Talk:Steven Salaita/Archive1

First name
Is his name Stephen or Steven? If it is Steven, then move the page to that title.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 21:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * By now you have seen the result... Alec Sanderson (talk) 22:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I saw it too late (it was apparently moved while I was editing it >_>).--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 22:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Evphen Stephven Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Mission?
How is this obscure individual within our mission? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:01, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Alleged infringement of academic freedom because of political he took?--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 23:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Isn't that stretching it? I mean even on WP it would probably be questioned whether this individual is noteworthy Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * (СУКА БЛЯДЬ edit conflict) Well, you asked me about the motive Mona may have to write an article about him and here is one, at least according to the stuff written in the article.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 23:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * So what's your argument? That he's not missional or that he's not notable enough? 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:08, 20 August 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * It is not within our mission and as an aside I doubt he would be notable enough for WP... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, then might interest you. I'm also not sure how he's not missional. Both Zionism and anti-semitism are missional, no? 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:14, 20 August 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Damn you English Wikipedia and your overly broad criteria of notability! And as to whether this bloke is missional or not... Well one guy who tweets major BS and gets fired / does not get a job does not and should not be within our scope. Will we soon have an article on some bloke who was fired for posting unkind words about refugees? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I dunno about fired, but a ban for being overly dismissive regarding the deaths of Palestinian civilians might not be too farfetched. ;) 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:26, 20 August 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Who bans whom? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

"obscene carnage"
Okay, now we are down to the point where single words become contentious... Should we call what happened in the latest Gaza-war "obscene carnage" in my humble opinion there is no reason for that other than to make Steven whatshisface look good. And there is imho no justification for that. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree, your repeated whitewashing is a rather pertinent sign that your opinion is not humble. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:41, 20 August 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Yeah, "IMNSHO" is way cooler than "IMHO".--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 23:42, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Some people take imho to mean "in my holy opinion" in which case only popes and cult leaders could use it. But anyway... Back to the issue at hand. What do y'all think about the two words in the headline of this thread? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 23:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Obscene carnage" only happens in guro hentai.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 23:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I know what Hentai is (who over the age of 12 with an internet connection doesn't?) but what is guro? Well, for the sake of my sanity don't tell me. And especially don't link to any examples of it.... Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Guro" is Japanese and derived from the English word "gore" and is a term for media, where it gets... gory.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ 00:04, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I did not want to know that!Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:10, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Then why ask? This is hentai we're talking about after all. Ya know, tentacle rape etc. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 00:13, 21 August 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Gucatala.(word of disgust in parts of the Hispanosphere, sometimes expressed as "guacala") Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 00:19, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's anything wrong with calling something horrific horrific. I'm not sure why you insist on calling something horrific 'just stuff that happens'. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 23:55, 20 August 42015 AQD (UTC)

State-of-the-art weaponry
Here meaning planes older than he is? 20:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Who knows.... But I of course am not allowed to discuss this, lest I be reported to User:-Mona-'s "Journo-Buddies" Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 12:55, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

How about we discuss proposed changes to the article instead of edit-warring over them?
Blacke (talk) 04:09, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Status quo ante of yesterday is fine by me. Even though the article still makes some excuses for that sad excuse for a human being. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 04:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Status quo ante was historically -- totally -- incomplete.---Mona- (talk) 04:17, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Avenger, why do you keep on removing Mona's text about the legal rulings in his favour? It seems factually accurate and important for a complete understanding of the situation. Blacke (talk) 04:19, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Avenger your bias is showing. Cover your shame. Tielec01 (talk) 04:30, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Not only that, the world of American academia is abuzz about the professional deaths in the wake of the ruling and the released emails. It's highly salient information related directly to Salaita and his firing.---Mona- (talk) 04:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It's been my experience that Avenger almost never supports his assertions. It's quite bizarre, actually. As if he doesn't know how to google.---Mona- (talk) 04:34, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I have found it necessary in almost all cases the best response to Mona's drivel is slash and burn replace it all with better written stuff. I don't think Salaita winning a court case is all that relevant, but do we really need to cite it at such a grotesque length as to overwhelm the rest of the article? Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 12:55, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * His court victories are very relevant when the topic of the article is him being fired/not hired for saying things which offended some people, and the court case was about whether that firing/not hiring him on those grounds was legal. (If you think the length of the mention is excessively long, you could always try condensing it a bit instead of deleting it entirely.) Blacke (talk) 12:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Is it our mission to document whether or not he was legally fired? I don't think so. However, it very much is our mission to show him for the antisemitic waste of Oxygen he truly is. And the way Mona portrays his court case in a sympathetic light does our page more harm thaen good. Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 13:21, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "Missionality" is not an excuse for only telling the parts of the story that fit your preferred narrative. Blacke (talk) 13:24, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Your edits are poor Avenger. Get consensus before making your changes. Tielec01 (talk) 13:27, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Constant edit wars seem to float your boat Avenger. It is fucking tiresome. Especially so when an article can no longer be locked by another sysop to keep you away.--TheroadtoWiganPier (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, that's Mona's and Blacke's thing, not his.--Arisboch ☞✍☜☞✉☜ ∈)☼(∋ 14:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, sure. 142.124.55.236 (talk) 17:26, 18 September 42015 AQD (UTC)
 * Again, Avenger (and to some extent Arsiboch) either simply assert with no support, or the offered support does not back up the claim. By contrast, I document and make a great effort to be sure my citations support what I've written.---Mona- (talk) 17:46, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Paravant can u edit?
The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is called tons of things in this article. "UICA" and "UICU." I was about to go in and make it uniformly UIUC when the page got locked.---Mona- (talk) 17:53, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It's back down to Sysop, so you can go find them.--"Paravant" Talk & Contribs 22:04, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I caught them ALL. Thanks.---Mona- (talk) 00:32, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Last graf in "Tweets & context"
That needs a citation, and also needs to make more sense. (What does Hamas' radio messages have to do with anything?) Whoever is behind that paragraph please tend to it or it should be deleted.---Mona- (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Irony section
Those derogatory claims about a living person have been sitting there with no citations for some time now. If no credible sourcing is added I plan to delete it.---Mona- (talk) 17:03, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Mona won't allow any negative facts about her favorite Israel haters to be present in this wiki at all Avengerofthe BoN (talk) 22:02, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If these are real facts, I'm sure you can find cites for them. Blacke (talk) 22:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, Avenger saw this and there's still no citation. ZAP it goes.---Mona- (talk) 17:31, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

If Avenger or anyone else can credibly source those claims I could not object to their going back in.---Mona- (talk) 19:30, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Strange that I was able to find it with simple Googling of "salaita barring israeli academic". Perhaps some people here need to update their search skills. --Castaigne (talk) 20:19, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Here's an article he wrote supporting the boycot, and this one mentions some of the other claims (but IMHO that's a bit of a weak source). By the way, I don't think that boycotting a country for crimes committed by the government of said country is the same as firing an individual for speaking his or her mind.. (so I'm not editing it back it as it was) Carpetsmoker (talk) 19:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Another editors asked for names of the "some" who think Salaita's tweets were "genocidal." I googled with the phrase "Salaita's tweets genocide" and checked the first two pages of results and got nothing. So I removed the claim. ---Mona- (talk) 19:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Also strange, because when I google "salaita tweet anti-semitic", I get this and this. And the latter definitely shows tweets I consider antisemitic. --Castaigne (talk) 20:19, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Castaigne, it's absurd to use a source for that claims that says the opposite, to wit:

"But Lubet’s attacks on Salaita are very weak. It’s true Salaita writes that Hillel is “ethnonationalist” and should “be banned from participating in any form of multicultural celebration.” But that’s very different from proposing any censorship of Hillel (unlike Hillel’s own national policy which bans chapters from participating in any events with anti-Israel people). And although barring Israeli deans from speaking for their institutions at scholarly conferences is a misguided policy of the American Studies Association, since that actually never happens, there is no impact on academic freedom. If this is the worst Lubet can say about Salaita and free expression, then Salaita would be among the strongest supporters of academic freedom in the country, and far better than anyone who favors firing Salaita." That's all true, by the way.---Mona- (talk) 20:26, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think the attacks are weak.
 * I included more than one source in order to provide contrasting opinions for the discerning reader.
 * Congrats! You've caused me to research his expertise on the subject and I found he ISN'T ONE! Instead, he's a fucking shill with a monomaniacal personal agenda against Zionism. I'm going to have a lot of fun rewriting this article. --Castaigne (talk) 20:30, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Have at it, provided you can make it relevant to his firing and the court findings on that topic. It's doubly preposterous he was "fired" for his political comments that are not on topic he was found by the relevant academic department to be well-qualified for. And please do not vandalizemy comments by plastering yours right in the middle of them. ---Mona- (talk) 20:53, 23 September 2015 (UTC)