people visualise what the impact of the disease is. Anna Livia (talk) 16:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Captain Tom Moore
Could some mention be made of this gentleman - who deserves whatever medal he gets. Anna Livia (talk) 11:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Added something. The Crow (talk) 18:16, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Some £9 million now.
 * Some at least will be people's 'usual Easter/Passover/other festivity etc donations, but it is rather spectacular by any account. Anna Livia (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Over £12.3 million according to his Wikipedia page.
 * One of the few times when 'do try this/equivalents at home and/or similar creative/constructive activities' applies. Anna Livia (talk) 10:35, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Could the figure be updated - as it has increased 'slightly' since my last posting. Anna Livia (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Job protests
As the US pro-job-despite-coronavirus protests were on BritNews should they be mentioned here? Anna Livia (talk) 10:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes though it fits clogs more IMO. But "pro-job" protests? More like pro- force poor people to work amidst a pandemic for my personal gain.Tuxer (talk) 12:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the "protesters" are primarily business-owners anyways. — Oxyaena Harass  15:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That's too narrow. It's apparently a mixture of conservatives, people who got paid to show up, far right recruitment groups and a group with a connection to Betsy DeVos. Somewhat unrelated: One thing that does concern me is how some parts of the Left are trying to fold these often bigoted people into the mold of the Left without doing anything about said bigotry. I've been seeing more of an outcry at least online over that. It's not 100% related to this section though, but still worth bringing up since the protests are where they're in part being drawn from recently. The Crow (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * From what I know it's even narrower than "conservatives", it's mainly alt-right (eg Proud Boys) and uber-MAGA-tards, often funded by the usual dumb big business outlets (Koch etc.). Most Americans, *even* conservatives, support the lockdown. Most Americans will actually self-quarantine to some extent *even* if restrictions are lifted. Small wonder these days -- listening to the so called "fair and balanced" idiots downplaying the virus these days can kill you. Soundwave106 (talk) 16:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There was a short clip.
 * Could there be a RW page - 'WIGO-not coronavirus? Anna Livia (talk) 18:48, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Krebs on Security did a pretty interesting analysis behind a flood of "reopen*" domains. There seems to be some major astroturfing going on. In addition to the usual suspects like Koch there seems to be opportunists like the Dorr Brothers involved. (The Dorr Brothers front a so-called 2nd Amendment advocacy group hated by many other 2nd Amendment advocacy groups, in that they seem to be in it less for rights purposes and more so they can deliberately stir up shit and try to scare Republicans, so they can profit from them.) Soundwave106 (talk) 21:52, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Donald Trump
To what extent is it safe to say that anything DT suggests as a cure should be avoided full stop/is likely to be ineffective if used in the manner suggested? Anna Livia (talk) 10:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * To the fullest extent. Spud (talk) 11:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * With the exception of when he is parroting without changing what 'the obvious experts' are saying.
 * Does he fall into the 'Not even wrong' or 'Wronger than wrong' category? Anna Livia (talk) 12:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Both. Spud (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Anyone else in the 'double up' category (in whatever areas)? Anna Livia (talk) 14:52, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I gotta wonder how, in a country that rabidly repeats the mantra of "Freedom of Speech", no one at his press conferences retorts his emetic nonsense with, "You're a fucking idiot!!!" In relation to his latest UV light inside the body and an injection of disinfectant, why not let Donald himself give it a try, live on tv. Come on, Donald, "What have you got to lose?" Cardinal Chang (talk) 16:08, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Trump is right, if you inject disinfectant you are unlikely to die of Covid19. Jumping of a high building has the same effect. The man is a genius.--Mercian (talk) 16:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Trump's a fucking disease. Cue, Sean Brennan singing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJfp48Y4v28 Cardinal Chang (talk) 17:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Would following Prince Charles' suggestions be preferable/safer #in this particular case#?

Another question: it is said that frequent hand washing with soap 'prevents transmission' - so why not use a low flying plane dispersing 'chemtrails of choice' to ensure that all populated places get soap-bubbled so the disease disappears? Or is there an element of misdirection involved? (Ensuring hands are washed is A Good Thing generally.) Anna Livia (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The hand washing is important because the virus can spread through our hands because if someone's hand touches mucus from an infectee the viral particle will stick to the hands. Washing with soap or sanitizer will destroy the particles. The "chemtrails" bullshits wouldn't work because 1. chemtrails don't exist and 2.if you tried that it would be needed to use a quantity of chemicals so large that it would kill millions of people.Tuxer (talk) 23:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I was using 'chemtrails' (rather than 'modified crop-sprayer') to indicate implausibility - and was suggesting soapy water (which would then encounter the fatbergs in the sewer systems with unintended consequences). The suggestion is 'impractical science/thought experiment' rather than 'bad science.' Anna Livia (talk) 11:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would be impractical because it would leave people covered in chemicals while hand-washing removes the soap or detergent or whatever people favor at the end. Also, some people might have adverse reaction to certain chemicals and it would be problematic.Tuxer (talk) 15:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And doing a wash-over of streets and other surfaces/applying a degradable detergent or equivalent thereon just before a heavy rainstorm (and preparing the treatment plants beforehand)? Or would this only be practical on the small scale? Anna Livia (talk) 16:10, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably on the local level and I don't think we can predict a heavy rainstorm, especially with climate change which will affect the weather on a micro-level.Tuxer (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Then one uses a 'UV from sunlight concentrator' to burn off the CV.
 * The end of the lockdown will probably coincide with 'an excess of weather' (whether or not this is magical thinking/one only noticing when inappropriate weather coincides with high days and holidays).
 * How would detergents interact with the fatbergs? Anna Livia (talk) 19:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Considering fatbergs are as hard as concrete, detergents won't do much.Tuxer (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Could 'detergents etc' slow the rate of accretion?
 * There is a difference between 'bad science'/'un-science' (chemtrails for the most part - aerial displays using coloured smoke and similar aside)/'dangerous science and under no circumstances try this at home' and 'extrapolating from basic and popular science and asking if the result is logical or feasible etc.' Anna Livia (talk) 12:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No, because fatbergs are composed of non-biodegradable matter and other disposable objects such as baby wipes, toilet paper and menstrual pads that people flush down the toilet and then concentrates in the sewers and solidifies. Fatbergs became a bit of problem at the beginning of the last decade in the UK.--Tuxer (talk) 15:22, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

"healing crystals"
Andrew Cuomo and his wife suggest using 'healing crystals' to fight against corona virus. They have both tested positive. Sigh
 * WRONG! It's his brother Chris. Might I suggest that you are a tad tRumpist, BON? --Scream!! (talk) 16:13, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you check the history for WIGO covid, you'll see that they tried to add this bit of info and then it got removed and the page protected. It's been taken care of. 18:58, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So I see. Thanks for t'info. Scream!! (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

David Blunkett
Should some of his comments on coronavirus and the over-70s etc be posted here?

Just because you turn 70 doesn't immediately make you 100% vulnerable (it is a combination of factors). Anna Livia (talk) 19:57, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Trumpery
Can something on DT's latest utterances as to the origins of the disease be added. Anna Livia (talk) 11:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I guess you mean this. I've just added it. Spud (talk) 12:12, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes.
 * How much of the future decline of the US as a global leader will be due to some of DT's posturing and arbitrary links and dislinkings? Anna Livia (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Who knows? It can be said that our stock has gone down in the world and that we've squandered quite a great deal of whatever international good will we'd aggregated under the more competent administrations, but America is still an 800-pound gorilla in the room. Whatever damage Trump does to our credibility or prestige, nothing short of the catastrophic dissolution of the United States will preclude its continued outsized influence on world affairs. Whether you can call that "leadership" or not depends on the the policies of whoever is running the show after the cheeto. --Artificius (talk) 14:44, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That would also depend on how much power the PRC accumulates. 01:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Ohio's covid "fraud" reporting website is no longer kicking people off unemployment due to hackers flooding it with junk data
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/n7wwdw/ohio-has-stopped-kicking-workers-off-unemployment-after-a-hacker-targeted-its-website

-Good praxis 65.217.55.195 (talk) 10:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

NZ Reopen Protests
Wanted to add something about the pitiful and embarrassing reopen protests in New Zealand but so far they haven't been covered by the media as far as I can see (Most likely because it was literally 6 people outside the parliament building and 20 in the city with a quarter of NZ's population. There was a self reported peak of 70 in the tiny town of Nelson but they are known for being a mix of conservative hicks and hippie dippie crystal babies). There is a hilarious twitter with the US constitution as the avatar that keeps posting Q shit and calling social distancing communism but thats about it. Is that sufficient? https://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559976624967680 https://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559450290147329 https://twitter.com/ReopenNZProtest/status/1261559055572598784 101.98.246.227 (talk) 09:39, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Precious bodily fluids
Some comment on oestrogen as protecting somewhat against coronavirus perhaps? Anna Livia (talk) 10:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, a few are trying. At this point my "educated armchair guess" though is that this is the wrong path. As mentioned in the New York Times article, estrogen has a bit of effect on ACE2, which might explain some of the differences of the mortality rate between the sexes. My guess is there are better ways to target ACE2 then a blunt hormone.
 * That being said, I don't mind the "trying everything" approach as long as there is rigor in the fact-checking. A new phenomenon in this pandemic is that "preprint servers" are becoming more and more common. Preprint servers allow papers to be published rapidly, prior to the peer review and publishing process, in order to be reviewed by anyone with an interest. It's more Wiki-ish, in that anyone can put up a paper up, and anyone can perform their own informal peer review. Like Wikis, "the crowd" can be brutal at times. And bullshit conspiracy theories from questionable researchers can pop up occasionally (the rumor that COVID-19 was created in an artificial lab largely was fueled by one of these pre-print papers). But the benefit is that things move a *lot* faster. And even the peer reviewed stuff occasionally fails (the hydroxychloroquine stuff that now appears to be pretty much bullshit was started from a peer reviewed paper).
 * So maybe my armchair though is actually bullshit, "who knows". Pharmacology isn't my "area of expertise" so I'll let those actually trained in the field sort it out. :) Soundwave106 (talk) 04:38, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What is the incel take on the suggestion? Anna Livia (talk) 22:07, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Hydroxichloroquine study
"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19." https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext 96.241.209.54 (talk) 03:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I have just added a layman's version with a shorter URL to the WIGO. Spud (talk) 07:59, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Guernsey and the coronavirus
A mention of the easing of the lockdown in the Duke of Normandy's Bailiwick (and there situation is easing in the territory of the Lord of Mann). Anna Livia (talk) 22:14, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I added this interesting story about Guernsey at the start of the month. I have just added this one about the Isle of Man. You know, Anna, you can edit this WIGO yourself. You're an autoconfirmed user. All you have to do is find a recent credible news source for any story you think deserves to be added. Spud (talk) 02:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It is adding the fancy detail - flags etc - that is the issue, and sometimes it is better to combine or arrange points. Anna Livia (talk) 14:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Flags are just a template. Just do for countries and  for states.  14:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll tell you what, you have a go next time. If you mess it up, I'll fix it for you. But it really is a piece of cake. Spud (talk) 17:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Since when is fucking Twitter a news source?
Since never. That's when. No fucking Twitter. No fucking Facebook. No fucking YouTube videos. Credible news sources only. Preferably not ones behind a paywall. Spud (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Regarding the "no sex" tweet, similar articles have been reported in Metro UK, Pink News, the Daily Heil, the Telegraph, and the Independent. Take your pick for a link change (agree that tweets generally are useless for this sort of thing), but The Independent link looks like the most even-handed non-paywalled link of the bunch. Soundwave106 (talk) 17:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and changed it to the Independent. Feel free to swap the source with a better one if you find one. 19:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That's much better. Thank you. And, thank you to you too. Spud (talk) 01:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Did the virus stop existing?
It feels like COVID-19 stopped existing as soon as the George Floyd protests broke out. No one seems to care about social distancing during the protests. We were strictly quarantined a few weeks ago and now we're congregating in the thousands. The pandemic has been largely removed from public consciousness. I'm genuinely confused. How is this occuring? I talked to people about this here but I'm still confuzzled. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 03:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've attended a couple of protests, and I'll be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be so-called "super-spreader" events. Most of us were wearing masks but we were not able to stand six feet apart.  Unfortunately there are two epidemics in the Unites States.  Covid-19 and racism .  And it looks like we'll be suffering some defeats in the first one in order to achieve some victories in the second-- "Shut up, Brx." 03:22, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting. If you read the thread I referenced, we discuss there how public congregations of this scale are fueling the conspiracy theories around Coronavirus being exagerrated. That's annoying. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 03:30, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

shoutout
to whoever came up w/ the recent "I'm sorry mario, your doctor is in another caste". Masterful. 138.207.198.74 (talk) 03:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Damn that smoking shit is wild
It’s had the opposite effect on me tbh. I hadn’t smoked in years but now I’m too poor to buy vape stuff when I need nicotine, and also I’m smoking much more than I vaped bc I’m just around the house I mean what else am I gonna do. Glad for those ppl tho smoking sucks ass and is bad obviously. 49.197.57.199 (talk) 15:20, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Trump vs. New Zealand
I can tell you that Trumps proclamations of a huge surge in NZ and that we eliminated the virus for 102 days to "show him something" have been met with bafflement and mockery. Our Prime Minister expressed as much live on TV. AceModerator 03:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Evidence of long circulation
Research news from time to time shift the onset date of pandemic earlier and earlier. I will not dive into conspirological depths, but I definitely do not understand what the fuck is that supposed to mean. Can someone sift through it and explain it, and why Wuhan became a cut-off point?
 * It means that the coronavirus was spreading before it started killing people in mass. This is why the coronavirus is so dangerous because it can spread through a country and infect thousands but because they're asymptomatic nobody notices. Then a month later hundreds of people start getting sick and dying.–Tuxer (talk) 08:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * We know it was in France as early as December . In all likelihood it was most likely moving around the UK and the rest of Europe at the same time.--RWRW (talk) 13:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

There was another story about early community circulation of the virus recently. It came out that an 84 year old who was hospitalised on 7 January and died 30 January had coronavirus (and he hadn't left the UK). Further suggests the virus was circulating in late December/early January. --RWRW (talk) 09:43, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

My main question was: why Wuhan is known as a cutoff point, is this shit was around for much longer?

Covid data tracker
This here is a good source, in case anyone here wants to use it. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:59db:4100:b057:5165:2562:5e06 / talk
 * I'll point out it's only for the United States. Spud (talk) 05:43, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Personally I'd recommend the map from JHU more, it's global and includes all countries. 08:15, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

south dakota uses $5m of coronavirus relief money on tourism ad campaign
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/kristi-noem-south-dakota-coronavirus-relief-funds-tourism/ 96.241.209.54 (talk) 09:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Added, thanks for the suggestion. I saw South Dakota was in the news again the other day, apparently 250,000 Covid cases can be traced back to a motorcycle rally there. No idea if its accurate. I've looked at pictures of the event and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was super spreader, but 250k seems an awful lot.--RWRW (talk) 14:04, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * That particular estimate comes from analyzing cell phone data, fairly certain contract tracers have been able to positively identify a few hundred cases and at least one death. -RipCityLiberal (talk) 22:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Café cough
Does this belong on the page? Anna Livia (talk) 22:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Only for September section. Tuxer (talk) 17:49, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Scottish MP with Covid
She should be included here. Anna Livia (talk) 12:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. I was going to wait until she resigned, so as not to have to keep updating the story. I'll say again, you can add it yourself if you like. If you make a mess of it, I'll tidy it up for you. Spud (talk) 12:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was also waiting to see if she'd resign first, and am surprised she hasn't already done so. We now know she attended a Church service after taking a test and whilst displaying symptoms . --RWRW (talk) 15:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Now that Margaret Ferrier is back in the news, I've just added a story about her to the page. The delay means I had to write a longer description than I would have liked to get everyone up to speed. If I'd known she'd still stubbornly refuse to resign after all this time, I'd have added something on her earlier. Spud (talk) 10:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * what is she resigning from? shes not in anyones cabinet. does anyone resign from being an MP? the whip can be removed, and voters can decide on her worth at the earliest opportunity otherwise AMassiveGay (talk) 10:55, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Resignation from the British house of commons AMassiveGay (talk) 11:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * MPs do resign on occasion - sometimes for good reasons, sometimes because they were found out: see this. Anna Livia (talk) 22:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah MPs can 'resign', this video sums it up quite well (skip to about 2 minutes in if you want to avoid the intro blabber). Of course the good people of Rutherglen and Hamilton West could boot Ferrier out themselves - by use of the MP recall petition. --RWRW (talk) 12:12, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * also dominic cummings is still with a job, and unlike Ferrier can actually be sacked AMassiveGay (talk) 12:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * they can 'resign' yes, but it is rarity for anything short of a criminal conviction or they wish to contest some other office such as the mayor of london. betty boothroyd seems to be the last mp to 'resign' that was not due to taking up another job or forced to - she just wanted to retire. they normally just see out their term and not seek reelection AMassiveGay (talk) 12:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * scratch that, david cameron and john bercow left via accepting the stewardship of the manor of northstead, though neither were exactly unprompted AMassiveGay (talk) 12:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * no precedent for resignations due to just being pricks though AMassiveGay (talk) 13:03, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Donald Trump and the virus
'Someone said' - Trumpery had the virus and falls into several high risk categories but appears to be back to normal (for him) - so how will this affect perceptions?

Also - various political figures (including Bojo's father, various MPs etc) appear to act as if the rules do not apply to them and are neither given slapped wrists nor, (and including those who test positive and self-isolate) in a significant number of cases, do not appear to suffer seriously from the illness, how will the general public view the matter?

And surely as well as the number of people testing positive being on the news daily the number of people actually hospitalised should also be included? Anna Livia (talk) 19:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, more positive tests could just be a function of more tests. Wall to wall corona coverage, and no relevant data. Red Squirrel (talk) 16:08, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * One needs to know the following numbers (in whatever form) in order to have a meaningful discussion: those being tested, those testing positive, those with 'a bit of a throat' or no symptoms, or requiring 'bedrest equivalent to a severe cold or 'flulike', those hospitalised, those dying and those suffering middling-long term symptoms ('long covid') - plus breakdowns by age, underlying health factors, 'other factors' (cities and low population density countryside may well have different rates and patterns etc). Otherwise all that there is consists of 'random facts, unknown knowns, etc bordering on GIGO.
 * Popular perceptions of 'they do what they want and make us obey the rules, and they haven't a clue as to what they are doing, and X months after Covid was recognised I appear to be sufficiently healthy for it to be a minor nuisance' (polite versions) are likely to be or become more of a danger than the disease itself. Anna Livia (talk) 20:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Half-remembered meme
'I read somewhere' - 'someone said' - it is Covid 19, why didn't "they" sort it out with Covid-1? Where did this bit of flawed illogic come from? Anna Livia (talk) 22:59, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * it's a simple mistake that millions of people have probably genuinely made independently of each other. Spud (talk) 01:52, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Another UK entry
This councillor. Anna Livia (talk) 00:06, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

ACE2 treatment showing heavy promise
"upon treatment of an adaptive immune response, the disappearance of the virus swiftly from the serum, the nasal cavity and lungs, and a reduction of inflammatory cytokine levels that are critical for COVID-19 pathology. " https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-020-00374-6. 50.236.255.188 (talk) 14:46, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

A WIGO for nice things (cross posted from WIGO: World, WIGO: Elections for visibility)
So as discussed here, I have been setting up a WIGO in my userspace to focus specifically on positive news stories and whatnot. It is now live here, and I would appreciate some help making it look nice! Additionally, while I don’t think it’s worth making into its own Official WIGO, I was wondering if/when I could link to it somewhere in the WIGO pages for COVID, elections, and world? Any help is appreciated, thank you so much! I’m going to bed now but yeah, if you wanna have a go I think it would be very nice :) 16:12, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

belgium sex party
this wigo misses the point somewhat of the story. it is only notable because Szajer is not merely an ally of orban, but a founding member of fidesz, a notably homophobic party, but was also responsible for rewriting the hungary's constitution defining marriage as between a man and woman.

its not that an mep was caught at a gay sex party - its that a noted anti-gay politician was caught at a gay sex party. embarrassing hypocrisy for the antigay christian values party. though it was well known it seems that szajer was gay before this, its just the salacious headlines of 'gay sex party' that garners interest. its only orbans opponents and pro lgbt folk who will crow about the hypocrisy. i doubt fidesz voters will give much of a shit about the hypocrisy of gay man drafting anti gay legislation. and since hes resigned pretty much immediately, his, to them unseemly, behaviour probably wont do orban or his party any real damage.

he might not deserve much pity, and it is effectively a gay man being forced to resign for being gay. for anyone else this would be an injustice. but the police were not interested in the 'gay sex', it was just the 'party' bit that flouted covid restrictions. anyone else, would say sorry and pay fine, move on with life. but his party's homophobia made the gay sex bit very interesting to everyone. and being complicit in that homophobia... what goes around comes around i guess.AMassiveGay (talk) 19:09, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Russian vaccines
There are two vaccines currently tested in Russia. I know only Russian news feeds, so cannot post it here, but maybe something already leaked out?
 * EpiVakCorona has cleared trials and is approved for mass vaccination. News said so far no mutant variant is resistant to it. I suck at parsing online news, and this wsa in Russian.Arisano (talk) 05:01, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Why don't people trust the vaccines?
Aren't there like, three vaccines being developed? 1.136.104.194 (talk) 07:21, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Anti-vaxxers are not rational people. There are much more than 3 vaccines being already tested. Also, I personally doubt Sputnik-V (I live in Russia) specifically, simply because it was very rushed - poison or conspiracy stuff is ridiculous, but fake shot with no actual vaccine is quite possible with our corruption levels (though I can wait for a different one).--Arisano (talk) 17:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Relatives unearthing their dead, plastic-covered relatives who tell them in dreams they're suffocating
Not gonna lie, this sounds like the ominous beginning to a slow-burning horror story. Ryan1257 (talk) 20:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It really does, doesn't it? Twodots   Annoy me   Look, ma!  20:34, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Just as Australia announces
'Australia announces'. no it does not. one man 'announces' in the story. its one mans opinion. Australia still on board with quarantine hotels. 00:05, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Corrected. Thanks for catching that. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Flu rates
Some mention could be made of the vastly decreased flu rates - eg and  and other places. Anna Livia (talk) 20:21, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Not citing the bloody Daily Mail it couldn't be. Spud (talk) 04:43, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

dominic cummings
his statements to the select committee should be viewed with the knowledge that they are statements from dominic cummings. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:30, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * a 'woman scorned' dominic cummings at that AMassiveGay (talk) 13:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

A dumbass asks: Mandatory vaccines in the US military?
Looks like things are going that way. --2001:8003:59DB:4100:7533:FE8A:65CF:B702 (talk) 02:10, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * It would need a better reference. Spud (talk) 02:45, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The military cannot make the vaccine mandatory now because it only has an emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration. When emergency use authorization ends, what will happen next... --2001:8003:59DB:4100:7533:FE8A:65CF:B702 (talk) 02:56, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Several shots for different viruses and diseases are already mandatory. Also, Biden has not dismissed requiring all U.S. service members to get a COVID-19 vaccine once the shot is fully approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). --2001:8003:59DB:4100:7533:FE8A:65CF:B702 (talk) 02:57, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * To address this nonsense, the US military has an standing mandate to maintain combat readiness. Sick soldiers, or soldiers who infect civilians and other soldiers are contrary to that mandate. Further, I would hope I wouldn't have to point out the differences between civilian and military life. I really shouldn't need to. 03:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * At this point I'd support mandatory vaccines for the whole population above 18. The only good argument I can think against it is the political polarisation. It's not like you'll get arrested or anything because you didn't take the vaccine, just making your life harder in some ways. GeeJayK (talk) 12:53, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

A dumbass excitedly shares: COVID-19 Has Forever Destroyed Americans' Trust in Ruling Class 'Experts' | Opinion
COVID-19 Has Forever Destroyed Americans' Trust in Ruling Class 'Experts' | Opinion. Interesting article. People don't trust the media and scientists like they used to. --2001:8003:59DB:4100:81FA:200D:E939:6550 (talk) 05:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * And that's more than likely why the covid response in America has been somewhat pitiful. And the vaccine uptake is rather worryingly low compared to other countries. Cardinal Chang (talk) 21:38, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Does a basic check on the kind of stuff that writer publishes. Oh what? He consistently pushes GOP soundbites and moral panics? Say it isn't so! Oh who could have etc etc etc... 01:02, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Anyone who thinks scientists are “ruling class” in America is an absolute drooling moron. 01:24, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * BON has a history of sharing stuff from Daily Wire and Gateway Pundit, so make what of you will. See thread above. Person shared a Vox Day link. 02:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * its really not covid that has destroyed trust in 'experts'. it largely the previous occupant of the white house, his fuck nut mates and shitty news media where disingenuous opinions of opportunistic liars replaces and masquerades as actual news reporting. destroyed trust, yes. more accurately deliberately assassinated. the hallmarks of a healthy democracy, freedom of speech and a free press, twisted by cunts into the instruments of its destruction. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * At least half of America is fully vaccinated. 60%+ have received at least one dose. More in Democratic counties, less in Republican counties, of course. So the headline and the poster is just a blowhard. America has different media to chose from. Some get lured into the right wing circle of hell for reasons we all know. Visit that circle for too long, and it may end up that your epidemiologist of a choice is a pedophile expat pig-farmer in the Philippines. Those in this circle indeed might not trust anyone for medical expertise except for blowhards such as professional wrestlers and compadres of cuckolds, various loud dumb dogs that bark loud but have no brains. The rest of us marches on, looks at the delta variant, says "meh" because so far the vaccines seems pretty good against it, and wishes your anti-vaxx conspiracy worshiping relatives on Facebook good luck. Sounds like they're gonna need it. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 13:08, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

just for Bob Enyart
couldnt happen to nicer chap. heres to you, bob, you sack of shit AMassiveGay (talk) 16:38, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * for those who cannot read:

'He was also an outspoken opponent of homosexuality and gay rights. On his old show, “Bob Enyart Live,” the host would “gleefully read obituaries of AIDS sufferers” while blasting the Queen song “Another One Bites the Dust,” according to Denver news outlet Westworld.'

AMassiveGay (talk) 17:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Litter
And why would they be reticent to get the injections? What have they seen at these hospitals...

yeh they would be fired if they are putting patients at risk from going unvaccinated. id assume the reticence stems from so much dogshit be flung around in the name of anti vaxx and by assorted fucknuts with nothing but dogshit to contribute to the world. i mean, i assume you forgot the tonnes of anti vaxx noise all over place while trying to sound cryptically like you are on to something. that doesnt work when vague and mysterious allusions are only going to allude to some dogshit anti vax talking point, or nothing at all but complete vacuity. maybe all the dogshit is to fill that void? AMassiveGay (talk) 12:31, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
 * So, finding an article with numbers, in North Carolina, the number of workers fired was 175. That may sound high until you see that North Carolina's health care system has over 35,000 employees. So, 0.5% employees were dogshit anti-health dumbasses in a "purple" state, in a nation where anti-vaccination is a badge of honor for worshipers of the Angry Baby. In Texas, which is slightly more cuckoo for Angry Baby, the number is 153 out of 26,000 (about 0.6%). Seems like most health care workers are getting vaccinated. There's always going to be a few nutjobs who believe what they read on a dogshit Facebook group, of course. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 13:29, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

show some class, for fucks sake
while i can admit that some folks death earn more than a little schadenfreude (hi bob eynart), the husband of woman who sued to get treatment with something elements in the media had been hyping up as a wonderdrug, does not. obnoxiously trying to do what she thought misguidedly was the best for her husband does not. vaccine denial advising against or actively trying to prevent others getting vaccinated, promoting snake oil rather than those being taken in by charlatans pushing it deserve al the opprobrium.

this woman did nothing but desperately clutch at straws as her husband's condition worsened, did not manage to get ivermectin administered so that wasnt a factor in his death from covid and not on her misguided efforts. shes not in anyway a public figure with a responsibility to not mislead or have any influence to do so if she had tried purposely spread dangerous bullshit, which she didnt.

her husband is a victim of the covid pandemic, and her actions other ivermectin highlighted the dangers of maliciously spreading lies and cruelty of pushing false hope on to those at their most susceptible to it.

the line we have taken is needless mocking, gloating about her husbands death - 'doesnt need it any more' or at best it thoughtlessly callous and glib. in either case its the wrong take, and probably didnt warrant a wigo in the first place. Do better AMassiveGay (talk) 22:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 * In principle, I agree with you, I really do. What makes this different though is that she's putting more stress on healthcare workers since not only do they have to battle covid, but frivolous lawsuits from people who see this story and will do the same. They are victims of swindlers, that's not up for debate. The issue is that victims can still become perpetrators in their own right since they help grease on the wheels of all the efforts to sabotage any effective response to covid. If this woman has a "come to Jesus" moment and tells the public about her story of how these personalities manipulated her by pushing false hope about a miracle cure, how she realized it was all BS, and that people should follow the protocol we all know to prevent covid, masks and vaccine, I could feel sympathy. Right now, my sympathy wells have been tapped dry not just by the people I read about, but by the actions of people around me. That's probably the hardest thing for me to say since I've been taught to take a clinical approach when encountering troubled people by not asking, "Why are you so fucked up?", but "What issues are you having? How can I help you?".-Ryan1257 (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * she and her husband are the victims here. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:22, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * her husband just died. she doesnt have to do shit. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:23, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Dennis Prager
Wow, I've heard of idiots using one or two "covid cures" to prevent covid, even though cure means it can only treat the ailment, not prevent it, but he managed to somehow take all of them (including Regeneron which is a legit treatment, but is expensive as hell, requires 2-4 shots in the abdomen, and only treats covid IF YOU HAVE IT!). Yet for some reason, catching covid anyway was all part of the plan since that leads to "better immunity" even though those treatments were supposed to prevent... covid... how the hell does any of this make sense!? Bottom line, screw this man for killing more gullible people just to "own the libs". I hope the side effects of these "cures" were all painful and that he crapped his adult diaper more than once in front of others or was with company! Edit:Typo-Ryan1257 (talk) 16:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Litterer shares something the military would call bullshit on
Defense Department Pulls a Bait and Switch on Vaccines - If a soldier goes to a military hospital or a private provider to receive an approved Pfizer COVID vaccine, he will be administered the unapproved Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. Coerced, it’s illegal. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:DDB1:C600:15BA:85B7:1914:4978 / talk


 * Do you have a source for any of this that isn't a dogshit website? I'm asking because 'Pfizer COVID vaccine' and 'Pfizer-BioNTech COVID vaccine' are the same damn thing. Queexchthonic murmurings 10:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You're responding to someone using SovCit level argumentation. Just accept that they're a moron. 13:04, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Litterer goes "uh-oh" after their large intestine ruptures
Uh oh...
 * are you undergoing treatment for multiple myeloma with your immune system compromised? no? then fuck off. AMassiveGay (talk) 22:01, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not undergoing treatment. Take care. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:DDB1:C600:98AD:8BC7:E88B:D570 / talk
 * When you die of covid you won't be missed BoN. 23:47, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "After 12 days from the first vaccination of the AstraZeneca vaccine, you are 100% effective against hospitalisation and death". &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:DDB1:C600:885D:D331:A553:1337 / talk
 * Uh huh. Sure you got vaxxed. Sure.... 01:08, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * When the "Experts" are saying you are 100% protected in January 2021, and by October same year they are saying you need continual booster shots, I would not be so trusting of these experts... &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:DDB1:C600:885D:D331:A553:1337 / talk
 * Yeah, I've never heard the 100% claim. Sounds like you're building a strawman there. Also, I still don't believe you got vaxxed. 01:24, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * You can listen to her saying that here. Was not hard to find.
 * so what you are saying is no official statements. really, just fuck off. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:47, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * and of course, it would not apply to the immuno-compromised at rate. off you fuck. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:51, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Litterer shares something stupid. Please clean up the litter, and do get vaccinated, everyone.
Well this is worrying.


 * Sweden Suspends Moderna Shot Indefinitely After Vaxxed Patients Develop Crippling Heart Condition - Dr. Tom Shimabukuro said there is an increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis with either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, in particular after the second dose of the vaccines.


 * Yes, Sweden is encouraging the Pfizer vaccine instead for younger people where the risk/reward balance is possibly less compelling. The condition is rare and usually mild, but people are being very cautious, which is fine. Veterinarian Geert Vanden Bossche's claims appear to be evolution-ignorant and thus can safely be ignored, although if you're the type of person that falls for the bullshit of 's fake news sites I don't have a whole lot of hope of you doing so. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 00:06, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello again, recurring litterer. Please clean up after yourself. 01:35, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It's a shame there's no vaccine against stupid. Ryan1257 (talk) 19:44, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Litterer pulls bullshit from a Twitter wanker
Uh oh... &mdash; Unsigned, by: 2001:8003:DDB1:C600:587C:9A78:5880:8914 / talk


 * uh-oh... AMassiveGay (talk) 08:25, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * you know you are killing people right? going unvaccinated, encouraging other people to not get vaccinated, is killing people right? killing unvaccinated people at risk from covid after come into contact with other selfish unvaccinated pricks with covid? killing people who aret able to get vaccinated for health reasons because they came into other selfish unvaccinated pricks with covid? everytime you post someone dying from covid your inane 'uh-oh', just remember that you killed them. prickAMassiveGay (talk) 08:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What is fun about this account is that it posts links without actually reading it (sounds familiar...), I had to Google the bullshit Twitter account it was regurgitating to figure out what it was talking about. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 11:51, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * They don't care. As long as they "own the libs". 13:16, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Next time this BoN shares something, it'll be removed. I don't even care if it's relevant or not, it'll be removed. Don't respond, it'll be easier for me to decide to remove the content. 23:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * And it's plainly obvious their only intent is to spam links when they dropped an edit of this manner in one of my talk page archives. Revert any edits of this manner especially if they're made by IP strings beginning with 2001:8003:DDB1:C600. 01:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Sir Keir Starmer
Tests positive and has to self-isolate just before the Budget debate.

The same happens again, with the Tony Blair knighthood issue.

Any connection? (And if he were to be killed by a incident he would become a Covid statistic.) Anna Livia (talk) 13:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Every politician has a defence mechanism for getting out of sticky situations. Boris ruffles his hair and starts quoting The Iliad, and Sir Kier starts isolating. --RWRW (talk) 15:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * And 'the other chap' is totally invisible (there is more of Nichola Sturgeon on TV).
 * 'Bits of the Palace of Westminster' regularly fall off and some almost hit people.


 * How would Maggie have handled the Covid situation? Anna Livia (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

new zealand protestors
why would barry manilow's greatest hits put people off? maybe they are just fanilows. you are supposed to use offensively awful music as a deterant. should have gone with thrash metal or something. not easy listening. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:26, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 * or maybe country and western. thats fucking awful. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:27, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Archiving WIGO Covid
It got mentioned in the Saloon and given the subject is winding down (we're 11 days into March and only have seen 3 contributions so far, all of whom are by ), it may be fruitful to consider archiving this WIGO. Thoughts are welcome. Archival would mean similar to what happened with Citizendium: we'd remove it from the quickbar and move it to defunct. The few articles we get reported can be rolled into the regular WIGO, it's not like we have a deluge of COVID news anymore. -- Techpriest (talk) 20:44, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. Thankfully, the time has come to archive it. Spud (talk) 23:55, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with demoting this wigo. This is a simple change to a single template (and maybe a note on the wigocv page itself) so ti's not really a big deal. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:18, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * No objections from me. --RWRW (talk) 01:30, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, good! In that case, I'll archive it on the first of April. -- Techpriest (talk) 20:23, 14 March 2022 (UTC)