Difference between revisions of "RationalWiki:Saloon bar"

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i can run it if needed {{User:FuzzyCatPotato/sig|}} 01:01, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 
i can run it if needed {{User:FuzzyCatPotato/sig|}} 01:01, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 
:{{ping|FuzzyCatPotato}} It is down, and please do so. <span>— [[User:Oxyaena|<font color="teal">'''Oxyaena'''</font>]] [[User talk:Oxyaena|<font color="red"><i><sup>Harass</sup></i></font>]] </span> 01:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 
:{{ping|FuzzyCatPotato}} It is down, and please do so. <span>— [[User:Oxyaena|<font color="teal">'''Oxyaena'''</font>]] [[User talk:Oxyaena|<font color="red"><i><sup>Harass</sup></i></font>]] </span> 01:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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== rmf 2019 elections ==
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judging by [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:2017_board_of_trustees_election 2017] and [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:2016_board_of_trustees_election 2016], we're supposed to have rmf elections late july-early august. (we forgot in [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:2018_board_of_trustees_election 2018].) people up for election would usually be {{ping|Human}} and {{ping|Spud}}, but {{ping|Bob M}} recused himself from the board.
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why do I care? i wanna run b/c ratwiki still needs a proper bank account and still needs form 1023 for 501c3.
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is it election time? {{User:FuzzyCatPotato/sig|}} 01:12, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:12, 8 July 2019

Saloon bar
WIGO Bar colour.png

Welcome, BoN
This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
Invision-Board-France-355.gif For previous conversations, see the automagic barchives.Winoes.gif

What is going on?

(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic)

Pointless poll

Spicy food, yay or nay?

Spice is nice!

71

Vote

Can't handle heat, must avoid at all costs.

16

Vote

Should Azureality be the site mascot?

Heck yeah!

42

Vote

That thing is so cool, I love it!

3

Vote

Needs more goat

19

Vote

What am I looking at, and whose hairbrained idea was it to make a frickin' Pokémon our mascot?!?

86

Vote

Who is the better rapper?

Tupac Shakur

21

Vote

Biggie Smalls

20

Vote

Both are equally great

21

Vote

MC Goat

49

Vote

To do list



On the Stoics

https://dailystoic.com/the-question-to-ask-yourself-with-everything-you-read/

I kind of take issue with this site, mostly because from what they make of the Stoics is seems like there has to be a purpose and reason for everything. But when it comes to reading, can't you just read for it's own sake? I mean why does it seem like they think life is some optimization game? Is there some definition of "better" that they are striving for? For a philosophy about letting go they sure have a lot of strict rules.Machina (talk) 04:40, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Stoicism as seen in Epictetus is not so much about "letting go" as about self-improvement and synchronizing your will to the will of the universe. You may instead be thinking of the Disney movie Frozen. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 04:59, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
And how do they know the will of the universe?Machina (talk) 04:42, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

23

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/23

Seriously, are Twoofers literally seeing everything as a conspiracy or are they just a bunch of attention whores? Tinribmancer (talk) 09:00, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Humans place importance in numbers that mythos deems for whatever reason is important. Western culture has unlucky 13 and lucky 7, but in Asian culture it is 4 that is the unlucky number. Christianity has its 666. At least a fair bit of "23" shit is irreverent satire, eg Principia Discordia or The Illuminatus trilogy. See the fnords, man! See the fnords! Soundwave106 (talk) 13:08, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
I'm surprised it doesn't mention that 23 is the number of human haploid chromosomes: clear numerological evidence we were bioengineered by a goat kid. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Second Referendums: Can democracy change its mind?

Let me start off by saying I am not British, but I have been thinking about Brexit lately. Specifically, whether a second referendum is pro or anti democracy. I have come to the conclusion that having multiple referendums, or re-votes on a topic is democratic and rule by the people. I am not saying that the EU's version of forcing repeated referendums on people until they "get it right" is democratic, however.

I argue that people have the ability to change their mind, and that having the ability to re-vote on a topic is important. If you make a decision not knowing the full repercussions of it, or how difficult it will be to implement, then it is important to be able to change course if things start to go sour. This is what actual people do in many situations throughout their life (Example: "I wanted a career in computer programming, but I really don't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I'm going to go back to school and get my engineering degree."). The problem with the EU's multiple referendums is that they are repeatedly started not by the people, but by individuals who are not direct representatives of those people. If people put a re-vote forward as with a proposition or ballot measure, in other words the people vote to have it put in, then I fail to see how it is undemocratic to allow people to change their mind.

There is an obvious problem, however. The problem is that very passionate people could constantly propose changing direction every time they don't get their way. If the re-vote happens constantly, only the passionate people would show up to the poll at all. For this reason I propose that re-votes can only be done during general elections (I think these are MP elections in Britain?). This means that most of the people would be there anyways to vote in the election, and you won't just get a small sample of the population. After all, you can vote a new party into power with every election, changing the course of the country, why not a specific referendum? Now my argument isn't so much specifically about Brexit, it is more a general idea of how democracies should work in general. Thoughts? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I think that your considerations are quite right. I point out that "re-votes only during general elections" can be unfair in countries were general elections do not happens regularly. Hence, something like "re-votes only after at least X months after the vote" would make more sense. Also, I mention that there would be still problems in all topics where the population is split about 50-50. Thinker(unlicensed) 14:14, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Forgive me, bUt In IReLAnD, voting in general is organised to get the most 'bang for your buck' e.g. EU elections, Local Elections, and a referendum amending the constitution to remove time limits on divorce all and to recognise divorces issued abroad within a single voting day so that's something they could do or could have done. As for changing one's mind, governments may change every 4-5 years in most countries, it would not be unreasonable that opinions on particular issues change in a similar time frame. In Ireland abortion was both banned in an amendment, and unbanned in a later amendment, both requiring referendums, and plenty of other laws and constitutional laws have been created and destroyed in the same way.
To say a democracy cannot change it's mind is a form of brain worms tbh. There was referendum to stay in the EU in 1975 in the UK, was it undemocratic to override that with a new vote? And for the last fuckin time the EU does not repeatedly force voting on the same issue, it is entirely the fault of the individual nations if this is the case. Ireland got concessions to pass the second vote on the Lisbon treaty, including an exemption from the EU army. Féinléiriú (talk) 14:22, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
I think that once we vote to elect a government or president we should never vote again. Having any further elections would be clearly undemocratic.Hubert (talk) 15:14, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Holding a second vote isnt bad per se, particularly when there were various problems with the political campaigns. In the case of Brexit, I'd be fine with a final referendum on it, but I'd prefer more specific questions to be added as well, i.e. give people the option to specify support for a no-deal Brexit/whether Ireland could be exempted from trade barriers etc. That way you can still have a result of "the majority support Remain/Leave" but you don't get endless bickering/speculating about what specific options are more acceptable/what the public 'meant' with their vote etc. 2A02:1810:4D34:DC00:C93E:519:E1F1:948D (talk) 15:50, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
referendums aren't even a thng in the UK anyways. they ae not constitutionally binding - an act of parliament can easily overturn the result - sweet irony if they do with Brexit, parliamentary sovereignty fucking them over (they wont though). we've ony had 3 referendums and two of those were recent and under the same government inflicted with hubris. you don't call for referendums unless you think you will win. that's why Cameron allowed the original Brexit referendum, and why brexiters dont want another referendum confirming the first. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:07, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
and Ireland cannot be exempted from a hard border and trade barriers - its one of the reasons there is no good deal available, and another reason why the uk will be no more soon AMassiveGay (talk) 17:10, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Taking a larger view of Brexit, in an important sense, the first vote was not democratic. Yes, everyone had a chance to vote, but democracy is more than just voting. While the majority should generally rule in democracies, the minority should still have rights.[1] Brexit, if it happens, will take away fundamental rights (EU Charter of Fundamental RightsWikipedia) of UK citizens without any plan for replacing them with equivalent rights — indeed that was the intent of some Brexiteers. As if that weren't bad enough, the Tories will likely be selecting the new Brexiteer PM based solely on a majority of its membership (160,000). Apparently, this is unprecedented, wherein a PM is selected without a general election immediately preceding the selection. Bongolian (talk) 19:19, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

look at every brexiter in parliament. they hate us having any rights. as for the tory leadership contest producing the next prime minister without a general election - it puts the lie to the vague 'eu is undemocratic' argument to why they don't like the eu. its always been bullshit, was always an after thought to rationalise why they didn't like the eu. they don't know why they hate the eu. it was just feeling because they did not know what the eu was, how it worked, or even cared, while tabloids feed a drip drip drip of bullshit negative stories (straight bananas the shining exmple) made the mistrust pervasive. if they understood it or cared what the eu did in any way, they'd have some idea what they wanted instead. they have no clue. and MPS have no clue either. they have no plan. no way forward. instead the arguments are on how we leave - hard Brexit or something else undefined and unworkable.
when boris or hunt take over, we will see the nhs starved, of cash and man power, essential services starved, rights eroded. everything blamed on immigration or the eu will get worse, and it will be apparent to all that the it was not the eu or immigration putting pressure services or making it tough to make ends met. that the true causes were closer to home. the tory party. austerity. those pushing Brexit the hardest were the architects of that. Brexit makes their dreams come true, gives them the excuse ramp all that up and we all lose. sickenly, try remainers were/are just as implicated so could say nothing. Corbyn could have but instead did nothing, as he is doing now.
another referendum should happen. it should be run honestly. it should give us real choices - not the lies and fantasy we got and are still getting. its not about whats 'democratic' its about turning back from destruction.
but we wont. we will crash out with a hard Brexit because there is nothing else really nothing on the table and my country will break up.
and we will know who to blame. we already do. it isn't the eu. it never was AMassiveGay (talk) 12:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Voter ID

Recently I heard some discussions about voters ID in the next 2020 US elections. I do not live in US and I have no idea how US citizens vote.

In my country, everyone has to go to the poll with a photo identity card (everybody over 12 years old must have it by law, and it must be reprinted every 10 years if I remember well) and a special poll ID card, which contains information about the elections you already voted. Then, an officer checks if your identify card and you poll card are OK, she keep them while you are voting, and she gives them back to you when you have done.

Isn't the same in US? Thinker(unlicensed) 14:05, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

No, because (1) there is no European-style national ID card (many Americans would think this is a NWO/UN conspiracy), and (2), individual states issue ID and can therefore use various means to prevent would-be voters from exercising their rights. In North Dakota, for example, the state government attempted to deny indigenous people voting rights because many don't have a physical address. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 14:10, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
"individual states issue ID"
OK, this wouldn't be much of a difference (voters have to vote in their own state, right?) if these state issued ID are given to all state citizens. Are they? Maybe it's easier if you tell me how do you vote in your own state. Thinker(unlicensed) 14:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
don't know were you live, but what happens there is kinda irrelevant when discussing us politics which are a horror show, where gerrymandering is a ok, with regular attempts to disenfranchise whole swathes the voting public.. while voter id in an ideal worlds not inherently awful, us politics IS inherently awful and I wouldn't trust us politicians to not place restrictions or obstacles on acquiring voter id based on who votes for who AMassiveGay (talk) 14:46, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
"if these state issued ID are given to all state citizens. Are they?" No, they are not. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 14:50, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
@CogitoNotStirred I read the article you linked, and it talks multiple times about these "voter ID laws," but it does not give any example (I did not followed the links in the articles though.) Could you please (I'm assuming you live in US) tell me, for example, what IDs and legal steps to get them are required to vote in your state? Thinker(unlicensed) 15:36, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Cogito's not American. Oxyaena Harass 15:50, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
OK, but I bet that there should be some US citizen user that can ask the question. Thinker(unlicensed) 16:01, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Correct, @Oxyaena. Thinker, if someone who is a US citizen wants to shed more light, they should, though I don't believe I've been inaccurate or incomplete in pointing out racism in ND voting law. Incidentally, there is a name for continued attempts to elicit examples of things in an online forum when ample examples have already been given. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 16:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Isn't Oxy American? Tinribmancer (talk) 16:35, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
@Thinker It depends. If you live in Alabama for example, you need an "accepted" photo ID to vote. Essentially you need a driver's license or a state issued ID. To get a driver's license you have to bring your own car to the test (and have insurance!), and be able to sit in classes for a week or two. In order to get the driver's license you also need a social security card and one other form of primary identification (including a different driver's license). To get the state issued ID you need a primary identification (passport, driver's license, social security card, birth certificate, current high-school or university ID, health insurance card, military ID, life insurance policy card, proof of marriage, or employee card). To get the birth certificate or social security card your parents needed to have filed for it (it is not automatic, and they may opt out if they don't trust the government). If your parents didn't apply (say you were separated at a young age or were abandoned) you have to apply for it. The application for social security requires a primary identification showing U.S. citizenship, proof of age, and identity. The forms showing this information cannot be photocopies, they must be the originals or certified copies from the originating agency. You then have to be able to go to an interview with the social security administration. To get the employee card you have to have a job. To get the job you have to have a social security number (even for minimum wage jobs). A business can sponsor you however. Most companies won't do that for any random bloke on the street, you have to be related to someone who likes you or you have some rare skill; which is not most people in poverty. To get life insurance or health care you need to have a social security number or proof of address. Notice a pattern? A lot of these requirements require other things which require themselves unless your parents applied (must be before you reach the age of 12). It is very difficult to gain an identification if your parents didn't know to register you when you were young, or you just lost your information. This means that homeless people lose almost all ability to prove their citizenship. Also, you must have a computer to learn about any of this, it is not taught in schools. Basically, it is really tedious to actually get your identification if your parents didn't do it for you or you don't have a work sponsor. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 16:37, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
I think the Wiki on this subject is a good start. One thing that the United States has that is very different from other parts of the world is, as mentioned, that there is no national identity card (bipartisan resistance on this one). There isn't even a common state identification card. In effect, two things have become defacto national identity pieces: your Social Security Number (a frankly easily forgeable card and an easily copied number that is meant to be tied into the national pension here) and your driver's license (which of course a significant portion of people will not have). (Not coincidentally, identity theft occurs at a fairly higher rate over here.) As far as ID and voting laws, some Republicans haven't been to shy about why they advocate these type of laws. Such bias also shows by how the laws are not targeting ballot-by-mail schemes which, if any fraud were to occur, would be the vehicle of choice (as happened in the one actual voter fraud case I can think of recently). Of course, reality is more complex than politicians often understand, and voter ID laws have hurt some Republican voting groups, like the photo-phobic Amish and Mennonites, in the past. So it goes. Soundwave106 (talk) 16:59, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
in the uk, you need no id at all to vote. just your polling card. and we have no state id either - opposed mainly on grounds of cost. to state and to the individual. even then, registering to vote in the first place disenfranchises the homeless. my own living arrangements have disenfranchised me AMassiveGay (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── "To get a driver's license you have..."

@MirrorIrorriM OK. Of course, a driver's license cannot be a requirement to vote, since citizens cannot be compelled to drive. Let's focus on the state issued ID.

"The application for social security requires a primary identification showing U.S. citizenship, proof of age, and identity."
Doesn't U.S. citizenship require a birth certificate? Said in this way it seems that without a birth certificate you cannot get U.S. citizenship, which in turn is needed to get a birth certificate is your parents didn't apply.
"To get the employee card you have to have a job."
I'm lost what is and why you need a employee card?
"It is very difficult to gain an identification if your parents didn't know to register you when you were young, or you just lost your information."
OK, I got it. Details aside, that doesn't sound different from my country: If your parents do not register you after you were born, for the State you don't exist, and of course you cannot vote. You cannot even prove how old are you. The difference is that in my country parents are compelled to register their children. Thinker(unlicensed) 17:56, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
You actually can vote without any identification in some states. California for instance has fairly loose requirements -- you can use "proof of residency" such as a utility bill in lieu of ID cards to establish yourself the first time. After you are registered, future votes do not check ID. Other states ranging from Wyoming to Minnesota to most of the Northeast US are the same. (I don't know about California, but in my state, Florida, registration gives you a handy voter card that has your voter registration number on it, that you can use to vote. I vote by mail. Florida has voter ID laws, meaning if I actually went to the polls, I would have to show photo ID *with* the card to vote. But nobody checks ID when you vote by mail.) Soundwave106 (talk) 19:57, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
@DuceMoosolini How is this concern trolling? Thinker(unlicensed) 22:18, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
@ut, concerning drivers license. its not so much a requirement but one of the documents commonly accepted as id in a lot of areas. in the uk you don't need to know how to drive for a provisional license and if you cant get hold of passport or birth certificate, its a handy alternativeAMassiveGay (talk) 19:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Soundwave106: I'm registered to vote in California. I don't remember quite the rules for it, but it was pretty straightforward as I believe I just used a birth certificate and filled out my social security number. I didn't have a driver's license but I did have a California ID card, and after that, no, I don't have to do anything else, except show up at a polling place (which is right in a middle school that takes me like 20 minutes to walk there and less than 5 minutes to drive there) and present my ID and place of residence. My sister, who didn't have appropriate registering credentials, could just use a provisionary ballot. It's all well. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 22:01, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm disappointed no one has mentioned that voter ID is a bullshit talking point, about voter fraud, which never fucking happens and all of this is about disenfranchising people of color, poor people and old people. Whenever these proposals come up, there is never any discussion on how it will be paid for, and it will effectively be a new poll tax. Unless the federal government is going to put forward the resources for a Wi-Fi enabled ID, with a national automatic voter registry and an effort similar to the census to get people ID's everywhere (and I mean every where) then this entire exercise is more fucking bullshit.RipCityLiberal (talk) 21:50, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I kind of alluded to it with a link to some choice politician quotes. Yes, voter disenfranchisement is absolutely the intent. But all the data I've seen so far suggests that the actual effect is relatively minimal. Politicians (and people in general) luckily are often pretty stupid when it comes to data-driven decisions. So this is more great for showing what type of personality a person has. Typically a person or politician who harps on voter ID is someone who is either racist / nativist, a right-wing talking-point regurgitator, ignorant about what the data says, or some combination of all three. Soundwave106 (talk) 02:49, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

While doing research to expand the Conservapedia article- I think I killed some brain cells

Actually went to the website and my brain may have suffered damage from the bullshit written. Plenty of blaming the victim" mentality. RIP brain cells. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 18:05, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Psst, @RobSmith can help you here. Oxyaena Harass 12:03, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
it doesnt need expanding AMassiveGay (talk) 12:51, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Oxyaena, possibly, but I don't want to run afoul of a COI. nobsI'm all yea'res 17:57, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Haven't you done that already by joining RW in the first place? Oxyaena Harass 19:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Knowing nobs, probably not. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 00:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

#KAG

So, I just found out that MAGA (Make America Great Again), will become KAG (Keep America Great). What has he done, besides almost staring WO III, calling Kim-Jung-Un a "Rocket Man" on Twitter & nagging about his "GREAT" wall, in the past 4 years?

Also, which Democrat is actually able to kick Twatty McTwatface out of the White House? I'm not american, but I want Trump out of there. He's insane. Tinribmancer (talk) 18:46, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

He empowered the poor oppressed white people, cut taxes (for rich fucktards), brokered peace (yeah right), showed those women their place and otherwise epicly pwned the Libs. Clearly he has done much for our country. (Can we chuck him and his idiot cheer squad on a deserted island now? Please?) ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:54, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
And build a great wall around it and sometimes drop food (The only thing his wall idea will be good for). Tinribmancer (talk) 19:08, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Whatever happened to Mexico paying for the wall, @RobSmith, wasn't Trump gonna go to war with them? Oxyaena Harass 19:21, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Trump and his supporters are absolutely insane. Don't think there is enough psychiatric medicine in the world to help them. Uncle Sam wants Trump out --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 19:57, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
Trump is also sucking on coal dandruff from Andrew Wheeler as speak while letting climate change run the course (except in the golf course, that's more important). --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 03:05, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
You're expecting a Global Warming Denialist to care about climate change? Tinribmancer (talk) 07:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Don't we all? #NeverTrump2020. Oxyaena Harass 07:36, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Trump has made America great (apparently) so now he will keep america great (supposedly). The reason for this is in my opinion that he needs a "new" campaign message and consequentially a new campaign slogan. Plus, it makes it sound like he succeeded in his first term in office in making America great. That is a good message to push, however dubious it's basis in reality. — Dysk (contribs) 11:49, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Not as catchy as the old one tho. Oxyaena Harass 12:00, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
The alternative was "Make American Great Again, Again." But it was even less catchy. Thinker(unlicensed) 13:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Oxyaena, Whatever happened to Mexico paying for the wall
Duh yah, it's called tariffs. Mexico is paying for more border enforcement now than the u.S. Congress. nobsI'm all yea'res 18:00, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
@RobSmith Source? Thinker(unlicensed) 20:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Fundamental misunderstanding of who pays tariffs (Americans) and who pays for border protections (Americans). Classic.RipCityLiberal (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Second Democratic Debate: Who won?

Who do you think won the second Democratic Debate? Vote below by increasing the number next to the candidate you think won, and eventually by adding a comment below the candidate name. Thinker(unlicensed) 09:16, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Bennet 0
  • Biden 0
  • Buttigieg 0
  • Gillibrand 0
  • Harris 0
  • Hickenlooper 0
  • Sanders 0
  • Swalwell 0
  • Williamson 0
  • Yang 0
  • Did not watch 1
  • Not Biden. Oxyaena Harass 09:37, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Not sure how this is supposed to work, maybe I'm expecting a click to vote interface. We don't get the full footage on this side of the Atlantic, usually a condensed version on whatever rolling news channel deems it newsworthy.

Do these candidates do call-in shows? Trying to get in Chumbawamba's Never Mind the Ballots (Here's the rest of your life) Welcome to Never Mind The Ballots.

Cardinal Chang (talk) 11:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

"Not sure how this is supposed to work, maybe I'm expecting a click to vote interface."
@Cardinal Chang I added an explanation about how to vote. Thinker(unlicensed) 13:46, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

you've another full year of this shite. barring glaringly awful or stunningly brilliant displays from candidates its kinda irrelevant who wins specific debates, and its far too early to make any kind prediction that isn't just a pure guess. theres plenty of time to make or lose ground, and one wrong word, or skeleton uncovered can throw it all a way in an instant. the cumulative effect over the course of campaign will highlight the clear favourites, and how they deal with the issues it will eventually be fought on. it is said a week is a long time in politics and there is a year to go. a year of campaign coverage obfuscating and distorting actual work in government or the legislature, a year of mud slinging and building acrimony, with obscene amounts of cash accrued and spent, with the associated shadiness. and this isn't even for president, but who get to run as president. us politics seems to be in perpetual campaign mode, a perpetual war of sorts. its no wonder everything is polarised AMassiveGay (talk) 14:51, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

and chumbawumba are a crime against humanity. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:54, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

I added the "did not watch" alternative.Ariel31459 (talk) 14:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Harris won hands down. Although Buttigieg may have taken himself out of the running for VP with his fumbling attempt at a Sister Souljah momentWikipedia. nobsI'm all yea'res 18:10, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
t wasn't just at the DNC debates: "Firefighters are battling a major wildfire that probably started after a heap of manure self-ignited". nobsI'm all yea'res 23:38, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
You can't just fill a car full of people and expect it to be funny. The Republican clown car was hilarious and worth watching because there were no stakes, watching dorks talking about their dicks was funny, had something for everybody. The Democrats don't have that luxury, yet here they go again, mimicking the Republicans, assuming that their base thinks the same as the conservative base. We know that the democrats pick their own candidates from the top down, nobody who votes Dem cares about broad Democratic party sport anymore. That shit is rigged, give us some fucking policy specifics. Gol Sarnitt (talk)

Moar

The good old days of Pre-Shitty Interface Youtube. Oxyaena Harass 10:11, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Learned an important lesson last night: Be careful when editing videos

Last night when I premiered my new scenario, I realized I messed up the editing in the video. Forgot to add text in some spots and put the wrong dates for when the video took place. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 00:45, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

What does this mean?

http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/903

"It amazes me how often I’ve seen the word “is” throughtout this site. Nothing “is”. Things resemble, apeear, or have some qualities of other things, but no thing “IS” another thing. Most grown adults know what “is” means, so most grown adults lie incessantly everyday. “The sky IS blue. The air IS cold. That man IS ugly.” Lies.

Not mistakes, not semantic differences, but mere lies."

It was one of the comments on the above site and it's been bugging me for a while. I mean it's like saying that a knife isn't sharp or it isn't cold outside.Machina (talk) 03:55, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

If nothing "is," then that comment "isn't," so it should be easy to ignore. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 05:01, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Whomever posted that comment on Dailybuddism IS a moron. Tinribmancer (talk) 08:05, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure if they're actually a moron, but they're definitely trying way too hard to be deep, and failing at it. Pyro (talk) 23:46, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Water IS wet, Oxygen IS an element...... a picture is NOT the same as the person it IS a picture of... pretty simple distinction IMO. Aloysius the Gaul 10:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I'm back from a 2 week trip in Beijing

And I bring excellent news. Rationalwiki is indeed blocked by the great firewall. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Ikanreed Given what we have to say about China's Regime(s) I'm not surprised. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 14:14, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
And here I thought RW's anti-Trump, communist, atheist, pro-abortion agenda would be seen as friendly to China! CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 17:29, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
We could be added to Websites blocked in mainland ChinaWikipedia if anyone so desired. Bongolian (talk) 18:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
We could also add the Pissed at us category to the China article. TheUmbilicalCordGuy (talk) 10:49, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Hmm, this site disagrees with me. Was my internet just shoddy? ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 16:39, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
(Edit) I actually can get to Rationalwiki from a work server in China I can RDP into... the usual suspects (Google, Facebook, etc.) are blocked. Doesn't even appear to be page level blocks at Rationalwiki yet. I was surprised, frankly. Of course, I would not be surprised to see some regional blocks though, and IMHO it's only a matter of time before the BANHAMMER strikes. Soundwave106 (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
According to the Wiki article of above, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory is (or was) blocked. How odd considering NASA's main page is not included at least there. Panzerfaust (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
@Ikanreed, a new user (刺杀习近平‎)[2] says that s/he's from the PRC (might have had VPN software I guess) and found us through Baidu. Baidu does indeed link to us.[3] Bongolian (talk) 22:48, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Independence Day: That day of the year where America is supposed to celebrate it's independence.................

But somewhere along the line it became a day where people get drunk and set off loud fireworks. It drives me nuts when people set off fireworks at 3 AM when people are trying to sleep. These nuts are the ones who might cause a military veteran to go into an episode of PTSD. This video demonstrates my point- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twjqViOBjXI I hate fireworks --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 19:07, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

whats the correct way to celebrate your national expression of jingoism? AMassiveGay (talk) 19:17, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
According to my neighbors, shoot off fireworks and sometimes shoot off guns. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 19:29, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
At least not be a loud annoying ass about it. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 20:12, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
I wait until the 14th of July, the real way to celebrate things in July. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 22:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
black country day? AMassiveGay (talk) 22:55, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
I was thinking Bastille Day, but sure, more to the party! --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 23:10, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
the proper way to celebrate the signing of a complaint letter is to write a complaint letter to your boy/girlfriend БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓(T|C) 01:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
The "tourist city" of Edinburgh has investigated silent fireworks which are doubtless a good idea for pet-owners and PTSD sufferers but still inherently comic for everyone else. --Annanoon (talk) 09:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Fireworks going bang is part of the enjoyment of fireworksAMassiveGay (talk) 14:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
people setting off firecrackers at 12:00am deserve a special place in hell БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓(T|C) 17:43, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Even on New year's Eve, where fireworks at midnight is the point?AMassiveGay (talk) 18:26, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
The best way to celebrate America, is getting blindingly drunk and being thankful you don't live in authoritarian country (yet) RipCityLiberal (talk) 18:34, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Go watch the fireworks. Oxyaena Harass 19:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Independence Day: That day of the year where America is supposed to celebrate it's independence................. and aliens able to travel across interstellar space after curb-stomping the armies of the world are defeated by a geek using a computer virus. Panzerfaust (talk) 23:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Grin and bear it. It's not exactly a holy holiday, but I have two 4th stories that are near and dear. When I was in high school, I got caught with some friends who's dad was a lawyer, his girlfriend, and another friend who's dad was a sheriff around 2 am, intending to set off what we had left. We were all pretty drunk. We got caught right away. The other guys ran, and I waved the girl off from running. She lived in that neighborhood, so I said we were hanging out on her porch and saw some fireworks going off, so we wanted the check it out. Really bunk high school lie. Cop asked her for her address, she gave it, then smashed all our fountains and shell-tubes, told us to go home. We went out in my car to try and pick these guys up. Saw them handcuffed, kept driving, was dumb but not stupid. Turns out, they got breathalyzed, the lawyer's kid got taken home, the sheriff's kid also got taken home a county over and was told he blew a 0.
Second story, I was living at a duplex. My best friend roommate and I had the day off, so we got drunk on the stoop. A pair of guys were walking down the street, one wearing a Bob Marley shirt, and this dude was shouting his head off. My roommate was a little further into his 12 pack than I was into mine, so he just started hooting at this guy. I mean, there were fireworks going off everywhere, there was no way to hear this guy, and my buddy wasn't actually saying anything, he was just ironically rooting for this guy. About 15 minutes later, this guy came out of nowhere and punched my buddy in the face. This guy got grabbed, but I ran in and we both threw him off the stoop on his ass. I am not joking when I say this guy walked backwards screaming and shouting, pulled his belt off, slapped the ground with it, and then his pants fell down. We blew it off. My buddy was like "I think I shouted Biggie lyrics at him, is that racist?" and I was like "Probably."
Act 2, we had some friends show up, and we were all having a good time, we had bought more beer since my roommate and I had both finished our collective 24 beers at this point. I'm spacing, and I see on the other side of the duplex a 40 of Sol rise up and set down, then I see this guy peek over the edge of it. I'm like "guys, guys" and then this same guy comes marching out into the street with a brick in one hand and a screwdriver in the other, screaming for a fight. I start shouting "What the fuck are you doing!?!" and this guy's friend darts over to my roommate and whispers something. I keep shouting "What is this, weapon of choice!?! He's got a brick and a screwdriver! Put that shit down, get out of the street!" and he actually did all of those things. And then my roommate says to this guy's friend "No, no, sorry, I have to call the cops. I have to call the cops." This guy's friend ran over to this guy and told him what was up, this guy backed off shouting "oh, big man, big man," but his pants stayed on this time. (Some people still reference me as the "weapon of choice" guy)
Epilogue: same duplex is where I tried to launch firecrackers out of a slingshot, had them rebound on me. Had a neighbor yell out the window "my kids are trying to sleep!" and I shouted to all my friends "You guys gotta shut up, this lady's kids are trying to sleep!" as if it wasn't me. Nah, I tried to slingshot the black cats. It was me. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:04, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

ATTENTION

After complaints from the BoN army and their glorious leader 142․124․55․236 regarding blocking practice. I have made some changes to the block reason list and would suggest that everyone reads the Blocking policy. Anyone found blocking accounts for excessively long time periods may be temporarily blocked and desysoped by the BoNs glorious leader and their cronies. You have been warned. — Dysk (contribs) 12:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

What about the blockchain policy (X blocks Y and is blocked by Z, or they engage in mutual blocking etc)? Anna Livia (talk) 12:33, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
[Insert necessary joke about cryptocurrencies] Unjust blocks are undone and unjust blockers get a proportionate penalty? If neither of the blocks are unjust or they're joke blocks then all is fine and swell. 142․124․55․236 (talk) 12:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Heh, my BoN army. Yes, relinquish your wealth all you non-number peasants! x_x 142․124․55․236 (talk) 12:41, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't have any problem with the rearrangement of the block reasons, but the ALL CAPS stuff is very annoying. There's no need to have the wiki software shout at us. Cosmikdebris (talk) 14:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
CD - the wiki has 'gone live' on its own account?
And how soon will the wikis interact on their own accord?Anna Livia (talk) 16:52, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I refuse to adhere to these guidelines when I see good reason to deviate. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 17:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Ikanread - to whom are you responding? Anna Livia (talk) 18:05, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Anyone who'd get tiffy over a 3 month ban with the reason "spam" when I felt it was warranted. Which seems to be an implied policy of the edits to "short term block reasons". ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This is all so fucking unnecessary, just permaban clear troll accounts, what more needs to be said? Oxyaena Harass 20:41, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

You have taken my piss. BoN army, as real and important as you are, please, have my piss. There is no need to take it. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:32, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
A clear spambot account gets banned for no more than 3.6 days? No! That's never right. A BoN who spams only gets banned for 3.6 days, obviously. But any spambot with a registered user name that manages to make it past the edit filter and starts spamming has to be banned forever.
And isn't it time we retired the "unfunny vandalism" block reason? The thinking behind that was that some vandalism was funny and deserved to stay on the page. In my almost eight years here, I haven't seen one instance of a bit of wandalism being kept because it was funny. "Mindless generic vandalism" says the same thing as "unfunny vandalism" only much better. Spud (talk) 06:55, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── pick n mix bans

only month of june checked EK (talk) 10:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Some of those do seem excessive. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 11:50, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Take a look through some of those again @EK. Check the deleted user contributions. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 11:58, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
on the few occasions ive been bothered to block anyone, ive found the block reasons not really adequate - too general or just not really describing the situation, while durations were a confusing mixture of maths jokes and of the clear lengths it was immediately apparent what the best option was. that should be cleaned up with guidelines on display - not on another a page but where do you the actual blocking.
even then, excessive or unwarranted blocks, or inconsistent blocking is still going to happen. regulars of the blocks probably needs to happen to see trends or problems - like nix used produce for user edits. or just checking whos being blocked and for what reason as they appear on recent changes. probs something moderators should take a lead on as habit. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:17, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Some people enjoy weak jokes and similar, and there can be funny vandalism (eg replacing the MGTOW logo with a No Through Road sign), and some people are RW/wikiverse newbies/have poor language skills - so should be tolerated/have their ignorance enlightened/otherwise turned into useful contributors.
The passing-through RW graffiti artists and 'My caps are bigger than your caps you (insert insults of choice)' lot will probably need more than a token block to say 'We know you were here and have gone elsewhere.'
'Repeat nuisances of various kinds' need banning for slightly longer than their patience (or be made to use the CAPTCHA option and similar).
Then there are those who are 'real problems' for whom other actions are necessary. Anna Livia (talk) 12:43, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Well, I always thought unfunny vandalism reason was never supposed to be taken seriously. I remember "boring repetitive edits" being in its place for a while. Funny vandalism would probably still be marked as "unfunny", and it might cause inconvenient for the lack of a drop down. Most wandalism is unfunny and made in bad faith. Good faith users usually try to explain what they're doing. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 18:04, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

@Oxyaena Yeah, a lot of those bans are from you. Can you please go easy on the banhammer? I feel I've said this already before. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:04, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

MIC vs NWO thought experiment

So, a thought occurred to me when I was arguing with a conspiracy nutjob. The Military Industrial Complex disproves the existence of the New World Order/Illuminati/Shadow Councils. How? Well, simplicity.

Consider a large company, similar to a government. The company is made up of many different factions and departments, all ostensibly working together but run by sociopathic executives who are willing to stab each other in the back for their own benefit. Consider the NWO to be the owners (it's a privately held company). Consider the MID like a group of several executives working together as a team. They convince the first company to purchase overpriced equipment from another organization they happen to own, causing the first company to spend $1 Billion so they can earn a $100m profit for themselves. Now, if these executives happened to be the owners themselves? Why would they ever waste $1 Billion of company money to give themselves $100m, when as the Board/Owners they could simply give themselves the entire $1 Billion as a dividend? Likewise, why would the NWO ever use the MID to enrich themselves by screwing over the rest of the country/world when they themselves own the entire country and could just embezzle the money directly? Using a war as a coverup is idiotic, not when they ostensibly control the media and could cover it all up anyway.

Thoughts? Mind if I add it into one of our articles somewhere? CoryUsar (talk) 03:56, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Think I'll add it in in one of the illuminati/NWO whatever articles. Any objections? CoryUsar (talk) 04:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
is not the whole thing with nwo conspiracies that they everything is all in the shadows and hidden? would not the above situation be a method of deflecting attention and hiding how much they actually control? AMassiveGay (talk) 20:33, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Is beauty imaginary?

It just popped in my mind, and kind of ruined things for me, but is the meaning and grandeur and majesty of life really just us projecting things onto the world that aren't there? Like am I not really "connecting" to anything but just imagining I am? I mean it would make sense since not everyone reacts in the same manner to the same image or experience. It just makes me sad that the beauty and majesty I see in nature is really just me imagining things. Makes it feel cheap.Machina (talk) 06:07, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Beauty is subjective, but that doesn't mean it's not real. Oxyaena Harass 06:39, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
As the old saying goes, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." And saying that used to be a bannable offence on Conservapedia because Andy Schlafly saw it as denying the beauty-making skills of God. Spud (talk) 06:43, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Is the beholder in the eye of the beauty? Irregardless, there are certain things that a vast average of people will consider "attractive," such as a slim figure with a symmetrical appearance, and for things to be regarded as "cute" they typically tend to have small heads and oversized eyes, a lot like infantile humans actually, kicking in our parental instinct. Oxyaena Harass 07:33, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
There are several types of 'beauty' - with finding certain other members of the same species 'attractive' (the definition of which does tend to change over time) being only one component.
Why do we find sunsets, peacock tails, 'majestic' landscapes, music, some scents, a particularly well executed sporting manoeuvre etc (taking a random selection) beautiful? Anna Livia (talk) 09:21, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
@Anna Livia For music, there is research that suggests that beats we like are linked to our heartbeats and pitches we like are linked to our vocal frequency ranges. Changing between these different frequencies and rates causes a flux of emotion, which music composers effectively control to cause a sense of beauty, even if they didn't know they were doing that. The human nose is very adept at smelling plants, a good evolutionary advantage for a fruit eating species. A sunset causing a calming effect is useful for helping people go to sleep and maintain a regular sleeping pattern. Peacock tails are a riot of colors, and again we are a fruit eating species that likes the bright colors of plants; the peacock's tail is surprising when one first sees it and is a source of intrigue. The spots within a peacock's tail also look similar to eyes, and we are especially adept at recognizing the eyes of other humans as an evolved social tool. Notice how we find the female peacock to be barely interesting at all. It has a little bit of color around the neck, but it is mostly brown. But a male peacock thinks that is just fab and goes to great lengths to impress them! A well executed sporting manoeuvre is effective at showing physical health of an individual. It is a good sign of someone being an effective mate because of good genetics, similar to why secondary sexual characteristics evolved in the first place. We find large landscapes beautiful because it makes us want to explore them. We are a migratory race that evolved to be nomadic before it developed effective agriculture. Finding a landscape to be beautiful also makes it more memorable, allowing landmarks to be more easily recognizable. All of these things are advantageous and have clear reason to have evolved in our species. Why do we find it beautiful specifically? Give evolution a hammer and the world becomes a nail. The ability to perceive anything as beautiful would only have to evolve independently once before being applicable in a wide range of cognitive environments; once the tool is in place you use it for as many things as is advantageous instead of making more tools (an expensive process for evolution). MirrorIrorriM (talk) 11:11, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

beauty is imaginary. its not an innate quality of anything but something we apply ourselves, and what we apply it to and why varies from person to person, culture to culture. its both nature and nurture, with some things we are attracted to throwbacks to a time when your partner needed to fit and healthy to ensure healthy kids, being repulsed by foods looking like poison or rotting preventing getting ill, are probably instinctual. others, like the way light skin is seen as beautiful in some cultures because it meant wealth - you didn't have to work in the fields. in other cultures a tan became seen as beautiful for the same reason of wealth - you could afford expensive holidays. this seems like it must be a social construct of some sort. the great outdoors is the epitome of beauty to some, a wasteland to others - what you value tells you which. in other cases its familiarity and convention that's the decider, or its the more exotic that's draws your eye. ultimately, a rose is a rose whether you think its a thing of beauty, it repulses you, or simply indifferent to it. why should it sadden you that it be like this? why should it cheapen it? the alternative would be dreadful - consider if beauty were innate or objective then so too would the grotesque. if you thought yourself ugly, or someone said you were, then that would not be low self esteem or just one opinion - it would be a fact that you were ugly, and all would agree. look around at the infinite variety of the world, with every facet its admirers. there is truly something for everyone. the subjectivity of beauty is a good thing because all that matters is that something is beautiful to you, something is of value to you, not to someone else, who cares if people don't like what you like? you get racism, misogyny, bigotry and ostracization when ideals of beauty are too narrow and dictated by too few. take a look at the history of Hollywood and the homogenous looks of its stars over the years to that in effectAMassiveGay (talk) 11:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Some aspects of 'beauty' are subjective/cultural/change over time etc - what William Morris and associates would find useful or beautiful is not the same as present tastes.
There is more to 'beauty' than the purely scientific aspects/recognition of skill and 'actual or potential benefits' - and the term covers a composite of responses (and not just 'pleasurable responses.' Anna Livia (talk) 12:07, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Can Machina be replaced with a bot?

==Is [abstract concept] [synonym of fictional]?== I was just [thinking/browsing obscure new age pages/realizing] that [abstract concept] isn't based on anything real and has no transcendental meaning that escapes human analysis. This [way to say "troubles me greatly"] because I always viewed [abstract concept] as central to [part of the human condition]. Does this mean [abstract concept] is totally made up? How do I deal with this? User:Machina(talk) [datestamp]

Really though, I haven't felt like you've asked an actually new question in a year now. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 11:59, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

It's more like I'm extremelt susceptible to anything that contradicts my current understanding of the world.Machina (talk) 21:34, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
But as I've said before, I feel like that's because you don't construct a view of your world that's cohesive. You don't give yourself the epistemological underpinnings to give satisfying answers to your questions. It's not that I don't think "what is real" is uninteresting as a question, nor that your answer should be the same as mine, just that you don't give yourself any definition of "real" you can stick to and apply to each of these questions.
For me, the old skeptic standby of "reality is what, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" forms a solid, if incomplete basis to answering that question. This leaves some edge cases like hallucinations, where your false perception isn't tied to belief, but neurobiology, but even then the hallucination is a real phenomenon, with a basis in what exists(your brain). ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:55, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Functionally, Machina certainly hasn't worked towards answering any of their own questions, which is frustrating. At some point, tourism looks like zoo visitation. How many more answers does Machina need before they share a single insight? A single thing that has been directly gleaned? I appreciate an approach that is only questions, but the approach is that the answers to Machina's questions don't answer Machina's problems, so the answers don't count. Is that important to Machina? I think they've said yes.
Sorry, Machina, but you've been looking for answers for a while. If you don't like the answers you've got, it's down to two probabilities. Either the answers are always wrong, or your search methods suck. But take heart, it's more likely your search methods could suck so bad that the answers you've discovered might have always been wrong! The answers to life don't work like a Venn Diagram, we can agree on that, no? I'm not mad at you, Machina, I want to talk about these things with you. But not at you solely for your judgement. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:15, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Suicide

I have a friend in Argentina who's thinking of committing suicide, they have a rifle and are considering going into the mountains. What do I do? Oxyaena Harass 07:40, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

There is some useful information on our suicide page. There is also a suicide hotline in Argentina: +5402234930430, according to this page.[4] Bongolian (talk) 07:58, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
When I've been in a really bad place depression wise, I was always avoiding something. One thing I learned is that I never wanted to die, I didn't want to be here; where I was. I wouldn't ask them "what are you running from", because then it would imply they are weak: a big contribution to thoughts of suicide is feelings of helplessness! They are your friend, so no doubt you know of some things that they like. I try to remind them of good times you have had in the past, or good events in their life. Suicidal thoughts are filled with confusion and hopelessness, often making one feel as if there is nothing good at all. If you can remind them of a good time in the past, it can remind them of what they enjoy; which is what you want to target. Ask them how they can make their life have more of that good thing, what changes do they have to make? Make sure you let them know that you are there for them and willing to help along the way. Suicidal thoughts also come in waves, it comes in swells. If you can overcome this swell, you can buy more time to help them improve their life before the next big swell. Over time the swells lessen and become insignificant, but they have to have something they are working to achieve that is obtainable otherwise it will just keep happening. For me, I got 2 room mates so I had someone to talk to. I also started making games which gave me something to stay interested in. Remember though that the swells can come back in force even if things have improved a little bit. It is like taking medicine, you can't stop when you are 90% though a disease because you just create a strand resistant to that medicine.
Now if they are considering going into the mountains, that means they probably aren't trying to get attention. They might feel like a burden and just want to remove themselves for the benefit of others, or they feel no one would care anyways. I would recommend giving daily text messages. I know when I was very depressed I clung to every text message like a life raft. Even if they are just some little news story about a new breed of cat, it shows them you care. If you can find stories that are tailored to their interests, even better. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 11:26, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
if you know anyone else in argentina who could look in them, or maybe the local police. AMassiveGay (talk) 11:50, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Probably need to emphasize that they still have much to lose, have the possibility for everything to very, very wrong if suicide fails but even if suicide succeeds, it'll cause life lasting damage to everyone around the victim. The person needs attention and since the person cares enough to talk to you, you have to remind this person that you value this person staying alive. I told one of my depressed friends to do me a favor and focus getting help. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 17:55, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Do anything possible to help your friend. Even if it means sending a funny text message, laughter is helpful. It can be life or death. That little gesture can save a life. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 22:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
I have one attempt. So I just got off the phone with a good old friend of mine. I called him. I need to go to a doctor for physical health reasons. I once tore my esophagus, like, real bad, was in the hospital for 3 days, had to get the tear clipped closed. They told me to avoid vomiting forever. Yesterday, I felt sick all day and threw up a whole toilet bowl full of bright blood. Today I felt better, but honestly, I'm still scared I might be bleeding again. I'm supposed to go to a doctor in this scenario. Last time, when I threw up a lot more blood, I was in the hospital for 3 days on the sly, my parents didn't know until a couple weeks later when I needed help filing the paperwork between an HSA account and an insurance bill. We talked for a while, and I confessed I'm probably a little mentally ill if my anxiety is keeping me from going to a doctor when I'm throwing up more than one toilet-bowl full of blood in a lifetime and going to the doctor to ask for help seems like the hardest part of life. He told me he was going to call me in the morning and tell me to go to the doctor again. He's a good friend, I am LUCKY LUCK LUCKY. Also, the tear is right in the junction, I could still eat dick like a pro, if that was on the making fun of me table. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 06:18, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Michio Kaku

Is there any reliable source showing that Michio Kaku is really co-founder of string field theory ? I searched on google "Michio Kaku string field theory" and found only some kind of self declaration or exact citation probably derivated of such self declaration because using exactly same words. I particularly did not found declaration of scientific saying same. Xavier Combelle (talk) 14:50, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

It's on the Wikipedia article. (See the section on light cone string theory.) I think it's fair to say he was one of the early contributors of string field theory, the 1974 paper is one of the earliest examples out there and is widely cited. I'm not sure if "co-founder" is too strong of a word but it's not too far off IMHO. Soundwave106 (talk) 17:37, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Very mature...

https://images.vrt.be/width1280/2019/07/02/37003599-9ca8-11e9-abcc-02b7b76bf47f.jpg

Just how old are UKIP members? 3? Tinribmancer (talk) 14:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Stop dissing on toddlers, they act better than this. Oxyaena Harass 20:31, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
I like how you call the Brexit Party MEPs immature for turning their backs on the EU anthem, and completely ignore the Lib Dem MEPs who went to EU Parliament wearing "Bollocks to Brexit T-Shirts on the very same day. --RWRW (talk) 23:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Just to humour RWRW’s whataboutism for a moment, I personally think both their antics were rather childish. Pointing out the poor form of one does not automatically mean you agree with the other, but, conversely, neither does one form of childish behaviour excuse another. ScepticWombat (talk) 07:58, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Whereas I see childish behavior as fundamentally necessary to effectively make points in both directions, however, the point that UKIP consistently makes so effectively is "we're stupid racist fuckwits" ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 11:38, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
There's obviously some racism among UKIP ranks, but I'm not sure how turning around for a protest-media moment is particularly related to that? 2A02:1810:4D34:DC00:7498:47D3:9C05:EF95 (talk) 15:35, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Lol, "some". Anyways, this particular incident is more on the fuckwit end of the spectrum. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:45, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
its probably worth mentioning that the brexit party and ukip are not the same thing. ukip do not even have any seats in this current euro parliament, having been wiped out earlier AMassiveGay (talk) 16:49, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah yep, it's the Brexit Party. 2A02:1810:4D34:DC00:7498:47D3:9C05:EF95 (talk) 17:00, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
When you are desperate for headlines but have no purpose, nothing to say, no relevance and nothing to do except milk expenses for a brief window, pantomine is all they have. The Brexit party members come mostly too late to be remembered and won't profit from any renown so far away from the limelight. Those will be remembered are spent force. Farage was a spoiler, his work has been done. It wasn't argument or leadership he ever provided anyhow. All hes ever been was ego fuelled by pomposity and bluster, a useful figurehead for weasel like MPs and shady beaureaucrats to manipulate. A bad joke obsolete by its own victory. Poor farage. He's killed the only thing that gave him life. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:14, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Spanish Flat Earthers get their own football team: Flat Earth FC

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/recently-promoted-spanish-soccer-club-renamed-flat-earth-fc/ar-AADEvx4

Are Flat Earthers already being seen as a meme? Tinribmancer (talk) 16:09, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Considering flat earthery is almost 100% reliant on memes to propagate, it would be fitting. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 16:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Should I created a conspiracy that claims that the Earth is a Tetrahedron? --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
As long as you create a few memes and YouTube videos to go with it, and some conspiracy about why this "truth" is being withheld, you should be okay. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 22:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Do it! Then post the video here! Tinribmancer (talk) 23:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Where are the vertexes and edges? How do you explain the horizon moving? Madness! --Annanoon (talk) 08:39, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Not just any tetrahedron, a Time Tetrahedron with 4 2 sides in a day. 2A02:C7D:1635:5C00:F9D4:3828:85B9:547D (talk) 15:02, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

As 42 is the answer to the ultimate question this must be true. Anna Livia (talk) 10:46, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Reading an excellent study on conspiracy theories now

For those of you who read a Scandinavian language. For those of you who don't, lots of other great and recent books in English (and some in Russian and other languages) are referenced in the sources, such as Conspiracy Theories and the People Who Believe Them and Enchanted America. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 17:58, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

At first I was like "Oh boy, I have a barely functional understanding of Swedish, I'll click that link". Then I saw an "ø". Fucking Norway and their mystery hell vowels. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 11:44, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Hæ hæ! CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 15:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Repressed homosexual desires and anorexia- Found this from American Addiction Centers website (this is not homophobic)

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/male-eating-disorders/anorexia

According to this article, a huge trigger for anorexia in males is repressing their sexual identity. Bad thing about fundies is that they think gays are evil and this mentality prevents men from getting treatment for anorexia. Also primarily in the fundie sector and just as bad, the "Men's Rights Activists". MRA nuts claim they are for men's rights yet when a male is struggling with self-esteem issues, they get laughed at. Obviously "Men's Rights Activists" are certainly not for men's rights.

These men who need help should get it before their eating disorder kills them. To be clear, I am not downplaying problems women have; I really am not but anybody with a mental health issue should get help. Cue the right wing nuts who think anorexia is not a serious problem. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 23:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

"Men using anorexia as a method to deny homosexual feelings might need therapy that’s specifically designed to help them accept their thoughts and resolve whatever conflicts those thoughts might bring up."
I hope "whatever conflicts those thoughts might bring up" includes dealing with homophobic families and/or environment. Thinker(unlicensed) 14:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
True that. RipCityLiberal (talk) 15:47, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
"According to this article, a huge trigger for anorexia in males is repressing their sexual identity"
@Rationalzombie94 I gave a quick read to the article but I did not find such claim. The only claims about repressing sexual identity that I found are the one I already quoted and "Some men with feelings for other men use their diets as a way to keep their feelings from rising to the surface." They are not saying repressing sexual identity is a huge trigger of anorexia in males. Thinker(unlicensed) 18:18, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
The problem with male anorexia nervosa is that the studies on such are relatively fewer, despite occurrence being 25% of patients (tribal paradigms even influence scientific study, of course). I have not found a link directly advocating homophobic behavior as a possible motivator, but I haven't found the converse either. And I have found a link suggesting sexual abuse and assault is a significant factor in female anorexia nervosa. It would not surprise me if the same is true for males. Soundwave106 (talk) 18:43, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
"It would not surprise me if the same is true for males."
@Soundwave106 Indeed, the article linked by Rationalzombie94 says that's the case: "For example, some men face severe abuse early in life. [...] they may have been targets of sexual abuse or sexual harassment early in life. [...] Anorexia can spring from those root."Thinker(unlicensed) 20:17, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
the take home of this article is that anyone can be effected by eating disorders and the many associated comorbidities, that the traumas and pressures contributing to these things are legion, all influenced by, amongst other things, gender and sexuality, with the approach to treatment similarly informed. issues arising from homophobia or repression of sexuality is more likely to suggest an approach that would be of more benefit and relevance to a gay male than it would a straight male.
indeed, stigma and perceptions of eating disorders as being feminine or gay problems, and ignorance of what an eating disorder can look like, can lead to a reluctance for straight males to seek help, with treatment options inappropriately tailored.
the message here, as with all mental health issues, is we cannot let our own ignorance nor the ignorance of others prevent or hamper anyone seeking the necessary help they might require. AMassiveGay (talk) 22:04, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Scientology ads on TV

Anyone else here have DirecTV and want to puke every time those commercials for the Scientology chanel comes on? I think we ought to write to DirecTV and complain about them cramming that garbage down our throats. 2607:FB90:6A8B:9E2:0:7:7B84:7401 (talk) 10:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Tanks are rolling in

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/pictures-emerge-d-c-residents-abrams-tanks-entering-city-mall-trump-fourth-of-july.html https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/03/4th-july-donald-trump-military-parade-tanks-seen-washington-dc/1637384001/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/07/02/pentagon-grapples-with-how-move-tanks-washington-rail-yard-national-mall/ Very normal. Nothing to see here, move along.--RipCityLiberal (talk) 15:45, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm so sick of how aware I am of where we are in history and how little I'm doing about it. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
I feel like someone has had this conversation with Trump before... I also feel like they explained to him that military parades are what insecure dictators do... ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 15:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Oh, yeah, he's asked for it every year. This year he gets it. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:57, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
He tried this shit with veterans day last year. But he wants it so badly, especially since he visited Macron in 2017. But he's a senile old man who focuses on little things he wants, then throws a fit until he gets it. RipCityLiberal (talk) 16:22, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
'but putin and kim both have tanks and guns in their parades and their mothers let them stay up late and watch 18 certificate films. trumps not allowed to do anything. its so unfair and i'd close my eyes if there was any boobies in the film, for realsies. i'm not even allowed a wall but at kims house they've got xbox and he doesn't have to do chores and hes got cool fireworks that are well illegal and probably not even allowed in mexico. he says I'm well cool its just you are lame and dont understand. he says putin would probably let me stay at his place ad i'm def his favourite, his parents don't care, if it weren't for you all so mean to him. your ruining my life. hes soo dreamy, sigh' - says trump, paraphrasing, maybe. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:30, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure who he's putting this on for. Himself, I guess, and the pro-fascist segment of this country that is his biggest fanboy group. Even the Fox News commentary section on this is filled with a lot of anti-Trump comments in the usual caustic Internet style. Sure, the fascists at r/The_Donald likes it, but it's just jingoistic noise alongside that group's primary purpose (which is to whine about The Decline of Western (White Male) Civilization, minorities, and liberals... share the usual incorrect alt-right memes as usual... violate Reddit TOS... then whine about their quarantine.) Trump could've done just as well catering to these fanboys doing something like, say, whine at the NFL for the nth time. Soundwave106 (talk) 18:59, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
@AMassiveGay: I'm laughing my ass off with that comment. Tinribmancer (talk) 19:02, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
@Soundwave106: But r/The_Donald likes everything that he does. They'd probably also like it if he gave himself a BJ. Tinribmancer (talk) 19:05, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Doesn't this make Trump a Tankie? Tinribmancer (talk) 19:03, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
He pretends to oppose some tankie-like regimes like Venezuela but then doesn't do anything about them. Maybe a pseudo-tankie, or alt-tankie? Tankie-lite? CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 19:38, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Wouldn't he need to go full dictator to be a tankie? Like uniform with a bunch of bullshit on it, and a garish sash?RipCityLiberal (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
Yep. Just look at them totalitarian fascists. nobsI'm all yea'res 19:08, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Be at peace: Baby Trump is there for you. Ariel31459 (talk) 19:26, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Sooooo.......I've been dumb

http://woomyung.com/meditation-method/meditation-method/

It turns out that broward meditation thing that got me down in the dumps is apparently an offshoot of this cult. To be honest the red flags where everywhere. If the $30 consultation and $200/month membership fees weren't enough there were other things. I mean I went to an actual Buddhist center and the people were nice, it was FREE (though they accepted donations, the place was a little hard to find though), and the monk who was visiting and teaching there answered my questions like a human being. This other place felt like a script being read to me when I tried to talk to them and mentioning anything Buddhist or otherwise was just echoed back like a parrot. That and they didn't really answer anything I asked, and wouldn't do so without an appointment.

In hindsight it makes sense, the concept of "selling enlightenment" should have been a dead giveaway.Machina (talk) 21:38, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Look at it this way- You now have the information to warn others like you about con artists. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I do run into problems with the supporters who claim to know what it's all about :https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,120209,page=6 But looking at it now it's pretty clear who knows what it's actually about and who's just blowing smoke. Those who "got out" or were affected by it can give accurate details and procedure that your average joe wouldn't know unless they lived it. I know in my experience some of this matches with the amounts they were asking "per month" and how they wouldn't answer my questions without payment or an appointment. Even the lady I spoke to freely didn't answer anything, it felt like talking to a robot or someone reading off a script. The monk from Tibet at the meditation center I used to go answered my questions clearly and his English was worse than hers.Machina (talk) 02:11, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

It look like a rather dangerous and cultish method that they're promoting based on their 8-step plan:
Level 1 : Discarding remembered thoughts (The level of knowing the Universe is one’s self)

Level 2 : Discarding images of self and relationships (The level of knowing there are no [false] minds)
Level 3 : Discarding the body (The level of knowing the Universe exists within one’s self)
Level 4 : Discarding the body and the universe (The level of knowing the original Soul and Spirit)
Level 5 : Discarding the body and the universe (The level of knowing the original Soul and Spirit and the world of the original Soul and Spirit)
Level 6 : Eliminating one’s self and becoming the universe (The level of becoming the original Soul and Spirit)
Level 7 : Discarding the illusionary world and the self that is living in that world

Level 8: Eliminating everything, being resurrected as Truth and living a life of Truth

It's worth writing a page on this group if anyone wants to start one. Bongolian (talk) 17:53, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I believe they did already, it'sunder Maume meditation. The thing is I briefly tried this method just to see, and it gave me a weird feeling of peace (sort of) but then it was followed by some void. But that was if I believed it to be true, I didn't know if it was. It was similar to how my mind make solipsism and idealism seem true just because I believed it so. In short the effects were my imagination.Machina (talk) 23:54, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
It's also worth mentioning that there are no pictures anywhere of the supposed founder of this school or whatever.Machina (talk) 03:18, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I thought it sounded familiar. I've added a redirect. Bongolian (talk) 18:47, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Apparantly his "books" are really just written to "Scare" you into the classes.Machina (talk) 05:27, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

NuttinessGoatiness

When goats go bad ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 22:12, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Wipe your tears for Nutty Roux. Oxyaena Harass 23:08, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
For our readers and posters in the UK and EU, yes. The phrase "taking the piss" does mean something else here. Especially goat-wise. Kencolt (talk) 06:14, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Urine therapy is more dangerous than we thought: it has the power to corrupt goats. Bongolian (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

On the Fermi Paradox

So I don't much believe that interstellar aliens have visited earth. But looking into Thorium (non-sequitur, I know), I've noticed something that I'd like to bring up. The Drake Equation and Fermi Paradox doesn't speak to the idea that we might be interesting but have no useful resources for alien life. We are sending our best, most efficient technology to scope out Titan. As for Titan, yes, let's look at it, go humanity, get us away from this doomed-to-fail star. The strange thing is, Titan has a liquid cycle that's incompatible with our life. Methane is a liquid on the surface, it evaporates and forms clouds, it rains down, and it freezes. As a satellite, I think its challenges (time behind Saturn) would inhibit free energy to the end that nothing could use CH4 like we use H20.

But my intent is to add to the Fermi Paradox. I know that "not interesting" can include our planet, our technology, and all that, so I'm not going to do it very well here, but, maybe there's a chemical makeup that includes intelligence, yet does not follow our own chemical makeup allowing for life. Salt, or NaCl, is literally a frozen version of a compound on earth, and of course we need it. In the expanse of the universe, who knows what's frozen and what's liquid. Maybe a reason to not communicate with Earth has no special parameters other than there are not useful compounds here. If life can be based around solid/liquid/gas, like we have with H2O, theoretically it can be based around solid/liquid/gas, like Titan has with CH4. My position is, if it were true that interstellar or intergalactic travelers exist and brush past Earth, the likelihood is high that Earth's inherent compounds are not resources to those travelers. I still don't think we get alien visitation, buuuut, it might take some time to get across empty space if somebody clued their alt-chemical homies into stopping by, if you wanna get spooky. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:52, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I understood it was carbon's ability to form complex compounds that was a key factor to life.
Given that Earth presently has satellites in orbit, cities lit by night and other key markers of 'a species that can be communicated with and which probably would not be too surprised at the visiting aliens (only the particular form that they take). Anna Livia (talk) 10:54, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Astrobiology mentions this and there's a lot of speculation on Hypothetical types of biochemistryWikipedia. But I agree that the Earth might be rather uninteresting for those looking to harvest chemicals or minerals. Its greatest resource is probably its biodiversity, ideal for alien zoos and sideshows. So kill all the animals to prevent alien invasion. --Annanoon (talk) 11:08, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

might not they just pop in for a chat? AMassiveGay (talk) 13:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

The argument seems to be framed by a few assumptions:

  1. There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are similar to the Sun, and many of these stars are billions of years older than the Solar system.
  2. With high probability, some of these stars have Earth-like planets and if the Earth is typical, some may have already developed intelligent life.
  3. Some of these civilizations may have developed interstellar travel, a step the Earth is investigating now.
  4. Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years."
I would criticize the assumptions as follows: 1) and 2) are reasonable assumptions. 3) Has probability x. We have no idea of its value. 4) At a slow rate of speed intelligent beings would be unlikely to spend their lives isolated many thousands of light-years from home, so it is probable only automated systems would contact earth, probably enabled by radio location. As the earth is 4.5 billion years old, the probability y that such an explorer would arrive on earth during the period of radio civilizations is probably no greater than 1 in 45 million. Ariel31459 (talk) 15:27, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Space travelling species are far more likely to find planets with 'organic soup (of various kinds); - some of which is useful for recharging the food machines, and 'non-sentient life (whether or not as we know it)' than 'sentients you can discuss the weather, awful TV and useless sports teams with, and exchange overpriced tourist tat with.' And planets that do not have 'lawyers, NIMBYs, teenage computer-re-arrangers, survivalists, Professor Branestrawm inventors and other nuisances' are so much easier to extract minerals from. Anna Livia (talk) 16:52, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Hahaha, so we might also be more trouble than we are worth for the resources, and they could be found somewhere else. I definitely feel that. Things like the Star-Trek principle of non-interference make more sense when you consider we are still arguing about reaching a level 1 civilization on the Kardashev scale. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:43, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Got a question and I am not trying to be stupid. I just don't know

If a guy is a transgender woman and said person has a kid, does the kid start addressing their dad as mom after the sex change operation? Again, not trying to sound stupid. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 13:57, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd call it a fair question, but one that will ultimately be between the child and their parent(s), just as one might handle a stepmother or stepfather. TheTallMass (talk) 06:06, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Does a sex change matter? If a gal says they're a gal, that's it. Oxyaena Harass 14:14, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps we need legislation to deal with this matter. nobsI'm all yea'res 19:00, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Banned. Nah, I don't think there's a real answer for this, but the sentence structure does fault a little around noun "is" (implied now) qualified noun. As an obfuscation, you've written a really clever question. But since I know you're not trying to sound dumb or be stupid, the idea that every parental transition should end with every member involved using the same titles is you just not getting it. I call Mom and Dad by Oma and Papa now, usually. Papa loves it when I remember to call him Papa, Oma loves it when I accidentally call her Mom. I would not go so far as to wonder how transgenderism works in a family. We couldn't even get the 4th to work in ours, and nobody is confused about gender there. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:09, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps we should look to the Bible for answers.... Nope, nothing there. Oxyaena Harass 04:27, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Dealing with North Korea (or other dictatorship)

It seems really difficult to find a good strategy to deal with North Korea, or dictatorships in general. If you go to war, then a lot of innocent people will die, and they are mostly the same people you'd like to protect from the dictator. If you kill (or just bring down) the dictator, then you destabilize the area creating a vacuum of power that it is usually filled by another dictator, maybe even worst than the first. If you try economic sanctions, these hurt the population and make the dictator country even more closed to the world. If you try to reason with the dictator, you can be accused of being a sympathizer or even his accomplice. If you do nothing, you are accused of turning a blind eye... Thinker(unlicensed) 14:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

You're leaving out many possibilities within a patchwork of diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military responses. Economic marginalization and targeted sanctions for those in such regimes who are responsible for repression, like the Magnitsky Acts, including freezing of assets linked to war criminals and top politicians in "pariah regimes." Banning obvious hostile and destabilizing propaganda outlets (why the hell is Russia Today broadcast in the West)? (Concealed or open) support of indigenous rebel groups that aren't at least as bad as the tyrants they live under. Nobody wants to go to war, but there are things you can do short of that. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 16:07, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
depends very much on the relative strength and stability of a country, who supports it, and what consensus you can get for any action. castro stayed in power for decades, despite us sanctions, andplaces like Saudi are paying customers. things like human rights only seem to matter when the country in question goes with a competitor. not so long ago, after the end of the cold war, tyrants and corrupt governments who one side or the other had installed or propped up, must have been pretty nervous as they saw their usefulness to global politics diminish. just lately I think they may be beginning to breathe a little easier. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:06, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm afraid the discussion is getting too abstract. My question was really about North Korea. I added "dictatorships in general" but I regret that since, as it has been pointed out, it depends to much on the country stability. Thinker(unlicensed) 17:11, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Invading North Korea would simply not be worth it. Lets take the War in Iraq as an example. While Iraq had a nutcase for a dictator and he was monstrous, Iraq was a stable country. When we killed their dictator, things in the Middle East went to shit quick and caused further Anti-American sentiment to rise. North Korea, while it is a dirt poor country with a nutcase leading it- the country is more or less stable. Think of the humanitarian crisis that would begin and hate towards the US would increase. Just not worth it. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 17:13, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
its never been about invading nk, its more about what leverage you can apply. we don't want to strangle it so much that collapses completely, it is unknown what kind of humanitarian that would create. and it is not solely about nk. there is south korea and china, neither of whom want to deal the fallout, and china is already propping it enough to prevent that.
even with chinas support, north korea is still starved. we can still refuse aid to apply pressure, but what for? what is the goal? Regime change is not the goal. it never has been. the current focus is on its nuclear capability. to deal with that you have ask why they need it. and the answer is the us. north and south korea are officially still at war. an incredibly devastating conflict in which the us was pivotal. and while the south rebuilt with us help, the north turned in on itself, its wounds festering, stagnating, growing ever more paranoid. I understand that the general public are lead to believe that the us could invade at any moment. the great enemy. its kept fresh in their minds that us is responsible for much of the devastation of war, with the us military just over the border ready to strike. whatever kim tells his public, he is aware they cannot stand up to us might. we can all remember what happened to Iraq. a nuke might give the us pause though.
the us is the problem. trump is the problem here. dialogue and the easing of tensions is needed to lessen the paranoia. convince the north that they are not going to be invaded. build mutual trust that they could abandon their nuclear problem and not leave themselves vulnerable to attack, and any incentives would be real.
trumps hasn't done this. hes insulted kim and hes threatened north korea with destruction. hes been bellicose and reactionary in public statements, and in person kims seen him do nothing but flatter. we in the west mock kim for being overweight and a loon, but hes been sharp enough to avoid a coup. he will have seen trump as transparent. a two faced liar, who cant be trusted. and so the us cannot be trusted. the whole world saw trump wreck the nuclear deal with iran, going back on the its own agreements. hes shown the world the us cant be trusted. that's why north korea will keep its nukes and why iran now seeks them.
south korea have done much to cool things down to keep open a dialogue, but with trump at the helm of the us, the north will keep its nukes. south korea must hold their breath everytime he tweets. it will be them that bear the brunt if a hasty threat over twitter is mistaken for an imminent threat. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:16, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
North Korea is a Chinese proxy. The CCPWikipedia controls the military, while Kim has complete control over society and politics. It's a working relationship. Kim is not an unrestrained dictator. If Chairman Xi says the nukes have to be removed so Xi can get a better deal with Trump, the nukes will be removed. Then Trump makes trade concessions to both North Korea and China. Just watch. nobsI'm all yea'res 09:20, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Dictatorships that have been effectively toppled by outside force to be replaced by a stable democracy in history: ... Japan. The end. That's the whole list. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 13:41, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Add Germany to that list too, at least West Germany. Oxyaena Harass 14:17, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
East germany being an awful tyranical state for years because the outside power that toppled Germany felt like it seemed reason enough to not count it to me. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:45, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Exactly. East Germany, West Germany, modern Germany and/or Japan are not free to pursue nuclear weapons or its own foreign policy independently of the senior members of the alliance any more than North Korea is. Kim is a CCP puppet who only exists because of the will of the Chinese. nobsI'm all yea'res 16:12, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
that's all entirely false. kim is no puppet and you vastly overstate the control has over north korea. if it was anything like you suggested, their nuclear program would already have ended. despite being its sole trading partner, the supplier of most aid, this does not provide as much leverage as you think. china could if it wished, cut off its oil supply, and kims would regime collapse. that's why they wont. do think china wants to deal with the fallout from that? Do think they would want the us stepping in to deal with it, leaving their military presence on its door step?
china has already flexed it muscles to curb nk's nuclear program, halting the oil supply for a few days after a previous missle test and north korea still has a nuke. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:07, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Duh, what do you think is the substance of Trump/Xi talks? nobsI'm all yea'res 17:22, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
trade mostly. and it doesn't answer exactly what they could do that would rein in kim. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:28, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Since 2002 and Chinese MFN (most favored nation status), China has used nuclear blackmail via its proxy North Korea to rape the US in trade deals. Trump tariffs say "game over." If China wants to continue its prosperity, it must de-nuclearize the Korean peninsula. In exchange, both China and North Korea get trade concessions from the U.S. nobsI'm all yea'res 17:37, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Chairman Xi has already given Kim instructions. nobsI'm all yea'res 17:51, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
that all assumes china will just roll over for trump. they haven't yet. as for the article, it doesn't say anything like what you suggest. more like china will providing nrth korea mre support. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:56, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Duh, the article says Chairman Xi put his stamp of approval for Kim to go ahead with his bromance with Trump, which Trump demands de-denuclearization to happen. nobsI'm all yea'res 17:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
are you fucking dense? the article talks about china saying we should ease up on sanctions on north korea. it talks about china providing aid outside of sanctions or just flat out making a hole in them. it talks about if talks with trump don't pan out, it will give kim 'North Korea to gradually shift from the U.S.-North Korea Plan A to a ‘new path’ Plan B'. no where does say he will have to give nukes and no where does it say china will insist he give nukes. no special instructions. no nothing. you did read the article didn't you? AMassiveGay (talk) 19:26, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
even if trump somehow got kim to end his nuclear program (are you going to believe if he says its finished) it will be because trump gave too much into. we all know how he loves a dictator. don't be surprised he leaves the meeting with kims gis on his face. AMassiveGay (talk)
It's all in the works. President Moon of the ROK will get credit and probably a Nobel Prize, as a face saving jesture to Chairman Xi for bowing to Trump's demands. This will play well both in China and US domestic politics, while Kim and Moon get to share hugs and kisses in an Oslo ceremony. That part of the deal is already worked out. Eric and Don Jr. then get to build a Trump hotel on the beautiful shores of North Korea after Trump leaves office, and the people of North Korea gain from trade with the U.S. like South Korea, Japan, China, and Vietnam has looong before the communist scum of Cuba. China trade with the U.S. is "normalized," meaning it ain't gonna be like it used to be between 2002 MFN and 2017. None of this is rocket science, ya know. nobsI'm all yea'res 23:49, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Freeman on the Land bullshit for all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zHRQn_IShw

I know the video is entitled "Crazy Feminist Gets Arrested" but this is more along the lines of Freeman on the Land BS. Though it is possible this woman in the video is an ultra-extreme variety of Feminist that does not represent moderate Feminists. This woman uses every Freeman on the Land argument there is. Woman was extremely lucky the cop was not one of the ones who use extreme force. Freeman on the Land is total bullshit --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 17:33, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

You can't fool me, that was posted on Admiralty Law YouTube! CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 17:44, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
A case of them being all at sea? Anna Livia (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
@Anna Livia Freemen on the Water, and barely treading it. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 18:04, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Obviously a fringe position. Kencolt (talk) 00:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
@Kencolt I'm flagging that comment as funny. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 15:01, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Earth is a Tetrahedron!!!! Made a video that proves it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YD25MmksCA&feature=youtu.be

My parody video is made and I intentionally made it with poor quality. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 23:24, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

The spelling mistakes are a nice touch. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 00:12, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Actually the Earth is a Flexagon. Anna Livia (talk) 12:26, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Maybe the funniest is still #ResearchDonutEarth CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Gene Ray would like to have a talk with you.... Oxyaena Harass 14:13, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
@Oxyaena TimeCube is the ace of trumps of nutbaggery. You win this round... CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 14:25, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I miss Time Cube. RIP Gene Ray. Oxyaena Harass 03:55, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Social Constructs

I never understood the use of this concept, and thought that it could just be a social construct itself. I found this picture online, 1, and I can say from experience that I've heard this narrative in arguments online before, e.g. people arguing that the heterosexual family to the left is a social construct, but never arguing the same for the transgender woman, more or less. So what I'm wondering is, how did they come to this conclusion and what do you think counts as a social construct? ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ (talk) 17:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

No one needs to argue that relatively new conceptions of complex things are social constructs, because the "default" reactionary(not as in political alignment) position is rejection as "that's made up", as if what came before wasn't. The conceptualization of "Transgender" is 100% a social construct, though there are things that feed into that construct that do transcend history and culture, and we can demonstrate some degree of biological basis for them. Just as there are components of human behavior that feed into the social construct of "democracy" that are present in all societies throughout history, even if a government built "for, of, and by the people" would be considered a ludicrous concept.
What "counts" as a social construct is naturally subjective. But the criteria isn't hard: they are beliefs about "how things are" that are, in fact, inconsistent across cultures and subcultures. That's a broad-ass category.
Social constructs aren't any of the following: fake, imaginary, based on nothing at all, unimportant, or useless. If you use the term synonymously with those words, you'll end up confused and wrong about a lot.
  • Currency is a social construct, but it dictates a lot about how we live, and you bet your ass the physical dollars are real. But we've seen societies without it.
  • Religions are social constructs. God might be imaginary, but the people preaching about him in the streets aren't.
  • The scientific fucking method is a social construct. We all love it, it's based on extremely sound philosophy. But that approach would be meaningless to an ancient Greek philosopher, unless you convinced them of its soundness first, because science isn't a fundamental part of all societies.
  • Elections are a social construct. They're important as fuck. But the unwritten(and written) rules about how they work, they're something our cultures has pieced together over centuries.
  • Nuclear families living in isolation from extended families and clans are a social construct. A fairly recent one in fact, mostly dating only to the 20th century as a common practice. That doens't mean they're useless. They can be a very effective way to take care of children in a capitalist economy that expects 8 hours of work 5 days a week.
So the problem isn't with it being a vague concept. It's with you trying to take it as answering the question of "is this real?" rather than "is this a fundamental part of society that can't be changed because of human nature?" ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 19:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Conceptualization of transgender as 100% a social construct? Hmmmm... Controversial statement, that is, to put it mildly. And vague. Dendlai (talk) 18:38, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Question: You seem to be arguing that sticking an erect penis in a wet vagina is a social construct. nobsI'm all yea'res 20:05, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Nobs, please shut the fuck up. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 20:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't think I've ever heard any liberal use the phrase "artificial social construct" to describe heterosexual relationships, and a Google search reveals little. Someone did make a stir with some "die cis scum" post back in 2012, but it only circulated on some relatively fringe-y blogs from what I see -- again, I personally have not heard that argument. While there is some social construct to be explored in many things as ikanreed points out, that's a question best explored in sociology terms, and not in response to a rather idiotic straw man fallacy meme. Soundwave106 (talk) 21:06, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

I think, more generally, the term "social construct" can refer to almost any recognizable pattern in a society, and, as has been said, may well vary from culture to culture. Religions, language, traditions of family, gender practices, etc. It is a term of art for persistent social patterns. If one is involved in a cultural tradition, such as Thanksgiving, or a marriage ceremony, one participates in a social construct. The term is commonly used for patterns that are not biological. "Social construct" is sometimes used to imply a nominal fallacy. Since any persistent characteristic of a society may be called a social construct, it doesn't really tell us anything we don't already know when we recognize X as a social construct. As has been suggested, there may be biological factors influencing constructs. That part of the answer is hard.Ariel31459 (talk) 22:38, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

An act of coitus is a natural phenomenon; monogamy traditions (which are the result of public health concerns and spread of STDs), cohabitation laws, issuance of marriage licenses, etc. are social constructs. nobsI'm all yea'res 22:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
The arguments I've had can't be found in a google search (I hope), and since the person I was up against did most of the talking, giving me essay after essay about social constructs and the nuclear family, I didn't bother to read all of it. I'm not entirely sure if s/he thought heterosexual families were SC's, or the nuclear family. Either way, I don't understand the goal of it all. What did the one who conceptualized the idea think they could accomplish with it? ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
The institution of slavery, for example, is a social construct. So are sovereign governments and the judicial system. So is marriage and religion. The Free loveWikipedia movement of the 1960s attempted to "liberate" people from "social constructs'" with Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, Black Liberation, North Vietnamese liberation of the South, etc. nobsI'm all yea'res 23:59, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
nobs, pulling through. Social constructs inform morals, morals inform social constructs. It is useful to keep the feedback loop between morality and social constructs open and fluid and transparent in order to keep power working towards progress. But, uhh, the balance don't seem so balanced, by your examples. Mosta this shit was and still is considered unacceptable by the powers structures today because the power wasn't balanced, what 60 years ago? That's not a very long time to say "we tried it, socially, and it failed." Society has not collapsed yet, maybe modern society is more resilient to changes in constructs and morality than some people seem to give it credit for. Is this because we've stuck to our old constructs, or because we've shifted our morality to accept a broader construct?
We get to define both, that is what social construction implies. Our personal morality may defy social constructions, and that is not good or evil, that's just how it works. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Co-inkidinkly, saw video last night where a woman pointed out that nations and borders are social constructs. So obviously, like slavery and religion, they must be torn down. nobsI'm all yea'res 14:17, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

You are not the body (which sounds like a HUGE stretch)?

“The "inevitable" demise is the illusion itself. There limitation of having only those "options" is the illusion - the notion of "utility" is what is samsara/maya. When the man realizes that he is neither the doer of action, nor the enjoyer of the strawberry, has no volition nor efficacy and that he is the tiger himself as well as the strawberry as well as the man - then he has metaphorically climbed up and killed the tiger. You are right in the sense that it is not an "option" - killing the tiger is the reality, the true reality, beyond the "options." It is scary because it is not meant for the faint hearted, However, on a tangible non spiritual level you are correct, however if after reading this you still believe that you exist as an individual conscious being in between birth and death and have to get "the most you can" out of "life" then I have not done a good job with this, and have failed you. Truth is you don't need the strawberry, never did - and yes you can "win" against the tiger. But don't take my word for it, try it yourself.”

Based on the story linked here about the Tiger and the Strawberry: https://anandbhatt.skyrock.mobi/3289760168-The-Most-Misunderstood-Buddhist-Story-The-Tiger-and-the-Strawberry.html?success=1

Because from all the evidence that I see and know, even if you make the argument that there is no "Self" (IE little man riding around inside the head) it's pretty hard to deny the brain is the result of consciousness and that consciousness is the result of biology.Machina (talk) 05:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, it's hard just to be, but which bird understands the hurt of the bitter fruit? Who dies at the claw of the tiger and gets back up? Resident nihilist here. The important thing to lose in the "self" in this story is the experience. Cast off the uncertainty of choosing the sweet or bitter fruit, and you'll subsist on good vibes. But you've watched all us taste every bitter fruit by now, obviously, because that's just a story and that's how it goes. And there's still no use in it tasting fruit, that it may be bitter? At your most brilliant moments(royally, I mean every reader and myself), you are a foil unto yourself. Lonely people only say what they want to hear. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 07:46, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to get at here or how this has to do with nihilism. I mean I guess the one below understands the hurt of bitterness while the one above seems to be in their own dream world. What I think is that the true reality they speak of seems more like what they convince themselves is the true reality. His answer about the tiger is nonsense, and to me it sounds like the eternal human obsession with immortality. Most societies have a form of it and if the reason you don't fear death is because you believe you are "immortal" then that's more like running from death than anything else. But again, still don't know what you are getting at there.Machina (talk) 17:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Machina, why does every post you make sound like the fever dreams of someone high on acid? Oxyaena Harass 08:56, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
It's Eastern philosophy, take it up with them.Machina (talk) 17:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
“The "inevitable" demise is the illusion itself." I thought this thread was about the Mueller Report. nobsI'm all yea'res 23:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
How could you possibly think that given the title?Machina (talk) 03:53, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

What if...

...Elon Musk would run for US presidency in 2020 and win. Would this be good or bad (I've seen some controversy about this guy, so.)? Tinribmancer (talk) 10:34, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

The guy who keeps shooting his mouth off on social media and getting into hot water because of it? uh... no thanks. Let him stick to inventing stuff (which, apart from that weird train thing, he's pretty good at). Avida Dollarsher again 12:44, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
A bad thing. Almost any of these Silicon Valley types in the White House would be a very bad thing. We already know how businessmen tend not to do well in office, but IIRC Silicon Valley CEOs are, for some reason, particularly childish. RoninMacbeth (talk) 12:51, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Simple solution - create a Virtual White House and Silicon Valley Tech Place. Anna Livia (talk) 09:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Conservapedia Follies Part II: The Illuminati

https://www.conservapedia.com/Illuminati

Pretty short and NOT written by Nobsie. CP doesn't seem to believe in The Imaginatti

I do have a feeling that there's something missing and that some things aren't correct, like Washington being a Freemason (correct me if I'm wrong) and that Weishaupt formed the Illuminati to oppose Jews... Tinribmancer (talk) 12:47, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

George Washington was indeed a Freemason, to the extent that the Masons built him their own monument. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 16:48, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Conservapedia is not too strongly conspiracist from what I've seen, but deep state and Clinton body count are two conspiracies that they do subscribe to, perhaps out of ideological necessity. Both were heavily edited by Nobs. Bongolian (talk) 18:10, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
I know sweet FA about Conservapedia, but I suspect that stories about secret groups using money to pull the strings behind the scenes don't swing their way. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 13:02, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

What will it take for climate change deniers to understand that the climate is steadily going haywire?

Hurricanes in Alaska? The Midwestern United States becoming a desert? How about growing oranges in Scotland?

Alright, it would take a while for that to happen. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 18:35, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Nothing will. So long as there is a cold day, rain, or snow somewhere on earth, they'll say its clearly not happening. Revolverman (talk) 20:04, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
The Midwest will become a swamp, we're not in danger of becoming a desert. Oxyaena Harass 20:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
Becoming a swamp isn't a bad thing... --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 00:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
What will it take? Slave reparations.That will reduce carbon emissions. It's a scientific fact. nobsI'm all yea'res 00:05, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
And what does slavery have to do with climate change? --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 02:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Nothing at all, that's just more of nobs' bullshit. Cosmikdebris (talk) 02:10, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
My bullshit? It was 84 House Democrats and 11 Senators that claim slave reparations, a guaranteed income, and Medicare for All will save the planet from the climate crisis. And you dare question the science behind it? nobsI'm all yea'res 03:34, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Can you bring up a cite not from some right-wing stooge for once? Oxyaena Harass 15:58, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
(whistle) Yellow card! Red herring! Bonus penalty for linking to Yahoo Answers (really)! Double bonus penalty for evoking a variant of Gore's Law (the variant being an attack on completely unrelated liberal policy in general). The climate don't give a shit about what right-wing blowhards says. Soundwave106 (talk) 16:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that, for some changes, what you really need is a new generation for the paradigm change to hit. (The classic example is tectonic plate theory - people who had dedicated their lives to a belief in land bridges never really gave up the idea, they just died.)

So the answer is really "Nothing will convince them, they are too invested in denying it."

Unfortunately we don't really have the time to just let them die off before we actually start doing something. Hubert (talk) 09:18, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Even if the Antarctic turns into a tropical beach, denialists can still blame sunspots, or cosmic rays, or "natural variation", or God. But I think we've reached the stage where most people accept anthropogenic climate change, but they don't see reversing it to be feasible (or they don't think it's worth losing their job, house, and car to avoid a comparatively uncertain outcome), so they may as well try and ignore it. --Annanoon (talk) 12:23, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
So what. You still can get nuked in a minute. Get your priorities in life straight. nobsI'm all yea'res 14:13, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
"We shouldn't act as moral agents because we'll die anyway." Interesting ethical system. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 15:41, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Pretty sure the odds of getting nuked is negligible compared to climate change catastrophes. Actually, environment-wise, nuking human civilization may be granting nature a favor, cough biodiversity around the exclusion zone cough. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 19:53, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

is archiver down?

i can run it if needed Herr FuzzyKatzenPotato (talk/stalk) 01:01, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@FuzzyCatPotato It is down, and please do so. Oxyaena Harass 01:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

rmf 2019 elections

judging by 2017 and 2016, we're supposed to have rmf elections late july-early august. (we forgot in 2018.) people up for election would usually be @Human and @Spud, but @Bob M recused himself from the board.

why do I care? i wanna run b/c ratwiki still needs a proper bank account and still needs form 1023 for 501c3.

is it election time? Mʀ. Wʜɪsᴋᴇʀs, Esϙᴜɪʀᴇ (talk/stalk) 01:12, 8 July 2019 (UTC)