Debate:Israel and Palestine
Ok, everyone, obviously from what we've seen in the Saloon Bar it's going to be difficult to keep this in any way respectful. So, I have only one rule:
NO GODWIN'S LAW.
Here's the current situation summarized here. The UN is meeting up this week to discuss this, and whatever happens next will seem to have serious repercussions in the future.
The question is this: Do you support the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel? Why or why not? Osaka Sun (talk) 03:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I support this move; on a practical level, the "peace process" is dead, the settlements are expanding, and the Palestinians need to do something to change the situation they are stuck in. As a state, they would have recourse to the ICC and other international bodies as a way to force the process to move forward and to advance their own agenda. On a more philosophical level, I support this move because the Palestinians see themselves as a nation, therefore they are, de facto, a nation, and Israel--and everybody else, for that matter--has no business telling them otherwise. No body of law in the world recognizes the territory over which the Palestinians are claiming sovereignty as Israeli territory (unlike, say, the Quebecois, who have to deal with the fact that they are camped on land that is sovereign Canadian turf), so, in theory, the Israelis really have no say in the matter. They can bitch and whine that the Palestinians need to go through them, but at the end of the day, the Palestinians aren't children; they don't need anyone's permission to do this. B♭maj7 "Voted in two different votes, but there was never a vote." 03:35, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think the Palestinians should have their own state and that Israel should withdraw to its rightful territory, within the 1967 borders; but with Hamas gone into dictatorial mode, cutting them loose the wrong way has the potential to make the situation worse for all involved. I do not know enough about this current bid to tell whether that could be a problem.
ListenerXTalkerX 03:41, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- I think the Palestinians should have their own state and that Israel should withdraw to its rightful territory, within the 1967 borders; but with Hamas gone into dictatorial mode, cutting them loose the wrong way has the potential to make the situation worse for all involved. I do not know enough about this current bid to tell whether that could be a problem.
[edit] Goodwin's Law
You cannot discuss the Jews without discussing antisemitism. You can't discuss antisemitism without discussing Hitler. Zionism was not a result of Hitler, but its final push was absolutely a result of WWII - including the UN Resolution that established Israel as a legitimate state. Goodwin's Law doesn't apply to actually discussing Jews.
The Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to have a state. Israel has wanted the Palestinians to have a state but every state that the Palestinians have tried to present refuse to recognize Israel as a state. Further withdrawals by Israel will only solidify Hamas' control over the area. I think Israel was stupid to give back the territory it took in the Six Day war back when the Arab states were playing Hitler thinking the Jews were their personal game to terrorize for political power - they still think this to an extent but after Israel kicked four countries' asses in, well, six days, they're a little more careful. I think they were stupid to give back Gaza, I think they would be stupid to give back Jerusalem and I think they should have blown up the Dome of Islamic Jew Hate on the Temple Mount immediately after the six day war to make it absolutely clear to the parasitic, hateful, violent religion of Islam that "daddy's home and he's come with a big stick." Islam understands submission - it does not understand peace. It does not understand human rights. It refuses to accept, even now, full equality for any religious minority within its borders. JRCHReason (talk) 05:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)