Talk:Thom Hartmann

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This Pseudoscience related article has been awarded BRONZE status for quality. It's getting there, but could be better with improvement. See RationalWiki:Article rating for more information.


I decided that, since we have main articles about major conservative talkers, it would be a breath of fresh air to have some about the liberal ones, too.The Goonie 1 (talk) 01:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

ADD/ADHD and Woo.[edit]

Dude seems really invested in ADD/ADHD (real woo magnets...) and some of his book titles (The Prophet's Way, Greatest Spiritual Secret) sound like New-Age woo. Those two things combined set off some cautionary bells for me...TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Instead of just linking to a WP article about his ADD stuff, can you summarize for us? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I will eventually. Most of his work involving ADD/ADHD is, however, actually based on actual therapudic techniques. His hypothesis is, however, not proven.The Goonie 1 (talk) 03:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: CRANK--Thanks, Listener...TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:33, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

No, he is not a crank. In fact, he doesn't even claim that his hypothesis is scientific, but is more a philosophic perspective, according to his book "Cracking The Code." Basically, the hypothesis is that ADD/ADHD may actually be an adaptive behavior leftover from from when humans were hunter/gatherers. As we moved from a hunter society to a farmer society, these traits were no longer needed. But he has repeatedly stated on his show and in his books, that he does NOT promote it as anything scientifically proven. In fact, according to his website, this study is the only scientific research done into his hypothesis. That's a bit more than most cranks would allow, I'd say.The Goonie 1 (talk) 03:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me. Anyone who claims possession of the Greatest Spiritual Secret of the Century, especially if mentioning it in the same paragraph as science, is a crank. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 03:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
EC That sounds as cranky as Gaia, or CUR's nonsense about therianism being the result of people having animal traits in their brains. Or therianism existing at all. Cranky McCrankerson. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Thom is anything but a crank. Other than mentioning Gaia - as a hypothesis every few weeks, he is totally sane and a cool guy. I listen to him 15 hours a week, unless afternoon errands interfere... ħumanUser talk:Human 03:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not defending the Greatest Spiritual Gift book (I haven't even read it myself, so I cannot make a judgement n that). I'm defending his ADD/ADHD stuff, because alot of it, which I (as an ADD person) have read is actually sound advice and help for ADD/ADHD people which most behavioral therapists I have seen would agree with.The Goonie 1 (talk) 03:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Research before whining[edit]

Go to or something like it, tell them your zip code is 55440, and listen from 3-6 PM EST for an hour. ħumanUser talk:Human 03:51, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Where does the Mills District come into this? Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 03:54, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Huw. I just googled that Greatest Spiritual Secrets book, and it's philosophy about his spirituality (as he IS a Christian of some sort), and the title is just that, not a summary.The Goonie 1 (talk) 03:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The Prophet's Way posits that instead of being hallucinations, the phenomena observed during a near-death experience are actually a glimpse into the afterlife; also that instead of subatomic particles, the entire universe is fashioned out of love. [1] Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:03, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

And, according to everything I've read, his Greatest Spiritual Secret book is a fictional storybook. It's a storybook written in the spirit (and thus its title) of the books The Greatest Story Ever Told and The Greatest Salesman in the World. They don't actually mean that he is telling it in the book. It's a metaphor. And I used Theory of Practice's link to find that out!!!The Goonie 1 (talk) 04:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess you've never been to my website ;) It's possible to separate various aspects of one's thoughts to separate spheres. For instance, Screwed is about the only book he "promotes" on his radio show. OK, and his new one, which, again, is about politics. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To those busy snarking based on 3 minutes of familiarity with the topic of this article (a talk radio host), come back tomorrow after you have at least listened to some of his show. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

A crank is no less a crank because he is able to host an excellent radio show. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The question is, is he really a crank? Is that all he is? Like I said, I listen to this guy 15 hours a week - that's 3 hours every afternoon - and he's not a crank. When he brings up Gaia, it's very offhand, and he makes it clear that he doesn't think it's "science", just an interesting idea. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The remarks in The Prophet's Way qualify him as a crank to my mind, or at least a woo-meister. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't believe I'm wholly with Listener on something. More importantly, I can't believe how hard you two are working to defend your little media hero when there's no way you would let this kind of pseudoscientific bullshit slide if anybody else was embracing it--well, Goonie less so, after all, he believes in that fucking Gaia nonsense. And when did this article become a lulz-free zone, anyway. "Pulled it out of his ass" is a lot better than what we could say. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe in Gaia hypothesis anymore. Maybe back in the day (when I was young here), but not anymore (except, maybe as personal philosophy, but not as a science, to be sure).The Goonie 1 (talk) 22:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It's because his goddamn show has nothing to do with this crap. He doesn't promote it, he never mentions it. These are books he wrote years ago. That's why the "controversial positions" section exists - he has another side, perhaps in his past, perhaps something he still promotes - please read the section header and listen to his show at least once. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:33, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The article is about him, not just his show--or would it be easier to just talk about the stuff that fits and leave out the awkward bits? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
He is also of the opinion that if one is not environmentally sound, one is evacuating oneself all over "G-d," so his seamy spiritual side definitely spills over into his politics. Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that, perhaps, we should just make this article about his show and rename it to reflect such. And For the billion-fuckth time, I don't buy Gaia hypothesis, I just worked fucking harder than I should have on that article. And what's lulz-free mean, anyway? I've never heard that term before.The Goonie 1 (talk) 04:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Can anyone say "whitewash"? Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Still, what the fuck does lulz-free mean? I demand an answer!!!The Goonie 1 (talk) 04:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Lulz-free man no jokes, no snark, etc. But the funniest thing hasn't even been mentioned yet - since Thom is travelling today, his show was guest-hosted so my "invitation" above to folks to give him a listen is epic phail. Also, of course, on stations that run him "live" he's on at 12-3 PM EST, not 3-6. KTNF runs Big Red Ed "live" and bumps TH into the next slot. ħumanUser talk:Human 22:28, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To whoever italicised the book titles[edit]

Thanks! I was too lazy to do it when I added them to LTR. ħumanUser talk:Human 04:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Pet peeve of mine. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Odd; I seem to recall italicizing them myself at one point... Mjollnir.svgListenerXTalkerX 04:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Me. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Can we add the years of publication to the book list sometime? And maybe even categorize them (politics, ADD, woo, etc?) ħumanUser talk:Human 05:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Evidence of positive selection acting at the human dopamine receptor D4 gene locus[edit]

Has anyone bothered to read the paper? It occurs in the opposite direction to what he proposes. DRD4 R7 predisposes someone to ADHD/ADD. This mutation came about 30,000-50,000 years ago. Hartmann suggest that ADHD was normal for hunting, but this gene appeared before the start of agriculture. - π 04:38, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Which, if I read it correctly, confirms his hypothesis that ADD/ADHD is a leftover trait from the hunter/gatherer era of man before agriculture.The Goonie 1 (talk) 04:44, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes he proposed that ADHD/ADD was useful for hunting. The study indicates it is useful for farming, the opposite of his proposal.

For the DRD4 locus, it is unlikely that selection for an adjacent gene can account for the proposed selection, given the distinct and unusual DNA sequence of the DRD4 7R allele itself. If the DRD4 7R allele originated ~40,000 years ago, one might ask what was occurring at that time in human history? It is tempting to speculate that the major expansion of humans that occurred at that time, the appearance of radical new technology (the upper Paleolithic) and/or the development of agriculture (24), could be related to the increase in DRD4 7R allele frequency. Perhaps individuals with personality traits such as novelty seeking, perseverance, etc. drove the expansion (and partial replacement). The speculation that migration could account for the current 7R allele distribution has been proposed (34). In addition to such phenotypic selection, sexual selection could be operating as well. As defined originally by Darwin (36), ‘‘any advantage which certain individuals have over others of the same sex and species solely in respect of reproduction’’ will lead to increased offspring. If individuals with a DRD4 7R allele have personality/cognitive traits that give them an advantage (multiple sexual partners, higher probability for mate selection, etc.) then the frequency of this allele will expand rapidly depending on the cultural milieu

- π 04:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Now I know (and knowing is half the battle).The Goonie 1 (talk) 04:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Crapping all over God reference[edit]

Thanks. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

A good example of his show[edit]

For those questioning how credible he is, a typical radio show of his is like the example I have provided here.The Goonie 1 (talk) 07:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)