RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the blogosphere?

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What is going on?

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[edit] Sexual is political

This article is apparently despised based on the voting. I am curious what the objections are.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 05:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

One can argue that postgenderism is the truth of transgenderism. The universal fluidification of sexual identities unavoidably reaches its apogee in the cancellation of sex as such. Recall Marx’s brilliant analysis of how, in the French revolution of 1848, the conservative-republican Party of Order functioned as the coalition of the two branches of royalism (orleanists and legitimists) in the “anonymous kingdom of the Republic.” The only way to be a royalist in general was to be a republican, and, in the same sense, the only way to be sexualized in general is to be asexual.
Huh? This kind of writing grinds my gears. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 11:23, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, dat b sum postmodern word salad, by the looks of it. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough and I agree that it is a word salad, I just didn't expect it to be so hated.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 23:35, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
I'm genderqueer and I agree with the essay. I use female toilets where possible and male toilets where my workplace has outed me. I'd personally rather have a '+' toilet to use.
Just as how we don't have toilets for coloured people any more, my hope is that one day we shall all prefer to use the '+' toilet and we can get rid of the male and female toilets.
My politics used to be similar to Smerdis's, but I've since become something of a '+' in the political binary too, and modern political systems leave me feeling apathetic and helpless.Vajrapani (talk) 02:35, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
So essentially this article is hated because of its word choice? Evolution and Metamorphosis (talk) 19:47, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Disliked because of its style redolent of twenty year old bullshit,yes. The conclusion, and closing counsel, the position the screed argued for:
The great mistake in dealing with this opposition is to search for a proper measure between two extremes. What one should do instead is to bring out what both extremes share: the fantasy of a peaceful world where the agonistic tension of sexual difference disappears, either in a clear and stable hierarchic distinction of sexes or in the happy fluidity of a desexualized universe. And it is not difficult to discern in this fantasy of a peaceful world the fantasy of a society without social antagonisms, in short, without class struggle.
OK. Tell me how to start. And explain how 'class struggle' appears out of the blue. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 22:32, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
Because the Homosexual agenda is full of sexual Bolshevism and cultural Marxism, duh. Everything the left says or does is ultimately shilling for class struggle. Didn't you know that? (Only some of this text is humorous hyperbole) another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 22:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The world could use a bit more class struggle right now. But if you hope to reach the classes that are struggling, you need to talk in a language they understand. Smerdis of Tlön, LOAD "*", 8, 1. 12:20, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

This Reddit[1] has some good summaries of the arguments that Zizek makes.Vajrapani (talk) 04:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. It does indeed help clarify some of the word salad that is Zizek's "style". I downvoted the article not because I am opposed to this or that notion of gender or identity, but because it's the same old deliberately obfuscatory crap that postmodernists always write. Jagulard (talk) 04:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] The "black wall street" article.

So this is more a complaint to the author than to the person who posted the headline to the wigo, but "Black Wall Street" was the actual conventional term for the commodities exchange in Durham, NC, during segregation. Richmond, while having a number of black owned banks, was not called "black wall street" with any regularity. Just a note to anyone who read the article and might get confused in the future. Only pointing this out because I'm sitting 2 blocks from the buildings in question right now. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 13:59, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok, you live near it now, but were you there?? Jagulard (talk) 20:32, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Was anybody? another Jewish conspiracy by (((Laurogeita Hamabost))) (talk) 20:58, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Of course not, and they could never tell you if they were. Jagulard (talk) 02:15, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
On a more serious note, I have always heard Greenwood, Tulsa referred to as "Black Wall Street".--Owlman (talk) (mail) 02:28, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Interestingly, all three are listed under that title on the other wiki. Jagulard (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Fake Hitler quotes

This deserves note in our articles on Atheism, Hitler, Nazism and Richard Carrier. For starters. Yay, Uppsala University[wp]! I could go and knock on the door of the professor Dr. Carrier worked with, for the record. :P Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:40, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] More detailed captions

What happened to them? I don't want to have to click on the link to know what the article is about. If an article says "aiding and abetting Apartheid", I presume it is a look back at the 1980s and before, maybe on the basis of some newly declassified files. "The two Chomskys" is also rather vague, as is "Money for nothing" or "Britain's secret wars". Please create WIGOs that give a bit more detail and don't revert attempts to provide detail. Thanks. I am not the Ombud's man 20:27, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

It's a little eye-rolling, that the headline used by the article itself is just so completely uninformative. Like it's not really worth edit warring over, but come on. It's silly to feel the need to clarify that particular point. The article is also about the US, and Obama, and our foreign policy. It's like a trigger-warning for Israel-Palestine politics. You can have one if you really think it matters, but come on. Really? ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 20:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I think this is a general problem of WIGO. It should in my humble opinion give readers enough background (both of the content and the bent of the writer/publisher) to avoid clicking on something only to vomit after the first three lines. Imagine clicking on shiny happy people and getting what you see behind this link. Or clicking on kabuki and getting what you see behind this link. The vast majority of people vote without reading the links (just do the math on the number of votes and the amount of time people have), so they vote based on the caption. At the very least, those captions should not be vague or misleading. In my opinion the ideal WIGO says what happens or what opinion is expressed and links half to support the point half to provide further reading for those interested. I am not the Ombud's man 21:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I probably would not have put it in all caps and bold, but I agree with the sentiment. I am not the Ombud's man 18:51, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Sing it, sister! We're in the fight against clickbait together. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Well this was not the argument earlier and doesn't justify labeling links but I will personally try to better explain my links.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 15:57, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't worry about the descriptions. You can rest well assured that every item has been reviewed by own arbiter of objectivity. Jagulard (talk) 05:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Make goat love, not edit war

Methinks it might be time to vote on the thing we've been edit warring over, with the naming of sources?

  • Pro: It's mildly convenient.
  • Con: The effect can already be achieved by mousing over the link.

All I ask is that we either write out the sorce for all WIGO posts, or for none. Otherwise it'll just be a source of eternal cockfighting. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 00:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Yay to typing out the name of the source

  1. Jagulard (talk) 04:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Nay to typing out the name of the source

  1. In the long run it'll lead to elitism & a blacklist.nobsGary Johnson for Rehab! 01:09, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
  2. Needless bureacracy that will create an echo chamber.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 05:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Goat love

  • First question I have is what the problem with sourcing all of them is. Lately, the blog stuff has seemed shady as hell. I mean, the Intercept? That's Greenwald's personal masturbation organ, and while they sometimes have stuff of interest, they're mostly to be ignored. Alternet? Consistently shit. American Spectator? Consistently shit. I just want to know whether I should bother before clicking the link. Sources help that immensely. --Castaigne2 (talk) 00:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    AlterNet is an aggregate so they can be hit or miss so I have no problem labelling them. I agree that The Intercept is Greenwald's echo chamber but I don't think that justifies labeling them. Lastly, who link the American Spectator?--Owlman (talk) (mail) 00:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    Yet you've labeled others, and reverted when we've labeled Alternet. All of which begs the question again, what's your criterion for labeling? Jagulard (talk) 04:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    Firstly, you were the only one to label AlterNet. Secondly, my criterion, as if it matters, is whether the community views a source as unobjective.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 04:42, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    Where did the community decide this? Pease point me to the list of "unobjective" sources. Jagulard (talk) 04:54, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    Boy, your concern trolling is nonstop, isn't it. Clearly, there is no list so it is up to the individual user to decide. If a source catches a lot of flak then it is probably for the best to not use it but there isn't any way to stop it. Regardless, no single user can mark another user's link or remove it for being "unobjective" unless that source is clearly wrong or pure crankey.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 05:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Given that one can determine the source of an entry by floating the mouse over them, I'd say putting in place a requirement for calling out sources to be creating bureaucracy where it's not needed. However, I completely agree with David that contributions should be summarized. Just putting headlines in a big link is lazy; why not add some context, like a link to something relevant on the site, or even some snark? —Cosmikdebris (talk) 00:54, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    The link doesn't show up on mobile devices. Jagulard (talk) 04:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    You just have to press and hold the link for it to show you.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 05:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    Another important point David (among others) have raised, as I understood it, is that we ought to snark and give context (among other things) in order to reduce the Clickbait-level of certain headlines when given "as-is". Reverend Black Percy (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    I think this is strongly supportive of labeling as well. In my opinion, labeling the source of an entry a) allows me to decide whether the article is worth reading according to my own opinion of the source, and b) prevents the WIGOs from being too "clickbait-y": I don't want to give ad revenue, no matter how small, to a site I find objectionable. Jagulard (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
  • I'd settle for people providing meaningful and informative descriptions/appraisals, rather than stuff I can get from mouseover/glancing. Or people voting on what they consider to be shit. Annquin (talk) 08:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Jerboa lovings

  • If we label like this, then... well, WE NEED SOME CSS MAGIC UP IN THIS Narky SawtoothNarky.png (Nyar~) 04:49, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
    What would really be impressive is not CSS, but some JS magic that would add the label automagically. Jagulard (talk) 05:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
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