RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the blogosphere?

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What is going on?

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[edit] "DOn't vote for Jill Stein"

I thought this was funny coming from The Guardian and so I put it in here. Should this go to the clogosphere? Evolution and Metamorphosis (talk) 02:47, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be right where it belong already. Voting for Jill Stein is a terrible idea, period. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 02:54, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
How so? Her "questions" on vaccines? Evolution and Metamorphosis (talk) 05:12, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Ehem.--Кřěĵ (ṫåɬк) 05:27, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
@Evolution Yeah, like this person is a sane option for any type of public office. Hah. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:14, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Perfectly fine links, but arguments like the above are why WIGO:Elections was invented, and that's where I've just moved them - David Gerard (talk) 13:49, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Stance on Gawker

I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere, we don't seem to have an article for them. Personally, it's really hard for me to conjure up sympathy for them as an organization. Sure, it's never happy when people who did nothing wrong lose their livelihoods. But I don't think we should be obligated to defend them just because they released a handful of decent articles per year, buried and sandwiched between mountains of trashy tabloid dreck. They basically exemplified the shitty side of new media and made the "clickbait" style of journalism into an art form. To try to put them on the same level as the NYT and Politico is really stupid. I have a feeling that if Pete Thiel had been a liberal and Gawker was right-wing, liberal news outlets would not be writing soliloquies about the state of journalism, but rather writing about the righteousness of and bravery of taking them on. Hentropy (talk) 20:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Honestly, my distaste for the whole matter mostly comes down to the details of the implementation of the law and absolutely nothing about what Gawker did wrong(more than a little) or deserved(they weren't exactly a worthy cause). Laws that allow outrageous judgements to be "locked in" before the appeals process is fully followed strikes me as a violation of the 5th, 8th, and 14th amendments. If I've got an objection, it's to Florida's government and the judge of the case. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:53, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
That's really the main issue I take with the court proceedings as it is right now. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
I know I haven't posted here in a while, but I completely agree. And while there are certainly questions regarding free speech and the US legal system that can provide plenty of discussion material -- particularly Thiel's behavior, precedents with Trump, appeals, and the Legalist startup Thiel's funding (linked in the WIGO pages) -- the Boingboing article posted felt largely disingenuous overall. Like seriously? Trying to garner sympathy for AJ Daulerio, the guy who responded to a young woman wanting a video of her RAPE taken off the site by telling her that the video was staying up and "The best advice I can give you right now: do not make a big deal out of this"? Yeah. Sure. Guy has a right to an attorney, but because he hasn't filed for bankruptcy protections like Denton and Gawker, he's liable for 100% of the judgment, and somehow, I'm out of fucks to give. Blah, blah, blah.
This wasn't "one serious lapse in editorial judgement" that cost the writers their jobs, this was a series of serious lapses that kept them dancing on the edge. If it wasn't Hogan, it would've been Brett Favre. Or David Geithner. Or James Franco. Or Lenore Zann. Or Christina Hendricks. Or Chris Christie. Or one of dozens more people that they've smeared.
Frankly, I think that BoingBoing writer is reading a bit too much Niemöller.ℕoir LeSable (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I think if one wants to make an argument about the legal process or about the influence and a billionaire can wield in said legal process, then there's valid discussions and debates to be had there, but those aren't exactly new issues. But the moment one starts trying to defend the content of Gawker as if they were some important member of the media and the world is better off with them in it... that's when you just start sounding like a paparazzo defending their "craft" as important and necessary. Hentropy (talk) 21:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Technically, the Boing Boing article was a repost of an article written by Trevor Timm who works at the Freedom of the Press Foundation. I, personally, don't want to limit rights based on whether someone isn't important to the media or some such. I agree with Hentropy's statement at the top and I think that it sucks that those writers lose their jobs but a lot of the articles were pretty scummy. I think the legal aspect is a mess but Peter Thiel has every right to fund a lawsuit against Gawker for something they did wrong even; Hogan wouldn't have been able to sue them otherwise.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 22:40, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
My understanding is that gawker.com is shutting down but all the people associated with it are just being shuffled around to other sites/organisations within the group (which includes Jezebel, Gizmodo and Kotaku, which alone are probably enough to keep the Gawker guys writing, especially if they retool at least one of them to fill the void that Gawker left, which I have to assume they will). I find it hard to care too much about a brand name being gotten rid of because, effectively, it became too mired in its own sleaze to continue on. It was only a matter of time before it was taken down by something or other, and given the specifics of this case, I really don't buy the slippery slope "now billionaires will shut down any newspaper they don't like" argument either. The only controversy I'd accept from the whole affair is whether Thiel used his money to somehow undermine the legal process, but funding the best lawyers possible for the case is not undermining the legal process; although it is a bit sleazy (and personally I've always found the concept of "the best" lawyers to be an inherent flaw in the legal system to begin with), it's effectively just using the law really well. But I don't know enough about the legal side of things to know if there's anything dodgy about it; I did think the monetary amount was really high, but then again Gawker was openly defying a court order to remove the video in the first place (I think? I definitely remember that being something I read before the final judgement). X Stickman (talk) 23:38, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Billionaires already have a much easier way of shutting down media they don't like: Buying them. Most of the US media are in the hands of a few conglomerates. That is to me more worrisome than some gossip site shutting down another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:07, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual is political

This article is apparently despised based on the voting. I am curious what the objections are.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 05:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

One can argue that postgenderism is the truth of transgenderism. The universal fluidification of sexual identities unavoidably reaches its apogee in the cancellation of sex as such. Recall Marx’s brilliant analysis of how, in the French revolution of 1848, the conservative-republican Party of Order functioned as the coalition of the two branches of royalism (orleanists and legitimists) in the “anonymous kingdom of the Republic.” The only way to be a royalist in general was to be a republican, and, in the same sense, the only way to be sexualized in general is to be asexual.
Huh? This kind of writing grinds my gears. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 11:23, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, dat b sum postmodern word salad, by the looks of it. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough and I agree that it is a word salad, I just didn't expect it to be so hated.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 23:35, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
I'm genderqueer and I agree with the essay. I use female toilets where possible and male toilets where my workplace has outed me. I'd personally rather have a '+' toilet to use.
Just as how we don't have toilets for coloured people any more, my hope is that one day we shall all prefer to use the '+' toilet and we can get rid of the male and female toilets.
My politics used to be similar to Smerdis's, but I've since become something of a '+' in the political binary too, and modern political systems leave me feeling apathetic and helpless.Vajrapani (talk) 02:35, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
So essentially this article is hated because of its word choice? Evolution and Metamorphosis (talk) 19:47, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Disliked because of its style redolent of twenty year old bullshit,yes. The conclusion, and closing counsel, the position the screed argued for:
The great mistake in dealing with this opposition is to search for a proper measure between two extremes. What one should do instead is to bring out what both extremes share: the fantasy of a peaceful world where the agonistic tension of sexual difference disappears, either in a clear and stable hierarchic distinction of sexes or in the happy fluidity of a desexualized universe. And it is not difficult to discern in this fantasy of a peaceful world the fantasy of a society without social antagonisms, in short, without class struggle.
OK. Tell me how to start. And explain how 'class struggle' appears out of the blue. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 22:32, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Because the Homosexual agenda is full of sexual Bolshevism and cultural Marxism, duh. Everything the left says or does is ultimately shilling for class struggle. Didn't you know that? (Only some of this text is humorous hyperbole) another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 22:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The world could use a bit more class struggle right now. But if you hope to reach the classes that are struggling, you need to talk in a language they understand. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 12:20, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

This Reddit[1] has some good summaries of the arguments that Zizek makes.Vajrapani (talk) 04:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. It does indeed help clarify some of the word salad that is Zizek's "style". I downvoted the article not because I am opposed to this or that notion of gender or identity, but because it's the same old deliberately obfuscatory crap that postmodernists always write. Jagulard (talk) 04:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] The "black wall street" article.

So this is more a complaint to the author than to the person who posted the headline to the wigo, but "Black Wall Street" was the actual conventional term for the commodities exchange in Durham, NC, during segregation. Richmond, while having a number of black owned banks, was not called "black wall street" with any regularity. Just a note to anyone who read the article and might get confused in the future. Only pointing this out because I'm sitting 2 blocks from the buildings in question right now. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 13:59, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok, you live near it now, but were you there?? Jagulard (talk) 20:32, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Was anybody? another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:58, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Of course not, and they could never tell you if they were. Jagulard (talk) 02:15, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
On a more serious note, I have always heard Greenwood, Tulsa referred to as "Black Wall Street".--Owlman (talk) (mail) 02:28, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Interestingly, all three are listed under that title on the other wiki. Jagulard (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Fake Hitler quotes

This deserves note in our articles on Atheism, Hitler, Nazism and Richard Carrier. For starters. Yay, Uppsala University[wp]! I could go and knock on the door of the professor Dr. Carrier worked with, for the record. :P Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:40, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] More detailed captions

What happened to them? I don't want to have to click on the link to know what the article is about. If an article says "aiding and abetting Apartheid", I presume it is a look back at the 1980s and before, maybe on the basis of some newly declassified files. "The two Chomskys" is also rather vague, as is "Money for nothing" or "Britain's secret wars". Please create WIGOs that give a bit more detail and don't revert attempts to provide detail. Thanks. I am not the Ombud's man 20:27, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

It's a little eye-rolling, that the headline used by the article itself is just so completely uninformative. Like it's not really worth edit warring over, but come on. It's silly to feel the need to clarify that particular point. The article is also about the US, and Obama, and our foreign policy. It's like a trigger-warning for Israel-Palestine politics. You can have one if you really think it matters, but come on. Really? ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I think this is a general problem of WIGO. It should in my humble opinion give readers enough background (both of the content and the bent of the writer/publisher) to avoid clicking on something only to vomit after the first three lines. Imagine clicking on shiny happy people and getting what you see behind this link. Or clicking on kabuki and getting what you see behind this link. The vast majority of people vote without reading the links (just do the math on the number of votes and the amount of time people have), so they vote based on the caption. At the very least, those captions should not be vague or misleading. In my opinion the ideal WIGO says what happens or what opinion is expressed and links half to support the point half to provide further reading for those interested. I am not the Ombud's man 21:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I probably would not have put it in all caps and bold, but I agree with the sentiment. I am not the Ombud's man 18:51, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Sing it, sister! We're in the fight against clickbait together. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Well this was not the argument earlier and doesn't justify labeling links but I will personally try to better explain my links.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 15:57, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't worry about the descriptions. You can rest well assured that every item has been reviewed by own arbiter of objectivity. Jagulard (talk) 05:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

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