RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive31

Portals
Does anyone else think that we should have some portals so that we can focus our various refutations? I was thinking along the lines of 'Refutation of Creationism', 'New-age woo', 'Medical woo', 'Pseudo-history and conspiracy theories'. 17:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Good quote
I just watched The boy in striped pyjamas and there was a quote from a scene where the furnaces at the concentration camp are burning, and a nazi soldier says to the main character's mother "They smell even worse when they burn, don't they?". I thought this was a massively disturbing, but very accurate opinion of the anti-semites at the time and thought it would be perfect on one of the nazi pages here to show the extreme disregard for life. However, I understand it's a very over the top quote and was wondering what everyone's opinion here was on adding it? Would it bring the tone down or would it fit in with the point we're trying to make against the ideas of fascism? 21:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If it were historically sourced, I could see it, maybe. If it came out of a writer's pen a half-century after the fact, less so. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 21:53, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I doubt it's a direct quote, but still a good quote. Consider the quotes we use from people such as Twain and Wilde? 21:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are we using Twain and Wilde writing about the world they live in, or are we using Twain and Wilde writing about a world that they are imagining? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 21:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? You think the holocaust didn't happen? There are laws against that you know 22:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Holograms aren't real, you know. 22:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

"A real hologram! I mean, not real, but almost a real hologram." -Frank Zappa, "Bobby Brown Goes Down." YCDTOSA, Vol. 3. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

*vomits*
I was browsing the AIG website, when I came upon the most massive goldmine of stupid I've ever seen. It's their Creationwise comic series. A sample of the cartoons is the ubiquitous "Evolution leads to school shootings" line.

Please to comment. -- 22:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This relies on the argument that, "If there are no moral absolutes, why should one not carry out a school shooting?" There is, however, also the argument: "If there are no moral absolutes, why should one carry out a school shooting?" 22:16, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What the hell is the message of this cartoon? As far as I can tell it is, if you want your faith to survive ignore the millions of years an accounted for by a literal reading of the bible. 22:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is an anti-intelligent-design one. 22:57, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In this one, it almost seems as though they are arguing for the atheist side. 23:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The answer to this question is "For the same reason," fellows... 23:12, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The After Eden cartoons are worse. 23:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) After Eden sounds like it is written for small children. 23:12, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fucking hell. This is why I distance myself from the YEC Christians. ENorman (talk) 23:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's along the lines of "Believe in Creationism, or Cthulhu will eat you AND your Bible." Just a guess, as Stupid isn't my native language, and I may have missed something. --Gulik (talk) 01:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

(UI)This is why the series is a goldmine -- when logical fallacy becomes the argument, you know something is up. 01:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Holy Fuckin' Asscrackers!. Still perfer Jack Chick's works. Like the hellfire and controversy. Are these guys trying to be funny?--Tabris (talk) 01:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow..... This may be the first time I've ever been threatened by a comic strip. 06:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually can't say it's the first time for me. It's still bizarre. --Kels (talk) 04:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's not scary at all... 09:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've just noticed, both this and After Eden are both Dan Lietha. Which explains the inconsistent POV and Uber Fail use of irony as humour. I swear, this guy must be a closet antitheist working to make creationists look (more) idiotic. 09:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The ones that try to be funny really, really aren't. Nothing to do with the message they're propagating, they're just terrible jokes. Like in Family Guy:
 * Caveman #1: Why is Juan so happy?
 * Caveman #2: I think he finally figured himself out.
 * Caveman #1: Well I guess it takes Juan to know Juan!
 * Stewie: Ahahahahahaha! 12:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Those strips are incredibly lame, some of them seem be making the opposite point to what one knows they are trying make. They are on par with VenomFag's "Hey, I'm so damned smart I can irrefutably disprove atheism and evolution in just three words". Perhaps we could do a side-by-side on them? 14:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are 56 of those CreationWise if you want to do it the page should be manageable. I can either write a script this evening to grab them all, or alternative if someone has enough spare time they can grab them one-by-one and stick them in a category called CreationWise cartoons or something. Just shove the fair use for reason as for commentary and parody of the piece. 01:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Here, I made my very own version. AiG needs to give me a job.


 * -- 13:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * AiG should certainly employ you and I'd happily sign the petition for them to let you work for them. 15:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, which one of you guys is David Wong?ENorman (talk) 16:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * My god, I've had an epiphany! I understand what this cartoon means!  I was thinking about it all day, when I realized that what it is saying is that if you are a biblical YEC, and you just take a peek at the arguments for an old earth, you'll end up disbielieving Genesis entirely!  It makes perfect sense, but id dosen't make sense at all when you view it in the context of a creationist writing the strip.  But if we presume that the writer is a closet evolutionist, then obvi...   agggggggggggggggggggg...

EVIL STUPID BASTARD EVOLUTIONISTS! I AM 6000 YEARS OLD PLUS SATAN, AND ORIGINAL SIN CORRUPTED PERFECT LIFE! DARWIN AND OBAMA- TOOLS OF SATAN PERVERTING INFALLIBLE BIBLE, BUT DON'T KNOW ETERNAL MILLION TIME-GOD! uffffffffffff...  Now I know what Gene Ray must feel like everyday! -- 02:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

In your dreams
So I clicked on a Google ad and got this page. Breaking free from my daydreams of a new svelte Mrs. Khant I took the original before-and-after image and scaled the facial features of the "before" to match the "after" then horizontally scaled the before to match the shoulder width of the after (it needed a couple of iterations). Not such dramatic an improvement after all. :( 19:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this by any chance the massively fucking annoying "One rule to a flat stomach: Obey" adverts? Considering they're as plastered everywhere as the Evony adverts I always assumed it was a bit dodgy. 21:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As someone dear to me once said, "fapfapfap.. schlickschlick.. queef." 21:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * lolwut? 22:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are some interesting tricks with these things. Camera angles and poses are obvious, before pictures are always miserable, untouched by photoshop and frontal, wheras the after pictures are posed correctly, done by a pro or semi-pro photographer and airbrushed. The most interesting trick however is that with before/after pictures - especially when it's about toning or muscle building - they take "after" pictures of athletes or body-builders at their peak, this much is obvious. The "before" pictures are of the same person but during an injury (or in the case of women, quite often pregnancy) where they can't train, so would quickly lapse into an untoned state. Thus you get a quite impressive before/after effect. 11:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone may want to help me read/parse this
In order to get a job at AiG the religious entity, you need a "Confirmation of your agreement with the AiG Statement of Faith".

There are several parts of such statement of Faith that I found troubling (only from a priori logical aspect, not related to anything scientific or the contents in the Bible):


 * If Bible is the word of God, Wouldn't God be the Supreme Authority in everything the Bible teaches?
 * If the "assertions are factually true in all the original autographs", why aren't we seeing these people citing Hebrew?

Is it just me or do these guys fail even at theology? 00:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Then why are they interpreting the scriptures for you, in other points in the statement?
 * And since you have to agree to the rest of the statement to get the job, Their interpretation is obviously more important than the self-interpretation of the Bible.
 * This is what saner Christians call bibliolatry, effective worship of the Bible in the place of YHVH. 01:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Point 3.12 is quite superfluous; they must have a 🇰🇪 on their board. Also point 2.1, "66 books"? What happened to the deuterocanon? 02:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Love this: "By definition, no apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information." Picture of small child with fingers in ears "Can't hear you! Can't hear you!" 12:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's pretty much what it amounts to. But you can't expect AiG to play by the Rules. 12:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't that just aSoK's standard position as well? 12:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * aSK is presuppositionalist rather than evidentialist, which presumably means they are not averse to retreating to Last Thursdayism if pushed hard enough. 04:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

What the fuck is Evony?
Genghis mentioned this above at it has been bothering me for awhile. What is it? I first saw the ads on wikia but they are every where now. At first the girls had a sort of looked medieval like, which with the "my lord" crap made some sense so I just ignored it; the last one I saw on Fox News just had some chick in nothing but her knickers (which were a modern style), which does not seem to be related to anything at all (although typical of fox). What is it actually advertising? 01:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A computer game. 02:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. This reminds me of an ad being discussed on The Gruen Transfer, for a website. They had several marching bands spell out the sites name and then set wolves on them. Apparently every time the ad ran they got 10,000 hits to the website but after a year had sold nothing. 02:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hopefully they put some Google ads on the site, so they actually got some money out of it. 02:18, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if that is doable, advertise to attract people to a website just to raise money through website advertising. I doubt it unless the cost per person of attracting someone to the website was less than Google paid per ad. 02:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My brother claims to have positive cash flow from an approach a bit like that. He does other work, but he has things he's written (enviro stuff I guess) on his site, and he runs ads, and tries to get the ones that pay best and work best.  He then runs ads for his site to bring in traffic in place that don't cost a lot (I guess).  02:37, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't believe that! - that there's another Powell that is. 06:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Welshability does not automatically mean poopfullofnessity! 06:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That explains a lot. 06:24, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Their ad campaign got a lot of bad press. Believe it or not, the last one is genuine... what the fuck were they thinking? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001286.html Although it did produce this gem: http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Plants-Vs-Zombies-Evony-parody.jpg 10:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That is interesting, one of the cites given on WP also compared it to idiocracy. 11:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Evony ad drinking game? Anyone up for it? 12:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1 drink for an ad, 2 if it has excessive boobage, 3 if they are in their underwear, 4 if they are not, kind of thing? 12:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. Something like that. They're so ubiquitous on the net, you'd be sozzled pretty quick... 12:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Avoid Wikia if you count every page as a new ad. 12:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Kindle
"The device software will provide Amazon with data about your device and its interaction with the service ... and information related to the content on your device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the device). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make in your device are backed up through the service." From the terms of service. Altogether now: "nineteen eighty four"! 13:31, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why I'm gonna wait for a decent sony reader or Barnes & Noble's Plastic Logic reader. ENorman (talk) 18:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I remember picking up a free internet access CD from Barnes & Noble in New Orleans (in the days of dial-up only and it was heavily laden with ads) and finding 100 e-book classics included for free. I've still got them all on my network storage. 19:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Down
Has the site just been down? I've not been able to load it for about an hour. 14:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Trent probably switched the toaster and the kettle on at the same time. 15:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Likewise. I reverted to using the internet for it's primary purpose in that time. 15:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Porn? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 15:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Friendface stalking? 15:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Porn is probably the cause of this. 15:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not porn, you sex crazed maniacs! I was looking at the Homebase website for new paint for my fence... jeez... 16:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Homebase? Are you made of money? 16:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Flesh, organs and farts. 16:26, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Fox news...haha
http://interactive.foxnews.com/livestream/live.html?chanId=1

A bunch of (presumably) fox employees standing around behind the camera talking about the news business like a bunch of sailors...pretty funny. &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 16:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Christ...this shit is gold...I wish I was recording...They're talking about shooting up Palin's dress and how fucked up everyone at the RNC was... OMG... &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 16:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahh...it's over. They're switching to 'Obamacare' coverage. My sides hurt from laughing. &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 17:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What everyone wants to know - thong or French knickers? 18:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

For another look at the news
Uncle Jay breaks it down for all those small minds out there. It's interesting, to say the least, and at least he isn't shouting at you like a FOX pundit. -- 74.204.141.77 17:24, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Crass Commercialism
So, here's a thought: If Andy charges for his "homeschool" "class", and said students must use CP for their classwork (and/or Andy uses CP to develop material for said class), does that make CP a "commercial" website? I'm thinking here in terms of copyright consequences.--WJThomas (talk) 22:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If it has to be done through CP, then I would suppose so. the trouble is are there freeriders who are on CP who is signed up and didn't pay?   00:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * From what we've seen, CP is not a required activity for the paying (in person) students. Note how some of their homeworks and exams never showed up on CP.  01:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And why are we discussing this here instead of wigo cp talk? Oh, by the way, just because money changes hands doesn't make a website "commercial" - non-profits use money too.  01:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

PHPBB
Is anyone else fed up of having to babysit installations if PHPBB? You may as well just install a root access command page on your server with a large heading saying "Hey spammers! Who wants to fuck me in the asshole?". I just had to clear down ANOTHER massive set of spam posts after noticing that the top search terms for my website were "anal gang rape" and "gay anal sex". Bear in mind this is an installation with three antispammer modules installed as well as a manual hack I did to stop bot signups. I think I'm just going to tear down the thing and leave a message saying "Sorry, I'm not supporting this application anymore because I'm fed up with dealing with spammer scum". 10:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I regularly monitor RW's inactive forums and typically delete 3 or 4 Chinese spam accounts for fake handbags & trainers, Runescape or World of Warcraft each day. 10:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The scary thing is that the spammers somehow get enough customers from this to think it's worth the effort. --Gulik (talk) 05:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's usually more to boost their pagerank, so if I'm searching for v1aagiara online, then I'm sure to find their site first. 15:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hedgehog
It appeared from nowhere and it vanished. 16:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Incredibly cute. I had a pet hedgehog when I was high school (named Sonic, of course), but I had to sell him when I moved to Louisiana because they're fucking illegal here. I still have no idea what could've possibly caused the state to outlaw hedgehogs.-- 17:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)




 * Because the hedgehog can never be buggered at all. Louisiana is all about buggering animals. -- 17:53, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * link 18:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Last week Mrs. K decided to reorganise our wood pile and found a litter of blind baby hedgehogs hidden underneath. So she reinstated the stacked logs. "Did you take a picture?", "No, I didn't want to disturb them". Mrs. Tiggywinkle has since moved them. I had several pet desert hedgehogs (much larger ears) while working in Syria and Sandy Arabia and they were all called Spiny Norman. 18:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Woah, weird coincidence. I just went outside and found this little fellow exploring the leftover catfood:


 * Crappy phone pic, but it was all I had handy. I wonder if toast is my fight club style alter ego, whenever I think I'm sleeping I actually change sexes and move half a dozen counties north. -- 20:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You've got sexes? Can't be me: I've only got the one And I seem to always have it. (Does your recent Mumbles pub crawl mean that you're Welsh?) Oh & here's your piccy enhanced a tad.  21:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really Welsh, I'm Welsh once removed and used to live in Swansea. Haven't done the mile in something like 5 years now I guess. -- 21:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I was going to ask you about that as I just spent a week staying near Mumbles in early June. I don't know if anyone watches Coast on BBC2 but they were filming along the south side of the Gower while we were there. I guess it will be on the next series.  21:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just out of (a total lack of) interest: the hedgehog came back & finished the food. Didn't snap it 'cause I didn't want to disturb it with flash.  21:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Why was the cat food outside?  21:59, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Because cats are wild and free spirits and should not be caged up inside human dwellings. 22:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's an easy way to have a wild and free spirit with a shorter lifespan. --Kels (talk) 05:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That old Terry Schiavo argument, again. 06:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My cats don't die of old age. But they are very - very - happy until they fight the badger... Gawd I miss Bobo... purry fucker...  05:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Our last moggy was 17 when we had her put down because of a rampant tumour. I think that's pretty good going for a cat. 06:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but some cats just love to kill, and it makes them so happy. Until they come up against a meaner, sharper animal.  It might suck, but I think that's one way for a hero to go down.  Tooth and claw and all that.  06:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All cats are hunters by nature. While some people complain that they decimate bird populations I look upon it as being an important factor in evolution. The only time we kept Dee in the house was when she fractured a rib after an altercation with a buck rabbit. Since her demise we have been over-run with rabbits who have virtually destroyed this year's veggie crop. The only problem is that keeping animals is such a responsibility (even though the cats had their own heated room to come and go as they please they still needed watering and feeding) and they always hate going into a cattery. 07:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As Kipling so accurately put it 'I am the cat that walks alone, and all places are alike to me.' Bob Soles (talk) 13:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Going viral (can you see her bum?)
My friend is trying to get a scholarship. Could you guys vote on her picture some time in the next 20 hours please? I'll give goat in return. ENorman (talk) 19:53, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Have voted. How you supply goat?--BobNot Jim 20:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, you'll be receiving an email from a Nigerian goat-supply company shortly, so just send them the $500 {£350) shipping and handling fee, plus a valid mailing address, and your goat should arrive in 6-10 business days.  -- 21:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's slightly suspicious actually. I've sent cash to Nigerian goat supply companies before and they almost never come through.--BobNot Jim 21:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Voted. Goat better be washed after Bob's turn.-- 21:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Voted. Do you give good goat? 21:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm busy converting a goat to digital format. It's amazing what you can fit on floppy disks. ENorman (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I was expecting analogue goat. Please to not disappoint.--BobNot Jim 21:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. How would you keep up with the reproduction of goats?  Goat pregnancy takes months, as far as I know.   00:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

(undent) Gathering goat as we speak. She's at 11th right now, needs to get at least third place to get money. You can vote multiple times. The other people are viral spamming, let's do the same! ENorman (talk) 05:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I voted for two goats, to be delivered as promised. By the way, I can't see her bum.  06:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it work if I delete my cookies after each vote? Or does it only count once per every 8 hours? 06:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yo, you might want to read the contest details. You only have to be in the top 150 photos, after which a panel of judges decides. 11th place is as good as first if she wants to win the sweet, sweet cash. -- 08:23, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * None of those photos are as good as this one. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 08:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

As Guest #105557427_ 306304336 said: "Who cropped out the camel toe??!!!!" 09:05, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Voted. I too require goat. 18:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Server
Why is your server always busting? Do all private servers do that? Tarantallegra (talk) 23:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We have a server cluster (well two servers any way). Judging by the fact Capturebot is not running the bot server might be having a few problems, I assume Trent may have to periodically turn on and off, or play with, the main server while he fixes it. 00:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah... Sometimes it doesn't respond for quite a while, like at least 1/2 hr. Sometimes just for a min or 2. Tarantallegra (talk) 00:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would argue that I am providing roughly 90-95 percent up time, sometimes there are longer periods were the site is down for one reason or another, but those are rare, and only under the most disastrous of circumstances do they last longer than an hour or so. Keep in mind I am the only tech support person for issues involving network structure and settings. While I get amazing back up support by users like Pi, Nx, and Jeeves, if there is a network, software or hardware problem that disrupts internet access to the server there is just me. tmtoulouse 00:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I was just wondering, didn't mean to say you're doing a bad job. Better you than me.  Just not used to that with servers, cause everybody has shared hosting which usually seems to work but I guess you get some benifit from this. Do you really upload more than what shared hosting gives you??? Good job of wiki making if so.  Tarantallegra (talk) 07:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The biggest limitation for shared hosting is not bandwidth but cpu cycles. The amount of processing it takes to handle all the php and mysql requests for the site is fairly substantial. There are also size considerations. The storage needed for just the text of the wiki is right no just over 10 gigabytes. The images are more. Shared hosting worked when we had at most 15-20 people using the site at a given time and less than 500-600 visits a day. As soon as we hit the 25-35 range and the >1000 visits a day we got shut down for using too much processor and memory. At that point we moved to dedicated servers, actually a VPS. But as the site grew we had to keep getting more and more processing and memory. When we reached the point that our hosting was over $100 month I said screw this and set up what we currently have. We now regularly have over 150 people trying to use the site at a time, with 8000-10000 visits a day. We handle it pretty well, a hosting package that could deal with that level of wiki traffic would be several hundred dollars or more a month and if the site grows it just gets more and more expensive. You reach a point where you either have to get commercial backing, limit traffic, or role up your sleeves and do it yourself. tmtoulouse 08:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you do a splendid job Trent. My only concern is that one day you're going to screw up with another of your waterboarding stunts and we'll be left in limbo. 08:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, hats of to you Trent, the (largely) unsung hero of RW. Ace McWickedModel 500 10:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Move over timecube...Look what I found....
what in the hell is this shit. Outstanding stuff. Ace McWickedModel 500 10:05, 12 August 2009 (UTC) I like this "The lion-headed serpent, a Gnostic symbol for the blind and arrogant retard who created this worthless universe." Ace McWickedModel 500 10:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * AoTW lineup?  15:08, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Whew, yeah, maybe... but that would mean having to read it... 19:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Swine flu - the hassidic answer
"We are certain that, thanks to the prayer, the danger is already behind us," Mr Batzri was quoted as saying. So that's all right then Bob Soles (talk) 11:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Do we have a "myth of prayer" article or something along those lines where reliance on prayer has proved detrimental to the eventual outcome? I know there have been a few cases recently where children have ended up dead because of it. I think we should be documenting it somehow. 12:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Best we've got at the moment is Intercessory prayer which talks about the Templeton Foundation study. The results of the study (if I remember correctly) were that prayer had a negative effect on outcome where people knew they were being prayed for.  It is presumed (again from memory) that this was the result of performance anxiety. --BobNot Jim 13:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Not just prayer, there was the homeopath recently who was found guilty of manslaughter for treating their daughter with alt-med rather than real treatment. This sort of thing is documented in WIGO:World but not organised or listed that I'm aware of. It might well be a worthwhile project. 12:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Should there be separate articles for homicide by alternative medicine and homicide by whackjob religion, or one honking article cataloguing all woo related negligent deaths? -- 13:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't see a difference. If I really want to push it, I don't see a difference between these things and premeditated murders or attacks by the deluded/insane who have giant rabbits tell them to do it and get put in mental hospitals because of it. 13:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite as extreme as Armondikov but I basically agree. Whether the belief is in the healing power of pure water, pretty pebbles, or some form of ceiling cat the end result is denying appropriate medical care because of irrational beliefs. Bob Soles (talk) 13:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the difference between premeditated murder and negligent woo-related deaths is the intent. Intent has clearly established legal significance (whether you think it should have such significance is a separate matter). Intent is very hard to prove, however, and I can understand the argument that it shouldn't be relevant. I do think it's a good precedent that those parents were convicted of manslaughter for rejecting medical care for their daughter, as this kind of thing needs to be strongly discouraged. OneForLogic 199.46.199.231 16:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Manslaughter, to me, is a better conviction for woo-related killings. Generally, manslaughter is basically you killed someone, but didn't mean to, like in an auto accident.  Unless those families deliberately kept their kids from medical care to purposly kill them, manslaughter sounds right.   18:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * (tl;dr warning) I agree that it's a great precendent to see charges brought on people who are willfully ignorant of facts and evidence and decide to do things their way - I'm not going to greatly advocate that the law should define it as murder, however. The connection I was trying to make was that in both the cases of murder by the insane and manslaughter by the ignorant, a personal belief has lead to a death. There are thousands of hypthetical and probably hundreds of actual examples where someone who is guilty of murder is actually deluded into thinking they're doing the right thing or that they haven't intentionally killed someone - i.e., when you take it from their perspective, inside their head, they're no more guilty of intentional murder than these woo-sters that we're originally talking about. So, inside their heads, they're doing right - the death is an unwanted by-product - while outside with the benefit of observing them both types can be viewed murder because they are doing something that will cause injury and death. And very willingly too, even though their personal delusisons prevent them from recognising that as a direct consequence. I don't think I'm stretching that connection too far, far certainly and probably further than most people are comfortable with. But anyway, it's just a throwaway, provocative comment, I'm not really demanding this be considered murder in reality, just trying to draw a connection and point out how one form of delusion (which ends in death) is manslaughter, but another delusion (which ends in death) is murder. 19:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

(UI)But murder by the insane gets broken down, generally, into two categories: people who did something because the voices in their head told them to, and those who didn't realize what they did. In the first case, the result is often a jail sentence, usually for murder. In the second (and sometimes the first), the result is usually a mental hospital, which is what should happen for someone who is mentally ill and a danger to themselves and others. 19:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Homebrew
Get the fuck in. The wife and I bottled up my first batch of beer today, and I started off my wine homebrew too (as well as the mexican cerveza I started off the other day). I love that I can make my own dahru for cheap and stuff :) 21:14, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are some off-licences here where you can buy a six pack for about six quid which'd probably be about eight or nine bucks to you yanks. I was in a bowling alley the other night and a bottle of Becks was over 3 quid - about $4.50. How's the beer taste? 21:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dunno yet. It needs to carbonate for a few days and then clear in the fridge for at least a week. Talking of cost, if you factor out the one time setup costs then a pint will cost you about 30p (what's that, 45c?). 21:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Meh, I got impaient and chilled / consumed a bottle only 2 days after bottling. Ended up sinking it because it wasn't carbonated at all. I guess it needs a week or so. I'll be pissed off if I've underprimed it, because flat beer is gross. 21:17, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Flat beer is scotch before it gets distilled. 16:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC) CЯacke ®
 * It looks like it's building up a bit of fizz now. I hate this waiting. It's a bit like when you're a kid, and you're waiting for Christmas for your presents. Except now, I'm waiting to get shitfaced. 09:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

LA Times on science and the "New Atheists."

 * Cut to Debate:Is all religion incompatible with science? at 19:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm totally sick of all this "be nice to to the tards" bullshit. I've been following the debate about Mooney and Kirshenbaum's "Unscientific America" at ScienceBlogs and their blog, and all it has done is remove what little bit of respect I had left for them. I'm sorry, but fairy tales are fairy tales: if people choose to believe that the earth is 6000 years old and a big sky daddy is looking out for them, well fair enough. But if they try to impose their morality/beliefs/bollocks on the rest of society, then it's time to point and laugh Silvermute (talk) 08:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Top ten conservative idiots
Ok Ok, "how did they get it down to ten" and so on, but... this is fun. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting, though I disagree with the inclusion of O'Reilly. He may be a giant blow-hard but he has been far and away more rational than Hannity recently. Ace McWickedModel 500 21:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Beck over O'Reilly any day of the week. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 21:51, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * O'Reilly made the list but somehow Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage and Malkin are left off? I'm no fan of Bill's, but even on his worst day he can't hold a candle to the lunacy these people spew forth every time they speak. Maybe they're all automatically excluded, that would make sense.-- 23:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's a sad day when I say that Bill is one of the more rational talking heads. ENorman (talk) 23:27, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't that list re-written every day? 02:39, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * the page updates every 2 weeks (next update: Aug 24), I think. I wouldn't be suprised if it includes all of those individual at some prior editions.   03:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it updates fairly regularly - here's an old one with Mel Gibson in. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bill, recently, has slowed down a lot from his earlier days. However, I think that's because he actively knows he has a constant parody in the form of the Colbert Report to let him see his own lunacy. However, I don't think there will ever be such a parody for Coulter, Hannity, or Malkin. They are so far out there that it's impossible to touch. -- CodyH (talk) 17:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Of Ken and 'Shops
So I was directed over to this nutcase webpage of people protesting the government's involvement with extraterrestrial aliens. And what do my eyes behold, but the shopped picture of Obama with the cigarette. Webpage is here, but be warned, it's ugly and full of youtube videos of Dr. Paul. On the other hand, does this mean that Ken didn't create this shop in the first place? (If you check out the website they seem like everyday nutcases, but the alien stuff is here) Hactar (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I saw that pic AGES ago--maybe even during the primaries--and I'm sure it wasn't on CP, maybe I'm wrong, but it comes from somewhere else, I believe. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 02:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Exposed as a shoop more than a year ago? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 02:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, sorry, thought it had been implied that 🇰🇪 had made the shop, or at least commissioned it. Hactar (talk) 03:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually over at ASK he pretty much said that he doesn't create any of his pictures. Given his non existent wiki skills I wouldn't expect him to be able to use photoshop. 192.43.227.18 03:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only thing about Ken which is creative is how he links to obscure YouTube videos to make an irrelevant point. Everything else is basically a box of Lego quote-mine blocks assembled with a limited array of stock phrases into a parody of an article. 07:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservative healthcare ignorance
If Stephen Hawking lived in Britain the NHS would have condemned him! EddyP (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This showed up in WIGO:Clogs some time ago. 18:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Editor's Note: This version corrects the original editorial which implied that physicist Stephen Hawking, a professor at the University of Cambridge, did not live in the UK." a backdown. 19:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I overheard this being discussed on the radio when I was in a cafe. It's got around fast. Mind you, it was only being treated as "let's giggle at those silly yanks." Totnesmartin (talk) 19:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Google ads
Wow! Best ever context-sensitive advert! 09:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That remind me of the psychic and other woo ads we use to get. Sorry I tampered with your picture. 10:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of the "Is Obesity Killing YOU?" pamphlets that the Golden Corral buffet had in the free paper rack on the way OUT of the restaurant... The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 18:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Lynddie England is a horrible, horrible person.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8199168.stm Oh. yes she is.] TheoryOfPractice (talk) 14:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "her refusal to accept that she did anything wrong". Well, lets torture and humiliate her for a few months and see if she's cool with it. 14:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course not. [It's not that bad] "if you compare it what the others would do". So remember, as long as your enemy is somewhere doing something somewhat worse to someone, everything is fine. 157.193.206.103 15:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

R.I.P. Les Paul
Apparently the creator of the best damn elektrik geetar ever has, sadly, gone to join the Great, Never-Ending Rock 'n' Party in the sky. --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 17:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 94 years old is a damn good run. Thanks for my GT, Les.-- 17:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And undoubtedly his legacy will live on for another 94! I'd be happy to bet that long after people have forgotten who Micheal Jackson was and can bearly hum a single song of his, the rock of the day will still have a Les Paul at it's core. 18:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget his invention of multi-track recording (that was him, right?)! And the rock of the day in 100 years will probably not only involve Gibson LPs, but probably ones made fifty years ago.  19:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * he was only trying to get his instrument heard by the audience to get more tips, and he changed music forever. Unintended consequences aren't always bad. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, he didn't get as much media coverage as Michael Jackson. But who cares? People will remember him long after MJ is a footnote in time.The Goonie 1 (talk) 01:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Rendition, nekkid pictures and prisoner abuse under Obama's watch.
I'm not saying I totally believe this story--yet. And I'm not making an argument Obama is as bad as Bush. But this story, as well as this one point to the ways in which the horrors of Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and Baggram have their roots in a longer history of American policies which are fundamentally abusive, and make it difficult to simply pin the blame for some very uncomfortable truths on Bush43 and Cheney. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 17:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Americans can be strangely totalitarian if they think they're defending freedom. EddyP (talk) 18:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Which, sadly, they always think is what they are doing, thanks to the Religion of WW2. 20:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

The Living Matrix
Searching around for stuff on quantum biowoo I came across this site for a DVD called The Living Matrix. It's probably another What the Bleep Do We Know? but has anyone else heard about it yet and do we have anyone in the Bournemouth area who might visit the UK premiere on 10th September? 18:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe, I didn't know we had either of those articles... 21:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I've never been to Bournemouth and I'm not going just to see some crap film. Totnesmartin (talk) 20:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Curse you all

 * Cut to Debate:A scientific test of the existence of magic at 22:48, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

WIGO WP
The last two pictures I've added to Wikipedia have been of rubbish bags. Should I be getting out more? Or should I post my rubbish bag song here? Totnesmartin (talk) 19:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * When the Saloon Bar's back alley was inaugurated I went round photographing dingy alleys with rubbish in them (with the intent of heading the page). I was asked what I was doing several times, particularly behind pubs when snapping dumpsters. Unfortunately none were sufficiently disgusting. 19:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC) p.s. No singing please!
 * Keep looking, chuck. 19:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But the Blue Bag song is a thing of beauty and a boon to the world! you don't know what you're missing! Totnesmartin (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Amazing discovery
So I found this page of amazing gadgets and thought most of you would be interested in the incredible Computer Clear. 19:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * FTW! They have a freebie EMF-protector screensaver! 19:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well it's not really a screen saver, it's actually a desktop wallpaper. But what the hell, it still works. My aura is positively radiant this morning! 05:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I particularly like the silent healing CD which contains "over 34,000 different homoeopathic type remedies," - all in 74 minutes of hush. 20:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll nip over to Retford market on Saturday: there's a "magnetic healing stall" there - I'll get some snaps & probably literature. 20:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Makes me embarrassed to be part of the human race.--BobNot Jim 20:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What a gold mine this is. I think my favorite is the water enhancer, which is a mat that you simply set a jug of water on to "make flat water livelier and easier to drink!"-- 20:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorite is the healing blanket. It sells for the low, low price of...

$530!?!?!?!!!???

FOR A BLANKET!!!!! WTF!!! . Oh, and the Food and drink energizer is good too. -- 20:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I rescind my previous favorite, the Geowave cannot be beaten. $1400 for what looks like a piece of scrapped aluminum siding. Also, the comments sections on these products are fantastic. Anywhere that someone says something negative, the next comment is from someone who signs as "university professor" admonishing them.-- 20:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I see some prices are being quoted in USD, mine are all in GBP. I guess they check where your IP is located. 20:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I as well, you must conceed that the Box with switch and two plugs is the most advanced technology invented by man. The cost?  A mere $21000 for your well being and security.  -- 20:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't believe thay haven't upgraded to USB yet. 22:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm working on the QXCI at quantum biofeedback. 20:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you guys sure this site is on the level (well, as level as charlatans can be...)? My Poe-Meter is in the other room and I can hear it overloading from here... Anyway, if they are "for real" it's a gold mine for articles.  22:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Last sentence of the QXCI's quack Miranda Warning: "No claims are made of the system or results." 22:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's another bunch of amazing WTFery - Voice Analysis Hydration System. "VAHS applies the advancement of computer speeds, true scalar wave coil technology and breakthrough software to decode the human voice. The VAHS then locates and identifies the missing tones that make our spoken word true and coherent. These missing tones are played back to the client, restoring cellular memory and clearing any sub-conscious self sabotaging thoughts instantly." - "With the use of 5 inert gases, crystals, water and scalar waves the process is very relaxing non invasive and totally controlled by the client." - "Benefits of Holographic Voice Analysis Sound Session are: Personalized Holographic Structured Water" Really, do we need CP when this stuff is all over the net?  05:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm tempted to buy some of this WTF-ware and disassemble it to see what it actually does do. It's probably just a form slapped together in visual basic in five minutes, then sold to the gullible for 30 quid a pop. A decent living for the amoral, I guess. -- 16:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The high prices are to help you appreciate the wonderfulness of the healing and become less materialistic. These "spiritual" new age types don't half know how to rake it in. Totnesmartin (talk) 20:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Lockerbie
There's something odd happening here. I've been convinced of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi's innocence for years - Private Eye has convinced me that evidence was deliberately suppressed at his trial and that he has been denied appeals since. I'm not going to speculate why this has happened, but there's no doubt that he should have never been convicted at all.

What's weird is that way the people on the two sides of the pond are reacting to the news that he's going to be released on "compassionate grounds". In Britain, the reaction has (generally) been that... well, we knew he was innocent so let the poor bastard go. In JesusLand it's been pure hellfire.

Why? Why is there such a difference? Are Americans really such callous, vengeance-driven bastards? SuspectedReplicant (talk) 21:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The American Public tends to feel that anyone arrested is probably guilty and should rot in prison forever.--WJThomas (talk) 21:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As another devoted Private-Eyer, I have to agree that there's more to his conviction than has crossed the Atlantic. The guy seems to have been stitched up to smooth international relations. 23:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Last night on the BBC World Service they interviewed an American woman who had lost a relative in the bombing and all she could do was foam at the mouth and give an argument that made Miss Teen South Carolina look like a Rhodes scholar. And then they interviewed a British man who had also lost a relative in the bombing and he gave a rational, reasonable argument as to why the guy might not be guilty. A small sample group, but telling. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I saw that interview and it's what motivated me to post. And I'm sorry if my brush was wider than intended: I didn't mean that all Americans are callous, vengeance-driven bastards. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 04:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I tend to find that some people, and in this case the American right have more than their fair share, have a tendancy to see prison and other forms of punishment as revenge and retribution. Hence the kind of attitude where they'd rather an innocent person was punished than a guilty person walks free. All that's important is to find someone to blame. You can see the same effect where people will believe that Iraq was resonsible for demolishing the World Trade Center, or some of the ones who watched the boradcast of Timothy McVeigh's execution and were outraged that he just closed his eyes and went to sleep - they wanted revenge and closure (if I wanted to be a lot more diplomatic, I'd say that "closure" is sort of the better term, it's also responsible for a lot of grief tourism). So I think this would partially explain the reactions seen on that interview you're referring to. Of course you have to remember that this is news reporting, and they want balance and perhaps the yanks just drew the short straw for "who gets to represent the raving mad revenge mongers". 20:48, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Newest plan from Obama
Sparta-care! Your baby, upon being born, will be subject to a review. If it is found to have any problems, then Obama will personally throw it off a cliff. What are your thoughts? --Passerby25 (talk) 23:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Will all cities be given their own Pit Of Doom? ENorman (talk) 23:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What if its a bouncing baby boy that comes back up to hit Obama in the face?--Tabris (talk) 04:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Samiclaus
Best beer EVAR. Anyone else familiar with this brew? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You don't still believe in Samiclaus, do you? At your age? SuspectedReplicant (talk) 04:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously he's never tried Newcy Brown. 13:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Samiclaus kicks Newcastle Brown's ass--and at 14% alcohol, it is well able to. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 13:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Must admit, I'd never heard of it: sounds excellent. 14:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really have a single favourite beer. I seem to move between German/Czech beers and English Ales with forays into stuff like Stella and Grolsch when I just want to get shitfaced. Having said that, the beers you can get here have always been high on my list of preferences since I discovered them a few years back. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 14:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been off the booze for over a year now (medication!) but my preference was for Guinness (I know it's not strictly beer) or the light South German Pilsener beers. If you just wanna get ratarsed on beer though, Newcy Brown's the thing. 14:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Guinness is good too, and got me a good laugh-at-Americans moment. I was in Dublin with some friends and we visited the Guinness brewery (this is a legal requirement for all tourists in Dublin). On the tour, you get given a free sample (about 1/4 pint - cheapskate bastards) but you have to talk about it first. One question was "What does the smell remind you of?" My friends and I, being English, sat around muttering "It smells like fucking Guinness". Then one American woman put up her hand and said "It smells kind of like a farm", and we just managed not to burst out laughing. Now three years later, on buying a Guinn, one is still expected to repeat that phrase. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Silly city types. Have you never smelled silage? The fermented grass does smell like brewing beer. 17:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I grew up in the countryside, in fact. I'd grant that you can smell the barley in Guinness, but as for smelling like a farm... well if you'll allow a bad joke, that's just bullshit. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 17:33, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You assume that smelling like a farm automatically means smelling like cowshit. Well living in the countryside and living next door to a silage clamp are not the same thing. Having lived in the finest dairy county for over 20 years it's probably only during the last 10 years or so that I have become aware of the smell especially as the odours are more volatile and dissipate quicker. Silage clamps are covered with a tarpaulin until they are ready for use. First of all from WP's entry on Guinness; "For many years a portion of the drink was aged to give a sharp lactic flavour", indeed if you have tried making home-brewed stout then lactic acid is often added to give it a smoother flavour. According to this site lactic acid is the most important constituent of silage and the sweet smell of silage is caused by the production of ethanol during fermentation (not always a good thing btw). This article expands on the tobacco/molasses smells in silage, Guinness uses a toasted malted barley which does not smell too different. In the USA some farms are so large that a visitor may not even smell the cows but only the silage. And I know that the corn and soya processing plant of Archer Daniels Midland in Decatur, Illinois uses their waste to make silage for cattle, the smell of which is often like a brewery.  19:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Gah! TLDR! I submit already! SuspectedReplicant (talk) 20:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Been there, done that: but we (a cheap pub trip Sheffield - Dublin £10! They were trying to get Sheffield's "airport" off the ground(!)) got almost unlimited Guinness. Much hilarity on the return flight! 14:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Airport off the ground. Teehee. - Clepper

Look who stirred up the whackjobs
All the frothing apocalypse seekers in Christianity have been stirred up by a whirled nut daily report that insane crackpot Harun Yahya has joined with his equally insane Jewish counterparts in calling for the Jewish temple to rebuilt. I guess the return of Jebus really is imminent. Oh, no, wait. Muslims think Yahya is a nutter just as much as the rest of the world does. Isn't pointing and laughing at these people fun? -- 16:51, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Having just had my latest adventures on WP commented on over here, I got to wondering: how many people here edit WP as well? And do they have wp:goat and wp:long-eared jerboa on their watchlists? And are they trying to find a way to work in a goat reference in the latter article? Totnesmartin (talk) 21:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I only edit anonymously when I spot something wrong with it and have reverted some vandalism, but I have no intention of signing up or doing anything formally with it. Although at some point, I will get around to amending, correcting and damn well rewriting so that it's coherent and relevent, the WP articles related to my research. If WP is going to beat my group's website to the top of Google's search, it may as well be right. Though how they'd react to a BON doing something like that is anyone's guess. 21:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * BONs are welcomed as warmly there as they are here. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a happy thought. Every wiki on which I've edited has treated BoNs badly to various extents. I've done my share of it too, but that's another story. I edit WP rarely. I've had an account for (checks) coming up to 3 years and still have less than 500 edits. I still make the odd edit here and there though. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 21:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Coming up to 3 years? Suspicions of your replicancy may soon be confirmed... do you dream about unicorns by any chance? Totnesmartin (talk) 21:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * What's "BON?" This sounds interesting. Tarantallegra (talk) 21:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Afraid not. It's shorthand for bunch-of-numbers - those who edit without registering an account. Obviously it doesn't apply to wikis where registration is mandatory. An aphanumeric username is more generally approved of as it confers an identity where as anonymous editors may use many different IPs because of their ISP allocation. 21:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Negative attitudes to BONs are usually just on the social side, as RW has a lot more chit-chat and is a closer community than WP as a whole, we prefer the user names to arguing or chatting with an IP - I don't think there's ever been any nastiness here to a BON just because they were a BON (at least not that I've seen or partaken in...). An edit to an article is judged on the content of the edit whether it's anonymous or by a user so that's usually not an issue. However, we do have reasons to believe that certain people allegedly watch RW (it could be an wiki-urban legend, of course), look at anonymous edits and try to correlate them with known users for sort-of malicious purposes; hence the encouragement to get an accout and the specific warning that your IP will be visible when you try to edit anonymously.  22:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Totnesmartin, I've got a grand total of about 5 edits on CP and none of 'em to that page. The "SuspectedReplicant" nick comes from me having the Bladerunner DVD in front of me when trying to come up with a kewl name. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 22:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Kewler than using your name and town, certainly. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Luckily, you don't live in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 11:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the answer Genghis Khant (Tarantallegra (talk) 05:50, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The Site is Growing Rapidly
Wow - the Alexa figures for the last month or so are the worst I've ever seen for CP with it regularly dropping out of the top 100,000. I know Alexa can be a bit random but it's a clear steep downward trend. StarFish (talk) 09:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * what was the big spike in May/June? Totnesmartin (talk) 10:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cracked.com's article of wikis, wasn't it? 10:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * oh yes, that must have been it. Totnesmartin (talk) 11:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But it's search appears to still be on the up, on average. So whatever SEO tricks they're pulling to get their pet articles to the top of google may working. It's probably completely dead and gone so we may just have to face that it's time to move on. 12:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, evolution has fallen right back, atheism is doing alright. Homosexuality has had a high return because it is exactly what the religious right want to here about it, so it actually receives legitimate, unsolicited linking. I still love attempts to get Richard Dawkins to link to his article there so it gets a higher return and Dawkins sees straight through it like that guy last year who 🇰🇪 was taunting him from the mainpage. We get a great return for Denyse O'Leary after 🇰🇪 got her to link our article from her blog. Now that is lulzy.  12:34, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, put in "compare to" RW, and click on pageviews/user and/or time on site. What did we do right in July to be so sticky? 20:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The line blurs...
Saw this article on healthcare: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/americans-without-health-insurance-attack-plan-to-give-them-health-insurance-200908141981/ I know it's satire, that's obvious. But in places it's really just quite bluntly reporting how these people actually think and reason. 15:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Reason? Totnesmartin (talk) 17:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Reason in the broadest possible sense. 17:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Very funny :) "To be fair to Fox News and the Republicans, they do have a principled objection to socialised medicine based largely on the fact that a black man won the election." I chuckled quietly to myself all day...  20:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I wish this wasn't so close to reality, but sadly it's not far off the mark. The parody of the woman in Arkansas sounds like some of the wilder shit I've heard people say down here.-- 23:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Just a little paranoid rant
Have you ever felt like your life is a TV show? Like everything is scripted? I am not talking about ID here, but this is just the way I have felt recently. But do not think of me as egotistical (for once), for I am not talking about my life (who would watch that?). I am talking about Sarah Palin.

It just seems to me like what is going on in Alaska is like some alternative realities 'Dawson's Creek'. We have a location with beautiful scenery (Alaska), cast of characters who are somewhat crazy or have unusual names and intense drama weekly. One of the central figures in it had power of some sort,pregnancy, whispers of divorce, intense media coverage. GOD, I can't get away with it. Always new rumors and accusations.

I mean, how else would anyone even care about Alaska? It is not even connected to the rest of the country. And a young, newly elected governor getting the national spotlight while he daughter is pregnant out of wedlock? Going against all her parties plans concerning abstinence? She steps out of office and divorce rumors pop up? It just seems so surreal to me.--Tabris (talk) 20:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Hierarchy of arguments
I like the hierarchy provided here. Sterile 22:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Should one of us send to this blogger for permission to transfer the image over here? 22:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks like the image was obtained from somewhere he found on stumbleupon. 23:12, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Considering anyone could re-create that image, I'd just copy it if we want to use it. Although it would be nice to know who first came up with the "hierarchy".  The image is no big deal, it's the idea that should be credited.  05:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Homeopathy's time cube
Scienceofhomeopathy.com why does horrible website design correlate with cranks. tmtoulouse 23:19, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Because they're so homophobic they don't want to display any asthetic skills they have. 23:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Because they are so crazy that they barely know how to use a computer, let alone make a good-looking webpage with one. 23:25, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fucking hell, I have seen some of that stuff since 97. What is wrong with these people? 01:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Web Page Maker is an easy-to-use web page editor that allows you to create and upload web pages in minutes without knowing HTML. Suddenly it all becomes clear. 01:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aargh, blue balls are chasing my mouse pointer thingie! WTF indeed. Reminds me of my favorite html page title: "new page 6". 05:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it just me or is "In Vitro" no longer refers to doing it in a petri dish?  11:17, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Time for another non-sequitur
The real question is does it bother you that is ? 23:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No, the real question is why do big spiders always appear in real life when I'm watcning a horror movie. It creeps me out. Bastards. -- 00:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I like spiders, sorry. The only time they freak me is if they're on my face in the night. They kill flies which is ace! I'm an acrophobe - you know te ad that's got a guy leaving the office from a very high building and sliding home down a flume? (think it's for a bank?) The first time I saw that I was actually sick (yup! puked all over the floor) when they showed a view down to the city below. Now I have to look away when I see it starting. 01:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a strict tetrapods good, octopods and hexapods bad policy. Ah, xenophobia. It keeps us alive, but also keeps us from having really alien aliens in our sci fi. A mixed damnation, I'd say. -- 02:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Spiders good I say. One, or a few, had a nice three story condo going next to one of my bathroom lights a few years back.  05:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You know, for a while I wasn't that much into them, but I'm getting to really appreciate themrock and John K. --Kels (talk) 16:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Bloody 3
During the day my mobile "broadband"[sic] drops connection about every three minutes. I put it down to 3 selling the bloody thing as a free phone with skype and all the local little prazzocks using it all the time. Now (02:21) it stays connected for ever. is a pain. 01:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Neologism heard a few days ago on the Pinko talk radio
Birthbaggers. 05:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ouch! 06:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I like it, though it sounds messy. So far, I've heard of Truthers, Teabaggers, Deathers, and Birthers.  Any other crazy coalitions to keep an eye out for? --Gulik (talk) 18:48, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Bots and vandal brake
I have added the noratelimit right to the bot usergroup. This means that bots will not be affected by the vandal brake's 15 second edit rate limit, just like sysops. The reason I did this without discussion is that bot scripts (from wikipedia for example) are not prepared to deal with the vandal brake (although most, if not all, have a built in edit rate limit, e.g. Capturebot2 waits ten seconds between uploading images). Most of our bots are also sysops, but if we unsysop them this should prevent any weird errors. I hope I was not overstepping my authority here.

I don't know where I should post announcements like these, I chose the Saloon bar because that's where most people will see it. -- Nx  / talk 08:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Trent, you and I are the only ones running script bots, you might as well just leave a message on our talkpages. I have sent you an email about bots any way.  09:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Any reason why other uses besides bots need the write API? 09:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Userscripts.-- Nx  / talk 09:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, fair enough. If we give bots the permission to edit protected pages would there be any reasons for a bot to have any rights besides bot? 09:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no reason why bots should be sysops. And considering recent history, it seems like a really bad idea. So easily abused. Keep in mind that anyone at all can create a bot, and if the "bot" name is not foobarbot, we'll sysop them within three days nine minutes...  09:35, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There are limitations, though. You can't typically get a list longer than 500 if you are not a bot. 09:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Umm, only bureaucrats can give the bot right. Bots also get the extra limits for lists, like sysops. Capturebot2 needs to be a sysop because the console and configuration is protected to prevent abuse. -- Nx  / talk 09:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But otherwise, bots don't have to be sysops as well, I agree with that. -- Nx  / talk 10:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Would $wgGroupPermissions['bot']['protect'] = true; allow them to? 10:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably, but there's also editprotected -- Nx  / talk 10:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Better still, then a bot can't protect a page, just write as it needs to. 11:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I get lists of 5000 at CP which seems to be the max. 10:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, their setup is borked. The max should be 500 for regular editors, and 5000 for sysops and bots. -- Nx  / talk 10:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And apparently, so is ours. -- Nx  / talk 10:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, no, the limit only applies to api queries, not the listings you get on pages like Special:Contributions. -- Nx  / talk 10:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia dying?
Ha! For all Andy's crowing about WP being in trouble, I see it took all of 2 minutes for my most recent edit there to drop off the last 500 recent edits. Gosh, wonder what CP's turn-around time is? --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 12:17, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * CP's last 500 edits go back (just now) from 17:39, 14 August. (last Friday afternoon (about tea-time)) to 07:58 16 August. 32 hours. Wp covers 500 changes in 5 minutes. We cover 15 hours 49 minutes. So CP is 384 times slower than WP, we are 184 times slower - and twice as active as CP. This site is growing rapidly! Totnesmartin (talk) 12:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Meeting
OK, not really to do with anything but I do like a bit of Mitchell and Webb, and this did make me almost "piss myself and cum at the same time, there might be a documentry in that". 14:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)