RationalWiki talk:What is going on in the clogosphere?

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[edit] Daily Mail Racism story for the clogosphere or not quite blatantly racist??


Just wondering if anyone things this should go in the clogosphere. The story is based on a pilot study which is anecdotal evidence (link in the article) looks like it's meant to be used to start a debate rather than be a definative report however the Mail has turned it into a bit of a racist tirade. The captilisation of Muslims is particularly amusing.

Sorry if someone has already spotted this (first time contributor).


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416586/Gangs-Asian-men-grooming-MUSLIM-girls-plying-drink-drugs.html — Unsigned, by: Newtsboots / talk / contribs

[edit] Poooof, it's gone.... it's back:


And the text of the piece for when it vanished from Google's cache:

Different Types of Monetary Grants That Can Lend Assistance To The Small Sized Commercial Organizations January 22, 2014 Writer Marie No comments Print Friendly

If you are a small business owner comprising of 1-100 employees, you must be interested in availing the benefits of government programs/financial grants that can assist you in the right way. The benefit that remains associated with the grants/government programs is that there is no need to pay anyone back. However, in this respect, it needs to be understood that, in order, to be able to benefit from similar types of loans you are supposed to put in some effort.

   Uncle Sam Grant

The first and foremost grant that you can expect to benefit from is the Uncle Sam. The same proves to be the right alternative that you help you in being able to expand/start a business venture. As a business owner, you will be encouraged in learning that the specific programs are suited for all entrepreneurs and businesses. A few of the examples include; green product development and health-related research.

   Amber Grants

As a business owner, you are supposed to understand that a small amount of cash can hold a significant impact. It has been since the year 1998 that the Amber Foundation Grants have been extending their support to all concerned women entrepreneurs. The amount of the grant that you can expect to benefit from is within the range of 500-1000 dollars.

   Love A Local Business

This type of grant has been made available to approximately 1.1 million dollars. These types of nominations are considered to be the ultimate choice for all concerned vendors, customers and employees. This is the best weapon that can provide rewarding benefits to your business.

   Opportunity Fund

The different types of financial assistance that you can expect to enjoy including; micro savings, microloans and commercial real estate financing. It is important to search around the financial grants that can benefit you.

   Local And State Agencies

As a small business owner, you will be able to benefit from the financial options such as the low-interest loans. If you are unaware as where to start from, it is important to contact along with the economic development agency of the state.


The underlying purpose behind enacting the HIRE act is to provide a break to all concerned employers interest in hiring employees working on a part-time basis. As an employer, you will be able to make a claim of an additional amount of 1,000 dollars credit.

   State Workforce Training Funds

The reason behind making available similar types of grants is to lend assistance to all small business owners looking to impart training to all concerned unskilled workers. These types of grants also assist workers to be able to find jobs within the region.

   Work Opportunity Tax Credit

If you avail the benefit of the same, it will help in reducing income-tax liability on the part of every concerned employer. This holds valid if you are hiring former prisoners and veterans, as well.

   Innovator of The Year Award

The package you can expect to associate along with the same is approximately a package worth of 100,000 dollars. The same includes a cash prize of 50,000 dollars, as well.

   I Lab

The grants are made available at the federal level. In a bid to lend assistance, there are different types of state-based funds that remain available to all concerned fledging entrepreneurs. There can be little doubt that the financial grants can benefit you in the ultimate manner.

— Unsigned, by: / talk / contribs

[edit] Reason's article on school shootings

What exactly makes this a clog? It should be noted that crime often gets hyped and sensationalized in the media. The article was pointing out the flaws in what exactly constitutes a "school shooting". We need perspective whenever something like this happens and not scare-mongering. Otherwise fear is going to lead to stupid policy like armed guards in schools. And every time something like this happens in the United States, gun sales soar. So we need perspective. Nchriste (talk) 20:43, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

A BoN deleted part of my entry. Yes, what Reason says is factual, but it's glossing over the larger problem that the US is a goddamn disaster when it comes to gun violence. In fact, I agree with you about scare-mongering. under "Funnily enough..." I complain about this exact problem. Crises should not be used as an excuse to curtail rights, but it's too bad the people saying this already fell down on the job for all those other amendments... too bad. Too little, too late. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 21:24, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
Has any other industrialized democracy had a similar ratio of incidents involving firearms being discharged in educational institutions over the past few years? Reason is arguing that your kid is way more likely to die out of school than in school. That may be true, but is your kid more likely to die in an American classroom than in a Dutch or Canadian one? Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 21:32, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
It glosses over gun-control but it doesn't argue that "They're scaring us to take away our second amendment rights" either. Instead of regarding this as a clog, this is actually more like a stopped-clock moment for the folks at Reason Magazine. My take away from the article is that this is a problem not of school shootings specifically but that America is just a more violent country than the rest of the first world (Although he didn't talk about other countries). The author, Jesse Walker, is spot on on this issue. He also has a history of detailing paranoia in American body politic in his book "The United States of Paranoia" which discusses these issues and builds on the work of people like Richard Hofstadter, Chip Berlet and others. These are all take-downs of paranoid thinking and a call to skepticism and rational thought. This is hardly a clog, it's the opposite. Nchriste (talk) 01:05, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't know, you could move it to WIGO:Blogs and someone would argue the reverse: that glossing over gun-control makes it a clog, stopped clock moment be damned. I've put The United States of Paranoia on my reading list. I doubt my local library would have it in circulation, so I'll have to get it through my kindle. --TheLateGatsby (The end of the dock ) 14:46, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

[edit] In fairness to the Dark Enlightenment article

The quoted writer did say that "Sith Lord" was a media buzzphrase not used by neoreactionaries, and some dupe could very well have called himself Legolas because he thought a high fantasy name would be badass somehow. There are other holes in the story, though. For one, "Dark Enlightenment" is a sensationalist umbrella name Nick Land gave to the broad neoreactionary movement, not an actual secret order of any sort. At best, the storyteller stumbled across a scam order claiming neoreactionary ties. On another note, Mark Shea did make a "stopped clock" argument which can be used against actual neoreactionaries:

"The thing about nascent movements like this is that it’s hard to know when to pay attention and when to ignore them. If you ignore them they can grow in the dark, like mushrooms on dung. If you make too much fuss, you can attract idiots–particularly extremist idiots–who automatically assume that anything normal people find objectionable must be awesome, radical, and 'not PC' and therefore good. But of course, cannibalism is not PC either and embracing something simply and solely on the basis that it is a 'reaction' is one of the stupidest things humans can do. You can’t build a life on protest and reaction. You have to be for something, not merely against something. And at the end of the day, the only real core of DE 'thought' is to be for racialism."

Of course, there are probably some non-racial neoreactionaries out there who are just monarchists etc. and would regard this as a strawman, but I digress. The One They Call Mars (talk) 15:25, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes dear, of course it wasn't a Poe that caught the guy - David Gerard (talk) 22:51, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Cracked "Check your privilege article"

Ive read and reread the article a few times and there is no claim that the phrase "check your privilege" is racist, only that it is rather presumptuous and tends to cause and exacerbate more problems than it solves. One might disagree with that but it hardly seems worthy of being declared an example of egregious internet douchebaggery/general evil. Maybe I can get a clarification as to how the article is objectively terrible and reprehensible, because as it stands I think the entry should be removed. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 08:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: Actually I just found it does contain the claim "In a very odd way, "check your privilege" is kind of racist, because it assumes someone's background dictates their opinions", though again this seems hardly sufficient to damn the article, the author, and cracked itself as some bastion of bigotry. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 08:18, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
I thought that was sort of a good point myself. Racist isn't the right word there, but it is making presumption based on background so it's not exactly a different ball park. And generally speaking being as the rest of the article makes a long series of good points, I'd also be up for punting it out of the clogs page.
(And I may very well only be saying this because I've had it up to HERE with self righteous dickheads on Tumblr throwing the phrase around every time someone says anything at all that I'm all ready to throw it into the same category of 'technically you might have a point but realistically you don't' that "Were you there?" is in) --Certified Sick Bastard 13:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Racism is one kind of prejudice. Unless I'm mistaken, "race prejudice" was in use before "racism" became the common term. Just this one time, I will bring an argument ad dictionariam and say that the root connotation, premature judgement, fits this case pretty well. Until the particulars of someone else's situation are known, there is skimpy basis for accusing them of wallowing in privilege. Such an accusation comes from prejudice. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 15:21, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
So we can take out all reference to white privilege from the article on privilege? It notes in there that white people have certain privilege, like not being racially profiled. Can probably drop the part about any privilege of men or women, too, which seems to leave an article about straight or cisgender privilege. And is it really a good idea to dislike a concept just because you don't like seeing it on Tumblr? If so, we better hope someone starts using Tumblr to make reason and atheism less scorned by the Christians.
At the end of the day, the article seems to be saying that those with privilege shouldn't have to try and think of how they are privileged, that it's the responsibility of the less privileged to explain themselves to the rich white man. "If you're a black transsexual woman arguing with some white cisgendered male and you truly want to explain how his "privilege" prevents him from understanding your point, your struggle, or simply you, then spouting "check your privilege" isn't going to help. "Check your privilege" fosters no mutual understanding. Why not talk about you? Explain you? Share you?"
To bring it closer to home, Christians shouldn't educate themselves about atheism before getting into any sort of debate with atheists. If they've got some misconception, the atheist is the one who should be explaining everything about it to them, and noting that most Christians don't understand atheists because they are Christian is apparently now prejudice. I'm not saying that someone shouldn't point things out to those with privilege, but they seem to be suggesting that the privileged person shouldn't have put any effort into it themselves.
It reminds me of the Bria Crutchfield thing, where someone asked a black atheist what black people were doing to fight black on black crime, out of nowhere and unrelated to the speaker's presentation. Then when someone else later asked about what atheists could do to reach out to minority groups, Bria Crutchfield gave an emotional tongue lashing that pointed out why black atheists felt unwelcome with examples including the earlier question. And then afterward, some in the atheist community characterized her as an angry black woman who just went off on someone whose question wasn't meant to be racist. This article says the person who asked the question shouldn't have put any thought beforehand into why asking a question like that of a black atheist just because she was black would be a problem.
Overall, though, it appears that the person who asked what the atheist community could do to be more welcoming(the one who seemed to consider their own privilege) got a very satisfying answer, even if other people were unsatisfied with the woman from earlier being used as an example.
So that's what I took away from it. User:PsychoGecko 16:18, 24 June 2014
The thing is, no one cares what you think they should do. That is why all your points are moot. You really need to look at this with some more nuance. When people hear "check your privilege", they do not go "ok", what they do is they pick up some memes and stereotypes and go on to live them, probably altering any parts that reflect badly on themselves. --Someon (talk) 17:00, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Re: Point addressed to me. Probably not. I do have other reasons, but I couldn't be arsed so was noting the conflict of interest just for posterity. --Certified Sick Bastard 20:23, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Ok, i will try to address each of your paragraphs in the textwall....with another textwall
1) No one suggested the concept of privilege be dropped or dismissed, nor the concept of race privilege, either here or in the article. In fact the article acknowledged the author's recognition of privilege quite a few times I seem to remember. It merely took issue with the use of "check your privilege" as a brainless buzzword used willy-nilly to shout down other viewpoints. The fact it has become a cliche of Tumblr SJW to do so just further evidences how important it is to not misuse it further lest the concept of privilege be further pilloried.
2) How exactly is suggesting more communication between those in privileged groups and unprivileged groups a bad thing? If someone is so certain in themselves and their convictions as to throw around "check your privilege", why is it unreasonable to want some elaboration?
3) Setting aside the fact that the article did not refer specifically to debates, formal or informal, between groups, I doubt any atheist here would look kindly on an atheist screaming CHECK YOUR PRIVILAGE!!! at a Christian after the latter voiced an innocent misunderstanding (as in a misunderstanding held not due to bigotry but simple ignorance) before flouncing away demanding said Christian "educate him/herself" instead of trying to explain him/herself. If someone wants to bring any concept into a debate, they cant just drop it on the table and presume to auto-win the argument.
4) While I am not familiar with the incident you cite, I think "Nutpicking" (i.e. taking lone individuals who voice horrible opinions or do horrible things in the name of the cause, and declaring them to be representative of the movement they claim allegiance to as a whole) as what seems to be the case in that incident is also a mistake that needs to be avoided. Characterising the whole atheist movement based on one asshole's racism seems overly harsh at best and disingenuous at worst. A common comparison might be the trans exclusionary radfem branch of feminism (which to their credit, even SJW despise). There are a lot of them who are very vocal, but to judge the ENTIRE feminist movement based on them, or even radical feminism in general is unfair and intellectually dishonest.
In conclusion I think the author of the article made it quite clear he acknowledges the concept of privilege and is aware of it's adverse effects. The fact his opinion differs from yours on how it should be used in discussions does not make him worthy of the vitriolic entry you gave him. He is not some "rich white guy" presuming to give orders to the unprivilaged masses, he is just some guy voicing an opinion that it should be used more carefully and more thoughtfully, and that any discussion of privilage should not be ham-stringed by it's misuse. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 17:14, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
On "#4 - nutpicking) The trouble I see here is that when you talk with individuals in a minority, they almost all express situations where they become the "token Black Voice for All Black Women" in conversations. Or that they can never be "just an atheist" because there are a whole host of issues that exist for women atheists that do not exist for atheists, and for black women atheists that do not exist for other, etc. AND, this reduction to parts (the black in black women atheist) that is read as racism, happens constantly for minorities. That is, because privilege is such a status quo of most people, they often are not even aware of the effect of their comments or actions. ("I have never sexually harrassed a woman!" "i respect people for their ideas, not their color!") There is a video running the net right now, of a black professor who says "people complement me by saying 'You are so articulate' not realizing or admitting to themselves they are adding the unspoken 'for a black person'". It's not a complement - it's an unseen form of privilege leading to a subtle racist comment. So while you may think someone in a minority group is "nutpicking' (looking for the one guy who says something bad) they may be trying to tell you this is the norm.One tin soldier (talk) 18:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
That is indeed true, and I didnt want to assume anything about said incident so take my reference to nutpicking as just a general thing that is applicable in pretty much any circumstance. However in this case I believe a key factor in why her comments caused such offence was due to the fact that the vast majority of the Atheist community wholeheartedly and sincerely rejects and dislikes racism, and thus react negatively when someone seems to tar them with the same brush as lone assholes (or lots of lone assholes in this case) which somewhat blinds them to any point the person in question was making.
As for the "credit to your race" part of your comment, I would think its less about overt privilege (i.e though this is still a key factor, and can be seen in other circumstances like someone from a lower economic class being complimented as "unusually articulate/talented/whatever" with the implicit follower being "for one of you people") and more like a concious/unconscious acceptance of racist stereotypes which would make them think being both black and articulate is worthy of note and condescending compliment. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 20:23, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
1. Considering he goes from "So you pointed out someone was rich and white, so what?" to "Even transsexual Puerto Ricans are different from one another" in a few sentences, it suggests that he doesn't see that as a matter of privilege, but like differences on par with food preference or hair color.
2. You're the one who called this a textwall, which I've seen used primarily as a derogatory term or as something for someone to be ashamed of. Maybe that explains how attempting to communicate more and explain things is seen as a negative? And it maybe doesn't help your case to put into my mouth the idea that I'm just butthurt because I don't like the article, rather than acknowledge the reasons in my "textwall" here. It suggests that I could have graphs and charts, but your own bias would prevent you from acknowledging the good reasons I feel the way I do.
3. So every time someone throws out the same old "I hear you atheists worship evolution, but if people evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" line, it's always up to me, no matter what, to explain not only how wrong they are but how evolution isn't some dogma of atheism? I should treat that person as being on the same intellectual level as someone who has actually gone out and done their homework? There's a reason why some conversations/debates are considered a waste of time.
4. Is it nutpicking when it's a subtle, invisible bias that wide swaths of people hold? It's not like that's the one problem black atheists ever had being accepted into the atheist community. To quote a little site named RationalWiki: "Privilege is the benefits and advantages held by a group in power, or in a majority, that arise because of the oppression and suppression of minority groups. Often these benefits and advantages are not codified as legal rights and arise as secondary qualities to suppression (see the examples below). This causes them to become difficult to spot, and remain unseen or unrecognised. This aspect in particular is known as privilege blindness. "
And finally, just because it amused me: "A common comparison might be the trans exclusionary radfem branch of feminism (which to their credit, even SJW despise)" Your defense of an article about how you shouldn't paint everyone in a group with a wide brush involves claiming there's a group called Social Justice Warriors identified by their use of this phrase, which you're biased against, but luckily they're a credit to their group (good thing they aren't a race) if they despise a bad group. User:PsychoGecko 00:33 25 June 2014, (UTC)
Oookay. Lets break this down further
1) He pointed out that screaming "check your privilage" adds nothing to an arguement as it does nothing to disprove or refute the "privilaged" person's arguement. For the third time, that is not denying privilage.
2) If you had cared to look a few centimetres to the right of where i called your comment a textwall, you would have found me calling my own response a textwall. Neither did I dismiss your points out of hand as "butthurt" (which im sure is hompphobic btw, nice going there) which is why I took the time to make the self admitted textwall response in as polite a manner as I could.
3) Yes. I think in every case an atheist/someone who accepts basic science should not just scream "YOUR WRONG AND STUPID" and then run off declaring victory, since if they have the moral and intellectual certitude to make such a judgement on their own "rightness" they should show their reasons and evidence for it. To pull a "check ur privilage" makes all atheists look fucking stupid and immature by association. Misconceptions are not cleared up by obnoxious posturing, and for what seems like the fiftieth time, someone on Cracked suggesting a better exchange of views and ideas to better enable the concept of privilege to be understood is not Clogworthy, and in my opinion not even whineworthy.
4) As I said before, and elaborated to in the comment exchange later, i do not know about the case in question. However unless there is some actual evidence that "vast swaths" of the atheist/sceptic community hold racist views, tarring them all with one brush because of individual assholes seems a lot like nutpicking, which I then criticised as a general principle rather than as referring to her in particular. Also, how the hell does this have anything to do with the article in question?
And finally it is common knowledge, near enough cliche that SJW are ostensibly protective of transgender rights, in much the same way it is common knowledge that TERF radfems hate transgendered people. The fact you seem to think that me pointing this put is comparable to (or infact somehow is) being racist speaks volumes about your understanding of it. And since I seem to have plenty of agreement from others in this thread im gonna go ahead and delete the clog entry. Judge HoldenThe Judge Smiles 09:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Don't know who, but it looks like someone brought it back. Not like its score got any better when they did. Just pointing it out because even if I think you're wrong, blah blah blah, something respect for the process. User:PsychoGecko 16:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't want the TSA digging their grubby hands through my privilege. Carry-on privilege only. That's the way to travel. Ikanreed (talk) 15:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I wonder if being told to check their privilige has caused anyone actually to check their privilege or just caused them to tell you to go fuck yourself? AMassiveGay (talk) 20:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Suuuure, way to offend the asexuals now while we're at it. That was a joke. I'm not sure if you offended autosexuals, though, because they've got their heads up their own asses. Either way, looks like the best way to get a negative reaction around here is to either put Cracked in the Clogs or to do something that somehow sides with people that are memetically annoying on Tumblr. I don't think I could have gotten 70+ people to pay attention to a single clog if it had been Alex Schlafly caught on tape reenacting the Pulp Fiction Pawn Shop scene with Neil deGrasse Tyson. User:PsychoGecko 23:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Cracked is pretty good when it's good. But about that tape ... - David Gerard (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't have much to add to this discussion at the moment, and will probably do so in the future, but I would just like to point out that if the "Best of the Clogs" page set to a -999 point threshold is to be believed, this entry has now become tied for second place in having the most negative score ever, tied at -42 with Clog #2333 (Woman Rapes Man #firstworldproblems) and second only to Clog #2868 (Latest wisdom from Faux News: "Don't wash your chicken.") at -71. I believe congratulations are in order? Noir LeSable (talk) 17:00, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll make sure to put "Eye of the Tiger" on repeat, fellow Earthicans.User:PsychoGecko 18:54, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Coulter soccer column

Wait, aren't some of her reasons to hate soccer-- like not using hands -- an echo of something Schlafly wrote a few years back? Father Vivian O'Blivion (talk) 18:33, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Love it, by her attitude Luis Suarez is a hero as she seems to like the fact there are fights to liven things up. As for mocking it for not needing ambulances tell that to Fabrice Muamba, or an even sadder story, Marc Vivien Foe or even fucking worse, 50 or so people whose lives could have been saved with the proper medical treatment during the Hillsborough disaster. And as for it being a liberal sport, tell that to Southampton FC who look like loosing all their top players this summer, those damn liberal Manchester sides look like taking them all in an extreme example of laissez faire capitalism. She obviously does not have a clue. I will add to this. Her remarks about personal humiliation, David Beckham, who she mentions, had effigies of him burned, hatred spewed at him at every away ground and genuine concerns for his and his families safety after being sent off in the 1998 World Cup.--Mercian (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

If I have some great-grandparents that are foreign and some that aren't, how do I know whether I'm allowed to watch soccer? Frederick♠♣♥♦ 22:01, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Clearly you're not a pure-blooded American if one set of your great-grandparents were foreign, so it doesn't matter either way. Watch it or don't; you're an un-American foreigner regardless! - Grant (talk) 22:05, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Un-American foreigner-ness has never been so much fun. |₹Λ¥$€₦₦ Red rose 02.svg Stay by my side / Mabushii sekai wo misetai 22:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
By this point, it should be clear that Ann Coulter just says shit to offend people and get press. She's not worth engaging or even thinking about.--"Shut up, Brx." 22:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
I didn't think I would say this, brx, but Goodpost.gif Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 16:35, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with the theory that Ann Trollter is a meaner version of Stephen Colbert crossed with Andy Kaufman who never, EVER breaks character. --Gulik (talk) 00:46, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

[edit] The lesbian haunted house thing

I don't know… I think there is a bit of a problem with that, but mostly because it seems to be promoting homophobic stereotypes of lesbians ("lesbians are just man-haters!", et cetera). But then, I've only really read about on the Reddit thing, and MRAs have a tendency to exaggerate shit like that. Oh well. DØØM MĖSSIÅH …But spirit is foulest, devoid, askewDolan.png 11:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, they're probably just making fun if the stereotypes or something. Eh, whatever. Other people can sort this out. GØØBY PLS Clam down dere, matey!!1Dolan.png 11:35, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
It's currently stickied on the subreddit as an "action opportunity". I honestly think the haunted house itself is ridiculous, but the way that they framed it in the discussion, Solanas reference and all, is equally ridiculous, as is the fact that they would bother to create a petition against it in the first place --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 12:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Watergate

The Watergate controversy was wonderful for at least two reasons: 1) It put impeachment of a president on the table. 2) It led to “rapid desanctification of our national secret police.” It’s no accident that after Watergate, Congress passed multiple pieces of legislation attempting to rein in the CIA, the FBI and other organs of the American secret police. Most of that is all null and void now, however.

What part of that is "Watergate apologism"? --A Real Libertarian (talk) 23:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

"As Rothbard notes below, the watergate scandal was an excellent event precisely because it undermined faith in government." I guess not exactly apologism so much as boosterism. The original CNN article heavily leans in the direction of apologism, though. I will change the WIGO to be more accurate. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 01:27, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Replication and Failed Science

Especially in light of my last epic fail around here, I'm considering just getting rid of this one already. As a standalone piece, it seems to make some good points, and I'm less knowledgeable about how successful scientific replication seems to be in general. However, he doesn't propose any sort of way to determine whether a history of failed replications is due to a lot of psychologists not knowing what they're doing, or if the results were just fudged in the first place. Ironically, his cookbook analogy is a great example of that. Most of the time, the reason your food doesn't look like it does in a cookbook or a menu is because the people taking pictures do all sorts of things to make a dish look far better than it really is(fluffing the bun, using coloring, using paste instead of milk, etc.). Someone else want to weigh in, or do I get to attain Clog infamy again? User:PsychoGecko 19:00, 8 July 2014

I think a lot of what he's saying is an issue for social psych in particular where there's not always a great deal of methodological rigor. Studies are often performed using ill-defined terms and using measures that are not entirely validated. We have major studies with vastly contradictory results at times. And of course there are studies like Milgram that has been replicated ad nauseum and people still refuse to believe. In general I think replication of studies is a fantastic idea. It shows that it wasn't just that 5% chance. AyzmoCheers 20:00, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Esquire article on the Texas Republicans

Any particular reason this is in clogs? While it's indeed sensationalistic, poorly edited, and an Esquire article siphoning Google hits from a much better New Yorker article, it is not quite batshit enough for clogs in my opinion. While it's definitely not good enough for WIGOW, it should probably be moved to blogs or at least deleted and replaced with the original New Yorker article. (talk) 21:31, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Definitely move to Blogs. Different take on the same material, the hook quote is only in the Esquire version - David Gerard (talk) 11:07, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Hypocrisy?

I don't see the connection: How is being a Men's rights activist while being a sex tourism writer being hypocrisy? unless he writes about gay male prostitutes.... ThiehAhh! my eyes!! 02:43, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

He attacks gay men for being promiscuous, among other things. I'm fairly sure that sex tourism falls under most definitions of promiscuity. Compro01 (talk) 04:38, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
The fuck writes little more then "How to rape woman in 3rd world nations" books, and he has the fucking gaul to claim gays are a fucking health risk? That idiot's STDs are likely near self aware. --Revolverman (talk) 11:42, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] 5, 6, Pick up sticks...

I kind of have to ask: aside from the awkward and circular justification made (not the worst I've seen -- see: Dinah and Shechem), is there any particular reason why the page about the guy getting killed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath is in Clogosphere and not embedded somewhere in the Wiki? According to the page, it was drafted all the way back in June of 2010... was it featured somewhere that I'm not aware of? Noir LeSable (talk) 22:11, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

You're just asking what some (well, at least one) of the rest of us were thinking. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 22:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, my bad. I usually forget to check the dates. I always thought that the dates in the clogosphere signified when the article was *discovered* by someone at RationalWiki.TheriziπosaurusG (talk) 00:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Good find all the same. There ought to be somewhere on the wiki to use it. Thinking... Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 01:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Security reasons?

I was trying to read the read article explaining that the government is constitutionally required to fight homosexuality as it must for sure be very interesting. Unfortunately I couldn't access to it and instead got this message (I have only copied the 3 first lines): "Your access to this site has been limited - Your access to this service has been temporarily limited. Please try again in a few minutes. (HTTP response code 503) - Reason: Access from your area has been temporarily limited for security reasons". Last sentence is printed in red.

Now I am really wondering what kind of threats for Phyllis Schlafly's site Switzerland (which is the country from which I am surfing on net) might represent. (talk) 20:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Nah. The Schlaflys are just the ancestors of Zapp Branigan, who famously said in a quote from a few years ago in the year 3000: "What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?" --User:PsychoGecko 00:27 24 July 2014
Can't be too sure about cyber-threats from Switzerland. It's in the prophecies. Book of Zamboniah, chapter 7.3 mentions that the "dragon" -- could also be "basilisk" in the original High Elvish -- comes from a place where there are, among other things, "mountains." This could lead to the sorts of satan things like the Antichrist likes -- maybe one world financial system or universal health care. So, can't be too careful. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 03:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] WAPO Channels the Onion?

This has to be a joke. Who would have thought the Washington Post would channel The Onion? I mean, isn't it obvious that Michele Bachmann is Batshit crazy? Cosmikdebris (talk) 16:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

I understand the gist of their argument: if a woman becomes the Democratic frontrunner (right now likely) it may be electorally necessary for the GOP to get a woman somewhere on the ballot. But you're right in that a Bachmann VP pick would be just as damaging as Palin. Osaka Sun (talk) 17:01, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
It's not about the final ballot. Clinton or Warren would both probably be advised to act as though their gender is no big deal in the final sprint after selection. And that means they can't say "Ha, see the other side are a total sausage fest". But earlier, in the bigger field, it's noticeable, especially with the Democrats being able (largely by chance) to field more than one serious possibility. And so you don't need to explicitly draw attention to it. You just let the audience puzzle it out for themselves and come vote for you. Thus yeah, there must be pressure inside the GOP to get a woman into those first weeks of campaigning. If she does well, that's great for her, if she does badly it's valuable experience and no shame for trying so long as she knows when to take the hint and quit.
The argument against Bachmann is, of course, that's she's barking mad. But it's not as though the GOP has consistently prevented crazy people from taking part in this contest. That would be a new rule. If I was a GOP bureaucrat and had one chance to play a veto card against a candidate who was going to hurt the party so badly they'd be worse than just letting a democrat run un-opposed, Bachmann would not be my choice. Millions of Americans believe the crazy things Bachmann believes. An America that votes against Michelle Bachmann is not an America that has definitely lost its patience with the GOP and will never vote Republican again. Tialaramex (talk) 13:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] If you replace feminist with Illuminati

"Facebook is preventing me from logging into our Concerned Citizens Against the Illuminati page! I believe the Illuminati (let’s call them what they are) are behind this censorship. I am trying to regain access but it doesn’t look good. No response.

Maybe it’s time to start calling it “Illuminatibook”. This looks like censorship and it has the Illuminati's fingerprints all over it. I knew Illuminati were all for censorship but this takes it to an all new low. grrrr!" [1] --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 16:26, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Normally, I agree with the WAF crowd, but this is frankly incredibly embarrassing. Noir LeSable (talk) 01:30, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Eh... if you look at the notes, quite a few are taking this seriously. It's what happens if you indoctrinate yourself in a group full of antifeminist conspiracy theories --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 09:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Which makes it all the more cringeworthy! Aaagh. Ah well, could be worse, I suppose. Noir LeSable (talk) 17:09, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Adams

I think it might have something to do, partly, with smoking ads, no? Even with all the money spent on anti smoking ads and stuff people are still hooked. Maybe that actually works as positive advertisment o_O Thieh[Talk needed] 01:16, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

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