User talk:HeidelbergKid/Objective Ministries

for your own good, and the good of everybody's mood...
This will not end well. Reconsider the path you have chosen. P-Foster Talk " Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing. " 02:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Say, have you ever thought of creating a HeidelbergKidWiki? Maybe Maratrean can help you with that -- he's an expert at the solo wiki thing. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * He has, actually. TyAnnoy 02:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thought of doing it or actually done it? Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:24, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually done. The link is in the barchives somewheres. TyAnnoy 02:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC)It totally exists. There's a link somewhere here. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 02:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So does it count as a Poe if you make a joke about something but it actually exists? Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Telekinesis, I think. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 02:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh no, I've demonstrated the efficacy of woo! /hands over official skeptic license Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 02:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. It's just, you all think it is a parody, calling Poe's Law. I call Poe's Corollary (a genuine fundamentalist spiel can be so outlandish as to be denounced as a parody as per Poe's law). You want evidence the people on the member page are real. I do some searches and find names. You point out those names don't match the descriptions. Now I think that the names are pseudonyms, which are commonly done by people not wanting association with unpopular or controversial works. I believe in the principles of RationalWiki: that logic and the scientific method are the best way to find information about the universe. I am not a parody. I believe Objective Ministries (hereafter "OM") is real, you believe it is a parody. Neither of us can really support our claims. Since my view is a minority and equally unsupported as yours, I'm simply putting this in my userspace. Also, I have no idea what Foster means when she (I'm tempted to call her a "she", mainly because the only other time I heard "Foster" as a name was for Madame Foster from the Cartoon Network TV show Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. Just correct me if Foster is male. No offense intended.) Agreeing to disagree, is all. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty damn sure P-Foster is a guy. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 03:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC)Look at Foster's userpage, I'm sure that'll clear things up. TyAnnoy 03:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I just realized I never finished my post. I meant to say, ...I have no idea what Foster means when he (sorry) meant when he asked me to "reconsider the path I have chosen". Could someone clear this up? The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you're intending to replace our article with this one, that's a non-starter. P-Foster Talk " Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing. " 03:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not trying to persuade you to switch to my version. Like I said, agree to disagree. I think it's a real fundie, you think it's a poe. Neither of us can really support our claims. So, rather than get in a big argument like before, I'll just keep my article in my space, you can add it into mainspace if you want, and if you don't, I won't complain. Fair? The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We have given proof, you're to stupid to see the difference, --il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

uh huh...
"Who will appear resplendent with white woolly hair. (Portrayals of the post-Tribulation Christ with long straight hair are in error and may cause the ignorant who are left behind during the Rapture to mistakenly seek out and follow rock musicians aligned with the Anti-Christ.)"

s Doctrinal Ignotoclavianism: i.e. that the number of nails used in the Crucifixion is an adiaphoron, and thus not a matter of importance to Faith. Those that would foment doctrinal dispute over this matter (Triclavianists, Quadriclavianists, Duodeclavianists, and others of their ilk) are engaged in heresy and must be either corrected or expunged from the body of the Church lest they lead the ignorant away from the Word of God, and thus Salvation.

http://objectiveministries.org/creation/kangaroo.html

Still no evidence any of the people on theyre website exist as listed

http://objectiveministries.org/gametheory/godlyflag.html

http://objectiveministries.org/gametheory/orbitalcrossalpha.html

http://objectiveministries.org/pastorscorner/#06-19-2003

http://objectiveministries.org/zounds/gaming.html everything in there.

theres ample proof they are parodists--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC) "What few realize is that this modern concept of zombies was created by anti-Christians as propaganda against the real biblical phenomenon of bodily resurrection of the dead. Jesus has promised us that when He returns, He will raise all our dead bodies and make them better than new so that we can live forever bodily in His Kingdom on New Earth. The so-called "zombie apocalypse" common in Secular fiction, where mortal humans must fight off zombie hoards, is really an attempt to scare the unsaved into rejecting their resurrected family and friends after His return"--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:54, 26 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I call Poe's paradox. Yes: the mission to put God on the flag, a cross in space, the gaming site, etc., are pretty nutty, and I disagree wtih OM's POV. It's just that fundies are pretty damn nutty to begin with, and giant projects by fundies to further their agenda don't really surprise me. I've read the thing on Minecraft: it was hilariously nutty (being a devout Minecraft player). Regardless of Notch's true faith or lack thereof, these never stopped fundies from claiming others to be religions they aren't to proceed their agenda. I think the names used are pseudonyms, which is very understandable. Perhaps a slight violation of Occam's razor, but I think that this is just too nutty to be a parody. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 22:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude, the "university" they are (allegedly) affiliated with doesn't even exist. If you can't tell it's a parody, well... Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 22:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I typed "Fellowship University" in quotes into Bing and got 100,000 results. Even on the first page, more than one ministry features, and none of the ones on the front page are Objective Ministries' own webpage. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 00:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, the ol' U of G. Those results are like "InterVarsity Christian Fellowship - University of Oklahoma" - nothing about an actual uni of that name. Try "Victoria University" for comparason. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 00:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, why are you using bing? Peter Monomorium antarcticum 00:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 474,000 results on Google, and not one was for a "Fellowship University". Interesting, given that universities tend to grant fellowships.  But a legitimate school with that name would want to be at the top of the list, doncha think?  Do you even known WHERE this particular university is located (besides the obvious location of NOWHERE)? -- Seth Peck (talk) 00:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably not - google/bing maps certainly wont find it. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 00:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I got used to using Bing, because my school redirects Google and Yahoo images to iBoss' clean image search, which only has 6 pictures per page, while not blocking Bing images; and because my computer for some reason doesn't always load Google or Yahoo properly and Bing is the next option on my search bar. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 01:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's bing that's blocked at my school. Stopped clock and all that. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 02:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It turns out there's an obscure "Fellowship University Bible" in Illinois. See here. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 01:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Kid, this is a non-starter. You're grasping at straws. There is no such thing as "Fellowship University," and OM is satire. Move on. P-Foster Talk " Watched Mad Men thinking it was supposed to be a sit-com. Found it disappointing. " 01:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Compare. Additionally, they appear to be the "University Bible Fellowship", which isn't what you're looking for. Look 'em up on maps. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 02:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Compare that to what? The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Well Yahoo Answers says it's parody so I think it's safe to say it's a parody. 01:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * OM said they don't necessarily agree with all the doctrines of AiG. These words mean they may disagree on a few of the finer points, but overall agree. Creationists tend to argue a lot about the finer points of their bullshit. Kind of like when scientists argue a lot about the finer points of an actual scientific theory, but without adhering to the philosophy of science. Mock science, basically, only they actually believe the mock. OM also says that AiG is "very informative", which indicates OM is sincerely creationist. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 02:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Stephen glass had people answer phones for him and set up websites overnight, does that make him any less of a liar and trust abuser? I can make a website say im an atheist and x atheist is right, does that make me an atheist? il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 02:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, what? The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 02:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Glass_%28reporter%29 il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 02:56, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Kthx. It doesn't make him less of a liar, but remember that Glass was caught in the act. The equivalent in the analogy would be if OM were to have hiding somewhere some secret disclaimer like Landover Baptist has in its ToC. And to answer your latter question, no, it doesn't necessarily, although we'll assume you're an atheist unless you have some hidden disclaimer or are so outlandish (e.g., claiming Ayn Rand is always right) that we think you're probably a strawman. This latter one isn't so good, though, as there's Poe's Paradox/Corollary and our intuition and what we see as absurd are not valid guides, as Mr. Darwin points out in the context of the infamous eye quote. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me get this straight...
HeidelbergKid actually thought Objective Ministries was for real? Ha ha ha ha, that is classic. It is a well done parody, it takes you in for more than a minute, but the kid corner is a dead give away. -  π    02:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * He still does, and has for a little while now... despiute being shown proof to the contrary. He insists the people and college is real--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 02:30, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I think a pseudonym for the people is plausible, and shown you an actual Fellowship University Ministry exists and is obscure. I explained your "evidence" is flawed on the basis of Poe's Corollary and Paradox, and pointed out that Project Pterosaur collects money, so if it wasn't real, it would be a scam and would be shut down by the government. With the kids section, I'm still not seeing that give it away. I'm seeing nutjob trying to indoctrine children with cartoon characters, pretty colors, and Comic Sans. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 02:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Their parodies probably fool the more ignorant people among their readership, but many of the posts there rely quite heavily on readers' not knowing too much of the underlying theory behind fundamentalism. 02:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There really isn't that much theory behind fundamentalism. Just "assume the Bible is inerrant and if something seems to contradict the Bible, it's automatically wrong". The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I rest my case. 04:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There is a method to the madness of fundies, HK. What you just gave is a gross mischaracterisation. Peter Monomorium antarcticum 03:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * -is a fundy and doesnt think like that---il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

O-kay, what is this method? Is this one those hidden rules, or what? :S The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * One can start with a general outline of Calvinist theology, specifically total depravity and the regulative principle of worship, which are the primary motivating factors behind fundamentalists' going ape at any sign of dissent. The rules are not "hidden," but it helps to know them. 04:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Or this Wikipedia page. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 04:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I showed it to my parents
I showed it to my parents, who are fundamentalist christians and they called it on being fake. Ontop of all the stuff we showed you, claiming "poes law!" isnt a good enough excuse to save you're ass on this--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 02:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Meet Poe's Paradox. Fundies can mistake other fundies for poes. As the Poe article points out, this happens a lot on CP. Also, you're the ones claiming this is a poe. I think it's real, and I'm showing that Poe's Law isn't infallible and applies to its reverse, too. The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * everybody BUT YOU is claiming its a fake. Ontop of all the stuff we showed you, claiming "poes law!" isnt a good enough excuse to save you're ass on this.--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No, I'm saying "yeah, that's pretty outlandish, but just because something seems absurd doesn't mean it's not serious or true", and also citing Poe's Corollary/Paradox to explain that Poe's Law has some problems and poes and genuine fundies are easily mistaken. It's also "save your ass on this", not "save you're ass on this". The Heidelberg Kid (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ... Arguing with you is like arguing with Rob--il&#39;Dictator Mikal (talk) 03:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Then stop. He said he's not interested in replacing the mainspace article with his. 04:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)