Talk:Boston Marathon bombing

Family Guy
This is being circulated by conspiracy theorists. I'm guessing it's a splice-job, since he's inexplicably wearing a fez in Boston. Balaam (talk) 09:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Put it in (it's wacky/nutty) --Seth Peck (talk) 16:46, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's been taken down now; interestingly, the title indicates it's a fake (presumably it didn't originally). Here's the message I get if I follow that link: "FAKE: Family Guy Boston Bom..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc. --Editor374 (talk) 05:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's some more info - the clips were from the same episode (which has been pulled by Fox) but occurred in unrelated storylines. Fairly obvious, as Balaam points out. --Editor374 (talk) 05:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Film 4 in the UK have also pulled Four Lions as it depicts a Muslim extremist bomb attempt on the London Marathon. Генгис silverbrain.png 07:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

They're Muslim (sort of)
...as Chechens they'll have a Muslim family background.

Most people here thought the far right was responsible.-Albannach (talk) 12:21, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * What the fuck does it mean to be "sort of Muslim"? They were also American citizens, and, to the best of my knowledge, no evidence has emerged that their faith had anything to do with the crimes, nor that the crimes were politically motivated. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 12:27, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Because some people were hasty to play down the Muslim angle. They come from a Muslim culture which has been at war with Russia for a long time. The link hasn't been proven, but is not unlikely. Who taught them how to make those bombs?


 * They may be American citizens but they are about as American as I am. They weren't born or brought up in America, and apparently hated the place and made few American friends according to their own words. I doubt they spoke English fluently either. They're not "homegrown".- Albannach (talk) 15:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Because some people were hasty to play down the Muslim angleWhich is the reasonable thing to do, until a link is established beywen their faith and their crimes. They come from a Muslim culture which has been at war with Russia for a long time. which totally explains why they bombed Boston, I guess? Who taught them how to make those bombs? Time it takes to find instructions on how to make those bombs on the internet? Not very much. They weren't born or brought up in America, Not unusual in a country of immigrants. and apparently hated the place and made few American friends according to their own words. I'm not crazy about the place, and I haven't made very many friends here, yet I have no intentions of bombing anything.  I doubt they spoke English fluently either. Ever walk around New York City? Lots of people in America don't speak English fluently. Should we round them up?  They're not "homegrown".  They lived the bulk of their lives in America, and no reliable evidence has emerged linking them to actors abroad -- or that their acts were political in the first place. Also, you still have not enlightened me as to how one could be "sort of" Muslim. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 16:42, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

They're not proper Americans, they were raised in Dagestan and Kyrgyzstan. They've moved to the USA less than a decade ago. Yes, I have been to Manhattan, and a lot of the people there are not American.

I think what we have here are people bending over backwards to prove they're not foreign, not Muslim, not politically motivated etc and homegrown. But they're not homegrown, they're Chechens, with some curious family history. Despite what some folk like to make out, most immigrants are motivated by economic and career betterment not love of another country. (Or to escape war and famine) Albannach (talk) 18:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * They're not proper Americans? Генгис silverbrain.png 19:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Category error. They aren't American in their outlook, upbringing or birth. I'm not American either so do not have the emotional investment you imply and don't say that because of the American way or any such shite. Timothy McVeigh was American, these guys aren't. Perhaps you are guilty of playing down their obvious non-American background. If I lived in America for ten years, I wouldn't be American myself either. Albannach (talk) 19:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You are so full of shit. First of all, you are the one who is bending over backwards to argue that these crimes were political and or religiously inspired in the first place. If you could present a shred of evidence besides your own "logic," I'd love to see it. "American by birth" is a meaningless statement in a country whose national identity is defined in no small part by the "melting pot" model. Maybe the melting pot didn't work for these guys. Maybe they felt alienated from American society. That's not an unreasonable idea. But I don't see what that has to do with Chechen nationalism or Islam. Maybe they weren't politically motivated --maybe they were just violent psychopaths. I will make no assertions one way or the other in the absence of solid evidence. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 20:50, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

If a man kills his wife's lover, Occam's razor suggests that he discovered the affair, and that is what one looks at first. Their background - and their age - are the most obvious leads here. They might be random bombers, but most such people like Breivik, or the Sandy Hook shooter have some motive.

By the way, my own first suspicion was that white supremacists or gun nuts not Muslims.

They're not American. They only lived in your cuntry for a few years. (Americans think a decade is a long time, it isn't) You say they're American, to try and avoid looking xenophobic by a kind of naive idealism which suggests rapid assimilation in all cases. Unfortunately, they are foreign and are Muslim, and haven't been in your country very long.

What their motives and training are, is unclear, but eliminate the probable first.-Albannach (talk) 21:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So at what point do they become "American" enough for you to consider them Americans? Is there a definite anniversary where they get their American card or does it develop in them over a period of several weeks at the end of which they wake up and suddenly feel the urge to eat apple pie and think of Muslims as terrorists? Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 21:31, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ayn Rand tried desperately hard to be American, yet I doubt she ever truly was so. She was a product more of Russia than America til her death. (And she was too self-conscious about it) Nationality can't just be changed like a set of underwear. The only people who change it easily are small children. I suspect it's a long process for adults... which doesn't involve isolation and these brothers were nowhere near it by their own admission.Albannach (talk) 21:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Half of my kids were born in here in Massachusetts, and, depending on whose opinion you get and where from, they are not native New Englanders. "If the cat crawled into the oven and had kittens, you wouldn't call them muffins." is how some old-line Yankees put such things. I suppose I could get used to living in Cambridge or Somerville, but I'm glad I don't have to, gladder still my kids didn't have to. There is a strong component of "if you aren't from here, you should go back where you came from" in the snottier parts of the local psyche. Of course that doesn't excuse dipshit losers bombing a civilian crowd. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 21:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * EC WTF does Ayn Rand have to do with anything? Your idea of nationality being determinitive of individual character and action is disgusting. That said, the fact that the two suspects came to America as children fits in well with that part of your "analysis" (...such as it is). Look, kid, why don't you come back with some evidence for your assertions. Because arguing with someone who's just pulling out of his ass on the fly isn't very productive. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 21:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * "just pulling out of his ass on the fly" - Is that what you mean by eighth grade? We never get to learn such sophisticated metaphors here. -Albannach (talk) 13:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Other than saying fuck a lot and getting angry, you haven't proven anything other than an unknown motive. Albannach (talk) 22:06, 21 April 2013 (UTC) ps I said SMALL children. They weren't.
 * That's exactly my point. We do not know anything about the motives behind their crimes, and until we do, tying them to a particular religion, nationality, or immigrant status says way more about the prejudices of the person making those links (and his/her views on what it means to be "proper Americans" than it does about the crimes. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 22:16, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * [ec]Wouldn't matter if they came here as zygotes, or gametes in their separate parents, and got born here. The richly diverse patchwork that is Boston-area "culture" has some prominent xenophobic elements. Paradoxical and retahded, but it is what it is, and not always welcoming and accepting. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 22:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * My mate went on holiday to Boston for a few weeks, and understands Bostonian fluently. He had an American girlfriend, and loves baseball and CSI. Obviously, it's disgusting not to consider him American, even though he's spent most of his life in Scotland, and doesn't consider himself American.Albannach (talk) 22:33, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Och, aye, Scot might be a felicitous ethnicity for getting along in Beantown and its environs. Thicken up the accent, and discover yourself to be a babe magnet. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 22:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

"Your idea of nationality being determinitive of individual character and action is disgusting."

Other than overcompensating for your own latent xenophobia by desperately claiming them as true blue Americans (which they're not), you've misunderstood this thread. I would be extremely surprised if there was no link with their background. If you were to plant a bomb, it would be logical to look at your views on religion as a factor.

I'd like to see you spend ten years in Chechnya, and see you shake off your own background and become Chechen.

Obviously, background has absolutely nothing to do with attitudes, and you would fit neatly into a deeply rooted Muslim tribal community, after such a long time.Albannach (talk) 22:22, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * (EC) The idea I was trying to get at was that in a patchwork country with so many sectional interests and various heritages stitched together that trying to say whether or not someone is truly "American" or has an "American" outlook is silly and pointless. However, I would agree with Mr. Cogswell that the xenophobic nativism prevalent in this country would make it a rather unpleasant experience for people who immigrate here. That being said, that's hardly a reason to turn to terrorism, nor is the arduous process of assimilation. At the moment we know they were Muslim, immigrated here at a young and impressionable age, and at least the younger seems to have assimilated quite well. Trying to say which, if any, of these factors led to the attacks is pure speculation at this point, so why don't we wait for more information to come out. Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 22:34, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Show me some evidence, and not just conjecture, and I'll consider it. And show me where I claim them to be "true blue Americans." Was it somewhere around the time where I wrote "Maybe the melting pot didn't work for these guys. Maybe they felt alienated from American society. That's not an unreasonable idea," perhaps? That said, the vast majority of people who come to America don't set off bombs, so I think that it's safe to argue that it is possible to immigrate to America and find a way to adapt to some degree. @ Sprockett: So New Englanders can be insular. I've heard that. Why aren't bombs going off all the time, then? If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 22:30, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Just saying the melting pot is a lot more complicated than can be adequately treated in a wiki talk page. We don't know that their ethnic identity and family life didn't have anything to do with their choices. If 1940's era assault weapons (M1 carbines) were available through mail order before 1968, how come we didn't have mass school shootings then? There's a sequitur for ya. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 22:36, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This is all just groping around in the dark. Maybe we should blame video games or Hollywood values.  22:37, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Or drugs apparently... Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 22:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Absence of classroom prayer? 22:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Fluoride in the city water supply. That's got to be it. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 22:58, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the chemtrails. 23:00, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think we're forgetting the obvious Captain Swing (bringer of nachos) 23:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

They had American citizenship, but I don't know whether that was convenience or something they desired sincerely. I am not convinced they self-identified as American and this is the key point here.

One point not mentioned is their overly macho father... I'd factor him in too, like the mother in Sandy Hook.

Anyway, truth will out. I hope.Albannach (talk) 22:43, 21 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I hope so; it's got to be better than this. A lot of immigrants sincerely desire American citizenship; why speculate whether these guys did or not when we basically don't know one way or another?  I am not convinced whether they self-identified as American or didn't, but why assume that this is the key point when we don't know that this was nationally or culturally motivated?  22:48, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

FSTDT
The various looney responses have started appearing at FSTDT. Here's one blaming the bombings on abortion, rap music, gay marriage and "Blacks in all kinds of leadership positions". Balaam (talk) 07:28, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Checklist
Aside from the above discussion, we probably need the following if and when it comes in:


 * Any organisational affiliation/help if any
 * Religious motive if any
 * Political motive if any
 * Psych profile
 * Where they learnt their skills
 * Family influences

Albannach (talk) 13:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Captain Obvious. You apparently excelled during your time at the academy. If the thunder don't get you/Then the lightning will. 13:36, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Captain Obvious" - it would be bad enough if you were just being rude, but you're not even particularly skilled at that. Try and put more effort into your insults, and steer clear of sarcasm, because you obviously don't know how to use it. (Wasn't very witty was it? But what do you expect from people who require so called "Poe's Law" to protect them from their own literalism.) Unskilled and weak at best. -Albannach (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * High horses should be tied in the next stable. The roof of this one is a bit low.--ZooGuard (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not the roof that's low, it's the bar. And Capt. Obvious can take a running jump over it, fuckity fuck.-Albannach (talk) 16:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Beyond sub-sarcasm, there is a lot of talk of radical Islam, particularly with Tamerlan. The mother is said to have fled the USA after a theft accusation, and the father's a brute. Lovely people.23:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Guy that was falsely accused is now dead
Body identified as the student falsely implicated in Boston bombing. However, there is no word as to whether he died before or after the accusations, so this may not be directly relevant. - VOX  HUMANA  01:15, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey, IRRATIONAL WIKI!

 * I'll leave this here for you guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuJs54l4-zM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwVn0rJchgw

Refute THIS, RATIONAL Wiki!--174.25.18.37 (talk) 02:33, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

The flag.
Why doesn't the flag move in the bombing footage?--Godonaldgo1 (talk) 07:09, 3 May 2017 (UTC)