Talk:Steven Salaita

Interesting Non-Expert Fellow
Y'know, if the guy is a supposed expert on Native American Studies, why the fuck is he commenting on Israel/Palestine as if he's some sort of expert? Native American Studies with a literature emphasis. I agree with this; he sure has a monomaniacal focus. --Castaigne (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * We all know that American natives are actually Israeli Jews. duh. Carpetsmoker (talk) 20:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well yes, how stupid to oppose his hiring for political comments he made about a subject that isn't what he teaches. But he's Palestinian, and Native Americans tend to be VERY supportive of Palestinians. They often see it as the same anti-colonialist fight.
 * And that has nothing to do with this guy, who obviously promotes himself as an expert on Israel/Palestine. No, I see a target for mockery here. (Really, why the fuck would I care that Native Americans support Palestinians in general? And Prussians generally support Bismarck!) --Castaigne (talk) 20:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * There is great academic overlap in his field of study between Native Americans and Palestinians -- they are tutored in indigenous populations vis-a-vis colonialism worldwide. Plus, he's Palestinian, he has a natural interest in that area.---Mona- (talk) 21:01, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * He's American, his mum is (claimed by him) to be born in Nicaragua to Palestinian parents, his father is (claimed to be) Jordan.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 21:05, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It's only a very generic, general overlap. Essentially, it's "Oh look, a people that's been oppressed at some time in history." overlap. With some colonialism thrown in. It's not specific and not particularly relevant because it's too broad of an overlap. And it doesn't matter that he's Palestinian; it still doesn't make him an expert. He's the equivalent of a plumber considering himself an electrician expert. --Castaigne (talk) 21:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * And really, this is fucking funny. Aside from his thesis, it appears he has spent the time since getting his Ph.d never, ever writing anything about Native Americans ever again. Nadda. Zip. And apparently, he's a completely shitty scholar in his chosen field of non-expertise. --Castaigne (talk) 21:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You might want to dial that back a little. He's published articles in his field of expertise, and, don't forget, was considered to be well-published enough and enough of an expert in his field to get a tenure-track job offer from a major American research university at a time when academic jobs in the humanities are highly competitive. Unless you actually know something about the field and are skilled enough to do a simple JSTOR search, don't make the claim you want to make. It's demonstrably false. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 21:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks like he got this job offer on the basis of his popular anti-Zionist/Israel work, like Israel's Dead Soul, which should really be the title of a horror movie. I don't know that a couple of articles from a few academic journals suffice. I mean, if he's such a Native American Studies expert, I'd expect him to have 60-70 such articles from the past decade and at least 2-3 books on the subject. --Castaigne (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Castaigne, before you make a fool of yourself, do some research on why the Palestinian-American Salaita was hired and what fellows in his field think of his work:
 * "At the end of September, UI Associate Chancellor Reginald Alston, an advisor to Chancellor Phyllis Wise on academic and faculty affairs, sent a message to Wise's assistant saying he supported the program's request to give Salaita indefinite tenure with the rank of associate professor. 'The uniqueness of his scholarship on the intersection of American Indian, Palestinian, and American Palestinian experiences presents a rare opportunity to add an esoteric perspective on indigeneity to our cultural studies programs on campus,' Alston wrote. 'His presence would elevate (American Indian Studies) internationally and convey Illinois' commitment to maintaining a leading academic program on the historical and sociopolitical intricacies of American Indian culture.'"---Mona- (talk) 21:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I really don't care what other people's opinions of him are. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. --Castaigne (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Those are not mere "onions." They constitute the assessment of the academic experts who are qualified to undertake said assessments. It is part of their job requirements to do that and to do it competently.---Mona- (talk) 22:36, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well onions, they are not. What they are has - I think - been succinctly stated by Castaigne. And I would really like to see a cheap B-horror movie with a title like Israel's Dead Soul.... sounds like it would be even more fun thaen the Zombie sheep in that one Kiwi flick... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

An interesting fact about Native Americans
There has been much talk about the oppression of Native Americans, which is certainly a historic reality that has very real consequences to this day. However, if you ask Native Americans, you might get a surprisingly more complex image (stupid reality, always rejecting simplicity). For one, Native Americans are constantly over-represented in the US military. So there seems to be a very strong current within Native American identity today that strongly identifies in a positive way with the state USA and its symbols, including its armed forces. As Israel has a general compulsory military service, Israeli Arabs are of course under-represented among the military personnel, but nonetheless many citizens of Israel that aren't Jews still fight and die for Israel - voluntarily. Which of course flies in the face of many of the tall tales Hamas likes to tell its followers. The fact that Salaita is unable to see such complexity might indicate that his knowledge of the modern experience of Israeli Arabs is even more limited thaen his knowledge of what it means to be a Native American today. But that is just an aside. I have not read any of his writings on his supposed field of expertise, maybe he has some stopped clock moments in it... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Suing your way back into in a job?
That'll do his career in that joint much good.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 12:30, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * What?---Mona- (talk) 15:59, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I never understand why people try that, even if it works going back like that isn't a viable option. -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 16:11, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Steven Salaita did not "sue himself back into a job". Rather, he received a settlement. This is very clear if you actually read the article.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 16:21, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Close enough.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 16:37, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * This was not remotely just "any job." There were several enormously important principles to be (successfully) upheld, and they largely were. Indeed, it remains to be seen whether the academic community that was outraged over the university's violations of: 1. academic freedom; 2. free speech; and 3. faculty self-governance; will lift the sanctions on UIUC. The university has been extensively boycotted by prominent academics refusing to speak there. This may continue. Some fear the settlement means the principles violated by UIUC re: Salaita now simply carry a high price tag, but a price tag nevertheless.---Mona- (talk) 16:28, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * So a job with politics attached (if he wouldn't have the political opinions he had, no-one of these eggheads would've given a fuck about some two-bit prof getting booted for shitposting).--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 16:37, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, many of the boycotting academics either are Zionist themselves, or not especially interested in the I/P issue. It is precisely that the firing was about a professor's politics that rang the alarm bell for so many. Moreover, he's not regarded as "two-bit" in his field.---Mona- (talk) 16:52, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Could you please stop this edit war
I don't even know what this is all about...

Could both sides please say what they want and than shout at each other for two days until finally we get some sort of agreement on something Pizzameister (talk) 21:29, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * There was an edit war? I'm just streamlining some awkward/redundant phrasings left in by Mona. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 21:30, 29 January 42016 AQD (UTC)
 * And Castaigne2 reverted you. And now Aging Hippie has intervened... And next we will have half of recent changes be this... Pizzameister (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * AgingHippie has phrased the passage in question to reflect, exactly, word-for-word, what the provided source says in a clear and unambiguous fashion, and, in the absence of any other sources, this should resolve any issues. Aginghippie does not usually refer to himself in the third person. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 21:42, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Saying "According to X" seems kind of redundant in this context unless you want to imply doubt about the statement's truthfulness. But eh, whatever. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 21:48, 29 January 42016 AQD (UTC)
 * I agree. Find out where the woman's parents was born, and if it is within the borders of Israel proper, write it that way. If it is in the occupied territories, write it that way. Better yet, his grandparents' birthplace is not super relevant, as his activism is related to much more than his family history, so leave it out altogether. Peace. AgingHippie (talk) 21:51, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * According to Wikipedia, his grandmother's home was in /, but the source cited doesn't seem to currently mention that information, so... *shrugs* 142.124.55.236 (talk) 22:03, 29 January 42016 AQD (UTC)
 * Will we? I don't see why that'd be so. I hadn't even noticed Castaigne's edit in between. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 21:43, 29 January 42016 AQD (UTC)


 * Pizzameister chuckled reading AgingHippie's reply Pizzameister (talk) 21:45, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Forty one footnotes
About a guy I never heard of ("random page" is fun). Could you please tell me how and why this man is so relevant? I don't quite get it from the article. Seems to have been one of many social media outrage campaigns that did not change much Laurogeita Hamabost (talk) 16:06, 20 June 2016 (UTC)