Conservapedia talk:5 questions

The deletion debate for this article can be found at RationalWiki:Do we keep these CP-related articles?/Resolved.

One thing: Susan, I know you take issue with the religious aspects of the Ten Commandments, ie coming from God, etc., but surely you don't take issue with the actual commandments? Lyra § talk 23:15, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Well, excepting #1-4, of course. Lyra § talk 23:17, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Or are you suggesting all theists are more likely liars? That's debatable. Lyra § talk 23:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Oh Christians love to cite the 10 commandments as the basis of American law, but that's bullshit. Only 2 of the 10 are actually crimes (stealing and cheating, false witness is perjury only in very limited and specific circumstances). Others are often good ideas (honoring one's parents, except when the parents are abusive fuckheads of course), but they're generally a less than stellar example of something on which to base a moral code: you can't worship Vishnu, but you can beat a guy senseless with a lead pipe. DickTurpis 23:24, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I think the commandments are more or less unobjectionable, apart from the ones that say "worship God". They're fairly universal. <font=""; face="Comic Sans MS">Jellyfish!^{Doors in the rudders of big ships} 23:25, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Its actually the Noachide Covenant that is generally seen as the basis for laws rather than the 10 commandments. --Shagie 01:12, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

Outside the idolatry and blasphemy ones (although the latter could have to do with social cohesion, I guess), pretty reasonable overall. And a heck of a lot more workable than the much more generalized Commandments. --Kels 08:05, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

Conservative values?

Are these big-C values or little-c? Because these days in North America, there's a definite difference. --Kels 23:24, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I've qualified my answer. No-one really obeys the ten commandments because they are the ten commandments. They coincidentally comply with some of them because it's in their nature to do so. I would never kill, but might covet my neighbour's ox (or XJS Jaguar or whatever) don't tell me that anyone tries to obey all ludicrous ten!   ^Contribs_Talk 23:24, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

WHERE DO YOU THINK THOSE SOCIETAL CODES CAME FROM? Aztec, Maya, human sacrifice? Most of the morals the West has are based on this model (except #1-4) Lyra § talk 23:28, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Why wouldn't you kill? Riddle me this. Lyra § talk 23:29, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Are you putting the cart before the horse? Why do you decide the codes came from the religion, rather than pre-existing good ideas that developed as a result of social behaviour that were later codified? The East, which was decidedly not based on the Ten Commandments generally doesn't encourage random murder and looting either. --Kels 23:31, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Further, killing your neighbour, co-worker or whoever might be satisfying, but it's tough to base a society on. Did even those cultures that practiced human sacrifice, usually if not always in the service of religion, encourage or accept random theft and murder? --Kels 23:32, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Sorry for the shouting, got a tad "angry" at edit conflicts. But I see your point, it makes sense. But you do have to give the Ten Commandments some credit for at least keeping the morals intact. Lyra § talk 23:35, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Credit where it's due. Problem is, the rules were codified along with a lot of stuff that was a lot less beneficial, like the hogwash Paul wrote and far outdated cultural and regional stuff, and it all solidified into dogma. So while some of the commandments are good (the theft and murder ones in particular), they carry a lot of harmful baggage along with them, which is frequently taken advantage of by the unscrupulous. --Kels 23:42, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I think John and Nostradamus must have collaborated sometime. ;) Lyra § talk 23:45, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Here's something about the evolutionary origins of cooperation, morals etc. (yes, I know who's the presenter but it actually is secular). NightFlare^{Speak, mortal} 23:37, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

Oh, NightyFlarey, Dawkins? But I see. Lyra § talk 23:40, 27 May 2008 (EDT)