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As a final note, if you think this page is a good tactic to apply in gaming the mob into doing your bidding, you may be shocked to see your post archived ''quite'' swiftly. | As a final note, if you think this page is a good tactic to apply in gaming the mob into doing your bidding, you may be shocked to see your post archived ''quite'' swiftly. | ||
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== "This shit" == | == "This shit" == | ||
Revision as of 23:37, 25 March 2021
Strike forces launch.
The chicken coop is for the avoidance, containment and resolution of cases of Headless Chicken Mode (HCM). Despite the name, this tends to be serious business.
This page can be used for reporting cases of administrative abuse (abuse of sysop or moderator abilities such as blocking, page deletion, or user rights management), general abuse (such as trolling, wandalism, and personal attacks), and conflicts which cannot be solved through normal talk page discussion (such as long-standing edit wars or article content disputes). Please be specific and provide evidence by including links to any relevant discussions, page edits or logs.
All editors are welcome to comment on the cases raised here, and to try to reach a consensus on any action to be taken. If no consensus can be reached, and the HCM seems to be escalating, moderators are expected to take some action. However, any serious or permanent solution, such as removal of rights or lengthy ban, requires a community vote here according to the guidelines laid out in our Community Standards.
Please try to resolve conflicts directly through discussion on other editor's talk pages before reporting them. It's better to just talk to someone rather than try to drag their name through the mud.
If the issue is not conflict resolution, but concerns RationalWiki policies, suggested changes to how things work around here, or similar matters of principle, please post on on the Community Standards talk page instead.
When presenting a case here, be sure to include whom you are accusing, what exactly you are accusing them of, some hard evidence, and a brief explanation. Since the sole purpose of the Coop is to resolve these disputes, don't post unrelated or more generalized complaints here — if you do, your posts will be moved off the page. Any vote started within 24 hours of filing will be considered invalid.
Use {{CoopNotice}} to inform the user in question, so that they have a chance to discuss their actions here.
As a final note, if you think this page is a good tactic to apply in gaming the mob into doing your bidding, you may be shocked to see your post archived quite swiftly.
Contents
"This shit"
"This shit" has now been deleted from UninspiringNickname's talk. It is highly relevant to this coop, and is by a mile the most disgusting thing I've read on RW. Kauri0.o (talk) 21:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- It's an unfortunate blow-up, frankly. Disgusting? Nah. I do think it was an overreaction, but that didn't need a coop, frankly. :)
- Minority groups sometimes do engage in their own stigmatizing, particularly in the past (eg there were a few homosexuals (example) who just couldn't fathom that bisexuals exist). I think the general sexual community overall these days is better at thinking of things in a spectrum than they used to be. Rigid labels are ridiculous. Kind of like music genres. In music, they are necessary for classification, but musicians may travel through genres in very fluid manners. Some people don't like it when musicians change (see those that booed Bob Dylan's electric foray
or, to give a more modern example, pissed on Radiohead's IDM foray
) but in retrospective if it is a sincere change (instead of a crass one), the over-rigid tend to look silly when looking back. - On the other hand, social segmentation happens. Would I necessarily expect primal play at a leather convention? Shibari at a littles convention? It certainly might happen, and if it does it should be okay. But I wouldn't expect it, and the lack thereof wouldn't necessarily mean the root cause is phobic. Perhaps there was some asexual-hostile edits that I missed (yes, asexual exclusionism is a thing), but I wouldn't think *too* much of a LGBT focused group not accepting an asexual because they wanted to focus on LGBTs. I don't think that's necessarily the right approach (IMHO any sexuality-oriented groups should be inclusive and welcome all given there is a lot of fluidity) and I would question the need to flat out reject like that, but, again, given that social segmentation is a real thing everywhere, I would initially put it more in that category, or at least factor that phenomenon before getting too angry about it. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
RW is terrible at dealing with drama
Whether or not we coop GC, I feel this is something that needs to be addressed here. Our systems for addressing major drama are laughably incompetent. We have collapses, which should in theory discourage editing, but people ignore and often remove them anyway. Typical ways of preventing these conflicts such as protections and blocks rarely work when everyone is a sysop. Removing comments from non-ban evaders is discouraged even when there is no productive discussion that can come from them. Ultimately, on any other wiki this situation would have been resolved immediately after it started, but because of the weak systems it turned into an entire shitstorm. We should have a discussion on potential issues to resolve this problem. I am not suggesting everyone should be desysopped or anything drastic like that, I am just suggesting that we could use clear protocols to prevent obvious drama from flaring up. Plutocow (talk) 21:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Discussing how to prevent drama whilst drama is ongoing is a bad idea. This can wait, and should be a discussion on the RW:CS talk page. Christopher (talk) 21:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
This chicken coop is stupid
Why are you catering to that random IP/accounts spammer's plea to start a chicken coop against GC? At any rate, I suggested him to lay off this wiki for a few days and I encourage everyone to do the same instead of starting this ridiculous chicken coop. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 21:46, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- There is a problem, however, when he won't follow our advice. Plutocow (talk) 21:47, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I am the one to give him this advice, ME. No one else has done that, all it takes me is checking the recent changes to notice that all there was is gossiping, mostly over GC losing his calm over another user. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- In his latest unblock message he said he was only coming back to reply in the coop. It’s hard to blame him for not staying away when people are talking about him. Christopher (talk) 21:48, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Except that that's not factually true at all MSS77; that comment strongly indicates that you hadn't bothered to read my coop or look at my links. --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
asoningSee my latest prototypes 21:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- All of it happened the same day, it is not a re-occurrence and it was provoked by UninspiringUsername who caused GC's reaction in the first place. Talk about strawmanning. When I copy a bunch of links I get called out for alleged "stalking", but apparently, you have zero problem doing it. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I don't really think UN is a "far-right user". Like. At all. GeeJayK (talk) 22:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- UN is not far right, but still a bigot. Read up on Asexual exclusionism if you're uncertain and contrast what's described there with what UN has said on their talkpage. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! /
/
/
) 22:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- So they are a bigot. So what? You want to argue about their prejudice? Is this the place? Close the freaking coop.UncleKrampus (talk) 22:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yes actually. Bigotry is part of RW:BLOCK and is against the CS. The coop is for dealing with editors and sysops who break our CS. I would prefer to have raised it in ATIM, but UNs conduct is equally relevant to this coop so we're doing it here now. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! /
/
/
) 22:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I think me and UninspiringNickname can try to talk it through. --It's-a me,
LeftyGreenMario! 22:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read the whole thing. But as far as I understand UN wrote about an episode of her life. I don't think IRL stuff is enough to coop and ban someone (unless if you're Michael Coombs), especially when people just asked her what happened. GeeJayK (talk) 22:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Well shit, I thought it was take a bigot to lunch week. I used to do that a lot.UncleKrampus (talk) 23:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read the whole thing. But as far as I understand UN wrote about an episode of her life. I don't think IRL stuff is enough to coop and ban someone (unless if you're Michael Coombs), especially when people just asked her what happened. GeeJayK (talk) 22:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I think me and UninspiringNickname can try to talk it through. --It's-a me,
- Yes actually. Bigotry is part of RW:BLOCK and is against the CS. The coop is for dealing with editors and sysops who break our CS. I would prefer to have raised it in ATIM, but UNs conduct is equally relevant to this coop so we're doing it here now. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! /
- So they are a bigot. So what? You want to argue about their prejudice? Is this the place? Close the freaking coop.UncleKrampus (talk) 22:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- UN is not far right, but still a bigot. Read up on Asexual exclusionism if you're uncertain and contrast what's described there with what UN has said on their talkpage. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! /
- I don't really think UN is a "far-right user". Like. At all. GeeJayK (talk) 22:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- All of it happened the same day, it is not a re-occurrence and it was provoked by UninspiringUsername who caused GC's reaction in the first place. Talk about strawmanning. When I copy a bunch of links I get called out for alleged "stalking", but apparently, you have zero problem doing it. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I explain and apologize a bit
I've expressed a death wish and stated that I was engaging in self harm. I don't believe in hiding my problems from others (see also my openness about being arrested) I did not threaten to commit suicide (I've tried in the past and could never follow through). I... I apologize if my frankness dredged up emotional health issues for others. I don't want you to have to go through the kind of stuff I go through emotionally. I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely don't want anyone to live with the toxic mix of rage and depression that I live with. For that I'm sorry. Truly I am. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 21:51, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Hey man, I’ve lived with a death wish for 20 yrs. You ever want to talk privately hit my email, my brother. Ace://about blank 22:09, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I can sympathize with the depression and self destructive thoughts/behavior too GC. I'm better these days (despite appearances), but about 15-20 years back I was complete mess and used to harm myself regularly. The hostility/incivility towards the rest of the community is a problem, but at least I can understand that you don't necessarily have control over it always. I'd hope other editors had the sense to leave you be during such meltdowns, but knowing some folks over here it's not likely to happen.
- I'd support the idea of mods giving GC an enforced block for few days to cool himself should something like this happen again. I don't think we need a coop for it though. Bongolian seemed to suggest that mods already have such right during the Oxy/Cory/IBF coop. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 22:27, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
A proposal
This is not a thing you can have a penalty vote on, just a piece of advice I hope you take to heart. When GC starts having these fits, just ignore him. Stop posting in the afflicted thread. After he has not been active for some time, collapse everything he said, and delete the revisions of some of the worse stuff. Engaging with somebody in that headspace gets you nowhere. You don't lose anything by not interacting with him. Sure, you can never trust or respect him and oppose his election to mod or tech or something should he run, but why provoke him into continually responding with more rage? Note this could also apply with some other users associated with causing drama.-Flandres (talk) 22:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- THANK YOU! While I am here, I suggest you, Grammar Commie, to add the sick template to your userpage like I did and move off the wiki for a few days to regain your composure. Don't let this wiki get in your head. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I can live with that. GeeJayK (talk) 22:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- We have a “sick” template? That’s creepy and stupid. Ace://about blank 23:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I can live with that. GeeJayK (talk) 22:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
An explanation
Some of you seem to question my judgement for starting this coop, and seem to be under the impression that I was "piling on" GC- and some of you have even gone so far as to compare me to the likes of HBC and those BoN trolls with no life who try to use this page as a soapbox to air their grievances involving this person. But I'll gladly explain why I responded to him.
I only intended to call him out for reacting the way he did in a way far better than HBC did, and advise him to take a break from our site. I didn't realize it would trigger another of his outbursts. The reason why I edit-warred to keep the collapse on was because I was afraid that another flame war was coming- and I felt vindicated by the fact that, about an hour or so after he initially reverted it, Duce started to pile on in a considerably less polite manner, so I went into full-on panic mode. The reason why I resorted to starting this coop was because things were rapidly devolving, and I was mistakenly under the impression that the thing in the coop guidelines about "personal attacks" applied in this situation because of the precedent set by our recent coop of Oxy. In retrospect I should have just stopped at temporarily modlocking his talkpage, where the shitstorm seemed to be largely localized. Feel free to archive this.
As an additional note though, I think we should change the CS so that incivility can be addressed with a coop; the existing system, as others have pointed out, doesn't seem very effective. --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
asoningSee my latest prototypes 22:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- OK. Why not withdraw your coop case. If no one objects, we can be done with it. I imagine GC will take some time off and rest up for all the work in front of 'em.UncleKrampus (talk) 23:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm just waiting for closure on my explanation, as some have made some pretty serious accusations by comparing me to HBC and drive-by concern trolls, which did not sit well with me after all I've done for this site over the past two and a half years. People need to stop jumping to huge conclusions with only circumstantial proof. --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
asoningSee my latest prototypes 23:23, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- "Comparing" is an exaggeration, all I said was that you were catering to that IP user because they were calling for me I and GC to have a Chicken Coop while claiming that we were the worst thing that ever happened to RationalWiki. And, I was not specifically talking about you, I assumed multiple people were on this Chicken Coop with all the gossiping surrounding GC at the time. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 23:32, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Anyhow, it is getting late, if you ever bother to reply, don't expect a response. I'll try not to come back here for now as I promised to myself yesterday. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 23:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- "Comparing" is an exaggeration, all I said was that you were catering to that IP user because they were calling for me I and GC to have a Chicken Coop while claiming that we were the worst thing that ever happened to RationalWiki. And, I was not specifically talking about you, I assumed multiple people were on this Chicken Coop with all the gossiping surrounding GC at the time. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 23:32, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I'm just waiting for closure on my explanation, as some have made some pretty serious accusations by comparing me to HBC and drive-by concern trolls, which did not sit well with me after all I've done for this site over the past two and a half years. People need to stop jumping to huge conclusions with only circumstantial proof. --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
Archive this shit
GC needs to understand there are firm boundaries for his continued participation here, but the key issue of the dividing line between acceptable / unacceptable ways of talking about self-harm / suicide / personal crisis is a Community Standards matter, and should be discussed, and eventually codified, there. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 23:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- I couldn't agree more. Spud (talk) 23:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Also agree, nothing good will come of this, GC has decided to leave of his own accord. Just end it. Christopher (talk) 23:36, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Alrighty then, since closing this doesn't seem too controversial... --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
asoningSee my latest prototypes 23:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- Alrighty then, since closing this doesn't seem too controversial... --Goatspeed. Watch meCircularR
- Also agree, nothing good will come of this, GC has decided to leave of his own accord. Just end it. Christopher (talk) 23:36, 25 March 2021 (UTC)