RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive27

RSS
I'm trying to set up RSS feeds to MY Yahoo but it won't accept the page's URL. If I click the webfeed icon it takes me to an option to add the page to my bookmarks. It's already in my bookmarks, I want it on my rss feeder which won't accept it. Bloody computers. Totnesmartin 17:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Aspiring musician and entertainer Michael Jackson
Just read that Jackson is dead 22:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So does this mean Thriller can be danced to be real zombies now? ENorman 22:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As the crown prince of rock and pop, my coronation will be next Tuesday. Barbecue after. -- 22:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if his concerts will be cancelled or they'll just go ahead. Matt oblong 23:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The swarm of people trying to edit the article on wikipedia has broken it. The amount of traffic needed to bring down WP must be tremendous. tmtoulouse 23:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Its no wonder he died, they wouldn't let him sap the life force of children anymore. They'll make tupperware out of him I bet. Ace McWickedi9 23:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No sweat--he was all plastic above the neck already.--WJThomas 23:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Can someone please explain to me why Andy et al mocking deaths for political reasons is shameful and disgusting, but people here mocking death for nothing but their own cheap laughs is just fine? Really?  00:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because Andy sits there on his high horse and blames liberal values etc. Because when there is a tragic murder Andy will blame athiesm. When there is a school shooting Andy will blame public schools. When there is a death, RatWikians express some black humour but dont exploit it to prove a point. Ace McWickedi9 00:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Was thinking the same thing Chuck. I know he was probably a child molester and just an all around creepy guy, but making jokes within hours of his death is really disgusting. You can rationalize it however it helps, but it's pretty unkind regardless. --PitchBlackMind 00:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a big difference between black humor (us) and taking advantage of or pleasure in someone's death for personal gain (Andy). --WJThomas 00:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That argument would work if they were taking advantage of it. As far as I can see they're being pretty respectful about it. The only pleasure being taken between the two sites is happening right here. --PitchBlackMind 01:35, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We also lost Farrah Faucet today. Now there was a real loss--Nate River 03:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * People die. Famous people die.  Give them a moment of silence before slagging them, is all.  03:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

More than 300 edits to his Wikipedia article in the past 12 hours. Not to mention the talk page plus an entire 114kB archive of it. --Just passing by 08:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Two paramedics arrive at Michael Jackson's to answer the 911 call,
 * the first asks the second what they should try first.
 * To which the second replies, "well I don't know about you but I reckon the ferris wheel".
 * Crundy 09:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * @Crundy - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHEHHEHEHEHEHHOHOHOHOHO love it. Ace McWickedi9 11:22, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Get ready for a barrage of anger from Human and Chuck. 10:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of jokes, how about a Conservapedia related one?
 * My daughter's new school uniform is really quite slutty. That's just one of the benefits of home-schooling. Crundy 10:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * One man's humour is another man's faux pas. We can argue all day long about what's appropriate and try to append some sort of objective, universal rule to it, but we'll never succeed. 194.6.79.200 11:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My wife thinks it will be great to hear all of the stories coming out of the Neverland Ranch now that Mike's not there to say "NO! Don't go in that room!" The Foxhole Atheist 14:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Podcasts and other interesting audio from the internet
Sooo I'm starting to get fed up of listening to just music while I'm on the treadmill at the gym. It would be good to load a few 'news' audio files, even if just radio talkshow kinda things, on my mp3 player.... anyone here know of any good sources? Who here listens to what? 194.6.79.200 11:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * News Quiz on BBC4. Make a point of dl'ing it every Saturday. Alternates with The Now Show, but I prefer the News Quiz. Fred McCauley rules! and Sandy I-have-a-funny-Danish-surname. --PsyGremlinWhut? 16:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Many USian leftie radio talkers make podcasts of their shows available. Stephanie Miller's show is very funny and well-prepared, if she offers a pc; Mike Malloy's a great ranter (gotta pay, but it's cheap), Thom Hartman is good... Don't know if Air America offers them, but Ron Reagan has a nice "single topic at a time" show.  21:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You can rarely go wrong with This American Life, which often attains the level of pure genius.  If you haven't heard the one about the squirrel which set fire to the curtains, you need to.  And just as many as are funny, many more are deeply poignant, thoughtful and revealing of the human condition.   Joe Frank is a another radio genius - hilarious monologues, utterly bizarre shaggy dog stories (the drunk, barely clothed and acid tripping Everest expedition comes to mind), and strange spirituality/Buddhist lecture things which I like the least of his.  DogP Marmite Patrol 23:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys! If anyone else is interested, I also found some free podcasts from new scientist . 194.6.79.200 12:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're into such things, Stuart McLean's Vinyl Cafe is always good for a listen. McLean has a way with characterization in a very Leacock-esque sort of way. --Kels 23:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

IRAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!111!!
So, I've currently having a little contest with my friends- guess the chance of a revolution occurring in Iran based on their fraudulent election results, and I thought it might be wise to get some input from you guys. Based on what I've read, I'm going with about 25-30 percent chance of a regime change, based on the massive protests (biggest since the Islamic revolution), government crackdowns, and lack of movement to correct the election result (i.e. so Mousavi wins) Place your bets! 16:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nil. 16:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going with .001%. For every successful overthrow of a totalitarian regime, there's 10 that get put down and history forgets about. I don't think this one is happening. --PitchBlackMind 17:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Especially as the protests look non-violent. While non-violent protests can certainly turn violent, it would take a large number of armed protestors to overthrow the heavily-fortified regime, something I don't see happening.   17:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I found this quite interesting: Benford's law 18:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Peaceful demonstrations have brought about regime change in the Czech Republic and East Germany - but only because troops in those countries disobeyed orders to fire on their own people. I am less optimistic that this will happen in Iran. I think the current regime will stay - but then my predictions are usually phail on a stick. Totnesmartin 22:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * India. But those were imperialists that just wanted to go home that they overthrew.  01:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Iranians threw out the Shah within living memory. I give it about 30%. But here's hoping... --Gulik 02:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was there, the Royal Navy evacuated us to Dubai. The Iranians have a long history of trying to control internal dissent with secret police and I think that they'll manage to stifle it this time. But everybody said that before the Shah was forced out. 09:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Blog piece on the priorities of homeschoolers
This doesn't seem WIGO blogosphere appropriate, but this is amusing. (Via pharyngula,....) Sterile 00:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It's amicus curiae time!
It's amicus curiae time~! Or has this already been noted and posted? It's nothing truly spectacular, but video game fans will find some amusement in lines like Nintendo learned the message that “violence sells video games to children...” 71.193.206.116 01:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Beyond its ridiculous content and shrill alarmism, it's an utterly atrocious brief. It contains grammar errors, it is poorly reasoned, structurally convoluted, poorly backed up by case law....I know Andy has exhibited poor writing abilities on his wiki, but you would think someone would interject upon his behalf and edited anything he tries to submit to the US Supreme Court. Anyway, amicus curiae briefs are the story of Andy's law "career." I am hard pressed to find much else he has done other than to submit these meaningless documents on random cases he has had nothing to do with. tmtoulouse 01:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why play make-believe video games when you can banhammer real people on Conservapedia? 10:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Buff it up
I would like to put out a general call for anyone interested to improve!TM our pseudoscience article. As on of our "pillars" its kinda thin. tmtoulouse 05:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Went for a walk and videoed some goats
Totnesmartin 21:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

And I have no idea why that didn't embed. Totnesmartin 21:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Goats make me happy. That brown and white guy's got nice goaticles. Thanks for sharing. 22:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)  PS since we've been on a youtube kick lately I added the template to the quickedit table below.
 * I'm surprised a pissed off farmer didn't come running out and screaming "What are you doing? Get away from my goats!" 11:04, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was on a public footpath. Mind you a couple of months ago I did get a pissed off farmer ranting at me for recording chicken noises coming from his factory barn. He even called the police. Totnesmartin 11:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Something to look forward to in the Autumn
Creation Ministries International will have a lovely and almost certainly balanced and unbiased doc on Darwin coming out in September. DogP Marmite Patrol 22:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't that be spring? 22:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OH SNAP!! FIGHT!!!1! 23:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of September would actually be summer (or winter, for southlanders).--WJThomas 23:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone else find it depressing that CMI actually had a million dollars to pour in to this waste of perfectly good film stock? Next time I hear PJR bitch about how creationists never get research funding, remind me to point this out. -- 12:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Weird brain is weird
I just played an album but skipped one track. Afterwards the tune in my head is the skipped track. Hey brain, I didn't want that one! Totnesmartin 11:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Back in the old analogue days of cassettes, even with compilations, when I heard a track on the radio my mind would always go immediately to the next track that I had on tape. 12:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't hear a 70's Queen track without mentally following it with the next track on Queen's Greatest Hits. Totnesmartin 12:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it all depends which album your mind was imprinted with. 12:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Andy and Harold Camping
I came across a radio station owned by Harold Camping (he believes the rapture will start in 2011 or something) the other day. You would not believe how much like Andy he is. Uses a form of media to pass his understanding of the bible and religion. They even sound alike.

--TimS 15:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)''
 * When I saw the title of this section I thought it was about another of those childrens' gay life-style acceptance books. 16:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought it was a reference to an old junior-high joke: "If you woke up one day to find your pants off and your ass greased, and no memory of what had happened, would you tell anyone?"  "Well, no, of course not..."  "Great!  Wanna go camping?"--WJThomas 16:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should make a bet? We will convert to Christianity on new year 2011, and if the rapture does not happen then on new year's day 2012 we all go back to ourselves and he has to "convert" to atheism? Provided you can stand going to church every sunday and not using johnnies (not all bad) 20:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So that's what Harold Camping looks like? Somehow I always imagined him looking more like Jabba the Hutt.  Secret Squirrel 22:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is Harold Camping different from Other Kinds of Camping? Does it involve Motorized Trailers?  08:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Jamie Glazov's United in Hate
I saw this book at my local Barnes & Nobel.

http://www.amazon.com/United-Hate-Romance-Tyranny-Terror/dp/1935071602

And I felt that was quite claim to make on the front cover of his book. So I as you folks here, does his argument hold any water?


 * Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought - Looks like TerryH or JPatt's bookshelf. 22:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is quite the lineup indeed! 22:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Screen break
I've done my elbow in somehow, and I'm going to have to take a break from computering for 24 hours (or even longer?). No RW, WP, LJ, FB, YT, Flickr or Last.fm until...when?  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA . See y'all sometime :( Totnesmartin 14:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ohhhhhhh noooooooooo, not Fin-rand! That means no self harming / pleasure too. Shame. Get better soon, I enjoy your goat videos. 15:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The Killers
I saw them yesterday in Hyde Park. They were amazing. 13:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fuck The Killers. I've never seen a band ride a unique sound without actually producing any music of substance as well as them.  All style, no substance.   13:38, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sir, you bite your tongue! Shutup! 13:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All flash and no message; all sound and fury, signifying nothing; all revved up, no where to go. That is The Killers.   13:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * "Z3ro", I've skimmed through your contributions and seen that they are 90% talk and 10% content. As such, you are defenitely an atheist liberal dick, and therefore your slagging off of the Killers is not credible. Please, open your mind to the possibility that the Killers rock. Godspeed! 13:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to support my fellow numerical friend in saying they are shit. 14:39, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't really give a shit. Everyone has their own musical tastes. Some people listen to Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco, and I still can't figure out why. 15:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm at an age where I'm not the least bit surprised that I've never heard of theez guys. (Takes quick listen...)...Sounds like your basic '80s British pop music. For the record, checking out the current Billboard Top 10, I can also note that I've never heard of Keri Hilson, Pitbull, Lady Gaga, Sean Kensington, Jeremiah, Shinedown, or Young Money.--WJThomas 16:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm also willing to bet that 12 months from now, not one of the above mentioned groups will be in existence. sadly, we live in a time of manufactured pop stars, singing generic rubbish and they're only as good as the Next Big Thing. There's not a chance any of these will 30 years from now, like Depeche Mode are (ok, even though the new album is crap and they should have given up long ago).
 * /goes back to reading KLF's "How to make a No 1 hit". --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * yeah, "we live in a time of manufactured pop stars singing generic rubbish". Not like the old days, when we had Lipps Inc., El Debarge, New Kids on the Block, and Menudo.  Those bands had integrity and staying power, dammit! --Kels 17:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Josh, I'm with you. Saw the killers live at the NEC. They are one of the best live acts around at the moment, regardless of whether you like the music or not, they put on a hell of a show. 20:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of bands I had forgotten about, Sunny Day Real Estate got back together, apparently? There needs to be somebody whose job it is to tell me these things.168.215.249.51 17:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgot to log in!WilhelmJunker 17:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

ANOTHER DEAD CELEB
TV INFOMERCIAL SPOKESDUDE BILLY MAYS WAS FOUND DEAD IN HIS HOME THIS MORNING.--WJThomas 21:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * AS SOMEONE I KNOW ONLINE SAID, HEAVEN JUST GOT A LOT LOUDER. --Kels 17:46, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * THIS SECTION MUST BE TYPED IN ALL CAPSLOCK IN HONOR OF MR. MAYS. HE LIVED ABOUT 5 MINUTES FROM MY HOUSE, WAS A BIG MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY, AND ALL-AROUND BADASS. THIS HONESTLY AFFECTS ME MORE THAN MICHAEL JACKSON, MCMAHON, OR FARAH FAWCETT DYING THIS WEEK. ENORMAN 20:47, 28 JUNE 2009 (UTC)
 * BY USING ALL CAPS HERE, ARE WE IMITATING THE UNCYCLOPEDIA ARTICLE ON MR. MAYS? 20:55, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know what WE'RE SHOUTING ABOUT. LOUD NOISES  20:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * JUST CAPS FOR MAYS? GOOD JOB IT WASN'T  BRIAN BLESSED . Totnesmartin 21:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * IT NEEDS TO BE EVEN LOUDER!!!!  21:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WHAT? BRIAN BLESSED IS DEAD? WHEN? HE WAS GREAT IN Z-CARS 22:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

TRUTH BE TOLD, I FEEL RATHER BAD ABOUT BM'S DEATH, BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE MY FAULT. ARM&HAMMER HAS BEEN RUNNING COMMERCIALS LATELY FEATURING BILLY MAYS, AND A FEW DAYS AGO I DROPPED THEM AN EMAIL SAYING I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT SUCH A RESPECTABLE PRODUCT WOULD SINK SO LOW AS TO USE A SHRILL SHILL LIKE BILLY MAYS, AND I WOULDN'T USE THEIR PRODUCT AGAIN UNTIL THEY GOT RID OF HIM. BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, I ONLY MEANT THAT I WANTED THEM TO FIRE HIM, NOT KILL HIM.--WJThomas 22:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I JUST WANT TO SEE MY SIG IN GIANT SIZE LETTERS. 23:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) YEAH, HE'S FROM THE PITTSBURGH AREA, SO THE LOCAL NEWS HAS BEEN INTERVIEWING HIS FRIENDS AND FAMILY. APPARENTLY HE WAS A HUGE JESUS FREAK. WHICHEVER. I REALLY ENJOYED 'PITCHMEN'. 14:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * HE WAS BY FAR THE GREATEST PITCH MAN OF OUR TIME. FORGET CHUCK NORRIS AND HIS BOWFLEX, AND FORGET VINCE AND THE SHAMWOW. ONE DOSE OF BILLY MAYS TO A PRODUCT, AND IT'S AS GOOD AS NEW! AND AS AN ADDED BONUS, YOU GET THE SATISFACTION THAT WHATEVER HE SOLD WAS JUST AS GOOD AS ADVERTISED! BILLY MAYS, YOU WILL BE MISSED! HERE'S HOW TO REMEMBER!-- CodyH 22:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Cults in weird places
Inspired by a previous saloon bar thread, I picked up Worms: Armageddon again and was pleasantly surprised that wormnet was still going. However, being something like a decade since the game was released, things have changed a bit since I last played. Now all the casual gamers are long gone, and the place has turned in to a freaky cult. There are traditional weapons schemes that must be used religiously, arcane rules that one must follow above and beyond those the game enforces, little ceremonies that must be performed upon joining a game or you get kicked. I shit you not. I can't even play, since these rules are unwritten, and none of the faithful will take the time to explain them to an unbeliever. It's a bit sad that I can't enjoy blowing the crap out of another team of cutesy little worms. Funny how these little cults get started, and how quickly. -- 18:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Worms: Armageddon was one of those games that could be extremely enjoyable while being utterly, completely frustrating at the same time. I only had the PSX version, though, so I never got into the Wormnet craze. I came from a less-than-well-to-do family, so as the online gaming boom reached it's first frenzied iterations, I was still scrambling around on the home systems. It would take me a while before I got into MMOs, and by then the casual gaming had been boiled down to morons and hardcores, which kept me out of it. -- CodyH 22:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe it was my thread that inspired this, I was talking about how I have the demo version of Worms 2. I never got into MMOs, preferring to just blow shit up on Grand Theft Auto on my PS2, but I may look in to getting Worms Armageddon when I get my new laptop (soon hopefully). 11:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ooooooooooh! I've been playing WA for 9 years, so I've seen first-hand these cults form and dominate the game. You might find this site i wrote helpful for some scheme guides, and this wiki which another prominent member of the community wrote. Yeah, the online community is very difficult to communicate with - they're pretty intolerant of newbies. If you guys want to be shown around a few fun crazy schemes (or some regular and challenging schemes) leave a message on User:Runderful and we can set some games up! 194.6.79.200 12:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Communicating about RationalWiki off RationalWiki
I would like to find a place to communicate random information about the site, particularly if there are server problems, software problems, or other issues, that does not rely on the server actually running. The problem is not that there is a shortage of such venues, but that there are too many such places. Anyone have any preferences about what would work and what they would not want to see? For example, I will not under any circumstances ever log in to Facebook again. I was thinking of getting the keys for the RW twitter page maybe? tmtoulouse 19:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Twitter is a good option, since people who don't have an account there can still view the page. --PitchBlackMind 19:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Blogger is probably a better option, you can set up a subdomain of RW (status.rationalwiki.com, to be unoriginal about it) to point at the blog, that way people don't have to remember some arcane address if RW has demised. -- 19:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But if the server is crashed, like happened the other day with the power supply, the subdomain would be crashed as well right? tmtoulouse 19:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't host your own DNS do you? That would be a bad thing. -- 19:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * http://twitter.com/RationalWiki ain't obscure. 19:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah true, I could do it through the DNS, but yeah, I could do the same thing with any of the options, twitter included. Eh, I don't really care what we use, twitter just looked really simple. tmtoulouse 19:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Twitter is definitely the most simple, it's already created and it's a very easy address to remember. If you can't find it you're probably too smashed to be using the computer anyway. --PitchBlackMind 19:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, you can't do it with any service. The host server has to know to serve some particular file for domain foo.bar.com. (Well, ok, there's SRV records, but only some browsers support wide area DNS-SD.) However, blogger lets you configure these things. -- 19:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You can have the Twitter keys if you want. If you install something like TwitterFox and follow RW then you get the info automatically popping up from your status bar. I think it would be a good use for it. Also if your whole connection was down for some reason you could upload a tweet from your mobile. 19:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Twitter to me isnt a web based communication tool. Twitter is what I do without any breakfast whisky. In saying that though, I'll never have a twitter account so it doesnt really matter. Why did I even post again? Ace McWickedi9 20:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Please incorporate the acronym "SDG" into this somehow. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Please also to be remembering that some of us are now too old to be considered cool kids anymore, and thus barred from using twitter by order of the management. -- 20:16, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said, I could care less what I use, it just needs to be one thing that we all know so everyone knows where to go for the info. tmtoulouse 20:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Why dont we start a wiki? Ace McWickedi9 20:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Seconded. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hell yea, we can call it RationalWikiWiki.......oh snap......tmtoulouse 20:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If there was a wiki about RationalWiki, I think I'd know about it... &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

We can give it a catchy name like www.thewikithatisallaboutrationalwikianditsissues.com. Ace McWickedi9 20:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

(UI) One idea is to use aSoK (a user talk page or subpage, say). Another is the IRC channel. The wiki idea could be interesting - a free one at wikia.com or whatever it's called? The hard part will be that we will all have to know in advance where to go, without having a place here to check if we forgot to bookmark it. 20:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Why is it you people are forgetting our motto? The first rule of RationalWiki is: You don't talk about Rationalwiki

There you go. 20:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest a phone tree. Trent calls Huw and Ace, and they call two people, and they call two people... &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:44, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That would require giving Ace responsibility. Bad idea.   20:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, Ace is responsible! Ace just dislikes talking on the phone as his voice makes men and woman weak at the knees. Ace McWickedi9 20:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Then Ace can use a teletypewriter service. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:53, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or we could use the internet. They have internet on computers now. --127․0․0․1 20:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you guys heard of this new internet? Its the inner netting on the inside of swimming trunks. But yeah, AoSK is a good idea. Ace McWickedi9 20:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, we could use Skype. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 20:46, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, no. BBS! BBS! Get yer modems out for the lads. Also, Emperor old bean, you should know the first rule of RW is "You must be at least this tall to use the assquote generator." -- 20:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * So Stunteddwarf can't use it?  20:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

One advantage to using aSoK is that many of us already know where it is. I also forgot to mention using a mailing list, the good part about that is if we put it, say, on the welcome template or something, once someone joins they don't have to "remember where to go when RW is down". They'll get the likely email from Trent saying what's up, or from his Mom telling us we're on our own... 21:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Eh, I veto aSoK, I have no desire to piggy back upon that project or be involved in anyway. A mailing list might work but I prefer things to be more open to anyone at any time member or not. Hence my suggestion of using twitter. tmtoulouse 21:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

How about a Google Groups? That way, everyone can join, it would be like a forum not supported by Trent's server, AND we can call it the RationalWiki Special Discussion Group! Brilliant idea, if I do say so myself! 21:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * (ECx2)I can see the logic in using aSoK, but not everyone visits there all the time and shouln't we ask PJR rather than just seconding his site as our backup noticeboard? Also with regards to email I am aware that some people use a secondary account for their communications online and don't always check it as often as their main account. Finally, we are assuming that Trent always has internet access. What if there is a power outage, or his broadband connection is cut, or he's hauled off to the police station to answer charges of defamation against Denyse O'Leary? 21:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I second Google groups. It is free (I think) and ridiculously easy to set up if it's like Google pages.  It's probably a bit clunky, but who cares?  Sterile 21:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

You know who should run our Twitter channel? Marcus Cicero. He'd be perfect. --Kels 22:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And CUR, don't forget CUR. I wonder how a storehouse of cheetahs is getting on? I hope the blackjack tables and brothels he's installing aren't too expensive. -- 22:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah i would like to know if CUR got a wiki off the ground. Ace McWickedi9 22:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Google groups is a good idea, as what Ghengis says is true about users using a different email account from their main one (as I only recently realised that my real name was entailed in my real account title and then changed it in case any of you ever wanted to kill me). As for Arthropleura, just email him and ask. Or ask him here. I'm sure he's probably lurking like Terry Koeckritz on the WIGO CP page. 11:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Further thoughts
Okay, what I am looking for is an easy way to disseminate relevant information to RW users even if the server is down, I also think some level of two way communication is going to be important. After reviewing twitter and how it works I am less inclined to use it since it doesn't seem very good about allowing people to respond.

I am not very thrilled about anything that requires making new accounts, new passwords or that is private and not openly accessible and usable by any lurker/bunch of numbers or CP sysops. Which is why I am not really thrilled with the idea of a mailing list. Google groups also seems needlessly complex, and really, the point is not to create something else that everyone has to follow on a daily basis. We have the wiki and forums to communicate, the only time we would need an offsite communications spot is if something were wrong with the server. A google/groups/forum seems excessive and restrictive for what we need.

I don't want to parasitize another wiki like ASoK, not the least of because we would be relying on them being around long term. I would also like to keep it focused.

So with all that in mind, I am thinking what I am essentially describing is a "blog." The few times we had long planned outages we setup temporary shop and akjeldson's blog and Caius' blog and it seemed to work well. Jeeves points out that we can setup a subdomain of RW to point to the blog, thus limiting what people have to remember. tmtoulouse 17:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Grand Theft Conservapedia
All this talk of video games between RW and CP recently, I decided to have a mosey over to Conservapedia's Grand Theft Auto article. I'm a big fan of it myself, which explains my incredibly liberal viewpoint. Anyhoo... "[GTA] encourages the player to perform various crimes ranging from speeding to serial murder[1]." The reference links to a net article about Grand Theft Auto 4 and reads "As Bellic [the protagonist the player controls], players can hijack cars, earn cash for criminal activities, flee from police, drive drunk, kill innocent bystanders and patronize strip clubs." I haven't played this one yet but NOW I WANT TO! It sounds AWESOME! 11:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes you do. It is a fantastic game.  Be sure to watch the television in your safehouse, as the shows and commercials shown are hilarious (especially the Pisswasser commercial).   12:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, my (part-time) job pays me a pittance and I'm gonna spending about 2 months pay on holiday next week. I think I may well save up and blow it all on a PS3 soon though. 12:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * GTA4 is awesome. But most people will get Bellic pissed and drive around because it's funny as hell rather than "cool, I'm breaking the lawz!!!1". 13:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * PS3? Go with the XBox 360; far superior platform, and you get to support the evil empire.   13:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It was the get pissed and drive thing that's attracted me to it. GTA SA is brilliant, but that's the one thing that I felt was missing: you can't drink on it. 15:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Strangely, you can't just drink in GTAIV. You only get drunk as part of interaction with friends or dates.  They also hyped the negative (not that there are any positive) aspects to driving drunk.  The driving itself is near impossible and the police have a special drunk radar.  No matter how slow or well you are driving, they will instantly come after you.  Far from what CP would have you think, GTAIV handles drunk driving very responsibly.  I always just end up getting a cab in the game, which was probably the developer's intent.  16:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...
I just realised there's a Daft Punk song called "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger". This makes me smile and think of 🇰🇪. 16:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't that the one they did with Kanye West?  16:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Kanye used some of the track and remixed it. That song's been out for a while, around 2K or before then. The main difference between the song and 🇰🇪 is that the song is awesome, while the other is not. -- CodyH 17:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Limey/Yank make-up
Given that this site is basically dedicated to CP, I'm surprised there are so many brits here (I'm one too). You guys should do a census, it would be interesting. 82.16.194.88 14:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, but it's because we subscribe to that nasty liberal multi-culturism that scares the bejeezus out of narrow-minded bigots like Terry. (Welsh ex-pat here b.t.w.) --PsyGremlinWhut? 15:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As you will know, modern-day Britain is much less religious than the USA and like much of Europe our politics is mixed market capitalism/socialism. So when Conservapedia started to get noticed after Andy's publicity drive in March 2007 a lot of Brits felt challenged to tackle his ultra-conservative, Bibical literalist POV, feeling incredulous that this crazy stuff still existed. Also articles like the Pacific Northwest Arboreal Octopus encouraged people to have their own bit of fun by inserting parody and mockery. Owing to their inherent inward looking POV of conservative America and lacking any sysops with knowledge of the rest of the world it was possible for people (mainly Brits because of our underlying anarchic attitude to authority) to add their own spoof articles and wind up the fundies engage in debate with these odd people. We found common ground with those of a more liberal disposition who lived in the USA because we felt that this stuff needs to be stopped from spreading. I haven't done any counts but I would hazard a guess that the Atlantic divides us pretty much down the middle. 15:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We had a vote/register thingy a month or two ago in the Saloon Bar (or maybe WIGO CP?) about how we all pronounce WIGO, and we all wrote our nationalities there. Mostly British and American, some Irish, some mainland Europeans and a few Aussies and NZealanders. CPhobia prob spread south of the hemisphere for the same reasons Genghis sez it spread to Britain. 15:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I remember it. But can't remember where it is. I don't know what search terms would even work to find it, but it doesn't appear to be in the Saloon Bar archives. 18:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This one? 18:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that one. Good memories, got the whole community involved and everything! 10:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * See, most people, when spurting their opinions and points of view on teh interwebs and have an international hate following, would think "Hmm, perhaps there's something wrong with my ideaoligy". But not Andy. No no, everyone else in the whole world is nuts, and he is a beacon of rational and reasonable thinking. 20:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mmm... bacon... 12:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx for that Super, I've now had a bacon sarnie. Mmm. 14:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're quite welcome. My lunch was delicious. I spent a good hour and a half weeding out my front garden and then had some Mac n' Cheese. Luv-er-ly. 16:07, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Bad Science
Looking on Amazon for a link to Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science I noticed that there is a free downloadable chapter that wan't included in the first edition and can be viewed here. 15:28, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that's the one due to him being sued over it, the publishers got a bit iffy with it and decided to cut it. Once the suit was finished, he offered it up as a free download. I think it might be on badscience.net too. 13:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is, but some people may have missed it. 13:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I strongly urge everyone to read it - as a reminder of what we're up against. Silver Sloth 14:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's shocking; the guy ought to be arraigned for murder. This message brought to you by: respond and marmalade 14:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just seen on BBC News24 that Bad Science is shortlisted for the Samuel Johnson prize for non-fiction. This book is a great read and fits RW's view point to a T. I recommend it to everyone here. 18:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't win despite being the bookies favourite to do so. 11:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Wasted Away Again in Margaritaville
Ok, I'm typing while slightly drunk, which is against my rules, but this is a bar, so I think I'm good. Anyway, I would just like to say, nothing like watching the girl you were forming a relationship with, but then dumped you for religious reasons openly hit on another guy like two days later when there's just the three of you involved in the situation. Now I remember why I just stopped caring about relationships and such..... I think from now on, I stick to booze and stand up comedy. Thank you for listening, if anyone is buying drinks, I prefer Vodka and Witch Hazel.... Hey, where'd that little fucker CUR go, I need a bartender. 06:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse me, did you lose this shaker of salt? Ace McWickedi9 07:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You know Ace, some people claim there's a woman to blame, but I know..... It's my own damn fault. 07:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * God damn fucking hell Chuck, enough of that down-trodden talk. You haven't done anything wrong so I wont hear of it! Let the bitch loose, you did you dash and naught came from it. These things are signs my friend. If it didn't work now, it won't work later. Her loss my friend, her loss. Ace McWickedi9 07:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the sentiment Ace. I'm not really that upset about the whole relationship thing... It's really more a "you set rules about not getting attached or involved for a reason dumbass" type of self anger.  It's not really that big of a deal.  07:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The twerp wasn't allowed up late enough to serve drinks at this hour anyway. I think his parents made him quit his bartender job due to the company it led him to keep?  Anyway, have a gin and hydrogen peroxide on me.  06:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll pass out and wake up in the hospital.  06:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, let me add an extra bit to that.... Gotta love that same girl calling to apologize for behavior... Even though you're pretty sure it's gonna happen again... Another drink!!! 06:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Brutal, seriously. Have a couple shots on me. Last week I was at a bar chatting up this girl for three hours and we were really hitting it off, she was nearly perfect and seemed into me. Then of course she casually mentions she has a boyfriend. I would've preferred being kicked in the groin right when we began talking over that. --PitchBlackMind 06:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All the "nearly perfect" ones have a boyfriend. Every once in a while, rarely even, it's you.   06:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I always make a special point of not mentioning my wife, even at the end. 07:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sir Chuck, I know almost exactly how you feel. Except imagine going out with the girl for two and a half years before and then breaking up because of college. 11:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Exceptionally hot, intelligent, interesting girls don't stay single for more than a nanosecond. You usually have to take a little ticket with a number on, like when buying cheese at the supermarket. If they do seem to be perfect and claim to be single, then either they have walked into your life straight from a bust-up, or something is seriously wrong. Perhaps a scammer? Beware, you will wake up the next morning with your plasma screen gone! 13:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Noooeeesss!!! Not the plasma!!!11!  13:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Ok, new reason I hate being a liberal. The girl sends me some texts messages, and as much as I really want to let her have it, just haul off and scream everything I want to, I can't bring myself to do it. Instead, I find myself being polite and decent.... I really wish I was a conservative so I could just be a dick. 19:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Being a dick transcends the political spectrum, you can just do it man. --PitchBlackMind 20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just tell her without screaming how you feel about what she's done. That's (kinda) worked for me in the past. 13:02, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Internet Personality Disorders
I thought this article on cracked.com would entertain all, especially seeing as we have had a few of these around here. Now I am going to check this thread every 30 seconds to make sure you all reply. 13:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FUCK YOU YOU COMMUNIST FUCKTARD! 13:54, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What? No more comments? But my dog's just died and I'm really upset. Sorry I didn't read much of no.2, too busy staring at the equations on that blackboard. 13:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not funny, my best friend was just raped after being paralyzed in an accident. Please post lots of cute kitten pictures kthxbye 14:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Here you can have this kitten Cat.jpg, it is the only one I have got. 14:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but unfortunately both my parents have just been run over by a steamroller. I'll need a lot more sympathy and kitten pictures now. 14:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just pick one. 14:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This post would have been soooo much better if you'd written "every 30 seconds" instead of "ever 30 seconds" *sigh* --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I will edit it on his behalf then. Time to get back to playing games.   14:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FUCK YOU YOU COMMUNIST FUCKTARD! That was my witty retort. MINE!! MINE!! *sob* You just did that because you don't like me, didn't you? Even though I'm dying of the Dreaded Lurgy... as is my wife, aunt, grandma and very cute kitten. --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd just like to say that as I have a slightly sore elbow, sympathy would be welcome but really any attention from you would help validate my existence (and perhaps give me the colin). And K61824, that second phrase wasn't a complete sentence you communist fucktard! Did I get'em all? Totnesmartin 15:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, is the little diddums suffering? Poor little Totnesmartin. Shall I kiss it better? On second thoughts I'll just pray for you. "Please Lord Goat, make Totnesmartin shut up about his frickin' elbow." Better now? 19:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. Get well soon. 19:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I hate the admit this, but I'm pretty much the guy who explodes for no reason in real life. Though it takes months to happen, not hours or days. I have a really really long fuse but it's connected to a gigantic bomb; I'll let a ton of shit go for months and then one day, I'll get cut off in traffic and jump out my car at the next stoplight to scream at the other person. It's a good thing it isn't easy to buy a gun in Louisiana. Oh wait. --PitchBlackMind 17:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That sounds like Ed Norton's monologue in Fight Club where he freaks out his boss. "This buttoned down, Oxford psycho might just snap and stalk from office to office with a gas powered, semi-automatic carbine rifle, pumping round after round into colleagues and co-workers... This might be someone you've known for years. Someone very, very close to you." 16:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Possible article
I have just finished reading The Men Who Stare at Goats; would this be worthy of a RWifyed article? Of course, the title lends itself to all sorts of goat-related jokes... 16:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a pretty cool book. I think some of it's contents have been mentioned in an RW article somewhere before. I'm quite interested to see what the film will be like. Either fantastic or appalling. 17:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They're making a _film_ out of that?! A documentary, I hope.  (That guy's previous book: "THEM: Adventures with Extremists" was also quite fun for me.) --Gulik 22:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The Conspiracy Files
Good looking programme on BBC2 at the moment, will be on iPlayer later if anyone can get it. Looking into conspiracies and why most of them are utter bunk. Currently it's going through stuff around 7/7 bombings, I wasn't aware that the conspiracy theories were as bad as some of the 9/11 Truth Movement stuff, but they really are. 20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I watched it last night. It was quite disturbing. A guy from Ireland who believes he is the messiah created "7/7 Ripple Effect", which appears to be a no-too-badly-made video where he has combined together a lot of coincidences and lies from the media to make it look like the whole thing was a set up. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who believe it (still, even though the whole video has been debunked), including (worryingly) an Imam in a Birmingham mosque who shows the video to everyone, which can't be helping the Muslim community's trust in the authorities. Anyone who's good at full analysis fancy giving this a once over? 07:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's on the iPlayer now. Worth a watch. One of my favorites is that 7/7RE claims that the presence of a van for a demolition company in the background of the media photos of the bus bomb show that the explosives were provided by a third party. It's a shame they didn't do their research, as the company in question used diamond-drill vibration shattering techniques to demolish small structures. They don't have an explosives licence, and have never handled explosives before. 07:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Posted without additional comment
01:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I want a comment. Why should I watch it? 01:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You probably shouldn't. But we have an article somewhere related and if someone wants to like this over there, please do so.   01:21, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Fun Penn & Teller vs. creationism vids and other stuffs
Just stumbled on clips from a first season episode of Bullshit wherein Penn & Teller take on Gish and others. There are also some other great (and funny) clips for your late night viewing pleasure. Please to enjoy, friends. 03:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

J-Witnesses, part 2
I was lounging around today playing some of that James Bond game, when I hear the dogs going off at the back door. I head back that way, and see a green van pulled up that I have never seen before, and two people I never talked to before. Due to the fact the baby chicks were on the back porch, I go out to meet the both of them. We briefly chat about the shape of the world, and my thoughts on how it could get better. My response was "I do believe this world can get much better than it already is, but it will take everyone laying aside their individual differances and petty disputes and coming together as human beings."

Then, "Well, you know the bible, as the Word of Jehovah, agrees with what you say."

At this point, quite a couple retorts come into my mind, from the violence of that mythological flood, that ol' god telling two of Arrons sons to kill any stranger who comes near, and the genocide of the Egyptians, et all, but instead, I opt for, "I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe in a god, nor do I believe the bible is a literal word of that god."

We briefly discuss religion, she asks if I always held this belief. My response was honestly, "Yes, once I did. My personal perspective changed, and to me, belief in God is illogical. However, as I said earlier, it takes a laying aside of individual differences to make this world a better place. I don't believe in God, you do. Live and let live, have a good day, ma'am."

The older one looked like she was about to say something else, closed her mouth, and instead said, "Thank you for your time, have a good day."

So overall, an enoyable theistic discussion. 14:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Rational-tan?
I've just seen this at Wikipedia. Now, first question, when did Wikipedia turn this level of batshit crazy and second, does anyone think Rational-tan is a good idea? 18:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Goat-tan, jerboa-tan and ferret-tan. 19:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ought that not to be a Western anthropomorphic cartoon mascot, since we are mostly debating Western religious/philosophical concepts? Perhaps the Greek personification of wisdom, Sophia? 19:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, if it has to be Greek, how about Pan-tan? 19:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bad choice of Gods; I do not judge this to be a Dionysian Wiki. I would prefer Odin myself, obviously (the old fellow has aided our cause more than any of us know), but since Greek philosophy is often cited as the bedrock for a secular world-view, I thought a figure out of Greek philosophy might be more palatable. 19:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Socra-tan? Platan? Anaximan-tan? Not pythagoras (too mystical). Totnesmartin 20:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Uncyclopedia has Conservape-tan. I'm surprised we haven't, ahem, borrowed it. Totnesmartin 20:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think our mascot should be a unibrowed-crosseyed-two-tailed sperm cell chewing tobacco with a piece of hay sticking out of the corner of his mouth. Jism-tan  20:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What about a piece of wooden shelving floating the sea - plank-tan? Totnesmartin 20:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * First: It's a manga-ish chick in so-called "maid garments". What's batshit crazy about it?  Second:  What are we having, a goat-headed dude?  wait, that'll make it look like FreeBSD.  20:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a bit batshit because Wikipedia is usually quite serious and fairly dry, not usually ran by a bunch of Japophiles. 20:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Fairly dry? It's bloody tedious! I've virtually given up on it, just watch a few articles/projects I care about. I've made just a single factual contribution more than a sentence long since last year. Totnesmartin 08:49, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd thought a lot about that before, and think it's a great idea (it's what turned me into a full-time troper after all).
 * She could also have a lab coat, a big head (visible brain optional), Einstein hair and a goat sidekick. Also, we'd need a drawing artist, so that'd be Kels. 22:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You think I'm gonna draw that, you can just take down your "Rational" shingle right now. --Kels 17:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * She needs to be carrying a can of spraypaint or a monkey-wrench. Just to scare the CP guys. --Gulik 23:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * So RW finally meets the OS-Tan version of Wikipedia. Allow me to explain. OS-Tan's were one very lonely otaku's drawings of various Operating Systems given form in the shape of schoolgirls, which became massively popular due to circulation via futaba and 4chan. By a rule, they dress in cosplay [swimsuits, maids, school uniform, etc.] and are separated by major releases of commercial OS. Some of the more popular are the ones for OSX [IMac], Windows XP, and Windows Vista. Wikipe-tan [as some fans call her, according to ED] is one of the few based off a popular website instead of an OS. And, Yes, Conservape-tan does exist...dressed in a brown smock, holding a bible and yelling at 'heathen' children.


 * And before anyone asks, i've been watching the internet since 56K was the model standard. As humanity expands into the information traverse, our inhibition, rational action and self control are cast aside, leaving naked Id and Ego to created whatever the heck it wishes to create in most cases. Thus, the rise of Trolls, Flame Wars, Furries, and Internet Rule #34. A sad, sad world we live in...especially Rule #34. -- CodyH 17:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When 56K was standard, that is nothing to boast about. I used to have a top of the line 14.4K, before that I had one which you had to flick between upload and download. It's upload was 300 and download I think it was 1.2K (I'll find it and upload a picture). 12:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey now. Certain philosophers have actually argued that Rule #34 is the pinnacle of human creativity. show some respect. --Kels 17:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I find myself simultaneously shocked, amazed, and humbled. You, sir, are a Formidable Opponent. -- CodyH 00:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not believing in rule #34 until somebody shows me 4-dimensional porn. 07:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Rule 34 only applies to what people can imagine; no human mind can conceive of what four dimensions would look like, thus, such porn (while undeniably hot) need not exist for rule 34 to be true.WilhelmJunker 13:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Three-Dimensional Flash files that run for a specified amount of time. I've always understood Time to be the 4th dimension, so there you go. And no, I will not post a link here. I'd prefer not to be banned, thank you very much. -- CodyH 12:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have a policy against posting porn, it is just nobody ever does it, pretty much an unspoken consensus. Ace's pictures are more funny than anything. 12:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, but a fourth (spatial) dimension can be conceived (granted, it's hard as fuck), and there must be many string theorists with dirty thoughts out there, so... 21:07, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated note
Does anyone know of a way to ID an MP3 file which I grabbed off the internet and which has no ID3 tags at all? I tried wp:MusicBrainz Picard, but it wasn't successful. (Not really important, just being curious....) --127․0․0․1 18:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In windows (are you a windows victim?) click properties, then "advanced" and there's a bunch of blank spaces to fill in. Totnesmartin 18:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I wasn't clear: What I'm trying to do is to figure out the info that goes into those blank spaces. --127․0․0․1 18:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Some software uses the Gracenote database to automatically fill in the details. 19:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can always just Google a line from the song's lyrics and it will direct to that info. Unless it's an instrumental piece. --PitchBlackMind 19:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's exactly the problem :) Know of any Linux software to query the Gracenote database? --127․0․0․1 19:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya got me there. I know it works with iTunes & Winamp but I have no idea about Linux software. 19:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've sometimes had to resort to looking up the album on wikipedia or last.fm, and typing the stuff inmanually. It's a real pain for a 25-track album. Totnesmartin 09:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh and I think only Artist and Track title are necessary - the rest isn't that important (and you can make up amusing genres). Totnesmartin 09:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is, how to figure out what to look up, since there is no info in the file to begin with. --127․0․0․1 10:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can see how that would present a problem. Make the whole lot up? Play it to some friends and hope they know? Totnesmartin 14:17, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Over here (UK) there used to be a phone number you could play a tune to & it would text you the tune/song's details. There's probably a site that'll do the same. Google found Tunatic 14:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In the FAQ of that site, it says to use MusicBrainz for MP3s.... which was the first thing I tried (see my first post). Maybe that tune is just too obscure....--127․0․0․1 15:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * upload a track here :) 15:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would, but that would likely be a copyright violation...... --127․0․0․1 15:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Offsite communication redux
You can read in the early thread why I settled on a blog style form for communication. After much hemming and hawing over what to use, I think it will serve best. Particularly in a worst case scenario where the site is down for several days and back and forth communication between me, you and each other will be important.

So without further meta here is the site:

http://rationalwiki.blogspot.com/

It is in the best interest of everyone to probably bookmark this and spread the word as best we can. This is not a blog in the traditional sense, as I am in now way planning to make frequent updates to it or anything of the sort. But I will try and put up there any reasons the site might be inaccessible and why (such as backup scripts, reboots, etc.). If the site goes down like it did recently with the dieing power supply I will be sure to let everyone know whats going on there. And finally, it will serve as port during major site upgrades, moves, etc. tmtoulouse 19:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Good choice, a blog is easy to bookmark and access. I like the first post descriptive stuff - glad to see you got the fireproof box! Oh, and spling era: "...primary technical administrator for RaionalWiki and...".  Now, how do we effortlessly make sure "everyone" knows to bookmark it?  Add it to the welcome template?  00:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Assistance/advice
received this: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=A1=D1=82=D0=BE=D1=80=D1=96=D0=BD=D0=BA=D1=83=20=D0=BF=D1=80=D0=BE=D0=B5=D0=BA=D1=82=D1=83=20=C2=AB=D0=92=D1=96=D0=BA=D1=96=D0=BF=D0=B5=D0=B4=D1=96=D1=8F=C2=BB=20=D0=9E=D0=B1=D0=B3=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=BD=D1=8F=20=D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D1=81=D1=82=D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=87=D0=B0:TheresaWilson=20=D0=B1=D1=83=D0=BB=D0=BE=20=D1=81=D1=82=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=BE=20=D0=BA=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D1=81=D1=82=D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D1=87=D0=B5=D0=BC=20Turzh?=‏ From: 	WikiAdmin (wiki@wikimedia.org) Medium riskYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as junk Sent: 	Wed 7/01/09 5:42 PM To: 	TheresaWilson (XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) [my "Exing out"]

TheresaWilson, 17:20, 1 липня 2009 сторінка проекту «Вікіпедія» Обговорення користувача:TheresaWilson була створено користувачем Turzh, див. http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B0:TheresaWilson, щоб переглянути поточну версію. Це нова сторінка. Короткий опис змін: Створена сторінка: --~ Звернутися до користувача, що редагував: ел. пошта: http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0:EmailUser/Turzh вікі: http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%87:Turzh Не буде подальшого сповіщення в разі нових змін, якщо Ви не відвідуєте цю сторінку. Ви могли також повторно встановити прапори сповіщення для всіх сторінок у вашому списку спостереження. Система сповіщення Вікіпедії -- Змінити налаштування вашого списку спостереження можна на http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0:Watchlist/edit Зворотний зв'язок та допомога: http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B0:%D0%97%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82

Any advice appreciated. 19:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If I were you I would go out...I'd have sex with strange men...I'd have sex with basketball players. I'd have sex with Greeks...men from Greece. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 19:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Greek, I thought it was Russian (& I stopped doing sex with men years ago) Oh, I can't reply to it: the reply addy comes up as :reply@not possible) 19:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) You obviously don't know our Toast very well. Toasty - if no-one comes up with an explanation beforehand I'll ask "my" secretary tomorrow, she's Ukrainian. 19:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Modern Russian doesn't use "i". Shame Nx is gone, he knew Cryllic allegedly. 19:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Babelfish unhelpfully gives for Russian to English:

Not Budde [podalshogo] [spov]і[shchennya] into [raz]і of [novikh] [zm]і[n], [yakshcho] Of [vi] not to [v]і[dv]і[du]є[te] to [tsyu] to [stor]і[nku]. [Vi] could [takozh] repeatedly to [vstanoviti] [prapori] of [spov]і[shchennya] for [vs]і[kh] of [stor]і[nok] in to the [vashomu] list [sposterezhennya]. System of [spov]і[shchennya] Of [v]і[k]і[ped]ії Sterile 20:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It probably does have something to do with this guy, but how to e-mail user... Sterile 20:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not Russian guys! Seems to be Ukrainian, which would also match the uk.wikipedia.org URL that shows up in the message. Going by the Google translator, I'd say it's a notification that a message was posted to your talk page on the Ukrainian Wikipedia. Now I have no idea why you'd have an account there in the first place. --127․0․0․1 20:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah thanks:Íve got one of those things that logs you in all over for one logon. I'll go & looksee. 20:07, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (bein' very parochial i'd thought uk→United Kingdom [[image:Laughing.gif]] 20:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * (stop ecing me) It's the boilerplate "someone has edited your talk page" email from wikipedia. User:Turzh added --~ to your talk page on the Ukrainian wiki. Most likely you visited the Ukrainian wiki and the new global account feature created an account for you there (when you log in to a wikimedia wiki, it places a cookie on your computer, and all other wikimedia wikis pick it up it and log you in/create an account for you automatically. It's called SUL), Turzh saw the entry in the new user log, and welcomed you. 89.134.223.11 20:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * 16:24, 1 July 2009 TheresaWilson (Talk | contribs) Account created automatically ‎


 * You stop ecing me! TWICE!!! Looks like that's it (I don't think I've ever been there!)  20:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I've thanked them for the welcome & declined the invite to edit. (All in English of course [[image:Laughing.gif]]) 20:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Got another email telling me about that edit too. [[image:Th unsure.gif]]. This could become a lovely correspondence. 08:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I got one too, and wrote a reply in the most tortuous English i could manage. Totnesmartin 14:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Another one bites the dust
So farewell then, Mrs. Slocombe. Who's going to look after your pussy now that you've gone to the top floor? 10:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you free, Mr. Humphries?  12:59, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Very sad. Did I mention that I was Mollie Sugden's bridesmaid? I don't like to talk about it too much, but I was Mollie Sugden's bridesmaid. 13:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was surprised and saddened to see that Wendy Richard (Miss Brahms) had passed this year as well.  15:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I Need A Little Help
My English professor assigned us to find an example of an ineffective implicit argument (i.e., a cartoon, a photo, a poem, etc.). I am personally dumbfounded. Would one of Ken's bullfighting pictures qualify? Does anyone have any good snarky ones I could steal? Thanks in advance. The Foxhole Atheist 11:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There must be some porn you can use somewhere. Pr0n is always the answer. 13:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure any of the anti evilution pics would work, if I understand what your Prof considers "implicit." The Darwin is Hitler one comes to mind.
 * The prof considers it to be an implicit argument if it conveys a message without coming right out and saying it, such as a poster of a traffic-choked highway with a caption along the lines of "Where are you in this picture?" as a message from the Department of Public Transportation. The Hitwin picture is a great idea though... As far as effectiveness goes, it is composed entirely of Photoshop and utter fail. Thanks! The Foxhole Atheist 14:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Would something like the Exxon-Mobil executive pay entry in CP's G.W.Bush article be applicable? You could quote it from the Stephanie Simon article as it is no longer on the page. 14:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Plenty of examples in advertising - e.g. any of those cheesy ads that heavily imply that if you buy their shitty product (deodrant, grey hair colour restorer, European lager, a new car, whatever) then you will instantly be more attractive to the opposite sex. I guess it depends whether you measure the "effectiveness" of these images at a personal level or on society as a whole, taking account of widespread gullibility & the fact that these kind of ads probably do shift a fair few units.   23:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Alternet
I feel somewhat restrained from many of the stories on Alternet, being a Brit. But there's one or two good ones that might be worth a comment from an American. Abstinence leads to more unprotected sex; A group of paleontologist look round the Creation "Museum"; Public schools under attack: ''from the military!; there's more every day. Good site. 19:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks for the tips. That's Eric Alterman's site, right?  Writes for the Nation, I used to hear him on some talk radio shows, good guy.  01:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

What's your Game?
With Andy's quest to rid the world of violent video games, I was wondering what kind go games we here at RW play. I play Ace combat and other flying games and Devil May Cry mostly. I suck at FPS...so very, very badly:(--Nate River 02:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I play mean tricks on people who are not as intelligent as I am. Ace McWickedi9 02:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My favorite games are the wp:Geneforge series. I find it entertaining to play each of the sects against one another, enjoying the subtle political manipulations as I grow more and more powerful, eventually becoming STRONGER THAN ALL OF THEM! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!  A fitting game for Darth Sidious, don't you think?   02:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a mixed fan, liking RPGs (not as much as the level-grinding is starting to get on my nerves at some points), tactics, platformers, and stealth games. Not as much traditional FPS games (I'll start up TF2 again when I get my new computer). Right now I'm playing the first MGS game and FFXII ENorman 03:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Just remember: If there are 10 versions of final fantasy, just create subsections in one article, mm'kay?  03:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I am playing Battlefield Heroes (FPS) these days. Other interests include various Japanese GalGames(Porno/dating sims), RPGs (although I obsessively challenge the decisions of the protagonists), RTS (not the new ones, stuff older than or at Command & Conquer Generals:Zero Hour) and FPS (Team fortress 2, Left 4 dead, Battlefield 2142).  I suck at most of them though, so don't count on it.   03:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * RTS (Starcraft, Warcraft, C&C) are my favorites. I still play WC3 on occasion and that game came out when I was a sophomore in high school. Other than that, I enjoy real time action RPGs. Those are about all I play now. I got burned out on turn-based RPGS and FPS'. --PitchBlackMind 04:17, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The only thing I play is Civilization on a DS and Brain Training. My wife and several other females I know enjoy the Brain Training packs. But these are hardly "video" games. 05:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mostly RPGs as a rule, but I also play a lot of Action games. Right now I'm playing Dynasty Warriors, it's fun to just to stab mofos every now and then.  06:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty much everything, but I particularly like RPGs (specially Final Fantasies). Also, I've played Cave Story perhaps a bit too much. 11:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I go through phases of games - sometimes I'll spending weeks playing one game and weeks playing another. @ Ghengis, Civilization II and III are brilliant, aren't they? Atm I'm playing Tony Hawk's American Wasteland and at other times I play Scarface The World Is Yours and GTA San Andreas. 11:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything from the folks at Bethesda Softworks, such as Fallout 3 or any of the Elder Scrolls series. There is just so much to do in those games!   12:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sim City 4, The Sims and Jems Bond Games. 12:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm currently playing Mirror's Edge, and The Sims 3. Oh, that reminds me of a joke: I was playing The Sims the other day and decided to create myself. It's so annoying, I keep pissing myself, constantly need food, cry because I smell so bad and can't even make friends, let alone get a wife. Probably because I spend too much time playing The Sims. 13:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Am I the only person here that rocks FPS? Easily my favorite type of game. Oh, and right now I'm loving Fight Night Round 4. 13:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I used to play BF:2142 a lot. I used to get kicked off CounterStrike servers all the time because they'd always have friendly fire off and I have a bit of a trigger finger, as well as an inability to tell each team apart :\ 13:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. I still think we should have a rationalwiki poker club. I have the server software all running and waiting. Should I make a page for it for people to register? 13:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As nice as it would be, I think we are already distracted enough away from the mission for that.  14:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been playing Fallout 3 since Christmas Day, 2008. SRSLY. I also received Fable II in the same package, but I have yet to remove the wrapper. I can't wait for the Mothership Zeta DLC to round out my collection. I am also salivating over the news that Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout 4 are already in production or soon-to-be-released and I indeed have no life. Thank you. The Foxhole Atheist 19:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Genetics
Has a gene for online game playing been discovered & if so is it gender linked? I have no interest in them at all. 03:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's called the Y chromosome. 03:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mine must be broken. OK, I do play OPERATION from time to time, but usually only 2 or 3 times.  03:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's largely a nurturing or neutering thing. A large portion of those people aren't getting laid as often as it requires.   04:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It has a lot to do with when you were born I think. Video games were around my entire life, not playing them wasn't an option. --PitchBlackMind 04:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Point! PBM. I well remember "Pong" (or was it "Ping"?) 04:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (Pong came out when I was in my late 20s I think) 04:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I always wondered why they named a videogame after the smell of a fart. 06:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Did someone say fart? I think I could take over as the resident annoying person. 11:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

A bit late to the party, but I'm back to playing WoW again (an undead warrior and Tauren hunter, thanks for asking), after about a year away from it. Lots of fun, now that I'm getting a bit more into the whole crafting/selling angle and I've got a friend to play with. And I like to play Phoenix Wright on the bus once in a while. At this point, that's about it, but as with most diversions subject to sudden, radical change without notice. --Kels 19:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a Deathknight and warlock, but nowhere near as accomplished as my girlfriend (6 level 80s at last count), so that whole Y chromosome thing seems more of a guideline than rule Silvermute 15:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Punk suggestions


I'm creating a playlist of short, fast, angry punk songs, and what's pictured is what I have so far. Any punk rockers here (Aboriginal Noise?) have any suggestions of songs less than 2 minutes in the same vein as these? 17:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * One i've found pretty good [if short] was 'The Man I Killed' by NOFX. Also, if you want insanely long, try 'The Decline', clocking in at just under 19 minutes. -- CodyH 17:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Decline has always been the only NOFX song I ever cared much for. It's fantastic. --PitchBlackMind 17:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the list, but if I may suggest Short Music for Short People, a compilation released by Fat Wreck Chords consisting of 101 bands, 101 songs, and all of them are less than 30 seconds. There are some really hardcore tunes on there, and if you don't like the song, just wait about 5 seconds after you realize you don't like it.  The next one will be on.  As far as bands you may want to check out, Dirty Rotten Imbeciles are good and angry (and quick), and The Queers, a band I saw on Monday Saturday, played about 35 songs in the hour they were on stage.  If you like indistinguishable lyrics, I'd suggest Anal Cunt, who pack about 50 songs on each CD.  Can't understand a word they say, but songs like I Got and Office Job For The Sole Purpose of Harassing You paints the picture quite well.   17:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna download that NoFX song. As for Anal Cunt, I will look up them (geddit?) I've just downloaded Dead Kennedys Live at the Deaf Club, and I have to say they're playing quite a bit slower than I thought, which is unusual for them. I'm only up to track 4 Man With the Dogs though. 19:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Look into Boston Not LA, an old LP I have with about 20-ish short Boston punk examples. Might suit you, I dunno.  00:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Short Music for Short People is pretty incredible. Two great Dead Kennedy songs are Holiday in Cambodia (a classic) and their cover of "Viva Las Vegas."  It is maybe the best cover song ever since Shatner sang "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."  Aboriginal is right about the Queers- really good, although the only song of theirs that I remember is "Ursula finally has tits."  The Sex Pistols are also classic.  For some good albums of punk covers, check out Me First and the Gimme Gimmes.  Also check out Dropkick Murphys.  Corry 00:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A good punk band from Boston is The Freeze, who I believe was on the LP that Human referenced. Me First and the Gimme Gimmes is an offshoot of several bands, including Fat Mike from NoFX, and all they do is covers.  Each album is set up by genre (easy listening, country, show tunes, etc.) except their live album, recorded at some kid's bar-mitzvah.  Dropkick Murphys (who I saw on Monday) is incredible, but not short.  They are one of the few punk outfits that employs bagpipes, mandolins, pennywhistles, and banjos, but nonetheless are ri-god-damn-diculous.  You may also want to check out The Casualties.   02:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * First off, get rid of that Sum 41 crap! I refuse to acknowledge them as punk (they are pop!).  Second, for songs under 2:00, I suggest "Coffee Mug" by The Decendants (only 30 seconds) as well as "Bleed" by Blitz and "Burn" by Rancid.  JFA is another good band that makes most of their songs under 2:00, and the Dead Kennedys' song "Short Songs" is another good one.  If you want music that is (a little) over 2:00, hit me up on my talk page.  Heck, if you want anything punk, hit me up there.The Goonie 1 03:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * More names for your list:  The Wipers; The Ruts; Stiff Little Fingers; anything by Jim Thirlwell, better known as Foetus, You've Got Foetus On Your Breath, Scraping Foetus Off The Wheel, etc; Crass - and ditch those pop kings of the ripoff Sum 41 and Green Day, fast, if you want your list to have any respect.   DogP Marmite Patrol 03:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Avail yourself of "New World Order" by Defiance, Ohio and "Brave as a Noun" and "Little Prince" by Andrew Jackson Jihad. That is, if you know what's good for you.WilhelmJunker 04:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify to the punk dissidents here: I DO NOT REGARD GREEN DAY OR SUM 41 AS PUNK, but I still like them, and the songs by them I have here fit in with the fast punk genre. Aboriginal Noise, I love Dropkick Murphys (I be half-Irish yaknow?!) and their cover of Fields of Athenry is amazing. I just d/l'd the Dead Kennedys album Live @ the Deaf Club and have Fresh Fruit, and d/l'd Pull My Strings. Corry if you look on my talk page you'll see me und a few other editors quoting Holiday in Cambodia - amazing song. Thanks everyone. 10:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Ramones, Dead Kennedys, and Descendents I know and like. The rest of that list makes me feel very old. :)  Anyway here's some to check out: Minor Threat ("I Don't Want To Hear It"), Bad Brains, Channel 3 (CH3 - a few free downloads here http://www.chthree.com/av.html), and anything from Black Flag's "Damaged" album, and you may find more of what you're looking for. I'm showing my age here, I know...who woulda thunk us old coots would one day be reminscing about the good old days of Minor Threat the way our parents reminisced about Freddy Cannon... Secret Squirrel 23:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of the other day when I heard Crazy Train play at a ball game, and a guy was asking his son who the singer was. The kid said "Guns and Roses?"  Dad replied "No, try again..." "Is it Ozzy?"  Hilarious- this was the stuff that I was supposed to be afraid of when I was a kid.  Of course, Elvis scared the hell out of everybody back in his day.  Corry 20:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Dont forget Hand grenades and All I want by The Offspring. If you can get DUI, well worth the listen.--Nate River 02:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Inside jokes...
I'm working on an article listing all our inside jokes regarding Conservapedia's insanity for new users to become accustomed to it. It's still in my sandbox, so I'd like suggestions on the talk page of jokes which I've missed, then when I move it into the mainspace we can all edit it. So basically, I'm asking for Conservapedia related jokes which i've missed! Thanks a lot! 18:48, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not mainspace, if you move it, move to Conservapedia: space... 19:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * We could use it to update the Conservapedia:Newcomer's Guide, once we clear out the vanity-cruft. 23:29, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno - explaining in-jokes seems a bit like taking the fun out of them. The thing with in-jokes & memes is that they're esoteric, & they crop up fairly organically within communities through shared humour about certain things, rather that being written up in one place.  Plus jokes aren't really funny when somebody explains to you why they're funny.  You pick up most of the in-jokes over time, which is the best way.  There's also the danger that - if we have a place for recording all our memes -some editors may use it for self-absorbed promotion of things they find funny but nobody else does.  (We've already seen this kind of thing a few times here & at RWW).   23:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the ferret said it better than I managed to think it. 07:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure about this and I though some people might think summat along the lines of that. I might just do a small section about it in the Newcomers Guide. Thanks. 10:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought most of it was covered in the Dislexicon? 14:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of it is, yes. There are a few in-jokes that aren't simple words or phrases, of course, that wouldn't be there, like the username prank. Which is only fun when people don't know about it or forget about it...  19:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

God likes MMORPGs!
A guy I used to work with, a contract developer from Texas, was always talking about making a Christian WoW style game, but I never thought he'd actually take it any further. Then I find this. The "Why" section is quite amusing. I thought the opening paragraph was actually the plot line of the game at first! Note also the budget for the game. I think he might have a bit of trouble finding people to work for peanuts.

It should also be noted that this guy (who aquired the nickname "Doobie") would always talk about getting wasted on angel dust and doobies when he was younger, and when an attractive girl would walk past he'd make the oddest comments, a classic of which was "I'd love to split her in half" (although he could actually be an axe-weilding homocidal maniac).

I digress. The point is, I thought about the game for a bit and realised that it actually has the potential to make a fuckload of cash. Think about it; all the Christians in America who won't let their kids play computer games because they're not biblical enough. Imagine all of them coughing up £10 a month. 08:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Shrinking Sheep
Another news story concerning both evolution and climate change, sheep on an island of the Outer Hebrides are shrinking &mdash; Unsigned, by: Smg87 / talk / contribs
 * And snails are getting slower 09:57, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "And Leon's getting l-l-l-larger!!" 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Thorium
Have look at this. Is it Science, is it woo, is it bad science or is it a mixture? I've rootled round a bit & can't make up my mind. (everyone should stumble) 10:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems like it could be possible, but that there are still problems to overcome and since uranium is still (mostly) available, there won't be much research done until it becomes absolutely neccessary. --Smg87 10:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * These two are usually the best sources for elemental info that I can think of.
 * http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/090/index.s7.html
 * http://www.webelements.com/thorium/
 * Unfortunately, not being a nuclear physicist or an expert with the IAEA, I can't quite understand the details. But it looks like it works in theory, but the practice is a little more difficult. Perhaps needing as much research into Thorium based atomic energy as conventional Uranium based energy took to get right. But Smg87 is right, Uranium is available, just like oil is available. The way the economy is set up, they'll bleed this stuff dry because that's where the infastructure and expertise already is. It's extremely expensive to start something new and the returns you get initially are very low (because the mainstream option is still available and still cheap). 14:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Argh, not OT, but I, hate it when people separate the subject from the verb with a comma! 20:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

July 4
Alright you american harbingers of doom. Happy birthday from me - a representative of the rest of the world. You know, the better part. Ace McWickedi9 13:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In the UK, we call it thanksgiving :) 13:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah... seems like just yesterday us redcoats still ruled you guys, but it was 233 years ago! Happy birthday! 13:30, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is relevant to your interests, if only for the opening joke: http://blinddrop.org/vikings.mp3 -- 15:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Will CP get out their star-spangled banhammer? Totnesmartin 15:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Minus a million points for groaning lame-ness.  15:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Monty Python? 15:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, the missing link between Monty Python and Cambridge footlights, I'm sorry I'll read that again -- 15:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, right, I was picking up on John Cleese's voice at the beginning. I've never heard of it, but I have a friend who probably knows what I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again is. He's a bit mental and I'm pretty sure he knows literally every sitcom / comedy thing in British history. 15:38, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

ISIRTA was something that was on the radio in the late 60s early 70s and was a bit of a cult at school although the only thing I can really remember was the awful puns. But while you Murcans are doing things with fireworks please spare a thought for someone for whom July 4 means loss of independence. It's my wedding anniversary. 16:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Freedom from the British!!! (Sorry Brits!) Sterile 11:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

More low-grade science idiocy
but entertaining, though! Totnesmartin 13:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Jesus and Dawkins
Popular (not to mention utterly awesome) Finnish comic strip, Fingerpori, ran today a strip that I imagined you people might like. Vulpius 01:36, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So I've had a few beers and I'm looking at this. Hmmm.  Is that Lucifer (with a morning star reference) looking at God and thinking about rebellion while inspired by a Dawkins book from the future?  If that's the gag it assumes quite a bit of knowledge.  Or am I missing something far more obvious?
 * Ahhhhhhh. Now I look at the title of the thread it's Jesus who's having doubts. Blast, my interpretation was more interesting.--BobNot Jim 20:08, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

My Love Life Update
Hey everybody... I'm Getting Married......... Ok, not really. But one of my female friends and I have made an agreement. We've both had some relationship issues lately so we decided we're married... until something better comes along. We've got rings coming in and everything. Mazel Tov to me. 02:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You lucky bastard, I am really getting married. Damn it! Why can't mine be sham also! Ace McWickedi9 02:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I love it.... No in-laws, no tax issues and best of all, our "wedding" rings cost me a grand of total of $60, including shipping. 02:11, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think my fiancee is only marrying me for citzinship purposes anyway. When will the, uh, ceremony be? Do you need someone to officiate proceedings? Ace McWickedi9 02:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No officiating needed, we're probably gonna have a nice short, simple ceremony... Followed by a party featuring Southern Comfort (her favorite drink) and Vodka (my favorite drink). 02:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Congratulashuns! 03:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've heard of friends with benefits, but friends with dental? EVDebs 03:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There are friends, and there are friends with health insurance? 04:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the whole idea..... It gives me purpose in life.. Besides, some studies show that married men live 10 years longer... No studies on how long "married" men live however. 08:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, and you'll also find that as soon as you have a wedding ring on, you will instantly become irresistable to women. It's true! 13:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the real reason married men live longer is the improved hygiene factor and not being able to get rat-arsed everynight without being nagged down the garden. 15:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Mazel Tov (smash)! Corry 22:39, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, an update to the update... First off, a lot of my fundie friends are appalled that I'm making a mockery of the sacred institution of marriage. To them I have been replying: "Britney Spears."  Also, my friends have really run with this... We're now up to a ceremony, fully scripted and people playing roles.  They've also picked out music for the whole thing.... This is gonna be a blast.  22:49, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there some reason you're not just sleeping together until something better comes along? Or is this a more elaborate way of doing that? --PitchBlackMind 22:53, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, nothing like that happening at all. This is just two friends venting their frustrations at the dating world and having a few laughs in the process.  No hidden agenda, no elaborate plan, just a little fun and a nice way to blow off some steam... Besides, we'd make a horrible couple.  23:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but as she's going to be your wife, you can "have" her whenever you want, whether she wants to or not. Phyllis says so. 07:30, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Good old fashion inside-of-marriage rape. That's the way God intended it! 10:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This sounds like one of those romantic comedies that my ex used to drag me to. Now, who would play you?--Nate River 02:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Wait... Do you mean me Nate? 19:37, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that it sounds like the plot of some movie, I'm reminded of Chuck and Larry. Anyway, good for you. I wish you and your fiancee the best of luck.--Nate River 21:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Homebrew
No, for once I'm not talking about Wii hacking. I bought myself a lager homebrew kit today off the tubes :) I shall soon be feasting on odd tasting, slightly cloudy gnat's piss. Anyone else into brew-yer-own who has any tips for me? 15:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Chuck out the kit and follow my exciting instructions? -- 16:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Soon be elderberry time... Totnesmartin 16:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In my youth (and several "dry" countries) I had some success with homebrew. As a student I started off with lager and bottles but found that it tasted too yeasty and you have to be careful while pouring it, so as not to disturb the sediment. Bottles are a pain to wash, clean, cork and do secondary fermentation and as I was brewing for 12 other guys, far too much work. The best way is to use a 5 gallon (UK) polythene pressure barrel. Easy to clean afterwards - you can get your hand in - and you only need to add one dose of sugar for the secondary fermentation. The sediment settles to the bottom and by having a low tap you can draw off the beer without disturbing it, except when you get right to the end and are desperate for one more glass. In the UK I used a Sparklets barrel with an adapter on the top where you can add CO2. This isn't to inject into the beer it's basically to fill the empty space as you use up the beer and keep's it from going flat. Even just using commercial kits I had a lot of "relieved" compliments because people's previous experience with homebrew had been a bit mixed. If you want quick results then the initial fermentation should be in warm place and then using finings to settle the sediment for the secondary. I once made 40 pints in 5 days and it was a tasty clear pint. However, I made ales which didn't need refrigeration before serving. You'd neeed a big fridge if you wanted to do decent tasting lager in a barrel at home. 20:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait, what? How the fuck do you brew beer in five days? The yeast, she cannay take much more of it. My experience of brewing thing is fermentation time is in weeks to months scale of things. Of course, my experiments with home brewing beer haven't been notable successes either. The words "weak as piss" come to mind in most cases. -- 22:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to use bottles, but the CO2 barrels do look tempting. The problem would be using up half the fridge to keep it in, as warm lager doesn't go down very well. 22:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, do you still get a sediment in bottled homebrew lager? I thought if you decanted it properly you end up with a clear bevvy? 22:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The sediment settles to the bottom, and you just siphon the beer out the top (or mr. fancy dan with his taps just opens the stopcock.) The actual bottled end product ought not to have too much in the way of sediment in it. Anyway, you've inspired me. I'm going to start two batches of 5 litres of mead next week when the brew shop ships me a fresh supply of yeast and sterilisers. I'll head down the farm shop maybe tomorrow and grab some honey. Anyone got any suggestions on what flavours I should go for? Not that I have to decide for a few weeks yet. -- 22:46, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I do what I can. How about something lemony? 23:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * How about filtering it when decanting? I seem to remember my Dad doing that, long ago... Oh, and how hard is it to make home-made Scotch?  Do I have to move to Scotland?  02:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe making moonshine is one of those things the police frown upon. Still, I was just wondering what the product you get is called when you distil mead is? Honey brandy? I don't think I've ever heard of it done, so perhaps the answer is "a sticky mess". -- 08:33, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All the homebrew shops sell distillers, like these but always say that they are not to be used for alcohol, as it is illegal in the UK. 13:49, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been homebrewing for a year now ... never had a bad batch. I made wine too, just tried the first batch and damn, it's tasty. Jr ss  r5  17:46, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to say that my first sip of every drink of homebrew - produced my myself or by others - has always tasted of cats' piss. Although I am making some assumptions about the possible taste of any individual cat's piss here and I may be insulting cats in general. After a couple of pints the taste magically changes to  acceptable and later to "let's have another".  The hangover is another question.--BobNot Jim 20:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the same as changing brands of pub beer, or even cigarettes (when I used to smoke), they always taste horrible at first, but when you get over the difference they taste great! 21:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I miss the non-sequitur threads, so...
I had wheatabix for breakfast this morning. 15:55, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A hyena can bite through steel.  16:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Celery is closely related to hemlock. Totnesmartin 16:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star. --127․0․0․1 16:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Mohammad Ali in his prime was way better than anti-lock brakes.  16:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * None of this is real.  Your Universe is purely a figment of an over-active imagination.   Bicycles are not popular amongst athiests.  --DogP Marmite Patrol 16:37, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * One Buddha was said to have a fifteen foot long penis, likened to that of a horse. -- 16:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Shia LaBoeuf set the world record for fetus swallowing, consuming 8.75 in 60 seconds. The Foxhole Atheist 20:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If driving the 405 wearing nothing but my Hannah Montanna underwear and squirting people with a supersoaker filled with lemonade is wrong, I don't want to be right. 20:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly what I decided to do in the end with the sheep, 4 pairs of marigold gloves and a bucket of soapy frogs 22:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This was a triumph I'm making a note here: Huge success!!! 220.240.36.219 05:03, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes I love cranberries, sometimes I don't. 05:27, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking of getting another shed. 10:21, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a Youtube video which proves that all the above is true.--BobNot Jim 20:13, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Q: What did the elephant say to the naked man? A: How do you eat with that thing? Refugee talk page 07:03, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When a you will do, why waste your time on an i? 07:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Exercise is good; but never play leapfrog with a unicorn. Refugee talk page 07:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Quitter
Sarah Palin quits. Corry 20:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC) MOAR Here's a better link. Corry 20:30, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I smell scandal; no reason given for stepping down so randomly? (on a side note, I had to cross check three websites before I believed it).   21:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't it because she's a maverick? -- 21:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hoorah!, au-revoir mme.Palin!-- 忍者  N  I N <font color=#A0A0A0>J <font color=#A5A5A5>A <font color=#B0B0B0>A <font color=#B5B5B5>A <font color=#C0C0C0>H <font color=#C5C5C5>! <font color=#D0D0D0>! <font color=#D5D5D5>! <font color=#E0E0E0>! <font color=#E5E5E5>! <font color=#F0F0F0> 02:20, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I have a theory on that. My parents live in Alaska, so I happen to get a lot of inside news.  Basically, Palin is going through hard times.  Her popularity is dropping like a rock.  Basic point, she's really a horrible gov. and she's leaving her Lt. Gov. with a nasty mess to clean up.  At the same time, she's making the publicity rounds in the States, leading to more critism from her home state because she's never there.  So, she's resigning to save her popularity, which was only going to get worse, on the hunch that she can stay in the headlines until the 2012 election.  Again, just my opinion.   04:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * She is obviously high on the idea of running for President. She is also obviously high on model glue. There's lots of shit hitting this fan, corruption in AK, etc., and it will only get funnier.  When the RNC forced her on McCain, guaranteeing a loss in 2008, they gave the world some of the best political comedy we could ever ask for.  Amusingly, much like our friend Mr. Andrew Schlafly, she seems unaware that her popularity is due to thehumor inherent in her positions, not the "intelligence" as they are deluded to think.  04:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, she is incredibly popular with the extreme right. They truly believe that she is Reagan reincarnate.  They don't see that her chances of winning over moderates is slim, and winning over any liberals is nil.  On a juvenile note, during her press conference today, she said "...When John McCain tapped me to be vice president."  But she paused between "me" and "to."  It made me giggle.   04:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought "It doesn't cost them a dime so they're not going to stop draining public resources - spending other peoples' money in their game" was a CP typo. Nope, it's in the source - the frickin' Governor's web site.  I guess it sorta makes sense, in a whiny sort of way. So she quit the governorship because she was getting watchdogged? Moar illiteracy: "my staff and I spend most of our day dealing with this instead of progressing our state now."  "progressing our state"???? This woman is comedy gold, please let her run for President! She's Andy in pants...  04:49, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Re: Chuck's giggle, that phrasing was the high point of the VP debate for me. 04:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My favorite part of her press conference was the inane basketball analogy she used. "I know when to pass the ball to help the team win." Taking your ball and going home is not helping the team win. Oh shit, maybe it is. --PitchBlackMind 04:54, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Moar yummy: "Our destiny to be reached by responsibly developing our natural resources. This land, blessed with clean air, water, wildlife, minerals, and oil and gas. It's energy! God gave us energy." She's a fucking total gift to humanity (I hope!) in that she makes the right wing look like utter idiots. 04:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If Andy is right and she is going to spend more time campaigning then the Republican party is going to be seriously screwed by the time 2012 rolls around. Didn't they learn last time that the last thing she should do is speak? --PsyGremlinWhut? 11:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

What gets me is Palin's apologists have come up with the idea that she quit because of all the media pressure, and who'd want to deal with being treated so badly. But if she ends up campaigning, then that totally puts the lie to what they're saying, and even encouraging. Therefore, right-wing bloggers are idiots. --Kels 17:24, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think she would make a fantastic Republican candidate in the next Presidential elections.--BobNot Jim 20:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Easy win--Nate River 22:06, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Absolutely.  I'll be campaigning in the streets to support her candidacy.  She would be fantastically brilliant as a candidate, I mean after all, she reads newspapers like a woman possessed, and not just one or two of them - no no, she reads ALL OF THEM.   The possible entertainment value of 2011 and 2012 has just become breathtakingly awesome.   --<font color="#00F0A20">DogP <font color="#993300">Marmite Patrol 17:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

This is fantastic political theater. Palin, who bills herself as a tenacious, rough and tumble maverick who is committed to finishing the task at hand, precipitously resigns, giving a very nebulous explanation. She then throws a tantrum at the nasty "main stream media" for asking what the hell she is thinking. She also threatens to sue some blogger. She is trying so hard to be seen as some kind of martyr she's probably erecting a cross in her back yard. Corry 18:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Palin has had a very easy process in politics. First she was voted to city council, then mayor of Wasilla, a town with like 600 people in it.  The mayor position is an absolute joke, and she split the Gov. race by throwing her own party under the bus.  The VP race was the first time she ever had to really establish herself as a poltical force and she wasn't cut out for it.  However, all that exposure brought all the normal pitfalls of elected office down on her.  Until that point, she was largely ignored and treated as somewhat of a novelty.  Now that she's lived in the limelight, she can't handle it.  The irony is, if she does run for and win national office, it's going to be a million times worse.  20:39, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is because she honestly does not like the impact that being in the spotlight has on her family, all she has to do is say so. It is an honorable and legitimate way to bow out.  All she has to do is say "this is taking an unacceptable toll on my family" and people largely back off.  Family is important, and most people understand that.  Those who don't are not worth talking to.  But if you get up and give some cryptic explanation, don't call foul when people try to figure out what the hell you're doing.  Corry 02:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * She blames the media for everything. She was a joke, pure and simple. A hockey mom? Definitely not someone who should be in charge of the military. A maverick? Try saying something original and not playing all cutesy. A mother? Take a real role in your kids' lives. The only thing worse than a Palin administration would be a Limbaugh/Coulter administration.
 * I love surveying forums on various media outlets for response on shit like this. People on CNN are lambasting her. Fox is split (the Palin poll was actually 46%-43% negative vs positive, which shocked me). The WND poll is like 95% positive. I love the various realities. &mdash; Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs 02:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Fucking urban legends...
Fpund this via a friend on Arsebook, a - now graduated - chemistry student, who frankly, should know better.

I'm not sure how recently it occurred, but it's a pretty horrible thing to happen and I can't be bothered to text you all about it. I'm tagging a couple of people from each friendship group type thing because it's taking ages and I haven't the time to tag everyone....

Whilst in Birmingham (though I don't know what she was doing) a woman was offered a "sample of a new perfume" on some paper. It was ether (probably diethyl ether) and whilst this solvent has made a number of us chemistry-bods chuckle our way through labs on tissue in our top pockets, used like this it's pretty DANGEROUS. Not only is it a short-term anaesthetic but like all solvents when inhaled suddenly it could actually kill you. The woman was mugged in this case but when you're unconscious there's all sorts of things that could happen and I don't want anything bad to happen to you because you're all my ladies and I love you on various different levels.

If you want to give your mates a heads up as well then go for it, I just thought it's the decent thing to do really.

Obviously, this trick could be used on blokes as well, but 8-12st of dead weight is easier to handle than 12-20st so unless there was a group of them or the guy was known to be carrying something really valuable it's not going to be worth the creep's efforts to try to man-handle the guy. I'm not suggesting any of you are feeble, just that you're easier to move about when you're passed out.

Take care ladies and stay safe whilst you enjoy yourselves :)

Now, I hate to be a spoil sport but my big pet peeves are these things. They cause more harm than good most of the time, and where they don't actively cause harm, they just spread pure bullshit. Sophos estimates that computer virus hoaxes may well be more expensive than real virues because the technologically unsavy will fall for anything, panic like mad when their antivirus doesn't pick it up, and the email content generated by hoaxes is massive. Indeed, scares like the vaccine hysteria that we're all familiar with could potentially cause pandemics of deadly diseases because certain areas have dropped below herd immunity thresholds. Okay, so this one isn't as bad as all that, at worst people recieve the moral "be careful what you get from strangers". But why did I get a shouting at for linking to the Snopes article on this and mentioning some facts about how difficult it really is to render someone unconcious with either ether or cholorform? It seems that people really aren't interested in reality and would rather go about thinking the world operates the way they want it to. 14:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That particular "brand" of urban legend always makes me laugh in the same was as it does when someone chloroforms someone in the movies. Chloroform / ether takes minutes to knock someone out. Who starts these things? I'm always the annoying guy who does a reply to all to the emails with a link to Snopes, just to rub in how fucking stupid the original sender is to all their mates. I mean how long does it take to Google a phrase from one of these emails? One woman who used to work here sent these sodding emails out all the time. Despite me showing her they were always hoaxes she would still happily send on the next one. 14:46, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I do the same thing Crundy. Just find the article on snopes, link them to it, and say "you're an idiot." The funniest times are when people reply back doubting snopes as credible in favor of a chain email. --PitchBlackMind 16:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My favourite was when I replied back to the email about the helicopter painted as a eagle/hawk with the headline "LOOK AT WHAT OUR TROOPS ARE DOING IN AFGAHISTAN TO SCARE THOSE BASTARDS!!". I didn't even need Snopes for that one. Really, OUR troops... so why is it a Russian Hind D, then? (No, I'm not a subscriber to Jane's Fighting Vehicles or whatever, I just played Metal Gear Solid) And if it's in Afghanistan, why is the background very clearly Eastern Europe? 16:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've successfully earned a spot on several of my relatives' e-mail blacklists because I constantly pissed in their Cheerios with Snopes links. The Foxhole Atheist 20:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely that's a good thing? Less shit? I wish tehmizzuz's friend would stop sending those "(cute / feelgood message), send this on to 10 of your friends and you'll have infinite happiness (THIS REALLY WORKS!!!!)" emails. 22:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've had bad experiences pointing out that these things are garbage as well. I'm my experience people just don't like it when you politely point out that their incredible stories just aren't true. Having said that people have stopped sending them to me - so maybe it works.--BobNot Jim 07:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What I've found the most fun is nuking e-mail forwards of reasonably plausible things that I have seen at SomethingAwful's Photoshop Phriday or over on Worth1000. It almost makes me wish I could be there to see their face when they click a link in an e-mail from me titled "Here's the original" and see what they thought was reality sandwiched in between bad writing and hentai tentacle rape. The Foxhole Atheist 02:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

It is threads like this that motivate me to keep RW going. I have been sending out snopes links for years in response to this crap, and have long been e-mail black listed by all but my most obtuse friends and relatives. The fact that a dozen other people with the exact same experience all come here to communicate with each other is a testament to the awesomeness that is the rationalwiki community. I love you guys! tmtoulouse 19:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately
The cops in my home state have taken to beating up gay men for sport. Corry 03:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Chad Gibson, a 26-year-old computer technician from Euless, about 15 miles northeast of Fort Worth, suffered a concussion, a hairline fracture to his skull and internal bleeding after officers slammed his head into a wall and then into the floor, witnesses and family members said. Mr. Gibson was still hospitalized on Friday evening as doctors monitored a blood clot in his brain, his mother, Karen Carter, said." These goons watch too much TV I think.  At least their bosses seem to be on the "fix it" rather than "deny it" course?  03:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I am from the south, and few things make me angrier than seeing people act in this manner. When I see people do this, I can't help but think "Sherman was right."  Wrong, wrong, wrong.  And the southern states wonders why the smart people leave.  Corry 03:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This stuff doesn't surprise me anymore. Bigotry and intolerance are pretty much par for the course down here. --PitchBlackMind 16:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "The Bible belt" - don't ya just love it. 20:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Dream on
You know you're a wikiholic when (as just happened to me) your dreams are interrupted by a "you have new messages" box. Sigh... I should get out more. Totnesmartin 07:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The little box is an amazing conditioned stimulus. It is highly "socially rewarding" to get talk page messages as its a signal of your value and acknowledgment from some element of the community and its specifically focused on you. That highly salient, highly rewarding cue, is mixed with the single greatest reward schedule known to man the variable ratio. Little wonder it haunts your dreams. tmtoulouse 07:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Far more effective was the "new messages" thing at the original matchmaker.com. The potential reward being much stronger... On a wiki one can just as easily be conditioned to see the box and think "oh, I wonder what people are saying to each other on my talk page..."  20:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, it was also a bright red banner across the top of any screen you loaded, IIRC. 21:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Weekend fun
I'm so happy that I have friends who seem to make it their aim in life to seat me in a chair, provide me with copious of food and drink and make me watch interesting things. This weekend was spent watching almost all of Red vs Blue. Brilliant... and I've never even played Halo. --PsyGremlinWhut? 15:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My weekend ended with watching a motorcyclist get hit and run over (and killed) by another car. That was possibly the most traumatic thing I've ever seen firsthand.   20:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ugh. What happened?  Just a random road accident? --Gulik 20:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The motorcyclist, who I see probably twice a week on the way to work, swerved to miss a van coming through the intersection (trying to beat the red light) and hit the rear quarterpanel of the van and was knocked off his bike. That was the part I didn't see, but was reported on the local news in that fashion.  The part I did see was a truck coming in the same direction as myself and the motorcyclist ran him and the bike over.  I was about 4 carlengths from the intersection.  I stayed at the scene until the police came.  He was dead apparently immediately.   20:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * How tragic, my wife won't let me ride a motorcycle any more, just for reasons like that. As it happens I spent my wedding anniversary on Saturday night in the Accident and Emergency dept. of our local hospital. Six and a half hours, and not leaving until 2:00 in the morning. My wife started to get blinding flashes in one eye and having already had cancer she feared a brain tumour. For over an hour we sat in a cubicle in the major trauma ward listening to the events going on around us - an electronic symphony of bleeps from life-function monitors mixed with the sound of vomiting by a woman who had overdosed on paracetamol. In the next cubicle was a fifteen year-old boy who was comatose after drinking 5 litres of vodka during a sleep-over at a friend's house, fortunately he did come round before we left but I bet he had an unforgettable hangover the next day. In the meantime I didn't get to touch a drop. 21:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like we all had fun. Is your wife alright?  21:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * She had another appointment this afternoon with an eye specialist and it was diagnosed as Posterior Vitreous Detachment which is small bits of the retina coming off and causing electrical discharges. Apparently it is a common condition in our later years. Forunately it is not a complete retinal detachment which can be more serious and lead to blindness. 21:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's good that it isn't too serious. My mother just underwent eye surgery today for cataracts, but had surgery about a year ago for a detached retina on the other eye.  It seems like a basic quick procedure.   21:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've never understood the whole paracetamol (acetaminophen, for the Yanks) overdose thing. Aside from being shot in the stomach or being tortured to death, it's one of the most painful ways to die and takes about 4 days. I spent my weekend gardening and getting pwned at cricket. Seriously, whenever it's my turn to bat the team take off the shit bowlers and bring back on the demon county level bowlers. They must be afraid of teh skillz, y'know? 21:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't say how much I'm (we're) relieved that is isn't a brain tumour. I don't think either of us could have gone through all that treatment again. I really empathise with those editors here who are going through it all. As for the paracetamol OD, yes that is not a pleasant way to go. I don't think people really think that through, they just have a vague recollection of how people used to use codeine or barbiturates and think that they will go to sleep and not wake up.  22:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Citizendium failure
Poking around Citizendium the place is looking more and more like an abject failure. Beyond issues of its popularity and user base, but to issues with content. Take a look at this horrific piece on Homeopathy. Citizendium allows "experts" to "own" articles, and this article has been taken over by Dana Ullman] a long known internet shill for pseudoscience. If this is what is going to pass for encyclopedia articles at Citizendium may it for ever languish in obscurity. tmtoulouse 20:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Should RW have an article about Citizendium pointing out this kind of thing?  20:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably, I am just now beginning to even see the extent of the problem. Chiropractic is another horrific article. Following up on Dana Ullman I note that she is banned from editing wikipedia per an ab con decision on POV shilling. And they have her as an "editor" there (editor is a higher rank that allows for "approving" articles). tmtoulouse 20:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Gah, one more and I will shut up about it until an article gets started. Check out the astrology section under Pseudoscience. tmtoulouse 20:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The stupid!!! It burns!!!! 21:00, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That made me look up Michel Gauquelin at Wikipedia out of curiosity, but the wp article on him isn't much better than the Citizendium stuff. 20:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't believe they still haven't learned not to use level one headers. 20:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Their ID article is scary as well. It's like ASK, really. Sterile 21:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Citizendium making link. 21:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Copied some of the above to it.  21:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Is a kwiki EL supported for them? Like CZ:stupidopathy? Eh? 22:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Transitioning to CC-BY-SA
Just to make this as visible as possible, RationalWiki will be moving to the CC-BY-SA 3.0 copyright license. Anyone interested in the proccess should head over to RationalWiki:Transitioning to CC-BY-SA. tmtoulouse 22:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow. Turkey to convert atheists
It seems there is going to be a gameshow on Turkish television where a Muslim imam, a Greek Orthodox priest, a rabbi and a Buddhist monk take turns trying to convert an atheist. Apparently you "win" by being converted to one of the faiths and then get sent on a pilgrimage to a location important to your new faith. To keep things fair "converts will be monitored to ensure their religious transformation is genuine". Sadly, there seems to be no prize if you convert one of the holy men to atheism.--BobNot Jim 14:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would go on that show in a second.  15:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's one of the things about being a middle aged man (I'm 56) that I think the world is going to hELL in a handcart and I know this and try to make allowances for this. However, the concept of choosing one's faith as part of some TV reality show! WTF! I have spent most of my life pondering, on and off, the bigger questions and have, eventually arrived at an atheist view point. It is something I take very seriously and not something I do for amusement, especially not the amusement of others. How can this possibly... OK, OK, I'm calming down now, rant over, but FFS.... Silver Sloth (talk) 15:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're just not hip enough to get it. If it's too loud, you're too old.   16:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The paradox is that as you get older you NEED it to be louder, just so that you can hear it. 16:22, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is great. I'm not a fan of reality TV, but I'd definitely watch this if it were on here. Hell, I'd go on the show. The thought of pissing off millions of religious people watching the show by spouting anti-god rhetoric in every episode would be too much fun for me to pass up. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Will there be a pirate trying to convert the contestants to Pastafarianism? None of these other religions has a beer volcano and a stripper factory.  Corry (talk) 17:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I must say that I quite like the idea of this show. While the great and the good will ostensibly be arguing against the atheist they must also be arguing against each other as many of their views will be mutually exclusive.
 * Furthermore, it is possible that some people may be surprised at what their religion stands for. Given that most people simply accept their parents religion without thinking too much about it, it may be interesting to see how it is presented to outsiders.--BobNot Jim 17:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd support it if it worked on the elimination principle, i.e. the religious leader that converted the least atheists at the end of the series were taken out in to the car park and shot. Well, there has to be something in the the program for atheists, doesn't there? -- 18:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there should be a grassroots movement to make Ace a contestant. --Kels (talk) 18:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Might it be fun to see in reverse? Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Daniel C. Dennett try to persuade theists.--BobNot Jim 18:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Most likely they will try to strangle each other. That would be a great PR image: Andy and Dawkins throttling each other--Nate River (talk) 18:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Ray Comfort vs. Thunderf00t
I don't know if anyone follows Thunderf00t on youtube, but he will debate Ray Comfort in August sometime.

Sterile 02:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I expect a penalty shoot-out with Comfort moving the goal every time Thunderf00t puts a shot on target. 06:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahhh yes, this should be interesting. Ace McWickedi9 07:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I gave up on TF00t after he revealed himself. 21:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? I think hes a pretty sexy guy. Web (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Slider voting is back
<slider poll=slider1 min=1 max=11>Rate awesomeness of new slider extension This was originally disabled during the upgrade, because I didn't have time to rewrite it and it was virtually unused (aotw uses its own separate implementation). I plan to use this for the new aotw extension, so please test. It uses the wigo table, however it adds "slider" to the poll id, so you can't hack wigo votes with this. (You can still easily do it with javascript though) Nx (talk) 17:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Should I be allowed multiple votes? Silver Sloth (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can change your vote any time (like on wigo), but it always replaces your previous one. Nx (talk) 17:39, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Rated 1 on account of the slider not going to 11. -- 17:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Why should it got to 11? Nx (talk) 17:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I never really cared for slider voting. In fact, that's one reason I never got into the whole Article of the Weak thing, I just found it difficult to parse everything out. --Kels (talk) 17:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * NX: SRSLY? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 18:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, never even heard of it. Nx (talk) 18:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Really, you've never seen or even heard of Spinal Tap? This is really damaging your hacker cred. To the pirate bay with you! -- 18:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Spinal Tap mightn't've caught on in Hungary. 21:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice. Can you limit the results output to one or two decimal points please? 18:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! 23:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

<slider poll=sschlaflygrading min=8 max=10>I give you: the Andrew Schlafly grading slider!


 * I added some simple anti-hacking checks to both sliders and wigo. You can use javascript to send an invalid vote to the server, and it will happily accept it, but now both wigo and sliders ignore votes that are invalid, i.e. for wigo only -1, 0 and 1 are allowed, for sliders anything between the min/max parameters (these default to 0 and 100 btw). If you change a slider's range, the votes that fall outside the new range are simply ignored, but not deleted, so if you change it back, they'll be counted again. (simply change max=11 to max=10 in the first slider above and click show preview, the score will go down) Nx (talk) 09:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarians
OK, so although I'm very tolerant of vegies, be honest, you can't despute this argument: "Well, you came to our house and we cooked mushroom risotto, so I was sort of expecting you to return the effort" 00:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi-larious! 00:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Agent Suave
Sorry, I couldn't resist. From the same progamme, I know you'll love it. 00:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, very funny. Very well done.  Lots of "jokes".  I chuckled to myself several times.  Goldfish?!  03:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Do you mean, wanking?" "Err, no" 10:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hangover
Oh man, I got totally Aced last night and am now at work trying my best to pretend I'm not constantly nipping to the bog for a quick chunder. I still don't understand why I can't puke quietly though. 08:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope last night was worth it! :-) Bob Mudford--BobNot Jim 08:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, I just stayed up late playing online poker. Won at the cash tables but got pwned in the tournaments. I had one really bad beat on the cash tables though. I got a pair of kings, raised, someone goes all in (short stacked) I snap-call. He flips over a pair of queens so I'm 81% favorite to win. The flop comes: Q Q 6 :( 09:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If I understood the terminology I would sympathise. :-) --BobNot Jim 09:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you gotten Aced properly you would have actually been in a casino, vomiting noisely upon a passing cattle rustler and his new bride. Ace McWickedi9 09:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm still in training, master. One day I shall awake on a council tip with no recollection of the reasoning behind my whereabouts. One day. 10:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

A question entirely from left field
Since I don't really know anywhere or anyone to ask this question of, I'll ask it here since I know at least some RWians are arty. Glass etching cream, how acidic is it? My mum's birthday is coming up and I just had a brilliant idea of what to make for her, but it involves etching glass in really fiddly patterns. I had the idea of using photoresist, since I have all the gear for my electronics work and I've used it for salt etching metals before. However, I'm wondering if glass etching stuff isn't going to eat the photoresist too and then I'll just end up with an expensive mess. Anybody have a clue? -- 09:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is a question of how acidic it is it's a question of how reactive it is. I mean you can store pretty strong acids in glass bottles without any damage. To etch you need either hydrofluoric acid or other fluorine compounds which are constituents of the etching cream. These things are caustic and will burn your skin but I have no idea about how they would react with photoresist, people normally use adhesive stencils. 11:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hard to say without knowing what your photoresist is made of and knowing how dilute/concentrated the acid is. (Actually, even knowing those things wouldn't help me!)  Any acid will less corrosive if diluted enough.  HF has inherent toxological properties that make it complicated when concentrated  (it sucks calcium from your bones above a certain concentration), although I doubt if you can buy it commercially this will be a problem.  Sterile 14:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, (something intelligent-sounding followed by a non-answer). &mdash; Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 14:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you try it out on a bit of scrap glass? Silver Sloth (talk) 14:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. Maybe I'll try it out on a curry sauce jar or something. Might be a bit of hassle getting it in the UV light box and getting a good exposure, but it scarcely matters if the pattern comes out well. -- 15:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The only thing I would add is that glass has a variety of "flavours" and may respond differently to the etching process, so make your test on something that is similar to whatever you're planning to give your ma. (An art-nouveau decorated HP sauce bottle?) 16:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Gosh, how complicated. I was under the impression that glass was glass, maybe with a bit of this, that or the other chucked in to make it a pretty colour. Since I've no idea what these types of glass are, or what type I'm going to be etching, I may have to trust to dumb luck on this front. -- 17:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, think of things like lead crystal and borosilicate glass which have different properties to standard soda-lime class. Most glasses are silica-based but have different addititives to give them their special properties. 18:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Quote time.
I was just wondering what everyone else has as their favorite quotes on faith? My personal favorite is "Debate with those who argue through faith is like teaching a fish to ride a bicycle." But I also enjoy "Faith is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there." What are some of the mob's favorites? 23:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Faith brings us together and orders us to kill each other". That is why as a Christian, I have problems with people using faith as a "just" cause when committing atrocious acts.--Tabris (talk) 23:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll take my fish without a bicycle, if you don't mind. 03:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * More of a juxtaposition: "Religion is the opiate of the masses" - Karl Marx, and "Winners don't use drugs" - The FBI. 08:41, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's a common misquote of Marx. The real quote is "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."  13:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Best I've come across is from one of the Science of Discworld books, when the wizards are confronted with earth religion. "Ah, quiet gods, noisy people, we must tread carefully," said Ridcully. --PsyGremlinWhut? 16:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have a snappy quote about faith but I think an interview with Richard Feynmann summed up my attitude to the subject:
 * I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything. And there are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we are here, and what the question might mean. I might think about it a little bit, but if I can't figure it out I'll move onto something else - but I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things.
 * As a scientist I am well aware of my ignorance and am comfortable with it. I try to fill in the gaps to the best of my ability but don't worry if there isn't an answer. I believe that Feynmann's remarks show wisdom and humility. Faith is for those who require certainty, and certainty leads to arrogance. Maybe Oscar Wilde's quote "I am not young enough to know everything" might be a way of summing it all up. 19:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future
Does anyone know anything about this book? Sterile 01:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno, but it looks like a good one. Is it on amazona? 03:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's new--it's on Amazon next week and official released new wk. Sterile 13:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Has it been reviewed in SciAm? I have a bunch I haven't read much of...  18:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Some links:


 * http://www.amazon.com/Unscientific-America-Scientific-Illiteracy-Threatens/dp/0465013058
 * http://unscientificamerica.com/
 * http://scienceblogs.com/intersection/2009/01/the_jacket.php

I guess there'll be more info after release, though I would expect review copies to have shipped long enough ago for the reviews to coincide roughly with release. 18:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yikes! PZMeyers panned it.  Sterile 19:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a surprise, PZ's pretty down on the accommodationists. And he's got a point, what good is science if it's watered down to that point? --Kels (talk) 19:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

A more favorable review. 19:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

'Nother one. 19:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * All three reviews seem to say the same thing; scientists need better PR. Though I think PZ nails it most accurately, that you can't sacrafice results for PR.  Probably a read-for-free.   20:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was also a bit puzzled by the Pluto affair in the extract on their website. With so few pages in the book anyway I think I'll go with Meyers' verdict and save my money. As for science needing better PR most of what is served up in the popular media is utterly banal. What often passes for science in the press is along the lines of stupid formulae describing the perfect wiggle of a woman's bum. Attenborough is a beacon in the darkness of the MSM's handling of science. If you want to see other great science and technology communicators then TED has a whole stack of them. The last thing science needs to be doing is kowtowing to the ignorant masses; it needs to kick ass, and particulalry the asses of those fundy nutjobs who stand in its way. 20:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm suspicious, too. If the authors emphasized that science is a process or a method I'd be less so.  Rather than emphasizing whether Pluto is a planet, they should be emphasizing what a planet is, how that fits into the modern understanding of planetary science, and why that is significant.  If Pluto falls into the category, so be it.  If not, then not.  That's what science is about.  In many ways, the bigger problem is the difference in expectations between scientists and non-scientists.  Non-scientists think of science as medicine and other "practical" subjects, and mostly about facts, not about process and a way of thinking.  They also think of it being refuted with rhetoric, hence the anti-evolution and anti-global warming folks.  Sterile 21:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The key to the Pluto story is the discoveries that forced the issue of the colloquial term "planet" and its usage. That is what should be emphasized.  Not, "aw, there's only 8 planets now, I confused", but "cool, there's even more junk out there a lot like Pluto" - and "cool, we found hundreds of extrasolar planets last year!"
 * The hard part re: ombudspeople is that people truly well versed in science and blessed with extraordinary communications skills are rare. My favorite populariser to hate is Michio Kaku, a brilliant scientist (physics), but the worst radio show host I've ever heard.  21:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely you're joking, Mr. Human, there are billions and billions. 05:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Of cells, M. Clepper, of cells. Surely we agree that is barely a single critter, let alone one with thes skills? (PS, that was fucking funny!) 06:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)