RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Joshua Conner Moon

Joshua Conner Moon | Result: no consensus possible, discussion crapped up

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Delete

 * 1) Appears to be a non-missional hit piece Owlman (talk) (mail) 07:40, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) I think it should be deleted on the grounds of "Don't feed the trolls" and this is all it is doing.--2d4chanfag (talk) 08:36, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * A whole bunch of new accounts show up to swarm the AFD for an article about an internet troll. What a coincidence! 13:55, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * @ FuzzyCat, NitroMan created the article and anti-racist activist also contributed to it. They aren't new accounts. I'm currently using an IP because I rarely use this site, but I was a former sysop here. The article should not be deleted. The person who sent the deletion request (owlman) is from Kiwi Farms and Joshua told him to try to remove it. What I find hilarious is that Josh claims to be a total freedom of speech activist (he defends defamation/hate speech), but if someone says something about him he doesn't like, he wants it deleted. He reminds me of Emil Kirkegaard.86.14.2.77 (talk) 14:12, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * "Owlman is from Kiwifarms".--JorisEnter (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Internet drama + hitpiece + too many random accounts trying to keep this tells me that this should be deleted ASAP.--JorisEnter (talk) 14:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I find it strange you would help Joshua Conner Moon when he's been involved in cyber-stalking, defaming and non-stop harassing an ex-RW sysop here (going as far as stealing his photos and writing "pedophile" above his head at Kiwi Famrs); deleting Josh's page is exactly what he wants. Kiwi Farms are already bragging about this.86.14.2.77 (talk) 14:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Why do we want to fool with this small gang of man-babies and all their stupid troll drama? --Cosmikdebris (talk) 17:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) Delete, also what's this stuff about Owlman being from Kiwifarms or something? I notice none of them have provided any evidence. Christopher (talk) 18:16, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Kiwi Farms posted they "own" a sysop account here and they infiltrated the site. I suspect (but cannot prove) its owlman based on the fact his false accusation anti-racist activist & Nitro man are the same person is copy & pasted from Kiwi Farms and Joshua said he was sending someone here to try to delete it. Also I wrote a more detailed statement here why I think the article should not be deleted.86.14.2.77 (talk) 18:22, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Getting sysop isn't hard and is hardly an achievement. Sysops here are vandalism cleaners. 22:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) The article is not handled maturely and is too quote-farmy for me. Because Moon is the site owner, it would be more suitable to have a page dedicated for the site not the owner. I recall RW having an article for the site, but it was deleted. 22:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) Personally, I think that almost anyone covered on ED (who is not obviously relevant in the way that public figures like Richard Dawkins, Ken Ham, Alex Jones etc are) need not be covered here "as well". And not just in an effort to keep the editorial practices of ED as far away from RW as possible. Feel free to call moralistic fallacy on me here, but by and large, I reckon overlap in coverage of individuals between ED and RW ought to be made as minimal as possible, now and in the future. Moralistic fallacy again, but to me, our focus should really be on (bare with me here) science/movements/trends/parties/products/treatments/companies/religions/cults and all that prior to giving focus to individual people. And the individual people who we doubtless ought to cover — aside from public individuals/crank "celebrities" — should really be people who ED would have very little interest in covering (e.g. Roger Leir, John Hogue or Daniel Estulin). Like, actual fringe people — not famous, but certainly not involved in internet drama. I mean this in the sense that the Skeptic's Dictionary, or any given issue of Skeptic magazine, mention extremely few of the people mentioned on ED, and vice versa. This, to me, partially makes the difference between an actual skeptical resource and a digital high school "burn book". But maybe that's all just me. I'm not saying, in a practical sense, that an internet drama war couldn't be fought on RW as well as in the ordinary places elsewhere on the web. As evidenced by the stream of new accounts, BoN involvement and troll baiting, this is clearly possible. I'm just saying, let's fucking not. But these are just my two cents. The site doesn't speak for me, and I don't speak for the site. But obviously, RW could be less hypocritical than it has been allowed to be at times (read: in certain portions of mainspace). Let's consider actively moving away from that, even with baby steps. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --JorisEnter (talk) 15:59, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Keep

 * 1) We should keep keep the part about Lolcow Wiki ecause its not wrong. --2d4chanfag (talk) 08:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) The article is not a 'hit piece', it is sourced to all of Joshua Conner Moon's own racist writings. This guy is notable cyber bully and Tump crackpot, and his website Kiwi Farms is well known on the web for its harassment and irrational positions on race and politics.. I understand Joshua wants the page deleted for personal reasons but there is no reason this website should give into his demands. The guy is a notable crank. Anti racist activist (talk) 09:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) Joshua Conner Moon in his own words "Muslims need a good genocide" . This article exposing his racism and internet shenanigans is entirely accurate. The non-missional claim from Moon's friend Owlman is total BS. This is about as on mission as it gets. Nitro Man (talk) 11:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) It is good for people to have understanding of what is out on the internet, both good and bad, that way they can decide for themselves. Roo (talk) 20:12, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, that isn't a bad argument but I disagree that Moon or KF are notable enough to warrant an article. There isn't anything that is particularly missonal about either.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 03:05, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Not missional yet, I understand. Raging lunatics do not have everybody following them in the beginning. It starts slow, and gains steam over many years. Best to expose it early IMO. Like a warning label on L. Ron Hubbard's face, for example. Roo (talk) 16:00, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) It's missional, but obvious sock puppet/troll bait. I think it should be kept but protected at least until it's thoroughly revamped, e.g., as per Fuzzy. Bongolian (talk) 03:44, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) I cut the article to quotes and citations. I autoconfirm-protected it. In its current state it seems missional. 16:42, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Goat
Clearly, this AFD attracts an unusually large number of IPs and brand new accounts. Is it just me, or does anyone else find this just a tiny bit suspicious?--JorisEnter (talk) 15:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The 86.14 BoN and likely many of the throwaways are being made by a prolific sockpuppeteer who has been socking for years on pretty much any wiki he's been on, including this site. He is one of the people quoted in that link Owlman posted and he has been targeting the Living Person this article is about, including harassment of the LP's mother, and is working with a GamerGate harasser called Vordrak, who a mod banned on sight a few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Anglo_Pyramidologist/Archive This is the SPI of him and his brothers (who all live/lived in the same flat so they kept getting caught by CheckUser) which has been going for years, I caught some of them on Wikipedia a few weeks ago trying to spread dox about Wikipedians, and the Functionaries swiftly showed them the door, again. I'm not sure if he is ban evading here (he and his brothers have used multiple accounts here, including BoNs), but he has a 6~ year history of trying to make hit pieces about his internet foes. Lightning Dust (talk) 22:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * What did I say? Joshua is getting his attack dogs to come here. Lighting Dust's last edit was May, 2016; inactive for 9 months then shows up here and posts the same lies Joshua is posting about me because he was sent by Josh (who at Kiwi Farms is telling people to come here and delete his page!) I never "harassed" his mother, that's just another story Josh made up. Its Joshua who targets people, their families and harasses them. Josh tried (but failed) to dox my family, then stole my family photos and smeared us by calling us paedophiles; "Vordrak" is just another victim of Kiwi Farms who Joshua has defamed as a paedophile. Kiwi Farms is a harassment website used to post malicious falsehoods about people - its why Google has de-indexed dozens of their thread URLs after receiving legal complaints about defamation, all my own and Vordrak's URL's are blocked by a court order.86.14.2.77 (talk) 23:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Joshua Conner Moon is a real life paedophile, he even admitted it here on this forum to a girl (this is on archive) and could be used as a source on the article, so Joshua Conner Moon is not only a racist, bigot, white supremacist, Far-right trump supporter, sexist, Islamophobic, transphobic he is also a pedo as well who abuses innocent people with autism and makes up false statements about people to damage their careers. It is entirely on mission to have an article on this guy. The mission of Rationalwiki is "Documenting the full range of crank ideas", Josh is about as crank as it gets. Nitro Man (talk) 01:03, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * In my eyes, Moon is an edgelord, e.g. whatever is offensive to people, he is that. He's just a degenerate on all levels. This really isn't far from what the alt-right is, no?
 * Tangent: In English speak, shotacon is the attraction to male anime children. In Japan, it's just the attraction to male children (shotacon is short for Shōtarō complex). I don't know why English speakers think whacking off to cartoons kids doesn't mean pedophilia. Hell, it's fucking legal in America for Christ sake. 01:48, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

 * This discussion was moved here from Talk:Joshua Conner Moon.


 * http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:Saloon_bar/Archive270#Farewell_then.2C_KiwiFarms
 * http://heatst.com/tech/notorious-forum-kiwi-farms-closed-following-alleged-harassment-of-founders-family/

I'm the ex-sysop from Rationalwiki mentioned on these links, and as the first link also points out - Joshua has harassed other Rationalwiki users. The creator of Joshua Conner Moon article ("Nitro Man") isn't me, but I fully support his edits and I gave him the data on Trans Lifeline. The article is not a hit piece, its just that Joshua has attacked and harassed Rationalwiki sysops, and many other people. His malicious internet trolling has made him infamous and his racism and islamophobia (and targeting of sexual minority groups) justifies the article creation since he's similar to Joshua Bonehill-Paine. There is now an attempt to delete the article, but I think this would be an injustice. The article covers Joshua's harassment of Trans Lifeline, a transgender suicide prevention hotline. One of the co-owner of this hotline showed up at Joshua's home address since Joshua has harassed them with an ongoing smear campaign, as well as doxxing and intimidating them. When one of the co-owners showed up at his address, they were further abused with transphobic comments. Later Joshua went on a radio station to broadcast this abuse. A google search of Joshua Moon's name now shows this article and I believe it should stay in support of all the victims. Joshua of course wants it deleted and is trying to get some of his attack dogs from Kiwi Farms to try to delete it. Joshua spends his existence writing nasty things about people, but as soon as someone writes an accurate article logging his racism and cyberbullying he wants it removed. This would be extremely unfortunate if it is deleted. I can contact Trans Lifeline who are prepared to write a statement in defence of this article.86.14.2.77 (talk) 16:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I've reviewed the article. I think there's a case for something like it to remain here. Right now, the article is prime troll bait. A better format might be that of Richard Spencer: just quote JCM, over and over, without inserting opinion. (Leave no room for concern trolls.) If the references/quotes hold up, this would make it black-and-white clear that the article isn't editorializing -- its subject is just shit. What say you, IP editor? 18:45, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I did edit the page after the AFD was put up. Thoughts? 00:23, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, Fuzzy. I don't see how it's not missional, and we don't need a troll magnet. Bongolian (talk) 03:42, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Olwmangate
How is it a "hit piece" when everything is fully sourced (Joshua Conner Moon is a white nationalist who posted he wants to kill Muslims etc) and other RW sysops were editing it, and approved the page? Also "owlman" just banned Nitro Man (the article creator) for no reason whatsoever.86.14.2.77 (talk) 08:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I banned him because he was trying to get the community to ban a user who hasn't edited since 2015. The user is likely a sock of a person has a vendetta against those who offend him online. (Also, lol, he made an account named Anti racist activist and complimented himself.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 03:05, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Owlman you are a known Kiwi Farms member, likely Josh personally told you to try and delete his article here so please do not pretend to be innocent. You have no recent edits on this website, it is suspicious to say the least your recent behaviour here. You also accusing me of being a sock-puppet which is false. Thank you for revealing yourself though. You support a man who wants to genocide Muslims, and you want to delete a factual page about him? You are not rational. Nitro Man (talk) 11:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Owlman has an older post history, however 2d4chanfag only registered today and most his comments are on this page. Regardless, I always suspected "Owlman" was from Kiwi Farms and recent posts on that forum seem to confirm this; Kiwi Farms boasted it has a Rationalwiki sysop. Ignoring all this pointless drama though - the fact remains Joshua Conner Moon article is not a "hit piece" and it is on mission. You could also add Joshua's support of Alex Jones conspiracy theories and denial of global warming; Joshua is a crank magnet, there's plenty more you can write about his bizarre views, not just his racism.86.14.2.77 (talk) 13:20, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes my master plan to join this wiki in 2015 as a double agent for KF has worked up until now; a BoN with a history of calling for witch hunts has finally found me out. Foiled, I am, at my greatest moment for I planned to prevent Dear Leader, Joshua Moon, from being documented on a site dedicated to debunking pseudoscience.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 03:05, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * OWLMAN IS A SEEKRIT KF AGENT--JorisEnter (talk) 17:30, 21 February 2017 (UTC)