Talk:Tor-André Kongelf

I just saw this article about me and I was quite shocked to see this about myself.

Most of not all of it is entirely untrue.

1. Using comments like "he is an islamophobe" is a vile accusation that requires some actual documentation. I not believe that people should communicate with words that describe the other persions as having a mental dissorder. You should always engange people with other opinions with arguments, facts and reason.

The word islamophobe indicates that the person has a irrational fear of something caused by mental illness. My criticism of islam is not a mental disease. Its a statement of my observations about that religion as a whole or contents within it.

2. There is an accusation that I want to portray muslims in a negative light. I do not and have never had this agenda. I consider myself as an ally and a friend of most muslims that believe in common and descent secular values. Other more radical muslims with stronger viewpoints are worthy of my condemnation, as does any person who wants to spread extreme viewpoints even though they are entitled to do so according to freedom of speach. Its impossible and irrational to have a view on "all muslims" since that is an amazingly large spectrum of different people. The reason why I write about this issues is my sympathy for those people who are suffering of abuse from people with extreme viewpoints within their own religion.

There is not possible to find a quote of me saying anything negativ about muslims as group of people. But on islam as a political movement you will find many. There is a difference about attacking certain ideas and a group of people.

3. When it comes to Document.no. I have never posted/written or been on the site but I am a big advocate of alternative viewpoints appart from mainstream media and support their right to put out their own newsarticle and have people discuss them. Its a great contribution to have a democratic and sivil society. There is also no reason to portray any specific site as "islamophobic". You might disagree with their news articles, but then should then be reasoned with and argued with.

4. I do not believe that muslims should not be welcomed in Norway. I have never stated this and this is not a position I hold. I believe that immigration as a whole should be alot more strict so that the people who actually needs help get it faster, and those who do not need it should be dismissed faster. This is a common view in norwegian politics or in many other countries for that matter.

5. I believe many religions have evil in them. Christiany teaches that people will go to hell for not believing. I believe spreading that specific doctrine to children is evil. I believe the act of circumsition of healthy young baby boys in judaism is an act of evil. In islam there is many aspects I find and would call evil. The teaching of martydom, honor killings, neglect of women and intolerance to unbelievers is something I find as a evil doctrine. In all the mentioned religions you will find verses and text that promote goodness.

When I write "islam is evil" it has to be looked into a certain context where there is a specific doctrine within islam which is being discussed. Even so, saying that certain ideas is evil is a perfectly tolerable position to hold.

6. I find it very offensive and as an act of personal abuse to write untrue things about me on the internet also without my knowledge. If you want to engange me in debate and civil dialogue I am more than welcome to do that.
 * I have a suspicion that Tor-Andre and I would disagree on most politics but this "article" smacks of a hit and run job. Either it needs a lot more substantiation as to why we need an article on him or it needs deleting. Placeholder (talk) 16:59, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Also: Just because a word ends in "-phobe" doesn't mean it has anything to do with mental illness. In this case, islamophobia has absolutely nothing to do with mental illness. It just means "irrational fear of Islam". Just fyi. Nullahnung (talk) 17:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

If you regard the word islamophobe in the same way as homophobe I would agree to a certain extend. However the specific word islamophobia is not meant to develop a further arguemtns. Its a way to shut down the person by branding him as not worty of respect. Its a tool and a conversation stopper. However if someone has the view that I am I have an irrational fear of islam I would like to discuss that if they want to. I do however believe most aspects of radical islam is worthy of reasoned fear of spreading, and that fear is not irrational. Tor-Andre (talk) 17:13, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Taking what this guy is saying here at face value, he appears to be repeating perhaps an unconventional definition of Islamophobia. It may be based on a principled distinction between political and religious positions among muslims, but the boundary is extremely fuzzy, and I haven't seen enough to understand. If the article remains, someone with a good background in these Norwegian extremist groups and responses to Islamism in general ought to have a look. Does anyone besides the author even know or care who this guy is? Otherwise, the article really does read like a hit piece. The guy may or may not be a crank. He's definitely a nobody as political players expressing extreme positions and prominent cranks go. Even if the inferences that his positions are so radical are fair, the question is "so what?" [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]]100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 17:38, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

The problem with the word its self is that it has so many subjective definitions. Therefore when someone uses the word it carries alot of baggage to it that doesnt really portray the reciever in a correct way and not even a way it was intended. There are basically no extremist groups in Norway of the type you seem to refering to, in my knowledge. I dont understand why someone would care about me in this way. I have never published anything, I am not an official figure. I am just a random guy debating on news article on the internet like thousands of others. To me it feels like someone with a very big bias has decided to go on a personal vendetta on me. Tor-Andre (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Deleted
If any sysop feels the deletion was too peremptory, well, you have the power to restore the page. I just don't see any point to it. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 18:54, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of articles on US-American Islamophobes here. Why should this be any different for Norwegians? This seems clearly missional. Octo8 (talk) 18:56, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Because he's hardly notable - OK, so he's not happy with Islam but if we had a page for everyone who posts YouTube/Twitter comments that are anti-Islam then that would be all we had. Placeholder (talk) 19:48, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The person who wrote this page wrote a bunch of articles on similar Nordic anti-Islam bloggers, etc. When I'm done writing this thing I'm writing, I may gather them up into one article and leave this and those as redirects to that. PowderSmokeAndLeather (talk) 20:28, 17 February 2014 (UTC)