RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation/Archive50

Sorry...but...
LGM should immediately be removed as a mod. The shit she has been saying about me away from prying eyes completely disqualifies her as a mod on RW. She is not an honest broker in the slightest. I may be a lot of things but I am honest - LGM is a lying scumbag pretending to be an upfront negotiator. I have to find out second hand that she is accusing me of being a drug addict (of all criticism one could make of me 'drug addict' would be the last thing). Yah, I cause drama it seems but what you see is what you get. LGM is a dishonest prick. I have the screenshots if anyone is interested. Acei9 22:35, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If she was honest she would do what I did... quit when I realized it was untenable to continue. Acei9 22:39, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't support LGM for mod next year, but LGM hasn't done anything yet to warrant de-modding now. --Andrew5 (talk) 22:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OK cool. Sure. But I got fucking skinned alive with my attitude towards some people here... but I was open about it. This fucker does it behind closed doors. Dishonest, lying. LGM is here as a moderating voice but behind the scenes is a totally different person. Completely unqualified. Like me. Acei9 22:51, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That’s true, but Techpriest was also doing it. Might not support her either, however. I’ll definitely say this, I really miss Rockford as a moderator. I’ll probably re-nominate him next year, and I hope he can win. --Andrew5 mobile (talk) 23:02, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * All I asked was "Can drugs do this to people, make them unpredictable?". It IS known you drink, you don't exactly made it a secret, people don't make it a secret, and I DO think you're unpredictable. I was just wondering why you behaved the way you did because it was baffling to accept what I did and then get a sudden mood change on another apology I did that wasn't directed at you to begin with. Aside from this, I did not make any accusations. I may have come off as suggesting such a thing, but that was not my intention. 23:30, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Other than that, show me the screenshots. 23:36, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I've also followed up with "I don't dislike you [SPQR]. Hell Duce I don't dislike either even in spite of him lashing out at me and hurting my feelings. I don't want to dislike Ace and I don't want to dislike Nutty. Hell I don't think I want to dislike Hastur. I want to think about the things we have in common like we're buildings a wiki to help people.". Just to make it clearer I'm not trying to talk shit behind you but only am struggling to understand the situation here. 23:53, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I can quote you directly. I don't lie. You do. Admit it man. You know I'm telling the truth. Step down dude. I did. Acei9 23:54, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * LGM, if a person cannot accept an apology there is no point continuing. For someone without a care in the world, sitting back having a smoke and a drink...you sure hold onto a grudge Ace. Shabi  DOO  23:56, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I quoted myself, Ace. "Can drugs do this to people, make them unpredictable?". You made the same quote in my talk page. Is that all the quotes because it's not clear to me. You have a misleading impression from that quote. 23:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey fuck you man . I got fucking maligned by all you fucks so gave up being a mod and disappeared for a bit only to have to return because I was still being talked about. Do you think I want to be here? I have no particular grudge with anyone but when backing someone who has been shit-talked about on Discord, empathizing with that to only be shittalked about myself - yah I'll fucking talk. So fuck you. Acei9 00:05, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * (EC)Ace, Why is the ATiM page being spammed with things that didn't even take place on this site? This community has discussed the relevance of off-site behavior a lot and we've come to the conclusion that it takes some pretty extreme things(extremist rhetoric, death threat-related stuff) to warrant penalties on RW. "I think this person is a jerk based on screenshots I supposedly have" doesn't cut it.
 * If you want to indulge some puerile grudge with lefty, do it on her talk page. This is not a mod concern.-Flandres (talk) 00:07, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would normally agree with you. Acei9 00:10, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ace, can you at least give like... a diff or a screenshot or anything? From my perspective you go from zero (accepting a truce with LGM) to a hundred (telling her to fuck off for apologizing to Andrew) within less than 24 hours. You got blowback for the second bit. As for the drug user accusations; to me it seemed like a general question (from what I can tell the only thing you seem to readily admit to is drinking alcohol), but I will admit that this might have been a lapse in judgement in retrospect. For now however I don't see how this applies to the wiki however. -- Techpriest (talk) 00:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * (ec) Shabidoo: I tried. On Discord, I wasn't trying to shittalk. I was just trying to understand why a behavior happened. I even added a "just curious" at the end of the quote to try to indicate no malicious intent and was struggling to follow up with something along the lines of "I never really had personal experience with how unpredictable people can be like this". I WAS going to add in Discord how much of a souring presence Ace and Nutty were, that's the accusation, since that's my honest feelings and possibly others' but, guess what, that message didn't come out partially due to work but also relieved that work begun again because it was a mean message and would escalate the thing. Anyway Ace, what other accusations have I made? "drug addict" on a search doesn't appear besides two results, neither by me, neither referring to Ace in any capacity; and simply searching "Ace" on Support Chat does not bring up any results by me accusing you to be an addict. In fact I think only one message has me complaining about Ace directly, but there's one from November last year: "Ace's a different case but no action should be taken [on Ace misgendering people accidentally]. I don't think it's really excusable for Ace to constantly not know the pronouns of people he's been interacting with for a while. I don't like Ace at all but this isn't a reason for me to resent him." So, that isn't exactly a secret we don't like each other. I don't know if there's some obscure earlier referral in the past, buried in the older other Discord server. 00:16, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Meh. I would let it go LGM. This is a stupid ridiculous ATIM on Ace's part. Might be a good idea to find other things to do than RW-discord with your precious free time :) Shabi  DOO  00:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not going to be easy. I admit, the question was inappropriate and invasive (I can imagine being uncomfortable if someone I had rough disagreements with thought my ADHD, which I didn't make secret, was causing me to act "impulsive" or "emotional" or "taking things way too personally, and they too don't understand how weird that is), but it was out of naïvety, not really understanding stigmatization, rather than malicious intent. It's not the first time I've posed queries in that manner, I've had people on the older Discord tell me I'm sometimes naïve. I probably need time off the wiki. 00:39, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You know what...? Fuck it man. If you can't see what the problem is here then I can't lead you to it. You have a mod, mods, who (whom) spend(s)s their time being oh so friendly on wiki while getting nasty off-wiki. You protected a person, she, him , who was quite obviously lying, about everything. They lied about a suicide for fucks sake. If you could not see that for what it was then I pity you and can't see how you couldn't see it for what it was. Dude, use your fucking brain. This ain't hard. I'm a lot of things. I'm a drunk. I've a ex-wife. I throw money around stupidly. I have so many issues that need resolving. I'm fucking sitting shirtless wearing ripped jeans, staring at a human skull used for a peanuts (it's art and cost a lot of money at auction - I've never, nor would not unless really necessary, hurt anyone physically). listening to your fucking justifications about how you defend your behaviour. At least be honest with yourself about one thing... Oxy was full of shit. everything he/she said was complete bullshit. And after that look at your own bullshit. I might not be a good person. I might be abrasive and awful. But I am honest. Time for you to be honest........ can you? LGM. you lie more than I do. Acei9 00:44, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Handling the situation between you and Oxy was very difficult because while Oxyaena was a very difficult user who started fights and LANCB'd at the slightest signs of stress, but from what I can recall you were also goading her to have her respond angrily to make it even more difficult to proceed. I did not "protect" Oxyaena, that constant accusation is wholly inaccurate. You are singling me out as an arbitrer of Oxy's fate when in reality the decisions concerning her were made by a consensus of the community who also thought Oxyaena was problematic but picked fights with Ace who they also argued picked fights with her for every post she made, which lead to a successful interaction ban. As for my behavior, it seems like you just don't like my explanation for my thought processes and jumped right to accusing me of being a liar. What is there to say? You think I'm a liar, fine, since nothing else is going to convince you. You have completely false impressions of me, Ace, and you're conjuring up your own assumptions about me that would shock me. 01:06, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * (EC)And none of this has proved that the RW mod team should take any action. None of this is within our scope. It's basically Ace demanding we take action against people he happens to personally dislike for things they may have done off-site...implicitly out of our jurisdiction. Can we archive this? I don't want to archive it unilaterally but this is pretty clearly not something that should be an ATiM thread.-Flandres (talk) 01:07, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * We might actually want to keep this open, in case anyone proposes sanctions on Ace or something. I personally wouldn't support them but I wouldn't oppose them either.Last time it failed, but it could succeed. However I wouldn't object to an early archival. --Andrew5 (talk) 01:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Andrew that is totally unhelpful. A one time overreaction on ATIM is not sanctionworthy. Hopefully lessons learnt. Just archive this stupidity. Shabi  DOO  01:19, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You fucking people...jesus. Honestly... can the point fly past you any quicker? Fuck mate - I expected curiosity but not dumbfounded idiocy. Ban me, kill me, set fire to my nuts. Whatever man. I don't say this lightly because I'm a smart guy who expects the same in others... but you guys are fucking stupid. Sorry man, that's just my read and reading people is what I do for living. You're a bunch of nitwits. Acei9 01:28, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm also handsome. I know this because my hairdresser with holes in his shoes told me. He can't be wrong. Acei9 01:40, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm also handsome. I know this because my hairdresser with holes in his shoes told me. He can't be wrong. Acei9 01:40, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Ace stop being a child.
Natch. We can't do anything about your beef with LGM. It isn't on the wiki; the off-wiki scenario had led to adequate reprimands to ensure it won't happen again. Stop edit warring over ATIM (for any other mods; hello, Ace has been edit warring last night's argument back into ATIM after we concluded it wasn't in our purview). Talk it out with LGM or something. -- Techpriest (talk) 11:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If some one raises something, no matter how trivial, on the mod page then it should not be reverted. Why the fuck do we even have mods if they can't be raised to attention because some nitwit reverts them? Acei9 11:35, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Didn’t you just hear her you prick? She can’t do anything about it! Get that through your thick fucking skull! Adam Warlock (talk) 11:38, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * They looked into it, you just didn't like the result. You don't get to pretend people are stopping you from raising it when in reality it was raised, considered and discarded. Queexchthonic murmurings 11:40, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ace, your initial complaint would have been left up (the very first one you posted up to this diff. Then you put last nights argument (the one that's been send to Archive 50) back into ATIM. That led to edit wars between you and and . Your complaint has been noted. We can't do anything about it here, and I can assure you that the off-site community in which this occurred won't have that sort of behavior tolerated again. I'm not sure what else we can do; we are most likely not gonna demote LGM (mind you that last year you yourself proved that a moderator can get away with attempting to troll other users. This does not even remotely reach that degree of behavior). -- Techpriest (talk) 11:44, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I recall that when RW's Discord channel was added to the sidebar, Ace agreed that whatever goes on there is not officially part of RW and outside our ability to patrol. Also, the evidence presented for misdeeds at this point has not been clearly presented. These are two good reasons that the case was closed. We have three mods supporting closure: Flandres, Techpriest and myself. Bongolian (talk) 17:48, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * First, I would like to agree with some opinions already expressed. Ace has failed to prove this is a mod issue. We didn't "silence him for criticizing lefty" or whatever, we actually heard his case, asked him to provide evidence, and then archived it when he completely failed to do so. This also has a faint aura of hypocritical dishonesty to it because he is usually in favor of separating RW and Discord but suddenly flips his opinions when his feelings are hurt.
 * Now, I would like to add some things. It is amusingly hypocritical that Ace and co rant about how the "decline of RW" is because the "adults left the room" but Ace acts like a petulant brat when we fail to join in what is honestly a personal vendetta. If you read archive 50, note that Ace never explains how lefty abused her mod powers. He just rants about how much he can't stand her as a person. In fact, wasn't he the guy who used to complain that modern mods are too interventionist? He literally wants to conscript us for his personal crusade based on something which didn't even happen on-site!
 * When Ace appealed the mods, he had to implicitly accept the chance we would not care because we don't think he has a case. We have a rich precedent for not giving an extended hearing to frivolous cases here, especially when they ask for absurdly dramatic things like demodding somebody-just look at Unclescrooge! Most of his "cases" weren't even archived, they were just reverted on the spot with pretty much universal community support.-Flandres (talk) 18:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, more petty bullshit from people who should know better 18:28, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Another point, I think that it's doubtful that mods have the authority to demod a fellow mod except in the most extreme of cases, of which this is clearly not. Mods are popularly elected, hence the coop would be the appropriate forum. However I in no way support moving this non-case to the coop. Bongolian (talk) 19:33, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Could we at least put in effect an interaction ban between Ace and Mario? I think that is the only way this is going to get solved. Adam Warlock (talk) 19:38, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It could be done, but it wouldn't have stopped this issue, which was based on off-site interactions. Bongolian (talk) 19:42, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * LGM apologised and admited it was unwise to talk about Ace the way she did, even if off site and to be a little more careful how she talks about others in the future (even if off site). Now it is completely up to Ace to magnanimously accept the apology and not pull the hissy fit of a kindergartener who hasn't had their afternoon nap or cookie. Such an interaction ban seems pretty lop sided. Perhaps both parties have to be equally and consistently ridiculous before that is necessary? Shabi  DOO  19:49, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I-banning a user on RW for a conflict that doesn't really take place on RW seems pretty toothless...even if said user is being a whiny brat about it.-Flandres (talk) 19:58, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I believe on-wiki sanctions for behaviour on Discord should only be used if it rises to the level of severe off wiki harassement. Things like death threats on Discord should at bare minimum warrant an instant coop. However, from what I hear it hasn't risen to that point...yet. Also, an iban was recently shot down 7-13 in favor, so don't expect that to pass. --Andrew5 (talk) 20:42, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Anyone making death threats where I can see it would find themselves swiftly removed from any community in which I have control and would get you dragged to a coop case on this site. I'd rather be overly cautious on those than ending up responsible for not curbing shit. -- Techpriest (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, death threats against other users should be treated with zero tolerance no matter where they happen. 21:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay that does it. I have decided to wipe out all of you, every single one of you with my banana-launcher! No one will be spared from my tropical fruit rampage!!! Shabi  DOO  21:49, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * So we're basically zombies? Interesting. I mean, all of us have returned from the dead....as in bans on RW. --Andrew5 (talk) 22:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

I think LGM should just leave Ace to the five other moderators to deal with. I'm not sure it would be a fair fight, but I think they can do it. Lefty: pretend he doesn't exist, then you won't need to "understand" him better. If he bothers you then,...we'll see. UncleKrampus (talk) 22:49, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think if Ace and LGM worked on a page collaboratively together that would probably help. What if they both made Cold War into a silver level article? --Andrew5 mobile (talk) 14:24, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This take would be bad even if you were making a joke-Hastur! (talk) 14:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm making a serious comment in joke format. --Andrew5 (talk) 15:32, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Fun fact
LGM got prissy and had a cow over Smerdis of Tlon's last edit I'd argue that she lacks the right temperament to be a moderator, though I don't know that she's done anything that would warrant a recall.-Hastur! (talk) 14:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you are getting prissy over what might be a reasonable edit. Why don't you ask LGM about why the edit was made instead of creating one of the most ridiculous ATIM posts I have seen by a non-hysterical member. Shabi  DOO  15:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ace has been given a while to respond to his critics/prove he has a case for keeping his previous thread open, and he has not taken up the offer.
 * This thread has now turned into "Hastur stoops so low that he will try and co-opt the memory of the dead to turn the community against a moderator he doesn't like."
 * If nobody has any substantial objection for a while I will just add this to archive 50, since it is pretty clear nothing productive is being achieved here.-Flandres (talk) 17:21, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This is downright pathetic. Hastur, you've successfully managed to be more childish than Ace has been during this and all in the span of one comment. Feel free to archive it, I just wanted this to be made known. -- Techpriest (talk) 18:04, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Inconsistent enforcements
23:38, 5 January 2022 LeftyGreenMario (talk | contribs) blocked UShistoryanalyzer (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of 3141 seconds (about 1 hour) (account creation disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (stop being annoying)

Had the notion that mere annoyances on subjective grounds merits blocking is enforced consistently, the majority of current RationalWikians would have faced coop-sanctioned permabans last decade. Almost a pitiful sight to behold, the observation of RatonalWiki moderators and administrators in the likes of LeftyGreenMario culturally appropriating an asylum run by the inmates. Ushit the dipshit (talk) 00:48, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Lmao. 00:49, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Your persecution complex is showing you little prick. Adam Warlock (talk) 00:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll just leave this here... 00:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I personally don’t agree with the block, but one hour isn’t that long and I would recommend we stop complaining about these short blocks. Andrew5 mobile (talk) 01:01, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You should become a melodrama writer!--A p r i l Chat? 01:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Just in case anyone is interested, if you check RationalWiki:Chicken_coop/Archive130, you will see both Duce and LGM voted to permaban him, but GC and I opposed that. I did support the pi week block, pi months passed anyway. Not sure if this is relevant, but...--Andrew5 (talk) 01:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As shown in that coop case, though, one of the big complaints about USHA was abusive use of All Things In Moderation. Things haven't changed, I see. (It was rather amusing for USHA to butt into a comment on Hastur's talk page concerning Hastur's abuse of ATIM. Surely a warning for Hastur not to follow.) PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 01:16, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Could we please archive this? Hasn't there been enough drama in the past few days aside from Ace's tantrum? Adam Warlock (talk) 01:21, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Is arbitrary blocking a form of harassment, in violation of Community Standards/Conduct? Dutchbag (talk) 01:26, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The block was after a silly nonsensical edit from a user with a problematic history of nonsensical edits. So meh. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 01:32, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Personally, if it were 9 hours, 3.6 days or longer I'd say yes, but if it's only an hour (less then that, rounds to 53 minutes) I'd say it's not that long at all. (FYI, the 9 hours is actually 8 hours and 43 minutes and 3.6 days is 3 days, 15 hours and 16 minutes). --Andrew5 (talk)
 * Also the block probably had to do with the stuff on Hastur's tp as well, however, Techpriest's response was a little mean (telling people to piss off is not nice). --Andrew5 (talk) 01:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think Techpriest's response to USHA was quite reasonable. USHA has a history of being extremely divisive with other editors. Adam Warlock (talk) 01:39, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand that USHA was being extremely divisive with other editors, however, I believe civility should be shown to them anyway, especially because all this does is add fuel to an already burning fire. Thank god the one in Colorado was contained. --Andrew5 (talk) 01:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I see no problem with reminding USHA that he is useless to us. 01:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It also doesn't change the fact that he involved himself in a conversation that was none of his goddamn business. Which is quite rude itself. Hence why I think that Techpriest was being reasonable. Adam Warlock (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll admit, because of this, I probably have a small bias towards him, but while I see your points, that doesn't mean I think USHA should be given ad hominem insults. --Andrew5 (talk) 01:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to bother the moderators with this. Unless someone wants to slap a block on him, why not archive?Ariel31459 (talk) 01:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It was an amazing pi months without this kid. 02:13, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Jesus myth theory
Can it please be mod protected? Sysops keep voting on the closed AFD. --Andrew5 (talk) 12:39, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Done -- Techpriest (talk) 12:47, 6 January 2022 (UTC)