RationalWiki:Articles for deletion/Category:Socialist moonbattery

Category:Socialist moonbattery | Result: Deleted

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Delete

 * 1) This category is vague, pointless, redundant, and therefore ultimately distracting to this site's mission. I mean literally any one of the other three "moonbattery" categories suffice for any given subject. Besides, there's an imbalance in the moonbat-wingnut ratio: there's at least one (perhaps two) category for moonbat than wingnut. G Man (talk) 04:10, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) Most of the "fill in the blank" moonbat/wingnut categories have seemed pointless and all too subjective to me. This is no exception.-Flandres (talk)
 * 3) Purge the political insanity categories. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒  talk  15:27, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 4) All of the political insanity categories should be deleted. Christopher (talk) 15:32, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 5) This and all the related wingnuttery/moonbattery categories should be culled. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 15:57, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 6) This and the rest.--ApooftGnegiol (talk) 03:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 7) The use of mental illness as a pejorative has driven me up a wall. 03:10, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 8) Aye. Inmate XIII (talk) 09:21, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 9) Yes. All the political insanity categories should indeed be deleted. Spud (talk)
 * 10) I feel like this and the other moonbattery/wingnuttery categories are too subjective and vague to keep. Magic Master (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 11) We don't need this many specific categories. I agree with User:Inmate XIII below - make 3 general categories, delete the rest. Andrew5 (talk) 01:06, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 12) -Hastur! (talk) 15:49, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 13) That's enough votes, we should delete it now. 04:13, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we're waiting on a consensus for these categories in general. Andrew5 (talk) 12:27, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We are. That's the reason I haven't deleted the page yet, even though it's been 10 days since i put this up for a vote. G Man (talk) 05:25, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We have several political insanity categories at AFD, though. My suggestion - procedual close those AFDs, and on this AFD, open up a vote on keeping the political insanity categories, keeping the main 3, and deleting all of them but there is probably a cleaner way. Andrew5 (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 * As you can see below, some specifically want voting on each of these categories, together with the support for deleting all of them being strong. Thus, what is waited for is, firstly, an AfD to be opened and ran on each category. Magic Master started some of the AfDs, but stopped about halfway. The best way to get all this unstuck is probably to add the rest of the AfDs and vote on them. Then further discussion and whatever further voting ends up done may unfold. More seem to agree on removing the categories than on what should exist in their place, so this could possibly be discussed in part in two steps. The other AfDs shouldn't be closed prematurely unless there's a vote on and a decision to change approach. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 03:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I am opposed to letting individual AFDs sort out the issue because then we can have a subjective mess due to voter trends. Thus, I believe a vote here is the most logical approach. Having 20 AFDs is going to become messy, and also bloat the log as other AFDs get less attention. I believe here is the best place for such a vote, and the other AFDs wil offer nothing but duplication and are unnecessary if a big vote is opened below. Andrew5 mobile (talk) 11:13, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Earlier, I also suggested simpler voting for all the categories, but it's too late now, because an approach has already been put into use and it would be messier to try to change it in the middle of it all. And having 10 (or maybe 12 later) AfDs is not a disaster, just a little more tedious. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 11:50, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't read through this AFD carefully so I don't know if there was a consensus to open them up as indivisual AFDs. If there was, it has to continue the way it is. If not though, then it was an attempt to subvert consensus and it should be reverted. If procedual closing is an issue, the AFDs can be deleted. Andrew5 (talk) 13:40, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That being said, I did open up the final AFD for procedual reasons only; I support keeping. Andrew5 (talk) 13:49, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 15:15, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Keep

 * 1) I think the snark draws people in so that we can then tell them the rational POV (frankly if wasn’t for this website’s is and Penn and Teller’s humor I would still believe in Greys and ghosts).. Frankly there are a lot of socialists and frankly socialism as a whole doesn’t hold up to speed with the modern science of economics and certain socialists can be a handful and be quite crap. I say as long as there’s Glenn Greenwald, George Galloway, Grover Furr, Neo-Marxists-Leninist, tankies, and other such groups I say we keep the categoryJakester499 (talk) 08:30, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Goat

 * Did that fix things? I think some of it might still be in the cache. Ah well. Now we have proper vote categories. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 04:53, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd support purging all political insanity categories, not only one. IMO imbalance is not a problem. While there are more moonbat categories, there are more people on the wingnut categories. GeeJayK (talk) 09:48, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * that's a fair assessment, but i still think this category should be deleted. it's still pointless and redundant (see our article on tautology). might as well create a "round circles" category while we're at it. G Man (talk) 15:22, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * correction: ok, it's not a tautology, nor is it necessarily redundant; however, it is still the most pointless "political insanity" category, since we already have multiple categories for moonbats and socialism/socialists. just use those instead. however, if everyone agrees to just take out the trash and purge all relevant categories, i won't object to that. G Man (talk) 04:14, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * i'm seeing a lot of votes in favor of deleting all political insanity categories. should i bring the others up for a vote? G Man (talk) 15:39, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, do it. 2804:14C:5B72:8E20:E997:25B8:60AB:FFBB (talk) 16:40, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, we could see if there's any objections to deleting them all. Any objections? If there's none, or a clear majority for deleting them all, maybe this one AfD will suffice for that too. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 03:36, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * A cursory look at the various moonbattery/wingnuttery categories reveals:
 * Category:Liberal moonbattery 2 subcategories 78 pages
 * Category:Authoritarian wingnuttery 19 subcategories 607 pages
 * Category:Authoritarian moonbattery 4 subcategories 128 pages
 * Category:Feminist moonbattery 1 subcategory 22 pages
 * Category:Conservative wingnuttery 13 subcategories 525 pages
 * Category:Libertarian wingnuttery 4 subcategories 193 pages
 * Category:Libertarian moonbattery 1 subcategory 62 pages
 * Category:Nationalist wingnuttery 11 pages
 * I strongly object to deleting any of these categories, as there are a lot of page that link to them. How to re-arrange the taxonomy of the wiki should be a separate discussion. The mooonbat/wingnut categories are a historical relic of the snark of RationalWiki, and even though the taxonomy sucks, mucking around with it should be planned and executed by consensus instead of mass deletion. I am in favor of deleting them all eventually, but not before individual AfDs. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 04:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * that's fair game. for now, we can just stick with this one. maybe we can just rename some of the categories (or in the very least, the parent "political insanity" category). G Man (talk) 04:18, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * also, if you don't mind me asking, didn't you say earlier that they should all be culled? did you change your mind after you found out how many articles were linked to them or something? G Man (talk) 04:24, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * yeah, I think they should all be culled. I haven't changed my mind. But, it's a non-trivial amount of work if we decide to do this, and we should build up a consensus on a plan to do it. I imagine that a bot could be built to remove the category "Authoritarian wingnuttery" from 607 pages in a minute or two if the community decided to delete that category. I would still like to get community feedback before we do anything like that. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 04:49, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

If I may make a suggestion? Cull everything but Category:Conservative wingnuttery and Category:Liberal moonbattery, rename them to just "Wingnuttery" and "Moonbattery", lump all the right-wing idiocy into the former, left-wing (socialist or progressive) insanity into the latter, and then dump standard liberalism-based crazy shit into Category:Centrist_stupidity

That way we're only down to three categories. Inmate XIII (talk) 09:25, 12 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't think there's any point adding/keeping such, as the dislike is mainly for too subjective categories, which in fairly recent discussion a bunch of people no longer see as worth keeping. But no clear plan of action resulted before now. Personally, I'll also vote for deleting the "Centrist stupidity" category, and maybe some categories outside "Political insanity" if they are AfD'd.
 * For political orientations, there's also already related but less subjective categories like commies/communism and fascists/fascism on the more extreme ends of the political spectrum, which would remain, and if more are needed they could be made (e.g. there's a plain "centrism" but not "centrists", which could be made). The subcategories inside of each wingnuts/moonbats/etc. category are also different/"better" and would presumably be kept outside those labels, and at least most of them are already in other categories too.
 * More AfDs, then... Do you have more in mind than a clear decision on each category as consensus for proceeding? Using a bot seems sensible once removals are decided upon. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 14:24, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I would strongly argue against deleting rhe "Centrist Stupidity" category on the grounds that it is missional. One of the biggest criticisms of centrism and centrists both on and off this site is that when they make a strong commitment to centrism for centrism's sake, they only succeed in helping authoritarians and right-wingers, and I feel that category is useful for outlining that. I'll admit it can be improved, possibly be given a proper format like a lot of the other political lunacy categories instead of just a vague paragraph at the top. Inmate XIII (talk) 17:57, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Such issues related to centrism and centrists are good to cover, yes, but how well does the category really work for that? I think that politics and politicians tend to be plopped into it based largely on their position on the political spectrum, and possibly any strong feelings the categorizer has, which is basically the problem with other contentious political categories too. If you want to cover a related thing with precision, like for example examples of the balance fallacy (one of the intended uses for "Centrist stupidity"), then having a category explicitly only about that may be better, I think. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 19:21, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I went through and purged the list a bit over the past couple days. I see what you mean, but I think we'd be better off keeping and revamping it than just scrapping it altogether, especially since it goes beyond the scope of just idiots adhering to the balance fallacy (e.g. Obama is on there for trying to be bipartisan when everyone with a brain knew that wouldn't work). I'd be willing to do the legwork myself if that's what it takes.
 * That being said, if I'm the only one who feels the need to keep that category, then it is what it is and I'll find something else to work on. Inmate XIII (talk) 20:33, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I actually, of all people, agree with you.Andrew5 (talk) 01:07, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I actually, of all people, agree with you.Andrew5 (talk) 01:07, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

i see what you mean now. thanks for elaborating. also, i like 's idea of just boiling it down to a few major categories "moonbattery/wingnuttery/centrist stupidity". that seems like a fair compromise. G Man (talk) 23:48, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I dislike that proposal; those categories would remain vague and highly subjective. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒  talk  03:04, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: from a technical perspective User:Inferno Bot can and has been used to remove categories in the past. -- Techpriest (talk) 18:04, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * We should do a vote this: delete every political insanity category, keep three main ones, or keep all of them. 10:15, 14 March 2022 (UTC)


 * So it's been 10 days since I opened this up for a vote. Before we vaporize the category page, what have we decided about the rest of the categories? G Man (talk) 05:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 * The other AFDs have strong consensus on deleting, but given how messy it is I am not sure. Please see the discussion above, for vote #13 for deleting (Sqrt) for more discussion on this. Andrew5 (talk) 13:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
 * hey guys! since we are debating the fate of the other categories in the other afds, i've already gone ahead and deleted this one. G Man (talk) 03:02, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Christopher undeleted it until Inferno Bot can run it, so the AFD is technically reopened for now (won't make a difference though.) Andrew5 (talk) 12:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Might take some time to purge, but i did clear the category. We can delete it now. Andrew5 (talk) 01:34, 25 March 2022 (UTC)