Talk:JonTron

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[edit] JonTron really has lost his marbles

I went on to JonTron's twitter page and saw a few pics with people holding guns at their heads, that is totally insane. JonTron should see a psychiatrist.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 16:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Can you or anyone provide the context? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:25, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Unless RZ brings sources, just ignore it. It's nothing personal — it's my policy for all statements of things-that-could-and-should-be-sourced-but-are-not. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:33, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Gee, he said he preferred Phil Collins era Genesis. I don't know what more evidence you need, he's definitely insane in the mind. Nicklaus (talk) 08:59, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Jon breaks the silence

I don't mean to color this too much, but while I'm happy with some of the points he made (example highlight at 2:44-2:53 — I agree that saying "All of [RACE] is [BLANK]" is inescapably racist), I have a rather mixed opinion of the video overall. And I'm sad to say so.
As far as positives go, I also found 2:12-2:20 to contain a completely valid point on his part, quote:
"You can't keep banging the racial category drum, and then be shocked when people think in terms of racial categories!"
To that, I agree fully. People thinking exclusively in terms of identity politics (be they "SJWs" or white supremacists) seem to think themselves excused from the horseshoe. I need not point out that they never are.
As pertains to the rest of his statement — sure, he makes some obvious points on über identity politics which I think most people agree with him about — I really feel that this video wasn't close to the type of retraction of (read: apology for) his former statements that I would've personally wanted to hear. I mean, this video is even near-polemical at points! Facepalm.png
I was also a bit disconcerted by his statement around 1:17, something about:
"...white people speak up in the best interest of their race."
It almost seems that this is his own understanding of what his Twitch statements were — and if so, I'm sad to say, he's an idiot.
I think his worst statement was:
"...Anytime someone brings up an uncomfortable statistic, you freak out! And burn things down or something!"
If this is what he thinks even happened, he's an idiot. It's not that the statistics were "uncomfortable", as much as being completely fake (and white supremacist propaganda to boot!). Simply owning up to that fact — or even to having been tricked by them himself — would've been nice to hear!
Now, don't think I'm on a witchhunt here. Jon has the best position in the world to win me over. I'm a huge fan of the guy's work. I believe in live-and-let-live as pertains to offensive humor. I'm not the least bit crazy about identity politics. I've made my views on violent protesting clear before. But even so, I try not to be an ideological robot.
As such, I feel that Jon missed me in this video (and that's with basically all of my biases and pre-conceptions working to his advantage). I'm sad to say that right now, this whole "statement" video of his rings too much of a Brian apology to me. It really does.
I mean, It would've been so simple for him to be more apologetic in this video. I'm not saying, "grovel and squirm!". I'm saying, concede the fucking point, dude! I'm saying; maybe not a word of what was said on that one specific exact Twitch stream is worth defending.
Doesn't he realize that maybe we're all wondering where he's really standing right now, and sorta missing the chance to MASSIVELY distance himself from any type of white separatism is concerning enough on its own?
Instead, it still feels like he has his "cutting through the BS"-attitude in full swing — and that attitude just reeks of Dunning-Kruger. Though, as such, I suppose I owe him the interpretation to match. Still not happy about all this, though... *mumbles* Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:29, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Also — though Jon never actually said this — this comment to the video cracked me up hard:
I can't be racist, I'm a child of parents!
That is all. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:03, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
I think it's just easier to say "Well, I'm wrong, maybe my fears on 'demographic suicide' were a bit overblown, and I understand that some may be rightfully alarmed that my statements mirror that of well-known hate groups. I mean, nobody thinks clearly when they're scared and I did demonstrate a lack of clarity. I'm not into politics, so I shouldn't have acted like I know things. I do Destiny has a point now that I think about it since I realized that history repeats itself. I'm sorry." --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:12, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah — and instead of something like that, Jon was more like "THIS IS WHY TRUMP WINS JUST SAYIN'" Facepalm.png Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:15, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
I watched the video. It's starts off good but then goes to straight down to terrible surprisingly quickly. He seems to still seems to be defending himself. He should have just said sorry and said he's awful with handling sensitive topics and STOPPED RIGHT THERE. He completely ignores what he said in the stream and starts elaborating on something that he never started on (in this video he now acknowledges Irish discrimination when in the stream he denied it). To give him credit where it's due, I do support him being critical of identity politics (like RBP), but he executes his argument awfully. Jon also seems to think that seeing race is racist when I argue that the opposite is true. Not seeing race ignores the fact that other people see it and racially discriminate. It would be nice if everybody was race blind, unfortunately, in this era, this is not true, and it will be some time until this can be achieved. For the time being, we have to tend to the issue and being race blind doesn't tend to the issue, it perpetuates it.—127.0.0.1 (talk) 00:25, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Reverend Black Percy (talk) 08:38, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

[edit] More stuff to cover?

Reponse from fanbase

[...][A]fter the election he was interviewed by Breitbart (a far-right 'news' website) where he talked about his views on the election and the media. Since then he's done other things, like go on a hangout with controversial youtube pundit "Sargon of Akkad" to complain about left-wingers and Sargon's getting banned from twitter for tweeting gay porn at his alt-right followers (no, really).
127.0.0.1 (talk) 02:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Is this Internet drama? I guess we can write about him flirting with Brietbart; Carl of Swindon stuff is actually known before this stuff. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:47, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
TBH not worth it. All that stuff is pretty tame compared to what's on-page now. And JonTron is still very internet-drama-y -- it's only noteworthy because of how racist his views are, IMO. FuzzyCatPotato of the Doubtful Ectoplasms (talk/stalk) 13:29, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
I agree that Internet DramaTM shouldn't be covered. How about flirting with Breitbart though?—127.0.0.1 (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
Please compile all you can on his flirtations with the Alt-right for the talkpage. Based on what we locate, we can start looking at what, if anything, is worthy of mention in the article. Mainly, however, I fully agree with FCP and CBF above. And for the record — making the JonTron article center on simply presenting the man's own quotes was a stroke of genius. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/11/18/exclusive-youtub-star-jontron-i-dont-think-people-will-trust-the-media-anymore/
The article is short, but here's one thing I should bring up.
JT: I don’t know much about GamerGate [or] know what it was really about. But I think the GamerGate situation is [...] tied into [...] the social justice mindset [...] on a much bigger scale. Because it’s gone from video game blogs to our entire mainstream media [, the political environment of America right now is] a cataclysmic version of GamerGate.
Overall, it's not as bad as the twitch stream, but it still shows ignorance. He's talking in very vague terms because he doesn't know what he's talking about. He's claiming that GamerGate represents all the social justice warriors while admitting he knows very little about GamerGate.—127.0.0.1 (talk) 21:27, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
JonTron has flirted with teh GamerGaters for a bit now. This isn't new information, since this was published back in November and we had a GamerGate category added. So, perhaps one or two lines though it might be shoehorning a bit. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 00:34, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
This is also in the article:
I just think it’s funny that a couple of logical tweets have made me a “conservative,” such a strong label. I don’t even know what it means to be conservative, or what a conservative is anymore.
—Jon Jafari talking out of his ass
127.0.0.1 (talk) 00:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)


[edit] Iranian are non-white?

So, according to RatinalWiki Iranians are nominally non-white now? I haven't seen anybody BUT RationalWiki claim this. What's the underlying racial theory for this? See, it can't be the Nazi Rassenlehre because according to the Nazis, they're white. Aryan, in fact. It can't be the US legal system either because US courts consider Iranians white. I can't find a single citable source right now for RationalWiki's claim in this matter. You can only find a certain type of white supremacist who denies that Iranians are white in a very indirect manner by claiming to somehow know that alleged non-sourced white supremacist would disavow the whiteness of Iranians. See, if you, for some reason, needed a source to back up a claim how Iranians are non-white, RationalWiki would be the only one to quote right now.141.39.226.239 (talk) 13:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Easy, big fella! "We" consider all race categories to be bullshit to begin with. I think the snarky point being attempted (though perhaps poorly) is something along the lines of: reasoning in terms of "racial purity" always tends to backfire on the person doing so. It's easy to be in favor of white separatism — until the scheme progresses towards its logical conclusion, i.e. to the point where your supposed allies start asking paranoid questions about your parents. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:32, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
"We" don't give a fuck. According to modern-day neo-nazis, whose primary wedge into the public debate is anti-Islamic sentiment, Iranians aren't white. That's because "white" to them, is a shibboleth for "a just big enough cross-section of direct European ancestory as to represent a majority of Americans." Jon would naturally like to include himself in that set, because that's how being an ingroup-obsessed authoritarian nitwit works.
The fact the ethnonationalist politics are a load of bullshit doesn't really stop anyone from believing in them. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 15:06, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
"According to modern-day neo-nazis, whose primary wedge into the public debate is anti-Islamic sentiment, Iranians aren't white." Again you do the very thing I criticized you for. You provide absolutely no evidence that this is, in fact, an opinion existing among white supremacists AND that this opinion has a sizeable following. The only reason you could claim any of this with confidence despite the clear lack of evidence is that you know for a fact that YOU are one such white supremacist who holds such beliefs. This is not the first time I have to point out that RationalWiki is making unsourced claims. I took the time to look through some user accounts and turns out most you are academic failures. Wow, what a non-surprise! People who don't understand citation rules drop out of college? Who would've thought!141.39.226.239 (talk) 08:16, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, just as Andy showed us the vital importance of having a formal education, Ikanreed taught us that Hitler, in fact, did nothing wrong. You've understood things perfectly. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:58, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Man, where did this college drop-out thing come from? I'm curious what kind failed-ass internet detectivery went into that particular claim. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 18:25, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Yeah "dropout". Little does he know you were actually homeschooled in a diploma mill. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:58, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Please, I got expelled from pre-natal care for poor performance. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 22:00, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
"Go back to the start. By which I mean kindergarten!" - Maddox Reverend Black Percy (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
lol, you know when someone devolves into extra pathetic when they "cleverly" personally attack us about "academic failure". BoN, you're not worth our time. Continue ranting all you want, but you're not getting any further reply from me. Bye. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 23:41, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Concerning hand gesture

At 1:16 in the video Love Is Like Drugs - ft. Schmoyoho (Short Version), Jafari makes a gesture suspiciously similar to a Nazi saluteWikipedia's W.svg. This could very easily be a false alarm, but there were several comments from six months ago (before both his Sargon of Akkad and Destiny streams) who interpreted the gesture as a Nazi salute. Considering his other subtle dog whistles, it is plausible this was deliberate but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. --CowHouse (talk) 04:12, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Seems unlikely; give him benefit of the doubt. Those accounts probably wanted to get attention with a Hitler joke -- and weren't aimed at critiquing the choreography of a JonTron performance.
Also remember: lots of shaky evidence like this isn't nearly as helpful as a few examples of undeniable bigotry, if attempting to document JonTron's bigotry. Cømяade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 04:30, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Goodpost.gif Don't search too diligently for 'hidden' signs of bigotry (or what have you) — because by doing so, you'll end up finding them everywhere. This, by the way, is not a good thing. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:46, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Trump and one of his advisors are white nationalists if you squint hard enough, don't dilute legitimate criticism of morons with comparisons to Hitler. Christopher (talk) 20:28, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
A lot of people with alt-right beliefs know what they can and can't say. They use coded language and symbolism many would ignore or not even notice, but fellow alt-right people definitely get the message. If Jafari believed in antisemitic conspiracies he's not stupid enough to say it outright in an "undeniable" manner. I added this to the talk page because I thought it was unlikely, and largely wanted confirmation. I also don't agree that it's pareidolia or a conspiracy theory since he has basically already confirmed white nationalist sympathies. If he had not already done so, then I would be being completely unreasonable. Here's another example of something he said that I think is worth discussing. In a January 30, 2017 podcast with psychicpebbles, Schmucks Ep 1 (starting at 25:58), Jafari says "I just find history interesting because you can find patterns or echoes to the modern day". Compare this to the explanation for the use of triple parenthesesWikipedia's W.svg on Wikipedia: The editors of The Right Stuff explained that the use of an echo, represented in text using triple parentheses, was an internal meme meant to symbolize an opinion that the actions of Jews in the past cause their names to "echo throughout history." Again, this is only suspicious in light of his other alt-right beliefs and because he knows how to use effective dog whistles (see "/our guy/" and "thanks goys" on the main page). --CowHouse (talk) 01:05, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
Even if it wasn't pareidolia (and I still think it is), if you know nothing about JonTron and you hear "look! He did something which looks sorta like a Nazi salute if you squint in the right way! He's a Nazi!" You'd rightly dismiss it as confirmation bias. There's no need to use rubbish "evidence" like this to show that he's a racist when there's so much actual evidence. Christopher (talk) 17:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
I think you missed the most important parts of what I said: I added this to the talk page because I thought it was unlikely, and largely wanted confirmation and Here's another example of something he said that I think is worth discussing. I literally noticed it and thought "this is probably nothing but I'll see what everyone else thinks." It was only ever circumstantial at best, and I wouldn't even go that far because I don't think this is proof he is a Nazi. Now, any thoughts on the quote I mentioned? --CowHouse (talk) 18:06, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Should JonTron be in the alt-right category?

What are everyone's thoughts on adding JonTron to the alt-right category? --CowHouse (talk) 16:10, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Speaking in terms of wiki categories, yes. He's relevant to the spread of alt-right memes. Speaking in terms of his ideology, probably not. oʇɐʇoԀʇɐϽʎzznℲ (talk/stalk) 17:24, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
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