Difference between revisions of "Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?"

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::::::::Fuck allz of youz you fugging fuckz.  Fuggit.  I'm fucking fucked, me.  Fuck.  [[User:Doggedpersistence|'''<font color="#00F0A20">DogP</font>''']][[User_Talk:Doggedpersistence|<sup><font color="#993300">''Marmite Patrol''</font></sup>]] 07:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Fuck allz of youz you fugging fuckz.  Fuggit.  I'm fucking fucked, me.  Fuck.  [[User:Doggedpersistence|'''<font color="#00F0A20">DogP</font>''']][[User_Talk:Doggedpersistence|<sup><font color="#993300">''Marmite Patrol''</font></sup>]] 07:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a good issue to raise. ''Anything'' that isn't on a talk page and thus signed from an ''individual'' represents the site as a whole, as an entity, rather than anyone specifically. So that means controlling the language used, not just profanity but style as well. Well placed swearing has its place - the entire point is that it emphasises certain things with shock value but it loses that value if you over-use it. So, while I wouldn't advocate censoring it, or putting a watershed on the WIGOs or even the front page, I'd advise people to reign it in and colloquial stuff for talk. {{:User:Armondikov/sig}} 08:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::It's a good issue to raise. ''Anything'' that isn't on a talk page and thus signed from an ''individual'' represents the site as a whole, as an entity, rather than anyone specifically. So that means controlling the language used, not just profanity but style as well. Well placed swearing has its place - the entire point is that it emphasises certain things with shock value but it loses that value if you over-use it. So, while I wouldn't advocate censoring it, or putting a watershed on the WIGOs or even the front page, I'd advise people to reign it in and colloquial stuff for talk. {{:User:Armondikov/sig}} 08:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, and if we redo the look and feel of parts of the site, we should get input and respect it, instead of saying "we three agree, and fuck you". Armondikov, I'm not sure where you are coming from lately, but your desire to impose crappy graphics on the site is not impressing me. {{User:Human/sig|}} 09:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
== "UPDATE Rand Paul keeps getting nuttier and nuttier over "hypothetical questions"" ==
== "UPDATE Rand Paul keeps getting nuttier and nuttier over "hypothetical questions"" ==

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What is going on?

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Terry Koeckritz: Conservapedia's valiant defender of child rapists

<beginrant>I find Koeckritz's continued championing of the Catholic Church to be one of his more unpalatable positions. I just don't see how anyone outside of a self-serving careerist priest can defend this organization against what almost everyone agrees is one of the worst crimes imaginable: raping a child. This is one of those things where CP bloggers really confuse me with their "values". You can still say that the Catholic Church does a heckuva job with all of its proselytizing and charity work but say it's leadership has little evidence of its morality, right? I suppose it's just too damn hard to admit that the conservative hierarchy (including Pope Benedict) knew children were being raped, and did nothing about it (such as minister to the raped children and ensure that they received treatment). This is worthy of defense?! Is this how Koeckritz--or anyone with any humanity--would have handled knowing that 200 deaf children had been abused or raped? Apparently yes, because the police and local officials also did nothing. It's stuns me that what I thought was something we all believe is horrific, in reality is only a belief unless one of the stupid organizations we support violates it. So, this enchanted myth that conservatives are all just super-duper grand stander-uppers-for-values is belied by the fact that they still support the Catholic hierarchy, which knew of hundreds--thousands--of child rapes and did nothing--nothing--for those kids but now complain about an anti-Catholic conspiracy because hooray! everyone is a victim, including the victimizers.</endrant> --Leotardo (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

OMG smileysm2.svg Don't forget: Jesus died for our sins so all who believe in him are washed clean in the blood of the lamb. 16:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
Pleeezzz, spare us the anti-Catholic bigotry; whaddya gunna do with civil servants kept on the payroll while in jail for sex crimes? [1] or public school teachers reassigned to other districts? blame the Pope, too? nobsdon't bother me 01:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
To put it bluntly, yes! And they're also gonna blame the pope for the Gulf Coast oil spill, the genocide in Darfur, etc., etc., etc. Conservative Punk (talk) 01:07, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Rob, the current pope explicitly covered up child rape and stopped the police from investigating when he was cardinal for paedophilia (or suchlike). Whatever your politics of religious views, that is indefensible. Hopefully we'll get him for "crimes against humanity" when he touches down in the UK this September. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 01:12, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Yah, well perennial Democratic Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich takes a shitload of money from AFSCME (in fact, one could say they are his only constituency). Civil Servants who are members of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees Union are routinely transfered and reassigned elsewhere to other government jobs after being convicted of sex crimes.[citation needed] You gonna arrest Kucinich, too? nobsdon't bother me 01:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I have no idea what you're prattling on about, but I will attempt to answer what I think you are asking: Yes, I think anyone who covers up child rape should be arrested. Do you differ? (PS. Have you got a cite for that, as that's a pretty strong accusation) DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 01:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Funny, I thought that after being convicted of sex crimes people usually go to prison. But if you say the get transferred to a facility in Akron, well, I guess I'll take your word for it. Besides, isn't there a slight difference between accepting money from a group and being the undisputed head of a group? When that group does something wrong, which one do you usually go after? DickTurpis (talk) 01:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
(EC)I not too sure what you are fishing for here nobs. If a person is convicted of a crime and sent to prison for more than say 1 month, then yes they should lose there job. If they are working in a job where any form of conviction (prison or otherwise) compromises them then they should be removed from that job. The important part is not the transferring, it is the conviction. The Civil Service is not in any way trying to prevent its employees from being convicted, it is dealing with them in the most professional way possible. The Church is actively trying to prevent conviction. - π 02:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Here's one such case Schools Slow To Protect Students ; Districts Have Been Cautious to Act Against Educators Accused of Harming Kids against a public school teacher. Since charges like this are common, many school districts do not contact police and refer it to an internal human resources department. Then, confidentiality rights of the accused worker make it very difficult to get any information about the charges. Here's a case where a female teacher was charged with raping a 13 year old student.[2] she never spent a day in jail, AFAIK cause she was the mother of two small children (incidentally, she was the daughter of a candidate for County Sheriff). Talk about institutional sexism, huh? Here's a case faculty members and the principal eventually were forced out after they tried to coverup a gang rape ationalwiki.comat a football camp by not reporting the incident to police. [3] I live in a small state, but these are only three sensational incidents over the past year that could not be kept quiet. Who's the Pope of public eduction? the US Secretary of Education, or President who appointed him? Someone needs to held to account. nobsdon't bother me 02:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Brilliant, Rob! Your last 2 links don't support your case at all. All they indicate is that sexual assault occurred -- nothing about cover ups at all. Admittedly, your first link shows attempts to protect accused teachers, but if you want to follow blame all the way up the chain of command to the highest offices (which there is no evidence for, but we'll take your advice anyway) then we'll take this to the President, if you like. Let's see, in 2005, when the article was written, I believe the President was one George W. Bush. I'll let you carry out the citizen's arrest, shall I? DickTurpis (talk) 02:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Bzzzz. Wrong. 2005 is the date of the article, not the date of the incidents reported. Also, (a) Department of Education was created by Democratic administration and a Democratic Congress, and (b) need I expound further on the NEA? [4] nobsdon't bother me 03:05, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
So when was the incident? a) So what? b) Yes. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I see your "logic" now. The Department of Education was created by Democrats. Someone in the general field of "education" tried to cover up an alleged sexual assault. Obama is a Democrat. Therefore, Obama is to blame. You outdid yourself here, mate. DickTurpis (talk) 03:13, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I misspoke. There are at least five incidents in the first link, this one for example:
  • [[name redacted] continues to teach with no action having ever been taken against his license, despite his guilty plea to a charge stemming from his grabbing and squeezing a student's genitals while working at a Questa public school... nobsdon't bother me 03:20, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, Rob. Now please explain how Obama, Carter, or anyone except the perp and his immediate supervisors carry blame for this? (Goddammit, here I am falling into the trap again.) DickTurpis (talk) 03:23, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Let's look at the 2005 Albuquerque Journal article, excerpted: "a balance between teacher rights and student safety must be struck.... If the [Public Education Department] revoked a teacher's license and he or she were found innocent in a court of law, the teacher most likely would want to be reinstated....Even warning districts where the teachers move to may be inappropriate. "We can't malign a teacher to a potential employer..."
How is any of this different from the Catholic Church? And because students almost daily complain about sexual assault or harassment against public school faculty and staff, and a volume of cases being a he-said-she-said, only the most difficult and sensational are directly reported to police (unless the student does so themself). So while the school districts are in possession of personal files with allegations of sexual abuse, they can't under law disclose much to anyone without pretty substantive evidence the allegations are well founded. How is anhy of this different from the Catholic Churches handling of the same problem? nobsdon't bother me 03:47, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree, why don't you partition your congressman for mandatory reporting? - π 03:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I see. So a student or an altarboy doesn't like the grade he received, so he/she makes a claim to public school officials or church higher ups the teacher or priest squeezed a boob or pinched a butt, there being no evidence. A personal investigation is initiated with the general rendering the charges are unfounded. The same teacher or priest, who comes in contact with hundreds of kids daily, compiles 2 or 3 unfounded allegations over a ten year period. These files need to be shared then with the FBI, local law enforcement, and the US Department of Education then, under your proposal. — Unsigned, by: RobSmith / talk / contribs
Seems reasonable enough. If they are unfounded, no action needs to be taken. If they are not unfounded or there is a clear patten (something you will not notice if you are not keeping records), then action will be taken. I fail to see what you find hard to understand about this. - π 05:00, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)Nobs, your arguments above dancing around why this child rape is no worse than other abuse is disconcerting. This is an area where the "Yeah, my side said/did X, but you're side also did X so we're even!" kind of reasoning is unseemly. You should drop the strawman arguments. We aren't talking about Dennis Kucinich or teacher files; we're talking about the facts of the matter here. That somebody else somewhere should have their actions legally scrutinized is no argument that we shouldn't take action against the Catholic child rape conspirators. Regarding children making false claims, it's interesting that during the 1980's Satanic Panic a lot of innocent people were arrested and tried for abusing children simply because they were supposedly Satanists (many weren't); yet during the same time there was actual abuse of children being done by Catholic priests but the authorities did nothing about it because they were priests. --Leotardo (talk) 13:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

allegations of misconduct by students against teachers is a problem because they are difficult to prove conclusively. Some school districts have taken to using video monitoring systems to try to catch false allegations. It is even harder with female students in a certain age bracket. They may encourage unacceptable conduct until challenged , and then will claim abuse. In some cases a 26 year old teacher has 17 year old students. There is no easy answer. Trials and convictions may not even be conclusive because it may be one persons word against anothers and unless there is clear medical evidence or other supporting evidence then you need to worry about payback for some other conflict. There is a common belief that a list of allegations, while unproven , simply show the person guilty but smart enough to avoid conviction. That is why in some police departments for example , an allegation which is found to be unsupported is expunged from the record. That said any investigation should be by law enforcement who have some experience finding inconsistencies. The argument that priests are above common law , and answer only to the church is obsolete and any actions taken to conceal a potential crime treated as a breach of law. just my opinion Hamster (talk) 17:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, exactly. Some allegations, short of a confession from the accused, are impossible to prove. And the point I'm making is public school districts have done almost exactly what the Catholic Church has done in similar circumstance, including not alerting law enforcement of the allegations. nobsdon't bother me 04:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
If so, indeed, bad on them. However, the public school system does not have a Pope in charge of the entire organization, in case you hadn't noticed. It's mostly managed - or mismanaged - at a local level. The RCC is a pure hierarchy, and the Pope is the absolute ruler. And the current Pope supervised cover-ups of sexual abuse of minors by their employees. Anyone who does that is evil. Pope or School District supervisor. Both. The current Pope is an evil man, as, surely are some of the school admins you bring up. ħumanUser talk:Human 07:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Again, the question, are the accused alleged or convicted of sexual abuse? and how does the RCC's handling differ from any public school system? nobsdon't bother me 02:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
  1. The RCC does not turn priest over to police if they think they have a reasonable case to answer, the public school system will.
  2. All child abuse cases are handled at the level of Pontifical Secret, there is not Ministerial Secret level in the PSS. - π 02:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Got any cites? The Washington Post says, "most abuse [in public schools] never gets reported..." [5] nobsdon't bother me 02:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Well according to this page by a Emerita Professor of Philosophy and Religion, "In combination, the three documents appear to shift cases of clerical sexual abuse from criminal/civil state courts and the local diocese to the apostolic tribunal of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and attempt to bind everyone involved to vows of absolute secrecy." - π 04:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
But so what, Nobs. What's this have to do with the global, massive, worldwide Catholic child sex abuse scandal? Perhaps you should fork off your concern about this unrelated issue to another thread, because you've failed to explain what bearing one has on the other. --Leotardo (talk) 02:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Other than making the point that failing to report public school teachers to law enforcement -which is a evidently a bigger and more widespread problem than Catholic priests- is done for virtually the same reasons the RCC has often failed to do so likewise, together with the main point the lopsided criticism of the RCC may be motivated by religious bigotry. nobsdon't bother me 03:15, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
But so what again? What does any of that have to do with prosecuting child abusers, those who covered up their crimes and investigating the organization thoroughly to discern the extent of the crimes and the cover-up? That Bad Thing X happened is no argument against pursuing justice with Bad Thing Y. Religious bigotry my ass. It's only because its the RCC they don't get a federal RICO investigation and a detainment of Ratzinger at Heathrow. --Leotardo (talk) 03:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
No, Rob, you moron, it's anti-pedophile bigotry. And if the schools have a bigger problem with it than the RCC, well, let's fix it. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
According to an article in Education Week,
research conducted for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and released late last month. That study found that from 1950 to 2002, 10,667 people made allegations that priests or deacons had sexually abused them as minors. ("Report Tallies Alleged Sexual Abuse by Priests," this issue.) Extrapolating from data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000, Ms. Shakeshaft estimated that roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a public school employee from 1991 to 2000—a single decade, compared with the roughly five-decade period examined in the study of Catholic priests. Those figures suggest that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,"contended Ms. Shakeshaft, who is a professor of educational administration at Hofstra, in Hempstead, N.Y.
So, let's look at a statement to support the contention this disproportionate criticism, and feigned concern about pedophiles is motivated by anti-religious bigotry:
Conservapedia may be small, but it continues the strain of religious fundamentalism in the United States.... They avoid the socialization into American democracy that public school provides.... [6]
Maybe they just don't want their kids molested where the risks are 100 times greater than Catholic schools. nobsdon't bother me 04:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Human's entertaining your straw man Nobs, but I'm not. The reasonable man on the street ain't gonna buy your "Don't investigate the Catholic child rapers and conspirators behind door No. 1 because look at what I got worse behind Door No. 2..." Ugh - you must have to shower each time you find a new way to argue this and hit save. --Leotardo (talk) 04:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Wow, that's an incredibly poor use of statistics, Rob. Comparing actual complaints to extrapolated cases of "some sort of ... abuse"? Please do better before your case is considered made. Anyway, I'm all for locking up the abusers and their enablers. Someone extradite Bernie Law fro the Vatican (spit) and bring him before a court of law please? And, yup, any teacher who can shown to have engaged in inappropriate contact with children (and teens?) should also be brought to justice. Rob, are you defending the RCC's evil just because you think the PSS is "more" evil? Or are you on board with prosecuting them all? ħumanUser talk:Human 04:41, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
actual cases appear to be mostly allegations and the extrapolated reference is based upon a figure 3% of all public school children. Futher, the RCC evidently kept better records than the American public schools which never reported anything to a central authority until required to do so by law. I'm not defending the RCC, I can be highly critical of it on the merits of a theological argument (as well as the Mormon church, Jehovah Witness, or Islam). But anti-religious secularists fool nobody using pedophilia as an argument, while ignoring the far greater abuse and risk of abuse prevalent in secular public schools. As to prosecuting, we're back to the question faced by both the RCC and public schools: short of a confession, witnesses, DNA evidence, or other probable cause, how do you handle allegations that protect alleged victims while preserving the confidentiality and privacy rights of the accused who have not or are not likely to be convicted based on the evidence? nobsdon't bother me 06:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
For god's sake, Rob, are you really saying that the Catholic church was right to cover up all of that child-raping, because it allegedly happens more in public schools? Junggai (talk) 18:06, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm saying the privacy rights of an unconvicted child rapist priest are no different than the privacy rights of an unconvicted child rapist public school teacher, but there appears to be others that would deny those rights while showing special treatment and privilege to secular child rapists based upon their anti-religious bigotry. nobsdon't bother me 03:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm all for separating pedophiles and sex offenders from their potential victims. The Nazi Pope isn't. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Family Value House Republican WIGO

Further to the WIGO about how Conservapedia never addresses things like conservative scandals, Rep Mark Souder resigned over an affair but--haha--it has come out that he made a video with his mistress about sexual abstinence:

Souder spends the first half of the interview praising abstinence programs, discussing distribution of condoms, the concept of “abstinence plus” in trying to keep teen-agers from having sex. Souder goes on to criticize a congressional hearing chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.).

“How is it different having a conservative in control instead of a liberal?” Souder says. “When I was chairman of the committee, we did hearings about how to make abstinence programs better.”

Crickets chirping on Conservapedia, indeed. --Leotardo (talk) 17:25, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to defend CP, but it is a conservative website. I wouldn't expect them to cover a story that paints a conservative in a negative way. Keegscee (talk) 18:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree, but a consistent meme on Conservapedia is that common human failings can be classified by American ideology. So, cheating on your spouse is not a human failing that many people of many ideologies experience, but a liberal failing. Lying to make it seem like you did things that you did not to make yourself seem better is not a human failing, but a liberal failing only done by liberals through their "liberal deceit". Conservatives tend to make these things issues in their campaigns--even when they are guilty of these "crimes" themselves--whereas liberals don't. Conservapedia is almost a comic book of epistemic closure, hypocrisy and double-standards. That's the essence of MDB's WIGO to me. --Leotardo (talk) 18:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Keegscee, It's one thing to write from a conservative point of view but quite another to lie through omission. --ConcernedResident pork chop, for the ladies 19:25, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
No. This is not a lie of omission. Had they described how great Mark Souder is without mentioning his affair, that might be a lie of omission. As it stands, CP doesn't even have an article on him. Keegscee (talk) 20:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. Had Souder been a Democrat then this story would have top billing, and Conservapedia makes claims to having high moral values. By failing to mention this story they are lying by omission by giving the impression that these things don't happen to conservatives. If CP was an electronics hobbyist site then I would be wrong, since the Souder story would be irrelevant to them. CP could avoid this lie by changing their goals to read "We want to publicise everything bad about liberals and everything good about conservatives." --ConcernedResident verb, for the ladies 21:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

For those who don't see the difference between lying about wartime service and a consensual sexual relationship are going to be in for a big shocker in November. Blumenthal probably threw the election back to the Republicans. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 20:05, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely, there is a difference between the two. However, it is important to report on both, especially when CP is certain to report on the sexual escapades of liberals, or anyone that CP has decided to hate. Jimaginator (talk) 20:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Then the WIGO should point out two sexual relationships, one of a liberal and one of a conservative, to point out the hypocrisy of CP. My personal visceral reaction is one of anger towards Blumenthal but one of I really don't care towards Souder. It's a crime to lie about military service. It's not a crime anymore to cheat on your wife. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 20:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does Blumenthal sound like a cough drop flavor. Keegscee (talk) 21:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
CPE, Conservapedia only seems to have "visceral reactions" and "anger" when the story is about a Democrat/RINO/Liberal, and usually the reaction is "they did horrible X because they are liberal". Did you have a visceral, angry reaction when John Kerry had his Vietnam service lied about? Why don't you try editing the cp:John Kerry article to be more accurate on this issue and see how far CP's principles go? If you guys would evidence discernible principles, it would be easier to discuss what you wrote. --Leotardo (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Considering I was banned off of CP, I think editing the article would be kind of difficult until after I create another sock, which I don't plan on doing anytime soon. In reference to John Kerry, I felt some criticism was legitimate, but some criticism (namely the lady who was wearing the purple bandage at the GOP convention) was over the line. However, there's a big difference in questioning someone's service, be it Bush's National Guard service or Kerry's Vietnam service, versus outright lying about where YOU served, which is what Bluementhal did. Blumenthal knew he did not serve in Vietnam, but he still lied about it. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
You really think this? You really think defaming someone and lying--they didn't 'question' they 'lied'--about a war hero's record to a national audience is far less offensive than some local Senate candidate lying to a local gathering but telling the truth to another (Blumenthal has stated publicly he didn't serve, which is what makes him so dumb)? You really think the latter is worse and worthy of a visceral angry reaction? In the first, John Kerry suffered a lot of harm for the Swiftboat lie and defamation is a crime; in the second, the only person who was harmed was Blumenthal by his own actions. Yet you think Blumenthal was worse?! --Leotardo (talk) 22:32, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Blumenthal got caught lying after opposition research uncovered that he had not served in Vietnam. Admitting a lie after you've been caught is no virtue. There is a huge difference between someone, even erroneously, questioning a candidate's military service (which happened to Bush, Gore, Kerry, and McCain) and lying about your own military service, which you should have no excuse to not have knoewn whether you served in a particular function or not. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 22:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
According to Reliable Sources, McCain was grandstanding to piss off the pilot of the plane behind him and destroyed an aircraft carrier in the process. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

We finally hear from Concerned Women for America about Mark Souder in this blog post. Says CWA CEO Penny Vance:

"If Mark Souder is capable of sexual misconduct, it could happen to anyone."

True! If this stone-cold-hot piece of Man Meat can find someone to fuck around with, anyone can. This must, indeed, have those women very concerned about their ugly husbands. Keep your eyes peeled and watch for signs of sexting, Cathy Schlafly! --Leotardo (talk) 19:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Not worth a Wigo, but anyone else notice.....

That while CP has seen fit to blast the call to arms over Tea Party darling Rand Paul's victory and Spector's Loss is PA, they are rather quiet when it comes to the special election for the late Rep. Murtha's Seat. Quoting from the AP: "Both political parties spent roughly $1 million to sway the outcome, and highlighted the contest as a possible bellwether for the fall." Maybe the Teabaggers don't have as much meat in politics as they think Yes, I know that's a bad pun. SirChuckBBATHE THE WHALES!!!! 03:12, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: Tea Party Power---Rand Paul got less votes than the 2nd place finisher in the Democratic primary in that state! (talk)
John Murtha was a national disgrace and I had hoped his aide would lose as he wants to practice the exact same pork-barrel politics that Murtha mastered and that is bankrupting the country. Maybe I feel that way because I'm from one of the blue states that has to fund hillbilly red states who cry about wanting lower taxes as they take more of mine. I sort-of, used-to like Specter because I thought he was a real moderate, but now I think he is an opportunist. It sucks that our politicians suck so badly across the board, and that's about the only message I got from these primaries. --Leotardo (talk) 14:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
You must remember that Obama called people from Pa. bitter clinging to their guns and bibles. Murtha called his constituents rednecks and racists. Both were elected by Pa. So it is not much of a surprise that a district that leans Democrat would elect another democrat. It is a blow to the Tea party since he was endorsed by them.-- (talk) 16:37, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Pennsylvania's 12th District is the only district in the entire country to vote for John Kerry in 2004 but John McCain in 2008. --Leotardo (talk) 20:02, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
However, many people belong to the Tea Party are independents and were locked out of voting. Essentially, Critz ran as far away from liberalism as you can possibly get in order to win. Like a good Conservative Democrat the strategy was simple; be pro-life, pro-gun, oppose Obama's healthcare. Pa.'s 12th district fell for it now he gets to put his votes on record before November. Like the rest of the phonies, he will be outed siding with Pelosi legislation. Notice he didn't have Obama campaign for him, smartest move yet. November is looking horrible for libs.-- (talk) 01:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
What, they couldn't change registration and vote in the primaries? Or were they just too stupid to figure out how to do it? I loves me some teabagger videos, and have wasted many hours on them. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:30, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Sandra Bullock

I know I shouldn't be amazed at an Ed stub but Sandra Bullock's career reduced to three films! I suppose her Oscar was down to Hollywood values. Jack Hughes (talk) 08:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

His light chit-chat doesn't even mention which of the two 'time travel' movies he didn't like and I wanted to know because I didn't like either movie so I thought this might one area where Ed and I have common ground. I dislike the term "brain fart" but it perfectly describes the genesis of Ed's oddly-formatted, grammatically-challenged blog posts. --Leotardo (talk) 15:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
It was Premonition. It's revealed in the history of the talk page. Smyth (talk) 19:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

What is Andy attempting to insinuate about London Bridge and atheist?

Because I can't figure it outimg Is he trying to say that it was only built because of christianity, and that with all the atheism about here nowadays (which unfortunately isn't true, we still have a fair share of theists, although nothing like the scale of fundies our US cousins 'enjoy'), such a structure couldn't be built. I hope he is, because I love the idea that an engineering marvel that exists purely because of the scientific method could only be built in Andyland thanks to the bible. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 15:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I like Andy because it's rare one finds another human so willing to publicly display their ignorance; he understands English landmarks as much as he understands English politics. That's Tower Bridge, not London Bridge, doofus. --Leotardo (talk) 15:32, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Ha Ha! I don't know how I failed to spot that! D'oh! (But in my defence, I'm not a cockney) DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 15:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
That's fricken hilarious! Bondurant (talk) 15:41, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I was calling Andy a doofus, not you :-) You didn't incorrectly name a world landmark on the front page of the "Trustworthy Encyclopedia". Andy's mistake is common for people who have not traveled to London, although it is bizarre for self-professed experts and teachers who should know the name of something they consider a symbol of something (in this case, the strength of pre-Atheism England). Why check things out when you already have Perfect Knowledge? --Leotardo (talk) 15:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Damn, someone politely pointed it out to them. I was hoping someone would be obnoxious and call them stupid for being such idiots, then, after banning, they'd have to either admit the guy was right, or, just as likely, refuse to accept a liberal troll could be right about anything and be forced to insist that the structure must be London Bridge. DickTurpis (talk) 15:46, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)Now we have another idiot--no you fool, they don't call Tower Bridge "London Bridge" in England; they call London Bridge "London Bridge" and they've always been distinct--saying Andy's wrong but right. It's wonderful to be able to construct reality around, "If I can think it, then it might be true." --Leotardo (talk) 16:07, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

That's the one in Arizona, right? ;) ħumanUser talk:Human 00:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Glorious parody from Patrick. Nice job. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 16:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Why's Andy so obsessed with Britain lately? EddyP (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
His mind is running in circles with "Liberal-Conservative coalition?" "Liberal-Conservative coalition?" "Liberal-Conservative coalition?" over and over. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 16:22, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I wish he'd leave us alone. It's so irritating when he constantly displays his utter lack of knowledge of our country. SJ Debaser 17:30, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Side note

Yeah, because people being forced to brutally maim and kill each other to entertain the plebs and a few hedonist assholes is soo fucking Christian -- Nx / talk 15:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I feel a no true scotsman coming on... DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 16:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Side note II: Tower Bridge architect

The Tower Bridge architect, Horace Jones, held the title of "Grand Master of Public Works" as a freemason, a group that historically is loathed by Christians, with Catholics leading the charge, even with a papal ban. Henry Statham, a critic at the time, found the bridge "tawdry", "pretentious" and deceitful. --Leotardo (talk) 16:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Using Andylogic, we can note that many men of the time would have sported fine moustaches. Therefore, this bridge could not have been built had it not been for the inspirational contribution of the proud British moustache. Alternatively he could team-up with Metapedia and claim the bridge as a triumph of the white man before he was weakened by an influx of brown and yellow men. --ConcernedResident escape pod, for the ladies 16:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Careful with that one CR. Hitler and Stalin both had moustaches, and look at the great crimes they carried out, all in the name of 'moustachism'. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 16:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, but they warped the teachings of the moustache and misused them. No true moustache wearer would have done what they did, and I resent being lumped in together with those infidels. --ConcernedResident bear, for the ladies 16:52, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I was trying to find details of whether he was religious or not, because by the late 1800s there were plenty of people that were RINO (Religious in name Only) or just downright not theists. Maybe we should also mention that Britain was able to build such magnificent structures by conquering the world, not too dissimilar from the Catholic Church and its various cathedrals. Aslate (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
WP's article on Jones has a registration-protected biography of him (by Oxford University); I haven't checked if you need to subscribe to get it. If anyone here has access via their uni, perhaps you could get the bio out (after your exams, nach). CS Miller (talk) 23:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


It's a bridge. It's in London. So, it's London Bridge. There is a nursery rhymeimg London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down ...., so it's about this bridge. Screw you, king Olaf! 1894 or 1014, who gives a damn! larronsicut fur in nocte 16:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

London Bridge is falling down... is a hymn according to Andy. The Lulz just keep on coming. Jack Hughes (talk) 16:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Who the blimey calls it cp:London Tower Bridge? That'd be like saying "New York Harbour Statue of Liberty, also known as The Statue of Liberty". Great fact checking there, CP. --ConcernedResident kitten, for the ladies 16:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
"Also referred to simply as Tower Bridge" - that's the only thing it's referred to. If you're a foreigner talking about Tower Bridge, you might say "The Tower Bridge of London" so everyone is clear. If you're a non-English speaking foreigner you might say "London Tower Bridge." So, by my logic, Andy can't speak English... SJ Debaser 17:33, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
As always, maybe I was too hard on Andy. It's perfectly natural to know that there's some children's chant about a 'London bridge' and jump to the conclusion that it simply must be this bridge. Besides, the "real London Bridge" is no longer in Atheist Britain, but Christian 'Round up the Browns' Arizona. Take that, Atheists - your London Bridge is fake and we own the original because In God We Trust and--hahah--you don't so we take your bridges! My favorite Conservapedia drag queen, Ms. Jinx McHue, adds more historical context. --Leotardo (talk) 19:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Jinxie is a drag queen? I didn't know that. Does Andy know? ħumanUser talk:Human 00:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Jinx hi Jinx!- "And rumor has it, Jack the Ripper's spirit is trapped in one of the stones of that bridge. (Sorry. I remember an awful made for TV movie with that plot hook.)"[7] Maybe he should ask Ed to do a poorly written, half-arsed, piece-of-shit movie review informative, encyclopaedia-oriented stub on it. SJ Debaser 09:51, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)In other news, I've ordered Rosie O'Donnell a case of Whisk because I'm tired of all those children laughing at the "Ring around the Rosie". --Leotardo (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC) Andy is an idiot. We know this, of course, but this is simply additional evidence. Take a look at the most common modern version of the nursery rhyme [8]. Now, let's compare the two bridges:

  • London Bridge was originally built in 55AD by the Romans, destroyed in 60AD, then rebuilt shortly afterwards, before falling into disrepair when the Romans left, leaving Londinium (the Roman name for London, as you might have guessed) abandoned. The next solid evidence of a bridge being there is in the late 10th century, during Ethelred the Unready's reign of the region, though it may have been rebuilt before then. It was then pulled down in 1014, before being rebuilt by 1016, just to be destroyed by a tornado(!) in 1091. It was then rebuilt one more time before being destroyed by fire in 1136. It was rebuilt as a timber bridge, then replaced by a stone bridge, which took 33 years to build, starting in 1176. Although various parts fell down and were replaced, or were replaced for other reasons, the next major change was the replacement of the bridge for a new one, which was opened in 1831, then widened in 1906. This was then sold in 1968 to make way for a new bridge, which had already begun construction, and was opened in 1973. This is the current London Bridge.
  • Tower Bridge was opened in 1894 and is still in operation.

Now which of those bridges is that nursery rhyme most likely referring to? (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Soooo...the London Bridge built in Christian England that opened in 1831 fell apart and they found a schmuck in Arizona to buy it; whereas the Atheist England London Bridge, opened in 1973, is still in use. The coolest London Bridge was the one in the 1600's. Rcgallup seems to think that the current London Bridge, in its "awful modernity", is some piece of Socialist Stalinist architecture than the one it replaced. I might agree if it was the 1600s London Bridge, but it more-or-less looks like the 1800s one it replaced. So many opinions...so little thought. --Leotardo (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
No wonder it kept falling down - people built houses all over it! ħumanUser talk:Human 00:47, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, but it looks like it would have been so cool to have a flat in one! Um, unless it fell down into the river. --Leotardo (talk) 04:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
This is very deja vu. Exactly (almost) the same arguments occured on their original The Tower Bridge article which seems to have vanished. Odd. (talk) 15:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
The common understanding in England is that when they sold off London Bridge it was bought by an American who though that he was actually getting Tower Bridge (although like Andy he thought that Tower Bridge was London Bridge if you see what I mean). I guess that Tower Bridge being more distinctive in appearance is the one that gets more photographed and is therefore automatically assumed to be London Bridge. However, virtually all of the front row at CP has ended making fools of themselves over this.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite of Liberal Atheist Nick Clegg's Page

Someone's done a fairly complete rewrite of the Liberal atheist Nick Clegg article and actually put real policies in it as opposed to saying it would be dangerous if he got any power. Wonder how quick they revert it for hiding the dangers of him as being liberal deceit, because it was made by IVotedClegg or whether they'll actually learn anything about the Liberal Democrats? Aslate (talk) 19:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

He's already received the Fuck off! template, so I think the former. --Leotardo (talk) 20:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I followed their reference for "this is dangerous because he's an atheist" to here. Second comment on the article
"What has the British public and God got in common? They don’t believe in Nick Clegg! How long will he last? Not very long, if his predecessors are any thing to go by, he’s another non-runner in the British political race for Number 10. or is he a fun runner no real threat to the big boys."
I bet you're eating it now "Billy". Scarlet A.pngpathetic 12:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

CP:Atheism and satanic deception WIGO

This essay evidences a classically weak intellect. It conflates, repeatedly, Theistic Satanism with lack of a belief in a god. It's kind of a nice fairy tale for the religious to tell themselves: all those Richard Dawkins types have been tricked by wily Ol' Scratch, pity the fools. The essay's second act is the classic mass murder Religion v. Atheism: whose worse? Never mind that the argument is that more murder has been committed in the name of religion than anything else; and that Communist regimes weren't murdering people in the name of their official lack of belief in a god. Because if that's how we are going to make a false comparison, then we are going to have to add up all the state murders by governments that believed in God in the "Religion" total. I'll be waiting, putting everything else in my life on hold, until I see this essay add in the God-fearing murders under Pinochet, Mugabe, Amin, Franco et al. --Leotardo (talk) 04:10, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Wait, are you actually trying to make sense of a Ken turd? Good for you, but that way insanity surely lies. Or tells the truth. You never know. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
But if you assume it's Satan tricking them into believing that there is no God or Satan then it just shows how wicked the devil really is! See, flawless logic. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 11:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Has nobody ever considered that Satan may have tricked people into believing in a God so that they more easily be controlled and thereby suppress free-thought?  Lily Inspirate me. 19:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Man, how easy would it to be for Satan to write a bunch of scrolls, stick them in caves and then manipulate people to find them and make a book out of them? I wonder what he'd call it. --Kels (talk) 22:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

RW has had a please fuck off template for some time

New logo large.png Your welcome to RationalWiki is lukewarm at best, What is going on at CP?.

This observation is due to the nature of your initial edits. Pull up a goat and try not to make trouble.

We realize it is possible that you do not understand the nature of the site or our objectives.

Our Newcomers' Guide may help clarify things for you.

ConservapediaEditor (talk) 05:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, and we use it when people make asses of themselves. But we don't block them. And we remove it if they mature. ħumanUser talk:Human 05:06, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Hey, I got that template when I first started editing here! Keegscee (talk) 05:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Congratulation, what did you do to earn that? - π 05:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
And now KGSC is probably a sysop. Entirely different worlds. ħumanUser talk:Human 05:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
This was my first edit here. I still think it is pretty funny. Keegscee (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

It's even refreshingly free of the implicit Shut up, get to work, make sure I the Admin templating alone 100% agree with what you do or you'll be reverted, blocked, exposed and dead to Baby Jesus until you open your mind and stop your deceit. Godspeed. Wat more you want, CPE? --Leotardo (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I would tend to agree, based upon CP's logs, that your minutes are numbered at CP if you get the warning template. And, I agree with Human that we only put (or only should put) the unwelcome tag if you are totally being an asshole. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 06:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

There isn't a fixed set of rules regarding it. Some people assume good faith and don't bother with the template, others go straight for the block or the bin. I've seen it used less and less in recent months. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 11:38, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Seems ours is a bsic warning to obvious trolls. Theirs is the black spot. DickTurpis (talk) 12:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems from the wording that it could be an excuse to slap it on before an edit has been made. I think that's the major thing people would take issue with. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 12:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Most times that I have seen it used is on BoN pages.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Dawkins and pseudoscience on mainpageleft

Ken is hardly the brightest spark, but surely he must understand the crushing irony of accusing anyone of pushing pseudoscience? I know I might as well be shouting at a table, but fucking hell. [9] Webbtje (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Ken uses the mainpage as his personal sounding board for his pet projects that no one outside of Conservapedia cares about (except to mock), or to promote obscure blogs and Youtube users. It makes an already disorganized page into a visual FUBAR. --BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 14:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
No one within CP cares about them either. --Kels (talk) 22:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

CP silence on new UK government

  • The new Conservative Prime Minister describes himself as a liberal conservative.
  • His deputy is a Liberal Democrat.
  • The new government is a seemingly friendly and collaborative coalition between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrat Party.
  • His deputy is an atheist.
  • The new government is pushing the EU to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 30%.
  • The new government will introduce a levy on banks.
  • The new government will help to make sure civil partnerships are recognised abroad.
  • The new government will increase spending on the NHS.

Among other things. I mean, does this just not compute? We have a green liberal conservative prime minister. Is that like an oxymoron for CP? Ajkgordon (talk) 13:54, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I remember when PJR was trying to explain to Schlafly that the Liberal Party in Australia was actually a centre-right party. He just didn't get it. Bondurant (talk) 13:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I just figured that Andy lost interest the instant the conservatives "won". Once he saw that he stopped paying attention, since it's not America. X Stickman (talk) 16:24, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

This week's Economist cover story illustrated the conservative landslide nicely:

THE youngest prime minister in almost two centuries; the first coalition government in 65 years; the first-ever Conservative-Liberal Democrat government: by accident, British history was made in all sorts of ways this week. This newspaper had hoped that the election on May 6th would return a single party—the Conservatives—with a strong mandate. But after five days of deal-making and denunciation during which it seemed that a multi-party ratatouille based on a losing Labour Party might take power or a minority Tory government be forced to beg its bread at every vote, the best possible outcome given the ropy electoral numbers has emerged: a formal coalition to implement an agreed agenda containing much of the best in each party’s manifesto. We welcome it.

I will never, ever stop loving the addition of landslide to "Conservative words" considering how comically mis-used it was. --Leotardo (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Obama oil spill

What is he supposed to do, stop it? The coastguard was out there within hours, and when they realized and relayed how bad it was Obama sent in the Navy. It's not like people where upset about Bush not stuffing the winds into a cowhide sack and stopping hurricane Katrina, it was because he appointed a horse lawyer to run FEMA and he didn't send in aid so much as he set up a perimeter to keep out bottled water and packaged food. --Opcn (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps they wanted Obama to be personally blocking the oil, with his own body, yelling "save yourselves!" to the wildlife.. MDB (talk) 17:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Or just tarred and feathered. --Opcn (talk) 19:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

loveeeeee the new layout!

Looks good! Now we need to insert this page on the conservapedia article on wikipedia. rational ghey (send a message) 17:22, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, can we lose the "shadow" on the buttons? It looks weird on the big one. That is, it doesn't look like a shadow. ħumanUser talk:Human 18:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Normally I hate change, but this.. this is pretty spiffy! --GTac (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Two thumbs up! --Purple George!YossieSpring in Fialta 00:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Kinda ironic you guys roll out a new layout with much input from the membership and adding useability at exactly the same time as deviantART rolls out their new layout, springing it on the membership as a surprise (no going back, you little shits!) , and removing functionality and generally pissing a lot of people off. Nice to see there's folks can do it right. --Kels (talk) 00:59, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
YouTube, Google, Wikipedia, RationalWiki and DeviantArt too? Why are all big websites (plus RW) changing their layouts all sudden? Vulpius (talk) 01:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Word came down from the master overseers of the liberal conspiracy. tmtoulouse 01:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Probably not far off. From the changes they've been forcing in the last little while, they're trying to make dA into a social networking site along the lines of Facebook but with art. Probably at the urging of the shareholders/investors, since I doubt anyone asked for fucking llama badges and a points system. --Kels (talk) 01:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
The Wikipedia one is just a skin change with the latest version of Media Wiki, it's been available in beta for ages now. Though I don't know what they were thinking with the DeviantART one. The last big change was sort of alright, but this one has taking "streamlining" in the wrong direction. You also have to call bullshit on their brief of "putting your art at the center of attention" - they've but the ad space at the center of attention as it now takes up above 50% of the width when viewing images. Real good ideas guys, rock the fuck on. (although I think that llama badge thing was just an April Fools prank that they forgot to disable) Nothing worth quitting the site about, of course, but there's lots of change that's worse. Facebook's new system for "liking" things, while it's cool that it's linking in with Wikipedia, the fact that you can only add something that exists as a page (granted, they are just glorified search results as before) is just plain limiting and stupid. And I seem to be stuck with a horrid new YouTube layout that seems to be bombarding me with a "stream" rather than what I want, which is the subscription updates at the top as before - not sure what's happened there as it's only the case on some computers... Scarlet A.pngpathetic 06:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
The Wp one was awful and I "turned it off". Change for the sake of change is what it looked like, and it looked like shit. ħumanUser talk:Human 06:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You will get a chance to turn it off here next time we upgrade as it is the default skin for MediaWiki 1.16 onwards. - π 09:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
The Wp one was change for the sake of looking like a modern website, not something from the 90s. Although I think the new logo is really bad - scratch that, they just replaced it with something much better. -- Nx / talk 10:51, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
The evolution of the WP logo is pretty good. You can't say it hasn't gotten much better over time. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 11:01, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
It wasn't for the sake of looking modern - it was done after a lot of usability study. (We have the numbers that say all the people bitching about the search box moving are actually wrong.) The logo change ... that was sprung on everyone. Thankfully the bugs in Vector (the broken search, the slow rendering, the way it doesn't work on odd browsers and actually crashes the shitty browser on a lot of Blackberrys) are actually being worked on furiously - by the time MW 1.16 comes out, Vector should be just fine - David Gerard (talk) 11:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
But you could've just improved the usability of monobook without changing the style. -- Nx / talk 12:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks like it's officially both reasons: Wikipedia:Vector - David Gerard (talk) 12:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
The new look looks more professional. Given that it is suppose to be a reliable source of information, the more professional it looks the more serious people will take it. Looks better is a good reason. - π 12:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
True, although if the content is crap, no amount of fancy work on the skin will make it look reliable (you can't polish a turd). But for the articles that are good, it's a better box to present it in all round. Making a note about the search bar, most web designs put the search bar in the top-right, Vector just brings it in line with that. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 08:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

So websites have to look like This Year's Model, or they are antiques? I have a lot of professional issues with that sort of blinkered thinking. ħumanUser talk:Human 09:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

TK's reading comprehension

After berating Ken for not reading properly yesterday TK goes on to prove what a fucking nitwit he really is. For what's its worth Terry Koeckritz this user is not talking about the headlines you fucking fool!img Acei9 22:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

No, TK got it correct, you got it wrong. C'mon, thinking that her entry was encyclopedic rather than meant to stimulate conservative thoughts? Shame on you Ace --Opcn (talk) 05:16, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
eh? Acei9 06:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
TK's response was based on accepting CP for what it really is. --Opcn (talk) 22:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

a little truth about Jim Bakker

To the brilliant editor who added this "truth" [10] to CP, do you have a scintilla of evidence (in the form of a citation) other than a personal hunch or twisted stereotype that Jim Bakker is a conservative? Thanks. nobsdon't bother me 03:29, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably not. That's why CP is the perfect place to put information like that. Lack of evidence has never been a problem at CP. Is there even a scintilla (word of the day calendar?) of evidence for this? Keegscee (talk) 03:37, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
What makes you think "one of us" made that edit? We can all spell "infidelity" here. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:39, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, since when can some dumb trolling at CP get 50 votes on WIGO? We get it, CP will delete things they disagree with -- there's nothing remotely interesting about the "truth" posted. On the other hand I think that essay is my personal favorite CP page. --Benod (talk) 04:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Agreed; though I kinda liked this one, there's no reason to put it on the same scale as actual CP content, which usually seems like the consensus anyway. That aside, it's nice to see RW is still responsible for all negative feedback at CP (or at least required to defend it). ~ Kupochama[1][2] 05:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
other than a personal hunch or twisted stereotype - Oh come off it Rob, if I had any working irony meters left then you'd have blown the lot. It's a paradox that RW editors have probably done more to improve Conservapedia by adding genuine original content (unlike most of the sysops or homeskollars with their copy/paste plagiarism) or correcting factual and grammatical errors. You of course have certainly added much original and highly amusing material. RationalWiki editors were also prepared to debate facts but if they didn't fit in with Andy's own 'personal hunch or twisted stereotypes' then they were swiftly godspeeded. But to think that all edits which somehow undermine CP's 'message' are made by RW editors just shows how much TK has worked you into a siege mentality with RW as the sole enemy. Get real, there are thousands of people out there who have never heard of RW who find Conservapedia such an object of ridicule that they can't help themselves but join in the derision.  Lily Inspirate me. 09:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You can tell by the rate that WIGO:CP is updating recently that RW is moving on, and almost has moved on already. Most of the co-ordinated vandalism and things that you could genuinely call "attacks" are probably organised via 4Chan or something else. But even then, this is how often? Once a year? Less? It's a nice fantasy that there's a small, co-ordinated group "out to get you" but in reality its a lot of people with a common idea who just have the same response in a given circumstance. They don't need to be an organised collective to make it appear that they're an organised collective. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 11:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I forgot that Rob, of course, is CP's No. 1 conspiracy theorist.  Lily Inspirate me. 07:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I like how the only thing RobS can come up with against the entire list is "WELL DO YOU HAVE ANY SOURCES THAT THIS CHRISTIAN EVANGELIST IS ACTUALLY A CONSERVATIVE?". It's pretty much the same as admitting you don't have any real arguments against the list. Good on you for being honest for a change, RobS! --GTac (talk) 11:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Alright, Rob, what proof do you have that Fred Phelps is a liberal? DickTurpis (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Jim Bakker can't be Conservative, he had sex with a woman! --Kels (talk) 03:51, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

CP reacts to craig venter's artificial life

So far, only Jinx has made a comment, but I look forward to further reactions. Especially from Kendoll. One can only hope for a Project Craig Venter.

Jinx's comment is comically panicked. One typical reaction from the fundies is "ha! this proves life requires intelligent design!" while the other is "nope, he didn't really 'create' life" - mutually exclusive claims, of course, but Jinx goes for both anyway. ONE / TALK 08:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Either way, this should be epic. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 08:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
ooh, I feel another Lenski coming on. Who has a sock to burn in asking Andy to demand to see the data? --PsyGremlinPrata! 09:00, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

This is already becoming a science education disaster. The JCVI produced a synthetic genome that was shown to be functional. Generating synthetic DNA is old news, but this is on a much larger scale than previously possible. However, they used an existing cell. This is sort of like how reverse engineering an OS and running it with existing hardware is not building your own computer entirely from scratch. While this is an important step along the way and an impressive technical accomplishment, it is not even remotely close to being "artificial life". Kalliumtalk 11:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but your headline wouldn't sell newspapers. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 12:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't know, this seems more like it could be PJR's Lenski moment. If only there was a way to incite him to demand to see the "information" they put in. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 12:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
IIRC, all (but its a big all) they did was to
  • Sequence a bacterium's DNA.
  • Make an artificial copy of it, by using a DNA synthesising machine, and stitch the DNA fragments together.
  • Inject this DNA into a different bacterium (of a different species), that had its DNA removed, but keeping the rest of the bacterium's organelles (not that they are called organelles in bacterium)
  • Induce the second bacterium to reproduce using the machine-made DNA. Its descendents' organelles will be the same as the copied bacterium's as they are produced from DNA.
What you end up with is copies of the first bacterium, but it didn't directly reproduce. It's a useful proof-of-concept of an artificial bacterium, but no quite there, yet. CS Miller (talk) 15:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I like the spin on it. But I'm at least pleased he has the brain to pick up on the fact that "artificial life" might be a dubious term. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 17:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
They also removed a couple genes from Mycoplasma mycoides that were thought to be related to making it dangerous to goats[11] (long live the goat!) and inserted a few watermarks (the names of the researchers, a website address, contact email and quotes from James Joyce, Richard Feynman and a biography of Robert Oppenheimer[12] or maybe...) So it wasn't just copying the genome with a genetic xerox machine. --Shagie (talk) 18:58, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
That's a great comic. I've always said I would accept that life on Earth was designed by someone or something when we find the comments in the code. Imagine if someday a commented "new" life form takes over, that is, all its descendants out compete existing life, and evolves into an intelligent species, and finds the watermarks in all their DNA... ħumanUser talk:Human 23:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


Ken, sweetheart, I know you only took four gazillion edits to add your drivel about the Richard Dawkins project to the main page, but I think you'll find it should read, "Conservapedia editors are encouraged to create high quality articles about Richard Dawkins, some of which are mentioned HERE." You're welcome. --PsyGremlinSermā! 09:02, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Jon Stewart is God

Found this interesting tidbit on Conservapedia's page on Jon Stewartimg:

He was the host of the 2006 and 2008 Academy Awards. He is the "Father" in the Holy Trinity of Father, Son (Stephen Colbert), and Holy Spirit (Dennis Kucinich).
— Unsigned, by: Night Jaguar / talk / contribs
Do we have a policy not to out parody or is it just parodists? K61824Ed Poor types in Chinese? 11:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'd say this is a case when it shows why we should neither out parody or parodists, because it's gone now.img Of course, it only took them about six months.... MDB (talk) 11:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Quick. You're welcome, TK. Sorry that we have to do you work for you. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 11:12, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Worse still, Terry Koeckritz's edit broke a Ken perfect run of fifty consecutive edits. I'm not sure what the record is but fifty is pretty good going, even for Ken. Bob Soles (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Shit. Sorry about that. I didn't realize they followed here. *Puts head down in shame* --Night Jaguar (talk) 13:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Some of them read RW more than you do. Nutty Roux (talk) 14:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Do we know if Andy himself reads this site? (My suspicion is that he doesn't, out of fear that our evil secular progressive liberalism would corrupt his precious bodily fluids or something.) MDB (talk) 14:40, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty certain Andy doesn't, but obviously TK, Rob, and Ken do. That's about 50% of the CP users right there. DickTurpis (talk) 14:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Though I think I speak for everyone when I wish Jinxy would come back. I, for one, miss his incoherent penis-bone laden rants. Especially in light of his moralising I've seen in comments left on Ray Comfort's blog. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 14:52, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Those were the good ol' days Jeeves. I loved Jinx baiting. Acei9 20:00, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, we haven't heard the Schukky for ages now. I'm sad. And I wish Bohdan was back too. At least nobs is here. DogPMarmite Patrol 20:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
TK doesn't even try to be subtle about the fact that he reads RW a lot. I mean, this getting posted and it being deleted happened pretty damn quick. Andy probably doesn't (although I sometimes get the feeling that Roger might have a sock here... Blush.gif) and the rest I imagine take fleeting glances at WIGO:CP to use us as a cheap fact checking service, as we have just seen. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 17:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I think they all read us. People, when they know that others are talking about them, have a really, really hard time not wanting to find out what is said. Especially when they can deny they care and nobody is the wiser. --Leotardo (talk) 17:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I doubt Andy "reads" RW at all. He probably came here once, skimmed the first paragraph of our article on him and CP and then went away in disgust. ħumanUser talk:Human 23:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
One wonders whether Andy has ever read anything written by RW editors past the first couple of sentences, even when we were active on CP. RW's problem is we'r just not concise enough for him.  Lily Inspirate me. 07:59, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, if the selective reading of sources and the speed of revisions of long comments are anything to go by, I'd be surprised if he took any of it in, yet alone the whole thing. That said, our article on Andy has so much tl;dr I defy anyone to say that they've read it fully. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 08:38, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I've read both of them completely. Several, nay, dozens of times. ħumanUser talk:Human 09:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly news or anything

I gotta say, the Richard Dawkins Project still just cracks me up. Does Ken really not know how obsessed and insane it makes him look? Has he not caught on that no one else at CP gives a shit, and most of them are probably embarrassed by it? He's made several references to it on Assfly's talk page, but never gets any response, even though Andy responds to almost every other post by any other editor. I'm too lazy, but has anyone counted the number of proposed Dawkins articles Ken's come up with, and how many he's written so far? Must be well over hundred proposed. I look forward to seeing all those redlinks turn blue. DickTurpis (talk) 13:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow besides a bunch of links and a survey which doesn't say what Ken thinks it says (hint nobody considers evolution pseudoscience) cp:Richard Dawkins and pseudoscience contains mostly a quote from his blogger mate. - π 13:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Haha, I love how the first paragraph and the caption of the picture are the same (even the same references) CrundyTalk nerdy to me 14:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Well Ken can look on the bright side. For the almost no people that search Richard Dawkins and pseudoscience at a search engine starting with G, his article will come up first. - π 14:18, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I love Ken's sources; it would be disappointing if he stuck to even the pseudojournalism of News Corp. It's sort of like if I went to that bank and the teller told me she has a blog called "Open Minded Rita" and I started quoting her all over my blog as some kind of authority. "Open Minded Rita notes..." "According to the website OpenMindedRita.com..." --Leotardo (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

But he doesn't just have one blog, he has millions... that makes him totally trustworthy, right? --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 17:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
"OpenMindedRita.com notes" "According to TrulyOpenRita.net..." "RitaThinks.org reported..." Ah yes, that's right. --Leotardo (talk) 19:01, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I just stumbled across Dawkins Watch from Objective Ministries. Content and insanity level are both pretty comparable to the CP version (though the writing is a bit better at Objective) -- I'm not sure I could've picked out which one was parody. This could definitely be another good resource for Ken's project. --MarkGall (talk) 19:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Objective Ministries is Poe, like Landover Baptist Church, just somewhat more clever and harder to detect at first. --BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 20:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. They fell for Gerin Oil. Nutty Roux (talk) 20:34, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Dead at birth

Somebody just finished reading The Alchemist:

God is using Christopher for His great purpose -- So what is holding you back from living an unconfined life? Find your purpose!

Not worth a WIGO, but I think the text should have read, "God is using Christopher for His great purpose and now we are using him for Ours..." --Leotardo (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I think I prefer the inspirational story of Christopher Hitchens, who overcame great adversity at the bar to get another glass of whiskey. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 18:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I prefer the inspirational story of Christopher Walken, who overcame great adversity to be able to dance like this. --Leotardo (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I think you meant this, but I'd never seen that video you posted before and that thing had me just howling with laughter. Pure brilliance. DogPMarmite Patrol 20:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Walken overcame great diversity to deliver more cowbell --Opcn (talk) 04:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Random TK trolling

Looking to pick a fight with Arizona liberals, TK? Sheesh. DogPMarmite Patrol 22:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

High usage of Fuck

This may just be me, but it seems like we have a lot of fuck creeping through on the page. Seeing as how this is a hub page for non-users, I thought we agreed to try and clean up the language in our WIGOs. SirChuckBPenguin Knight, First Class 00:40, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree, while I think on talkpages anything goes, egregious profanity on mainpages may turn off the more discerning user. Acei9 00:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Heh - the last WIGO I wrote was the first one with a curse word in it, and actually - I had noticed fuck in a few WIGOs and I was sort of thinking it was a community norm. Since it's not, or trying not to be, I don't mind toning my own down in the future. I do like the word. --Leotardo (talk) 01:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
The bit that annoys me more is how it is used. It is mostly "OMG you are fucking idiots". If it is WIGO worthy you an usually phrase it with something witty instead of inane. - π 01:19, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it can be done well, and was in the WIGO "User: "Ken, your broken news item doesn't tie up with the source you provided.img" TK: "Well, perhaps this non-sequitur will answer your question, weasel" --ConcernedResident elf, for the ladies 01:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Do we want to try and clean up the ones that already exist? Or just leave them.... I feel vindicated, when Ace agrees it's time to clean up the language, you can take that to the bank. SirChuckBThis country needs more Rutabegas 03:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Not so fast there, Richard Pryor. While I am anti mainpage profanity I am well versed in the vicious talkpage rant. I have always been a proponent of keeping the mianpage clean(ish) and devoid of internet meme's. Acei9 04:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Where did Ace say that? (oops, up above ;)) Yeah, pages like wigo cp should use "fuck" sparingly, for effect, not on every one, as in starting every wigo with "what the fuck was this fucking idiot fucking thinking about fucking x?" OK on talk pages, though. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:36, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Fuck allz of youz you fugging fuckz. Fuggit. I'm fucking fucked, me. Fuck. DogPMarmite Patrol 07:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
It's a good issue to raise. Anything that isn't on a talk page and thus signed from an individual represents the site as a whole, as an entity, rather than anyone specifically. So that means controlling the language used, not just profanity but style as well. Well placed swearing has its place - the entire point is that it emphasises certain things with shock value but it loses that value if you over-use it. So, while I wouldn't advocate censoring it, or putting a watershed on the WIGOs or even the front page, I'd advise people to reign it in and colloquial stuff for talk. Scarlet A.pngpathetic 08:35, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, and if we redo the look and feel of parts of the site, we should get input and respect it, instead of saying "we three agree, and fuck you". Armondikov, I'm not sure where you are coming from lately, but your desire to impose crappy graphics on the site is not impressing me. ħumanUser talk:Human 09:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

"UPDATE Rand Paul keeps getting nuttier and nuttier over "hypothetical questions""

Those links aren't about CP, perhaps cut and move to wigo world? And what's with the recent spate of really stupid - misspelled and irrelevant - wigos? ħumanUser talk:Human 04:51, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

or just delete. Nothing to do with CP. Acei9 04:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
True indeed. And no one bothered with this as far as I can tell. Poor Ken. Amirite or was that 24 hours ago? ħumanUser talk:Human 04:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Wha? 800 is damn good, but which one?

I only got a 790 myself Who is andy bragging on, the 8-10 people who are still conservapedians are all too old to be taking the SAT's. --Opcn (talk) 05:37, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably one of the homskollars? I think he took the writing class "off CP" so we couldn't see the rough drafts, and perhaps to allay parental concerns. I wonder how the student on the math and essay portions? Also, why did they take it twice if they aced it the first time? Also also, I bet anyone could get Andy to denounce the SAT battery as liberal claptrap if they tried with four brain cells. ħumanUser talk:Human 05:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


I'll bet Don Macelroy Reads CP, which is the best case I've ever heard of for a DDOS attack on a site. (which I am not advocating in any way, and neither should you) Jesus they are gloating about ruining the next generation. --Opcn (talk) 07:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Alright, what's this all about then? I have a friend named Don MacElroy. ħumanUser talk:Human 07:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
This and this. You being not a yank it might not mean to you what it does to us. --Opcn (talk) 07:56, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I've said it once before and I'll say it again: I wouldn't shed one tear if Texas seceded from the US. In fact, the entire south can go for all I care. Keegscee (talk) 08:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)