User talk:IndianRationalist/Irrationality in Hinduism

Not a great title
I'll be honest, the worst crap about hinduism, should probably be put in the hinduism article, and if it must be spun off, this name is attrociously non-specific. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 21:06, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 * A better article would be contradictions in Hindu scripture (along the lines of Biblical contradictions), which is not what this article is. It is unclear who or what the arbiter of irrationality is in this article other than the article's author. Undoubtedly most of the statements in the article would appear rational to many Hindus,  I think this article should be deleted. Bongolian (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Rather than deleting the article, I'd suggest making it an essay or a draft. CowHouse (talk) 06:53, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That would be fine, . It would be helpful if weighed in on this before it gets moved. Bongolian (talk) 07:16, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * If they don't respond: essayspace, if they do, consider what they say, but probably draft. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:22, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for being direct. I'll explain my rationale for creating this page in short: Unlike Bible or Koran, Hinduism has texts like Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Brahmanas, Smritis to name a few - all of which contain illogical statements and inconsistencies (e.g. eat beef to get a son). My initial idea was to make a list of some of them and I thought that including them in the main page on Hinduism can make it huge. Perhaps the article is missing some coherence at the moment, which I would be more than happy to fix. Also it is not complete at the moment, as I do not have a lot of time on my hand. IndianRationalist (talk) 17:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding the page itself, I agree it makes it sound like apologia (this is not what I had in mind). Perhaps we could name it Contradictions in Hindu Scripture, but then what about godmen and other woo-peddlers who do not really deserve their own page. Anyway, if this is to be done then some of the content will have to be moved to the main page on Hinduism and I can only include contradictions here. Or there could be another page focusing on contradictions, because as said above, the initial idea was a page about all stuff shitty and weird. I would like to hear your opinions on this as well . IndianRationalist (talk) 17:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have a possibility that would entail a lot of work for you, but I'd like to suggest: We have projects like RationalWiki:Annotated Qur'an and RationalWiki:Annotated Bible, a simlar project for each of the works you listed could be the best way to document these verse-by-verse objections. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:43, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Whoa! Those pages are pretty cool. But I am not sure how much I would be able to pull off working alone for something like that! I will consider it seriously, though and ask around for volunteers. But coming back to the page at hand, are you still of the opinion that the present page (the atrocious choice of name, notwithstanding) is superfluous? IndianRationalist (talk) 17:54, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * My thought was that the content is good content, just the title is offputting and weird. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 18:01, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that an article on contradictions that was restricted to the ancient holy books and excluded the more recent godmen's writings would be a nice contribution and easier than fully annotated books. As this article stands, a lot of the quotes seem to be in the realm of folklore or culture, or could be viewed as metaphorical. Bongolian (talk) 18:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, the idea is to present or bring out many of these contradictions to the forefront. But I disagree that these quotes are in the realm of folklore since they have been put in writing by the Brahmins (priestly class) themselves who more or less dictated society and religion, sometimes even distorting or trumping the local folklore. Culture is a different thing altogether and while there might be some intersections, it can be safely assumed that any text written in Sanskrit language is not representative of the local folk tales or culture. This is because the Brahmins ensured that they were the only ones with access to the language. An example to illustrate my point is the word Asura("demon") in Sanskrit language, which also happens to be name of an indigenous Indian community. The Sanskrit scriptures tell stories that equate them with demons or evil, while the Asuras own versions of the same stories present a completely a different viewpoint. Just something to consider. IndianRationalist (talk) 00:26, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, if you can explain any contradictions, it would greatly improve the article. Just giving quotes is not always so obvious. Bongolian (talk) 00:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I am open to suggestions for a better title and/or headings. I would agree with you in this regard but I am unable to think of any better-sounding alternatives, at least at the moment. IndianRationalist (talk) 00:26, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with that this article should either be moved to 's User space where it can be improved upon for possible later moving back into mainspace, or moved to Essay space, where IndianRationalist can write whatever they like there. This can be IndianRationalist's choice.
 * For an example of problems that I see with the article in mainspace as it currently is:
 * "Brahman men can marry Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaish and even Shudra women but Shudra men can marry only Shudra women." — This is sexist and classist, but it's not clear why it's irrational.
 * I think you either need to change the title of the article, or the content of the article, or add clear explanations to the examples. In order to show that something is clearly irrational, you need to show how it contrary to logic, not just that it is, for example, unfair (sexism or classism). Bongolian (talk) 19:17, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

LOL ok
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Hindu-response-to-Rationalwiki-s-opinion-on-them 12:51, 20 November 2021 (UTC)