RationalWiki talk:All things in moderation/Archive55

2friedeggs
Desysopped and blocked me without community consensus. In general has been disruptive, as their escapades on the Gnosticism page show. I'll be generous and say I don't support a full sysoprevoke for now, but this user clearly needs a bit more than a slap on the wrist. Plutocow (talk) 07:46, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You have a history of outright abusing your sysop privileges, reverting edits on your talk page of complaining about it or otherwise painting you in a negative light, and continue your behavior after unblocking yourself. This is an ongoing issue you have. I warned you multiple times and your reaction is to (yet again) revert my edits I desysop you and your reaction is to create two socks, one in my honor. You do not come across as a particularly pleasant person to cooperate with. Thanks for blocking me yet again as I was typing this, it made me lose my train of thought. I resysoped you because the CS tell me to keep you desysoped the issue would have to be brought here and I just didn't feel like starting a big thing (and to level with you, the same thing happened to me in the past and it sucked). You seem to have different plans. If anything I should not have resysoped you and let someone else decide from the trainwreck they're going to wake up to so that you would calm down.--Spoony (talk) 07:57, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I created one sock, I don't know what gives you the impression that the Yaush asshole could possibly be me. But hey, when I blocked you once after you blocked me like five seperate times, several times interupting what I was doing, I didn't desysop you. You can say all you want about my supposed history abusing rights without substantiating said claim, but you're just pissed that I undid one of your edits. Just drop it while I still have some charitability left, this is getting petty. Plutocow (talk) 08:09, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Go to the sysop section here on your talk page. Apparently this isn't the first time you showed an attitude like this. Telling me to "drop it while im still charitable" is nothing more than a veiled threat. I feel like if this was in real life I'd be talking to someone very exhausting. I blocked you because you were starting an edit war on 3 different pages, one still going on your talk page where I warned you this behavior is not cooperative. And then started another like 10 minutes ago on the Judaism page.--Spoony (talk) 08:22, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You're just as responsible for any edit wars that are going on by continuing to revert. And plus, you had that whole meltdown over the Gnosticism/Heaven pages, so you're not one to talk. And you still aren't demonstrating a pattern beyond me being frustrated with your defenses of trolls. If you dig yourself deeper it will only be your own fault. Plutocow (talk) 08:30, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That literally has nothing to do with this. I don't care about gnosticism. I don't defend known trolls. Telling me im digging myself deeper comes across to me as a veiled threat.--Spoony (talk) 08:32, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If you don't care about Gnosticism, why did you fan the flames of an edit war against five seperate users on the same page? This has just been you and your pet Dominionist against me. It's not a veiled threat, it's just a fact that you are making yourself look incredibly petty. I'm just tired of this and you should probably go to bed. Plutocow (talk) 08:35, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not like Dominionism. Do not call me a dominionist and do not tell me I associate with dominionists. I don't even remember exactly what that was about on the gnosticism page I just revert reversions sometimes. Some people here get a "shoot first ask questions later" mentality because we have a habit of angering quite a few people who come on here to troll as a result. What you do though is continue until you get the last word, there is no good faith in that. You wanna talk about pettiness, making an alt calling me a coward fits the bill. We could add harassment to the list and keep going "no u" to eachother if you like.--Spoony (talk) 08:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Back2theroots is the dominionist I'm referring to, and for someone who supposedly doesn't like dominionists you sure do defend him a lot. Rushing in to defend people when you don't know the situation just amounts to enabling trolls most of the time. Then there was the time when you tried to pass off you as an IP as a seperate user. I called you a coward because you desysopped me then banned me before I had the chance to respond. You took my sysop rights without due process, I didn't take away yours. There is no equivalency between both sides here. Plutocow (talk) 08:45, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to believe he's a dominionist and I'll worry about it when I do. Stop blocking me so I can type. IP? You're just bringing things up that didn't happen. I never passed off an ip as a seperate user. Someone in the past took my sysop rights without due process and it sucked. The guy who did it didn't get in trouble, nor do I believe he should have. That's why I resysopped you. With your blockspam, that might have been a mistake. Quit being a hypocrite.--Spoony (talk) 08:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I desysopped you again because of the blockspam. If I screwed up doing so, fine, I'll take responsibility. I'm done. This is tiring. If I screwed up fine. But this has been very unpleasant. The sock, the warring, the reverting the blockspam it's all pretty annoying. If someone wants to give it back I won't argue. Just stop making things up.--Spoony (talk) 09:02, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You're the one who's a massive hypocrite here, responding to a block which you can easily undo with a removal of rights that I can't easily undo. Plus, you are a moron if you really think User:Yaush is me. And you have a history of socking and edit warring, so you don't get to take the high horse here. Plutocow (talk) 17:05, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh well, congratulations on exhausting all of my goodwill. I support full sysoprevoke now. Plutocow (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps an interaction ban between the two? Andrew5 mobile (talk) 10:38, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Or the mods could review the relevant logs and evaluate the merits (or lack thereof) of this dispute. 12:30, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Creating a sock that's antipathetically named after a fellow user is ill-advised, a form of ad hominem attack. Otherwise, it's hard to evaluate this dispute when User:Back2theroots does not exist, and the links are just the pages as a whole. Bongolian (talk) 16:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This would be the user you are looking for. 17:03, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Bongolian (talk) 18:00, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * For 2friedeggs, give specific links to any disputes you still have. It's better to raise the issue here first before desysopping unless it looks urgent (e.g., a hacked account). I have given Plutocow back Sysop rights. Bongolian (talk) 18:00, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * After a good night's sleep I care much less but making a sock in my honor instead of bringing the issue here really was what made me realize I'm dealing with a talker. I tried to autopatrol the account and not care about the name because I thought it would be funny if "Spoony is a Coward" complained about me on here but I couldn't figure it out so I resysoped their main so they had a voice. My main problem is that they revert their talkpage edits whenever someone tells him not to do something or hides it behind one of those troll boxes. There's no real communication with them until you do something extreme, and at that point you're feeling guilty. The first dessysop was because he kept unbanning himself and edit warring, the second was because of the blockspam as I was trying to answer them on here. Something that really needs to be punished long-term? Nah, but they're gonna be slapped on the wrist firmly so this behavior doesn't happen in the future. I don't really mind if they has their sysop status is back as long has they were humbled a little bit overnight because what I did was a bit more than that anyway.--Spoony (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Making a sock in my honor instead of bringing the issue here"? Really? You do realize that when I'm blocked, I can't exactly edit ATIM on my main account? And I've already told you that several times, and now you're just being dense? You desysoped me the first time because I was undoing your blocks on my account, and did it the second time because I was doing the same thing to you? You do realize how ridiculous that sounds? The least you can do is offer me an apology (and a genuine one, not "I'm sorry but..." or "I'm sorry that you feel that way") (and also, I go by "they" and not "he") Plutocow (talk) 23:11, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * My problem is that there's no real communication when you revert your talk page until something big happens ("It's my talk page" is not an excuse), then you act like you didn't do anything real. I'm not apologizing when I'm not the one who made an antipathetic sock. I don't even need an apology, I just want you to stop doing that. The second time was from blockspam while I was trying to edit here.--Spoony (talk) 23:14, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You're the one who escalated things by desysoping me, so quit trying to pass the buck. And yes, desysoping someone and then blocking them so they can't respond is a cowardly thing to do. Plutocow (talk) 23:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't agree with either of those personally, when are we going to get to the real point: Your talk page. Why do you keep reverting complaints? I really suspect mods think this is so stupid they're letting us to bicker until it escalates again or we come to an understanding.--Spoony (talk) 23:19, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why do you keep spamming my talk page with that? This conversation is ongoing, so what is even the point? How would you feel if I just desysoped you and blocked you without going through any sort of process? Plutocow (talk) 23:21, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It sucks. Thats partially the reason why I desysopped you the first time. I didn't "spam" your talk page, I just want it known you were warned in the past, and if I screwed up so bad I'm sure you would want it known I desysopped you twice anyways so we both win.--Spoony (talk) 23:24, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for at least admitting the name of your sock isn't cool in the block log, see? Progress?--Spoony (talk) 23:27, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is already at ATIM, so there's no point in continuing this crap. Can you just admit that you were unequivocally wrong in desysoping me twice? Plutocow (talk) 23:27, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I genuinely do not know if I even was but you're not giving me a very big sense of guilt right now.--Spoony (talk) 23:29, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Your complete apathy for desysoping someone without trying to bring it to any official channels just makes it clearer to me that sysoprevoking you would be justified. Plutocow (talk) 23:33, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't shut down communication on your talk page. Do not blockspam when people are trying to talk to you. That's my general message. I already said if I screwed up I'll take that responsibility, but that is not necessarily your choice or mine what that would entail. The fact it escalated to a desysop to come here instead of stay on your talk page says a lot to me.--Spoony (talk) 23:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's my talk page, first of all, and if you had an issue you should have brought it here, you do not, do not just desysop someone like that. And "blockspam"? Give me a break, you were doing the same thing to me! And at least you could easily unblock yourself, because I didn't desysop you like a coward! Your entire argument is "it's okay when I do it, but not when you do it" Plutocow (talk) 23:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Someone already told me that above. And the situation was a little different. I was trying to get you to stop edit warring without reason on multiple articles and communicate on your talk page, then you decided to blockspam while I was talking to you here, which erases all of what I am typing. All I see is someone who likes to take potshots. Calling me a coward is nothing but an ad hominem attack, making an account calling me a coward in its name is borderline harassment. And I still tried to get it autopatrolled even though I probably shouldn't have been. All I see is someone who wants blood after their attitude of contempt did not work. I do not know if it mean your talk page gives you the right to revert everything under the sun but it shows bad faith you wanted to do so in the first place.--Spoony (talk) 23:45, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You think I wasn't working on articles as you were blocking me? If calling someone a "coward" is borderline harassment, then so is desysoping and blocking someone without even trying to find a solution. I'd have more respect for you if you at least admitted that desysoping me was wrong, you should have brought it to ATIM instead, and none of my supposed behavior excuses your actions. As a sysop, you are expected to properly go through official channels to resolve disputes, and the fact that you didn't even try renders all of your complaints about me supposedly shutting down communication completely irrelevant. Remember, you're the one in the hotseat, not me. Plutocow (talk) 23:55, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Bongolian already told me above. They wanted to hear my end, and that is my end. Your reaction is to beat a dead horse and claim I'm in deep shit. All I see, again, is someone who wants blood after showing contempt towards both me and anyone who complains to them on their talk page. If you feel my complaints are irrelevant, cool. Why are you here then? Let me complain and let them decide.--Spoony (talk) 00:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If you're continually defending your decision to desysop me as you have above, then it's clear you haven't learned a damn thing. Can you get off you high horse for one second and actually apologize? Yes, wanting an apology is totally the same as wanting blood. Really, I'd have dropped this whole thing long ago if you actually are willing to self-reflect a bit and stop trying to pass the buck. Saying "Bongolian already told me above" is just deflection at this point. Plutocow (talk) 00:06, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologize for what? Desysoping you? You want me to say "I'm sorry Plutocow, I won't do it again"? I am,but you're not making it easy when you're trying to impersonate me.--Spoony (talk) 00:08, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * So your response is to continue to make unsubstantiated accusations of alting. Never mind that the same impersonating troll has been doing the same schtick of impersonating users for weeks now and even did the same shit to me. Just try acting in good faith for once. Plutocow (talk) 00:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You lied to me. You are not allowed to revert your talk page edits, the issue that started this in the first place. Beyond that I made my case, I'm done here.--Spoony (talk) 00:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * And you are not allowed to remove sysop from people. The person you're quoting did the same thing to me, so nice company you've got there. Still, the fact that you continue to edit war over my talkpage despite the fact that the issue is currently being discussed at ATIM. And are we going to ignore that you just made unsubstantiated allegations of alting at me, twice? Plutocow (talk) 00:22, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Am I the only person who thinks a two way iban is necessary? --Andrew5 (talk) 00:18, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No one asked you. The problem is Spoony is allergic to bringing disputes to ATIM to be settled, and whenever it happens he does nothing but repeatedly deflect. An iban would only give that problem to someone else for them to deal with it. Plutocow (talk) 00:22, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * For God's sake. The community standards already cover user talk pages.  Seems relevant: "A user's talk page, like any other talk page on the site, is public and does not belong to the user. However, users are permitted to delete posts from their own talk pages at their discretion, being responsible for any abuse of this permission. Users who believe their comments have been removed unjustifiably can take their case to the Chicken Coop or All Things in Moderation, rather than edit-warring over the removal"; "Talk pages (including user talk as well as article talk pages) and other discussion pages, such as debates or the Saloon bar, are community property. They must not be deleted, nor protected, although they can be archived periodically. Similarly, users should not delete or change another user's comments on a talk or discussion page, with the following exceptions: [obviously vile trolling, posts from banned users, spam, page-breaking edits]".  Cease the edit-warring; it's here now, it's to be handled here now. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒   talk  00:30, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I keep reverting his Talk page back since he's not allowed to remove comments unless it's an obvious troll so I guess I'm a harasser now.--Spoony (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a discussion going on. If you want to add them back, discuss it first. Doing it repeatedly after I told you many times to stop spamming me with notifications is a form of harassment, and it makes it clear you are not operating in good faith. Plutocow (talk) 00:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Resysop me until someone objectively looking at this decides to desysop me. This is an obvious case of hypocrisy and it's not cool.--Spoony (talk) 00:57, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Promise that you will stop edit warring on my talk page and instead discuss the matter here, and I will. Plutocow (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why are you holding my sysop priviledges hostage over something you are not exactly allowed to do in the first place?--Spoony (talk) 00:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Suddenly desysoping becomes a horrible thing when I do it, but when you do it it's completely justifiable. Look, even Serene told you to cut it out with the edit warring. Stop acting like a petulant child. Plutocow (talk) 01:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did you desysop me? Harassment? Edit war? The former didnt happen, the latter was not my blood, if you want me to stop clicking "revert" sure but I don't need to promise you personally anything, the only thing im guilty of is not avoiding you like Nutty told me to.--Spoony (talk) 01:02, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Your response to me telling you to stop edit warring, and that if you continued I would consider it harassment, was "This will be rich". Like, you're basically just concern trolling at this point. Plutocow (talk) 01:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Stop reverting posts that paint you in a bad light.--Spoony (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe I just don't like dealing with concern trolling. Plutocow (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * So in this conversation you used the terms "Dominionist", concern troll, "petulant child..."" any more labels? I'll bear whatever you have to.--Spoony (talk) 01:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * When you don't have an argument, just accuse your opponent of ad hom! Plutocow (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm done arguing
This is getting petty. If he wants the last word he'll get it.--Spoony (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Plutocow
Can someone get them to stop removing my comments on their talk page?--Spoony (talk) 01:16, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have to ask, why are you so obsessed with getting those comments on my talk page in the first place? Everything about them is already being discussed here Plutocow (talk) 01:18, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's annoying when people remove your concerns.--Spoony (talk) 01:19, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * But we're already discussing your concerns. Although because of your bullheadedness at pushing the issue, now the topic has shifted to removing the comments rather than anything in the comments. Plutocow (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Just quit removing things that paint you in a negative light ya dingledorf.--Spoony (talk)
 * And you're doing just that on your own talkpage, so... Plutocow (talk) 01:27, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hanlon's razor is in effect here. I did that by accident and put it back. Just quit removing things that paint you in a negative light ya dingledorf.--Spoony (talk) 01:30, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You only restored part of it. this edit and the one immediately preceding it were not restored. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒   talk  01:34, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops. You can restore it if you want, I dont want to screw up it further.--Spoony (talk) 01:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Stop removing it. I have a right to complain on your page.--Spoony (talk) 01:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * They started on mine now after threatening to desysop me again--Spoony (talk) 02:16, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * They, because you were told by multiple users, including Serene, to stop edit warring on my talkpgae, but apparently it's in one ear and out the other for you. Plutocow (talk) 02:17, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * At any rate at least I have a good look at your character here now, regardless. Threatening to desysop me again is also hypocritical. Do not desysop me again. Do No ifs ands or buts.--Spoony (talk) 02:21, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a difference, because this time multiple other sysops have told you to cool off with your behavior and you didn't listen to any of them. My whole point was your failure to go through official channels, and I'm going through one here, so there's no hypocrisy in that. Meanwhile, yours was that I was stifling communication by removing comments, which is completely hypocritical when you desysoped and blocked me without allowing me the chance to respond. Look at yourself in the mirror for once. Plutocow (talk) 02:25, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No one told me to cool off my behavior, they tried to resolve the edit warring. They're probably just watching and making bets right now.--Spoony (talk) 02:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Stop removing my template on my talk page. I'm not stifling discussion on mine, you are on yours.--Spoony (talk) 02:29, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You know what the first step is to resolving an edit war? It's called, stop fucking edit warring! If a consensus fails to be reached, you only have yourself to blame. Plutocow (talk) 02:30, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If a consensus fails to be reached, it's because everyone thinks this issue is stupid enough for GrammarCommie to give me my sysop rights back as long as I don't do the thing you're still threatening me with.--Spoony (talk) 02:32, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This whole thing just seems petty and childish. Does anyone else think this is petty and childish?  02:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh I know what it looks like, don't worry.--Spoony (talk) 02:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is certainly incredible. This is probably the most posts by the fewest users I have ever seen in ATIM.Buck (talk) 06:07, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm just going to leave this here since the guy who posted it had transphobic trolling in his post. Beyond that I wanna let this fiasco fizzle out.--Spoony (talk) 02:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * , Both of y'all, knock it off.  DO NOT remove sysop unless it's an emergency.  Both of you calm down.  Tempted to block both y'all for a naptime.  02:38, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * 02:55, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * CS covers this open and shut; don't remove talkpage comments unless they're open rule violations. A user complaining they got blocked isn't a rule violation. Throw it under a trollcollapse if you don't like it, throw it in a page archive if you don't want to bother with it being there for a bit. For the conflict between 2fried and Pluto, I echo Cory below. -- Techpriest (talk) 07:19, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Temporary Restraining order
For the time being, both of you are to remain off of each other's talk pages. Do not make inflammatory comments directed at each other from your own talk pages (or any other pages for that matter), none of the childish "nana booboo you can't touch me cuz daddy won't let you leave your room". Do not block each other or mess with each other's user rights. Regarding what you can do on your own talk pages, for the time being, collapsing is allowed, deletion is not. The no "nana booboo" rule still applies to anything you title the collapse. As for USHist, a 9 hour block is fine, more if another Mod agrees, less if another Mod says "meh". His comment could be interpreted as harassment. Do not alter his block length or block third parties as part of a proxy fight. 03:04, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Reasonable enough. Also, cut out the ad hominem attacks (sock naming, dingledorf): it's contrary to RationalWiki:Community Standards (Civility, specifically). Bongolian (talk) 03:13, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Definitely the right course of action. Spud (talk) 11:52, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Vacation
Will be on Vay Cay for a few days. Will monitor from phone, but not going to be on 24/7 17:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)