RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive199

Dying is quite unfortunate
Approximately 15 - 25% of people diagnosed with an invasive GAS infection will, unfortunately, die. How unfortunate. A shame, really.--Krej talk 00:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Surely they will all die? And now that I've read that article I'm convinced that I'm one of them. Генгис silverbrain.png 06:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Medics join the general population in using "die" to mean "die specifically of the thing we're talking about". It's probably just a bit of shorthand rather than some cultural aversion to grappling with mortality. Tialaramex (talk) 08:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You don't say? Генгис silverbrain.png 09:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Refutation of RationalWiki's criticisms of Arguments for the Existence of God
Part 1. Not really read this 'cause I ain't no philosopher, but the author (Chris Powell) don't seem to think much of us. Scream!! (talk) 09:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC) In RationalWiki's article on Special Pleading they make the very asinine accusation that Theologians use special pleading in deriving morality from the Bible because they shun gay men (Which is a misrepresentation) and don't follow rules in the Bible like selling daughters into slavery or eschewing shellfish. It is first important to note that the bible doesn't shun Homosexuals, it condemns Homosexual Behavior.
 * Osaka Sun (talk) 10:00, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Conservapedia.org? Генгис silverbrain.png 10:50, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, fair enough. Assume I accept the premise that the cosmological argument (or Kalam argument, even - they're all the same, really, the differences aren't even worth a pedantic quibble) only has a purpose in establishing a "necessary being". After all, a big issue we hit ID advocates with repeatedly is that evolution doesn't explain the origin of life, so this sort of counter-straw-man is something I'm willing to take on board. Assume I accept that. Then where is the part of the argument that explains that it is a "being" in the first place? And why do apologists like William Lane Craig continually use it without further clarification or addition (I don't accept Craig's "because Jesus" line, that's just terrible), and assume that this "being" (after already assuming it is a being) is therefore the specifically Christian God. I can't find this anywhere in the tl;dr at all. Scarlet A.pngsshole 11:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You assume that all of the wonderful arguments for Christianity proove Yahweh as the best god to fill the role of "necessary being"… or you simply take it on faith — it's not the unreasonablest leap. (talk to a) Nihilist  13:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Writer rage
So does anyone else have situations like this? There's a whole series at http://fyeahwriterleopard.tumblr.com


 * Think about day's events; think about how characters would experience events
 * Have characters running around head; wonder what other people think about
 * Character has the name of someone you know; feel weird
 * See someone at party; compare to character and use for influence
 * Have long list of names; none of them sound good
 * Base characters off people you know; use the same names and reassign them
 * Stare at screen running through ideas for an hour; have everything settled after going to bed
 * Create characters; start planning ways to troll future fans
 * Tons of ideas; can't work them into cohesive plot

–Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                         04:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm more of a historical fiction type of person. It's really not that hard to find outrageous and interesting past events and then tweak them to fit your own ideas. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 04:37, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Historical fiction would be an interesting thing to write about. –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                          07:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You know what's frusrating?: not being able to say simple Spanish sounds. How am i supposed to write a conlang with an alveolar trill in it if i can't pronounce it myself? (talk to a) Nihilist  07:25, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That last and second to last bit is so me--DoomTay (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Boston Marathon explosions
[http://deadspin.com/explosions-reported-at-the-boston-marathon-473008941?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow Oh shit. What now.] --Seth Peck (talk) 19:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Very not good. No word as to a cause yet.  Guardian's running a live update here.X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 19:54, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Still expect a lot of speculation like Norway in 2011. But when was the last time you heard of a bombing at a marathon? Osaka Sun (talk) 19:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Bad news, somebody picked up the words controlled explosion on an emergency scanner.--X-Wing-icon.png Jabba de Chops 20:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Just heard a report of 2 dead, 22 wounded. Those numbers could easily rise substantially. DickTurpis (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The news I'm watching has mentioned two explosions and a third (possibly controlled) explosion, and a fire at the JFK Library. Also mentioning lost limbs (bad news for anyone, but significantly for runners).  --Seth Peck (talk) 20:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you might want to reconsider that last comment. From the videos I've seen it appears that spectators were the ones that were injured. Генгис silverbrain.png 20:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Apparently Biden's called it a bombing rather than an explosion, but then again, it is Biden, so&hellip;-- Jabba de Chops 20:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd wager it's pretty unlikely that it isn't a bombing, but of course, we don't know that for certain. DickTurpis (talk) 20:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Law enforcement has just confirmed explosions were from two homemade bombs and the JFK Library fire was unrelated. --Seth Peck (talk) 20:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The Guardian has posted a link to Boston Public Radio. They aren't covering the bombing at the moment but are apparently doing live updates.--X-Wing-icon.png Jabba de Chops 20:19, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Two confirmed dead. Has the IRA or the Taliban claimed responsibilty yet?

Third explosion confirmed to be a controlled explosion by bomb technicians. --Seth Peck (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Two additional explosive devices located (possibly the one(s) under controlled demolition). --Seth Peck (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Witnesses confirm cordite manufacture of bombs (apparently it has a distinctive smell). --Seth Peck (talk) 20:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

A friend has pointed out that today is 'Tax Day'. But why the marathon? Though this might be because it's a large gathering of people with a lot of media coverage. Personally, if it is a bombing, it reminds me why I rather loathe bombers, for they don't seem to care who they hurt. In the end, it's far to early to start laying blame, for their are idiots and assholes on ever political axis. Ravenhull (talk) 20:56, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Latest count: thirty-one dead, two hundred injured in coordinated bombings....ooops, sorry, those aren't the bombing victims we care about. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 20:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * lol'd Occasionaluse (talk) 21:02, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * My vote would be that this was a 'lone wolf' and a US citizen. Acei9 21:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That's where my thoughts are going, but the multiple devices and locations imply this wasn't just one person. I'm also not feeling much political motivation either.  Yeah, it's "Tax Day" but a government building would have been a better target (think Oklahoma and McVay).  Whoever did this is home grown and my money says probably not out to send a message nor take credit.  This was just wanton cruelty and malice. --Tygrehart
 * Makes me think of the bombings at the Alantic Olympics... Ravenhull (talk) 21:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, disgruntled employee then? Sophie  Wilder  21:13, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems really strange location, and poor quality bombs, even for Al-Qaeda. I'd go with lone nut or some other home grown wing-nut fringe. Either way, in such a high profile area they are GOING to get caught. I mean really, Boston Marathon is one of the most publicized events of the year, surely someone is going to get something on camera. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I wonder if terrorists would take credit anyway. Terror would be so much easier and more cost effective. Occasionaluse (talk) 21:20, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * New York Post is saying that a Saudi national is fingered as the suspect. I'm not buying it at the moment, given the paper's track record and the fact that this "fact" hasn't been reported anywhere else -- TechCheese disapprove 21:54, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And bang on the money, the article in the Post was dead wrong. -- TechCheese kvetch 22:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Their source was Fox News, so, yeah. --Seth Peck (talk) 22:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Update, this is getting freaky, the JFK library bomb was in a place where it couldn't harm civvies. That's definitely NOT Al-Qaeda's style: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/live-updates-explosion-at-boston-marathon/ Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:16, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Was that a "bomb"? the fact that it "appears to have started in the mechanical room of new building" screams "construction accident" or "gas leak." If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 21:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, a bomb has been confirmed in the JFK library according to multiple sources. The fire means that the mechanical room would be the most likely place for the explosion which makes no fucking sense if it's Al-Qaeda since no one's going to be in the mechanical room. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:25, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you post some? I'm not finding any confirmed. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 21:36, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, seems it is indeed just a confirmed blast, but the coincidence necessary to believe them unrelated is enormous (a gas main a few blocks away from the site of a terror attack just happened to blow within an hour and a half). Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:42, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And just like that, CNN reports it may have, in fact, been unrelated: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/15/us/boston-marathon-things-we-know/index.html Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Clogs updated. --Seth Peck (talk) 21:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Jeez, these people have an unbelievable persecution complex. Osaka Sun (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Jordanian Al-Qaeda extremist is happy that it happened. Ignorant fuck. Osaka Sun (talk) 22:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Terrible luck - family members from the Sandy Hook massacre were attending the Marathon as VIP guests, and were seated in stands near the explosions. MeMyselfI (talk) 06:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like none of them were injured at least.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 12:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Saudi suspect cleared: Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 23:37, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If the perpetrators don't turn out to be Muslim-influenced, expect to see some interesting backtracking. Osaka Sun (talk) 23:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Page started
Have at it. --Seth Peck (talk) 23:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

UK libel laws to remain fucked up
Sophie Wilder  21:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that's bullshit.... Scarlet A.pngpostate 09:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

So here's some bullshit re: the Boston bombing.
"Another Terror Attack! US bomb kills 30 at Afghan wedding same day as the Boston Marathon Bomb. Oh, sorry -- I always confuse "today" with "11 years ago". If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 02:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Paultards. --Seth Peck (talk) 02:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Way to completely shit on the anti-war movement. Fucking Paultards. --Revolverman (talk) 03:03, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The source is The Daily Mail whose online article is undated. Генгис silverbrain.png 06:44, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * First rule of undated news items: look up the names and places it mentions. Sophie  Wilder  09:39, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * But first, look for subtle clues in the text, like "The United States launched air strikes against Afghanistan last year against the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden." Peter mqzp 09:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Second rule of undated news items: don't source the Daily Mail. Osaka Sun (talk) 10:06, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A sound precautionary principle with far-reaching applicability. Hydrogen and Time (talk) 10:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Isn't that the first rule of all news items? Sophie  Wilder  10:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The second involves NaturalNews - David Gerard (talk) 11:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The third is that social networks behave like rumor mills, not news services. If you heard it on Twitter or Facebook first, check someplace else before repeating it.   14:12, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Didn't you hear they're making a new series of Friends? Scarlet A.pngpostate 22:53, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If you check the [view-source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html#ixzz2QaHCuTuD page source] you can find a create date. But they've also updated it between yesterday and today, so it now says 2002 on it.  --Seth Peck (talk) 20:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

TableTop
Just wondering if anyone is a fan of the Wil Wheaton Geek & Sundry web series, Tabletop? 17:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have never seen it, but I suspect that would be right up my alley. Do you recommend a particular episode? --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 18:14, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * They're all pretty good. They are a nice way to see a game before you spend the money on it.  Plus, there are high production values and most of the guest are good picks.  From the perspective of the guests, I would suggest the Last Night On Earth or Say Anything! episodes.  For gameplay, Pandemic and Gloom are interesting.  18:23, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know that I have seen the Say Anything episode, or just that the game doesn't ring a bell. I kinda liked the Dixit episode.   19:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

youtube christian JasonBurns and AronRa debate
If anyone is interested that great theologian Jason Burns (ATheismExamined) is in a debate with AronRa on the leagueofreason website.http://www.youtube.com/user/AtheismExamined/videos?view=0 and http://www.theleagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11528&start=360. Enjoy. Hamster (talk) 23:06, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What's the point? (talk to a) Nihilist  23:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Package sent to Mississippi Senator containing ricin
What the...? Osaka Sun (talk) 23:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I worry this soon will be a common event (Assassination attempts in general, not just Ricin traps) --Revolverman (talk) 03:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Obviously a false flag operation to discredit liberals. Генгис silverbrain.png 06:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * For a man with a "solidly conservative" voting record, it doesn't take much Google-time to find plenty of places denouncing him as a RINO - so let's not discount right-wing nutters doing it just yet. And after all, being a majority leader, he's the natural target for those too batshit crazy for the Republicans to handle. Still, this sort of thing follows most terrorist attacks as they tend to send other, completely unrelated nutters over the edge to do their own thing. Scarlet A.pngnarchist 07:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like this might be a case where he was just the first to get his, as there are now mulitple reports, including the White House. This does lead to the question, did any get in before?  I hope not. Ravenhull (talk) 16:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Betelnuts
So, today I was browsing the supplement section at the store, and I came across a bottle of pet dewormer whose number one ingredient was (interestingly enough) betelnuts. At first I thought it was just Big Placebo geting away with selling dangerous and ineffective products (I'm not sure what the regulations are for pet supplements), but now I'm wondering if perhaps betelnut isn't toxic/carcinogenic when given to cats or dogs. Is there any information on betelnut toxicity to pets?--Krej talk 05:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if it's toxic per se. It's about dose control. The most convenient way to kill or dislodge intestinal parasites is to eat something poisonous that's poorly absorbed from the gut. The dose for the (smaller) parasite quickly exceeds its tolerance and it is killed or becomes too sick to hold on, whereupon it will get excreted. Meanwhile the dose for the much larger host doesn't exceed a safe level. The over-the-counter medicines for such parasites in humans function the same way. If you were, unaccountably, to swallow handfuls of OTC worm medicine pills at a time you could get sick, so don't do that. All that being said I won't promise Betelnut actually deworms dogs at a dose that won't harm the dog, but the principle isn't unsound. Tialaramex (talk) 08:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * General rule of thumb: if it's potentially harmful, then it's not Big Placebo, because homeopathy doesn't do anything (good OR bad). In fact, it's more likely to be medicine than an herbal remedy.  If it IS harmful, it's not medicine.  --Seth Peck (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

One-way ticket
Would anyone here seriously go on a one-way trip to Mars? At my age it's something that I might consider as I've not got a lot to lose but probably wouldn't meet the fitness criteria. For a young person though it would be either an early death through radiation exposure, starvation/asphyxiation if the life-support systems went wrong, or possibly a very restricted existence as a human mole. Генгис 07:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * *groan* Those people have been periodically on the news since last year. What did they do now, issue another press release?--ZooGuard (talk) 07:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Another recruitment drive for it after no one took up the offer? Scarlet A.pnggnostic 07:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * More like another fundraising drive. AFAIK, they don't suffer from a lack of candidates.--ZooGuard (talk) 08:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Should there be an IQ test to serve in Congress?
Rep. Louie Gohmert (cRetin - Texas) says that Islamic terrorists are trained to act Hispanic.

"Allah.... uuhhh.... taco-bar!" MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 15:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * We get the government we deserve. Theoretically, the voting populace should be intelligent enough to refuse to vote for ignoramuses and lunatics, but here we are. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 16:09, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The idea of getting the government we deserve fills me with despair. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 17:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say that Texas has a huge education problem. Osaka Sun (talk) 17:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Only in it for the gold?
Brian Dunning has plead guilty to wire fraud, "cookie stuffing" done through his websites, presumably including Skeptoid.--ZooGuard (talk) 17:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I see what you did there. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 17:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What an awesome crime, if poorly executed (should have created multiple affiliates under different names) --Seth Peck (talk) 21:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Can we facepalm?
Yes we can!!! What's that phrase Wonkette uses - Shitmuffin?--  Jabba de Chops 19:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Peter Hanson should now, at all times, be referred to as "penis." Osaka Sun (talk) 19:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

So I was in Speech today...
And the two stand-out speeches were "Why you shouldn't try fad diets" and "Why the scientific evidence supports creation". Apparently 3/4 of my class is religious, 1/2 believe in creationism; and most of the speech was "this is why science is wrong", which is quite sad because I like this guy and had hoped he might have tried to pull out a "why creationism is therefor right". This goes along with another friends experience in Geology, where on the first day a fundy stood up and announced "im a christian & creationist", and then the lecture that day was "Why The flood is wrong and how it led to us finding out real science"--MikallakiM 16:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If those people ever got as far as "this is therefore why creationism is right" we'd have considerably different experiences in these perpetual online "debates". Scarlet A.pngmoral 23:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Spoiler template
Does RW have any template that can be used to hide these quiz answers? I know we have one for quotes in foreign languages...--Krej talk 00:36, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Ehrenstein made censor a little while ago&mdash;that might work. Or are you thinking something collapseable? Peter mqzp 01:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah, I'd prefer a collapsible one. I can use the censor template if there isn't any, though.--Krej talk 01:46, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well there's collapse, but you might want to take the code of it (rather than using the template itself) so that you can change the header from "this discussion has been closed" to something more relevant. Peter mqzp 01:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've seen forums use censor tags that work the same way for spoilers. –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                          02:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The collapse template works. Thanks!--Krej talk 06:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I use > this < (select to see). Of course it worketh not on other background colours. Scream!! (talk) 07:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The collapse template does run on a script, so if someone has that disabled it won't work. Though I wonder how people operate the interent with javascript disabled these days... Scarlet A.pngpathetic 23:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You go "hmm, why isn't this working? Oh, right." Then you tell noscript to allow scripts on that page. Peter mqzp 23:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Vector skins
I have a prototype of a blue skin here: https://code.google.com/p/mw-vectorblue/source/browse/

It's not done yet, but I have the basic appearance done. There's still work that needs to be done on the tabs at the top. If anyone wants commit access, just send me a Google account email address.

I'll work on a few other basic color variants also. By having a separate skin, we can allow users to pick their own skin while having a separate default skin for the wiki. –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                         02:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Please put it on Github. [[file:Nuttysig.svg|68px|link=User:Nutty Roux|Nutty Roux]]100x100 anarchy symbol.svg 06:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that this is better than Google Code? –Nazis are bad and I don't like them Deadhorse.gif 20:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Seen these yet guys?
http://bostonconspiracy.com/

And

http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/

--Revolverman (talk) 02:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Whoever did that, kudos. The Invisible Man  I spoke to Him   04:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Very classy. Congrats to whichever anonymous person(s) were involved for their quick thinking. VOX  HUMANA  05:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I get the message but covering all eventualities will take a lot more than 2 domain names. Генгис silverbrain.png 07:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Waco explosion
This better just be a tragic error, because this week is getting weirder and weirder. Osaka Sun (talk) 02:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ’Cos the Waco siege ended on April 19, 20 years ago. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A fire in a fertilizer plant causes massive explosion. Funny that. The bit about the Waco siege in that article seemed to be tacked on at the end to be unduly sensational. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear Whoever-is-in-charge-of-these-things: Please stop. We need a break. Can we have something nice happen this week? MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 10:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * See below. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 10:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Is it okay to be amused by the fact the guy charged with sending the ricin is an Elvis impersonator? MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 13:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If it isn't, then I'll join you in being a person whose behaviour is not OK :) Hydrogen and Time (talk) 13:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If he writes to say he's sorry, will the letters keep coming back? Sophie  Wilder  14:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The White House, DC Address unknown. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 14:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

The highlights of the final gay marriage debate in New Zealand
We've already posted two speeches from right-wing MPs on WIGO:World (one already in an essay), but you have to see these others:


 * National Party - Paul Hutchison and Tau Henare


 * ACT (wingnut) Party - John Banks


 * Maori Party - Te Ururoa Flavell


 * Green Party - Kevin Hague and Mojo Mahers

It may be the first time I've heard a conservative mock an anti-gay politician for pandering to rednecks. Osaka Sun (talk) 07:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Our political system is a little more reasonable than the stereotypical "reality has a liberal bias, because the right is crazy." I'm surprised it took this long, really. Peter mqzp 07:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The vote was 77-44. To be honest I am surprised it was as close as that.DamoHi 09:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

BBC World Service, what the fuck are you thinking?
So I have bad insomnia, and I end up listening to a lot of BBC World Service on my local NPR affiliate at all hours of the night. Last night/early this morning, they were covering the Waco disaster pretty closely, with some decent interviews with eyewitnesses, etc. And they also featured an analysis by a guy whose name I can't remember but who was identified as working for "Breibart News." If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 15:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello all
I hate to distract from the Boston brouhaha, but I'm back. Also, how the christ fucking hell do we not already have an article on Anita Sarkeesian? I demand an explanation!--Token Conservative (talk) 00:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Infowars videos
I bet you guys probably see videos ten times more laughable and ridiculous than this on a daily basis, but I seriously cannot stop laughing at this video. It's just that stupid. --P3A58NT86 03:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You know, at times it would be pleasing to think that our government was controlled by an all-powerful entity. At least then it would have an excuse for how badly its run at times. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 04:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The government needs to take the people who faked the moon landing and organised 9/11, and transfer them onto useful projects. Obviously those are the only people working for the government who are actually competent. VOX  HUMANA  04:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dreamhost VPS hosting

 * http://dreamhost.com/servers/vps/

Does anyone know if this is a good hosting service? Also, I'm wondering how good their basic VPS hosting option is. It's $15/month for unlimited storage, bandwidth, MySQL databases, and 300 MB of memory. Since I'm still learning about managing websites (and getting better) I'm not sure how to evaluate that. I get a decent number of readers to my websites, but not a huge number. Would 300 MB be enough, and how big a website would that be able to work for? –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                         03:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That looks like just another cheap, low-quality VPS that claims something it can't provide (unlimited storage and data) I recommend Linode.
 * With a "decent number" of visitors, especially if you're using MySQL, i doubt 300MB is going to work well. (talk to a) Nihilist  04:21, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Linode? I would say steer clear of Linode, whatever their merits otherwise, until some clarity about this recent break-in exists. Did Linode really try to bribe bad guys to say nothing to their customers about a successful break-in that compromised financial data? Did they then downplay that same break-in as only a "possible" threat to passwords? If not why does some guy have encrypted pastebins of sensitive information that seems to be from Linode?
 * But yes, Dreamhost is very cheap, mostly hosting rather than private servers. You get what you pay for. It really does depend what "a decent number" of readers is and also what your sites do. 300MB will stretch a lot further running PHP (spit) than Java for example. The stuff about "unlimited" is just the result of being dominated by competitive claims for an aspect of the service that costs essentially nothing per user. If the mean disk used is 450MB per user, and you advertise 2GB storage, your competitor will advertise 4GB. And why not? The average disk used will remain at 450MB anyway. For a while Dreamhost actually ran a promotion where the maximum size reduced every day or something, from a ridiculously high number to a different smaller ridiculously high number as a joke, I guess they got tired of that and just wrote unlimited. Frankly, you really won't "run out" of disk space, or bandwidth, your site will start to be annoyingly slow long before either of those happens and your users will go somewhere else.
 * Finally, I would beware of stepping up to VPS unless you're confident you're just getting too big for virtual hosting and either you're happy to spend a bunch of time administering the private server, applying security fixes, doing housekeeping and so on, or you have the finances to hire somebody competent to do that for you. On the virtual host a lot of the security is taken care of by the people who own the host and for VPS that isn't true any more. Since you're also growing you will attract more bad guys, and you need to stay a step ahead of them. Tialaramex (talk) 09:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

RationalWiki is a very happy customer of Linode. Your CPU and memory are not overcommitted. The systems basically work and basically stay up. If you sign up with this referrer link then the RationalWiki Foundation gets a few pennies back. I am also using Rackspace (my private stuff is camped out on a friend's server) and they offer the same sort of deals as Linode, buuuuuut they really suck - e.g. most of their IPs are in the blackhole lists, so it's very difficult to send email from your Rackspace VM. So there are actually differences between virtual server providers, and Linode are great. Questions about the recent breakin don't change my opinion much - I still heartily recommend them.

Anyone selling "unlimited" anything is lying. I know many reasonably happy Dreamhost customers, but they're all doing tiny tiny hobby things. The Linode/Rackspace tier sell you specific amounts of stuff and you know what you're buying. Sorta pricey for a private hobby server, but if you were doing anything even slightly commercial it'd be very good.

As Tialaramex notes, you do need to be comfortable with being completely your own sysadmin - what you get is a Linux VM (probably Ubuntu 12.04) with nothing. If you're running a MediaWiki, you really really really have to put a Squid or Varnish in front or have it fall over every time you have the slightest traffic. What's it for? - David Gerard (talk) 15:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I realize that "unlimited" is really just marketing, and really what it's saying is that they're betting that you aren't going to get ahead of what they can provide.  Do you know how much traffic 1 GB of ram and 2 TB of bandwidth would last for?  If I don't go with VPS for now, I might go to Dreamhost shared hosting if they provide good shared hosting service.  Goddady has far too many problems, and their solutions are either to tell you that it's a scripting problem and they can't help, or what you want to do doesn't work on shared hosting and you need to go to VPS or dedicated.  I've also been having a problem where I can't log in or connect to MySQL databases I setup manually, and have to use sqlite or an autoinstaller, which are terrible and I hate.  I've even written an article on MediaWiki.org telling people not to use them because of their foulups and their lack of options during the installation.


 * The main thing that I'm doing is setting up a series of 40k wikis, in a few languages and separate wikis for merging the fanfiction with official background. The English main wiki is the only one that is really active though.  I've made a few side websites to support it, including a coppermine image gallery and a widget and template to thumbnail pictures on the wiki as if they were uploaded to it, and a small Wordpress powered social networking site since SocialProfile didn't work out and MW isn't great for community interaction.


 * Out of curiosity, how long do you think this guy's wiki hosting service will last? http://tv-wiki.com/wiki/TVwiki


 * –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                         18:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * RW has (I'm going by vague memory here, not diving into the assorted control panels etc) something like 1800GB/month and we don't come close to using it. You'll be fine for the moment. Godaddy is shitful and Dreamhost would be better - though sometimes "go up a level" is the right answer. (But then I'm a sysadmin and a control addict, and I want to control the horizontal and the vertical. YMMV.)
 * An email to mediawiki-l, or a post on mwusers.com, asking about low-traffic fan-stuff hosting options might be productive. Set out a precis of what you've written here.
 * No idea how TVwiki will do. Looks like he's trying to duplicate Wikia - but Wikia have all the eyegouging ads because this stuff costs money to do right if it's at all popular - David Gerard (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll probably move to Dreamhost shared hosting and then to Linode with their basic version. The thing I was wondering about with the hosting service has to do with the fact that it's just some kid's hosting service on an "unlimited" shared hosting account.  With the fact that the new Wikkii admins are apparently AWOL since the transfer of ownership to Gunggo, I might start a wiki hosting service on a VPS server at some point, and use advertising to pay for it.  I'll probably use Google Adsense, offer to manually include ads in my own ad banner (which could be used by wikis on the service, possibly for a reduced fee), and sell promotional methods to the owners of various wikis.  The real issue would be finding a webhost that wouldn't cancel the entire service if someone uploaded objectionable content to one of the wikis.  I'd also like to do what Wikkii offered, which included the ability to request an FTP account and manage the files and database of your own wiki like a shared hosting service.  I imagine that would require a massive amount of security though, and I'm not sure I'd be able to provide that.  –Nazis are bad and I don't like them Deadhorse.gif 05:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Human Anatomy and Physiology project
I was a bit late to the topic choosing party, and thus lost my ideas to other people. Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a high school honors level anatomy and physiology research project?--P3A58NT86 15:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you go to a school run by uptight Christians in an uptight Christian county in an uptight Christian state? If so, consider doing something focused on sexuality and reproduction. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 15:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * no, nothing like that, but thanks! If that were the case, I'd definitely do that--P3A58NT86 15:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Four words: "Does size really matter?" MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 15:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * My older brother did his high school research project on "which is healthier for you: Twinkies or Ho Hos?"  16:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * How much more is there to such a project than looking at the nutrition labels? (talk to a) Nihilist  19:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

ATP reacts with NTP to form NSDAP. You can't explain that. I accidentally bio-chemistry and it didn't make any sense. –Inquisitor Sasha (Talk | contribs | block)                         05:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I might just have to be an asshole and do it on human evolution.--P3A58NT86 21:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Glaswegians --
I will be in your fine city for a conference next month. Looking for recommendations re: cheap food, one excellent "splurge a little bit" dinner, and a pub where they fucking well know how to pour a pint of Guinness (or a decent local stout). Will also be making a day trip to Edinburgh, so same there. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 21:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * In Edinburgh you'll need to go to The Baked Potato Shop. And stop people in the street and ask if they're Phantom Hoover. Where did he go? Sophie  Wilder  02:40, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Depends on your taste, but in Edinburgh I can thoroughly recommend Cafe Royale (ignore the restaurant and eat in the bar) or you could try Tom Kitchin's new gaff The Scran and Scallie for pubs - not been there for a while, but the Oxford used to be a decent boozer, or The World's End. Worm (talk) 10:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * In Glasgow you might want to look for the Babbity Bowster, Blackfriars Street, in the east of the city centre, somewhere between George Square and Glasgow Green. They used to serve the best of the local Scottish cuisine when I lived there. Not too expensive either, back then, but really great food. However, you might need to reserve a table in advance.
 * For a good night out there are a few nice pubs in the eastern parts of the city centre around the Merchant Square. King Tut’s Wah Wah Hut (272a Saint Vincent Street) or The Scotia Bar are good for life music as is the Sharkeys on Ballater Street (in the Gorbals on other side of the Clyde), where the locals and Irish people meet to join in in folk sessions.
 * If you are there for a weekend do not miss the Barras and have a pint at the Barrowland Ballrooms. Check out "The List", also available from paperstand around the city, for Jazz concerts or whateveryouareupto.
 * Posher restaurants and pubs you will find around George Square, on Buchanan Street or in the West End near Glasgow Uni. Stouts, ales, lagers or Guiness are served in most of them but strictly stay away from Irn Bru... Great city all in all, most people tend not to agree. :-( - 217.255.31.39 (talk) 17:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh and how could I have forgotten? In both Edinburgh and Glasgow, if you like Indian then I can heartily recommend Mother India's Cafe - like Indian tapas. Superb food, good prices, great staff. Well worth it. Worm (talk) 08:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Soldier "Illegally" Disarmed
Stumbled upon a guy who didn't take having his guns actually taken away real well. He set up a legal defense fund. I don't know what it says about whom that the video has more likes than dislikes and the fund went over the initial goal.--DoomTay (talk) 23:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd rather get all the details before I pass judgement on what happened. As far as I can see, and know about the law in texas, the Officer was in the wrong. --Revolverman (talk) 23:27, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * But I hate uppity little shits like that. They always come across as complete dicks. Police usually try to explain what they're doing but always get shouted over by these amateur legal eagles. If you haven't actually done anything wrong, just shut the fuck up and listen, then have a calm chat, and you'll depart on good terms with no harm done. It's a million times easier than screaming "I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!" and that, because frankly you probably don't know your rights, you've just cribbed them off shitty cop shows that are almost certainly wrong. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>pathetic 23:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, without a doubt, he made his own hell, but the law is the law. --Revolverman (talk) 23:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Since there was no military context to this incident, I really don't see what the "Active Duty Soldier" label has to do with the price of fish.  00:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * In the to do archives there's a request for an article on military worship hysteria. We could probably write something on that. Osaka Sun (talk) 00:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * One comment from the funding page brought up how this soldier seemed to have been stalking someone and that the guy probably didn't deserve his Bronze Star, then Graham gave a rebuttal. Also, one cop claimed that he is "except from the law" in the video--DoomTay (talk) 21:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, this seems to be pretty much somewhat rational motives covered up by irrational (and loud) behavior, which kinda reminds me of my own dad--DoomTay (talk) 13:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Has anyone heard of "Gunggo?"
I was doing a lot of work for the free wiki hosting service Wikkii, and I got a lot started, including collaborating on a community wiki, and then the ownership was transfered from the guy who owned it to a company called "Gunggo." They're apparently a company in Canada. Other than that, we don't know a lot. They've been completely AWOL, and we've tried to contact them many times, especially because there was a month long outage with the service where it was completely offline, and a lot of people assumed that their wikis had been completely lost. The wikis using the auto setup MW extension don't have any way of being backed up, other than by using a very basic setup I created that uses a createbox that automatically adds every page created from it to the Data category. It doesn't do anything about people who don't use the create box or who remove the category after creation. It also really can't be applied once a wiki has been started, except maybe by adding the category to every template and hoping that works. Anyway, a lot of us are fearing that the owners of Wikkii have gone completely AWOL, and that it's only a matter of time before it goes down for good. –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 05:51, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

WHAT. THE. FUCK?
What the hell is going on? I'm sitting in Sydney on a sunny Friday afternoon and my PC has (metaphorically) just exploded with news of multiple gunfights in Boston, mysterious packages being dropped on roadways, cops getting shot, suspects being detained, suspects not being detained, and just general carnage. Even allowing for misinformation, things do seem to be fairly insane at the moment. VOX HUMANA  05:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's probably global warming. (talk to a) Nihilist  05:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Shooting in Boston was related to an armed robbery, if you were referring to the MIT shooting. Unfortunately, not all that uncommon for the city. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 05:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Chill out, it's not even on the front page on most news websites. It could be related to the bombers. Osaka Sun (talk) 05:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's on the front page of every site I check - Sydney Morning Herald, NY Times, Guardian. Of course, the remote possibility that it is somehow connected to the bombing is probably what is driving the editors into a frenzy. As Swing says, this might actually just be a normal night in Boston. VOX  HUMANA  06:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, they've got one suspect and Boston Police says there's "active event" in Watertown.


 * Still, for all the talk from the Internet about avoiding hysteria (mixed in with all the Alex Jones false flag conspiracies about police wanting to create a state of fear), people seriously don't listen to their own advice. This is not the apocalypse, the city isn't collapsing. Osaka Sun (talk) 06:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * And dear old Kendoll thinks animated chickens are much more newsworthy Ghost (talk) 07:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Just shows that at 50 years old Ken is still a child. Steven Kavanagh (talk) 07:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The Boston Globe is reporting a bombing suspect is in custody after the firefight at Watertown after the shooting at MIT. I think. This is bloody confusing. The Invisible Man <sup style="font-style:italic">I spoke to Him   07:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

There's an online scanner which I've been listening to for the past few hours. In short, they hijacked a Mercedes SUV, drove in a pursuit into Watertown (near Boston) and then had a shootout with police. They threw a bomb at police (which failed since it didn't travel very far), but one officer was injured (either by gunshots or an IED). One suspect was injured and taken to hospital (a code black was called, suggesting he died) and the other possibly hijacked a state trooper SUV which then crashed before fleeing into the backyards of people. Some poor bloke coming home was ordered to strip naked at gunpoint, but was later released.

The last couple of hours has been police setting up a perimeter, raiding a house that turned out to be empty and engineers conducting controlled detonations of a number of explosive devices. Recently there was a foot pursuit out of suburbia into a commercial zone, where they are currently using dogs.

The police dispatcher confirmed the outstanding suspect is "white hat" from the bombing, and named the suspect taken to hospital as Mike Mulugeta (born in '91 or '92). The other suspect was allegedly named while I wasn't listening, I won't post his name but it was a person who went missing a couple of weeks ago around the same time some explosives were found near Boston. RyanC (talk) 07:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This played out alot faster then I suspected it would. --Revolverman (talk) 07:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Mulugeta is an Ethiopian surname, not Middle Eastern. The other guy's is (supposedly) Indian. Osaka Sun (talk) 08:05, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Videos are starting to pop up on youtube of the gunfight, also this https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325132600161234944/photo/1 --Revolverman (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Here's the live Reuters feed. Osaka Sun (talk) 08:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The other suspect is this guy Sunil Tripathi. He had been listed as missing since March 16 this year. MeMyselfI (talk) 08:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a strong gut feeling this is more a Columbine style incident than religiously/politically motivated terrorism, not really based on any evidence but just reports that both suspects were depressed etc. If people aren't listening to scanner, they're surrounding a house where scout units found a box with wires coming from it. RyanC (talk) 08:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you mind posting a link to the scanner? The Invisible Man <sup style="font-style:italic">I spoke to Him   08:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Boston local news live TV feed - http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive VOX  HUMANA  08:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's a scanner: Don't know if it's the same one. Peter mqzp 08:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ^ Yups, 80,000 listening and growing... RyanC (talk) 08:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * How on earth do you get it to work? --Revolverman (talk) 08:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Do US law enforcement personnel actually have encrypted radio and they're just not supposed to use it for routine stuff, or is this one of those crazy situations where somebody said "No, no, the police have to have one arm tied behind their back so that the crime boss who funded my electoral campaign, uh, I mean, the ordinary law-abiding citizen, knows what they're doing. Recording it for evidence after the fact isn't enough" ?
 * Presumably the FBI at least has an encrypted channel, but you never know... Peter mqzp 08:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * (EC)Have you tried hard refresh/allowing javascript? I had to do that the first time I tried loading the page, as flash crashed on me. I think there are other players available if you remove the "/web" from the URL. Peter mqzp 08:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Refreshing helped, thanks. --Revolverman (talk) 08:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

<-- Most of the cops changed to an encrypted channel after the perimeter was set up, this channel seems to be used to communicate between the different agencies. There's a lot of stuff which is referenced which isn't mentioned on this channel. It's very quiet for a major operation.

Yeah just keep refreshing until you get on. There is another site mirroring it but I've lost the link. RyanC (talk) 08:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Entirely false flag situation setup by CIA to cover tracks Ghost (talk) 08:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Did I just hear them bringing in National Guard units? --Revolverman (talk) 08:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * National Guard, ATF, Homeland Security and god knows how many other units have been there for ages. RyanC (talk) 08:48, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ATF and HS are law enforcement though, National Guard is one step below sending US military into an area. --Revolverman (talk) 08:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * According to what I just heard on CNN, they believe they killed one of the Boston Bombing suspects while another got away. CNN also says that a third person is in custody and might be related. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 08:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * 3rd person? --Revolverman (talk) 08:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Turns out to have been CNN jumping the gun. The alleged "3rd person" was the first suspect, whom they captured but who died of wounds sustained in a gun battle with the cops. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 09:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Andy headline - If more people had guns this would never happen and suspects would already by apprehended Ghost (talk) 08:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Just wait til he finds out that suspect #1 clocked up 172 hours on Call of Duty... RyanC (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Will reddit become Best of the Public ? lolz Ghost (talk) 09:04, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

NBC says both suspects are not American born, have been here for a year with military training overseas. would debunk missing brown student. - Deep cover operatives will say the right. Ghost (talk) 09:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If that's true, that makes even less sense. The bombing looks amateurish and Al Qaeda would've been bragging all over the place by now.  What other organization could you think of? Osaka Sun (talk) 09:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Apparently Seth Mnookin is from around there (he got quoted by the BBC). Learn something new every day... Peter mqzp 10:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Is this a joke?
Chechnya? Osaka Sun (talk) 10:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That was a surprise, yeah. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 10:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * CBS is saying they could also be Turks. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 10:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Why Turks? Kurds hate ethnic Turks, so they'd be bombing Istanbul. Anatolian Turks are otherwise pretty mild - be like getting attacked by Belgians. VOX  HUMANA  11:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * His name is Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev. Osaka Sun (talk) 11:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well that's neither a Turkish or a Kurdish name... my Turkish wife is very relieved. VOX  HUMANA  11:09, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm also seeing reports that they're brothers.
 * Reading a bit about the condition of the dead one -- I think the technical term is "hamburger". MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 11:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So what happened to the Ethiopian and the Indian? Also folks, please don't live-blog stuff like this on WIGO-World. Wait until there is some sort of closure. It's ridiculous to have voting on something that is continually changing. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 11:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

This is effectively confirmed, and a Facebook account of him holding a machine gun just got deleted.

It's the first time Chechnyan militants have targeted the West instead of Russia. It also factors Islam right back into the picture, though this story has evolved so much in the past few hours I'm just going to step back for a while. Osaka Sun (talk) 12:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Not likely - they've been in the US for 12-13 years. CBS just played an interview with their uncle - both arrived as children with their parents in 2000 or 2001. VOX  HUMANA  12:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "It's the first time Chechnyan militants have targeted the West instead of Russia." Is there any evidence that these guys are political, nad not just violent video-game playing sociopaths? If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 14:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "An immigrant student -- allegedly into violent video games -- apparently led the Boston Marathon massacre." so. Video games apparently. StarFish (talk) 15:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The video games thing is being mentioned here only as a form of parody, right? EnlightenmentLiberal (talk) 21:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. Osaka Sun (talk) 23:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

CNN Reporter
So looks like the may have found him, they heard some gunshots or something. Then the CNN reporter pipes in with "There may have been some shots, I heard it, but I am only an 'ear-witness' to what I just heard". Idiot. Acei9 23:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's him Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 23:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Mmm, is this going to end up as a propaganda disaster?
The bombing suspect is not going to be read his Miranda rights.-- Jabba de Chops 18:05, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Americans have been incredibly complacent about giving up their civil and constitutional rights in the name of security theater for over a decade now, especially where foreigners/brown people/Muslims/people from countries they can't find on a map are concerned (and the fact that this kid is a US citizen is totally irrelevant now. He's a Czech Chechen Muslim, that's what counts...). The usual voices from the left will raise a stink. But nobody of note will pay much attention. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 18:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's more the case that, if the sources are right and this is AP we are talking about, the status they've given him ends in 48 hours. Guy's described as being in serious condition so that probably means heavy duty pain relief so he's not going to be that lucid during the next two days, so what the hell is 48 hours going to give the interrogators.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 18:25, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Suspect may never recover
It looks like Tsarnaev may be unable to ever recover to the point that he won't ever be able to be questioned. Makes you wonder if it's worth putting in prison if he's be rendered so quadriplegic that he can never even talk again. --Revolverman (talk) 20:28, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If he can't communicate because he's no longer capable of understanding that's going to throw a trial out the window, at least in civilian courts. I'd hate to think what the authorities are going to come up with to get around that problem.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 21:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like he's talking, or at least able to. Peter mqzp 05:14, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A victory for civil rights
The suspect will not be treated as an enemy combatant and will enjoy all of the protections due to him as a citizen. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 17:19, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Vengeance Problems
Well, if my FB feed is any indication, this guy better pray he's tried in Massachusetts state court, rather than Federal, so there's no chance for the death penalty. It's sad that the vengeance fetish of some parts of the population means that prison is probably the safest place for him at this point. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 01:18, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * He'll face terrorism charges, so it'll probably be federal. Still, if he's smart he'll blame it all on his brother. If he can sell that he might even see daylight again before he dies. DickTurpis (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So as terrorism is legally defined, is the relationship between section 5 subsections i and ii an "and" or an "or"? Because if it's an "and" AND he can prove he did not intend to "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping" -- ie, if this was not political, but just done for kicks, then it's not terrorism. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 03:45, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Or," judging by the end of section ii. Peter mqzp 03:50, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is the standard way (modern) legislation is written. Options written out as (a) (b) (c) or (d) always means any of the four whereas (a) (b) (c) and (d) means all four together. So to be convicted based on this definition the prosecution must show 5A, 5C and one or more of 5B(i) through 5B(iii). Looks sound. Tialaramex (talk) 11:56, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 12:02, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What's the penalty in the US for killing policemen? Is it the same as for killing a remember of the public or is it harsher?--Bob"I think you'll find it's more complicated than that." 07:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it varies from state to state. Word is that they might try this as a federal case, which puts the death penalty on the table (which is unfortunate, because Mass. is not a death penalty state...). If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 22:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Killing an officer in the line of duty is an automatic 1st degree murder in Canada. --Revolverman (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Do any US states have something equivalent to the sentence Norway gave Breivik? There's a fixed tariff and then a presumption that you'll be held indefinitely unless/ until you're safe to release. Or does the US just have a "let them rot" indefinite life sentence of the sort that keeps making the ECHR frown at countries like the UK that use it? Tialaramex (talk) 02:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There can be a chance for parole on a "life sentence" that allows for a convict to leave prison after some fixed amount of time -- or the parole board can deny parole every so many years. I'm pretty sure, as my pastor noted in this morning's sermon about compassion, that this man will never again experience freedom. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 03:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Why is vengeance bad though? Sen (talk) 00:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Compassion is better. Do you want to be this guy?] If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 01:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

And, in other news...
Boy Scouts lift ban on gays. At least for scouts, not scoutmasters. Which, let's face it, was about the best we could expect. DickTurpis (talk) 01:45, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course, that would be openly gay. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 06:47, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Atheists still banned on every level though. --Tweenk (talk) 02:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Kepler 62
So, apparently some exoplants have been found. Can the star be seen with the naked eye? I haven't been able to find out whether it can.--Krej talk 02:27, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia says that it has an apparent magnitude of +13.8, so no, unfortunately. It's also about 1200 light years away, so that's understandable. Peter mqzp 02:39, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks.--Krej talk 03:18, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What? They've found plants? Are they triffids? <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 06:42, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Weren't triffids a product of earth-based genetic jiggery-pokery? Imbored (talk) 17:34, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The original story doesn't say, the protagonist offers his theory that it was "a series of ingenious biological meddlings" but he's not an omniscient narrator and doesn't really have much justification for such an opinion. Adaptations vary, there are versions where it's clearly the Russians, up to something, because they're from that cold war era when everything was the Russians. At least one movie specifically has the Triffids arrive from space. Some versions coalesce the arrival of Triffids with the Great Blinding that in the novel happens quite some time later. Modern genetic engineering didn't exist when Wyndham wrote the novel, DNA was known but nobody had started doing stuff with it and so it's definitely possible to interpret the sudden appearance of Triffids, in the novel and some adaptations, as the landing of a hostile alien lifeform if you're so inclined. Tialaramex (talk) 14:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

How soon after the first encounter with sentient plants will the word 'triffids' be banned (and there will be a thriving black-market trade in DVDs of 'certain gardening activities'? 171.33.222.26 (talk) 15:09, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Various things
From facebook, this, this, this, and this seemed relevant to the site. Busy/indifferent, or I'd figure something out myself.--Token Conservative (talk) 04:23, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * "Water is a food, not a right, and should be privatized"... Capitalism taken to its logical extreme I guess. Oxygen can't be far behind. VOX  HUMANA  05:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I wonder what he thinks is a "right" then. (Aside from guns, that is.) Peter mqzp 06:15, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Property. All other rights would derive from that. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 13:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing to say about the pictures?--Token Conservative (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Yup"; "Facile"; "No shit." If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 16:03, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that wonderful contribution. Now maybe you could consider finding some place to put them? You know, since that was the whole fucking point.--Token Conservative (talk) 19:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * They're already put somewhere -- on Facebook, where lame infographics go to die. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 19:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Libertarianism taken to its logical extreme I guess." -- Fixed. EnlightenmentLiberal (talk) 21:44, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Extreme capitalism is the foundation of libertarianism. (talk to a) Nihilist  14:16, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Capitalism is free markets, as described by your common econ 101 class and by Adam Smith, and by economists at large AFAIK. And given that no government interference quickly leads to no free markets, I think it's safe to say that it's inaccurate to conflate capitalism and libertarianism. There's a reason they needed new words, libertarian, laissez-faire, and that's because capitalism doesn't mean what they want it to mean. EnlightenmentLiberal (talk) 22:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Laissez-faire capitalism is the economic side of libertarianism. However, capitalism itself is not, necessarily, free trade. That's a relatively recent notion. While Adam Smith was speaking out against mercantilism, many considered, for instance, imperialism as being the final stage of capitalism, despite the fact that in some cases this proved to be the antithesis of free trade. I've always been taught that capitalism is, at its heart, private ownership of the means of production. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 23:00, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, the Adam Smith who actually wrote about free markets and laissez-faire isn't the same guy that free-market fundamentalists love to go on and on about. The Adam Smith who wrote Wealth of Nations believed that the state should play a whole host of economic roles -- providing and maintaining public facilities, protect a variety of workers' rights, protect fledgling industries, cap interest rates, patents, establish and enforce educational norms, and provide public amusements/culture. Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 23:06, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well it's understandable. Smith, along with Bentham, were two of the major contributors to the middle-class notion of liberalism that dominated Britain during the Victorian age. So it's only natural when looking back on history that people might get the idea that Smith was an extreme free-market kind of guy because the way in which his ideas were applied. On an aside though, yes, people generally suck when it comes to taking historical texts and people out of context, on all sides of the political spectrum. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 23:13, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

In economic terms "free market" means that all prices (goods and services, but also labor) are at the point where supply = demand (called "equilibrium"), which requires that no one acting in the market can charge more or less for a good or service then the equilibrium price. Privatizing or nationalizing a good or service may create or destroy a free market, leave a non-free market non-free, or leave a free market free. It's frankly impossible to know until after you've already done it. --Token Conservative (talk) 04:26, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And some people think that free markets are incompatible with capitalism. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 04:56, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Are we getting into the various strands of anarchism and how they relate to capitalism? Because that could get rather messy if you wanted to branch off into syndicalism or, if you're feeling REALLY adventurous, the wonderfully comical world of anarcho-capitalism (hell, even Ayn Rand wasn't touching that one). Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 05:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No, my point was that you can argue over the definition of "capitalism" 'til the cows come home, but it won't make a bit of difference. Also, Wittgenstein! Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 05:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Awww, I wanted to discuss anarchy :( Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 05:33, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Laptop/Desktop problems
So, A while back something happened to my laptops keyboard that caused it to only sometimes read input of the E,3, " ", f3/4 and possibly other keys, and after sending it in to get repaired (amongst a issue with my touchpads buttons) i got it back with no fix on the keyboard and my wireless not properly reattached, which has effectively crippled how useful my laptop is to me. However, because its the middle of the semester and i needed my laptop, I've not yet sent it in. Well, in march the plastic part around the screens hinge broke apart suddenly, leaving me with half a attached monitor; again i adapted since i still needed my laptop and it was a liveable issue. Well, on sunday the other hinge finally broke apart as well, leaving me with no actual way to keep my monitor open (i've attached my laptop to my desktops wireless keyboard/mouse and monitor). After finals next week i plan to send it in to get the hinges, keyboard, audio jack (missing the holder part around the edge), possible issue with my USB ports & a battery replacement, and my worry/sorta-hope is that they' just whole-sale replace my entire laptop. What are the likely outcomes of all this

to compound it all; a bit ago my desktop was accidentally depowered, and since then it's had an issue where it will suddenly freeze, sometimes minutes after start up sometimes hours later, and i've not deterined any real cause. any ideas? --MikallakiM 03:32, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Is the lappy on warranty/even worth sinking all of that cash into? Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 03:54, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Laptops on warranty for another year, and i'd say so because despite my whining about it's weakish graphics card, its overall pretty decent for a $500.--MikallakiM 04:00, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * With so many physical issues the supplier may contend that you haven't taken due care with it. Do you just chuck it in your schoolbag with your books and other stuff or do you use a padded compartment/sleeve and put the power brick in a separate pocket? I rely on my laptop as a critical tool for work and make sure it is well looked after so that it really bugs me that I need to take it I out of its case when I go through airport security as it makes it temporarily vulnerable. The only time I've ever had physical damage is when it has been dropped or knocked. As for keyboards, glasses of wine or cups of coffee have been the major culprits. I had a disaster a couple of years ago when both my laptop and netbook died within days of each other on a job in Russia. When I got a replacement Dell I paid for next-business day replacement so I wouldn't be without a laptop for any length of time. As for your desktop  (I'm assuming a Windows PC) freezes are usually drivers or dlls. Do you have a system restore point prior to the depowering? If not then you  need to run some diagnostic software. I use SystemSuite but as a student you probably want something at the free end of the spectrum. Try Microsoft's Fix-It  or do a Repair Install if you have Win 7. Beware of some of the dll-fixer downloads on the Internet though.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. If you rely on your laptop for school then try and discipline yourself not to load games and fun stuff onto it - reserve your desktop for leisure - because the more stuff you have, then the harder it is to keep it running sweetly. You also run a greater risk of malware. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 07:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd be astonished if the cost of a new battery doesn't come to more than the residual value of the laptop. Even if fixing everything else is free (and it won't be unless you have accidental damage cover), batteries are never covered by the warranty because their life is both pretty low and more or less fixed. Junk it, dude. Junk it and buy a new one. -- 18:22, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Internet ephemera, webcomic division
SMBC does it again. Hover over the red button at the bottom for your bonus panel. I put it here, rather than the basilisk page, so it will disappear into the archives faster. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 12:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Media watch challenge
So today my local non-Murdoch rag has yet another article discussing how much money was "wiped off" the stock market- this latest one howls that "136.5 billion was wiped off". So here's a challenge - can anyone find an article in an MSM which talks about how xxx billions were put ON to the stock market? I've never seen one. (And yes I'm bored). VOX HUMANA  00:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You mean how the stock market gained billions? Because if so: This is the NYT after the single largest stock jump in DJIA history Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 00:35, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it doesn't mention "adding" billions to the stock market - it just talks about percentage gains. From what I've seen it is only when the market falls that they go back to talking about X billions of dollars being wiped off. Just media sensationalism, obviously. VOX  HUMANA  04:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Is there a doctor in the house?
How soon after an embryo is implanted into the uterine wall will a pee-test show "positive"? (NB this question has nothing to do with me or anyone I may or may not have impregnated....) Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 03:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Usually not for a couple of weeks: http://www.babymed.com/early-positive-pregnancy-test-after-implantation Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 03:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! EDIT -- It appears blood tests "work" sooner than the home test. That's not what the person who's at the heart of this inquiry seems to understand....hmm. Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 03:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Your first answer is incorrect. Today's modern pee tests can tell within days of the implantation, or 6 days after fertilization. [[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  The ablity to breath is such an overrated ability  04:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)  (i guess not "highly" heh).  HCG is able to be detected as soon as the body starts producing it, by the more sensitive (read - expensive) pee tests and the blood tests.  The pee on a stick variety are more effective each day, and within 10 days, you'll generally have enough for even the less senstive ones.[[Image:green mowse.png|25px]]<font face="Estrangelo Edessa"><font color="Blue">Godot  The ablity to breath is such an overrated ability  04:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I was generally thinking cheap, over the counter, which is about a week, week and half. At least that's what we were taught in sex ed. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 04:59, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

The Flu, webcomics, and evolution
In one of the webcomics I have in my rss feed, they just started a stoyrline about home schooling evolution and the flu. Dumbing of Age - Answers in Hennessy. "'cuz cognitive dissonance has caused you to submit to a painful yet voluntary procedure based on science you claim you don't believe in?" -- Its funny!. Just thought people might like it. --Shagie (talk) 23:41, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Two short stories
I thought you'd enjoy these two Mencken pieces.--Krej talk 01:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Humans in the Americas -- Well, how did we get here?
I'm reading a general history of Barbados which starts at the VERY beginning. The author mentions that new (at the time of writing) research indicates that instead of crossing over the Bering Strait some 25,000 years ago, humans might have existed in the Americas far earlier--he mentions, but does not cite, archaeological evidence from South America. He also mentions, but does not cite, the idea that humans may have come here from what is now Africa before continental drift put the Atlantic ocean between the Americas and Africa. I call bullshit on the second, but wonder about the first. Anyone got an informed opinion? Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 01:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That second one is complete horseshit. Humans as we know didn't appear until long after South America and Africa were long apart. --Revolverman (talk) 01:27, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It used to be accepted that the Clovis people (appeared ~13,000 years ago) were the first, but a hard-fought paradigm shift has lead to the acceptance of earlier archaeological sites. Even 25,000 years, however, still seems much too early&mdash;what evidence does he claim? Peter mqzp 01:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think the first one is true either. It seems the earliest dated sites in Barbados don't go back further than 2000 BC. Besides, that he's making outlandish claims without even trying to back them up should indicate the author's credibility.-- "Shut up, Brx." 01:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * @ Brxbrx -- he's not claiming people were in Barbados any earlier, he's talking about humans in the Americas more generally. The guy is also one of the world's most respected scholars in the field of Anglophone Caribbean history, and on topics from English settlement on, I would have no problem with anything he says. I think what has happened here is that in the interest of being complete, he did some sloppy work on stuff that is ultimately completely tangential to what the book is really about. @ Revolver -- it's a popular text, not an academic one, and citations are scanty: he does not cite anything more than "archaeological finds." Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 02:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You could give us a name, not just for the author but for the book in question-- "Shut up, Brx." 02:11, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The Author. The book is the 2006 Second Edition of 'The History of Barbados''. Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 02:14, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * (EC)The oldest site talked about on Wikipedia is Pedra Furada, which does go back significantly beyond 25,000 years (though this is disputed). The find is hardly "recent," however.Peter mqzp 02:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I recall back in 2005, there was program entitled The First Canadians. The theory is that during the last ice age, some people crossed the Atlantic on ice flows which is why several Northeastern aboriginal tribes have European DNA.--Cms13ca (talk) 02:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That seems hard to believe for me. An open ice flow doesn't seem like it would do well for keeping a group of migrating people safe from the elements and fed. --Revolverman (talk) 02:26, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems unlikely that humans would have traveled on ice floes as they would be unpredictable and probably not going in the right direction anyway, but during the last glacial maximum 18,000 years ago the ice sheet would have enabled intrepid explorers to walk across. The question is whether they were sufficiently advanced to accomplish this. One would expect that they would need to be at a similar level of technical development as the northern native Americans were say 500 years ago. Land bridges are a much more plausible explanation and for that you need to look to Asia. European DNA is much more likely to have arrived with the Vikings. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 06:47, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Finally got around to watching last night's Daily Show today
Goddamn did Jon nail it last night. For those of you who missed it (or some of you might have CC online blocked in your country): Here it is. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 22:35, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I find "last nights Daily Show today" to be a very confusing set of words. I had to count on my fingers. Shall we go, you and I while we can/Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds? 01:17, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What was that, 6 amendments violated? The reaction from the anchors with law degrees (ie. Mrs. Essentially) made the video though. Osaka Sun (talk) 02:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I half expected one of them to say something along the lines of "Fuck no, are you crazy?" Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 02:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And this is why I say that "Fox News" is an oxymoron in terms, and it scares me that about half the US believes some of that shit. Why is it that I always seem alone on these issues. At least Jon Stewart has my back. Woots! (PS: Jon Stewart was wrong when he implied a false meaning of "well-regulated militia", but the rest is great!) EnlightenmentLiberal (talk) 04:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Duration of flu-like illnesses
So, I've been seeing some anecdotes about people whose cold/flu symptoms disappeared after one day, either with or without CAM treatment. What explanation could there be?--Krej talk 18:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the 24 hour virus, which is actually just the stomach "flu", and usually doesn't require treatment. If the symptoms fade quickly, it's probably because those afflicted stayed hydrated and well-rested, so their natural immune system would fight the virus. Equivamp - (talk) 18:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've heard those stories too. The next day at work the flu is gone, and inexplicably they have a hangover. -- 19:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Symptoms can also include sore throat and nasal congestion. Perfect. Thanks so much.--Krej talk 22:20, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, no it doesn't. I read an anecdote on Yahoo Answers about a flu/cold/omgwtfbbq disappearing in 48 hours, and the person had a sore throat. Hmm....--Krej talk 22:26, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The main reason for short-term flu viruses is that the active virus is closely related to one your immune system already knows. Two people can have very different reactions to the same virus due to having different adaptive histories. However people who live in the same area tend to have similar immuno-adaptive profiles, so a given virus might have a brief, minor impact in one part of the country, yet be highly disruptive in another. VOX  HUMANA  01:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, also, some people (Harriet Hall is one of them) apparently never get coolds or flus. The conflicting information I've read suggests that it is due to weak immune systems or strong immune systems.--Krej talk 14:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Creative Commons
Ironic, yes, but is there any photo on the Internet of Ayn Rand that we can put in her article without violating copyright? Osaka Sun (talk) 04:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ?-- "Shut up, Brx." 06:31, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Captcha Issues
Ok, I'm new here and haven't edited much of anything, but I'm having serious problems with the Captcha system and couldn't find a solution anywhere, though it is certainly possible I just missed it in the massive amount of information on this site. I apologize in advance if that is the case. Anyway, I understand the purpose of Captcha, why it's necessary and all that so please don't take this as a "Captcha is stupid and you should get rid of it" post either. Anyway, I'm running Win7 and have tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox and no matter what it takes me at least 2-3 tries (often typing the same answer for the same question) to get through Captcha and post anything. I had this same problem at AW, so maybe it's just a issue with my system, but I don't know. If anyone has any advice, great; if not, it's just an annoyance and not an actual problem so I'll just deal with it until I get promoted. Thanks, Pdoke2 (talk) 18:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's temporary. I'm not really new but not exactly a frequent user either. As I recall, it's on for a certain period of time after you first create your profile.--P3A58NT86 23:20, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is temporary for new accounts. Also, Pdoke2 was made 'autopatrolled' earlier, which should mean it doesn't happen again anyway.  23:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses and Thank you to whoever made me 'autopatrolled' so quickly after I posted my problem here. You guys are great. Pdoke2 (talk) 03:03, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Psychopathetic rubbish
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/empathy/

More pseudoscience promoted by the esteemed 'skeptic' Steven Novella. Claiming that psychopaths can be identified by fMRI scans. Nonsense. Robert Hare's checklist is pure subjectivity and anyone who has read Without Conscience or even Snakes in Suits with a critical eye can see the joke. 20-30% of USA prisoners are psychopaths? Are poor blacks demonised with a hardwired brain disfunction? Are Taureans stubborn by birth? What claptrap! Stanley Milgram and Phil Zimbardo clearly show what it takes for humans to perform evil acts. I still do not understand how Dr. Novella can still be seen as a leading rational skeptic.

This is dangerous stuff he is promoting. A short while ago I was in contact with some prisoners in the UK. Based on the Hare checklist carried out by young trainee psychiatrists, certain people were denied rehabilitation courses and also parole based on the fact that their brains were 'different' and therefore not responsive to change. Wow! I prefer Jon Ronson's work in his book....

Steven Novella - dick. Dirk Steele (talk) 07:44, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * For once I agree with you. The Invisible Man  <sup style="font-style:italic">I spoke to Him   07:45, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * More than once methinks... Dirk Steele (talk) 07:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * An important aside is that the level of evidence supporting custodial rehabilitation programs is very low. RyanC (talk) 14:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The evidence is actually the prison can cause psychopathology. And the only reason I wont say we can identify psychopaths by MRI/fMRI is because there has been very little research into personality disorders. Frankly, with the low amount of research into personality disorders, you can make damn near any claim and be within the bounds of the current research.--Token Conservative (talk) 15:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes and of course Dr. Novella laps up the neurobabble. At least Neuroskeptic is more circumspect. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/04/27/the-sigh-psychopath-brain/#.UX1whsq1VwQ . Am I the only Szaszian in the village? 81.101.244.221 (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes Dirk, you are the only idiot here.--Token Conservative (talk) 19:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * ;-) Maybe you could at least read one book. I suggest Szasz's Manufacture of Madness. Published in 1970, he was the first major psychiatrist to state that homosexuality was not a mental disease but a medicalized deviant behaviour disapproved of by societies 'norms'. In 1973 it was only just voted out of the DSM although Ego-dystonic sexual orientation was to remain for a futher 10 years. Conversion therapy is still practised by the psychics. 81.101.244.221 (talk) 19:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Shut up troll--Token Conservative (talk) 00:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Water Fluoridation
My home town is debating water fluoridation, and the Occupy! (remember that?) facebook page for it is full what I get the impression is largely pseudoscience. I was wondering what Rwikians thoughts on it were. From the studies I've seen-and I'm not a trained scientist or anything- it seems as though there isn't a risk for any negative consequences as long as fluoride levels are below a certain concentration. Further, I got the impression that discoloration of the teeth was the biggest risk, but that at higher concentrations there are some serious consequences. If you're interested in madness, here's the link. Transitional FormStill Durbinating 16:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * We have an article, you know-- "Shut up, Brx." 16:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. I was looking for thoughts.Transitional FormStill Durbinating 16:58, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Who are the brain police?

 * Don't ya know? Thoughts are banned from here. (unless they accord with a pre 'determined' agenda) --81.101.244.221 (talk) 17:21, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * --Transitional FormStill Durbinating 18:00, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Fish.jpg - And a RobFish as well--X-Wing-icon.png Jabba de Chops 21:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Excuse me? --P3A58NT86 23:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly, Peasant--Transitional FormStill Durbinating 23:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Frank Zappa's Freak Out is one of the greatest albums of all time. VOX  HUMANA  00:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Religion vs depression
(from Slashdot) Study indicating that people who believe in God get better outcomes in therapy for depression. I'll wager some of the more out-of-it religious types will make claims about this that go far beyond what the study actually shows. Pashley (talk) 03:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This is old news, and has been pretty well known for years. The thing is though, this isn't the whole story. The whole story is that people who have deep family connections, are heavily involved in social or political groups, or are religious have lower levels of depression. The reason, according to mental health professionals, is that being involved in a movement bigger than yourself reduces the sociocultural factors that cause depression.--Token Conservative (talk) 15:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * My own (recent) decision to engage with religion has helped my depression/anxiety immensely, both for the more quotidian reasons that Hamilton mentions (my church is involved with some progressive politics that fit me like a glove and I'm on a couple of social action committees, and the church jazz band now has a fantastic guitar player), but also because it gives me a language and a forum to explore some of the more esoteric and existential issues, which is theraputic on its own. Your mileage may vary. She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell. 16:37, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I.e., it comforts you. (talk to a) Nihilist  22:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The number one cause of depression is loneliness (...in my eminently unqualified opinion). As someone raised in a fundamentalist faith, the departure from the communities you belonged to can be a very lonely experience. Becoming a part of a community - any community - is essential for mental health. My own road to rehabilitation was through a motorcycle social club. VOX  HUMANA  00:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Science articles and angry BoNs
Should we, like, do something about that? The Khazar myth article, for example, seems to be out of date, and a very determined BoN badly wants us to change it. The abiotic oil article is supposedly inaccurate, and a good number of anonymous editors have raised complaints about it. The problem is, most users here either don't have the personal knowledge or the patience to review BoN claims and deal with them (either by integrating them into the article or telling the BoN to STFU). Or at least, I don't, and people aren't stepping in.-- "Shut up, Brx." 04:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That's one of the problems with a small editor-base. It only takes one editor to slant an article in a particular way and then BoNs or new editors find it hard to correct because there is a general assumption that either it's right because many people have edited it, or it's right because it's been like that a long time. If nobody else is knowledgable enough to engage with a new editor then proposed changes need to be enumerated on the talk page and references given. It's usually not too difficult to distinguish between good sources and woo-mongers or cranks. You can also check what the other wiki says.  <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 08:21, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The points raised on the Khazar article are valid, but the evidence is pretty new. It doesn't yet have full traction in the world. But if it did, then at best it would render the article deletion-worthy because it would cease to be particularly interesting (IMHO). Abiotic oil is both silly and full of competing hypotheses. It would be impossible to make that fully comprehensive and refute the entire Gish Gallop of ideas. The general outline given in the article isn't necessary wrong, it's just not representative of every proposal - what they're asking is the equivalent of writing an entire article disproving God and then write the article again disproving God-that-wears-blue-socks, and then the entire article yet again on God-that-wears-red-socks.
 * The procedure to bash things out on the talk page is okay. That's what happens anyway and it works 95% of the time (it really does). The trouble is twofold: a) there is a general mistrust of BoNs and a trigger-happy revert attitude comes with it and b) BoNs on occasion come in and act like idiots. That latter one has been evident in some cases where they, frankly, make a completely shit case and mouth off exactly like cranks - even when they are, on consideration of the evidence, actually in the right. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist 01:18, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Cracked's The 5 Creepiest Smear Campaigns Launched by Powerful Groups
http://www.cracked.com/article_20415_the-5-creepiest-smear-campaigns-launched-by-powerful-groups.html Unsurprisingly, Edison is involved.Ryantherebel (talk) 13:33, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Unsurprised by #1 either. But Nader, you're so dirty... Osaka Sun (talk) 13:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The one involving prostitutes was really weird. Hopefully this isn't some sort of Pommer's law, because it's hard to imagine anyone seriously coming up with that.  –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 00:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Real conspiracies are eventually leaked?
There seems to be a rule of thumb here and elsewhere that if a conspiracy is indeed real, eventually someone involved will blow the whistle.

My question is, how do we know that? Has there been cases where someone had enough guts to warn someone?--DoomTay (talk) 15:19, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Watergate is a classic. Innocent Bystander (talk) 15:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the idea is more that the more people in on a conspiracy, over time, someone will eventually spill the beans, either intentionally or accidentally.
 * Consider the moon landing hoax claims -- at this point, it requires thousands of people to have kept a secret for over four decades. No one has talked (not even a deathbed confession), no one has let the truth slip, etc etc etc. It's completely improbably that could have gone on for so long. MDB (the MD is for Maryland, the B is for Bear) 15:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The toupée fallacy applies: if a conspiracy operation was carried out cleverly & covertly enough, leaving no trace of evidence, we simply wouldn't know about it; so not knowing of any successful secret conspiracies isn't proof that there haven't been any. On the other hand, Occam's Razor also applies, and for theories like a hoax moon landing (as MDB said), 9/11 carried out as a false flag op by the US government, the Boston bombings being staged, etc., the resources involved in such operations and numbers of people who would need to be maintaining secrecy simply don't compute.   18:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, small conspiracies probably do routinely go undetected. If you stole a cookie from the kitchen, swore your siblings to secrecy and then all forgot about it, congratulations you were part of a successful and undetected conspiracy. The objection to conspiracies going undetected for a prolonged time is usually raised in the context of the Grand conspiracy, a type of theory in which believers say that large (sometimes practically unbounded) groups of people are in on the conspiracy. This is the type of theory where e.g. an independent committee investigates, finds nothing and the believers respond "Of course they'd say that, they're in on it".
 * In terms of big secrets kept by fair-sized groups for a long period, the relatively modern example I always go to is Ultra. People kept that secret for about a decade, long after it served any direct purpose. They were (mostly indirectly, through reading and signing the Official Secrets Act) threatened with prison or perhaps death if they revealed the secret, but on the other hand for much of the time the war was over and they must have at least suspected that the full weight of their burden was no longer present. So that gives us an idea of what a medium-sized organised government conspiracy could be capable of. Manhattan was equally secret but by its nature the secret could not outlast the war. Tialaramex (talk) 21:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a bit of a difference here because you are talking about secret operations, something that was regarded as a national secret for external security reasons; so that the enemy would not be made aware of it. Conspiracies are normally about deceiving the domestic population. People are less inclined to stay quiet when it's their fellow citizens who are being deceived rather than an enemy being informed. <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 21:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Combine that that those types of military ops have only single digit numbers of people in on it, and quite often still end up blown (IE, see the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand or the Russian killing of a Chechnya leader in Qatar. ) --Revolverman (talk) 00:59, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Genghis's point is well made but there's a subtlety here. Everybody is trying to be good, but their local definition of good varies. That's how the real world works, and it's even how you get character tension in fiction if you're not willing to resort to one dimensional "grr, I'm evil, I hate all goodness" caricatures for major characters. Rebecca for example is on one level the story of a man who has murdered his wife, and then conspired with his new wife to destroy evidence and pervert the course of justice. And the reader is fully intended to sympathise with them. You are not expected to get towards the end of the novel and think "Oh, lass, you should go confess everything to the police". At another scale, check Watchmen particularly the comic book but the movie to some extent too. Do you agree with Rorschach that it's always better to die telling the truth, no matter the consequences?
 * SF authors have come up with several things that are easily bad enough to make a mass conspiracy to protect the public look quite sane. Basilisk images are an example, mere pictures that kill by doing something to your mind when you see them. If they are possible the knowledge of how to make such an image would have to be suppressed because otherwise one loose crazy could kill millions by e.g. showing the picture on live television. Tialaramex (talk) 08:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What the hell are you talking about? 11:17, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, rambling a bit. Basically I was trying to motivate the possibility that people who were conspirators might feel justified, even heroic for deceiving their fellow citizens because it's "for the best" in their opinion in contrast to Genghis Khant's idea that secrecy would be preserved for national secrecy but not for a conspiracy against one's fellow citizens. Tialaramex (talk) 12:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Secrets kept for the purpose of protecting the public from possible harm aren't really all that different from secrets kept for purposes of national defence. But that doesn't really apply to most of the standard stuff proposed by conspiracy theorists (moon hoax, 9/11 hoax, Sandy Hook hoax, etc.) which involves a mass delusion carried out to advance an agenda.  13:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Conspiracy theorists don't really see that distinction, though. And on one level I'm inclined to agree with that. "National security" is still an agenda - in the same way that "securing the NWO" is an agenda - and keeping official secrets advances it appropriately. The point being that should any of these conspiracy theories be true, then their nature is exactly the same as ones that have been held secret in the past because of reasons X, Y and Z. People involved would have the same opinion. The difference is that a moon landing hoax would simply have to be too damn big for this to happen. You wouldn't get enough people on side to pull it off. It's a raw logistical problem more than being qualitatively different. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>d hominem 01:37, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It is probably true that, as above, minor conspiracies often go undetected. However, especially in modern times, conspiracies of substantial size tend to leave paper trails. Even if the conspiracy is not exposed as it's happening, it can still be uncovered after the fact. Take, for example, or the. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I think that at any level, this is going to be subject to the toupee fallacy, and so you can't really make the conclusion. For all we know, the vast majority of conspiracies could be successfully hidden. –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 04:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The paper trail might actually be the conspiracy of course. That's definitely been a Scientologist strategy, you get an inside man and his job is literally just to alter the paperwork so that it appears something happened. Scientology can then "uncover" the secret and use it against an individual or more commonly a government department. You can get the situation where you're accused of doing X, you know you didn't so you feel quite happy to say "Of course, people are welcome to check the official records..." and then you find to your horror that the records say you in fact did X.
 * From a mathematical/ cryptographic point of view we have a fix for this which is called Trusted Timestamping. Every time you legitimately author or change a document, you provide one or more third parties with a "digest" (a very large number which in a sense summarises that document without actually revealing its contents). Any person can go from a document to its digest, and the Trusted Timestamping authority provides an authoritative and tamper-proof record of when they saw particular digests. But today very few records are protected in this way, your best protection is if the records are public and readily copied so that a conspirator must worry that unmolested copies will trip them up Tialaramex (talk) 10:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The toupee fallacy could be used to handwave anything. The converse to it is absence of evidence being interpreted as evidence of absence, which is on slightly firmed group with respect to what conspiracies get blown and which ones "don't". Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>gnostic 15:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Blog broken, should be back within 24 hours
The blog is completely broken. The DNS is being repointed as we speak, we should have a slightly working blog some time tomorrow living on the RWF server - David Gerard (talk) 00:25, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, now it's repointed. Now we just have to convince Apache to stop being a dick - David Gerard (talk) 17:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Please stop being racist against Native Americans. She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell. 17:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * But the RWF employed it specifically to come over here and steal our Jobs! - David Gerard (talk) 17:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Currently waiting on Trent - David Gerard (talk) 08:23, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Blog back for at least some people! (If your DNS resolves.) Currently working only straight off the main Apache server, I'll see about kicking the squids/load balancer into shape - David Gerard (talk) 06:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association???
Anybody know anything about this publication? Backstory: I was up late with flu bug watching infomercials to fall asleep. One I came across was a "memory enhancer" called Procera. Naturally, being a member of RW, I was skeptical of many of the claims made on the infomercial (i.e: another miracle pill for memory-loss) but the one that stuck out most was the claim that it had been scientifically researched and that a double-blind, peer-reviewed scientific study had been published in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association, for which they then show a logo similar to that of the more well-known Journal of the American Medical Association. Basically, a bait-and-switch eye trick. But I thought I'd poke the community here and see if anybody knew anything about it. Is it a legitimate publication or another crank journal? Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 07:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You can find back-issues on their website. But given that there is no legal definition of the term Nutraceutical in the US, you can well imagine that it's a bunch of unsubstantiated puff for the supplement industry. Even their Professional Membersgip FAQ reads like Krej's RationalWiki Wonder Diet, with lots of mentions of  "$xx.xx value".   <font color=Blue>Генгис silverbrain.png 08:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Some legit research groups are in the journal. Some of the research may even be worth paying attention to. But on look-and-feel of the website, journal layout and the general quality of the writing, abstract information and referencing they demand, it doesn't look like the greatest quality journal in the world (contrast with JACS if you like). As always, if someone claims that the study is backed up and published there, I'd just read it and see what it says (or doesn't say, as Ben Goldacre repeatedly points out) and go from there but anything being sold by a late-night infomercial is probably being sold by a late-night infomercial for a reason. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>moral 01:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't figure that it was a very reputable journal. Like I said, the journal looks like a rip-off of JAMA. I was just trying to prod what people here had heard so I could have some material to start an article about it with. Nonetheless, thanks for the feedback. Reckless Noise Symphony (talk) 09:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't say I've heard of it before, so can't really help. Though seems like there are accusations of conflict-of-interest funding. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist 15:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * And it seems to not have an impact factor at all nor is it indexed by Web of Knowledge. So, it appears to be difficult to find any suitable information on it. Scarlet A.png<font color=#CC0033>narchist 15:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Carried in only 12 libraries, and not many of the big American R-1 institutions. She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell. 15:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Local paper inadvertently makes a funny.
Well, I chuckled. She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell. 20:14, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Reddit crosses the line
If he died after the bombings, someone's got a bit of explaining to do. Osaka Sun (talk) 20:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's crossed that line many times, I sinserly doubt this will change any status quos at Reddit, or any other mass internet board site. --Revolverman (talk) 20:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If certain parts of Sa is meant to be believed, im already expected to believe that they crossed the line because of various subreddits. --MikallakiM 20:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * 4Chan scoffs at your antiquated notions of accountability and morality.--Transitional FormStill Durbinating 01:54, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "crosses the line" is a hell of an understatement. This borders on murder charges--Token Conservative (talk) 15:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Have fun with the legal wranglings for charging 10,000+ people. --Revolverman (talk) 22:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing good comes easy.--Token Conservative (talk) 22:35, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Bigotry wiki
I've been working on it with another user here, and we're starting to get some articles done. He suggested that we should see if we can get anyone else interested in collaborating. We're also working on refocusing some of our articles, which are a bit low brow about making fun of racists.


 * http://bigotry.sashaweb.net

–Nazis are bad and I don't like them 00:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you Proxima's long lost cousin? This is the second fork attempt in a few months. Osaka Sun (talk) 00:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you mean "fork attempt?" Did someone attempt to for the wiki?  I copied a few articles under the CC, but not most of them.  The focus is different.  Anyway, Arcane suggested I should see if anyone else here is interested.  Maybe I could mention it on a category or portal page here?  –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 02:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Rationalwiki has a lot of problems, so people trying to spin something more productive off isn't that surprising. And I remember Inquisitor talking about making a wiki that would be somewhere between us and Citizendium, like 6 months go.--Token Conservative (talk) 02:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Bigotry Wiki isn't intended to be a replacement, since it has a different focus and topic. We could possibly even link to articles here for more information that isn't on mission for us.  The replacement wiki for Citizendium I was talking about would be a history wiki that restricts editing of the article namespace to authorized editors, and would incorporate a draft namespace editable to anyone.  The goal would be to form a much more open wiki and better system of peer review than Citizendium.  Plus wikis can never be considered reliable sources if the article is editable to anyone.  This way people can make any edit they want to a draft, and trusted users can make the decision to add the contribution to the article.  –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 02:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * you tried advertising your latest wiki a few months ago and got one person, what did you expect this time, us to up and realize how stupid we were before?--MikallakiM 02:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * He specifically suggested that I check and see now that we're getting started. –Nazis are bad and I don't like them 02:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Now that we've gotten started". No, you haven't. I looked at RC and saw nothing of note within a glance, and even then 2 people is not a wiki. And why do we need a bigotry wiki? --MikallakiM 02:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright children, go to your rooms, and if you complain, then you don't get any dinner.--Token Conservative (talk) 02:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've developed a solution to this problem. I added it to my watchlist.  –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 04:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * thats adorable and doesnt solve my issue with you: link spamming your many offshot wikis--MikallakiM 05:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Just took a look around. Several comments: 06:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The search function doesn't work, & portals/categories are lacking, making it hard to find content without going to the list of all pages.
 * When you copy RW content, you need to attribute it, under the terms of the Creative Commons licence (see RationalWiki:Copyrights).
 * If you want to be taken seriously as anti-bigotry, you could try not using the word "retarded" quite so often.
 * You might also want to reconsider claims that racists are sub-human and unevolved, gay, and motivated by "penis envy".
 * *jaw drops* I guess we should take it as just another example of nominative determinism.--ZooGuard (talk) 07:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I should already have attribution on pages that were copied.  I realize that calling racists gay and retarded has been over done, and conflicts with the concept of an anti bigotry wiki.  We're going to work to scale those back.  As for articles like Racialoid, I added a humor template that should be used to indicate that the page is intended for humor and not to be serious.  –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 07:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The site has already been blocked by the network filter at my work. That was quick. VOX  HUMANA  07:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * For being vulgar? –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 07:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It didn't say why. I'm currently working for Sydney's public transport, and the network filter is pretty harsh. I'm just amazed it got added so quickly. Meanwhile RW has a free pass (also no idea why). VOX  HUMANA  11:21, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe it filters out anything that's not factual. Although even here there's the fun namespace.  –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 13:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Could the site host be banned from the network? Transitional FormStill Durbinating 02:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Who knows. Who cares? VOX  HUMANA  05:39, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I see no reason to splinter. Why not move content onto here. A merger, if you will...--P3A58NT86 19:09, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Would it all be on mission? Also, do we want what would be a lot of fun articles?  –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 21:27, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say "no" and "no". Anyway, is it a splinter? Isn't it just another wiki that happens to have been created by somebody who had a RationalWiki account first?
 * I nearly clicked on a red link over there. Then I remembered that I'm already an admin on seven different wikis and I'm a registered user on a dozen others. I really don't need to add another one. Spud (talk) 05:24, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have the same problem as you.  I already appointed an admin there to help monitor things.  Almost all of the wikis I started and consider an active project have admins on them; I let them handle things.  If the content there isn't going to be on mission here, than I don't see why we would move it.  –Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | Contribs | Mikal's ragebox) 14:23, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Stop. Right. There.
Do not spread this crap up here, guys. Osaka Sun (talk) 05:47, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Considering that he turned down moving from QB to TE to keep playing NFL, do you really think he'd consider for a second he'd go up north to be 3rd string backup to Anthony Calvito? --Revolverman (talk) 22:37, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The Als could always trade their rights to him if there's a team that wants to give him a shot at QB. He might put butts in seats. She said her name was Billie Jean and she was fresh in town/I didn't know her stage-line ran from hell. 22:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think Timmy boy has any fallowing in Canada. He might pop a one day ticket buy for curiousities sake, but nothing long term. B) I don't think any team in the CFL has QB problems honestly. --Revolverman (talk) 22:49, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Cameron, get a grip
The UKIP threat looks serious. Osaka Sun (talk) 23:47, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 * not up close it doesn't. Britain has a history of protest votes going to smaller parties, which make headlines for a few years but fail to make any real gains. The big parties will pay lip service to any UKIP policy that also happens to be popular, anything else will fall by the wayside. UKIP are following the headline-friendly but ultimately fruitless trail made by the Greens twenty years ago and the BNP ten years ago. The tories will lose lots of county council seats, and will get most of them back in four years. Nigel Farage has a less punchable face than Fat Hitler, though, even if he does look like a drunk racing tipster. Sophie  Wilder  11:37, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Will they be as mind-buggeringly incompetent as the BNP councillors were? It'd be hard, but I think they could manage it if they try - David Gerard (talk) 22:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't imagine them sitting in council meetings going "I don't understand a word." Sophie  Wilder  17:10, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Help!
Please. Um, just realised that I hadn't checked my monitor's settings for the past three years or so and found that all the small adjustments I had made over the years had left my monitor displaying things too darkly. I've readjusted it, but I've done a shit load of art work on the old settings, so I need a few people to check two images for me and tell me which one looks right on their monitor (assuming that your monitor has been set-up to be accurate for colour, brightness, vibrance, gamma, etc.), and which one is too dark or too light. Thanks. Oh, and what I was aiming for was very dark hair with the brush strokes doing the defining being slightly visible, but not immediately obvious. Link 1 Link 2. Thanks.-- Jabba de Chops 11:22, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * My monitor is calibrated. Between 1 and 2 is "right," but what I think is "right" might not be your goal. If you are doing art on computers you need to buy something like (which is why I know I'm calibrated right). Hipocrite (talk)  12:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. Reason I'm asking is because I'm doing a piece to be canvas printed for somebody's birthday so I really need what I see on my screen to be as close as possible to what will end up coming off the printer.  If it was my printer it wouldn't be a problem, I can set the monitor settings as the colour profile for the picture and then have that fed through to the printer settings, but I don't know if a commercial set-up would use the colour profile in the image I would send them.  I would imagine that they would, but ordering a print as a test is a bloody expensive way to find out.--X-Wing-icon.png  Jabba de Chops 12:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Pfff! Not happy with my monitor recalibrated to what it's meant to be. It's all bright colours (well okay, colours, they just seem bright) and being able to see subtle shades of grey. Hell, if I turn off the living room light the monitor actually manages to cast enough light so I can see the bezel on the monitor. This is going to take some getting used to.-- Jabba de Chops 21:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)