Difference between revisions of "RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the world?"

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(To whoever put in the Coleman Wigo)
(To whoever put in the Coleman Wigo)
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Not cool.... Seriously.... A person's death is not an occasion for mockery, laughter or political points. {{User:SirChuckB/sig|}} 07:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Not cool.... Seriously.... A person's death is not an occasion for mockery, laughter or political points. {{User:SirChuckB/sig|}} 07:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:It is WIGOs like that one that make me glad I have 5 IP address. {{User:Π/Sig|}} 08:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:It is WIGOs like that one that make me glad I have 5 IP address. {{User:Π/Sig|}} 08:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:1. They couldn't even spell "world" for the poll ID.  2. It was so stupid I commented it out. {{User:Human/sig|}} 08:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

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What is going on?

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light at end of tunnel WIGO

Maybe. A couple of scientists believe that's what it is, but they're just guessing. They really don't know because they lack evidence. But we won't let that stop us from portraying it as settle science! — Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs

Polish President Lech Kaczynski + 97 others die in plane crash

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_russia_plane_crash - SMOLENSK, Russia – Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 97. Refugeetalk page 17:59, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Arresting the freaking pope

Okay, so Hitchens and Dawkins want to put a case together. I think that's awesome. However, I've been reading comments to the effect that people think they're just being self-agrandising pricks and not really doing it for justice, just as publicity. I can see where they're coming from but I don't think it holds too much. Firstly, the comments that say such an action should be left to the civil authorities don't hold because it's very clear that the civil authorities aren't going to do anything about it. It's often "self aggrandising pricks with axes to grind" that are the soul cause of any progress. Would people levy the same comment to Martin Luther King Jr when it was clearly a case for the civil authorities to create racial equality? Probably not. Secondly, they're not just "making a point" for the sake of it, they're making a bloody good point. That just because this man is the head of a religion, he's somehow immune from criticism or arrest. Horseshit, in a fair and just world this sick fuck would be langishing in a jail cell with every other fucker who was told to rape children by an imaginary friend. Civil authorities aren't going to do this, the population at large aren't going to deliver the swift mob-based justice they're known for, so we may as well hope Dawkins and Hitchens can pull this off. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 13:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Two words: Papal infallibility. SJ Debaser 13:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately he's a "head of state" under diplomatic immunity while visiting the UK. Though what a pissant little place like the vatican is doing with statehood always amazes me. yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade) 13:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
See also Hat tip yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade) 13:55, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank Mussolini for that one. As I said in the CP WIGO, I doubt anything will come of this, but if it does, it will be absolutely fascinating from a legal standpoint and hilarious from a fundie-bashing one. Webbtje (talk) 14:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually, the better question is "will the Pope resign if Hitchens/Dawkins/others keep putting pressure on him?" Benedict is taking a lot of flak, but Papal resignation is still an unprecedented gray area. Tetronian you're clueless 15:07, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
The Times story: Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI is one hell of a headline. Unfortunately, he said no such thing. This is not the first time that words been put in his mouth, and it probably won't be the last. On the other hand, he does have strong views on the subject.
I linked to that above (see also). yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade) 16:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
Code Pink did it first. (talk) 17:37, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
It's interesting to see it from Dawkins' own mouth on his website, actually. Possibly yes, nothing will come of it but it needs to be shown that the Pope is an asshat and is far from immune or infallible. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 19:26, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Waltke's "resignation"

Interesting analysis Hat tip yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade) 12:38, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Chemical warfare tests

Nothing new really. People in my home town are still pissed about the secret tests involving spraying cadmium on the population. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 12:41, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Tory billboards WIGO

Sorry Armondikov, but I voted it down, purely because I think this is pretty funny! DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 22:52, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is. But it's the ONLY one!! Scarlet A.pngd hominem 23:03, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
This one being a distant, distant second in the level of wit. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 23:06, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, I farted.
This page has been
gas attacked by SuperJosh.
I like the one that says "I've never voted Tory before... because I'm not a cunt." Juvenile indeed, but I've never considered myself a recipient of high-brow humour. SJ Debaser 23:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Sexy Kids

Did anybody catch the dateline on that Bishop of Tenerife article? It's Dec 27, 2007, a bit late to be included here, no? Jsonitsac (talk) 12:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I commented o it on SB a while ago. 16:33, 24 April 2010 (UTC) yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade)
30 months old or not, it still reflects on the RC church's Neutralization of the issue. Jack Hughes (talk) 13:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

More disclaimers like this please

"*STANDARD REG SCIENCE QUALITY WARNING: The chance that we are following this correctly is roughly equivalent to that of a man with no arms throwing a handful of jelly through a falling doughnut at fifty yards without touching the sides." [1] 16:31, 24 April 2010 (UTC) yummy Toast&  honey(or marmalade)

Relate Counsellor and gay clients

My fvaourite bit of the article

Lord Justice Laws said legislation for the protection of views held purely on religious grounds cannot be justified. He said it was irrational and "also divisive, capricious and arbitrary".

Yay!!!! Jack Hughes (talk) 13:02, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I almost included that quote in the WIGO. You gotta love it! –SuspectedReplicant retire me 13:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
The second sentence in that a rather good summing-up of religion. It is good to see this kind of response. Allow this guy to refuse to work with gays and really there's no reason why he shouldn't also insist on not having to work with white or handicapped people. --ConcernedresidentAsk me about our fritter 15:15, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, the earlier story is interesting. This chump's barrister seems to have suggested that denying his client the right to be a bigot could lead to "civil unrest". A thinly veiled threat, and it makes as much sense as arguing that refusing to under-age sex could lead to an armed uprising by Catholic clergy. I'm assuming that meat puppet client is a bit more flexible with his beliefs when it comes to things that don't make him feel icky or would otherwise be hassle for him. --ConcernedresidentAsk me about our flightdeck 15:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, today's NewsTechnica (set to post at ~17:45 UTC) will be running with the theme - David Gerard (talk) 15:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Too fat to fight

This is likely to get conservatives into a tizzy. Some top former US generals are stating that money needs to be spent on poorer kids to improve their health, so they can then sign up. Spend money on the working class... No. --- Help our armed services... Hell Yes! --- Can't rationalise..... On a more serious note, this is why the welfare service and NHS started in Britain, as during WWI and WWII a lot of the conscripts were too malnourished to fight well. CS Miller (talk) 09:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Interesting aside to that. Was reading the Rise & fall of the 3rd Reich a while back and the author commentated that after fall of France the difference between the healthy, tanned German soldiers and the British troops, with their bad teeth, sunken chests and sallow complexions was marked.
Another aside, wasn't there a report sometime that video games were improving kids' hand-eye co-ord so they could operate modern weapons better. I guess the converse to that is they got fat, sitting on the couch, learning that co-ord. --PsyGremlinPrata! 09:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Here's my take: Yes. The soldiers that we are getting are, by and large (no pun intended), completely out of shape. Note that I said "out of shape", not necessarily "too fat to fight". Weight control is a HUGE (again, no pun intended) deal in the U.S. Army. The weight standards are completely out of whack, though. Capable soldiers are being processed out of the service because they class into the "overweight" category. The emphasis needs to be on more exercise, not lower weight. When a unit is boots on the ground in a combat zone, they need soldiers who are at ease under heavy loads and with enough stamina to operate for hours or possibly even days at a time. The vast majority of the kids we receive have no problem with simply meeting the absolute minimum requirement for passing the physical fitness test. They seem to think of it as "That's all I need to do so that's all I WILL do." Yes, the minimum standard is above what the "Average Joe Six-Pack" can do (push-ups, sit-ups, 2-mile run), but it really underprepares the individual for the demands of combat operations (i.e., more lift and carry, crawl and distance walk, and short, controlled sprints, etc.). In the long run, physical fitness is a window into the soldier's capabilities that can be used as a tool for gauging a unit's strengths and weaknesses. If PVT Snuffy is overweight and just barely passing (or failing horribly at) his PT test, I can almost guarantee you that he is going to be a problem in theater. The unit will be waiting for him as he lags behind on foot patrols, he will be exhausted and useless when he reaches the objective during a raid or cordon and search, he will fall asleep on the screen line or the observation post. Do the fittest of the fit ever do these things? Of course they do. On occasion. PVT Snuffy, with his lack of will for physical improvement and poor eating habits, however, will also undoubtedly be less motivated to memorize battle drills, learn report formats, and self-enforce standing operating procedure. He'll do the absolute minimum that is required of him to maximize his XBox time on his bunk.

On the flip side, if you give me a guy of any weight class (not morbidly obese, but I can work with an "overweight" guy) who is consistently pushing himself to his absolute limit and then trying to squeeze an extra grunt or two out on top of that during PT, and watching what he eats to ensure he has the highest degree of nutrition (kind of hard to do in Army chow halls, but I digress) he can be a NLNGer (no loss no gain) and still be a force multiplier in the unit. He will have the perseverance to not accept flagging or slacking in front of his peers. He will have the drive to push through the mission at 100% peak efficiency and "just be tired later". Those characteristics will carry over into the rest of his military bearing as well. He'll be more motivated to learn the drills and be able to exercise them at peak efficiency. He will want to take control of his own development and memorize the regs and so on...

I'm just sayin'. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 17:33, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Economics of wind farms

David Gerard already posted a report on wind far economics via The Oil Drum blog, over in WIGO Blogs, but I think it deserves a wider audience. CS Miller (talk) 16:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

George Alan Rekers and rentboys

This entry was posted with the wrong poll number - 677 instead of 1677. I have corrected it but it means there were votes cast for wrong WIGO.  Lily Inspirate me. 11:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

ugh!! Humiliations galore. Eyeaskew (talk) 18:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Neanderthal DNA

Wow! So "Clan of the Cave Bear" was right! </snark> --PsyGremlin講話 20:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

1000 point stock market drop

I think there's something to be said that President Obama, Secretary Geithner, and team maintained their composure today and did not react like chickens with their heads cut off. Thankfully, the days of the Greenspan put are over, one of the policies which I believe contributed to the financial meltdown. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 01:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Be interesting to see the effects on the Japanese and British stock markets by the time Wall Street wakes up tomorrow. I wish these fuckers would quit ruining my economy. ħumanUser talk:Human 02:18, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Should the Obama approval poll be removed?

I think it gives a great insight about how RationalWikians feel about Obama, but we should discuss this poll. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 18:48, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Errrr. Why? Because it's not an actual "event" or something?--BobSpring is sprung! 19:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have explained in more detail why it was commented out. Take a look at RationalWiki:Best of the world and note how the vote entry doesn't make sense. WIGO entries normally provide news, ideally with links to a source, but in this case what we're left with is a question divorced from any way of responding to it (the arrows don't appear on the "best of" page. Maybe it's worth a debate page or a poll on the Saloon Bar? --ConcernedResident Pontiac for the ladies 19:07, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I think something like belongs elsewhere. A talk page like here, or perhaps a debate or forum page. Although it does seem to have attracted a lot of votes! ħumanUser talk:Human 19:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I wonder why that would be Huw? Somebody rigging the poll? It certainly doesn't belong here anyway.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:34, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
No, probably easier to vote on than anything that requires "click and read) is all. ħumanUser talk:Human 19:35, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I do see there's a precedent (20-10 vs 2000-10). Maybe we should discuss this in general? ħumanUser talk:Human 19:35, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, commenting it out does not take it off Bestof. I have to do that manually. -- Nx / talk 19:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

If we agree to remove these polls (I think we should) can we ask you nicely to do so? And maybe we should add something to the instructions reflecting this, if we decide on it? ħumanUser talk:Human 01:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
There's always the Pointless Polls. The WIGO system is good for events and stories but I don't think it's the place for polling the mob. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 01:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Especially considering people aren't even dating these things. ħumanUser talk:Human 01:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Overdose fail

Overdose fail, indeed. Traumeel is far from "no active ingredient" homeopathy as it's stated concentrations are between 3X and 8X - which if we use this clever table shows that there should be something in there. However, I decided to dig a little more anyway. Traumeel's website cites 8 papers to prove that it works. Interestingly, I can't seem to find these papers anywhere! Well, I can find the one in Clinical and Developmental Immunology but it seems a little off, the phrases are there, but it's not a controlled study. Indeed, it's very much an in vitro study, which Ben Goldacre readers will be well weary of, as tipping stuff into petri-dishes isn't exactly the same as it working in the body. The rest are mostly from a journal called Biological Therapy and I can't seem to find that, ISI and PubMed certainly don't index it. It's also interesting what the site doesn't quote as studies. Notably the most authoritative work, the Cochrane review that basically concluded "meh" and the most recent, which was placebo-controlled and double-blind which concluded negative too. Compare this with a recent study in an explicitly alternative medicine journal that concludes that it works but is a study a 10th the size and isn't controlled, yet alone blinded. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 09:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as I am concerned the story should be headlined "Fucked up young person fucks up". As the parent of a fucked up young person I wonder lots about the back story. Whilst having a laugh at her stupidity is fun if she's for real then my heart goes out to her, however privileged her background. Jack Hughes (talk) 10:24, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Also the story is 6 months old. - π 10:25, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
You can overdosze on homeopathic pills by taking half a one. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
The age of WIGO:WORLD stories often doesn't bother me, BTW, although really old stuff could do with it's own page just as a "link repository" - but between all the WIGOs I think that's a little too much and can probably be dealt with by the SB. And yes, someone overdosing is tragic regardless. I don't care for the comments of "oh but she's soooo privileged" and stuff. Yes, people have worse deals I'm sure, but what causes individual torment is often very relative as it's often caused by some sort of culture shock, where your situation changes, so going from the life of a multimillionaire to someone who earns "only" thirty grand a year is as big an impact (relatively) as someone who earns thirty grand taking a cut to fifteen or someone on a fairly low level wage going unemployed (I use the financial example just as a point, because figures make sense). If you see what I mean. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 19:32, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
There was a fabulous little article in my last Psych textbook about the rates of suicides seen in the upper classes. The author made some great points about how rich people often have higher rates of depression and suicide. We live in a culture (America is the worst, but others aren't far behind) that tend to think the key to happiness is money and fame. Well, these people have money and fame and they're not happy (big surprise) So aside from the depression they're already suffering, they have this little voice in the back of their head (or worse, a friend) telling them that there's something wrong with them, they have it all, how could they be depressed, etc. Which makes them even worse because they feel abnormal..... SirChuckBPenguin Knight, First Class 22:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
A very interesting way of putting it. There really is nothing worse than feeling crap and being told you have no reason to feel crap. Sometimes you really don't have a reason and then you just feel like you're whining for the sake of it and that just sets off the loop even worse. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 11:21, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Next wigo world id number borken

I've submitted two entries here recently using the 'Next Wigo World poll number' link, and it always produces an incorrect number. That is all. DogPMarmite Patrol 19:04, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm....definitely saw it produce a wrong number, but not now.. DogPMarmite Patrol 19:51, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Fuck, Martin Gardner died

And all we have is some lame wigo? With an ugly green banner? !!!!! ħumanUser talk:Human 10:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Shit, I miss the bastid already. And seriously, what's up with the puke green header? ħumanUser talk:Human 10:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Note new, better WIGO text - David Gerard (talk) 11:05, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry if I mucked up your version. ħumanUser talk:Human 11:14, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll add it to his article then ;-p - David Gerard (talk) 11:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Arse, why couldn't we send someone else in his place? --ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 11:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Dude, he was 95 and motivated a world of geeks. I think that's called "a life successfully lived" - David Gerard (talk) 11:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
It was a good life, but I'd still prefer to have sent a few other people in his place. Pat Robertson for one, and perhaps whoever it was who invented that difficult to open hard plastic packaging for headphones. --ConcernedResident omg ponies!!! 11:38, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I just saw this. Fuck. Wherever he is now, I hope there's lots of math. MDB (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

MMR part 2,995,237

RE: Andrew Wakefield stuck off Okay. Good. But still' the reporting goes slightly awry in places. I could article-ify this in some way:

  • Myth: "Wakefield's paper sparked the MMR scare"
  • Reality: The paper was released in 1998. The "scare" didn't start until at least two years later when Wakefield announced the findings at a conference. Because conference papers This was picked up my the media at large which then blew it out of proportion.
  • Myth: "The results were later discredited"
  • Reality: The results consisted of thirteen children with behavioural difficulties (aka "autism") being examined. Wakefield claimed to find traces of the MMR vaccine (as the measles virus) in their colons in about half of them. These results weren't discredited as they didn't have much credit to begin with. Follow up studies performed elsewhere were discredited, however, after it emerged that the methods used to detect the measles virus were generating too many false positives.

Scarlet A.pngd hominem 10:38, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Full timeline here SusanG Toast 12:10, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Yesterday's Chicago rally seems to have been a bit of a flop 11:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC) SusanG Toast
The problem isn't so much the nutters, but the larger group of parents worried just enough about side-effects and not enough about disease. Broccoli (talk) 11:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
There is a good reason for that. Basically, people aren't built to deal with actual facts, we have to make inferences based on things that grab our attention. If something is present and we can relate to it, it grabs our attention more. So a disease that has almost been wiped out by vaccination just means nothing to people. We've totally eradicated small pox, so if someone said there was a risk of it coming back people would respond with "meh". On the other hand, because of films and TV, and graphic news reports, if someone even hints at Ebola, there's hell on, even though it's not particularly virulent or dangerous to a large population (it is a pretty gruesome one, though). The same kind of happened with BSE, even though you were more likely to die by eating beef then being subsequently struck by lightning (okay, I pulled that statistic out of my ass, but it's just for illustration) people went mental, because the disease was publicised and looked particularly gruesome. Same with the "flesh eating" bacteria. Same with MRSA, really. On the other side of the coin, we have measels, mumps, rubella, flu and so on, prevalent and dangerous but out of the public eye - no one gives a shit because the Daily Mail doesn't tell them to give a shit. Back on the hysterical side of this coin and we can talk about the unwanted side effects of the medication. The wanted effects of vaccines have worked, but they've worked so well that people forget that these diseases are real and dangerous, and this opens the door for people to harp on about side-effects as if they're equally dangerous or more dangerous than the disease the medication prevents. A story of a mother saying how their kid just "got autism" after a vaccine resonates with people more than any amount of doctors, statistics and facts saying otherwise. So there aren't really nutters, just people who are, unfortunately, human. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 12:06, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


They still suck. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ No comment 14:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Good it's not just me.... My first thought upon reading that was "oh good, the pretentious college kid market is still thriving." SirChuckBObama/Biden? 2012 17:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not that they suck - per se - it's just that we can get something that sucks just as badly for a third of the price. Scarlet A.pngd hominem 10:57, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
All the cool kids use Linux. - π 06:28, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Earlier entries

Does anyone want an earlier entries like on WIGO CP, someone dose seem to keep adding on? I would like to know in advance because the way it keeps getting done now is just going to upset WIGO bot when I archive this at the end of the month. - π 06:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

To whoever put in the Coleman Wigo

Not cool.... Seriously.... A person's death is not an occasion for mockery, laughter or political points. SirChuckBObama/Biden? 2012 07:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

It is WIGOs like that one that make me glad I have 5 IP address. - π 08:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

1. They couldn't even spell "world" for the poll ID. 2. It was so stupid I commented it out. ħumanUser talk:Human 08:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)