RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive32

Drunken editing
I just got in from a friend's party (1am now here in the USSR UK) and of the approximately sixty odd people there only about five of them got sick. Three of them in my mate's kitchen though. HA! Poor guy. Anyway, I saw my ex-girlfriend there and we shared an awkward moment talking about the past. I'm actually surprised how off guard it caught me as I have no real outlet and have simply tried avoiding her for the last two months. Not that I reacted outwardly but I felt a weird twinge. Then "I have a sudden need for another cigarette!" I can't wait until I'm scarpering to uni a month or so to get away from this. 00:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You didn't suggest a quick and temporary reunion in the closet toilet? 14:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but she's not that kinda girl... That wasn't what we were talking about anyway. We were in a relationship for 2 1/2 years and it was more "this is a difficult break up" kinda thing. Your comment made me smile, so thankering you! 21:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Working toward a post-CP RW
Alright, Armondikov and I were talking last night about removing CP references from mainspace articles, and I've been doing a lot of editing toward the goal of making the mainspace CP-free. That may piss a few folks off, but I think it would be good for the project to make it even less CP-centric. My prolonged boycott idea didn't really get off the ground, and that's disappointing. We're smart and funny. The world is full of nonsense. That should be enough to keep us busy--who needs to pick on a loser like Andy?

For now, I'm not removing the "CP has an article on this too...." template. But should we? Thoughts? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest linking to more sites, not fewer. Linking to Creation Wiki, WikiSynergy and aSK as well as CP would allow a wider range of wingnuttery to be exposed. If, at some point in the future, CP finally disappears, just take it out of a common template. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 14:50, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea--I'll start making the relevant templates this evening. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 14:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been working on a few new-age medical woo items and there are certainly some good WTF sites out there. It takes a bit more work than just watching the CP ant-farm but it's getting like the Last of the Mohicans over there. 15:12, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Linking out to them and using the examples is great, WND (although they have gone a bit birtherific) for example. I'd encourage using CP as evidence as CP is certainly, as our article on them suggests, a manifestation of how such people think. So indeed it's a great first stop. But the random "kendoll" references and "some people" links things need to go or at least be integrated in properly as in chaning "some dicks think" to "a neo-conservative perspective thinks... as evidenced by Conservapedia". 15:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and other stalwarts of the American right wing could provide ample amusement and discussion. EddyP (talk) 15:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Where CP has a particularly funny history, there's no reason why RW couldn't host a separate article to preserve teh lulz but keep the mainspace articles CP-free. In fact, since so many diffs have been TKed, it would be a good excuse to give things a thorough house cleaning. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 15:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's why we have the CP space--I'm not talking about getting rid of that. Just, as A-kov says, lame links to CP material in the mainspace....TheoryOfPractice (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry... yes, that's what I meant. I just forgot to mention the actual namespace. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 15:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * While most of us know about Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity et al, we don't get the same exposure to them outside North America. It was the online presence of CP which allowed the rest of the world to follow their antics. 15:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * To comment on the initial point, I think that raking CP out of mainspace is a great idea. I would have suggested that it should be discussed a bit more generally first, but as I agree with the idea wholeheartedly I'm not going to mention it. --BobNot Jim 16:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bob, you're right, I should have brought it up for discussion before going on a tear, but I was drunk figured presenting as a fait accompli would get things moving quicker and generate discussion should there be any protest....TheoryOfPractice (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * EC. Well, I'm not going to object, but I've got to mention that deciding to shut off all TOR access was another decision made last night in what seems to have been the heat of the moment by a few people. Horrible thing this democracy I know.  :-) --BobNot Jim 17:08, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only objection I would have to this mainspace scrubbing is that we lose a large number of diff-links to lunacy on Conservapedia. 17:06, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Most of what I've removed has been internal links to Andy articles or other sysop articles, a few uses of the Andy picture and links to CP stories that aren't difflinks/permalinks. AFAIK, no difflinks have been removed.TheoryOfPractice (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. The working difflinks are preserved but we have an opportunity to scrub broken ones. We don't lose anything by removing a link that doesn't work. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 17:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We wouldn't lose much by removing working ones that just weren't relevent. But in most cases, they usually are relevent enough. As ToP and I have pointed out, it's mostly the internal in-jokes that have really run their course. 17:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I approve of this conversation and its apparent conclusions. It also would not bother me if the CP-article and no-CP-article boxes slowly went to the great template graveyard in the sea.  20:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should replace the cp template with a more generic one that links to other places as well (ask, creationwiki, etc.), e.g., which would then produce a similar box ("For those living in an alternate reality, here are some "articles" about pagename:" and a list of links). --  Nx  / talk 20:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can only see CP disappearing under the following scenario: 'a shooter, white male, goes and kills gays, Muslims, feminists etc. After being apprehended/his suicide, a check on his computer shows various segments of CP bookmarked. The government investigates if CP does not close for bad coverage after deleting what he has bookmarked. CP is accused of hate speech or something. Fox News martyrs CP and Andy. CP is told to close, which it complies but promises it's readers it will fight it'. ANYWAY, I think that we can always broaden the site. I do not care about CP more than the occasional laugh. I like going after cult leaders and organizations that spring up during moral panics, so I will focus on them and anything else I feel worthy.--Tabris (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @NX, that template/box idea is a good one. It would like a "supra-external link" direct to examples of crazy.  21:17, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding, Tabris? Getting the EVIL FASCIST LIBRUL GUBMINT to persecute him would be like pure crack to Andy.  He's be getting wingnut welfare funds for the defense faster than you can say "Rush Limbaugh". --Gulik (talk) 18:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea of de-CP-ing; I don't like adding ask templates nor Wikisynergy templates. ASK and Wikisynergy are tiny, tiny and not worth the effort. Sterile 22:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I like the cp template as it can quickly link to a first hand account of what the "opposition" supposedly think. The wp one is also massively useful. But I do like the idea of the "super external link" better, perhaps CreationWiki's articles on evolution etc. are more relevant and give better examples than the corresponding CP ones - which are usually just less coherent rehashes of other creationist stuff. 16:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Never said it was a likely scenario. Possibly the start of a new CP there.--Tabris (talk) 02:06, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

freethoughtpedia
Does anyone know anything about these guys? They seem kinda small (really small), but a lot like us. Sterile 22:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * On the recent changes list there seem to be a grand total of 6 edits in the last week. It looks way too anti-religion for me... 22:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can one be too anti-racist? Can one be too anti-homophobia? Can one be too anti-religion? I don't know. Food for thought, anyway. 22:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, and yes. 22:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Fuck, I'll bite--in what ways can one be sufficiently racist and homophobic? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think you can apply the same criteria of anti-religion to anti-racism and homophobia. Sure, they may incorporate the latter two into religion, but I still think anti-religion can go too far. As for homophobia and racism... unacceptable. 23:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PC hasn't even edited there for weeks. Talk about your wiki graveyards...  04:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think she likes me any more after I basically left Liberapedia. 10:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I just had a quick look and it appears that they plagiarised our Poe's Law article. It still has redlinks where ours are blue and they even retained one of our templates, which, of course, is borked.  14:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

The freethinkers have always struck me as being so rantingly anti-religion that "free-thought" doesn't come into it - it's just a kneejerk. They're the kind of people who accuse you of shoving religion down their throats when you mention the bible. Free of religion they may be, but free thinkers they are not. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And one more shot in the Evony Advert Drinking Game! 16:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

It's certainly possible to be too anti-religious. Forcing people to publicly repent isn't healthy behavior for ANY cause, even ESPECIALLY one that claims to be the "good guys". And as the USSR found out, nothing strengthens religious fervor like the sweet, sweet feeling of persecution. --Gulik (talk) 18:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose it's possible to be "too" anything. Too generous, too handsome, too rich.  Sadly I suffer from all of these. --BobNot Jim 20:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can be too anti-racist and anti-homophobic; its the people who interpret any criticism towards a member of a certain group as being motivated by hatred for that group. For example: a black guy is not doing his job well. Boss: 'You're not doing your job well'. Anti-racist:'Racist!' EddyP (talk) 21:27, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that along the lines of the recent trend of considering any and every criticism of Israel to be "anti-semetic"? Although I suspect that's more of a deliberate, cynical overreaction than being honestly overzealous in some cases. --Kels (talk) 21:32, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Anti-Semite!!!!!1111!1!111oneone!! -- 21:39, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

TK in my pub...
I was in a pub last week and noticed an unusual spot of graffiti upon the bathroom window...

The Super Secret Police of Conservapedia are watching us! 11:09, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Would it be disingenuous of me to say that a men's bathroom is exactly the kind of place I'd expect to find TK lurking? --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 12:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just obvious. 12:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But worthy of lulz, surely. 12:15, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We shold block him for being a member of a vandal site. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Again
I was in the same pub again last night! Man, it's creepy now... 10:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

District 9
Anybody seen this yet? Know we don't normally talk films, but when a $30m sci-fi flick, shot in and around Jo'burg with no big name actors, kicks Michael Bey off the top of the US box office, it must be kinda special. Alas, hasn't opened here yet - typical. --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 13:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to check it out tonight, it looks like it has potential.-- 16:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Spill guys all gave it the Better than Sex rating. I'm interested. ENorman (talk) 20:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Its fucking awesome, Peter Jackson produced it and its gold. Ace McWickedModel 500 09:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Questions for the mob
Resurrected from RationalWiki:Saloon_bar/Archive26 I'll try to keep this simple -- Nx  / talk 14:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Should bureaucrats be able to hide a revision with the show/hide button in such a way that only another bureaucrat can see it and restore it?
 * 2) *Currently, if you hide a revision, any sysop can view it. Since basically every user is a sysop, the point is somewhat lost. With this option privacy violations could be hidden so that sysops can't see them.
 * 3) Which users should be able to see a log of bureaucrats hiding revisions from sysops: bureaucrats only, sysops too, registered users, or everyone including BONs?
 * 4) *I'm only asking this question because there is an option, though I believe most people will say open the log to everyone.


 * I assume this came up because of something that happened in the dim and distant past. Can somebody give me a link or a quick precis? SuspectedReplicant (talk) 16:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone posted Karajou's (I think) address and phone number, that's when we installed the extension. I brought this up when someone posted a link to TK's mom. -- Nx  / talk 18:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No comment on the first matter. However, EVERYONE should be able to see what happened, BON's included.  -- 19:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well no argument on everyone being able to see the log. Is the hiding really necessary though? I'm sure that, at the time, people will be able to find the hidden edit, but if I wanted to locate that stuff now I wouldn't know where to look. Besides, given the stupidly large number of 'crats this site has, you aren't really hiding anything all that securely. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 19:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I say leave that option for sysops and 'crats only. Or at least limit it as far as autoconfirmed users goes.  Given some of the problems here, and considering issues of privacy, do we really want cyberstalking to be possible through us?Lord of the Goons (talk) 19:38, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's an example of the log. It's basically the same as what you get when you use the interface as a sysop, only it goes into a different log (I have no idea why they made it that way, the deleted revision is still visible in the article history, so this isn't like oversight where it vanishes without a trace). As for the first option, all it does is add an extra checkbox on the show/hide page titled "Apply these restrictions to administrators and lock this interface". -- Nx  / talk 20:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * See this page for the history of the incident that caused RevisionDelete to be added.
 * I think that both bureaucrats and sysops should have RevisionDelete powers, but other users should not; otherwise we lose the whole reason for having them. 22:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Suggestion: Any implementation should be done after Trent is back so Just in case someone screw things up with newly powers (for them anyways) it would be less of a panic.
 * I am personally indifferent who can supress revisions as long as sysops can view it (it's mostly violation of community standards, so presumably those who follows the rules won't do much with the extra information, and it's easier to see what happened)  23:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be possible for revisions to be deleted such that sysops cannot see them, but the log should note, for all to see, that revisions were removed. The information that is being deleted may indeed be harmful, but I see no reason to hide from anyone that something was deleted. Fedhaji (talk) 07:48, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Important
I am going away for a few weeks on Tuesday. I will not have physical access to the servers for two weeks. More than ever, it is important for people to make sure they are aware of rationalwiki.blogspot.com. This will be always be my primary form of communication if the site is inaccessible. If anyone has any ideas about how to spread the word more effectively about the existence of the blog please feel free to do so. tmtoulouse 19:05, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aaaarrgh! Doomed! We're all doomed! 19:14, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's time to have another whip round and buy him a watchdog timer board for Christmas so he can go away without too much worry. -- 19:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Trent, just leave an intercom message before you leave informing everyone of the blog. 22:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Funny Stuff....
If only because there are not a lot of rap songs that name-check Margaret Sanger. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "I Would Never (Have Sex with You)" should be required watching for all teenage males. Would prevent alotta disappointment to be sure! - Clepper

Fail.
with a goat. That is all. 20:48, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Dunno source" - the source is the evil Cult of Jerboa and their photoshopping lies. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:32, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not fail! That's a zip-lining goat, how can that possibly fail...? 14:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Maus

 * 1) 2 cat has just presented me with a (dead) mouse & is noisily eating it as I type.  01:56, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thought we were about to talk comic books. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 01:59, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Naw! Just nature RED in tooth & claw. 02:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's one of my favorite things about owning a cat. I've never actually seen a mouse here, but on several occasions he's managed to kill a bird. He never fails to present it right in front of my lounge chair.-- 02:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All that's left is a smear of blood and what looks like a mouse sized liver. #1 cat used to bring loads of mice, but didn't kill 'em, just chased 'em around until they died of terror or hid under the fridge. 02:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My old cat used to kill the occasional mice that managed to make it into the house, and then just sort of leave it where it lay. I doubt she ever tried to eat one. --Kels (talk) 02:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the "what to do after you torture it to death" part is bred out, but the "torture" part is still there. Sometimes they eat all but the best bits and bring them to their pet human to make mouse liver omelettes with.  One I had caught a bird and slowly devoured it a yard from where I now sit, when she was done all that was left were some feather tips.  She was then the most contented cat for about 24 hours.  Live food is good food for carnivores.  03:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Evolution at work. 07:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, actually it's artificial selection. But there isn't much of a difference, since "we" are the modern domestic cat's environment.  08:14, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Evolution either way, methinks. - Clepper
 * It is also improving the mouse population, the better mice survive. 09:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, but do you people not see that this is evidence for the existence of God? Cats instinctively know to leave offerings to their deity: you, the human being.  They practice religion the way they know, bringing an offering of a mouse now and then to leave in front of the altar (your easy chair).  NEED VICODIN NOW (talk) 21:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * One of my kitty cats seems to be almost actively vegetarian. He won't eat any sort of raw or cooked meat, but does eat catfood that allegedly is made of meat, but mostly just eats dry food. However, he still has the hunting instinct and will catch all sorts of small furry animals or even birds. He just doesn't really know what to do with them after he's killed them. He's never managed something so daring as a former kitty cat I had years ago who caught a large rabbit and managed to drag it in, headless, and hide it under the sideboard. -- 11:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I had to rescue yet another mouse from my youngest (and most psychopathic) kitteh in the middle of the night. Seriously, if there is an afterlife then when I die I expect all the mice I've saved to have chipped in and bought me a nice watch or something. 10:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Awesome film
District 9. damn good. You'll see. End Transmission. Ace McWickedModel 500 09:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw a trailer for that the other day. Looks most unusul. 10:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What's it about? --Gulik (talk) 01:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out the District 9 tralier on youtube. It one of the best films I have seen in recent memory. Ace McWickedModel 500 01:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wangled an invite to the première here tomorrow night (so will be on best behaviour) - looking forward to it. @Gulik - aliens arrive in Johannesburg, turns out they're refugees and are placed in a refugee camp. Later on, humans get fed up with them and go all apartheid on them. (Ok, that's a brief, bad summary). --Psy - C20H25N3OYou know you want to 16:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Usain Bolt
I was just watching Usain Bolt on Youtube, and one of the commenters put this little gem: ''right.. now he's obviously the fastest person alive...anyone half man/half cheetah hiding around here? c'mon, itd be awesome to﻿ beat him ;) '' - Where is that boy when you need him? Totnesmartin (talk) 10:28, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I caught the race last night on the telly - it was beautiful to watch - I felt kinda sorry for Gay, he runs a superb race, breaks the US national record and still he's a metre behind Bolt. Bob Soles (talk) 10:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And the guy was pretty quick around the Top Gear track too. 13:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely ridiculous, human beings aren't supposed to be able to run that fast. I always end up wondering what track stars would do in other sports. If he can catch a football someone needs to sign him, he'd make young Randy Moss look slow.-- 14:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Half man/half cheetah? Does Aimee Mullins count? --Kels (talk) 15:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That must be CUR's favourite pin-up - all his dreams come true at once! Bob Soles (talk) 15:32, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I ran into a talk she gave at TED (which led to finding another, older one) and she's awesome. It's funny, the cheetah legs she wore for the photo shoot were totally impractical for walking, so she had all sorts of trouble getting around on the shoot. Great result, though. --Kels (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Media termns
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/02/charlie-brooker-new-media-dictionary Some funny stuff. Some terms may even be worth stealing and expanding on as articles. I quite like "PR-reviewed", as in contrast to peer-reviewed. Ben Goldacre brought it up on a very recent blog entry too. I definitely reckon it has something to it. 16:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

WTF
Just...wtf Totnesmartin (talk) 17:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Worrying is the "Ex Transexual" part... is it physically possible to have an operation to become a woman and then have it a second time to become a man again? And "Ex HIV Positive"? Isn't that just HIV in remission or is that not one of "those diseases"... 17:32, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I reckon that's worth stealing and using as an article illustration. I just can't think what. 17:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Bullshit? Faith Healing? ENorman (talk) 20:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not physically impossible to reverse the SRS.. it's just really expensive and you won't really be the same. The reason why doctors sell Sexual Reassignment Surgery as permanent is because you technically won't be able "function" down there again after a reverse surgery.
 * Vaginoplasty takes the penis and morphs it into a penis.. magically--because I was too scared to look at the case studies of it. Same with a vagina (Labiaplasty), they take the labia and "such" (didn't research that part too much) and bippity-boppity-boo.. a penis!
 * Financially speaking, changing a penis into a vagina costs about $50,000 (for the best), then back again would cost around $75,000 (for the best). Penis transformed into a vagina is easier because there's more to "work with". 20:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * First of all a transexual does not necessarily have to have had reassignment surgery, just a change of mind. He's also married "with a woman who has no uterus" not to a woman who has no uterus. And I think it would be theoretically possible for a woman without a uterus to still donate eggs which could be fertilised and implanted in a surrogate. Also, judging by some message-board comments this should have happened last year, yet there doesn't appear to be any other record of it on the ineternet (OK I didn't bother clicking on the second Google search page) apart from the picture. 20:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * @Skittlebucket. It's not just the penis, they usually remove the testes as well. 20:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually it says "married with a woman who had no uterus". Does that mean she's got one now? 21:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * From what I know of it, the common practice is to skin the penis like a banana, toss away most of the insides, invert it into the body to make the vagina, toss the testes away, turn the scrotum into labia, and re-route the nerves. Tends to be very good results.  The other direction, that ain't so easy.  The more "traditional" is to take a skin graft from the arm or leg, make a tube out of that and graft it to where the now-closed vagina used to be, plus the same re-routing of nerves.  Not a great result, overall a bit of a Frankenstein job, no ejaculation of course and usually a pump to get hard.  Better results come from another version where the clitoris is released from the hood and anchoring to hang more freely.  Re-route the urethera, make a new scrotum out of the labia where possible and insert fake balls, and add some hormone therapy which increases the size of the clitoris, and voila.  A smallish and non-ejaculatory penis that gets hard the natural way and generally has better sensitivity, without the huge scarring and suchlike. Either way, nothing a person would go through "on a lark", so I expect this "ex-transsexual" is either lying, or is living a happy life of repression pushed by the church.  Either way, I don't expect there was ever any surgery involved. --Kels (talk) 21:06, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 15:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Uh, that is, I think, a lot more than most of us needed to know about that... 04:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't make it past "skin the penis like a banana". -- 04:20, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a website but it makes no mention of Prophet Isaac. The site doesn't appear to have been updated much since early 2008. 05:13, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is also a USA organisation with the same name but their website is no longer available. However, Google cache gives this gem from their about us page :
 * Who We Are - A sinificant [sic] Christian presence in the third world country is strong in the big cities which leaves the rural areas with very minimal or no Christian influence due to the economy and lack of trained leadership.
 * We seek to establish and help churches develop a significant Christian witness in the rural community which requires a shift in ministry paradigm appropriate for the rural context.
 * 05:20, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

(UD) One thing they missed out on the list of Exes is Ex-parrot. He could be dead. 05:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Pornographie!
And no, it is not just to get your attention.

I have a question for the residential porn experts that bothers me for quite some time now: why does most of the internet assume that German porn is all about pissing and shitting and other disgusting stuff? I`ve been surfing the internet for Porn for about 10 years now, and I don`t see anything especially shitty about our domestic porn. Is it because Germans are said to give a shit about everything? Or do you think we just want to piss of the rest of the world? Nothing but questions...&mdash; Unsigned, by: Gmb / talk / contribs


 * Hmm. My impression of German porn is either the soft stuff with middle-aged guys in lederhosen and hats with feathers in them rolling in the hay with a blond jungfrau with bunches or overly-serious masked (maybe even gas-masked) swingers with rubber and leather fetishes. But then I haven't seen a lot of it. 20:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I assumed it was Russian. Just like the beastiality stuff. (wandering 4chan does too much to your mind). 20:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The fact that Germans love pissing and shitting in their fucking is an incontrovertible truism. Denying this is like that denying the beauty of fall foliage reduces the risk of cancer. Are you against school prayer by any chance? Judging by your other, more ludicrous positions on the state of the art of German pornography, I am 97.5% certain you are. &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 20:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

oh come on, such a wonderfull lead-in and all you can come up with is quotes from the assfly? show some more creativity Gmb (talk) 21:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fuck you bossy bum, you show some more creativity. 75.127.68.98 03:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Whenever Bill uses Emule to download films and he gets a fake pornographic one it frequently seems to involve Germans involved in fairly basic acts. On the other hand I've only got his word for this story from start to finish so there may be some doubts about this data.--Hillary Rodham Clinton (talk) 07:13, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hang on a sec, I didn't know Andy and Hilldog used RationalWiki. As for German porn Gmb, I'm too precious to be interested in that sort of thing... 10:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Cinema/Movies
Just a little query: How often to people go to the movies? The last time I went was in 1962 (Sean Connery/Dr. No). I just haven't got the attention span to sit in one place just watching a film for that length of time. The only films I've seen for ages have been on DVD. Right now I'm flicking between Firefox (3 windows, 17 tabs) and Open Office Writer & the TV is constantly on. My other half is similarly occupied but with a book instead of OOW (she did go to see Titanic!). Am I unusual? 01:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You're typical (ADD for adults is fun, not a disease!). I actually like settling in and watching a complete film (screw movies, they have commercials, whatever).  Last one I saw in a theater was Fargo, IIRC.  But I rent and watch things I own, only pausing for pee or food/drink breaks.  02:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I see a large number of films in the theater, mostly with no cash outlay, since I am on the mailing-lists for those free preview screenings the film distributors put on. 04:09, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Lucky bastid. 05:04, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I go very very rarely (much to chargrin of Ms McWicked) as you cant smoke, I always need to take a piss and when I was a movie reviewer I had to see 2 - 3 a day weekends on end, it really put me off. Although as I have already stated District 9 - awesome. Ace McWickedModel 500 05:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's always been my problem too. About halfway into the movie I start thinking "shit, I need a smoke" and can't fully enjoy the film. I'd say I go once every couple months though.-- 05:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow. Just how many people on this site smoke? It seems to be way above average. I gave up (counts) two and a half years ago. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 05:32, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Poll:  Currently smoke Formerly smoked Never smoked Goat 05:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Further poll for smokers, how many per day?:

 20+ 15 - 20 10 - 15 5 - 10 0 - 5  Not daily Ace McWickedModel 500 05:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC) M
 * I am 6 foot 4 in the old money so after about 30 minutes in those seats my ass is numb and I can't wait to get out. Still, the only movie I ever walked out of was Sunshine. Terrible, terrible film (apologies to those that liked it). Rad McCool (talk) 10:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * NZlanders use cockney rhyming slang? Last movie I saw that sucked arse was the Butterfly Effect. I love that bit in Family Guy... "I got the idea to build a panic room after I saw that movie - you know, the Butterfly Effect? I thought 'wow, this is terrible, I wish I could escape to somewhere where this movie could never find me,' and then-" 10:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

So (on a huge sample size) half of RW users have smoked at some point. I'm sure Schlafly could come up with a statistic on that. Worst film? Well obviously Plan 9 from Outer Space, but that's so bad it's funny. You have to go a long way to beat the Blair Witch Project. I thought that was utterly rubbish. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 14:00, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Been about three years since I've seen a movie in the theatre (went to see Howl's Moving Castle, totally worth it), but coincidentally I'm going to see Ponyo today. For a while before that I went fairly often to the local rep cinema, saw some great stuff, but it's been rare over the past decade for me to go to a main line cinema. Gonna be fun in October though, I'll be volunteering at the Ottawa Animation Festival. --Kels (talk) 14:04, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Me and the wife go to the movies quite frequently, maybe twice a month, not to mention our extensive DVD collection and bitchin home theater. And as far as bad movies go, only two movies need to be considered; American Movie, and the Howling 7.  Howling 7 wins though, because at least American Movie tried to have a plot.  No, I wouldn't recommend anyone ever seeing either of these.   15:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't been since 300. It was OK until the big giant Persian thing walked on and I thought "they have a cave troll." there's one in every film of that type nowadays, going by the trailers. Totnesmartin (talk) 09:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

smoking poll
So, a few people here smoke... but what do you smoke? Totnesmartin (talk) 09:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * B&H Silver to help cope with my mild depression and anxiety. 10:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

That health care bill sure would be nice right about now....
Well, the battle over health care just became a fairly personal one for me. I just found out I have a stage 2-3 case of chronic kidney disease. I'm only 22 so this sucks pretty hard, even if I might've done it to myself. Luckily, I have decent insurance so I'm not totally in the shitter, but things are going to be really tight for a while. A little bit of extra help would go a long way. Hopefully this shit will get sorted out soon, I sure would like to able to afford more than tortillas and velveeta!-- 01:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Fuck dude, sorry to hear that man. Wishing the best though. Ace McWickedModel 500 01:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * EC) That's a bastard, PBM. At 22 y.o. it's specially bad, you expect bits to start breaking down at my age but that sucks. Suggest that you start sounding out blood relatives with working parts ASAP.  01:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know the details about your condition but it obviously doesn't sound good. Best wishes for successful treatment. 02:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't offer anything aside from a "that really sucks man" 02:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hang in there. Sterile 02:18, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Best of luck, and concentrate on keeping that insurance up-to-date and fully paid. And, oh, yeah, seconding the ghoulish "mine your relatives for organs" comment.  02:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That terrible mate. Best of luck, always keep positive about things. 02:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Best wishes, 's'long as you got healthcare you'll be fine. 10:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not the most original statement, but best of luck. 13:43, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And good wishes from me too. RagTop Gone sailing 11:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate that. I should've explained more about it when I mentioned it, I wasn't sure what it was when I first heard it either. It's serious, but it's manageable. There's a strong possibility I'll be on dialysis or in need of a transplant when I'm around 55-60. Though that might not happen at all, only time will tell. Either way there should be plenty of time to life a good life. Still, there will be copious amounts of medication and doctor visits in my future, so Uncle Sam picking up the tab here and there would help a great deal.-- 02:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Good luck with this. I know it might not do any good, but apparently, various liberal groups are trying to stir up people to go to these townhall meetings to counteract the screaming rightwing loonies. You might want to consider attending a few, as a good personal story is worth a thousand pages of statistics. (Planning on going to a local one myself tomorrow.) --Gulik (talk) 03:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's never nice to find out seomthing nasty about one's health. However, you have apparently still got a long life in front of you before you need major stuff. That's 30+ years of medical research. I'm sure that things will have changed enormously by then, who knows what the options will be? 06:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Slightly intrigued by: "even if I might've done it to myself.". 13:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll bite. I was pretty severely addicted to crystal meth for many years. Being basically pure poison, it's extremely hard on just about every part of your body. It may not be the specific cause, but it's undoubtedly a contributing factor.-- 14:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aah! Possibly . 14:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions." :)-- 15:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So, er, do you watch Breaking Bad? And if so, how "authentic" is it when it's not trying to be hilarious?  20:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * On the bright side, at least you're off the crystal meth now, right? 21:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes Lily, I've been off of it for quite some time. Breaking Bad is a fantastic show, Human. It's a remarkably accurate take on the meth world and the people involved with it. Even the funnier stuff is plausible. They must have done some serious research for the show, because everything about it is as close to reality as you can get.-- 23:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks PBM, yeah, I love the show but one always wonders if the "grit" is realistic or Hollywood fantasy. Nice to know is is well done at that level as well.  And glad to hear you kicked the monkey.  00:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Spam?
I received the following email today: forumadmin@richarddawkins.net Reply Follow up message The following is an e-mail sent to you by an administrator of "RichardDawkins.net Forum". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments you find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following address: forumadmin@richarddawkins.net Include this full e-mail (particularly the headers). Message sent to you follows: ~ You have been invited to join www.triniwarez.com It is one of the best sites around to get all your free application downloads, latest movies, games of all sorts, and many other great things. Please make an introduction topic there so you can get a warm welcome from your members! -- Thanks, RDF

is it spam or wot? 01:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "WAREZ" = Piracy! Spam definitely. 01:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, I got two of these. Considering it's from a "forum administrator" I'm guessing old dickie hasn't kept his forum software up to date and some spammers have hijacked an account to send spam. 09:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Should someone let RDnet know? 14:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Got them too, and I can't even remember signing up to the RD forum. 11:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

"When Zombies Attack!: Mathematical Modelling of an Outbreak of Zombie Infection"
I'm.... speechless ... about this. Sterile 02:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll say. There no discussion on previous zombie infection models, I would have asked for a more detailed literature review if I was the editor. 02:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No, on deeper reading I found they said they could find none. Nice to see this important research is being done, we can't have gaps in the literature like that. 03:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Math question
Maybe a tad technical, but I know we have at least a few mathematicians that frequent these parts. I need some help.

I have a set of discrete points on a Cartesian plane and I need to calculate the area swept out underneath these points. Now if this was a function I know you just integrate under the curve, but these are discrete points. My two best guesses so far on what to do are to calculate some polynomial function with n degrees of freedom that meets some arbitrarily small mean square error between the function and the points. Then use that function to calculate the area.

My second idea was to use some Runge-Kuttaesque method where I do a stepwise integration between two points with some arbitrarily small step size, then sum up the area between all the points.

Would either of these be likely to fail? Is there a better, more accepted way to do this? Thanks much for anyone that happens upon this and can provide some insight. tmtoulouse 04:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Without really being to sure exactly what you are trying to do, but based on "if this was a function I know you just integrate under the curve, but these are discrete points", I would say you would need to take the Lebesgue integral. 192.43.227.18 04:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose you are using it for your dissertation/some paper, so if you can't find other people doing it, it all goes down to the justification for whatever method you are using.  21:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

US ‘may take military action’ to liberate Britain from the NHS
Made me laugh. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 05:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (explanatory links for non-Brits:  and ) SuspectedReplicant (talk) 05:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * At least the US gave us ER. Casualty was just a pale imitation and they had to get their babies from the US as well. 06:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, I thought Casualty had been around for way longer than ER? 09:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It has. "Casualty is the longest running emergency medical drama series in the world" according to WP. It started in 1986, compared to 1994 for E.R. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 09:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I demand an equal opportunity to be freed from the tyranny of the Spanish health service Taliban.--BobNot Jim 09:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Bookmarked. That'll go nicely with my daily mash. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

 Obama is believed to have abandoned his plans to adopt the NHS model for American healthcare, even though he has privately commented that the bed-hopping antics of British medics 'sure look like fun'. Class. 10:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's some funny parody, that there is, it is. I like how it actually takes the trouble to be two different jokes wrapped up in one.  20:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah - I didn't know about the Daily Mash. Now bookmarked. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 06:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Could be worse. They could have intercepted the transmission of a couple of episodes of Doctors. 11:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Here, have a bag of LOLs
I'd never heard this before. Have you? --Kels (talk) 15:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Also this from him. 08:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We need a Tim Minchin article. If we're going to have separate articles on every other woomeister and godbotherer out there, then we obviously have room for someone like this. 11:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Fucking crickets!
OK, I was at Scientific evidence for God's existence and I knew those crickets were digital. But I closed it. Now I still here crickets. Well, hell, it's cricket season. Or is Mike Malloy reading Scientific evidence for God's existence while ranting? I once recorded an early version of a song, and you can hear a cricket chirping on the master in the background at the beginning and the end. Meaning the damn insect is deep in the background of the entire song. Never figured out an "easy" way to make the much later, listenable, version incorporate that delightful feature. Except... oh, shit, it's August! Cricket season! I could turn everything off and mike the "current" cricket on a spare track and mix the bastid in! I wonder if I could do that competently, it's not that late, I've only had a few "soul enriching beverages".... 02:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just think, in but a few short months, they will be gone. Summer really has been going fast. I'm already starting to prepare firewood--Tabris (talk) 02:54, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I finally got my truck off its redneck stilts this week. No crickets, more propane... at least it will be spring soon ;)  02:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 11:56 EST, MM namechecks crickets. [[Woo]oooooooo !  03:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Then there's the real cricket. Last Test starts tomorrow (? well, 1000GMT Thursday 20/8). This is serious stuff for us Aussies - revenge for 2005.RagTop Gone sailing 11:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

UFOs
Hehehe "One report, from 1995, describes how two children from Bovingdon, in Hertfordshire, were almost lured onto a helicopter-shaped spacecraft by an alien who 'could walk backwards but made it look like he was walking forwards'.

According to the files: "The translucent creature called to them in a melodic falsetto and was only scared off after a local farmer threatened to report him and his pet monkey to the police."" 08:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Master of the Internet!
Totnesmartin (talk) 09:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Bible translation
Anyone thought about doing a RW re-translation? "Jesus then rebuked the evil spirit, "Shut up, muthafucka..."" 12:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, on second thought. Scratch that, far too much bloody work. 13:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)