Talk:Adolf Hitler

most evil human section
is just facile genocidal top trumps and should be scrubbed from the article. he is no less evil because some others may be responsible for more deaths, and he is no more evil than someone with the blood of far fewer people. while hitler and the Nazis are the benchmark for evil in the western world, this section doesnt really go anywhere. it adds little to the article while elevating his crimes to something far beyond what normal human beings are capable of, it obscures the fact, the scale not withstanding, that genocide was not new nor unique, and normal human beings are very capable of doing some truly awful things. sadly we are too often reminded of this, and sadder still, not early enough. It should always be remembered that hitler was but one man, and could not have caused so much suffering on such a scale on his own. it required many more people, normal human beings, to be complicit in mass murder. hitler was a monster, but even if he was uniquely evil quibbling over 'how evil' misses this point and makes us miss the warnings that may make monsters of any of us. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:45, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. 15:29, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes. There is no need to mark Hitler out as "most evil" as if there were some sort of contest. "Extremely evil" would do. Also, I question whether anyone could show their face in polite society in America after publicly praising Stalin. Ariel31459 (talk) 17:14, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * 90% of the discovery channel's output is such contest. they are just lacking simon cowell AMassiveGay (talk) 17:31, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Good, we're getting somewhere on critiquing this page. The Disco Channel would be worth noting as promoting the 'most evil' trope as well as the loony trope of 'killing Hitler in infancy would save the world'. Bongolian (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * i dunno why its always killing hitler as a baby that we go to for that kind of trope. we could just wait till hes a bit older and obviously a cunt so we don't have to have wring our hands over baby killing AMassiveGay (talk) 19:53, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * i am reluctant to just out right delete this section at this time as i am unsure with what to replace it with and just what the focus of this article is or what we are trying to achieve.
 * this i think is an issue we have here on rationalwiki, particularly for historical figures so well known and with such a massive place in history. if we are not after an encyclopedic entry resulting in a likely subpar Wikipedia page, we still need to actually explain their place in history and we need to balance that with what we consider 'missional'. an indepth discussion of hitlers religion might be missional, but juxtaposed with the holocaust seems a tad petty.
 * maybe some kind general overview, a kind of Wikipedia page in brief, to highlight we are aware of the things hes done and his place in history with relevant links to where they are discussed in more depth, then a kind of mission statement of what this article will focusing on? it would be especially useful if the focus is not so much hitler but how hes been viewed or used by the various nutjobs we know and love. it might avoid any issues of balance. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:19, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem right to joke about Hitler and homosexuality: "Hitler's sex life, or lack thereof, has provided the grist for many a rumor mill — ranging from the assertion that he died a virgin, to his supposedly having deformed genitals[66], to the possibility that he was gay.[67] The idea that Hitler was gay is not in any way undermined by his taste in art (see illustration).[68]" I don't like the text under the illustration either: " Hitler's taste in art included anything by Arno Breker. Something you'd like to get off your chest, Adolf?" Ariel31459 (talk) 01:20, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

If you want to rewrite it, go for it. Bongolian (talk) 01:09, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Finding his religion section
This section should probably be renamed, given that most of it is devoted to rumours that have nothing to do with Hitler's religion, and that his personal religious beliefs are addressed in a separate section of the article.--Omicron (talk) 15:50, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay
I've basically done what I'm gonna do to this article. 15:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I've reviewed everything you've added, DuceMoosolini: it looks great. There are still parts of the page that could use revision, but I think we can move it to silver now. Anyone else? Bongolian (talk) 18:11, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I've unilaterally decided that we've just about hit the "or forever hold your peace" part of these proceedings. So does anyone object to upgrading this article to silver? 21:37, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Lmao
Imagine being the sort of person who thinks to themselves, “I’m going to spend tonight whitewashing an article on Adolf freaking Hitler on a C-List wiki project because I’m offended that they called him a nasty dude”. 08:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd call RW more B-list than anything else, we're ranked pretty high in the alexa ratings. — Oxyaena Harass  13:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

That Hitler 'joke'
I don't think that joke was funny (that Hitler wasn't all bad because he killed Hitler). He escaped justice by killing himself and not facing a war crimes trial.

The idea of Hitler can be funny, but only as Mel Brooks has presented him as far as I've seen it (The Producers, Blazing Saddles). Bongolian (talk) 20:09, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What Bongolian said. Scream!! (talk) 20:15, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Stopped clock moments
One could also add Emil Maurice to this section. He was Hitler's personal chauffeur and a member of the SS, despite having a Jewish great-grandfather. Hitler declared him an Honorary Aryan, a move which infuriated Himmler. There are also rumours that Maurice had an affair with Hitler's niece Geli Raubal (who could also be mentioned in the article proper, given the bizarre rumours about her and her uncle being in an incestuous relationship). 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:F905:5089:4896:FDD2 (talk) 14:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * no this should not be added to the section. not doubting your facts, but whats currently in this section should not be there either. the existing example as well as this new suggestion are simply not 'stopped clocked moments' no matter how much we want to far stretch that hackneyed and already pretty meaningless concept. its simply a case of a bigot making arbitrary exceptions as and when they see fit. its the 'you are alright, its all them others' racist trope. not gassing a few jews who hitler personally knew is a not a stopped clock moment.


 * not convinced any particularly interested point is made by highlighting the one or two individuals hitler spared when he still sent millions to the gas chambers. hitler seeing enough good these people that they be be spared did not read to a reassessment of his antisemitism or his genocidal policies. nor is it particularly enlightening that the nazi elites applied subjectively the laws they brought in criminalising the jewish people and legalising oppression murder. law was a tool to serve the ruling nazis. ignoring it when convenient, and those in power did so to enrich themselves and help themselves and their friends whenever they could. nazi germany was a place where if you knew someone in the high command, you could side step laws. if you knew hitler, you could get away with alot. he had a nephew who was constantly asking uncle adolf to bail him out of any trouble he got into. in this case it meant some jewish individuals got to live.


 * using his position to save these few jews from the genocide he instigated does not warrant a section that is effectively saying 'hes wasnt all bad'. 'not all bad' is banal and we shouldnt be shocked that monsters from history said and did things not monstrous now and again. we wont spot the next hitler till too late if we expect monsters to look like and act like cackling comic book villains. our monsters are human beings capable of the all the good and bad humans are capable of doing. we are all capable of doing so much. should always remember that the inhumanity that people like hitler do or inspire is all too human. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I didn't write the section, I'm simply pointing it out; if you want to remove it by all means go ahead, I can't edit the page. Take it up with whoever wrote it. Or you can change the heading to "Massive Hypocrite". That's all it looks like to me, and I don't see how pointing that out is in any way saying that Hitler wasn't all bad. I also don't see anything in that very small section which calls for "a reassessment of his antisemitism or his genocidal policies", or even suggests it. There were millions of Germans who thought the same way: i.e. "all Jews are bad, except for the ones I personally know (or am related to!)." That's just how it was.


 * Hitler wasn't the only Nazi to do stuff like this either. Pointing that out does not equal mitigation, any more than pointing out that slaveowners had intimate relationships with their slaves means they weren't massive racist pieces of shit. 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:85BB:A100:3D8A:9537 (talk) 21:46, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * You do realize that "slaveowners had intimate relationships with their slaves" means they were raped right? Plutocow (talk) 22:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I would also support cutting the stopped clock section. 22:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thirded. "Stopped clock" is one of the more misused phrases I've encountered here...-Flandres (talk) 01:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I only used it to highlight the section I was talking about, not because I agree with the phrase. According to this wiki, it's "when someone who generally spouts harmful, hateful, or just nonsensical views says or does something that is unambiguously beneficial". Perhaps Hitler shooting himself qualifies?


 * And yes, of course slaves were raped. But their owners' belief in the inherent racial inferiority of African Americans, as well as a host of laws designed to prohibit miscegenation, did not stop them from fathering numerous children with those slaves, and making little attempt to hide it. The Nazis did much the same thing. Concentration camp guards would rape inmates, despite severe punishments being meted out to Aryans who had any sort of a relationship with a Jew. The word for it is hypocrisy. I shoud have worded that a little better though: "slaveowners thinking they had intimate relationships with their slaves" was more what I was going for, since many slaveowners were delusional about how loyal their slaves were, and would express surprise when they ran away at the first opportunity. 2A00:23C7:99A4:5000:39D8:4458:3854:E3A (talk) 13:23, 5 May 2022 (UTC)