RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive121

= Ace McWicked =

Before I press for an interaction ban between him and Oxy. He misgendered her again despite claiming having done it by accident several times already. 18:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Seconding this, Ace’s comments are needlessly rude and I haven’t seen Oxy antagonise Ace at all (at least recently). This comment from Oxy’s recent coop was quickly archived meaning it didn’t get much attention, but was particularly nasty and another example of clearly intentional misgendering. Christopher (talk) 19:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Shit, I missed this, but that diff is absolutely vile. Edit:check the text precedng the changes in the diff. It's the second time he did this. Ace should not be mod. 19:03, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (edit conflicts)Thirding this. Ever since her coop she has been remarkably passive, so I would not treat her like an aggressor here. That is twice now Ace has pretty much come in to stir up drama out of nowhere.-Flandres (talk) 19:04, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking about raising a coup about this. 19:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]It was not just Ace, Helena Bonham Carter and Hastur were acting antagonistic too, but Ace was the worst one out of them. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yup. HBC also has a history of antagonizing Oxy (as well as pretty much everyone, and I think HBC is a genuinely toxic user for the community but that's another topic). 19:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

[https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Oxyaena&diff=2296528&oldid=2296521 Oh and this is also him mocking gender identity of someone. Again, overt transphobia. Ace should be cooped and be removed mod powers.
 * Are you fucking serious? Dear fellow as a comment and engaging in non-sequiters is considered abuse and misgendering. Are you fucking high? AceSimple Maze 19:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You don't have my benefit of doubt. You were told repeatedly to respect someone else's gender identity. You don't get another excuse. 19:20, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Wow - this is a low fucking bar. Dear fellow is now misgendering and abuse? AceSimple Maze 19:22, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Jesus fucking christ - do you really think I am misgendering Oxy as a reason to antagonise? Jesus man, this is a low low bar. AceSimple Maze 19:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's the millionth time Ace has misgendered Oxy and ace has been called out on misgendering Oxy numerous times and yet keeps doing it again and again promising not to yet doing it. An interaction ban between Ace and Oxy is an extreeeeemely wise course of action. Shabi  DOO  19:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Referring to any person as "he/she/it" is extremely concerning and is unacceptable behavior. This should have happened earlier. Plutocow (talk) 19:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I just raised a coop. This doesn't belong here. 19:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

So Ace has a history of "accidentally" misgendering Oxy and based on his recent edits, I think we should do something about it once and for all with a mod revoke. This has been going on for way too long. 19:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I have never misgendered anyone on purpose in my fucking life. AceSimple Maze 19:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Not sure if I would support impeachment based on the evidence presented...but may I suggest an interaction ban with oxy considering they stir up drama almost every time they see each other. It seems to have worked wonders in the Cory/Oxy scenario-the saloon bar is a lot calmer now than it has been for a while.-Flandres (talk) 19:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I was just talking in non-sequiters because I couldn't sleep and wanted to introduce some levity into the conversation. Only the stupidest person would consider anything I said as abusive. AceSimple Maze 19:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In my day to day life I use slang almost exclusively. I refer to almost everyone as either man or dude. Now saying "dear fellow" is purposely misgendering? For fucks sake... AceSimple Maze 19:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not an excuse for referring to a trans person as "it" Plutocow (talk) 19:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (Ec) He was excused for making mistakes initially but after a period of consistent disrespect and callous disregard for term usage, he doesn't have the leeway as he used to. It doesn't help he engaged in blatant transphobic remarks and jokes.
 * Diffs
 * Mocning pronouns
 * Mocking pronouns
 * Iteration of the transphobic attack helicopter joke. (I don't buy the "it's a non sequitur" excuse)
 * 19:30, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, and even more so when this is our first interaction... but, as an LGBT woman, I think this is a bit more problematic than the things Ace said. If you'd like to talk about it, I'm open to it, even if I find that quite distasteful (and I think I'm not very thin-skinned). UninspiringNickname (talk) 16:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ＹＩＫＥＳ 19:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * WTF? Are you fucking high? What the fuck is transphobic about that? Enlighten me.. AceSimple Maze 19:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Fucking hell. What it is the real fucking issue here? I lay in bed spouting random nonsense, get up, drive to work, have my morning wine then log into this shit fest. Again...fucks sake...Do people really think saying "Dear Fellow" is purposeful misgendering for the reason of pissing of Oxy? That's fucking priceless. AceSimple Maze 19:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]The last example isn’t “an iteration of the transphobic attack helicopter joke”. Continually bringing it (along with “dear fellow”) up distracts from the more serious Chicken Coop comments. Christopher (talk) 19:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with Christopher. We should also look at wider trends, not just specific remarks.-Flandres (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Jesus fucking jumping shit those first two diffs are fucking bonkers nasty, I hadn't seen them before. What the fuck is wrong with you Ace? Shabi  DOO  19:34, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What, of anything I have said in the 24 hours is nasty? I don't even know what "transphobic attack helicopter joke" means... and are we religtigating shit that happened some time ago? AceSimple Maze 19:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Christopher : How so? He's basically saying "I have a pineapple that is called Steve and calls himself a woman". It's a variant, maybe not word for word, but it's still the same transphobic punchline that compares trans people to objects. 19:37, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]The old shit wasn’t noticed at the time, it’s the worst example of a trend that’s clearly still ongoing. Christopher (talk) 19:37, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was meant that way, maybe it wasn’t. I think it’s a waste of time having that debate when there are more clear cut examples. Christopher (talk) 19:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure. We can leave it at that. 19:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Are we really this precious that random nonsense spilling from my maw and digging up shit that was long ago archived is now a fucking transphobic helicopter joke (what ever the fuck that means). AceSimple Maze

"But fucking her/him/cunt" is not random nonsense. It is vile. Shabi DOO  19:44, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Calling a female "fellow" is not abusive. Consider how US presidents traditionally address the nation ("My fellow Americans…"). The OED defines fellow as a person, "A partner, companion, or peer of another specified person, and related senses." Calling any person, "it" however is abusive. Bongolian (talk) 19:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

[EC]As I said before, the old archived stuff is the worst example of an obviously still ongoing trend. You seem incapable of leaving Oxy alone. Christopher (talk) 19:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Hence why I think an I-ban is a good path forward. Again, we have a fairly recent precedent for saying this type of penalty works.-Flandres (talk) 19:50, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I would support an interaction ban. Bongolian (talk) 19:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * While I'm no Oxy fan, she hasn't done anything excessively obnoxious since returning from vacation. Well, there was this one thing she did that was suspicious, but anyway.  HBC and Ace got set off because Oxy claimed to have been born Muslim?  Seems a bit excessive.  I would've told them to knock it off myself, but due to IBan it's just in this part of the wiki.  20:03, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I can comment on this, but I don't believe that Ace's remarks were transphobic. Given the context, they sure don't look too good, and I agree that Ace can afford to dial it down. I don't have much problem with an I-ban; it certainly worked for me. However, given Ace is a moderator, this may not be the right thing to do; he may have to engage or comment on the user he is banned from interacting with as part of his duties on the mod team. I certainly don't support kicking him off the mod team. He's a productive mod, hasn't done anything of such severity, and if people don't like his comments, they can vote him out next election. I propose a "soft" I-ban: he can only involve himself with the user when something is brought to the attention of the mod team, or the mod team brings up proposals or votes on policy. IveBeenFrank (talk) 20:05, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * While I agree with your comment, I think this is still objectionable, especially for a moderator. He should be the bigger person rather than act like some sort of troll. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 20:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So hang on - let me get this straight. I've been hauled to the coop for calling someone who identifies as female "dear fellow" and for making weird comments about pineapples. Then old shit which could have been dealt at the time, but never was, is then used to justify this current coop and call for de-modding me? Do I get to now throw Leftymario in the shit because of things they said about me on Discord? Because the fucking level we are on now. Can I go through Oxy's records and pick up shit she said and was never challenged on a coop her? 3 times now... for fucks sake. AceSimple Maze 20:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree it's not worth of a coop. This seems to be making mountains out of molehills.  All you need is for someone to tell you to knock it off.
 * Hey, Ace, Knock it Off. Enjoy this trout.
 * We done here? 20:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No. It's a serious issue. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 20:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean, fucking hell. Seriously. Now just commenting on Oxy's talkpage, with bizarre gibberish about Muslim pineapples and calling her "dear fellow" is enough to get me cooped and potentially removed as mod? Holy fucking shit - what a goddamned fucking asshole thing to do. If you go back a few years you'll find a post wherein I threatened someone with with a Walrus. Let's fucking drag that one out while we are at it. 4 times... for fucks sake. AceSimple Maze 20:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean, fucking hell. Seriously. Now just commenting on Oxy's talkpage, with bizarre gibberish about Muslim pineapples and calling her "dear fellow" is enough to get me cooped and potentially removed as mod? Holy fucking shit - what a goddamned fucking asshole thing to do. If you go back a few years you'll find a post wherein I threatened someone with with a Walrus. Let's fucking drag that one out while we are at it. 4 times... for fucks sake. AceSimple Maze 20:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm friendly with Ace off site, but I agree. He's going way too far in trying to antagonize Oxy. She's done her time and unless she does something worthy of further sanction, no-one should try to intentionally provoke her. Such intentional provoking is behavior unworthy for a mod. Indeed, it's contradictory to what moderators are supposed to do...reduce drama. I wouldn't support stripping Ace of his mod status over this, but it makes me less inclined to vote for him in the next elections. And I would support an interaction ban. 20:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not at all for a soft interaction ban. Another moderator can step in if needed. Shabi  DOO  20:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think a 2-way interaction ban could be useful. The Ace V Oxy saga has been going on for a long time, maybe we should have done this sooner. As for de-modding, Ace hasn't done anything that warrants this. To my knowledge RatWiki has never before stripped someone of their elected mod rights, and I'd be uncomfortable seeing it happen unless abuse of privileges were involved. --RWRW (talk) 20:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)As for what Cory said, I think we should have a vote on a penalty. These two have been a constant source of drama for years, so I am willing to take any shot at settling this. As for what Frank said...well, we do have five other mods.-Flandres (talk) 20:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (EC)It probably would have happened with Ace before, had he not pulled a Nixon and stepped down.


 * But as I mentioned, not in favor of doing that over something this petty. 20:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with RWRW, this has nothing to do with abuse of mod powers. RationalWiki:List of moderators on RationalWiki confirms it’s never happened before. I wouldn’t vote for anyone with an active interaction ban though, especially against Oxy who needs more mod attention than most (past history, plus an active sanction that gives mods the right to block her for “incivility”). Christopher (talk) 20:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This is fucking ridiculous. Absolutely fucking stupid. Random fucking nonsense not even really directed at anyone, if you fucking read it properly. I'm fucking transphobic because I called Oxy "dear fellow"? And shit from the past being used as a cudgel to support this blatantly stupid coop? Un-fucking-real. AceSimple Maze 20:26, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

So... back to the coop between Ace and Oxy. This shit has been going for far too long. Firstly, let's start off with something very clear here; As a mod we have only a few duties (quite different compared to other communities). These being to set up discussion on topics users think important (things like administration of votes), as well as conflict mediation. Ace has ran afoul of this very transparently and without any reasonable doubt; his comment is a complete non-sequitur to the discussion at hand, is arguably transphobic, seems to only exist to piss off Oxy and is the latest in a long streak where he seems to have been consistently unwilling to learn her pronouns or refusing to directly use them when angered.

Interaction banning Ace should be the start, given that this is something that has been going on for at least a year and a half now. That being said, I also am recommending Ace to be stripped of moderation rights out of the following arguments:


 * Ace generally does not use his power as a moderator in any way that requires him being a moderator. He does not mediate conflicts, the most that he seems to do is post shit in the bar. He has explicitly started a completely avoidable conflict (this isn't even the "you just dont agree with me" kinda conflict, its literally pure shit-stirring) in the situation that led to this coop. Inactivity is one thing (and one I can't quite accuse of since I've been busy IRL lately, although my schedule is a lot more freeing from now on), explicitly running amok on your duties is another. Furthermore, Ace has rarely, if ever set up processes or votes.
 * Moderators with interaction bans will by default be less capable of moderating users. After the 2018 election, we also added that if you are sysoprevoked or banned that you cannot run. Based on the seeming motivation here being to avoid twats from becoming moderators, it would only be sensible to prevent users with standing interaction bans from being moderators, given we literally hand those out to people being twats.

Once the coop moves to voting, I will be voting for Ace to be stripped of his moderation rights as well as an indefinite interaction ban between him and Oxyaena. 20:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Un-fucking-real. Trasphobic for referring to someone as "fellow". Like said above - every fucking US president who has addressed the nation as "my fellow Americans" should be stripped of their powers. If you go through my recent history of interacting with Oxy you'll note something interesting. A) I haven't misgenedered her at all as of months ago and B) when I have fallen afoul of that I have corrected it. This is fucking stupid and you should all feel stupid. AceSimple Maze 20:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You ran afoul of starting conflicts up for no reason. I never said anything about fellow or whatever. For me that is far bigger the foucs of this subject (hence arguably). 20:35, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not the problem here, you harass Oxyaena and that has been going on for a long time. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 20:37, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So me merely commenting with random bullshit, not even directed at anyone in particular, on Oxy's talkpage is considered abuse? Fucking hell man, again, we are setting a low low bar. AceSimple Maze 20:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]You’ve made the same comment about three times now. You’re constantly antagonising Oxy, misgendering (both real and imagined, I agree the latest diffs don’t amount to much) is only part of it. Christopher (talk) 20:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Ace is constantly talking about "fellow" but never seems to mention "it". It feels like a strawman of our position. Plutocow (talk) 20:39, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If you actually read what I wrote I even made it clear to Oxy that I wasn't accusing her of anything or abusing her in the slightest. I woke up at 3am, couldn't sleep, made a few random fucking comments, get to work at 8am, drink some wine and get ready to go about my day but this fucking shit pops up? Are you fucks really this precious. Look into my most recent talkpage archive. Oxy comes a along and made some shitty comment but did I fucking wail about it, bring her to the coop? Fucking priceless. And bringing out shit that happened over a month ago? Jesus fucking wept. AceSimple Maze 20:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Then what the fuck were your comments meant to be in the first place. "I once had this pineapple called Steve and Steve was once a female Muslim too. Then I ate him. He tasted ok, all things considered." This is in a thread about Oxy having been raised in a muslim family. Like, explain to me how the fuck else am I meant to read this as other than you making a non-sequitur comment designed to just kick up shit or devolve the discussion. You should not be doing this sort of shit as a moderator, this is the antithesis of what a moderator should do. 20:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]That was 3 months ago, and an interaction ban would prevent Oxy from doing it as they’re always two-way. Christopher (talk) 20:46, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * IBans are always two-way to avoid one side from gloating about it to the other. 20:46, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So you are saying that commenting, in a manner that wasn't even abusive, on Oxy's talkpage is a coop case? AceSimple Maze 20:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * On its own it wouldn’t be. Christopher (talk) 20:49, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Anyone who knows their comedy would realise that some of what I said was lifted straight from The Young Ones while the comment about my girlfriend is the punchline to a joke. AceSimple Maze 20:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * http://crazyhyena.com/funny-captions-Schrodingers-douchebag-offensive-things MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 20:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah - sure. That's what I did. Fucking moron. I've been spouting the same shit for 12 years on RW. You'd think by now someone would actually notice that "Ace is just a dick and/or unhinged. I don't "decide" whether something is a joke or not based around how people act. Like I said - I have been here 12 years and never once have I given a fuck about pretending to not be offensive. AceSimple Maze 20:58, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If you were just a sysop, then it would just have been an ATIM case. The case in isolation isn't warranting of a coop case either. However, your long history of being a dickhead to Oxy, even beyond the reasonable cases where it's warranted make this just the latest in a long string of incidents. That makes it only possible for me to read this statement as an attempt to stir up shit or to devolve a legitimate discussion into something pointless. You posting while drunk is not an excuse for this. You are at least for now a moderator. That means you are in part an example for the community to follow. Your actions here are the furthest from an example to follow and runs afoul of your duties to be a mediator in conflicts. For this reasoning, you should not be a moderator. 20:57, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That means you are in part an example for the community to follow. Nope. That ain't right dawg. AceSimple Maze 21:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes that is right dawg. Moderators are community leaders, and therefore examples of good users by definition. 21:08, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No that's fucking not right. Show me where A) Mods are expected to be community leaders. The mods are specifically not community leaders - as enshrined on the mod rulebook (for lack of a better term). Secondly I have once and only once abused my mod powers and it was fucking years and years ago. Sorry fucko - you ain't right. AceSimple Maze 21:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's inferred. It doesn't need to be shown, it is literally the reason we have mods: To tackle problems the site has. This is not possible if the mod in question is being a problem. That by definition makes moderators community leaders. Community leader here is in the sense that you are an exemplary user who doesn't cause problems. Not in the sense that your voice has more weight than that of other users or that you get special pleading (also, you don't want to go down this path, since your comment would have been reverted and would have led to a short term block had you been a BON or a new user since it's virtually indistinguishable from regular trolling). The IBan between you and Oxy is one that needs to happen just to prevent this from happening again. The removal of mod rights is something that should happen because this is the furthest from how you should behave as a moderator. 21:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's inferred? Well fuck that noise because it is fucking bullshit. I am a regular user until such time as I take mod action. AceSimple Maze 21:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It isn't bullshit. It's what you signed up for when running as a mod. Every other moderator we have seems to understand this, except for you. 21:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It is fucking bullshit. I have been elected mod 5 or 6 times, have been here 12 years and fucking help write the fucking mod guidelines. But sure, I'm the one who is wrong. AceSimple Maze 21:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * False appeal to authority. Your age as a user and time as a mod here doesn't have anything to do with this. It is inferred based on the simple logic that if you write a page with rules and guidelines for users to follow and then you ask people to enforce those rules and guidelines, then the people who enforce those rules and guidelines shouldn't be the ones breaking those rules and guidelines. Otherwise, those rules and guidelines might as well be thrown in the bin and we can give ourselves the ability to act with impunity. What you did was talkpage trolling. The only reason you didn't get short-term blocked and we're doing this in the coop now is because of your history with Oxy and the fact that you are a moderator. If you were not a moderator, you would probably have to consider facing a short term block by now (a week, if not more) as well as an interaction ban (the latter of whom is probably gonna happen anyway). 21:55, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not an appeal to authority. It's an appeal to the fucking mod rules. And nowhere do they mention that mods can't pithy, and clearly unoffensive and not even remotely transphobic, on someones talk page. AceSimple Maze 22:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't care about transphobic argument here in case you didn't notice (it's arguable, I don't think it's a solid enough angle to move forward on). You started shit and trolled her talkpage. Your claim for being on this site for 12 years/being elected mod several times and having written the mod guidelines is an appeal to your authority, which is a false claim since it has no bearing here. Whether or not it is in the mod rules isn't important, it's the role a mod goddamn plays on this site. We are here to assist in enforcing of the rules and tackling problems on the site. We can't do that if we are being a problem on the site. Like, I have no idea how I can get this through your head, but someone who enforces the rules can't go around and break the rules themselves. That's hypocrisy and makes us seem like we run on a notion of "do the mods like you, if yes, then we let bad behavior slide", which is Conservapedia style moderating. And by the gods I just hope that we are better mods than fucking Karajou. 22:14, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * OK - which rules did I break? AceSimple Maze 22:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

[EC]You’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the most recent comments in my opinion. On their own they amount to nothing, this is about a long-running conflict. Christopher (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Long-term trolling: Constantly being disruptive despite being told to stop or having comments collapsed, especially after being short-term banned, can be ground for longer bans, typically week-months long. As Christopher says; this isn't just about the most recent incident. It's because of your long history of doing this kinda shit when it comes to Oxy that makes you violate this rule. 22:22, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * [EC]Hardly applies here. You can’t decide to lift jokes from somewhere the fact. Christopher (talk) 20:58, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Dear fellows,


 * Having read thru the above, I saw only four cases of Ace being nasty, only two of which I'd consider questionable. In my short time here, majority of Ace's interaction towards Oxy that I have seen has been reasonably fair, and/or relatively lighthearted. I'm unconvinced this warrants an interaction ban.


 * Kind regards,


 * Kauri0.o (talk) 23:20, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Oxy retired

 * Well, Oxy just retired. Can we say the whole thing is moot at this point?  21:06, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Because she has never retired only to quickly come back before. Even if this was permanent, as Gutless Raven showed us we must not stop coops just because somebody involved has retired.-Flandres (talk) 21:08, 11 March 2021 (UTC)+
 * Oh yeah - something terrible happened again which in several hours will be forgotten and never referenced again until the next time. Fucking shit this whole fucking thing. AceSimple Maze 21:08, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not gonna close coops on self-proclaimed retirements of users. We used to do that; all it gives people is a cheap out of punishments at risk of mockery if they do it. Oxy also didn't file the case, LGM did. She hasn't involved herself with the case so far yet either. 21:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. If User A is in the coop for bad behavior with User B and User A "retires", that shouldn't matter.  But if B retires, then it's a moot point.  And if B retires only to come back, well, shouldn't have "retired".  21:14, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The coop is used to address problems between community members, those which often can be indicative of a greater problem (after all, the coop is our final resolution, ATIM is more for the day to day cases). Closing it because the filer retires would allow us to dodge the necessary self-inflection that might be required to proceed the case properly. In any case, in your situation, Oxy would be User C. LGM filed the case, not Oxy. 21:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Honestly, this coop should not end until votes are counted. Too many users have expressed dissatisfaction with Aces conduct.-Flandres (talk) 21:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This coop wasn't about Ace's interactions with LGM though. LGM is User C, trying to separate User A and B.  B retired (and yes I know Oxy will likely come back, but if she wants to retire I will take her at her word).  Unless that retirement was as the result of User A being excessively mean and chasing off B, which could indicate future harassment of Users J, P and Y, an IBan is kinda pointless.  21:22, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * How convenient! You take Oxy at her word on retiring precisely when it suits your agenda! Why are you so fixated on ending a coop case the majority of users here expressing themselves think needs to happen?-Flandres (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * While Ace's comments were clearly vile and borderline transphobic, I wouldn't support an impeachment; but I would support an interaction ban though, like we did with Oxy+Cory and Oxy+Frank. Impeaching a mod over anything other than doxxing or a clear abuse of tools could set a really scary precedent IMHO. But if he does get promoted I wouldn't shed a tear, seeing his truly damning comments on Oxy's identity as a transgender. -- Goatspeed. 21:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Which comments? The ones from today or the ones I said ages OK which weren't actioned against at the time and were said in a seething manner after Oxy lied about a friend commiting suicide? AceSimple Maze 21:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (ec) Presumably the reason mods are elected is to hold them accountable to the community, and if the community feels they are not doing a proper job as a mod, recalling them should be a valid option. Plutocow (talk) 21:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It’s already an option, you can vote for another candidate in the election (as I’ll be doing). I don’t think removing Ace via coop is necessary. Christopher (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I shall censure and campaign against him as well this fall. -- Goatspeed. 21:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * When someone says "Secondly I have once and only once abused my mod powers and it was fucking years and years ago. Sorry fucko - you ain't right." it gives me no reason to defend them in any way. How is he still a mod to this day? This is unacceptable. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 21:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * He was elected again despite that abuse, whatever it was. No need to dredge it up. Christopher (talk) 21:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, a prime example of the argument from "oh bloody hell that was years ago" fallacy. -- Goatspeed. 21:42, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to dredge up that time that Ace abused his power here. It carries no meaning on the present situation. Oxy wasn't even around back then. 21:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The tone is also something that really makes me question why he's a mod, there is nothing about that screams professionalism, it only screams like an edgelord from a Youtube comment section. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 21:49, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Since when did RationalWiki require professionalism? Can’t we focus on the actual issue here? Christopher (talk) 21:50, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah was is nonsense about professionalism? I already have a job and a staff and an office - why on earth would I need to be professional here? AceSimple Maze 21:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "Fellow" is a unisex term. It could mean boy or man, but it could also mean a female belonging to the same group as the speaker using the term. Of course I don't believe she was ever a Muslim. That's just me I suppose. UncleKrampus (talk) 21:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I've gotten worked up at Ace before about his demeanor towards Oxy. However, most of his comments presented here are simple "Ace being his usual dickish self" rather than transphobia. Or at least that's the way I see it. I'd support an interaction ban since Ace really has singled out Oxy to an unprofessional degree, but I think impeachment is a bit much at this time. 22:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not a dick. I am a lovable, though highly strung, scamp who doesn't get enough sleep. AceSimple Maze 22:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This is incredibly stupid, someone is getting de moded for calling another user fellow. on other sites fellow is about the nicest thing you'll ever be called. Commie Lib (talk) 02:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Way to not read the entire thread. Plutocow (talk) 02:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (EC)Ignore the fact that most people who agreed with sanctioning ace did not say that was their reason, citied other comments they thought were transphobic, or claimed it was for another reason entirely while saying Lefty was clutching at straws with the "fellow" nontroversey. The "ace is being demoded for calling somebody fellow" argument used here is quite the impressive strawman. Oh, and do read a coop before you comment please.-Flandres (talk) 02:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I did and found nothing but minor insults as a reason. If insults are a good enough reason for punishment Oxy isn't blameless either. Commie Lib (talk) 02:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You do realize she was blocked for a month with with her tendency to baselessly insult others as a cited reason? And that she has not acted up since that block expired?-Flandres (talk) 02:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes and I don't think that should have occurred either. Unless it's death threats or doxxing I don't see the reason in banning for insults. To me it's petty and thin skinned. Commie Lib (talk) 02:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Fortunately nobody has suggested blocking Ace yet, and I would vote against that if it were proposed. This is about A) an interaction ban (which I do support) and B) some sort of Mod recall election (which I am not sold on). This "purge" narrative is weak, get a better one.-Flandres (talk) 02:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes I know no one says Ace should be banned but getting your mod revoked is also a big deal and I feel like those to are equivalent in severity. Commie Lib (talk) 02:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * And I would like to point out how widely condemned it has been and how it has little chance at happening. It's a fringe option which some people are giving undue weight.-Flandres (talk) 02:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * “Retired” Christopher (talk) 21:14, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

arbitrary break
We all know that Oxy will be coming back. Not resolving this now is stupid. Tomorrow we will vote on an interaction ban which is the most sensible thing we could possibly do. I don't think Ace should be sanctioned in any other way. We just have to wait until the next election and see how many users are entertained by his dickishness enough to vote him back in as mod or not. Shabi DOO  22:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * How would impeachment even work? Is it a simple majority? 22:21, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * According to MOB, it would be simple majority, as is anything else other than a vote on a block. Personally I’d say it’s the sort of thing that needs a 2/3 majority regardless of the rules, you’re overturning a previous vote that carries more weight than a coop. Christopher (talk) 22:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you going to edit the community standards to that effect? Or are we going to have the "originalist versus organic" debate (as I like to call it) over them again?-Flandres (talk) 22:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I’ll vote against the proposal when the time comes and that’s it. Changing the voting procedure would just be a way of voting twice, it’s not a discussion worth having (how would you define what’s deserving of a 2/3s vote if you change the current system?) and definitely shouldn’t be done halfway through a coop. Christopher (talk) 22:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * RationalWiki talk:Community Standards Kauri0.o (talk) 00:41, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

For the record
When I called Oxy "him/her/it" I was absolutely furious given she, you know, said someone killed themselves who, whoops, didn't which is fucking disgusting. As someone who has lost friends to suicide, seen family members struggle with depression and my own challenges with bi-polar disorder including, at times, severe suicidal thoughts bringing my comments up from back then with no fucking context is bullshit. Now you bastards are hauling me here for almost no reason and just because I called Oxy "dear fellow" and made weird statements about pineapples without making a singe abusive comment is also...fucking bullshit. AceSimple Maze 03:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's no excuse for using a transphobic slur. Would you justify referring to R. Kelly as the n-word? Plutocow (talk) 03:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not now nor have ever been transphobic. Context matters. AceSimple Maze 03:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Referring to a trans person as "it" is transphobic regardless of your intentions. Plutocow (talk) 03:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So why did no one call me out? I made no secret of my anger at her. This could have been done fucking weeks ago. AceSimple Maze 03:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That happened right before archiving, and no one noticing it does not make it okay. I'd be more forgiving of you if you were willing to acknowledge you made a mistake, but it seems to me you've learned nothing since making that comment. Plutocow (talk) 03:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What the fuck are you talking about? I’ve made no statement of abuse towards Oxy since then. Sure I’m sorry if someone was offended but today’s cooping is a fucking joke. AceSimple Maze 03:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If you still can't see what was wrong with that post, you haven't learned anything. "I’m sorry if someone was offended" doesn't sound like a real apology. Plutocow (talk) 03:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don’t need to convince and apologise in the way you want me to. Fuck you if don’t think it’s an apology. And today’s cooping is a fucking joke. AceSimple Maze 03:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I’m now down to thinking we should give Ace a collective shaking of the finger for the “it” business and end this there. This coop is a mess. 08:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Assuming I deliberately lied about that is very fucking bad faith. — Oxyaena Harass  09:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised moose that you of all people would distil everything that has been said so far as just an "it" which you know is not the case. This is about multiple cases of Ace antagonising and blatantly insulting and provoking Oxy for no reason, misgendering her (including referring to her as her/him/cunt (as one of the more vile examples) and in my opinion just as bad being defensive and not even once for one second admitting there was even a touch of insensitivity or pointless dickishness in any of this. Do you really think that allowing Ace to continue provoking and insulting Oxy and misgendering theatrics with Oxy is wise? Shabi  DOO  09:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Just so everyone is up to date - I said a mean thing to Oxy weeks, if not months, ago and have generally been quiet (though I go through recent changes more than once a day) on wiki. Then I woke up super early Friday, 3am NZT. I made a few very benign but apparently outrageous comments comments such as calling Oxy fellow once. An old post of mine was flagged when Oxy said someone she knew closely had had killed themselves as a fair state of fact but recanted. I have had friends go through with, family members who attempted and my own struggle with depression. So I was justifiably pretty fucking pissed off. And saying what was said was completely ignored at the time. This retrospective bullshit anbout how it got archived too quickly to see it is just fucking nonsense. That should bring everyone up to speed. AceSimple Maze 10:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Two weeks ago on the "all things in moderation page" pretty much the moment Oxy's ban was done you pointlessly provoked and insulted her for no reason: "Yeah we don't do random bannings based on 'hunches' (unless you're Oxy and even then someone will still revert it because Oxy is a scumbag". Several admins and other users commented on it and noted that it was uncalled for and unhelpful and then you told me to fuck off for calling you out on it. It was by no means the first time you've pointlessly provokes or insulted her, it obviously wasn't the last and it is extremely unlikely you will ever leave Oxy alone. Shabi  DOO  11:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I have run out of time for this. I’ve said all I can and needed to say a few times over now. I have nothing further to add. I’m tired. AceSimple Maze 11:31, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Told you so
Oh, so now we're proposing ANOTHER interaction band between Oxyaena and another user? How many interaction bans does Oxyaena need?-Hastur! (talk) 06:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Victim blaming much? Plutocow (talk) 06:52, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * lol-Hastur! (talk) 06:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * For fucks sake - this still going on? Jesus man, I said absolutely nothing abusive to Oxy at all. I did when I was fucking mad at her for the whole suicide thing but me waking up at 3am and spinning fables about pineapples and quoting The Young Ones is somehow considered abuse now? AceSimple Maze 07:01, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It is called "drive-by trolling" and yes that's abusive if done repeatedly and especially by a moderator. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If wanna go via my contribs then pick them out over the these first 3 months 2021 where I have excessively trolled Oxy. I’ll wait and answer to each example. AceSimple Maze
 * MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 13:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Way to not read the entire coop here Hastur. Thing here is that Ace is the instigator this time, not Oxy escalating the situation. 13:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ace this is the summation of numerous interactions which are not just limited to you provoking her but also pointlessly insulting her and misgendering her and is not limited to the last three months (why should it be only the last three months?) Many examples have already been cited...copy and paste ALL OF THEM and explain them as you like including the truly vile ones. I would be very curious how you stand by her/him/cunt. You've already stood by everything you've been called out for so what is the point of this exercise we already know you think you've done nothing wrong ever and that your responses are: pfff I was just being a little mean, I didn't mean to misgender her all those 20 times, I was tired, I was just being silly, but but she IS a scumbag and fuck-you I'll say what I want. Shabi  DOO 13:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * By “ we already know you think you've done nothing wrong ever” you mean apart from the time when I stood down as mod, blocked myself and apologised to the community while handing my crat rights in years before mods were a thing then yea, outside those clear examples of me accepting wrong doing and relive myself of what ever user right I had at the time ? On numerous occasions. Yeah apart from those times I’ve acted like I did nothing wrong. If you think I am misgendering on purpose you’d be wrong. -AceSimple Maze 13:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This is all very silly, and not in a particularly entertaining way. Since when are we not allowed to make fun of Oxyaena anymore?  She said something stupid.  We called her out on it.  End of story-Hastur! (talk)  15:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What did she say that was stupid? None of what she said was stupid, you just decided to be a dick to her for no reason whatsoever. That is not the only issue here, as for Ace, it certainly came down to harassment since he does it way too much for it to be healthy. Drive-by trolling is condemnable, but not a big deal if done once or twice, but Ace has antecedents, and very nasty ones at that, that's why I mentioned you earlier but raised no chicken coop against you because, at the very least, you know how to control yourself. Additionally, he is a damn moderator, he should be the bigger person, but here he acts exactly like an alt-right edgelord type. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 16:08, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * American converts to Islam are always silly, first of all. Second of all, that she issued that statement in a seeming attempt to speak on behalf of Muslim women is doubly silly.  Her experience is in no way indicative of the experiences of the majority of Muslim women.  Also, moderators are elected.  If you don't like Ace's style, don't vote for him in the next election.-Hastur! (talk)  20:01, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * alt-right edgelord type where the fuck did you get that nonsense from? Alt-right? Me? Are you fucking high? AceSimple Maze 21:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Of course Ace is a lout. That's one of the reasons people like/despise him. Do you like to visit new places and get to know new people to broaden your perspective and enrich your understanding? Well get on with it buddy! No ones stopping you. See you when you get back.UncleKrampus (talk) 19:16, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Minor suggestion
Could there be a RW 'generic pronoun' which covers all genders (which can be used for IP-address-contributors as well)? This might solve some issues (including 'those of us who don't really care enough to be bothered one way or the other). Anna Livia (talk) 15:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * They/Them/Theirs. That or "Beep/bop/boop"...  15:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 'Certain persons' ask specifically for the 'they' grouping. There is also 'ze'. Anna Livia (talk) 15:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * They/them works just fine if you don't know. That said, if someone inquires you to use something specific you should follow and respect that. Otherwise, you can also try phrasing stuff in such a way that you don't have to bother with pronouns, but as a general "don't be an asshole" is the guiding principle here. 15:52, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You can use they/them in their singular form, I do this all the time (Or most, sometimes I forget). MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 15:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "They" is good enough, I'm not memorizing who gets what pronouns otherwise. 18:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Calling a man or a woman "they" is a tad dehumanising, I think. And I would guess that even more so if they're transexual men or women. UninspiringNickname (talk) 16:15, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * And if they are a transman, he gets "he/him/his".  16:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's the most ridiculous thing said in this entire coop. They has been around as a neutral pronoun for over 500 years, there is nothing "dehumanizing" about it. Honestly, they being dehumanizing sounds like a TERF talking point. Plutocow (talk) 17:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if it offends you, but I'll just repeat my first comment in case you didn't catch everything the first time: "Calling a man or a woman "they" is a tad dehumanising, I think. And I would guess that even more so if they're transexual men or women."
 * Besides my own personal friends, the same sentiment can be widely found online from transexual men and women. Minor point: I'm not a native speaker, but even I can tell there is definitely a difference in the historical usage of "they" and the one that is being discussed here. They was used as a singular pronoun when you didn't know who the person was, male or female. Whereas here it seems to be proposed as the default pronoun even if you do know the user is a man or woman. Yes, it is dehumanising for both cis/trans men/women in those cases. It takes away a part of their integral selves. I'm actually a TIRF, if you're interested. UninspiringNickname (talk) 20:23, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That would be ridiculous, no one’s suggesting it. Christopher (talk) 20:26, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * How about we stick to preferred pronouns here. If someone requests they be addressed as whatever, we respect that. Shouldn't be too hard.
 * I live in a country where, in our native language, we refer to each other (in third person) as "it" all the time. But I'm willing to adjust when switching to another language. Maybe everyone should do the same and fucking grow up. 20:36, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you're replying to me - if so, then it looks like I misunderstood the proposal. That being the case, I withdraw my ill-informed comments. But please assume idiocy before bad-faith :-( UninspiringNickname (talk) 20:45, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn’t take Anna Livia’s “proposals” too seriously. People were just saying that “they” works fine when you don’t know someone’s gender, pretty inoffensive stuff. Christopher (talk) 20:48, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think Anna Livia is a very serious person, and I mean that as a compliment. Her approach to editing here seems fairly tongue in cheek. 21:04, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Should we raise a chicken coop against Helena Bonham Carter, alongside Ace?
I wanna raise a coop for Helena Bonham Carter for the following reasons:
 * Has antecedents of troll-ish behavior and harassment, has notably created a discussion mocking the fact that Oxyaena is an ex-muslim woman on her own talkpage. Additionally, she often brings up an old edit Oxy made on Wikipedia for no reason other than to mock Oxy, assuming that is her intent. https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ariel31459&diff=prev&oldid=2262215
 * Does not do anything productive to the wiki besides gossiping (See her user contributions), not a single edit on mainspace.

I believe her presence will bring nothing positive to RationalWiki and should be dealt with. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:46, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * “Not being productive” and a bit of shit-stirring isn’t coop-worthy. No one would be suggesting this if it wasn’t for Ace’s coop. Christopher (talk) 19:50, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Let Carter see this as a warning instead. If he still keeps up his conduct in spite of this, we can talk about coops and such.-Flandres (talk) 19:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * HBC sometimes adds good WIGOs etc. HBC from time to time has something insightful to say so I don't agree HBC is entirely unproductive. Though an interaction ban wouldn't be an insane idea as literally nothing good ever comes from the two interacting. Shabi  DOO  19:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * HBC is not a Sysop (for good reason). Just give the person a short block for shit-stirring or trolling. Bongolian (talk) 19:57, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Weren't their rights recently given back though?-Flandres (talk) 20:04, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Checked the logs. SysopRevoke removed by Ace back in October, Sysop returned on Jan 14th by Kevlarstar, Sysop removed 20 minutes later by Bongo.  20:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Can't be arsed to find the diff, but I'm pretty sure HBC has made clear that she doesn't even want a mop. The sysoprevoke put on her by LGM was just basic vindictive bullshit. 20:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it came off as such, but if my memory was correct I did tell HBC to knock off with the attitude several times and they didn't listen so I figured a demop and ban would make HBC listen. Sysoprevoke was to enforce the thing, help other people block HBC for behavior, and to make sure someone with sympathies don't try to reinstill rights without discussion and a potential user rights warring first. Hope this clears up a bit even if my actions there weren't justified. 20:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I take your side against HBC any day. But she had never had a mop in the first place and wouldn't (until that lovely Kevlarstar gave her one briefly). So mostly unnecessary sysoprevoke I'd say, though I don't hold that against you. 20:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to sanction HBC at the time of writing. I've told them off plenty of times and something tells me that I will probably do so in the future as well. For now however, none of their behavior would warrant any more sanctions than those we applied in the past. 20:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The example provided, while it shows incivility and grounds for a slap on the wrist, does not make fun of her for allegedly being an ex-Muslim (and instead suggests that she might be lying, which might be the case as Oxy does this shit a lot for sympathy). So I see no reason to sysrevoke HBC- which would be pointless anyway since as others have pointed out, she is not a sysop. -- Goatspeed. 21:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She is also practically the only really funny troll on this farm. She's a keeper.UncleKrampus (talk) 21:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Yeah especially since we banned Ken and nobs for going too far with their bigoted views. -- Goatspeed. 21:44, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Technically Ken shouldn’t have been banned, the vote to ban him was one short of the 2/3 majority that’s needed according to site policy. That ship has sailed now though, I imagine that the vote would pass if held today in light of his ban evading sockpuppetry. Christopher (talk) 21:46, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Eh, the community standards were not seen as graven inviolable commandments then like they are now. I should know-I voted to acquit him!-Flandres (talk) 21:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * God do you just want to go full on great purge now? Commie Lib (talk) 02:10, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not a strawman in sight!-Flandres (talk) 02:30, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The community standards are still just guidelines. Changing them to hard and fast rules would require another vote. When I permabanned Ken, I did not break any rules. Spud (talk) 05:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Honey, it’s the middle of the month, time to relitigate the Ken ban! 08:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's the first time another dude's called me "honey". Spud (talk) 11:01, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Calling Oxyaena out for saying goofy shit is not coop-worthy-Hastur! (talk) 06:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Can we add HBC's harassment of to the list of offenses here? — Oxyaena Harass  18:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Seriously, don't you guys have better things to do?
This almost reminds me of silly squabbles from my middle/high school days. I thought you guys are too busy finding reasons to prove that Trump is some evil Russia-colluding fascist dictator??? –Unclescrooge (talk) 22:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Little help
Could I borrow a lolwut off someone, please? Mine are all belong to Oxy. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 01:56, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Shall we open a vote?
The required 24 hours have passed...-Flandres (talk) 19:31, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Alright, let‘s vote: Block/ban for Ace
All sanctions are comulative. Pi days plus pi months equals pi days PLUS pi months etc. Per the community standards, blocks require a 2/3 majority.

Nay

 * 1) Nah. Too much drama.  19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I’d vote no on this even if I supported a ban, it’s just petty. Christopher (talk) 19:56, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) -Hastur! (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Shabi  DOO  20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Bongolian (talk) 20:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Blocks aren't needed. The only one that would maybe be appropriate is a 9 hour block, and we're well past that timeframe for it to do anything. 20:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Absurd. 20:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) No. Ace simply needs to be told to knock off trying to send inflammatory messages to Oxy. 00:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 11) No Commie Lib (talk) 03:27, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 12) Spud (talk) 04:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 13) Ban everyone and shut the site down. Nutty Roux (talk) 12:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 14) Weirdly Nutty's "Ban everyone" suggestion still doesn't include himself or Ace. But Ace has done nothing ban worthy. 13:08, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Look at his user profile if you haven't done so already and have a good laugh. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 13:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Excessive. -- Goatspeed. 01:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) This is not within the realm of reason, sorry. I don't think it even warrants a reasoned response. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:25, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Nay

 * 1) Porque? 19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Ace’s problem is his interactions with Oxy, an interaction ban deals with that just fine. There’s no need for any block. Christopher (talk) 20:01, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) -Hastur! (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Shabi  DOO  20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) nopKevlarstar  Ping!  20:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Bongolian (talk) 20:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Blocks aren't needed. 20:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) Absurd. 20:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 11) No Commie Lib (talk) 03:26, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 12) Spud (talk) 04:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 13) Ban everyone and shut the site down. Nutty Roux (talk) 12:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 14) Ace has done nothing ban worthy. 13:08, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 15) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 16) Excessive. -- Goatspeed. 01:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 17) This cannot be serious. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:27, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Nay

 * 19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Still too long. Kevlarstar  Ping!  19:41, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) As I said above, I don’t think a block is necessary. Christopher (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) -Hastur! (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Shabi  DOO  20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Bongolian (talk) 20:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Blocks aren't needed. 20:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Very absurd. 20:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:16, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) No Commie Lib (talk) 03:27, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 11) Spud (talk) 04:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 12) Ban everyone and shut the site down. Nutty Roux (talk) 12:29, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 13) Ace has done nothing ban worthy. 13:08, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 14) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 15) Excessive. -- Goatspeed. 01:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 16) This is even less serious. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) Too long. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Nay

 * 1) wut 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Overkill. Kevlarstar  Ping!  19:41, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Christopher (talk) 19:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) -Hastur! (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Shabi  DOO  20:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Bongolian (talk) 20:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Insane and not needed. 20:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) Very, very absurd. 20:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In der Tat. Kevlarstar  Ping!  07:35, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) wot. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:16, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) No Commie Lib (talk) 03:27, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Spud (talk) 04:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Ban everyone and shut the site down. Nutty Roux (talk) 12:30, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Ace has done nothing ban worthy. 13:08, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Excessive. -- Goatspeed. 01:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) I'd vote for a permakeep, actually. Ace is a serious asset to this wiki and this is beyond ungrateful. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:30, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) Excessive. 20:45, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Goat

 * 1) How long do you have to be on the wiki to vote? 3 months, 6 months, a year? Asking for a friend for myself, I have been active here for a while, so I know how the procedures here work. Why are my votes ineligible this time? MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:52, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Three months and 75 edits, according to MOB. Christopher (talk) 19:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So you can vote on 25 April. (Your account was created on 25 January.) Kevlarstar  Ping!  19:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) Excessive. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Two Way interaction ban with

 * Important notice: Oxy has personally asked me to permanently block and rename her account as a way to enforce a stricter LANCB. I suggest letting this vote run until expiration still however. 22:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4 days later, Oxy wants her account back. you might want to change your vote. Christopher (talk) 19:22, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Aye

 * 1) Shabi  DOO  19:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Are we finally on the verge of ending the Ace/Oxy drama which has plagued the wiki for, what, two years?-Flandres (talk) 19:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Yes. Also I'm apparently an eligible voter now, so... JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 19:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Despite Ace being the primary instigator recently, both parties need this. Christopher (talk) 20:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Mother of god yes. Even if anything else doesn't pass, IBANning these two will hopefully put to rest what is the fucking longest pointless drama conflict on the wiki. 20:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Bongolian (talk) 20:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) --RWRW (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Keep in mind, this instance is not the fault of Oxyaena. This is entirely on Ace who cannot resist acting like a thug toward someone who made a claim that may be silly or not. Ace was told constantly to stop this behavior, for two years now, and every request is usually met with a shrug and flippant dismissal. 22:14, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) both of them deserve punishment, i've been casually aware of this since fucking months, maybe even a year ago, and the fact that this community doesn't do anything against these two, clear, toxic users and is still deciding how to deal with them is baffling. bap them both and get it over with. 02:45, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Heed what your sister said, I haven't done anything wrong this time and have largely cleaned up my act. — Oxyaena Harass  12:38, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) — Oxyaena  Harass  12:40, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) No more drama! IveBeenFrank (talk) 12:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Considering that mods were granted a right to block Oxy for incivility, and the fact that ace (while being a mod) continues to prod her incessantly, this is only fair. 13:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) End this drama -- Goatspeed. 01:06, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) I'm tired of this shit. 18:55, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Sufficient for now. 20:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Popping in to say this. 15:47, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Since that would also include forbidding them from saying nasty things about each other and since there are other Mods that can handle any issues involving Oxyaena, not the least of which being me, this has my vote. Spud (talk) 05:25, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Against

 * 1) -At this point it would make more sense just to have an interaction ban between Oxyaena and the rest of the wiki...-Hastur! (talk) 20:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What did I even do wrong here? — Oxyaena Harass  12:40, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Just slap Ace upside the head, call it a day... 20:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) We're not solving the problem by pretending it doesn't exist. GeeJayK (talk) 20:43, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) I've since changed my mind on this. It doesn't sit right with me to iBan a sitting mod. 20:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This just sets us up for the next incident where one of these ends up provoking the other. We have plenty of other mods to deal with an unruly Oxy besides Ace (who frankly only causes vitriol whenever he has to deal with Oxy). This is our chance to put it to rest once and for all. 21:05, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes Duce, Ace's bullying, insults, provocations, vileness and mis-gengendering is something we must sadly tolerate...because if Oxy does act up...there aren't four other admins to step in and do something if necessary. Shabi  DOO  22:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Is my misgendering really a problem here? I’ve been fucking on point on Oxy’s gender for... quite some time and have deliberately changed my comments to suit when required. Remember - this started from me using the word “fellow”. Are you guys fucking high? AceSimple Maze 03:39, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Still doesn’t seem right to me. With so many conflicts around Oxy, an iban would greatly hamper Ace’s ability to act as a mod. 00:27, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not the iban that's hampering with Ace's ability to act as mod, it's Ace's attitude that's hampering his ability. Look at the reasons the iban is proposed. Look at Ace's general behavior in the coop when criticized for his behavior. It's from his behavior and inability to deescalate or at least don't participate in conflicts especially as part of a vendetta other users perceive from you. 02:08, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I would agree completely if I thought Ace's conduct was bad enough to warrant an iban. But I've just seen two instances of Ace being his usual dickish self a month ago and then Ace going on some ramble about pineapples more recently. It'd be different if I thought Ace were being transphobic, but he's respected Oxy's identity otherwise and has denied all accusations of transphobia. 04:35, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) What Hastur suggested makes more sense.Ariel31459 (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Ace is ace.&mdash; Unsigned, by: Scream!! / talk / contribs 21:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Naw. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) I'm tired of people trying to weaponise spurious claims of transphobia to effect change they know would never happen otherwise. They should probably knock it off with that shit. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 17:23, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Nutty Roux (talk) 12:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Ace's comments are so minor in the scheme of things. The common denominator is obvious. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Interaction bans are two-way. If you think Oxy is a problem, that’s still a reason to vote yes. Christopher (talk) 20:55, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As Hastur states - lets "have an interaction ban between Oxyaena and the rest of the wiki". Kauri0.o (talk) 21:12, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What exactly did I do wrong here? — Oxyaena Harass  21:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Isn't "lets [sic] have an interaction ban between Oxyaena and the rest of the wiki" an example of the Slippery Slope fallacy? Plutocow (talk) 21:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I see it as an exaggeration. We've had two interaction bans, voting on two more. It would surprise me if these are the last. Kauri0.o (talk) 01:53, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe another way to put it is - how many cases does there have to be for it to not-be a case of slippery slope? ie to demonstrate A does, in fact, lead to B? I'd argue these are enough. Kauri0.o (talk) 01:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Interaction banning four users is by no means comparable to banning everybody, that's like saying we banned Michael Coombs, Godless Raven, Ken, and EIK, so why don't we permaban everyone? This should be judged by the merits of this case alone. Plutocow (talk) 02:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As per my original comment, and whether or not this is a slippery slope, I don't believe this case warrants interaction ban.Kauri0.o (talk) 02:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) There wouldn't be a reason for this even if Ace weren't an op. Since he is one, I think this should simply be struck off. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She left anyway, so.. Kevlarstar  Ping!  15:39, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to vote that way but it's a poor reason. She always returns. Bongolian (talk) 18:06, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She got permablocked and sysoprevoked. Kevlarstar  Ping!  19:57, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She was blocked on her own request, not banned. She’ll make a new account at some point. Christopher (talk) 20:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * But if she'll make a new account, the IBans aren't valid anymore. Kevlarstar  Ping!  07:07, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Seems only fair to me that sanctions should apply to the person, not the account. If Oxy is known to have returned under a new username then the IBans should just carry over. --RWRW (talk) 07:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She can't be banned "because" there was no process here to ban here. I'm a bit dubious about the other changes to her status without the appropriate process here too.  What people say or do elsewhere should be irrelevant to what happens here.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 09:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * She requested to be renamed and banned. User request is fine by me, it's not that big of a deal. If she makes a new account and it is identified (and boy do her current standing interaction bans make it easy to identify her should she come back), then the IBAN will simply be moved over. 09:37, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, but you can't request to be banned. And, as far as I am concerned, anything that doesn't happen in the open on the wiki shouldn't count.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 11:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Except it seems that if she creates a new user name, we have no way of knowing who is Oxy until we all figure it out, yet she knows who IBF, Ace and I are. You can't exactly be upset if we interact with a "new" user, but should still be upset if she interacts with us in a nasty manner.  14:04, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * But it's irrelevant. There is absolutely nothing stopping her coming back as "Oxy".  Which she probably will do pretty quickly if past form is anything to go by.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 14:10, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Goat

 * Ace McWicked is a moderator. He cannot moderate effectively if placed under interaction bans-Hastur! (talk)  20:05, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There are five other mods you know. Are you new around here?-Flandres (talk) 20:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If he cannot perform the work of a moderator because of consequences from his behavior of being a moderator, this calls serious question in his ability to moderate in the first place. 00:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Moderators should not be above the rules. Plutocow (talk) 03:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If this should pass, Ace still has the right to block Oxy for being incivil. DocYankemPrevent Truth Decay!21:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I favour the soft-interaction ban. Ace and Oxyaena should stay as far away from each other as possible unless a case involving Oxyaena comes to the attention of moderators again. And unless that happens, they should also be banned from talking about each other. As has been pointed out earlier, a discussion on the ATM page recently got completely derailed when Ace brought up and insulted Oxyaena for no reason at all. Spud (talk) 04:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (was a vote in support) Christopher (talk) 21:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (was a vote against) Christopher (talk) 21:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) No. 71.208.x.x (talk) 12:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Against

 * 1) Shabi  DOO  19:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 19:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Kevlarstar  Ping!  19:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) GeeJayK (talk) 19:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) -Flandres (talk) 19:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) This was never brought up before, it’s obviously a bad idea. Christopher (talk) 19:50, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It was brought up several times in the conversation. In fact, someone said that if he could not interact with Oxyaena, his moderator rights should be revoked since it would be his job to interact with every user. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You said sysop rights in your vote, and that’s what “demop” usually means. That was never brought up. There’s now a separate vote for removing mod rights. Christopher (talk) 19:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) -Hastur! (talk) 20:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Ace has not abused his sysop rights. He has acted inappropriately as a moderator, not as a sysop. 20:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Bongolian (talk) 20:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Absurd. I don't think anyone even mentioned this as an option. 20:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) No. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) No Commie Lib (talk) 03:23, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Nutty Roux (talk) 12:31, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) No. 13:11, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 11) Excessive -- Goatspeed. 01:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 12) Unneeded. 14:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 13) Once again, not even vaguely within the realm of reason, and shamefully ungrateful. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:36, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Goat
I personally said I thought it should require a 2/3 majority, but that was never actually agreed upon, I don’t remember anyone else supporting it. We should just stick to the rules on this one and make it a simple majority. Christopher (talk) 19:43, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't like that precedent. We didn't put Oxy in sysoprevoke because the accusations weren't related to her behavior as a sysop (I voted for Aye on that time, yes, but that's because I was unfairly banned by Oxy). Same here, Ace didn't do anything wrong as a mod. GeeJayK (talk) 19:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Wait, demop as in remove sysop rights? No one ever proposed this before now, the discussion was about mod rights. This whole thing is a mess. Christopher (talk) 19:46, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, no, but I don't see the difference here. Oxy didn't lose her sysop powers because she didn't do anything wrong with them (actually, she did). Same with Ace. GeeJayK (talk) 19:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Chris, it is customary by now to have all such options open when voting starts. If they are stupid/irrelevant, they will just not pass.-Flandres (talk) 19:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) Has abused his sysop rights before. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Aye

 * 1) He has ran afoul of his single duty as a moderator, which is to not be the very problem that he is supposed to be moderating against. His actions on Oxy's talkpage are no different from what we see of a driveby troll and had it been anyone but Ace (or another long-term editor), they'd have been reverted and short term blocked. This makes Ace unfit to be a moderator in my eyes.  21:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ace is a long-term editor, imagining what would have happened if he wasn’t is pointless. Although I voted for an interaction ban and agree he causes a lot of trouble with Oxy, I think the incident that actually triggered this coop is overblown. Christopher (talk) 21:10, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I consider it relevant because to me the exemption that it has granted him feels a lot like a case of special pleading/asking for more leeway because he is a long-term editor and moderator. 21:26, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don’t think that’s the case, if anything his comments are being scrutinised more because of his history with Oxy. The only reason he’d be treated differently is because some new account wouldn’t have any reason to bother Oxy, but that doesn’t mean anything. Christopher (talk) 21:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Gosh this is exciting stuff. AceSimple Maze 21:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Unpopular opinion: Ace is not a good moderator. Ace cannot perform as a moderator as he is incapable of reassessing his judgement especially with his behavior of constantly needling users he personally dislikes. Anyone who has used "he/she/it" in reference to a trans person has went over the no-fly zone of conduct in the wiki, and I do not wish for anyone who attempts this, especially without apology or acknowledgement of harm, to be moderator or be potentially be representative of the inclusive community of this wiki. Anyone who is subject to a lengthy and messy coop like this that takes away much needed energy from other matters, in part because he constantly talks down and dismisses others concerns, opens also a huge lack of confidence in my opinion for him to remain mod. This is partly why I do not want to wait until the next elections because there is a window of several months Ace can try to start more drama. I realize, however, this is not a popular position to take, and I'm going to make it clear I will anti-endorse the next election. 00:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh I see - it’s my fault this is a messy coop? You fuckers started it - I am just defending myself my dear fellow (oh no! The forbidden word!) AceSimple Maze 01:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You could have avoided this entire mess in the first place if you realized you were aware of your clear role in the drama with Oxy, took note of your own mental state, and decided to stay out of posting unwelcome messages on her talk page; and you had several opportunities right in this very coop to treat others including Techpriest (another moderator) with respect, defuse accusations against you, and accept responsibility for the words you've said. 02:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So, even merely commenting on Oxy’s page, nothing even remotely abusive, is enough cause to haul me here? Interesting series of logical steps. Ace made comment, Oxy barely even complained while I made it clear I was being silly... and here we are. Fuck you LGM. You remember you bitching me out several times across Discord. You remember how I responded both there and here. Think on that. AceSimple Maze 02:44, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Very weakly and with regret. JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 01:26, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) if a mod does controversial shit that spills into chicken coop mode every other month this tells me that this user was never fit for the job to begin with. 02:45, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Fully support. — Oxyaena Harass  12:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't support either you or Ace being sanctioned or leaving the wiki. Do you think there is any way you could talk it out between yourselves? UninspiringNickname (talk) 16:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

No

 * 1) In a direct democracy like rationalwiki, the authority of any functionary relies on a sort of informal respect among the community. Otherwise, people just will not respect their edicts, turn to other mods, and since a mod is still accountable to the community, if they do something beyond the pale with their remaining power the mob can easily overrule them. In a sense, we have demodded Ace already.-Flandres (talk) 19:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Absurd that we're even considering this-Hastur! (talk) 20:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Shabi  DOO  20:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) For the reasons I've stated above. GeeJayK (talk) 20:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) wtf Kevlarstar  Ping!  20:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) If you don’t want Ace to be mod, don’t vote for him in the next elections. He hasn’t abused mod powers, there’s no reason to remove his rights. I’ll admit I don’t want Rockford the Roe to be mod and that plays a (small, I’d have voted no regardless) part in my decision, they don’t know the basic rules of the site (tried to set up a vote to sanction Ace within a few hours of the coop starting). Christopher (talk) 20:08, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Hasn't abused his mod powers. Just don't vote for him next time if you think he's "unprofessional".  20:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Vote whatever you will, but don't say nonsense. He did abuse his mod powers once. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 20:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the incident from several years back? You wouldn’t have known about if Ace hadn’t mentioned it, and it was presumably dealt with at the time. Christopher (talk) 20:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Bongolian (talk) 20:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Hardly urgent enough to call for removal. If you don't like what you saw here, anti-endorse and vote against him in the mod elections. 20:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) --RWRW (talk) 21:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Don't be silly! Scream!! (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Very bad precedent that an elected mod can be removed by a coop. Vote him out if you don't like him in next elections. Commie Lib (talk) 03:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I also believe letting a mod get away with blatant offensive remarks with "he/she/it" on top of constant needling despite being told to stop is also very bad precedent. 03:36, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Kinda disagree on the precedent thing. I think it really is a good idea to have a mechanism to remove a mod if necessary. 04:28, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This is related to his mod powers how? Unless he's using his powers to do real damage to the mainspace pages of the wiki just don't vote form in the next election. Commie Lib (talk) 03:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Evaluation of debatably offensive remarks between anonymous internet persona in online media reminds me somewhat of a Punch-and-Judy show. Let's pass around the slapstick, shall we?UncleKrampus (talk) 17:32, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Nutty Roux (talk) 12:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Way no. Vote him out in next elections if you're so inclined. 13:12, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Fuck no. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) While I absolutely abhor Ace's behavior he didn't abuse his mod rights, so why impeach him? I say we instead vote him out in November. -- Goatspeed. 00:57, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Unneeded. 14:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) In the face of so much dramatic insanity and lack of gratitude, it's only fair he gets to be my number one choice in the next elections. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:42, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Respect is earned, not warranted. He doesn't deserve any respect when he acts like a toddler. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, that explains why whenever I go to France I don't get to hear much from the locals aside from "m*rde", "c*n", " putain" and "vous ete en France, p*tain de m*rde, parlais français!". :D Well, just kidding (but it actually does happen, especially in Marseilles. I wonder why.) You're certainly welcome to disagree with me. I've been lurking for the past decade (probably more than that), though my account is more recent. Ace did nuke the wiki at one point (reversably so), which, possibly because it was a long time ago, and because it fits well with his character, I kind of find funny :-) I never found him to be otherwise unfair. He does have a personality, but, well, so do we all, I hope. Regarding the current issue, and as much as I don't feel like commenting on Oxyaena when she's not around, I digged up a bit and...


 * (Cis?) female neurosurgeon by age 12. (Cis?) male editor sometime later. Indigenous and African descent. Then a trans woman. On the autism spectrum. Publicly alleged that someone who was her boyfriend had commited suicide, when he was completely ok (not good). Apparently thinks anyone who is not very close to anarcho-communist (or anarcho-egoism?) is a right-winger (I do happen to support anarcho-communism, but have zero interest in discussing politics here). Also claims to be homeless and disabled, and to be an ex-muslim. Sorry, no sell here. It's an example of pretty much the only thing that can get my cold blood a bit warmer than usual. Btw, you seem to have also misgendered me in the diffs, my userpage says I'm a girl (and what our userpages say might well differ from reality) :D Should I coop you? Nope, not even slightly annoyed, nor should I be. Ace? He's done a lot for the wiki. Been here far longer than any of us. Keeps us honest by opposing arbitrary blocks and bans, keeps the spirit of RationalWiki alive (the same spirit that attracted so many folks who withdrew when it began to flicker... and now we are so few). Yep, he's earned my respect. Definitely voting for him. And it would be a pity if Oxyaena were to leave for good, though I think she might want to come clean on some issues first, and take the opportunity to learn and grow. Will be happy to hear from you (or Oxyaena) if you'd like to debate further, though, and especially so if I've made any factual errors. UninspiringNickname (talk) 05:11, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Goat
So demop means sysoprevoke and demod mod revoke.. Kevlarstar  Ping!  20:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes.-Flandres (talk) 20:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Out of lack of support for this sanction, I'll withdraw from voting for now. I will however strongly anti-endorse Ace in any upcoming moderator elections for his behavior that led to and was applied in this coop. (For those of you keeping track at home, that is me going for the "please don't re-elect Ace" option). 20:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll be honest with you, Sirius. You're not voting because you think you're going to lose? What if you do? GeeJayK (talk) 20:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You should stick to your convictions. Even if it won’t pass, it’s obviously what you believe. Christopher (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Losing a landslide vote here is no big deal. I've done it before. 20:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Fine then, voted with my convictions. 21:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't know if there's a precedent for this (and given the strong support for keeping Ace on as a mod, I doubt there will be much support for this), but has there ever been a recall effort for a mod? I envision the process function as thus: a majority votes to call for a new mod election, either for the entire mod team or for a specific seat. If the effort is directed towards one user, that user cannot run in the following mod election. The election must occur within two months, and the user with a plurality of votes takes the empty seat. I'm also considering a general mod election, sort of like a vote of no confidence. I'm not saying such measures are needed now, but I believe their availability will make our democracy more robust. IveBeenFrank (talk) 22:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if I would support plurality voting, that means if a majority opposes a mod they could still be elected. I think either ranked-choice voting or a jungle primary and instant runoff vote would be more democratic. Plutocow (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Considering how long mod elections can take (seriously, they're scheduled months in advance), and how much this wiki changes even in a single mod, it's important that mod seats can be quickly filled. Since there will inevitably a variety of candidates voted for, and runoffs will occur at least a month in advance, a non-plurality voting system would take too long to elect a new mod. It's not my favorite solution, but plurality voting is the best of the worst in this situation. I would consider instant-runoff voting, since that doesn't require a new election. IveBeenFrank (talk) 23:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As set out, it pretty much seems to be "If a majority of users vote this dude should be demoded, they are demoded." Then one of alternates (we do elect them for a reason), who in this case are either Summma or Rockford, would take over. There is nothing like a "special election."-Flandres (talk) 23:35, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think we should switch to an FPTP Electoral College system for all mod elections! 23:47, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I will point out that two alternates were selected in the last mod election. There would be no need to have another election if a mod were forced to resign any more than there would need to be one if a mod chose to resign. Spud (talk) 04:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Golly!
I’m breathless with excitement and anticipation! AceSimple Maze 21:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Two Way interaction ban with
(requires simple majority)

Aye

 * 1) Shabi  DOO  19:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) Well, if we go back and look, HBC has far worse interactions with Oxy than Cory or Frank, and they got I-banned...-Flandres (talk) 19:41, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) Generally speaking a good idea, although no evidence for this was presented in the current coop, I want to note that HBC is usually someone I end up telling off for being an uncivil dickhead to Oxy. 20:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) Probably for the best. 20:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Definitely for the best. Spud (talk) 04:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) — Oxyaena  <font color="Red">Harass  12:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) -- Goatspeed. 01:02, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Against

 * 1) -At this point it would make more sense just to have an interaction ban between Oxyaena and the rest of the wiki...-Hastur! (talk) 20:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Slippery Slope Plutocow (talk) 22:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) Most people care too little about HBC to vote at all, I don’t like the idea of a 3:1 sanction passing. Christopher (talk) 20:41, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 2) I agree with Chris and Hastur. GeeJayK (talk) 20:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 3) HBC usually has the right of most altercations. Also what Hastur said. Scream!! (talk) 21:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) I think this is a silly proposition. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 00:18, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 5) Agree with most above. Commie Lib (talk) 03:25, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 6) Kevlarstar   Ping!  07:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 7) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:02, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 8) Nutty Roux (talk) 12:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 9) HBC is so infrequent an editor that I think her sporadic bitchiness can be taken with a grain of salt. 13:13, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 10) OTT. Kauri0.o (talk) 20:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 11) Why? 15:02, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 12) I don't see any reason to, and we should be mature enough to operate without (vague and unenforceable) Ibans. UninspiringNickname (talk) 15:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I moved your vote in error. Bongolian (talk) 20:04, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, no problem. I do have more than 75 edits, but not a lot more. But now you'll have to be understanding when I blow up the wiki do something silly because of my lack of markup-fu ;-) UninspiringNickname (talk) 04:23, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1)  Leucippus Talk 18:07, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Goat
I would include a provision that would ban HBC from insinuating other users are Oxyaena as well. Plutocow (talk) 19:56, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Absolutely ridiculous - that you're suggesting a ban for this. Are you really that sensitive! Leucippus Talk 22:16, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That would be a different vote, Oxy has a ban on being uncivil which works similarly. You also can’t vote, your account isn’t old enough. Christopher (talk) 20:00, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Don't interaction bans preclude the target from mentioning the other ibanned user in a negative way already? 20:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It does, I misread what Plutocow was saying. Christopher (talk) 20:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

At least prior to a recent development (sorry about making that worse), the consensus seemed to be that it wasn’t worth having cooping HBC at all. Christopher (talk) 20:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We should still adress this problem while we are at it...-Flandres (talk) 20:13, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

 * 1) A definite yes here. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I think
This should have remained in ATIM. Kevlarstar  Ping!  10:20, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. A chicken coop is launched whenever a sysop or a moderator is either #1 being abusive or #2 abusing his privileges. You are only suggesting this because people are split on this issue. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 10:40, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Split? Look at the votes, it's very one-sided. Kevlarstar  Ping!  10:56, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not talking about the votes, some people who should have voted didn't vote yet. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The interaction ban is 9:9, that’s not one sided. Christopher (talk) 11:23, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant the blocks. Kevlarstar  Ping!  11:27, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Again, I was talking about the whole ordeal, people are split on this issue and the blocks are only a part of this chicken coop. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:34, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Hold on
I don't know what happened, but it seems that Oxyaena left for good this time. I don't know where the user request came from (Probably Discord), but now that she is gone, should the voting sections regarding the interaction bans be null? MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah it was on Discord. The short of it is that someone around Oxy seems to recognize the fact that spending time on the wiki is unhealthy for her, which she agrees with and as a result she asked me to basically apply a harsher version of a LANCB. I would recommend letting the sanction votes run till conclusion for the IBAN because this is a fairly soft LANCB (I could undo it at any point, although I'm personally not really inclined to). 22:34, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * [EC]Oxy may come back with a different account at some point in the future, I agree with Sirius that it’s worth letting the vote run just in case. I imagine we won’t see much change in terms of votes, as hardly anyone will care enough about an interaction ban with a retired user, anyone who did has already voted, and all of the other sanctions are clearly not passing. The coop will close after the minimum 7 days and will amount to absolutely nothing, a colossal waste of everyone’s time. Christopher (talk) 22:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It's unfortunate that things work out this way sometimes... dear god coop cases are so fucking tiring. I hope it will be a while until the next one. 22:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This shouldn't have been one in the first. It's the most pathetic coop case I have ever seen in my 12 years at RW. AceSimple Maze 22:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Regardless of what Oxy did or said, this vote should still play out. Do not underestimate the ability of serial LANCBers to resurrect. Shabi  DOO  23:06, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As for the pathetic nature of this coop Ace...I would say judging by the sad number of against votes for even a measly interaction ban, half the community is disinterested in even slightly diminishing the most toxic behaviour on this website and are unfazed by repeated bullying and vile comments. So yeah...status quo. Fierce resistance to even the tiniest hint of progress. It's a beautiful metaphor for the world where even a website with such a huge progressive aspect doesn't give a shit about actually progressing. Congratulations Ace...you won. Shabi  DOO  23:06, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I applaud Oxyaena's ostensible recognition that she needs to turn over a new leaf.
 * Here's hoping her new sock stays away from Ace. DocYankemPrevent Truth Decay!23:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I won? I don't readily understand what I was supposed to be winning? AceSimple Maze 23:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This was a stupid coop case. No clear goal, no clear infraction, and with HBC and Oxy tossed in and yelled at, no clear target either. 23:50, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * A transperson who had moments of being annoying and lashing out is reviled and insulted and hated and people applaud as she leaves the website. An assholy man-boy who is an admin of all things insults her, hounds her and misgenders her with "cunt" thrown in for good measure and "there's no clear infraction". And this on a site with a so called liberal bent. What the holy fucking shit-sticks? Shabi  DOO  00:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So, what exactly have I won? AceSimple Maze 00:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * This site does have a liberal bent, this coop just shows most aren't willing to punish an innocent mod. The loss of Oxy is tragic though, I still don't understand why these two have such animosity. Commie Lib (talk) 05:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Because I came back on board while Oxy was banning people left, right and centre and claiming to be a "de-facto mod" when she had not been granted that sort of title. Then she fucking bitched and moaned about it. Called me a number of things over on the Discord server and basically gave me a ton of shit for trying to reign her in. Now I see through her lies and wish she'd stop bullshitting the community. In particular when she claimed someone she knew had committed suicide but, whoops, they hadn't. Oxy lies and attention seeks while I am straight up and down bastard. Not a good mix. AceSimple Maze 07:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe, but still, two wrongs don't make a right. -- Goatspeed. 16:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The short of it is that Oxy lost the previous mod election (not the one we had a few months ago, the one from a year ago) by a hair. That election from my understanding was fairly messy and Oxy pretty much informally started acting like she was a moderator. Didn't claim to be that, but she was handing out blocks left and right and going on a crusade against a serial troll that included many casualties of innocent accounts and friends of Nutty. She lost tech status and was sysoprevoked over basically a mixture of this and attempting to go on a very obvious personal crusade against a certain bad bird. She later got sysop back on a probationary basis and knocked off the blocking sprees. That for a while settled things. Then Oxy got in an incident where they thought a friend committed suicide, was mistaken and that kindled a belief in Ace that she was lying (not helped by being fueled by information from the bird to stir up even more shit). Personally I have a more sympathetic mindset towards Oxy than Ace, but that was more or less the situation that led up to this coop. This is also why I have problems seeing Ace as fully innocent in his comments that led to the Coop; there's a straight up history of hostile behavior between the two and existing bad blood. 17:01, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oxy pretty much informally started acting like she was a moderator. Didn't claim to be that - no she did actually state it a number of times on Discord. And I don't need your sympathy. AceSimple Maze 22:12, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh good Goat, Oxy was almost a mod for realsies?! I'd sooner hire a fundamentalist to give my future kids tutoring for their science classes, as too often her arguments consist of "I personally believe [insert far-left fringe idea/link to some pseudo-intellectual video from a toxic "Breadtube" channel here] very strongly" followed by an obscenity-filled screed against those who do not believe said idea (it also doesn't help that her main goal on here seemed to be to turn our site into a personal moonbat playground), and she too often puts tangential trollposts on the talkpages of users she has a grudge against. Mods shouldn't be in the business of doing such- nor should they be in the business of fighting incivility with incivility as Ace did. -- Goatspeed.  20:55, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I had a look at Oxy's user-page to count the number of times she had put up the LANCB tag but got bored after counting ten. Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 10:24, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Are there rules on whether someone with an IBan can run? Asking for a friend.  I was an Alt mod back in the day.  14:57, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No.-Flandres (talk) 14:58, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Nothing codified in either election rules or the CS. 21:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Now that's cute.GeeJayK (talk) 19:15, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I’ll bet a $50 donation to the RationalMedia Foundation that she won’t stay away from R-W for a whole year short of being blocked. 71.208.x.x (talk) 13:49, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) If that's Oxy, is she referring to me?
 * 2) If she's editing the way she says she is, is she removing my source as well?
 * Because both of those may be a violation of the IBan or whatever. I don't really care too much about the article, but I just want to be sure.  19:22, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Now that it has been a week...
...Can we just close the votes and archive this disaster? Leaving it open is like leaving a gangrenous wound untended.-Flandres (talk) 19:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I support this. I'm already regretting early post. GeeJayK (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As much as I wish we could all just forget about this mess, it’s hard to justify closing the coop when it’s so active due to Oxy’s recent return. Hopefully things will die down again soon. Christopher (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The poll must be open for at least one week, so on 19 march, 19:36 (UTC) Kevs  Ping!  19:48, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Minimum Time is now over. Should we end it,, , ? Kevs  Ping!  19:28, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I support administrative measures against the other offender, but it won't pass because it has 13 votes against and 7 votes for, I want to keep it open in the off-chance that the votes changes. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:49, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That’s a bad reason to want to keep a coop open. Everyone who cares has voted, it won’t change. Christopher (talk) 19:51, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Oh, I miscounted days. Sorry about that! I would still argue for closing it immediately on that day though. Oxy returning from yet another short LANCB has nothing to do with the subject of this case.-Flandres (talk) 19:51, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * STOP THE COUNT! 20:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * How about a courtesy flush?UncleKrampus (talk) 20:54, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see the votes changing based on Oxy's LANCB by that much. The vote for an IBAN (the only thing that would affect Oxy) is pretty overwhelmingly in favor. 21:27, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * - you can't just keep it open because you don't like the result. That isn't how this works, pal. Ace//about blank 21:28, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The Trump approach to voting: Just keep it going until you get a result you like. 21:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You just gotta learn that votes aren't always going to go your way and one week or two is usually enough to gauge deadline. I've voted and proposed stuff that failed all the time. 21:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * COUNT EVERY LEGAL VOTE! 21:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
 * STORM THE MOD PAGE! Ace//about blank 11:38, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We should hold the vote again in 2024.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 11:57, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

End it. Bongolian (talk) 19:33, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I have closed all votes. Outcomes as follows:
 * No ban sanctions pass against Ace.
 * Ace is not demopped (0-19) and not demodded (5-20).
 * Helena Bonham Carter's interaction ban proposal does not pass for now. (7-14).
 * Ace and Oxyaena are indefinetly interaction banned. (17-12).
 * I will notify the relevant parties on their talkpages for the relevant sanction. Any other moderator than me can choose to archive this coop (or I'll do it myself tomorrow). 20:41, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Tomorrow? I really don’t see the point in keeping this open at all now that the votes are closed. We’ve all been waiting for the 7 day timer to run out, no need to drag it out even further. Christopher (talk) 20:44, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I mostly want people to give it a read before closing it (besides tomorrow is like, 10 hours for me and it's only if nobody else does it). Again, anyone else can do it, I just want it known that I'm not immediately rugsweeping it so that ppl who want to see the outcome have to go to the archives straight away. 20:48, 19 March 2021 (UTC)