Talk:Mormonism

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Joseph smith himself not racist[edit]

The mormon church was, and still is, a very backwards religion with deep prejudices regarding african americans. Joseph himself, though, was not nearly as twisted as this. In 1836, he made Elijah Abel, a black man, the elder of the melchidezek priesthood. — Unsigned, by: 144.92.52.243 / talk / contribs

There were racists among some of the people in the early days of the church and it is possible that originated the ban on priesthood for blacks, but there are other theories that are worth considering such as the position it would have placed blacks in being stigmatized as they already were and then to become clergy in a hated church etc., but most Mormons despise racism and racists just like any other group now days. - Mormon guy — Unsigned, by: 134.50.162.123 / talk / contribs 10 September 2014
The term for the type of racism that Joseph Smith espoused is "paternalistic racism" in which white Americans viewed themselves as responsible for blacks who they believed to be too incompetent to sustain themselves outside the institution of slavery. This framework explains why on one hand Joseph's official presidential platform supported slavery (not as a moral good, but as a necessary evil) but on the other he would offer the priesthood to Elijah Able, as a means to help him out. It also explains the racist doctrine in the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham that sinful actions result in darker skin in your posterity. Paternalistic racism was the predominant form of racism in the United States until the 1850's or so when John Calhoun successfully convinced the public (and Brigham Young, apparently) to embrace white supremacy. Calhoun argued in 1837 that slavery was a positive good necessary for the stability of society, and that whites were always better than blacks, not a necessary evil as many had claimed before. It is quite striking that the racism of both Joseph and Brigham strongly mirrored their contemporaries. It's easy to think Joseph was not a racist because compared to Brigham's racism, Joseph seems a saint. But make no mistake, Joseph was no abolitionist, and his kind treatment of blacks was paternalistic, not egalitarian. - frogontrombone 130.132.173.185 (talk) 15:30, 19 August 2019 (UTC) 19 August 2019

Why is it....[edit]

Every time I read the word "mormon" I seem to think it says "moron" and vice versa? Sure, you could say they are interchangable, but I was just wondering if anybody else sees the same thing or if I am just crazy. ConfickerInternational womon of mystery

Theology[edit]

I've noticed some of the theology claims are inaccurate. First, with the sealing thing, I know couples who were sealed to adopted children, so the claims it's only for couples is false. Second, the Book of Abraham does not say that God lives on Kolob (which is actually described as a star, not a planet), merely that it's closed to God, and the only thing about planets is basically describing orbits as a hierarchy. The claim Mormon's get their own planet is indeed a caricature of the idea of exhalation. Finally the Celestial Kingdom isn't only for married couples, it's the highest level of the Celestial King, exhalation, which requires marriage.

Mormonism and the "Negro." (Race and the Priesthood)[edit]

It's always better to learn what the church says it believes in first, before moving on to things people who don't like the church--particularly rival religious gangs--have to say about what Mormons believe. But it always amazes me that so-called "liberals" and the "enlightened" intellectuals always go straight for the racism angle, when the fact remains that Joseph Smith was killed by a mob of hillbilly rednecks fired up by their local preachers to murder a heretic because he was running for president on a platform of buying up all the slaves and returning them to Africa, their rightful home. (Sound like Liberia anyone?) Mormons were burned, raped and slaughtered out of Missouri by hillbilly rednecks who wanted to neutralize their political power and take their land because the Tennessee hicks who were moving there in droves had dreams of owning plantations powered by slaves just like the south they'd left for the cheap land in the new frontier--but of course, Mormons bought up all the land, improved it, and raised property prices. They took in "free Negroes" and wanted a non-slave state. Three or four generations of the KKK rated Mormonism as the Klan's most dreaded enemy. Having said that however, Brigham Young and his successors had some very Victorian notions about race.

https://realgreattalk.wordpress.com/author/roycelerwick/ — Unsigned, by: 174.53.167.122 / talk

Connections to Freemasonry - not just a conspiracy theory[edit]

I noticed that this article only mentions Mormonism's resemblance to Freemasonry once, in a way that's somewhat misleading.

"The endowment ceremony has been the source of conspiracy theories by anti-Mormon fundamentalist Christians that the ceremony is secretly Satanic or Masonic in nature..."

This implies that Mormonism has no genuine connection to/takes no inspiration from Freemasonry when the opposite seems to be the case. Wikipedia has an extensive article of its own on wp:Mormonism and Freemasonry, but to enumerate the points I consider worth noting in relation to Mormon temple worship:

  • Several early Mormon leaders, including Joseph Smith's father and older brother, were initially Masons.
  • Temple garb is similar in both groups, especially with the short aprons around the waist.
  • Passwords and handshakes are used in both temples, for similar reasons (member identification, to each other vs. to an angel).
  • The Salt Lake Temple bears "All-Seeing Eye" iconography, similar to the Eye of Providence. n either context, it symbolizes God's watchfulness.

I think this could be worth discussing here, to a more limited extent, maybe as part of an article on Mormon temple customs in general. --Zoe Kirk (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2021 (UTC)