RationalWiki talk:Webshites/Gender

Why is clefairy.net considered a "webshite"?
WTF is your reason: Probably a transgender woman in denial, this is a rare example of a detransitioned TERF who was assigned male at birth that got really popular on r/detrans. He is a normal male and has made some very good points about transitioning. Mil Mi-8 (talk) 06:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * And what would those points be? 13:00, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that transition is a healthy thing to do to your body, and it further marginalises the already marginalised group that is: women.
 * Transition is a coping mechanism for dysphoria, and a very intrusive one at that. It's self harm. You are setting yourself up for an entire lifetime dependent on expensive hormone treatments. You will become a lifelong patient. The risks of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones are well discussed.
 * If you're a feminine guy or a masculine girl who is uncomfortable with how society treats you based on your sex, I feel for you. ...It's OK to be a feminine guy, though. It doesn't make you a woman. It doesn't detract from you being male. It's OK not to fit neatly into a stereotypical box. You can find peace and be loved just by being you.
 * Quotes from https://clefairy.net/oversharing/ Mil Mi-8 (talk) 22:47, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Quotes from https://clefairy.net/oversharing/ Mil Mi-8 (talk) 22:47, 14 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't think that transition is a healthy thing to do to your body, and it further marginalises the already marginalised group that is: women. Not a good point. Naked transphobia, medically nonsense.
 * Transition is a coping mechanism for dysphoria, and a very intrusive one at that. It's self harm. You are setting yourself up for an entire lifetime dependent on expensive hormone treatments. You will become a lifelong patient. The risks of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones are well discussed. Not a good point. Medically nonsense.
 * If you're a feminine guy or a masculine girl who is uncomfortable with how society treats you based on your sex, I feel for you. ...It's OK to be a feminine guy, though. It doesn't make you a woman. It doesn't detract from you being male. It's OK not to fit neatly into a stereotypical box. You can find peace and be loved just by being you. Actually correct, but unrelated to transitioning. Nobody is going around trying to get feminine men and butch women to transition, it's a common transphobic trope.
 * Looks like it solidly belongs in webshites, based on those. Queexchthonic murmurings 22:52, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you add more than "Naked transphobia, medically nonsense."? Its not very informative of your point. Mil Mi-8 (talk) 22:55, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you explain why transition is actually healthy for the human body to endure? Also disagreement doesn't mean hate. I disagree that I like vanilla ice-cream, that doesn't mean I am a vanillaphobe. Mil Mi-8 (talk) 22:59, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * sigh. Transition is not unhealthy for someone's body. Or at the very least, no more unhealthy than dozens of more common behaviours that people don't gripe about, and proven to be less harmful than continued gender dysphoria. The assertion that it's 'damaging' is a common trope in transphobia and is not based on medical reality. It is not self harm, by any sane definition of the term. The idea that trans rights erode women's rights is complete bullshit, peddling solely by bigots. Included in that is the idea that somehow trans women 'further marginalise' cis women. US anti-gay Christian pressure groups are actually on the record as saying that the entire tactic is a deliberate attempt to roll back gay rights and women's rights by starting with a more marginalised group and trying to pit their opponents against each other. So what we have here are medical assertions that are provably nonsense, ethical assertions that are provably nonsense, and both sets of assertions are ones that have no currency outside patriarchy-supporting pressure groups (and make no mistake, 'gender critical' is one of them). Queexchthonic murmurings 23:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The various gender confirmation surgeries have a lower incidence of regret than any other elective procedure. If you want to take a principled stand against people 'damaging' themselves through elective surgery, you should start with literally anything else. If you only care about gender confirmation surgery, that proves your biases. Queexchthonic murmurings 23:11, 14 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Are you or the blog poster a medical professional, specifically biologists or psychologists? 23:09, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * An obsession that your body is wrong and disgusting and needs to be changed through six-figure surgeries Source is not healthy. In fact a study from 2011 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/) shows that transition surgery in fact does nothing to help people's wellbeing. People who transition get obsessed with getting their "correct" body. They take tons of surgeries but then it does nothing to make them happy. They lose focus on life. Hanging out with friends, doing hobbies that you enjoy, being with your loved ones, this creates far more happiness than changing "parts".
 * In a more personal note, as a small child I felt I was a girl trapped in a boy's body and I pestered my mom to allow me to wear a dress. But as I grew older, I became more and more upset that I wasn't born a boy. But after I got therapy, I was able to accept the body that I was born with and I feel so much happier now. Mil Mi-8 (talk) 11:07, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll take your text wall as a no. So, given you do not in fact possess the prerequisite expertise, on what basis are you objecting to transitioning as a medical and psychological treatment for gender dysphoria? 21:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Please address my question. Given you lack the relevant expertise to speak on this subject, as does the blog poster, on what basis do you oppose transitioning as a treatment? 21:18, 16 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Have you ever had any body issues? Mil Mi-8 (talk) 13:23, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 'six-figure surgeries' is meaningless anywhere with proper healthcare; the US model is fundamentally broken and backward. Cherry-picking a single study doesn't change the medical consensus. Your anecdote, no matter how heartfelt, does not undo the research that shows benefit. It's established the biggest problems people face post gender confirmation surgery stem from acceptance and bigotry. Demonising the surgery, and those that get it, is part of the problem, not the solution. The quotes you gave are demonstrably, objectively incorrect and that's enough to justify inclusion in webshites. Queexchthonic murmurings 13:35, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * six figures is not meaningless, its actually a TONS of money. The cost is also six figures in Australia (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-02/the-hidden-$100,000-price-tag-on-being-transgender/9498918) so its not just an American thing. Also the study refutes your statement that transition is anything good. "Demonising the surgery, and those that get it, is part of the problem, not the solution." Yes, those people receive no benefit from it except crippling debt. The quotes you gave are demonstrably, objectively incorrect and that's enough to justify inclusion in webshites. I don't think so. I ask that you read my previous quotes above.  Mil Mi-8 (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * You have completely ignored the fact that cherry-picking a single study proves nothing. Your quotes prove nothing. For someone who complained about me being dismissive without explanation, you are curiously unwilling to bring substantive evidence. "those people receive no benefit from it except crippling debt." medical consensus disagrees, based on the bulk of research into the matter. You can disagree with it if you want. Everyone has the right to be wrong. No-one has the right to have their ignorance taken seriously. Queexchthonic murmurings 20:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, thats quite difficult to find more studies due to most studies investigating the outcomes of sex reassignment surgery are flawed as they have only included a small percentage of sex reassignment surgery patients in their studies. However read my study again. Why do you refuse to accept the study? All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973–2003. Thats quite a lot of time, if you think. Mil Mi-8 (talk) 21:03, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also read this as well: (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-006-9040-8} Mil Mi-8 (talk) 21:04, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * A few seconds of googling finds this systematic review. 56 studies, not just 1 or 2. Highlighting individual studies is exactly what cranks do; purely by random variation some with give results against the prevailing evidence. It's only meta-analyses and systematic reviews that give you the full picture. And in this case, they all point one way. I suspect you've been lied to by people with transphobic axes to grind, who select isolated 'evidence' that seems to support their position. Note that the write-up for this review says no studies showed negative impact; this could be because the studies you've been pointed to did not meet the quality criteria for inclusion. After all, the ROGD paper is still in the literature, despite being complete hogwash. Queexchthonic murmurings 21:12, 16 March 2022 (UTC)


 * My own experience when it came to trans issues, as well that Swedish study I have cited. Also, that cost of trans surgery that I have also cited.Mil Mi-8 (talk) 11:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Also I would like to thank you for being kind and putting back the comment and sticking up for me. Real appreciated it. 😊 Mil Mi-8 (talk) 11:31, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Since we're talking medical treatment, our personal experiences are irrelevant. As for the study you cited, one study from eleven years ago does not disprove the current academic consensus on this topic. Which, unless it changed since last I checked, was treating gender dysphoria with a transitioning regimen, with oversight from multiple types of medical professionals. 14:08, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I kinda have doubts that GrammarCommie would be that nice. I saw him at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, "Oh, like you’re doing now?" I was taken aback, and all I could say was "Huh?" but he kept cutting me off and going "huh? huh? huh?" and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like "Sir, you need to pay for those first." At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually "to prevent any electrical infetterence," and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly. 14:44, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Trans-focused conservatives
No section for these types? Wut? Let's fix that. Chillpilled (talk) 00:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC) Or more particularly, I've just named the section "generic transphobes". Non-feminist, non-transmedicalist transphobes can all go there. Chillpilled (talk) 00:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)