RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Category:Batshit crazy

RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Category:Batshit crazy | Result: Deleted

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Not necessarily deletion, but this category has possible issues that could be resolved by a delete, a rename, or a subdivision. On the talk page it's been mentioned that the category is so overly broad as to obscure its meaning. It is also contained within the parent category "people" and stipulates that it only contains people, but actually contains many non-human entities like organisations. I'm bringing this up to call for a vote on whether to:
 * delete the category altogether,
 * rename to something like "batshit crazy people" and trim non-human entries,
 * broaden the definition to remove the requirement for only "people" (with the possibility of creating subcategories for "batshit crazy people", "batshit crazy organisations" etc.), or
 * leave it alone.

Delete
OK. I've deleted it. , please go ahead and use your technical magic to remove it from all the pages. Spud (talk) 13:10, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) I fear that in practice, this is a dumb and bad category - David Gerard (talk) 22:34, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * That's my gut feeling too, but if you support a deletion of this, you should probably address Category:Insufferable assholes and Category:Internet kooks as well. They're not useful and I do suppose that if someone really deserves to be called an asshole, you should let the article do that job, not a category. 22:38, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) Not needed. Categories should categorise things (no shit) based on some unifying idea so that all included pages can be found together. I can't foresee anyone wanting a collection of "batshit crazy" anything; it's just not useful. As LGM says, insufferable arseholes should go too. At least internet kooks are unified by presence on the internet. —Kazitor, pending 23:05, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 2) Honestly, just let it go. It's 2008cruft, created when we had much lower standards than we do now.  As it is, the category is both (a) a cheap shot that's totally unnecessary given all the other content an article is supposed to contain, and (b) also being poorly defined, rendering it unhelpful for actual categorization/navigation purposes.  It'll be no loss to the wiki if it's deleted. End-of-page cheap shots aren't simply excusable for something that's supposed to have a clear-cut function like a category.  Cheap shots belong in the body of the article itself, not gunking up the categories.   05:18, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) Changing my vote - I find the above comments persuasive and am down with delete, all things considered. --Yisfidri (talk) 12:08, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 4) Per all, particularly Radioactive Misanthrope. But I can't deny I will be missing the cheapshots because it feels so cathartic for people like anti-vaxxers and creationists, even if it's petty as a category. If this proposal passes through, we should probably a bigger proposal encompassing loaded ones like Category:Enablers (debatable), Category:Shysters (debatable, but overlaps with Category:Scams?), Category:Government incompetence, Category:Smooth-talking bastards (overlaps with Shysters?), Category:Bullshit, Category:Crimes against humanity (debatable), Category:Insufferable assholes, and others. The talk for insufferable assholes did a cheap shot at gulls, how dare them. White-headed gulls, among the most underrated birds. 04:19, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * All right. This is obviously going to be deleted. When that happens, can it please be arranged for it to be removed from all the hundreds of pages that it's on with one click? Spud (talk) 12:30, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Even as a tech, I can't seem to find a special page nor a gadget that enables it. RationalWiki doesn't seem to have a plugin that does this installed here, unless I'm missing it. The extension certainly exists, though. BTW we did remove Category:Unremitting horror. 20:38, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I can probably use bot powers. —Kazitor, pending 22:57, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a bot can help here. You want to...? 23:01, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Once deletion is definitively confirmed. Now, can I be bothered setting up another account to run it, or just stick with this one...? —Kazitor, pending 23:22, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Whatever works best for ya? I guess? 23:25, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) Unnecessary. 02:54, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Rename

 * 1) Right now I'd tentatively go for renaming to "batshit crazy people" and trimming away non-human entries, leaving category description intact, as the mental state description "batshit crazy" as applied to non-human or collective entities seems a bit more complicated. --Yisfidri (talk) 03:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC) Changing my vote. --Yisfidri (talk) 12:08, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 2) After much analysis, I believe that we should rename that article (that would allow us to add groups, for example, and to avoid confusion).  Also changing my vote.Georgie Enkoom (talk) 17:34, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) How about renaming it to "major offenders" and changing it so it has some actual standards. Benn (talk) 21:37, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a bit late, but the same problems are there. MOST people documented here are offenders in some sort, thus defeating the point of the category, and what makes someone "major" or not would also be a source of contention. I think it would create more problems than it solves. 21:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Broaden definition

 * 1) That would require the least amount of work from us. Let the category include organizations and whatever else is in the category already. Bring the category's official designation in line with the way it's been (mis)used for years. Spud (talk) 06:41, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Why not call Flat Earth batshit crazy, for instance? Wilder Bicycle 20:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Deleting won't require a lot of work either. There is a way to remove the string in one click. This for instance, or this. I'm not sure if RationalWiki itself has that function, but I've used something similar in other MediaWiki-powered wikis. Not saying we should necessarily delete it, but deleting all pages with that string shouldn't be tedious.  21:41, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) I believe we should broaden the definition, as several groups and ideas are clearly insane. However, we should be more careful with how we use this category in the future, so as not to diminish it's meaning. 22:44, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * But here's my question: isn't the bulk of this wiki supposed to document insanity to begin with? This makes the category pretty redundant with our wiki's mission, for the most part. 05:05, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, it's "its" you itsy-it. 21:37, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You raise valid points, though I still find certain forms of idiocy and insanity more nonsensical than others. 21:48, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
 * That's subjective, right? But either way, I don't think a category is a good metric to measure how insane an article is, right? So, we're getting back to my original point: the body content of an article is supposed to already do the job of showcasing, more precisely, the varying degrees of idiocy. 04:09, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) I agree. For example, we should put people in that category if they have more than a specific number of crazy/stupid opinions, or if they are more than extremists (for example, if XXX is a racist and that's all, we don't have to put him in such category. However, if XXX is racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and all, we can put him. Same goes if his racist opinions goes to the extreme, like "Kill 'em all!"). Georgie Enkoom (talk) 19:10, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Leave it alone

 * 1) Leave Batshit ALONE! 09:37, 24 April 2018 (UTC)— that was by Readymade, by the way

Goat

 * Deleting it would require community consensus. But can't this category be a subcategory of both people and organizations? 05:10, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * previous related arguments: Forum:Rethinking "Snarky point of view" and RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Category:Bullshit. Wilder Bicycle 11:23, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Also RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive284 —Kazitor, pending 23:07, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I like the broaden definition option but I feel like we need more specifics on setting points, and that I find to be quite difficult. One person's "insane" is different from anothers. 02:51, 26 April 2018 (UTC)