Talk:2017 French presidential elections

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Article written by a left wing crank[edit]

"They want to get rid of immigrants, get rid of European Union, get rid of gay marriage and adoption. Le Pen wants to ban veils on the street (which wouldn't cause more radicalization, of course not!)."

Just lies and smears, typical from the left. For example the FN's immigration policy is a balanced immigration policy, net immigration +/- 10,000 a year; it is absurd to say this is "get rid of immigrants". 86.14.2.77 (talk) 13:26, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I exagerate when I say get rid of migrants. But the rest is true.Diacelium (talk) 13:37, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

  • The FN don't want to "get rid of" the EU, but leave it.
  • The FN oppose gay marriage and adoption, but mention nothing about delegalizing it; for this reason Marine le Pen criticized the protests when gay marriage was made legal in 2013 (she also didn't attend them). Surveys show the FN is actually popular among LGBT.
  • The FN has a policy to ban all religious clothing in public, not just Islamic, but Jewish and Christian, even "large crosses" apparently.86.14.2.77 (talk) 15:15, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

If France leaves, the European Union is finished. It won't stand two major members going out. Le Pen wants to replace mariage with an amelioration of civil unions without marriage, and repeal gay adoption. Yes, the ban is for all religious symbols, but it's the same as the ban on religious symbol in schools : the target is the veil. Diacelium (talk) 17:35, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't see why France would even want to stay at this point. The Germans now dominate it and will continue to dominate it as France struggles internally.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 19:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't quote a random year-old article on immigration when you can refer to the actual FN website[1], which calls for an end to large-scale immigration and the departure of a certain proportion of those who are legally in France, using fairly decisive and unequivocal words like "L’arrêt" and "la lutte": this isn't a reduction, it's a halt. The figure of 10,000 net immigrants occurs in the context that 40,000 people arrive per year through marriage which they cannot stop, so somehow they have to get rid of 30,000 to make that target. Annquin (talk) 19:35, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

The FN website mentions the 10,000 net immigration figure. The FN don't want to stop immigration but reduce net immigration currently running (each year) from 200,000 to 10,000, similar to UKIP who want to reduce net immigration from 300,000 to the low ten's of thousands (Farage has recently said 30,000.) There's nothing extreme about this policy - its balanced immigration/emigration meaning roughly the same amount of people who leave each year are allowed to settle in the country, hence it will solve overcrowding and strain mass immigration has on public services. The FN have the most sensible immigration policy. Are you not aware most countries have balanced immigration? There's nothing "far right" about it.86.14.2.77 (talk) 09:58, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
I highly doubt that the person who supported Trump really wants a balanced immigration policy. They are just trying to sound reasonable, but there are other reasons to consider them far-right, and if you know Marine's father, you would understand that she probably isn't as reasonable as she tries to look. Diacelium (talk) 10:34, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Net immigration to the US is 800,000-900,000 a year; Trump has said virtually nothing about substantially lowering this (he only talks about stopping illegal immigration.) Legal net immigration at nearly a million a year will continue under Trump. As for the FN, they have a balanced immigration policy: they want net immigration to approach 0 (-/+ 10,000), so roughly for every person who leaves, a person is granted settlement to balance immigration with emigration. This is normal policy for most countries around the world (excluding the US who are a melting pot). 86.14.2.77 (talk) 11:29, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Polls[edit]

Someone changed the page an put Le Pen as the winner, but polls says the opposite. Polls aren't totally reliable, but they announce a massive victory, something like 30-40% for Le Pen and 60-70% for Fillon. French people would vote for anyone to avoid Le Pen, I think.Diacelium (talk) 18:44, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

I changed it. The polls have been off in two elections now, the 2015 UK election and the 2016 US election. The reason I believe Fillon will lose is because he is against gay rights which will limit him to hardline Catholics; I believe Marine Le Pen will sweep them up by openly and comfortably attacking Muslims more than Fillon or anyone else.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 19:00, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
well, she can make win by constantly attacking Fillon's classical liberal plan. Diacelium (talk) 19:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
No offense, but I assumed that would be a given since she is an actual fascist. But Fillon's supporters don't see his neoliberal ideas as problematic; on the contrary, that is probably why they support him. I think the bigger advantage to Le Pen is that every mainstream person is attacking Muslims and she is using LGBT and female identity politics against these immigrants. I think the polls are wrong because I believe a lot of people who are being polled are too afraid to openly admit to supporting Le Pen.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 19:27, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Predictions[edit]

I'm skeptical of your prediction that Le Pen will win. Je pense que c'est improbable. Although the voters will vote for her in massive numbers due to all the Muslim refugees and hatred of the establishment, I doubt it will put her in office. Trump actually lost by 2 percent. If us Americans had a popular vote system, Hillary would be President. The Green candidate won in Austria. I suspect moderation will win out here and Fillon will be elected. Mais je puis me tromper. PBfreespace (talk) 05:11, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

God, I hope you're right. Even a dick like Fillon is preferable to a nationalistic maniac like Le Pen. MyNameIsMudd (talk) 05:14, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
No offense, but Fillon is also a disgusting Islamaphobic nationalist. The only difference I see between him and Le Pen is that Le Pen is against austerity and doesn't hate LGBT people. The Green party in Austria is a Leftist party while Fillon is a conservative who supports the status quo. When it comes to the US, the Dems lost everything and I don't see how a popular vote system of 50%+1 is any more democratic; just look at how Scotland and Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU but lost out by about 2%.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 06:03, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Yeesh, I didn't know those were the only differences. What a shitshow. MyNameIsMudd (talk) 06:09, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
I fear that no a combination of arrogance and a feeling of comfort over right-wing populism over left-wing populism will lead to many of these neo-fascistic parties getting elected. I have already seen a lot of news coverage of Le Pen over Melenchon despite her party's low amount of political power. This amounts to free advertising which propelled Trump to victory while the black-out will injure Melenchon like it injured Sanders; I expected any gains Melenchon might make to be viciously attacked. My only hope is that these neo-fascists, if elected, will be too incompetent to get anything severely damaging done.--Owlman (talk) (mail) 07:16, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
I originally put Fillon as the winner, but Owlman had better arguments for Le Pen's win.Diacelium (talk) 17:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Owlman, how does Fillon hate more LGBT than Le Pen ? And how is he nationalist or islamophobic ? I don't think he really is worst than Le Pen on LGBT. Diacelium (talk) 17:34, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Macron will win and whoever edited the page to say he still won't is being a bit too edgy. Kodak (talk) 13:04, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Most of Macron's voters aren't sure of their choice, Macron represents the politics of the current president, he started the same bullshit than Hillary on Russia, he is for CETA which even Fillon thinks is bad for environment, Le Pen beats Macron on ecology, she beats him on austerity, she has the working class vote, etc... Macron has changes his mind too often to be considered as serious. He is supported by medias, by Gattaz (the president of a employer organization, who keeps pushing for very unpopular laws that break worker's rights), and everyone that represents what is considered as the "establishment" in France. He has shown that he disregards workers and unemployed people. Le Pen definitively has a big chance to win. She can get a part of the left-wing vote because of her economic platform, and the right-wing cares mostly about authority of the State and social conservatism, so a big part of the right-wing will vote for her. She also would be something "new" for France, while Macron is in line with the austerity and the breaking of the "Code du travail". And now that CETA passed the european parliament, it's going to be even easier for Le Pen to win. Diacelium (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Nope, Macron is only gaining ground, and a recent poll put him in first place for the first round.Kodak (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
See? All that worrying for nothing. Kodak (talk) 14:15, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

What if Fillon pulls out? Zionist Goy (talk) 22:58, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

"second turn"[edit]

This page uses "second turn" for what would more properly be called "runoff" or "second round" in English. Zionist Goy (talk) 23:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

What the hell happened to this article?[edit]

I was going to type something snarky in this gloom fest now that the results are rolling in, but it appears to have been more or less dead for months. Doesn't anyone clean up around here? Vulpius (talk) 19:22, 7 May 2017 (UTC)