User talk:LeftyGreenMario/Archive2

Page history can be found here.

Question
How many times do you think we need to block Kingdamian1 before he breaks his habit of using all caps? My bet is 7 times. '— Saj ∞' 00:06, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think a thousand times. But I think it's time to stop being so nice. If I or anyone else catches him again with the all-caps excess (him doing it once or twice in a paragraph is fine), it's going to be a stern warning. 00:12, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * His keyboard isn't broken obviously so I think he should start to fix the habit.-- 00:15, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Block him for 5 years, 18 hours and 54 minutes if he does it again. '— Saj ∞' 00:23, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I would hand out sysoprevoke and then block him, as he can just unblock himself. But let's be fair first: warning comes first. 00:26, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I made a template for it. '— Saj ∞' 00:28, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Why are you guys so triggered by writing some words with all caps? I use it for emphasis! --Kingdamian1 (talk) 02:40, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the word is annoyed, while I have not seen it as much as they have due to being busy I think overuse can be annoying. 02:53, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Revoking my Sysop rights
Seriously? I have made many good edits and someone saw fit to make me a Sysop. Yet because of your dislike for me you decided to wade in and remove them AND add me to the Sysoprevoke user right. What the hell? If I had abused the rights then that would be fair enough but I had done nothing wrong. I will most likely start a Coop discussion about this soon.--RWRW (talk) 01:36, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Community consensus was that you shouldn't have been made a sysop in the first place, and RW is a mobocracy. 01:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Coop
'— Saj ∞' 01:42, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Best Editor
 § №1 Editor awarded to LeftyGreenMario —ClickerClock (talk) 08:37, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Such a nice community. Thanks for the beer too! 23:06, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you like IPA? I just tried it today, and I liked it. It goes so well with that prosciutto mozzarella log. I think I drank too fast though. 02:17, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * IPA? I haven't tried that. I guess that since I've spent most of my adult life in Asia, that's excusable. My favourite beer is Sapporo from Japan. Kirin Ichiban is also good. For legal reasons, Kirin Ichiban cannot be classified as a beer in Japan and is marketed there as a "brew" instead. But it's called a beer in other countries. I'm sure you've had both of those already. Maybe with a teriyaki pizza. Still, it looks like I might have to look for some English beer here in Taiwan to drink while watching the World Cup final in the wee small hours of the morning. Spud (talk) 00:24, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * IPA tastes much stronger than an average beer, just warning you. But it goes great with salty items, according to what I read. I did drink some Sapporo and I enjoyed it more the same. Seems like sometimes, they just taste the same, but that's because I'm not a regular drinker. I had Sapporo with, I think, ramen. 00:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

"Nerds is a candy"
Don't eat me, please! Nerd (talk) 23:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Depends on what you do. You might slow my dice roll, give me three dice, transform me into a vampire, or even cause me to electrocute people and destroy half their money. 23:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * (Bill Maher's Southern accent) My parents, as did their parents before them, and their parents before them. Nerd (talk) 14:37, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Trident... Do you Real Worlders (for a lack of a better word) grow Super Mushrooms to make chewing gum? Mama mia. 21:43, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * We grow mushrooms so that we can eat them and become so large we can just step on our opponents instead of jumping on them. Nerd (talk) 02:21, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Wellll, there is a wide variety of Mushrooms. The one you're describing sounds more like the Mega Mushroom. Mushrooms can make you tiny, metallic, electric, encased in a spring, invincible (yes!) or even turn you into a ghost. 23:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Russia
Do you speak Russian? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 19:01, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * No, but my sister is learning Russian on her own. 19:02, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow! She is actually your sister, not your sock? I lived in Russia as a baby and speak Russian! Here is my RW Russian page Kingdamian1 (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Uh, yeah, that's a living blood bag, not my sock. She's my identical twin sister. You can try talking Russian to her, maybe I'll get her back editing here. 19:17, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Здравствуйте. Меня зовут БaбyЛuigiOнФire. А ты как? Sorry I don't speak much but I'm working on it! ^^; 19:24, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Why are you interested in Russia? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 19:35, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Adding a Webshite
Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, I just joined RationalWiki (although I have been reading articles here for a while). But I came across a wiki that comes off as Encyclopedia Dramatica lite, it's called the Toxic Fandom Wiki. The general layout for the articles on this wiki is highlighting the negative aspects of a fandom, but also pointing out some positive points as well. However one article I came across is why I consider this wiki to be ED lite:

https://toxic-fandoms-and-hatedoms.wikia.com/wiki/Social_Justice_Warriors

In this article there are various examples of strawmaning, using overblown examples as sources, and some very outrageous claims, especially with number eight (without sources to back them up, which could also be said for their entire article) since I'm a progressive and I don't wake up every morning and think "Well time to go out and start bashing whitey/christiany/straighty/etc.. Granted in the interest of fairness they did make article for anti-progressives:

https://toxic-fandoms-and-hatedoms.wikia.com/wiki/Obsessive_Anti-SJWs

However compared to their "SJW" article in which they go into specific (and wrong) details as to why they're toxic, their "Anti-SJW" page is rather lack luster and weak in their attempts to make them seem toxic, hell it even has positive points of them while their "SJW" article has none. Also they have "SJW" as a category and most of the pages that fall under that category are unsurprisingly hatedoms. Also the wiki as a whole comes across as a fansite than an actual wiki. This is why I think this wiki should be added to the list of Webshites on this wiki. But I wanted to get your opinion first and if it is approved I don't which category it falls under. --Vincent Dawn (talk) 18:15, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if wikias are notable because virtually anyone can make them. But again, virtually anyone can make a webshite if bad web design is anything to go by (though I think it's easier to make a wikia. You can check if other wikias are there, though. I haven't seen any, though. If you really want to add that site, it would go in RationalWiki:Webshites/Internet. 18:42, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Article ratings
Can you help me understand how articles get rated? Is there a place I need to visit to get articles rated? For selfish reasons, I'd like to see if any of mine are considered good. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano Make a Reservation  19:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it's up to individual discretion but you can try asking others about the quality of the article. Have you checked RationalWiki:Article rating? 17:45, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Request
Hi, could you archive my talk page, please? People complain that I do not do it properly or something. Can you do it for me? Thanks! --Kingdamian1 (talk) 20:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Just let the bot do it or wait until it gets substantial enough. If you don't like negative messages, don't respond to trolls and also listen to our advice. 20:50, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Metric vs. Imperial
Who wins? But seriously, I read that last sentence. Sounds like a good problem in thermodynamics and unit conversion to me. You need to know the specific heat of water. You also need to know about phase transitions, in particular the latent heat of vaporization in this case. Nerd (talk) 12:20, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps but my impression was that you know that a centimeter is 1/100 of a meter, a milliliter is 1/1000 of a liter, a kilojoule is 1,000 joules. There are some other weird namings, to be fair, like a second, hour, day though I think there were attempts to make those into divisible by 10s, but failed. 18:30, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Those are common metric prefixes. Anyone who has taken general science knows them. Our conventions for the second, the hour, and the day come from the Babylonians, whose numbering system was based on the numbers 12 and 60. Such numbers are divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 12. The decimal numbering system, the number zero, and the Hindu-Arabic numerals are much more recent inventions/conventions. And yes, you can thank the Babylonians for the convention that there are 360 degrees in a full circle. I have two points to make. First, the numbering system you use is fundamentally irrelevant. Any given number, say $$\pi$$, has infinitely many representations, hence the questionable utility of calculating that number to more and more decimal places. One system may be more convenient than others, depending on the situation. You may prefer the decimal system, but not computers. Second, it simply does not matter which measuring system you use, as long as you always state your units. This is something that cannot be emphasized enough in laboratory sessions. Another common misconception, which I attempted correct in the article, is that the metric system is the only kind used in science. I basically gave an incomplete list on non-SI units commonly used in science. In fact, if you get deep enough in certain branches, you will start to appreciate certain arguments against the metric system. Why is that? The answer explains my indifference to metrication. The SI is merely a human convention, to which the Universe is fundamentally indifferent. (Ever wondered why mathematicians and their textbooks could not care less about units, when they say things like, "The volume of Gabriel's horn is $$\pi$$"?) The quantity measured, whatever it is, remains invariant. Again, as long as you state your units, it really does not matter. Pick the one you find most convenient.


 * Here is a fun example. The speed of light $$c$$ is of vital importance is the special theory of relativity. In a spacetime diagram, one draws two diagonal lines representing two beams of light in free space passing through the origin. They separate causal and acausal regions of the Universe, as nothing that carries information may exceed the speed of light. What is the angle of those diagonal lines? Well, it is most convenient, logical even, to make it $$\pi/4$$ (45 Babylonian degrees). How is this possible? Set $$c=1$$. If you have taken chemistry, you are surely familiar with another non-SI unit, the atomic mass unit.


 * Again, unit conversion is a matter of arithmetic. And while we're at it, there is a fun YouTube video from Fermilab in which the host, Professor Don Lincoln, casually poked fun of people who insist on the metric system. Apparently he got a lot of junk mail from those people. I had a good laugh. Forgot which one, though. Nerd (talk) 14:02, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Ay. Don't think metric system is a fool proof measure. I guess in the very basic stuff, it's easier to relate between different units in SI. I think in cooking, it's more useful, especially ratios. I remember taking chemistry. I hated it. But yeah I do remember the atomic mass unit. 17:20, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * So do we have an agreement? Can I remove that quote? Nerd (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if you want, . 20:53, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The deed is done. I'm glad we reached an understanding. If you are curious about how we do things with regards to units in higher physics, I have a couple of reading suggestions for you. Please go to the table of content of this book and go the the section "Convention, Notation, and Units". Please read the (newest) Preface of this book. (Edward Mills Purcell won the Nobel Prize in Physics for his work on nuclear magnetic resonance, which paved the way for nMRI, usually just MRI to appease the scientifically illiterate and nuclear-phobic.) From my point of view, the argument over which measuring system to use is most pointless. Just pick the most convenient one. Metric or imperial, it doesn't matter. Nerd (talk) 00:43, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Elections
Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano Make a Reservation  17:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Limit Kingdamian1's topics on the saloonbar
Kingdamian1 has been getting a bit topic creating happy recently. Should we restrict him from creating too many by only allowing him to create one per week or day? 00:15, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm, not sure. He didn't participate in the latest one, and the latest one seems pretty productive. I don't think it's a good idea to restrict now, even though his questions are, well, to put it politely, easily answered. 05:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Why isn't there an option to e-mail you. Or am I missing something? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 17:55, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think I provided an e-mail. I think I warned you enough times though. 18:16, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Why not? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 19:35, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Because she chose not to. Simple as that. 19:40, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I wasn't pressuring. It just struck me as weird. --Kingdamian1 (talk) 21:29, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I corrected a massive error in the article and sourced it beyond reason. Why should it be reverted? 88.98.241.40 (talk) 17:57, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably because you went beyond reason. :D But seriously, find one source that supports it clearest and get back to me. 18:13, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think the edits in Ayaan Hirsi Ali were really incorrect though the "who is controversial in the Muslim world for leaving Islam, for which the punishment for leaving the religion is death" part has to be rewritten as it sends an implication that Islam is a religion of intolerance. Probably rewrite to "fundamentalists" and specify exactly who in the "Muslim world" as there are 1.2 billion Muslims. 18:24, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Rename user
Can I ask you for a favor? Can you do something fun to this guy's username: User:DuceMoosolini communist ? Thanks! Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano Make a Reservation  17:07, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I hope I satisfied your request. 17:35, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano  Make a Reservation  02:27, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Your Opinion
What do you think of The Independent? MrNubNub (talk) 00:35, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Nothing strong about it. Seems a little left-wingy sometimes, though. 18:05, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

172.58
I see you've recently done some aggressive blocking of various IPs in the 172.58 range. This is almost certainly the G___p troll, a persistent pest, abusing the T-Mobile network as usual. Blocking individual addresses in that range is rather pointless. In cases like this, when it shows up, I do a short-term block on the IP address range 172.58.0.0/16. Hope this helps. Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 04:59, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah I should probably do a range block. I hate sounding stupid, but how do I do that? 17:17, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I looked in MediaWiki help. There's some information, but I feel I might not know what I'm doing. 17:22, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * To do a range block simply enter the range as I entered above. The /16 says "block the last sixteen bits" of a 32 bit address range; in this example every IP from 172.58.0.1 to 172.58.254.254 is blocked. Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 21:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, if such a block is appropriate again, please review it so I don't end up being like a Conservapedia and block a lot of people. 21:32, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You're right to be wary. All range blocks should have thorough documentation as to the owners of the physical addresses in the range, and the reason for the selection of the mask. Also, as long as TOR exists, rangeblock is a tool of limited use.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:37, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Using TOR to edit RationalWiki is next to impossible, I've tried it. What a Wonderful World (talk) 02:39, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * TOR? Gosh I'm crappy with abbreviations. 02:40, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Nominated for RMF Board
06:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

AP World History
So you took AP World History, huh? Are you pursuing post-secondary education? What's your major? Nerd (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't know, my major is in an unrelated field, if you can call it a major. I plan to be a 3D modeler for games, but took AP World History back in high school because it was encouraged overall. 16:21, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Isn't it called graphic design?
 * If my school offered AP World History, I would have taken it. Nerd (talk) 16:26, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * No, graphic design pertains mostly with advertising and digital photo techniques and making posters and T-shirt designs and stuff. What I want to do is to make game assets. Not even design them, just make them. I worked on a few (like making a few guns, one Mario), and I'm working on building an environment for the first time (being a subway), but procrastination sucks. Anyhow, my school is in an Asian-dominated city in California (being ~60% Asian) so that general idea of Asians valuing education, I guess it reflected in the city I live in. AP World History was a nice class, I learned a lot and the teacher was excellent. 20:37, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * So is it call game asset development, then? I don't know much about video games, sorry.
 * Ah, that's the beauty of being a melting pot, where people tolerate and learn from each other.
 * My world history teacher was great as well. Too bad he does not teach AP World History, or I would have taken it with him. My favorite AP class is AP Calculus AB, introducing what is probably one of the greatest intellectual achievement, ever. :-) Nerd (talk) 00:43, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't really call it a "major" per se. I'm not sure where it falls under, honestly. So when people ask me my major, I never really reply definitely. And yeah, I've lived in that place my entire life. It'll probably spook white nationalists for being white minority and also having a sizeable Latino population. I never took Calculus as high school just wasn't a pleasant experience for me.  19:43, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * How could you possibly not like the superior subject? Understandable. Some people find mathematics hard to swallow. It is entirely possible that they had bad teachers in the past. Some are of the rather strange opinion that such and such are obvious to them. If you don't understand, something must be wrong with you.
 * I would not worry too much about the "white nationalists". Their numbers are small and they are stupid. (Thanks, Uncle Ike!) Nerd (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Math just sucks to me IMO, but I think I hate English and Chemistry much more.
 * I worry about them a bit, but I entertain the thought of them trying to film themselves acting hysterical like "This isn't America I know" in the 99 Ranch Market or something, as other white supremacists have done in other ethnic markets or just plain old supermarkets. 20:47, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Screw them! Rise above yourself and grasp the world. (That's one of the inscriptions on the Fields Medal for Mathematics.) Speaking of "colors," I ran into this fun video. Nerd (talk) 14:51, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Now people can see how birds see us. Birds can see UV light, you know that? 18:24, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I did not know that. Which species of bird(s)? All of them? Nerd (talk) 21:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It varies for kinds of birds, but "many" birds have it according to Wikipedia. . 21:28, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Impressive! Nerd (talk) 21:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Since I previously mentioned the Fields Medal, one of the recipients of the prestigious award this year happens to be a refugee. Ha! (Not sure why everyone keeps repeating this, but the Fields Medal is way more prestigious than the Nobel Prize, because it is awarded only once every four years to people no older than 40 years of age.) Nerd (talk) 01:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * And no old people. :^) 17:43, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Huh? What's wrong with old people? These prizes aren't intended for a lifetime of contributions, but specific and groundbreaking findings. Nerd (talk) 12:49, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Don't go changing!
First of all, I really haven't taken any interest in video games since Pac-Man in 1983. And when I see discussions in the Saloon Bar that are just about video games, I ignore them and go on to the next section. But I can't say I've noticed you going on too much about Mario. Not in a bad way. And I think that adopting the Mario gimmick has helped you stand out from the crowd and that has obviously worked out very well for you. As far as that's concerned, don't go changing! In fact, I'd say, keep doing exactly what you have been doing here. You're doing well and you're doing good. Spud (talk) 09:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree completely! 11:59, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Change is for suckers and you are awesome! Embrace stagnation! RoninMacbeth (talk) 14:28, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll embrace the status quo, but I'd like to make Kazitor happy too. I mean, I wouldn't go out of my way to please literally everyone, but he's one of the nicer guys. Maybe he just needs some Shroom Shake to cheer him up. 18:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Please remember
to mark as patrolled the vandalism you undo.

ClickerClock (talk) 07:07, 5 October 2017 (UTC) If, please ping me by adding to your message, and signing it.

Rawr!
I shall breathe FIRE upon the RationalWiki! Buhahahaha! Bowser (talk) 22:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

GTA
But seriously, I thought the girls on the beach were high school girls because they talk to their mom on the phone and they act like teeny boppers? (And yes it's sadistic, but listening to them beg when they're cornered right before you put out their lights is kinda awesome, although sometimes I'll let them live just for the hell of it or if I don't feel like getting stars).
 * Valley girl stereotype. I also set people on fire, so get on my level. 22:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, setting people on fire in GTA is great fun! And it's not that I hate high school girls, I actually know a few who are kind of cool, it's just GTA characters are funny to mess with. Bowser (talk) 22:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Adam Perkins is really mad
I will hunt you down in real life and PUNCH you in the face, why have you created an article about me? You left-winger. Adam Perkins 2 (talk) 23:22, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I technically didn't create the article. I'm only responding because you issued a legal threat after a failed attempt to an unjustified whitewash of your article. 23:29, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Adam Perkins
The Adam Perkins accounts are highly unlikely to be the real Adam Perkins, there's been a troll impersonating people here and has been banned on 100+ sckpuppets (Michael Coombs), see also the emil kirkegaard talk where he was doing this. You should just delete the adam perkins talk page MrSheen (talk) 15:24, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Collapsed the discussion page, just for archival reasons. 15:29, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I've Withdrawn My Candidacy
I also posted that I hope people who would have voted for me as a first or second choice choose you or BobM instead. Best of luck, RoninMacbeth (talk) 18:01, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was aware of that. Thanks for stepping in though, at least making it more of a fight than let RobSmith get something I don't believe he deserves. 18:11, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Wow!
Thank you for this edit to universal healthcare. Wow! That was unexpected. Nerd (talk) 02:19, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I was aware of that issue for quite a while. I read about it in Skeptical Raptor first, but now I can't find the original article, so I just tried searching "americans subsidizing healthcare for other countries" and made the best of that. Were you aware of this, ? 02:29, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, no. I read somewhere that drug companies, American and European, make the most money in the U.S. I also read that most NATO allies are spending less than 2% of their GDP on defense. But I never knew that the American sick are actually paying for the medical bills of their European counterparts. Oh, come on! That is so not fair! Nerd (talk) 02:40, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, that's a simplistic way of saying it, but practically yes. We pay for R&D for other countries as our private sector sets the pricing, but in those countries, it's the government. Certainly, this disparity is unfair, but I believe there's little we can do about that. By the way, I'm getting some Bloomberg opinion that disputes it, but it's behind some pay/subscribe wall, so I'll disregard it. *shrug*. 02:49, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Without research and development, there can be no drug. So that statement is accurate, though, admittedly, misleading without context. But you and I both know what we are talking about, so there is no problem. Nerd (talk) 03:05, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You can read more here. Price discrimination is also a factor. The last paragraph is pretty much what I read in my economics textbook. Americans want the maximum quality, so prices will be inevitably high. Nerd (talk) 03:15, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That's unfortunately locked behind a subscribe wall. :( 03:16, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It is?! I did not bump into any paywall. Hmm. It's the Wall Street Journal, not Bloomberg, where I also ran into a paywall. Nerd (talk) 03:36, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * On the second thought, you're right. I ran into my limit. Nerd (talk) 16:17, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

When Stalin plays Mario
This is how the theme song sounds. Nerd (talk) 23:00, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It's no accident that Mario's red, amirite? 23:45, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Userboxbox
How did you get your userboxbox to stay up in the top right corner of your userpage? Mine refuses to do so and it's driving me nuts. 14:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Your title is too long. Try using a line break  . You might need two of them. I think there's a way to impose some width limit on the text portion of the title of the userbox title...  18:23, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations!
Congratulations on your election to the Board. I look forward to working with you. I hope that working with me in my UTC+8 time zone won't require you having to get up too early or go to bed too late to attend our meetings. Spud (talk) 13:56, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * https://www.mariowiki.com/images/4/48/Mario_HappyNewYear_Artwork.png
 * I live in UTC−7, so this means add 15 hours, correct? I think I can get up a little early. If I'm up at 9:00 am this means it'll be midnight for you? I can get up earlier. Anyhow I do have a Skype, I just don't have it installed in the computer. 18:00, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes. That's the time we've been having meetings. Midnight until two o'clock in the morning is fine by me any day of the week because I don't usually start work until four o'clock in the afternoon. We'll talk soon. Spud (talk) 01:31, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Congratulations to you and the other two new members, Bob M and David Gerard. —Kazitor Kazitor sig pic.png 21:38, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Congratulations to LeftyGreenMario, and ! Bongolian (talk) 21:10, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Contacting you
Hi, I'd like to add you to the RationalMedia Foundation Board Google Group. Could you provide a personal email? (My email link is on my userpage.) Thanks! 18:50, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The email should be sent. 18:55, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I responded; did you see it? 20:24, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup, I see it. Sorry for the delay, I had little time to respond yesterday and I almost forgot today. 20:00, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Why was The Best News removed from the Fake News page?
It's not a real site, but all of the sites on that page aren't real. Can you really say that it's LESS reliable than all those other sites? No way. It's just as much a fake news site as any other.
 * It's not really about if it's real or not, it's more about if it's notable enough. That it's created by Wix (which literally anyone can do), and that it's incomplete, makes it nonnotable, and I'd rather get sites that have enough traffic and have their own domain and such first, though those still aren't enough. We should not document every little site here, just as how we don't try going around and document every single crazy Youtuber that exists. 22:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 * But that site has some seriously crazy stuff. It is complete. I think so, anyway.
 * But tons of that kind of site exists already. Should we document every Kookmobile we find on the freeway? 00:13, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That site gives the Fake News page something which I think can't be found in any of the other sites on there- an example of such incompetent reporting that no standards whatsoever are retained.
 * Seen it already. 22:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Nah, Yahoo News has whole words and full sentences. THIS site doesn't. This site is the craziest you can get. SEE?
 * I see a horrible embodiment of Haig's law, and not much else. 22:48, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not even the worst example of Haig's Law. And yeah, thanks for pinpointing that particular subject, it slipped my mind. 23:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * So what are we saying here? That Alex Jones makes FAKE news, but somebody even MORE crazy than him makes REAL news? Logicnsuch (talk) 00:17, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You're not getting this, are you? 00:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Nah, I think I get it- this site is pretty essential to the Fake News page because it's an example of Fake News that can't be found elsewhere. Logicnsuch (talk) 00:43, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Should I put it back on there? Logicnsuch (talk) 01:01, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No. You can try asking other people though, but I strongly disagree with adding a site from Wix, Wix of all things, to the list. 01:09, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

== Birdman ==

Don't get me wrong, I fully expect Birdman to ignore my counterarguments, pat himself on the back, and walk away. I merely wished to have a chance to counter his bullshit by pointing out a major flaw in his reasoning. Further, I've wanted to do that since I encountered his bullshit self aggrandizement in the talkpage archives. 00:05, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I tried to counter his festering cerebrospinal fluid but he just ignored me and continued reiterating his points. I grew frustrated with debating this smug piece of work and I don't want others feeling the same. I pointed out another major flaw in his reasoning (particularly his argument addresses that very specific example of his argument and thus is applicable to only that example not necessarily the argument itself, but he responds with semantic games). My patience with intellectually dishonest pricks has worn thin. 00:11, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Like I said I've read the talkpage archives. I merely wished to put in my two cents on the matter, i.e. that by claiming a counter-paradox (is that an actual concept?) stating that God can solve the original problem via multiverse, he has by definition stated that God cannot solve the problem without resorting to using multiple timelines, therefor there are restrictions on God's powers (and one could argue on his knowledge as well), and therefor God is not Omnipotent, therefor we are back at square one. Therefor the original problem remains, and is still applicable, though possibly expanded somewhat.


 * This is all based on the apologetic habit of claiming a premise, arguing themselves into a corner, then attempting to get out of said corner via doublethink style special pleading and escape hatches. It irks me that they don't have the balls to adapt beyond their dogma. I mean, I'm able to carry the premise through to it's conclusion and I think the whole thing is bullshit, but I can at least argue for it coherently despite, or possibly even because of, that bias on my part. 00:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I see. I don't think they have the balls OR the holes to ever argue beyond their bulletproof "novel" ideas. I'm pretty sure this person has already found a conclusion and will argue to death from that conclusion he likes. I myself have problems with the omnipotence paradox (basically it's "can someone do something it can't do" which is already a self-defeating question) 00:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, but if one is supposedly omnipotent then even the unachievable shouldn't be beyond one's reach, since omnipotence means zero limitations on one's abilities. Basically the omnipotence paradox boils down to the concept of omnipotence being the unstoppable force and the unmovable object, even though those concepts are not only flawed but mutually exclusive. Or to put it another way, Omnipotence is shitty logic, built on shitty logic, built on shitty logic. 00:45, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Annd he responds with "but it's a resolution not a solution." Bulletproof comeback. His new lengthy response is all about "your argument is aktually 'Omnipotence against Measurements' not 'Omnipotence against Omnipotence'". More semantics. 18:34, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I saw, his Distinction without a difference was... cute. 13:26, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

The thing is
The look-at-mes tend to get irritated by someone 'not getting upset or looking bovvered' by their behaviour/treats them as asking serious questions etc - and occasionally 'borrowing' The Good Soldier Švejk and/or Sergeant Wilson.

I #am# mostly harmless. Anna Livia (talk) 22:48, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If you get on from being like this to Birdman, fine, I just don't see how this is productive or useful for future referral. I myself browse through talk pages and I don't want to put up with that ping pong crap. 23:03, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I use the strategy more generally (and half the discussion on many such talk pages is between other participants exploring side topics). Anna Livia (talk) 13:10, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

"what"
They're suggesting that the way the media portrays rural right wingers is not unlike the way intellectuals portrayed non-white cultures in the colonial era: lacking our liberal elegant manners and wisdom, but possessed of a naive simplicity that lacks the evil their betters must engage in. Which... is not an inaccurate representation of the media's portrayal. Not a joke most people would get for the same reasons you didn't, it's reallllllllly reaching. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:06, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I always thought "noble savage" would be like romanticization of Native American culture of being not "corrupt" by society and respecting nature and honor or something like that. The stereotypical rural right-wingers does have the "simplicity" and "backwardness" stereotype, but not the warrior community nature spirit crap that I associate more quickly with noble savages, hence my confusion. 21:11, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Collapse
I collapsed that section for the reason stated and because it was distracting from the main topic discussed. If he had something productive to contribute, I would be happy to read what he writes, if not, there is no reason to. Nerd (talk) 22:08, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Not really? "There's absolutely nothing meritocratic about how boards are selected now." does pertain to the problematic California forcing women to serve on board. At face value, it does seem like they're blatantly ignoring meritocracy, but it seems like the lack of meritocracy is a problem already, so it's to let people know that this isn't as shocking as it initially seems. And your counter "how will adding a new discriminatory practice help" is not a good one as ikanreed did not make that argument at all and did not even imply that. The comments are relevant to the conversation, as it's about identity politics and meritocracy and affirmative action. 02:31, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm mostly busting cheeseburgerfaces' chops
You're both actually fine.

I think they made just a couple real bad decisions and I saw them a second time on nerd's talk page. Naturally, I am the one true victim in all this and no one else was impacted and obviously my suffering is all that truly matters. But really, you're fine, CB's mostly fine but I think they're a little too quick to go "Dons mod hat, dispenses useless advice from on high" in a way that ignores context. It's not really that bad, in that internet moderation is never actually easy. Hell, restraint here is pretty great, and actual abuse is almost non-existent.

It's just that 2018 in general has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth towards people who adhere to politeness in debate as one of the highest principles, ignoring the way reality is actually unfolding and causing actual harm people suffer. It's pretty fair to say that rationalwiki doesn't set policy, and that critique is more directed at the media landscape than at mods here. But it nevertheless bleeds over into my feelings. And it's certainly been the case where CBF has stepped in has been to uphold some real shitty edits, in a one on one dispute other editors just quietly ignored, and often came down to either edit war or leave grossly misinformative purposefully slanted content up. That kind of situation is made worse by "play nice, now. bye"

It's frustrating to spend hours reading material, trying to analyze it fairly to what it's actually saying, find out it disagrees entirely with the statement its attached to(or sometimes just doesn't support), talk materially about the problems, and then get dragged into an irrelevant internet pedantry debate about tone. To then get told "play nice" when I want to have none of that, it feels lazy, like you only want the easy solutions to every problem.

But yeah, even though I think they could do a lot better with respect to me, I don't actually think they're doing bad. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:36, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I think Cheeseburgerface is a she. But anyway, I think you have less leeway to insult Nerd than the other users because Nerd's been here a while. I do sense exasperation though I still feel there are better ways to approach Nerd than start off with really harsh comments. I know how receiving harsh comments feels, especially from longer time users. People don't like criticism so you have to be sometimes careful where you jab. As for new drive-by users like Lankaster, Moobnert, and AndyChrist, there's more leeway because of their nature of not editing multiple pages and not engaging with the community, it seems like they have an axe to grind.
 * I am also not particularly fond of the calls to civility but as a moderator, I also think you should always assume good faith, but when people start doubling down and no rebuttals, that's a bit more of an excuse and it gets uber frustrating, particularly if the other user is being condescending and not really interested in hearing me out. This is exactly what happened with the Omnipotence paradox, my patience ran out with this Birdman person and believe me, I don't believe it's easy to wear out my patience. 02:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * and you know? that's all fair.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 03:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Block log
"19:01, 4 October 2018 LeftyGreenMario (talk | contribs) blocked Lankaster (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of 3 seconds (autoblock disabled) (For being a moron)" --Lankaster (talk) 20:14, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * You did a lot of moronic things. 01:23, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Elvis socks
You mean ?

I have a taste for weak puns - might as well inflict them where they are deserved. Anna Livia (talk) 19:51, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't mind me the puns. Unless they're really, really bad. 20:53, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Daft puns are the best way of dealing with the deliberately annoying. Anna Livia (talk) 22:33, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * My method is to post relevant obscure Mario memes. 04:10, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If makes allowances for those who 'enjoy vibrant discussions'/enjoy their particular opinions (and allow you the same with yours) and the 'look at me and my "naughty" words' - if those who set out to do so annoy you, they have won; if you find a response that amuses you (and others) or results in an enjoyable/interesting discussion with others then you have won. :) Anna Livia (talk) 10:17, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Bowsette & co.
So, as a feminist and Mario fan, I was wondering what you thought about the trend of anthropomorphizing Mario characters into conventionally attractive women. I'm personally not a huge fan of it, as a lot of fanart has been rather objectifying. 13:26, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It is disgusting, awkward, tone-deaf, shameful, wrong, juvenile, dirty, creepy, insulting, AND IT'S JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID.
 * Seriously, it's a tired trope that has been done to death (and I don't like anthropomorphizing anything into generic boring humans), and it's nothing new when it comes to fan art, as it's just a culmination of the most cliche tropes in fanart, and I am really tired of seeing that shit on the Internet but I do know that trend will die like any other fad. I do hope Bowsette or whatever the fuck that monstrous piece of trash is supposed to be dies a slow, burning, and horrible death as well as the other Mario enemies turned into absolute abominations. Just kill it with fire. It's not even accurate because Toadette turns in a princess, so I assume that if guys can use it, they will not turn into a princess and probably turn into another guy (like Mario, but... please no) or just get a dress. OR it won't work at all if you're not Toadette. 18:53, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I hadn't thought about that part, but that is also a very good point. (I am kind of curious to see what Bowsario would look like, though. :P) 13:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * You mean Wario turned into a female? He'd be like one of 's forms at the end of Wario Land 3. The hideous one. 17:24, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I meant Bowser turned into Mario. 16:23, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Wellll it wouldn't get as much attention (I also don't like to muck around with Bowser's form, Mario in a costume would be fine enough for me) but I need to tell you that Mario x Bowser shipping is freaking repulsive. I'd rather look at Mario x Luigi shipping than Mario x Bowser, though I'm not opposed to consensual sibling incest in of itself, as a concept. 03:59, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

You have been visited by Speeeed Loog.
What will you do? Give him praise. Give him more fast. 18:07, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Praise Lugs but praise mayro more. 18:26, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

User talk 101.182.39.228
I think 'the computer ate some of the words' in your first comment (as happens). Anna Livia (talk) 09:39, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

People leaving
I'm deliberately keeping this vague but I think you know who I'm referring to. They previously complained about the political bickering they see here and on our social media accounts. It's all about one group talking condescendingly about another group. You know the drill. Then there are the trolls... So yeah. Nerd (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Civility guidelines?
Do you really think another layer of bureaucracy is really necessary? It's a solution looking for a problem that doesn't really exist. If we are going to have one it should be this....(but in all seriousness a "courtesy policy" is just plain silly). Acei9 21:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * People already block each other for "being annoying" and "trolling". Establishing clearer rules/guidelines isn't necessarily a bad thing. And having people resort to calling each other the dirt of the earth at the drop of a beat gets pretty tiresome after a while. If having some official policy establishing that "guys, this is dumb, don't do this" results in better debate, then I'm all for. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 21:43, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Or you could just, you know, ignore people like the adults do which is far simpler than crafting a whole new set of guidelines for fairly subjective purposes. Acei9 21:47, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * You can ignore if if you aren't a moderator whose job is to, well, stop those things from happening. 22:24, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I was a mod for a long time and mods aren't there to moderate that everyone be nice and respectful of each other, only to clampdown on the most egregious behavior. Do you really want your mod time to be spent chasing up complaints that someone was mean to someone else? Acei9 23:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The attitude might be different today. What you think is "the most egregious behavior" might be different for me. A guideline would help recognize bad behavior for individuals who inevitably have different perceptions of what acceptable and not acceptable, as well as a constantly changing community. Our current guidelines, I believe, aren't specific or helpful enough for the most part so I have to rely on my own senses and usually without comments from other mods. 23:03, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Egregious being doxxing, racism, page blanking and other types of vandalism. Someone saying mean things is easily ignored and reverted. There doesn't need to be bootstrapped civility guidelines because I was under the impression that most of us were adults and it just adds a huge pile of bureaucratic nonsense to deal with a problem that is easily dealt with through user action. Acei9 23:27, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * You bring up "racism" but what's the line between racism and "someone saying mean things"? 23:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Has this actually been a problem? This site has operated for 11 years of which I have been a fairly consistent user of it for almost that entire 11 year period and this has never been something that needed some sort of courtesy guideline - even in the wild west like first few years. Why we should need it now is beyond me. Are we going to have a list of allowed phrases and words? How granular to we need to get? This is a solution looking for a problem. If someone believes someone is behaving in a racist fashion they can draw the mods attention, o the community attention, and deal with it as it comes up. Having layers of bureaucracy solves nothing. Acei9 23:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * And we already have the guidelines. Is adding further detail really going to help? Seems to have worked pretty well for over a decade. What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve and how exactly do you think laying more specific guidelines will help? Acei9 23:42, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

As I have said in other contexts - most RW users accept that the wiki is 'more exuberant'/allows a wider range of opinions to be expressed than many discussion sites etc - but this can still be combined with 'be reasonably civil with the person even as you explain the errors of their ways', 'allow for the divergent responses to the written word without the modification that facial expression would convey in a personal conversation' etc and 'allow for the multitude of viewpoints that are likely to be found here. Basically - the site has to be sufficiently user friendly for users to be friendly towards it. Anna Livia (talk) 10:29, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * you know what else isn’t very user-friendly? Layer upon layer of increasingly beaucratic nonsense about how people can and cannot express themselves. We already have civility guidelines and they have worked well so far. So why don’t we just stick with what works, has always worked. Acei9 18:45, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. We should really be able to tell off the jerks who have been coming here for a long time and discouraging newcomers. I have been preparing a range of devastating repostes that should have a pulverizing effect upon the cerebral cortices of known miscreants.Ariel31459 (talk) 19:50, 5 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Seems like you have a point. I realize that being rude is a regular thing in the wiki. Experience isn't really something that I can read in a guide but I do wish I precedents to follow on. I wish there are important decisions, failed or passed, that are properly archived than buried in Saloon bar. This way, I can at least read up what has failed or succeeded so I don't need to propose something that I didn't know has been done before and look at arguments for an after. But I still stand by that people have different levels of tolerance and we need to find a way to work with those differences rather than rely on individual judgement that can and will be prone to disagreement and possibly more drama. 02:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * people have a choice with their tolerance. If someone is offending them or the language isn’t to their liking they can ignore. If that doesn’t work and they are being harassed and followed around the wiki it can be brought to the mods. It’s very simple and just requires one to act like an adult. We don’t need rules on everything and every situation. Acei9 03:53, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "just requires one to act like an adult" Yes, this really sounds like how RW users typically behave. ;) 141.134.75.236 (talk) 04:46, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The unavoidable eventuality of mob-ruled organizations is that they may occasionally act like mobs. I often see people trying to make edits to improve the pure style of English of a badly composed article, and do so without regard to ideology. They can then be reverted by people who prefer stronger condemnation of a particular subject. Moderators like strong condemnation for people on the outs with this wiki. That's fine. But when you favor bad text for ideological reasons, you gets what you pays for. The moderators could, as a remedy, appoint a style committee (I am not volunteering). Ariel31459 (talk) 16:43, 7 November 2018 (UTC)


 * She's just saying this because she doesn't like opposing worldviews. Free speech trumps all. Incuding Trump, Who's a moron for trying to strengthen Libel Laws and going after reportersTheDarkMaster2 (talk) 23:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)TheDarkMaster2
 * I don't like opposing worldviews that rely on Styxhexenhammer666 videos as a foundation. 00:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * And 'acting like an adult' can mean deciding that the most appropriate response to juvenile name-calling/abuse and 'many stupid typos' is not going to the mods but a reason for the decline in contributors recently discussed elsewhere.
 * Will broaden my statement to 'RW is more exuberant than many wikis, and people are able/allowed/willing to give each other a piece of their minds/be opinionated' - especially when the subject of the comments is being a nuisance/looping back to the beginning of the argument/refusing to accept that in the battle between their peculiar opinion and the laws of nature and science, such laws always win.
 * Many people on RW are willing to play by the implicit rules (and accept that other people have views that are significantly different but valid in reality/give them some benefit and that they are not wrong or a threat) - it is those people who do not wish to 'play up, play up and play the game' who are the problem. Anna Livia (talk) 00:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

You'll love this
Quick background info, I play Secret World Legends. And one of the agent missions, which sadly unavailable for reference outside of the game, is a Mario Brothers reference. 02:41, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Tell me about it. I haven't seen corresponding information in MarioWiki... 02:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The mission is called "Down the Drain". Description:"A water treatment facility in Lucca, Italy has been contaminated with Filth and has become overrun fungal growth and mutated turtles. The Illuminati sent in an elementalist and and a hammer expert disguised as plumbers to rectify the situation, however all contact with the specialists has been lost. An agent who excels at search and rescue scenarios is requested to enter the water treatment facility, locate the missing agents, and assist them in eliminating the infected area." 02:58, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup, this hints at, the arcade one that is. One inconsistency is the presence of mushrooms, as the original Mario Bros. doesn't have mushrooms, and it's not until Super Mario Bros. when the Mushroom Kingdom starts existing and the idea of Mario + Mushrooms = power up becomes famous. Mario uses hammers only in the original Donkey Kong. But without the mushrooms, it wouldn't be as obvious, huh? Now, we just need fighting flies, crabs, and icicles that freeze up the place to REALLY nail the reference down. 04:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll let you know what the completion message says. I just thought I'd let you know about this since you enjoy Mario games. The mushroom reference may be related to one of the monster types in the game, or it may be a general Mario reference to give readers that extra nudge. 04:21, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Completion message: "Your agent performed outstandingly! Not only did they rescue the two agents, who were trapped in a store room, but they also managed to assist said agents in eliminating the contaminated threat." And sorry for the delay. 14:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Expression of support
Seeing you patiently engaged with toxic provocateurs and hearing of the traumatic story with your family, I took a liking to you. Just dropped by for a thumbs-up. I think we all need it from time to time. Gewgtweg (talk) 16:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. 18:17, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

"Conservative wingnuttery"
I removed this category from Brett Kavanaugh after reading its description. Kavanaugh is certainly a partisan, but does not appear to be that extreme. And while we are at it I would never call him "incompetent," given his track record. One does not simply graduate from Yale Law School, clerk for the Supreme Court, then serve for 12 years as an appellate judge. Whatever opinion you have of him, the word "incompetent" is unsuitable. Nerd (talk) 04:53, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * He had a meltdown on live television where he claimed that the sexual assault investigation conducted by the Senate was the result of a conspiracy on behalf of the Clintons to get revenge after the 2016 election. He's fucking crazy. 05:14, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "One does not simply walk into Mordor" Yet that's still sorta what happened. Honestly, I think the ending of Lord of the Rings was kinda dumb. Also, a thing about partisan hacks. The more partisan, the less "competence" factors into anything, because corruption is precisely the failure of the system with intention. The weird thing about Kavanaugh is that he seems like your average milquetoast conservative on most issues, except when it comes to the power of the executive branch, which he for some reason wants to empower to totalitarian heights. What's the proper category for that? *shrugs* 141.134.75.236 (talk) 05:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, he appears crazy at times, but in the cases you mentioned, it was hardly because he was a "conservative." Sexual assault accusations are very serious and could ruin one's career. Thus his meltdown was understandable, though he should have been calmer and asked for an investigation like Robert Mueller did. As for the Clintons, there are people who dislike them but do not identify as "conservative."
 * I have not watched any of those movies. If you are referring to his belief in the "unitary executive theory," while it sounds authoritarian, it is actually not, at least in the context of the United States. Although Kavanaugh believes the President should bear full responsibility of the execution of federal laws and hold full authority over federal agencies, he does not want the President to have the power to make or to interpret laws, which would violate the checks and balances. Furthermore, Kavanaugh, as far as I understand, has never been accused of corruption. Nerd (talk) 14:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * @Nerd It's how the "One does not simply" phrase entered into pop culture. And with totalitarian executive power I'm mostly referring to his unyielding backing of the PATRIOT Act. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 14:08, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I have never heard of that aspect of Kavanaugh's career. Will research.
 * Indeed. I do declare I cannot recall when or why I first used that phrase. Nerd (talk) 14:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)


 * So what do you say, Ms. Mario? Nerd (talk) 01:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you think his Clinton fear-mongering is enough for category? To clarify, that's the primary reason I added the category in the first place. That's on top of his other actions. 01:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Category:Right-wing activists could be a viable alternative. 141.134.75.236 (talk) 01:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Why not both.gif. But maybe we can wait and see how this guy behaves pans out. Oh, and conservative wingnuttery is a subcategory of what you're proposing... 01:43, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, as I mentioned to Il Duce, there are those who do not like the Clintons one bit but do not identify as conservative. made an ideal proposal. His views can be described as moderately and uniformly conservative. Further, there is no reason to expect him to change dramatically as he has always been like this. Nerd (talk) 02:01, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't really agree it's that moderate. I seen comparisons drawn to Antonin Scalia and that character is categorized as a conservative wingnut. 02:10, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, that one line. Unlike Scalia, Kavanaugh does not insist on originalism. Nerd (talk) 02:13, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Lankaster
Do you think there'll be a problem if I autopatroll User:Lankaster? He's not a vandal, he's recognized by the community, and patrolling the 8 million edits he makes in a day is a pain in the ass. 21:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see a really big problem but the user has a history of edit warring and handling conflict very badly (passive agressive attitude). Maybe give autopatrol but proceed cautiously. 06:41, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Could You remove me from the Vandal Bin?

 * Providing my opinions isn't vandalism (Not that I've been active that much anyway I guess this is turning a new leaf)TheDarkMaster2 (talk) 23:07, 11 November 2018 (UTC)TheDarkMaster2
 * You got into that hole yourself, but I'll ask other moderators. If they let you out, it's only because you're a persistent irritant at worst. 23:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm with you.
I'm not trying to edit userspace, I'm not trying to edit anything. I never did anything like that, yours is the first talk page I'm on. It's also outside of my wheelhouse right now, you maniac. I might need to edit, and I might edit poorly, but screw you, I'm on your side. If anyone asks, I used words to say you're shit, then I took it back. Because I'm undecidedGol Sarnitt (talk) 07:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Oh, you mean my creating userspace on somebody else. Sorry, I didn't follow.  I'll try to respect userspace from now on, didn't know it was generally respected, haven't been afforded that.  Didn't need it, but fuck me, that's my privilege.Gol Sarnitt (talk) 07:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I will unequivocally respect this rule from now on. I have spent some time thinking about how I wasn't really at fault, but I was.  I am over my butthurtedness.  Thank you for addressing it. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 07:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I understood later that you were really mocking TheDarkMaster2's bad signature but you ended up confusing others (one deleted the page you made). But yes I am not trying to antagonize you but only offering advice to try to avoid more unnecessary conflict especially with that user. 15:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry
James Earl Cash keeps suggesting that my real surname is McLaghing (1, 2, 3). Since you said that such behavior is strongly discouraged, you could remember him about that. -Lankaster (talk) 10:12, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * yeah he really needs to stop that. 18:35, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

You and Conspiracies

 * You seem rather gullible in some ways regarding conspiracies. Just because there's someone in Mississippi who disagrees with you doesn't mean it's me.TheDarkMaster2 (talk) 23:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)TheDarkMaster2
 * Hey, maybe you wanna look up "Common Decency for Dummies", it'll help all of your problems. And to think I was actually thinking of autopatrolling you.--Don Juan (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Corn is grass
And popcorn is popped grass seeds. Also, most people are cattle. TheMoreYouKnow!.GIF 141.134.75.236 (talk) 00:30, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess this answers Luigi's many, many questions of animals he thinks are cows. Also the whole corn thing is a Rifftrax gag. 00:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sheeples? Anna Livia (talk) 12:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Mario knows, but Luigi thinks they're also cows. 18:14, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * How dare no one mention the Patron Saint of all things Rational, the almighty Goat. I mean, seriously, you're talking about livestock and you leave out goats?--Don Juan (talk) 22:54, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Franklin graham
Thank you for reverting my edit on Franklin Graham's page. It was fine the way it was before. Micky12 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * May I ask why you made that change? 20:15, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I made the change because I wanted to make the article seem less snarky. But I was wrong. Sorry. Micky12 (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't need to be sorry. That's all right. 20:43, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for forgiving me. Micky12 (talk) 20:46, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Your mod rights are coming up for renewal
03:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Your mod rights are renewed. And you are the most popular mod, by some margin. :) Have fun! 13:14, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Doublethink and Feminism
It seems Doublethink has a thing for antifeminism, and given that my knowledge of the subject is somewhat lacking beyond an understanding of feminist theory, perhaps you could help explain on the relevent pages? 02:00, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Homophobia icon
Who's going to make the icon for the possible homophobia template? I would, but I don't know how. TheEOE (talk) 03:57, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I can cook one up. Hold on. I freaking wish the Islamophobia images is an SVG. 03:59, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * icon great! now ya just gotta svg-ify islamophobia image :) 07:10, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The Homophobia portal is done. TheEOE (talk) 12:20, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support. I figure I'm just going to crib from my own "guy running away". Not now, but maybe it's on my to-do list. 17:04, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

A long quote
Could you please keep an eye on this? I'm not going to remove the long quote unless enough consensus is reach, and I'm not going to respond to James' provocations, but he seems to the warpath so... -Lankaster (talk) 19:25, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with Lankaster on this one. While I have no problem with long page quotes, what does that specific quote have to do with the article content? RoninMacbeth (talk) 19:44, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "I'm inclined to agree with Lankaster on this one..." Then please comment directly on Rationalization Talk Page. I wrote here just to make a moderator aware that things could escalate and that I'm trying my best to avoid that. -Lankaster (talk) 20:06, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, Lankaster said he wanted some consensus before making any changes, and true to form, he makes an edit without getting any consensus, and now I can't revert or people will come down on me like a ton of bricks. As usual, you're dishonest to the nine. James Earl Cash (talk) 20:08, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "Lankaster said he wanted some consensus before making any changes and true to form, he makes an edit without getting any consensus" False, I said "I'm not going to remove the long quote unless enough consensus is reach" (click). -Lankaster (talk) 23:00, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you still put your quote on the page without consensus to try and weasel your way in while knowing I can't remove it without people coming down on me, but you'll bitch at me over and over again for removing a minor couple sentences you wrote even though I already explained I thought they were article bloat. If I had tried what you did just now, you'd be crying to everyone until someone would take pity and see your way if only for how loud you whimper. James Earl Cash (talk) 23:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Please stop with the accusations and get to the argument. As I am not familiar with the discussion, I can't offer much opinion right now but keep in mind that when it comes to top page quotes, brevity is important. Of course it should accurately sum up the page or at least show an interesting perspective. But again, brevity is key, unless you absolutely must have the quote on the top of the page. 00:26, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Did I just get Stefan Molyneux'd on Rationalwiki? James Earl Cash (talk) 06:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Did I just see "Stefan Molyneux" used as an adjective? RoninMacbeth (talk) 06:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It has the same ring of being Zuckerberged. I can't think of a way to say "Not an argumented," without it being drawn out and awkward. James Earl Cash (talk) 06:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

DarkMaster2
Why did you block him? RoninMacbeth (talk) 05:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Harrassment
See Dysklyver's talkpage for more information. 19:17, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Lower activity
If anyone noticed, it's because a computer I used often is having issues and constantly crashing so I am more and more reliant on hooking mobile to contribute, though it's very unwieldy. So yeah, I am probably missing on a few situations and I wish I can engage more, but I wish not on mobile... 19:03, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry to hear that. I tried editing on a mobile phone once; it was a rather unpleasant experience. I'd rather bake my tablet after inscribing my essay on it. Nerd (talk) 20:32, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Same here. I once tried creating a page from my phone, and what happened was every phone-using wiki editor's nightmare: I highlighted the entire content of the page, but then my finger accidentally hit that microscopic "BACKSPACE" button on the touch keyboard! I was so frustrated that I gave up on creating the page... but one day I will... from my computer... -- Goatspeed. 01:42, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Pissed.
I'm going to go finish some updates to my computer and then play one of the Elder Scrolls games. Let me know via my talkpage when people stop acting like idiots over the Gillette Manufactroversy and realize that they're just free advertising for said company. 23:03, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I was going to ask you if you're really feeling all right because you're being really... shouty. I hope you feel better and I hope to probably limit your interaction with morons because they can drive you pretty nuts. I don't know, as long as right-wing outrage culture exists, more of this is gonna happen. 23:05, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Half the problem is innate knowledge and aptitude for exploiting others for egocentric reasons, and hence recognizing said behavior. I'm serious, with a different roll of the dice I'd be the guy cooking up and/or directing these kinds of publicity stunts. I'd likely be payed a decent amount too. What really pisses me off isn't the current comments, it's the knowledge that A) this will happen again in the future over some otherwise trivial shit, and B) the galling understanding that social progress is being monetized by companies for their own ends. The current crop of stupid is just the pale reflection of those facts. 23:13, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. But I think what matters is how you deal with it. It's okay to get angry over this, but I don't want you breaking a nail or getting depressed over it because society is stupid. That being said, I do think it's rather depressing that companies use social progress only as an advertising point. I really don't see how promoting LGBT+ is going to affect sales of a candy bar and honestly, these companies should be actually addressing income inequality rather than accumulating cash rather than spending money on so many commercials and advertising stunts. 23:30, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually, Ms. Mario, companies, like people, tend to do whatever it is they are incentivized to do. In the language of economics, they tend to maximize profits/utility and minimize costs. Therefore, they will promote social progress or oppose it if it advances their bottom line. In our example, they are spending a large sum on advertising as an investment that, they hope, will generate additional demand for their products, which would increase their profits. When designing an advertisement, it is generally a good idea to catch on with whatever is trendy at the time in order to capture as much attention as possible. has a point here.

To both Mario and Comrade Grammar: Sometimes it is a good idea to disengage. Consider moving/spending more time over at Wikipedia if you must be online editing something. Also consider reading some books. Nerd (talk) 23:40, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't think I'll ever be a successful marketer if it means seeing everything in just profits and disregard morals and consumer happiness. :/ I know I love books and I feel like there's never enough time when I'm at a bookstore, library, or museum, you know? I always spend A LOT of time in book places, and I know this because my legs start getting sore just from standing and walking and browsing books. 23:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ha ha! No worries. I would suck, too. But the key to remember is that people respond to incentives. Economic policy is all about getting the "bad guys" to do the "right thing." I do recommend an introductory course on economics if that is at all an option for you. It will open your eyes.
 * Likewise. While other people may love window-shopping or actual shopping, I prefer to just go to a bookstore or a library and kill my time. And quite conveniently, books provide valuable sources for my edits. :-) Nerd (talk) 23:58, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Disengaging was the major idea behind this topic. And thank you for understanding how hollow these "controversies" are. I really hate when people completely miss the point on this sort of thing, since there is an actual problem, and even material for debate, it's just lost under all the yelling. 01:42, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm intensely sad that our predilection for letting sea lions do as they may is driving some of our best and kindest editors away. It's probably always been this bad, but it feels like it's gotten worse.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Nobsy
LGM, Unless you think we can actually get a majority vote on desysopping him, I think it's best to treat him as the troll that he is. I've been collapsing his more egregious edits in the Saloon. I think anything that he posts that is any way associated with his documented racism, antisemitism, conspiracy theories, or exopolitical beliefs should be troll collapsed. If you haven't had a look at this page recently, take a look at Conservapedia:RobSmith. Bongolian (talk) 19:21, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I think he should be desysoped just on the very personal attacks on me but yeah, I have seen the page, haven't went too deep in it. Will keep in mind. 19:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If you want to make a Coop case out of Nobs harassing you, I'd be happy to support you. Bongolian (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree. Let's coop the fucker. 20:42, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Can someone start it. I'd do it, but it's not in my immediate schedule right now. Just bring up how this guy lobbed very personal and completely false attacks on my family. This is actually the second time he called my family "inbred", with the first time being his anti-endorsement in an election (and he implied on top that my family had "bowel movements" like Hitler's family, which is real low even for him). The other insults, like being called a "bigot", "racist", "anti-science", or "a menace to society", I can take, because they aren't personal. But the "inbred" remarks? I don't find these comments acceptable at all.  20:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I just want to thank you for bringing back the robrail. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:11, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * What's the robrail? 21:15, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It's where you take all the nobs comments, and then you put them where you don't have to look at them. A concept from years ago on RW.  Combination of "rob" and "derail".  an example.  ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

You mean the collapsing that I did in the Saloon I guess. I have to leave in for a few hours. If there's no Coop case when I get back, I'll start it up. Bongolian (talk) 21:30, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you
I thank you for your understanding, and I apologise for being the cause of a misunderstanding between us. Being crude and blunt is just my style, I guess, but I try not to test people's patience.

I've been criticized for not contributing to mainspace articles enough. Recently when I offered to collaborate on an article on its Talk page, a problem editor, who's been stalking and harassing me with personal attacks, scrolled up my offer for assistance. This certainly is not good faith editing or conduct. Now he's engaging in Talk page edit warring. If you have a moment's, would you look into it, please.

Also, I never congratulated you on your hard fought election well done, my bad. Congratulations! nobspiss in my ear 22:18, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and create the coop case against me, . The only reason that you were criticized for not contributing mainspace articles was because you ran for moderator without any qualifications. Do we want a conspiracy theorist offering us help? I think not. In good faith, I have offered to correct anything erroneous on Conservapedia:RobSmith as well as suggest that  edit the page (Conservapedia talk:RobSmith). Bongolian (talk) 23:01, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't go spoiling for a fight - you do. I'm a peacemaker. That's why I ran for Mod. Your trolling Talk pages with scrolls like "racist" or "conspiracy theorist" is an attempt to rope innocent people into your conspiracy theories. nobspiss in my ear 23:15, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Since when has Bongolian had conspiracy theories? And what are these conspiracy theories? Are you sure that your belief that Bongolian has conspiracy theories isn't a conspiracy theory? 23:25, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. RobSmith's comments on the Trump-Russia talk page are so egregious I see there is no hope for him becoming a useful contributor. Ariel31459 (talk) 23:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * History will tell. Building the case for collusion on Oleg Deripaska will bite you in the ass. nobspiss in my ear 00:41, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I just will say that I accept your apology. Take care. 21:35, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * lol. I randomly caught up on this whole thing, and whew. Y'all let this scum swilling guttershite go free with not even a slap on the wrist, and don't mind being treated this way? To the point that the rest of you are perfectly okay with letting your fellows receive this kind of grief? That explains a lot about the state this place is in. Yep, I deffo don't regret my decision to bounce and watch on high with the kind of fascination that veers between amusement and horror. James Earl Cash (talk) 02:33, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah. 08:52, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Discord
Someone nominated you to be the server owner over at the RW Discord server. Just thought I'd let you know. —  Ɖøn Ĵuan  Harass  16:23, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. Don't think I got pinged though. 19:11, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * When you get there can you please get rid of all the ageist pricks? The people there are bastards. Bullies, plain and simple. Why do such people exist?! —  Ɖøn Ĵuan  Harass  19:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ageist? What exactly do you mean by that? -- Goatspeed. 20:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There have been unconfirmed reports that certain users may discriminate against young people. 21:45, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * young people are all wrong and i'm right. good thing i'm not on the discord much - David Gerard (talk) 00:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Idea
In the future, why don't we elect the server owner of the Discord, as well as managers of our various social media outlets and spin-offs (Twitter and Facebook account managers, Reddit moderators, etc.) here? I mean, it gives us greater control over our own spin-offs, as well as incentivizing the management and continued life of our presence on other sites. Hell, we can even fold the role in with that of site moderator, or even just pass the management stuff to the Board. RoninMacbeth (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should but there has to be some engagement in all of those platforms. Maybe the self-regulation for these platformers are ultimately fine, but do you know anyone from this wiki is up to task for regulating the spinoffs? The only one I really frequent to any extent would be the Discord as I don't really have a Twitter or a Facebook or a Reddit. 22:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in doing the twitter. 22:21, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * has supposedly been running the RW Twitter account for several years. It would be a good idea to talk to him. Bongolian (talk) 00:01, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * my advantage in doing the twitter is being literally a board member and having done it for years and knowing the place. We need someone on the Facebook tho. The real problem with social media is getting someone to do it consistently - Fuzzy was doing the FB for a while but eventually stopped. Nobody can work out how to make the RW subreddit suck, which is why I locked it until someone volunteers to bother doing moderation consistently in the face of Rome Viharo shitting it up. Etc - David Gerard (talk) 00:29, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * like the assorted FB groups are all Unofficial Fan Group and that' fine y'know, that's perfect. The official one needs someone who understands we're representing here - David Gerard (talk) 00:32, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Now I'm interested in doing the Facebook. 03:22, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * let us know your Facebook name (or email it to me if you don't want it public - dgerard@gmail.com) - David Gerard (talk) 16:22, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Alleged tourism slump
If you look at the date of the article from The Guardian, you will find that it was from February 2017. That Wikipedia list I linked has data for 2017 as well as 2018. Therefore, this Guardian article is outdated. Trump's inauguration and immigration policies might have had a dampening effect on the tourism industry initially, but this perturbation has no real long-term effect. The data shows this very clearly. (Note that we are talking about international airports.) If you want some examples, I have some, too. Let's look at two of the largest American cities (with at least one international airport): New York City and Chicago.
 * A record-breaking number of tourists visited the Second City last year, including numerous international travelers. In fact, they have plans to modernize and expand the O'Hare International Airport. Airlines are more than happy to chip in. A direct fight between Auckland and Chicago opened in 2018.
 * The world's longest nonstop long-haul flight, Singapore to New York City, opened in 2018. You would spend 20 hours in the air on a journey of 9,500 miles (15,200 km). For comparison, the (mean) radius of the Earth is about 6,400 km, meaning half the circumference is 20,100 km. The technology needed for this, aircraft that are more fuel efficient and with higher maximum takeoff weight (to carry more fuel, passengers, and amenities), has been around for years now. I remember reading about a demonstration flight from Hong Kong to New York City the "wrong" way. But it has only become economically feasible in recent years.

We can thus conclude that the effects of the policies of the Trump administration on the American tourism industry has been either non-existent or benign. This situation is similar to the renewable energy industry, which keeps growing despite the attitude of the Trump White House towards "beautiful clean coal." The slight difference here is that it encourages domestic manufacturing by limiting the chances of the market being flooded by items made in China. (And there are many "conservatives" who love green energy.) I wrote about this on the page. Nerd (talk) 16:26, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Luigi Bullies Kids
18:32, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Luigi even stole their pwecious Mr. Scooty, that monster. 07:02, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Waluigi is sad that you dislike him
23:17, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I mean, he is a complete loser whose existence is just comedy fodder. 23:40, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

In the hope of reaching a discreet understanding
We should not be inventing new meanings for old words. Let's not be hasty in our claims along the lines of "bias is OK if it is backed-up," an idea I see all too often on social media. That is contradicted by standard usage which calls bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair. So, usually if you are considered biased in your opinions, the general assumption is you are probably being unfair. We should say a criticism is fair, not that a bias is OK. Ariel31459 (talk) 22:34, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't really want to argue about bias against lazy people who just say an article is biased and leave. We get comment drops like this all the time, and it's that sort of dictionary definition of bias leading to "bias = bad" mentality in the first place. I'm not sure why you'd plop a distinction between "criticism" and "bias", bias always plays a hand in criticism, and we still go back to the point of sensible argument + sensible support. 04:48, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Bias is very different from criticism. Criticism can be fair or unfair. Bias is usually assumed to be unfair except when referring to ones ideological bent. e.g. "She has a strong liberal (or conservative) bias, yet she still treats opponents fairly in debates." Even if an article is composed entirely of criticism, it can still be fair, even from the point of view of the person being criticized. Of course it is impossible to be completely fair at all times. Our articles are not supposed to be monuments to some current opinion. You should invite these critics to propose their improvements. Yes, it means extra trouble. That's the job. Ariel31459 (talk) 17:48, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * But bias and criticism aren't mutually exclusive concepts at all. Quite the opposite actually. Any opinion you spout is affected by bias. Criticism is essentially opinion; i.e. it's biased to begin with. Criticism can also be fair or unfair, has differing qualities. 20:23, 15 April 2019 (UTC)