# RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive18

This is an archive page, last updated 27 November 2009. Please do not make edits to this page.

##  Kent Hovind is on Twitter

Ahh Twitter parodies. Can we make a list of Twitters somewher?, I know we have a RatWiki and Conservapedia, as well as JPatts and the maybe TK ones, Ames also has one. - User $\pi$ 08:22, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
So funny. ArmondikoVgnostic 08:53, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
I wonder how many RWians are on Twitter. I'm @x3na. My last tweet was to repost that link to the Snatch Wars thing on Youtube. Mega 09:32, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
I are. but I ain't giving out mine twitter handle as I don't post and (Luddite that I yam) do not own a cell phone. CЯacke® 12:02, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
I'm on (only updating every few days though), and Genghis is on too. Totnesmartin 13:07, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
I'm more of a reader than a tweeter at the mo. @Lily_The_Pink.  Lily Ta, wack! 14:06, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Pi said: "Ahh Twitter parodies. Can we make a list of Twitters somewher?" Well, can we? I don't tweet (my life's too boring for even me to bother about).and marmite 04:35, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I made a start at Rationalwiki:Twitterers. ГенгисGum disease 15:28, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Inevitiable pain...

Enough said. At least the poor guy died happy. JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 10:26, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Lol! Love that pic. From friends who've been over there, apparently the best way to pick up Japanese girls when you go clubbing in Tokyo is to not look Japanese... --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:38, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Oh man, that is not cool :S It's like Tarantino's wet dream. ArmondikoVgnostic 10:39, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Sleeptalk

I read an article today in the Irish Times about talking to your kids when they are asleep to make them behave better. (Article at http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2009/0421/1224245059184.html). My BS meter went straight to red. However I can't find much discussion about this anywhere. I have read before that it is almost impossible to study the effectiveness of hypnotherapy versus a placebo for obvious reasons. But in this case it would surely be easier. Has anyone encountered this type of therapy before and are there any good studies on its effectiveness? JoeDuffy 11:14, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

It's probably an indirect effect. If parents sit and talk to their children while they're going to sleep they'll basically be more attentive, the child won't feel neglected at all and the raport between partent(s) and child will improve. So, it'd be interesting to see what happens if someone does the lazy thing and just makes a tape of praise in a sweet voice and substitutes it for the parten because their too lazy to look after their kids properly - similar to those education videos aimed at 1 year olds that do bugger all. ArmondikoVgnostic 11:37, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
In this case though you need to talk to your child after they have fallen asleep! As for your recording suggestions the good folks at Sleeptalk (TM) have beaten you to it (http://www.sleeptalk.com.au/orders/index.php) :) JoeDuffy 11:49, 21 April 2009 (ED
This is totally plausable to me. No,let me take it back, the idea that a child will feel more loved, not that they will be better behaved. It's proven that out side simulus effects you even when you are asleep. People "hear" songs in their dreams that are playing on the radio, TV words or news becomes part of dreams, etc. So you will feel more at ease, sleeping better, when your mom or dad is there, no doubt. but that's not "behavior", it's just the awareness that someone who loves you is nearby. (godot, not signed in).
Armondikov, you are mistaken. The videos do indeed do something very very very important: They part foolish parents from their money and line the pockets of the producers. SirChuckBI have very poor judgement 13:14, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Oh, that, sorry, I was using the "other" measure of usefullness. It'll take me a while to recallibrate to the right one. And yes, people certainly dream about some of the things that happen around them. I do it a lot, although I'm not sure of the effect it has because the whole thing is totally surreal and pretty f**ked up. ArmondikoVgnostic 18:38, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Well there's nothing surprising in the story. First of all there are different levels of sleep and we can respond to external stimuli quite easily if we are only in a light sleep. It wouldn't be in our interest to be completely unreceptive for eight hours a day, we still subconciously hear things. Secondly we should probably forget about hynosis being a sort of robotic trance but regard it as being a heightened state of suggestibility. Most of us are susceptible to suggestion, especially if we are unaware that someone is trying to influence us. Stage performers like mentalists or mind readers often implant ideas, such as "forcing" us to think of a specific card; or advertisements manage to persuade us to buy things we don't really need or prefer one band over another. I take quite an interest in this sort of thing and it is amazing how using certain words and phrasing can elicit a more favorable outcome. If my wife's snoring while asleep I don't dig her in the ribs and wake her up I quietly say "You're snoring" and she usually rolls on to her side. ГенгисGum disease 18:41, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Sounds like love to me, brother, don't lose that one! ħuman 00:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Preach it, brother!

Makes more sense than most televangelists. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 16:11, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Trigg Palin at the Wasilla Church, speaking in tongues? --SpinyNorman 12:34, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Minister Values

Who says a life of religion isn't rewarding? Apparently a bit too rewarding to some of the flock, in this case... --SpinyNorman 12:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Give Obama a grade.

After following the recent WIGO CP link, I was interested in seeing what the fellow mob thinks of Obama. Fill in as needed. JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 12:47, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

### A

• Done more for the US internationally than Bush in all his Presidency and done it by being nice. and marmite 16:19, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• As a Brit, I can honestly say that I am much looking forward to improved relations between the U.S. and England. Personally, knowing Obama is willing to discuss tensions with moderate Taliban members did put me off, untill I understood it was with the Taliban members who wanted to negotiate. The sudden change in foriegn policy of the United States therefore causes me to say "A". -- 17:02, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• A minus. Most of his flaws are in dealing with a tremendous pile of shit he was handed, IMO. I think he has singlehandedly repaired most of the international relations disaster of the last 8 years already. Big points on Cuba and making out with Chavez. My only other criticisms are that he's not as far left as I am, but that's not really a fair vantage to judge from. Undid gag rule. Pushing green energy very good. Very poised for a young punk (Gawd, I'm older than the President!). Organic veggie garden at the WH. Shooting pirates, even. "Shovel ready" stimulus money instead of corporate bailouts. However, it's only been 100 days. How things play out over the next couple of years in Iraq and Afghanistan and re: torture, PATRIOT Act, etc. will matter a lot as they become "his" problems, not his predecessors. This shouldn't count, but having a president who can string together intelligent sentences is a huge relief. Hoping he can undo much of the damage done in the last 28 years and pick up where Carter left off. Peace in our time! Green jobs for all! Movements towards UHC! Whoops, I'm campaigning, not reporting now... ħuman 19:23, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• A- Great foreign policy initiatives (Cuba????), pretty good on the bailout (too early to tell and I'm no economist but benefit of doubt) and rehabilitated Stevie Wonder from post "I Just Called to Say I Love You" uncoolness. a bit. Turned the Republicans from a fearsome, well organised and planned political party into an incoherent rabble. Docked points for not signing up to the international court. You guys want to swap with Gordon Brown? Totnesmartin 05:01, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
• At least for effort. I doubt it's an easy job for anyone at the moment. Two shitty wars and environmental and ecconomic crisis. If he comes through it alive it'll be impressive. ArmondikoVgnostic 08:53, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

### B

• In all honesty, nobody is perfect, and Obama has made a few mistakes, but is a huge leap from Bush, so a B. JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 12:44, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• This is what I clicked on the MSNBCCCP website. An A grade would require exceptional accomplishments, but overall I'm pretty happy. Taytopacket 12:48, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• Mostly because his policies haven't had time to take effect yet; once we have a better idea where his policies will lead us, we can adjust the grade better. Z3rotalk 13:25, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• Not too bad. Room for improvement with an open mind. B- Neveruse513 13:32, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• I'm a little unhappy with some choices, but on a curve he's a zillion times better than Bush... But I think a B is good. SirChuckBI have very poor judgement 15:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• I'd rate him a "B" so far. He could have screened some of his early appointments like Daschle better, and showed more leadership over cutting blatant pork from the stimulus bills. On the upside, he's kept key pledges, shown composure and a steady hand in financial crisis where others would be reacting to every new day's sound bites and polling, and is already showing a maturity in our foreign policy thinking that's been sorely missing for the past eight years. He also showed a quiet decisiveness in the pirate-killing episode without having a need to play it up afterward for points. I hope he fares better than he has to date in getting Congress to be effective without the usual B.S. and games, but for a first 100 days in trying times - not bad. Oh, and if you want the next Lenski - wait for his first Supreme Court pick, which may comes this year if Justice Ginsburg's health deteriorates. --SpinyNorman 15:22, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• A for getting elected, C for what he's done so far, averaging into a solid B. - Refugeetalk page 16:15, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• A for intelligence, timeliness, seeking the higher ground and international stature, B for policy platform, C for needing to mature in the Presidency a bit (e.g. no more Jay Leno shows until you're a prvate citizen again, please). DogP 17:37, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• Although I love this administration over the last one, and believe that America will progress more rapidly than ever before now, Obama's first hundred days definately weren't "perfect". His presidency as a whole may prove otherwise over time, but for now he still has a lot of promises to fulfill and a few mistakes to patch up. User:Ttony21/sig2 17:47, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• He's doing alright, but where are these gay rights I keep hearing so much about? And yes, I care, because our PM's head is traditionally three feet up the US president's arse, so a change over there will help bring about change over here. -RedbackG'day 19:30, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• Nobody's perfect. He's been better than Bush though. And merely whispering his name is enough to make any psycho-Republican within a 3 mile radius start twitching their eyes. ENorman 22:24, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
• The good: Tremendous effort to revive our foreign relations (and I’m glad to hear that the Brits agree); Good to hear him encouraging the development of alternative energy (and I can’t blame him for not talking about my favorite one); generally positive rhetoric and attitude. The bad: He’s made ‘how’ many nighttime talk show appearances since he took office?? Also, the bailout has gotten excessive; it seems like ‘everything’ is “too big to fail” now, which is a really bad policy in the long term. Here’s hoping a gradual culling of the ineffective American businesses occurs as we come out of the recession. OneForLogic 01:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

### C

• Bombings in Pokistan, escalation of troop levels in Afghanistan, fact that "private security agencies" (i.e. "mercenaries") won't be included in troop withdrawals from Iraq, ambiguous position re: prosecuting torture, ditto on the Department of Justice re: wiretapping. On the positive side, economic policies, while nowhere near egalitarian/socialistic enough for me, seem to be holding a complete meltdown at bay; didn't seem to take the teabaggers seriously, which shows a sense of commitment and not a willingness to play to the polls. Acknowledging that Hugo Chavez is an actual person and that the US has seriously played Cuba wrong for the last half-century were both huge. Commitment to environment. My wife thinks Bo is really cute. Having the Grateful Dead play his inauguration ball. TheoryOfPractice 13:55, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Honestly CUR, not protecting wolves is hardly worthy of a C. Wisest evil Hoover! 17:30, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Why is CUR's opinion the only one to get jumped on? He's only bloody 14, what do you expect his politics to be like? Totnesmartin 18:22, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I agree. He gave his reasons based on what is most important to him of what he's heard. He also listed two other issues, although I think Obama is pushing ahead as much as he can on the green stuff. ħuman 19:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

### D

DC vicinity air defense activated as word gets out that there was a Muslim man in the White House who hates America, loves Palestine and has a fake birth certificate. Mega 23:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

### F

Conservapedia told me to. I would have given a B, but when it comes from a trusworthy site... User:Theemperor/Sig/Sig 20:16, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Bitches/Hoes/Women Females

It was my understanding that there were no women on the internet... What about RW attracts teh laydeez? Neveruse513 16:21, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Well I can't say that I appreciate the title of this section, lol. I don't know about anyone else, but I came here as a refugee from Conservapedia, hoping to talk to more rational, intelligent people, and stayed to flirt with Ace and a few others. - Refugeetalk page 16:28, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
My guess is that there are many wimminz on the net but they tend to keep out of the gutter, and hence avoid many people's notice. :-) (P.S., I'm no EDiot, but I've been known to cruise the dark side of lulz occasionally) Taytopacket 16:34, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Thanks for changing the title of this section, Neveruse513, my guess is more women will be likely to reply now, lol. I love the name Taytopacket! Even though I have no idea what it means. Or what Neveruse513 means for that matter. - Refugeetalk page 16:58, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Hey Refugee, are we flirting now? I like the sound of that sweets. Here is a picture of us that I drew....Ace McWickedbitch and moan 17:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Ace and Refugee - feel the love
I commented on the image talk page already, funny! :D maybe add a shirt though. lol. anyway, I'm off to rest now and see if my toothache gets better. :-) - Refugeetalk page 17:20, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Congratulations, you've earned the Worse Artist than ConservapediaUndergroundResistor Award for Exemplary Rather Bad Drawing Skills. I need a template for that. . . --CoyoteOver 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages 17:30, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Some stats to mull over. Quantcast provides demographic detail for advertising purposes. According to them 63% of our site visitors are female. We get 124% of the females then is the average and only 74% of the males. I think it is because we have created an environment which is rather friendly to them. RA wrote an essay advocating we fill the bureaucrat ranks with a good representation of females and we did. Also nobody does the usual stupid shit of making jokes about how there are no women on the internet or asking them for pictures. Oh course anyone trying that we have a backup plan. - User $\pi$ 19:46, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Something else to mull over: most visitors are teenagers. --CoyoteOver 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages 19:51, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Does 19 = Teenager? I like to think I outgrew that last year O_o JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 19:54, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I dont think I could have conclusively been considered a "teenager" for about 10 - 12 years however that doesnt stop me from behaving like one at 3am when drunk, high and having access to firearms and/or explosives. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 20:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Yep, being an adult is great. You know all the best things to do when you're acting childish. And remember, if you can't find any explosives, make your own using a few packs of sparklers and some duct tape. -RedbackG'day 20:04, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Disclaimer: Do not make your own using a few packs of sparklers and some duct tape.
You mean like this? JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 20:17, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I know a few nifty tricks. Like how to make a flame thrower from a vacuum cleaner and I also constructed a fairly powerful potato-gun once. Also I can make a pretty handy timer with a cigarette and a book of matches. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 20:19, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Didn't we make a list once of female & male editors? It'd be cool to see the list again, as due to not being a teenager, I can barely remember my own name, let alone alls about the wimminses and menses. DogP 00:11, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Menses: think before you typeses. and marmite 10:05, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Eww. I just learnt a new word. -RedbackG'day 10:32, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Wouldn't it be better to create categories at the bottom of our user pages for "male rationalwikians" and "female rationalwikians"? Of course, there might be some who refuse to be categorized. It's all good. Mega 09:20, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
I am not a number! --Kels (User #7) 09:24, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Me neither! I'm a Bunch of 'Em! 83.147.138.66 09:26, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
RWW has a list. But it's probably not accurate or extensive. ArmondikoVgnostic 10:15, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
What I don't understand is how the statistics sites can determine who is female? If I clear my cookies and history before I come here, and come straight from Google or some other neutral site (not from a women's fashions page or something, lol) how can they categorize me? Refugeetalk page 16:01, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Webcam under the desk? -RedbackG'day 16:06, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Lol! :p - Refugeetalk page 16:29, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Maybe they use the CD test to see who's female. Mega 23:29, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  I hate dentists

I hate dentists! :-( My dental work was done yesterday (a simple filling) and today it still hurts, my mouth is all swollen up.. feel sorry for me, lol. :p Aside from drugs, what will ease the pain? Any suggestions? - Refugeetalk page 16:30, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

You may be having a reaction to the version of novocain used? Or perhaps during the injection there was some bruising? I'd recommend ibuprofen (start w/4, then 1 an hour) to take the edge off and perhaps reduce the swelling a bit. Also, a gentle ice pack for the swelling. And if you're a drinking Lady, a little tipple will help nudge the pain into the background, too. Does your dentist usually do ok? If this is routine, perhaps look for a new one. Oh, and if it isn't getting better (a bit) by tomorrow, and "better all the time", go back, in case there is a complication of some sort. Also, if it's really intolerable, you might get a 'scrip for some codeine (tylenol-3), if opiates don't bother you. ħuman 16:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
She said "aside from drugs", so the ibuprofen is out. I'd try pot. Neveruse513 16:39, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
This was my first time going to this dentist, I never had problems like this with a simple filling before. I feel better now - I think I just needed someone to care, and make a fuss over me, lol. Thanks! :-) I am going to try the ice - I don't have an icepack but I think a few icecubes in a washcloth may help. I hope. - Refugeetalk page 16:45, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Try booze, sex and watching The Simpsons. Works for me every time. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 16:51, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
When I was a kid dentistry was still in the dark ages; no fluoride, floss or electric toothbrushes, in those days they were real bristle! A bad experience with a dentist slipping with a the drill (which went into my gum) put me off proper checkups for several years and it was only a root abscess that got me back again. I'm now paying for that neglect and have had three extractions in the past 12 months with three corresponding implants. First of all it depends what is causing the pain. Ibuprofen is a good starter as an analgesic and anti-inflammatory. My surgeon advised hot saline mouthwashes - one mug full of hot water with a teaspoon of salt keep mouthfulls over the sore area for as long as you can stand it. This may be an alternative to ice. You can also get anaesthetic mouthwashes like Difflam or Chloraseptic. Oil of Cloves can also help if the pain is from the tooth itself. As much pain is psychological or at least can be controlled by the mind, it helps to get into a positive state of mind. Find something pleasurable to divert you from dwelling on it. And finally - look after your teeth when you're young, get them straightened if necessary and only floss the ones you want to keep. Finally, don't use your teeth for stripping wires. ГенгисGum disease 18:24, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Hehe, I was in my mid-twenties when I stopped using my teeth as all-purpose shop tools. Learning to use a "proper" wire stripper was a pain, though - teeth work better. ħuman 19:07, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, saliva is so much better than rosin flux for solder wetting. Mega 09:22, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Meditate on your breath. Thee Nuttish Talk 18:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
It's better today, I think Human was right about the novocaine though, still have some swelling and it's sensitive, not too bad now, but I managed to get another day off work because of it, that makes 2 1/2 days off for a simple filling, lol. I am pretty sure they know that I just wanted a day off and are ok with it, but if I try to get Friday too, that will be pushing it too much. Refugeetalk page 15:55, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Justy By The Way: Booze is a bad thing to do. It seems to increase the pain although it probably stops you bothering about it if you have enuff. and marmite 16:06, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Refugee for Crat

Now, normally, I am impulsive in handing out Cratship, but I would like to put forth a proposal to turn Refugee into a Beaurucrat. She has been here since 2007, and has been a pretty consistant editor since summer of '08. Despite not having had to deal with any major catastrofucks (to the best of my knowledge) I think she is ready to hand out sysopship to other users. What does the mob think? JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 17:27, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

I support. Wisest evil Hoover! 17:29, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Concur. TheoryOfPractice 17:30, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Yes I agree. Then I shall make her my queen. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 17:33, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I likes Refugee. Concur. and marmite 17:37, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Sure, go ahead. Check first that she's not CUR wearing socks again. DogP 17:39, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
It is done. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 17:48, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
That was easy... ħuman 18:11, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
<Daily Mail>Preferential treatment for refugees!</Daily Mail>Taytopacket 18:14, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Not easy, My. Powell, inevitiable. (has been watching The Matrix too much lately) JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 18:16, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

I post-whatever approve. Is this the way we are doing crats these days? Seems simple but at least there is some discussion. - User $\pi$ 20:18, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Probably a good model for future cratting - brief discussion, overridden by a drunk kiwi. Simple, sensible, abrupt, and rational, in the end. ħuman 22:23, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
How do you know she's pretty? :) That said, no objections, I'll just go with the flow. --PsyGremlinWhut? 04:05, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Well, I look remarkably like the picture Ace posted above. lol. :p I wish I had seen this yesterday before I left, it would have cheered me right up, that's pretty cool! Thanks Javascap for the nomination *hug* and Ace (my King!) :D and thanks to everyone who voted yes. But to be quite honest, I never did much as a Sysop and probably will have about the same stellar record as a 'crat. Let me know what is expected of me though, and I'll do my best. - Refugeetalk page 15:49, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  TV

Watching Family Guy: Blue Harvest. V good! and marmite 18:49, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Watching Family Guy: Church of the Fnonz. JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 18:51, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Watching Family Guy: I Dream of Jesus, then Road to Germany. Then onto American Dad. Yay TiVo! -RedbackG'day
Because everyone knows the bird is the word... JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 18:54, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Blue Harvest = Garbage. American Dad = Garbage. Sorry, but lets not have Liberal Obfusication here. Go back to Comedy Central with all the other public schoolers. If you are interested in the truth then thats where you'll find me. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 18:56, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I love the Money Pit. That is my response to that.
Also looking forward to Something, Something, Something Dark Side hopefully later this year. Lady on the toilet, the bird is the word -RedbackG'day 19:01, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Also the while playing H2G2 Adventure game. I played this on a Amstrad computer waaaaay back. (It's a word only (this version with some rudimentary graphics) game - Those Were The Days, My Friend) and marmite 19:15, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I remember playing some ye-olde text-based games during my childhood, back when computers had 5¼-inch floppy disks. Those really were the days, trying to type my way out of a monster eating my face, usually to no avail... *sigh*
Back to TV, did anyone see the finale of Australia's Got Talent? Really cute guy doing a Tarzan act ;D. Why do they always pick a bloody singer as the winner? For fuck's sake, if I ever want to see people who think they can sing, I'll watch Australian Idol thanks very much. -RedbackG'day 19:26, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

##  How utterly fucked are we?

So, I've been reading/watching the budget coverage today. Yikes. It really does seem like looming economic crisis is going to turn in to complete economic meltdown. I run a business, and even I didn't quite grasp the enormity of our fuckedness. Is this the kind of thing that's going to need a world war to put right? --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 20:17, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

I recommend this, it really does a great job at demonstrating just how fucked it's gonna get. As for the WWIII thing, that's what they were trying to accomplish in Iraq (I reckon anyway. WMDs? Puh-leeze, not even Dubya was stupid enough to believe that). Oddly, I was talking to my grandmother on my birthday (August) of 2001, and she said to me "The US economy is slowing down, just wait, they'll start a war soon". Well, she was certainly right. -RedbackG'day 20:27, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
The inevitable outcome of unsustainable, continually-expanding, unchecked capitalism. David Harvey was recently talking about some interesting ideas having to do with zero-growth economies that addressed some of both the environmental and the human costs of capitalism. Haven't really read enough about it, but its interesting to see that some people are seeing different alternatives arise out of the present mess. TheoryOfPractice 20:43, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Overpopulation is a big problem, too. An economic Malthusian disaster? Sterilewalkie-talkie 20:47, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
EC) It's always got me that an economy's wellbeing is (apparently) measured by growth. Surely all the woirld's economies can't simultaneously grow? If some are growing musn't others be declining? So we're dependent on others getting worse off? Took a course in economics 20+ years ago - it didn't stick;-). and marmite 20:50, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
ECOverpopulation as an undifferentiated phenomenon is tricky--when one American/Canadian/what-have-you uses as much of the resource base as X (whatever it is, it's a big number) Ghanaians or Eritreans, it's kind of hard to talk about "too many people." I recently saw a geographer from the U. of Accra argue that if you monetized the effects of Western overconsumption on African environment, economy and people and put that amount up against the continent's foreign debts (to individual countries as well as the IMF and the WB), we in the West would owe Africa a substantial amount of dough. TheoryOfPractice 20:53, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

(UI)@ Toast, I wrote a seven hundred word essay in my head replying to your "growth" question. Quick answer: economies, however simple, are not a zero sum game. I'd recommend a read of The Wealth of Nations, it's actually a damn good book, up there with On the Variation of Races and How Some Are Better (title prolly not right). Part of the fun is the delightful 18th century context. ħuman 22:26, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Here in Drunk Land N.Z they just discovered a $50b hole in the budget and are cutting back on public service jobs. Not only am I a bureaucrat here but I am also in real life. I am worried becuase if they find out that I have honed my department down to the point a Schlafly chimp could do it, then I am fucked. Ace McWickedbitch and moan 22:31, 22 April 2009 (EDT) The hallmark of a good manager: making themselves redundant. ħuman 23:31, 22 April 2009 (EDT) If you were watching budget coverage, did you spot a guy in a blue shirt in the background outside Westminster try to do the YMCA on camera? ArmondikoVgnostic 08:56, 23 April 2009 (EDT) ##  Slow torture Let me tell you all a story about torture. Our generous government announced that each Australian who made less than$80k last year (and filed their taxes) would receive $900 to help stimulate the economy. Now, I plan to spend my$900 on alcohol, weed, xbox games and dominos pizza. The most awful part of all this is that we don't know exactly when we get our $900. They started making payments on April 6, but it may not arrive until May 16. So I've been sitting here for the last 17 days refreshing my online banking every ten minutes, resisting the urge to call the tax office and tell them to hurry the fuck up so I can get stoned and eat pizza while playing my xbox. I ask you all, is there any worse way to torment a poor person on the dole than waving$900 over their head? As is, I ran out of smokes two days ago and I'm about ready to smack something, so I'm starting to get frustrated at the situation, along with everything else (Rebback need nicotine, now!).
Have any other Aussies already gotten their stimulus handout, or are there others, like me, still waiting to be stimulated? Also, how is everyone else coping with the new lack of wealth? Have you quit smoking, drinking, or other vices? Given up on saving for a new car? Sold your kidney? Sold your body? Share your experiences and pain, so that we may laugh about it sympathise and support each other. -RedbackG'day 20:56, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

"I plan to spend my $900 on alcohol, weed, xbox games and dominos pizza." Just gonna waste anything that's left over, Red? A man after my own heart. and marmite 21:28, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Quoting Georgie Best? A woman after mine own coeur. ħuman 22:39, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Well, I haven't been too affected. I have a relatively well paying, stable job (cross fingers!!!!), few expensive vices- don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs, and when I gamble (rarely), I can win. I maintain a stable investment portfolio- precious metals- buy during economic boom, when cheap, and when the economy goes south, sell back for a cushion of extra$. I ONLY dabble in the stock market, and don't keep shitloads of cash in pieces of paper. I bank at a stable bank, one that didn't fall for all this subprime shit. Oh, and I never bought a bigger house, a faster car, or nicer things than I could afford. As a result, I can now buy said bigger house, faster car, and nicer things with the money I saved, and buy them during a recession at dirt cheap prices, also serving the purpose of stimulate the economy, on a microscopic level. Well, that's the Imperial lecture on my current fiscal standing. How're you guys? User:Theemperor/Sig/Sig 21:38, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
(EC)You have money!? ...would you like to be friends?
@Toast:Well, they are telling us not to save it, because spending is better for the economy, and it's only three months 'till tax time (expecting a return of $600-800). And quite franky, I can survive (barely) on my dole payments, so I'mma spend my$900 on fun things that I'd usually need to squeeze to be able to afford. Although, we are supposed to be buying Australian products to help our economy...
• Alcohol - Smirnoff Vodka (British (seriously, look it up))
• Xbox games - Microsoft (USA)
• Pizza - Dominos (USA)
So the only Australian product I'll be buying is weed... fancy that, it's the only thing this country makes that's any good. Well, I'll probably buy some Aussie beer too (much better than American beer, ours actually has alcohol in it <_<). Does anyone have any ideas what else I could spend my $900 on? Preferably something fun. -RedbackG'day 21:44, 22 April 2009 (EDT) For the alcohol, why not some of the excellent Oz vino? Cheaper than Smirnoff (distilled in Wigan?) & tastes better - you don't need to buy mixers. and marmite 21:51, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Well, I suppose there's no better time to try new things than when I can actually afford to buy them... or something. I'll have to keep an eye out at the bottle shop. I'm usually pretty boring with my alcohol, Smirnoff mixed 50/50 with brown cream soda until I'm drunk, then VB to keep me that way (yes, I know I already linked that video, but it's a good video). Thanks for the suggestion, I'm eagerly awaiting my free monies so I can try it out. -RedbackG'day 21:58, 22 April 2009 (EDT) This reminds me of a weird IRC thread where someone said "I'm gonna use my stimulis check on weed" and the next comment was "Just make sure to buy American!" Americans have this weird thing about how to "patriotically" spend their stimulis check. Makes no sense to me and most other countries. :-) Ipatrol 22:37, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Domino's might be a US corp, but most of the money stays at home. So that's not so bad. And surely Ozzies distill their own booze by now? Hell, the first British "settlers" knew the f'ing recipe! ħuman 22:42, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Hey, I used to make my own beer, but it takes soooo long, and usually ends up infected anyway <_<. -RedbackG'day 10:28, 23 April 2009 (EDT) <rant> As for myself, I am a college student with$1,429 in my bank account. My family is strapped for cash from all those vacations we took, and I have 3 years to go in college, totaling $42,000 dollars, and unless there is a fuckin' good job market by the time I get out of college, I am unlikely to get any sort of well-paying job at all whatsoever that hasn't been shipped across the Pacific. Not to mention that I will be completly straddled with about$25,000 in debt. And I had to pay $116 dollars in taxes last year. </rant> JĀvąṢ₡ä₰ hi there 23:04, 22 April 2009 (EDT) You have$1400? Can I be your friend? ħuman 23:37, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Redback, get the Govmint to buy you a handful of E's too and large it about a bit. Always good to get mashed socially as well as the home-pizza-beer-videogames thingie. DogP 23:23, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

No! Those are my drugs, my drugs! Passing over the fact I don't do E (any more), everyone who already has their monies is too drunk/high to hang out or on holidays... in Goa =P. -RedbackG'day 10:28, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Java, I heartily suggest getting your degree then skipping the country and defaulting on your loans. Go live in Goa and live it up in the land of hippie ex-pats of all nationalities or something. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 02:23, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
My one trip outside Urp was to Goa; in '69 ('68? '70?) if memory serves. 'Twas fun but rather dangerous for a 20-odd year old Brit female. I was in company going but my companions chickened out & went home - I was supposed to be heading for Kathmandu but never got there. and marmite 08:45, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
I dare say it's somewhat less dangerous these days. Everyone in Goa is pretty much a drugged up British hippy anyway. Still, I discovered that most Indians can't swim, so the way to get rid of excess attention of whatever stripe is simply to wander out to sea. You have to wonder what the point of going to the beach is, though, if you're just going to play cricket fully clothed. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 15:38, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  and so to bed

We've just consumed £5.00 worth of Stilton while watching our hedgehog eat catfood outside the patio doors & SHMBO says it's time for bed. 'Night all. and marmite 22:11, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

g'night, dear. TheoryOfPractice 22:14, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Dont let the bedbugs paralyse! Ace McWickedbitch and moan 22:15, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
I just got some Limburger. Stinks up the whole damn house, and is much better than Stilton. User:Theemperor/Sig/Sig 22:34, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Ah, that did help put me in the mood for quesadillas and burritos later. Night, one who is lightly browned on both sides! ħuman 22:44, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
Re. Limburger: '"In 2006 a study showing that the malaria mosquito is attracted equally to the smell of Limburger cheese and to the smell of human feet earned the Ig Nobel Prize in the area of biology." WP. and marmite 08:39, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Gin and Tonic time

May I just again say how fond I am of the juniper-scented spirit? Yes indeed, after a hard day's coalmining, blackened of face, hunched of back, danger written across my face like a knife through a sandwich, there's nothing I prefer to come home to than a G&T and perhaps a thin cracker with some Gentleman's Relish. Or Marmite. Or sometimes a triangular cucumber sandwich (with the crusts cut off, of course). Ahhh, life is good up't mine. DogP 23:20, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Utter non sequitur: hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I lolled again. RW is up to speed, mine captain, oh captain. ħuman 23:41, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
G and Ts are pretty good. I'm not much for most liquors (tending towards beer) but they're damn tasty.--Tom Moorefiat justitia ruat coelum 02:33, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
I too am enamoured of teh Gin. There's a brand "Gloags" that hits the spot with a bare minimum of tonic if any. (It's the only one I can drink neat.) Of course for serious drinkin it's gotta be Ardbeg. For a prolonged session there's always GUINNESS, of course (Not the supercooled crap they thrust on the lager generation though). So far this year I've only had 1 (yup - ONE!) evening with al-cohol but I'm hoping to get back into the bad old ways shortish. Now I'm drinking chilled Tonic water or OJ on its own it's a shame 'cause I likeses my booze. and marmite 05:51, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Don't fret Toast, I'm drinking for two at the momment. ГенгисGum disease 18:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  REAL history teacher

I found it interesting how my history teacher the other day was discussing historians; he was stressing the importance of keeping an open mind when it comes to history and he essentially said that going into history with a bias hoping to prove something basically leads you to being a shit historian - that's why a conclusion is at the END after you've seen all the evidence :D I just thought immediately of Andy Schlafly and found it hilarious how people like him aren't considered real historians by real historians. SuperJosh "crying into a flannel" 05:43, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Investigating anything with a preconceived target outcome is less than academic, be it science or history or even religion [spit] As this is the only sort of enquiry AS & Co do, they're a bunch of shits. and marmite 05:54, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Josh, you and your teacher are absolutely right. BUT. Writing history (like almost anything else) is an intensely political act, one that is performed by subjects, and those subjectivities and politics are going to inform the way history is written. Charges of "bias" are often thrown around (by Schlafly, yes, but by people on any side of an issue) as a way to try to discredit somebody's argument. But another way to think about "bias" is to call it "viewpoint," and we all have a viewpoint on the things that matter to us. Let's say you're a feminist historian writing about the roles played by women in the civil rights movement. Your job is to show how women contributed to that movement in ways that historians have tended to overlook because they've been focused on men like MLK (note: I'm making this up as I go along, don't flame me for not knowing my civil rights historiography--I'm not an Americanist...). Because of your viewpoint as a feminist historian seeking to recover the voices/contributions that have been overlooked by historians, you're going to privilege certain things and pay less attention to others. That doesn't mean you're going to ignore something that totally undermines or even simply complicates your argument (to do so would be intellectually dishonest...), but you ARE trying to MAKE AN ARGUMENT about what happened in the past--you're not trying to "prove" something like a physicist would--historians know that somebody else can look at the same sources as you--or find other sources about the same time--and make a totally different argument that will be informed by that other person's own viewpoint. TheoryOfPractice 09:04, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
You're right of course about biases in academic study; we are human and subject to our various biases and prejudices and whatnot is what makes us human. It is and will always be impossible to research something in a completely objective way. It was just brilliant how my teacher was talking about keeping an open mind and all that, and everything he was saying reflected what's wrong with Schlafly's style of teaching. There's the obvious style of attempting to keep an open mind, then there's the style of seeking to prove something, which requires contrasting evidence treated impartially as possible, and then there's the style of ignoring everything and making the sun revolve around America. Schlafly of course is the latter. I wouldn't worry about me flaming you for civil rights historiography, I'm actually not very intelligent and it's highly likely you know more about it than me lol. SuperJosh "crying into a flannel" 13:12, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  St George's Day

I left my house this morning and noticed several St George's Cross Flags hanging out of various windows down my street. Then I remembered it's St George's Day and now I'm wondering how the BNP will be celebrating. Any ideas? I think Griffin'll be out playing a round of golf followed by the three-on-one beating of an Indian man. SuperJosh "crying into a flannel" 08:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Strange how we, by and large, ignore our "patron saint" when the other members of the (dis)United Kingdom make such a fuss of theirs. and marmite 08:32, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
I don't think St George's day is ignored as such, but we don't look at it, by and large, as an opportunity for a piss up, in the same way the Scots, Welsh and Irish see their patron saint days. There seem to be more St George's Day parades going on around the country this year than in previous years and the day is (slowly) no longer being associated with the more unpleasent aspects of English nationalism. Maybe in a few years we'll get a national holiday.
I for one will be heading off to the pub this evening to enjoy a couple of pints of ale to celebrate Shakespear's birthday. Bondurant 08:44, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
St David ftw! --PsyGremlinWhut? 08:48, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
George was apparently Turkish! Someone tell Nick Griffin. and marmite 08:52, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Not only that, but he's also the patron saint of Greece, Georgia, Portugal, Genoa, Milan, Beirut, Malta, Ethiopia, Lithuania and Palestine. Bondurant 08:59, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
(EC)Yeah, but people who are zealously patriotic don't exactly think like that do they? It's usually just piling on the rhetoric and then retelling urban legends about heartwarming patriotic stories. I'm very much behind the idea of switching official English celebrations to King Arthur day. It just makes so much more sense. ArmondikoVgnostic 09:04, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Toast says that "we, by and large, ignore our "patron saint" when the other members of the (dis)United Kingdom make such a fuss of theirs". I have a couple of objections to this. First of all I'm not sure who "we" is in this context. Is everybody English now? Secondly, I'm Welsh, and I have no idea when St David's day is. So I rather suspect this may depend on the individual.--Bobbing up 10:41, 23 April 2009 (EDT)--Bobbing up 10:41, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
I think it's a reference to St. Patrick's Day. Which has essentially become an excuse for people to get rollicking drunk, ergo, it appears that people fuss over it a lot more. ArmondikoVgnostic 10:46, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
(EC) King Arthur (if he existed at all) was a king of Britain, not England, so it would be another example, along with England fans using the Union Flag at England matches, of us misappropriating a British symbol. I don't particularly care who the "patron" is, though, as long as we get a day to celebrate, preferably away from work. Bondurant 10:47, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
EC EC) We = English; I is English & I was writing for my countrymen. Now, Yorkshire day (1st August) is a whole different coloured kettle of fish. and marmite 10:49, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
BobbyM has the main point methinks; just dependent on the individual. I'd completely forgotten it was St George's Day until I left my house and saw the few flags around. Most people are aware of Paddy's day on the other hand, probably just because of the stereotypical Irish drunk. (I'm not supporting this; I'm part Irish and a bloody lightweight.) SuperJosh "crying into a flannel" 13:21, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
For a USAish perspective, on St Patricks day the streets run green with beer. No one knows or cares about the other three. There is a reason, of sorts - huge Irish American communities in major Eastern cities, whose ancestors left Ireland because they "had to" (starvation) not because they "wanted to". ħuman 15:18, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Paging Dr. Babyshakes!

While Andy Schlafly might not have a problem with it (here's why, for those who weren't around in those heady days), this struck me as kinda messed up. TheoryOfPractice 10:35, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

I was just reading about that on Fux News. Pretty bad. What kind of sick person came up with that? If they really needed to make a "shake the X" program, they could've at least made a snowglobe, and shame on Apple for approving it. If people like having their phone do weird things when they move it, they should download the LightSaber for N95, it makes swooshy lightsaber noises when you swing your phone around! ...it also makes a cracking sound when you lose your grip and hurl your phone at the wall. -RedbackG'day 10:40, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Hah! That's nothing, back in the day I wrote a game for the Nokia 5500 sport called virtua morris dancing. I really ought to dig the code out for that and port it to newer phones with accelerometers. In the Wii era, people are probably willing to part with good money to make tits out of themselves to morris music. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 16:11, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  "There is a storm...."

Redux. Priceless. TheoryOfPractice 11:14, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

## To everything there is a season...

The time has finally come! RationalWiki is slatted for a site upgrade to just about everything. New MW software new and improved extensions. It will be a fun time for all. Tomorrow around 1600 site time (12 noon EST) Nx and I will get things rolling. There will be some downtime on the site, how much? Don't know. But we will be having a surprise guest appearance who will offer us a "home away from home" like we had during the server move. Stay tuned for more details. tmtoulouse 14:38, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Not the season of death, we hope. Bondurant 14:42, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Will the forums still function during the upgrade? How about (not that it matters really) RWW? Oh, and thanks for the 24 hour notice, I'm sure many appreciate knowing in advance! ħuman 15:24, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
The forum and other sites hosted should be unaffected. --  Nx/talk  15:43, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Will these slats be running lengthwise down the wiki, or are you going to go for a pattern? Is it an open style of slatting, or tight boards? Just curious. DogP 15:45, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

##  BBC2

Professor Regan's Medicine cabinet. Homeopathy. and marmite 16:09, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

TiVo'd :) Worm (t | c) 05:03, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Problem

Someone had better stop the username vandal over at RWW. Oh, and CUR, idiot that he is, appears to be convinced that it's me. Fall down 19:03, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

He was confused by the fact that it was you. Mei 19:05, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
Unfortunately you were his first vandal and I think he is still infatuated with you. - User $\pi$ 19:14, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
You also did the same on RW, didn't you? --  Nx/talk  04:30, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
I did what on RW? Fall down 06:13, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Create socks with offensive usernames knowing that removing them is not as easy as reverting an edit. --  Nx/talk  08:47, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

##  Geocities

Anyone else remember when every 5th or sixth website you hit was Geocities? Seems Yahoo couldn't make it pay. (\$3,570,000,000 down the drain) and marmite 08:29, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

Sheesh! I remember when I had a GeoC account. Built with the wonderful Hotdog WYSIWYG editor. --PsyGremlinWhut? 08:40, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
GeoCities? Whats that? :p Man, mentioning that takes me back. Anyone else remember All4One or Alta Vista? ArmondikoVgnostic 08:58, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
I never used All4One but HotBot was the shi'ite for a while. Mega 09:25, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Real men's dial up accounts came with free webspace. But, oh noes, where will conspiracy nuts host their websites now? (Also, isn't it sad that the BBC has given in to the perversion of calling 10^9 a billion? A billion is 10^12, foolish mortals. A million to the power 2, hence the "bi") --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 09:33, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
The million million v thousand million just demonstrates the Murkan influence - damnit!. and marmite 09:39, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Wonder what happened to my old "Freeserve" website - can't remember what I called it now. and marmite 09:40, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
• ahem*, both versions of "billion" are correct. And don't let me catch anyone saying "one's british and one's american" either. It's either Long Scale, where you roll over once you've doubled up, so a trillion is a billion billion and billion is a million million or Short Scale, which practically everyone in the world now uses as a standard because Long Scale can be a little awkward to get your head around when the numbers get really big. Just FYI... So, on topic, I also remember Freeserve. It was a bit shit really. ArmondikoVgnostic 10:35, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Well, it's Effin confusin' I was brought up on 1012 being a Billion, Why can't we use something like Milliard? and marmite 10:48, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
The lesbian mafia is busy teaching eager new celebritwit Lucy Lawless how to use Twitter, so at least I'll have something else to do today when RW goes down. Mega 11:08, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
I still remember being pissed because I wanted Netscape to beat IE. CorryBaby, you got a stew going. 19:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

##  Anzac Day

Today is Anzac Day, a very important day for Australians and New Zealanders. Today we remember those who fought at Gallipoli during the first World War.

 “”They went with songs to the battle, they were young.Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,They fell with their faces to the foe.They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.At the going down of the sun and in the morning,We will remember them.

Lest we forget. -Redback