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This is a place for general chit-chat about virtually anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
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The Bar
(talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (*cough*) (hic)

Pointless poll

Would it be better if Canada...?

Joined the European Union1Vote
Turned into the 51st US State5Vote
Became a Caribbean Island5Vote
Entered the Eurovision contest (like Australia)6Vote
Became the first country to land a person on the Sun3Vote
Replaced their entire military cache of weapons with Nerf guns16Vote
Gave every citizen a free goat12Vote

Should we remove "the R-Word" from our lexicon?

It's a hateful word, and the r-word and all variants should be eliminated entirely from our lexicon20Vote
It certainly could be reduced, and shouldn't be used to describe/insult those with actual developmental disabilities, but should still be acceptable depending on context38Vote
I'm against the excessive use of all slurs and cursewords, because much like your mother, they've lost a lot of appeal from overuse2Vote
There's no point in fighting the euphemism treadmill, just leave it as is, lest we start calling each other "differently abled person of size" as the go-to insult15Vote
What's the point? It's an accurate description of this poll and everyone involved10Vote
I'm only interested in words that refer to Goats, so this doesn't affect me1Vote
Please don’t use it if you’re not one of the people that it’s a slur against. It can be upsetting to many of the people who’ve had it directed at them for being disabled or neurodivergent, even if it’s not intended that way.7Vote

Which fundie school should have a RW article?

Andersonville Theological Seminary1Vote
West Coast Baptist College17Vote
Grand Canyon University3Vote
Jimmy Swaggart Bible College3Vote
Clarks Summit University0Vote
Crown College1Vote
Golden State Baptist College1Vote
Zombie Squirrel Theological Seminary (Are you serious RZ94?)17Vote

What will be the 51st state?

Puerto Rico17Vote
US Virgin Islands0Vote
State of Jefferson2Vote
There will never be a 51st state28Vote
Lincoln (eastern Washington, northern Idaho)1Vote
Goat Town (currently in Georgia)2Vote
To do list

Is it possible to not be liked no matter what you do?[edit]

Just wondering because that seems to be my own experience. I've read the books and followed the social skills guides but friends don't seem to stick, well assuming I even get to that point. Are some people just beyond any sort of help?Machina (talk) 05:25, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

As the song goes, "You see, you can't please everyone. So you got to please yourself." Bongolian (talk) 05:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
I don't know you in person so I'll just do everything even if you already have this all down...
1) Hygiene. No one likes being around someone that smells, and if you must have a "logical" reason, quite simply, evolution killed off the people who got too close to those who were covered in filth. Brush your teeth daily, and while it might not seem like a big deal, keep your hair/beard neatly trimmed.
2) Clothes. As stupid as it sounds, good clothes show the world you have the few minutes to spare on your appearance. Don't wear ratty clothing, even if it's just "a small hole". It's also tough, since expensive, but if you have patience you can find the occasional good thing at a consignment shop or thrift store. It's ok if it's a tad out of style, but it must be in decent shape.
3) Be useful. You need to add something to people's lives beyond a presence. Everyone wants to stay in touch with the guy who they can depend on, whether that's due to some special skill or can take them to the airport. If you know your way around cars, your friends will ask you about car stuff. If you have a pickup truck, everyone and their mother will keep in touch for moving things. If you are great at home repair, people will ask for advice on home maintenance. Find something and learn it well. Note: Do not, I repeat, DO NOT be the "Computer Guy".
4) Make people feel special. This may be the hardest, but is also the most important. It's something few people can do well, but if you can, well, you will need nothing else in life. People remember how they feel around you, and if they feel good around you, they want to be around you more. It's something that every politician has mastered; when they enter the room and talk to you, they make you feel like the most important person on Earth. It's going to be little things like small but seemingly genuine compliments, noticing improvements and praising people, and so forth. Corinth (chat) 06:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
That sounds like good advice. What is it with 'the computer guy'? I once read the book How to Make Friends and Influence PeopleWikipedia and found it to be a total waste of time unless perhaps one wants to sell shit. The contrast between your advice, CorruptUser, and the that book is that being earnest about making people feel special is important, most people can detect fakery and that book is all about fakery. Bongolian (talk) 08:44, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
No it is not possible. You are trying to be friends with people who are not reliable to be friends with AND/OR you need to develop certain social skills. There is no reason you cannot maintain a friendship with someone. ShabiDOO 11:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
@Bongolian. Because being "the computer guy" means you get to spend an hour over the phone trying to explain how to use a basic computer function with your grandmother who actively fights you on how to use a computer in spite of calling you for help, other members of your family insisting you work many hours for free building them some stupid website because they think all computers are toys and therefore you must be having fun all while fighting you on web design, oh and then calling you up at 2 am to fix their website when they inevitably screw it up, you get to do an untold number of godawful projects for other friends and family and get no respect for it. Just don't bother. If you are good with computers, whenever someone asks you if you are good with computers, always say "I'm good enough that I charge money". If people pay you, they respect your work more and don't bother you with stupid shit, and chances are their request was some stupid shit they aren't willing to pay for. I'm not the computer guy in my family (luckily that's my uncle, followed by my dad), but when I get requests I just tell people to download Opera and uBlock Origin first. If they don't do that, I won't help further. Corinth (chat) 14:25, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
No. It's not possible to be a person no one likes when you're trying to be decent and kind and tolerable. No amount of having weird quirks or having unattractive qualities will drive every single person away. It's very possible for some people to never like you. Easy, in fact. And it's much harder to make friends as an adult. Especially post social-media. There's still options. (Post COVID only) join an in-person interest group, go do things, if you're bad at it, it's a learning experience, and there's always someone who likes showing the newbies the ropes. Join an exercise group, especially, as everyone there is doing it because other people make an unpleasant task less unpleasant. Make active time in your schedule for socializing. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 14:59, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
im not sure im friends with anyone because they are 'useful' to me. that might serve as an introduction, but it doesnt maintain a friendship. clothing and personal hygiene - these are first impression things not the foundations of a beautiful friendship. can you talk to each other? can you relax around people, are they relaxed around you? pick up enough cues to be able to tell someone dislikes you and able to know what jsnt your own paranoia. can you just chill?
you can google for a billion different tricks and rules on what you are supposed to do - 'be yourself' for example. all things easier said than done. its all experience and enough self confidence to not assume the worst and put up all kinds of barriers you dont even know you are doing. if you are relaxed around people they'll be like the wise around you. nervous or tense around people, you'll make them tense. unless they are arseholes people will usually make allowances for the nerves of new aquaintances to put them at ease (or they equally awkward, with both parties thinking the other hates them), but there are limits to peoples patience early on. an established relationship might warrant putting some work in, but passing acquaintences will likely remain so if they are a little too much work early on. you might find small groups takes the pressure off or you might not.
as said, experience and self confidence. be at ease with yourself enough that you are not crushed that someone you barely know hasnt become a soul mate. there arent any short cuts, but a 'hey hows it going?' on whats app can work wonders. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:26, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Really? Would you be willing to drive your friends to the airport? If they lost their home, could they couch-surf for a few days? Do you offer to make them dinner? Are you able to dog-sit their border collie if they have to go out of town for a few days? Because those are all very useful things that friends do for each other. It's not the main reason friendships form, but just see how long you keep someone around who can't be relied on for anything while still insisting you do stuff for them. Nobody likes a mooch.
Clothes are a first impressions thing, but hygiene is not. Your friends won't mind seeing a scraggly beard, but they absolutely won't put up with bad breath and old sweat if they have to deal with that every time they visit you. Corinth (chat) 15:39, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
I feel that's kinda become a hyper-fixation of the discussion. There are all sorts of flaws you can have that, in extremis, will drive people away. Smelling bad, sure. But also being argumentative(hello about one third of this wiki), constantly talking too loud, being demanding, failing to control your pets, there's all sorts of ways you can be positively infuriating if you don't make an effort to get along. Keep yourself clean, but I think there's no reason to think Machina has some unshowered stink aura. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:48, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
It's more of a general thing. I know one guy who's trying to be everyone's friend, let's call him "Jason", but no one can stand him. His body odor isn't terrible, but Jason is disliked by everyone. His home is filthy, he leaves fish out for a couple of days and the place reeks. There's dirty dishes left in the sink for a week so they rot. His home is a death trap due to poor maintenance; seriously, how hard is it to use a screwdriver and tighten up the door handles whenever they get a bit too loose? His car is a stinky wreck and he's incredibly disorganized, when he asked me to help him move there was no space in his car because the backseat and trunk was filled with random garbage so I don't know how he expected to move anything. I started emptying out his trunk of trash and found rotten vegetables from months prior, it was just beyond gross. Jason was moving because the owner found out about how filthy the place was that they decided to "move back in" and not renew the lease, but Jason doesn't seem to realize this. Now Jason thinks he can quit his job and become a landlord instead, buying a house and using AirBnB to rent it out, not understanding that AirBnB has a rating system that will let everyone else know just how much of a disaster anything he owns is, and if he decides to rent traditionally what kind of tenant is going to put up with a landlord that can't even do basic repairs? And just how much profit does he think landlords get per month? Not enough to live on yourself from just one house, otherwise the tenant would just get a mortgage and buy the place themselves.
Oh, and Jason is an anti-masker to boot. And does nothing to help others, but is always asking for help for his stuff. Corinth (chat) 16:38, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
there are a whole manner of reasons for someones poor life choices, disagreeable habits, or general shambolic lifesyle. mental issues, learning difficulties, substance abuse issues, a history of homelessness, a traumatic event or the loss of a loved can all contribute to ones own neglect or state of crisis. things creep up slowly, you put things off, putting up with a situations not so bad to begin with, but you find you gotten used to the squalor at the same rate it has worsened. you see news stories about hoarders or drug addicts in truly awful living spaces that no sane person would put up with had it not just gradually happened around them, with no 'intervention'. we can look at these people disgust, shame them for their failings, listing all their shortcomings in our judgement. we would never turn out like these creatures. often they'd thought that themselves at one point.
maybe if friends were around before things had progressed to whatever the current situation has, it would be easier to guide such a character to stop doing something, make a habit to do something else. maybe they tried but were pushed away. i couldnt blame anyone for an unwillingness to engage with apparently troubled individuals it can put you in a difficult situation you might not be equipped to deal with.
i dont want to comment on his guys specific situation, i dont know enough details. all i can say i hope the relevent social services are aware of them as it seems they may be required. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:05, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
The guy was making something like $70+k/yr. Lack of money was never his problem. Jason does have one other friend, but that's also someone no one else seems to like.
As for the general case, no one in the world will care why you are a trainwreck in the shape of a human, and that's the harsh truth of this world. It's so harsh because we, society, have all been lying to you all this time, and the Great Lie of society has been getting bigger and nastier. We aren't inclusive, we aren't tolerant, we are judgemental, and worst of all we won't tell someone why we don't like them. We've created a world where no one is allowed to tell someone why they don't like them; go to a job interview and when you get passed over, the hiring manager used to be able to tell you exactly what you did wrong, but today, to protect themselves from lawsuits it's policy to just say "we decided to go with another candidate" even if the job opening is still posted 2 months later. We've been trained to avoid conflict at all costs, even the slightest hint of confrontational behavior is generally shunned, but the result is a world where no one can tell you what it is that you do wrong. Corinth (chat) 18:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
There is no one recipee to making and keeping friends. Best advice is to watch out for selfish/useless/toxic people (which can be a little difficult as they may seem charming at first which also means not "fully" trusting people too quickly but you should develop this as you get olders). Other general rules of thumb are to reciprocate in a relationship with anyone (try to give as much as they are giving if you want it to develop and if you think it's worth it and don't give notably more than they are willing (this includes listening, helping, caring, favours, suggesting things etc). If you give a fraction of what they do the friendship might fizzle out. If you give way more then they will probably take you for granted. Don't overwhelm a developing friend with your problems, clinginess, eagerness and realise and respect their boundaries and try to pick up on non-verbalised social cues as those are non-verbally defined (if you are oblivious to most social cues you can learn about them through family and acquaintances). My worst friendships were usually the casual university friends or ex-pat friends who were a total fucking ball to party with but disappeared when you needed the slightest favour and a few charming people who turned out to be total douches a couple months into the friendships. I have generally found as you get older or leave easy to meet people environments like younger working places or school you have to put more effort into meeting people. This includes clubs, sports, couchsurfing, meetup.com events and going to not that interesting things people suggest you go to as you may meet others. I would say that for every group of people I suggest we meet up, get their number to have drinks or go do something with, have an impromptu party with, invite over to dinner and so on...maybe 5% turn into real friendships. So for every long term meaningful friend there were 19 people whose attempts to befriend turned into acquaintances, party-friends or usually never saw them again. Unless you have an insanely magnetic personality, are lucky, have a hyper social parter or are connected...that means you have to put notable effort into making sustainable meaningful friendships and get over it if that bothers you cause nobody is going to to that work for you. ShabiDOO 19:14, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
If nobody likes you, it is a bad sign. It's sorta true people will take a liking to you despite yourself if you are a humane person. The question is, do you even realize that people like you, despite being distracted by metaphysical questions? It may be difficult to find friends that are like the friends of childhood. But those are not the kind of friends you probably need. Ariel31459 (talk) 02:18, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok a lot to process so I'll keep it short. IT's not clothes or hygiene (I mostly go in shorts and t shirt since I walk a lot or go to the gym and sneakers). I'll dress up a little more around company. And I can promise you people DO forget how you made them feel, it happens to me all the time. The being useful part doesn't work either since it just leads to you being used, which is also my case.

Confidence does not work either. People tend to stop messaging or wanting to hang up rather quickly as well when they see I don't need much to have fun. In short, I live a "boring life". It's quite but I like it, even if it's lonely. But I can assure you it is possible to have no one like you when you're trying to be kind, tolerate, and easy to be around. YOu know why? Because that is the default. IT's the background noise in day to day. I've joined groups, done things, but it leads nowhere. EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. I'm even a ghost in my own house, people don't know if im in or out or even see my walk by. The only time people notice is when you don't do something for them, that's it. Trust me it is quite possible because that is my reality. I'm decent, kind, and easy in public but no one wants to talk or if they do they don't want to stay. IT's just something I need to get used to I guess.Machina (talk) 06:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

That's just it, you don't know how the other person feels around you, so you don't know if they actually enjoyed being around you. If you have a problem in somewhere else, no one will tell you. We've created a society where, to avoid offending anyone, we absolutely fuck over anyone who doesn't know why they don't fit in.
As for being "boring", if you spend all your free time watching TV, you could try organizing a "bad movie night" every Thursday or something along those lines, once the pandemic ends of course. You don't always have to host it, though you will have to host the first few. Again, this is more a general thing and not specific to any person, but the host should make sure the place is clean and provide plenty of snacks and drinks. Corinth (chat) 14:04, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Don't know if it helps any, but a lot of Discords I'm in have started hosting movie nights (can't attend them myself since timezones mean it's overwhelmingly US focused or not movies I'm interested in). You could consider joining in on one of those. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 14:24, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
A shit ton of people form new meaningful friendships around the world every day. I've had no problem developing one or more meaningful long term friendships in several countries spanning most classes and genders/sexualities as well as covering a few very divergent cultures. If you live in a modern open society and your friendships aren't working out then you are almost certainly need to change you approach/outlook. There is no reason you have to be lonely. ShabiDOO 14:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Except there is. IT's not my approach or outlook it's just me. No one is interested and no one wants to stay. I have accepted that I am a ghost after failing miserably for years. I have hosted before and did everything right but no one wanted to come again after that. Yes there are tons who make friends but there are also those who are doomed to be alone no matter what they do. I'm just one of those unlucky few who are. That is the reason I am lonely so there clearly is one. People just don't want to be around me even though I haven't done anything to them.

And yes I do know they didn't like me, it's pretty obvious from their interactions and body language. People aren't as covert with their dislikes as they want to admit.Machina (talk) 23:06, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Machina you aren't a magical being who is incapable of making friends no matter what you do. Put in the effort of meeting lots of people, think thoughtfully about how you approach people, learn from your failures and a friendship will arrive. Put in the work, be patient and adapt to the extent you are comfortable. Also...consider dealing with the rest of your life problems (they are usually interconnected). ShabiDOO 00:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Well apparently I am magical like that, yay.... Like I said, I've done all that for over 15 years and every attempt fails no matter the approach. So that's it, it's clear it's just me. When you change everything else and nothing works the only thing left is you.Machina (talk) 06:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I came across this video. Perhaps it will be helpful.
Ariel31459 (talk) 19:59, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
No...there is no reason you cannot make friends. Put move effort into it. Stop with the defeatist and pessimistic nonsense. ShabiDOO 20:19, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
Oh, at least watch the video, it's only six minutes.Ariel31459 (talk) 20:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
Ariel I don't care for some of this guy's videos because he often makes lots of broad sweeping claims that over simplify things (for example his claim about insomnia). Machina didn't ask for an alternative to friendship (for example this videos strange answer to issues via art). There are ways to be more direct and honest with people without hurting them, expressing your inner problems without overwhelming people and connecting with people who have a different way of thinking. If forming friendships are important, than putting a serious amount of effort into meeting people and developing friendships is the answer (and that may include therapy). Going "it just won't for for me" and hiding in the world of art isn't the answer for someone who is lonely and craves connections with people (though obviously art is helpful to everyone in many ways). ShabiDOO 21:05, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
Machina, I like you. And the problem is, it's not by any metric you would accept my feelings as "liking" you, partly because parasocial relationships are easy, but partly because I think I get what you're talking about when you're talking about it. I am always willing to engage with you, I care about what you have to say, and I honestly appreciate it when you engage. But on the occasions that you frustrate me, or anyone, I would say that your criteria for how I'm supposed to like you doesn't override my actualization of liking a person, enjoying their contributions, and interpreting the relationship. It is different from yours, and I know it's hard to put into practice. You have all the power when it boils down to who you like and don't like. So does everybody else. People generally say things that they want to hear. I think you're right to rely on yourself, but thinking just because nobody wants to hear what you want to say or appreciate what you do means they don't like you is an ass take. But you're also right, that's a hard way to go. I don't maintain relationships well. I tend to drop off the map. But people just kinda forget I exist for a while, they don't dislike me. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Shabi you’re wrong here for reasons I’m tired of explaining. The reality is that despite all my efforts no one likes me no matter my approach or time invested so that’s it then. I give up. As I said if you try different ways and nothing changes the then problem is you. People just don’t want me at all and that’s ok.Machina (talk) 16:53, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Why do you think that is? You can’t really believe it’s ok, you’re clearly upset about it now and have been depressed for years from what I remember, loneliness can’t be helping that. You can’t be alone for your whole life.
I can’t and won’t diagnose you, but if you’ve just never been able to make friends you may be autistic, in which case you could talk to other autistic people, you’re on an atheist/skeptic wiki so you’re already halfway there.
The sad reality is no one likes someone who’s miserable all the time, is it possible people can tell you’re unhappy and avoid you for that reason? If that’s the case, you’re trapped in a cycle with misery feeding loneliness and loneliness feeding misery that’s very hard to escape from, but it’s not impossible. I’m sure you’ve heard all the advice about antidepressants or more exercise before.
Sorry if I’m being a bit blunt here. As someone who is autistic, it’s a reason a lot of people don’t like me. Christopher (talk) 18:48, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm high functioning yes, but no one can tell I am unhappy. I mask it very well. I've tried social groups for people on the spectrum but I don't fit in there. The people in those groups are far worse off than I am. It's not the autism part because I've seen other people on the spectrum have people like and befriend them. Yes I am sad about it but I know there is nothing I can do.Machina (talk) 23:47, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

'no one can tell I am unhappy' i can almost guarantee people will be picking up something that will make them at least wary. you absolutely positive there isnt anything, consider taking up poker. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:34, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Bluffing in a card game is a bit different from faking being happy in reality. I can fake happy, I can't bluff in poker. But it's easier in reality. But suffice to say there is nothing I give off that would lead people to think I am unhappy. That I guarantee.Machina (talk) 01:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Be like Ace. Ace has many friends and many enemies but no one who actively dislikes him (In RL I mean - I am sure many people on RW do not like Ace). AceSimple Maze 03:08, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Ace has excellent hygiene, is well dressed and willing to drop anything to come to the aid of someone in need (a weird trait for a committed misanthrope). AceSimple Maze 03:22, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Is the mantle, outer core and core (or simply, our understanding of the inside of the earth) just a hypothesis[edit]

I watched some video, can't remember where I found it but it was basically one of those God awful top 5/10/15/20 channels and in it it said that our understanding of the inner earth is nothing more but a hypothesis. I looked at the sources for the video, which for that fact there were only 2. One of them was this BBC article and (I shit you not) a tiktok of a geology major (I'm assuming that's at university level) talking about how what we know of the inside of the earth is only a hypothesis (this was part of some STEM major's "tell us a fact that people don't know" challenge, I don't know, I don't use tiktok).

Just was curious about, I don't know how accurate that statement is and, if taken out of context, it could unfortunately lend some room to more crackpot ideas out there.--WMS (talk) 23:06, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Excuse my elementary level knowledge of the topic, but I'm almost certain it is not just a hypothesis. National Geographic talks of it as definitive and proven. Take this excerpt from here:
Seismologists noticed that records from an earthquake made around the world changed radically once the event was more than a certain distance away, about 105 degrees in terms of the angle between the earthquake and the seismograph as measured at the center of the earth. After 105 degrees the direct P- and S- waves disappeared almost completely, but slow surface waves and waves taking other paths would arrive from over the horizon. The area beyond 105 degrees distance forms a shadow zone. At larger distances, some P waves that travel through the liquid core (path K on the figure above) would arrive, but still no S waves. The Earth has to have a molten, fluid core to explain the lack of S waves in the shadow zone, and the bending of P waves to form their shadow zone.
So yeah, I would say it has been backed up by evidence and should be considered as truth. Moria (talk) 00:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
In scientific language I guess it would depend on when you upgrade a hypothesis to a full blown scientific theory. I would have thought we were there.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 08:12, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Tectonic plates and continental drift are definitely considered a theory (they are more than a hypothesis), and they float on top of our ideas about the inner earth. Specific details about the inner earth will be hypotheses (e.g. estimates of the exact temperature or composition of the core), but the general idea is well-attested. --Annanoon (talk) 13:48, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree. Continental drift is about as well-established as a scientific theory can be. It has vast explanatory and predictive power and fits well with observations from other sciences. How exactly the core works is a bit more of an open question. For example (as far as I am aware) we have no good explanations about why the magnetic poles weaken and sometimes reverse. So it's clear that our understanding of the interior is less complete.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 14:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
the atlanteans probably got a good handle on the nature of earths core and the like. thats where they moved atlantis to after all. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:28, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
You know that Atlantis was just a hypothetical thought exercise, not an actual historical place, right? Lemuria, on the other hand... Corinth (chat) 15:10, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
I thought that all autism causing vaccines and all chem trails led to Atlantis! ShabiDOO 15:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
got me covid vac last week so any inaccuracies you can blame on the autism it gave me and bill gates making me do bad things via the microchip implanted. AMassiveGay (talk) 16:03, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
You got lucky. Bill Gates' microchips keep crashing on contact with my blood, and so I need to install the latest updates to be compatible with the blood microchips, but my body gets poor wifi reception. Can someone send me a package of blood with the updates? Corinth (chat) 21:48, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
You may have stumbled on the whole point of the conspiracy theory! The usual problem with conspiracy theories is the "why" bit. Why fake a Moon landing? Why pretend the Earth is a spherical? Why hide evidence of alien contacts? And, why inject a microchip?
But it's suddenly all clear. Bill Gates, in typical Microsoft fashion, wants to make money selling the updates!Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 13:50, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

How to prove natural selection[edit]

Put gun nuts on their own island with beer, guns and bullets.

Would natural selection take its course? ---Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 02:04, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm no gun nut, though I've shot guns at a range before and it's surprisingly fun, so it'd be a question of what beer; not for Coors or Bud Light, but give me one good German ale and one nice harsh IPA and I'd go! The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:12, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
That's just not how natural selection works. I'm not saying it isn't a terrible idea...but you'd have to call the whole phenomena something else. ShabiDOO 02:17, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I actually think that's called "hunting season" in some locales. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 02:31, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Not really. They would all be dead.Jeh2ow Damn son! 03:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Yes, and natural selection needs reproduction.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 08:08, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
And time. Natural selection would require a lot of generations. Hence, it seems a fairly pointless experiment unless you work in reality TV in which case you can claim anything is an "experiment". --Annanoon (talk) 13:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I've seen natural selection be compared to the competition in business, so natural selection does not necessarily need to entail long periods of time to be what it is (although businesses arent really natural).UraniumSpoon (talk) 14:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
It depends on how you are using the words. In business you are really talking about "survival of the fittest". Which means that only the fittest survive (no surprise there). But Natural Selection is really about the "reproduction of the fittest". In other words in Natural Selection the "the fittest" (in some way) both survive and have offspring which carry the appropriate survival traits.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 16:00, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
There would have to be females of the species, and sufficient availability of resources for the gun nuts to survive long enough to evolve (and sufficient of them to survive to be a viable-reproductive community). This would include (theoretical) 'bullet-seed-plants', resources for making gunpowder (would sulphur require an active volcano?) and 'gun repair facilities.' Bows and arrows are probably more viable (human hair bow-strings, and bamboo arrows - which, unlike modern bullets, can be used more than once). Anna Livia (talk) 17:48, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Apart from the "bullet seed plants" just like the real world then: competition for resources, tests of fitness, sexual reproduction. And if you were able to wait out the many generations you would, in fact, see natural selection acting.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:14, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
So… the people who are better able to use firearms would tend to control the available resources, with the accompanying effects on reproductive fitness. What’s the point of this deer-camp-on-an-island scenario, again? 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Put me on a island with bikepaths, a never-ending source of falafel, tomato juice and plenty of other women. We will never procreate, but we'll have a hell of a time. Though I'm not sure that proves anything either way. UninspiringNickname (talk) 19:14, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Friends r nice[edit]

Hey so I’m having a shithouse time rn but my best friend is letting me stay over and get stoned with him. And just. He’s so kind to me. Basically, friends are Cool. Please tell me about your!!!! Beautiful!!! Friends!!!! A S E L A कुरा 09:12, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I dont have many IRL friends as a result of Lockdown, but I've found quite a few nice people on Discord, who basically breadpilled me into Socialism. UraniumSpoon (talk) 09:34, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
All of the clothes I'm wearing now, apart from my underpants, are cast offs given to me by my old Taiwanese friend from university that I visit every Chinese New Year. Spud (talk) 11:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
im living rent free in the centre of london. on the top that they/me mate/flatmate/landlord keeps offering buy me stuff, if i need anything i usually refuse unless its an emergency or such like(got a new coat from asos. less than 30 quid - i try not to take the piss). wont by me drugs though. hes not even trying to fuck me - did that years ago. for free. id even feel guilty about it if not for the fact hes on benefits and has only ever worked 1 job ever and briefly before getting signed off sick for years. neither of us are quite sure why he gets the (two seperate) benefits he gets.enough to have several grand saved up in the bank from it. hes no scamming them either. he fills in the forms, occasionally has an assessment interview and thats what he gets. every murmur in parliament about welfare and reviews and cost cutting, i think they gonna drop him down this time. its coming. he gets too much. then he gets a pay increase.
not a friend, but a complete stranger helped me of tight spot. an underground worker. id thought i had more money on me oyster, now found it spent and some distance from home. (i was in mudchute, needed to get to waterloo) nothing in bank either. contemplating is that walkable? which direction is it? the worker, saw my consternation and gave me his oyster card and he took mine (neither were registeed) just enough on there for one journey.
it was 'only' a couple of quid, but i didnt ask him for anything - i wasnt begging or anything, but holy fuck i was grateful. the distance was eminently walkable, but it would have a loooooong fucking walk. goes a bit beyond customer service when the staff start handing out tickets. i know it werent much, but he didnt have to give me shit. all i asked was which way is the river?
on reflection, i could have called a friend to transfer cash to my account. but still would have preferred the long trek to going on the scrounge. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:22, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I have many friends and 4 girlfriends. Yes friends are cool. AceSimple Maze 21:13, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Potential draft[edit]

I'm giving serious thought to making a draft on the SCP Foundation. Should I do it? Gamers Against Weed (Over 9000 Members Worldwide!) 14:40, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: SigButt.png on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you.
I can’t see how the SCP foundation is relevant to our mission. Christopher (talk) 14:11, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I think it is somewhat relevant because it's had some cultural impact. It's an massive shared-fiction project that now has two movies and a slew of video games. Besides, RW has an article on Slender Man. — Unsigned, by: IRonMan / talk / contribs

Cultural impact does not necessarily translate into missionality at RationalWiki. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 14:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Should then the Slender Man page be deleted? Amarty (talk) 16:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
You have read the mission statement, right? Crank ideas, pseudoscience? But if you think it should be tagged then give it a shot.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 19:57, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm... then should I do an essay or a Fun article on it? Gamers Against Weed (Over 9000 Members Worldwide!) 14:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Even funspace needs a solid gimmick. Maybe the voice of a credulous rube who believes it's all real leaked documents? I dunno if that would actually be funny. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:25, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I just think that at least a draft, even if it won't ever be a full-blown article, would lend to it more than an essay. Gamers Against Weed (Over 9000 Members Worldwide!) (talk) 15:53, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Don't make drafts unless you think they can be full blown articles. Your userspace and the essayspace are more fit for not exactly missional content. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 16:07, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

K... after looking at Circular Reasoning's essay on SJWiki, I think I could make an essay on the SCP Foundation work. I first have to finish my essay on Trump. Gamers Against Weed (Over 9000 Members Worldwide!) (talk) 16:24, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Slightly off topic, but 3008 may be my favorite. I visited an Ikea for the first time after reading it, and can definitely see the horror potential. Those places are massive. Artificius (talk) 00:38, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
@IRonMan Sounds great. And might I add that that essay might not fully represent my current views; see the talkpage discussion for more specific details of which parts of it I do and don't stand by (some have even been retracted), which I think is way more interesting than an essay about an obscure wiki project that hasn't been edited in years and whose views might not be fully agreed with by most social justice activists, especially their "health at every size" woo and their hostility towards not only "allies" who legitimately try to act as some kind of superhero/whiteknight but also those who actually care about social justice issues. --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 18:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y6rbH_NpAVQ— Unsigned, by: / talk

Texas COVID[edit]

Well, Texas (and Mississippi) is ending all COVID restrictions, including our state-wide mask mandate, next Wednesday on March 10th (which is also International Mario Day for anyone who cares). I know some people will hate this, but honestly as long as we keep the vaccinations steady we should be fine (vaccinating the most vulnerable groups first has had a tremendous impact IMO). Aaronmichael5 22:30, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

The mask mandate costs no money, there's no good reason to get rid of that for another month or so until the numbers go down much further... Corinth (chat) 22:42, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
When new variants arise (when not if) in Texas, that most dangerous concern would be a vaccine resistant variant. They are vaccinating so slowly, that the opportunity for the disease to mutate increases significantly.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 17:33, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
@CorruptUser There is one good reason. Pandering. It helps those GOP politicians buy back in with the parts of their base who hate being inconvenienced by the lockdowns and/or buy into conspiracy theories. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:15, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
And pissing off the rest of their base too. While Reps are much more likely than Dems to go maskless, it's still a majority for Reps and probably would've been higher if Dr Cheeto had been seen wearing the mask and promoting it. Bear in mind the link doesn't control for region so it's not a perfect talking point; it's much more important for someone in NYC to wear a mask than someone in rural Montana. Sometimes a leader has to, y'know, lead. Corinth (chat) 18:43, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
That "rest" is a minority in the GOP. To put it bluntly, they don't matter from a strategic standpoint. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 21:19, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
No? The majority of Republicans always wear the masks when out, read the link. I don't get the sense that more anti-Maskers would vote Democrat if forced to wear a mask than pro-maskers would vote Democrat if not forced to wear a mask. Corinth (chat) 21:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
@CorruptUser You did read about the bombs in both party headquarters back in January right? That's what happens if they aren't pandered to. They try to kill you. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 03:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Also, where does it say the majority of Republicans are out and about, and how do you know they aren't doing so due to mask mandates they they'll abadandon the moment they think they can get away with it? ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 03:48, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
"How many of the Democrats are only just barely going along with the mask mandate but are demanding its removal?" Anyone can play that stupid game and you know it, the only data we have is how many people are complying with the mandate. More Dems than Reps, but it's pretty clear that the majority of Reps are still complying with the mandates and that removing the mandates isn't going to win over the other side.
As for how dangerous the Reps are when not pandered to, the Capitol Hill riot is the result of not taking them seriously. The police tend to be more sympathetic to the Right than the Left for reasons, and so there weren't nearly enough officers on the Hill, nor were the officers threatening or tear-gassing the protesters the way they would had the rally been mostly Left-wing weirdos. Had the Capitol Hill had as much security as, say, they did during the BLM rallies and been treated in a similar manner, the traitors protestors would not have charged the Capitol building, and if they did, they would've been turned into hamburger-meat by all the bullets.Corinth (chat) 15:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

"(which is also International Mario Day for anyone who cares)"
March has got it really bad for Mario, isn't it. They could'a made it March 11. Or just not at all, how 'bout that? Mario's already getting his overpriced ROM collection and his somewhat fun NES competitive game and that Game & Watch thing removed at the end of this month. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 21:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

'Random page' question[edit]

If anyone has nothing better to do: if one clicked repeatedly on RW's 'Random Page' (with the current number of pages) how many clicks would be required before all pages had been seen (even if some pages are seen more than once)? Anna Livia (talk) 00:01, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Assuming that you can view one page every two seconds, and assuming you'd never get a repeat page when clicking Random page, it would take about 4.2 hours, given that the wiki stats says that there are 7415 content pages. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:22, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Surprised there are so few content pages given the Wiki's thoroughness when it comes to internet commentators. Smaller world than I thought, I guess. Elli (talk) 03:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Assuming you do get repeat pages at typical rate, expected time is about 40 hours. ikanreed 🐐Bleat at me 15:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
From what I have seen, nobody really likes those types of article here. You would have a better chance of finding discussions on internet commentators off-site. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 16:31, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
But probably most people will find 'an article to edit' after only a few clicks.
Another way of idly spending time - the longest single-page-visit blue-link chain that can be found on RW (given that there are presently 3 orphan pages, and there will be some self-contained cross linking groups). Anna Livia (talk) 16:44, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
If the selection is truly random, there is no finite number of clicks that would guarantee seeing every page. More clicks moves the chance of that asymptotically towards 100% (at least after you’ve clicked enough to actually have a chance of seeing every page), but there’s always the possibility that the next random page won’t be one you haven’t seen before. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:17, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Fundie school poll[edit]

Seems like that the West Coast Baptist College is in first place.

Who wants to take a crack at making the article? --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 15:58, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

I really don't see anything that makes this particular school stand out as worthy of an individual article here. It is really missional to document all these generic fundie schools? —cosmikdebris talk stalk 22:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


I had a flashback to when I was younger earlier today. Mike threatened to have my mom arrested and me thrown into foster care. He was a narcissist, he also raised me. Oxyaena Harass 18:14, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry you had to experience that.Evilatheistheathen (talk) 20:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
That little troll is all talk and no action. Unsurprisingly most of them are, with only a few exceptions concerning the most sociopathic and the most resourceful ones out there. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
@MarioSuperstar77 Not the same Mike I’m assuming... Christopher (talk) 18:58, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Not the same Mike. Oxyaena Harass 19:01, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear that though, having one of your relatives being horrible is such a hardship. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 21:23, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm really sorry this happened to you. Amarty (talk) 00:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
That's horrible Oxy. I'm sorry this happened to you. Really. --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 18:54, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Fight for $15[edit]

This is going to be more of a rant, but this is basically the only forum where I will get any sort of pushback or logical analysis of my feelings: From other liberals I basically hearing three things:

  • The Biden administration isn't serious about raising the minimum since they removed it from the Covid relief bill.
  • The Biden administration isn't serious about raising the minimum wage since they won't overrule the Senate Parliamentarian.
  • The Biden administration is breaking a campaign promise by negotiating the minimum wage with Moderate Dems and amenable GOP.

I find all three of these statements exhausting and filled with frustrating half-truths. Taken together, it seems that those most to the left are whole sale attacking the administration because they would even entertain negotiation. I agree, the minimum wage needs to be increased, and there are serious policies being discussed by Manchin (D-WV) and Romney (R-UT)[1] that would increase the wage more slowly but then tie it inflation. Why is it that several liberals seem willing to torpedo good policy because it doesn't fit exactly with their catchy phrase, and abandon a willing policy partner for some bollocks political purity. More people support a higher minimum wage, but are more supportive of $11 than $15. They can literally deliver Americans a raise, but won't get out of their own way.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 00:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

No matter how high you set the minimum wage, it won't be applied to people working under the table... I'm more in favor of UBI than a minimum wage, but that's me. Corinth (chat) 00:20, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Any leftist should want to abolish capitalism rather than reforming it. Of course I support a minimum wage increase, but the problem is systemic (wage labour). Minimum wage laws are only a patch on a wound, in my opinion. Amarty (talk) 08:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
That's an extremely broad use of "leftist" as though the world is divided into two tribes and those in one tribe "what you call leftists" should all behave in a certain way. Two questions I have for you and try to answer them both. 1. Who are leftists? 2. What would you replace with capitalism (please be very specific).ShabiDOO 09:57, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Shabidoo, I am not sure why the aggression. I just don't believe capitalism allows for a fair and just society. I am not opposed to liberals on most things. Amarty (talk) 03:05, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
You don't seem to realise that saying "all people in this large arbitrary group should agree with me" isn't agressive. It is. Especially when you cannot follow through with your argument. So just tel us Amarty...what would you replace capitalism with after it is dismantled? Do you have an answer? If so I'm quite interested, would love to hear it. Please be specific. ShabiDOO 09:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I would replace it with an egalitarian system where wage labour doesn't exist and we all live and share things that people need, equally. Amarty (talk) 11:24, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
So...communism? ShabiDOO 12:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
If you wanna call that communism, socialism, etc., the label is not important to me. Do you disagree that wage labour is just inherently unfair? Amarty (talk) 15:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I would certainly say there is little logic in the exponential difference in salary scales for many jobs and that someone making 1000 times more than another in a company is insane. But Amarty...you claim that all on the left should look to the dismantling of capitalism but that is a ridiculously dangerous thing to do without a clear plan which I don't think you have. Considering the disasterous failures to implement this system in the past...how would yours be different and why would it work? So what is the plan? Try to be specific with a few actual details. ShabiDOO 15:44, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
They were talking about economical leftists, hence the Socialists, Communists, Anarchists, etc. There are other types of leftists such as Progressives who oppose Conservative Traditionalists, or Radicalism which is the opposite of Reactionarism. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
I think that Social Democracy would normally be regarded as being on the left. I suspect that we are going to see No True Leftist coming up soon.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 15:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
It gets tiresome to elect Democrats on the Lesser of Two Evils ticket and watch them wimp out in office. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱsos. 17:29, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Social democracy is economically center-left, socially Liberal and very much opposed to autocracy. So yes, you are correct, it is part of the left. But I do agree with the assertion that the Democrats in the United States are nothing more than status-quo neocons pretending to support the well-being of the US citizen. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 17:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Being a center-left, Social Democrat from the great continent of Europe I will take your word for it. :-)Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 18:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
“but the problem is systemic (wage labour)” What is the “problem” with wage labor per se, and how would you propose fixing it? Moving people to salaries instead? 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:17, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
No not this guy again. Ignore them, @Amarty. They're a sealion. Oxyaena Harass 18:09, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello @Oxyaena, do you mind explaining what a sealion is? I am not too familiar with the term. Are people in here always this aggressive or did I say something offensive? Amarty (talk) 03:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
@Bob I think it depends on what we define as the "center". Communism is in theory as Left-Wing as you could get, but in practice every Communist country was rebranded Feudalism, with different names for King (Chairman), Noble (Party Member), and Peasant (Worker). In theory, property was owned by all, but when the property's use and the fruits of labor is decided for all by just the senior party members, well, that's basically Nobility with a new name. All historical Communist countries collapsed into the Feudal system regardless of how they started, and it's highly probable that Communism itself is unworkable. So would Communist Russia/China of the 1960s truly be "Left" as they pretend they are, or are they just a far-Right group pretending to be Left-Wing? Horseshoe theory and all...
But anyway, the US is actually "far Left" when compared to the globe when it comes to things like "Welfare", "Pollution Controls", "Worker's Rights", etc. Even when restricted to "rich" countries, Workers Rights and Pollution Controls are an absolute joke in South Africa, Australia, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Mid-East, Japan still hasn't figured out how to integrate women into the workforce (if you think sexual harassment in the US is bad...), and really, the sum-total of European countries that are to the Left of the US are still fewer people than the US itself. Corinth (chat) 19:52, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
@CorruptUser I would certainly agree that in order to define "left" you would need to decide what you were left of, but I'm not sure why you tagged me in your answer. Which point of mine were you responding to?
To respond to your point about the US being "far left" - I would guess that citizens of The Socialist Republic of America would be better placed to answer, though I must admit that it seems to be an unusual description. Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 20:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, let's just ignore all of those EU member states with universal healthcare and right-wing parties which actually acknowledge AGW and all those other things your response completely omits...-Flandres (talk) 20:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
By Canadian or Western European standards the US Democratic party is right of centre and American labour rights and welfare funding is absolutely cruelly low. The total population of Germany, France, Spain, Scandanavia, Italy, Netherland, Belgium, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Portugal is the same as the US. Even some relatively poor Eastern European countries have better funded social programs, pollution controls and labour rights than most US states do. I imagine CorruptUsers is being blatantly ridiculously obscenely sarcastic but I cannot tell. ShabiDOO 20:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Universal Healthcare is as much as social issue as it is an economic one. In practice, yes, the US is far to the right compared to the EU on that one. In terms of other economic, labor, and environmental issues, on paper most EU countries are much, much better, sure, but in practice... The US and EU are all over the place in terms of gender equality in the workplace and politically. The US does lag behind much of Europe in terms of environmental performance, but isn't exactly outside the range for the EU. Affirmative Action and other Minority Rights workplace issues are quite a bit different as well...Corinth (chat) 20:52, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Most Western European countries have strong labour protections protecting workers so they are not easily disposable as they are in most US states where you can be let go with the snap of a finger. You have to be well compensated if laid off and to be fired with cause requires an extremely good reason. Minimum wage is high in most countries compared with the cost of living. Maternity leave is far more generous than the US and most countries have paternity leave. Most countries have generous sick leave with a few countries having unlimited sick leave with generous support from the government if you become chronically ill. Most Western European countries have generous programs to help the disabled work and will even pay for university education while you are unemployed. Unemployment is also generous in most countries and when that runs out is replaced with welfare programs far more generous than the US. Unionisation is generally at a higher rate. Every Western EU countries have strong laws about discrimination and being fired based on race, gender or sexuality (the last one many US states do not have). How on Earth someone could say the US has better labour protections and conditions than Western Europe is beyond me. The sky must also be green. ShabiDOO 21:06, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Those rules don't apply if the person is working under the table though, which seems to be ubiquitous in Greece, Spain and Italy. The US has one of the smallest "shadow" economies, with only Switzerland being smaller. Spain and Italy's shadow economies are 3 times the size proportionately, and Greece nearly 4 times. Again, officially the EU has more protections than the US, but in practice... Corinth (chat) 21:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Corrupt that's an intellectually dishonest trick. I could quote the dismal labour protections of say, Alabama and then discredit the majority of US states that aren't so bad...which would be a ridiculous thing to do. In any case it's a terrible argument. Most people choose to participate in the shadow economy and don't do so out of desperation. I worked in the Spanish shadow economy to avoid a specific kind of tax which was financially heavily burdensome and yet even then, I could still fall back on government social services that aren't offered in the United States if I lost my job including assistance with raising a child and a form of unemployment. I also didn't know a single other person who did work in the shadow market but only people in different classes and industries who enjoyed strong job protection and generous services. Just try, I know it's hard, to admit that your country is behind on many social programs (just as other EU countries are behind in other ways where the US is ahead). Economically, militarily and technologically the US is more advanced in many ways. In terms of Labour rights you are far behind in many other ways and it is utterly baffling to other western countries why you have such cruel policies (and we won't even get into health care, non-existent protections for the disabled, homeless and those suffering other problems in many states). Instead of seeing it as an avenue of "oh yeah well you guys" you should see it as a "the US could catch up and even do better than the EU (which is true) so why don't we"? ShabiDOO 09:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Reading the "other Wiki"Wikipedia, it seems like the terminology of "left" and "right" evolved out of French politics. As the general concept of "left" vs "right" from this lens is between safety nets and equality (left) vs promotion of capitalism (right), it is fairly clear that from this framing, Europe is certainly more "left" than the USA as a general rule, although this of course obscures many details. (Yes, some countries tend to have more rules avoidance. Some don't.) The European and US meaning of "left" and "right" seem similar enough where direct comparison is possible. But, to give an example of where terms can differ, in the US, "liberal" tends to be both a snarl word and a self-identification directed at those seeking social justice, equality, or enhanced safety nets. Where in my experience, in Europe, typically "liberal" is used as a snarl word and a self-identification for laissez-faire capitalists. Who knows how the political neologisms and tribes have evolved in other nations, it is fair to guess that "left" and "right" might not even apply over in Asia, South America, etc. It is fair to note that a lot of places in the world have neither competitive capitalism or safety nets and equality, of course. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 21:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
I would agree that the terms are really pretty vague and subjective. There are in fact multiple political and social spectra and individuals and institutions can be at different (or even contradictory) points on different ones. But the terms do serve as a generalized shorthand for positions.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 08:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I feel the need to draw this back to the idea of whether it is fair to discard out of hand the idea to increase the minimum wage to $11 an hour in an attempt to get $15 an hour, an idea not all Senate Democrats agree with or has a chance in hell getting support from the GOP in general.-RipCityLiberal (talk) 23:58, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Wouldn't even a $15 increase not help that much by the time it was phased in gradually anyway?-Flandres (talk) 00:02, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
As I said before, I think people should look at things systemically and see that all the patchworks are nice and I advocate for them, but the ultimate goal should be to remove capitalism and replace it with a system that makes possibly everyone happy. Amarty (talk) 03:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Shabi, lots of things. First, yes, I'll concede that the EU generally has much better protections for the majority of workers and usually a better welfare system. Second, I take issue with you implying that I'm cherry-picking, if you read the link it's a lot more countries than just those three, and those three alone make up more than 1/4 of the EU population. Corinth (chat) 15:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I clearly referred to Western Europe, not Europe as a whole. I don't think Slovenia's labour protections is at the level of California or Rhode Island. In any case, I could play the same game, for example 12 states in the US don't have any laws on maternity leave (which represents a considerable portion of the US). In other words they can only rely on the US maternity leave laws which are pretty meagre to begin with. Does that mean that because 12 states have no rules that we can dismiss the value of the maternity leave laws in the other countries? Would that make the US's more generous maternity leave than in say, Pakistan...not particularly impressive? That's ridiculous. Of course not just in the aggregate but in the high numbers of people who have maternity leave it is of a much higher level than in Pakistan even though in a few states they don't have extra benefits.
Participation in the shadow economy in Mediterranean countries is by mostly choice. It is more advantageous for them do to so than to work in a contract job with the full protections, and even if you do work in the shadow economy you still have a lot more social programs to fall back on than in many US states with few social programs at all. So yeah, you are doing the equivalent of this system with far more labour protections isn't on the aggregate better because it isn't perfectly and comprehensively implemented. That's silly. I don't think any comparing of systems could live up to such standards. It reminds me of Americans who are fiercely resistant to health care by saying things like: "Yeah Canada has health care for all but...pfff...people with some specific problems end up going to the US for treatment so...yeah...not that great is it"? ShabiDOO 16:16, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

New Evangelion trailer[edit]


Evangelion 3.0+1.0: Thrice Upon a Time. I can't wait. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 13:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Damn right. Now if we could just compel Japan to make late UC Gundam stuff and keep Tomino on his meds long enough for some of the characters to be alive at the end of production. Hell, I'd settle just for an F91 OVA. Iron Mask Carazzo tearing open a mobile suit's cockpit with his bare albeit heavily modified hands was awesome. Artificius (talk) 02:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, F91 was originally supposed to be a full-on series, Sunrise just axed that in favor of Victory. I would watch a full F91 anime...-Flandres (talk) 02:53, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I loved how they continued the visual indication of the villainous factions’ willingness if not outright pathological need to adapt to space and beyond their humanity to one of its more logical conclusions with the Rafflesia: the abandonment of bilateral symmetry. Zeon experimented with cyborgs in Thunderbolt Gundam, most of their mobile suits have only one central eye, many don’t have legs or arms, and they cranked out cyber-newtypes like a psychotic PEZ dispenser. By the time of F91, our main villain is a cybernetic cyber-newtype piloting a radially symmetrical mobile armor (that probably could not land on Earth more than once) with hundreds or thousands of tentacles. Artificius (talk) 03:13, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Who's your favorite troll?[edit]

Because for whatever reason Unclescrooge and TAOB aren't banned, despite not being useful editors in the slightest, so it came to me the thought that maybe some people like them both.

There are actually two trolls I personally found half-funny, the brother of Tim Pool and BG Kumbi. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 19:05, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm dating myself, but I found the crowd that continuously bothered all the new age kooks, charlatans, scam artists, and buffoons in alt.astrology on usenet 20 years ago to be hilarious. One of the surviving artifacts of this drama is found here and is just as entertaining now as it was then. —cosmikdebris talk stalk 22:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Mine is that one BoN who has a personal grudge against me, often vandalizing Fun:Cat and reverting constructive edits without explanation just because they're mine- and then whining about how I'm an autocrat censoring their freeze-peach. --Goatspeed. Stalk meCircularREmail2.gifasoningSteal my ideas 22:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Does Catgrrl count as a troll or just as a bad poster? GeeJayK (talk) 22:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Mine was Logic boy. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 23:21, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
I dunno if I would say I *liked* him, but watching Gutless Raven could be very funny sometimes-his arrogance, his "Look at me! I'm a genius, really!" style of speaking, his utter lack of self-awareness...-Flandres (talk) 23:31, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Bill Maher is a pretty funny troll.UncleKrampus (talk) 00:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
My favorite troll is Cally/Dentara Rast, who won EVE. None of the trolls from this wiki even come close the average EVE troll. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 00:32, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
No love for Ben Shapiro? Corinth (chat) 00:40, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Nope. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 00:54, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I like weev before he became a full-blown Neo-Nazi. Gamers Against Weed (Over 9000 Members Worldwide!) (talk) 01:33, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Was I a good troll back in the day? Jakester499 (talk) 03:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Vol'Jin. Kencolt (talk) 05:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
On this wiki, Catgrrl is probably the one that is the most amusing that we haven't banned yet. Nobs if we count those that have been banned already. He's funnier than Ken imo. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 15:36, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Is porn really that damaging or addictive?[edit]


So I got into it with someone about NoFap and they wouldn't accept it was BS. I got sent the link above but the more that I look at the links it seems more like porn consumption is a symptom of something else and not a cause of anything.Machina (talk) 22:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

You are correct. Excessive porn viewing is a part of a disorder known as "compulsive sexual behavior"; this is considered an impulse control disorderWikipedia, a broad category of obsessive activities that includes excessive internet usage, compulsive shopping, pyromania, and others. Compulsive pornographic viewing can be harmful, in the same way that spending all your waking life playing a MMORPG can be harmful, too. The Mayo Clinic and NCH have better pages on compulsive sexual behavior. Truthaboutporn.org's parent organizationWikipedia is strongly influenced by its Mormon background, so it's going to have a moralizing tilt whose purpose is to demonize porn more than to promote scientific viewpoints. "Your mileage may vary" on whether moral arguments like this help you out of an addiction or not, great if so. But there is a much fuller range of treatment options, and moralizing tit-tats probably won't work for everyone. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 22:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
TL;DR: It is harmless. Like most things, abuse can be dangerous for something that is otherwise harmless. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 22:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
The problem with NoFap is it's also psuedoscience. It doesn't make you less effective or inspired to, ahem, clear the pipes so to speak, since the inspiration is already there. I mean, if you want to clear said pipes, and the only way you allow yourself to do that is into a living breathing human, yeah, NoFap will probably encourage people to harbor in any port during a storm. But NoFap is rooted in PUA lore. I've had live encounters when I've not been into it and stopped, I've had live encounters where the other person has not been into it, and you know what I do? I just stop. It's canon that Ben Shapiro can't get his doctor wife wet, what a terrible way to make children. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:02, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Your question displays a bias. It should be, "Is porn damaging or addictive?". In moderation, no. Taken to extremes, yes. But you could say this about any activity: religion, practicing sport, dieting, internet use, gaming or whatever.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 13:30, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

NoFap is less about discipline, and more about control. If you occasionally release yourself, your less likely to buy into the bollocks that your pleasure should be directly connected to some admirable shite about procreation. Also it denigrates sex work, and women who engage in it. -RipCityLiberal (talk) 17:40, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I thought it was about self-control? I have a friend from college who swears by no-fap, he claims the unresolved tension helps him become more productive in his work. Me, personally, I've had to do some, *ahem*, personal things in regards to masturbation and whatnot and gave up masturbation for days at a time, but that's because I need to train my body to actually be capable of healthy sexual intercourse. Corinth (chat) 17:47, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I need suggestions[edit]

I need to come up with a EAS scenario for a birthday special on my YouTube channel.

Going to 27 years old on the 28th of this month.

I am out of ideas right now. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 23:58, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Uncontrolled proliferation of SCP-871 Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 00:27, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Going with the SCP theme, how about a mass outbreak of SCP-3312? Rockford the Roe (talk) 16:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Do that fog that turns people inside out or the chicken heart that never stops growing. Both of them where from a old horror radio show called Lights Out. Jakester499 (talk) 03:23, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Going with SCP-871. Guess what @DuceMoosolini? I will give a shout out in the video. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 23:41, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

https://youtu.be/b4PAeWoBYaw The video is here. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 00:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Greatest human fears[edit]

I've been thinking the past few days about what I and people in general seem to be truly afraid of, and I decided to express a few of my ideas here. This isn't going to be a well planned or rigorously systematic analysis, since I just now decided to type this and am not 100% sure how to explain it. Anyways, I think our greatest fear is having our humanness compromised. One of the things you learn when studying cultural stories and ideas, like mythology, is that they reflect deeper individual and societal ideas that are sometimes invisible on the surface level. I think having one's humanness compromised is a fear that can be seen at the root of many common anxieties today. In the past, this idea have have manifested as fear of the supernatural invasion of the body by spirits. I'm sure there are countless other examples, but that suffices for now. Today, I think fear-mongering about 'microchips' or 'DNA alterations' (in the COVID vaccine, to select a current example) express the fear of having ones bodily integrity corrupted, and thus having their humanness compromised. I don't really want to spew out a number of examples, even though I'm sure I could think of more (you guys can probably do that thinking on your own). I think this fear stems from a desire for structure and identity, and fear of chaos/disarray. This also may reflect the idea that an individuals humanity is their greatest possession, since at a fundamental level, 'human' is the only thing we are certain we are. I think the fear of that 'humanity' being damaged stems from the fact that our humanness is how we navigate reality, and having our humanness damaged means the very lens by which reality is visible and available to us has been tainted. This isn't as much as I'd like to write, but I think this suffices for now. I hope I get some interesting feedback. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 06:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm a little bit on the old side. Getting close to 70 in fact.
I'm not afraid of death - but the process of dying looks pretty unpleasant! So is the prospect of mental decline and the loss of identity which this might entail. Which seems to fit with your point.Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 14:42, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Interesting. I think fear of aging and death are generally more related to our fear of impermanence (which is something I should've mentioned in the main post, now that I think of it), but I can understand why you'd bring that up. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 19:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
So, to tie both of you guys' posts together, a loss of identity is the underlying fear of humanity.-Flandres (talk) 19:47, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
@Flandres Which is rather tragic, isn't it? Since everything is always in a process of becoming something else, including our bodies and minds. We all will eventually have to stare our impermanence in the face. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 20:02, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I smell new Rationalwiki article[edit]


I know that this is from an EAS YouTube channel. The video talks about this crazy right wing channel that uses fear to indoctrinate young people into following right wing BS. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 22:27, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

COVID pandemic and handicapped people[edit]


Seems that in the UK a disability advocacy group is running a vaccination clinic for mentally disabled people and their families.

I am glad that there are caring people out there who are helping disadvantaged people. Good job UK. Be careful of conspiracy theorists who try to take advantage of those who are vulnerable to manipulation. --Eggs Over EASyPlus (talk) 00:27, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Super straight and Super gay[edit]

I saw a bunch of posts in regard to this phenomenon and wondered if anyone on here can explain it to me?Machina (talk) 02:49, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

So... I'm guessing this refers to people who are 0 or 6 on the Kinsey Scale. Basically, most people if in the right situation, would pursue someone of the same gender, or opposite gender as the case may be. E.g., stick someone in prison for 5 years, see just how "straight" they actually are, 0's (exclusively heterosexual) are actually not as common as people would have you believe. Same with 6's. In the words of my gay college friend who would take home "straight" guys and occasionally a girl, "when drunk enough, a hole is a hole". Corinth (chat) 03:10, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
#superstraight was trendin on twatter yesterday. Apparently it's about cis people who refuse to date trans people. Avida Dollarsher again 08:34, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
So, nothing new? Just the same old transphobes acting like transphobes. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Supposedly, this was in response to someone claiming something to the effect that straight people were by definition attracted to trans[people of opposite sex]. It references CorruptUser's mention of Kinsey 0 being a minority to construct "just heterosexual vis-à-vis biological sex" as a minority sexual identity group. It's intended by people who generally don't buy intersectional identity politics as a legitimate concept as an attack on its ideological underpinnings: either Kinsey 0 people are acknowledged as a sexual minority group and all that that entails (e.g. a flag and a letter in the extended acronym that usually starts with LGB...), or it's acknowledged that not all conceptual identity groups are legitimate, and that groups actually have to justify themselves to others if they want acknowledgement. Looks like Kinsey 6 got added at some point to round it out. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:18, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Going to a funeral this week[edit]

It's a confusing situation. I still have to go. The clothes I wore to my grandpa's funeral last year are still ready.

I really both want to go and don't want to go. But I have to go, there's no question. Normally I'd overshare, but that's unacceptable in this situation. I don't have a good way to offload this. I'm not in a hole or anything, but I really need to not be the toughest guy in the room for a second. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 08:47, 7 March 2021 (UTC)