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from Noisemobile (Talk), group Site wide (urgent) at 09:06, 24 January 2015

RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the blogosphere?

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What is going on?

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[edit] Chart Brut

I've noticed this trend too: something about loosely linking two pieces of visual information with lines just really appeals to peoples' inner conspiracist. So the question is, should we have an article on it? If there's something fundamentally cranklike about that kind of communication, it falls dead center for being on-mission. Ikanreed (talk) 14:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Red lines drawn in MS Paint? I only really noticed it big-time in Gamergate, though it's a thing that was done before that. Mayyyybe, if you think you have material for a good one - David Gerard (talk) 14:53, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Well that's a valid question. Gamergate definitely shoved that variety of crazy to the forefront. Is it an artifact of imageboards and reddit, and how they frame discussions around images? Will it persist in the future? I wish I could do some first-hand research at pro-crazy subreddits to see what I can find, but I can't. Ikanreed (talk) 15:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
If I'm understanding this correctly, it seems like a case of drawing connections where they don't exist. But it would make for a nice extension on the article on that, I'm assuming. If I'm misunderstanding this, then disregard my comment. ^^' LEFTYGREENMARIO 18:53, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe not exclusively "where they don't exist" but stretching tenuous connection from tenuous connection to reach an implausible conclusion, and using a visual medium to try to push people to making those connections "themselves." Ikanreed (talk) 19:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Sounds like a kind variant of it. We have an article about the action of making vacuous connections, no? But yeah, this kind of crap deserves a spot somewhere here. LEFTYGREENMARIO 20:05, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Actually, this has been a common way of mapping out connections on 4chans for as long as I've gone there (~8 years). It is used to show thread progressions, connections between threads, and connections with outside events. There are a couple image macros of things like when the Nebraska Mall Shooter posted about it on 4chan the night before or when they found where a dead woman was buried. Identifying similar parts of different images is also quite common. I'm not sure why this is such a big deal now. AyzmoCheers 04:32, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Gamergate popularised the format, looks like - David Gerard (talk) 10:43, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
"Connecting the dots" is both a popular activity and a popular phrase among conspiracists. This is just a visual manifestation of it.--ZooGuard (talk) 18:42, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not merely about connecting dots, but ignoring closer dots that go against your preconceived position. SophieWilderModerator 18:55, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, yes, I didn't say that they do it well. ;) They just have a fetish for it.--ZooGuard (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Cracked on racism

The point of the Cracked article - as I read it - was not that "racists are still doing their thing" but that "we're all guilty of subconscious racism. In the first section they suggest playing an on-line game which exposes the racism one may not be aware of. The rest of the article is pretty much along the same lines.

This is important because I know that I like to think that I'm a pretty OK sort of guy with a modern, liberal, inclusive attitude but I'm self aware enough to know that I make massive - and invalid - assumptions based on skin tone. Doxys Midnight Runner (talk) 09:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I've taken a lot of psych classes, including several social psych classes. We've covered racism so many times I can't count. It is usually divided into implicit versus explicit. Implicit is that unconscious prejudice that makes you cross the street or lock your car doors. Explicit is when you refuse to hire someone. Explicit racism is higher, statistically, in people who self-identify as conservative. Implicit racism is higher in people who self-identify as liberal.
But you're right, we all have prejudiced views we're probably not aware of. I've also taken a lot of those psych tests. I'm part of the like 1% that associate guns with white men more than black men. However, I apparently do have a tendency towards gender roles (odd since I'm gay?). There are a lot of more disturbing ones like this that involve kids. They are more likely to pick a white doll, call the black doll ugly, etc. Really messed up stuff. Makes me sad sometimes. AyzmoCheers 14:38, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Right, and rather than just political identification causing racism or vice versa, there's an underlying set of personality traits that pushes some people towards both racism and conservatism to a greater degree than typical. These traits can crop up in more left-leaning political parties, but tend to be accompanied by social conservatism, regardless. Ikanreed (talk) 15:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
If there is an underlying personality dimension to racism, and these personality traits are (as every parent knows) mostly fixed at birth, to me this suggests that there is a certain level of racism that will just have to be lived with. Since race is a social construction, it might be possible to swap in some other factor as the division between Us and Them, and to persuade people to make their social divisions along different lines. (I understand the US military does well with this task. Soldiers in my unit belong to my tribe regardless of their skin color.) But since these authoritarian personalities need clearly defined lines of Us vs. Them, even if we persuade them that race is a granfalloon they'll just light on something else to make that the dividing line. - Smerdis of Tlön, for the defense. 04:53, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
It seems to me that swapping has already happened - race was swapped for nationality (a somewhat malleable division) in most discrimination. With racism you'd have blacks go to blacks lobby at an airport, and with nationalism you have foreigners (most aren't even coming into the country, they got a connecting flight) go into a special room where they sit for hours missing their flights, plaintively asking in broken English if the airline would let them fly on the next flight (which may be the next day). Then there's 'they took our jerbs' thing. Basically some % of people want politicians to be good guys who do the right thing because they care for the needs of human beings, and a similar % of people have this infantile fantasy of having an awesome psycho vampire father figure that would love you and care for you at the expense of everyone else. So the politicians who don't give a * about the needs of the voters instead fill this shoe with 'expense of everyone else' part. Dmytry (talk) 05:40, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Be careful, Smerdis, arguments to biology are never quite so clear cut. Having, say, a demonstrable genetic predilection to violence wouldn't justify murder, and given that culture influences authoritarian beliefs to a great deal, just letting it go isn't necessarily a healthy approach. We have to accept that there will be neo-nazis. We don't have to accept neo-nazism. Genetic determinism and faulty conclusions coming from it are going to be a big thing in the next few decades, and I wouldn't want to end up on the side that judges too quickly. And besides, authoritarian follower traits specifically haven't been scientifically demonstrated to be heritable. Ikanreed (talk) 23:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
If we're dealing with a set of personality traits that a relatively constant percentage of the population will have -- however that comes about -- you can either find some kind of role for these people in your society, or you can decide that they have none. - Smerdis of Tlön, for the defense. 06:19, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, that's true, but if you read Altemeyer's full paper, he actually talks about what does predict authoritarian personalities, from what he's studied. How children are raised is a big factor. If the personality type is harmful(and I allege it is), there may be social intervention that reduces its prevalence. Ikanreed (talk) 15:29, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Lesswrong and Harpers

Perhaps someone could explain this whole hing to real humans?? :puz:--Aloysius the Gaul (talk) 22:27, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

[edit] The Sound of Sodomy

This is why classic musicals shouldn't get gritty reboots. --User: PsychoGecko 21:55, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

how does this sound vary from that of ... well anything else ? I dont think I want to know, and would little kids even care ? never mind dinner time ! Hamster (talk) 23:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm gonna just leave these here. Play both simultaneously. WěǎšěǐǒǐďWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 01:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


Should children be exposed to the sounds of sodomy? Well, I've never particularly disliked *band you don't like here*. (Agrajag (talk) 01:58, 8 January 2015 (UTC))
I'd have thought the sound of sodomy would be more like

. - Smerdis of Tlön, A ⇒ ¬A. 23:11, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

As someone from the South, I can confirm it's more like,

-User:PsychoGecko 00:02, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

I am yet find anyone who squeals like a pig, nor in deed made me squeal like pig, and I am most experienced and good at the things I do. Haven't been to the south though. AMassiveGay (talk) 00:14, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Discovery Channel

Read on Facebook: "Hitler documentaries will be moved to ESPN. (Entertainment and Sports Programs and Nazis!) Sports will join Wrestling on SyFy. Science fiction programming will merge with Lifetime which will become the Lyfetyme network. (Mecha-Lucci vs Kristi McNado!!) BBC America will begin mashups of Dr Who and Honey Boo Boo, (yes... Dr Boo Who!) FOXNews will continue to air racists spouting conspiracy theories." - some guy named Michael Styborski. --Gulik (talk) 06:18, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Complimentary Matters

I've read over the compliment agreement BuzzFeed article... and I think I might be missing something here. If someone tells a guy "Dude, you're so handsome/suave/swole/etc." and he responds with "Yeah, I totally am" or "I know, right?", doesn't that also make him appear completely full of himself? Granted, it is to a lesser extent with men than with women because of the whole all-attractive-women-are-self-absorbed stereotype, which is bad, but I'm not sure that automatically leads to "men believe only THEY can hand out the title of 'pretty'".

There's also the matter of how it's worded. (I mean, really. Who responds to a compliment with just 'yes'? "Heard you managed to finish the marathon in record time! Good job out there!" "Yes."). Agreeing with a compliment is one thing, but there's kind of a difference between, say, "I try to be!", "Thanks, I know!" and "Yep." Can someone clarify if I'm missing something? Noir LeSable (talk) 04:39, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's a rather silly social expectation for people to pretend to think less of themselves than they actually do. Also, the idea that someone hitting on you is a "compliment" & something you should thank them for is ridiculous. To me, a guy saying "wow baby, u hot, i bet u look naked" looks more completely full of himself than the girl responding "yeah that's right". €₳$£ΘĪÐWeaselly.jpgMethinks it is a Weasel 08:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I'd say it's more of a matter of humbleness being considered a virtue. I did totally miss that all these examples were pretty much guys just hitting on women though, so you do have an excellent point (Whiiiiich is what I missed. Don't mind me; I don't have much of a romantic life to speak of, so cues like this fly over my head sometimes). Thanks. Noir LeSable (talk) 16:34, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
Some of the girls' answers might look oddly short or overconfident, but not to the point where it'd explain/justify all the guys going "Oh, what I said earlier was totally a lie. I don't think you're awesome/sexy/hot at all." Really, some people... >.> 141.134.75.236 (talk) 16:47, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I think at least some of the responses to accepting the compliments were teasing honestly.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 20:27, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
If you say "aw, thanks" or "thanks, you too" when someone compliments you, then that's fine. Pretty much anything other than that is self-absorbed, I don't care who's saying it. This whole thing seems overblown and frankly pretty silly. People just want something to be outraged over so that they can feel progressive without having to actually do anything. The scale and number of the implications that the author of the Buzzfeed article seems to think that this has is staggering. Though it should be said that this kind of thing is kind of common - people get outraged over some petty, inconsequential bs and say that it represents a much larger problem so that they don't have to feel bad about not normally giving a shit about said much larger problem.(Agrajag (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2015 (UTC))
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