Talk:Islamophobia
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[edit] Resources, I guess?
When I argue with Islamophobes on the internet, I really like to refer to this DeviantArt user because he's done a good job of explaining aspects of Islam that non-Muslims often see misrepresented in the media. This is another comic he made.
- Does he talk about the usual and proscribed penalty for apostasy? Does he address how he feels about blasphemy laws? Also, keep in mind that "Islam" is not some singular thing. There are plenty of Muslims out there who feel exactly as he/she does. However, there are plenty that don't. And I am not doing to sit here and argue over who has the "true" interpretation of a fiction book. Both are Islam to me. It's a curious thing - anything done in the name of religion is religion, by definition. However, merely doing something in the name of science does not make it science. Funny thing, that. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 22:12, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
[edit] How can one discribe "islamofobia" as a xenofobia while many immigrants are also anti islam?
So, "Islamophobia is a contraversial term used by persons who mention critism on the ideology of islam as a form of xenophobia, denying that many immigrants are also anti-islam." Dr. Dolittle 14:50, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Dude, read that sentence aloud - it barely makes sense. What are you trying to say? That some immigrants have a grudge against Islam? So what. I fail to see what you're getting at here. And for the umpteenth time, "Islam" takes a capital "I." PFoster 14:52, 28 December 2007 (EST)
- You're being too Manichaean, Dr.; just because bigots who are members of 'our' society hate the 'other', doesn't mean that other people can't, even if we would consider those other people an 'other'.-- מְתֻרְגְּמָן וִיקִי שְׁלֹום!
There is a large difference between those who are anti-Islam and those who have the visceral, gut level hatred of all things remotely Muslim (which is what xenophobia/Islamophobia are.) By the way, Hirsi Ali is not 100% anti-Islam, despite most of her public pronouncements. Many times she has had good things to say about it. Researcher 14:56, 28 December 2007 (EST)
I think this may be a language barrier issue. Dolittle believes that xenophobia means hatred of all foreigners and that is incompatible with Islamophobia because there are some foreigners who also hate Islam. I've tried to explain it as a subset on his talk page, but we'll see how he takes it. And, Researcher, I agree with you on Hirsi Ali. Again, it's on Dolittle's talk page. Stile4aly 15:00, 28 December 2007 (EST)
[edit] Racism category
Racism has been removed as a category by a recent user. Given that quite a lot of Islamophobia can be seen as old fears of brown folks, I think it's an appropriate categorization. Thoughts? The Wine of TyrantsDrunk with power again! 21:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- It's an interesting question - I think the cat is useful, by tying together fairly similar concepts. That Islamophobia is not actually racism in and of itself isn't as important as its overlap with racism. ħuman
22:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've reverted the cat back. Wëäŝëïöïď
Methinks it is a Weasel 22:14, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Islamists try to stifle criticism of Islam by calling it racism. If the racism category is not removed from this page, we might as well put most pages on the Wiki in that category on account of their attacks on Christianity.
ListenerXTalkerX 22:37, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Agree with Listener. Take it out. Broccoli (talk) 22:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- "Islamists try to stifle criticism of Islam by calling it racism" huh? And "most pages" here have attacks on Xtianity? What we need are more detailed criticisms of Islam and Wicca to balance things... ħuman
23:24, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- That was how they shoved the new blasphemy laws through in the U.K. Here are some more overt examples: [1] [2] [3] [4]
- There are attacks on Christianity on most pages on the Wiki, or at least most of those that mention religion.
ListenerXTalkerX 00:28, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- So what? Many aspects of Christianity are irrational, after all. Like I said, what we need to do long term is tear the other silly religions some good holes, too. We're just less familiar with them. ħuman
00:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- So what? Many aspects of Christianity are irrational, after all. Like I said, what we need to do long term is tear the other silly religions some good holes, too. We're just less familiar with them. ħuman
- "Islamists try to stifle criticism of Islam by calling it racism" huh? And "most pages" here have attacks on Xtianity? What we need are more detailed criticisms of Islam and Wicca to balance things... ħuman
- Agree with Listener. Take it out. Broccoli (talk) 22:41, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Islamists try to stifle criticism of Islam by calling it racism. If the racism category is not removed from this page, we might as well put most pages on the Wiki in that category on account of their attacks on Christianity.
- Agreed. I've reverted the cat back. Wëäŝëïöïď
Back to the question: Why is hatred of a reglion racism? Broccoli (talk) 00:53, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- In the Jewish tradition: is the fear surrounding Islam due to religion or race in the Western world? The Wine of TyrantsDrunk with power again! 01:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps the simple solution is to create a "bigotry" category? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 01:17, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- I like TheoryOfPractice's idea, here. Bigotry and racism are different, after all. The Spikey Punk I'm punking my punk! 01:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- "...is the fear surrounding Islam due to religion or race in the Western world?" I would say that it is mostly religious (a fear of having a new religion imposed), but other motivations are more cultural than racial.
- Human, I was not advocating removal of the attacks on Christianity; most of them are meritorious. I agree with TheoryOfPractice's suggestion for a "bigotry" category.
ListenerXTalkerX 02:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'm on board with category:bigotry. Nice work, folks. Let's do it. ħuman
03:21, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'm on board with category:bigotry. Nice work, folks. Let's do it. ħuman
- I like TheoryOfPractice's idea, here. Bigotry and racism are different, after all. The Spikey Punk I'm punking my punk! 01:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps the simple solution is to create a "bigotry" category? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 01:17, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
sorry, i dont know how to properly reply. i removed it because it is not racism. this is rational wiki, not stereotype wiki, where all christians are white, where all muslims are brown. i also agree with a bigotry category. again, sorry about not replying in the standard fashion.Logan (talk) 02:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- As much as your point regarding stereotypes is true, I simply point that the irrational Islamophobia may come out of the fact that Westerners probably don't think of white Muslims, even though they do exist in great numbers. You have to bring stereotypes to the table when you're talking about ill-placed hate.
I'll also throw in some support for a Bigotry category. I believe there's a racial component, but I don't think it's purely racial.The Wine of TyrantsDrunk with power again! 02:54, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- I think that component could be addressed in text in the article rather than using the cat, perhaps? ħuman
03:21, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- I added the article to the discrimination category since religion is unrelated to ethnicity, as stated on the Islam article. --GastonRabbit (talk) 16:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
- Here's the part I was referring to:
- I added the article to the discrimination category since religion is unrelated to ethnicity, as stated on the Islam article. --GastonRabbit (talk) 16:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
The terms "racism" and "Islamophobia" have often been conflated in recent years. The fact that Islam is a religion and not a race seems to matter very little.
I think the bigotry category would be a good idea, though. --GastonRabbit (talk) 16:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
[edit] "Examples of Islamophobia" section
This whole section seems a little... odd to me. Right now it's got quotations from three right-wing pundits, a description of a parody of right-wing pundits, and an account of a murder. I'm trying to think of better ways to format it; the three commentators could go in a section called "notable Islamophobes", for example, and there could be another section on crimes that have been attributed to Islamophobia. Any thoughts? Baljit (talk) 20:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
[edit] The current last sentence in the article could be improved
Can someone more gifted in prose help improve the "Of course, in full irony meter, Harris has gone on to call for the racial profiling of Muslims. Thanks, Sam! " with a bit about racial profiling being utterly ineffective against a faith that includes ALL races in its membership?Wzrd1 (talk) 05:33, 14 October 2012 (UTC)