Talk:Main Page/Archive20

Feedback request
A call is out for general feedback on a new element of the site at RationalWiki:Proposed Article of the weak. 14:37, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

Mandela not Terrorist Shock
What do you know. Looks like the us has decided that Nelson Mandela is not a terrorist. Or did I come late to this?--Bobbing up 10:25, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, a bit late Bob. But it's good to know. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]Genghis    15:44, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Other slams on Conservapedia
The text below copied from here

For those who haven't met me from the Lenski Affair, my name is Jim and I run a blog chronicling religious stupidity in all of it's forms, The Rational Reply. So recently I've gotten around to writing directly about Conservapedia (Conservapedia on starlight, more to follow).

The question is does Rational Wiki want to do anything with these obvious cross-overs? If so, what? Jim Rational 15:58, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * One thing you could do is cross-post your text in the "essay:" namespace, cat it to here, and put a link to the copy on your blog so people can go read the comments? And also link from there to here, of course ;)  As far as your example (without reading it) we have an article on the starlight problem you could add text to.  We might get cranky if you just run around adding external links, though...  ħ uman  16:38, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I think this is not the first question of this kind we have had from a rational anti-conservapedia blogger. If you search RationalWiki Lenski on the web you get a lot of hits. Is there some other greater anti-conservapedia movement out there that we could help solidify? Would we want to?--Bobbing up 16:47, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Any idea where that conversation was held? Was any kind of a consensus reached? Is there any desire to cross help these clearly complimentary efforts?
 * I'd be a bit surprised if there wasn't a desire to help each other. Regardless of what format we choose to put our efforts into, where our purposes mesh we should be doing so if only for the greater good of laughing at Conservapedia! Jim Rational 17:39, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't remember the conversation, but this seems important, and Category talk:Conservapedia doesn't seem like a good place. Someone have a better place for this? 17:48, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The two candidates that I thought of for asking the question were here because it's directly straight at Conservapedia and the main page-talk page if this is a more general "what to do with other sites whose purposes mesh with RW at times?" discussion. Jim Rational 23:56, 7 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I believe that User:The Lay Scientist was making a similar point. I know that we've got the RationalWiki:Blogroll but we might want to expand on that.--Bobbing up 04:55, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

My Idea ((c)Me): Why not implement a second version of the WIGO ranking page, but have it open for people to submit rational blog posts? Either about just Conservapedia, or maybe about general rational stuff? Given the fact that I've gained a good few hundred page views for everything I've submitted here, there's obviously a strong demand for some sort of links page like this...

And just to extend it and promote it even further, how about one of the technical wizards here integrates it into an RSS feed that people can put on their own sites? It's a bit of work, but it's something that could really help to boost RationalWiki's profile and audience, because at the moment you guys are fairly insular in terms of tapping into the wider blogging community.

The Lay Scientist 07:43, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Edit - I notice that RationalWiki already has the capability to generate RSS feeds of page histories, which suggests it wouldn't be too much work to adapt that module to show a list of recent links added to a list in a nicer format. You could use the same thing to provide an RSS feed for the WIGO page. Once you have a feed it would be very easy to create a box with the latest 5 items and a RationalWiki logo with a link back to the page that bloggers like me could add to our sites, bringing you much linkage. The Lay Scientist 08:08, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Sounds good to me.--Bobbing up 10:03, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That sounds like blog viewers would be able to easily link to RationalWiki, but RationalWiki viewers would still have to look at the Blogroll to find to users' blogs. Am I interpreting the way you want to do this correctly? If so, that sounds fine and I agree that implementation would be relatively simple. OneForLogic 11:09, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Erm, I think so. My idea is to make a new page along the lines of "What's Going on in the Blogosphere". When bloggers write relevant articles, they add it to the top of the page, like people do on WIGO. Then the feed gives the last few entries, so I can post them on my site, along with a link to the full page or entries and archives on RationalWiki. The Lay Scientist 12:33, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I think Mr. Scientist's idea is a good one. It could be implemented immediately, with the RSS feed and voting worked out later, too.  Perhaps it should go at RationalWiki:What is going on in the blogosphere? (copying most of what WIGO CP says and then rewriting it ought to work), and be linked from blogroll, and also the front page down by the WIGO CP link? I started a boilerplate version of the article.  ħ uman  16:26, 8 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Agreed. Forget about my earlier description, making a new RSS feed out of a new Blogosphere page sounds like a good idea. If we also make an RSS feed out of the WIGO page to post on our blogs, everyone shares users and gets more traffic. Let's do it. OneForLogic 17:06, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Jewish cabal at Conservapedia
see Conservapedia_Talk:What_is_going_on_at_CP%3F --75.38.55.80 15:49, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

I think I just felt my brain explode
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH! (Warning: Audio automatically starts and repeats the entire text.)  05:33, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
 * And still you gave us the link: now my brain is exploding too. Should we suggest Andy to hire this Hugh Ross to CP? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 06:06, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

I was on the radio!
Check it here! No talking about Schlafly though, just politics and stuff.... -
 * You should be bragging—you've hit the big time! (Compared to us, at least : ))   22:05, 9 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Awesome! The Lay Scientist 20:05, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Completely Unrelated
I was just wondering if anyone else has an opinion about this.... I was thinking about the last few Republican presidents. In order, you had a former Actor, an Oil Millionaire (before age 40) from Greenwich CT, and his son, an oil Billionaire and part owner of a baseball team.... HOW in the blue hell do the Republican keeps dismissing the Democrats as elitist? I mean really? The only "blue collar" Republican I can remember running (granted, I am young) is Bob Dole... and he lost. What does everyone else think? SirChuckB  01:28, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * GWB isn't a billionaire by the way. Nixon was pretty soily.  Not even ivy league... The "elitist" thing is just rhetoric, the faithful eat it up, hard to tell whether it sways voters... Kerry certainly wasn't good at dispelling the label, while GWB laiks him sum brush-cleering.  ħ uman  02:22, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Are you sure? I could've sworn that he was.... but ok, millionaire... Either way, it still fits.  The sad part is that the elitist thing really does sway voters... look at Kerry and the infamous Wind Surfing ads... SirChuckB  02:28, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * When the GOP says "Elitist", I think they mean "Not part of OUR Elite". Which does not appear to hbe a meritocracy. --Gulik 05:24, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Argh!
Our precious forumz! They are downz! Halp! -- 06:08, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Still down I see. :-( --Bobbing up 07:14, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That was me. :( --λινυσ (☮) 09:55, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Hmm…
…did the wiki go down for anyone else just now? --λινυσ (☮) 09:23, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

My e-mail to CNN
Dear CNN,

I was looking at your website today in your "Election Center" section, and I noticed that your presidential poll states that "it does not have a sampling error." As an educator and math minor in college, I question this assertion. There is no way to gather polling data without a sampling error. Furthermore, most polls on the national level top out at 3-4% because of the size of the sample and the type of the data.

I would ask that you correct this on your website as soon as possible. Presidential elections are a great learning experience on statistics for us all. Sterilesnore! 15:10, 10 July 2008 (EDT) (PS-Maybe I should demand they release their data! ;D  )
 * You should probably retract this. If you read the rest of that little blurb, you would have noticed it was a "poll of polls," which is mathematically absent sampling error (since they have complete information).  "CNN's national general election "poll of polls" consists of four surveys: CNN/ORC (June 26-29), Time (June 19-25), LA Times/Bloomberg (June 19-23), and Gallup (June 30-July 2). The poll of polls showed 10% unsure; it does not have a sampling error"  Some argument might be made that it incorporates the sampling error of its composite polls, but this is in general not a significant factor to my understanding.--Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum 15:41, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I respectfully disagree. The sampling error might be small, but there is always a sampling error.  If there are four polls that have an error of 3% and the same number of people in them, then when you poll the data, it should have a 1.5% error (3%/sqrt(4)).  Put another way, I can't say that Obama has a 48.0000% approval rating.  There must be some error in there.  Put a third way, I wasn't asked (likely you weren't either), and I'm part of the population!  You can't measure something without error.  Sterilesnore! 16:14, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * At the very least, it's a strange way of phrasing whatever it is they're trying to say. I suppose one could argue that there's not sampling error since they're polling 100% of the polls that... they've decided to poll, I guess. But obviously there will be a sampling error relative to the samples of the original polls - and surely this is what matters in the end. -- 18:26, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Sampling errors express the potential difference, statistically speaking, between the views of a sample and the views of the whole. Because a poll of polls is not sampling, but is in fact polling every representative of the group (polls), they have no sampling error.  I suppose this might be viewed as misleading, but it is precisely accurate.  With regards to that which they were measuring, the polls, they have total information and did not sample, ergo there couldn't be a sampling error.--Tom Moore fiat justitia ruat coelum 18:38, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * If they're saying what you're saying it's highly misleading and crappy stats. In my view it's as if they took 4 polls of 1200 and averaged the number to get one uber-poll of 4800 people.  You still should report a confidence interval (I'm 95% sure that Obama has a 47-49% rating. Anyway, I doubt CNN will write me back.  Sterilesnore! 19:50, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

It is still just a cracker
You can't compare the investment that people put into the cracker to a "teddy bear" if this was a specific cracker that the church kept on an alter for the last 50 years, maybe. Not to mention that this kind of idolatry is not really looked upon well throughout most of the Bible. 19:17, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Man, I eat one of these every Sunday... and guess where it comes out every Tuesday? Yeah, THAT'S disrespectful. mhmm. (That was sarcasm, people) Javascap 19:40, 10 July 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I just made a post about this incident over at Template talk:According to, believing that was the place for such discussions. Maybe we do need to keep these more centralized. DickTurpis 19:43, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I understand some people discussing things here, because it's "on" the Main Page. Trent should know better ;)  ħ uman  20:48, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * And of course now the conversation has been moved to Debate:Did PZ Myers Cross the Line?.  ħ uman  13:12, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Lenski affair
Has the story run its course? Time to retire the non-random featured link? 22:07, 10 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Meh. My parodist sock was permabanned, else I might try to goad him into a third letter. I don't think it's going to happen, much as I'd like to see the thoroughly defeated Assfly take one last pounding. DickTurpis 22:10, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I was wondering the same thing a day or two ago. I think it's old news and will go consign it to the dustbin of history.  Shall we make the Lenski affair article a "cover story" so it still turns up randomly now?  ħ uman  22:34, 10 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Make it so. -- 05:04, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I agree. Looks like it's going away.--Bobbing up 05:34, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * From what I've been picking up, the blogosphere moved past a week or so ago. Alas, ours is a bittersweet love, Lenski Affair.   05:52, 11 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I did both immediately after the post I made above.  ħ uman  13:10, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Speechless
Without the content of the full article is hard to tell the context, but peep the name in this pic (kinda NSFW - contains dildo): Image:Fmachine.jpg &mdash; Unsigned, by: BeastmasterGeneral / talk / contribs
 * Guess everyone else is speechless as well. BeastmasterGeneral 07:48, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I commented on the image talk page...  ħ uman  16:29, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Playing with the buttons
Parse error: syntax error, unexpected ')' in /home/rationa1/public_html/wiki/extensions/wigo.php on line 50


 * Come on Trent.There are bored people out here. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   10:50, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Bah! I am creating a major upgrade to the WIGO voting on the fly you are lucky the whole site isn't on fire. :) 10:52, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
 * On the Aschlafly by the way it's going! :) [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   10:56, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Artists?
I am working on a playable version of the fabulous Conservopoly over at User:Tmtoulouse/games. It is going to take me a while to get all the code in place to have a working version, but the one thing I know I can't do is create "pieces" for it. There was some talk about what pieces we might use (Jesus riding a dinosaur, largely defensive weapon of gun, 10 commandments, etc) and what I am curious about is if there is any one out there with artistic skills that would be interested in drawing up pieces for the game? 17:21, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
 * We may want to just consider using Atlantik… --<font color="#00FFFF">λινυσ (☮) 17:28, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It's minor, but Gitmo needs to be an image, too, in order to have bars. I was gonna whack something together...  As far as playing pieces, what about small cropped pictures we have of Andy and Ed, at the very least? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:54, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Help defeat a Creationist Representative in Kansas
So this bloke Sean Tevis is disgusted with his Creationist, anti-abortion, anti-evolution, pro-censorship, pro-surveillance, anti-gay incumbent Representative and he's running for...oh hell, here's the Boing Boing story and his excellent site. Send him some cash and help knock a Creationist bozo out of office! <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  19:06, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Identity struggle
I have seen several notes around the site that suggest that this is the place to post commentary that is of a general interest to the community. There does not seem to be a more appropriate place as the various "community portals" are inactive. Please forgive if this is not the proper location. I have noticed that this site relies a lot on activity at Conservapedia for its identity and the source for much of its dynamic content. I have also noticed a struggle occurring as the site appears to be having difficulty. I am also aware that as a community you have had many discussions about what happens if Conservapedia does not continue to provide the cohesion it once did and where to move next. And finally, I have seen a few attempts here and there at what appears to be extensions of the concept to other sites that have completely floundered (the metapedia, clogosphere and other such attempts). That leads me to believe that there are qualities about Conservapedia that have allowed it to be such a great engine for content that the other site have lacked. I think in looking forward (as the possibility that Conservapedia fails to come back on line in full force is real) it is important to try and define the qualities that made WIGO such a success and that other attempts to mimic it have failed. I would be interested in just knowing this even if we can not use it to find alternatives. A few to get started:


 * Dynamic, frequently (in its prime) updated content
 * The ability for users to create accounts and edit the content and structure the debate
 * A caste of strong characters with predictable responses that are antithesis to a functioning social group
 * The sense of shared community that members of this site have in that almost everyone participated in some form at conservapedia

Credulous 15:49, 21 July 2008 (EDT)


 * That pretty much sums up why CP works/worked so well as a source of cohesion and content. Even if we were to find another place that was dynamic and crazy, your fourth point would be lacking - it would be hard for us to comment on them in the way that we can about CP, which many of us know quite intimately.  That intimate knowledge also makes it easier for people to create accounts there and "blend in" if they want to.  Luckily, I'd guess that a good 20-25% or so of the content and activity here is not about CP, so if they shut down, we wouldn't collapse.  We might lose quite a few more casual editors, and people for whom WIGO CP is the be-all and end-all of RW.  But we still have a strong core and interested periphery of editors who are very concerned about other idiocy out there. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:54, 21 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm brand new, and I didn't even know about CP till (like many of the newbees), Lenski happened. But the site, (RW) is actually a good (and fun) site for understanding all your run of the mill conservative, bible-in-your-face, liberals are wrong, let's put prayer in your school arguments. That doesn't make a community, but it does make for a good site!--WaitingforGodot 18:03, 21 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I would say your analysis is quite good Credulous, although you may have slightly overstated the last one as we do have members who are almost totally uninterested in CP. What I'm not sure is where it takes us - I think (for the very reasons you state) that it would be difficult to reproduce the CP/RW situation.--Bobbing up 07:16, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 * So here is where I put in my plug for more participation in WIGO_clogosphere. I monitor one of my local nutty bloggers and a few of you have done the same, but I'm guessing there are tens if not dozens of similarly nutty cloggers you folks know about. When they post something crazy thrwo up a link. It's fun, easy and still legal! Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 15:35, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Agreed, working on a plan now to try and bring more attention to it and other things. Very Ken like I know. 15:37, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Radovan Karadzic
So, good news that they've captured the Serbian (alleged) mass murderer. But have they got the right man? <font color=Blue>Genghis   06:56, 22 July 2008 (EDT)


 * That's not the archbish. That's Daniel Dennett --Toffeeman 07:59, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Proof that atheism leads to mass slaughter--Damo2353 08:04, 22 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That's almost a closer resemblence than the Pope and Emperor Palapatine... I'm sure I'm not the only one smelling conspiracy. Armondikov 12:24, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Help - have we an article?
Is there anywhere on here with those holy pictures in an item of foodstuff. There's a new one from Nigeria:BBC. I'm sure I've seen an article somewhere, but where? 00:44, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Religious pareidolia I think. I lerned it wile ritin in teh cyclopeedya. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:14, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Page for Asking help questions?
So, "help". 1) is there a good place to say "geeze, i f-ed up and now need help out of the dung heap I created, and 2) Can someone help me out of a dung heap? I managed to create a page called "guide to 1", that was created from my stupidity in using an ampersand in the title. I don't see a way to delete a page, but it would be a good page to delete!  thanks.--WaitingforGodot 10:19, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * WfG - try the "vaporise" tab at the top of the article page. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   10:26, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
 * For the HELP question, use RationalWiki talk:Help. Someone'll see it ... ... eventually ... ... or not, or ax Human - he'll put you on a track (might be a single malt fuelled one but it'll get you there eventually) 13:12, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Interesting...
CP has, very cunningly, decided to collapse this afternoon. I can't access their pages beyond the main page. Does Aschafly believe in gremlins? Darkmind1970 09:42, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Nothing new there then. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   09:55, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

New, er, "idea"
We have been working in the shadows with a few new things for the site.

One is an "article of the weak" feature lambasting CP, as has been discussed before, with many interactive features.

The other is to extend the voting systems to the other WIGO pages (blogs, clogs, 4R, "world").

A mockup of how the front page might appear if this is implemented is NOT here ANYMORE - IMPLEMENTED (<font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT))

"According to" would be supplanted by the WIGO world (and other WIGOs).

Please for everyone except Bohdan to check things out and see what they think. Thank you for your time. Trent & <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:10, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd order it world, blogo, cp, clogo, 4R, AotW. However, the only part of that I'm really sure of is starting with world. ThunderkatzHo! 22:15, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I would like to keep AotW up top for a little while maybe, till it reaches critical mass. 22:19, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

By the way if anyone has any better title ideas than "interactive articles" I am all ears. 22:27, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * "World" coming last is a "joke" - everything else is internet... but it's easy enough to change in eight places... Otherwise, Katz, you approve? Trent, should we set up red and green arrows for this? (you can rig it so every "vote" makes it go up by 3, right?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:31, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, looking at it that way, then the order is fine as is. I'm ThunderkatzHo!, and I approve this change.  22:34, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Title: What is Going On. It's inclusionary. (not signed in.)


 * Great idea.  I just came up with the same idea independently, before blundering into this.   Yes, I would love to see the new Main Page design have a "What Is Going On" section, with single direct links to each of our WIGO's.   Separate space for each topic too.   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  23:04, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I pimped youse guys header idea on the sandbox. DP, what does "Separate space for each topic too" mean? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:29, 24 July 2008 (EDT)


 * I like it. The only thing seeing they (almost) all start the same is calling the box "What is Going on ...", and then just titling them "At Conservapedia", "In the Fourth Reich", and so forth. $\approx$$\pi$ 23:41, 24 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Does the plainlinks interfere with the WIGO voting? I always dislike those little arrow squares. $\approx$$\pi$ 23:43, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Good point about title versus link name, pi guy. I'll sleep on it and play tomorrow?  Plainlinks, good point.  It probably doesn't, but Trent might be the guy to answer that one... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:18, 25 July 2008 (EDT)


 * I like the idea, and the current setup. And knowing the reasoning behind it, I like it even more. 11:38, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I know I'm late but, it would be cool if we could show the latest WIGO in each category on the main page as a sort of teaser to the real thing. Space and tech constraints might prevent this Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 13:27, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Something like that had occurred to me, too... we can try to add it if Trent thinks it's possible? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:16, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Namespace for AotW
Over in the comments section at AotW I think it was Pi that suggested AotW be moved to Conservapedia:Article of the weak. Thoughts? 11:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * My one thought on it is that CP has a maximum number of worthy articles and we will be likely pulling from other places than just CP maybe a few AIG articles or something. At the moment we are using CP articles but we may expand, in that case it should stay in RW namespace but drop the Conservapedia part of its name. 11:24, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Not having it in Conservapedia namespace means we can include items from other webshites - eg Creationwiki, Genesis Park (I love Genesis Park) and assorted neocon crack. Totnesmartin 11:31, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I agree. maybe we should even rename it to drop the "CP" now?  And edit the main page stuff so the article could be from anywhere?  (even a blog post?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:17, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Let us drop the CP part of the title and adjust the templates and descriptions accordingly.

16:30, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Well done yous twos
Looks good. 21:21, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

TWIGO
What's happened to the redirect of TWIGO to WIGO talk? Or was it WIGOT? No it was TWIGO! 22:20, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Huh? Speak in linksish, please, person of the G-ish persuasion! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Used to just type "TWIGO" into the search box & hit "Go" and hey presto: there we are at "What is going on at Conservapedia talk". 'S gone. 22:26, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, we need the lazylinks. Ressurect them! 22:28, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Seems I'm mistaken - no deleted page of either TWIGO or WIGOT. Getting Eld! 22:30, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Or maybe you meant ? 22:31, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I doubt it... anyway, the trouble with them now is that there are four more front page reffed "WIGO" pages. Should we make redirects from WIGOCP, WIGO4R, WIGOFR, WIGOB, WIGOC, etc.?  Will people use them? (if they will, of course we should have the "lazylinks", but will they?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:34, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Fun & Recipe
Why does the links break on when the template is transcluded or what ever it is called, but work fine on the template itself? Is there a way around this? $\approx$$\pi$ 03:31, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Please provide examples? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:36, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * When you actual at the page RationalWiki:Contents, fun has the url, http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=106, when you click on it on the main page it takes you to, http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special%253AAllpages&from=&namespace=106, It has stuck a 25 in between % and 3 taking you to the wrong url. Do we need a fun and recipes category to get around this? $\approx$$\pi$ 03:41, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Works OK for me. What browser are you using (I'm on Firefox) 03:49, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I've got Firefox and still have this problem. $\approx$$\pi$ 03:57, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I see the break... chasing it... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:58, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Weird. They work from the "template" which is RationalWiki:contents, but they don't work from the mainpage.  I can't solve this now, but maybe Trent or someone else can help tom'w.  Thanks for the bugdate! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  04:04, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry pi they don't work for me - you're right. I misread your post. 04:09, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yup, epic phail, and for who knows how long - probably since we set it up. No wonder those links are a weird shade of blue.  Or... a whiter shade of pale? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  04:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorted (replaced " %3A " with ":" in the transcluded bit (must have been asciing the "%")) 08:54, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Stupendous work Susan! What would we do without you? [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   09:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * We'd spell things correctly 09:40, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * We are not amused! 09:50, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I apologise... 09:53, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Good things come to those who sleep on problems... thanks, Susan! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:18, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Sleep? You've been to sleep? 19:11, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Just out of curiosity, why are there 2 versions in the same place - one for the contents page & i for transclusion with <noinc|ude> <inc|udeony>etc 16:29, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * The contents page one only lists 3 in each category. The noinclude part shows all the "best of..." articles. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:47, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Aah! hadn't done a side by side so didn't notice. 18:55, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Aah! hadn't done a side by side so didn't notice. 18:55, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Has Ben Stein always been this stupid?
"75,000 people screaming at an outdoor arena, that's just too much. It's just -- it's scarily authoritarian."

That is why we must eliminate Hannah Montana before she grows too powerful. Sic semper tyrannus! DickTurpis 08:03, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Put me out of my misery: WTF is Hannah Montana? 08:11, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, what she said. -- 08:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * You're showing your age - ask any 14yr old girl. She's Disney's latest merchandising shifter. Silver Sloth 08:23, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Mmm, having done extensive research, I find her to be a 14 y.o. gril. At least she's not a blond bimbo but - jailbait? 08:31, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * To return to the original question: Have you read about "No Intelligence ..."? 08:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I always wonder about these people who go to political rallies - why? 08:35, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Being part of a huge crowd all cheering at the same thing is a very pleasant feeling for most people. (If you're the one person NOT cheering, a great deal less pleasant.) --Gulik 13:52, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Is Stein stupid, or just shameless? I suspect he's trying to spread a meme that promotes the agenda of whoever is paying him. Just like any other meme, the truth of it is not the most important aspect, just its ability to reproduce. Now I don't disagree that it's a stupid thing to say, but as to whether this makes Stein stupid? I remain to be convinced.--Damo2353 08:40, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * That's a good point. 14:00, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, he sounds like a hopeless drunk on television. Either that or he has a continuous nasal issue that could use medical attention.

Ace McWickedInteresting 08:48, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Could be gastric reflux. Gaviscon sorted it out for me. I still sound nasal but that's just my natural accent. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   09:22, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Hannah Montana is also Billy Ray "achey-breaky Mullet" Cyrus' daughter. Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 13:28, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * This issue was already raised... but who the heck is Hannah Montana? *performs Google search*

lovin' the new front page
I mean, it's really great. Might want to change the wording a little in the new template, but if it works for everyone else, it's good enough for me.-- -PalMD -- 22:17, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Feel free to try to improov the Inglish, Doc. Links to all the templates are at the top of the talk:AOTW page.  Two clicks from main. And we are glad you like it! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:35, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Only think I don't like is that I have to click more.... Sterilesnore! 14:09, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * To get from where to where, Sterile? I'm all for streamlining the navigability... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:18, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * It's not a big deal--I'm just used to typing in rationalwiki.com and seeing what's under "According to..." without having to click the subheadings. Now I have to click on one.  I think my index finger can handle it though.  Sterilesnore! 17:04, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Ah, ok. You could always use a bookmark ;)  Personally, my "home" page is my watchlist, so I go check stuff like that out when they get changed... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:40, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Freak!
00:30, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

McCain
I read a CNN piece on The Times rejection of McCain's essay, and I found this quote by McCain about Obama.

"I find it ironic that he is emulating the worst mistake of the Bush administration by waving the 'Mission Accomplished' banner prematurely."

Ummmm....Didn't you say along with Bush....Mission Accomplished? And Isn't Obama not saying "Mission Accomplished" but the exact opposite, that the "mission" failed and was....fucking stupid to begin with? Maybe? -- 01:28, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Huw
Anyone seen him today? -- 01:40, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Who, me? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:22, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * No the other guy with the impossibly Welsh name. --71.8.59.31 03:00, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Oh, newr myndd. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:03, 27 July 2008 (EDT)

Random page
Would it be desirable or even possible to include "Conservapedia" namespace when hitting Random page? There's pages in "Main" that I've only found by accidental clicking Rp & there must be more in "Conservapedia" (I had no idea that we had this until I searched for something totally unrelated.)  23:50, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Not desirable, that's why we have the namespace in teh first place. I often find things I didn't know we had by following links.  Certainly, tracking RC isn't going to lay out the whole site, however, the CP namespace still all fits on one "all pages" listing, IIRC. What was your goal...? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:59, 27 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Some of our best stuff is there - random visitors are likely to hit RP & never find them. Twas just a thought! No matter. Move along. Nothing to see. Gimme a coffee! Bye! 00:09, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

More shameless capitalism
In my continued efforts to limit the time I have to spend bugging the site users to give me money I have been mulling over something. The google ads are bringing in just enough to make it worthwhile to continue to use them, and donations have covered the remainder. To decrease the amount that donations need to cover (less begging from me) I wanted to try the Amazon referral program. Basically construct something like a RationalWiki:Book shelf where we could recommend books in various topics and then link them to amazon. Any thoughts? (p.s. this is not me asking for money I was able to pay for 6 months of hosting service so we are okay till January just thinking ahead). 16:45, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
 * You mean like RationalWiki:Recommended Books? Sterilesnore! 16:48, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
 * There ya go, it is all ready there......I could convert them to links and stick it some place more prominent. If we want. 16:49, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I'd bet RW would be the only site to link Goats: A Guide to Management. Sterilesnore! 16:51, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
 * We need to sync our ISBN autolink through any referral program you set up. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:03, 28 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Yay, capitalism! Good idea. Be sure to get amazon.co.uk as well if possible. -- 04:32, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Earthquake
(I hope everythings ok...) 10 points to the first person to find a fundy site saying God is punishing (insert conservative target here) for their lack of morality... Sterilesnore! 16:00, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Has died.  06:30, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Tonight on Channel 4
Just a reminder for UK editors. The Genius of Charles Darwin  by Dawkins at 20:00 on C4. <font color=Blue>Genghis   14:06, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Dunno if the rest of you'll be able to see it on t'Internet at some time. 14:38, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You need a UK IP or a UK-based proxy to access content. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   17:45, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Unhappily he has got negative charisma, I just can't watch a whole hour of him. He should keep to print, that's where he shines. Or get a pro broadcaster to front for him. (IMHO) 18:40, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Interesting CP Userbox
I noticed an interesting userbox on Jinx's user page on CP a while ago, and I wonder what the creator of this userbox was trying to say. It's called "Gunlawdarfur", has a picture of what I assume is intended to be a genocidal militant from Darfur, and has this text: "This user knows committers of genocide hate gun control." Considering that most conservatives believe in reduced or eliminated gun control (it could be said that some hate gun control), what are they trying to say? Surely they're not deliberately comparing themselves to "committers of genocide" ?... OneForLogic 22:03, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I mentioned to people a couple weeks ago to look at KinkyShoes' uxben. I guess the cat's out of the bag now... Pity. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:14, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It's.....beautiful. Wikinterpereter did it. It has lasted a yeah and a quarter. That is the Epicest of Lulz. Beautiful. -- 22:20, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Scheisse! I've been having a quiet giggle every time I've seen his damn stupid name and now he'll remove it - or not. 22:27, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Sorry, should I have not mentioned it? I imagine lots of them use that box without realizing what they're saying. You can go on laughing at them. And what's this about "Wikinterpereter"? I'd never heard of it. OneForLogic 22:37, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Well, a lot (it would seem) of us have been chortling over it for a while. Wikinterpreter = User:Interpreted 22:47, 4 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah. Duh. It's the user that made it. I thought "Wikinterpereter" might mean some kind of translation bot or script. I know those tend to be really bad. OneForLogic 22:48, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

He also apparently supports himself as the rightful leader of Conservapedia. Smyth 17:30, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, explicitly so, even! --Sid 17:36, 6 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmmm... first time I've looked at his user page. Interesting, and a D&D nerd to boot, sort of explains EVERYTHING :S. Armondikov 21:12, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

Auto refreshing recent changes
A couple of you may be interested in the code I have on User:Kirkburn/monobook.js. It refreshed the RC and watchlist pages once every 60 seconds without doing a full page refresh. Kirkburn 09:05, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Neat idea! Is it "adjustable" by incompetents? How about portability (ie, would it run on CP, too?) <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  18:28, 6 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Yup, should work on any wiki - just copy the code straight over. To change the refresh time, it's the  line, where 60000 is 60 seconds. To add it to your own account, copy it to Special:Mypage/Monobook.js. To have it available for any user, it would go on MediaWiki:Monobook.js - I'm fairly sure it would work there. Example: http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Recentchanges Kirkburn 16:29, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * So is the "Ajax" checkbox what it creates? Also, I put it my user space like yours is, not doing anything yet, I suppose I might need to restart FF or something. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:43, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Once it's there, a browser cache refresh (normally ctrl+f5) should bring it up. Kirkburn 16:45, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * KB, can you upload a quick screenshot of what it is supposed to do, from here? I still get nothing obvious... I prefer WL to RC, but either is fine. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:04, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * OK, I've endlessly cache-cleaned, even repowered up (thank you, weather), and still no obvious change to my WL or to RC. Am I missing something? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  21:51, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, you might need to turn on Enhanced Recent Changes from your preferences? Kirkburn 09:47, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

New JREF president
Did anyone hear the news that Phil Plait, of Bad Astronomy fame, will be assuming the presidency of the James Randi Educational Foundation? 13:21, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Wow, yes. Good for him!--Bobbing up 13:49, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

Rearrangement
I have copied in a new version of the main page (all content is the same). The AotW and WIGO sections are now above the "participate" section on the right, and the "featured article" and "contents" on the left are now in their own box separate from "about". I took the liberty of adding the third secondary color for the "new" box on the left, mostly to appease the outrageous and demanding Orangists in our ranks. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:08, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Complain! Complain!
 * I don't really mind what you do with the main page, actually. I hardly ever see it -- like most regular users, I expect. I just think it looked neater when it was purple n' blue. Matches the brain logo... and I have a thing about simple colour schemes, also. I love our new WIGO box, though. 17:59, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I think our colour scheme should include puce. Prominently so. Can that be arranged? -- 18:03, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes. Please look into this gaseous briefcase for a moment. 18:07, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

I actually really like the new arrangement. As to the colours - hell, we've lived through every possible design scheme but never this, so I say it's yellow's turn. <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  18:47, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The colour #4004BC is rather bilious... Totnesmartin 18:52, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hehehe... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:02, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I actually have one problem with it. In the top left hand corner box, there is a lot of white space and that's very annoying to me and my OCD. -- 16:33, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's a place for you to stick your chewing gum. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  17:53, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Ouch! That's because IE sucks.  Please upgrade to Firefox ;)  It's free, and better. Sorry I didn't catch that, I actually did check most of my versions along the way to make sure they worked in that POS MS program, but missed that phailure.  I'll see if I can crowbar it into working. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:56, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I have tried Firefox. I have firefox on my desktop. I hate firefox. Maybe it's my Bill Gates fetish, but I'm more comfortable with IE. -- 02:04, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * ORLY? I have always found netscape, mozilla, and now firefox to be a step or two ahead of that MS shite.  But please, if you can come up with a sandbox version that IE doesn't totally fuck up and still works in FF, etc., please feel free to share. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:32, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * After a day's reflection, I think three colours is too much  The colour scheme needs to be simplified.   <font color="#00F0A20">DogP  21:53, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Feel free to make a suggestion? PS, I think the problem might be that you can't spell "color"?  Hehe... everyone knows that an excess of Us gives a body indigestion! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:45, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

Internet explorer
The new front page is foobar enough in IE that we might have to revert back if we can't come up with a solution. One thing that would help is to abandon the "random" entries from wigo so that we have a set size for the right hand boxes. 03:11, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yah, I dunno why IE can't decipher three rows of indeterminate height! POS.  Even getting rid of the random thing won't make a "fixed" height, since that depends on screen width. Maybe if it rains agian tomorrow I'll try some other solutions in sandbox. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:39, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Looking at the source, I'm actually fairly surprised that it renders at all. My intuition is going all "BWAH?" at the fact that your first row got two columns while the next two rows have only one column each. And yet, both Firefox and my Mac IE (*shudder*) treat it as a 2*2 field of boxes. I'll see if I can sandbox something until you wake up. This thing made me curious. --Sid 07:12, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Update to my post there: I later on understood what Human did (because looking back, I actually did the exact same thing this evening). Very weird that Explorer has trouble with the RowSpan attribute. *FROWNS* --Sid 16:02, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hehe, yeah, what I did is totally non-intuitive. Using 3 rows that are only occupied by two cells each and letting the browser do the rest.  I had done it before elsewhere.  Have no idea why IE puked on it.  Anyway, it's easy to fix, just need more nesting. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:54, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * In my experience wiki-table markup tends to have less variability across browsers than typing html tags into wikis. I think the way around this is with a wiki-table made of two columns and each column containing a separate wiki-table made of two rows. If someone can come up with something better over the next few days please do. $\approx$$\pi$ 07:38, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm currently experimenting with the "one table per column" thing, actually. No need for wiki-tables (I'd normally be tempted to use them since this is a wiki, but with all the custom CSS markup, I think that wiki-table formatting would melt my brain.), though it's a question of taste, I guess. --Sid 07:43, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I've made a quick sandbox that renders okay in my Mac IE. The downside is that the lower edges of the lower boxes don't line up anymore. :-/ I'll keep brainstorming, though. --Sid 08:08, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I swapped a functional version back in (basically it's the old "all grey on left" with the two right side sections swapped). It's really not rocket science to get it to work, I just was trying to reduce the table nesting.  Also, yeah, Sid, the wiki table syntax is awful for things like this, since you can't "read" it the way you can html. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:49, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

For those who don't boycott CP
I tried to stay away. But finally I gave up. Many WIGO worthy edits. But this goes over my boycott threshold and I feel it must be made public, boycott or not. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 15:40, 10 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Personally, I think he's just lonely because of the boycott, and he wants us to pay attention to him again. --Kels 15:51, 10 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I have not boycotted (please, dont hurt me) and find it amusing that Andy has claimed that his American History class is possibly the largest in the world. Is that so Andy? Ace McWicked aint signed in.


 * My reply comments for the strike-breakers. 19:48, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

Andy deleted this from the Talk page reply:

We teach sex-ed to teach you how to control desires and how you can be sexually active in a healthy manner, which is why it's more likely teenagers taught sex-ed will use a condom instead of being caught without one, so much for the theory of abstinence uber ales''. (And we don't teach the lie that masturbating will lead to blindness, I think that little white lie leads to whole lot more mental instability then all the false lies you use to smear liberals).''

20:52, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

And I'm blocked for writing that Andy is a idiot on my User Page, what a brown noser! 

22:37, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Blocked again huh, sorry to hear that.--DamoHi 23:02, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

The temptation! WHYYYYYYYYYY? --<font color="#00FFFF">λινυσ (☮) 10:16, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Can I haz Sysop powers
I'd like to be a sysop, where do I apply? 22:49, 10 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Reject - Failure to use proper "I CAN HAZ" syntax, plus spelling last word correctly. Clearly not RW material. =D --Kels 22:57, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Pretty pleaze with a goat on top... 23:01, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Automatic fail, Goat should be capitalized. It is obvious you don't have the interests of RW at heart.--DamoHi 23:04, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Second automatic fail, Goats like it better on the bottom. ThunderkatzHo! 23:09, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * PLEAZZE, I IZ LERND IN JOOWISH SKOOL WHARE NOT TEECB INGLISH 23:11, 10 August 2008 (EDT)

While it was a good attempt at lolspeek, it did fall short. This r sers bizness. But, I urge you to temper your auto-reject with a citation for valor: the man just got blocked for two weeks for putting "This user things Aschlafly is an idiot" on his userpage :-). SRS brownie points.- 23:24, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, that was trying too hard. How 'bout we discuss this at our next Elders of Zion meeting, 'mkay?  ThunderkatzHo! 23:25, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It was made last night in a moment of anger over the cp:Bob Jones University (see teh assflys talk page) it wasn't about brownnosing. I IZ SYSOP NOW! 23:30, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I meant your lolspeak was trying too hard. I completely agree about the Bob Jones thing, but honestly, it's nothing new from Schlafly.  ThunderkatzHo! 23:38, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I would have voted "against" just based on the blaring signature. I'm surprised it isn't blinking... Anyway, the art is to call Schlafly out and not get blocked for it! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:41, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I was angry and I'd just finished one of the Jewish fast days, well, at least I have an excuse to obey the boycott, The sig is to show off my mad Cyrillic skills. 02:54, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I would never grant Sysopship to a Dljejajijeja. Or Dleyaiyeya as they want it transliterated. ДЛернер I could stand instead. Or even ДЛэрнэр :-D (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 03:47, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, your R's and N's are backwards, and the rest of your letters look like furniture. Mind if I call you "credenza" from now on? And isn't it weird that the guy who wrote up the Russian alphabet was named "Cyril"??? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  05:29, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Goddamnit
I want sysop powers also! Argh damnit. Ace McWickedNeeds more power 03:17, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * But your signature is written in Roman characters... You should change it to say "supersize me", in gold and red, and don't forget the arches! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:21, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Cronyism is rife over here, I should have known. You filthy Nazi. I have seen and dealt with your kind before. Ace McWickedDances for no man 03:24, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Don't punch me, or I shall be forced to confine you to the henhouse! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  03:30, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * You humans are all the same. Ace McWickedBipedaling 03:35, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

New Template
'''To Whom it may concern:

cc: The Goat'''

Using my many Jew powers and a lot of my Jew gold I have created a template of new.

turns into

Wow, sorry to impugn your efforts, but what a waste of time... that's what "See also" sections pretty much do. Anyway, no harm. No blood, no foul... And don't call me anti-Semitic for criticizing your Jew powerz!!! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  06:06, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Warning of potential outage for rationalwiki.com
I am in the processes of dealing with domain registration, rationalwiki.org and rationalwiki.net are scheduled to expire soon. Also our DNS is scheduled to expire in just a few weeks. I am extending our registration by 3 years (so you had all better still be here damn it) and hence why you maybe seen a new "chipin" asking for donations. All of the various domains except for rationalwiki.com are registered with the owner of our VPS. To make life easier I am transferring rationalwiki.com to the same registrar that all the other domains reside at. Depending on how smoothly this transfer goes rationalwiki.com could have some downtime/outage. Worse case scenario we could loss it for a day or so, more probable a few hours. If it looks like there will be extended downtime I will move rationalwiki.org from a redirect to .com to the actual site.

Summary

 * Rationalwiki.com may stop working sometime this week. If it lasts too long rationalwiki.org will be made to work till it is sorted out.
 * Donations are now being accepted once more :).

21:30, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Why not just let it expire and take the site down? Good riddance. People who are so psychologically unstable fundamentalist Darwinist fanatics that they absolutely cannot accept the existence of a website containing creationist material without the urge to sabotage and stalk said website, probably should not be on the Internet in the first place. &mdash; Unsigned, by: spider / talk / contribs


 * Where is this cretinist material you speak of? I should like to visit the site, I'm bored of reading lolcats. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  22:19, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Ah nothing like juvenile ranting and seething hatred to validate ones existence. 22:30, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Workarounds
Navigate to http://207.58.177.84/ to get here if we do have a domain name issue. This may redirect you to rationalwiki.com, but it's worth a shot. --<font color="#00FFFF">λινυσ (☮) 23:20, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * McLean, Virginia? Hot Coffee 23:25, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Lumpy beans, most likely. The way we like them! <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  01:05, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Warning over?
Has the renewal and transfer been completed, Trent? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  16:00, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Seems so. 16:15, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

Intercom test will go away few seconds
WTF was that? Suddenly the phrase "Intercom test will go away few seconds" appeared all over RationalWiki, in many places, and indeed went away after a few seconds (and a few page refreshes). Is one of you testing a new secret weapon, or have we, also, been hax0red?

I, for one, welcome our new Moldavian overlords. --Marty 01:55, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It's been happening a lot, with various different strings. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about. 01:57, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Trent is playing with something I asked him to build, based on some user requests and comments. He loves him a challenge, part of my job is to keep pushing him ;). <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:08, 15 August 2008 (EDT)
 * suddenly I want to eat pie, do drugs and have unprotected sex. Is this "test" related?Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 16:26, 15 August 2008 (EDT)

More techical issues?
Today I'm getting everything on Rationalwiki appearing about 50% bigger than it should (text, pictures, all of it). Is anybody else getting the same? I can view all other websites OK. <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId <font color="brown" face="Mufferaw">bite me 08:04, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, Genghis has (see user talk:Tmtoulouse ). Also I've got a spare Backslash ( \ ) @ the top of every page - strange! 08:34, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah, that's there too. I'm guessing it must be something in the coding of the layout for RW.  <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId <font color="brown" face="Mufferaw">bite me 08:52, 16 August 2008 (EDT)


 * At a guess someone (?) has fucked up while implementing a message box. Wonder who?

Is it fixed? 13:11, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, it is now. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   13:21, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

T-Shirt stupidity
Ok, I just want to guage opinions from others.... I won't make any comments for now... but what does everyone else think about this T-shirt... Just wondering
 * That girl is hot Exasperate me!<font color="#649CD6">Sheesh! Not the most impressive contributor here 22:07, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It sums up conservatives, yearning for the repressive utopia of yesteryear. Conservatives support research into time travel, not so they can see the wonders of the future, but so they can live out the rest of their lives in the early 1950's.
 * Also, that girl could use a big hunk of meat, and I mean that entirely uneuphemistically.--Antifly 22:26, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hehe, I have a "JFK 04" button somewhere. Teh dems are as nostalgic for their heroes as teh GOP. Of course, the dems were running a JFK, but still. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:14, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Joke: I didn't know Michael Reagan was running.  Or is it Ron Jr.? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  23:15, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

Sheesh, she is kinda hot, but the uberconservativeness drops her out of the range of the doable. Ugh. Also, ThoseShirts is a well known purveyor of hate.- 23:31, 16 August 2008 (EDT)
 * She's probably just a model. Think they turn money down just because they don't like the clothes?  So go ahead, Ames, you can, er, do her if you can get permission from 1) her, 2) your girlfriend, 3) your kitteh, and 4) Bohdan. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:08, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The shirt reminds me of this gem from Lewis Black ENJOY! youtube audio link. 00:10, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Ok, responding to all of them in order... First, the girl is not hot... she looks like a young Ann Coulter (Guess that skinny look is in for Conservatives) Two, I laugh whenever people (especially middle class people) talk about how good it was under Reagan... We were locking up black people left and right for smoking weed, the economy was in the toilet, the deficit was soaring and we illegal funding terrorists... Exactly what I want to remember. Three, I found the JFK more of an attempt to portray Kerry as a JFK type, you know, military hero, young, but nowhere even close in the sex romps, Four, I don't know about the whole hate thing... Tshirthell.com has shirts that attack the left and the right, I don't consider it political, just in business to make money.  I think companies find a niche and learn what sells. I think that's everything. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  03:43, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Socks, respect, and their real selfs
Many of us have socks over there at CP. Some of us, either for parody lulz or for gaining more CP power, tend to act worse than the worst of Andy's acolytes. I'm sure Bugler is a real nutjob, but just for the sake of the example, let's say that Bugler is one of us. If he only praised Andy and his bunch, I'd be fine with that. But he treats people badly. He blocks and insults. He laughs at some of the moderate users. His edits are more hate than parody.


 * I know "the end justifies its means" (does it?). I know rising up the ranks and then blowing CP up is a good idea. I know Bugler's behaviour helps to make CP the laughingstock of internet. I also know that Bugler enjoys himself immensely.


 * Still Bugler frustrates me. I have no respect for him. This also translates to his real self. If he outs and tells us he was just a parodist all along, I won't completely "forgive" him or "forget" his actions. If it turns out that Bugler is Susan or Human or AKjeldsen, just to say some figures I respect and admire, I will respect and admire them less (but still some, given their contributions here). What I'm saying is that being a parodist doesn't justify such bad behaviour and actions, for me - even if those actions were "necessary" to gain Andy's trust.


 * And no, Bugler didn't interact with me on CP; and no, I am skeptic sure Bugler is a "legitimate" nutjob, not one of us. I took him as an example only. What do you think? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 15:31, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Bugler has blocked me for three months for not hardly nothing (raising some legitimate criticisms of a couple of articles). Seems a bit excessive.  I don't see any reason to believe he's a parodist or infiltrator, but have seen this idea suggested elsewhere on RW.  Is it based on anything?  I don't think a real parodist would use as many blocks or for as long.  If they did, I also wouldn't have much respect for them.  <font color="maroon" face="Hurry Up"> w easeLOId <font color="brown" face="Mufferaw">bite me 16:06, 17 August 2008 (EDT)


 * I personally have no problem with socks, especially if they're warm and fluffy. HOWEVER, vandalism is wrong, period. If you use socks in order to debate, or to get around a unfair and vindictive block, that's fine with me. With regards to Bugler; I think he's the real thing (a nut), I once got a three day block for writing "that's pretty libelous", so even if he is a sock, I think he is way out of line. 20:42, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Oh please you guys have no idea just what it takes to create such a wonderful character or how much skill it takes to create a sock that fits perfect at CP and another that fits perfect at RW. CP is oblivious to Bugler and you are oblivious to the deep sock in your "cabal" &mdash; Unsigned, by: vandal / talk / contribs
 * There isn't one. 22:04, 17 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Yes, it takes a lot of effort to envelop a character, I still think whoever does it is a putz. Blocking longtime contributers for having a different opinion, or for criticizing (not the user) contributions is a dicky move if you're a sock. The end (not sure what the end is, JJacob blocked all the Sysops for how long?) does not justify the means.
 * In fact these sort of actions make Asfly and the rest say "see, we told you liberals are scum, they deceive us and go on a rampage". Wouldn't we be pissed did the same to us. Remember the GOLDEN RULE people. 20:56, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

-
 * The socks I've used over there have pretty soon been blown up, I can't withhold my contempt for the whole site long enough to be taken seriously. I have a couple or so that are sleeping with no edits - the only way I can stay unblocked! Bungler makes me ashamed to share a nationality - he's gotta be a Brit, or at least have been here a while, but he's so far out of the mainstream that he'd be invisibly distant in any diagram of the British political spectrum. Thanks for the respect/admiration (totally misplaced but appreciated) Ed@ 21:02, 17 August 2008 (EDT)


 * Same here on the sock thing... I have created three or four that were intended to be deep cover, get me into the inner circle, but then something happens that I just can't let it go and start arguing, which gets me in trouble and poof. Goodbye sock.  As for what Vandal said... there is no reason for anyone at CP to create a sock, unless it's to hide from CP Anger. Note the history TK, Helpjazz, Jinx and others have here. <font color="#000066" >SirChuckB  22:17, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I think I saw my name somewhere on this thread... PEOPLE!!! It's only a crappy website. It's not a worldwide disaster if someone gets blocked there.  I see people saying "don't block my socks"??!!!??!!  Really, does that make any sense?  If I had a CP sock (which I don't) that had block rights, wouldn't you expect me to use it as "intended", as long as it was a comfy sock?  Doh... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  02:26, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, you sound almost as if... Really, Human, people go to CP for whatever reasons, many with their "real" usernames, others as socks having been banned before. Whether it's "only a crappy website" or not, they have feelings and suffer if treated badly. And Bugler no, doesn't use his powers as "intended", he abuses them even by Andy's standards. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 10:10, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Largest skepticism wiki?
There's a lot of good skepticism organizations, and good skepticism podcasts. I was wondering what the largest skepticism wiki was. RationalWiki does a pretty good job already, but are there any bigger ones?


 * skepticwiki.org &mdash; only 58 edits this past month, but they have a decent set of pages already
 * socialskeptic.wikia.com &mdash; stillborn
 * And of course, Wikipedia has some content, mainly under Category:Scientific skepticism.

So is RationalWiki where it's happening for skepticism wikis? If so, that means it'll outlive Conservapedia? --Toiretni 19:09, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The wikipedia project wp:Wikipedia:WikiProject Rational Skepticism is fairly large, but they are hampered by certain wikipedia content regulations that I think really limit what can be done. Would be nice to find a way to interface more with the diverse internet skeptic community. Though our existence is leaking out piecemeal day by day. 19:19, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yeah. Since Wikipedia's breadth is unlimited, it necessarily has to limit its depth.  I think that it's normal and healthy to have specialized wikis that go beyond what Wikipedia intends to cover. And as long as wikis have compatible licenses, having separate wikis isn't that big of a deal.
 * Anyway, count me in for improving the skepticism articles here. Is there a list of "most needed articles" or somesuch for the skepticism content?  If I can find the podcast episode that covered it really well, I was going to create the scientific suppression page. --Toiretni 19:34, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Perhaps a RationalWiki:Skepticism project would be appropriate to start? 19:36, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * NPOV pretty much makes this a non wp project. I've been spreading the word a little bit to skeptics groups, but not everyone is a wikiholic.-- [[Image:Asclepius staff.png|8px]]-PalMD -- 19:38, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I actually think that a wiki is best suited for a lot of the content I consume. Mainly I just listen to podcasts, I don't know about the magazines, but IMHO, &gt;50% of the skepticism podcast content isn't "newsy" content, rather it's non-time-sensitive educational stuff.  The main reason that podcasts take time to cover it is because Wikipedia won't go into so much depth.
 * Yeah, I think a wikiproject or at least a portal would be a good idea. Maybe it's just that most articles here have a skepticism bent to them, but it seems like the skepticism content doesn't have any portal-like main page...  it's scattered about Category:Pseudoscience, Category:Woo, Category:Alternative medicine, etc.  Maybe if there was one page that we could point people to to say "see, RationalWiki is more than just a bunch of Conservapedia-bashers, it's serious about skepticism too", then more skepticism people would take it seriously.  --Toiretni 19:48, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * That's one's easy to answer: main page, and all the articles in the main space. Cp is more of a "side project" (its own namespace to unclutter main), that just happens to see a lot of activity. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  20:25, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Wb, btw, and which friggin nym are you gonna use?-- [[Image:Asclepius staff.png|8px]]-PalMD -- 19:49, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Both? I have been and will be 100% professional on CP, and I do have a few mutually agreeable things to get done over there.  But I'd rather not have to be 100% professional when I'm here, thus the "alternate" name, while the other is used for cross-wiki conversations.  Though I'm probably not fooling anyone.  --Toiretni 20:04, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * How about an über category Scepticism as a start? 19:53, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The nice thing about a project page is that you can do things like "good articles" "need improvement" "priority articles" "suggested articles" that kind of stuff that categories don't really touch. Not to say we don't have need of a Skepticism category. 19:59, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

Completely arbitrary land marks
When we first started I set the 5 million page views as a completely arbitrary land mark for the wiki. The main reason I noted it was most abandoned wikis that seemed to have started off strong always seem to have between 5-10 million page views. Merely naturalistic observation but it seems that the time period between those numbers is very "trying" on a wiki. Just an interesting aside for my own thoughts. Carry on good people! 23:45, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
 * This wiki is dying :( <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:02, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Is not! 00:08, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Is too! :P <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:20, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Everyone if we are to save RationalWiki we must get past 10 million, we can do this if we all work together. to drive up the pagecounts. &mdash; Unsigned, by: 3.14159 / talk / contribs 00:23, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * What the hell is that and what does it do? 00:24, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * It purges the page, there by causing to page count to go up by one. $\approx$$\pi$ 00:25, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmmm. We detect a trick. We do not listen ^_^ 00:26, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * If we are to save RW, we need to add articles and edit them. We need to find nutjobs and refute them, not just add them to the WIGOs.  We need to keep up with the AotW, and have several proposed things to refute at any given time.  And, in the meantime, laugh at the assfly and his silly blog... <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:50, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * We are adding articles, your perception is off cause you only look at your watch list not recent changes :). 00:52, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Haha, pwned. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  00:58, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I've actually started clicking "random page" and editing what I can. The only trouble is that articles come into two categories, ones that are pretty much complete, or ones that are stubs but I have no knowledge in. :S Is there a list of things to do, the Article Creation Drive isn't that helpful. Armondikov 08:39, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * As a tangent to what you are doing, if you find one of those little articles you know little about, even a tiny edit at least brings it up on "recent changes", and someone else might see it and improve it (heck, you don't actually have to change it at all, just click "edit", write an edit comment saying "someone help fix this stub" then click "save"). Also, the "stub" template adds the "very short article" category - so maybe looking at the category to see if there are things in it that you know about might help you strike gold? <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:16, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Article of the Strong
Is "Article of the Weak" purposely misspelled? Or do we mean Article of the Week? ThunderkatzHo! 09:43, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Think it's INTENTIONAL. 10:49, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, it's intentional. For two reasons, at least - one, the awful pun, and two, we aren't really committed to putting up a new one every week, even though we try to. <font color="#DD00DD" face="comic sans ms"> ħ uman  19:21, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
 * The pun was designed to counter CP's "Article of the Week" and at the same time to convey the muddled thinking of the targetted article. [[Image:jollyfish.gif|25px]]<font color=Blue>Genghis   10:33, 20 August 2008 (EDT)